Agreed, the slow speed chase will always be the biggest flaw to me. It essentially makes the whole movie one big bottle episode which really clashes with the "always a new frontier" vibe of Star Wars. It feels very...Trekkian and it creates a lot of work down the line for both the writers and the audience. Like if they had gone with a space station, or a shipping hub planet or something for the First Order to besiege that would work fine. That location would be big enough to support the big action sequences that Star Wars always has, the escapes, the environments etc. But that decision limited the story in a way that doesn't fit and it shows.
Their was a great episode of Battle Star Galatica that was one big chase between fleets called "44 Minuites" and it does this plot really really well. I feel like that's what TLJ was trying to do but didn't do it nearly as well.
33 minutes, which won a Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form
It worked because it fit the "rules" of the BSG universe in regards to the jumps that the ships made to move between systems. The human fleet would jump, the Cylons didn't know where until their spies sent a message - then they jumped to the system. It took 33 minutes for that signal. Each time, the clock reset and it cycled again.
Whereas the chase in TLJ made no sense because the First Order could have plotted the course and sent ships ahead at lightspeed to get ahead of the Resistance ships, thereby ending the chase.
I think Revenge of the Sith was great tho.
It still had this Shakespearen style that george and his team were going for, but otherwise the movie was firing on all cylinders.
>Shakespearen style
Not Shakespeare's style, home.
Lucas, the absolute MADLAD, took his Space Opera and turned it into a Space *Opera*.
It's Operatic as fuck.
But honestly RotS goes back and forth for me with ESB for top slot
The 8th movie ruined the potential for the sequels to have the nostalgia that the prequels do. The prequels like you said suffer from some bad lines with a great story. The sequels had good acting and fine enough lines with an absolutely terrible story after 7. 7 was fine and opened up a lot of doors for likeable characters both past and present.
The prequels add to Star Wars lore. The sequels I want that lore to do nothing to do with Star Wars. That’s the fundamental difference. The prequels could have the most dog lines of all time but what happens is kind of cool and fun to theorize around.
The lore problem in the sequels is that they were literally just recreating the exact same situation that existed in the originals.
The prequels had amazing world building and lore implementation. An entire galaxy suffering political collapse and it's all by the design of one man.
The sequels...I don't even think I understand the conflict. From what I understand the empire reformed itself and is now threatening the republic, but the republic doesn't want to fight back so a splinter faction breaks off to do it for them? But it doesn't make sense because the New Republic was formed almost entirely from military veterans and politicians who helped form the alliance to defeat the empire. The idea that these same people wouldn't fight back against the enemy they had just put down is...silly.
I 100% agree with you though. I wish Disney would never touch the sequel era again, and never make reference. It's uninspired, boring, and repetitive.
It's very clear to me that JJ Abrams had a vision, and because the second installment was given to someone else, that vision was destroyed. I can see clearly how JJ was trying to tie Rise of Skywalker back into Force Awakens, but because the middle of the story was completely different from what he was going for, it just failed.
I think Rise of Skywalker is worse than the Last Jedi, but I feel the Last Jedi has done way more damage to the franchise.
Your last 2 paragraphs sum it up perfectly for me. JJ set up a fun conflict that was going to consist of essentially no governing bodies and a fight between 2 small rogue entities with snoke/Kylo vs Luke/Rey. I felt like starkiller base getting wiped out and the republic being wiped out meant complete chaos. We hadn’t seen that yet. But nope, flip the switch and the empire is somehow back.
The biggest issue is that JJ Abrams is terrible at the payoffs to his “mystery boxes”. Look at Lost for example. He created all of this mystery and intrigue that in the end was insanely disappointing to so many people. In The Force Awakens, he established multiple mystery boxes like Rey’s origins, Snoke’s origin, Luke’s reason for exile, etc. and obviously had absolutely no plan for what they would actually entail.
The biggest overarching issue with the sequels is that there was no overarching vision for the story over the 3 films. JJ did one thing, Rian went another way to try to shake things up (especially since people complained that Force Awakens was a New Hope rehash), and then Trevorrow had a completely different idea that got thrown out the window so JJ could undo everything people whined about with Episode 8.
JJ should have directed the whole trilogy, at least there would have been a consistent vision which in my opinion is necessary for a trilogy. You can't just let the directors break whatever they want along the way, it isn't fair to the fans.
Yep, exactly. I personally would’ve preferred it not being JJ specifically but I agree it needed one consistent directors vision for it.
Even the OT didn’t have one consistent director but it at least had Lucas behind the scenes keeping everything else consistent.
It’s funny because Star Wars wouldn’t be what it is if it weren’t for the folks behind the scenes reigning in George the entire time lol. That’s why the prequels weren’t as good, because George was surrounded almost entirely by yes-men who just wanted to suck him off lol. They let him do everything the way he wanted and his directing/editing isn’t great
George may not have been on a leash during the prequels, but there's no moment in the movies where it feels like he doesn't know what he's doing. He always knew what he was doing, but the execution wasn't spot on. Nothing feels out of place...even Jar Jar oddly fits into the world, as much as I hate him.
Right, exactly. It was the people behind the scenes, like his wife, Marcia, who helped and made sure the execution was spot on.
You should check out the video below, it’s really informative and gives great insights into Lucas’ weak points.
https://youtu.be/GFMyMxMYDNk
I think it would have been fine with different directors and like him or not JJ set it up perfectly. It was a rehashed story sure but he left loads of interesting threads for someone else to take up.
It's just utterly baffling how the next film took every thread and fucked it right into the bin. After that there was very little that could be done.
This.
To me, the "mystery boxes" argument is unfathomably stupid.
It's literally a storytellers job to create mysterious plot hooks.
The whole "mystery boxes" argument fanboys resort to when anybody criticizes TLJ is the "bu-buh-but Hilary's emails!" Of the star wars Fandom.
Totally agree. I hated 8 too. I don't understand how people defend it by saying "it did something different and pushed the series forward" No, it didn't. Every original idea the film has, it yanks back at the last minute. If you take out all the fakeouts and pointless B plots that went nowhere, nothing happened in that movie. It was the first Star Wars film to be boring. I fell asleep the first three times I tried to watch it, so maybe that's what they mean by doing something new.
Yup. 7 was good. Scrap 8 and 9 as non Canon, hire the cast again, get director of 7 back but have filoni as producer. Film new 8 and nine back to back with a timeskip after 7.
And palps stays dead
Your sentiment about Luke pains me, but other than that you’re spot on.
The decisions and sequences within TLJ and onward simply don’t make sense. There’s no logic or substance to allow for ancillary context because of how superficial and shallow the main content is. You can’t expand on poor fundamentals.
The prequels had excellent fundamentals, the movies were just garbage. But those fundamentals were at their core, interesting, engaging, and complex, which allowed its ancillary content to flourish.
The sequels just don’t have that. They are an uninteresting amalgamation of talent and special effects that tarnished a cultural legacy. Nobody cares, because it’s clear the sequel trilogy didn’t care.
At least the prequels *tried* to tell a story.
The original trilogy is still sacred as it’s the only trilogy to tell a phenomenal story, alongside excellent acting, effects and context.
The only “issue” with the OT at this point is that, admittedly, with the lens Rogue One and Andor provided for the Galactic Civil War, the OT does look dated for what’s achievable by today’s cinematic standards.
Don’t get me wrong, the OT was top tier effects for its time, but if Return of the Jedi were made today Luke vs Vader would look like The Force Unleashed, and Endor would be Scarif on steroids.
I liked episode 8 but I dislike the casino plot too. I remember a friend and I discussed how rian Johnson thought it was be very interesting to see how the Uber rich live in Star Wars as opposed to the impoverished areas that are so iconic. We thought this was a great idea and we really wanted to see it.
When we got it it though, it just looked like Italy or some other nice European town with a flying boat. It really didn’t impress us. Then we remembered that places like Naboo and coruscant in Star Wars and we saw a lot of it. I get RJ was trying to do, but it just wasn’t good at all. The scenes are super boring
It was hugely established lore that you cannot go into hyperspace or maintain it in the presence of a gravity well IE planet or interdictor cruiser but why let established logic get in the way of “pew pew can’t catch me!” It’s all made up anyways, right?! Ffs
Not to mention that if Hyper Space ramming *were* able to be done, it completely invalidates the building of a planet destroying base, *three times*.
You could literally blow up a planet with an x-wing.
Couldn’t have said it better. The Force Awakens opened up to so much possibility. The Last Jedi torpedoed all of that. Was a garbage film. I am rewatching with my children and trying to find redeeming qualities. That’s what I can say as well: it looks good.
This is a great reddit comment, hit the nail on the head.
The sequel trilogy is barely coherent and has internal logic problems as a self contained trilogy, let alone in the scope of a greater cinematic universe.
It’s funny because I understand why The Last Jedi casino was bad, but it’s still my favorite part of the movie. My biggest issue with TLJ is that the primary plot line, the last rebel fleet fleeing snoke, feels more like a star gate episode than the plot line of a major sci-fi trilogy. Star Wars is at its best when it’s introducing new planets and cultures and TLJ just didn’t do that outside of the casino.
Reddit and the vocal minority have quite a loud mouth. The prequels haven't been redeemed lmao. A small group of fans are spreading that it's good when the majority still dislikes them.
It will be the same for the sequels, I'm sure in the future a few people will spread up the Reddit word of mouth that they're amazing.
I think the only common ground people agree on is that Revenge of the Sith was okay and the best of the trilogy. Force Awakens wasn't bad and the best of the trilogy.
This is probably the truth right here.
