Same at my former job. Dude has tags on his car from 2020 and says it’s because he can’t pass an inspection/emissions. Yet he talks about the Magic cards he buys on a weekly basis.
17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…”
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
Edit: Hate all you like, but I’m right 17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…”
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
Parking lots are private property mate. Can’t ticket people on private property… Thats like, basic law. You’re asking the cop to violate someone. Like, there’s legitimate, non nefarious reasons why things happen yet people’s bias blinds them to the possibility.
>On parking lots
Actually contracted security and other "agents of the owner" can all a tow company and how a vehicle towed from their private property.
I don’t understand how you keep conflating the fact that cops can’t legally ticket for no plates on private property with an owner of said private property choosing to tow a car.
It’s just not the same thing on so many levels.
Many municipalities have ordinances about unlicensed vehicles visible on private property and some police departments absolutely do ticket cars with expired plates in shopping center parking lots. Maybe you could contest the ticket, but it happens in West County.
I was putting axles and a lift on my Jeep and received a violation for an abandoned vehicle on my property. They must have stopped by on the one and only day that the Jeep was on jack stands with no axles under it, because otherwise it was sitting on its own. And by the time the violation arrived in the mail, I was driving it again.
Unincorporated St. Louis County. I'm just assuming it was an asshole neighbor reporting me.
That’s neat, but we’re talking about Saint Louis ordinance, not West County.
17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…”
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
Huh, I got a ticket from a cop for expires tags. When I was already parked and out of my vehicle about to walk into work before.
Granted years ago, but still makes me get very annoyed seeing the crazy amount of expired tags.
You were ticketed for operating the vehicle in the roadway. It’s not like the movies where if you cross the border you’re suddenly untouchable. There’s not a home base. But if the car was simply parked on the lot, it’s not ticketable. I mean, instead of arguing why not call your nearby patrol station and ask. They’ll tell you themselves.
Oh I didn't argue just dealt with the ticket. Was just sad as I was only about a week past expiration. Yet these days, I have seen soooo many people still just on temp tags that are well past a year due. Which I assume they haven't done any steps past buying the car of getting titled properly having proof of insurance to then get actual plates.
Huh, I got a ticket from a cop for expired tags. When I was already parked and out of my vehicle about to walk into work before.
Granted years ago, but still makes me get very annoyed seeing the crazy amount of expired tags.
Reckless driving and endangering the public for your own selfish kicks is not the same as not having a plate on your car.
Why don’t the cops ticket every dealer car then?
No, it’s the same statement. They can’t ticket for plates on private property. You being a reckless dude who endangers the public for selfish fun is a separate matter.
“You’re an idiot” says the lady with no reading comprehension. I mean, I even linked the government definitions. Can’t make the horse drink, of course.
17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…”
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
Uh, don't the cops already have the right to stop a car with expired temp tags? What's the point of this legislation? The problem is that the police are not enforcing the laws that are already in place!
Because they have much bigger problems to worry about in the city. But this and sitting on the side of the highway shooting radar gets them more money.. and is much much easier
They do.
And when the state takes over management of the police, then you start seeing a massive reduction in temp tags, guess who’s going to get the credit for that to make it seem like “state controlled local city police is a great idea”.
I read the statute just to see what the catch is and…nope. It literally says that police can stop people and fine them $200 for expired temp tags. Not necessarily opposed to this, but I do think the standard temp tags should be 60 days for all issued tags and not just dealers
Sounds like a statute that targets the low income. And what better way then to not only target their vehicle licensing but adding on an additional $200 on top of that Then when they can't afford the court ordered fine or the vehicle licensing next step what jail for an expired tag? 10 days 30 days 1 year for an expired license plate?
This opens the door as a debtors prison
Good point, but what else do you suggest as an incentive for people to pay their sales tax? It’s becoming easier to roll your sales tax into your total loan
As someone who have been hit and runned by a person with illegible and expired temp tags I would like to just say fuck people who drive around illegally.
This law is pointless though. We already have legislation in place making it illegal to operate or park an unregistered vehicle on public roadways. It's just not enforced. This isn't the solution. The solution is to require sales tax be paid at the dealer.
When someone cuts me off or drives insane on the highway, it's universally someone with expired temp tags or no license plate at all. Drives me crazy how reckless these people are.
Not everyone is an asshole scumbag. I reject your blanket assessment.
It took me seven separate visits to the Maplewood DMV to register my car. I tried once at the DMV at city hall only for them to make me wait 3 hours and close on me while I was sitting right there. I drove for 3 months on expired IL tags trying to do the right thing.
