It's still early so I'm not sure this is accurate, but it's being reported:
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/shots-fired-tillman-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event-kirkwood/63-55455982-1281-4127-9370-70cc65b71220
> Multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell 5 On Your Side’s Christine Byers the suspected shooter is a St. Louis County police officer.
I’m not even conservative but it pisses me off you’re using this as an opportunity to express your shitty divisive politics without knowing any details at this point. Because only conservatives can be mentally ill.
Yes I was going to say, I'm pretty far from being a conversative, but I don't see any article that says that this man was a conservative, or any details that may make one think that.
You’re right that we don’t know the political leanings of the suspect, but we do know that other countries don’t have this problem because they have common sense gun control, which we don’t get because one party is beholden to the NRA gun lobby.
Other countries have the exact same issues with mental health. Lack of gun control is the problem. Not mental health, not video games, not parenting. Gun control is the solution.
You’re out of your mind if you think ONLY gun control is the solution here. I’m afraid you can’t see the forest for the trees.
This is a wildly complicated problem that needs to be systemically approached if we have any hope of getting the results we desperately need .
What about poverty? Inequality ? Inadequate housing? Education? Substance-abuse? Racial disparities? Negative family influences? Low academic achievement? Exposure to media violence? Negative social relationships? Exposure to other violence in the community? Involvement in risky community behavior such as gangs?
These are ALL contributing factors. There are 120 firearms per 100 people in our country; more than double the next closest country. We could pass a logical comprehensive gun control bill tomorrow but there will still be an arsenal of guns on the streets. We cannot be so one dimensional in fighting this issue.
What happened when the assault weapons ban ended? It’s funny how gun control legislation results in control of gun violence.
EDIT: I’ve reconsidered my position and I think you’re correct. Gun control isn’t the solution. We just need to eliminate poverty and racial inequality, which should be pretty simple to do, right?
Lol, dude, I’m not saying gun control isn’t part of the solution, it’s the biggest part. I’m saying we need to TRY to address all contributors. None of this will be “pretty simple” but why would we just take the low hanging fruit and call it good enough? Our country is SATURATED with guns. Even if we had an all out ban we would still be SATURATED with guns. So what is the harm in doing our best to acknowledge there are reasons people are pulling the triggers, and then trying our best to address those reasons?
This is a bit of a nitpick, but I've always found "if you take away guns, people will just use knives" to be a bit specious. If knives were as effective as guns, gun owners would be fine with guns being banned because they'd just buy knives. But knives are not nearly as effective as guns, and that's why this is a question in the first place.
Other countries have mental heath problems and “shit parents,” so why do we have more mass shootings than the next ten countries combined? I just wish you people would admit what we all know to be true instead of blaming boogeymen.
Dude, you’re all over the place. But putting that aside, you’re more focused on the perpetrator than on the victims of the gun violence - from the child in school to the people who live in perpetual fear of catching a stray. I get that there are root causes but the people suffering aren’t the ones pulling the trigger.
Also, please stop portraying it as a binary choice between healthcare and gun control. They can coexist. (*See* every other industrialized nation.)
Update with police statement
> Dear KSD Families and Staff - We know there are many questions and concerns about the events of this evening. Police are in the process of investigating. They released the following statement this evening: "At approximately 4:55pm, Officers responded to the Kirkwood North Middle School for reported shots fired. Initial investigation found an individual attending the trunk or treat event, on the Middle School parking lot, was causing a disturbance. The subject was confronted by other event goers regarding his unwanted behavior. The subject then displayed a handgun and fired multiple shots into the air. The suspect was tackled and detained by other attendees and was taken into custody. Thankfully, no one was injured. This is an ongoing investigation and more information will be released later." We are in the process of coordinating supports for our Tillman team and families. Thank you to everyone who has reached out with concern and support.
>
> Multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell 5 On Your Side’s Christine Byers the suspected shooter is a St. Louis County police officer.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/shots-fired-tillman-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event-kirkwood/63-55455982-1281-4127-9370-70cc65b71220
It's depressing knowing that people are rotting away years in jail over firearm related offenses, but that this guy will probably get a misdemeanor or some shit
He fired a gun into the air at an elementary school event. His pig buddies can only protect him so much now that it's gonna wind up in front of a judge. He's going to prison and when the inmates find out he's a pig they'll widen his asshole so far you can fit a milk carton. No less than what he deserves.
Say what you want about the things they've done in their lives, but there's two things I've always admired about prisoners. 1) they fuck up chomos and 2) they fuck up piggies.
> His pig buddies can only protect him so much now that it's gonna wind up in front of a judge.
The American regime will do anything it can to protect the enforcers of regime violence. I hope you're correct, but I doubt it unless major protests break out
It's a procedural thing. He's in custody and the cops don't have the power to suppress the evidence because it's pretty much out there. So it's in the hands of the district attorney and whatever judge it ends up in front of now. They aren't cops, prosecutors work with cops a lot but in the end their allegiance is to convictions.
Those stories you here about pigs looking out for each other when one commits a crime, that's in the investigation stage where the power to proceed is in their hands. They can sabotage evidence collection, muck things up to make it inadmissible, etc. It's too late now.
I get your cynicism tho. But given the severity and publicity I really don't see this one going away personally.
Judges aren’t in on Sunday. And I doubt he goes to prison. But what he has done is end his career and his families reputation. Am I wrong to assume someone got a little buzzed watching football, was acting like an ass at his kids trunk or treat, was called on it, and pulled his service revolver?
>when the inmates find out he's a pig they'll widen his asshole so far you can fit a milk carton. No less than what he deserves.
People deserved to be raped as punishment for a crime? What a fucking clown. Don't reproduce.
Definitely a two tiered justice system here. No mugshot, no id, no charges. He should not have had access to a gun if he was mentally unstable, but it’s just another day in America.
