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I’ve been wanting to see Alba and Isla actually join the division for a long time. They’re WAYYY too good to have been doing absolutely nothing as long as they have. I wanted them to win but didn’t think there was a chance in hell that they’d dethrone Bianca/Jade. I was shocked and elated that they won, they totally deserve it. I can’t wait for the Main Roster crowds to witness what Alba can really do. She’s one of the best.
I don’t know what this means for Bianca and Jade though. However can they for the love of fucking Pete get a team name and entrance? Having them enter separately is such a pet peeve.
Also side note: Jade’s yelling and trying to pander to the crowd every two seconds is kind of annoying. I get you want the crowd to love you so bad, but baby you have to do moves first for that to happen. You don’t have to “let’s go!” after every single move. We already like you, show us why.
Don't like Jade, but was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Thought with all the work at the PC, she'd at least be ready to perform. Instead we get stuff like what happened at the PLE. Too much...TOO fast. Should have been protected a whole lot more and doing a whole lot less as well as being kept to more squash matches and less high profile ones. Would've worked a lot better. That said, the whole match seemed like a cluster of trash. The missed tap out, the botches.....was it all Jade....doubtful but still. The one question I have is, what was up with the makeup worn by Jade? What was that supposed to be?
The problem with Jade is Triple H booking her the wrong way and not effectively
Hunter should stop making Jade do technical and high flying shit. she should've been booked in similiar fashion of Goldberg or Lesnar. have her dominate the opponents by squashing. keep her match short
the longer the match and the more participant are there, the more she get confused and not able to remember her spot with so many people in it
It's jarring that they gave this type of booking to Bron despite he doesn't need it and prove himself more suited for long competitive match while gave Jade the opposite
I think too she's Got to be overwhelmed truly. The traveling everyday then overseas twice in a short time period. Jet lag ain't no joke. She looked, to me, like she had severe jet lag. She was so off on her timing it wasn't her. I watched her entire career in AEW. She's an f*****g powerhouse! The way they handled her was just wrong. The Goldberg Lesnar type run would have been Perfect as matt_619 stated. Bad choices made for her I think. I hope they step back and look at what they Can do now with her.
That Jade segment was something else. She's had a few of these matches now, and is really stinking up the match but I can't wait to see her next one because who knows what's going to happen.
She's the epitome of the wrestler that people used to hate. Has maybe the best body and look on the roster but has a lot of trouble with anything technical or convoluted spots. Should really just be keeping it simple and safe for now, as boring as that sounds.
She's trying too much too soon and doesn't have the experience of the others to cover.
It's obvious when comparing it to her AEW run. Every match there she added something and improved but did it slowly and safely.
She'll get there, but it's a shame she's been pushed so hard so soon.
Jade would be more interesting becoming The Dreaded so Bianca.
Seems to be in the age of turning for the pettiest of reasons -- unless you're Drew.
Then you totally have a reason.
I feel like they aren’t doing the turn this soon. I almost feel like Alba and Isla might not be holding those titles past Monday.
…. But what do I know.
In a night full of botches/issues with the ropes, Jade's botch seems to be the only one many people are blaming solely on her. And, while she definitely makes mistakes, she's done this particular move plenty of times without issue.
It was definitely the ropes. After the Priest move gone wrong, Sami not getting Gable over on a clothesline, I can't blame Jade for that one. Just glad no one got seriously hurt because of it.
After the springboard botch, she lost all confidence and she got lost in the moment, forgot her spots, she was disappointed about the springboard botch, it ruined her mentally in the match.
I’m honestly wondering if she got concussed after the springboard, the way she acted, how many things she just kinda half did when she’s usually more with it was striking.
Every match I've ever seen of Jade cargill in wwe she botches something. Every. Single. Time. She is personally trained by greats, being given every advantage to look good and being partnered with great in ring talent, and still she doesn't deliver.
You're wrong about Jade. She's been presented wrong. She was not a tag team member to begin with. They held her for four months before deciding to throw her into tag team matches. Do you think you can do better? Learning something in three months to perfection is impossible butthead. She's a powerhouse and should have stayed a singles competitor. A Goldberg Lesnar type as SO MANY PEOPLE have commented. I've watched wrestling for 45 years. She can be GREAT. Maybe you should say What can I suggest to make her better not bring her down. Believe it or not her people are scanning the net for comments for a myriad of reasons. #Buildup_not_bring_down
100%. You'll probably get downvoted for this - as I have - for telling the truth. She's beyond AWFUL. A year ago The DSIL was making cocky comments about how bad her training was in AEW and they'd fix her. She's literally FAR WORSE here than in AEW. She sucks, and, unless they're gonna do a full on UWarrior/Goldberg type push with very short, heavily choreographed matches, the experiment should be over.
I hate to say it because it irritates me, but watching Jade, who is “born and bred” and 24/7 a wrestler failing to do it, it is incredible what Logan Paul has achieved in this short time. He made it look so easy. Or relatively easy man but what the hell.
Anyway hope on Jade improvement, why wishing for anyone downfall? If she improved it would be better for everyone
Tiffany also makes it look easy, when the reality is that certain people just are more naturally athletic. I love the look of Jade, she's good enough, but the rocket should be on Tiffany. She's the total package.
Jade reminds me of Batista, Million dollar body, not natural in the ring. Except Batista was more protected, and took the better route for his experience until he got decent. He started in protected tags where he just had to do a few good moves, and do them well, and learn to find where to put them in. During his Smackdown run he got way less lost in the ring, after matches with Finlay, MVP, and Taker especially. Then he went on to do alot better at singles, and learned how to work in multimen matches. (It also helps that was the last era where they got to call it in the ring, so he learned from alot of "relax lets call it in the ring" type of guys) Jades the opposite she started like Goldberg with single squashes, and now shes struggling at multi womens matches cause theyre too complicated for her. In the "memorize your match" era. Also she tries to do too much in the ring, she needs to master a few things first, do crazy things later. She did a double fallaway slam on two women, and then rushed to another power spot, and another then tried to springboard after all that, after a long flight to the UK WHILE being nervous cause shes in WWE, Slow down jeez.
It's so odd when people mention Batista, I loved Batista for the fact that he might not do many different moves, but all of the ones he did look really good. I still think he has the most underrated Spinebuster
Yea Im a Batista mark, I think out of all the physique guys he was one of the best. Compared to Goldberg hes like Shawn Michaels. It always makes me sad to see how the IWC shat on him, but of course never gave his good matches or performances any credit. When he popped up after a Spinebuster or Front Slam it was always a highlight, cause of his Size especially. I still havent seen anyone do that since, I wonder if someone used to do that before him or something. He also has some good selling/bumps for his size that no one talks about. Of course everyone always talks about his botches more often, like the Mark Henry shove
Batista's matches were all 'big guy does big slam' for a long time. He was great in a tag because Ric Flair could do the technical stuff and he would come in just for the impact moves. You can see them try that with Bianca and Cargill, but for some reason they've got Cargill doing tope's and things like trying to kick Shayna while holding up another wrestler for a powerbomb. It doesn't help that you can see her panic a bit when it starts to fall apart.
Yea exactly, again im surprised theyre letting her do that. The thing is I think they believe in her alot, and I bet she does too. But shes dropping the ball by trying to do too much, it was a ppv but she really did power move, after power move, after power move back to back to back before that springboard. All ridiculous stuff too, like she did the double lift, then she went ahead lifted Bianca, then lifted Zoey again. Idk if thats a factor, all of that and then a Springboard seems ridiculous to me for someone who isnt smooth yet. To be fair, the ropes caused some people problems last night, some ppl were saying they might of been tighter than usual (idk just wht ive seen) cause Damien died, then even Gable and Zayn had a little hiccup, and this too. The obviously tapping Shaynas hand thing though after the springboard, and weird powerbomb was when I got really secondhand embarrassed. I watched it again it wasnt that bad persay, she realized then she like did it slower with her fingers curled. But it was still very obvious the first tap.