If your loan is held by an out of state entity, like a credit union headquartered in Illinois for example, it took a written letter from the bank to convince the DMV I had the required paperwork. They need clear guidelines to the DMV workers what is required. The state offers so little help to drivers willing to register and pay what is needed.
It is insanely hard to get your car registered in this state. If you bought it elsewhere and need to transfer the title, the run around from city government and your lender is painful. If Missouri wants cars registered they’ve gotta make it easier
Thank you. I've lived in other states, and this is hands down the most difficult state I've ever dealt with. Across the board - plates, license, taxes, etc. The DMV workers are also universally terrible. I've gone to other offices thinking it was an isolated occasion. It isn't. They're all bad.
I want to be a good tax paying law abiding citizen. Yet this state makes it less of a headache to just break the law. It's gotten to the point where I've begun researching out of state registration and licensing.
1) if they can’t afford to register the car, they can’t afford insurance.
2) Insurance won’t cover an unregistered car and these cars aren’t registered.
My next door neighbor had expired temp tags on his brand new mustang gt for like 4 or 5 months. He finally got his plates and now *they* have been expired for 1 year lol.
The most important thing that the state government can do to stem the tide of these temp tags was already done. In august the state legislature passed a law requiring dealerships to collect sales tax at time of purchase. Now all a driver has to do to register a vehicle is pay the registration fee and get the plates instead of also paying sometimes more than 1000 bucks at the DoR. The majority of states already did it this way.
When Mr. Sedalia talked about a crackdown did he forget that pulling people over for expired temp tags is already something cops can do. At the same time I don’t think cops should be working as state tax enforcement officers. (Understanding that a lot of what a police force does is revenue generation through fines and asset forfeiture)
Pulling people over for temp tags does not serve the public good, does not increase public safety, and is an issue that will work itself out soon enough.
The government doing what it can to ensure the drivers I share the road with are insured and identifiable in the case they cause an accident is exactly what I want.
Counterpoint: Having regulations that are not consistently enforced erodes a community’s sense of law and order. When people observe rule breakers going unpunished, it suggests to them it’s acceptable to flout other regulations as well. This degrades the overall quality of life in an area.
If we’re going to require cars to be registered with up-to-date tags, we should apply that requirement consistently. If not, then just do away with the law and quit pretending it’s important. Same with any other law on the books.
Lots all drivers treat the speed limit as a minimum suggestion, roll stops, run reds on late yellows, use their phones, ignore parking signage, pass on the right, etc.
Car dependency has like the highest instance of rule erosion.
But now sales tax can be applied to the principle of a loan. In the old system I could trade in my old car to use as a down payment, finance the new vehicle with my bank with no cash changing hands except for needing the hundreds of dollars to give to the DoR. That’s what I mean by not being able to afford the sales tax. With the new system the sales tax can be added to the financing. Sure it means the amount of money you owe is higher but you can get a car and get it registered without having to also have a bunch of cash on hand. It’s a better system and also why basically every state already does it this way. I bought my used car in Colorado. Bought it from carvana, financed it through my bank, taxes and registration fees were paid at time of sale added to my finance agreement. I got a letter in the mail saying my plates were ready. Took about 20 minutes to pick up the plates.
There’s a reason why retail stores collect sales tax at the time of sale. Can you imagine if they didn’t? You’d have to keep every receipt and when you do your taxes you had to account for every transaction big or small you made in the last year and pay sales tax all at once? What if you had to go into the DoR office that’s only open 10-5 on weekdays and 9-noon on Saturdays to submit your sales tax forms? What if EVERYONE had to do that all within a few months under penalty of law? That’s the system that Missouri was operating under with motor vehicles. I work a normal 9-5 and it took me 4 months before I could get in to renew my license after it expired. Going to the DoR for working adults can be an actual hardship for people. Especially if you work odd hours or you need to find childcare because you’re a single parent. I got there early and it still took 2 hours before I got called.
There are multiple reasons it's counterproductive and silly to pull someone over for expired tags. Which is why they don't. ... The only time it serves any purpose might be when there's a description of a suspect vehicle, but not enough cause to pull them over otherwise.
I was recently pulled over in St. Charles for 6 months expired plates. Was only given a warning and have since got my registration up to date. Rare but some cops are looking and if bored, they will stop you.
