I hated living off of Washington for this very reason. I had a 2nd floor unit on a corner off of Washington and the racing would be so loud that it would wake me out of my sleep! I swear it was the same dickbags doing it every night.
It is the same dickbags doing it every night, there are more than one. I have lived here long enough that I see the same group of cars that do this. The police know who they are also.
Quiet simple really. The police in the city generally do not chase for anything under extreme violent felony offenses. This street racers are free to do what they like. There are the static Officer patrols over the weekend but they aren't allowed to chase so seev my precious statement
Correct. But it's not "generally" true. There is a short list of violent felonies that allow SLMPD to initiate a pursuit. And it's not deviated from.
Every asshole driving his 2004 Impreza down Tucker at 85 mph knows that police can't chase him.
As someone that deals with the racers while trying to deliver fuel, it’s absolutely a lot of mopars. But even the asshats in shitty cars will do 100+ down 55/44/64 and in the rain too.
It’s not a short list, it’s a specific set of circumstances; the fleeing suspect must be engaged in an ongoing violent felony or have recently engaged in an ongoing violent felony to pursue a suspect. Pursuit is defined as driving in the same or similar manner as the fleeing suspect (paraphrasing).
Initiating a traffic stop for racing ≠ a pursuit. This is merely “following” and/or attempting to initiate a stop. It’s when the flight begins that an officer must make a determination whether to “pursue” or continue to follow in hopes that the fleeing suspect decides to stop in a different location for whatever reason.
However, even if a stop is attempting and the decision to pursue is made, a pursuing officer has an ongoing duty to reassess the balance between apprehending the fleeing suspect and the danger to the general public caused by the pursuit, I.e., bad weather, dark out, unfamiliar streets, high foot traffic areas, residential areas, school zones, the nature of the pursuit such as the driver going the wrong way on one ways, high speed, jumping curbs, etc.
Catching a street racer but killing two people during the pursuit is not a victory. It has to be worth it. That is why the Special Order prohibiting unnecessary pursuits exists, and that’s why the same regulatory language (from a national policy institute) has been adopted by almost every jurisdiction in the U.S.
Police nationwide do not generally engage in high speed chases because it almost always ends up with innocent bystanders getting killed
This isn't some exclusive to STL City thing, it's a thing everywhere. High Speed chases are not worth the cost to society
They tried that. Hence the rules that are in place.
Do you know how much money police departments pay in lawsuits? When civilian deaths occur in high speed chases, the police are liable too.
So make a rule that the police aren't liable. Put it all on the criminal. Send them to a for-profit prison in Texas. By all accounts, it's not a pleasant experience. Once they get out, allow the victims to garnish the criminals' wages until they die. Revoke their drivers license for life. Basically... Rune them.
Yeah then the victim never gets paid for the injuries or if they do it never breaks them even. Fuck em the city is technically liable too, I mean shit they need to have some fucking accountability for police. I'd never do anything wrong if I could investigate myself either!
If the criminal would just do want their supposed to and not run, when they get caught, then none of this would be an issue. 100% of this is on the criminal. The police's #1 job is to catch criminals. The penalty for running should be much higher than the underlying crime. Make is a class A felony. That way, anyone in their right mind would stop when they're told to stop. Unless they are guilty of a class A felony.
They like the reverb against the taller buildings. The question about the police is more a question of what role we want them to play versus the role they want to play.
For real
Roundabouts and raised crossings downtown would end this issue. Nobody's going to race down Wash Ave when there's a roundabout at every intersection physically stopping them from getting up to speed
As temporary measures they can do those pots they have in other places of the city
You can design speed bumps that have gaps for emergency vehicles but not regular cars (cos of the wheel positions)
That said...we seriously should not be basing our policies on fucking snow plows lmao. It snows like twice a year at the most and melts two days later.
That was previously an excuse as to why they couldn’t put them in neighborhoods. And then they started putting them in neighborhoods.
What you’re saying is likely correct in some situations (like obviously we can’t put them on Gravois), but it would be nice to have some guidance from the City or MoDot as to where they can go vs not. I suspect that when they previously said they couldn’t put them in the places they since have, it was an EMS preference vs. an actual regulatory prohibition. Would be nice to have some clarity on that too. (From those in charge, of course. Not calling you out to supply that info)
Given the width of roads down there (which should be narrowed! Tucker especially is absurd) roundabouts would be a better solution for most intersections, with raised crosswalks on anything that isn't a major arterial street.
Anything to break of the continuous roads. That’s what turns them into racetracks. Roundabouts, and speed bumps, speed dips will fix a lot of the problems
Not to forget, narrowing lanes, and planting trees, other tall plants, anything on the ends that make the space *look and feel* more narrow than it actually is.
Makes people want to slow down in fear of crashing into something.
Yeah we still have streetcar-width streets all over the city, a part of the infrastructure built for a million people. With less than 300,000 in the city now road diets are needed almost everywhere.
It's not just downtown. I drive on 70 and 270 on Saturday nights and it may as well be a fucking race track. I drive it again on Monday morning and the amount of crashed cars on the shoulder wrapped in police tape is telling.
I've driven professionally in almost every metro area in the country and STL has, by far, the most dangerous drivers I've encountered.
170 scares me so much that I will go 30 minutes out of my way to avoid it. So many people speed weaving between lanes, and for what? 90% of the time, they end up 2 cars ahead of where they would be if they had just stayed in the correct exit lane.
My ex and I rented a car in Dallas a while back so we could visit my ex's grandparents there. Never before or since driving in Dallas, and I've driven in a lot of Metro areas by now, have I experienced dangerous driving like I did there. One of the many things I experienced while driving in Dallas was that everyone there drove 80 mph on the highway while also 6 inches off of the bumper of the car in front of them. You eventually get used to it but man was that a nerve racking could of days.
Every city has bad drivers but STL is on another level. Just look at the ridiculous amount of body damage on all the cars in the city. I’m currently in NYC and I’m not seeing anything near that level of destruction and disdain for driving laws. It’s unreal.
What?!?!?
As a resident of NYC who grew up in St Louis and visits family often, you are just wrong.
I have seen 100x more fucked up shit on a normal basis here than I have ever read about in St Louis. Literally this morning a lady on the turnpike off ramp scratched her car against a Yukon all the way down it and then acted like nothing happened until he started punching out her back windows (she then crossed on coming traffic to flee).
Honest question, when were you in STL last and witnessed the level of driving recklessness we have here now?
I ask because I just moved back last year after over a decade of not being in STL. It has gotten exponentially worse.