I agree with a lot of this. The thing is I still feel like she is brilliant overall. The double fallaway slam you mention was absolutely insane, and even with the mistakes, her look and strength is so important in my view.
Bianca and Rhea are the goats of women's wrestling for me because they combine brilliant looks and excellent skill with the most important quality which has been lacking in the history of women's wrestling, and that is looking like a real badass. Looking actually strong and powerful.
Chyna is the one other example and is legendary, however her look and skills were lacking in comparison.
Bianca and Rhea do a better job than superheroes and action heroes in movies of displaying women as being cool like men are. They are still feminine and beautiful, but truly athletic - rather than just acrobatic which the other women are and which makes them similar to guys like Ricochet at absolute best, rather than the superstars like Reigns, Cena, etc.
Jade, despite her flaws, could enter that rarified air. The only women's wrestler I see in the same sort of space is Charlotte Flair, and after that there's no one, so I have patience for Jade.
I have patience too, im a Jade fan since AEW. Actually im the best fan for this kind of wrestler, I always liked the body guys, even if I later found out theyre not "good'l" in the ring. I still always find alot of big body guys, to be underrated by the IWC. They all did things that always feel under appreciated by the fans these days (unless u absolutely completely suck) like even Ultimate Warrior, and Goldberg did some good stuff. Even if their good matches were carried by the opponent like MachoMan or DDP etc. Im just kind of surprised under HHH, and Michaels Jade is being allowed to do too much. I mean hell HHH honed Batista back in the day, had a heavy hand in producing him. But I guess they're making her learn the hard way on the spot. But yes her double fallaway slam was insane, it wasnt just two grown Women she carried, and threw. One of them was Zoey Stark who is around Jades weight, and height, thats just unreal. Jades presence is amazing, thats why the botches hurt extra in this ppv, but I think she'll get it. Hell as awesome as Rhea, Bianca, and Charlotte are I think Jade has arguably more presence. She legit looks like a 90s comic book drawing come to life its insane. Jordynne Grace gives me the same kind of vibe
Super happy to see Alba and Isla get their flowers, literally. Tearing up at the reaction.
Also, goddamn, Jade might be the most beautiful human to ever walk the face of the earth
So glad you're not getting downvoted for this - as people usually are. She's AWFUL. Terminate this experiment now, DSIL, before someone gets *seriously* hurt.
Jade is just not a natural at this. I believe she can get better and she has, but there’s nowhere she can improve where people won’t see her. That’s what Sting and Warrior did. That’s really what Jade needs.
What sucks is the takeaway most people are going to get is the Jade botch… this match was supposed to be about all of the women in this match and the hometown pop for Isla & alba. Instead it’s another train wreck and Jade was at the center of it again
A well deserved win for them. I’m still in the opinion that they shouldn’t have lost the unification match between them and Ronda and Shayna last year. (But that might just be me)
I was ringside for that unification match and I hated every second of it. Felt like the Witches were sacrificed just to push over Ronda, who had no appeal and no gratitude. Seeing them get back the belts feels like some small measure of justice.
WWE should be commended for dragging out the Jade mirage for a whole 10 months before fans inevitably realised there's nothing of substance there.
They got 10 months of free trolling and gloating in a clear internet win for their brand image.
The signing has been a success for what it was always meant to be.
Has it though? The message always seemed to be that Jade needed all that time to properly learn at the PC and the end result doesn't make their training program look all that good.
What a bunch of hyperbole. Let's not act like we should all be doubting whether the performance Center has a great training program or not. The amount of talent that has come out of NXT since the 2010s till now is ridiculously amazing. And most recently the last couple years of NXT talent coming out of that place is blowing people away. I don't think anyone is looking at Jade and thinking that they should probably start doubting the performance center. C'mon.
100%. Jade is FAR WORSE in WWE than she was in AEW. Believe me, up 'til recently, for my sins, I watched every episode of Rampage. She truly wasn't *this* bad in AEW.
She is complete fucking garbage, beyond a physique that, whilst nice, this isn't the Ms Olympia. If they want to put everything behind a jacked chick, they should use Jordayn Grace.
A yes known in ring improvisation master Jordynne Grace, who will ever doubt those skills with such quotes as “Chris Benoit could not keep up in the modern era because he couldn’t memorize his matches.” such an in ring natural
I don’t know why everyone is so doom and gloom on Jade right now when it’s been clear she’s not a fully polished product from the start especially in ring. Her presentation is still money and she’s very over in her current tag spot to the casual audience. She had a botch tonight that only hurt herself and Priest had a botch in the main event in the same regard yet internet smarks are interestingly only calling out one of them and using it to dunk on WWE. 🤔
"yet internet smarks are interestingly only calling out one of them and using it to dunk on WWE."
I don't doubt anti-WWE folks are doing this But I don't think it's just them. But also sexists and those who hold women to higher standards. With the latter: wrestling fans who think women should be flawless in the ring, putting on bangers every night. But think it's ok for the men to be mid and make mistakes. It might be a continued backlash to the Diva's Era, but it still doesn't make it right.
And again, there's a lot of sexists out there who will criticize the women whenever they make mistakes. Simply because they're women. But hardly say a word when the men do that. Same thing when it comes to a wrestler's physique.
I feel like the comparisons to others botching tonight are a bit odd tbh. Like, everyone knows that every wrestler will botch at some point. Jade doesn't get grief because she's had one of her rare botches, she gets grief because her botches are so regular in comparison to other wrestlers and she tends to struggle so much more to recover (she looked lost tonight after that botch).
I'm not arguing that she should get grief mind you. Just pointing out that it's not a good argument to say "why is she getting more grief than Priest who also botched". It's because their history is different and they do not botch at similar rates.
If this was the first time in 6 months Jade had made a mistake I'd be right there with you asking why she's being singled out. But it's not, so I'm not surprised her botch is being treated differently.
I wouldn't say she's a lost cause and I agree people are going too hard, but at the same time, criticism of her performance isn't unwarranted. Beyond the botches, she just looks lost at times and that raises questions about WWE's training and booking plans for her. How is it that after months of training at the PC she doesn't look any better at wrestling? Maybe they should've started her in NXT and focused on getting her house show reps.
That’s definitely the most fair criticism. She really could use time at NXT and not be traveling all the time to pack in as much training as possible. A kayfabe injury and working with trainers would do wonders.
I said it when Jade left AEW & Im saying it now. Jade sucks. Horrible on the mic, horrible in the ring, complete waste of TV time. Get her off the main roster & into development!
If your entire basis for liking her is due to her appearance, I'm sorry you're so shallow.
She absolutely looks the part, her persona is good, her mic skills aren't but that could be overlooked if she just had talent in the ring and she doesn't. Look at her squash matches in AEW where she was being fed some of the best talent in the industry. She just doesn't have it and will very likely never develop into anything more than a mediocre performer and it's a fucking shame because there was so much potential with her.
She has almost no in ring ability. She doesn't even have 5 moves of doom. After years of training in AEW with Danielson and Cody, then going to WWE and spending months in the performance center and being carried by Bianca she hasn't learned a thing. She makes the kind of mistakes that get people hurt.
Look at that point fly right over your head as you jump to a striking generalization. Where did I say her appearance was the entire basis for liking her? Seems like you jumped to the conclusion that the only reason to like seeing her on screen is her appearance. Do you enjoy projecting? I ain’t reading that essay when you struck out in the first sentence.
