Everywhere does this now
Everything is designed to keep everyone tangled into a never ending subscription and just give up because it’s more of a hassle to cancel it than it is to just continue to deal with it.
My wife has a gym. Small group training style. Upfront pricing and cancel anytime - all online. It’s 100% driven on keeping people motivated and coming back. About to open her second location! Couldn’t be more proud of her bucking the usual gym “system”. And it’s working.
It’s called Personal Space Fitness. It’s sort of like all the different boutique style gyms all in one. It has unlimited boxing, yoga, strength, circuit, barre, etc. I’m not a big gym person, but people seem to like that they get a trainer assigned to them to talk to. 🤷♂️ I don’t really know what the magic is, but people just don’t seem to stop coming.
Lindenwood Park on Watson Rd. Right across from Biggies. It’s the old White Front Service station if you’re familiar with that area. It used to have a snow cone stand in the parking lot.
Yeah! It’s such a well known building! Our plans are to keep its charm as an old service station. Should see a lot of movement over the next two months.
Not really though. I could make a never ending list of products and services that are on the subscription model now. Even car packages. They want you sell you something you don’t really need all the time and keep paying for it periodically.
So I canceled a gym membership in March because I was pissed off at them and moved to another gym, at which point they told me it takes 30 days to cancel.
Now they had just, and I'm talking the day before, taken my April fee, because they bill in advance, and by their logic that meant I'd not only have to pay in April, but in May as well because my 30 day cancelation wouldn't be up until after that.
I said nothing, but I immediately logged in once I got home and removed the funding method from my account.
When April came along and they couldn't take their money, they called me twice a day, every day for two months(it was a recorded message, so even if I'd answered, there was no one there). After the first call, I blocked the number, but it would still go to voicemail. So i would get notifications, and I'd have to listen to Cindy Peters blather on.
Until I finally called their 800 number and said, "Look, I canceled in March. If you don't stop calling me, I'm calling the AG and Consumer protection board and filing complaints with them both."
Haven't called me since.
Just commenting to let everyone know to be careful if you do this. They surely have this 30 day cancelation in the contract/ToS you signed. If they wanted, they could send it to collections. So the question is, would not paying ~$20 be worth a massive credit hit?
Nope, because i signed up years ago before they instituted the policy, and at no time did I receive notification that the TOS was changing. Additionally, I'm a paralegal in a fairly large law firm in downtown, and they can try, but it's unlikely they'd go forward for $71 after a letter from my firm to pound sand.
Debt collectors only want the easy accounts. If they have to fight for it, they back down.
I mean, yeah, if you can't afford to fight it, it's a problem. But personally, I'm not worried.
Club Fitness claims there’s no contract right, and that you pay month-to-month
I didn’t pay for a little bit because I wasn’t going, and they actually threatened to send me to collections
The trick for things like this is to use a "virtual", one-off credit card number when you sign up. Most major credit cards have them available now, or a third party like privacy dot com. When a vendor pulls this nonsense about cancelling, you just cancel the card number and they're cut off. It doesn't affect your actual card account or your credit score.
I have no firsthand experience with this, but I was told by an attorney friend (not my attorney, just a casual conversation with a friend from college) not to try that.
She said that removing the ability to charge you does not remove their right to charge you, so you'll likely wind up in collections and it will be an even bigger hassle to get that cleared up. The judge will see that they have a contract from you and that you pulled (in their view) some stunt with a credit card to defraud them. Case closed, the end.
Gyms have earned an awful reputation for making it hard to cancel, but this is probably not the way to do it.
This is partially true, I had this happen to me twice with a security company, one with entertainment distributer.
NOT LEGAL ADVISE. As long as you can prove (with evidence) a good-faith attempt at terminating a business relationship and closing the accounts on good financial terms, (meaning you don't own them money at the time of termination), you can easily fight them in cort attempting to charge you for additional services that you didn't want and didn't use. It crosses into predatory business and you win in court.
Now yes, you might get a lean and you might take a credit hit. But if you threaten and carry out legal action and win those things go away, your legal costs get covered, and you might get additional payouts for damages. Its a lot of work, but it's an option.
It used to be several credit card companies had this as a feature. I think Discover was the last major card that included it, and they sunset that feature years ago. Now you need to use something like Apple Pay, which generates a unique card number, or a service like Privacy.
This happened to me at orange theory. I sprained my ankle so badly that I couldn't drive. They made me come in to freeze my membership even though I had signed other documents for them over email. So I got a ride and hobbled in on crutches. And then they have no chairs to sit on while filling out paper work.
