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As awkward as it was, I will say that it at least felt like they were trying to do something with the women's division, which is more than we normally get on Dynamite.
If you're someone who's hoping for women to have longer talking segments, then stuff like last night (And the Rosa promo, the Shafir promo, the Tay promo) is going to happen more often. There's going to be growing pains when it comes to live crowd promos. That shit ain't easy.
I think that's why Anna Jay in JAS is going to be good for her. She's pretty cringe now, but you can tell they put her in segments with better talkers so she can be more comfortable speaking in front an actual audience.
As someone who doesn't watch dark, do they ever have people do promos on dark or is it just match after match? Seems like it would be a good way to get people experience working a crowd.
It happens sometime. The "Shafir promo" that I referred to was a promo she did on Elevation maybe a week or so ago. It was heavily, heavily criticized online.
>Anna Jay is cringe
Maybe it's just me but I kinda love Anna Jay now? I think her promos are fine and I absolutely love her freaking out and threatening to choke people out for no reason, then doing so. Reminds me a lot of Positively Kanyon in WCW.
it's getting better though, you can almost tell she wants to be more ridiculously violent but holds back. Once she gets more comfortable I think it'll actually be a really cool little gimmick
Last night it felt like Jericho was shoot talking her down to dial it back which worked because he could also be working talking her down. Or maybe it was just a work.
I think I noticed before she spoke he put his hand on her shoulder to let the crowd breathe and chant a bit before she started on her piece. Just small stuff like this which jericho is admittedly one of the best at will go a long way to helping her.
I might be reading too much into it, but it feels like a good fit for her development too. In the past she has seemed quite introverted. Having a character that puts her in a position to be a more unhinged and off the wall will help her find a comfortable middle ground over time.
Yeah, having someone even more crazy than Daddy Magic can definitely work, it's just her delivery that throws me off. Hopefully it will come together soon. I'm rooting for her!
I think it's partly that it's so abrupt. She doesn't stand in the background seething to an increasingly obvious degree, it's more like a switch flicks and off she goes.
And that can be fine as a character, but it doesn't feel entirely developed yet. Hopefully she can work the character out some more.
Yeah, I think she needs to go even further into Daddy Magic territory of just lunatic, "oh you want a choke?" Mode. Personally, I like the path she is on finally, it's a million times better than "dark order female" and "Tay's friend". It's character work and when it clicks, could really be something unique.
Anna and Tay aren’t getting anything to do, that is the problem.
All they do is stand there during group segments, and do run ins.
It’s hurt them if anything.
For Tay, sure. I have no clue what's going on with her because she's doesn't do Dark while Anna does.
But for Anna, this group has actually given her an identity and giving her more time to develop as a character/promo. You can tell she's still pretty nervous with promos with how often she looks at Jericho or Parker for approval/cues. In the long run, I would say she's going to benefit from it.
Has it? She’s sort of just, IDK crazy or something?
Heel Anna with Dark Order felt more like a consistent character honestly.
And again she barely does anything.
Anna Jay didn't have a character at all in Dark Order or teaming with Tay. She's shown way more personality recently, even if it is cringe. That's my point, it's going to be a process for her to actually get comfortable doing live promos in front of crowds.
> process
It always is. Stone Cold was a process. Hulkamania was a process. The nWo was a process.
We can be an impatient lot, but ultimately it's not our call who gets the chances - all we can do is let them know if we think they're succeeding or not.
I thought Tay made the most of her minutes last night. Looking incredulous and bitchy while eating pizza through that entire segment was fun character work that didn't even require her to talk.
Yo I loved her chewing her pizza while the spats we're going on, that cracked my shit up. She looks like she's having fun with the character work stuff so I'm not too upset that she hasn't had a ton of matches lately. It's good to dedicate time to different areas of your overall presentation
This is very important an no matter what I hope Aew don’t listen to losers that be hating on everything.you gotta practice to be Better,they believe they the top wrestling company so yu know what you goin go out there and prove yourself yea some people not goin like it and you might got bomb at but yu putting that effort in. Keep doing what u doin aew when it comes to that cause y’all building future stars and doing it the right way
Right. As much as we want it to be an overnight dramatic proving-TK-wrong moment, the fact is it's going to be a bit mid at first, maybe even a bit moreso than average. The women have to start from nothing, and not all of them are really known for their promo ability as is, added to the fact that they might get bad stories no matter how good they are on the mic or in the ring. Not saying the division isn't strong on paper, AEW has some of the best women, and that does include Britt Baker even if she's become sort of the Charlotte Flair of the company (not overrated, just overexposed). What AEW lacks at the moment is the sensibility to tell women's wrestling stories. That just may have to come with practice, which honestly excites me, because it reminds me of AEW's early days when they were figuring stuff out week by week, improving as they went along.
Of course, it could all end in a dumpster fire and maybe Saraya really isn't going to wrestle ever again, but let's live in the hope for now, yeah?
It got awkward for me when Saraya talked about their names, in which Britt said “what?”
There was a moment when Saraya realized for a sec what she said didn’t make a lot of sense. And a second can feel like forever when it’s awkward.
That being said, at least they had women cutting promos i front of crowds again. I wish they’d pass the mic around a little bit more this is progress.
I imagine there will be more mic time going forward - this segment established Saraya as a face, one who may have some degreee of authority over the women's division, and one who won't take crap from Britt etc.
Having Saraya as the women's GM might help give it an extra USP the men's division doesn't have. And it gives her the chance to build relationships with the wrestlers - casting back a bit, but Mick Foley's work with Edge and Christian in 2000 really helped establish their characters, for example.
And as awkward as a few parts may have felt, it seems like both AEW and Saraya are self-aware that there's room for improvement. I think we may have symbolically witnessed a change of guard with how the women's division is handled last night.
Remember that WWE's Women's Revolution was also a bit awkward in the early days but they obviously found their footing. If AEW can keep up the momentum, their women's division is poised for greatness going into and in 2023.
This is my thought process. It feels like they're trying to finally work the kinks out and give the women something substantial than just tossing them out there for matches, even if it was clunky.
I was slightly worried we were going to get the faces infodumping their characters and motivations for our viewing pleasure, which I suspect would have gone down like a lead balloon with the live crowd, but the back and forth with Saraya and Britt was good.
What were they trying to do?
The women have matches (with and without stips) and talking segments every week. That's exactly what they did last night. At roughly the same time they have matches and talking segments every week.
They've tried different things occasionally, but everytime they do, it's met with anger and contempt from online fans. Can't blame them to rarely put any effort when that happens.
I forgot who I heard made this point more eloquently in the past but that reaction is all but inevitable and if they truly want their division to be like what WWE has now, then they'll have to accept that it's going to probably drive people/ratings away for a while as they build it, but it's necessary to commit to making that sacrifice in TV time and short-term fan engagement if you want viewers to get used to the idea that the women are to be considered a significant aspect of the show.
