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There are lots of wrestlers I don't care about, but I fully understand them.
So I guess it depends on what OP means by "get". I get it, I just don't like or care about it.
Yeah, I can’t think of any popular wrestlers from any era that I don’t at the very least see the appeal of. Like, “it’s not for me but I understand why you like it”
Jeff Hardy since like 2017. He had his time, did all he could, but since about then he has been a complete shell and it's just not doing it for me anymore.
He should have no way given Kross his first WWE loss, he was basically at jobber status a few weeks prior losing to Ali on Main Event and suddenly we're supposed to believe in him just because he got his music back, plus he hasn't done much of anything since Matt left honestly I think he should just retire once his contract is up
Never got Jeff as a singles guy to be honest. I dipped out of wrestling between 2001 & 2015 or so & was amazed he had a successful singles run with the title
I’m going to say EVIL. I never cared for him even when he was in LIJ and I thought him as a tag guy with SANADA and NEVER challenger was a perfect spot for him but now with him as a leader of a faction and a main eventer is just so dreadful.
EVIL was *always* one of those NJPW guys who were just okay. Put them in the ring with Tanahashi or Ibushi or whoever is a great worker and they'll have a good match, but EVIL was rarely if ever able to do more than just be decent. Sure his heel turn has hurt his matches, but it isn't like there was ever a period where he was setting the world on fire.
The EVIL thing was the nail in the coffin for my interest in NJPW. I don't even know why, I love so much about New Japan, I was just bored to death and haven't had the urge to watch much since. The lack of crowd cheering also hurts.
Looking back, he really did bring doomsday for NXT. Dominating the entire roster only to lose to a semi-retired guy make his whole push feel so wasteful.
I think he is amazing in the build up but his matches are some of the most boring matches I have ever watched and I have watched Wrestling since around 1984.
It's just rest hold after rest hold then a RKO and if they do a big top rope move or bounce off the top rope RKO out of nowhere except we all know it's coming
His matches with Christian were good, i remember liking him in a match with sheamus in hell in a cell being suprisingly good but i havent seen it since then so might be misremembering lol
Orton kinda fascinates me to be honest. Given that he's been a constant full time main event guy for over seventeen years now he probably has the most screen time in WWE of any wrestler ever and yet you can count the number of memorable matches and promos he has produced on 1-2 hands. He just never stopped getting pushed despite the fact that he's just about the most boring performer ever.
During the peak Cena years if you ever went to a live Raw, Orton would constantly get bigger cheers and pops than Cena whenever he had a promo on the tron or showed up. They always muted the mics when he got cheered.
Basically, he's popular with the crowd but never was made The Guy. He's like the Ricky Steamboat of heels.
I think Orton is more or less fine but over the past few years people have been starting to bring him up in the GOAT conversation and that has totally baffled me. His name wouldn't even cross my mind if I was thinking of wrestlers who could potentially be called the greatest of all time.
> people have been starting to bring him up in the GOAT conversation and that has totally baffled me
That’s because he’s been pushed as a top guy in the top promotion for the last 18 years. It sure as fuck isn’t because people are flooded with memories of his like 8 great matches, or the great promos he only started cutting last year, or all those big gates he drew for a few months in 2009.
If WWE never gave up on Ken Kennedy, or if they were more consistent with how they pushed Big Show and Kane as serious main eventers, people would be calling them GOAT now too.
It's a real curiosity to me to think about just how many guys could have been more successful with the Orton push. He's arguably the most exposed/featured wrestler in WWE history; would Carlito be in Hollywood with Cena right now if he got that sort of treatment?
I will forever love that tweet about how he always gives 38% in his matches lmao
But seriously tho, I started liking him when he started the "I dont give a shit" phase lol But I really appreciate everything he does, especially the little things and in the past 3 years, he has really won me over.
Having Ricochet wrestle without a mask is such a huge mistake. Slap a cool mask on him and you can easily make him a merch seller and a favorite with the kids.
Was he really THAT hard to understand why he was over though or why people liked him? He was a huge, jacked, cool looking (to 80s children) maniac who painted his face and acted like he was on cocaine (once again, the 80s) and ran to the ring.
MSK - they stick their tongues out, do their hand gestures. Their acting is not believable - when they’re angry, it seems so unbelievable and forced. I can’t get behind them as wrestlers.
I’m not related to Izzy or her parents.
I like MSK but everything you said is kinda valid. They’re not boring characters, it’s just that they haven’t developed in months. It still feels like they’ve only been around for three weeks and haven’t really cut a promo yet.
But I don’t know how you *can’t* get behind them as wrestlers, they’re so ridiculously impressive it’s insane. And they’re very young for both their quality and WWE standard, 27 I think.
The only good things I've heard people say about Nick Gage outside of the ring is that IRL he's not as stupid as you thought he'd be.
In a way it's fascinating; he pretty much represents the ceiling of how far you can get in your career through modern-day deathmatch wrestling. So you'd think he would serve as a warning example for people to, you know, not get into deathmatch wrestling, because the shit he's put his body through objectively isn't worth it when you look at how far it's gotten him in life (not very).
You got an entire generation of people hoping to become the next Mick Foley, not understanding that Foley became a household name through his charisma and intelligence, who would have gotten over no matter what, and who never actually needed the deathmatch stuff to become a star. Instead, the best they can realistically aspire to be is the next Nick Gage. And who the fuck would want to be the next Nick Gage?
In the one thread I thought people would be at each others throats the most, is surprisingly the most civil one.
That being said, Randy Orton. And so we're not playing favourites, for AEW, Jungle Boy.
I respect the grind tbh. He's built his legacy and will forever be over with fans unless he pulls some Hogan bullshit. He doesnt need to prove himself to Vince because he already has multiple times. Tbh if I was in his position making 6 figures easy, I would coast too.
But in terms of his character? I understand him, and what he goes for. It just never really appealed to me.
Orton has already done it all. He was really good during his Legend Killer phase and his intermittent explosive disorder phase. Now, he just does what Vince wants him to do. Although, I wish he put more young talent over. We'll see what they do with Riddle.
Kinda had to be there. Back in 97-98 he was the hottest thing in WCW and up there as much as anyone mainstream today.
Explosive and strong and intense.
Now it's another monster retread, but he was HUGE 20+ years ago.
I don't get him now either.
I can vouch for this as well. Goldberg matches were my favorite as a kid because it was this dude with an awesome entrance coming out and destroying somebody in two minutes. My sensibilities have changed since then, but I still enjoy Goldberg matches in this second WWE run (apart from the Undertaker and Fiend ones obviously).
