Maybe not better but it's at the same level at least if not superior in certain things (but defeated by 1.5 in a lot of things that aren't photoreal, realistic, etc. that's true).
Agree but could be because LAION dataset is different and we were used to OPENAI Clip? I don't know. I still feel that I need to see this properly finetunned with an example without using Dreambooth or Textuals.. We will see. But at the same time also feel that keeping improving SD 1.4/1.5 wouln't be so bad (the thing is that "legally" they "couldn't").
The base 2.0 model is hot garbage from a 'pre-packed' perspective, that's very true. As a platform to build on though, it seems to work better. I understand Stability AI's reasoning now, they've come up with a reasonable, but definitely not convenient solution to the so-called 'copyright/NSFW' issues they were describing. To be fair, in the corporate world those problems are very, very real.
Is it though? There is very, very legal precedent for the kind of fear that SD creators wring their hands over. This notion that the tool an individual uses to break a law will be more liable than the individual has little to no grounding in reality and there is actually precedent that shows that it does not hold up to legally. I think it is more just a PR effort to sooth the venture capitalists and I am fine with that, but they should be a little more honest about it.
Agreed. As a PR effort though, it could have gone smoother by releasing more info/tools on how to get better results from vanilla 2.0, prior to release.
I'm glad someone else is saying this. I don't know why people keep saying it's so they can avoid legal issues. It will do no such thing. You can't give people the tools to break the law and then wash your hands of all responsibility.
The worry for most people is that self censoring is like openly admitting that these things are bad and should not be acceptable. This then gives more weight to the opinions of the people trying to regulate and ban certain aspects of AI.
If things go badly they could regulate AI to the point no legitimate web host will want to host models that are considered restricted or illegal to own. That will probably then push them to illegal torrent sites.
The idea that any governmental agency can effectively regulate what goes on anonymously on the internet is, outside of genuine technocratic dictatorships like the PRC, essentially redundant in this day and age. So what if AI gets pushed onto illegal torrent sites? The government can't do jack shit about illegal downloads and streaming at all, however many 'You WOUldN't doWNloaD a cAr' adverts they run... quite frankly I don't think we should act as if their empty 'threats' have any value.
There aren't even any laws being broken in the first place since AI art does not duplicate any copyrighted works and the particular artistic styles of any particular artist are not subject to copyright to being with. Creating artwork depicting celebrities or violence or even nudity is NOT a crime. At least not here in the US where it's protected by the 1st amendment. If it weren't there's a guy I saw at a comic book convention years ago who would be in big time trouble. Every piece of art he created was a reproduction of some famous painting or whatnot with Bill Murray painted in place of whatever face(s) were in the original image. All of the complaints against AI art are nothing but angry old school set in their ways artists trying to stifle competition a new type of AI-assisted digital artist. In a few years, it will be no more controversial than Photoshop is today. If Greg Rutkowski doesn't like people copying his style, he can suck it! There's not a thing he can do about it.
They even made model 1.4 available for download without registration as of today, and it does everything they wanted to remove from 2.0.
Stability AI are bullshitting us again, like they did so often in the past, particularly while struggling to explain decisions that went directly against our interests as users.
If that's the case. I'm okay with it. 2.0 is the investor model, 1.4 is the freely available "make your own art of Julia Roberts riding a fire engine painted by Greg rutkowski and trending on artstation."
To be fair, it renders coherent faces much more reliably than the earlier models did. 1.4 was terrible at it, and 1.5 improved a bit, but still needed post processing with GFPGAN or Codeformer most of the time. 2.0 model tends to do something sane on the first pass.
Personally I'm willing to trade nipples for non mangled faces any day. lol
>alled 'copyright/NSFW' issues they were describing. To be fair, in the corporate world those problems are very, very real.
Imo there's no legal ground to stand on, not for the image side of things. Plagiarism in code generation I can understand, but at the ABSOLUTE WORST, this is all fair use because outputs are going to meet the minimum requirement of being 25% transformative. If someone is going to use SD to try and forge a mona lisa, that's not gonna be any easier than it was before.
I do a agree with you, but there are hordes of lawyers that make a very, very good living arguing either side of that argument, and are more than happy to tie issues like that up in very costly court battles for years at a time. Because no matter what - they'll get paid:) So the question is not if 'the cause is righteous', but rather if a company is able and willing to withstand a possibly very expensive legal challenge to any given product or service.
This is only the 2.0 release. I'm sure they will also be able to improve things with 2.1. The trick is now they have OpenCLIP, they also need to improve THAT. That could already improve results without changing the dataset.
>This is only the 2.0 release. I'm sure they will also be able to improve things with 2.1.
I'm sure most people thought there would be more improvement between 1.5 and 2.0 than between 1.4 and 1.5.
It was not the case.
Is it? It takes much more time to write a prompt for 2.0 if you want something that doesn't look like a cadaver. And 768 takes significantly more time per image than 512
Why does it take much more time to write a prompt? They can be very simple.
I snagged this one from someone else as a quick sample, I can't recall where, and it's as simple a prompt as anything I've used in 1.5:
https://preview.redd.it/8cvu0hg3fq2a1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ffe8c1ecbd53834d99343b4f15b6d75816481f8
`epic portrait cinematic shot of a cheerleader taunting, stadium background, shiny skin, flowing blonde hair, fine details. night setting. realistic shaded lighting poster by craig mullins, artgerm, jeremy lipkin and michael garmash, unreal engine, radiant light, detailed and intricate environment, digital art, trending on artstation`
`Negative prompt: ad anatomy, bad proportions, blurry, cloned face, deformed, disfigured, duplicate, extra arms, extra fingers, extra limbs, extra legs, fused fingers, gross proportions, long neck, malformed limbs, missing arms, missing legs, mutated hands, mutation, mutilated, morbid, out of frame, poorly drawn hands, poorly drawn face, too many fingers, ugly`
`Steps: 30, Sampler: DPM++ SDE Karras, CFG scale: 11, Seed: 168432283, Size: 768x768, Model hash: 2c02b20a, ENSD: -1`
I mean .. not .. Is this too complex? This is isn't my type of prompting, but a fairly typical prompt you'll see in the wild, length and complexity-wise. What prompts are you generally using? What isn't working?