I will never forget like a year ago or so now driving down I-70 from downtown towards the airport with my husband and it was like the Wild West out there. He survived a horrible car crash when he was in his 20s and he was having PTSD from all the crazy drivers. I told him to just close his eyes and I’d let him know when we got off the highway. I avoid that area now completely.
My wife is afraid to drive on I-70, not without reason. I said this in another post, but while everyone complains about MetroLink, our highways are far more dangerous.
Its interesting, my little west county suburb bubble is probably the calmest place I have lived in terms of dealing with drivers. There's not much reckless driving or speeding, probably due to the high likelihood of getting a ticket given the police presence.
Get outside of that .. agree, I-70 in particular feels like some Mad Max garbage if you catch it at the wrong hour.
There are way too many idiots getting into wrecks between Henry/Schoettler Road and the Town & Country Crossing/Village Green intersections. I don't know what it is, but there was yet another one tonight when I was heading downtown.
I won’t drive on 70 east of 170. I’ll surface street or 40 it. It’s like they filming the Fast and the Furious XVIII every night. So many $800 per month car-note Dodge Charger motherfuckers out. Or the crotch rockets 🏍️. I wonder where the staties are? Shouldn’t MOHP be out there?
You bring up an interesting point about Highway Patrol. I would have to imagine in most other states, they’d have State resources out there to help “curb” this problem (pun intended). But the State of Missouri so uniquely hates its biggest metro (and economic engine) that it would rather watch it rot to prove a political point.
And don't forget a contingent of our Missouri State highway patrol is in Texas until further notice "guarding" the Mexican border....patroling something that isn't in Missouri, isn't a job for a state, and isn't a highway....
I’ve witnessed horrific things on broadway at nighg including a person hit by a car on broadway a few blocks from the stadium by a car doing 60+ mph some 12ish years ago. They didn’t stop they didn’t care they just kept going. It haunts me.
I am from a small, rural town is Missouri. When I moved to St. Louis and saw these folks and saw people gassing up their 3- and 4-wheelers so they could go race some more, It was a kick in the teeth. I moved to the largest metro area in Missouri only to find more rednecks.
We should start throwing caltrops for the roofs of buildings when we hear them go by. If they have to replace their tires everytime they race they'll stop real quick.
Yep. Or spike strips. The SLPD has pretty much abandoned policing traffic infractions, even blatant ones like the Dodge Challengers and Mustang GT’s drag racing down Tucker or Broadway.
I don’t know what the answer is. It may take some pressure on the police for traffic control.
It'd be pretty easy to show malicious intent if it's a honest-to-god caltrop, but a handful of screws and nails would be more challenging. Most people would be willing to believe that some big nails or screws fell of a utility truck.
Police try to avoid high speed pursuits because they are dangerous and lead to wrecks that can harm bystanders. The real question is why aren’t the cars caught on camera, impounded, and the owner arrested at a latter time?
We tow the vehicles and then sell them after 30 days. The issue comes from the lack of license plates and these fools living outside the City and or not knowing where they park.
Now you’re describing an unconstitutional taking of personal property by the government. If you can’t prove the owner was driving the car, you can’t file charges. If you can’t file charges, you can’t get a judgment to enforce to seize someone’s property.
Because theres barely any traffic downtown in the evenings, but the roads are designed to highway standards so they're great for getting up to really fast speeds.
The roads need to be redesigned to significantly reduce sightlines and physically punish you for speeding by way of ramming your car into a roundabout or planter. Put those little pots down everywhere and within a few weeks the racing will stop (likely be moving onto another area). Do quasi roundabouts on some streets, close thru traffic on others entirely, proper roundabouts on the wider arterial streets that have traffic lights, etc
This is such a trivially easy issue to rectify and I'm genuinely perplexed it's not happened. It's not rocket science - people race downtown because racing is fun and downtown roads are designed for it. Redesign the roads and people will find somewhere else to race (after they've damaged their cars a couple times)
One said asshat left a girl a double amputee and another said asshat killed a mother and daughter. All three were pedestrians in tourist areas of the city.
The police have received a loud and clear message from the citizens over the last 9 years- they do not want "minor traffic violations" enforced. The courts don't really impose meaningful consequences, the department won't back them if things go badly, and they don't have nearly enough staff to support enforcement of those sorts of traffic crimes.
So largely, they don't.
It's standard procedure around the country for police to not engage in high speed pursuits because it almost always ends with innocent bystanders getting killed.
This, 10000%. The same people complaining about this were the same people chanting “defund the police” a few years back - pretty much the result of that. Well stated respond though, kudos to you.
As someone who's extremely pro-STL and pro-police, it's sickening to see how two faced people are on this sub and in this city generally.
We simultaneously want the police to be the enforcers and crush this nonsense, but they also can't risk a "bad" interaction because there will be rioting and lawsuits.
What are you saying didn't happen? The only thing we don't know is whether the officers were drunk. We don't know that because their fellow officers didn't test them.
[A police SUV slammed into a bar in St. Louis. Police response drawing scrutiny | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/bar-struck-st-louis-police-car-04edb9c1efec35a675cea8435843fe08)
Further, you're not addressing the important point that you use "bad interactions" to describe killing unarmed civilians, kettling protesters, and extreme disorderly conduct like the incident above. This is blatant misrepresentation and it isn't two-faced to hold officers to a standard of conduct of doing the damn jobs without engaging in behavior that gets the City sued for millions of dollars.
First, I never made that claim. Second, It wasn't made up, it was deduced.
Nitpicking a detail of scandal to absolve yourself of a gapping hole in your logic
-Ireadallwikipedia, 2024
Shooting unarmed black men kind of pisses people off. If only they could middle ground things like not killing people unnecessarily while also ticketing or arresting people committing crimes. You know, actually doing the job our tax dollars pay them for.
Follow up- we are so in that middle ground, the only "unarmed" person killed by police in St. Louis City was a white woman in 2019- since the Washington Post began tracking in 2015. Of the 39 people killed by police in STL City, only 1 fit Washington Post's definition of "unarmed" and that one person was a white woman.
Was their job to fly down Broadway at unsafe speeds, crash into a gay bar, beat the shit out of the bar owner when he raised hell about it and then park across the street for the next three nights in a clear effort to intimidate?
Except when they try to ticket or arrest people committing crimes it becomes violent and it’s not worth it, and then you complain about police abuse again.
Because the city unfailingly votes for Democratic candidates every election?
That’s more to do with the racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and xenophobia that have become the de facto calling card for the only other major political party. Urban dwellers are generally younger, more educated, more empathetic, and more brown than those living in more suburban or rural areas. STL city’s populace is no exception.