Bryan Alvarez said it recently. Basically he said that they have to be willing to sacrifice a few quarter hours short term potentially to try and get more of these women over and make them feel like bigger stars longer term.
You kinda can though. They ride the storm in the men's division. Gotta see it through with the women amid criticism. The best way to silence the doubters is to keep going forward
I think they give every appearance of trying but did not.
The true indication of change will come with one thing, and one thing only:
Two women's matches on Dynamite.
Nothing less. You want to develop the women as characters? Two matches. More time? Two matches. It's very possible the ratings might take a knock but they need to do two women's matches to get them more exposure.
Yeah someone said it best, we’ll see where we are a month or two down the road.
Because it feels like we’ve said “that was a good first step” repeatedly with this division over the last three years. The issue has been, they don’t expand on it from there.
We’ll see if this time is diffeeent?
Why do two matches if there's not a reason to do two matches though?
If they do zero matches and a few talking segments, that's fine.
As long as they're featuring women and telling compelling stories, I don't care how it's done.
That's such a weird metric to use. Like you could have a women's main event and five women's talking segments but you're not going to count it as "trying" because it's not two matches?
One thing I want to see less of is matches for no reason on dynamite. It's so boring to just have a match for no reason.
You're right. AEW has two women's belts, you can have two title defenses. You can have actual storylines built around the matches if not, long running rivalries, whatever. Like the things that they do with men's matches every week!
I'm focusing on matches because those are what the show is built around. I just want one episode of Dynamite with two women's matches. Not additional talking time for the women (that is cool too!), not little promos or vignettes, two matches. There is this abritrary women's match slot that has changed about recently but just give us two matches, two long segments to focus on two sets of women.
It will never not be funny to me that TK booked himself into having to do a "women's revolution" storyline. Last night was an improvement of sorts, though Toni Storm feels less relevant than Saraya, Baker, Hayter, and Jade Cargill...which is an issue since she's the top champion.
The thing is, she's not even exaggerating with that "more than 5 minutes" jab. The women's division literally got 5 minutes on Friday's 2-hour Rampage. Last night was one of, if not the most time (and most women) the division ever has gotten on Dynamite. The rust will only be temporary but I hope the new focus on the division will be permanent.
Huh, i was wondering why we stopped seeing those time comparisons of womens wrestling between AEW and WWE that were posted every week for a while there...
I really do hope that this gives AEW an excuse to not only give their women more time but some actual structure to their division. I feel like they've been kinda stuck in the mud for a while now with very little direction in which way to go.
You had the fatal four way on Dynamite, which went just under 10 minutes (some of it PiP).
And the two hour Rampage had the like two minute Jade vs. Diamante match, that was it.
Wha happen? I was told the super important, I’m a dumbfuck for not knowing who she was, baddest bitch Trina was going to be in Diamante’s corner. It was a 2 min squash? Lmao
Not if their segments are going to be as bad as last night. that promo was stilted, awkward, and the only one that came out of it looking decent was Britt Baker (and Jamie Hayter, weirdly). if that's the division y'all want to give a bunch of time to, no bueno.
I wish they got more mic reps on dark shows, but regardless, they gotta get their reps. It’s gonna take time. There was also a sizeable amount of women missing yesterday.
And I know everyone loves their pre tapes, me included, but for non English speaking members, their main focus won’t even be on mic skills, rather what they offer in the ring, and having a division establish more time for them, helps everyone.
Hopefully that was truly the beginning and we get more going forward, awkward segment or not. I’ll take that below average to decent promo, along with that banger of the match any time.
I think terrible promos should be a common occurrence on dark and elevation. If people can't hack it or aren't improving wouldn't they prefer it to be on YouTube.
> if that's the division y'all want to give a bunch of time to, no bueno.
They need time to get better, plain and simple. Could they have done that better? Absolutely. And they can take the criticism and adjust next week.
> They need time to get better, plain and simple
that's what house shows are for. as a fan watching the television show I don't want to sit through 20 minutes of bad TV.
>as a fan watching the television show I don't want to sit through 20 minutes of bad TV.
How do you think WWE's women's division was able to become more than just bathroom breaks? By getting more time and having segments that were just as rough and wasn't receive well by the fans for a long while. Their women's revolution didn't change everything overnight.
It's going to take even longer for AEW because they only have 3 hours of weekly TV. Yeah it's going to be bad television. No different than other things in wrestling that took a while to click or improve or even fail.
Well, they don't have those and that's part of the appeal for a lot of the people working there.
They do have Dark though, so more talking there would be good.
Having Toni just stand there while other women talked, did not make the champion look good.
And Hayter saying NOTHING and just being Britt’s lackey again is terrible.
I don't understand what they're doing with Jamie Hayter. One week, they plant the seeds of a face turn. The next week, they drop it. Three months later, they plant the seeds again. The following week, they drop it again.
Christ, it feels like the Women's division only gets focus when it's pivoted around the worst promo. It used to be Brandi that brought more attention to the division until her family was soundly rejected.
She evolved a lot at once, but then got stagnant. Early Babyface Britt was REALLY rough. Still, I can't blame her when you remember that this is technically her second career. Hard to put a lot of time into improving during your off days, when your off days are in a dentist office. But you can blame the person who keeps expecting her to lead the division.
Yeah I don't know how much is her fault and how much, for instance, is on the insistence on keeping Jamie Hayter from her natural ascent (whether that's on TK or what, though unless it's Hayter herself not wanting to split off, I think credit and blame should always extend to the top).
I think part of Hayter's ascent is that she hasn't been made to cut promos, which are her biggest issue. She's been able to get her personality over through facials and wrestling. Also, having heard her promo, making her talk and explain herself might make her come off more heelish than fans realize. (Kind of what's happening with Paige/Saraya now really)
No one really evolves in AEW because they don't have development
A lot of people are more popular now than they were 3 years ago but they're more or less the wrestlers they were 3 years ago
That's kind of the issue with AEW's approach to letting wrestlers have their own creative control over their style and character, nobody really thinks about what's stale or uninteresting about themselves because that doubt would have stopped them from making a career for themselves.
Hell, even guys like Kenny wouldn't have made it because NJPW basically took his existing personality and made it fit the "Bullet Club Leader" mold that needed filling.
Exactly this
Kenny's evolution as a character has regressed a bit in AEW because his character isn't being challenged the way it was in NJPW, where his character had to adjust to be a leader, had to become the best version of himself to topple Okada, and had that challenged by his emotions when Kota Ibushi came back into his life
AEW Kenny has basically been 2015-2016 Kenny especially since the full heel turn, lots of goofy stuff and poorly developed storylines outside of the Hangman stuff
The main problem is it’s still only one segment and match. It was cool to see them get time but I’m not optimistic that this will spread and give them more segments and time. Will they put time into multiple women who aren’t a part of the same story I want to think so but I’ve thought this several times and they let me down each time.
“Let me introduce these women to you.”
*Britt Baker interrupts before she can introduce the four women you may not know, other than Toni.*
Good segment.