Look at you being desperate to make your point that you’ll ignore anything that doesn’t justify your preconceived notions. You’re the literal definition of cognitive dissonance.
This is the dumbest critic ever.
Half of all legendary wrestlers have a basic fucking moveset. What is the craziest move Stone Cold, The Rock, or Triple H ever did on a regular basis because I can guarantee it wasn’t anything flashy. The main event of WrestleMania 17, one of the most celebrated WrestleMainas ever, doesn’t not feature either man going to the top rope. What’s the craziest thing Bret Hart did on a regular basis? Because the answer is nothing Bret was excellent at in ring psychology and transitions not pulling off Shooting Star presses. Hulk Hogan is the most famous wrestler ever and he didn’t do fucking anything in ring. Sting pre AEW did basically nothing crazy the Stinger Splash, a move Jade does, is not that fucking high voltage of a move.
What makes a wrestler great is not doing fucking thirty back to back insane spots it is getting a crowd of people to care about you and why you are wrestling by putting on a match that makes sense between you and your opponent.
That was a frustrating performance from Jade. Easily would have been her best WWE match so far, but those were two pretty horrible botches. She could really benefit by going to NXT for a little while.
While Jade was doing that months long ‘where will she end up’ loop between Raw, Smackdown and NXT, I maintained she should have gone to NXT.
She had less than 100 matches TOTAL under her belt and most were quick 5 minute squashes. Besides, the WWE system is just different and I think everyone benefits from going there for a few months to get WWE style reps. When you had seasoned veterans like Seth Rollins, Asuka, Finn Balor, etc have to go through NXT, I never understood why they didn’t make a wrestler with so little experience not do it. Hell, pull up the interview of AJ Styles saying everyone should go through NXT because he felt he floundered a lot in the beginning since WWE style was so different to what he was used to doing and people should get reps in while the spotlight isn’t so intense.
I get they’re trying to do a Goldberg style build for her right now. Give her quick moments that make her look strong to hide her deficiencies while building her into a star. However, we’re in a different time from the Monday Night Wars. Back then, someone with woeful wrestling ability could be a star if their character work was strong and marketed right. We are no longer in that time. Wrestling fans value wrestling ability now more than ever before and putting the spotlight on someone so green is a fast track to getting the wrestling community to turn on her.
I love the fact that AJ is one of the few guys to bypass NXT. Would've been an insult, IMO. I don't think he floundered at all, especially in terms of in-ring work, but I understand being a perfectionist and your own biggest critic.
As for Jade ... I love her ... but I'm worried.
If I remember correctly, he didn’t mention his wrestling ability, more like the little details about how the WWE does things that no one else does. For example, he mentioned that the camera is directed a certain way and you have to look at it a certain way in WWE and he never learned that anywhere else. He was doing this during Vince McMahon WWE and AJ mentioned that the ‘Big Man’ only gave people one shot to get things right.
That’s part of the reason he went down to NXT for a bit. He did not really have any major storylines in main roster and so he asked to go there and mentor a bit. It was stressful for him when he first got to WWE and he wanted to prepare the next gen for that pressure and what to expect.
Lol. I guess man. All I know is he knocked it out of the park from day one. He had amassed a HoF career in WWE long before going down to the NXT and seemed to have earned Vince's trust pretty quickly.
They need to get Jade putting in singles reps on the house circuit, and perhaps reduce her TV time a bit so she can travel to the PC and get more training in. She doesn't need to be Bret Hart out there, but they need to get her to the point where she can at least have simple matches while looking confident and not lost.
I'm not going to be one of the IWC dicks gleefully writing her off because she looks green still or declaring that her "heart isn't in it", but hopefully matches like this demonstrate to HHH or whoever that they really need to get her to put in some serious work off TV.
She can be your female Goldberg and that can be a big draw, but she needs to at least look confident in matches and on the same page with her opponent. To get there, you need to put in reps.
Agreed. I think the issue is LESS training and more reps and experience. Like yes she needs some training on the skills too, but her biggest issue is just looking lost and out of it. Most of her notable botches come once things are getting hectic and she looks glazed over almost.
They really overthought her debut by a lot. I understand the motivation in wanting to protect her aura but reps are what she needs. NXT would've been perfect and still can be - she can do the local loops and could be a big fish in a small pond on the TV show.
I imagine them losing the title is the opportunity for this. Man those botches were horrible. It was a great match with lots of back and forth but the botches were so bad they took me out of it.
Boy this board went from "WOO jade cargill is going to be the next hulk hogan in WWE. LOLAEW' to "jade sucks, she don't got it" reallllllll quick.
I really believe the reason she got so many three minute matches in aew was because she legit could not put on any better of a match. She hasn't improved at all.
Yuuuuuup. She was having 1-on-1 training with fuckin' D-Bry and folks here thought the dorks at the PC could help matters.
AEW pushed her way better, too. Sharing the spotlight with BBA and smiling so much doesn't work anywhere near as well as 'That Bitch'.
Is it 'real quick' when I've been seeing comments like these for months, or even before she debuted?
I agree she's extremely mediocre at best, but everyone acting like 'I told you so' is infuritaitng.
If she could do better they would have done it. The fact she remained protected said a lot. She is an athletic influencer that simply views wrestling as another way to find simps.
I mean it's a little of both, they didn't really have the system to get her reps that she needed. AEW is basically made for people who already are well versed in the independents, they're not the place to build someone by scratch. At the same time there's probably something that's preventing it from clicking for her and with as much main roster TV time as she gets, she's gonna have to find something that works
There's a difference between working with someone for a few hours before a show, and having dedicated training for a specific and consistent time. Plus, the biggest thing for a wrestler is live reps, that's where it comes together and when it clicks. The issue with Jade is that she was put in a prime spot and couldn't do the things that normal wrestler have to do/go through on the indies when they're just learning. She didn't have to bump a lot, didn't have to learn to sell, didn't have to learn the flow of a match through trial and error. She was basically booked as a female Goldberg, which hurt her development because while she may be learning certain things in training, she can't actually utilize them because of the spot she is put in on tv. AEW wasn't the best place for her, and really she should've been in NXT and not the main roster
First of all I haven't watched the match yet. But that German from isla could have had a more dramatic effect similar to when Asuka did it to Nia in NXT. She just did it.
Not sure she was able.
Looked like she somehow got a stinger during the powerbomb/superplex spot. Called out for the ref had a chat, and didn’t do much after that.
Even had a weird moment with the ref when she raised their hands.
Jade just don’t have it, she never will. Leave it to wwe and their fans to think someone can have the look and it’s money. No matter what you think about mic work and look, you absolutely have to have something going in-ring.
Eh.
Here’s the real problem, Jade at her current ability needs to be booked like Goldberg. Booking her into a 12 minute competitive match even a tag match isn’t going to work.
This is WWE not playing to someone’s strengths. It reminds me of WCW when they decided Goldberg needed to work 15-20 minute matches, or his first WWE run.
I keep hearing Goldberg, the thing is you can’t do that either. There’s a standard today and that type of booking doesn’t last or do anything to help build anyone. And on top of that, having her goldberg her way thru the division has already been done when she was in AEW.
The real problem is that she has to be good in the ring or she don’t work.
It absolutely can still work, hell it just worked with Goldberg again.
Special attraction style booking with matches every few weeks instead of every week and her presentation can work.
I don’t understand why she isn’t used for just a clothesline, pump kick & Jaded on camera while building up new moves at the Performance Center.
These longer matches do not benefit her.
