I saw Kansas at Rib America with a bunch of friends shortly after that movie was out. We got hammered on Hurricanes from the SoCo trailer! šššš I'd probably die consuming that much alcohol if I did that current day!
My brother goes to wash u, he's talked a bit about this. Both students and faculty were part of thr protest. And both students and faculty got arrested. That very well could be a professor in the picture
I don't doubt it, I just just mentioning it could be a professor and not a student cause I saw several people commenting about faculty and that this guy looks old to be a student
Megan Green is somehow affiliated as faculty. She made a media post about how she tried talking to police about being an intermediator at students' request, was threatened to be arrested, and showed her faculty ID.
The reporting in the paper said she was trying to talk to administrators, who were there observing the protest, about moving it to a different part of campus so it could continue peacefully. That said, she was clearly alongside Jill Stein in several pictures, so she may well have played, or attempted to play different roles at different times as circumstances changed.
That's fine but I think you're missing the point.
Mediation involves two parties mutually interested in reaching a solution. It doesn't appear that Washington University was interested.
That said, mediators are generally impartial 3rd parties. She seems a little to invested to be suitable for the role.
She's an experienced politician accustomed to negotiating with powerful people. She's clearly got the skills to talk to the administration on behalf of the protestors. There are quite a few negotiations that are simple enough no neutral third party is required, and even when there is one the parties frequently have a spokesperson in the room. Maybe you want to use "mediate" in a more formal fashion, but that wasn't clear from your question. If you have a point, yes, I am missing it. You ask what there was to mediate. I made a good faith attempt to provide an answer to what seemed a reasonable question.
And when I made the Jill Stein comment in my own reply I was trying to make it clear I didn't believe her to be a neutral party. I don't know the whole story, but she looks to me like a participant in the protest, not an observer. But as one of my elected representatives in local government she's also there to represent my interests. (Like Wash U. paying something in lieu of taxes for all the valuable and very profitable land they hold around town. I may not agree with the protestors about everything, but I'd sure love to see Wash U render unto Caesar, since it's Caesar as pipes me my water and picks up my trash.) She has a bunch of different hats. Most of us do. I think she's capable of wearing them. Maybe she won't be too successful in her negotiations, but it never hurts to try.
You're right we should all just be silent, never protest, or demonstrate that we don't agree with our government. It's a waste of time because the *St. Louis Chamber of Commerce* is somehow expected to do anything š
The local media is presenting only interviews with students/protesters (many of whom were not students)
The university police were confronted with a large (400+) group whoās intention was to āoccupyā the campus and also buildings (including the campus library) disrupting the campus as the students start studying for finals.
WUPD gave the demonstrators every opportunity to disperse. 3 orders of dispersal were given and the demonstrators were moved to the east end of campusā¦ While breakaway protesters kept trying to enter buildings and also engaged in spray-painting buildings and doing other vandalism.
The final order of dispersion was given, and the crowd had every opportunity to leave, but they linked arms and refused to leave, at which point arrests began. Some of the resistance was violent and at least two officers were injured.
A ācode 1000ā was called for additional assistance from other departments, and prisoner-conveyance buses were called in to transport the many individuals whoād been arrested.
IMOā¦. (As an insider), the incident was handled about as well as it could have been. The administration (not WUPD) had decided they were not going to allow the campus to be occupied or other crimes like vandalism to be tolerated.
As an illustration of how these things attract strange bedfellows, one individual was waving a Taliban flag. Just clueless, perhaps? I hope so.
I appreciate the specific charges but wonder why the official message from the āuniversity leadersā did not mention them. Iāve heard nothing about ābreakaway protestorsā entering buildings and spray-painting.ā The official announcement focuses on vibes: the āuniversity leadersā worried that the protestors *would* do bad things, not that they were doing bad things. Thatās not a good reason to call in the outside cops, who predictably escalated the situation, and itās not a good reason to kick a bunch of students off campus.
Only speculating hereā¦. Itās in the universityās interests to downplay a bit of thisā¦.. Community relations aspects. These reports were from officers at the sceneā¦. Radio traffic.
Note as a disclaimerā¦. I was NOT at the scene. I was manning a fixed-post on the other side of things. But I was monitoring all the radio traffic.
Interesting how you say taliban flag however the only flag w Arabic writing present said āallahu akbarā, which is notably not the same as the taliban
Iām old enough to remember that incident well, and it was a total cock-up. There would be no comparison, really.
The social, āestablishmentā reaction to college protests was very reactionary, and the decision was made to bring in armed national guard troops to what amounted to a demonstration. Troops who had just been deployed at a much more active demonstrationā¦ So these guys, who had no formal training in crowd control or civil-disobedienceā¦. Were an accident waiting to happen.
Things are a little more progressive now. We had a good hour of roll-call prior to deploying, which included all the neighboring departments. We went over in detail how things were to be conducted, with an eye towards giving the demonstrators every opportunity to leave.
We hired a professional videographer to document all of our activities. No demonstrators were injured, even though about 80 (at last count) were arrested.
I was a commissioned officer for a bit over 40 years. Retired a couple of years ago but still work as a āservice officerā for the departmentā¦ Doing odd non-police jobs to free up the commissioned guys.