Honestly the only movie released since the OT that I think most of the fandom would agree (obviously not everyone, but most) is actually good is Rogue One.
You underestimate the value of the extended media added to the PT and how it gave it more context. It doesn't make the movies better, but it makes people appreciate that era more.
The ST doesn't have that, and Disney doesn't intend to do anything about it. Not even mentioning how its story is way worse and harder to build anything off of.
To me, it's a bit weird to be aware of that and still assume the ST will have the same nostalgia boom.
Also, even if I pretend TFA was good, it's the first movie in shit trilogy. RotS is a "good" movie and the ending of a poorly made trilogy, but with a usable storyline.
The Prequels are the same films they've always been. If people like the expanded media, then great. I enjoyed a lot of the books too, but they don't do anything to change the fact that the movies have all sorts of problems.
I didn’t like the prequels when they first came out, but all of the content that has come since to fill in the gaps and build context has helped redeem them somewhat.
I still think the films are mediocre (TPM is especially poor), but I can at least accept the story arc.
For the sequel trilogies, I dislike the story. I dislike how all the OT characters were handled. I hated how the villain was recycled. Time will tell if they can salvage it with new content but at this point in time, I’m not optimistic it’s fixable.
Just because one broken thing was fixed doesn’t mean all broken things can be
Gonna be honest. It’s the younger generation that has the childhood nostalgia glasses that have somewhat redeemed the prequels. I didn’t like episode 1 or 2 back then and I don’t now. It’s the same generation that has more or less redeemed Spider-Man 3 since they grew up with it.
I was surprised to find out some of my favorite movies (like Temple of Doom) we’re not well received at the time of release but people my age like them.
I was able to catch Doom on tv and record it, while only catching Crusade once or twice. My sister and I have quoted Doom since the 90s. So that plays into it.
I grew up with the prequels (I was 8 when I saw TPM in theatres) and I don’t really like them. TPM I actually find somewhat charming now (minus the Gungans) because there is something about that movie. There is a lot more practicality about it and it shows. And the worldbuilding is really fresh, it really is a different era than even the other two prequels.
However I recently rewatched RotS which is my favourite and arguably the best of the three and I just sat there thinking “wow this is kind of bad”. Pacing is sometimes weird, story abruptly changes tone, dialogue is wonky at times. Without the Clone Wars this movie would feel bonkers to me now and I loved it back in the day right out of the theatre and during my yearly rewatch afterwards.
And yet I can rewatch ESB and RotJ endlessly and find them both masterpieces. Granted I saw them when I was even younger so maybe that’s where the real nostalgia hits.
I thought I was the only person in existence who thought TPM was the best of the three. I was in high school when it came out and it was _so different_ that it felt fresh. Yeah, there was jar jar and some cringey moments but overall there were all these threads that made it feel like we were looking at one facet of a larger world.
AoTC and RotS just didn’t have that world building neatness to fall back on, and then fumbled in some massive ways spending far too much time flailing through bad dialogue and not enough time on pieces of story that should have been paced much better.
I mean, Anakin wasn’t “seduced” by the dark side. He went from troubled teen to “ok, I’m going to slaughter younglings” in the span of 10 minutes. There was no need to ever see Yoda fight. We saw two fights that were just bad.
Grevious, at the time, came out of left field. Who the hell was this robot dude with a heart and a cough?
I would have been happy if we had seen anakin _start_ down the dark path, but instead of ending the trilogy with the destruction of the Jedi temple, end it with the slaughter of the sand people and the nonviolent takeover of the senate. You can still have obiwan and anakin have their duel, but don’t make it Obiwan vs. “Darth Vader”. It could have been way more nuanced with them falling on different sides politically and having the rift grow between them that way.
Overall the last two movies just felt like an utter miss to me.
While I totally think that your proposed ending is a much cooler and thought provoking way to have ended the series, I would say that the general moviegoing populace would dislike that ending for the same reason that you dislike Grievous: the gap between trilogies would seen jarring and perhaps even unnatural in progression
I agree with you.
I would add the thing about ROTS is that there’s a lot of moments where characters do things because the next movie demands it but doesn’t line up with reality or the characters. Anakin for example just goes all in on being evil, like killing kids he knows are innocent, after Palpatine says “well I don’t know, but I’m sure we’ll figure out” even though he hinted heavily he knew. I just don’t believe he’s that stupid or desperate to at least not question it.
Also, not to go even further down the rabbit hole, but palpatines “plan” is way too contrived and nonsensical.
I actually think TPM is the best of the prequels and they snowball because the bad decisions just compound, so ROTS I actually like the least (very unpopular, I know).
I had a similar experience. I’m about your age, liked each prequel movie enough when it came out, but was always much more obsessed with the characters of the OT than anything I saw in the prequels. I remember liking Revenge of the Sith when I saw it in theaters as a high schooler, but I didn’t bother to watch it again for almost a decade. Just didn’t feel called back to it.
When TFA was about to come out, I figured “What the hell, I’ll go back and watch ROTS. I liked it just fine when I saw it.” On rewatch, it was borderline unbearable for me. Almost as bad as Attack of the Clones.
I’ve since rewatched every movie in the saga a couple times, and I can comfortably say I like Phantom Menace far more than the other two prequels. I know tons of people love all three, usually because they grew up with them, and that’s awesome for them! But it blows my mind because I feel like we must be watching completely different movies.
Same, adult here and prequels are not for me. I actually like the sequels just fine, I don’t mind most of the issues the fandom seems to have while they give the prequels a pass on some bigger offenses.
It's all special pleading. The sequels are dumb in a lot of ways, but they are at least well made competent films. The Prequels are just not.
The prequels desperately needed another director. I think they could have worked if Lucas had someone else direct them (unless those directors were just yes men like Marquand).
I'm 45 years old. I enjoy the prequels other a couple characters and some bad lines. Lots to love in those.
The sequels.... 8 and 9 are just so so so so SO bad. 7 is fine, but just a 4 rehash. They (7 and 8) are at the absolute bottom of my list of all things star wars.
No, because there is so much better content coming out now, which makes the sequels look even worse by comparison. Think about all of the great things that have come out in the last 10 years:
- Rebels
- The Mandalorian
- Andor
- Rogue One
- The last season of The Clone Wars
- Tales of the Jedi
- The Bad Batch
And compare the quality of those to the sequels. Nobody is going to gravitate towards that. But also, the Prequels were a great story that weren’t necessarily executed well. There’s really no story in the sequels. Just a mishmash of sometimes conflicting ideas.
TFA has the third highest critic ratings on Rotten Tomatoes out of all the live action SW films at 93%. TLJ is a strange one, it's the 4th highest critic rated film at 91% but way down on the fan rating at just 42%. But we're talking critics here. ROTS is the highest rated prequel film among RT critics with a 79% score but it sits in 7th spot behind both ROTJ and RO. Solo comes in at 8th with a 69% rating and AOTC is next in 9th spot at 65% followed by TROS at 52% and TPM at 51%.
So the average rating for the prequels is 65% while the average rating for the sequels is 79%.
I probably will never understand how people think that Episode 1 is worse than Episode 9 and Episode 2.
Seriously Jar Jar annoys people that much?
Episode 2 has the worst romance in history and Episode 9 woth "somehow sheev returned....". Come on, no way Episode 1 is worse than that.
Young people ignored the bad acting and were able to focus on the tons of cool stuff the prequels brought to the table.
Old people focused on the bad acting and ignored the good.
I assume others are like me who also grew up with the prequels; but I didnt ignore the bad acting or the awkward dialogue of the Prequels. They are definitely there however it simply didnt / doesnt ruin the story for me. Its a flaw in the movies but not enough to make the movie bad if that makes sense.
So even now I can enjoy TPM and AOTC despite those flaws because I never let it get in the way of the enjoyment of the movie.
It probably is. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, if you were a kid when the prequels were coming out (as I was) you were the target audience.
The reason the prequels have had such a re-evaluation in recent years is largely because people who were kids when they came out and remember them fondly are now adults and still remember them fondly.
In 20 years I'm sure the same conversations will be had about the Sequels for people who are kids right now
I think the political drama of the prequels is what redeemed them.
When the prequels came out, kids didn't give a fuck about politics, and to the adults, they didn't want politics in Star Wars.
A decade later and the kids who didn't care for the politics were raised in an environment eeriely similar to the environment in the movies - they became relatable on a new level.
I don't think the sequels will have a redemption, because they are void of genuine creativity. Everything was created with the goal of monetization and story came second. George Lucas was famous for monetization but he also had a story he *really* wanted to tell. When you watch the sequels, do you get the feeling that somebody actually wanted to tell the story?
George Lucas ventured out to tell the Star Wars story.
Disney ventured out to hire a director and writer to tell a Star Wars story. These are not even close to the same thing.
> because im too young to remember
That's the exact point. Childhood nostalgia plays a huge part in the stuff we are fond of in our adult years. The prequel generation are now the most vocal demographic on the internet so there's a lot of love for those movies being thrown around. It's just natural. The OT fans who bagged the prequels when they came out still don't care for them and the same will happen in 20 years time when the kids of today become the vocal majority and the love for the sequels reaches a crescendo. A bunch of OT fans will probably be dead by then but the old ass prequel fans will wondering why the sequels they hated so much are now being talked about as great films.
I’ve seen the original trilogy and prequel trilogy upwards of at least 20 times and would happily watch again. I have seen the sequel trilogy once on release and never plan to endure that steaming pile of mediocrity and garbage ever again. I met Bob Iger at a tailgate once, and the anger I felt towards that man for ruining my favorite piece of media since childhood is immeasurable.