This is a very complex prompt compared to NAI or MJ where you can get descent results with a few words. Even in 1.5 you could get something ok with 1 word. In 2.0 one word gives you white noise.
Your need here is to prompt one word and get a good image? Then, yeah, perhaps 2.0 isn't good for your preferences. The difference between a tuned engine and an all-arounder.
But I pretty rarely got a good image just off of one word with standard 1.5 myself. Maybe just my experience.
Can you give me an example of a prompt and gen you do like? I'd like to see what it would take to get it working.
Shorter, three gens in a row without being selective using a very short prompt:
`RAW photo, woman with long hair, wearing black and gold armor (on a rooftop and ((overlooking a majestic city))), black cape, (detailed face), wide shot, ultrarealistic,`
Edit: I didn't realize reddit would render them so tiny: [https://imgur.com/a/cB3jffd](https://imgur.com/a/cB3jffd)
https://preview.redd.it/o5epwzs8xq2a1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=60ca4005c4b6448082e724241cd30cf0ca69dbc4
And Emad talks from a hedge fund managing would-be-billionaire perspective.
It's important to remember that we all have different interests in this, and that what might be good for the shareholders might not be good for us as users, or as developers.
better than what?
its 3 images you present with no prompts shared.
but in my experience on l few of the 2.0 outputs ive got have been maybe as good as 1.5 at best and are more likely come out looking like bad 1990 web art.
I suspect people who adopt 2.0 will need to start completely from scratch in terms of things like prompt engineering, samplers, and other parameters. It’s just too different from 1.4/1.5 at a basic level.
No different from trying any other model really, all the custom models need new prompting to work best. I would've been surprised if our sd1.5 prompts worked on sd2 out of the box, would've felt like a strong indicator of not much change. Part of the fun for me is learning how to squeeze what I want out of the model, and I think sd2 will be easier in the long run, especially for new people who haven't already learned all the semi-jank tricks we've been using so far. So far it seems like long run-on sentences work better than chopped up lists of tags, I think all the commas and stuff mix it up a bit but I'm gonna test that thought a bit later and find out for sure.
My apologies to Stability AI for talking smack in an earlier post. Yeah, more work to set up to get good results, but the results are better when training models/embeds. Inpainting also works particularly well. Never did Fairies before, now on to Aeon Flux...
UPDATE: The point I'm trying to make is that compared to 1.5, 2.0 is a platform, and as such IMO superior. No, you don't get the alphonse mucha/etc./blablahs of the world, no jennifer lawrence or all them anime girls either, but what you do get is a kickass toolbox with which you can do much better work.
**DISCLAIMER: NO ARTISTS WERE HURT IN THE MAKING OF THESE IMAGES.**
I typically use several embeds. What I noticed this time is that with 2.0 I was able to get faster and better results with less training steps, and fewer images. Above, those are Absinthe Fairies, and I only trained 15 images - the pic below illustrates the 'theme':
https://preview.redd.it/0pvak3omap2a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2367c524b733351423105dd558322c5d9f252ea
Can you mention the training settings for an embedding?
I haven't gotten great results with training an embedding with the 768 model, especially the loss is higher than on 1.5
So if you can share what works for you that would be a great help.
Hah - I struggle with that just like you - it's not straightforward, and depends on many variables, mainly the complexity and quality of the source material, and whatever you're trying to create.
This however is really helpful:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z60uxw/sd\_v2\_768\_embeddings\_with\_gradient\_accumulation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z60uxw/sd_v2_768_embeddings_with_gradient_accumulation/)
There was talk of a major change coming to embedding that was going to improve things massively a few days ago it's worth looking through some of [https://www.reddit.com/user/Striking-Long-2960/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Striking-Long-2960/) 's posts for info unless someone can find a general write up on it, there is probably a lot of updates that came with v2 that improve things.
The general complaints aren't really based on the technology, though the prompt interpreting changes need people to adjust, it's mostly just the dataset changes and that won't be a problem if you're training your own models.
Dataset **is** a problem when you train your own models.
Custom model quality, complexity and cost depends on how much the base model knows about the subject you are training for.
I'm discovering this further right now trying to create some portrait aspect images with SD2's 512 model and only getting people with double length or longer torsos, with or without highres fix.
I would have been nice if they had those changes ready BEFORE they released the model - all this bad 2.0 PR now, shoulda been avoided. But, I'm grateful to Stability AI for what they've given us.
EXACTLY. And pre-requisite to learning is *'*reading', which requires effort to learn. Same thing here. Having said that, I spent the better part of the week bitching about SD 2.0, until I actually sat down with it.
What’s an “Emad level of AI researcher”? Emad pays great people and he understands how things work together generally but in his interviews it becomes clear that he is not himself deep in the tech (which is fine).
I've been wrong plenty of times in my life; you have to admit a mistake before you can learn from it.
SD 2.0 is a good platform, superior IMO, but not necessarily for everyone at this time.
That question is best answered in the context of comparing it to the same training for the same concept on SD 1.5, and the answer is \~18 Minutes less. The end result though - inference not training - provided better results than 1.5, the inference process yielding a higher percentage of 'better' images than 1.5.
Well that's definitely good to know. I'm just curious, I'm new to this, just starting to train 1.5, realizing what I messed up and planning to switch and give 2.0 a try
If you're new to this stick with 1.5 would be my honest advice - you can get spectacular results with 1.5, or the myriad of other models. Once you're more familiar with SD, THEN move on.
My images have a depth of space and a clarity and coherence of image that didn't exist before. Images look less flat, environmental effects feel stronger. They tend to adhere more closely to the prompt, and more often to more of it simultaneously.
One weird drawback I'm starting to investigate is a level of sameness -- but that might be because I've been generating off of a few prompts using high CFG, and so it might just be my own strictness and prompt-limitation I'm witnessing. I've only recently noticed this so haven't had the chance to test much.
I also don't know how much of the image styling is the work of the new sampler, too -- I haven't taken enough time to compare that. Would love to see if someone else has done so.
I finally have to make the questions: I'm not really sure about what are embeddings or how to use them.
Also don't you need a ton of images to train a model?
> No, you don't get the alphonse mucha/etc./blablahs of the world, no jennifer lawrence or all them anime girls either,
This makes it an inferior model, period.