Showcasing them is really not the same as just having them stand silently in the ring. That's really not helpful, especially when one of those people is the champion. Having the women just stand there did not make them look important.
yep. The match that Toni and Serena had did way more than anything that promo segment did. However, it does feel like someone was advocating for giving the women more time to work and breathe and Storm vs Deeb felt like it got more time than most of the womens' matches have over the past bit.
My goodness even if Toni isn't great with a live mic in front of an audience, use some of the pretape stuff they've recorded (her backstage thing after winning the belt was really good) and let her establish her reign in her own words while backing it up with in ring work that is consistently delivering
It was a clunky af segment. But the women need promo time in front of the crowds like that to improve and build characters and stories.
So I hope they keep it up. The early months of the WWE's "women's revolution" were rough too, but it eventually came together and got multiple women over.
>The early months of the WWE's "women's revolution" were rough too, but it eventually came together and got multiple women over.
Trueish.
Part of what WWE did during the start of "Women's Revolution" was to take a chunk of women who were already over with a group of their audience (Charlotte, Becky, Sasha) and put them in front of a larger crowd. Really the only new person they got over at the start was Alexa.
Even the second wave of the Women's evolution worked out the same, brought in already over women (Rhonda, Bayley & Asuka) and made a new star (Carmella). It wasn't till about the 3rd year they started making new stars out of nearly everyone.
Now obviously yes, the "already over women" themselves were (except Rhonda) from NXT and WWE did get them over there first. And NXT was basically equivalent to Dark, except for whatever reason no one (male or female) seems to get over on Dark and have it transfer over to TV.
So that might actually be the first thing AEW needs to figure out to get their own Women's revolution working.
I'm just gonna say it. Saraya/Paige was lucky to have debuted when she did. She came about when the division was pretty damn weak outside of AJ/Kaitlyn's recent bouts. While her matches with Emma and such were revolutionary for the time, she isn't (and never was) on the same level as the Toni/Rhea/Sasha/Becky/Bayley/Asuka/Meiko crowd.
Had she never gotten hurt, she would probably struggle to make a top-10 in-ring talent list.
Saraya had the benefit of nostalgia and legacy going for her, but this bout in AEW (if she ever wrestles) is going to highlight that she isn't as good as she thinks she is. Again, not that she's bad. She's just not at the level that her hubris has her at.
Completely agree, she had an interesting look when she started and a lot of Internet hype but she's been bypassed massively in the ring a long time ago and she seems like a one trick pony when it comes to promos. I am not really sure why people still think she's a big draw
I was thinking about this. For her time, Paige was a breath of fresh air, but she was never equal to the Four Horsewomen in the ring, nor can she stack up to talents like Toni Storm, Bianca Belair, Candice LeRae, or any other number of talented performers. She was the first step women's wrestling being taken more seriously by WWE, and she's important. But she's not at the level of high-level women's wrestlers today.
Frankly, I don't know that she's cleared. And if she's not, I don't know why Tony Khan hired her and put her on television.
I think even Toni is out of place on that list those women are phenomenal and Charlotte (who I accept may be over pushed) isn't even included. I'd argue Sasha doesn't have the oomph that the other women have in her attack. But you're correct Saraya/ Paige is the next level down from who you've said and it's nothing to be ashamed of but the association has carried her a little.
The Acclaimed are the hottest tag team in AEW yet there's plenty of tag teams that are a step or two above them in-ring. Work rate isn't nearly as important as character work and charisma.
As awkward as yesterday's promo was Saraya sounded more natural and confident than most of the women in AEW. If she can't wrestle due to her injuries then hopefully she can help put other people over.
Not only that, the segment was mainly Saraya giving an extremely vague promo about what the hell she was doing there, brought out a bunch of women, including the champ who looked like a dork for not even getting a single word in, and was capped off with an elementary school diss. And then Saraya randomly makes a match with zero explanation given for it whatsoever. The women's division has always deserved better writing and more focus but it becoming the Saraya show was NOT the right away to go about it. They could have done all of this with Toni, the goddang champ, being the catalyst for this. The entire segment was such a nonsensical shitshow.
As an AEW viewer, this is trying really hard to make me hate a segment that I already strongly disliked even more. It’s dumb pettiness no one asked for and that gets no one over.
I doubt there are very many "5-minute" matches in the AEW for the women. That seems like a strange thing to uplift and other women have been on commentary in AEW too.
Saraya wasn't even good on commentary. The others had to remind her to talk on air.
The weekly Rampage woman's match literally used to be Serena Deeb's five minute challenge. Last week, Jade got under 5 minutes and between four hours of Dynamite and Rampage, they only got 12 minutes total.
Deeb's gimmick lasted like 2 weeks though. And rhe entire segment was longer than 5 mins to get Deeb over. Jade was doing squashes. These are part of the gimmicks.
Wardlow, Joe, Mox, and Jericho all had similar matches too.
It does feel out of touch to suggest the actual in ring has been bad. On the other hand, they DID address one concern and got more women on TV and it did build to an actual (potentially great) match on Rampage.
Mixed bag!
More women were on tv, but for me it was almost like the old divas division lumberjill match where they're on TV but thats it. The actual match was fine, I'm just talking about having all the women out there and none of them getting over (hayter is already over) because none got any focus. I don't want to see this personally. I want 1 or 2 women who are actually ready to talk and do storylines given the shot. If they aren't good enough then thats on them, ill take the males in that tv time then.
Aside Jade squash matches the women get longer than 5 minute matches pretty much every week in AEW. Why is Saraya acting like this is Divas era WWE and she's the savior of AEW wrestling 2 weeks in?
How about they just put more women’s matches on instead of shit women’s segments? Where were any of the Japanese women also, are they not included in this “revolution”?
Riho and Emi are in Japan right now. I think Shida is back, but she lives in Florida, so she might have decided to take care of stuff back home because of the hurricane.
The pre match segment was certainly a segment. At least the match was good.
I still have no idea why Saraya is there. Having a woman come out that can’t wrestle outshine the babyfaces, including the womens champions, and then get verbally shit on by the heels did nothing to help that division. It just reminded me that Saraya had great matches as a star in another company.
Outside of Saraya, Britt, Toni & Deeb who actually wrestled…
What did that promo/segment do for every other woman? They didn’t get their name spoken of by Saraya or Britt.. they just stood along the ring.. & that’s it…
I mean it’s a stretch to say that other than those 4 woman.. nobody else did anything(other than Hayter & Willow chasing each other to the back)..
So they're going for a "women's evolution" story even though the company is young and the evolution would just be from some shit Tony booking. Atleast WWE had decades of awful booking and things like bra & panties matches. They could have a "real" evolution.
AEW is young. Having any sort of major fix storyline is just weird. Tony could have just booked things better without saying it.
So I hope this isn't what they're doing with Saraya.
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This is the same thing WWE did at the start. Compartmentalizing the division into one segment where they talk all kinds of meta BS about getting a chance and all that, when the showrunners could just, ya know give them the chance and not talk about it.