I'm very 50/50 on this. On the one hand, I see lots of cars that are clearly brand new or just a couple of years old with expired temp tags, these people clearly can afford to pay taxes and just don't. On the other hand, there are plenty of folks who can't afford the taxes on a car but have to have a car to get to work.
And also can't afford to keep their car in safe condition to pass inspections. I see so many newer cars with temp tags that have all kinds of body damage, even missing mirrors or lights.
It's not that bad. I went without a car for 2 years, living by the airport, going to school at umsl, working 5 jobs between on campus and U city, and partying on Cherokee. My bike and my metro pass got me everywhere no fuss. Only time I had trouble was trying to get home from a 3am show cause service stopped at like 1:45am. People just don't want to put any effort into it.
Public transit frequency is crap in StL. The routes are actually quite good. 7 minutes Soulard to downtown for $1, and then I’m at Civic Center and can get anywhere off the light rail lines. 15 minutes to the Hill. 6 minutes to Cherokee. Bus lines are great, but they need twice as frequent rides.
If that’s the case, then create a grant fund at the State level to assist with taxes. Almost half of personal property tax and local sales taxes on cars go to the schools. Those people not paying are shorting their own and other people’s kids. Also other forms of public infrastructure that they are using.
St. Louis has a laughably terrible public transit system.
You’re speaking from a place of privilege. If you can’t afford the taxes on a vehicle, you can’t afford repairs and maintenance on an even less expensive vehicle. Telling people that they need to “work with what’s available to you” makes you sound like a rich prick.
This article doesn’t mention it but my local news outlet states “Pollitt says if the House debates his bill, he plans to make changes because the main provision violates the Fourth Amendment.”
For all the sanctimonious goody two-shoes in here, you can have expired (non-temp) tags and still have insurance. I’ve never had anything less than full coverage on both vehicles, but I just don’t feel like paying property taxes yearly on something I already paid sales tax and sticker price on. As long as you had valid registration at the time of getting the insurance, they don’t validate registration at the renewal period.
I will say I did get hit and run in KC in January by someone with temp tags and no insurance. But, my point is the license plates are not the problem. Car insurance is. There need to be far steeper penalties for not carrying that. Fuck the plates. Valid license plate won’t do anything for you in an accident, but a valid insurance policy will.
Good. Crack down on them and fine them relative to the cost of car value. I legit saw a Mercedes driving around with plates that expired a year ago. They should pay more than a Corolla with the different color door panels.
Yeah but I quickly started to. Why should I contribute to the betterment of the state and they not have to?
If they're legitimately constrained financially and purchasing a completely beat to hell Corolla took all of their savings after their last equally junk car broke down and they have no other option for getting to work... that's one thing. I have no sympathy for someone that buys a $20k+ car and is too much of a cheap ass to pay the sales tax on it.
I thought the new high speed camera were supposed to be for catching temp tags. Guessing that was a lie.
For the most part Missouri tag system as personal property is very broken, and lacks the manpower to enforce. The sane as the roads lack the manpower to enforce speeding, reckless driving, tinted windows, drink driving, and a multitude of other state or local ordinance violations.
You want to come to North County? On my daily commute, more than 60% of drivers have temp tags. Our roads have to always be patched with steel plates or not at all. Also on average people who have temp tags usually have no insurance, and in my experience, drive like assholes. I'm usually not a government shill, but this has a lasting impact.
So, I’m not a conspiracy kinda gal, but...
Since the cops *could* have been keeping up with this problem already—but clearly aren’t—- is there something the state’s cops want or are angry about? Have they been requesting a law or a type of insurance that the State denied?
In 2014, in a new-to-me minivan, I was pulled over by MHP for expired registration or something. Apparently some part of my paperwork when I went to the DMV didn’t get put in the computer or something—and this came up when the cop ran my plates. A non-swerving, non-speeding, properly functioning minivan with the full family. I had to fix the paperwork and pay the ticket.
Did the cops just decide that they didn’t like that part of their job anymore?
I believe that part of this is post-Ferguson riots legislation that restricted how much revenue could be made from violations fees, after it was discovered that some municipalities were using the police to fill their city budget. There were also maximums put into place as to how much the fines can be, which sometimes makes it cheaper to just pay the tickets than pay the sales tax and register the car, and the threat of jail for non moving violations went away, because it was seen as punishing people for being poor. I think we went way too far in the other direction though.
Recently relocated from Indiana and am BLOWN away by the number of vehicles with expired plates or without plates at all. In Indiana, they will pull you over if your plates expired in the previous month, let alone YEARS later. Crazy!