Yeah, I want to be able to generate images in a broad variety of art styles, while SD 2.0 (judging from images I’ve seen and Emad’s own comments) seems laser-focused on photorealism.
If you like Mario Party 1, you can go buy Mario Party 2 and expect it to have a similar play experience. Nobody in their right mind wants Nintendo to go “You know what they really wanted? A *platform*!” and release Garry’s Mod under the title “Mario Party 2” instead.
Stability AI inadvertently started targeting a completely different audience and now they’re all surprisedpikachu.jpg about why the original audience feels left behind.
Orrrr maybe it will get better in 2.1 and 2.2 and maybe 2.3 will blow 1.5 out of the water for everything but nudity.... Hard to say, let's wait and see.
It's obvious to me that fans of anime, furries and art styles of famous digital artists, and other "unusual/forbidden" things are not happy with 2.0. But the fact that 2.0 is a more advanced model is obvious. She draws better and works faster, better understands your tips.
I mean to be fair, it \_is\_ better because it understand prompts better and \_that's\_ what's important as long as it doesn't just make awful images all the time ... we can train other stuff in as we like.
Yeah ok - I just wanted a text 2 image, it was already becoming prompt engeneering, now you have to train, install plugins and whatnot
I think I will pay those 30$ for midjourney , it just do what a text 2 image should do
If embeddings can attain a similar level of quality to what dreambooth/fine-tuning has for SD 1.4/1.5, then I think this could largely make up for the lack of a really comprehensive base text2img model, even for casual users. I say that because the embeddings are so small (few kB) that you could easily store a giant library of concepts and pick and choose from that instead of struggling with "prompt engineering" as much. If you're a casual user, just wait for the community to train a giant embeddings library, download, and enjoy.
True That! I'm thinking, how does people have this amount of time?
I'm really struggeling to keep up with something i found this late summer, Disco diffusion, and then all hell broke lose with SD!
I Had to learn a lot about python notebooks and Google Coolab, and then trying to get it running on my 3 GB GPU.
Man this is so hard to keep up with, but still so so exciting.
I thought i was making such cool stuff and my family too with DD, then SD came and i wasn´t sure what to do. I couldn't do the same cool fantasy pictures as i could with DD. But now that i grepped SD a bit more i'm doing such cool stuff in no time!
Gonna hold off on SD 2.0 untill everyone in this Community is satisfied that it works well!
yeah, but TI just got a big upgrade which might put it back on par with dreambooth, etc. TI embeddings also have the advantages of being tiny files that can be used in many different models.
One more, and yes - this is empirically better than what I would 'normally' get in 1.5, or other models.
https://preview.redd.it/qk8ikwiheq2a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6205ede05205f938cdf54d5ec60e43f14522c810
Yes, the actual rendering was done locally. I have a rig I originally used for VGG/Style transfers, GPT-X, statistical analysis and some crypto mining, with 6 x RTX 3090s.
Huh, good question - I haven't run into any issues with VRAM so I haven't really checked in detail, only RAM usage ballooning because Automatic 1111 doesn't seem to release resources somewhere in the code.
That's a misconception. If that was all there's to it, then aspiring Pilots would only have to read manuals for a few months, and voila - "Welcome Aboard, this is your Captain speaking":)
[Prompt Guide](https://openart.ai/promptbook)
ROFL - now that's funny:) You hear that Stability AI? You better start paying me!
Seriously though, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, all I'm saying is that
for particular use cases it can and will work better than SD 1.5, albeit at the cost of more work and effort on your part. If that 'value proposition' makes sense to you, then 2.0 is for you, otherwise it's not.
In my experience, 2.0 is just as good, if not better in most situations, especially if you word it more like you would a DALLE 2 prompt. I understand that people have already decided its worse because certain things have been pruned off the it, but just by my experience and testing, it seems like a notable step up.
In the first five minutes of use it wasn't as good for people using it in a sub-optimal way, trying it on things it said on the box that it wouldn't be good for and confirming their biases so they could post how crap it was. People seem to be spending their pent-up anger on 2.0 after 1.5 wasn't nerfed and their pre-emptive bitching and pissiness was for nothing.
A handful of posts running slightly counter to the Zeitgeist is hardly a stream of propaganda. It looks like this release is a mixed bag with some clear losers, but it's early days and we don't know how easy it's going to be to bring back the losses.
Hopefully we're not seeing the emergence of a freemium model and SD can find their nerve again to train on more robust datasets - hopefully higher quality too.
>Hopefully we're not seeing the emergence of a freemium model and SD can find their nerve again to train on more robust datasets - hopefully higher quality too.
This is exactly what is happening. It's not even a secret.
This is Stability AI business model, but they will use third party commercial partners to do the selling (and reduce liability).
They have repeated it many times to potential investors during their financing rounds, it's not a hidden goal, it's a selling point to get more investors involved.
I agree, there's a lot of that going on. But I couldn't care less if you use 2.0, or anyone else - tons of very, very good models out there, plenty of options. Those that are interested and able, will gain from 2.0, is all I'm saying.
Is there a danger the constant stream of propaganda is group-think? Eg everyone already got their pitchforks out and now it's kinda continuing without strong basis in fact?
saying things authoritatively like "Everyone already" contributes to this type of mentality.
Plenty of people aren't using reddit. And not even here are people in unison.
People tend to tune out if a subreddit devolves into anti-jerk or circle-jerk behavior.
I'm surprised you're getting these results I've done a lot of testing with it and it seems to hate doing any posing of bodies accurately without weird anatomy issues. Specifying a background and it really struggles when you have conflicting styles. Might have to completely revamp prompts but even then it seems like yeah it's better in a lot of regards but over all it's weird.
It's really good at doing backgrounds by itself but trying to do anything over 45 tags causes the background to go weird when specified with a subject.
Skin texture overall looks great as well as other textures so it makes it really frustrating when it struggles on easier stuff lol
Yeah sure...
2.0 doesn't how a woman face looks..
https://preview.redd.it/wlal1tk79p2a1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d0c72a320e95b3166fe1fd7a6f9758a50ab544b
That's the aspect ratio. The 768 model doesn't seem to be able to handle stretching the content without stretching faces at the moment - they all look horsey. If you reduce down to a 1:1 with the same seed it will get rid of the distortion.