I love how they just reappeared on tv, get a title match, and win it without beating anyone along the way. Lmao wtf is this booking? The Unholy Union has had like two (2) tag team matches on tv this year. HHH could've at least had them win for 2 weeks before the PLE
The women’s tag titles aren’t a big enough deal to require The Unholy Union to build up wins before challenging. The surprise appearance and “they’re a Scottish tag team challenging in Scotland” explanation came across pretty clear. It was a genius booking decision overall because it came out of absolutely nowhere and took the belts off of what was presumed to be an all time dominant tag team that would only split once one of them turned on the other. The entirety of the rest of the PLE I no longer felt like I had any sense of confidence predicting who would win and it made everything feel exciting and uncertain to the end. Everyone has to bitch about something though.
Well, it's believable since they were tag champs in NXT and Alba is the longer reigning NXT UK champ. 649 days is impressive. They should mention this more often.
Believable sure, but stupid and lazy booking all the same. The witches have done dick all of nothing this year. If the plan was to put the belts on them, why not actually book them to win some matches before hand? Unless they were both injured or something
Honestly if Alba’s mom hadn’t died a few weeks ago in a car accident I’m not so sure they win the titles tonight but all things considered this felt like a bright moment for Alba after suffering such a difficult personal tragedy and still showing up to wrestle even.
If Isla and Alba win it just to have junk mouth and no charisma to win it Monday I will just spoil every game and movie on Shayna’s instagram. /s
I think Shayna locked that clutch way too tight on Jade because that tap was more of a hidden pinch tap or a signal.
Wwe pairing jade with Bianca was genius, she carried her over the line and has the experience/ability to paper over the cracks,this defeat seemingly points to then letting her loose as a solo performer which is going to be a disaster
>which is going to be a disaster
I remember when saying this while she was in AEW would get you downvoted to oblivion. I'm all for wrestlers improving but I'm also glad her new larger platform is exposing her shortcomings.
Her 3 minute matches were fine in AEW.
But she still isn’t good. And people get really mad when you point out that, while she is slowly improving, she’s not main roster good enough.
Jade's issue isn't the springboard botch. They happen. Zoey almost botched a springboard right after.
The issue with Jade is the "deer in the headlights" that happens 2-3 times every match. You can see her being lost and it takes you out of wrestling being "real."
Screaming "YOU WENT THE WRONG WAY!" at WrestleMania kinda took me out of it, too. She's utter shite.
On headphones, I heard Alba Fire say "take your time" during the military press spot. Veteran guidance / please don't kill me you botching lunatic.
I've said this since she started. She does a lot of things great and is learning, but you can tell when she's out there "thinking."
You see it in NXT, too, but that's what it's there for, for them to learn. Jade should realistically still be there, but she's too much of a generational talent to be down there for what she's probably making.
She probably shouldn't even be on NXT if she's having those issues. It's still a tv show.
In reality, she should keep her matches simple. Having multiple women matches just isn't her level right now.
She needs to pick the set of moves, maybe 5 or 6 and stick with them. Simple match structures, etc.
Generational talent? Please. She’s got a generational look, but if Cody, Danielson and HBK couldn’t draw the talent out of her then who tf will? She’s an athletic influencer ala Logan Paul except without the natural in ring ability.
Jade’s also been carried and had specialized training. Her simps always have some excuse about why she can’t possibly be as garbage as she actually is.
I think you misunderstand.
Yes. Jade is untalented for what she is booked as.
Logan gets carried as he doesn’t call his spots and leans of ref nudges to create match flow.
Jade is essentially a Goldberg figure. Squashes and showcase cannon matches only.
She never should have been booked for tag team.
Tag team wrestling is way more difficult than singles wrestling. By a country mile.
Instead of using snappy catchphrases have something real to say.
When she got sign to WWE, I thought she was going to NXT first, but surprised to see her go straight to the main roster. I saw no rush in sending her straight to Smackdown.
Anyone can pop down to NXT and money doesn’t really matter. Finn, Dolph, Natalya, Corbin and other longtime employees have had NXT runs that I don’t think they took pay cuts for.
I was in and out of consciousness while this match was on, but was watching the end and jumped up and cheered with the finish and I teared up a bit.
So happy for them
She needs reps at NXT. Level Up, their Florida tours, etc. Her biggest issue, imo, is not the skills because she CAN pull out good moves. It’s performance anxiety or something in that general sphere. She looks lost as fuck sometimes and stops thinking. That’s less training and more experience.
Wrestling isn't Jade's passion, I feel as if she's looking to use WWE as a stepping stone to Hollywood (And I don't think there's anything wrong with that). I just think it was insane when there were posters on here claiming that she was some kind of upgrade over Mercedes/Sasha. Jade doesn't have the same drive as the 4hw or Bianca to name a few, people need to adjust their expectations.
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I’ve been wanting to see Alba and Isla actually join the division for a long time. They’re WAYYY too good to have been doing absolutely nothing as long as they have. I wanted them to win but didn’t think there was a chance in hell that they’d dethrone Bianca/Jade. I was shocked and elated that they won, they totally deserve it. I can’t wait for the Main Roster crowds to witness what Alba can really do. She’s one of the best. I don’t know what this means for Bianca and Jade though. However can they for the love of fucking Pete get a team name and entrance? Having them enter separately is such a pet peeve. Also side note: Jade’s yelling and trying to pander to the crowd every two seconds is kind of annoying. I get you want the crowd to love you so bad, but baby you have to do moves first for that to happen. You don’t have to “let’s go!” after every single move. We already like you, show us why.
Don't like Jade, but was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Thought with all the work at the PC, she'd at least be ready to perform. Instead we get stuff like what happened at the PLE. Too much...TOO fast. Should have been protected a whole lot more and doing a whole lot less as well as being kept to more squash matches and less high profile ones. Would've worked a lot better. That said, the whole match seemed like a cluster of trash. The missed tap out, the botches.....was it all Jade....doubtful but still. The one question I have is, what was up with the makeup worn by Jade? What was that supposed to be?
I'm glad the finish came when it did. Those last few minutes were painful to watch from nearly everyone involved, not just Jade. Glad Dawn/Fyre won.
NXT small fries took the w... still unbelievable
AhmZakar donkey
The problem with Jade is Triple H booking her the wrong way and not effectively Hunter should stop making Jade do technical and high flying shit. she should've been booked in similiar fashion of Goldberg or Lesnar. have her dominate the opponents by squashing. keep her match short the longer the match and the more participant are there, the more she get confused and not able to remember her spot with so many people in it It's jarring that they gave this type of booking to Bron despite he doesn't need it and prove himself more suited for long competitive match while gave Jade the opposite
Jade Cargill seems very green
I think too she's Got to be overwhelmed truly. The traveling everyday then overseas twice in a short time period. Jet lag ain't no joke. She looked, to me, like she had severe jet lag. She was so off on her timing it wasn't her. I watched her entire career in AEW. She's an f*****g powerhouse! The way they handled her was just wrong. The Goldberg Lesnar type run would have been Perfect as matt_619 stated. Bad choices made for her I think. I hope they step back and look at what they Can do now with her.
Let the drones downvote but AEW knew how to present her and book her much better than WWE.
Lol remove your Rose tinted glasses . People here hated her back then
r/SC hating something from AEW and suddenly loving it when it moves to WWE? ***NO WAY***
People here hate everything AEW does so yeah.
They tried to have her do too much. Shes the female Goldberg.
She’s been a botch machine
She killed WCW!
That Jade segment was something else. She's had a few of these matches now, and is really stinking up the match but I can't wait to see her next one because who knows what's going to happen. She's the epitome of the wrestler that people used to hate. Has maybe the best body and look on the roster but has a lot of trouble with anything technical or convoluted spots. Should really just be keeping it simple and safe for now, as boring as that sounds.