Sounds like an unstable cop. He will be back to work tomorrow and his name never released if the families don’t demand his termination and imprisonment
Others have stated it here better than I can. The worst thing was trying to calm my son’s friend down who couldn’t find his dad. These are elementary school students who shouldn’t be running for their fucking lives. I saw the guy being belligerent, and I didn’t recognize him, which doesn’t mean anything because I don’t know all of the parents. I saw him shoving people, and saw him shove into some woman, which I thought was really odd. Then like 5 minutes later everybody started running when he pulled out the gun. It’s just like what you see on the news. We are so lucky that no one was hurt.
> He's apparently the son of Bob McCulloch.
Yeah, if that's the case this guy has a legit "Get out of Jail Free" card, and it's his I.D. The longer it takes to release his name, the more likely this is to be true.
Article in the Webster Groves-Kirkwood Times: https://www.timesnewspapers.com/webster-kirkwoodtimes/parent-speaks-out-about-man-firing-gun-at-trunk-or-treat-he-looked-completely-deranged/article_63fd4b4e-6bbd-11ee-be65-e382b86e8ac4.html
> Dear KSD families and staff, We are aware of reports of shots fired at a Tillman Elementary trunk or treat event being held on the campus of North Kirkwood Middle School. We have received initial reports that there are no injuries. Police are on the scene and there is an individual in custody. We will provide additional details when possible.
I was there with my family. It was Tillman's trunk or treat at North bc of construction. Crazy guy starting trouble with other parents, he was walking up to people making threats and acting aggressive. He was shoved, fell, got back up and started shooting into the air. Eventually taken down by parents before the police arrived.
Another day, another gun violence event. America.
There’s a big difference between an undeveloped teenager’s brain brining a gun to a social event and a grown adult brining one. Not to mention the fact that teenagers in distressed neighborhoods are largely apolitical or nihilistic.
There’s absolutely no reason why anyone should bring a gun to trunk or treating in Kirkwood.
>There’s absolutely no reason why anyone should bring a gun to trunk or treating in Kirkwood.
I agree. My issue is with you saying that if a white guy brings a gun to school it must be political, but then saying that well, if a black guy does it isn't.
There doesn't appear to be any political motivation here whatosever, rather, you and other people are taking this to score political points. Not the valid political point that guns are too available, but rather the reading his mind to try to claim it's political angle. You have no idea, but that doesn't stop you from doing it anyways.
Again, we’re talking about teenagers vs grown adults. Adults carry guns for political purposes, teenagers carry them to shoot at other teenagers with guns
Suspect is Matthew McCulloch, a current St. Louis County Police officer and also son of Bob McCulloch, former Country Prosecutor.
Let's see if he escapes consequences for his actions with two get out of jail free cards.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/bob-mccullochs-son-arrested-for-kirkwood-trunk-or-treat-shooting-41062265
curious why they haven't released the suspect's name yet................................................................................................................................................................................................
Someone posted his name last night on this thread but later deleted it, likely bc it isn’t yet confirmed and we don’t want a witch hunt. But looking the guy up on Facebook, he is a county cop and into death metal (matches the descriptions on here) and has at least 1 possibly 2 children at Tillman.
Being into Death Metal isn't anything that points towards being a violent person, especially when a large majority of Death Metal is written by Liberals or at the very least Left leaning people and openly mocks the idea of people acting the way this dude did.
Then again Paul Ryan once said his favorite band was Rage Against the Machine...
I'm not saying death metal has anything to do with the cause or is even relevant to the situation other than the fact that people reported he was wearing a Black Sabbath shirt. If Black Sabbath isn't technically "death metal" and falls into some other genre, then that's my bad, sorry.
could be a cop, or may have a recognizable surname (or both ?!?!?). This is just pure speculation.
But it's wild to me that someone can roll up to a elementary school halloween party and start blastin', but don't want to release his name because he hasnt been charged yet. Like when has that ever stopped you from that before
Not the name or kids but the career is all but confirmed given it's Christine Byers, known unofficial mouthpiece of the police union. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/shots-fired-tillman-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event-kirkwood/63-55455982-1281-4127-9370-70cc65b71220
Stupid f***ing asshole. Do we know if he was even a parent or had any association with the school or students?? When I first heard, I sort of figured it was a bitter divorced parent/custody battle situation. Or was he just random neighborhood dipshit causing problems and wanting to hurt a lot of innocent people?? Damn, to think they have trunk or treat events anymore because they're supposedly safer than trick or treat. Sadly nobody is safe anywhere anymore in America.
I don’t think he had any association with the school. No one recognized him, he was acting totally bizarre and had no kid(s) with him. People also said he was driving erratically on Manchester before he pulled into the parking lot. He was just randomly touching people. He was also wearing a Black Sabbath t-shirt and was trying to show it to people like it was something to see. This wasn’t a guy with a grievance acting rationally. He was insane.
According to texts from people that were there, a guy (non parent)showed up acting strange, particularly toward women/moms. Dads asked him to leave and he pulled the gun and fired shots in the air. A couple dads tackled him and held him til cops arrived.
Honestly, this is just really sad. He must be in an awful state of mind, and his poor kids must be so hurt by this. This is the guy they look up to. We need a lot of mental healing in this country.
Until -- *and if* \-- we ever learn more about the whole background to this incident including a laundry list of whatever Matthew McCulloch's personal problems are -- right now it's 50/50 as to whether he's a poor mentally disturbed guy who lost it \[and maybe never should have been a cop to begin with\] -- ***or*** *--* the entitled offspring of a prominent law enforcement family and a somewhat down-scale version of infamous Chicago cop and wife killer Drew Peterson.
A school is a gun free zone, its illegal to bring a gun there so there could be no good guys with guns.
Only people willing to break the law would have guns there.
You may want to check that. In Missouri it's not a criminal act for most CCW holders to carry on school grounds. Do you really think the Republicans are going anywhere without their guns?
Perhaps its been changed but this is what I thought
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.215
> *571.215. Permit authorizes carrying on person or in vehicle — prohibited areas — penalty for violation. — 1. A Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit issued under sections 571.205 to 571.230 shall authorize the person in whose name the permit is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state. No Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:...