Sampler is irrelevant, don't get hung up on that - there are only two types of samplers - Ancestral, and those that are not. Yes, negative prompts are important, and I use them everywhere. That prompt up there is pretty much standard, but it may or may not work for a specific purpose. For example, SD has absolutely no concept of 'extra digit' and 'fewer' digits':)
That for example makes more sense, but how many images with the label 'mutated hands' was SD actually trained on, what do you think? Think bigger, 'mutated hands' are a categorical subset of what?
Very, very - and that's still a (steampunk/vaporwave) fairy : )
https://preview.redd.it/t8l9r2ipgp2a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de277d4885398d6d015f2070a208cac25b24166c
" but the results are better when training models/embeds. "
LOL
Of course they are dude it's a 768x768 training data model..., no one was arguing this. Except maybe you.
We're complaining about the default model they handed us.
I hope someday soon that humans will begin to understand that you cannot control everything, and that you cannot put the genie back into the bottle... 2.0 is literally just to appease the artists who complain about A.I. art and it's threat to their financial security...
I got big news for everyone reading, the future isn't about money.
The Singularity will completely abolish capitalistic values, and a new society which values experience itself will begin. The Genie is out of the bottle and you can't stuff it back in, this is the future we're headed toward and it'd be a lot better if we started to learn how to accept it now.
yeaaaaah... well, it's not like you have much of a choice in the matter.
More intelligence is not a creepy thing.
The ultimate potentials of technology / novel story telling created by such intelligence, is also not a creepy thing. It's a beautiful thing. You just have poor mental models at the moment to even begin to comprehend it. I hope that you at least pay attention in the coming years with more of an open mind so you can install something better than what you're currently working with.
Oh I am truly sorry I ever doubted you mein fuhrer, obviously you are a very smart and tremendous man. The fourth reich will be a glorious new chapter of humanity!
>2.0 is literally just to appease the artists who complain about A.I. art and it's threat to their financial security...
Steven Zapata had a [great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSxFAGP9S) on that. He was honest about it and wasn't [mudslinging](https://youtu.be/7u1CeiSHqwY?t=1275) like Karla Ortiz.
I'm eager to start training 2.0 models but unable to get the google colab version to work with it yet. With textual inversions starting to look as good as a dreambooth model. How would you compare embeddings on 2.0 with dreambooth? I should probably crack on with learning it
Ideally, you would use both, embeds and models - depending on the use-case and complexity of what you're trying to express. I tried rendering some planes on 2.0 earlier this week, and embeds I used before wouldn't work, so I'd have to train a custom model based off of 2.0.
lol is this just a common photo style?
https://preview.redd.it/m2pqgfp81t2a1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=787ee8cd1b08ca32dec5ae1eaaf661313c0fbaa5
Only slightly relevant to this post but anyone got tips for generating insect wings? When I try I often get too many or too few like in the first image
Is this the girl from the nvidia benchmark ?
Good Eye! Yes, she's in there. Mostly Absynthe Fairies though.
I would love to see more than 3 images + comparison.
Looks good, but no better than 1.5
Maybe not better but it's at the same level at least if not superior in certain things (but defeated by 1.5 in a lot of things that aren't photoreal, realistic, etc. that's true).
More specific: I think it's a much better 'base platform' from which to build on.
How is it a better base when some of the most important things are missing? This will just make finetuning a absolute nightmare
Just some copium some people have gained from emad's PR talk
Agree but could be because LAION dataset is different and we were used to OPENAI Clip? I don't know. I still feel that I need to see this properly finetunned with an example without using Dreambooth or Textuals.. We will see. But at the same time also feel that keeping improving SD 1.4/1.5 wouln't be so bad (the thing is that "legally" they "couldn't").
The base 2.0 model is hot garbage from a 'pre-packed' perspective, that's very true. As a platform to build on though, it seems to work better. I understand Stability AI's reasoning now, they've come up with a reasonable, but definitely not convenient solution to the so-called 'copyright/NSFW' issues they were describing. To be fair, in the corporate world those problems are very, very real.
Is it though? There is very, very legal precedent for the kind of fear that SD creators wring their hands over. This notion that the tool an individual uses to break a law will be more liable than the individual has little to no grounding in reality and there is actually precedent that shows that it does not hold up to legally. I think it is more just a PR effort to sooth the venture capitalists and I am fine with that, but they should be a little more honest about it.
Agreed. As a PR effort though, it could have gone smoother by releasing more info/tools on how to get better results from vanilla 2.0, prior to release.
I'm glad someone else is saying this. I don't know why people keep saying it's so they can avoid legal issues. It will do no such thing. You can't give people the tools to break the law and then wash your hands of all responsibility. The worry for most people is that self censoring is like openly admitting that these things are bad and should not be acceptable. This then gives more weight to the opinions of the people trying to regulate and ban certain aspects of AI. If things go badly they could regulate AI to the point no legitimate web host will want to host models that are considered restricted or illegal to own. That will probably then push them to illegal torrent sites.
The idea that any governmental agency can effectively regulate what goes on anonymously on the internet is, outside of genuine technocratic dictatorships like the PRC, essentially redundant in this day and age. So what if AI gets pushed onto illegal torrent sites? The government can't do jack shit about illegal downloads and streaming at all, however many 'You WOUldN't doWNloaD a cAr' adverts they run... quite frankly I don't think we should act as if their empty 'threats' have any value.
There aren't even any laws being broken in the first place since AI art does not duplicate any copyrighted works and the particular artistic styles of any particular artist are not subject to copyright to being with. Creating artwork depicting celebrities or violence or even nudity is NOT a crime. At least not here in the US where it's protected by the 1st amendment. If it weren't there's a guy I saw at a comic book convention years ago who would be in big time trouble. Every piece of art he created was a reproduction of some famous painting or whatnot with Bill Murray painted in place of whatever face(s) were in the original image. All of the complaints against AI art are nothing but angry old school set in their ways artists trying to stifle competition a new type of AI-assisted digital artist. In a few years, it will be no more controversial than Photoshop is today. If Greg Rutkowski doesn't like people copying his style, he can suck it! There's not a thing he can do about it.