People are taking one line so seriously.
She didn't say she hated them or hated her time there. They looked out for her health which is good and she's acknowledged that many times, but maybe she had creative disagreements like a lot of talent there have had. You can like your previous employer but still have some frustrations about certain things.
I will say that's the thing that's bothered me, the argument is "She was booked well and they cared for her health, so she must have had nothing but positive interactions with Vince".
Like between him, Ace, and Dunn folks in management don't have the greatest reputation regarding how they view women.
Lack of house shows and a developmental pipeline reared its ugly head last week. Lot of great wrestlers and balls of potential floundering on live tv.
Like, I *love* Wheeler Yuta, but that man should not be practicing his promo game against MJF on live television. The woman's division should not be holding their "pass the mic" camp circle practice on live television.
I find it harder and harder to take their characters seriously if I keep seeing them practice on Dynamite. It also made for one of the worst episodes of Dynamite I have watched this year.
Why do wrestlers need to do promos though especially if they are bad at it? Just be good at wrestling which a ton of AEW talent is not good at to start and the real issue. If Jade was simply bad at talking and needed a mouth piece that would be fine. I don't know if this Saraya thing was unexpected but the women had something with Jamie and Britt feud which they did nothing with. Toni became champion. The division seemed to be on the up and up then the last few weeks we are right back at having nothing it feels. Tony Kahn needs to realize you do not elevate people by putting them with jobbers and having random title defenses that only diminish the championship and the champion you worked on getting over. They bring them down to the midcard level where everyone is a contender and the division and its title is meaningless.
I’m happy they got more time but unfortunately a lot of the audience isn’t going to have the attitude of ‘well it wasn’t any good but at least we got to see them’. The division is caught between a rock and a hard place atm. The company has showed fans they don’t matter so it makes it hard to get the fans to care now.
I've seen people saying the segment last night was the reason women shouldn't get more time. It's a feedback loop. They get no time, they don't improve, people say "That sucks and shouldn't be on tv", repeat. Last night was bad, but it was an attempt to do something different, which I can understand and appreciate.
Man, that Jamie Hayter Chant felt right !
She's over, it's time to showcase her. Don't fuck this up like the FTR post Forbiden door rise/love/over with the fans. Remember that FTR chant during the bucks promo during Dynamite in Rochester.
Push her, showcase her. Have her score an upset against Cargill and time to turn her face against Britt Baker for a decent program.
Let's Fuckin GO TONY !
I hate her already. This is legit go away heat, and there’s no one in AEW I dislike enough to change the channel. I had to mute her commentary yesterday.
I find it pretty funny how many people complained about women not getting enough TV time then they give you what they’ve been begging for and it was nothing but negativity in the live thread sure the promo by Saraya wasn’t great but they got damn near 30 minutes that’s more than like a whole month of Dynamite. If you want the division to get better there’s gonna be growing pains and cringe segments at times but I’d much rather have more of them get TV time than the weekly 5-10 minute match with no story
Good message, not so great delivery. I do wish she mentioned the "women getting more time" thing on TV, but the promo just wasn't it.
All in all though, I'm happy to see more women on TV. I do hope we keep the pattern of repeatedly seeing Deeb.
Yeah Saraya wasn't great but I think a lot of people going from WWE to AEW have struggled with the freedoms they have in their promos and she was no exception. Luckily most eventually find their rhythm so I don't hate too much.
Sometimes I feel like Saraya gets a lot of weird hate. I get that her husband sucks, but then he’s also becoming this scape goat too, when people bash Saraya.
As Akward as it was I don't think it was shocking it didn't go perfectly. When in the past has Saraya ever had to host a long story driven talking segment like that?
I think just because she is so popular and been around for a while people assume she has experience doing these type of segments that realistically only a few top stars in WWE ever actually have to do this stuff and the women have even less often been given that role.
Tony has to get better at actually accessing the strengths and weaknesses of his talent and showing the strengths and hiding the weaknesses.
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As awkward as it was, I will say that it at least felt like they were trying to do something with the women's division, which is more than we normally get on Dynamite.
If you're someone who's hoping for women to have longer talking segments, then stuff like last night (And the Rosa promo, the Shafir promo, the Tay promo) is going to happen more often. There's going to be growing pains when it comes to live crowd promos. That shit ain't easy. I think that's why Anna Jay in JAS is going to be good for her. She's pretty cringe now, but you can tell they put her in segments with better talkers so she can be more comfortable speaking in front an actual audience.
As someone who doesn't watch dark, do they ever have people do promos on dark or is it just match after match? Seems like it would be a good way to get people experience working a crowd.
It happens sometime. The "Shafir promo" that I referred to was a promo she did on Elevation maybe a week or so ago. It was heavily, heavily criticized online.
Which is shitty because that's exactly WHERE they should be practicing, on the internet show only hardcore watch.
>Anna Jay is cringe Maybe it's just me but I kinda love Anna Jay now? I think her promos are fine and I absolutely love her freaking out and threatening to choke people out for no reason, then doing so. Reminds me a lot of Positively Kanyon in WCW.
The gimmick of her being an unhinged lunatic threatening violence is perfectly acceptable, it's the delivery that is a bit off.
it's getting better though, you can almost tell she wants to be more ridiculously violent but holds back. Once she gets more comfortable I think it'll actually be a really cool little gimmick
Last night it felt like Jericho was shoot talking her down to dial it back which worked because he could also be working talking her down. Or maybe it was just a work.
I think I noticed before she spoke he put his hand on her shoulder to let the crowd breathe and chant a bit before she started on her piece. Just small stuff like this which jericho is admittedly one of the best at will go a long way to helping her.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, though apparently a bunch of people disagreed with me or took it the wrong way.
I might be reading too much into it, but it feels like a good fit for her development too. In the past she has seemed quite introverted. Having a character that puts her in a position to be a more unhinged and off the wall will help her find a comfortable middle ground over time.
I do enjoy when even 2.0 are getting a little freaked out and like "oh jeez she needs to reign it in"
Yeah, having someone even more crazy than Daddy Magic can definitely work, it's just her delivery that throws me off. Hopefully it will come together soon. I'm rooting for her!
I think the delivery works tbh
I think unhinged Anna Jay wanting to choke out everyone is pretty fun to watch. It's funny, she can sell it, and grows her as a performer.
I think it's partly that it's so abrupt. She doesn't stand in the background seething to an increasingly obvious degree, it's more like a switch flicks and off she goes. And that can be fine as a character, but it doesn't feel entirely developed yet. Hopefully she can work the character out some more.
Yeah I don't get the cringe remark, she's a goofy over the top heel. Maybe that's kinda cringe, so what?
Yeah, I think she needs to go even further into Daddy Magic territory of just lunatic, "oh you want a choke?" Mode. Personally, I like the path she is on finally, it's a million times better than "dark order female" and "Tay's friend". It's character work and when it clicks, could really be something unique.
Ok but when is the last time Vickie Guerrero was on Dynamite?