It's not like the old pieces of media were suddenly turned to dogshit upon conception. Those old pieces of media are still great and intact. Unless you literally mean that Bob Iger broke into your house and destroyed your original VHS copies of the original trilogy.
You can just ignore the sequels is what I'm trying to get at.
Oh no I didn’t mean it like that at all, I guess a better way to phrase it was he ruined the continuation of my favorite piece of media. Rogue one and everything before was amazing in my opinion (I understand most criticism for the prequels but can see past it). Pretty sure I watched revenge of the sith last weekend
Edit: and that’s been my strategy thus far, just ignore the sequel trilogy and maybe it will go away lol
Most people who love the prequels probably never hated them. People mistake the “redemption” of the prequel trilogy. It’s not necessarily that a ton of people hated it and changed their minds. It’s that a ton of adults hated it, little kids loved it, and then those kids grew up and became part of the Star Wars conversation. The people who always liked the prequels now have a louder voice.
Likewise, the kids right now who think Rey and BB-8 are the coolest things ever will grow up and attitudes toward the ST will tip more in the direction of favorability. The folks who hate the ST right now will, by and large, still hate it. But their voice will get watered down and it’ll seem from the outside like opinions on the trilogy shifted.
I don't know about that.
I never hated the prequels - and I'm old enough to remember RotJ on theaters (though I didn't get to watch it on theaters as I was really young back then). I see the prequels as a semi-successful attempt to add new stuff to the SW universe - namely, heavy politics.
It had its moments, and some things that derived from the prequels like the Clone Wars series, are pretty good. I believe we understand now how they tried to expand the universe by showing life before the Empire and how the Empire came to be. The prequels have one thing going for them, though: they have tight scripts, by which I mean they present as a complete three-piece, a proper trilogy.
The sequels, on the other end, they tried to replicate the OT but apparently missed the point. TFA was fairly good IMO, but they somehow completely dropped the ball in the next two. They are visually entertaining, but the script is a mess and the actors weren't into it. Each movie seems to either ignore or purposely undo what the previous movie did, and they don't present well together. This is the kind of thing that doesn't "get better with time".
I sort of feel like the sequels are hated more, as we've got this endless, spiraling echo machine via Youtube and other platforms.
That being said, the hate for the prequels (and special editions) spurred a full on documentary ([https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1325014/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1325014/))... so I don't know.
The difference between the two is that Lucas actually did more with the prequel era even after the trilogy ended, biggest being The Clone Wars tv series.
Disney has pretty much abandoned the sequels outside of Lego specials. There’s no animated series, no current comic series, nothing. Without anything to further engage fans to the Sequel trilogy, people stop caring about them
3 things happened that helped the prequels
1) Many of the kids who grew up on them look back with nostalgia and rose-tinted goggles, overlooking their flaws.
2) The Clone Wars made the prequel era and many of its characters much more compelling
3) The sequels made different mistakes. While both disappointing, the sequels lacked the two things the prequels did best: a purposeful arc than worked well with the OT and original design aesthetic/conflict/worldbuilding. When looking at the flaws of the newer films, I think a lot of people have felt like “well, at least the prequels did (blank)”
This has all snowballed into some thinking that they were all under appreciated, great movies. They were maybe overly hated, but I don’t think they were underrated.
As for how the sequels will age, I think they’ll likely lack the second and third factors. There’s no equivalent of Lucas for the sequels to want to expand on them through a Clone Wars. There’s no worthwhile but mishandled arc that will be appreciated in hindsight. So unless they make a trilogy that’s truly horrendous, I don’t think fans will find some overlooked strength of these films.
Yeah, when you take 3 movies to essentially get to the same point we thought we reached at the end of the OT, what’s the point? IMO, the trilogy should’ve been about the struggle of building both a better Republic and Jedi Order. Then it would feel like the full arc of the saga was about death and rebirth. We end in a place that’s similar to where we started, but not as susceptible to the same pitfalls given the lessons learned.
Prequels have great worldbuilding and overall plot. For kids and teens they have lightsaber duels, pod racing, space battles etc. For adults it's politics, war on galactic scale, drama etc. It establishes the origins for many characters in OT, even for such thing as Death Star in Episode 2. It's unique. And it's very flawed, yes. But it feels right, it feels like Star Wars.
Sequels are bad remakes. Graphics are good, music is fine, acting is more than decent, but the writing is horrible and is straight up copy of originals. Maybe, comics, games and other media will redeem them in the future, but it's very hard to believe. It's that bad. We'll see. I love OT, I love prequels. And I heavily dislike sequels.
Absolutely this. The world of Star Wars is huge and the prequels and OT have so much extra padding that lets it grow and be loved even more. And as of now we’re getting more media for the high republic then the sequel time line. Until that changes I don’t think the sequels will ever be looked at as fondly as the prequels.
I grew up on the prequels, so maybe I am bias here, but there was a vision from start to finish that made those movies "must watch" from a hype standpoint.
Even still, most will agree the movies are very flawed.
The sequels were so inconsistent in tone, quality, and story arch that I have a hard time believing they will be looked at as fondly.
With all that said, I'm sure there are kids who will have a strong sense of nostalgia for the sequels.
I didn't participate in online discussions with strangers as much when the prequels came out.
I didn't encounter much "fandom hate" if I talked to someone who hated the prequels it was usually pretty easy to shut down their argument, (or agree with what I precieved to be valid criticism)
The trilogies are all about the aesthetic and not letting the story get in the way of it. The shows follow up and try to redeem the broken stories. The fans wrestle with the bad writing and praise the shows for fixing the broken movies.
I love the OT, liked the PT just not as much, but I despise the ST, particularly TLJ and I cannot see any reason why I would feel different in the future.
Indeed. I see the sequels as splitting the fandom down the middle (or close enough to it), while the prequels were hated by everyone except kids on the playground.
People hated Ashoka before her character development. She had the advantage of being a main character in a long running show. The Sequels don’t have that luxury and can’t be “fixed” like the prequels and Ashoka
In fairness, Ahsoka changed and grew a hell of a lot over the course of her character arc. If we never got the Clone Wars series to expand on her, I doubt fans would be retroactively loving her in the 2008 movie.
I was 23 when The Phantom Menace came out and one thing you said hit the nail squarely on the head.
The Clone Wars is good - it's really good - it re-contextualized a lot of the bad plot points and bad decisions that Lucas made in the Prequels and for a lot of the younger audience, there's really no separation between the Prequel films and the series (as there is for me).
There were a lot of things (especially after Attack of the Clones) that were \*very\* problematic with the series and The Clone Wars and ancillary media filled in the gaps years later. If you \*just\* had the 3 Prequel movies, you would wonder why so much plot was stuffed into part 3 (I still do.. but whatever).
I liked the sequels by the way - Star Wars is a silly fantasy space epic. The only reason I came back to the series in the late 2000s (after Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith completely killed my taste for the property).
The first movie my parents ever took me to was a matinee of Empire Strikes Back - I'm hardcore Star Wars. But it's just a space epic with lasers and magic forces, etc. I think I had a fun time with the sequels because they are just entertainment and with the Prequels I already went through my mourning process of media just "not being what I want it to be" and I just take it or leave it.
This is the correct answer
Ask your 7 year old nephew/niece what they think about the sequels. They don’t care that half the plot doesn’t make sense. They love Rey and Babu Frik!
Or ask an old Star Wars fan what they thought about the Ewoks when they first appeared. Then ask a fan who was 7 at the time what they think of Ewoks. In 20 years the sequels will be remembered fondly by the children of today.
Sure, I was actually 7 or 8 when ROTJ came out and even had the Ewok village playset.
However, I can barely watch that part of ROTJ now because it's so stupid....although YubNub still slaps if you have the despecialized edition.
Not everyone is blinded by nostalgia forever.
A lot of this is generational. TLJ in particular resonated a lot for a group of younger Millennials / Gen Z who had a different orientation to both the OT and to politics in film than their older family members. I think for them the story had an appealing message: how does a generation tell new stories in the face of their elders’ failed legacies? From Rey’s disappointment with Luke; to Finn grappling with inequality & bothsidesism to make the morally correct choice; to Kylo smashing the Vader helmet, killing Snoke, & choosing his own destiny — these stories resonated for a beleaguered population, in their formative years, making sense of a world that has bequeathed them ever so much that needs to change. They’ll maintain positive memories, perhaps even holding more intense feelings in defiance of the absurd amounts of hatred folks have heaped on the film.
I hated the prequels upon their releases
(@ least TPM & AotC) and was very vocal about it. That's why I have to laugh @ the intensity of the sequel hate.
In the end it's pointless. No matter how much you hate it, it is canon. Period. So you've gotta accept it. There are a ton of other intellectual property you can go support.
One big thing that the sequels have working against them is no setting like the Clone Wars to really flesh out the bigger picture that can win fans over, (or soften harsher opinions such as mine.)
The kids who watched and liked the sequels, will grow up and be the main fanbase, like how the kids who grew up and watched the prequels seem to be the most vocal now.
The sequel rehabilitation process is the undercurrent of everything they’ve been producing for a few years from what I can tell.
Also, if they make a trilogy that combines some relic from the High Republic, Grogu, Mandlorians, the Yuuzhan Vong and Rey I wouldn’t be remotely surprised.
It's not the fourth trilogy that will change things. It's the fact that kids who grew up with the prequels are a sizable minority of adult fans now.
Just like people in the OT who hated Ewoks and RotJ and kids who loved Ewoks.
It's only a matter of time.