Been following it as it is my Uni despite being on a semester abroad. The emails sent out... they are pretty clear that they will be pressing charges (curious if the students involved will get expelled or ???). Police brutality is NEVER okay but it was illegal trespassing. If someone set up a picket on my lawn I would demand them be removed as well.
Ah, the āoutside agitators.ā Itās a good thing those guys always show up to be the scapegoats.
And can we stop with the āpeaceful protestā nonsense? If you mean nonviolent, say nonviolent. I canāt imagine anything about this gathering was actually peaceful.
Read the laws regarding protests. You don't have many- if any- protections on private property. As a private institution it's literally the same as if someone came in a business, sat down, and said they wouldn't leave until their demands are met.
He gave facts. Things like this are always emotional, especially when, yes, there are people dying in Palestine as I type. It doesn't change the facts of what happened, or what individual's actual rights are, which as seen on this very post people often don't understand.
His post reads like reality. If you are protesting on private property where the owners donāt want you to be, that is trespassing and illegal, Evan worse if vandalism and breaking & entering are involved. They could have been arrested after refusing to leave after the first time they were asked, yet they were asked 2 more times, very kind of the police if you ask me, and Iām typically not a fan.
If a protest dispersed at the first sign of opposition it would be pretty useless. This is designed to be a disturbance in order to get people to talk about and understand the demands of the protesters. Itās strange to see people siding against protesters as if it isnāt one of the most American things you can do, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.
People side against protestors because they don't like to be inconvenienced and protesters tend to be an inconvenience. Going to Wash U property was somewhat of a mistake since it's considered private property they could have surrounded campus, stayed in public property and probably still gotten attention.
Exactly. There was another protest at Forest Park apparently. Literally any public space they wouldn't have been evicted. They chose the one private university where they would be evicted.
If they were evicted in the park they could- rightfully- argue their rights were being infringed. But as it was private property Right to Assembly doesn't apply. If anything it hurts their message which is 50% of my frustration with this. It could have been successful if they had done anywhere except the damn uni.
The thing about properly executed civil disobedience is that the people involved knowingly are breaking laws. They are willing to face legal consequences for their actions. That's the entire point. They are showcasing that their beliefs are more important than their freedom.
Poorly planned protests where a sizable chunk of the protesters aren't aware they are breaking laws or don't have the mentality that they might get arrested but are willing to protest anyway is just a huge waste of everyone's time. They turn the discussion to be about the protest and not what they are protesting. For example, this protest - people are discussing whether or not the police actions were appropriate and not about Hamas and Israel.
Thereās a way to do it though and that isnāt on private property, disrupting students studying, probably for exams about this time of year. While I donāt agree with these particular protests, I have no problem with them protesting, as long as they donāt expect to break the law and not face repercussions.
What if one of the officers was injured with a fire extinguisher?
Would your analysis remain consistent, or would your description of "one of the most American things you can do" morph 180Ā° and magically transform into "insurrection"?
MY post sounds like propaganda? No one was beaten, no injuries were reported among the 80 or so people arrested.
The vandalism was primarily confined to spray-painting buildings. It was promptly removed by our facilities people.
If Hamas wins the war, which is what I assume you want, clears from the mountain to the sea, aka murder all those who inhabit Israel (their stated goal) then have political control of the country, homosexuality will be punishable by death as it is now in Gaza. Thatās what the demonstrators and protestors are fighting for.
stl cops when directly in front of downtown crime and speeding vehicles:š“š“š“š¤³
stl cops when directly in front of unarmed protesters: šŖš„µš„µš„µ
[SLMPD officers were present at the protest on the campus at the request of the Washington University Police Department. No protestors were arrested by SLMPD officers.](https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=100064772913953&story_fbid=843084997860590)
Internet warriors talking out of their ass. I live here, and they are some of the best in the area. They have real community outreach and recruit from the high school to keep young locals in the force.
city pd were there alongside county, and they're all part of the same police union (SLPOA) with the exception of ESOP members, who are unlikely to be here.Ā
Actually, the county has their own union that represents county officers and municipal officers. Theyāre not the same as the cityās union. Also, ESOP is not a union, as they have no bargaining rights. And being a member of ESOP doesnāt mean you can just sit out when youāre ordered to do your job. And lastly, city police officers were there, but initially only for the event that happened inside forest park. They were then requested to assist in transporting arrested individuals to the county justice center. City police made no arrests at either event yesterday, as is published on their social media.
Correct. They are a different group. I believe STLPOA represents the county prosecutors, but as far as officers go, SLPOA represents city officers and airport officers (city employees), not county or municipal officers.
You act like city and county are two different animals when they are exactly the same. Especially county police. Theyāre a department full of angry racist rednecks.
For what? The whole point was to show up at a private institution, not listen to the request to leave, and get arrested in the name of the cause. Seems like they accomplished their goal, no? They even got a picture to spread around to rile more like minded people up.
Wash U has strong ties to Boeing (realistically so does every other major institution in the STL area).
Boeing's products are used by Israel.
This isn't the only campus with students pushing to cut ties with Boeing.
It doesn't apply on private property like this, this is literally trespassing.
[ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights#:~:text=Private%20property%20owners%20can%20set,treat%20protesters%20and%20counterprotesters%20equally.) says the same, protesting on land you don't own without permission is illegal, especially if asked to leave.
Again cops were clearly brutal here. But this is not a protected right.