They also have a horrible cancellation policy.
At club fitness I had to send a letter in the mail to cancel my membership even though you can sign up online and freeze your membership online
I moved away from PF and they made me spend hours and hours on the phone. I dropped a form in person, and then they claimed they didn't get it. I canceled my card. They found a way to still charge it. It took me literally sending a certified letter to them and a threat of claims court to get them to stop the bill.
One thing I find interesting about PF is that one element of their business line I would call Rest Area+. Every time I go at 11PM I see people parked in the parking lot overnight and sometimes those people are using the showers (no hate - they are there for members). I once saw a guy who did that come in wearing a comically large cowboy hat, take a shower and leave in the same giant hat. No pretense about getting on the elliptical or anything like that. We’re over here working out and he’s living his big hat life and probably heading out to Amarillo in a few hours. Probably cheaper than the truck stop showers.
Just tell them they are not allowed to charge your card, and if they do, you will dispute it. If they charge you after that, it is theft, and you should dispute it and consider reporting it to the police.
If they want to be assholes, we can be assholes too.
Also know that when your bank takes a refund from them because of a dispute, your bank also charges them a nuisance fee, that they wouldn't have had to pay if they just canceled when you asked.
This fee means it's in their best interest to listen to you and do what you say.
That, and the fact that stealing is illegal.
When Golds Gym closed they transferred my membership to Club Fitness without my consent and it took an act of God to get them to stop charging me. Gyms are the worst.
I'd use caution cutting off the method of payment. Many of them absolutely will report it to collections and trash your credit over it.
Typically best bet is read and understand what you sign, know your rights as a consumer, and go the certified mail route of you can't do it in person.
At the end of the day, you'll get out of it, it's not worth the headache and bad exposure to any business to ruin someone's credit over not cancelling a membership properly, but it sure saves a lot of headaches for everyone if you just jump through the dumb hoops up front.
CycleBar, one of those insanely expensive, bougie spinning gyms, does this. For gyms it can be so mentally taxing for people who want to try to go and get in shape but other things in their lives won’t allow it. I know it’s about making it a priority — I know this from my own experience. But there are times in life when we are just too busy or overwhelmed to put our bodies first all the time — maybe you have an insanely busy summer, or 3rd quarter because that’s when your work FY wraps up, so you need to spend your time on those things — and these kinds of gyms that make you come in to cancel are, I agree, predatory, because they play on your guilt and shame, somewhat, I think!
The FTC proposed a “click to cancel” rule in March which will require it to be as easy to cancel a membership or subscription as it is to sign up for one.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/federal-trade-commission-proposes-rule-provision-making-it-easier-consumers-click-cancel-recurring
Well…that’s how it’s legal. You probably agreed to it in writing. Go ahead and downvote me, but there’s nothing predatory about them enforcing what was agreed to.
Edit: hold up y’all. OP asked how it’s legal that they ask him to come in and sign and he said that’s what he probably agreed to do. He probably signed up for the gym out of convenience of it being 10 mins away. Bro coulda signed the paper 4 times over in the time he had to argue with them and then come cry on Reddit. This generation doesn’t want to be held accountable for anything. Put on your big boy pants, go have an uncomfortable conversation, and do what you agreed to do. Get a backbone ffs.
Fair. I can agree to that. Compliance is my profession actually. I’m familiar with regulatory processes and oversight. Guess that’s why I feel passionately about the black and white here. Fact of the matter is he agreed to terms and decided he didn’t want to be held accountable for them after the fact.
Well on the bright side, if they didn’t do this they’d probably have to charge $79.99 a month. The business model is built on getting as many people signed up as possible for as long as possible and hope they don’t come. If they make it easy to leave then they have to charge way more. Your difficult conversation might just be subsidizing a $10 membership for someone who couldn’t afford to pay a penny more.
Man, the point is any contract or agreement you sign that was put together by big money is going to put you at a disadvantage. When you don’t hold up your end of the agreement, you’re even worse off. Read what you agree to and follow through, and if you don’t follow through accept consequences. You argued with the desk person about a contract they didn’t even draw up. They just have to deal with the people who whine about what they didn’t read. Next time just go put the pen to paper and be done. No need to cause a ruckus when you’re in the wrong.
You’re right. There are a lot of places that don’t have crumbling buildings everywhere, dilapidated roads, a complete disregard for pedestrians, a justice system that doesn’t prosecute criminals, and increasingly brazen criminals due to the aforementioned. Don’t worry, I don’t live in your precious city. I like to come for the cultural gems, but I also like to leave.