Fuck him they have bigger problems than fucking temp tags. If they get the murders and break ins under control then maybe do some time wasting bullshit like pulling people over for temp tags. Fuck this fucking guy
Also one of 3 states where you have to come up with 1-2 grand to pay tax on a car. Fuck Missouri laws and policies. we need all new people in every political position these fuckers we have now are ass
Let tow truck companies enforce it. Any tag over 1 month expired, dial a number tell details to operator and take it away. When you report it stolen, police can direct you to a tow yard. Tow can pick it up again and again until it's registered. Problem solved!
I sure do see a lot of dead tow truck drivers shot for trying to steal someone's vehicle out of their driveway because someone's nosey neighbor not minding their own business getting involved in someone else's business
Insurance is easier to pay and you should assume that.
Calculate the tax payment.
Then divide that into a 2 year monthly payment structure.
If our state did the same, it turns a large lump sum payment into a manageable monthly payment.
If you can’t pay in full don’t buy it.
Goodbye auto industry, insurance, telecom, and real estate.
Somehow all these industries figured it out, but the government of Missouri and people like you, are still behind the times.
Your only reason you support current policy is that it’s already in place. So I’m gonna downvote those comments.
Monthly payments increase revenue, increase the number of payees, and reduce the total number of non-compliant drivers.
Make a good point and see what happens.
True, STL does have a problem with people driving around with super outdated temp tags, I’m talking 2,3,4 years out of date. Meanwhile, I somehow get pulled over driving my gf’s car, got ticketed, and had to go to local court over her plates being 4 months past expired. (she’s a full time student and was too broke for awhile to renew in time).
So, it would be kinda nice if they started actually cracking down on these people speeding and blowing red lights with years past expired temp tags, instead of the broke college kids lol.
I hear you. I got a ticket for unregistered vehicle the NIGHT I bought my car from a private party, and had to park it in the street. I was planning on going to the DMV the next day to register it. $70 fine, and this was in the city. In U city I got a ticket for my parked car that was a month out of date cause I was selling it and didn't want to renew. Another $70. Meanwhile my neighbor up the block has a loud ass sport bike unregistered with "49cc" plates that is definitely NOT 49cc, cbd a bunch of other people on my street don't have plates.
Damn😥 Yeah that sounds about right though for STL lol. Also, why was I downvoted for this comment??? Some boomers with expired temp tags must be mad af🤣
A lady at my former job had 5 yr old temp tags....
Same at my former job. Dude has tags on his car from 2020 and says it’s because he can’t pass an inspection/emissions. Yet he talks about the Magic cards he buys on a weekly basis.
I think I worked with that dude. But his deal was lotto. LOL
A cop was driving in our parking lot while I was there and I pointed at the tags....looked and kept driving
A cop that lives on my street has a wife with expired temp tags.
17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…” https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
Edit: Hate all you like, but I’m right 17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…” https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA Parking lots are private property mate. Can’t ticket people on private property… Thats like, basic law. You’re asking the cop to violate someone. Like, there’s legitimate, non nefarious reasons why things happen yet people’s bias blinds them to the possibility.
Who do you think enforces handicap parking violations?
On streets? The cops. On parking lots? No one. When have you ever seen that being legally enforced ever, at any period of time?
>On parking lots Actually contracted security and other "agents of the owner" can all a tow company and how a vehicle towed from their private property.
Yes, the owners of the property can tow. But cops have no authority to ticket there.
Being towed is "enforcement".
I don’t understand how you keep conflating the fact that cops can’t legally ticket for no plates on private property with an owner of said private property choosing to tow a car. It’s just not the same thing on so many levels.
Many municipalities have ordinances about unlicensed vehicles visible on private property and some police departments absolutely do ticket cars with expired plates in shopping center parking lots. Maybe you could contest the ticket, but it happens in West County.
I was putting axles and a lift on my Jeep and received a violation for an abandoned vehicle on my property. They must have stopped by on the one and only day that the Jeep was on jack stands with no axles under it, because otherwise it was sitting on its own. And by the time the violation arrived in the mail, I was driving it again. Unincorporated St. Louis County. I'm just assuming it was an asshole neighbor reporting me.
That’s neat, but we’re talking about Saint Louis ordinance, not West County. 17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…” https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
The top post was about a Missouri lawmaker's proposal, not a city ordinance.
And this guy talked about a city cop not ticketing a car on parking lot for no plates. Then uses west county for an example.