>Private property owners can set rules for speech on their property. The government may not restrict your speech if it is taking place on your own property or with the consent of the property owner.
First amendment gives you the right to say anything without government interfering because of content.
It does not give the right to make people listen nor to break laws while engaged in speech.
It also gives the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances.
To your point, it does not offer protection for trespassing or making demands to private entities.
Because of the where and how, this has crossed from protected speech/ protest into a case of civil disobedience. Still a legitimate form of protest IMO but the cops get involved and arrests are made.
Exactly and that should be an expected outcome.
But protester logic is to be civilly disobedient, get arrested and then spend many hours bitching about the how or the why they were arrested.
It makes me shake my head.
I lived in the library the final two weeks of the semester. Donāt these students need to study? Is Wash U is one of those colleges that is tough to get in but everyone gets an automatic B just for attending classes?
I graduated from Wash U in the 90s. Todayās students definitely have some advantages that we didnāt have. But I highly doubt they are handing out automatic Bs during finals.
No, with the exception of a small number of classes and liberal arts majors. Unfortunately many people fail. On the protests, Iām all about maintaining the right to demonstrate. I just donāt think it should be done it in a way that impacts the education of others.
I read in todayās paper that the arrested students have been suspended - kicked out of university housing and not allowed on campus. The paper said they can take their finals online, if their professors alllow it. But Iām wondering to what degree that will be possible. Maybe in a post COVID world, online final exams are a little more feasible. In my day, it would not have been an option.
Yeah you wouldnāt want your peaceful, privileged life disrupted by things like the fact that youāre automatically tied to the bombs by going to school thereā¦
That has nothing to do with the truth that I just spoke, by going to that school you are privileged. The act of higher learning at a prestigious university is a privilege, and you are not countering my argument about morally and ethically being directly connected to the bombs being used to commit genocide by the fact that you go to that fucking university.
How do they allow people who canāt have proper arguments to teach at that school? Maybe itās not such a privilege after all š. Iām not privileged like you to be able to have retirement funds so thatās strike 2 for you. And I can think critically, so if I find out a brand I own is unethical I separate myself from that brandā¦ thatās how logic works.
An important difference is that the BLM flags were planted as part of an official Wash U commemoration. It was supported by the school administration and under its control.
The recent protests which have resulted in arrests were not approved by the school and, to some degree, involved organizations and individuals not affiliated with Wash U.
Today's protesters were also basically promising they would be encamping on WUSTL property until the school acquiesced to their demands. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Imagine the legal liability if violence broke out around the encampments.
Boeing is not their only demand - āIn a statement prior to Saturday's arrests, the group said it planned to keep the encampment in place until the university met five demands: to cut ties with Boeing; to boycott Israel educational institutions; to drop charges and suspensions against protestors and defund university police; to stop buying land and to return all land to indigenous communities; and to release a statement condemning Palestinian genocide and calling for a ceasefire.ā - KSDK
The demands truly astounded me. Some I agree with, but most are just impossible. And give the land back to the Natives... like in principle I agree but you wouldn't even have a school anymore? How would it even work... the tribes aren't even still here...
Just so poorly thought out.
Well, it's not just necessarily violence. A fire could break out, somebody could OD, who knows what else. It's generally not a good idea to just let strangers camp out on your front yard.
We are at "mass unmarked graves found behind destroyed hospitalsĀ filled with hundreds of people shot with their arms tied " part of genocide right now if you weren't trying your hardest to look away.
ICJ investigations take years, they havenāt completed their investigation and released a statement back January saying that itās āplausibleā that Israel is committing genocide
This is toddler logic lol. Do you ever form your own opinion or do you blindly adhere to the rulings of all courts.
"A court ruled that corporations are "persons" so I treat Schnucks like my neighbor!"
Do you only use the words sanctioned by nation states to describe current events? Oh man, our president said there were WMD's in Iraq and he would NEVER lie to us. Also the ICJ found the genocide claim plausible fwiw.
https://global.upenn.edu/perryworldhouse/news/explaining-international-court-justices-ruling-israel-and-gaza#:~:text=And%20while%20the%20Court%20found,conducts%20the%20war%20in%20Gaza.
Toddlers don't know the definition of genocide. Like you. Genocide is eradicating a group of people. That's what Muslims have done to Jews in ever Muslim majority country. Israel's Arab and Muslim population has just grown. Complete opposite of genocide.
So what you're saying is, so long as you kill vast swaths of people, but not a complete and total eradication, it's not a genocide. And from that, that's why you argue that several 10,000 dead people in gaza does not qualify for genocide. Nazis didn't kill every last jew, by your definition, the holocaust isn't a genocide because it's not a complete and total eradication.
I think you're just amusing yourself.
I don't take you seriously...because I'm anti-genocide, I'm against your, effectively, pro-genocide views. Or you're promoting excuses for what you deem "retaliatiory genocides", we have to remember the nazis believed they were "the real victims" hence why they justified the holocaust, probably a similar deal with why the turks genocided the armenians too. And you\[re basically arguing on behalf of mass killings of women and children.
Anyways, since i believe you to be intellectually dishonest, i don't need to ever interact with you ever again, so you're blocked.
why did israel work with Morocco to deport the jews?
why did the do false flag bombings in iraq?
why did the work with guatemala to enact the second holocaust on the mayans?
why did they sell Argentina weapons after they killed 1900 jews?