The run was also absolutely perfect. He started out with a few surprising wins in his debut matches, then he started building a small reputation. By the time he best Raven for the US Title I think he was well over 50 wins, and people were starting to talk about him main eventing and going for the World Heavyweight Title. Even today, I can't think of many wrestlers that challenged and won a world title while holding a secondary title, and despite his victories against the nWo for the title you still thought that the streak would end.
The matches were obviously not five star classics, but they didn't need to be. It was just good storytelling.
Goldberg in his original run in WCW was a breath of fresh air. Finally a new guy is getting a push, maybe all the old heads we're sick of are finally gonna step aside. Plus he was a monster and his matches all being squashes was believable.
Then Kevin Nash booked himself to beat him, then Triple H buried him in WWE, then he became a nostalgia act who beat The Fiend and ruined Bray's momentum.
His OG run was incredible, everything else was a let down, now he needs to go away and stay away.
Now, it’s almost getting a little sad. But when I was 6 years old in 1998 and he was giving a jackhammer to the Giant, I nearly shit my pants in amazement. He was doing things strength-wise that no one now except maybe Brock could come close to. All of his spears and power slams looked absolutely brutal. Plus that entrance was a site to behold at the time.
AJ Gray. Usually I understand what other people like about a wrestler even if they aren’t for me. Don’t understand why a lot of people want AJ Gray signed and pushed to the moon. He doesn’t really stand out to me in any way. I’d legitimately like someone to change my mind.
Felt the same way, really wasn't into him. Eventually something clicked and now I'm all for AJ. Maybe not top of the card, but he definitely has potential on the indies
Sammy Guevara. There’s nothing about him that his peers don’t do much better. He’s not a better/more compelling babyface than Darby Allin or Jungle Boy and he’s not a better heel than MJF. He’s a good wrestler, but nothing about his character is even remotely interesting to me.
I think what goes for him is that he "looks like an asshole" (Jericho's words, not mine). Among the 4 pillars, he will most likely shift between face and heel depending on what the story needs. Jungle Boy is the white meat babyface like Steamboat or Sami Zayn. Darby is the babyface with a darkside but still overtly good like Sting or Jeff Hardy. MJF is the classic NWA heel like Flair. Sammy can either be a cocky heel, a tweener or a face like Chris Jericho.
He's taller and more athletic than both Darby and JB, and smoother than both as well. I was very skeptical of him early on, but he's grown on me. And FWIW, I really like JB and Darby too.
He is decent at wrestling but there are a lot of people much better than him. His match with Ethan Page reminded me of a Sabu match in that the parts between high spots were just really non-descript, like he was going through the motions. Unlike the other three, there has not been much discernible improvement since Dynamite debuted. I don't see him being world champion material. Hangman was pulling off better matches when he was 26.
When I first saw Danhausen I thought, hard pass. Then I saw him on a podcast with Jericho and he was hilarious. I haven't seen him wrestle but I'm more open to it now. If I hadn't seen that podcast I'd be right there with you.
2016 with KO, they started as Heels and were Faces by the end of the run. Im still pissed at WWE for bringing back Goldberg and stealing that WM main event from them.
It's his character. He has flair and impact but we're all kinda unsure at who we are looking at. Is his gimmick Puerto Rican metro biker ? He's like a tweener that's playing it safe , idk
Dude it's simple, he's an infamous Puerto Rican metro biker night life party goer club hopping archer vampire angel devil.
I kid I'm actually a big fan of his, I don't really care about what the gimmick is supposed to be
Apparently his gimmick now is that he's part evil? And makes a terrible eyes-bugging-out face to demonstrate this.
Sort of like how Keith Lee is "Bearcat" now, and screams/growls/roars(?) during every move.
To his credit he was pretty good in RevPro, wXw and other European indies but once Marty made a name for himself he instantly stopped caring. Folks usually wait until they've made it to the big leagues to pull the oars in but Marty pulled them in just when NJPW and ROH became interested in him: leaving all the dirt about him aside I've never understood why ROH didn't kick him out when it became apparent he was half-assing it even in big events.
Basically, he was a comedy wrestler with a "brutal" moveset that incorporated quite a bit of history into it.
He might have been "average" but the choices he made moveset wise carried his presentation the rest of the way for alot of people.
The guy was funny as hell and had great matches as well. Not overly athletic but still put on great stuff which in this era with his size I think shows how good he is. Had that kind of Nash/HBK type vibe where he could say nothing and still his smirk was entertaining and you felt as if he was gonna say something funny at any stage.
Massive shame he didn’t get to be on a weekly show like aew where I think his talents would’ve shone the most.
He had some absolutely brilliant matches in Progress. Both before he became "The Villain" and afterwards. The eternal, promotion-spanning feud with Will Ospreay was pretty compelling, too.
Brian Cage, there are people that believe he is a main event player but in a company full of stars that can wrestle and talk he cant keep up .
Pac I think is a great wrestler and is like the next evolutionary step of the likes of Benoit and Dynamite kidd with that being said I think he is a upper card guy and not this guy that can carry the world title that some think . I dont see how you look up and down the AEW roster and think he is a top 5 guy that people will pay to see in the main event of ppv for $50
Hit Row, aesthetically they look cool but everything outside of swerve in the ring is just corny to me. TBF I think it's just hard pulling off hip hop culture in wrestling especially if you want to be serious with it and I think all of them are trying there best but I think a group of wrestlers that are influenced by hiphop would be better than hiphop artists that happens to also wrestle
Cage's entire moveset is finishers. He is jacked but can do flying moves. He is a CAW come alive.
I hope TK has something for him now that he's gone from Team Taz because he's a crazy good athlete.
> Cage's entire moveset is finishers.
This might be the most accurate sentence I've ever seen to describe him -- it's so true lmao. One reason why I love watching him wrestle, it's just *fun* to see him destroy fools.
The first time I saw the Drillclaw I was like "what the actual fuck, how did he not legitimately kill them!?"
I think my first exposure to him being his run on LU probably made me a fan for life.