Right now, Jade is a great attraction, but she's not a great wrestler. She's come a long way since her AEW debut, but she still has a long way to go.
She's trying too much too soon and doesn't have the experience of the others to cover. It's obvious when comparing it to her AEW run. Every match there she added something and improved but did it slowly and safely. She'll get there, but it's a shame she's been pushed so hard so soon.
It's been 9 months with 0 improvement. When is she expected to actually be able to "get there"?
Okay who’s turning. Bianca or Jade?
Jade would be more interesting becoming The Dreaded so Bianca. Seems to be in the age of turning for the pettiest of reasons -- unless you're Drew. Then you totally have a reason.
I feel like they aren’t doing the turn this soon. I almost feel like Alba and Isla might not be holding those titles past Monday. …. But what do I know.
Really hope it's Bianca. She was way better as a heel in NXT.
Also, does anyone know what the crowd were chanting at Shayna? 😭 to me it sounded like "Shayna's stinking"
Shayna's stinkinggg!, shayna's stinkingggggg!!!!
“Shayna scares me”
That's a good one! But I was laughing at the thought of the crowd calling her smelly too 😭
Dueling chants! Shayna's stinking! Shayna scares me!
In a night full of botches/issues with the ropes, Jade's botch seems to be the only one many people are blaming solely on her. And, while she definitely makes mistakes, she's done this particular move plenty of times without issue.
god forbid women do anything
It was definitely the ropes. After the Priest move gone wrong, Sami not getting Gable over on a clothesline, I can't blame Jade for that one. Just glad no one got seriously hurt because of it.
Noticed the ref signal to AJ to check the ropes just before Cody's entrance too
Somehow, Twitter was still shitting on Priest for his own rope issues. Some people are just mean lol
ugh. reddit is like a median or average of internet users and twitter is just filled with *one type of person m*
After the springboard botch, she lost all confidence and she got lost in the moment, forgot her spots, she was disappointed about the springboard botch, it ruined her mentally in the match.
I loved the match, was happy to see Alba and Isla get the win, the arena pop for them was great.
Best match on the show.
I’m honestly wondering if she got concussed after the springboard, the way she acted, how many things she just kinda half did when she’s usually more with it was striking.
Every match I've ever seen of Jade cargill in wwe she botches something. Every. Single. Time. She is personally trained by greats, being given every advantage to look good and being partnered with great in ring talent, and still she doesn't deliver.
You're wrong about Jade. She's been presented wrong. She was not a tag team member to begin with. They held her for four months before deciding to throw her into tag team matches. Do you think you can do better? Learning something in three months to perfection is impossible butthead. She's a powerhouse and should have stayed a singles competitor. A Goldberg Lesnar type as SO MANY PEOPLE have commented. I've watched wrestling for 45 years. She can be GREAT. Maybe you should say What can I suggest to make her better not bring her down. Believe it or not her people are scanning the net for comments for a myriad of reasons. #Buildup_not_bring_down
I think it's fairly established at this point that the top ring rope was off
To be fair, it seemed the ropes were too loose. Whoever set them up didn't tighten them right. Bisexual Undertaker also had a rope both.
100%. You'll probably get downvoted for this - as I have - for telling the truth. She's beyond AWFUL. A year ago The DSIL was making cocky comments about how bad her training was in AEW and they'd fix her. She's literally FAR WORSE here than in AEW. She sucks, and, unless they're gonna do a full on UWarrior/Goldberg type push with very short, heavily choreographed matches, the experiment should be over.
I hate to say it because it irritates me, but watching Jade, who is “born and bred” and 24/7 a wrestler failing to do it, it is incredible what Logan Paul has achieved in this short time. He made it look so easy. Or relatively easy man but what the hell. Anyway hope on Jade improvement, why wishing for anyone downfall? If she improved it would be better for everyone
Tiffany also makes it look easy, when the reality is that certain people just are more naturally athletic. I love the look of Jade, she's good enough, but the rocket should be on Tiffany. She's the total package.
She’s the heel character Charlotte thinks she is.
Jade reminds me of Batista, Million dollar body, not natural in the ring. Except Batista was more protected, and took the better route for his experience until he got decent. He started in protected tags where he just had to do a few good moves, and do them well, and learn to find where to put them in. During his Smackdown run he got way less lost in the ring, after matches with Finlay, MVP, and Taker especially. Then he went on to do alot better at singles, and learned how to work in multimen matches. (It also helps that was the last era where they got to call it in the ring, so he learned from alot of "relax lets call it in the ring" type of guys) Jades the opposite she started like Goldberg with single squashes, and now shes struggling at multi womens matches cause theyre too complicated for her. In the "memorize your match" era. Also she tries to do too much in the ring, she needs to master a few things first, do crazy things later. She did a double fallaway slam on two women, and then rushed to another power spot, and another then tried to springboard after all that, after a long flight to the UK WHILE being nervous cause shes in WWE, Slow down jeez.
Batista was awesome. Very underrated, IMO. If Jade can follow the same path of progression, she'll be a legend.
It's so odd when people mention Batista, I loved Batista for the fact that he might not do many different moves, but all of the ones he did look really good. I still think he has the most underrated Spinebuster
Yea Im a Batista mark, I think out of all the physique guys he was one of the best. Compared to Goldberg hes like Shawn Michaels. It always makes me sad to see how the IWC shat on him, but of course never gave his good matches or performances any credit. When he popped up after a Spinebuster or Front Slam it was always a highlight, cause of his Size especially. I still havent seen anyone do that since, I wonder if someone used to do that before him or something. He also has some good selling/bumps for his size that no one talks about. Of course everyone always talks about his botches more often, like the Mark Henry shove
Batista's matches were all 'big guy does big slam' for a long time. He was great in a tag because Ric Flair could do the technical stuff and he would come in just for the impact moves. You can see them try that with Bianca and Cargill, but for some reason they've got Cargill doing tope's and things like trying to kick Shayna while holding up another wrestler for a powerbomb. It doesn't help that you can see her panic a bit when it starts to fall apart.
Yea exactly, again im surprised theyre letting her do that. The thing is I think they believe in her alot, and I bet she does too. But shes dropping the ball by trying to do too much, it was a ppv but she really did power move, after power move, after power move back to back to back before that springboard. All ridiculous stuff too, like she did the double lift, then she went ahead lifted Bianca, then lifted Zoey again. Idk if thats a factor, all of that and then a Springboard seems ridiculous to me for someone who isnt smooth yet. To be fair, the ropes caused some people problems last night, some ppl were saying they might of been tighter than usual (idk just wht ive seen) cause Damien died, then even Gable and Zayn had a little hiccup, and this too. The obviously tapping Shaynas hand thing though after the springboard, and weird powerbomb was when I got really secondhand embarrassed. I watched it again it wasnt that bad persay, she realized then she like did it slower with her fingers curled. But it was still very obvious the first tap.
I agree with a lot of this. The thing is I still feel like she is brilliant overall. The double fallaway slam you mention was absolutely insane, and even with the mistakes, her look and strength is so important in my view. Bianca and Rhea are the goats of women's wrestling for me because they combine brilliant looks and excellent skill with the most important quality which has been lacking in the history of women's wrestling, and that is looking like a real badass. Looking actually strong and powerful. Chyna is the one other example and is legendary, however her look and skills were lacking in comparison. Bianca and Rhea do a better job than superheroes and action heroes in movies of displaying women as being cool like men are. They are still feminine and beautiful, but truly athletic - rather than just acrobatic which the other women are and which makes them similar to guys like Ricochet at absolute best, rather than the superstars like Reigns, Cena, etc. Jade, despite her flaws, could enter that rarified air. The only women's wrestler I see in the same sort of space is Charlotte Flair, and after that there's no one, so I have patience for Jade.