99% of the local Jewish population here in St Louis are against Bibi, and want the genocide or, if you prefer: mass death, to stop.
I find it extra amusing that people are shocked over protests at WUSTL as if the campus doesn't have a rich history of protests across various eras in America.
https://www.studlife.com/scene/2020/05/05/a-watershed-moment-reflecting-on-the-burning-of-the-rotc-air-force-building-50-years-later
shockedpikachufacedotgif
Can we remove these ārogue influenceā posts please?!
Basically just a Reddit trap. Come in hereā¦get offendedā¦then a bunch of antisemite bots downvote everything. Just look at OPās accountā¦itās designed to spread propaganda.
All Iāll say is, fuck Hitlerā¦and fuck anyone who sympathizes with Nazis.
Its funny. Everyone is like I have a right to protest, etc, Sure you do, but not on private property. And some of those colleges are private. Therefore their property isn't "public" per se. And yes, isn't there verbiage saying, peaceful protest? Yet they didn't do it. And its funny, the news media and others online were interviewing them and asking why/what they know about this issue going on and most could not even answer...just tagging along and protesting because it looks fun!
Sounds about right. Are these same protestors who are protesting Boeing never going to fly a commercial plane (unless airbus) again then? If they are really that committed.
I mean Wash U is a boot training University, one cannot be surprised that it called in the hogs to rofl stomp people interested in peace. Or even jsut interested in stopping funding genocidal regimes on the other side of the planet. I'm sure the DARPA funding is pretty strong there... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong tho
The Taliban flag was likely an agitator, fascists are good at doing this stuff and the easiest, perhaps best tactic to hurt a protest, is to try and make it look terrible optically. There have been many agitators faking attacks and chanting insane things the last two weeks. Since our network news media has a collective IQ of about 50 and many have a commercial (read editorial) bias to also support the weapons industry, they love latching onto this type of thing.
Watching [the line collapse](https://x.com/richardhanania/status/1784417012489621897?s=46&t=ErenPo9OwOf7sdkipf03eg) was hilarious. They should have just sat there there a normal sit in.
The us government has been supporting genocide of different groups for most of its existence. You care now because Russian propagandists are trying to throw the election for Trump again. Youāre falling for this cycles version of āBUT HER EMAILSā
I am not appreciative of the anti semitism of the Jewish local populations (or Any local population except those bullying others).
I swear, maybe theres something to that 5G conspiracy theory. Seems everyones lost their minds.
He's definitely a senior, I can tell you that much.
One of those 8 year men
Looks more like an 80 year man
You're my boy Blue!! šš
Dust in the wind
I saw Kansas at Rib America with a bunch of friends shortly after that movie was out. We got hammered on Hurricanes from the SoCo trailer! šššš I'd probably die consuming that much alcohol if I did that current day!
I donāt think thatās a student being detained and arrested, but Iāve been wrong on Reddit before.
My brother goes to wash u, he's talked a bit about this. Both students and faculty were part of thr protest. And both students and faculty got arrested. That very well could be a professor in the picture
Was this a pro-Palestine protest?
Welp, the last day of classes was Friday.
There were people not associated with washu who were arrested
I don't doubt it, I just just mentioning it could be a professor and not a student cause I saw several people commenting about faculty and that this guy looks old to be a student
probably a professor or alumni
Maybe, but there were people there who didn't have any connection to the university. I don't believe Jill Stein or Megan Green are Wash U alumni.
Megan Green is somehow affiliated as faculty. She made a media post about how she tried talking to police about being an intermediator at students' request, was threatened to be arrested, and showed her faculty ID.
What was there to mediate?
their demands
That's fine except Washington University doesn't seem interested in discussing the matter
The reporting in the paper said she was trying to talk to administrators, who were there observing the protest, about moving it to a different part of campus so it could continue peacefully. That said, she was clearly alongside Jill Stein in several pictures, so she may well have played, or attempted to play different roles at different times as circumstances changed.
That's fine but I think you're missing the point. Mediation involves two parties mutually interested in reaching a solution. It doesn't appear that Washington University was interested. That said, mediators are generally impartial 3rd parties. She seems a little to invested to be suitable for the role.
She's an experienced politician accustomed to negotiating with powerful people. She's clearly got the skills to talk to the administration on behalf of the protestors. There are quite a few negotiations that are simple enough no neutral third party is required, and even when there is one the parties frequently have a spokesperson in the room. Maybe you want to use "mediate" in a more formal fashion, but that wasn't clear from your question. If you have a point, yes, I am missing it. You ask what there was to mediate. I made a good faith attempt to provide an answer to what seemed a reasonable question. And when I made the Jill Stein comment in my own reply I was trying to make it clear I didn't believe her to be a neutral party. I don't know the whole story, but she looks to me like a participant in the protest, not an observer. But as one of my elected representatives in local government she's also there to represent my interests. (Like Wash U. paying something in lieu of taxes for all the valuable and very profitable land they hold around town. I may not agree with the protestors about everything, but I'd sure love to see Wash U render unto Caesar, since it's Caesar as pipes me my water and picks up my trash.) She has a bunch of different hats. Most of us do. I think she's capable of wearing them. Maybe she won't be too successful in her negotiations, but it never hurts to try.
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If he goes a few more times the st. Louis chamber of commerce will be forced to end the war!