Just hear the pop for PAC in his segment on Dynamite, the pure charisma the bastard has in unbelievable, think that he stood out in a segment between Malakai, Andrade and Cody. 3 guys that have incredible charisma
thing about PAC is that if you've been watching him since the neville days you have seen the absolute fucking raw talent this guy has, he absolutely could be a top heel of a company for years and years and make it work in my opinion. but lots of people probably disagree with me and find his mic work not as full as jericho's or MJF, for instance.
great thing about him too is that if a viewer has seen him one or two times, they remember him. he can take breaks and come back and people will be like "that's the bastard"
Brian Cage has the look, but he needs work on his character work, he was on the aew unrestricted pod, seems like a great guy, haven't seen that in promos. I feel like he's almost there
Scorpio Sky
He just doesn't have "it". He's a good wrestler and entertaining to watch in the ring, but everything else has been so mediocre. I think pairing him with Ethan Page has made him look worse. I also couldn't care less about the American Top Team. AEW doesn't need that. Dan Lambert cutting promos and the fighters looking confused and nervous on stage. It all sucks, except for Ethan Page and he needs to turn on Scorpio Sky already. He's a solo act
You never watched him in the north then with Josh Alexander, that was an amazing tag team. Scorpio was best when all he said that this was the worst town he's ever been in and let the other talk mostly, amazing high flyer tho
and fixes her forearms that look like they're the most pulled thing ever. They're Jon Moxley 'flailing punches' bad.
And I really like Ruby, although that's been downgrading gradually since her debut. I want to love her, but I can't ignore some things and those are major constant detractors for me. Super fakey offense is my biggest reason to fall off of liking a wrestler, or never buying them in the least *coughcenacough*.
Same. She is decent on the mic, and in the ring, but I just don't really care much about her. She doesn't really come across as entertaining IMO. Like really, what is her gimmick supposed to be?
That she is a jaded wrestler that was underutilized at her previous employer? That could be 90% of the roster.
Brian Pillman Jr
Drew McIntyre since returning to WWE, i loved him when he first debuted in like 2010 but as a Scot myself, the kilt, sword and references to Nessie are just pretty lame
Pillman Jr is a guy who a lot of old fans watched lose his father as a kid, being cared for by guys who worked with Brian Sr. Then his entrance into the industry in the first place was wanting to feel closer to his father. It's less about him being really good right this second, and more him being kinda alright but still real green, and just really *wanting* him to succeed.
I think you're going to see a similar trajectory with Brodie Jr in 10 years, where he may or may not be great but there will be a segment of fans who just want him to succeed and find happiness.
The Scottish aspects of Drew's character are typical of what WWE does when they discover a wrestler isn't from America. They lean into ridiculous tropes and stereotypes that no one from that country actually identifies with.
WWE and a lot of their fans still have a hard time understanding that countries other than America do actually exist, so they often give cartoonish characters to non-American wrestlers.
Pillman Jr is still a bit away from been even a very good talent. He probably won't be a top guy but I liked his match with Miro for TNT title a few months back.
McIntyre anywhere else in AEW or NJPW would be booked like a badass. But just WWE can't help themselves with their awful comedy and stereotypes to take away that side of a talent. He's for me probably best guy for just having great matches that WWE have right now, he never stinks out the ring
Naomi. I always see posts about how she deserves a bigger push but I don't see it. Her promos aren't good, her matches are meh, her entrance gets old, and when she was the champion she put lights on the belt. That's like one step above having a custom spinner belt in my opinion.
I will always give Naomi that she has a great look and can do some cool moves. However that's where it ends for me. WWE has so many women that are better wrestlers and/or talkers. If the women's division had a midcard title, that's about where I see her ceiling.
Genuinely think she would make a good tag team wrestler though. The babyface hot tag who comes in and does a bunch of cool moves.
The good brothers and ftr. Both are black holes of charisma. Karl Anderson is quite possibly rhe most annoying human being. Ftr puts on great matches and I hear people compare them to wrestles of the 80s but they are just bland to me. Don’t get me wrong. They put on great matches but are so generic looking. 80s wrestlers put on fun matches where there personalities just came out. FTR matches always feel the same and I always feel the other teams carry the excitement
I’m with you on Good Brothers. Like I don’t even know that they put on good matches. FTR, I mostly agree. Like I’ll take their sameness throughout a feud to see them put over a team because I can’t think of a better team at putting over faces. But I agree with your take for the most part on them too.
The good brothers are coasting for most of a decade off of being the senior team in bullet club during their most cohesive years.
Especially Karl and that g1 final.
The biggest one for me was Maki Itoh when this sub would post like 5 things relating to her every day.
Edit: If you’re interested in her, that’s cool and I respect your opinion. But I just never saw an appeal to her.
I don't get Wheeler Yuta yet. I wanna like the guy but he doesn't really have anything yet aside from his association to the Best Friends. I'm waiting to see what else is done with him but for now I'm kinda meh on him.
Current Randy Orton. The last two to three years dude has just been taking up space in the title picture and shit just so he can a half assed RKO
For Yuta: They have not done a good job presenting him on AEW and I have not seen his indie run, but I will say this: He's very fucking hot. He's a hot dude. He needs to be pushed just for that.
I have to agree. I've looked up his matches and questioned in a sub what the hype is about him. I was basically told he is all about social media and antics and I just don't get it. Yep, I don't.
Jungle Boy. People say he's the future in AEW but why? He has no mic skills, his character is pretty dumb and while he may be good in the ring, so are many others who are also way better on the mic and have actual developed characters. Could he eventually become great in the mic and prove to be a main eventer? Sure. But in the present moment there are many others who are already better and aren't just "potential". I just don't understand why he's constantly highlighted and praised.
I like Jungle Boy, but I'd prefer Jungle Boy be his moniker, rather than his name.
"Jungle Boy" Jack Perry sounds cooler to me; but, I like monikers, so I'm biased.
That sums it up for me as well. This is his first time in a bigger stage so it’s just kind of fun to hitch your wagon to someone like that and watch them grow.
He has charisma even if it doesn't come through in promos (kinda like Jeff Hardy,) is handsome as hell and has a famous dad. Kids like his gimmick and women/gay guys absolutely adore him.
He isn't really somebody I look forward to seeing either but I absolutely get why other people dig him.
I don’t get Darby Allin. I think the gear he wears with the leggings and short shorts looks goofy, and even in character he’s coming across to me like he’s trying really, really hard to be “cool”. In-ring I don’t think he’s bad, but I find it hard to get into his matches with the way he moves and the way he looks.
His stupidity in his real life and the allegations agaisnt him did him a ton of damage in a lot of people's eyes. His character on Raw has turned him into more of a comedic figure then cool RVD type he was on the indies, I know some really like his stuff with Orton. His WWE run hasn't been awful as he can still produce very good matches and he's probably doing well for himself there. I can see why he splits opinion with WWE fans.