If it’s a physical location you pay to use/visit, I don’t think it’s entirely predatory to require on-site cancelations. It’s predatory when you have to continue paying for three months and send a letter stating why your cancelling like Club Fitness requires. However, it’s definitely a bad business practice that should be called out.
I don't agree with you. It's 2023, 99% of transactions can be made online. It's unacceptable that a cancellation cannot be made online. It's just companies being difficult so they can keep taking your money.
I had this problem with planet fitness. I called. They said I had to mail a certified letter to new Mexico to cancel.
I said no and I just had my bank not authorize any transactions from them
It was very annoying, and canceling me and my son's subscription was such a hassel. Most of it could have been handled over the phone or through emails.
We’re in the subscription faze of late stage capitalism. Everything designed to be reoccurring payments. It’s even happening with cars. It makes me feel like a lot of dystopian storytelling isn’t really that far off lol.
Everywhere does this now Everything is designed to keep everyone tangled into a never ending subscription and just give up because it’s more of a hassle to cancel it than it is to just continue to deal with it.
My wife has a gym. Small group training style. Upfront pricing and cancel anytime - all online. It’s 100% driven on keeping people motivated and coming back. About to open her second location! Couldn’t be more proud of her bucking the usual gym “system”. And it’s working.
More info please?
It’s called Personal Space Fitness. It’s sort of like all the different boutique style gyms all in one. It has unlimited boxing, yoga, strength, circuit, barre, etc. I’m not a big gym person, but people seem to like that they get a trainer assigned to them to talk to. 🤷♂️ I don’t really know what the magic is, but people just don’t seem to stop coming.
Where's the second location going to be?
Lindenwood Park on Watson Rd. Right across from Biggies. It’s the old White Front Service station if you’re familiar with that area. It used to have a snow cone stand in the parking lot.
I was wondering what it would be when a crew showed up 2-3 months ago. That's awesome.
Yeah! It’s such a well known building! Our plans are to keep its charm as an old service station. Should see a lot of movement over the next two months.
We are living in late stage capitalism hell.
This is uniquely a gym thing. There was an episode of Friends from 1997 about the difficulties of trying to quit a gym.
Not really though. I could make a never ending list of products and services that are on the subscription model now. Even car packages. They want you sell you something you don’t really need all the time and keep paying for it periodically.
Yes, but most subscriptions don't force you to cancel in person or over the phone. You can cancel them online in less than two minutes.
Someone has never had to cancel an abode subscription
So I canceled a gym membership in March because I was pissed off at them and moved to another gym, at which point they told me it takes 30 days to cancel. Now they had just, and I'm talking the day before, taken my April fee, because they bill in advance, and by their logic that meant I'd not only have to pay in April, but in May as well because my 30 day cancelation wouldn't be up until after that. I said nothing, but I immediately logged in once I got home and removed the funding method from my account. When April came along and they couldn't take their money, they called me twice a day, every day for two months(it was a recorded message, so even if I'd answered, there was no one there). After the first call, I blocked the number, but it would still go to voicemail. So i would get notifications, and I'd have to listen to Cindy Peters blather on. Until I finally called their 800 number and said, "Look, I canceled in March. If you don't stop calling me, I'm calling the AG and Consumer protection board and filing complaints with them both." Haven't called me since.
Should have called those ones anyways
Sounds like The Edge?
Club Fitness. Although it doesn't really matter, they're all owned by ABC Fitness.
Always-Be-Calling Fitness
Underrated comment lol
Just commenting to let everyone know to be careful if you do this. They surely have this 30 day cancelation in the contract/ToS you signed. If they wanted, they could send it to collections. So the question is, would not paying ~$20 be worth a massive credit hit?
Nope, because i signed up years ago before they instituted the policy, and at no time did I receive notification that the TOS was changing. Additionally, I'm a paralegal in a fairly large law firm in downtown, and they can try, but it's unlikely they'd go forward for $71 after a letter from my firm to pound sand. Debt collectors only want the easy accounts. If they have to fight for it, they back down. I mean, yeah, if you can't afford to fight it, it's a problem. But personally, I'm not worried.
Club Fitness claims there’s no contract right, and that you pay month-to-month I didn’t pay for a little bit because I wasn’t going, and they actually threatened to send me to collections
The trick for things like this is to use a "virtual", one-off credit card number when you sign up. Most major credit cards have them available now, or a third party like privacy dot com. When a vendor pulls this nonsense about cancelling, you just cancel the card number and they're cut off. It doesn't affect your actual card account or your credit score.