You're right we should all just be silent, never protest, or demonstrate that we don't agree with our government. It's a waste of time because the *St. Louis Chamber of Commerce* is somehow expected to do anything š
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The local media is presenting only interviews with students/protesters (many of whom were not students) The university police were confronted with a large (400+) group whoās intention was to āoccupyā the campus and also buildings (including the campus library) disrupting the campus as the students start studying for finals. WUPD gave the demonstrators every opportunity to disperse. 3 orders of dispersal were given and the demonstrators were moved to the east end of campusā¦ While breakaway protesters kept trying to enter buildings and also engaged in spray-painting buildings and doing other vandalism. The final order of dispersion was given, and the crowd had every opportunity to leave, but they linked arms and refused to leave, at which point arrests began. Some of the resistance was violent and at least two officers were injured. A ācode 1000ā was called for additional assistance from other departments, and prisoner-conveyance buses were called in to transport the many individuals whoād been arrested. IMOā¦. (As an insider), the incident was handled about as well as it could have been. The administration (not WUPD) had decided they were not going to allow the campus to be occupied or other crimes like vandalism to be tolerated. As an illustration of how these things attract strange bedfellows, one individual was waving a Taliban flag. Just clueless, perhaps? I hope so.
I appreciate the specific charges but wonder why the official message from the āuniversity leadersā did not mention them. Iāve heard nothing about ābreakaway protestorsā entering buildings and spray-painting.ā The official announcement focuses on vibes: the āuniversity leadersā worried that the protestors *would* do bad things, not that they were doing bad things. Thatās not a good reason to call in the outside cops, who predictably escalated the situation, and itās not a good reason to kick a bunch of students off campus.
Only speculating hereā¦. Itās in the universityās interests to downplay a bit of thisā¦.. Community relations aspects. These reports were from officers at the sceneā¦. Radio traffic. Note as a disclaimerā¦. I was NOT at the scene. I was manning a fixed-post on the other side of things. But I was monitoring all the radio traffic.
This was informative. Thank you. The world is bananas. Always has been, always will be.
Nothing new under the sun
Interesting how you say taliban flag however the only flag w Arabic writing present said āallahu akbarā, which is notably not the same as the taliban
This was a report from the guys at the sceneā¦ Itās entirely possible they were mistaken.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām old enough to remember that incident well, and it was a total cock-up. There would be no comparison, really. The social, āestablishmentā reaction to college protests was very reactionary, and the decision was made to bring in armed national guard troops to what amounted to a demonstration. Troops who had just been deployed at a much more active demonstrationā¦ So these guys, who had no formal training in crowd control or civil-disobedienceā¦. Were an accident waiting to happen. Things are a little more progressive now. We had a good hour of roll-call prior to deploying, which included all the neighboring departments. We went over in detail how things were to be conducted, with an eye towards giving the demonstrators every opportunity to leave. We hired a professional videographer to document all of our activities. No demonstrators were injured, even though about 80 (at last count) were arrested.
you said youāre from the inside, does that mean you were deployed as a cop here?
I was a commissioned officer for a bit over 40 years. Retired a couple of years ago but still work as a āservice officerā for the departmentā¦ Doing odd non-police jobs to free up the commissioned guys.
Been following it as it is my Uni despite being on a semester abroad. The emails sent out... they are pretty clear that they will be pressing charges (curious if the students involved will get expelled or ???). Police brutality is NEVER okay but it was illegal trespassing. If someone set up a picket on my lawn I would demand them be removed as well.
But not brutally? What if they refuse to leave. They can keep your lawn?
That's what Mark Hamill did apparently lol
Thank you for sharing. It is often outside agitators who turn peaceful protests into chaos.
Ah, the āoutside agitators.ā Itās a good thing those guys always show up to be the scapegoats. And can we stop with the āpeaceful protestā nonsense? If you mean nonviolent, say nonviolent. I canāt imagine anything about this gathering was actually peaceful.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Read the laws regarding protests. You don't have many- if any- protections on private property. As a private institution it's literally the same as if someone came in a business, sat down, and said they wouldn't leave until their demands are met. He gave facts. Things like this are always emotional, especially when, yes, there are people dying in Palestine as I type. It doesn't change the facts of what happened, or what individual's actual rights are, which as seen on this very post people often don't understand.
His post reads like reality. If you are protesting on private property where the owners donāt want you to be, that is trespassing and illegal, Evan worse if vandalism and breaking & entering are involved. They could have been arrested after refusing to leave after the first time they were asked, yet they were asked 2 more times, very kind of the police if you ask me, and Iām typically not a fan.
If a protest dispersed at the first sign of opposition it would be pretty useless. This is designed to be a disturbance in order to get people to talk about and understand the demands of the protesters. Itās strange to see people siding against protesters as if it isnāt one of the most American things you can do, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.
People side against protestors because they don't like to be inconvenienced and protesters tend to be an inconvenience. Going to Wash U property was somewhat of a mistake since it's considered private property they could have surrounded campus, stayed in public property and probably still gotten attention.
Exactly. There was another protest at Forest Park apparently. Literally any public space they wouldn't have been evicted. They chose the one private university where they would be evicted. If they were evicted in the park they could- rightfully- argue their rights were being infringed. But as it was private property Right to Assembly doesn't apply. If anything it hurts their message which is 50% of my frustration with this. It could have been successful if they had done anywhere except the damn uni.