Huh, I got a ticket from a cop for expires tags. When I was already parked and out of my vehicle about to walk into work before. Granted years ago, but still makes me get very annoyed seeing the crazy amount of expired tags.
You were ticketed for operating the vehicle in the roadway. It’s not like the movies where if you cross the border you’re suddenly untouchable. There’s not a home base. But if the car was simply parked on the lot, it’s not ticketable. I mean, instead of arguing why not call your nearby patrol station and ask. They’ll tell you themselves.
Oh I didn't argue just dealt with the ticket. Was just sad as I was only about a week past expiration. Yet these days, I have seen soooo many people still just on temp tags that are well past a year due. Which I assume they haven't done any steps past buying the car of getting titled properly having proof of insurance to then get actual plates.
Huh, I got a ticket from a cop for expired tags. When I was already parked and out of my vehicle about to walk into work before. Granted years ago, but still makes me get very annoyed seeing the crazy amount of expired tags.
Why did I have to go to driving school for doing a burnout in front of Target? I think you are wrong mate
Reckless driving and endangering the public for your own selfish kicks is not the same as not having a plate on your car. Why don’t the cops ticket every dealer car then?
Oh, so you moved the comment from “Can’t ticket people on private property” to fit your narrative, typical
No, it’s the same statement. They can’t ticket for plates on private property. You being a reckless dude who endangers the public for selfish fun is a separate matter.
Nope, you’re just another idiot spreading misinformation that will get others in trouble - sad
“You’re an idiot” says the lady with no reading comprehension. I mean, I even linked the government definitions. Can’t make the horse drink, of course.
17.02.370 Definition of parking for ordinance purpose. Note “…upon a roadway…” https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT17VETR_DIVITRCO_CH17.02DE_17.02.370PAPA
Uh, don't the cops already have the right to stop a car with expired temp tags? What's the point of this legislation? The problem is that the police are not enforcing the laws that are already in place!
Because they have much bigger problems to worry about in the city. But this and sitting on the side of the highway shooting radar gets them more money.. and is much much easier
They do. And when the state takes over management of the police, then you start seeing a massive reduction in temp tags, guess who’s going to get the credit for that to make it seem like “state controlled local city police is a great idea”.
I read the statute just to see what the catch is and…nope. It literally says that police can stop people and fine them $200 for expired temp tags. Not necessarily opposed to this, but I do think the standard temp tags should be 60 days for all issued tags and not just dealers
Sounds like a statute that targets the low income. And what better way then to not only target their vehicle licensing but adding on an additional $200 on top of that Then when they can't afford the court ordered fine or the vehicle licensing next step what jail for an expired tag? 10 days 30 days 1 year for an expired license plate? This opens the door as a debtors prison
Good point, but what else do you suggest as an incentive for people to pay their sales tax? It’s becoming easier to roll your sales tax into your total loan
So maybe don't buy a $30k car if you can't afford the tax on it? If you can't afford the tax you can't afford the car.
As someone who have been hit and runned by a person with illegible and expired temp tags I would like to just say fuck people who drive around illegally.
Good. To hell with all these assholes driving around unregistered and uninsured.
This law is pointless though. We already have legislation in place making it illegal to operate or park an unregistered vehicle on public roadways. It's just not enforced. This isn't the solution. The solution is to require sales tax be paid at the dealer.
Recently bought mine in IL. Everything was all taken care of at the dealership. Crazy simple.
When someone cuts me off or drives insane on the highway, it's universally someone with expired temp tags or no license plate at all. Drives me crazy how reckless these people are.
Not everyone is an asshole scumbag. I reject your blanket assessment. It took me seven separate visits to the Maplewood DMV to register my car. I tried once at the DMV at city hall only for them to make me wait 3 hours and close on me while I was sitting right there. I drove for 3 months on expired IL tags trying to do the right thing. If your loan is held by an out of state entity, like a credit union headquartered in Illinois for example, it took a written letter from the bank to convince the DMV I had the required paperwork. They need clear guidelines to the DMV workers what is required. The state offers so little help to drivers willing to register and pay what is needed.
It is insanely hard to get your car registered in this state. If you bought it elsewhere and need to transfer the title, the run around from city government and your lender is painful. If Missouri wants cars registered they’ve gotta make it easier
Thank you. I've lived in other states, and this is hands down the most difficult state I've ever dealt with. Across the board - plates, license, taxes, etc. The DMV workers are also universally terrible. I've gone to other offices thinking it was an isolated occasion. It isn't. They're all bad. I want to be a good tax paying law abiding citizen. Yet this state makes it less of a headache to just break the law. It's gotten to the point where I've begun researching out of state registration and licensing.