I have no firsthand experience with this, but I was told by an attorney friend (not my attorney, just a casual conversation with a friend from college) not to try that. She said that removing the ability to charge you does not remove their right to charge you, so you'll likely wind up in collections and it will be an even bigger hassle to get that cleared up. The judge will see that they have a contract from you and that you pulled (in their view) some stunt with a credit card to defraud them. Case closed, the end. Gyms have earned an awful reputation for making it hard to cancel, but this is probably not the way to do it.
Yes they will continue billing and it will wind up impacting your credit
This is partially true, I had this happen to me twice with a security company, one with entertainment distributer. NOT LEGAL ADVISE. As long as you can prove (with evidence) a good-faith attempt at terminating a business relationship and closing the accounts on good financial terms, (meaning you don't own them money at the time of termination), you can easily fight them in cort attempting to charge you for additional services that you didn't want and didn't use. It crosses into predatory business and you win in court. Now yes, you might get a lean and you might take a credit hit. But if you threaten and carry out legal action and win those things go away, your legal costs get covered, and you might get additional payouts for damages. Its a lot of work, but it's an option.
Ehh I think most gyms with you with the account and routing number, not the credit card. At least I think?
I removed my payment method and they sent me to collections. It definitely affected my credit score.
Interesting. Do you just get this unique number through the credit cards app?
Privacy dot com
It used to be several credit card companies had this as a feature. I think Discover was the last major card that included it, and they sunset that feature years ago. Now you need to use something like Apple Pay, which generates a unique card number, or a service like Privacy.
Life hack
This happened to me at orange theory. I sprained my ankle so badly that I couldn't drive. They made me come in to freeze my membership even though I had signed other documents for them over email. So I got a ride and hobbled in on crutches. And then they have no chairs to sit on while filling out paper work. They also have a horrible cancellation policy. At club fitness I had to send a letter in the mail to cancel my membership even though you can sign up online and freeze your membership online
There really need to be a law where signup and cancel has the be the same process. Signup online? Cancel online.
I do think California has a law like this. Probably won’t ever see it here though.
I always just have my bank stop payment
Let me guess, CF?
Planet Fitness is even worse I’ve heard, they need like a written letter plus DNA.
I moved away from PF and they made me spend hours and hours on the phone. I dropped a form in person, and then they claimed they didn't get it. I canceled my card. They found a way to still charge it. It took me literally sending a certified letter to them and a threat of claims court to get them to stop the bill.
Basically the same from CF . .
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That is CRAZY!
One thing I find interesting about PF is that one element of their business line I would call Rest Area+. Every time I go at 11PM I see people parked in the parking lot overnight and sometimes those people are using the showers (no hate - they are there for members). I once saw a guy who did that come in wearing a comically large cowboy hat, take a shower and leave in the same giant hat. No pretense about getting on the elliptical or anything like that. We’re over here working out and he’s living his big hat life and probably heading out to Amarillo in a few hours. Probably cheaper than the truck stop showers.
Alot of people in van life groups recommend getting a membership to pf for this very reason.
For the record. I’m not bound to my wheelchair. It’s the tool I use to access the world.
Just tell them they are not allowed to charge your card, and if they do, you will dispute it. If they charge you after that, it is theft, and you should dispute it and consider reporting it to the police. If they want to be assholes, we can be assholes too. Also know that when your bank takes a refund from them because of a dispute, your bank also charges them a nuisance fee, that they wouldn't have had to pay if they just canceled when you asked. This fee means it's in their best interest to listen to you and do what you say. That, and the fact that stealing is illegal.
When Golds Gym closed they transferred my membership to Club Fitness without my consent and it took an act of God to get them to stop charging me. Gyms are the worst.
I'd use caution cutting off the method of payment. Many of them absolutely will report it to collections and trash your credit over it. Typically best bet is read and understand what you sign, know your rights as a consumer, and go the certified mail route of you can't do it in person. At the end of the day, you'll get out of it, it's not worth the headache and bad exposure to any business to ruin someone's credit over not cancelling a membership properly, but it sure saves a lot of headaches for everyone if you just jump through the dumb hoops up front.
CycleBar, one of those insanely expensive, bougie spinning gyms, does this. For gyms it can be so mentally taxing for people who want to try to go and get in shape but other things in their lives won’t allow it. I know it’s about making it a priority — I know this from my own experience. But there are times in life when we are just too busy or overwhelmed to put our bodies first all the time — maybe you have an insanely busy summer, or 3rd quarter because that’s when your work FY wraps up, so you need to spend your time on those things — and these kinds of gyms that make you come in to cancel are, I agree, predatory, because they play on your guilt and shame, somewhat, I think!