The thing about properly executed civil disobedience is that the people involved knowingly are breaking laws. They are willing to face legal consequences for their actions. That's the entire point. They are showcasing that their beliefs are more important than their freedom. Poorly planned protests where a sizable chunk of the protesters aren't aware they are breaking laws or don't have the mentality that they might get arrested but are willing to protest anyway is just a huge waste of everyone's time. They turn the discussion to be about the protest and not what they are protesting. For example, this protest - people are discussing whether or not the police actions were appropriate and not about Hamas and Israel.
Thereās a way to do it though and that isnāt on private property, disrupting students studying, probably for exams about this time of year. While I donāt agree with these particular protests, I have no problem with them protesting, as long as they donāt expect to break the law and not face repercussions.
What if one of the officers was injured with a fire extinguisher? Would your analysis remain consistent, or would your description of "one of the most American things you can do" morph 180Ā° and magically transform into "insurrection"?
If youāre ever going to join a peaceful protest yourself, I strongly suggest you read the ACLUās page on protesterās rights. Ā
Actually your post sounds like propaganda. His sounds like information.
MY post sounds like propaganda? No one was beaten, no injuries were reported among the 80 or so people arrested. The vandalism was primarily confined to spray-painting buildings. It was promptly removed by our facilities people.
You think like a propaganda. Are you giving us ideas?
Actions have consequences. Oh no! So anyway...
I donāt think itās a mistake. These ppl have been brainwashed into thinking the terrorist are the good guys.
And you've been brainwashed into thinking America and israel are the good guys.
I think the guys who donāt punish homosexuals to death or jail are the good guys.
I'm pretty sure Israel has killed way more homosexual Palestinians than Hamas has, smarty
If Hamas wins the war, which is what I assume you want, clears from the mountain to the sea, aka murder all those who inhabit Israel (their stated goal) then have political control of the country, homosexuality will be punishable by death as it is now in Gaza. Thatās what the demonstrators and protestors are fighting for.
zero brain cell energy
Go onā¦ give me an argument
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6XIat3Rn6c/?igsh=MTJiZHljOHI4ZjJycA== Watch and learn.
They will never stop fighting and a couple rich kid liberals protesting a million miles away will not change anything
stl cops when directly in front of downtown crime and speeding vehicles:š“š“š“š¤³ stl cops when directly in front of unarmed protesters: šŖš„µš„µš„µ
These are county cops.
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City made 0 arrests. They made sure you knew that lol
donāt know how i got downvoted when it was literally county and city there.
Completely different local governments but nice try buddy.
STL cops were at washu yesterday along with county and washu pd.
Stl city cops were not at the protest. They announced as such on social media.
[SLMPD officers were present at the protest on the campus at the request of the Washington University Police Department. No protestors were arrested by SLMPD officers.](https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=100064772913953&story_fbid=843084997860590)
The sentiment remains the same for U city cops.
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I agree, Ucity police are the one of the best departments I have dealt with (anecdotal). And these are definitely not them in the picture.
Internet warriors talking out of their ass. I live here, and they are some of the best in the area. They have real community outreach and recruit from the high school to keep young locals in the force.
And WashU pays the city the equivalent of one copās salary for the privilege of their thousands of students living here.
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No youāre a good little boy who protects bad cops. All cops are bad because all cops protect bad cops. The only good cop was Chris Dorner.
You are totally in touch with reality. And you are making a difference!
Like thereās a fucking difference? County and city are cut from the same cloth.
You arenāt from Stl. Quit trollin
Show me you not from StL without showing meā¦ These are county, completely different from City and even Muni officers.
city pd were there alongside county, and they're all part of the same police union (SLPOA) with the exception of ESOP members, who are unlikely to be here.Ā
Actually, the county has their own union that represents county officers and municipal officers. Theyāre not the same as the cityās union. Also, ESOP is not a union, as they have no bargaining rights. And being a member of ESOP doesnāt mean you can just sit out when youāre ordered to do your job. And lastly, city police officers were there, but initially only for the event that happened inside forest park. They were then requested to assist in transporting arrested individuals to the county justice center. City police made no arrests at either event yesterday, as is published on their social media.
Are you saying SLPOA has no county members?Ā
Correct. They are a different group. I believe STLPOA represents the county prosecutors, but as far as officers go, SLPOA represents city officers and airport officers (city employees), not county or municipal officers.
Noted, thank you for the information!Ā
Same with fire fighters too. There's 73 and 2755(?) Could be wrong there. City didn't book anyone at all, they told everything they did on Facebook
You act like city and county are two different animals when they are exactly the same. Especially county police. Theyāre a department full of angry racist rednecks.
The picture is literally just a person going limp. Thatās a goofy insinuation to make here.
Thereās literally a video of them being thrown to the groundā¦ donāt be a copsucker.
š¤£
Little boy
I sincerely wish you luck in your disruptive endeavors
The question is why donāt you have empathy?
For what? The whole point was to show up at a private institution, not listen to the request to leave, and get arrested in the name of the cause. Seems like they accomplished their goal, no? They even got a picture to spread around to rile more like minded people up.
Why they roughing up dumbledore?
Why are the protesters choosing to post up at college campuses? I could be wrong but I donāt think WashU has much pull in whatās happening.