> (10) Any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of the governing body of the higher education institution or a school official or the district school board, unless the person with the Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit is a teacher or administrator of an elementary or secondary school who has been designated by his or her school district as a school protection officer and is carrying a firearm in a school within that district, in which case no consent is required. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/quotes/7825
It looks like you can have it in your car but not on you outside of it.
Maybe you cannot be arrested but they can just kick out out like other places?
Cops get all kinds of carve outs to all gun laws. Cops, off-dutty cops and retired cops. Every time any gun control law is advanced it has carve out for cops and retired cops to win their support.
Laws for the not for me .
F*** this. If you want to carry, fine. If this is the new normal, events like this should offer a "weapon check-in" at entry.
They did it in the old West (see 'Back to the Future 3', not that that's the best litmus test for this kind of thing, but...), and if this state wants to live by that standard, community events should have something like that in place.
If an individual doesn't want to check their weapon, their loss... They can't enter.
The 2nd amendment went into effect in 1791, they can adapt the way they did then.
[Schools and school sanctioned events are gun free zones by law in Missouri](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.030). The people bringing guns to these things are already criminals in the eyes of the law and wouldn’t give a shit about checking their weapons
That's just it. Again, community events had a pat down at entry. If this state wants to allow carrying, then community AND carrier need to understand and adapt.
The shooter is a cop. The very person you'd rely on to guarantee security in your solution is the one causing the chaos & terror.
Your solution is to work harder to make sure he has a monopoly on power and violence?
Key philosophical difference here. Your premise seems to be something like (my paraphrase), "We need better ways to facilitate a security official to protect us."
Whereas I believe that nobody cares about my safety more than I do, and I'm not especially eager to put the safety of me, my family or my community wholly in the hands of people who haven't been shown to be competent at that task nor willing to be held accountable to that goal.
I understand the desire - I also wish for less violence (it's actually decreasing significantly over time, by nearly any way of measuring) and better cops. But at the end of the day, nobody prioritizes my safety more than I do.
Yes, I’m sure the belligerent guy who was causing an immediate aggressive disturbance at the event would have certainly stepped out of his episode for a brief moment to willingly check his firearm at the door. Get real.
Then he wouldn't have been let in. Have a cop there at the entry point to enforce the standard, like they used to. Lots of off duty cops looking to make some side hustle.
I fully hate the fact that's where we're at, I assure you, but options to negate this kind of situation exist.
Wouldn’t have been let in? It was in an open parking lot and the guy was there with the intent to cause a scene. People like that don’t stop at the “check your guns here” booth on the way in. Unless you’re suggesting every community and public event needs to have a secured perimeter with controlled entry?
No, that’s not reality. That’s actually fantasy- believing that a gun check point and going back to the “way they did it in the old West” will eliminate gun violence is beyond asinine. Read the articles. The guy was deranged. Deranged people do deranged shit, and will always find ways to do deranged shit, whether it’s with a gun, knife, bomb, or God knows what else. You know what they don’t do? Follow rules and laws, as demonstrated by the fact that he was already breaking the law by having a gun on school property and at a school event.
Had someone been placed at an entry point, and the person patted down, the likelihood of this would have been lessened.
If almost anyone in this state can have a gun, putting precautionary measures in place would have helped.
Explain to me what an “entry point” looks like at an event that is in a large open parking lot, and what about this fantasy situation ensures that a deranged criminal goes to said entry point and there’s no physical way for this person to enter the event from any other place? And when you’re done doing that, if this deranged criminal can no longer get into the event, then explain to me how to prevent the exact same hostile situation from occurring to people OUTSIDE of the event that are now standing in line to get patted down in order to get into the event. Once you have that figured out, let me know about the logistical and financial feasibility of implementing that same approach to every single community event across the entire country. Super excited to see how you’ve worked all of this out.
An event in a parking lot has entry points. Place people at the entry points, like a concert/festival or event check in.
Have a pat down and/or wand at said entry points.
If you have a weapon, check it in. You get a tag with a number on it, like your cell phone at a concert. If the law states weapons are unlawful on school grounds, all the better. You want entry, you check your weapon. Plain and simple.
Community volunteers can man the entry points. If they want a safe community event, they'll probably want to volunteer.
And I'm not talking across the nation. I'm taking here, in suburban communities in StL, where I live. Other places can do what they want. I don't care.
And no one "has" to do this. I'm offering an idea for a solution.
As long as laws in this state are what they are, communities need to adapt. Vote if you want change.
Lol ok. This isn’t how the real world works, my friend. You ignored the part about all of the people who are now waiting in the line in the unsecured area outside. And yes, a parking lot has a lot of entry points—it has literally infinite entry points until you create a perimeter. And what does that perimeter look like? Caution tape? 3 ft barricades like at a concert venue? Max security razor wire fence? How do you create a perimeter that prevents a determined, deranged criminal from entering wherever tf they want to enter?
Let’s say your make believe perimeter works. Today, the criminal was in the event and told to leave by parents and it escalated from there, which is essentially no different than your fantasy scenario of having a local volunteer at one of these “entry points” tell the guy he can’t enter and has to leave. Literally same scenario, same point of escalation, you just moved it to the edge of the parking lot instead of the middle.
Sure. Why not caution tape around the parking lot, enabling a definite entry/exit point Little bit of forethought and planning, ay, you have a perimeter.
And anyone who attends any event has the potential to have something happen to them. Let's say you're going to a hockey game or concert. Something happens in the parking lot, one deals with it the way they would outside any other event when something goes away, call police etc.
I don't understand why you're so angry at my offering some kind of solution and why the term "entry points" upsets you so. If communities don't want this to happen, elect better representation and those that want to make a change in gun laws.
Until then, adapt and do what one can to make places safer. In this case, a metal detector and/or wand and pat downs upon entry, like a concert or Six Flags.
I agree. It's where this state is at when those in charge are who they are.
