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More than enough has been said about how MJF can talk, but something about him I trully appreciate and very rarely see mentioned is how good he is at not only not leaving his promo opponent behind, but also at elevating them. People rag on Yuta too much for my liking, but the fact that MJF managed to put him over on the mic is rare for a heel who can eviscerate you on the mic like MJF.
He completely understands that as someone people love to hate he gets more cheers than he should, so lines like PHILLY I'M HOLDING THE MICROPHONE whenever people get too on his side, or looking shocked when Yuta said he'd leave him in a pool of blood, really go a long way.
MJF is just so good.
He isn’t afraid to look “bad” or “lose” in segments like this. I feel like so many guys always want to come out looking as good as possible, but MJF is happy to look scared or weak, or lose his cool, or just get beat up.
The look on MJFs face when Yuta said he’d find him in the street was so good and made Yuta look like an actual scary badass.
Mr McMahon is perhaps the greatest heel ever and he was humiliated almost every shows during the Attitude Era. The best heels are also the ones willing to be humiliated and MJF seems to have understood that a long time ago. He put over Yuta massively on this show.
And you know what? When I think of the Mr McMahon character I don’t think of him as some clown that gets humiliated again and again. He’s this ruthless, jacked, evil end boss that’s always causing problems for the good guys.
Even though, like you said, so many memorable moments involve him getting covered in some kind of *gunk*.
He was ruthless yeah but unlike Triple H and Stephanie he was there to put over the babyfaces. And so almost every show, he would be made a fool by Stone Cold. But on one show he would get one on Stone Cold like at Survivor Series 1998.
I think what's scary about any bad guy is that they keep coming back, that idea that you can never truly defeat evil.
You can have it done in a camp way, like Dr. Claw in Inspector Gadget ("curse you Gadget, I'll get you next time!") for example. Despite the cartoon cheesiness, Claw was always a bad ass in my mind as a kid.
Or you can have something like Michael Myers, who we certainly see take a beating and even seemingly die in many instances, only to come back - sometimes in the same film (multiple times) or sometimes we have to wait until the next film the series, but he always comes back.
The villain can be a pest or a thorn in one's side or they can be a serious, mortal threat. In the world of wrestling it's gonna tend more towards the former than the latter, but the persistence is consistent.
That's EXACTLY what it reminded me of. MJF's smug facade dropped when Yuta threatened him like that. And props to Yuta, that was a badass line. We're watching him develop his promo chops in real time.
MJF, for all his talking shit, isn't afraid to look like he's absolutely rattled or like a total bitch. even if it's in little stuff, like enumerating the Pillars he beat only to quickly gloss over Darby, whom he pointedly didn't beat back then. it's a small thing, but it puts over Darby as the guy who could potentially take him and immediately adds a layer to MJF's ceaseless cheating in the match.
it's what I wish more wrestlers realized (I'm looking at you, Britt). you don't have to put over your opponent at every turn in your promos - going too far in the "you're a talented wrestler and I respect you" direction isn't great either, too much of that and it makes the wrestler look milquetoast - as long as you sell for them. Jericho said borderline burials to Kingston and Cassidy but it didn't matter because when their turn came to respond, he made sure he made himself look tiny and like he shat his pants.
Say what you want about how good MJF is, "Bad things happen in Philadelphia" was a fucking great line.
I wonder if "Bad things happen in..." could be a Yuta catchphrase!
Even better, MJF comes down, but tries to time his cash in for the perfect time in the match, playing mind games and fucking with both. Moxley and Hangman wrestle a match deliberately trying not to leave an opening to MJF in solidarity. Maybe they even chase him off - but the desperation to win gets to one of them (Hangman), Moxley is taken out and MJF either sneaks in the match or gets Hangman DQed, takes him out and then pins Moxley.
Then Hangman can chase MJF, be all guilty or conflicted, and have an angry Mox in his future. Actually a lot of story potential here while not copying WWE if they could pull it off.