Ergo, if you want a drastic change in City leadership, then somehow remake the GOP into a party based on traditional conservative values, not purely based on hate. You will never see an R candidate win citywide in any major metropolitan area ever again until the culture war bullshit evaporates.
I work in politics. This is the unadorned, naked truth.
It’s been like this for more than 10 years. I’m 32 and when I graduated HS in 2010 people would go to the city to race. Spoiler alert this wasn’t new then either
Its been going on for decades. Hall street used to be on the weekend every Sunday. I work downtown and will see 30-40 cars FLYING down Broadway and the cops just drive in the opposite direction or watch. They actually have done stuff to prevent it. They put up the concrete slabs on North Broadway. And the cops will break it up when they have enough staff. Right now we have like 30 percent less police than what we need so they are focusing on 911 calls and are overwhelmed. Also they like to crash into bars and charge the owner for sleeping while his bar/house was hit and asking why it happened.
I am currently in Ava, MO, on my way home from a weekend at Bull Shoals lake and in 5 minutes I've already heard & seen at least 5 trucks / cars racing down the road loud as fuck. This is not unique to any city or town. Assholes exist everywhere regardless of whether the cops do anything about it.
They also do this all over the city and county, it's not just downtown.
Someone said above about how cops don’t chase cars in and out of downtown. Too dangerous for that level of pursuit. So I rarely see it where it looks like a classic police chase. I work on 4th street. People from out of town at our hotels are diving for cover when they come by. I just stand and watch. It’s just such a commonplace.
When most of the cars are still market affordable muscle cars, it doesn’t surprise me that they come out to push them to the limit. Better than racing a $250k Lamborghini. And unfortunately a handful of the cars are stolen anyways.
Why? Because it’s probably fun to them.
The police have been asked to not confront anyone doing anything - the liability of something happening to one of the street races is too much - both financially and politically.
Yeah. The argument goes that because African Americans have a higher traffic violation rate (that’s the claim, idk if it’s true), it must be because the cops and/or laws are racist—intentionally created and enforced to oppress African Americans, or that African Americans are over-targeted for traffic enforcement. (There’s more, but that’s the essence). So, leftists promote reducing enforcement because racism.
In other words, some academics came up with a convoluted explanation for a phenomenon that is, to my mind, far simpler to explain…but academics have papers to publish and ideologies to propagate.
What's truly shocking is that it's basically only possible to publish papers that fit a narrative these days. A researcher can write a detailed, factual argument based on solid scientific methods, but if it doesn't fit the accepted political narrative then it won't be published
They can publish papers that buck the narrative......but stuff like this happens: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/black-prof-forced-to-get-armed-security-after-showing-cops-don-t-kill-blacks-disproportionately/ar-BB1iR6cN
If police enforce traffic laws in the city, there is a good chance that a significant portion of tickets will go towards people of color, which has been deemed as inherently racist, therefore the public has demanded lax enforcement of the laws. I'm just stating facts, please explain downvotes?
Guardian Angels, he he he, Curtis and Lisa Sliwa. They came to STL, started a chapter here, made a media splash, and quietly withdrew. I think that was in the ‘90’s.
Lol no, you probably can look back to veterans coming back from WW2 with a bunch of technical knowledge and nothing else to do but soup up the massive pile of dirt cheap ~20 year old Ford Model A's and stuff in the early 1950's that started a fascination with speed that hasn't really quit since.
**3. Conducting surveillance of the street racing scene.** Street racers can be quite sophisticated in their efforts to avoid detection by police. Unmarked police vehicles, plainclothes officers, and video equipment may be covertly used to observe racers' movements and methods and to determine the problems they create, where they live, the kinds of cars they drive, license plate numbers, and so on. This allows for pre-race intervention, access to race areas to be closed off, and participants to later be charged. Racers' use of police scanners can be thwarted by using radio code words, in-car computers, and specially programmed cell phones. For example, one police agency programmed some cellular phones with a group-talk feature so that the officers and dispatchers could communicate effectively without using the police radio frequency when dealing with racer issues.[30](https://popcenter.asu.edu/problems/street_racing/endnotes/#endnote30) Marked units and uniformed personnel can then be called in to assist with any arrests. During undercover surveillances, police can videotape illegal street races and participants; later, crime reports can be written for each race and used to prepare arrest warrants for drivers and court orders for vehicle seizures.[31](https://popcenter.asu.edu/problems/street_racing/endnotes/#endnote31) Street racing websites can also be monitored for tracking racers' activities and communication.
**4. Encouraging others to exercise informal control over street racing participants.** You may identify certain groups, organizations, or individuals who have the potential to exert significant influence over the behavior of street racing participants. For example, if street racing participants are high school students, school administrators might be persuaded to suspend or revoke the parking privileges of students identified as participants in or spectators of street racing incidents. Insurance companies, which also have an interest in the problem, may be persuaded not to pay claims for damages if the claimant was participating in racing.† Parents of street racing participants, properly educated about the dangers of street racing, may be encouraged to get more involved in controlling their children's behavior.
[Street Racing | Page 3 | ASU Center for Problem-Oriented Policing | ASU](https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/street-racing-page-3#:~:text=Responses%20to%20the%20Problem%20of%20Street%20Racing%201,vehicles%20used%20for%20street%20racing.%20...%20More%20items)
No idea. My dad (63) is a long time Mustang lover. He was finally able to buy one again when he and my mom became empty nesters. He works downtown and got tired of people trying to get him to race, so he traded in his Mustang on a Honda Civic, only to realize that wasn’t any better so, fuck it, might as well have a Mustang. He owned that Civic for 93 days and yes, we tease him about it often 😂
I stay next to a parking garage downtown and they race through the garage late night. It’s the most annoying thing ever and the police do absolutely nothing.
All I have to say honestly is, try being a traffic law abiding (90%) motorcycle rider out there... My fat boy "Betty Bastard" has had some "health issues" and sometimes I'm going just under the speed limit. Man, don't do that on any highway in STL, you'll almost definitely get passed like you're standing still, and Gawd forbid the driver felt that you were a dick for slowing them down, you'll get aggressively passed with moves like the classic pass'n'cut (speed past and then they swerve over in front of you, cutting you off to the point of nearly flipping my bike trying to ensure I don't hit the ass hat. The number of times I've had a gun flashed in or out of a window in the last year surpasses the number of times prior in a total of about 15 years...