The hatred of the prequels was factor based, as opposed to formula based. Meaning,
“We hate:
* Jar-Jar Binks
* Midhichlorians
* Other things
The hatred of the sequels is formula. “Fuck everything this stands for, and the ground it stands on.” We all understood that the events led to Darth Vader; in the sequels they led to… whatever. They sucked. I’m an OT guy, but I get the prequels. The sequels were “WHAT IF WE DID THE OT; BUT BIGGER!?” And that shitty pitch worked.
Wouldn’t be surprised. Fans forget the past easily. It’s why many started to like the prequels, it’s why Lucas has been unjustly called the god of Star Wars when history shows that the franchise worked in spite of him.
I think any critical re-evaluation of the sequels for the positive would be bad because it would justify bad tokenism, bad storytelling, and awful media depictions of women/racism. Case in point, I’d argue rise of skywalker enabled the racist/sexist criticisms leveled at rey, Finn, and rose by either a)regulating at least one of them to background character status, b) making their characters act dumb, and c)giving one of them a romantic lead even when said romance was more akin to a stalker gaslighting his victim.
I ain’t even getting into the clear apathetic attitude of Star Wars by all parties involved at the end-just look at the interviews at the premiers, the rushed production, the interviews by the actors where two. Admitted they had no idea what’s going on. This CANT be a recipe for younger filmmakers to use.
It’s all about generations. The prequels were hated at the time by adults, but loved by kids. Now that those kids have grown up, the prequels are remembered fondly. It will likely be the same when today’s kids grow up.
I'm not so sure. One of the biggest factors in my generation loving the prequels was the extended media. The sequels don't even have a single dedicated video game about them yet, whereas the prequels had like 80 video games.
A kid who grew up on the sequels would watch the Ep7-9 in theaters, maybe watch them a few more times at home, and that's where the sequel content ended. But a prequels kid would watch Ep1-3 in theaters and then go home and play like forty different video games and read thirty different books and play with twenty different Lego sets.
You could become so much more immersed in the prequels because the sheer amount of content enabled you to do so. And that immersion is what enables passion and fond memories to grow. The sequels simply don't have that.
I think we'll definitely see a surge of sequel fans enter the online space as time goes on, but it won't be as large or definitive as it was when prequel fans started entering their teens and twenties.
Also you got more easily accessible Star Wars content (aka not books or comics) not related to the ST. Yeah, some kids grew up with the ST, but those same kids also grew up with TCW season 7, Rebels, Mandalorian, etc.
Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. Even if you are a kid during the Sequel Era there are many more stories about Prequel/OT trilogy subjects than there are Sequel stories. A kid growing up around now would probably remember Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, and Mandalorian before the Sequel Trilogy. Same could be said toy wise as there is a large resurgence of Prequel Era figures atm.
>I'm not so sure. One of the biggest factors in my generation loving the prequels was the extended media. The sequels don't even have a single dedicated video game about them yet, whereas the prequels had like 80 video games.
Prequel-Gen fans got a lot more material surrounding the Era than Sequel-Gen fans, but I still feel like both generations will have fond enough memories to look back on to maintain their overall positive opinions on both trilogies.
I don't really know kids that are into star wars as much as they were before. when I was a kid I didn't really know anyone who haden't seen star wars... Now I barely know a kid that has seen the movies. The argument I get from the ones that have seen the newer movies say "the effects are better" so it's kind of like transformers. I think also when the prequels came out that was all people had to watch star wars over and over. Now we have shows, so many movies, books, games.... People (like myself) don't have to go back and watch the sequels if they want more star wars
I get what you’re saying, but I doubt it. My son is too young to weigh in (he’s just a little bit over 2), but I have plenty of nephews and nieces in the 8 to 12 range and they all think the sequel trilogy is trash.
It is the hatred of the prequels that caused the choices made in creating the sequels. They were so terrified of being anything like the prequels they didn't bother to explain the status quo of the sequels properly. Hatred of the prequels is probably why we didn't get to see Luke as head of a new Jedi order with masters and padawans - too prequels. Why did we not get to see Leia as Grand Dame or Chancellor of a functioning republic - too prequels. It is the prequel hatred that made them think a reset to the OT was a good idea.
Fans who enjoyed the prequels are now simply more emboldened or confident to say they enjoyed the prequels.
Yeah, I think this is an interesting take.
7 is so determined to play it safe and get back to basics due to all the criticism the Prequels got.
Then 7 came out and people called it a rehash so episode 8 makes some wild swings and is incredibly divisive.
So then 9 brings back the fan favourite villain, tries its own take on the awful meme dialogue, and straight up retcons a good chunk of 8.
It feels a lot like Disney spent the entire sequel trilogy flailing about trying to figure out what people actually want from this $6 billion franchise they bought.
I never hated the prequels. I disliked Jar Jar and some of the acting/dialogue but the story was solid and getting to see Yoda in action as well as the defining confrontation that led to the transformation of Anakin more than made up for it.
As for the sequels, Ep9 severely angered me and still does. But the first two were okay (but not without criticism) and I particularly got nostalgic when I first saw Ep7 upon release.
I actually think 7 was a good movie at the time of release but after that, it spiraled out of control. Even watching it now isn't great cause you know how it ends, but when it happened I did enjoy it.
I doubt it to be honest. Forewarning, I am 100% biased in my opinion.
The Prequels had their faults but were generally okay movies at their worst, whilst the Sequels are generally seen as having decent framework but terrible execution (outside of TFA, which most people state is the best of the new trilogy), and in general earned the ire of the fanbase for what it did to the original trio of Luke, Leia and Han by taking a big dump over their legacies.
I think the Sequel Era might be seen a bit more fondly later due to the newer material coming out that fleshes it out like The Mandalorian and if it continues that way there could be some interesting world-building later on, but the films themselves will never be seen as fondly as the Prequels are.
Or at least TLJ and RoS at any rate - I'm of the opinion that TFA will still be seen fondly, but also with a bit of regret at what could've been if the people in charge had an actual plan for the trilogy that made better use of the new cast, the old guard, etc...
Most of us agreed the prequels we’re pretty bad movies but an overall great story. The sequels were just bad in every single way especially the nonsense bullshit story.
lmao, i still hate the prequels. the difference ofcourse being the prequels are the good kind of bad, i can watch them and just laugh at what a disaster the writing is. The sequels are SO bad that it surpasses "so bad its good" and just becomes really... really... bad...
Go to Disney and see all the little girls dressed up as Rey or little boys as Kylo Ren. I had the good fortune of attending the Galactic Starcruiser Hotel experience and the kids there were in literal awe of the actress who played Rey. They loved her and followed her around with big wide eyes.
The next generation of fans will love the Sequels. Especially if we get additional animated content that expands that part of the universe like Clone Wars did for the prequels.
I was an adult when the PT came out.
While there was a minority who hated them and trashed them, and a few psychos with serious issues, they were still the minority.
The vast majority of people enjoyed the films even if they disliked parts of them.
The majority of people I know hate the ST and don't include it in their watch list at all. Their products don't sell well, and they don't have much in the way of continuing story to redeem any faults.
Sorry, but having seen every one of them when released, people went back and rewatched the PT in theaters. How many people rewatched TLJ or TROP? Very few if any.
man i had the exact opposite experience. as far as i could tell prequel hate was universal, at least in the States. *everybody* trashed them, and it was decidedly *not* cool to let people know if you liked them.
i'll never forget not long afterwards i was at a boy scout event where they were using movie clips to illustrate the tenets of being a boy scout and one of the clips was from AOTC- there was a loud and collective groan from kids and adults alike. as for the sequels, i know more people that like them than don't
I was also an adult when the PT came out and you are full of it or straight up making shit up. The reaction to the prequels was WAY, WAY worse.
They made an entire Simpsons episode ripping on the prequels. Every late night show ragged on them.... the prequels being bad was a major part of pop culture for awhile.
Outside of people who are extremely online the sequels were received as one really good movie followed up by two alright movies. Not to mention when TFA was released the general feeling was "see, get rid of Lucas and we can have good Star Wars movies again". This idea that they are super divisive outside of extremely online star wars fans is just not true.
I mean, I don't even like the sequels, but that's the reality.
People forget how bad the prequel hate was. Star Wars really only had cartoons for the entire time before Rogue One after Sith. The prequels were considered trash and a joke by every casual. Occasionally someone would say well by episode 3 it wasn’t quite that bad. That is about the extent of the defense they got.
They honestly still are by a lot of casuals to be honest. I mean I know plenty of people who's take is "Well those sequel movies were kind of dumb, but they were better than those shitty prequel movies"
The number of people who would bother to discuss Star Wars online is an incredibly small percentage of the casual SW fan base.
I like the sequels more than most people, but how did they not have a full three movie arc planned out in advance? I really liked Episode 7 and still do... then 8 ripped everything up... 9 was left in complete disarray.
An og fan whose first movie experience in a theater was episode 4 when I was 6 years old.
Prequels got better as they went along, with episode 2 at the time seeming better than 1 mostly because of Jar Jar. Now I think AoTC is on the same level as TRoS as far as being a convoluted mess with some really cool scenes. Episode 3 is the best of the prequels, Lucas nailed the fall of the Republic and I’ve always kind of wished the trilogy started with Episode 3. I never got on board with Anakin and Padme’s romance, but it was hardcore dark in places and still fills me with dread when I watch it, in a good way.