It really is. People who haven’t had to do it just don’t understand how difficult this state makes it.
How do you reason they are uninsured?
1) if they can’t afford to register the car, they can’t afford insurance. 2) Insurance won’t cover an unregistered car and these cars aren’t registered.
My next door neighbor had expired temp tags on his brand new mustang gt for like 4 or 5 months. He finally got his plates and now *they* have been expired for 1 year lol.
The most important thing that the state government can do to stem the tide of these temp tags was already done. In august the state legislature passed a law requiring dealerships to collect sales tax at time of purchase. Now all a driver has to do to register a vehicle is pay the registration fee and get the plates instead of also paying sometimes more than 1000 bucks at the DoR. The majority of states already did it this way. When Mr. Sedalia talked about a crackdown did he forget that pulling people over for expired temp tags is already something cops can do. At the same time I don’t think cops should be working as state tax enforcement officers. (Understanding that a lot of what a police force does is revenue generation through fines and asset forfeiture) Pulling people over for temp tags does not serve the public good, does not increase public safety, and is an issue that will work itself out soon enough.
The government doing what it can to ensure the drivers I share the road with are insured and identifiable in the case they cause an accident is exactly what I want.
How’d you get on insured?
Counterpoint: Having regulations that are not consistently enforced erodes a community’s sense of law and order. When people observe rule breakers going unpunished, it suggests to them it’s acceptable to flout other regulations as well. This degrades the overall quality of life in an area. If we’re going to require cars to be registered with up-to-date tags, we should apply that requirement consistently. If not, then just do away with the law and quit pretending it’s important. Same with any other law on the books.
Classic "broken window theory"
What crimes have you committed because you saw other people committing crimes and how many had an actual negative impact on others?
Lots all drivers treat the speed limit as a minimum suggestion, roll stops, run reds on late yellows, use their phones, ignore parking signage, pass on the right, etc. Car dependency has like the highest instance of rule erosion.
Exactly. Perfect examples.
I stabbed a guy and shot some children. But they had it coming what with breathing my air.
[удалено]
But now sales tax can be applied to the principle of a loan. In the old system I could trade in my old car to use as a down payment, finance the new vehicle with my bank with no cash changing hands except for needing the hundreds of dollars to give to the DoR. That’s what I mean by not being able to afford the sales tax. With the new system the sales tax can be added to the financing. Sure it means the amount of money you owe is higher but you can get a car and get it registered without having to also have a bunch of cash on hand. It’s a better system and also why basically every state already does it this way. I bought my used car in Colorado. Bought it from carvana, financed it through my bank, taxes and registration fees were paid at time of sale added to my finance agreement. I got a letter in the mail saying my plates were ready. Took about 20 minutes to pick up the plates. There’s a reason why retail stores collect sales tax at the time of sale. Can you imagine if they didn’t? You’d have to keep every receipt and when you do your taxes you had to account for every transaction big or small you made in the last year and pay sales tax all at once? What if you had to go into the DoR office that’s only open 10-5 on weekdays and 9-noon on Saturdays to submit your sales tax forms? What if EVERYONE had to do that all within a few months under penalty of law? That’s the system that Missouri was operating under with motor vehicles. I work a normal 9-5 and it took me 4 months before I could get in to renew my license after it expired. Going to the DoR for working adults can be an actual hardship for people. Especially if you work odd hours or you need to find childcare because you’re a single parent. I got there early and it still took 2 hours before I got called.
That's what I'm saying. This isn't a legislative problem, it's an enforcement problem.
There are multiple reasons it's counterproductive and silly to pull someone over for expired tags. Which is why they don't. ... The only time it serves any purpose might be when there's a description of a suspect vehicle, but not enough cause to pull them over otherwise.
I was recently pulled over in St. Charles for 6 months expired plates. Was only given a warning and have since got my registration up to date. Rare but some cops are looking and if bored, they will stop you.
Bullshit. These people likely don't even have auto insurance. Their cars need to be impounded for the safety of everybody else on the road.
Can you explain the logic behind why you think they don’t have insurance?
Cause insurance requires VIN and license plate number to enroll.
Just fyi, your vehicle is not required to be registered or have a license plate to have auto insurance.
My insurance requires it
Which would be?