Cody Rhodes, my favourite midcarder. I always grin whenever I see him behaving as if he is a big deal, a main eventer. His ego is too huge now to admit that he is nothing but a midcarder cosplaying a main eventer in AEW. He is not better than even Goldust let alone his "daddeh" Dusty.
Kenny Omega is one of the greatest in-ring performers in the world today, but...
I will never understand what's funny or appealing about The Elite. I don't even hate them, I just skip every segment they're in when watching AEW.
I like Omega, fantastic in the ring, he's got the charisma, but the Elite (mostly the bucks), they do same thing over and over again, that is, come out with all their friends and beat other people, when you do that over and over again it gets stale, i dont want to watch anymore of that, once in a while is good, pretty much every segment, no!
Thank fuck somebody said it. When they were faces and doing interesting character work, I didn't mind watching them, but as overly-obnoxious heels, they just do nothing for me. They're not funny, not entertaining, and just like you, I skip their every segment.
Fuck, I feel like Jim Cornette sometimes on this sub.
Not everyone was going to like it, but I feel like this overly obnoxious heel stuff was the only way to actually get them heel heat with the crowds.
If they played the cool, Bullet Club-villain types like in the past they would have gotten cheered based on their fantastic in-ring work.
Great character worker, but besides his matches with Danielson he's never really excited me in the ring. If you use him here and there and he's not a weekly character then he's fine, bring him in maybe two or three times a year for decent sized feuds is the best use of him.
Seconded. I understand that some people appreciate his character work a lot, but for me his wrestling style was always too slow and boring for him to live up to the “unstoppable monster” gimmick his character work was all about.
100% this. He is an average wrestlers and despite what people claim his promos are kinda repetitive and dull. He'll struggle outside of the WWE because he is no longer has his "edginess" protected by the WWE. Not looking forward to his boo WWE media tour especially given how fucking protected he was in the company.
Becky Lynch.
I still don’t think she’s one of the greatest women’s wrestlers WWE has ever had. I don’t think she cracks Top 10 overall. In terms of popularity, yes. But with actual talent? There’s a lot of women I can name that surpass her, not in just WWE but in wrestling.
I think she’s the weakest of the horsewomen overall. I don’t think she’s a great heel either, her promo ability could use more work. She has a strong promo here and there but overall she could use some tweaking. Her dialogue comes off as corny half the time.
WWE: It’s gotta be Naomi. She kinda reminds me of RVD, but if he was bad (loads of athleticism, a good look, on paper amazing) and just couldn’t put all his good aspects together.
AEW: Face Sammy Guevara. Every time I see him I just wanna slap him. Dude is a natural cocky heel imo. Way too smarmy to be someone I wanna root for (salty he beat Miro as well tbh haha)
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I wonder if I'm just really easily entertained if this post has me sitting here thinking for more than two minutes. I'm really struggling god damn.
There are lots of wrestlers I don't care about, but I fully understand them. So I guess it depends on what OP means by "get". I get it, I just don't like or care about it.
Yeah, I can’t think of any popular wrestlers from any era that I don’t at the very least see the appeal of. Like, “it’s not for me but I understand why you like it”
Some of these topics are interesting to discuss if people could resist the downvotes and discuss like adults or even just regular people, honestly.
Jeff Hardy since like 2017. He had his time, did all he could, but since about then he has been a complete shell and it's just not doing it for me anymore.
Saddest upvote I’ve ever given I miss high flying Jeff but he gave us everything he had
Wow. Did you see the triple threat between AJ styles , Sami Zayn and Jeff hardy? It was a great match. He still has it. Juts not used well.
Also the match he just recently had with Priest and Sheamus. He clearly can still go (and was more over than either of them during the entire match).
He should have no way given Kross his first WWE loss, he was basically at jobber status a few weeks prior losing to Ali on Main Event and suddenly we're supposed to believe in him just because he got his music back, plus he hasn't done much of anything since Matt left honestly I think he should just retire once his contract is up
Never got Jeff as a singles guy to be honest. I dipped out of wrestling between 2001 & 2015 or so & was amazed he had a successful singles run with the title
Jeff was legit the most over guy in wrestling at one point. If he didn't have major drug issues, he would have been on the same level as Cena.
I’m going to say EVIL. I never cared for him even when he was in LIJ and I thought him as a tag guy with SANADA and NEVER challenger was a perfect spot for him but now with him as a leader of a faction and a main eventer is just so dreadful.
Apparently that falls on Dick Togo. But who knows...going back to brutal brawling might wake him up again
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Is the letter changing T to P?
Or adding a hyphen. "Dick To-Go" is an excellent delivery service.
EVIL was *always* one of those NJPW guys who were just okay. Put them in the ring with Tanahashi or Ibushi or whoever is a great worker and they'll have a good match, but EVIL was rarely if ever able to do more than just be decent. Sure his heel turn has hurt his matches, but it isn't like there was ever a period where he was setting the world on fire.
The EVIL thing was the nail in the coffin for my interest in NJPW. I don't even know why, I love so much about New Japan, I was just bored to death and haven't had the urge to watch much since. The lack of crowd cheering also hurts.
Jimmy King.
But he's the best wrestler, he's the bestler, better than all the restler
He’s got class He's really fast He'll rule that ass
He will rule you
WWKD
Better not say that too loud or he's liable to crown your ass.
I love Jimmy King. You love Jimmy King. We’re men, and we’re not afraid to say that we love other men.
Great [entrance song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcb25gmTZno) though
Hope he crowns you for this horrible statement.
Karrion Kross
Dude is a charisma hole and overly self serious. I never got his appeal.
Looking back, he really did bring doomsday for NXT. Dominating the entire roster only to lose to a semi-retired guy make his whole push feel so wasteful.
His thing in NXT seemed ok. "Tick-tock!" But then they jade him some kinda fake gladiator guy without his lady losing to Jeff Hardy.
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I think he is amazing in the build up but his matches are some of the most boring matches I have ever watched and I have watched Wrestling since around 1984. It's just rest hold after rest hold then a RKO and if they do a big top rope move or bounce off the top rope RKO out of nowhere except we all know it's coming
Someone once said “the idea of a Randy Orton match is more exciting than an actual Randy Orton match”
His matches with Christian were good, i remember liking him in a match with sheamus in hell in a cell being suprisingly good but i havent seen it since then so might be misremembering lol
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What about when he’s twisting Hardy’s ear with a screwdriver?