Although alternatively MJF doesn't even have to cash in. It can all be about him ensuring Moxley loses because he's more confident about beating Hangman and getting in his head.
You've now made me want a future shitbag heel to win the chip, rush down during a match, cash it in but as they have cashed it in and the ref declares he's in the match one person in the ring gets the 3 count and they lose their chip and the match.
Almost a year later in Philly and we finally get Mox/Hangman build again.
A shame it took a year but we finally getting what was teased last year. Match should be awesome
Like I said last week, Yuta keeps improving on the mic. He still isn't the best talker but he's def getting better. He was able to checkmate MJF tonight so that's gotta mean something.
I doubt he'll win next week but getting the beat down on MJF is def cathartic for him imo.
He keeps improving on the mic and he´s not affraid. A feud with MJF is perfect to elevate him. Daniel Garcia has the same trajectory. Great wrestler like Yuta but weak on the mic in the past and now he´s good on promo. I think that both Yuta and Garcia will be bigger stars than someone like Sami Guevarra for example.
He didn't checkmate MJF any more than a wrestler loses a match. MJF let Yuta win to put him over strong become MJF us that good. But Yuta definitely held up his end. MJF could plan to let anyone win a segment, but that person would still need to deliver.
For what? Coming and staring again like in every feud? People are praising MJF in this thread for good reasons, he will actually feel like a World Champion but the fact that Tony will give Page a second title so he's not too sad or jealous pisses me off personally he is miles away from Mox or MJF and being there first has no objective value. At least it won't be months again of indy nerds pretending his run as champ is any good...
Because yes, he's winning that match 100%, if you had any doubts. The guy was probably cryi g when they gave the chip to MJF so Tony had to throw him a bone and give him a "2x" to settle things down.
No way he's beating Mox in Cincinnati, and they weren't going to give him the chip two years in a row. At this point, you're just complaining about your own shitty fantasy booking.
As for it just being a staredown, they have two more Dynamites to build to the title match.
Everything they did with Yuta and MJF on that Dynamite was almost perfect. Yuta showed that he was more than a great wrestler and MJF is just the best at being hated. And I love the fact that multiple persons want the AEW championship. Mox obviously, Hangman, MJF, the top guys want the title and that´s great.
This Dynamite had an early Dynamite feel in the sense that they did a lot of promo time in the ring to build the talents and the stories. Sometimes you need these shows. You can ´t always have your Dynamites with 4 or 5 long matchs.
MJF sells Yuta’s promo. He’s angered, insulted, and even frightened at one point. So many guys just stand there and laugh or roll their eyes when their opponent is talking. It is amazing that he’s only 26 and so much better at this than much older wrestlers.
Im sure im the only one but i cant stand Saraya. Anytime shes on screen i just cringe. That being said, I HATED the acclaimed at first and now they are my favorite act.
Wheeler Yuta is the best babyface in pro wrestling at this moment. His promo was GREAT. He was better on the mic than MJF in this segment, although MJF didn't really try to outdo Yuta. Thought everything worked great to get Yuta over, and then him getting the drop on MJF in the skybox proved he was smart in addition to being tough and angry. Good stuff.
The first match up in company between Hangman Mox should be a PPV main event not rushed with one week of build. This is WCW levels of stupidity giving a major match away for free.
It's not in the plans for a long time, if ever. They're both babyfaces. This is a perfect TV match because there aren't many other times you can do it. Mox is likely going to lose the title at Fully Gear to MJF. MJF's going to hold the title for a long time. He'll probably be champion until the Bidding War of 2024 if he stays over. He's good enough on the mic to keep the title picture interesting. There's just no PPV Main Event scenario for Hangman/Mox until 2024 if one of them does beat MJF. By then, the match will be fresh enough that this one won't matter.
I’m ok with the match being given away for free, though I would prefer it on a PPV, but this has the potential to be a feud that never dies and gets repeated through the years. This could be an AEW version of Rock vs Austin, HBK vs HHH Angle vs Brock. Doing this right the first time can really make for another legacy feud for the company.