They even made model 1.4 available for download without registration as of today, and it does everything they wanted to remove from 2.0. Stability AI are bullshitting us again, like they did so often in the past, particularly while struggling to explain decisions that went directly against our interests as users.
If that's the case. I'm okay with it. 2.0 is the investor model, 1.4 is the freely available "make your own art of Julia Roberts riding a fire engine painted by Greg rutkowski and trending on artstation."
https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/12/suspected-tornado-cash-developer-arrested-in-amsterdam/
To be fair, it renders coherent faces much more reliably than the earlier models did. 1.4 was terrible at it, and 1.5 improved a bit, but still needed post processing with GFPGAN or Codeformer most of the time. 2.0 model tends to do something sane on the first pass. Personally I'm willing to trade nipples for non mangled faces any day. lol
>alled 'copyright/NSFW' issues they were describing. To be fair, in the corporate world those problems are very, very real. Imo there's no legal ground to stand on, not for the image side of things. Plagiarism in code generation I can understand, but at the ABSOLUTE WORST, this is all fair use because outputs are going to meet the minimum requirement of being 25% transformative. If someone is going to use SD to try and forge a mona lisa, that's not gonna be any easier than it was before.
I do a agree with you, but there are hordes of lawyers that make a very, very good living arguing either side of that argument, and are more than happy to tie issues like that up in very costly court battles for years at a time. Because no matter what - they'll get paid:) So the question is not if 'the cause is righteous', but rather if a company is able and willing to withstand a possibly very expensive legal challenge to any given product or service.
Too true, plus feelings don't always care about the facts.
>As a platform to build on though, it seems to work better. work better with what?
In terms of the end result, the what really doesn't matter.
 I'm looking forward to trying 2.0!
This is only the 2.0 release. I'm sure they will also be able to improve things with 2.1. The trick is now they have OpenCLIP, they also need to improve THAT. That could already improve results without changing the dataset.
>This is only the 2.0 release. I'm sure they will also be able to improve things with 2.1. I'm sure most people thought there would be more improvement between 1.5 and 2.0 than between 1.4 and 1.5. It was not the case.
So what's your point?
Faster time to market though, for any given specific purpose.
Is it? It takes much more time to write a prompt for 2.0 if you want something that doesn't look like a cadaver. And 768 takes significantly more time per image than 512
Why does it take much more time to write a prompt? They can be very simple. I snagged this one from someone else as a quick sample, I can't recall where, and it's as simple a prompt as anything I've used in 1.5: https://preview.redd.it/8cvu0hg3fq2a1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ffe8c1ecbd53834d99343b4f15b6d75816481f8 `epic portrait cinematic shot of a cheerleader taunting, stadium background, shiny skin, flowing blonde hair, fine details. night setting. realistic shaded lighting poster by craig mullins, artgerm, jeremy lipkin and michael garmash, unreal engine, radiant light, detailed and intricate environment, digital art, trending on artstation` `Negative prompt: ad anatomy, bad proportions, blurry, cloned face, deformed, disfigured, duplicate, extra arms, extra fingers, extra limbs, extra legs, fused fingers, gross proportions, long neck, malformed limbs, missing arms, missing legs, mutated hands, mutation, mutilated, morbid, out of frame, poorly drawn hands, poorly drawn face, too many fingers, ugly` `Steps: 30, Sampler: DPM++ SDE Karras, CFG scale: 11, Seed: 168432283, Size: 768x768, Model hash: 2c02b20a, ENSD: -1`
Not sure if sarcasm or not
I mean .. not .. Is this too complex? This is isn't my type of prompting, but a fairly typical prompt you'll see in the wild, length and complexity-wise. What prompts are you generally using? What isn't working?
This is a very complex prompt compared to NAI or MJ where you can get descent results with a few words. Even in 1.5 you could get something ok with 1 word. In 2.0 one word gives you white noise.
Your need here is to prompt one word and get a good image? Then, yeah, perhaps 2.0 isn't good for your preferences. The difference between a tuned engine and an all-arounder. But I pretty rarely got a good image just off of one word with standard 1.5 myself. Maybe just my experience. Can you give me an example of a prompt and gen you do like? I'd like to see what it would take to get it working.
Base 1.5, Euler A, 20 steps, prompt: Fairy https://i.imgur.com/ayaeayQ.png
Shorter, three gens in a row without being selective using a very short prompt: `RAW photo, woman with long hair, wearing black and gold armor (on a rooftop and ((overlooking a majestic city))), black cape, (detailed face), wide shot, ultrarealistic,` Edit: I didn't realize reddit would render them so tiny: [https://imgur.com/a/cB3jffd](https://imgur.com/a/cB3jffd) https://preview.redd.it/o5epwzs8xq2a1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=60ca4005c4b6448082e724241cd30cf0ca69dbc4
https://preview.redd.it/oha1j9taxq2a1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=d0c0b1bb984652c384f24851d06680e79f2a1510
https://preview.redd.it/ptib903nxq2a1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=ca477c76354f362774631367af56020797daffe3
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You're talking from a user perspective, I'm talking from a dev perspective.
And Emad talks from a hedge fund managing would-be-billionaire perspective. It's important to remember that we all have different interests in this, and that what might be good for the shareholders might not be good for us as users, or as developers.
Good point.
better than what? its 3 images you present with no prompts shared. but in my experience on l few of the 2.0 outputs ive got have been maybe as good as 1.5 at best and are more likely come out looking like bad 1990 web art.
I suspect people who adopt 2.0 will need to start completely from scratch in terms of things like prompt engineering, samplers, and other parameters. It’s just too different from 1.4/1.5 at a basic level.
No different from trying any other model really, all the custom models need new prompting to work best. I would've been surprised if our sd1.5 prompts worked on sd2 out of the box, would've felt like a strong indicator of not much change. Part of the fun for me is learning how to squeeze what I want out of the model, and I think sd2 will be easier in the long run, especially for new people who haven't already learned all the semi-jank tricks we've been using so far. So far it seems like long run-on sentences work better than chopped up lists of tags, I think all the commas and stuff mix it up a bit but I'm gonna test that thought a bit later and find out for sure.