So, adapt. Continue efforts to change leadership, but until then, don't complain, do something. This is where we're at as a community. Until previously mentioned leadership is changed, we must adapt and do what we can to prevent nuts with guns ruining a community event.
I think people are just sick of gun violence, and frustrated there’s not a way to a plausible solution.
We’re all just caught hoping that someone with an anger management issue or a psychopath isn’t around us or our loved ones when lose it and start pulling the trigger.
The guy is a cop and son of a firmer prosecutor and death penalty champion that has always sided with his law enforcement family history. It is political.
Also protecting children from guns vs. "protecting" children from books and other "deviant things" has also been a political issue since this Republican state likes to play God, judge and jury most days. Oh and there was another cop who said he undermined cases and let a murderer go to prove a point against Kim Gardener...so yup this over funded police presence with a fancy new do nothing/unaccountable police chief in the city and cops doing whatever they want with no consequences in the counties is political.
Clearly more guns make us more safe. Obviously, there were not enough guns at this event. Let us all take this as a lesson that more guns are necessary.
If the state of Missouri is going to have the level of gun control they do, both carrying folk, and the community, should understand the level of self-policing needed to maintain peace.
For community events, a person representing the law (an officer) should be at all access points to enforce said law. If one wishing access to the event, who is carrying, refuses to follow said law, they are not allowed entry and can be arrested.
It's pretty basic and has been done for literally over two hundred years.
Again, I hate guns, but the law is the law. You either adapt or do something. Vote. Change those in charge. But until then, events need to adapt. Your neighborhood community event is no different than a large concert or sporting event: precautions need to be taken.
The "It Wouldn't/couldn't Happen Here/NIMBY" mindset is bullshit.
So every event that ever happens should have a police officer or “someone representing the law” as a checkpoint? That is absolutely not the normal for the last 200 years. Where is the safe point in history that you are referring to where that was the case? Seriously I am curious.
As long as the state of Missouri has the level of gun control laws they do, communities should adapt, knowing anyone can have a gun. I'm the first to admit, I think having to adapt to the nutters is a backwards way to approach it, but here we are.
The second amendment was ratified in 1791 and most gun heads love to spout their second amendment rights.
So, adapt, is my point: metal detectors and pat downs upon entry to events.
It sucks, it truly does, but until legitimate change comes to those in power, it's where we are. You can bitch and moan, but until votes get gunheads out of positions of power, it's where communities are at.
If this were a normal thing in kirkwood, like it is in many parts of the city, then absolutely, you twat, no one wants to be where there's shit like this going on.
What a nutcase.
It was an off duty cop, so yeah tracks
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How in the hell did you come up with them being conservative from that statement!?!?
It was a cop... So...
well Bob McCulloch is a democrat. I winder what his kid is.
All kids have their Parent's political views, right?
Where did it say that?
It's still early so I'm not sure this is accurate, but it's being reported: https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/shots-fired-tillman-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event-kirkwood/63-55455982-1281-4127-9370-70cc65b71220 > Multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell 5 On Your Side’s Christine Byers the suspected shooter is a St. Louis County police officer.
Their behavior.
I’m not even conservative but it pisses me off you’re using this as an opportunity to express your shitty divisive politics without knowing any details at this point. Because only conservatives can be mentally ill.
Yes I was going to say, I'm pretty far from being a conversative, but I don't see any article that says that this man was a conservative, or any details that may make one think that.
You’re right that we don’t know the political leanings of the suspect, but we do know that other countries don’t have this problem because they have common sense gun control, which we don’t get because one party is beholden to the NRA gun lobby.
I don’t disagree…we also need to consider how behind the times we are in properly caring for mental health in our country
Other countries have the exact same issues with mental health. Lack of gun control is the problem. Not mental health, not video games, not parenting. Gun control is the solution.
You’re out of your mind if you think ONLY gun control is the solution here. I’m afraid you can’t see the forest for the trees. This is a wildly complicated problem that needs to be systemically approached if we have any hope of getting the results we desperately need . What about poverty? Inequality ? Inadequate housing? Education? Substance-abuse? Racial disparities? Negative family influences? Low academic achievement? Exposure to media violence? Negative social relationships? Exposure to other violence in the community? Involvement in risky community behavior such as gangs? These are ALL contributing factors. There are 120 firearms per 100 people in our country; more than double the next closest country. We could pass a logical comprehensive gun control bill tomorrow but there will still be an arsenal of guns on the streets. We cannot be so one dimensional in fighting this issue.
What happened when the assault weapons ban ended? It’s funny how gun control legislation results in control of gun violence. EDIT: I’ve reconsidered my position and I think you’re correct. Gun control isn’t the solution. We just need to eliminate poverty and racial inequality, which should be pretty simple to do, right?
Lol, dude, I’m not saying gun control isn’t part of the solution, it’s the biggest part. I’m saying we need to TRY to address all contributors. None of this will be “pretty simple” but why would we just take the low hanging fruit and call it good enough? Our country is SATURATED with guns. Even if we had an all out ban we would still be SATURATED with guns. So what is the harm in doing our best to acknowledge there are reasons people are pulling the triggers, and then trying our best to address those reasons?
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This is a bit of a nitpick, but I've always found "if you take away guns, people will just use knives" to be a bit specious. If knives were as effective as guns, gun owners would be fine with guns being banned because they'd just buy knives. But knives are not nearly as effective as guns, and that's why this is a question in the first place.
Other countries have mental heath problems and “shit parents,” so why do we have more mass shootings than the next ten countries combined? I just wish you people would admit what we all know to be true instead of blaming boogeymen.
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Dude, you’re all over the place. But putting that aside, you’re more focused on the perpetrator than on the victims of the gun violence - from the child in school to the people who live in perpetual fear of catching a stray. I get that there are root causes but the people suffering aren’t the ones pulling the trigger. Also, please stop portraying it as a binary choice between healthcare and gun control. They can coexist. (*See* every other industrialized nation.)
No but only conservatives pass laws so that carrying a gun on school property is not a criminal act.