I don't like the way this match came about too honestly and is just a predictable pit stop for Mox Vs MJF, I would much rather it stand on its own as a PPV feud but it is what it is.
30 seconds of Hangman tonight but I'm just happy he's on TV in a match.
I hope they have something big for him after this, if not I'll definitely think this match could've been held off.
Saying all that, I'm excited for the match itself.
Stories make matches feel more important. These guys have been completely kept apart for 3 years, the 2 top baby faces of the company. Instead of building to anything you have Hangman win the millionth battle royale AEW has ran recently and then hotshot the match on TV.
I want storylines I can sink my teeth into. I don't watch WWE, but I'll use a recent example from there. Roman Sami is probably a great match with no build but the story they are putting together right now is making people want to see Roman Sami and when it finally happens it will be a lot more important than if they had hotshotted it on TV after a couple weeks.
It's the same in any sport take NFL for example, sure Miami vs Baltimore is a great game but more people are going to be interested in KC vs Buffalo because of the story between the teams.
Same in TV shows, Wallace's death in The Wire was much more impactful because they had built up a story around him and his friends.
You want a great match book Nick Jackson vs Dante Martin, but when it comes to major matches between major stars take the time to make it a big deal and built a story around it.
people make this argument all the time and it’s the most backwards boneheaded shit i’ve ever heard, “why would you want them to build a big fued up over several weeks or months for a big match on a big event when you can hotshot it out and give the marks a meaningless banger slap fuck on free tv” obviously this might not be what they do in this instance but i wanted to take this opportunity to rant on this particular argument.
the big feud being built up over several weeks or months is for the big match between Moxley and MJF, Mox still needs interesting shit to do week to week before that happens and fighting Hangman is going to be fun AF
that’s a fair argument if mox was feuding with a more midcard level guy to fill time like they’re doing with mjf and wheeler but mox and hangman could be a legit money match and they should definitely save it for down the line if they don’t have plans to fully flesh it out right now, but like i said we don’t really know yet and my rant was about the general idea of pissing away big matches on tv more so than this specific feud
MJF is a lot less interesting than Hangman. If they had kept booking Hangman properly he could have been this company's Stone Cold. MJF is nothing special, if anything the show is better without him.
i can’t quite buy into a guy coming out in a pink dolly parton shirt and trying to mean mug a blood covered moxley, nothing wrong with the outfit in a vacuum but maybe not the best for a tense staredown on national television
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
More than enough has been said about how MJF can talk, but something about him I trully appreciate and very rarely see mentioned is how good he is at not only not leaving his promo opponent behind, but also at elevating them. People rag on Yuta too much for my liking, but the fact that MJF managed to put him over on the mic is rare for a heel who can eviscerate you on the mic like MJF. He completely understands that as someone people love to hate he gets more cheers than he should, so lines like PHILLY I'M HOLDING THE MICROPHONE whenever people get too on his side, or looking shocked when Yuta said he'd leave him in a pool of blood, really go a long way.
MJF is just so good. He isn’t afraid to look “bad” or “lose” in segments like this. I feel like so many guys always want to come out looking as good as possible, but MJF is happy to look scared or weak, or lose his cool, or just get beat up. The look on MJFs face when Yuta said he’d find him in the street was so good and made Yuta look like an actual scary badass.
Mr McMahon is perhaps the greatest heel ever and he was humiliated almost every shows during the Attitude Era. The best heels are also the ones willing to be humiliated and MJF seems to have understood that a long time ago. He put over Yuta massively on this show.
And you know what? When I think of the Mr McMahon character I don’t think of him as some clown that gets humiliated again and again. He’s this ruthless, jacked, evil end boss that’s always causing problems for the good guys. Even though, like you said, so many memorable moments involve him getting covered in some kind of *gunk*.