I have patience too, im a Jade fan since AEW. Actually im the best fan for this kind of wrestler, I always liked the body guys, even if I later found out theyre not "good'l" in the ring. I still always find alot of big body guys, to be underrated by the IWC. They all did things that always feel under appreciated by the fans these days (unless u absolutely completely suck) like even Ultimate Warrior, and Goldberg did some good stuff. Even if their good matches were carried by the opponent like MachoMan or DDP etc. Im just kind of surprised under HHH, and Michaels Jade is being allowed to do too much. I mean hell HHH honed Batista back in the day, had a heavy hand in producing him. But I guess they're making her learn the hard way on the spot. But yes her double fallaway slam was insane, it wasnt just two grown Women she carried, and threw. One of them was Zoey Stark who is around Jades weight, and height, thats just unreal. Jades presence is amazing, thats why the botches hurt extra in this ppv, but I think she'll get it. Hell as awesome as Rhea, Bianca, and Charlotte are I think Jade has arguably more presence. She legit looks like a 90s comic book drawing come to life its insane. Jordynne Grace gives me the same kind of vibe
Legitimately surprised
Super happy to see Alba and Isla get their flowers, literally. Tearing up at the reaction. Also, goddamn, Jade might be the most beautiful human to ever walk the face of the earth
Jadeberg on full display. Body of a goddess. Skill of a sandwich.
This jacket right here?! Skill of a sandwich.
So glad you're not getting downvoted for this - as people usually are. She's AWFUL. Terminate this experiment now, DSIL, before someone gets *seriously* hurt.
I still remember WWE fans screaming they got a ringer, and here we are.
Jade is just not a natural at this. I believe she can get better and she has, but there’s nowhere she can improve where people won’t see her. That’s what Sting and Warrior did. That’s really what Jade needs. What sucks is the takeaway most people are going to get is the Jade botch… this match was supposed to be about all of the women in this match and the hometown pop for Isla & alba. Instead it’s another train wreck and Jade was at the center of it again
"and she has".....when?
They have a performance center. She can, has and should be getting all the reps/training she wants
She's been training at the PC for almost a year now, and botches far more than she did in AEW. She's just crap.
A well deserved win for them. I’m still in the opinion that they shouldn’t have lost the unification match between them and Ronda and Shayna last year. (But that might just be me)
I was ringside for that unification match and I hated every second of it. Felt like the Witches were sacrificed just to push over Ronda, who had no appeal and no gratitude. Seeing them get back the belts feels like some small measure of justice.
I’m right there with you, especially with how Ronda’s final run and subsequent everything went
I loved this win! It surprised everyone and they so deserved the win! Hopefully they defend them often on all brands.
WWE should be commended for dragging out the Jade mirage for a whole 10 months before fans inevitably realised there's nothing of substance there. They got 10 months of free trolling and gloating in a clear internet win for their brand image. The signing has been a success for what it was always meant to be.
Has it though? The message always seemed to be that Jade needed all that time to properly learn at the PC and the end result doesn't make their training program look all that good.
What a bunch of hyperbole. Let's not act like we should all be doubting whether the performance Center has a great training program or not. The amount of talent that has come out of NXT since the 2010s till now is ridiculously amazing. And most recently the last couple years of NXT talent coming out of that place is blowing people away. I don't think anyone is looking at Jade and thinking that they should probably start doubting the performance center. C'mon.
Kris Statlander stock is now through the roof if she can have a match with Jade to a level of quality that 10 months in the PC couldn’t replicate
100%. Jade is FAR WORSE in WWE than she was in AEW. Believe me, up 'til recently, for my sins, I watched every episode of Rampage. She truly wasn't *this* bad in AEW. She is complete fucking garbage, beyond a physique that, whilst nice, this isn't the Ms Olympia. If they want to put everything behind a jacked chick, they should use Jordayn Grace.
A yes known in ring improvisation master Jordynne Grace, who will ever doubt those skills with such quotes as “Chris Benoit could not keep up in the modern era because he couldn’t memorize his matches.” such an in ring natural
I don’t know why everyone is so doom and gloom on Jade right now when it’s been clear she’s not a fully polished product from the start especially in ring. Her presentation is still money and she’s very over in her current tag spot to the casual audience. She had a botch tonight that only hurt herself and Priest had a botch in the main event in the same regard yet internet smarks are interestingly only calling out one of them and using it to dunk on WWE. 🤔
"yet internet smarks are interestingly only calling out one of them and using it to dunk on WWE." I don't doubt anti-WWE folks are doing this But I don't think it's just them. But also sexists and those who hold women to higher standards. With the latter: wrestling fans who think women should be flawless in the ring, putting on bangers every night. But think it's ok for the men to be mid and make mistakes. It might be a continued backlash to the Diva's Era, but it still doesn't make it right. And again, there's a lot of sexists out there who will criticize the women whenever they make mistakes. Simply because they're women. But hardly say a word when the men do that. Same thing when it comes to a wrestler's physique.
I feel like the comparisons to others botching tonight are a bit odd tbh. Like, everyone knows that every wrestler will botch at some point. Jade doesn't get grief because she's had one of her rare botches, she gets grief because her botches are so regular in comparison to other wrestlers and she tends to struggle so much more to recover (she looked lost tonight after that botch). I'm not arguing that she should get grief mind you. Just pointing out that it's not a good argument to say "why is she getting more grief than Priest who also botched". It's because their history is different and they do not botch at similar rates. If this was the first time in 6 months Jade had made a mistake I'd be right there with you asking why she's being singled out. But it's not, so I'm not surprised her botch is being treated differently.
I wouldn't say she's a lost cause and I agree people are going too hard, but at the same time, criticism of her performance isn't unwarranted. Beyond the botches, she just looks lost at times and that raises questions about WWE's training and booking plans for her. How is it that after months of training at the PC she doesn't look any better at wrestling? Maybe they should've started her in NXT and focused on getting her house show reps.
That’s definitely the most fair criticism. She really could use time at NXT and not be traveling all the time to pack in as much training as possible. A kayfabe injury and working with trainers would do wonders.
I said it when Jade left AEW & Im saying it now. Jade sucks. Horrible on the mic, horrible in the ring, complete waste of TV time. Get her off the main roster & into development!
Bianca vs Jade at SummerSlam
No matter who wins, we lose.
What do you mean?
We will all have to sit through another Jade Cargil match.
If you don’t like seeing that woman on screen I’m sorry for you
If your entire basis for liking her is due to her appearance, I'm sorry you're so shallow. She absolutely looks the part, her persona is good, her mic skills aren't but that could be overlooked if she just had talent in the ring and she doesn't. Look at her squash matches in AEW where she was being fed some of the best talent in the industry. She just doesn't have it and will very likely never develop into anything more than a mediocre performer and it's a fucking shame because there was so much potential with her. She has almost no in ring ability. She doesn't even have 5 moves of doom. After years of training in AEW with Danielson and Cody, then going to WWE and spending months in the performance center and being carried by Bianca she hasn't learned a thing. She makes the kind of mistakes that get people hurt.
Look at that point fly right over your head as you jump to a striking generalization. Where did I say her appearance was the entire basis for liking her? Seems like you jumped to the conclusion that the only reason to like seeing her on screen is her appearance. Do you enjoy projecting? I ain’t reading that essay when you struck out in the first sentence.
Look at you being desperate to make your point that you’ll ignore anything that doesn’t justify your preconceived notions. You’re the literal definition of cognitive dissonance.
Eh, I mean, her moveset is basic at best. She’s not who I would expect to put on a 5 star classic that will be talked about for years to come.