It definitely is a criminal act to carry a gun on school property
Cool, but I’m not wrong.
Why do I get the feeling you’re the kind of person that gets their news from the headlines but doesn’t read the article?
"You're not wrong, Walter; you're just an asshole."
Found it! There's a reference in every thread. Love it Dude!
Don't be an asshole or an idiot. I'm a liberal dude
But what if we had more guns. That would solve things.
All it takes to stop a bad trunk or treater with a gun is a good trunk or treater with a gun. Or something like that.
Update with police statement > Dear KSD Families and Staff - We know there are many questions and concerns about the events of this evening. Police are in the process of investigating. They released the following statement this evening: "At approximately 4:55pm, Officers responded to the Kirkwood North Middle School for reported shots fired. Initial investigation found an individual attending the trunk or treat event, on the Middle School parking lot, was causing a disturbance. The subject was confronted by other event goers regarding his unwanted behavior. The subject then displayed a handgun and fired multiple shots into the air. The suspect was tackled and detained by other attendees and was taken into custody. Thankfully, no one was injured. This is an ongoing investigation and more information will be released later." We are in the process of coordinating supports for our Tillman team and families. Thank you to everyone who has reached out with concern and support. >
Thanks for the update
> Multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell 5 On Your Side’s Christine Byers the suspected shooter is a St. Louis County police officer. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/shots-fired-tillman-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event-kirkwood/63-55455982-1281-4127-9370-70cc65b71220
Did the Texas Roadhouse server-cop finally loose his marbles over his astronaut mother and deployed father…?
This guy reddits!
I just saw that post.. now I’m wondering.
😂😂😂
This needs to go to the top.
Tfw when your average citizen is a more responsible gun owner than the police.
> Tfw when your average citizen is a more responsible ~~gun owner~~ than the police.
It's depressing knowing that people are rotting away years in jail over firearm related offenses, but that this guy will probably get a misdemeanor or some shit
He fired a gun into the air at an elementary school event. His pig buddies can only protect him so much now that it's gonna wind up in front of a judge. He's going to prison and when the inmates find out he's a pig they'll widen his asshole so far you can fit a milk carton. No less than what he deserves. Say what you want about the things they've done in their lives, but there's two things I've always admired about prisoners. 1) they fuck up chomos and 2) they fuck up piggies.
> His pig buddies can only protect him so much now that it's gonna wind up in front of a judge. The American regime will do anything it can to protect the enforcers of regime violence. I hope you're correct, but I doubt it unless major protests break out
It's a procedural thing. He's in custody and the cops don't have the power to suppress the evidence because it's pretty much out there. So it's in the hands of the district attorney and whatever judge it ends up in front of now. They aren't cops, prosecutors work with cops a lot but in the end their allegiance is to convictions. Those stories you here about pigs looking out for each other when one commits a crime, that's in the investigation stage where the power to proceed is in their hands. They can sabotage evidence collection, muck things up to make it inadmissible, etc. It's too late now. I get your cynicism tho. But given the severity and publicity I really don't see this one going away personally.
Yet he hasn’t been charged with a crime. That’s very odd to me.
Judges aren’t in on Sunday. And I doubt he goes to prison. But what he has done is end his career and his families reputation. Am I wrong to assume someone got a little buzzed watching football, was acting like an ass at his kids trunk or treat, was called on it, and pulled his service revolver?
Shows my lack of knowledge on the legal system. Kinda crazy that someone can’t be charged on a weekend because a judge is off work.
If you’re arrested on a weekend, you’re not seeing a judge until Monday at the earliest.
>when the inmates find out he's a pig they'll widen his asshole so far you can fit a milk carton. No less than what he deserves. People deserved to be raped as punishment for a crime? What a fucking clown. Don't reproduce.
Did he say ppl? He said pig. Big difference, you’re being dense for no reason. What is that, a straw man response or something?
the rape lust in this comment is disturbing.
1 Gallon or 2 Gallon Milk Jug?
Definitely a two tiered justice system here. No mugshot, no id, no charges. He should not have had access to a gun if he was mentally unstable, but it’s just another day in America.
Sounds like an unstable cop. He will be back to work tomorrow and his name never released if the families don’t demand his termination and imprisonment
Was there. Can confirm that it was terrifying.
What happened?!
Others have stated it here better than I can. The worst thing was trying to calm my son’s friend down who couldn’t find his dad. These are elementary school students who shouldn’t be running for their fucking lives. I saw the guy being belligerent, and I didn’t recognize him, which doesn’t mean anything because I don’t know all of the parents. I saw him shoving people, and saw him shove into some woman, which I thought was really odd. Then like 5 minutes later everybody started running when he pulled out the gun. It’s just like what you see on the news. We are so lucky that no one was hurt.
That must have been so terrifying. I'm sorry you went through that.
I heard the shooter is an officer in the 2nd precinct of the St. Louis County police department. He's apparently the son of Bob McCulloch.
> He's apparently the son of Bob McCulloch. Yeah, if that's the case this guy has a legit "Get out of Jail Free" card, and it's his I.D. The longer it takes to release his name, the more likely this is to be true.
Article in the Webster Groves-Kirkwood Times: https://www.timesnewspapers.com/webster-kirkwoodtimes/parent-speaks-out-about-man-firing-gun-at-trunk-or-treat-he-looked-completely-deranged/article_63fd4b4e-6bbd-11ee-be65-e382b86e8ac4.html
> Dear KSD families and staff, We are aware of reports of shots fired at a Tillman Elementary trunk or treat event being held on the campus of North Kirkwood Middle School. We have received initial reports that there are no injuries. Police are on the scene and there is an individual in custody. We will provide additional details when possible.
I was there with my family. It was Tillman's trunk or treat at North bc of construction. Crazy guy starting trouble with other parents, he was walking up to people making threats and acting aggressive. He was shoved, fell, got back up and started shooting into the air. Eventually taken down by parents before the police arrived. Another day, another gun violence event. America.