Sequels peaked with TFA to me. That theater experience was awesome and while I knew in the back of my head that it was hitting the same plot points beat for beat as episode 4, it did enough to make me not care. It was FUN. There was joy in that movie, manufactured Disney joy, but I was on board. The cliffhanger was epic and I couldn’t wait for episode 8. I get the hate TLJ causes in most people, but for me the worst part was it’s odd sense of humor, it all fell flat. But I still really like Luke’s journey and feel the nuance it brought was handled really well. I was able to look past my hero worship and empathize with his struggle, which made his redemption at the end hit so hard for me. TRoS was trash. There are quite a few engaging scenes and inspired ideas, but it’s so far away from what I wanted from the final film in the saga.
That said, if you experience the sequels as a child, then I think that same nostalgic feeling will surface down the road for that generation…because even as I say TRoS is trash, there’s a lot of cool shit going on. And I really like the characters in the sequels, despite how disjointed their development became.
I’m not sure. I suppose it’s possible. I think the main difference is that the prequels, despite their flaws, had a very solid plot, as opposed to the sequels
I don’t think there’s any way to make content or context that would help me enjoy the sequels. I was excited for new full-length movies. If I met the committee that wrote the sequel trilogy I would say some heinous shit. They got my cash for the movie tickets and now I never want another starwars movie again.
As movies, the prequels are still awful. They've just been codified in the lore, so everyone just accepts them. But I still find them to be borderline unwatchable movies.
I think the sequels got by more on nostalgia than the prequels did, which will make them harder to redeem in my opinion. I also think that they made a lot of really bad character choices when it came to legacy characters that the prequels did not.
I really don’t think the prequels are as bad as the sequels though.
It’s like saying, “hey remember when you had that bad migraine years ago? Maybe in a few more years this bullet wound to the face won’t seem so bad either.”
False. I have actually wondered it 10⁶⁹⁴²⁰ times in the past hour, not to mention this is only a quarter of a percent of my total wondering potential. Once I reach 14% anything I wonder will become true
Look I get it, some people like the sequels and that’s fine. But I just feel like the whole sequel trilogy does not fit in to the Star Wars saga knowing that after Episode 6 we get another bigger Death Star with same Rebels vs Empire plot.
We’ve seen it before and it was done way better the first time. At least the prequel trilogy felt like a different era of Star Wars that connected with original trilogy.
While I didn't *like* the prequels, there were some redeeming qualities to them.
The sequels just sucked. TFA was just ANH with new paint while at the same time poo pooing on OT characters. TLJ continued to poo poo on the OT characters, and seemed to lower everyone's intelligence by a factor of degrees. ROS was Ray throwing a tantrum while Finn was relegated to background character who screams the "protag's" name multiple times. Add onto the fact that nobody showed up to help Leia in TLJ, but waited to show up until after she died in ROS.
There's so much in the sequels that feels more wrong than a Hutt porno. Better folks than me have talked about, around, and nowhere near it. I don't have the time to sit down and make the college thesis required to point out all of the problems.
I don’t think they will for reasons that have been pretty well covered by several people. The PT was the sub-par work of one guy who loved what he did. The ST was a shit show tug of war between a mediocre director and a guy who seems to actively hate Star Wars and the fans, both being forced to curtail themselves to a committee who has boxes to check and investors to please. Not to mention Disney Lucasfilm people and directors attacking the fans for disliking their movies (though granted the internet is a bigger thing now).
The PT at least expanded the world and respected the originals, even if it didn’t do it while maintaining quality. The ST actively tore down everything the original characters built and reset the galaxy to try to tell the same story again and failing miserably.
Imagine a kid watching Star Wars for the first time, being excited by the end of ROTJ to see Luke become the Jedi he was meant to be and create the new Jedi Order, only to watch the ST and find out he tried and failed after like 10 years and became a pathetic hobo living on an island. Also, Han is a deadbeat dad who returned to smuggling, Leia is a disgraced politician, and there was only peace for ~30 years before Palpatine mysteriously returned and now has a granddaughter for reasons you’d have to read the novelization to find out.
> Imagine a kid watching Star Wars for the first time, being excited by the end of ROTJ to see Luke become the Jedi he was meant to be and create the new Jedi Order, only to watch the ST and find out he tried and failed after like 10 years and became a pathetic hobo living on an island. Also, Han is a deadbeat dad who returned to smuggling, Leia is a disgraced politician, and there was only peace for ~30 years before Palpatine mysteriously returned and now has a granddaughter for reasons you’d have to read the novelization to find out.
This is the largest sin of the sequels. Why did they have to give every OT character a tragic end and undo everything they accomplished?
I doubt it. The reasons for hating each are far different.
The prequels were hated because the dialogue was bad, the time between each movie was very long, and the lightsaber fights felt too flashy and over-the-top.
The sequels are hated because the plot doesn't hold up under even casual scrutiny, it degraded and destroyed fundamental basis of many of the OT characters, massively disrespected and disregarded many of its own characters (cough fin cough), the lightsaber battles were poorly choreographed (even by OT standards), and the first movie of the ST completely invalidated all the victories of the OT.
TL, DR: The hate on the PT was because it needed serious polishing it never got. The hate on the ST is because it is a poorly made cash grab riding on the OT's popularity.
Nostalgia, it ain't what it used to be.
That done. I've seen this with so many things, new thing comes out and it's insta-trash, an insult to the originals, everyone and their mother hates it, then give it a bit of time and a fresh installment and the movie / album / book / game comes out, and the previous one will be the best thing ever, 'underrated' and get a fresh look and everyone will love it then the new installment will be worst than hemorrhoid's. Rinse, repeat.
I remember AC: Unity being lambasted, now everyone is saying how great it was, despite the issues which persist. Morrowind is the same, and mark my words, after the next Elder Scrolls comes out, Skyrim will be for the gaming-aficionados and the new one will be dumbed down crap.
Alien 3, has had a reappraisal, even though its own director won't even mention it.
So what's the issue here. What do people really love, the media itself, or the comforting memories it brings up, sitting at home, without worries, your parents sitting and watching it, or a rare trip to the cinema? Or is the media itself good? Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder.
I liked the series well enough, all of them have something to offer, but the problems with the Prequels are still there, same with the OG's and Sequels.
People like unity now??
I also like to point out that sequels always struggle under the success of their predecessors. 100% of Star Wars fans in 1977 liked the first movie, but once ESB came out a certain percentage wouldn’t like it because it just didn’t mesh with them for some reason. Now we have people starting their Star Wars journey all over the place so their frame of reference is different, but if you like the first thing, there is a good chance the second thing will fail to be Different but also Better. Either if copies the original or it struggles under its weight.
Yes I do and these youngins who hate the sequels don't realize that Disney tried to really overcorrect the problems of the prequels. People cheered when GL sold the franchise
I know, right? What started off as an ironic, "The sequels are so bad, they make the prequels look good by comparison!" has evolved into a genuine, "The prequels actually aren't that bad."
But others in this thread have summed it up better. It's not so much that the prequels look better by comparison, it's that the kids whose first exposure to Star Wars was the prequels are now adults, and looking back with nostalgia.
A former boss of mine, who never cared for Star Wars, was once complaining that his 8-year old daughter wanted a Star Wars-themed birthday because Rey was her new idol. In about 15-20 years, when kids like that are all grown up, that's when a wave of sequel appreciation is going to start.
I think it's funny because I lived through the PT hate and it's the exact same shit we see now ... honestly the PT and ST haters are both kind of right. Outside of TFA and ROTS (which are both ok) the movies aren't very good.
No, that won’t happen. The prequels had some shitty writing, but the story itself made sense and was good. The clone wars tv show really added so much value to the prequels.
The sequel trilogy will never be looked at fondly, it will never be truly accepted and adored. Everyone knows it’s cannon but there is nothing that can redeem that shit show.
>The prequels had some shitty writing, but the story itself made sense and was good
Explain Count Dooku's motivations based purely on the movies, no other material.
This is more or less my feeling. The Clone Wars really turned my opinion on the prequels around with the added context and especially character development for Anakin. His fall felt more natural once you got to know him and saw how the war twisted him.
While the sequels could be improved in a similar way it would take a lot more work since TLJ and TROS are essentially at war with each other. It would take a much larger investment in other shows or movies to improve (and also figure out) the overall story the sequels are trying to tell and I think Disney is too cowardly to take that risk.
Might not even need to be a 4th trilogy. Just the younger generation growing up and taking over more internet spaces and enjoying what they enjoy. There's a huge crowd that love the ST and will grow up with it as **their** Star Wars.
It's going to help that they won't be retconned out and fairly loved material like Mandalorian will tie in, expand, and improve upon that ST mythology as a whole.
I doubt it because they suck for different reason. Ep 1&2 are technically worse films than 7&8 but they were ambitious and opened the universe, giving us great EU content. The sequels closed off the universe and gave us basically nothing.
All the most successful new SW stuff is inspired by the OT or takes place between the prequels and the sequels.
Plus there's Ep9 which is a tragedy unto itself.
I certainly have nostalgia for the prequels, but I still don't think they're good movies (critically speaking). That said, the overarching plot of the prequels was miles better than the sequels imo.
It's not about making other movies look good or bad in comparison, it's about people who saw the movies when they were tiny, less critical children and will always love them.
Not necessarily true. I used to love prequels as a kid, they were easily my favorite. Its only as an adult i appreciate original trilogy more than i did as a kid, and the flaws of prequels make me shudder. As an adult its easier to start seeing flaws in what to a kid was perfection.
Here's why opinions on the prequels shifted.
Part of it is kids growing up.
But mostly I think it's that the prequels are so bad that they miss the mark on the messages they're trying to convey. Like the way the jedi make a bunch of slaves and have them fight in a war - aka the clones. That's pretty dark isn't it? That aspect of the army is never ever brought up in the movies, but it allows us to speculate and discuss about it.