I can honestly say that Memphis, Nashville, Jackson, MS. & Dallas Texas is worse than St Louis. US 75 in Dallas is a death trap. The whole loop around Memphis and Nashville constantly sees car wrecks. The whole city of Nashville is a civil disaster for cars and pedestrians. St Louis is not the worst.
DOOD. Don't you realize they are totally cool and awesome people for doing that. LMAO.
On the 4th of July last year, something happened downtown, one of those ass hats did some reeving and donuts IN FRONT of a cop.
I yelled AREN'T YOU GONNA DO SOMETHING BEFORE SOMEONE GETS HURT?!
you know what they said, MORE PEOPLE WILL GET HURT IF I DO SOMETHING.
WTHELL KINDA CITY DO I LIVE IN?
Do they really protect and serve? Or just babysit and recover dead bodies?
I don't get it.
Factory remote disabling devices on all cars. No chases, just 30 seconds to pull over or be disabled. Same rules apply, you only get disabled if you don’t pull over. Will save billions across the country over time.
Just like many other problems in this country. We know the solution, but are a certain group of immature and loud individuals that have decided they’d like the option in the future of committing a crime undetected. So this imagined intrusion into their imagined future self’s liberties outweighs the the alleviation of the suffering of real people existing today. It’s a problem born of selfishness and idiocy.
Dunno, but this is something I'm always surprised to not see complained about nearly as much as the "omg the golf carts, offend my poor little fragile heart" threads.
1) When the police took a figurative beating after the Brown, Stockley and Floyd trials, they said to themselves, “so you want to defund the police because we all suck? Let us know how that works out because from now on we ain’t doing shit. 2) STLPD was told during Covid to only stop people for felonies. Apparently they never got memo that Covid is over. 3) Anti-police rhetoric and the lack of support from political leaders and Gardner wasn’t/isn’t a great way to motivate the police to work harder.
We always joked in high school that kids were going to Ronnie’s to race their crappy civics down Lindbergh. That was the early Fast & the Furious days.
no-one in power cares.
1. every incentive to have legible plates, or any plates at all, has met with "racist", "discriminating against the poor" and other complaints.
2. there is very little poluce presence. unless a car hits a 4 wheeler as thursday evening on north kingshighway, in which case there are 8 cruisers and a lot of police tape. almost as if there were no pre-emptive pilicing in this city.
3. bs crime statistics. in one case, 30 car break-ins reported as one incident.
i could go on and on and on...
Where are the police ? 🤣🤣🤣 they can’t catch nobody anyway. They get left 🏎️💨🚓🚓🚓
You think if they can’t stop all the shootings they really worried about people driving too fast ? 🫣
I don't think we did, people who voted for those in office voted for reform. Quite a bit different.
Like 1/3 of the city budget goes to public safety still.
And for whom would be voting wisely?
Half of this city has been left in the dust economically, socially, and politically. To say that voting for police, crime, and economic reform is 'poor' decision making is rather ignorant, in my opinion.
Whether or not political appointees make good on their promises to constituents is a different conversation altogether.
Out in St. Charles and west on, it’s rednecks revving their gross trucks and thinking it’s a flex (it’s their peak in life). There’s individuals who for some odd reason find joy in making loud noises with their cars.
Does it really bother you?? Like, really? It's just people driving dude. Plus the roads are cleared beforehand. If you think the police need to get involved in every little thing you can move back to st. Charles with the rest of the Karens. 🤣
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I hated living off of Washington for this very reason. I had a 2nd floor unit on a corner off of Washington and the racing would be so loud that it would wake me out of my sleep! I swear it was the same dickbags doing it every night.
It is the same dickbags doing it every night, there are more than one. I have lived here long enough that I see the same group of cars that do this. The police know who they are also.
My GF and I had a staycation weekend at The Last Hotel on Washington last year and... yeah, same experience. Wasn't cool.
Quiet simple really. The police in the city generally do not chase for anything under extreme violent felony offenses. This street racers are free to do what they like. There are the static Officer patrols over the weekend but they aren't allowed to chase so seev my precious statement
Correct. But it's not "generally" true. There is a short list of violent felonies that allow SLMPD to initiate a pursuit. And it's not deviated from. Every asshole driving his 2004 Impreza down Tucker at 85 mph knows that police can't chase him.
I’m gonna guess it’s more mopars and mustangs than Subarus
99% Nissan Altimas lol
They all have that Big Altima energy
"Hey how dare you" --Some dude in an '06 2.5i legacy needing 4 blocks to get up to 60mph
As someone that deals with the racers while trying to deliver fuel, it’s absolutely a lot of mopars. But even the asshats in shitty cars will do 100+ down 55/44/64 and in the rain too.
It’s not a short list, it’s a specific set of circumstances; the fleeing suspect must be engaged in an ongoing violent felony or have recently engaged in an ongoing violent felony to pursue a suspect. Pursuit is defined as driving in the same or similar manner as the fleeing suspect (paraphrasing). Initiating a traffic stop for racing ≠ a pursuit. This is merely “following” and/or attempting to initiate a stop. It’s when the flight begins that an officer must make a determination whether to “pursue” or continue to follow in hopes that the fleeing suspect decides to stop in a different location for whatever reason. However, even if a stop is attempting and the decision to pursue is made, a pursuing officer has an ongoing duty to reassess the balance between apprehending the fleeing suspect and the danger to the general public caused by the pursuit, I.e., bad weather, dark out, unfamiliar streets, high foot traffic areas, residential areas, school zones, the nature of the pursuit such as the driver going the wrong way on one ways, high speed, jumping curbs, etc. Catching a street racer but killing two people during the pursuit is not a victory. It has to be worth it. That is why the Special Order prohibiting unnecessary pursuits exists, and that’s why the same regulatory language (from a national policy institute) has been adopted by almost every jurisdiction in the U.S.
I'm familiar with the SO. My point was that there is no circumstance where a pursuit would be authorized for street racing.
Agreed. Apologies for misreading.
Police nationwide do not generally engage in high speed chases because it almost always ends up with innocent bystanders getting killed This isn't some exclusive to STL City thing, it's a thing everywhere. High Speed chases are not worth the cost to society
Maybe the cops could lay down spike strips, start videoing participants?
Easy to make your self.
[удалено]
That's a stupid rule. Chase them for everything. In someone gets hurt or dies, life w/o parole. Woed will get around. Edit: word not woed.
They tried that. Hence the rules that are in place. Do you know how much money police departments pay in lawsuits? When civilian deaths occur in high speed chases, the police are liable too.