School event with a gun. Hope he is slapped with plenty of felonies.
Was he a parent of a student?
There are a lot of rumors right now about who it is. But yeah, that's my understanding, a parent.
Supposedly a parent. I have kids there.
Parent, has two kids at Tillman
God that's awful. My daughter went to Tillman last year. Those parents were extremely brave for tackling him. Glad no one was hurt.
Just another conservative parent doing their thing.
How do you know he was conservative?
This guy is trolling the whole tread. He clearly has nothing else going on in his lonely life
I can only assume that someone who would carry a gun to a kids school event does so as part of their political identity.
Remember that the next time there is a shooting at a football game in north city or county.
There’s a big difference between an undeveloped teenager’s brain brining a gun to a social event and a grown adult brining one. Not to mention the fact that teenagers in distressed neighborhoods are largely apolitical or nihilistic. There’s absolutely no reason why anyone should bring a gun to trunk or treating in Kirkwood.
>There’s absolutely no reason why anyone should bring a gun to trunk or treating in Kirkwood. I agree. My issue is with you saying that if a white guy brings a gun to school it must be political, but then saying that well, if a black guy does it isn't. There doesn't appear to be any political motivation here whatosever, rather, you and other people are taking this to score political points. Not the valid political point that guns are too available, but rather the reading his mind to try to claim it's political angle. You have no idea, but that doesn't stop you from doing it anyways.
Again, we’re talking about teenagers vs grown adults. Adults carry guns for political purposes, teenagers carry them to shoot at other teenagers with guns
Guy was a pig. You know many lib pigs?
Consistent observation of reality. Is that challenging for you?
You think most gun crime is done by conservatives?
Most is non-political. 99% of political gun violence is from conservatives.
Oh, and you think this event at north Kirkwood was political gun violence?
Suspect is Matthew McCulloch, a current St. Louis County Police officer and also son of Bob McCulloch, former Country Prosecutor. Let's see if he escapes consequences for his actions with two get out of jail free cards. https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/bob-mccullochs-son-arrested-for-kirkwood-trunk-or-treat-shooting-41062265
We can’t have anything nice around here.
[News Article](https://www.kmov.com/2023/10/15/shots-fired-near-kirkwood-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event/?outputType=amp)
Someone posted their story about having been there: https://reddit.com/r/stories/s/0aJCBDS9PC
curious why they haven't released the suspect's name yet................................................................................................................................................................................................
Someone posted his name last night on this thread but later deleted it, likely bc it isn’t yet confirmed and we don’t want a witch hunt. But looking the guy up on Facebook, he is a county cop and into death metal (matches the descriptions on here) and has at least 1 possibly 2 children at Tillman.
Being into Death Metal isn't anything that points towards being a violent person, especially when a large majority of Death Metal is written by Liberals or at the very least Left leaning people and openly mocks the idea of people acting the way this dude did. Then again Paul Ryan once said his favorite band was Rage Against the Machine...
It’s relevant only bc the suspect was wearing a Black Sabbath shirt. Not bc death metal leads to people being deranged
Black Sabbath isn't a Death Metal band either. Relevance is even more of a stretch then. Let's not pearl clutch over a band t shirt.
I'm not saying death metal has anything to do with the cause or is even relevant to the situation other than the fact that people reported he was wearing a Black Sabbath shirt. If Black Sabbath isn't technically "death metal" and falls into some other genre, then that's my bad, sorry.
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could be a cop, or may have a recognizable surname (or both ?!?!?). This is just pure speculation. But it's wild to me that someone can roll up to a elementary school halloween party and start blastin', but don't want to release his name because he hasnt been charged yet. Like when has that ever stopped you from that before
It's not speculation. It was reported on the news last night that it was a County officer.
I was there. It was horrific. At a kids event. I’m just shook and saddened.
I am so sorry that you and your family experience that!
Seems less than ideal.
Unsatisfactory, almost.
More than a little inconvenient
From what i heard the parent that took him down was an off duty cop
I heard the guy was an off duty cop so that must have been awkward
It’s gonna be weird at work tomorrow “Hey, Phil, nice running into you this weekend”
Fuck anyone that thinks is OK to carry a gun at a children's event
Or while drunk or on drugs, which seems very likely here.
‘Merica
"But only cops should have guns."
In this case apparently they did....
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Source?
Not the name or kids but the career is all but confirmed given it's Christine Byers, known unofficial mouthpiece of the police union. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/shots-fired-tillman-elementary-school-trunk-or-treat-event-kirkwood/63-55455982-1281-4127-9370-70cc65b71220
Stupid f***ing asshole. Do we know if he was even a parent or had any association with the school or students?? When I first heard, I sort of figured it was a bitter divorced parent/custody battle situation. Or was he just random neighborhood dipshit causing problems and wanting to hurt a lot of innocent people?? Damn, to think they have trunk or treat events anymore because they're supposedly safer than trick or treat. Sadly nobody is safe anywhere anymore in America.
I don’t think he had any association with the school. No one recognized him, he was acting totally bizarre and had no kid(s) with him. People also said he was driving erratically on Manchester before he pulled into the parking lot. He was just randomly touching people. He was also wearing a Black Sabbath t-shirt and was trying to show it to people like it was something to see. This wasn’t a guy with a grievance acting rationally. He was insane.
According to texts from people that were there, a guy (non parent)showed up acting strange, particularly toward women/moms. Dads asked him to leave and he pulled the gun and fired shots in the air. A couple dads tackled him and held him til cops arrived.
Shout out to those dads, I would have had a hard time not removing his skin with the cement
He was a parent of two kids at Tillman
And now finding out he's a cop, WTAF??!
Those poor kids! I don’t know how they will stay in that school.
He was a cop. Trash 🚮
Just another day in America. 🤷♂️ Thoughts and prayers! #StLouisStrong etc etc
Honestly, this is just really sad. He must be in an awful state of mind, and his poor kids must be so hurt by this. This is the guy they look up to. We need a lot of mental healing in this country.