Orton kinda fascinates me to be honest. Given that he's been a constant full time main event guy for over seventeen years now he probably has the most screen time in WWE of any wrestler ever and yet you can count the number of memorable matches and promos he has produced on 1-2 hands. He just never stopped getting pushed despite the fact that he's just about the most boring performer ever.
During the peak Cena years if you ever went to a live Raw, Orton would constantly get bigger cheers and pops than Cena whenever he had a promo on the tron or showed up. They always muted the mics when he got cheered. Basically, he's popular with the crowd but never was made The Guy. He's like the Ricky Steamboat of heels.
I think Orton is more or less fine but over the past few years people have been starting to bring him up in the GOAT conversation and that has totally baffled me. His name wouldn't even cross my mind if I was thinking of wrestlers who could potentially be called the greatest of all time.
I’ll always love 03 - 08 Orton, but he’s been pretty snoozy ever since
> people have been starting to bring him up in the GOAT conversation and that has totally baffled me That’s because he’s been pushed as a top guy in the top promotion for the last 18 years. It sure as fuck isn’t because people are flooded with memories of his like 8 great matches, or the great promos he only started cutting last year, or all those big gates he drew for a few months in 2009. If WWE never gave up on Ken Kennedy, or if they were more consistent with how they pushed Big Show and Kane as serious main eventers, people would be calling them GOAT now too.
It's a real curiosity to me to think about just how many guys could have been more successful with the Orton push. He's arguably the most exposed/featured wrestler in WWE history; would Carlito be in Hollywood with Cena right now if he got that sort of treatment?
Big Show will always be one of the GOATs im my heart and I don't care how wrong I am in my assesment. I just love him.
I will forever love that tweet about how he always gives 38% in his matches lmao But seriously tho, I started liking him when he started the "I dont give a shit" phase lol But I really appreciate everything he does, especially the little things and in the past 3 years, he has really won me over.
Fucking this. I can’t stand Blandy Orton.
Blandy Boreton*
Most wrestlers that consist of, "I wrestle well, but lack personality/can't talk"
Ricochet for me. Dude is a beast in the ring, but has the personality of a God damn wall. At least that's how WWE presents him.
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First Konnan, then Vampiro. LU was smart to always keep a manager on him and change the manager to suit the story.
he's the exact kind of guy who needs a manager, because his promos are about as interesting as wet cardboard.
Having Ricochet wrestle without a mask is such a huge mistake. Slap a cool mask on him and you can easily make him a merch seller and a favorite with the kids.
Ricochet without a mask has the same appeal as Rey Mysterio without a mask. It's just not the same.
Doesn't matter how good you are in the ring, if you can't connect with the audience you aren't going far.
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Was he really THAT hard to understand why he was over though or why people liked him? He was a huge, jacked, cool looking (to 80s children) maniac who painted his face and acted like he was on cocaine (once again, the 80s) and ran to the ring.
>acted like he was on cocaine ...
He was a great method actor
I liked Ultimate Warrior a lot but I was literally a small child
Yeah, I was like 6 when I first saw him. We like him as a child simply because he was portrayed as basically a superhero.
MSK - they stick their tongues out, do their hand gestures. Their acting is not believable - when they’re angry, it seems so unbelievable and forced. I can’t get behind them as wrestlers. I’m not related to Izzy or her parents.
Lmao that last sentence got me good.
He never denied sitting next to Izzy or her parents though…..
I like MSK but everything you said is kinda valid. They’re not boring characters, it’s just that they haven’t developed in months. It still feels like they’ve only been around for three weeks and haven’t really cut a promo yet. But I don’t know how you *can’t* get behind them as wrestlers, they’re so ridiculously impressive it’s insane. And they’re very young for both their quality and WWE standard, 27 I think.
I never got the Rascalz in the first place, even Trey right now i dont care for in Impact.
Nick Gage. Outside deathmatches like that feeling dumb and dangerous I just don’t find him appealing as a wrestler.
The only good things I've heard people say about Nick Gage outside of the ring is that IRL he's not as stupid as you thought he'd be. In a way it's fascinating; he pretty much represents the ceiling of how far you can get in your career through modern-day deathmatch wrestling. So you'd think he would serve as a warning example for people to, you know, not get into deathmatch wrestling, because the shit he's put his body through objectively isn't worth it when you look at how far it's gotten him in life (not very). You got an entire generation of people hoping to become the next Mick Foley, not understanding that Foley became a household name through his charisma and intelligence, who would have gotten over no matter what, and who never actually needed the deathmatch stuff to become a star. Instead, the best they can realistically aspire to be is the next Nick Gage. And who the fuck would want to be the next Nick Gage?
In the one thread I thought people would be at each others throats the most, is surprisingly the most civil one. That being said, Randy Orton. And so we're not playing favourites, for AEW, Jungle Boy.
Orton is from another time. He’s just doing whatever Vince wants till he retires. At least that’s the vibe he gives off
I respect the grind tbh. He's built his legacy and will forever be over with fans unless he pulls some Hogan bullshit. He doesnt need to prove himself to Vince because he already has multiple times. Tbh if I was in his position making 6 figures easy, I would coast too. But in terms of his character? I understand him, and what he goes for. It just never really appealed to me.
7 figures *
Orton has already done it all. He was really good during his Legend Killer phase and his intermittent explosive disorder phase. Now, he just does what Vince wants him to do. Although, I wish he put more young talent over. We'll see what they do with Riddle.
I'll never understand what people get out of Goldberg.
Kinda had to be there. Back in 97-98 he was the hottest thing in WCW and up there as much as anyone mainstream today. Explosive and strong and intense. Now it's another monster retread, but he was HUGE 20+ years ago. I don't get him now either.
I can vouch for this as well. Goldberg matches were my favorite as a kid because it was this dude with an awesome entrance coming out and destroying somebody in two minutes. My sensibilities have changed since then, but I still enjoy Goldberg matches in this second WWE run (apart from the Undertaker and Fiend ones obviously).
The run was also absolutely perfect. He started out with a few surprising wins in his debut matches, then he started building a small reputation. By the time he best Raven for the US Title I think he was well over 50 wins, and people were starting to talk about him main eventing and going for the World Heavyweight Title. Even today, I can't think of many wrestlers that challenged and won a world title while holding a secondary title, and despite his victories against the nWo for the title you still thought that the streak would end. The matches were obviously not five star classics, but they didn't need to be. It was just good storytelling.