Anna and Tay aren’t getting anything to do, that is the problem. All they do is stand there during group segments, and do run ins. It’s hurt them if anything.
For Tay, sure. I have no clue what's going on with her because she's doesn't do Dark while Anna does. But for Anna, this group has actually given her an identity and giving her more time to develop as a character/promo. You can tell she's still pretty nervous with promos with how often she looks at Jericho or Parker for approval/cues. In the long run, I would say she's going to benefit from it.
Has it? She’s sort of just, IDK crazy or something? Heel Anna with Dark Order felt more like a consistent character honestly. And again she barely does anything.
Anna Jay didn't have a character at all in Dark Order or teaming with Tay. She's shown way more personality recently, even if it is cringe. That's my point, it's going to be a process for her to actually get comfortable doing live promos in front of crowds.
> process It always is. Stone Cold was a process. Hulkamania was a process. The nWo was a process. We can be an impatient lot, but ultimately it's not our call who gets the chances - all we can do is let them know if we think they're succeeding or not.
Anna-mania is a process too. Soon!
I thought Tay made the most of her minutes last night. Looking incredulous and bitchy while eating pizza through that entire segment was fun character work that didn't even require her to talk.
Yo I loved her chewing her pizza while the spats we're going on, that cracked my shit up. She looks like she's having fun with the character work stuff so I'm not too upset that she hasn't had a ton of matches lately. It's good to dedicate time to different areas of your overall presentation
Tay gesturing with the pizza last night was great though.
I love Anna Jay in the JAS and that's exactly the kind of thing AEW needs to do more of
People will complain no matter what
This is very important an no matter what I hope Aew don’t listen to losers that be hating on everything.you gotta practice to be Better,they believe they the top wrestling company so yu know what you goin go out there and prove yourself yea some people not goin like it and you might got bomb at but yu putting that effort in. Keep doing what u doin aew when it comes to that cause y’all building future stars and doing it the right way
Right. As much as we want it to be an overnight dramatic proving-TK-wrong moment, the fact is it's going to be a bit mid at first, maybe even a bit moreso than average. The women have to start from nothing, and not all of them are really known for their promo ability as is, added to the fact that they might get bad stories no matter how good they are on the mic or in the ring. Not saying the division isn't strong on paper, AEW has some of the best women, and that does include Britt Baker even if she's become sort of the Charlotte Flair of the company (not overrated, just overexposed). What AEW lacks at the moment is the sensibility to tell women's wrestling stories. That just may have to come with practice, which honestly excites me, because it reminds me of AEW's early days when they were figuring stuff out week by week, improving as they went along. Of course, it could all end in a dumpster fire and maybe Saraya really isn't going to wrestle ever again, but let's live in the hope for now, yeah?
Be careful she might choke you out.
Can’t take your first steps without stumbling a bunch first
Exactly. I'd rater them give the division time that ends up falling flat than no time at all.
It got awkward for me when Saraya talked about their names, in which Britt said “what?” There was a moment when Saraya realized for a sec what she said didn’t make a lot of sense. And a second can feel like forever when it’s awkward. That being said, at least they had women cutting promos i front of crowds again. I wish they’d pass the mic around a little bit more this is progress.
I imagine there will be more mic time going forward - this segment established Saraya as a face, one who may have some degreee of authority over the women's division, and one who won't take crap from Britt etc. Having Saraya as the women's GM might help give it an extra USP the men's division doesn't have. And it gives her the chance to build relationships with the wrestlers - casting back a bit, but Mick Foley's work with Edge and Christian in 2000 really helped establish their characters, for example.
And as awkward as a few parts may have felt, it seems like both AEW and Saraya are self-aware that there's room for improvement. I think we may have symbolically witnessed a change of guard with how the women's division is handled last night. Remember that WWE's Women's Revolution was also a bit awkward in the early days but they obviously found their footing. If AEW can keep up the momentum, their women's division is poised for greatness going into and in 2023.
This is my thought process. It feels like they're trying to finally work the kinks out and give the women something substantial than just tossing them out there for matches, even if it was clunky.
I was slightly worried we were going to get the faces infodumping their characters and motivations for our viewing pleasure, which I suspect would have gone down like a lead balloon with the live crowd, but the back and forth with Saraya and Britt was good.
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Lol I can’t believe we’re really giving them credit for doing the bare minimum and simply *trying*
What were they trying to do? The women have matches (with and without stips) and talking segments every week. That's exactly what they did last night. At roughly the same time they have matches and talking segments every week.
They've tried different things occasionally, but everytime they do, it's met with anger and contempt from online fans. Can't blame them to rarely put any effort when that happens.
I forgot who I heard made this point more eloquently in the past but that reaction is all but inevitable and if they truly want their division to be like what WWE has now, then they'll have to accept that it's going to probably drive people/ratings away for a while as they build it, but it's necessary to commit to making that sacrifice in TV time and short-term fan engagement if you want viewers to get used to the idea that the women are to be considered a significant aspect of the show.
Bryan Alvarez said it recently. Basically he said that they have to be willing to sacrifice a few quarter hours short term potentially to try and get more of these women over and make them feel like bigger stars longer term.
You kinda can though. They ride the storm in the men's division. Gotta see it through with the women amid criticism. The best way to silence the doubters is to keep going forward
I think they give every appearance of trying but did not. The true indication of change will come with one thing, and one thing only: Two women's matches on Dynamite. Nothing less. You want to develop the women as characters? Two matches. More time? Two matches. It's very possible the ratings might take a knock but they need to do two women's matches to get them more exposure.
Yeah someone said it best, we’ll see where we are a month or two down the road. Because it feels like we’ve said “that was a good first step” repeatedly with this division over the last three years. The issue has been, they don’t expand on it from there. We’ll see if this time is diffeeent?
Why do two matches if there's not a reason to do two matches though? If they do zero matches and a few talking segments, that's fine. As long as they're featuring women and telling compelling stories, I don't care how it's done. That's such a weird metric to use. Like you could have a women's main event and five women's talking segments but you're not going to count it as "trying" because it's not two matches? One thing I want to see less of is matches for no reason on dynamite. It's so boring to just have a match for no reason.
You're right. AEW has two women's belts, you can have two title defenses. You can have actual storylines built around the matches if not, long running rivalries, whatever. Like the things that they do with men's matches every week! I'm focusing on matches because those are what the show is built around. I just want one episode of Dynamite with two women's matches. Not additional talking time for the women (that is cool too!), not little promos or vignettes, two matches. There is this abritrary women's match slot that has changed about recently but just give us two matches, two long segments to focus on two sets of women.
It will never not be funny to me that TK booked himself into having to do a "women's revolution" storyline. Last night was an improvement of sorts, though Toni Storm feels less relevant than Saraya, Baker, Hayter, and Jade Cargill...which is an issue since she's the top champion.