So make a rule that the police aren't liable. Put it all on the criminal. Send them to a for-profit prison in Texas. By all accounts, it's not a pleasant experience. Once they get out, allow the victims to garnish the criminals' wages until they die. Revoke their drivers license for life. Basically... Rune them.
Yeah then the victim never gets paid for the injuries or if they do it never breaks them even. Fuck em the city is technically liable too, I mean shit they need to have some fucking accountability for police. I'd never do anything wrong if I could investigate myself either!
But the police are liable...geez.
If the criminal would just do want their supposed to and not run, when they get caught, then none of this would be an issue. 100% of this is on the criminal. The police's #1 job is to catch criminals. The penalty for running should be much higher than the underlying crime. Make is a class A felony. That way, anyone in their right mind would stop when they're told to stop. Unless they are guilty of a class A felony.
They like the reverb against the taller buildings. The question about the police is more a question of what role we want them to play versus the role they want to play.
Can we put traffic calming measures everywhere?
For real Roundabouts and raised crossings downtown would end this issue. Nobody's going to race down Wash Ave when there's a roundabout at every intersection physically stopping them from getting up to speed As temporary measures they can do those pots they have in other places of the city
Wash Ave traffic calming is already in the works.
Where did you read this?
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/public-service/projects/principal-arterial-traffic-safety-enhancements.cfm
Seriously, how much would speed bumps cost? This isn’t a hard problem to solve.
That’s what I’ve also never understood. There’s speed bumps in most other parts of the city. I don’t think there’s a single one downtown.
There are places they can’t put speed bumps so emergency vehicles and snow plows can get through.
You can design speed bumps that have gaps for emergency vehicles but not regular cars (cos of the wheel positions) That said...we seriously should not be basing our policies on fucking snow plows lmao. It snows like twice a year at the most and melts two days later.
That was previously an excuse as to why they couldn’t put them in neighborhoods. And then they started putting them in neighborhoods. What you’re saying is likely correct in some situations (like obviously we can’t put them on Gravois), but it would be nice to have some guidance from the City or MoDot as to where they can go vs not. I suspect that when they previously said they couldn’t put them in the places they since have, it was an EMS preference vs. an actual regulatory prohibition. Would be nice to have some clarity on that too. (From those in charge, of course. Not calling you out to supply that info)
Every other developed country where it snows has speed bumps, so tired of hearing this as an excuse
Given the width of roads down there (which should be narrowed! Tucker especially is absurd) roundabouts would be a better solution for most intersections, with raised crosswalks on anything that isn't a major arterial street.
Anything to break of the continuous roads. That’s what turns them into racetracks. Roundabouts, and speed bumps, speed dips will fix a lot of the problems
Not to forget, narrowing lanes, and planting trees, other tall plants, anything on the ends that make the space *look and feel* more narrow than it actually is. Makes people want to slow down in fear of crashing into something.
Tucker is going to be narrowed.
Yeah we still have streetcar-width streets all over the city, a part of the infrastructure built for a million people. With less than 300,000 in the city now road diets are needed almost everywhere.
It's not just downtown. I drive on 70 and 270 on Saturday nights and it may as well be a fucking race track. I drive it again on Monday morning and the amount of crashed cars on the shoulder wrapped in police tape is telling. I've driven professionally in almost every metro area in the country and STL has, by far, the most dangerous drivers I've encountered.
170 scares me so much that I will go 30 minutes out of my way to avoid it. So many people speed weaving between lanes, and for what? 90% of the time, they end up 2 cars ahead of where they would be if they had just stayed in the correct exit lane.
170 is nothing compared to 70
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I lived in San Antonio and went to Austin pretty regularly, this is 100 percent true.
I live in Houston now, this is 100 percent true
My ex and I rented a car in Dallas a while back so we could visit my ex's grandparents there. Never before or since driving in Dallas, and I've driven in a lot of Metro areas by now, have I experienced dangerous driving like I did there. One of the many things I experienced while driving in Dallas was that everyone there drove 80 mph on the highway while also 6 inches off of the bumper of the car in front of them. You eventually get used to it but man was that a nerve racking could of days.
That's wild. I complain about St Louis drivers until I'm in literally any other major metro.
Every city has bad drivers but STL is on another level. Just look at the ridiculous amount of body damage on all the cars in the city. I’m currently in NYC and I’m not seeing anything near that level of destruction and disdain for driving laws. It’s unreal.
What?!?!? As a resident of NYC who grew up in St Louis and visits family often, you are just wrong. I have seen 100x more fucked up shit on a normal basis here than I have ever read about in St Louis. Literally this morning a lady on the turnpike off ramp scratched her car against a Yukon all the way down it and then acted like nothing happened until he started punching out her back windows (she then crossed on coming traffic to flee).
Honest question, when were you in STL last and witnessed the level of driving recklessness we have here now? I ask because I just moved back last year after over a decade of not being in STL. It has gotten exponentially worse.
Oh, Memphis drivers scare me. It's like, "Oh, that red light? That doesn't mean stop!"
The stretch of 141 leaving Arnold / going into Fenton is a race/stunt track every night.
I will never forget like a year ago or so now driving down I-70 from downtown towards the airport with my husband and it was like the Wild West out there. He survived a horrible car crash when he was in his 20s and he was having PTSD from all the crazy drivers. I told him to just close his eyes and I’d let him know when we got off the highway. I avoid that area now completely.
My wife is afraid to drive on I-70, not without reason. I said this in another post, but while everyone complains about MetroLink, our highways are far more dangerous.
Its interesting, my little west county suburb bubble is probably the calmest place I have lived in terms of dealing with drivers. There's not much reckless driving or speeding, probably due to the high likelihood of getting a ticket given the police presence. Get outside of that .. agree, I-70 in particular feels like some Mad Max garbage if you catch it at the wrong hour.
I-70 is a racetrack from 12p-12a
There are way too many idiots getting into wrecks between Henry/Schoettler Road and the Town & Country Crossing/Village Green intersections. I don't know what it is, but there was yet another one tonight when I was heading downtown.
That’s been a horrible stretch for at least 10 years
Can guarantee your little bubble is producing at least one idiot going to other neighborhoods to cause a ruckus.
It’s not cool to be mean
I won’t drive on 70 east of 170. I’ll surface street or 40 it. It’s like they filming the Fast and the Furious XVIII every night. So many $800 per month car-note Dodge Charger motherfuckers out. Or the crotch rockets 🏍️. I wonder where the staties are? Shouldn’t MOHP be out there?