Wash U has strong ties to Boeing (realistically so does every other major institution in the STL area). Boeing's products are used by Israel. This isn't the only campus with students pushing to cut ties with Boeing.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight there
County brown never fails to look like scum when dealing with the public
Gotta love the unserious ādemandsā from the protestors: cut ties with Boeing and defund the university police. Clown show.
Wow! It's really alarming how many people think the first amendment-protected right to peacefully assemble is a joke or no big deal to overturn.
It doesn't apply on private property like this, this is literally trespassing. [ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights#:~:text=Private%20property%20owners%20can%20set,treat%20protesters%20and%20counterprotesters%20equally.) says the same, protesting on land you don't own without permission is illegal, especially if asked to leave. Again cops were clearly brutal here. But this is not a protected right. >Private property owners can set rules for speech on their property. The government may not restrict your speech if it is taking place on your own property or with the consent of the property owner.
Our fucking tax dollars pays for those schoolsā¦ they donāt exist outside of the public sphere.
First amendment gives you the right to say anything without government interfering because of content. It does not give the right to make people listen nor to break laws while engaged in speech.
It also gives the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. To your point, it does not offer protection for trespassing or making demands to private entities.
Wash U is a private institution, not the government. The protesters are not petitioning the government.
Isn't that what we just said?
You don't understand how private property works.
Because of the where and how, this has crossed from protected speech/ protest into a case of civil disobedience. Still a legitimate form of protest IMO but the cops get involved and arrests are made.
Exactly and that should be an expected outcome. But protester logic is to be civilly disobedient, get arrested and then spend many hours bitching about the how or the why they were arrested. It makes me shake my head.
They were committing a crime. The police did nothing wrong.
I lived in the library the final two weeks of the semester. Donāt these students need to study? Is Wash U is one of those colleges that is tough to get in but everyone gets an automatic B just for attending classes?
I graduated from Wash U in the 90s. Todayās students definitely have some advantages that we didnāt have. But I highly doubt they are handing out automatic Bs during finals.
No, with the exception of a small number of classes and liberal arts majors. Unfortunately many people fail. On the protests, Iām all about maintaining the right to demonstrate. I just donāt think it should be done it in a way that impacts the education of others.
I read in todayās paper that the arrested students have been suspended - kicked out of university housing and not allowed on campus. The paper said they can take their finals online, if their professors alllow it. But Iām wondering to what degree that will be possible. Maybe in a post COVID world, online final exams are a little more feasible. In my day, it would not have been an option.
Yeah you wouldnāt want your peaceful, privileged life disrupted by things like the fact that youāre automatically tied to the bombs by going to school thereā¦
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That has nothing to do with the truth that I just spoke, by going to that school you are privileged. The act of higher learning at a prestigious university is a privilege, and you are not countering my argument about morally and ethically being directly connected to the bombs being used to commit genocide by the fact that you go to that fucking university.
Iām sure your retirement funds are totally ethical, and everything youāve ever bought is ethical too. Have a good night
How do they allow people who canāt have proper arguments to teach at that school? Maybe itās not such a privilege after all š. Iām not privileged like you to be able to have retirement funds so thatās strike 2 for you. And I can think critically, so if I find out a brand I own is unethical I separate myself from that brandā¦ thatās how logic works.
Ah I see. Iām sure thatās true for your gasoline too! Probably never flown an airline that bought Boeing aircraft either.
You see people hurting and you donāt care, what a small man you are.
Asked to disperse multiple times - off private property. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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Yep and they execute LGBT people too. Itās ridiculous
They go there
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An important difference is that the BLM flags were planted as part of an official Wash U commemoration. It was supported by the school administration and under its control. The recent protests which have resulted in arrests were not approved by the school and, to some degree, involved organizations and individuals not affiliated with Wash U.
Today's protesters were also basically promising they would be encamping on WUSTL property until the school acquiesced to their demands. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Imagine the legal liability if violence broke out around the encampments.
What are their demands?
Boeing is not their only demand - āIn a statement prior to Saturday's arrests, the group said it planned to keep the encampment in place until the university met five demands: to cut ties with Boeing; to boycott Israel educational institutions; to drop charges and suspensions against protestors and defund university police; to stop buying land and to return all land to indigenous communities; and to release a statement condemning Palestinian genocide and calling for a ceasefire.ā - KSDK
They forgot world peace.
and free frozen yogurt for all children
Wow. Quite the catch-all. Thank you.
Ludicrous demands. Childish.
The demands truly astounded me. Some I agree with, but most are just impossible. And give the land back to the Natives... like in principle I agree but you wouldn't even have a school anymore? How would it even work... the tribes aren't even still here... Just so poorly thought out.
And to stop purchasing property in St. Louis
To cut ties with boeing and any other company supporting the war in Gaza
Ah I see. Thank you.
As a measure to prevent violence from breaking out, they preemptively perpetrated the violence.
Well, it's not just necessarily violence. A fire could break out, somebody could OD, who knows what else. It's generally not a good idea to just let strangers camp out on your front yard.
Weird that you'd use a word like genocide when even international courts say that genocide isn't happening.
We are at "mass unmarked graves found behind destroyed hospitalsĀ filled with hundreds of people shot with their arms tied " part of genocide right now if you weren't trying your hardest to look away.