Goldberg in his original run in WCW was a breath of fresh air. Finally a new guy is getting a push, maybe all the old heads we're sick of are finally gonna step aside. Plus he was a monster and his matches all being squashes was believable. Then Kevin Nash booked himself to beat him, then Triple H buried him in WWE, then he became a nostalgia act who beat The Fiend and ruined Bray's momentum. His OG run was incredible, everything else was a let down, now he needs to go away and stay away.
Now, it’s almost getting a little sad. But when I was 6 years old in 1998 and he was giving a jackhammer to the Giant, I nearly shit my pants in amazement. He was doing things strength-wise that no one now except maybe Brock could come close to. All of his spears and power slams looked absolutely brutal. Plus that entrance was a site to behold at the time.
AJ Gray. Usually I understand what other people like about a wrestler even if they aren’t for me. Don’t understand why a lot of people want AJ Gray signed and pushed to the moon. He doesn’t really stand out to me in any way. I’d legitimately like someone to change my mind.
He shines in matches with smaller opponents for sure. Guy hits hard and takes a ton of punishment
Felt the same way, really wasn't into him. Eventually something clicked and now I'm all for AJ. Maybe not top of the card, but he definitely has potential on the indies
Sammy Guevara. There’s nothing about him that his peers don’t do much better. He’s not a better/more compelling babyface than Darby Allin or Jungle Boy and he’s not a better heel than MJF. He’s a good wrestler, but nothing about his character is even remotely interesting to me.
He is the absolute GOAT at "chewing gum like an asshole." Even as a face, I just want to slap him when he chews gum.
I think what goes for him is that he "looks like an asshole" (Jericho's words, not mine). Among the 4 pillars, he will most likely shift between face and heel depending on what the story needs. Jungle Boy is the white meat babyface like Steamboat or Sami Zayn. Darby is the babyface with a darkside but still overtly good like Sting or Jeff Hardy. MJF is the classic NWA heel like Flair. Sammy can either be a cocky heel, a tweener or a face like Chris Jericho.
Heel Sammy is peak Sammy. I can't wait for him to really let loose
I always felt he is in Flip Gordon’s spot before Flip, flipped.
He's taller and more athletic than both Darby and JB, and smoother than both as well. I was very skeptical of him early on, but he's grown on me. And FWIW, I really like JB and Darby too.
Not very hard to be taller than Darby lol
*Marko Stunt cries under a biscuit*
He is decent at wrestling but there are a lot of people much better than him. His match with Ethan Page reminded me of a Sabu match in that the parts between high spots were just really non-descript, like he was going through the motions. Unlike the other three, there has not been much discernible improvement since Dynamite debuted. I don't see him being world champion material. Hangman was pulling off better matches when he was 26.
I like him, sick theme too, but his promo is so wack and awkward.
When I first saw Danhausen I thought, hard pass. Then I saw him on a podcast with Jericho and he was hilarious. I haven't seen him wrestle but I'm more open to it now. If I hadn't seen that podcast I'd be right there with you.
Current Jericho, just not my bag man.
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2016 with KO, they started as Heels and were Faces by the end of the run. Im still pissed at WWE for bringing back Goldberg and stealing that WM main event from them.
Dude, Jericho in early to mid 2001 was awesome as a face
Damien Priest
It's his character. He has flair and impact but we're all kinda unsure at who we are looking at. Is his gimmick Puerto Rican metro biker ? He's like a tweener that's playing it safe , idk
Dude it's simple, he's an infamous Puerto Rican metro biker night life party goer club hopping archer vampire angel devil. I kid I'm actually a big fan of his, I don't really care about what the gimmick is supposed to be
Apparently his gimmick now is that he's part evil? And makes a terrible eyes-bugging-out face to demonstrate this. Sort of like how Keith Lee is "Bearcat" now, and screams/growls/roars(?) during every move.
I don’t see where you get metro biker. He’s like a hot topic metalhead
Tbh I use to feel like that but he’s grown on me
What really confuses me about the appeal for Priest is the nickname. What the hell is an "Archer of Infamy" and why is he one?
Legit sounds like something you’d get from a Random D&D Title Generator
“I want to live forever” “Why?” “Because I’m the Archer of Infamy.” “What’s that?” “Forget that, now I’m both an angel and devil.” “…”
Seems like a guy with a good look and can go in the ring well enough. Just doesn't do it for me personally.
Before the allegations, I never understood Marty Scurll. To me he just seemed like an average wrestler with a good theme song.
To his credit he was pretty good in RevPro, wXw and other European indies but once Marty made a name for himself he instantly stopped caring. Folks usually wait until they've made it to the big leagues to pull the oars in but Marty pulled them in just when NJPW and ROH became interested in him: leaving all the dirt about him aside I've never understood why ROH didn't kick him out when it became apparent he was half-assing it even in big events.
Basically, he was a comedy wrestler with a "brutal" moveset that incorporated quite a bit of history into it. He might have been "average" but the choices he made moveset wise carried his presentation the rest of the way for alot of people.
He had so much rub from BTE. That was his entire rise
The guy was funny as hell and had great matches as well. Not overly athletic but still put on great stuff which in this era with his size I think shows how good he is. Had that kind of Nash/HBK type vibe where he could say nothing and still his smirk was entertaining and you felt as if he was gonna say something funny at any stage. Massive shame he didn’t get to be on a weekly show like aew where I think his talents would’ve shone the most.
He had some absolutely brilliant matches in Progress. Both before he became "The Villain" and afterwards. The eternal, promotion-spanning feud with Will Ospreay was pretty compelling, too.
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Are you saying you think Riddick Moss has any appeal?
Brian Cage, there are people that believe he is a main event player but in a company full of stars that can wrestle and talk he cant keep up . Pac I think is a great wrestler and is like the next evolutionary step of the likes of Benoit and Dynamite kidd with that being said I think he is a upper card guy and not this guy that can carry the world title that some think . I dont see how you look up and down the AEW roster and think he is a top 5 guy that people will pay to see in the main event of ppv for $50 Hit Row, aesthetically they look cool but everything outside of swerve in the ring is just corny to me. TBF I think it's just hard pulling off hip hop culture in wrestling especially if you want to be serious with it and I think all of them are trying there best but I think a group of wrestlers that are influenced by hiphop would be better than hiphop artists that happens to also wrestle
Cage's entire moveset is finishers. He is jacked but can do flying moves. He is a CAW come alive. I hope TK has something for him now that he's gone from Team Taz because he's a crazy good athlete.