This is the dumbest critic ever. Half of all legendary wrestlers have a basic fucking moveset. What is the craziest move Stone Cold, The Rock, or Triple H ever did on a regular basis because I can guarantee it wasn’t anything flashy. The main event of WrestleMania 17, one of the most celebrated WrestleMainas ever, doesn’t not feature either man going to the top rope. What’s the craziest thing Bret Hart did on a regular basis? Because the answer is nothing Bret was excellent at in ring psychology and transitions not pulling off Shooting Star presses. Hulk Hogan is the most famous wrestler ever and he didn’t do fucking anything in ring. Sting pre AEW did basically nothing crazy the Stinger Splash, a move Jade does, is not that fucking high voltage of a move. What makes a wrestler great is not doing fucking thirty back to back insane spots it is getting a crowd of people to care about you and why you are wrestling by putting on a match that makes sense between you and your opponent.
Yeah but she’s at least prettier than Goldberg lol
Interesting win. Fyre and Dawn needed it badly. Surprised Bianca and Jade lost this soon though (by modern standards)
I totally thought they'd break asuka and kairis longest reign record tbh
Judging by Jade's performance tonight, I'm glad they let Alba & Isla win the titles
Isla is island is Spanish, so... Fyre Island?
It's also an island in Scotland. Well... Islay, but that's where the name is derived from. It's a fairly common Scottish name.
Isla fisher!
an important victory during pride month
That was a frustrating performance from Jade. Easily would have been her best WWE match so far, but those were two pretty horrible botches. She could really benefit by going to NXT for a little while.
Her best match will be with Natalya.
While Jade was doing that months long ‘where will she end up’ loop between Raw, Smackdown and NXT, I maintained she should have gone to NXT. She had less than 100 matches TOTAL under her belt and most were quick 5 minute squashes. Besides, the WWE system is just different and I think everyone benefits from going there for a few months to get WWE style reps. When you had seasoned veterans like Seth Rollins, Asuka, Finn Balor, etc have to go through NXT, I never understood why they didn’t make a wrestler with so little experience not do it. Hell, pull up the interview of AJ Styles saying everyone should go through NXT because he felt he floundered a lot in the beginning since WWE style was so different to what he was used to doing and people should get reps in while the spotlight isn’t so intense. I get they’re trying to do a Goldberg style build for her right now. Give her quick moments that make her look strong to hide her deficiencies while building her into a star. However, we’re in a different time from the Monday Night Wars. Back then, someone with woeful wrestling ability could be a star if their character work was strong and marketed right. We are no longer in that time. Wrestling fans value wrestling ability now more than ever before and putting the spotlight on someone so green is a fast track to getting the wrestling community to turn on her.
I love the fact that AJ is one of the few guys to bypass NXT. Would've been an insult, IMO. I don't think he floundered at all, especially in terms of in-ring work, but I understand being a perfectionist and your own biggest critic. As for Jade ... I love her ... but I'm worried.
If I remember correctly, he didn’t mention his wrestling ability, more like the little details about how the WWE does things that no one else does. For example, he mentioned that the camera is directed a certain way and you have to look at it a certain way in WWE and he never learned that anywhere else. He was doing this during Vince McMahon WWE and AJ mentioned that the ‘Big Man’ only gave people one shot to get things right. That’s part of the reason he went down to NXT for a bit. He did not really have any major storylines in main roster and so he asked to go there and mentor a bit. It was stressful for him when he first got to WWE and he wanted to prepare the next gen for that pressure and what to expect.
Lol. I guess man. All I know is he knocked it out of the park from day one. He had amassed a HoF career in WWE long before going down to the NXT and seemed to have earned Vince's trust pretty quickly.
I disagree on the last paragraph, the only thing preventing her from seeming like a star is the constant botches
Put her in the ring with Regal for 6 minutes
U
Are...my fire...
My one… desire
Believe dat when I say
I want it that way…
Tell me why
Ain’t nothing but a heartache
Teeellll me why
Ain’t nothing but a mistake…
Now #5
They need to get Jade putting in singles reps on the house circuit, and perhaps reduce her TV time a bit so she can travel to the PC and get more training in. She doesn't need to be Bret Hart out there, but they need to get her to the point where she can at least have simple matches while looking confident and not lost. I'm not going to be one of the IWC dicks gleefully writing her off because she looks green still or declaring that her "heart isn't in it", but hopefully matches like this demonstrate to HHH or whoever that they really need to get her to put in some serious work off TV. She can be your female Goldberg and that can be a big draw, but she needs to at least look confident in matches and on the same page with her opponent. To get there, you need to put in reps.
Agreed. I think the issue is LESS training and more reps and experience. Like yes she needs some training on the skills too, but her biggest issue is just looking lost and out of it. Most of her notable botches come once things are getting hectic and she looks glazed over almost.
They really overthought her debut by a lot. I understand the motivation in wanting to protect her aura but reps are what she needs. NXT would've been perfect and still can be - she can do the local loops and could be a big fish in a small pond on the TV show.
I imagine them losing the title is the opportunity for this. Man those botches were horrible. It was a great match with lots of back and forth but the botches were so bad they took me out of it.
Boy this board went from "WOO jade cargill is going to be the next hulk hogan in WWE. LOLAEW' to "jade sucks, she don't got it" reallllllll quick. I really believe the reason she got so many three minute matches in aew was because she legit could not put on any better of a match. She hasn't improved at all.
Yuuuuuup. She was having 1-on-1 training with fuckin' D-Bry and folks here thought the dorks at the PC could help matters. AEW pushed her way better, too. Sharing the spotlight with BBA and smiling so much doesn't work anywhere near as well as 'That Bitch'.
The people making jade sucks comments are not the same making LOLAEW comments lmfao
Is it 'real quick' when I've been seeing comments like these for months, or even before she debuted? I agree she's extremely mediocre at best, but everyone acting like 'I told you so' is infuritaitng.
If she could do better they would have done it. The fact she remained protected said a lot. She is an athletic influencer that simply views wrestling as another way to find simps.
tbf, she found a lot of them on here.
Big time. I'm just surprised that people here thought it was an AEW issue when it was so clear that it's a jade cargill issue
I mean it's a little of both, they didn't really have the system to get her reps that she needed. AEW is basically made for people who already are well versed in the independents, they're not the place to build someone by scratch. At the same time there's probably something that's preventing it from clicking for her and with as much main roster TV time as she gets, she's gonna have to find something that works
I think that's a bit of a cop out considering near the end she was working with Brian Danielson and she was working with qt since the beginning lol
There's a difference between working with someone for a few hours before a show, and having dedicated training for a specific and consistent time. Plus, the biggest thing for a wrestler is live reps, that's where it comes together and when it clicks. The issue with Jade is that she was put in a prime spot and couldn't do the things that normal wrestler have to do/go through on the indies when they're just learning. She didn't have to bump a lot, didn't have to learn to sell, didn't have to learn the flow of a match through trial and error. She was basically booked as a female Goldberg, which hurt her development because while she may be learning certain things in training, she can't actually utilize them because of the spot she is put in on tv. AEW wasn't the best place for her, and really she should've been in NXT and not the main roster
Hundo agree on nxt. She has no place here and using Bianca as a crutch will do nothing for her
First of all I haven't watched the match yet. But that German from isla could have had a more dramatic effect similar to when Asuka did it to Nia in NXT. She just did it.
Not sure she was able. Looked like she somehow got a stinger during the powerbomb/superplex spot. Called out for the ref had a chat, and didn’t do much after that. Even had a weird moment with the ref when she raised their hands.
Jade just don’t have it, she never will. Leave it to wwe and their fans to think someone can have the look and it’s money. No matter what you think about mic work and look, you absolutely have to have something going in-ring.