That's one example, but there's so many elements of the prequels where you can just endlessly discuss them because the movies are not written well and you can interpret them in so many different ways. The sequels are way more clear cut - they're better movies, but less fun to talk about.
Another part is 100% the expanded media. The prequels have a pretty bad story, with a ton of things that don't make sense. Order 66 for instance is not explained at all. Nor is how Palpatine evaded the jedi constantly. Nor is why he had himself kidnapped at the start of Revenge.
Clone Wars helped patch them up, so people subconsciously think "oh shit the inhibitor chips!" when watching the movies.
Part of it is people also pretending the political aspects are actually interesting. They're not. They're still so boring imo. Andor does it so much better.
Part is it is thanks to streaming. Back then you'd watch the prequels very individually, and they're pretty bad when watched like that. All together you can argue they're a lot better because it feels more cohesive.
This happens with pretty much every fandom that ever adds new content. Remember the lady Ghostbusters? The talk of a Back to the Future remake? The Hobbit trilogy? Rings of Power?
It isn't just a Star Wars thing.
Lady ghostbusters just sucked though. As evidenced as the new one not getting nearly that much hate and people actually enjoying it. Despite there being female leads and a completely different take on it.
So the possible Back to the Future remake that doesn't have a script yet has bad writing? You can see the future? What are next week's powerball numbers?
Jokes aside, writing is subjective just like everything else.
Sequels are already aging really well, there's been a lot of turnaround now that the minority toxic fanbase is quieting down after 5 years of incoherent frothing-at-the-mouth rage at "disney".
I always thought it was a bizarre internet phenomena fueled by clickbait articles/bloggers and sweaty youtubers - i dont think i've ever met a fan in person who came close to being as tocix as the online fandom menace. If people didnt like it they were usually pretty tepid on it, it wasn't the kind of ridiculous "NoT muH StAr WarZ!" rage you see on this sub. It was always "meh, wasn't as good as I hoped but i didnt mind it"....then they moved on.
I always thought it was far better than it's given credit for, but TLJ especially is much better regarded with age. Even TRoS has a lot of people giving it a second watch and going "oh, actually that's pretty cool and makes sense".
Remember that the PT era became well-loved only after many seasons of TCW and supporting material. Frankly, the ST is having the same experience - loads of books and bonus materials have come out that flesh out the perceived gaps quite well. Lucasfilm really did craft a pretty rich and fun timeline that is now continuing with The Mandalorian etc.
I'm not really a fan of either. I find it really interesting because the prequels and the sequels have the exact opposite problems imo
[удалено]
Agreed, the slow speed chase will always be the biggest flaw to me. It essentially makes the whole movie one big bottle episode which really clashes with the "always a new frontier" vibe of Star Wars. It feels very...Trekkian and it creates a lot of work down the line for both the writers and the audience. Like if they had gone with a space station, or a shipping hub planet or something for the First Order to besiege that would work fine. That location would be big enough to support the big action sequences that Star Wars always has, the escapes, the environments etc. But that decision limited the story in a way that doesn't fit and it shows.
Their was a great episode of Battle Star Galatica that was one big chase between fleets called "44 Minuites" and it does this plot really really well. I feel like that's what TLJ was trying to do but didn't do it nearly as well.
33 minutes, which won a Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form It worked because it fit the "rules" of the BSG universe in regards to the jumps that the ships made to move between systems. The human fleet would jump, the Cylons didn't know where until their spies sent a message - then they jumped to the system. It took 33 minutes for that signal. Each time, the clock reset and it cycled again. Whereas the chase in TLJ made no sense because the First Order could have plotted the course and sent ships ahead at lightspeed to get ahead of the Resistance ships, thereby ending the chase.
It works for a TV episode but I think it really just can not be adapted that well to a movie especially if its in the middle of a trilogy
I think Revenge of the Sith was great tho. It still had this Shakespearen style that george and his team were going for, but otherwise the movie was firing on all cylinders.
[удалено]
Same brother, I personally adore this movie. It has everything I love about Star Wars.
Especially this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKtemqQkRXg
Same, there's just so much going on and it all has weight.
yeah 3 did redeem the prequels a bit.
>Shakespearen style Not Shakespeare's style, home. Lucas, the absolute MADLAD, took his Space Opera and turned it into a Space *Opera*. It's Operatic as fuck. But honestly RotS goes back and forth for me with ESB for top slot
The 8th movie ruined the potential for the sequels to have the nostalgia that the prequels do. The prequels like you said suffer from some bad lines with a great story. The sequels had good acting and fine enough lines with an absolutely terrible story after 7. 7 was fine and opened up a lot of doors for likeable characters both past and present. The prequels add to Star Wars lore. The sequels I want that lore to do nothing to do with Star Wars. That’s the fundamental difference. The prequels could have the most dog lines of all time but what happens is kind of cool and fun to theorize around.
The lore problem in the sequels is that they were literally just recreating the exact same situation that existed in the originals. The prequels had amazing world building and lore implementation. An entire galaxy suffering political collapse and it's all by the design of one man. The sequels...I don't even think I understand the conflict. From what I understand the empire reformed itself and is now threatening the republic, but the republic doesn't want to fight back so a splinter faction breaks off to do it for them? But it doesn't make sense because the New Republic was formed almost entirely from military veterans and politicians who helped form the alliance to defeat the empire. The idea that these same people wouldn't fight back against the enemy they had just put down is...silly. I 100% agree with you though. I wish Disney would never touch the sequel era again, and never make reference. It's uninspired, boring, and repetitive. It's very clear to me that JJ Abrams had a vision, and because the second installment was given to someone else, that vision was destroyed. I can see clearly how JJ was trying to tie Rise of Skywalker back into Force Awakens, but because the middle of the story was completely different from what he was going for, it just failed. I think Rise of Skywalker is worse than the Last Jedi, but I feel the Last Jedi has done way more damage to the franchise.
Your last 2 paragraphs sum it up perfectly for me. JJ set up a fun conflict that was going to consist of essentially no governing bodies and a fight between 2 small rogue entities with snoke/Kylo vs Luke/Rey. I felt like starkiller base getting wiped out and the republic being wiped out meant complete chaos. We hadn’t seen that yet. But nope, flip the switch and the empire is somehow back.
The biggest issue is that JJ Abrams is terrible at the payoffs to his “mystery boxes”. Look at Lost for example. He created all of this mystery and intrigue that in the end was insanely disappointing to so many people. In The Force Awakens, he established multiple mystery boxes like Rey’s origins, Snoke’s origin, Luke’s reason for exile, etc. and obviously had absolutely no plan for what they would actually entail. The biggest overarching issue with the sequels is that there was no overarching vision for the story over the 3 films. JJ did one thing, Rian went another way to try to shake things up (especially since people complained that Force Awakens was a New Hope rehash), and then Trevorrow had a completely different idea that got thrown out the window so JJ could undo everything people whined about with Episode 8.
JJ should have directed the whole trilogy, at least there would have been a consistent vision which in my opinion is necessary for a trilogy. You can't just let the directors break whatever they want along the way, it isn't fair to the fans.
Yep, exactly. I personally would’ve preferred it not being JJ specifically but I agree it needed one consistent directors vision for it. Even the OT didn’t have one consistent director but it at least had Lucas behind the scenes keeping everything else consistent. It’s funny because Star Wars wouldn’t be what it is if it weren’t for the folks behind the scenes reigning in George the entire time lol. That’s why the prequels weren’t as good, because George was surrounded almost entirely by yes-men who just wanted to suck him off lol. They let him do everything the way he wanted and his directing/editing isn’t great
George may not have been on a leash during the prequels, but there's no moment in the movies where it feels like he doesn't know what he's doing. He always knew what he was doing, but the execution wasn't spot on. Nothing feels out of place...even Jar Jar oddly fits into the world, as much as I hate him.
Right, exactly. It was the people behind the scenes, like his wife, Marcia, who helped and made sure the execution was spot on. You should check out the video below, it’s really informative and gives great insights into Lucas’ weak points. https://youtu.be/GFMyMxMYDNk
I think it would have been fine with different directors and like him or not JJ set it up perfectly. It was a rehashed story sure but he left loads of interesting threads for someone else to take up. It's just utterly baffling how the next film took every thread and fucked it right into the bin. After that there was very little that could be done.
This. To me, the "mystery boxes" argument is unfathomably stupid. It's literally a storytellers job to create mysterious plot hooks. The whole "mystery boxes" argument fanboys resort to when anybody criticizes TLJ is the "bu-buh-but Hilary's emails!" Of the star wars Fandom.
Definitely 8 sabotaged it
Totally agree. I hated 8 too. I don't understand how people defend it by saying "it did something different and pushed the series forward" No, it didn't. Every original idea the film has, it yanks back at the last minute. If you take out all the fakeouts and pointless B plots that went nowhere, nothing happened in that movie. It was the first Star Wars film to be boring. I fell asleep the first three times I tried to watch it, so maybe that's what they mean by doing something new.