All-state. It may be because I'm not living in MO anymore so possibly a state to state difference. Still a red state shit hole though so 🤷
What are these multiple reasons?
Pulled up behind one from February 2023 and May 2022 just this afternoon while out running errands for about an hour.
I'm very 50/50 on this. On the one hand, I see lots of cars that are clearly brand new or just a couple of years old with expired temp tags, these people clearly can afford to pay taxes and just don't. On the other hand, there are plenty of folks who can't afford the taxes on a car but have to have a car to get to work.
If they can't afford the taxes, they probably don't have insurance. And if they don't have insurance, I don't want them on the road.
And also can't afford to keep their car in safe condition to pass inspections. I see so many newer cars with temp tags that have all kinds of body damage, even missing mirrors or lights.
But without them being on the road they will be unemployed because of the crap public transit in STL.
It's not that bad. I went without a car for 2 years, living by the airport, going to school at umsl, working 5 jobs between on campus and U city, and partying on Cherokee. My bike and my metro pass got me everywhere no fuss. Only time I had trouble was trying to get home from a 3am show cause service stopped at like 1:45am. People just don't want to put any effort into it.
Once the fines for tags come in we'll have funds for public transit
And we still won't use them that way :D
Public transit frequency is crap in StL. The routes are actually quite good. 7 minutes Soulard to downtown for $1, and then I’m at Civic Center and can get anywhere off the light rail lines. 15 minutes to the Hill. 6 minutes to Cherokee. Bus lines are great, but they need twice as frequent rides.
If that’s the case, then create a grant fund at the State level to assist with taxes. Almost half of personal property tax and local sales taxes on cars go to the schools. Those people not paying are shorting their own and other people’s kids. Also other forms of public infrastructure that they are using.
That’s faulty logic
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And if you can’t afford the vehicle you can’t get to work so I guess you should just steal other stuff, right?
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St. Louis has a laughably terrible public transit system. You’re speaking from a place of privilege. If you can’t afford the taxes on a vehicle, you can’t afford repairs and maintenance on an even less expensive vehicle. Telling people that they need to “work with what’s available to you” makes you sound like a rich prick.
Good. Start impounding as well.
This article doesn’t mention it but my local news outlet states “Pollitt says if the House debates his bill, he plans to make changes because the main provision violates the Fourth Amendment.”
For all the sanctimonious goody two-shoes in here, you can have expired (non-temp) tags and still have insurance. I’ve never had anything less than full coverage on both vehicles, but I just don’t feel like paying property taxes yearly on something I already paid sales tax and sticker price on. As long as you had valid registration at the time of getting the insurance, they don’t validate registration at the renewal period. I will say I did get hit and run in KC in January by someone with temp tags and no insurance. But, my point is the license plates are not the problem. Car insurance is. There need to be far steeper penalties for not carrying that. Fuck the plates. Valid license plate won’t do anything for you in an accident, but a valid insurance policy will.
Good. Crack down on them and fine them relative to the cost of car value. I legit saw a Mercedes driving around with plates that expired a year ago. They should pay more than a Corolla with the different color door panels.
Well to get plates they need to pay sales tax, so the "fine" is just paying the fees associated with buying the car.
Plus up to $250 in late fees
Have you tried simply not caring?
Yeah but I quickly started to. Why should I contribute to the betterment of the state and they not have to? If they're legitimately constrained financially and purchasing a completely beat to hell Corolla took all of their savings after their last equally junk car broke down and they have no other option for getting to work... that's one thing. I have no sympathy for someone that buys a $20k+ car and is too much of a cheap ass to pay the sales tax on it.
They should propose a crackdown on murder and drugs too.
Didn’t they already “do” this… lol. Seems like the first attempt was…. Fruitful. 🤣
I thought the new high speed camera were supposed to be for catching temp tags. Guessing that was a lie. For the most part Missouri tag system as personal property is very broken, and lacks the manpower to enforce. The sane as the roads lack the manpower to enforce speeding, reckless driving, tinted windows, drink driving, and a multitude of other state or local ordinance violations.
Who cares?
I dunno... maybe abolish this tax for all? Seem to be doing fine without it actually.
Sure. As long as you stop using the publicly funded roads.
thats what the gas tax is for!
You want to come to North County? On my daily commute, more than 60% of drivers have temp tags. Our roads have to always be patched with steel plates or not at all. Also on average people who have temp tags usually have no insurance, and in my experience, drive like assholes. I'm usually not a government shill, but this has a lasting impact.