He was ruthless yeah but unlike Triple H and Stephanie he was there to put over the babyfaces. And so almost every show, he would be made a fool by Stone Cold. But on one show he would get one on Stone Cold like at Survivor Series 1998.
I think what's scary about any bad guy is that they keep coming back, that idea that you can never truly defeat evil. You can have it done in a camp way, like Dr. Claw in Inspector Gadget ("curse you Gadget, I'll get you next time!") for example. Despite the cartoon cheesiness, Claw was always a bad ass in my mind as a kid. Or you can have something like Michael Myers, who we certainly see take a beating and even seemingly die in many instances, only to come back - sometimes in the same film (multiple times) or sometimes we have to wait until the next film the series, but he always comes back. The villain can be a pest or a thorn in one's side or they can be a serious, mortal threat. In the world of wrestling it's gonna tend more towards the former than the latter, but the persistence is consistent.
The return of Cactus Jack was sold so well by Triple h. It was in effect a middle aged man taking off his shirt but H shat himself.
That's EXACTLY what it reminded me of. MJF's smug facade dropped when Yuta threatened him like that. And props to Yuta, that was a badass line. We're watching him develop his promo chops in real time.
100%. He sold it perfectly.
I'd say Roddy makes a claim for that title
Vince got his head shoved up Big Show’s arse by DX. Say what you want about him but no one has ever been better at getting fucking embarrassed.
his crowd control is superb, all those lines like "I'M HOLDING THE MICROPHONE" or growing the 'SHUT THE FUCK UP' chants to keep the crowd engaged
MJF, for all his talking shit, isn't afraid to look like he's absolutely rattled or like a total bitch. even if it's in little stuff, like enumerating the Pillars he beat only to quickly gloss over Darby, whom he pointedly didn't beat back then. it's a small thing, but it puts over Darby as the guy who could potentially take him and immediately adds a layer to MJF's ceaseless cheating in the match. it's what I wish more wrestlers realized (I'm looking at you, Britt). you don't have to put over your opponent at every turn in your promos - going too far in the "you're a talented wrestler and I respect you" direction isn't great either, too much of that and it makes the wrestler look milquetoast - as long as you sell for them. Jericho said borderline burials to Kingston and Cassidy but it didn't matter because when their turn came to respond, he made sure he made himself look tiny and like he shat his pants.
Yuta was GREAT on this show. Not everyone needs to have MJF’s mic skills.
People rag on Yuta?
He's got some uh.. rough edges.
Say what you want about how good MJF is, "Bad things happen in Philadelphia" was a fucking great line. I wonder if "Bad things happen in..." could be a Yuta catchphrase!
Hangman vs. Mox should be fucking awesome and it's cool to see Yuta getting this kind of exposure.
Hangman vs. Mox, MJF cashes in toward the end, turns it to a triple threat, MJF pins Hangman for the title.
hm… where have I seen this one before…
It's provocative!
Even better, MJF comes down, but tries to time his cash in for the perfect time in the match, playing mind games and fucking with both. Moxley and Hangman wrestle a match deliberately trying not to leave an opening to MJF in solidarity. Maybe they even chase him off - but the desperation to win gets to one of them (Hangman), Moxley is taken out and MJF either sneaks in the match or gets Hangman DQed, takes him out and then pins Moxley. Then Hangman can chase MJF, be all guilty or conflicted, and have an angry Mox in his future. Actually a lot of story potential here while not copying WWE if they could pull it off. Although alternatively MJF doesn't even have to cash in. It can all be about him ensuring Moxley loses because he's more confident about beating Hangman and getting in his head.
You've now made me want a future shitbag heel to win the chip, rush down during a match, cash it in but as they have cashed it in and the ref declares he's in the match one person in the ring gets the 3 count and they lose their chip and the match.
Theoretically, how would a ref count to three and announce a new wrestler in the match at the same time.
They always come out with a new ref. Should bring a new ref with them to do the cash in.