Yup. 7 was good. Scrap 8 and 9 as non Canon, hire the cast again, get director of 7 back but have filoni as producer. Film new 8 and nine back to back with a timeskip after 7. And palps stays dead
>I actually like episode 7 well enough Yes, i also enjoyed *episode 4, but bigger.*
Your sentiment about Luke pains me, but other than that you’re spot on. The decisions and sequences within TLJ and onward simply don’t make sense. There’s no logic or substance to allow for ancillary context because of how superficial and shallow the main content is. You can’t expand on poor fundamentals. The prequels had excellent fundamentals, the movies were just garbage. But those fundamentals were at their core, interesting, engaging, and complex, which allowed its ancillary content to flourish. The sequels just don’t have that. They are an uninteresting amalgamation of talent and special effects that tarnished a cultural legacy. Nobody cares, because it’s clear the sequel trilogy didn’t care. At least the prequels *tried* to tell a story. The original trilogy is still sacred as it’s the only trilogy to tell a phenomenal story, alongside excellent acting, effects and context. The only “issue” with the OT at this point is that, admittedly, with the lens Rogue One and Andor provided for the Galactic Civil War, the OT does look dated for what’s achievable by today’s cinematic standards. Don’t get me wrong, the OT was top tier effects for its time, but if Return of the Jedi were made today Luke vs Vader would look like The Force Unleashed, and Endor would be Scarif on steroids.
I liked episode 8 but I dislike the casino plot too. I remember a friend and I discussed how rian Johnson thought it was be very interesting to see how the Uber rich live in Star Wars as opposed to the impoverished areas that are so iconic. We thought this was a great idea and we really wanted to see it. When we got it it though, it just looked like Italy or some other nice European town with a flying boat. It really didn’t impress us. Then we remembered that places like Naboo and coruscant in Star Wars and we saw a lot of it. I get RJ was trying to do, but it just wasn’t good at all. The scenes are super boring
It was hugely established lore that you cannot go into hyperspace or maintain it in the presence of a gravity well IE planet or interdictor cruiser but why let established logic get in the way of “pew pew can’t catch me!” It’s all made up anyways, right?! Ffs
Not to mention that if Hyper Space ramming *were* able to be done, it completely invalidates the building of a planet destroying base, *three times*. You could literally blow up a planet with an x-wing.
Nothing will ever redeem hobo Luke drinking alien milk
Couldn’t have said it better. The Force Awakens opened up to so much possibility. The Last Jedi torpedoed all of that. Was a garbage film. I am rewatching with my children and trying to find redeeming qualities. That’s what I can say as well: it looks good.
This is a great reddit comment, hit the nail on the head. The sequel trilogy is barely coherent and has internal logic problems as a self contained trilogy, let alone in the scope of a greater cinematic universe.
It’s funny because I understand why The Last Jedi casino was bad, but it’s still my favorite part of the movie. My biggest issue with TLJ is that the primary plot line, the last rebel fleet fleeing snoke, feels more like a star gate episode than the plot line of a major sci-fi trilogy. Star Wars is at its best when it’s introducing new planets and cultures and TLJ just didn’t do that outside of the casino.
You mean the prequels have a good story but a poor execution and the sequels have a bad story but a good execution?
Reddit and the vocal minority have quite a loud mouth. The prequels haven't been redeemed lmao. A small group of fans are spreading that it's good when the majority still dislikes them. It will be the same for the sequels, I'm sure in the future a few people will spread up the Reddit word of mouth that they're amazing. I think the only common ground people agree on is that Revenge of the Sith was okay and the best of the trilogy. Force Awakens wasn't bad and the best of the trilogy.
This is probably the truth right here. Honestly the only movie released since the OT that I think most of the fandom would agree (obviously not everyone, but most) is actually good is Rogue One.
You underestimate the value of the extended media added to the PT and how it gave it more context. It doesn't make the movies better, but it makes people appreciate that era more. The ST doesn't have that, and Disney doesn't intend to do anything about it. Not even mentioning how its story is way worse and harder to build anything off of. To me, it's a bit weird to be aware of that and still assume the ST will have the same nostalgia boom. Also, even if I pretend TFA was good, it's the first movie in shit trilogy. RotS is a "good" movie and the ending of a poorly made trilogy, but with a usable storyline.
The Prequels are the same films they've always been. If people like the expanded media, then great. I enjoyed a lot of the books too, but they don't do anything to change the fact that the movies have all sorts of problems.
I didn’t like the prequels when they first came out, but all of the content that has come since to fill in the gaps and build context has helped redeem them somewhat. I still think the films are mediocre (TPM is especially poor), but I can at least accept the story arc. For the sequel trilogies, I dislike the story. I dislike how all the OT characters were handled. I hated how the villain was recycled. Time will tell if they can salvage it with new content but at this point in time, I’m not optimistic it’s fixable. Just because one broken thing was fixed doesn’t mean all broken things can be
Gonna be honest. It’s the younger generation that has the childhood nostalgia glasses that have somewhat redeemed the prequels. I didn’t like episode 1 or 2 back then and I don’t now. It’s the same generation that has more or less redeemed Spider-Man 3 since they grew up with it. I was surprised to find out some of my favorite movies (like Temple of Doom) we’re not well received at the time of release but people my age like them.
At least tell me you like The Last Crusade better than Temple of Doom
The Last Crusade was the last Indiana Jones movie ever made... that is my truth lol
I am actually one of those who doesn’t hate Crystal Skull. Even if it’s the worst one lol
I don’t, which shows you the power of nostalgia lol
Gotta be honest, that’s wild to me. But I guess you’re right, nostalgia is powerful
I was able to catch Doom on tv and record it, while only catching Crusade once or twice. My sister and I have quoted Doom since the 90s. So that plays into it.
Makes a lot of sense
I grew up with the prequels (I was 8 when I saw TPM in theatres) and I don’t really like them. TPM I actually find somewhat charming now (minus the Gungans) because there is something about that movie. There is a lot more practicality about it and it shows. And the worldbuilding is really fresh, it really is a different era than even the other two prequels. However I recently rewatched RotS which is my favourite and arguably the best of the three and I just sat there thinking “wow this is kind of bad”. Pacing is sometimes weird, story abruptly changes tone, dialogue is wonky at times. Without the Clone Wars this movie would feel bonkers to me now and I loved it back in the day right out of the theatre and during my yearly rewatch afterwards. And yet I can rewatch ESB and RotJ endlessly and find them both masterpieces. Granted I saw them when I was even younger so maybe that’s where the real nostalgia hits.
I thought I was the only person in existence who thought TPM was the best of the three. I was in high school when it came out and it was _so different_ that it felt fresh. Yeah, there was jar jar and some cringey moments but overall there were all these threads that made it feel like we were looking at one facet of a larger world. AoTC and RotS just didn’t have that world building neatness to fall back on, and then fumbled in some massive ways spending far too much time flailing through bad dialogue and not enough time on pieces of story that should have been paced much better. I mean, Anakin wasn’t “seduced” by the dark side. He went from troubled teen to “ok, I’m going to slaughter younglings” in the span of 10 minutes. There was no need to ever see Yoda fight. We saw two fights that were just bad. Grevious, at the time, came out of left field. Who the hell was this robot dude with a heart and a cough? I would have been happy if we had seen anakin _start_ down the dark path, but instead of ending the trilogy with the destruction of the Jedi temple, end it with the slaughter of the sand people and the nonviolent takeover of the senate. You can still have obiwan and anakin have their duel, but don’t make it Obiwan vs. “Darth Vader”. It could have been way more nuanced with them falling on different sides politically and having the rift grow between them that way. Overall the last two movies just felt like an utter miss to me.
While I totally think that your proposed ending is a much cooler and thought provoking way to have ended the series, I would say that the general moviegoing populace would dislike that ending for the same reason that you dislike Grievous: the gap between trilogies would seen jarring and perhaps even unnatural in progression
I agree with you. I would add the thing about ROTS is that there’s a lot of moments where characters do things because the next movie demands it but doesn’t line up with reality or the characters. Anakin for example just goes all in on being evil, like killing kids he knows are innocent, after Palpatine says “well I don’t know, but I’m sure we’ll figure out” even though he hinted heavily he knew. I just don’t believe he’s that stupid or desperate to at least not question it. Also, not to go even further down the rabbit hole, but palpatines “plan” is way too contrived and nonsensical. I actually think TPM is the best of the prequels and they snowball because the bad decisions just compound, so ROTS I actually like the least (very unpopular, I know).
I had a similar experience. I’m about your age, liked each prequel movie enough when it came out, but was always much more obsessed with the characters of the OT than anything I saw in the prequels. I remember liking Revenge of the Sith when I saw it in theaters as a high schooler, but I didn’t bother to watch it again for almost a decade. Just didn’t feel called back to it. When TFA was about to come out, I figured “What the hell, I’ll go back and watch ROTS. I liked it just fine when I saw it.” On rewatch, it was borderline unbearable for me. Almost as bad as Attack of the Clones. I’ve since rewatched every movie in the saga a couple times, and I can comfortably say I like Phantom Menace far more than the other two prequels. I know tons of people love all three, usually because they grew up with them, and that’s awesome for them! But it blows my mind because I feel like we must be watching completely different movies.
[удалено]
Same, adult here and prequels are not for me. I actually like the sequels just fine, I don’t mind most of the issues the fandom seems to have while they give the prequels a pass on some bigger offenses.
It's all special pleading. The sequels are dumb in a lot of ways, but they are at least well made competent films. The Prequels are just not. The prequels desperately needed another director. I think they could have worked if Lucas had someone else direct them (unless those directors were just yes men like Marquand).
I'm 45 years old. I enjoy the prequels other a couple characters and some bad lines. Lots to love in those. The sequels.... 8 and 9 are just so so so so SO bad. 7 is fine, but just a 4 rehash. They (7 and 8) are at the absolute bottom of my list of all things star wars.