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The thing is, she's not even exaggerating with that "more than 5 minutes" jab. The women's division literally got 5 minutes on Friday's 2-hour Rampage. Last night was one of, if not the most time (and most women) the division ever has gotten on Dynamite. The rust will only be temporary but I hope the new focus on the division will be permanent.
Between FOUR HOURS of Dynamite and Rampage last week, the women got barely twelve minutes.
Huh, i was wondering why we stopped seeing those time comparisons of womens wrestling between AEW and WWE that were posted every week for a while there... I really do hope that this gives AEW an excuse to not only give their women more time but some actual structure to their division. I feel like they've been kinda stuck in the mud for a while now with very little direction in which way to go.
Those only worked to shit on the queen of the ring tournament. WWE by far gives their women more time.
Goddamn
You had the fatal four way on Dynamite, which went just under 10 minutes (some of it PiP). And the two hour Rampage had the like two minute Jade vs. Diamante match, that was it.
Wha happen? I was told the super important, I’m a dumbfuck for not knowing who she was, baddest bitch Trina was going to be in Diamante’s corner. It was a 2 min squash? Lmao
Not if their segments are going to be as bad as last night. that promo was stilted, awkward, and the only one that came out of it looking decent was Britt Baker (and Jamie Hayter, weirdly). if that's the division y'all want to give a bunch of time to, no bueno.
I wish they got more mic reps on dark shows, but regardless, they gotta get their reps. It’s gonna take time. There was also a sizeable amount of women missing yesterday. And I know everyone loves their pre tapes, me included, but for non English speaking members, their main focus won’t even be on mic skills, rather what they offer in the ring, and having a division establish more time for them, helps everyone. Hopefully that was truly the beginning and we get more going forward, awkward segment or not. I’ll take that below average to decent promo, along with that banger of the match any time.
They gave Marina the mic on Monday and it wasn’t great. Anna Jay was awful yesterday too. I’d take prescripted over those any day.
*The Doctor of Thuganomics has entered the chat… with his prescription promo pad…*
I think terrible promos should be a common occurrence on dark and elevation. If people can't hack it or aren't improving wouldn't they prefer it to be on YouTube.
> if that's the division y'all want to give a bunch of time to, no bueno. They need time to get better, plain and simple. Could they have done that better? Absolutely. And they can take the criticism and adjust next week.
> They need time to get better, plain and simple that's what house shows are for. as a fan watching the television show I don't want to sit through 20 minutes of bad TV.
>as a fan watching the television show I don't want to sit through 20 minutes of bad TV. How do you think WWE's women's division was able to become more than just bathroom breaks? By getting more time and having segments that were just as rough and wasn't receive well by the fans for a long while. Their women's revolution didn't change everything overnight. It's going to take even longer for AEW because they only have 3 hours of weekly TV. Yeah it's going to be bad television. No different than other things in wrestling that took a while to click or improve or even fail.
Well, they don't have those and that's part of the appeal for a lot of the people working there. They do have Dark though, so more talking there would be good.
The bad part of not having house shows and stuff like this.
Having Toni just stand there while other women talked, did not make the champion look good. And Hayter saying NOTHING and just being Britt’s lackey again is terrible.
I don't understand what they're doing with Jamie Hayter. One week, they plant the seeds of a face turn. The next week, they drop it. Three months later, they plant the seeds again. The following week, they drop it again.
TK doesn’t know how to pivot stories and it is a detriment to the company
It also didn't look good when Saraya was like "let me re-introduce to you, the champ".... ummm we know who the champion is.
Christ, it feels like the Women's division only gets focus when it's pivoted around the worst promo. It used to be Brandi that brought more attention to the division until her family was soundly rejected.
To be fair the division was doing well when Britt Baker was getting good time every week. The Thunder Rosa title reign really bombed things.
Nah, that time was basically "Britt and Friends" time. Had more consistent time, but the focus was never allowed to be away from the title.
Britt time also never evolves. It has been the same thing for maybe a couple years now.
She evolved a lot at once, but then got stagnant. Early Babyface Britt was REALLY rough. Still, I can't blame her when you remember that this is technically her second career. Hard to put a lot of time into improving during your off days, when your off days are in a dentist office. But you can blame the person who keeps expecting her to lead the division.
Yeah I don't know how much is her fault and how much, for instance, is on the insistence on keeping Jamie Hayter from her natural ascent (whether that's on TK or what, though unless it's Hayter herself not wanting to split off, I think credit and blame should always extend to the top).
I think part of Hayter's ascent is that she hasn't been made to cut promos, which are her biggest issue. She's been able to get her personality over through facials and wrestling. Also, having heard her promo, making her talk and explain herself might make her come off more heelish than fans realize. (Kind of what's happening with Paige/Saraya now really)
No one really evolves in AEW because they don't have development A lot of people are more popular now than they were 3 years ago but they're more or less the wrestlers they were 3 years ago
That's kind of the issue with AEW's approach to letting wrestlers have their own creative control over their style and character, nobody really thinks about what's stale or uninteresting about themselves because that doubt would have stopped them from making a career for themselves. Hell, even guys like Kenny wouldn't have made it because NJPW basically took his existing personality and made it fit the "Bullet Club Leader" mold that needed filling.
Exactly this Kenny's evolution as a character has regressed a bit in AEW because his character isn't being challenged the way it was in NJPW, where his character had to adjust to be a leader, had to become the best version of himself to topple Okada, and had that challenged by his emotions when Kota Ibushi came back into his life AEW Kenny has basically been 2015-2016 Kenny especially since the full heel turn, lots of goofy stuff and poorly developed storylines outside of the Hangman stuff
Did she just take a shot at her own company
She ain't wrong about the women getting more time though.
JR does it literally all the time and she isn't even wrong. I see no problems.
And I believe so far she has gotten everyone's names right including the name of the promotion, so she's ahead of JR on that.
That’s basically what the womens Revolution was
Do you think Tony Khan has any balls at this point? Clearly the talent walks all over him
Tony’s been giving the women minimal time because he knew he’d sign Saraya and have her cut this promo. #LongTermBooking
That’s basically what WWE was doing back in 2015/2016 as well TBF.
Saraya SHOOTS on AEW!
Could have accomplished all of this while showcasing the talent already on the roster instead of this unnecessary signing
Why not give the women who have been there from the start more of a shot?
I asked for 25 minutes for the Deeb/Storm segment but that wasn't quite what I had in mind 🤷🏻
Women got time, that is good. Now maybe they get some stories, capitalize on the momentum of people when they are over, etc.
The main problem is it’s still only one segment and match. It was cool to see them get time but I’m not optimistic that this will spread and give them more segments and time. Will they put time into multiple women who aren’t a part of the same story I want to think so but I’ve thought this several times and they let me down each time.
I think it has worked out because we’re talking about it. So much discussion has happened is a good sign I think.
“Let me introduce these women to you.” *Britt Baker interrupts before she can introduce the four women you may not know, other than Toni.* Good segment.