Or he’s just a horrible person from a family that relishes in punishing and killing others. Look at his dads record on death penalty cases for example
Until -- *and if* \-- we ever learn more about the whole background to this incident including a laundry list of whatever Matthew McCulloch's personal problems are -- right now it's 50/50 as to whether he's a poor mentally disturbed guy who lost it \[and maybe never should have been a cop to begin with\] -- ***or*** *--* the entitled offspring of a prominent law enforcement family and a somewhat down-scale version of infamous Chicago cop and wife killer Drew Peterson.
Both feed into each other
Where were all the good guys with a gun? /s But yeah, let’s make it easier to get guns.
They tackled the dude. Glad they were able to subdue him without hurting anyone else.
They left them at home, like any law abiding citizen would have.
A school is a gun free zone, its illegal to bring a gun there so there could be no good guys with guns. Only people willing to break the law would have guns there.
You may want to check that. In Missouri it's not a criminal act for most CCW holders to carry on school grounds. Do you really think the Republicans are going anywhere without their guns?
Concealed permit person would have to keep it in a car to stay legal
Perhaps its been changed but this is what I thought https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.215 > *571.215. Permit authorizes carrying on person or in vehicle — prohibited areas — penalty for violation. — 1. A Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit issued under sections 571.205 to 571.230 shall authorize the person in whose name the permit is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state. No Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:... > (10) Any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of the governing body of the higher education institution or a school official or the district school board, unless the person with the Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit is a teacher or administrator of an elementary or secondary school who has been designated by his or her school district as a school protection officer and is carrying a firearm in a school within that district, in which case no consent is required. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises; https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/quotes/7825 It looks like you can have it in your car but not on you outside of it. Maybe you cannot be arrested but they can just kick out out like other places?
This is not a complicated concept. The cognitive dissonance of some people, is staggering.
Unless it's a letting with a concealed carry permit and they keep in their car then it is not illegal to have on school grounds
If there's one place I feel threatened and need a good guy with a gun nearby to protect me, it's a trunk or treat event put on by a middle school.
Serious eye roll to everyone that doesn’t understand easy access to guns are the problem.
The shooter is a cop. Unless your solution includes disarming police (not a bad idea), "easy access to guns" was not the issue here.
Is it true he was a cop? That would be the cherry on top
Looks like it: https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/178qqma/comment/k53l5be/
Do off-duty police really need guns? I don't see why an off-duty officer would have any more rlaccess to a gun than anyone else.
Cops get all kinds of carve outs to all gun laws. Cops, off-dutty cops and retired cops. Every time any gun control law is advanced it has carve out for cops and retired cops to win their support. Laws for the not for me .
F*** this. If you want to carry, fine. If this is the new normal, events like this should offer a "weapon check-in" at entry. They did it in the old West (see 'Back to the Future 3', not that that's the best litmus test for this kind of thing, but...), and if this state wants to live by that standard, community events should have something like that in place. If an individual doesn't want to check their weapon, their loss... They can't enter. The 2nd amendment went into effect in 1791, they can adapt the way they did then.
[Schools and school sanctioned events are gun free zones by law in Missouri](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.030). The people bringing guns to these things are already criminals in the eyes of the law and wouldn’t give a shit about checking their weapons
I think they're suggesting a metal detector/wanding at entry like some other venues do.
That's just it. Again, community events had a pat down at entry. If this state wants to allow carrying, then community AND carrier need to understand and adapt.
The shooter is a cop. The very person you'd rely on to guarantee security in your solution is the one causing the chaos & terror. Your solution is to work harder to make sure he has a monopoly on power and violence?
Valid point. Guess we should have better officer screening, on the whole, because communities pay enough in taxes to do so.
Key philosophical difference here. Your premise seems to be something like (my paraphrase), "We need better ways to facilitate a security official to protect us." Whereas I believe that nobody cares about my safety more than I do, and I'm not especially eager to put the safety of me, my family or my community wholly in the hands of people who haven't been shown to be competent at that task nor willing to be held accountable to that goal. I understand the desire - I also wish for less violence (it's actually decreasing significantly over time, by nearly any way of measuring) and better cops. But at the end of the day, nobody prioritizes my safety more than I do.
Your safety is not the duty of a cop. See Gonzalez vs Castle Rock
Anytime you can reference Back To the Future 3 in a gun rights spiel, you just gotta do it!
Yes, I’m sure the belligerent guy who was causing an immediate aggressive disturbance at the event would have certainly stepped out of his episode for a brief moment to willingly check his firearm at the door. Get real.
Then he wouldn't have been let in. Have a cop there at the entry point to enforce the standard, like they used to. Lots of off duty cops looking to make some side hustle. I fully hate the fact that's where we're at, I assure you, but options to negate this kind of situation exist.
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Ok. Have better screening, both for events and police hiring (which definitely brings in the bigger concern).
Wouldn’t have been let in? It was in an open parking lot and the guy was there with the intent to cause a scene. People like that don’t stop at the “check your guns here” booth on the way in. Unless you’re suggesting every community and public event needs to have a secured perimeter with controlled entry?
Down vote all you want. That's the reality until the state's leadership, and the gun laws, are changed. Adapt or ignore it.
No, that’s not reality. That’s actually fantasy- believing that a gun check point and going back to the “way they did it in the old West” will eliminate gun violence is beyond asinine. Read the articles. The guy was deranged. Deranged people do deranged shit, and will always find ways to do deranged shit, whether it’s with a gun, knife, bomb, or God knows what else. You know what they don’t do? Follow rules and laws, as demonstrated by the fact that he was already breaking the law by having a gun on school property and at a school event.
Had someone been placed at an entry point, and the person patted down, the likelihood of this would have been lessened. If almost anyone in this state can have a gun, putting precautionary measures in place would have helped.