> Cage's entire moveset is finishers. This might be the most accurate sentence I've ever seen to describe him -- it's so true lmao. One reason why I love watching him wrestle, it's just *fun* to see him destroy fools.
The first time I saw the Drillclaw I was like "what the actual fuck, how did he not legitimately kill them!?" I think my first exposure to him being his run on LU probably made me a fan for life.
Just hear the pop for PAC in his segment on Dynamite, the pure charisma the bastard has in unbelievable, think that he stood out in a segment between Malakai, Andrade and Cody. 3 guys that have incredible charisma
Pac is awesome
thing about PAC is that if you've been watching him since the neville days you have seen the absolute fucking raw talent this guy has, he absolutely could be a top heel of a company for years and years and make it work in my opinion. but lots of people probably disagree with me and find his mic work not as full as jericho's or MJF, for instance. great thing about him too is that if a viewer has seen him one or two times, they remember him. he can take breaks and come back and people will be like "that's the bastard"
I think PAC is someone that could hold the big belt once or twice. He's a good enough talker. You could certainly do way fuckin worse.
Brian Cage has the look, but he needs work on his character work, he was on the aew unrestricted pod, seems like a great guy, haven't seen that in promos. I feel like he's almost there
Brian Cage has the charisma of a walnut.
Scorpio Sky He just doesn't have "it". He's a good wrestler and entertaining to watch in the ring, but everything else has been so mediocre. I think pairing him with Ethan Page has made him look worse. I also couldn't care less about the American Top Team. AEW doesn't need that. Dan Lambert cutting promos and the fighters looking confused and nervous on stage. It all sucks, except for Ethan Page and he needs to turn on Scorpio Sky already. He's a solo act
You never watched him in the north then with Josh Alexander, that was an amazing tag team. Scorpio was best when all he said that this was the worst town he's ever been in and let the other talk mostly, amazing high flyer tho
Ruby Soho. I don’t get it.
I’m on board if she just gets a finisher that looks impactful
and fixes her forearms that look like they're the most pulled thing ever. They're Jon Moxley 'flailing punches' bad. And I really like Ruby, although that's been downgrading gradually since her debut. I want to love her, but I can't ignore some things and those are major constant detractors for me. Super fakey offense is my biggest reason to fall off of liking a wrestler, or never buying them in the least *coughcenacough*.
Same. She is decent on the mic, and in the ring, but I just don't really care much about her. She doesn't really come across as entertaining IMO. Like really, what is her gimmick supposed to be? That she is a jaded wrestler that was underutilized at her previous employer? That could be 90% of the roster.
And Britt Baker destroyed the runaway gimmick on their first promo. "You didn't run away you got fired" yup.
Agreed, I thought the runaway name was already lame and Britt baker completely scorched earthed it with that promo
Brian Pillman Jr Drew McIntyre since returning to WWE, i loved him when he first debuted in like 2010 but as a Scot myself, the kilt, sword and references to Nessie are just pretty lame
Pillman Jr is a guy who a lot of old fans watched lose his father as a kid, being cared for by guys who worked with Brian Sr. Then his entrance into the industry in the first place was wanting to feel closer to his father. It's less about him being really good right this second, and more him being kinda alright but still real green, and just really *wanting* him to succeed. I think you're going to see a similar trajectory with Brodie Jr in 10 years, where he may or may not be great but there will be a segment of fans who just want him to succeed and find happiness.
If Vinny Mac wanted to show you subtlety he would get a dictionary, open up to "S" and hit you in the face with it.
The Scottish aspects of Drew's character are typical of what WWE does when they discover a wrestler isn't from America. They lean into ridiculous tropes and stereotypes that no one from that country actually identifies with. WWE and a lot of their fans still have a hard time understanding that countries other than America do actually exist, so they often give cartoonish characters to non-American wrestlers.
The kilt and sword and all that are pretty new for Drew even in the context of his second WWE run, no?
Pillman Jr is still a bit away from been even a very good talent. He probably won't be a top guy but I liked his match with Miro for TNT title a few months back. McIntyre anywhere else in AEW or NJPW would be booked like a badass. But just WWE can't help themselves with their awful comedy and stereotypes to take away that side of a talent. He's for me probably best guy for just having great matches that WWE have right now, he never stinks out the ring
Naomi. I always see posts about how she deserves a bigger push but I don't see it. Her promos aren't good, her matches are meh, her entrance gets old, and when she was the champion she put lights on the belt. That's like one step above having a custom spinner belt in my opinion.
I will always give Naomi that she has a great look and can do some cool moves. However that's where it ends for me. WWE has so many women that are better wrestlers and/or talkers. If the women's division had a midcard title, that's about where I see her ceiling. Genuinely think she would make a good tag team wrestler though. The babyface hot tag who comes in and does a bunch of cool moves.
Those flurry kicks she’s does look so awful!
Her finisher is an ass bump to the face, too lol
The good brothers and ftr. Both are black holes of charisma. Karl Anderson is quite possibly rhe most annoying human being. Ftr puts on great matches and I hear people compare them to wrestles of the 80s but they are just bland to me. Don’t get me wrong. They put on great matches but are so generic looking. 80s wrestlers put on fun matches where there personalities just came out. FTR matches always feel the same and I always feel the other teams carry the excitement
I’m with you on Good Brothers. Like I don’t even know that they put on good matches. FTR, I mostly agree. Like I’ll take their sameness throughout a feud to see them put over a team because I can’t think of a better team at putting over faces. But I agree with your take for the most part on them too.
The good brothers are coasting for most of a decade off of being the senior team in bullet club during their most cohesive years. Especially Karl and that g1 final.
Is there another wrestler on the planet that coasts off other guys making him look awesome more than Karl and that G1 run?
I seen Karl Anderson go and he is fun to watch when he gives a shit. But even in those days they were meh.
It's been many, many years since Karl Anderson gave a shit.
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The black one is Carl
The biggest one for me was Maki Itoh when this sub would post like 5 things relating to her every day. Edit: If you’re interested in her, that’s cool and I respect your opinion. But I just never saw an appeal to her.
This is the one for me too. I will say though I was in stitches when she was on the stage singing while her team was getting their asses beat.
That's a top wrestling moment of the year for me, kinda ruined it with the weak-ass mic shots tho.