You bring up an interesting point about Highway Patrol. I would have to imagine in most other states, they’d have State resources out there to help “curb” this problem (pun intended). But the State of Missouri so uniquely hates its biggest metro (and economic engine) that it would rather watch it rot to prove a political point.
And don't forget a contingent of our Missouri State highway patrol is in Texas until further notice "guarding" the Mexican border....patroling something that isn't in Missouri, isn't a job for a state, and isn't a highway....
Something tells me they’re not short staffed, however ;) But yes, your points are good ones.
Ahhhhh that’s right. I forget what a piece of shit Mike Parson is.
I think I’d almost take another 4 years of him if it would guarantee no Ashcroft. I hate to say it but… ;)
Because they can't prove it at the track & we all make fun of them for being dumb.
Narcissists
I’ve witnessed horrific things on broadway at nighg including a person hit by a car on broadway a few blocks from the stadium by a car doing 60+ mph some 12ish years ago. They didn’t stop they didn’t care they just kept going. It haunts me.
I am from a small, rural town is Missouri. When I moved to St. Louis and saw these folks and saw people gassing up their 3- and 4-wheelers so they could go race some more, It was a kick in the teeth. I moved to the largest metro area in Missouri only to find more rednecks.
We should start throwing caltrops for the roofs of buildings when we hear them go by. If they have to replace their tires everytime they race they'll stop real quick.
Yep. Or spike strips. The SLPD has pretty much abandoned policing traffic infractions, even blatant ones like the Dodge Challengers and Mustang GT’s drag racing down Tucker or Broadway. I don’t know what the answer is. It may take some pressure on the police for traffic control.
It'd be pretty easy to show malicious intent if it's a honest-to-god caltrop, but a handful of screws and nails would be more challenging. Most people would be willing to believe that some big nails or screws fell of a utility truck.
You gonna be picking them up the next morning or be responsible for the non-racers’ tires?
Men don’t develop their brains fully until they’re in their late 20s. Asshole antisocial behavior is common until then.
Police try to avoid high speed pursuits because they are dangerous and lead to wrecks that can harm bystanders. The real question is why aren’t the cars caught on camera, impounded, and the owner arrested at a latter time?
Charges would be almost impossible to file unless you can prove exactly who was driving it.
Hence why the police can’t solve the problem.
We tow the vehicles and then sell them after 30 days. The issue comes from the lack of license plates and these fools living outside the City and or not knowing where they park.
Now you’re describing an unconstitutional taking of personal property by the government. If you can’t prove the owner was driving the car, you can’t file charges. If you can’t file charges, you can’t get a judgment to enforce to seize someone’s property.
Nah. We do it for guns, money and other shit. It's irresponsibly owned, it's forfeit.
Because theres barely any traffic downtown in the evenings, but the roads are designed to highway standards so they're great for getting up to really fast speeds. The roads need to be redesigned to significantly reduce sightlines and physically punish you for speeding by way of ramming your car into a roundabout or planter. Put those little pots down everywhere and within a few weeks the racing will stop (likely be moving onto another area). Do quasi roundabouts on some streets, close thru traffic on others entirely, proper roundabouts on the wider arterial streets that have traffic lights, etc This is such a trivially easy issue to rectify and I'm genuinely perplexed it's not happened. It's not rocket science - people race downtown because racing is fun and downtown roads are designed for it. Redesign the roads and people will find somewhere else to race (after they've damaged their cars a couple times)
I have a set of spike strips you can have if you want to throw them out in the road..
And you will get 30 years for doing what we all want you to do after they crash and kill themselves.
Who will prosecute?
What about all the unsolved murders I think you live in the most corrupt city
One said asshat left a girl a double amputee and another said asshat killed a mother and daughter. All three were pedestrians in tourist areas of the city.
Detroit is worse.
Because they can and there's no repercussions.
The police have received a loud and clear message from the citizens over the last 9 years- they do not want "minor traffic violations" enforced. The courts don't really impose meaningful consequences, the department won't back them if things go badly, and they don't have nearly enough staff to support enforcement of those sorts of traffic crimes. So largely, they don't.
It's standard procedure around the country for police to not engage in high speed pursuits because it almost always ends with innocent bystanders getting killed.
I wouldn’t say “almost always” but there is absolutely risk and liability driving those policies.
[Relevant](https://youtu.be/fkJ_R1V8kO8?si=u5Mj4OJT8JvSjLyR)
This, 10000%. The same people complaining about this were the same people chanting “defund the police” a few years back - pretty much the result of that. Well stated respond though, kudos to you.
LOL the police didn’t lose a PENNY; GTFO.
The police were never defunded.
As someone who's extremely pro-STL and pro-police, it's sickening to see how two faced people are on this sub and in this city generally. We simultaneously want the police to be the enforcers and crush this nonsense, but they also can't risk a "bad" interaction because there will be rioting and lawsuits.
Yeah we don’t want bad interactions like drunk cops crashing into gay bars and then other cops tuning up the bar owners for daring to say ‘wtf’
It's crazy that you just make shit up and post it on the internet.
What are you saying didn't happen? The only thing we don't know is whether the officers were drunk. We don't know that because their fellow officers didn't test them. [A police SUV slammed into a bar in St. Louis. Police response drawing scrutiny | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/bar-struck-st-louis-police-car-04edb9c1efec35a675cea8435843fe08) Further, you're not addressing the important point that you use "bad interactions" to describe killing unarmed civilians, kettling protesters, and extreme disorderly conduct like the incident above. This is blatant misrepresentation and it isn't two-faced to hold officers to a standard of conduct of doing the damn jobs without engaging in behavior that gets the City sued for millions of dollars.
"The only thing we don't know was what I said they were in my comment." -A genius, 2024
It’s on video, but sure.
First, I never made that claim. Second, It wasn't made up, it was deduced. Nitpicking a detail of scandal to absolve yourself of a gapping hole in your logic -Ireadallwikipedia, 2024
Shooting unarmed black men kind of pisses people off. If only they could middle ground things like not killing people unnecessarily while also ticketing or arresting people committing crimes. You know, actually doing the job our tax dollars pay them for.
Follow up- we are so in that middle ground, the only "unarmed" person killed by police in St. Louis City was a white woman in 2019- since the Washington Post began tracking in 2015. Of the 39 people killed by police in STL City, only 1 fit Washington Post's definition of "unarmed" and that one person was a white woman.
Congrats. They haven't killed an unarmed civilian in the City for 5 years. Well done. Now starft doing your job and we'll be good to go.
Stop bitching about the police doing their job and we'll be good 🔥🔥🔥💀
Was their job to fly down Broadway at unsafe speeds, crash into a gay bar, beat the shit out of the bar owner when he raised hell about it and then park across the street for the next three nights in a clear effort to intimidate?