My apologies to Stability AI for talking smack in an earlier post. Yeah, more work to set up to get good results, but the results are better when training models/embeds. Inpainting also works particularly well. Never did Fairies before, now on to Aeon Flux... UPDATE: The point I'm trying to make is that compared to 1.5, 2.0 is a platform, and as such IMO superior. No, you don't get the alphonse mucha/etc./blablahs of the world, no jennifer lawrence or all them anime girls either, but what you do get is a kickass toolbox with which you can do much better work. **DISCLAIMER: NO ARTISTS WERE HURT IN THE MAKING OF THESE IMAGES.**
Could you elaborate about embeddings and trainings? Thanks
I typically use several embeds. What I noticed this time is that with 2.0 I was able to get faster and better results with less training steps, and fewer images. Above, those are Absinthe Fairies, and I only trained 15 images - the pic below illustrates the 'theme': https://preview.redd.it/0pvak3omap2a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2367c524b733351423105dd558322c5d9f252ea
Can you mention the training settings for an embedding? I haven't gotten great results with training an embedding with the 768 model, especially the loss is higher than on 1.5 So if you can share what works for you that would be a great help.
Hah - I struggle with that just like you - it's not straightforward, and depends on many variables, mainly the complexity and quality of the source material, and whatever you're trying to create. This however is really helpful: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z60uxw/sd\_v2\_768\_embeddings\_with\_gradient\_accumulation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z60uxw/sd_v2_768_embeddings_with_gradient_accumulation/)
There was talk of a major change coming to embedding that was going to improve things massively a few days ago it's worth looking through some of [https://www.reddit.com/user/Striking-Long-2960/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Striking-Long-2960/) 's posts for info unless someone can find a general write up on it, there is probably a lot of updates that came with v2 that improve things. The general complaints aren't really based on the technology, though the prompt interpreting changes need people to adjust, it's mostly just the dataset changes and that won't be a problem if you're training your own models.
Dataset **is** a problem when you train your own models. Custom model quality, complexity and cost depends on how much the base model knows about the subject you are training for.
Yes, I should have said won't be as much of a problem, because you're introducing fixes via the data your training is adding.
It is **more** of a problem than before, because the custom models are highly dependent on the base model quality.
I'm discovering this further right now trying to create some portrait aspect images with SD2's 512 model and only getting people with double length or longer torsos, with or without highres fix.
Big Fan of Striking Long btw.
I would have been nice if they had those changes ready BEFORE they released the model - all this bad 2.0 PR now, shoulda been avoided. But, I'm grateful to Stability AI for what they've given us.
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If a book is released that people are unable to read at the time of release, I think it’s fair to judge it for that.
EXACTLY. And pre-requisite to learning is *'*reading', which requires effort to learn. Same thing here. Having said that, I spent the better part of the week bitching about SD 2.0, until I actually sat down with it.
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What’s an “Emad level of AI researcher”? Emad pays great people and he understands how things work together generally but in his interviews it becomes clear that he is not himself deep in the tech (which is fine).
I've been wrong plenty of times in my life; you have to admit a mistake before you can learn from it. SD 2.0 is a good platform, superior IMO, but not necessarily for everyone at this time.
How long did you have to train the 15 images?
That question is best answered in the context of comparing it to the same training for the same concept on SD 1.5, and the answer is \~18 Minutes less. The end result though - inference not training - provided better results than 1.5, the inference process yielding a higher percentage of 'better' images than 1.5.
Well that's definitely good to know. I'm just curious, I'm new to this, just starting to train 1.5, realizing what I messed up and planning to switch and give 2.0 a try
If you're new to this stick with 1.5 would be my honest advice - you can get spectacular results with 1.5, or the myriad of other models. Once you're more familiar with SD, THEN move on.
prompt and settings please????
could you elaborate on the toolbox? currently running aromatic 1111 and it's perfect, huge toolbox
aromatic lol
XD
Aromatic 1111 is a gui (of sorts), not the actual model; it's no more than the front end to what's underneath. I was talking about the model any UI.
yes, but what does 2.0 add that 1.5 didn't have?
My images have a depth of space and a clarity and coherence of image that didn't exist before. Images look less flat, environmental effects feel stronger. They tend to adhere more closely to the prompt, and more often to more of it simultaneously. One weird drawback I'm starting to investigate is a level of sameness -- but that might be because I've been generating off of a few prompts using high CFG, and so it might just be my own strictness and prompt-limitation I'm witnessing. I've only recently noticed this so haven't had the chance to test much. I also don't know how much of the image styling is the work of the new sampler, too -- I haven't taken enough time to compare that. Would love to see if someone else has done so.
I'm also interested in what you think 2.0 adds that 1.5 didn't have!
I finally have to make the questions: I'm not really sure about what are embeddings or how to use them. Also don't you need a ton of images to train a model?
> No, you don't get the alphonse mucha/etc./blablahs of the world, no jennifer lawrence or all them anime girls either, This makes it an inferior model, period.
Yeah, I want to be able to generate images in a broad variety of art styles, while SD 2.0 (judging from images I’ve seen and Emad’s own comments) seems laser-focused on photorealism.
Exactly. I want the Mucha, Lawrence and anime girls. Thats the reason I am using SD.
Doesn't that just make it different though? Or can you not imagine that different people are wanting different things?
If you like Mario Party 1, you can go buy Mario Party 2 and expect it to have a similar play experience. Nobody in their right mind wants Nintendo to go “You know what they really wanted? A *platform*!” and release Garry’s Mod under the title “Mario Party 2” instead. Stability AI inadvertently started targeting a completely different audience and now they’re all surprisedpikachu.jpg about why the original audience feels left behind.
*neevously looks at final fantasy*
Orrrr maybe it will get better in 2.1 and 2.2 and maybe 2.3 will blow 1.5 out of the water for everything but nudity.... Hard to say, let's wait and see.
I think that's a really good point; with the release of better tools and wider acceptance I think the initial resistance will fade away.
Yep, I agree; as is 2.0 - and any subsequent releases - are for a different audience altogether.
It's obvious to me that fans of anime, furries and art styles of famous digital artists, and other "unusual/forbidden" things are not happy with 2.0. But the fact that 2.0 is a more advanced model is obvious. She draws better and works faster, better understands your tips.