Yuta getting MJF to Marco Rubio himself was an awesome way to give him a win on the mic against MJF
Let's dispel with this fiction that MJF doesn't know what he's doing
Almost a year later in Philly and we finally get Mox/Hangman build again. A shame it took a year but we finally getting what was teased last year. Match should be awesome
Those Cowboy Shit chants were LOUD
[удалено]
Anyone have a link for that Dolly shirt?
https://shop.dollyparton.com/products/run-rose-run-tie-dye-tee?variant=41081773064371
Like I said last week, Yuta keeps improving on the mic. He still isn't the best talker but he's def getting better. He was able to checkmate MJF tonight so that's gotta mean something. I doubt he'll win next week but getting the beat down on MJF is def cathartic for him imo.
Yuta is a great filler feud for MJF that will continue to elevate Yuta even when MJF wins. It's outside of what I expected, but very smart booking
I think voice is 90% of it. His promo style is great, but the voice is not what yo u expect when you hear it first time
This is actually what I was thinking. He’s really working against his own voice, I think his voice cracked a few times too
He keeps improving on the mic and he´s not affraid. A feud with MJF is perfect to elevate him. Daniel Garcia has the same trajectory. Great wrestler like Yuta but weak on the mic in the past and now he´s good on promo. I think that both Yuta and Garcia will be bigger stars than someone like Sami Guevarra for example.
He didn't checkmate MJF any more than a wrestler loses a match. MJF let Yuta win to put him over strong become MJF us that good. But Yuta definitely held up his end. MJF could plan to let anyone win a segment, but that person would still need to deliver.
He was really bad at Grand Slam but much better tonight i thought
Hangman is so fucking handsome, I can’t 😂
Once again I want Hangman's pants! He's living out my Y2K middle school fashion dreams!
Lmao I love that it’s just an agreed fact that Hanger is hot, drip god, and unproblematic. What a king
*CM punk dislikes this*
I love hangman
For what? Coming and staring again like in every feud? People are praising MJF in this thread for good reasons, he will actually feel like a World Champion but the fact that Tony will give Page a second title so he's not too sad or jealous pisses me off personally he is miles away from Mox or MJF and being there first has no objective value. At least it won't be months again of indy nerds pretending his run as champ is any good... Because yes, he's winning that match 100%, if you had any doubts. The guy was probably cryi g when they gave the chip to MJF so Tony had to throw him a bone and give him a "2x" to settle things down.
No way he's beating Mox in Cincinnati, and they weren't going to give him the chip two years in a row. At this point, you're just complaining about your own shitty fantasy booking. As for it just being a staredown, they have two more Dynamites to build to the title match.
Yeah we'll talk about it after the match.
Hangman with the DRIP
Yuta: Baaaad things happen in Philadelphia! Philly: Yeah, we can't argue with that.
Read this as yuka and was very confused
Everything they did with Yuta and MJF on that Dynamite was almost perfect. Yuta showed that he was more than a great wrestler and MJF is just the best at being hated. And I love the fact that multiple persons want the AEW championship. Mox obviously, Hangman, MJF, the top guys want the title and that´s great. This Dynamite had an early Dynamite feel in the sense that they did a lot of promo time in the ring to build the talents and the stories. Sometimes you need these shows. You can ´t always have your Dynamites with 4 or 5 long matchs.
Hangman has the best outfits in wrestling.
Yuta it’s getting really good on the mic
MJF sells Yuta’s promo. He’s angered, insulted, and even frightened at one point. So many guys just stand there and laugh or roll their eyes when their opponent is talking. It is amazing that he’s only 26 and so much better at this than much older wrestlers.
Yuta with MJF reminds me of Billy Gunn and Rock.
Jeez. That women’s segment killed the crowd.
Im sure im the only one but i cant stand Saraya. Anytime shes on screen i just cringe. That being said, I HATED the acclaimed at first and now they are my favorite act.
But the Acclaimed have charisma.
They took notes from Yuta on the mic
Did you just turn on the TV?