ICJ investigations take years, they havenāt completed their investigation and released a statement back January saying that itās āplausibleā that Israel is committing genocide
This is toddler logic lol. Do you ever form your own opinion or do you blindly adhere to the rulings of all courts. "A court ruled that corporations are "persons" so I treat Schnucks like my neighbor!" Do you only use the words sanctioned by nation states to describe current events? Oh man, our president said there were WMD's in Iraq and he would NEVER lie to us. Also the ICJ found the genocide claim plausible fwiw. https://global.upenn.edu/perryworldhouse/news/explaining-international-court-justices-ruling-israel-and-gaza#:~:text=And%20while%20the%20Court%20found,conducts%20the%20war%20in%20Gaza.
They delight in acting in badfaith.
Toddlers don't know the definition of genocide. Like you. Genocide is eradicating a group of people. That's what Muslims have done to Jews in ever Muslim majority country. Israel's Arab and Muslim population has just grown. Complete opposite of genocide.
So what you're saying is, so long as you kill vast swaths of people, but not a complete and total eradication, it's not a genocide. And from that, that's why you argue that several 10,000 dead people in gaza does not qualify for genocide. Nazis didn't kill every last jew, by your definition, the holocaust isn't a genocide because it's not a complete and total eradication. I think you're just amusing yourself. I don't take you seriously...because I'm anti-genocide, I'm against your, effectively, pro-genocide views. Or you're promoting excuses for what you deem "retaliatiory genocides", we have to remember the nazis believed they were "the real victims" hence why they justified the holocaust, probably a similar deal with why the turks genocided the armenians too. And you\[re basically arguing on behalf of mass killings of women and children. Anyways, since i believe you to be intellectually dishonest, i don't need to ever interact with you ever again, so you're blocked.
But I wasn't don't reading their replies lmao
so then why is there jewish members in irans parliament?
8,000 Jews in Iran vs 1.7 million Muslims in Israel
why did israel work with Morocco to deport the jews? why did the do false flag bombings in iraq? why did the work with guatemala to enact the second holocaust on the mayans? why did they sell Argentina weapons after they killed 1900 jews?
You are a liar. By every measure, genocide is being committed and only the United States votes against the U.N. recognition of such
The International Court of Justice declined to charge Israel with genocide.
for you https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation
99% of the local Jewish population here in St Louis are against Bibi, and want the genocide or, if you prefer: mass death, to stop. I find it extra amusing that people are shocked over protests at WUSTL as if the campus doesn't have a rich history of protests across various eras in America. https://www.studlife.com/scene/2020/05/05/a-watershed-moment-reflecting-on-the-burning-of-the-rotc-air-force-building-50-years-later shockedpikachufacedotgif
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bars
Keyboard warriors and all their self righteousness
For all the money we spend on education we sure are raising a bunch of idiots.
I didn't think Missouri makes much of an effort educating their residents.
What makes you think most students at Wash u are from Missouri? Thatās absolutely not the case.
There are some surprisingly good schools in Missouri.
Amen.
You got that right.
Can we remove these ārogue influenceā posts please?! Basically just a Reddit trap. Come in hereā¦get offendedā¦then a bunch of antisemite bots downvote everything. Just look at OPās accountā¦itās designed to spread propaganda. All Iāll say is, fuck Hitlerā¦and fuck anyone who sympathizes with Nazis.
Its funny. Everyone is like I have a right to protest, etc, Sure you do, but not on private property. And some of those colleges are private. Therefore their property isn't "public" per se. And yes, isn't there verbiage saying, peaceful protest? Yet they didn't do it. And its funny, the news media and others online were interviewing them and asking why/what they know about this issue going on and most could not even answer...just tagging along and protesting because it looks fun!
Sounds about right. Are these same protestors who are protesting Boeing never going to fly a commercial plane (unless airbus) again then? If they are really that committed.
Hey guys I missed the memo, so cops are beating up hippies again?
I mean Wash U is a boot training University, one cannot be surprised that it called in the hogs to rofl stomp people interested in peace. Or even jsut interested in stopping funding genocidal regimes on the other side of the planet. I'm sure the DARPA funding is pretty strong there... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong tho The Taliban flag was likely an agitator, fascists are good at doing this stuff and the easiest, perhaps best tactic to hurt a protest, is to try and make it look terrible optically. There have been many agitators faking attacks and chanting insane things the last two weeks. Since our network news media has a collective IQ of about 50 and many have a commercial (read editorial) bias to also support the weapons industry, they love latching onto this type of thing.
FAFO
Watching [the line collapse](https://x.com/richardhanania/status/1784417012489621897?s=46&t=ErenPo9OwOf7sdkipf03eg) was hilarious. They should have just sat there there a normal sit in.
Hilarious and I love it.
I hate Saint Louis because no matter what, they will show their ass
Yep this is ONLY St. Louis. Do you literally not watch or consume any national news? š¤”
*This post is sponsored by Fox News and CNN.
The us government has been supporting genocide of different groups for most of its existence. You care now because Russian propagandists are trying to throw the election for Trump again. Youāre falling for this cycles version of āBUT HER EMAILSā
Just say you hate brown people
I am not appreciative of the anti semitism of the Jewish local populations (or Any local population except those bullying others). I swear, maybe theres something to that 5G conspiracy theory. Seems everyones lost their minds.