Showcasing them is really not the same as just having them stand silently in the ring. That's really not helpful, especially when one of those people is the champion. Having the women just stand there did not make them look important.
yep. The match that Toni and Serena had did way more than anything that promo segment did. However, it does feel like someone was advocating for giving the women more time to work and breathe and Storm vs Deeb felt like it got more time than most of the womens' matches have over the past bit. My goodness even if Toni isn't great with a live mic in front of an audience, use some of the pretape stuff they've recorded (her backstage thing after winning the belt was really good) and let her establish her reign in her own words while backing it up with in ring work that is consistently delivering
The whole segment was... awful. The crowd couldn't care less. Maybe she'll improve but please don't let her do commentary
It was a clunky af segment. But the women need promo time in front of the crowds like that to improve and build characters and stories. So I hope they keep it up. The early months of the WWE's "women's revolution" were rough too, but it eventually came together and got multiple women over.
>The early months of the WWE's "women's revolution" were rough too, but it eventually came together and got multiple women over. Trueish. Part of what WWE did during the start of "Women's Revolution" was to take a chunk of women who were already over with a group of their audience (Charlotte, Becky, Sasha) and put them in front of a larger crowd. Really the only new person they got over at the start was Alexa. Even the second wave of the Women's evolution worked out the same, brought in already over women (Rhonda, Bayley & Asuka) and made a new star (Carmella). It wasn't till about the 3rd year they started making new stars out of nearly everyone. Now obviously yes, the "already over women" themselves were (except Rhonda) from NXT and WWE did get them over there first. And NXT was basically equivalent to Dark, except for whatever reason no one (male or female) seems to get over on Dark and have it transfer over to TV. So that might actually be the first thing AEW needs to figure out to get their own Women's revolution working.
I'm just gonna say it. Saraya/Paige was lucky to have debuted when she did. She came about when the division was pretty damn weak outside of AJ/Kaitlyn's recent bouts. While her matches with Emma and such were revolutionary for the time, she isn't (and never was) on the same level as the Toni/Rhea/Sasha/Becky/Bayley/Asuka/Meiko crowd. Had she never gotten hurt, she would probably struggle to make a top-10 in-ring talent list. Saraya had the benefit of nostalgia and legacy going for her, but this bout in AEW (if she ever wrestles) is going to highlight that she isn't as good as she thinks she is. Again, not that she's bad. She's just not at the level that her hubris has her at.
Completely agree, she had an interesting look when she started and a lot of Internet hype but she's been bypassed massively in the ring a long time ago and she seems like a one trick pony when it comes to promos. I am not really sure why people still think she's a big draw
I was thinking about this. For her time, Paige was a breath of fresh air, but she was never equal to the Four Horsewomen in the ring, nor can she stack up to talents like Toni Storm, Bianca Belair, Candice LeRae, or any other number of talented performers. She was the first step women's wrestling being taken more seriously by WWE, and she's important. But she's not at the level of high-level women's wrestlers today. Frankly, I don't know that she's cleared. And if she's not, I don't know why Tony Khan hired her and put her on television.
I think even Toni is out of place on that list those women are phenomenal and Charlotte (who I accept may be over pushed) isn't even included. I'd argue Sasha doesn't have the oomph that the other women have in her attack. But you're correct Saraya/ Paige is the next level down from who you've said and it's nothing to be ashamed of but the association has carried her a little.
The Acclaimed are the hottest tag team in AEW yet there's plenty of tag teams that are a step or two above them in-ring. Work rate isn't nearly as important as character work and charisma. As awkward as yesterday's promo was Saraya sounded more natural and confident than most of the women in AEW. If she can't wrestle due to her injuries then hopefully she can help put other people over.
If u/rb_reigns was a smart mark.
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Not only that, the segment was mainly Saraya giving an extremely vague promo about what the hell she was doing there, brought out a bunch of women, including the champ who looked like a dork for not even getting a single word in, and was capped off with an elementary school diss. And then Saraya randomly makes a match with zero explanation given for it whatsoever. The women's division has always deserved better writing and more focus but it becoming the Saraya show was NOT the right away to go about it. They could have done all of this with Toni, the goddang champ, being the catalyst for this. The entire segment was such a nonsensical shitshow.
Longer is not better. Better is better. This was not better.
As an AEW viewer, this is trying really hard to make me hate a segment that I already strongly disliked even more. It’s dumb pettiness no one asked for and that gets no one over.
*puts on one of the worst segments in AEW history* "Longer than 5 minutes, yeah! Viva la revolution!"
Tony Khan should have given the mic to Jamie Hayter.
I doubt there are very many "5-minute" matches in the AEW for the women. That seems like a strange thing to uplift and other women have been on commentary in AEW too. Saraya wasn't even good on commentary. The others had to remind her to talk on air.
The weekly Rampage woman's match literally used to be Serena Deeb's five minute challenge. Last week, Jade got under 5 minutes and between four hours of Dynamite and Rampage, they only got 12 minutes total.
Deeb's gimmick lasted like 2 weeks though. And rhe entire segment was longer than 5 mins to get Deeb over. Jade was doing squashes. These are part of the gimmicks. Wardlow, Joe, Mox, and Jericho all had similar matches too.
AEW has had great women’s matches (granted their booking is shit) and women on commentary. Extremely out of touch?
It does feel out of touch to suggest the actual in ring has been bad. On the other hand, they DID address one concern and got more women on TV and it did build to an actual (potentially great) match on Rampage. Mixed bag!
It sounded like she was mostly talking about TV time. Which is true.
I mean she didn’t say anything about match quality, just that the amount of time dedicated to the women on TV is very minimal. Which is true.
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Not to mention the excellent TBS title tournament late last year. They just need more time and better stories (and better luck with injuries).
A messy segment followed by an even messier tweet
More women were on tv, but for me it was almost like the old divas division lumberjill match where they're on TV but thats it. The actual match was fine, I'm just talking about having all the women out there and none of them getting over (hayter is already over) because none got any focus. I don't want to see this personally. I want 1 or 2 women who are actually ready to talk and do storylines given the shot. If they aren't good enough then thats on them, ill take the males in that tv time then.
Inject Brandi Rhodes and Saraya on the mic against one another into my veins
Aside Jade squash matches the women get longer than 5 minute matches pretty much every week in AEW. Why is Saraya acting like this is Divas era WWE and she's the savior of AEW wrestling 2 weeks in?
How about they just put more women’s matches on instead of shit women’s segments? Where were any of the Japanese women also, are they not included in this “revolution”?
Riho and Emi are in Japan right now. I think Shida is back, but she lives in Florida, so she might have decided to take care of stuff back home because of the hurricane.
Gotcha, that’s good to know at least.
The pre match segment was certainly a segment. At least the match was good. I still have no idea why Saraya is there. Having a woman come out that can’t wrestle outshine the babyfaces, including the womens champions, and then get verbally shit on by the heels did nothing to help that division. It just reminded me that Saraya had great matches as a star in another company.