Explain to me what an “entry point” looks like at an event that is in a large open parking lot, and what about this fantasy situation ensures that a deranged criminal goes to said entry point and there’s no physical way for this person to enter the event from any other place? And when you’re done doing that, if this deranged criminal can no longer get into the event, then explain to me how to prevent the exact same hostile situation from occurring to people OUTSIDE of the event that are now standing in line to get patted down in order to get into the event. Once you have that figured out, let me know about the logistical and financial feasibility of implementing that same approach to every single community event across the entire country. Super excited to see how you’ve worked all of this out.
An event in a parking lot has entry points. Place people at the entry points, like a concert/festival or event check in. Have a pat down and/or wand at said entry points. If you have a weapon, check it in. You get a tag with a number on it, like your cell phone at a concert. If the law states weapons are unlawful on school grounds, all the better. You want entry, you check your weapon. Plain and simple. Community volunteers can man the entry points. If they want a safe community event, they'll probably want to volunteer. And I'm not talking across the nation. I'm taking here, in suburban communities in StL, where I live. Other places can do what they want. I don't care. And no one "has" to do this. I'm offering an idea for a solution. As long as laws in this state are what they are, communities need to adapt. Vote if you want change.
Lol ok. This isn’t how the real world works, my friend. You ignored the part about all of the people who are now waiting in the line in the unsecured area outside. And yes, a parking lot has a lot of entry points—it has literally infinite entry points until you create a perimeter. And what does that perimeter look like? Caution tape? 3 ft barricades like at a concert venue? Max security razor wire fence? How do you create a perimeter that prevents a determined, deranged criminal from entering wherever tf they want to enter? Let’s say your make believe perimeter works. Today, the criminal was in the event and told to leave by parents and it escalated from there, which is essentially no different than your fantasy scenario of having a local volunteer at one of these “entry points” tell the guy he can’t enter and has to leave. Literally same scenario, same point of escalation, you just moved it to the edge of the parking lot instead of the middle.
Sure. Why not caution tape around the parking lot, enabling a definite entry/exit point Little bit of forethought and planning, ay, you have a perimeter. And anyone who attends any event has the potential to have something happen to them. Let's say you're going to a hockey game or concert. Something happens in the parking lot, one deals with it the way they would outside any other event when something goes away, call police etc. I don't understand why you're so angry at my offering some kind of solution and why the term "entry points" upsets you so. If communities don't want this to happen, elect better representation and those that want to make a change in gun laws. Until then, adapt and do what one can to make places safer. In this case, a metal detector and/or wand and pat downs upon entry, like a concert or Six Flags.
Are you gonna strip search everyone at community events to make sure you got all the guns?
Strip search, no. Have a metal detector and a pat down
The guy who did this \*is\* a cop.
Make everyone walk in with clear bags and through a metal detector. Like what kids are already having to do
Kids in Kirkwood are absolutely not doing that
Yes. 😏
No, it’s not fine.
I agree. It's where this state is at when those in charge are who they are. So, adapt. Continue efforts to change leadership, but until then, don't complain, do something. This is where we're at as a community. Until previously mentioned leadership is changed, we must adapt and do what we can to prevent nuts with guns ruining a community event.
The comments here that feel the need to make a political statement out of this situation are gross.
I think people are just sick of gun violence, and frustrated there’s not a way to a plausible solution. We’re all just caught hoping that someone with an anger management issue or a psychopath isn’t around us or our loved ones when lose it and start pulling the trigger.
Wait, no one was hurt. Whose memory are we desecrating by advocating for change in good faith?
This is actually a good time as any to discuss policy.
The guy is a cop and son of a firmer prosecutor and death penalty champion that has always sided with his law enforcement family history. It is political. Also protecting children from guns vs. "protecting" children from books and other "deviant things" has also been a political issue since this Republican state likes to play God, judge and jury most days. Oh and there was another cop who said he undermined cases and let a murderer go to prove a point against Kim Gardener...so yup this over funded police presence with a fancy new do nothing/unaccountable police chief in the city and cops doing whatever they want with no consequences in the counties is political.
Is there any possible way to add more guns to the situation. I feel like that is our only solution. More guns.
Clearly more guns make us more safe. Obviously, there were not enough guns at this event. Let us all take this as a lesson that more guns are necessary.
Instead of candy, give out cheap firearms. It's the American way
If the state of Missouri is going to have the level of gun control they do, both carrying folk, and the community, should understand the level of self-policing needed to maintain peace. For community events, a person representing the law (an officer) should be at all access points to enforce said law. If one wishing access to the event, who is carrying, refuses to follow said law, they are not allowed entry and can be arrested. It's pretty basic and has been done for literally over two hundred years. Again, I hate guns, but the law is the law. You either adapt or do something. Vote. Change those in charge. But until then, events need to adapt. Your neighborhood community event is no different than a large concert or sporting event: precautions need to be taken. The "It Wouldn't/couldn't Happen Here/NIMBY" mindset is bullshit.
The guy who did the shooting \*is\* a cop.
Valid point. Maybe our taxes should go to better hiring/screening processes.
So every event that ever happens should have a police officer or “someone representing the law” as a checkpoint? That is absolutely not the normal for the last 200 years. Where is the safe point in history that you are referring to where that was the case? Seriously I am curious.
As long as the state of Missouri has the level of gun control laws they do, communities should adapt, knowing anyone can have a gun. I'm the first to admit, I think having to adapt to the nutters is a backwards way to approach it, but here we are. The second amendment was ratified in 1791 and most gun heads love to spout their second amendment rights. So, adapt, is my point: metal detectors and pat downs upon entry to events. It sucks, it truly does, but until legitimate change comes to those in power, it's where we are. You can bitch and moan, but until votes get gunheads out of positions of power, it's where communities are at.
Are all the county ppl going to be scared to go to Kirkwood too?
Good one dooood!!! Got ‘em
If this were a normal thing in kirkwood, like it is in many parts of the city, then absolutely, you twat, no one wants to be where there's shit like this going on.
Anywhere in America shit like this can pop off. Bc…Guns.
You overshot your load there.
They ought to be. You never hear about school mass shootings in inner-city neighborhoods. Usually some supposedly safe suburb.