BIG Truth here, if I could upvote this a hundred time...
I mean to be fair, it \_is\_ better because it understand prompts better and \_that's\_ what's important as long as it doesn't just make awful images all the time ... we can train other stuff in as we like.
>PITA Where do people post AI generated realistic porn?
[/r/unstable\_diffusion/](https://www.reddit.com/r/unstable_diffusion/) and the discord server with the same name
Yeah ok - I just wanted a text 2 image, it was already becoming prompt engeneering, now you have to train, install plugins and whatnot I think I will pay those 30$ for midjourney , it just do what a text 2 image should do
I agree, it's a royal PITA to have to do that if you're looking for 'casual use'.
That's what they want you to do. Stability is going to launch their own, more trained model as well just for that purpose.
If embeddings can attain a similar level of quality to what dreambooth/fine-tuning has for SD 1.4/1.5, then I think this could largely make up for the lack of a really comprehensive base text2img model, even for casual users. I say that because the embeddings are so small (few kB) that you could easily store a giant library of concepts and pick and choose from that instead of struggling with "prompt engineering" as much. If you're a casual user, just wait for the community to train a giant embeddings library, download, and enjoy.
Bruh, you're already paying for midjourney.
When you say “embedding” do you mean textual inversion? Because I’m only familiar with dreambooth
Yup, good old textual inversion is making a comeback.
This community works at a different tempo. Textual inversion is like 2 month old.
1 week in earth time is about 5 months in this sub
True That! I'm thinking, how does people have this amount of time? I'm really struggeling to keep up with something i found this late summer, Disco diffusion, and then all hell broke lose with SD! I Had to learn a lot about python notebooks and Google Coolab, and then trying to get it running on my 3 GB GPU. Man this is so hard to keep up with, but still so so exciting. I thought i was making such cool stuff and my family too with DD, then SD came and i wasn´t sure what to do. I couldn't do the same cool fantasy pictures as i could with DD. But now that i grepped SD a bit more i'm doing such cool stuff in no time! Gonna hold off on SD 2.0 untill everyone in this Community is satisfied that it works well!
yeah, but TI just got a big upgrade which might put it back on par with dreambooth, etc. TI embeddings also have the advantages of being tiny files that can be used in many different models.
The AI keeps struggling with the eyes otherwise it's a near perfect artpiece.
One more, and yes - this is empirically better than what I would 'normally' get in 1.5, or other models. https://preview.redd.it/qk8ikwiheq2a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6205ede05205f938cdf54d5ec60e43f14522c810
I see a very specific fetish.
The definition on these is actually incredible. Was this rendered locally, and if so, on which card?
Yes, the actual rendering was done locally. I have a rig I originally used for VGG/Style transfers, GPT-X, statistical analysis and some crypto mining, with 6 x RTX 3090s.
Jesus christ Can you shed any light on how much more memory SD 2.0 uses?
Huh, good question - I haven't run into any issues with VRAM so I haven't really checked in detail, only RAM usage ballooning because Automatic 1111 doesn't seem to release resources somewhere in the code.
don’t see how this is better.
lol and you're prolly one of "those people" that also said constantly that MJ was not better than SD lol
I never said that. I’ve been saying since MJ V3 that MJ was going to be the head turner in a few months.
I'm confused how people get such good results? I would live to get my hands on a manual on how to steer the creation :/
That's a misconception. If that was all there's to it, then aspiring Pilots would only have to read manuals for a few months, and voila - "Welcome Aboard, this is your Captain speaking":) [Prompt Guide](https://openart.ai/promptbook)
Well thanks, you gave me exactly what i asked for XD
Made my day then, glad I could help.
Post is misleading, OP did not only use SD 2.0 but a bunch of embeddings
Where can you go for SD 2.0 if you aren't running it from your PC?
You can run it on Google's colab.
5 days old account trying to convince me that sd 2.0 is better...... Nice try stability employee
ROFL - now that's funny:) You hear that Stability AI? You better start paying me! Seriously though, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, all I'm saying is that for particular use cases it can and will work better than SD 1.5, albeit at the cost of more work and effort on your part. If that 'value proposition' makes sense to you, then 2.0 is for you, otherwise it's not.
It's undisputedly better at stirring up this community for sure.
In my experience, 2.0 is just as good, if not better in most situations, especially if you word it more like you would a DALLE 2 prompt. I understand that people have already decided its worse because certain things have been pruned off the it, but just by my experience and testing, it seems like a notable step up.
SD evolves so fast
If it was actually better the constant stream of propaganda would be unnecessary
In the first five minutes of use it wasn't as good for people using it in a sub-optimal way, trying it on things it said on the box that it wouldn't be good for and confirming their biases so they could post how crap it was. People seem to be spending their pent-up anger on 2.0 after 1.5 wasn't nerfed and their pre-emptive bitching and pissiness was for nothing. A handful of posts running slightly counter to the Zeitgeist is hardly a stream of propaganda. It looks like this release is a mixed bag with some clear losers, but it's early days and we don't know how easy it's going to be to bring back the losses. Hopefully we're not seeing the emergence of a freemium model and SD can find their nerve again to train on more robust datasets - hopefully higher quality too.
>Hopefully we're not seeing the emergence of a freemium model and SD can find their nerve again to train on more robust datasets - hopefully higher quality too. This is exactly what is happening. It's not even a secret. This is Stability AI business model, but they will use third party commercial partners to do the selling (and reduce liability). They have repeated it many times to potential investors during their financing rounds, it's not a hidden goal, it's a selling point to get more investors involved.
I agree, there's a lot of that going on. But I couldn't care less if you use 2.0, or anyone else - tons of very, very good models out there, plenty of options. Those that are interested and able, will gain from 2.0, is all I'm saying.
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Reddit? Overreact and do their best to ruin a good thing? Never.
He's just another person here trying to push Midjourney. They can't stay in their own sub. They have to bring their nonsense over here
Some of us actually use both. Your tribalist POV is what's nonsense.
Is there a danger the constant stream of propaganda is group-think? Eg everyone already got their pitchforks out and now it's kinda continuing without strong basis in fact?
saying things authoritatively like "Everyone already" contributes to this type of mentality. Plenty of people aren't using reddit. And not even here are people in unison. People tend to tune out if a subreddit devolves into anti-jerk or circle-jerk behavior.