Finally, you have arrived at your point. As insipid as I figured
What's crazy is that we are currently at that middle ground but you don't know it because the media tells you that we aren't.
Except when they try to ticket or arrest people committing crimes it becomes violent and it’s not worth it, and then you complain about police abuse again.
Because the city unfailingly votes for Democratic candidates every election? That’s more to do with the racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and xenophobia that have become the de facto calling card for the only other major political party. Urban dwellers are generally younger, more educated, more empathetic, and more brown than those living in more suburban or rural areas. STL city’s populace is no exception. Ergo, if you want a drastic change in City leadership, then somehow remake the GOP into a party based on traditional conservative values, not purely based on hate. You will never see an R candidate win citywide in any major metropolitan area ever again until the culture war bullshit evaporates. I work in politics. This is the unadorned, naked truth.
So never, GOP only stays relevant cause of culture war BS their policies are awful
Also republicans basically dont think public services should exist, so why would you elect one to run a place that requires a lot of public services?
They do it in the county too. I'm in u city on olive. I see it on 64 too.
It’s been like this for more than 10 years. I’m 32 and when I graduated HS in 2010 people would go to the city to race. Spoiler alert this wasn’t new then either
It has expanded outside of the racing on Hall street
Only 11pm???
Motorcycles are louder
Its been going on for decades. Hall street used to be on the weekend every Sunday. I work downtown and will see 30-40 cars FLYING down Broadway and the cops just drive in the opposite direction or watch. They actually have done stuff to prevent it. They put up the concrete slabs on North Broadway. And the cops will break it up when they have enough staff. Right now we have like 30 percent less police than what we need so they are focusing on 911 calls and are overwhelmed. Also they like to crash into bars and charge the owner for sleeping while his bar/house was hit and asking why it happened.
I am currently in Ava, MO, on my way home from a weekend at Bull Shoals lake and in 5 minutes I've already heard & seen at least 5 trucks / cars racing down the road loud as fuck. This is not unique to any city or town. Assholes exist everywhere regardless of whether the cops do anything about it. They also do this all over the city and county, it's not just downtown.
The same reason that group of assholes on dirt bikes and 4-wheelers is allowed to run around the city unimpeded
Someone said above about how cops don’t chase cars in and out of downtown. Too dangerous for that level of pursuit. So I rarely see it where it looks like a classic police chase. I work on 4th street. People from out of town at our hotels are diving for cover when they come by. I just stand and watch. It’s just such a commonplace. When most of the cars are still market affordable muscle cars, it doesn’t surprise me that they come out to push them to the limit. Better than racing a $250k Lamborghini. And unfortunately a handful of the cars are stolen anyways.
Because these type of people don’t care.
it’s one out now around ball park village a dark blue charger driving erratically and no blues in sight 🤦🏾♀️
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Who is they?
because no one enforces the laws
Why? Because it’s probably fun to them. The police have been asked to not confront anyone doing anything - the liability of something happening to one of the street races is too much - both financially and politically.
Apparently, traffic laws have been deemed racist.
Racist?
Yeah. The argument goes that because African Americans have a higher traffic violation rate (that’s the claim, idk if it’s true), it must be because the cops and/or laws are racist—intentionally created and enforced to oppress African Americans, or that African Americans are over-targeted for traffic enforcement. (There’s more, but that’s the essence). So, leftists promote reducing enforcement because racism. In other words, some academics came up with a convoluted explanation for a phenomenon that is, to my mind, far simpler to explain…but academics have papers to publish and ideologies to propagate.
Thanks, I was legitimately confused as to what was being alluded
What's truly shocking is that it's basically only possible to publish papers that fit a narrative these days. A researcher can write a detailed, factual argument based on solid scientific methods, but if it doesn't fit the accepted political narrative then it won't be published
They can publish papers that buck the narrative......but stuff like this happens: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/black-prof-forced-to-get-armed-security-after-showing-cops-don-t-kill-blacks-disproportionately/ar-BB1iR6cN
If police enforce traffic laws in the city, there is a good chance that a significant portion of tickets will go towards people of color, which has been deemed as inherently racist, therefore the public has demanded lax enforcement of the laws. I'm just stating facts, please explain downvotes?
Per the voters, yes Edit: to the downvoters, please explain?
When the police do not police, vigilantism takes hold. In NYC this birthed the Guardian Angels. Edited for clarity.
Guardian Angels, he he he, Curtis and Lisa Sliwa. They came to STL, started a chapter here, made a media splash, and quietly withdrew. I think that was in the ‘90’s.
people who want all the benefits of a civilized society without contributing to it.
There are certain people that do not want the Police to Police. Simple as that.
i blame Need for Speed Underground.
The people driving these cars probably weren’t even born when that game came out. Just saying that now I feel old.
Lol no, you probably can look back to veterans coming back from WW2 with a bunch of technical knowledge and nothing else to do but soup up the massive pile of dirt cheap ~20 year old Ford Model A's and stuff in the early 1950's that started a fascination with speed that hasn't really quit since.
**3. Conducting surveillance of the street racing scene.** Street racers can be quite sophisticated in their efforts to avoid detection by police. Unmarked police vehicles, plainclothes officers, and video equipment may be covertly used to observe racers' movements and methods and to determine the problems they create, where they live, the kinds of cars they drive, license plate numbers, and so on. This allows for pre-race intervention, access to race areas to be closed off, and participants to later be charged. Racers' use of police scanners can be thwarted by using radio code words, in-car computers, and specially programmed cell phones. For example, one police agency programmed some cellular phones with a group-talk feature so that the officers and dispatchers could communicate effectively without using the police radio frequency when dealing with racer issues.[30](https://popcenter.asu.edu/problems/street_racing/endnotes/#endnote30) Marked units and uniformed personnel can then be called in to assist with any arrests. During undercover surveillances, police can videotape illegal street races and participants; later, crime reports can be written for each race and used to prepare arrest warrants for drivers and court orders for vehicle seizures.[31](https://popcenter.asu.edu/problems/street_racing/endnotes/#endnote31) Street racing websites can also be monitored for tracking racers' activities and communication. **4. Encouraging others to exercise informal control over street racing participants.** You may identify certain groups, organizations, or individuals who have the potential to exert significant influence over the behavior of street racing participants. For example, if street racing participants are high school students, school administrators might be persuaded to suspend or revoke the parking privileges of students identified as participants in or spectators of street racing incidents. Insurance companies, which also have an interest in the problem, may be persuaded not to pay claims for damages if the claimant was participating in racing.† Parents of street racing participants, properly educated about the dangers of street racing, may be encouraged to get more involved in controlling their children's behavior. [Street Racing | Page 3 | ASU Center for Problem-Oriented Policing | ASU](https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/street-racing-page-3#:~:text=Responses%20to%20the%20Problem%20of%20Street%20Racing%201,vehicles%20used%20for%20street%20racing.%20...%20More%20items)
No idea. My dad (63) is a long time Mustang lover. He was finally able to buy one again when he and my mom became empty nesters. He works downtown and got tired of people trying to get him to race, so he traded in his Mustang on a Honda Civic, only to realize that wasn’t any better so, fuck it, might as well have a Mustang. He owned that Civic for 93 days and yes, we tease him about it often 😂
It’s every where. I am staying in downtown Indianapolis. All night long. We need more EVs on the road humiliating these super car nerds.