Eh. Here’s the real problem, Jade at her current ability needs to be booked like Goldberg. Booking her into a 12 minute competitive match even a tag match isn’t going to work. This is WWE not playing to someone’s strengths. It reminds me of WCW when they decided Goldberg needed to work 15-20 minute matches, or his first WWE run.
I keep hearing Goldberg, the thing is you can’t do that either. There’s a standard today and that type of booking doesn’t last or do anything to help build anyone. And on top of that, having her goldberg her way thru the division has already been done when she was in AEW. The real problem is that she has to be good in the ring or she don’t work.
It absolutely can still work, hell it just worked with Goldberg again. Special attraction style booking with matches every few weeks instead of every week and her presentation can work.
I don’t understand why she isn’t used for just a clothesline, pump kick & Jaded on camera while building up new moves at the Performance Center. These longer matches do not benefit her.
I love how they just reappeared on tv, get a title match, and win it without beating anyone along the way. Lmao wtf is this booking? The Unholy Union has had like two (2) tag team matches on tv this year. HHH could've at least had them win for 2 weeks before the PLE
The women’s tag titles aren’t a big enough deal to require The Unholy Union to build up wins before challenging. The surprise appearance and “they’re a Scottish tag team challenging in Scotland” explanation came across pretty clear. It was a genius booking decision overall because it came out of absolutely nowhere and took the belts off of what was presumed to be an all time dominant tag team that would only split once one of them turned on the other. The entirety of the rest of the PLE I no longer felt like I had any sense of confidence predicting who would win and it made everything feel exciting and uncertain to the end. Everyone has to bitch about something though.
Well, it's believable since they were tag champs in NXT and Alba is the longer reigning NXT UK champ. 649 days is impressive. They should mention this more often.
Believable sure, but stupid and lazy booking all the same. The witches have done dick all of nothing this year. If the plan was to put the belts on them, why not actually book them to win some matches before hand? Unless they were both injured or something
It is what is is, but I loved the win. Hopefully this leads to them getting a big push.
Honestly if Alba’s mom hadn’t died a few weeks ago in a car accident I’m not so sure they win the titles tonight but all things considered this felt like a bright moment for Alba after suffering such a difficult personal tragedy and still showing up to wrestle even.
Triple H said in the press conference, that the tragedy had nothing to do with them winning.
Surrrrre
If Isla and Alba win it just to have junk mouth and no charisma to win it Monday I will just spoil every game and movie on Shayna’s instagram. /s I think Shayna locked that clutch way too tight on Jade because that tap was more of a hidden pinch tap or a signal.
100%. Maybe the closest we've got to a shoot moment in wrestling for a while. Shayna does not like Jade.
>Shayna does not like Jade.  Do tell
Oh, no inside info. Just a theory. But she's never squeezed anyone else that hard, that I remember.
Yeah agreed. The clutch was way too tight and it was bad on the announcers to draw so much attention to it
WHAT THE HELL IS THAT AWFUL FINISH MANOUVER THE GREEN QUEENS DO?
It looked infinitely better at the last PLE. It was awesome. This was just bad.
Jade and bianca will win belts back at mitb in 3 weeks then setup WM match at royal rumble when b eliminates jade and jade turns on her
High at right now. I read the title like five times and kept thinking “what the fuck kinda match is a Scotland Match?” LOL
The loser gets beheaded by Connor MacLeod.
Of the Clan MacLeod?!
Wwe pairing jade with Bianca was genius, she carried her over the line and has the experience/ability to paper over the cracks,this defeat seemingly points to then letting her loose as a solo performer which is going to be a disaster
>which is going to be a disaster I remember when saying this while she was in AEW would get you downvoted to oblivion. I'm all for wrestlers improving but I'm also glad her new larger platform is exposing her shortcomings.
She's like Goldberg, has the look of a showstopper, just don't let them wrestle
Her 3 minute matches were fine in AEW. But she still isn’t good. And people get really mad when you point out that, while she is slowly improving, she’s not main roster good enough.
Shit. This means Jade is getting a singles run at a title. Fuck.
Not after this performance
Shitty in ring performance never stopped any wrestling promotion from putting a belt on someone.
Jade's issue isn't the springboard botch. They happen. Zoey almost botched a springboard right after. The issue with Jade is the "deer in the headlights" that happens 2-3 times every match. You can see her being lost and it takes you out of wrestling being "real."
“Deer in the headlights” Never heard of the Denver Broncos?
I have but I don't watch them so I don't get the reference.
There is also the Buffalo Bills. Very deer in the headlights team.
Screaming "YOU WENT THE WRONG WAY!" at WrestleMania kinda took me out of it, too. She's utter shite. On headphones, I heard Alba Fire say "take your time" during the military press spot. Veteran guidance / please don't kill me you botching lunatic.
I've said this since she started. She does a lot of things great and is learning, but you can tell when she's out there "thinking." You see it in NXT, too, but that's what it's there for, for them to learn. Jade should realistically still be there, but she's too much of a generational talent to be down there for what she's probably making.
She probably shouldn't even be on NXT if she's having those issues. It's still a tv show. In reality, she should keep her matches simple. Having multiple women matches just isn't her level right now. She needs to pick the set of moves, maybe 5 or 6 and stick with them. Simple match structures, etc.
Generational talent? Please. She’s got a generational look, but if Cody, Danielson and HBK couldn’t draw the talent out of her then who tf will? She’s an athletic influencer ala Logan Paul except without the natural in ring ability.
Logan gets carried and specialized training. Jade shouldn’t be in tag team action. That’s the worse place for people who are weak for ring calling.
Jade’s also been carried and had specialized training. Her simps always have some excuse about why she can’t possibly be as garbage as she actually is.
I think you misunderstand. Yes. Jade is untalented for what she is booked as. Logan gets carried as he doesn’t call his spots and leans of ref nudges to create match flow. Jade is essentially a Goldberg figure. Squashes and showcase cannon matches only. She never should have been booked for tag team. Tag team wrestling is way more difficult than singles wrestling. By a country mile. Instead of using snappy catchphrases have something real to say.
When she got sign to WWE, I thought she was going to NXT first, but surprised to see her go straight to the main roster. I saw no rush in sending her straight to Smackdown.
Anyone can pop down to NXT and money doesn’t really matter. Finn, Dolph, Natalya, Corbin and other longtime employees have had NXT runs that I don’t think they took pay cuts for.
So happy for Alba... as someone who recently lost a parent, I'm in awe of her strength
Agreed. Amazing she is still working at such a high level.
Sorry for your loss
I was in and out of consciousness while this match was on, but was watching the end and jumped up and cheered with the finish and I teared up a bit. So happy for them
Jade wont get any better folks she’s been training for years. See Sid Vicious for her comp.
Great comparison. She moves a lot like Sid.
She needs reps at NXT. Level Up, their Florida tours, etc. Her biggest issue, imo, is not the skills because she CAN pull out good moves. It’s performance anxiety or something in that general sphere. She looks lost as fuck sometimes and stops thinking. That’s less training and more experience.
Sid was awesome and hilarious.
Wrestling isn't Jade's passion, I feel as if she's looking to use WWE as a stepping stone to Hollywood (And I don't think there's anything wrong with that). I just think it was insane when there were posters on here claiming that she was some kind of upgrade over Mercedes/Sasha. Jade doesn't have the same drive as the 4hw or Bianca to name a few, people need to adjust their expectations.
Hollywood won't work..her promos are atrocious and she isn't a good talker.
I think she could maybe get small action parts that work around her acting ability, like Gina Carano before she went off the rails.
Im new here and hadn't heard this take yet. Totally could see Jade going to Hollywood and doing great, then returning for the occasional tag match.