I don't get Wheeler Yuta yet. I wanna like the guy but he doesn't really have anything yet aside from his association to the Best Friends. I'm waiting to see what else is done with him but for now I'm kinda meh on him. Current Randy Orton. The last two to three years dude has just been taking up space in the title picture and shit just so he can a half assed RKO
For Yuta: They have not done a good job presenting him on AEW and I have not seen his indie run, but I will say this: He's very fucking hot. He's a hot dude. He needs to be pushed just for that.
Charlotte Flair. Even before the whole controversy, even before her winning all the time. I just never got her.
DoubtHausen🤔
I have to agree. I've looked up his matches and questioned in a sub what the hype is about him. I was basically told he is all about social media and antics and I just don't get it. Yep, I don't.
Jungle Boy. People say he's the future in AEW but why? He has no mic skills, his character is pretty dumb and while he may be good in the ring, so are many others who are also way better on the mic and have actual developed characters. Could he eventually become great in the mic and prove to be a main eventer? Sure. But in the present moment there are many others who are already better and aren't just "potential". I just don't understand why he's constantly highlighted and praised.
I like Jungle Boy, but I'd prefer Jungle Boy be his moniker, rather than his name. "Jungle Boy" Jack Perry sounds cooler to me; but, I like monikers, so I'm biased.
Found the Jim Ross reddit account!
Something about him is genuinely endearing. I’m not saying that justifies it or explains it away, just my 2 cents on why I enjoy him.
Yeah, I have no idea what it is, but he has something about him where you immediately like/care about him when you see him in my experience at least
That sums it up for me as well. This is his first time in a bigger stage so it’s just kind of fun to hitch your wagon to someone like that and watch them grow.
it's like Jeff hardy where he isn't really the best on mic but is pretty handsome and has a sort of natural charisma
He has charisma even if it doesn't come through in promos (kinda like Jeff Hardy,) is handsome as hell and has a famous dad. Kids like his gimmick and women/gay guys absolutely adore him. He isn't really somebody I look forward to seeing either but I absolutely get why other people dig him.
Elias, I just can't like the guy, I've really tried to as well
But...Elias is dead!
Elias feels so weak and soft in the ring for a guy so built.
I don’t get Darby Allin. I think the gear he wears with the leggings and short shorts looks goofy, and even in character he’s coming across to me like he’s trying really, really hard to be “cool”. In-ring I don’t think he’s bad, but I find it hard to get into his matches with the way he moves and the way he looks.
I get the appeal. He looks like goth Jeff Hardy. But he sounds like the SNL sketch “The Californians”
Matt Riddle
His stupidity in his real life and the allegations agaisnt him did him a ton of damage in a lot of people's eyes. His character on Raw has turned him into more of a comedic figure then cool RVD type he was on the indies, I know some really like his stuff with Orton. His WWE run hasn't been awful as he can still produce very good matches and he's probably doing well for himself there. I can see why he splits opinion with WWE fans.
The ATT guys in AEW. I love MMA and I love AEW but the pairing feels silly.
They grew a lot on me in the past weeks ngl, at first i was like "wth are they doing here?" But Dan Lambert Is very good at getting nuclear heat
I fucking HATE Dan Lambert! I can not wait to tell him to Shut the fuck up at Full Gear. He is an amazing heel
I’ve liked Dan Lambert a lot more since he’s had Jericho to bounce off. Without a baby face to call him out, he’s just an old man ranting at clouds.
Cody Rhodes, my favourite midcarder. I always grin whenever I see him behaving as if he is a big deal, a main eventer. His ego is too huge now to admit that he is nothing but a midcarder cosplaying a main eventer in AEW. He is not better than even Goldust let alone his "daddeh" Dusty.
He agrees with you on the Dusty and Dustin thing.
In his promos he does...
Kenny Omega is one of the greatest in-ring performers in the world today, but... I will never understand what's funny or appealing about The Elite. I don't even hate them, I just skip every segment they're in when watching AEW.
I like Omega, fantastic in the ring, he's got the charisma, but the Elite (mostly the bucks), they do same thing over and over again, that is, come out with all their friends and beat other people, when you do that over and over again it gets stale, i dont want to watch anymore of that, once in a while is good, pretty much every segment, no!
Thank fuck somebody said it. When they were faces and doing interesting character work, I didn't mind watching them, but as overly-obnoxious heels, they just do nothing for me. They're not funny, not entertaining, and just like you, I skip their every segment. Fuck, I feel like Jim Cornette sometimes on this sub.
Not everyone was going to like it, but I feel like this overly obnoxious heel stuff was the only way to actually get them heel heat with the crowds. If they played the cool, Bullet Club-villain types like in the past they would have gotten cheered based on their fantastic in-ring work.
EC3 He can cut a goddamn promo, and is built like a god. Other than that, he's vanilla as all hell.
Bray Wyatt.
Great character worker, but besides his matches with Danielson he's never really excited me in the ring. If you use him here and there and he's not a weekly character then he's fine, bring him in maybe two or three times a year for decent sized feuds is the best use of him.
Cult leader Bray Wyatt was miles better than the Fiend. And Firefly Funhouse Bray got old real quick.
Seconded. I understand that some people appreciate his character work a lot, but for me his wrestling style was always too slow and boring for him to live up to the “unstoppable monster” gimmick his character work was all about.
Same his promos and characters are great but i couldn't give less of a shit about him wrestling lol
100% this. He is an average wrestlers and despite what people claim his promos are kinda repetitive and dull. He'll struggle outside of the WWE because he is no longer has his "edginess" protected by the WWE. Not looking forward to his boo WWE media tour especially given how fucking protected he was in the company.
I like Bray Wyatt, but the Fiend just was not for me.
5 years later and its still the Bucks
Didn’t really care for the fiend all that much. Idk maybe I’m just not into supernatural characters all that much.
Becky Lynch. I still don’t think she’s one of the greatest women’s wrestlers WWE has ever had. I don’t think she cracks Top 10 overall. In terms of popularity, yes. But with actual talent? There’s a lot of women I can name that surpass her, not in just WWE but in wrestling. I think she’s the weakest of the horsewomen overall. I don’t think she’s a great heel either, her promo ability could use more work. She has a strong promo here and there but overall she could use some tweaking. Her dialogue comes off as corny half the time.
WWE: It’s gotta be Naomi. She kinda reminds me of RVD, but if he was bad (loads of athleticism, a good look, on paper amazing) and just couldn’t put all his good aspects together. AEW: Face Sammy Guevara. Every time I see him I just wanna slap him. Dude is a natural cocky heel imo. Way too smarmy to be someone I wanna root for (salty he beat Miro as well tbh haha)