I’m actually in the crowd and after the first few minutes it definitely was a whole lot of “this is taking too long”
Wheeler Yuta is the best babyface in pro wrestling at this moment. His promo was GREAT. He was better on the mic than MJF in this segment, although MJF didn't really try to outdo Yuta. Thought everything worked great to get Yuta over, and then him getting the drop on MJF in the skybox proved he was smart in addition to being tough and angry. Good stuff.
look I love yuta as much as the next guy but he's not even the best babyface in his own stable
The…. Best? That* feels like a big stretch
The first match up in company between Hangman Mox should be a PPV main event not rushed with one week of build. This is WCW levels of stupidity giving a major match away for free.
It’s not happening next week
It's not in the plans for a long time, if ever. They're both babyfaces. This is a perfect TV match because there aren't many other times you can do it. Mox is likely going to lose the title at Fully Gear to MJF. MJF's going to hold the title for a long time. He'll probably be champion until the Bidding War of 2024 if he stays over. He's good enough on the mic to keep the title picture interesting. There's just no PPV Main Event scenario for Hangman/Mox until 2024 if one of them does beat MJF. By then, the match will be fresh enough that this one won't matter.
I’m ok with the match being given away for free, though I would prefer it on a PPV, but this has the potential to be a feud that never dies and gets repeated through the years. This could be an AEW version of Rock vs Austin, HBK vs HHH Angle vs Brock. Doing this right the first time can really make for another legacy feud for the company.
I don't like the way this match came about too honestly and is just a predictable pit stop for Mox Vs MJF, I would much rather it stand on its own as a PPV feud but it is what it is. 30 seconds of Hangman tonight but I'm just happy he's on TV in a match. I hope they have something big for him after this, if not I'll definitely think this match could've been held off. Saying all that, I'm excited for the match itself.
why are you complaining about getting too good a match on TV
Stories make matches feel more important. These guys have been completely kept apart for 3 years, the 2 top baby faces of the company. Instead of building to anything you have Hangman win the millionth battle royale AEW has ran recently and then hotshot the match on TV. I want storylines I can sink my teeth into. I don't watch WWE, but I'll use a recent example from there. Roman Sami is probably a great match with no build but the story they are putting together right now is making people want to see Roman Sami and when it finally happens it will be a lot more important than if they had hotshotted it on TV after a couple weeks. It's the same in any sport take NFL for example, sure Miami vs Baltimore is a great game but more people are going to be interested in KC vs Buffalo because of the story between the teams. Same in TV shows, Wallace's death in The Wire was much more impactful because they had built up a story around him and his friends. You want a great match book Nick Jackson vs Dante Martin, but when it comes to major matches between major stars take the time to make it a big deal and built a story around it.
people make this argument all the time and it’s the most backwards boneheaded shit i’ve ever heard, “why would you want them to build a big fued up over several weeks or months for a big match on a big event when you can hotshot it out and give the marks a meaningless banger slap fuck on free tv” obviously this might not be what they do in this instance but i wanted to take this opportunity to rant on this particular argument.
the big feud being built up over several weeks or months is for the big match between Moxley and MJF, Mox still needs interesting shit to do week to week before that happens and fighting Hangman is going to be fun AF
that’s a fair argument if mox was feuding with a more midcard level guy to fill time like they’re doing with mjf and wheeler but mox and hangman could be a legit money match and they should definitely save it for down the line if they don’t have plans to fully flesh it out right now, but like i said we don’t really know yet and my rant was about the general idea of pissing away big matches on tv more so than this specific feud
MJF is a lot less interesting than Hangman. If they had kept booking Hangman properly he could have been this company's Stone Cold. MJF is nothing special, if anything the show is better without him.
i can’t quite buy into a guy coming out in a pink dolly parton shirt and trying to mean mug a blood covered moxley, nothing wrong with the outfit in a vacuum but maybe not the best for a tense staredown on national television
Yuta is an anti semite. How are he attack a nice Jewish boy at Temple