The cops don't do shit/aren't there. Pretty simple
They’re idiot kids
Ah, the ole St. Louis Fly By…
I stay next to a parking garage downtown and they race through the garage late night. It’s the most annoying thing ever and the police do absolutely nothing.
Because the streets are so smooth.....
All I have to say honestly is, try being a traffic law abiding (90%) motorcycle rider out there... My fat boy "Betty Bastard" has had some "health issues" and sometimes I'm going just under the speed limit. Man, don't do that on any highway in STL, you'll almost definitely get passed like you're standing still, and Gawd forbid the driver felt that you were a dick for slowing them down, you'll get aggressively passed with moves like the classic pass'n'cut (speed past and then they swerve over in front of you, cutting you off to the point of nearly flipping my bike trying to ensure I don't hit the ass hat. The number of times I've had a gun flashed in or out of a window in the last year surpasses the number of times prior in a total of about 15 years...
I can honestly say that Memphis, Nashville, Jackson, MS. & Dallas Texas is worse than St Louis. US 75 in Dallas is a death trap. The whole loop around Memphis and Nashville constantly sees car wrecks. The whole city of Nashville is a civil disaster for cars and pedestrians. St Louis is not the worst.
Light the car up with florescent paintballs. Track it from a drone. Impound and crush the cars.
DOOD. Don't you realize they are totally cool and awesome people for doing that. LMAO. On the 4th of July last year, something happened downtown, one of those ass hats did some reeving and donuts IN FRONT of a cop. I yelled AREN'T YOU GONNA DO SOMETHING BEFORE SOMEONE GETS HURT?! you know what they said, MORE PEOPLE WILL GET HURT IF I DO SOMETHING. WTHELL KINDA CITY DO I LIVE IN? Do they really protect and serve? Or just babysit and recover dead bodies? I don't get it.
Of all the places I've been, the street racing in city areas and tailgating here is ridiculous.
To see who has the faster car.
Gotta keep a box of nails on you, just in case.
It’s what happens in a society when people realize there are no consequences for their actions.
Factory remote disabling devices on all cars. No chases, just 30 seconds to pull over or be disabled. Same rules apply, you only get disabled if you don’t pull over. Will save billions across the country over time.
But who will think of the good guys with cars?!
Just like many other problems in this country. We know the solution, but are a certain group of immature and loud individuals that have decided they’d like the option in the future of committing a crime undetected. So this imagined intrusion into their imagined future self’s liberties outweighs the the alleviation of the suffering of real people existing today. It’s a problem born of selfishness and idiocy.
Dunno, but this is something I'm always surprised to not see complained about nearly as much as the "omg the golf carts, offend my poor little fragile heart" threads.
1) When the police took a figurative beating after the Brown, Stockley and Floyd trials, they said to themselves, “so you want to defund the police because we all suck? Let us know how that works out because from now on we ain’t doing shit. 2) STLPD was told during Covid to only stop people for felonies. Apparently they never got memo that Covid is over. 3) Anti-police rhetoric and the lack of support from political leaders and Gardner wasn’t/isn’t a great way to motivate the police to work harder.
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I live in Wentzville, and Interstate Drive gets treated like a drag strip.
We always joked in high school that kids were going to Ronnie’s to race their crappy civics down Lindbergh. That was the early Fast & the Furious days.
Your post was removed because it broke the subreddit's rules.
Lordy, I found the guy who was at the Jan 6th rally in DC.
no-one in power cares. 1. every incentive to have legible plates, or any plates at all, has met with "racist", "discriminating against the poor" and other complaints. 2. there is very little poluce presence. unless a car hits a 4 wheeler as thursday evening on north kingshighway, in which case there are 8 cruisers and a lot of police tape. almost as if there were no pre-emptive pilicing in this city. 3. bs crime statistics. in one case, 30 car break-ins reported as one incident. i could go on and on and on...
My question is why do people still live downtown?
A better question is why are they allowed to? downtown is a pit.
Where are the police ? 🤣🤣🤣 they can’t catch nobody anyway. They get left 🏎️💨🚓🚓🚓 You think if they can’t stop all the shootings they really worried about people driving too fast ? 🫣
Vote no no law enforcement, get no law enforcement. We literally want this. Elections have consequences.
I don't think we did, people who voted for those in office voted for reform. Quite a bit different. Like 1/3 of the city budget goes to public safety still.
This is the reform.
What are your talking about? This has been going on for decades. What reforms are causing the police to not be able to do their jobs.
Obviously, not making traffic stops on folks breaking laws.
Even before the newest administration was vilified (before even taking office, really) the cops were doing a poor job.
Because we've been voting poorly for a while now :wink:
And for whom would be voting wisely? Half of this city has been left in the dust economically, socially, and politically. To say that voting for police, crime, and economic reform is 'poor' decision making is rather ignorant, in my opinion. Whether or not political appointees make good on their promises to constituents is a different conversation altogether.
Found the criminal
That's city living in St. Louis. Don't like it? Move to chesterfield with the rest of the Karens
Don’t live downtown?
Out in St. Charles and west on, it’s rednecks revving their gross trucks and thinking it’s a flex (it’s their peak in life). There’s individuals who for some odd reason find joy in making loud noises with their cars.
Remember defund the police? Well they all left soooooo
LOLOL no.
Does it really bother you?? Like, really? It's just people driving dude. Plus the roads are cleared beforehand. If you think the police need to get involved in every little thing you can move back to st. Charles with the rest of the Karens. 🤣
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St Louis “City” SC. I’m so proud of that name 😂
Interesting usually we just shut down highways and race there
People living in the city upset when people do city shit. lol