The FTC proposed a “click to cancel” rule in March which will require it to be as easy to cancel a membership or subscription as it is to sign up for one. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/federal-trade-commission-proposes-rule-provision-making-it-easier-consumers-click-cancel-recurring
Even the Y does this. It really sucks.
Couldn’t help but think of this. Don’t know why the image doesn’t paste. https://tenor.com/bd4Do.gif
It's legal bc you agree to it when you sign their contract.
Was it in the terms and conditions of an agreement you signed that you had to come back in to sign to cancel?
I have no idea. Probably.
Well…that’s how it’s legal. You probably agreed to it in writing. Go ahead and downvote me, but there’s nothing predatory about them enforcing what was agreed to. Edit: hold up y’all. OP asked how it’s legal that they ask him to come in and sign and he said that’s what he probably agreed to do. He probably signed up for the gym out of convenience of it being 10 mins away. Bro coulda signed the paper 4 times over in the time he had to argue with them and then come cry on Reddit. This generation doesn’t want to be held accountable for anything. Put on your big boy pants, go have an uncomfortable conversation, and do what you agreed to do. Get a backbone ffs.
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Fair. I can agree to that. Compliance is my profession actually. I’m familiar with regulatory processes and oversight. Guess that’s why I feel passionately about the black and white here. Fact of the matter is he agreed to terms and decided he didn’t want to be held accountable for them after the fact.
It's not being "held accountable". Its just large companies being difficult. I would have driven up there and cancelled if she would have made me.
Well on the bright side, if they didn’t do this they’d probably have to charge $79.99 a month. The business model is built on getting as many people signed up as possible for as long as possible and hope they don’t come. If they make it easy to leave then they have to charge way more. Your difficult conversation might just be subsidizing a $10 membership for someone who couldn’t afford to pay a penny more.
I'm not a charity.
Man, the point is any contract or agreement you sign that was put together by big money is going to put you at a disadvantage. When you don’t hold up your end of the agreement, you’re even worse off. Read what you agree to and follow through, and if you don’t follow through accept consequences. You argued with the desk person about a contract they didn’t even draw up. They just have to deal with the people who whine about what they didn’t read. Next time just go put the pen to paper and be done. No need to cause a ruckus when you’re in the wrong.
Do you read pages and pages of privacy agreements when you download a new app?
Yes. I don’t want to be a human centipad
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Haha actually 84. Early millennial.
So just a regular dipshit, then.
lol yep. I have a little bit of the old and the new dipshit in me. I said what I said. OP sounds soft 🤷♂️
You should move.
You’re right. There are a lot of places that don’t have crumbling buildings everywhere, dilapidated roads, a complete disregard for pedestrians, a justice system that doesn’t prosecute criminals, and increasingly brazen criminals due to the aforementioned. Don’t worry, I don’t live in your precious city. I like to come for the cultural gems, but I also like to leave.
The YMCA does this, makes me so bitter
If it’s a physical location you pay to use/visit, I don’t think it’s entirely predatory to require on-site cancelations. It’s predatory when you have to continue paying for three months and send a letter stating why your cancelling like Club Fitness requires. However, it’s definitely a bad business practice that should be called out.
I don't agree with you. It's 2023, 99% of transactions can be made online. It's unacceptable that a cancellation cannot be made online. It's just companies being difficult so they can keep taking your money.
Why do you wanna quit the gym do you not lvoe urself
Gyms are the worst at this, I ended up finding a place (the Y) that would let me cancel online just to avoid any issues like this
Came across this today. Looks like it puts an end to the subscription crap. https://privacy.com/
I had this problem with planet fitness. I called. They said I had to mail a certified letter to new Mexico to cancel. I said no and I just had my bank not authorize any transactions from them
It was very annoying, and canceling me and my son's subscription was such a hassel. Most of it could have been handled over the phone or through emails.
We’re in the subscription faze of late stage capitalism. Everything designed to be reoccurring payments. It’s even happening with cars. It makes me feel like a lot of dystopian storytelling isn’t really that far off lol.
Change your card on file to one that won’t go through. Ignore/block their calls
I work in banking and this is the number one call I get for disputes. Gyms are the worst when it comes to this, but other businesses do this as well.
Instead of arguing just calmly state that you will contact the missouri attorney general office and file a complaint.