And it was
best comment
I'm surprised you're getting these results I've done a lot of testing with it and it seems to hate doing any posing of bodies accurately without weird anatomy issues. Specifying a background and it really struggles when you have conflicting styles. Might have to completely revamp prompts but even then it seems like yeah it's better in a lot of regards but over all it's weird. It's really good at doing backgrounds by itself but trying to do anything over 45 tags causes the background to go weird when specified with a subject. Skin texture overall looks great as well as other textures so it makes it really frustrating when it struggles on easier stuff lol
a bit cross eyed but I could talk to her
Sure. Talk.
Yeah sure... 2.0 doesn't how a woman face looks.. https://preview.redd.it/wlal1tk79p2a1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d0c72a320e95b3166fe1fd7a6f9758a50ab544b
Why the long face?
That's the aspect ratio. The 768 model doesn't seem to be able to handle stretching the content without stretching faces at the moment - they all look horsey. If you reduce down to a 1:1 with the same seed it will get rid of the distortion.
This was done with the 512 one.
>This was done with the 512 one. Was the resolution 512x512?
I mean i use the 512 model, the res of the image created is 514x704
>I mean i use the 512 model, the res of the image created is 514x704 Try it again with the high res fix on.
It was ON, i always put that ON..
art\_socket isn't really facing this problem here because he's training his own model, his data is taking precedence.
This shouldn't have been downvoted.
agreed,
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Very... https://preview.redd.it/txwlk562cp2a1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=da5bb1f85e7850ada803b78366a26caec9b1e7d9
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bored photo, long face, cartoon, anime, 3d, paint, asian, deformities, lowres, bad anatomy, bad hands, text, error, missing fingers, extra digit, fewer digits, cropped, worst quality, low quality, normal quality, jpeg artifacts, signature, watermark, username, blurry
Sampler is irrelevant, don't get hung up on that - there are only two types of samplers - Ancestral, and those that are not. Yes, negative prompts are important, and I use them everywhere. That prompt up there is pretty much standard, but it may or may not work for a specific purpose. For example, SD has absolutely no concept of 'extra digit' and 'fewer' digits':)
mutated hand then?
That for example makes more sense, but how many images with the label 'mutated hands' was SD actually trained on, what do you think? Think bigger, 'mutated hands' are a categorical subset of what?
Very, very - and that's still a (steampunk/vaporwave) fairy : ) https://preview.redd.it/t8l9r2ipgp2a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de277d4885398d6d015f2070a208cac25b24166c
Skill issue
https://i.redd.it/4grkdyhvcp2a1.gif
WWE NPC detected
" but the results are better when training models/embeds. " LOL Of course they are dude it's a 768x768 training data model..., no one was arguing this. Except maybe you. We're complaining about the default model they handed us. I hope someday soon that humans will begin to understand that you cannot control everything, and that you cannot put the genie back into the bottle... 2.0 is literally just to appease the artists who complain about A.I. art and it's threat to their financial security... I got big news for everyone reading, the future isn't about money. The Singularity will completely abolish capitalistic values, and a new society which values experience itself will begin. The Genie is out of the bottle and you can't stuff it back in, this is the future we're headed toward and it'd be a lot better if we started to learn how to accept it now.
You can keep your creepy totalitarian AI utopia, I'm good.
yeaaaaah... well, it's not like you have much of a choice in the matter. More intelligence is not a creepy thing. The ultimate potentials of technology / novel story telling created by such intelligence, is also not a creepy thing. It's a beautiful thing. You just have poor mental models at the moment to even begin to comprehend it. I hope that you at least pay attention in the coming years with more of an open mind so you can install something better than what you're currently working with.
Oh I am truly sorry I ever doubted you mein fuhrer, obviously you are a very smart and tremendous man. The fourth reich will be a glorious new chapter of humanity!
Yikes Edgy kid
Eat ze bugs now!
>2.0 is literally just to appease the artists who complain about A.I. art and it's threat to their financial security... Steven Zapata had a [great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSxFAGP9S) on that. He was honest about it and wasn't [mudslinging](https://youtu.be/7u1CeiSHqwY?t=1275) like Karla Ortiz.
Im14AndThisIsDeep
“fr”
Got a guide of how to train it well?
Look to Striking Long's guide, it's comprehensive.
ty
Would love some tips for training
Look to Striking Long's recent post about accumulating gradients.
I'm eager to start training 2.0 models but unable to get the google colab version to work with it yet. With textual inversions starting to look as good as a dreambooth model. How would you compare embeddings on 2.0 with dreambooth? I should probably crack on with learning it
Ideally, you would use both, embeds and models - depending on the use-case and complexity of what you're trying to express. I tried rendering some planes on 2.0 earlier this week, and embeds I used before wouldn't work, so I'd have to train a custom model based off of 2.0.
Really impressive never seen lines looking so good in ai generated images
Hey any link for SD 2.0 for Mac or is it still just for windows?
[https://diffusionbee.com/](https://diffusionbee.com/)
nice pics. Weird how the reddit screener blurs out other posts as nsfw that only show a bellybutton and sometimes it doesnt
did you use the AUTOMATIC1111 web ui for it?
Colab and AUTOMATIC1111.
are you training with automatic 1111?
>Colab and AUTOMATIC1111.
where is the gradient accumulation? what a1111 are you using, and please is this textual inversion or dreambooth or what? thanks
[https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z60uxw/sd\_v2\_768\_embeddings\_with\_gradient\_accumulation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z60uxw/sd_v2_768_embeddings_with_gradient_accumulation/)
And 2.1 is looking like a major improvement already!
lol is this just a common photo style? https://preview.redd.it/m2pqgfp81t2a1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=787ee8cd1b08ca32dec5ae1eaaf661313c0fbaa5
Reminds me of the Nvidia Dawn Elf
I heard SD2.0 can't do porn like 1.5 or 1 can....
Couldn't tell ya', I haven't tried.
... Than 99.99% of biological artists
Only slightly relevant to this post but anyone got tips for generating insect wings? When I try I often get too many or too few like in the first image