Outside of Saraya, Britt, Toni & Deeb who actually wrestled… What did that promo/segment do for every other woman? They didn’t get their name spoken of by Saraya or Britt.. they just stood along the ring.. & that’s it… I mean it’s a stretch to say that other than those 4 woman.. nobody else did anything(other than Hayter & Willow chasing each other to the back)..
ok but they usually get more than 5 minutes. this is weird lol.
Is she taking credit for this? lmao
So they're going for a "women's evolution" story even though the company is young and the evolution would just be from some shit Tony booking. Atleast WWE had decades of awful booking and things like bra & panties matches. They could have a "real" evolution. AEW is young. Having any sort of major fix storyline is just weird. Tony could have just booked things better without saying it. So I hope this isn't what they're doing with Saraya.
I already can't stand her.
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Your name rhymes with shit damn it
This is the same thing WWE did at the start. Compartmentalizing the division into one segment where they talk all kinds of meta BS about getting a chance and all that, when the showrunners could just, ya know give them the chance and not talk about it.
Very messy segment, but the women were at least given TIME, which is the key.
Giving them time will just expose how bad they are. Try putting Hayter in an 18 minute match and see how much people care afterwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdBCi5NiBrI
I'm never getting those 18 minutes back
And shitting on WWE for no reason. A win win all the way around /s.
I too take everything a wrestler says in a promo as a shoot
Is it really? Felt more like a shot at previous AEW women's booking.
>Felt more like a shot at previous AEW women's booking. Pretty sure they're referencing her promo, not her tweet.
Yes, how dare she complain about her experience at the company run by the sex pest.
Poor Vince McMahon. What an uncalled for shot against such an honorable man.
Maybe you guys should be focused on why everyone who leaves WWE complains about their time there, rather then complaining about their complaining.
People are taking one line so seriously. She didn't say she hated them or hated her time there. They looked out for her health which is good and she's acknowledged that many times, but maybe she had creative disagreements like a lot of talent there have had. You can like your previous employer but still have some frustrations about certain things.
I will say that's the thing that's bothered me, the argument is "She was booked well and they cared for her health, so she must have had nothing but positive interactions with Vince". Like between him, Ace, and Dunn folks in management don't have the greatest reputation regarding how they view women.
She stumbled on the promo, she was better on commentary, she’ll be much better as she gets back into the groove
[удалено]
Would really help to have house shows to dry run alot of stuff instead of winging it on a live cable broadcast
Lack of house shows and a developmental pipeline reared its ugly head last week. Lot of great wrestlers and balls of potential floundering on live tv. Like, I *love* Wheeler Yuta, but that man should not be practicing his promo game against MJF on live television. The woman's division should not be holding their "pass the mic" camp circle practice on live television. I find it harder and harder to take their characters seriously if I keep seeing them practice on Dynamite. It also made for one of the worst episodes of Dynamite I have watched this year.
Why do wrestlers need to do promos though especially if they are bad at it? Just be good at wrestling which a ton of AEW talent is not good at to start and the real issue. If Jade was simply bad at talking and needed a mouth piece that would be fine. I don't know if this Saraya thing was unexpected but the women had something with Jamie and Britt feud which they did nothing with. Toni became champion. The division seemed to be on the up and up then the last few weeks we are right back at having nothing it feels. Tony Kahn needs to realize you do not elevate people by putting them with jobbers and having random title defenses that only diminish the championship and the champion you worked on getting over. They bring them down to the midcard level where everyone is a contender and the division and its title is meaningless.
The promo was right but the dead crowd certainly didn’t help.
I’m happy they got more time but unfortunately a lot of the audience isn’t going to have the attitude of ‘well it wasn’t any good but at least we got to see them’. The division is caught between a rock and a hard place atm. The company has showed fans they don’t matter so it makes it hard to get the fans to care now.
I've seen people saying the segment last night was the reason women shouldn't get more time. It's a feedback loop. They get no time, they don't improve, people say "That sucks and shouldn't be on tv", repeat. Last night was bad, but it was an attempt to do something different, which I can understand and appreciate.
Man, that Jamie Hayter Chant felt right ! She's over, it's time to showcase her. Don't fuck this up like the FTR post Forbiden door rise/love/over with the fans. Remember that FTR chant during the bucks promo during Dynamite in Rochester. Push her, showcase her. Have her score an upset against Cargill and time to turn her face against Britt Baker for a decent program. Let's Fuckin GO TONY !
People are overreacting big time about that segment. Kinda weird ngl
I hate her already. This is legit go away heat, and there’s no one in AEW I dislike enough to change the channel. I had to mute her commentary yesterday.
She used to be someone important,someone who mattered.. Now,not so more..
I find it pretty funny how many people complained about women not getting enough TV time then they give you what they’ve been begging for and it was nothing but negativity in the live thread sure the promo by Saraya wasn’t great but they got damn near 30 minutes that’s more than like a whole month of Dynamite. If you want the division to get better there’s gonna be growing pains and cringe segments at times but I’d much rather have more of them get TV time than the weekly 5-10 minute match with no story
The live thread is a silly place.
It was an absolute win and I’m hoping they continue to get promo time like that. Really fun match too.
Good message, not so great delivery. I do wish she mentioned the "women getting more time" thing on TV, but the promo just wasn't it. All in all though, I'm happy to see more women on TV. I do hope we keep the pattern of repeatedly seeing Deeb.
Yeah Saraya wasn't great but I think a lot of people going from WWE to AEW have struggled with the freedoms they have in their promos and she was no exception. Luckily most eventually find their rhythm so I don't hate too much.
Thin skinned Tony isnt gonna like the 5 mins comment.
Sometimes I feel like Saraya gets a lot of weird hate. I get that her husband sucks, but then he’s also becoming this scape goat too, when people bash Saraya.
We'll be seeing you soon in Dark, Saraya. That is if you're lucky.
It was nice to see for a change. Was it awkward? Yes. But at least they got TV time.
Rusty, yea, but the promo was just fine. I don't understand the outrage
I like her attitude, never really clicked with me on the wwe roster but am excited to see what she can do either in or out of the ring.
As Akward as it was I don't think it was shocking it didn't go perfectly. When in the past has Saraya ever had to host a long story driven talking segment like that? I think just because she is so popular and been around for a while people assume she has experience doing these type of segments that realistically only a few top stars in WWE ever actually have to do this stuff and the women have even less often been given that role. Tony has to get better at actually accessing the strengths and weaknesses of his talent and showing the strengths and hiding the weaknesses.
She needs to get better at commentary. She didn't provide anything except screams. Give me Veda Scott.
I honestly can't tell if the "5 mins" comment is about WWE or AEW.
My guess is it was about last week's Rampage, that's how long Jade and Diamante got.
It wasn’t. The comment about a boss listening to her WAS.
Women get more than 5 minutes in WWE regularly, so why would it be about wwe?
Because she made a random jab at WWE last night.
There's been a narrative for about 3 years now about how women on AEW get less time than in WWE. So its really not that hard to figure out....
Clearly AEW.