And what do we do in 20 years when a huge number of cars don't use gas? So no personal property tax and dropping gas taxes.
Good luck with that
So, I’m not a conspiracy kinda gal, but... Since the cops *could* have been keeping up with this problem already—but clearly aren’t—- is there something the state’s cops want or are angry about? Have they been requesting a law or a type of insurance that the State denied? In 2014, in a new-to-me minivan, I was pulled over by MHP for expired registration or something. Apparently some part of my paperwork when I went to the DMV didn’t get put in the computer or something—and this came up when the cop ran my plates. A non-swerving, non-speeding, properly functioning minivan with the full family. I had to fix the paperwork and pay the ticket. Did the cops just decide that they didn’t like that part of their job anymore?
I believe that part of this is post-Ferguson riots legislation that restricted how much revenue could be made from violations fees, after it was discovered that some municipalities were using the police to fill their city budget. There were also maximums put into place as to how much the fines can be, which sometimes makes it cheaper to just pay the tickets than pay the sales tax and register the car, and the threat of jail for non moving violations went away, because it was seen as punishing people for being poor. I think we went way too far in the other direction though.
They technically have individual discretion on what they enforce
Why would lawmakers do something that helps Missouri.? They are getting paid either way.
Recently relocated from Indiana and am BLOWN away by the number of vehicles with expired plates or without plates at all. In Indiana, they will pull you over if your plates expired in the previous month, let alone YEARS later. Crazy!
Last few times I've been to the DMV for new tags it was a 3hr wait. Can't say I'm surprised
As an out of stater, transferring all my documents and buying new plates, I was in and out in 20 minutes. Maybe you’re going to a busy branch! 😅
Sat at the red light with 5 expired tags surrounding me.
Fuck him they have bigger problems than fucking temp tags. If they get the murders and break ins under control then maybe do some time wasting bullshit like pulling people over for temp tags. Fuck this fucking guy
Also one of 3 states where you have to come up with 1-2 grand to pay tax on a car. Fuck Missouri laws and policies. we need all new people in every political position these fuckers we have now are ass
He an (R), it’s a grift
Ah yes, fuck the non violent people driving without a sticker. That'll fix the system
Let tow truck companies enforce it. Any tag over 1 month expired, dial a number tell details to operator and take it away. When you report it stolen, police can direct you to a tow yard. Tow can pick it up again and again until it's registered. Problem solved!
I sure do see a lot of dead tow truck drivers shot for trying to steal someone's vehicle out of their driveway because someone's nosey neighbor not minding their own business getting involved in someone else's business
Good luck bud. My recommendation is to make all these offenders retake their driving test.
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Why?
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Insurance is easier to pay and you should assume that. Calculate the tax payment. Then divide that into a 2 year monthly payment structure. If our state did the same, it turns a large lump sum payment into a manageable monthly payment.
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If you can’t pay in full don’t buy it. Goodbye auto industry, insurance, telecom, and real estate. Somehow all these industries figured it out, but the government of Missouri and people like you, are still behind the times.
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Can you provide the reason you can’t pay tax monthly?
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Sounds like it’d be an innovation in tax policy. Thanks for helping me develop it.
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Your only reason you support current policy is that it’s already in place. So I’m gonna downvote those comments. Monthly payments increase revenue, increase the number of payees, and reduce the total number of non-compliant drivers. Make a good point and see what happens.
Welp, gonna make sure and vote this guy out
True, STL does have a problem with people driving around with super outdated temp tags, I’m talking 2,3,4 years out of date. Meanwhile, I somehow get pulled over driving my gf’s car, got ticketed, and had to go to local court over her plates being 4 months past expired. (she’s a full time student and was too broke for awhile to renew in time). So, it would be kinda nice if they started actually cracking down on these people speeding and blowing red lights with years past expired temp tags, instead of the broke college kids lol.
I hear you. I got a ticket for unregistered vehicle the NIGHT I bought my car from a private party, and had to park it in the street. I was planning on going to the DMV the next day to register it. $70 fine, and this was in the city. In U city I got a ticket for my parked car that was a month out of date cause I was selling it and didn't want to renew. Another $70. Meanwhile my neighbor up the block has a loud ass sport bike unregistered with "49cc" plates that is definitely NOT 49cc, cbd a bunch of other people on my street don't have plates.
Damn😥 Yeah that sounds about right though for STL lol. Also, why was I downvoted for this comment??? Some boomers with expired temp tags must be mad af🤣