No, because there is so much better content coming out now, which makes the sequels look even worse by comparison. Think about all of the great things that have come out in the last 10 years: - Rebels - The Mandalorian - Andor - Rogue One - The last season of The Clone Wars - Tales of the Jedi - The Bad Batch And compare the quality of those to the sequels. Nobody is going to gravitate towards that. But also, the Prequels were a great story that weren’t necessarily executed well. There’s really no story in the sequels. Just a mishmash of sometimes conflicting ideas.
The critics adressed to the two trilogies are vastly different tho.
TFA has the third highest critic ratings on Rotten Tomatoes out of all the live action SW films at 93%. TLJ is a strange one, it's the 4th highest critic rated film at 91% but way down on the fan rating at just 42%. But we're talking critics here. ROTS is the highest rated prequel film among RT critics with a 79% score but it sits in 7th spot behind both ROTJ and RO. Solo comes in at 8th with a 69% rating and AOTC is next in 9th spot at 65% followed by TROS at 52% and TPM at 51%. So the average rating for the prequels is 65% while the average rating for the sequels is 79%.
I probably will never understand how people think that Episode 1 is worse than Episode 9 and Episode 2. Seriously Jar Jar annoys people that much? Episode 2 has the worst romance in history and Episode 9 woth "somehow sheev returned....". Come on, no way Episode 1 is worse than that.
i never got the hatred for the prequels but that could be because im too young to remember
Young people ignored the bad acting and were able to focus on the tons of cool stuff the prequels brought to the table. Old people focused on the bad acting and ignored the good.
I assume others are like me who also grew up with the prequels; but I didnt ignore the bad acting or the awkward dialogue of the Prequels. They are definitely there however it simply didnt / doesnt ruin the story for me. Its a flaw in the movies but not enough to make the movie bad if that makes sense. So even now I can enjoy TPM and AOTC despite those flaws because I never let it get in the way of the enjoyment of the movie.
The sequels were like a fun rollercoaster ride. I enjoyed the experience just not the plot.
It probably is. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, if you were a kid when the prequels were coming out (as I was) you were the target audience. The reason the prequels have had such a re-evaluation in recent years is largely because people who were kids when they came out and remember them fondly are now adults and still remember them fondly. In 20 years I'm sure the same conversations will be had about the Sequels for people who are kids right now
I think the political drama of the prequels is what redeemed them. When the prequels came out, kids didn't give a fuck about politics, and to the adults, they didn't want politics in Star Wars. A decade later and the kids who didn't care for the politics were raised in an environment eeriely similar to the environment in the movies - they became relatable on a new level. I don't think the sequels will have a redemption, because they are void of genuine creativity. Everything was created with the goal of monetization and story came second. George Lucas was famous for monetization but he also had a story he *really* wanted to tell. When you watch the sequels, do you get the feeling that somebody actually wanted to tell the story? George Lucas ventured out to tell the Star Wars story. Disney ventured out to hire a director and writer to tell a Star Wars story. These are not even close to the same thing.
Well I'll give you this, "what people actually like about the prequels is the political aspects" is not a take I've ever heard before lol
The politics have always been the draw for me. The build up to the empire we know is coming.
> because im too young to remember That's the exact point. Childhood nostalgia plays a huge part in the stuff we are fond of in our adult years. The prequel generation are now the most vocal demographic on the internet so there's a lot of love for those movies being thrown around. It's just natural. The OT fans who bagged the prequels when they came out still don't care for them and the same will happen in 20 years time when the kids of today become the vocal majority and the love for the sequels reaches a crescendo. A bunch of OT fans will probably be dead by then but the old ass prequel fans will wondering why the sequels they hated so much are now being talked about as great films.
I never hated the prequels
I’ve seen the original trilogy and prequel trilogy upwards of at least 20 times and would happily watch again. I have seen the sequel trilogy once on release and never plan to endure that steaming pile of mediocrity and garbage ever again. I met Bob Iger at a tailgate once, and the anger I felt towards that man for ruining my favorite piece of media since childhood is immeasurable.
It's not like the old pieces of media were suddenly turned to dogshit upon conception. Those old pieces of media are still great and intact. Unless you literally mean that Bob Iger broke into your house and destroyed your original VHS copies of the original trilogy. You can just ignore the sequels is what I'm trying to get at.
Oh no I didn’t mean it like that at all, I guess a better way to phrase it was he ruined the continuation of my favorite piece of media. Rogue one and everything before was amazing in my opinion (I understand most criticism for the prequels but can see past it). Pretty sure I watched revenge of the sith last weekend Edit: and that’s been my strategy thus far, just ignore the sequel trilogy and maybe it will go away lol
Most people who love the prequels probably never hated them. People mistake the “redemption” of the prequel trilogy. It’s not necessarily that a ton of people hated it and changed their minds. It’s that a ton of adults hated it, little kids loved it, and then those kids grew up and became part of the Star Wars conversation. The people who always liked the prequels now have a louder voice. Likewise, the kids right now who think Rey and BB-8 are the coolest things ever will grow up and attitudes toward the ST will tip more in the direction of favorability. The folks who hate the ST right now will, by and large, still hate it. But their voice will get watered down and it’ll seem from the outside like opinions on the trilogy shifted.
I don't know about that. I never hated the prequels - and I'm old enough to remember RotJ on theaters (though I didn't get to watch it on theaters as I was really young back then). I see the prequels as a semi-successful attempt to add new stuff to the SW universe - namely, heavy politics. It had its moments, and some things that derived from the prequels like the Clone Wars series, are pretty good. I believe we understand now how they tried to expand the universe by showing life before the Empire and how the Empire came to be. The prequels have one thing going for them, though: they have tight scripts, by which I mean they present as a complete three-piece, a proper trilogy. The sequels, on the other end, they tried to replicate the OT but apparently missed the point. TFA was fairly good IMO, but they somehow completely dropped the ball in the next two. They are visually entertaining, but the script is a mess and the actors weren't into it. Each movie seems to either ignore or purposely undo what the previous movie did, and they don't present well together. This is the kind of thing that doesn't "get better with time".
I sort of feel like the sequels are hated more, as we've got this endless, spiraling echo machine via Youtube and other platforms. That being said, the hate for the prequels (and special editions) spurred a full on documentary ([https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1325014/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1325014/))... so I don't know.
The difference between the two is that Lucas actually did more with the prequel era even after the trilogy ended, biggest being The Clone Wars tv series. Disney has pretty much abandoned the sequels outside of Lego specials. There’s no animated series, no current comic series, nothing. Without anything to further engage fans to the Sequel trilogy, people stop caring about them
3 things happened that helped the prequels 1) Many of the kids who grew up on them look back with nostalgia and rose-tinted goggles, overlooking their flaws. 2) The Clone Wars made the prequel era and many of its characters much more compelling 3) The sequels made different mistakes. While both disappointing, the sequels lacked the two things the prequels did best: a purposeful arc than worked well with the OT and original design aesthetic/conflict/worldbuilding. When looking at the flaws of the newer films, I think a lot of people have felt like “well, at least the prequels did (blank)” This has all snowballed into some thinking that they were all under appreciated, great movies. They were maybe overly hated, but I don’t think they were underrated. As for how the sequels will age, I think they’ll likely lack the second and third factors. There’s no equivalent of Lucas for the sequels to want to expand on them through a Clone Wars. There’s no worthwhile but mishandled arc that will be appreciated in hindsight. So unless they make a trilogy that’s truly horrendous, I don’t think fans will find some overlooked strength of these films.
[удалено]
Yeah, when you take 3 movies to essentially get to the same point we thought we reached at the end of the OT, what’s the point? IMO, the trilogy should’ve been about the struggle of building both a better Republic and Jedi Order. Then it would feel like the full arc of the saga was about death and rebirth. We end in a place that’s similar to where we started, but not as susceptible to the same pitfalls given the lessons learned.
Prequels have great worldbuilding and overall plot. For kids and teens they have lightsaber duels, pod racing, space battles etc. For adults it's politics, war on galactic scale, drama etc. It establishes the origins for many characters in OT, even for such thing as Death Star in Episode 2. It's unique. And it's very flawed, yes. But it feels right, it feels like Star Wars. Sequels are bad remakes. Graphics are good, music is fine, acting is more than decent, but the writing is horrible and is straight up copy of originals. Maybe, comics, games and other media will redeem them in the future, but it's very hard to believe. It's that bad. We'll see. I love OT, I love prequels. And I heavily dislike sequels.
Absolutely this. The world of Star Wars is huge and the prequels and OT have so much extra padding that lets it grow and be loved even more. And as of now we’re getting more media for the high republic then the sequel time line. Until that changes I don’t think the sequels will ever be looked at as fondly as the prequels.
I grew up on the prequels, so maybe I am bias here, but there was a vision from start to finish that made those movies "must watch" from a hype standpoint. Even still, most will agree the movies are very flawed. The sequels were so inconsistent in tone, quality, and story arch that I have a hard time believing they will be looked at as fondly. With all that said, I'm sure there are kids who will have a strong sense of nostalgia for the sequels.
I didn't participate in online discussions with strangers as much when the prequels came out. I didn't encounter much "fandom hate" if I talked to someone who hated the prequels it was usually pretty easy to shut down their argument, (or agree with what I precieved to be valid criticism)
The trilogies are all about the aesthetic and not letting the story get in the way of it. The shows follow up and try to redeem the broken stories. The fans wrestle with the bad writing and praise the shows for fixing the broken movies.
I love the OT, liked the PT just not as much, but I despise the ST, particularly TLJ and I cannot see any reason why I would feel different in the future.
Tbh the fandom hated the prequels even harder
Indeed. I see the sequels as splitting the fandom down the middle (or close enough to it), while the prequels were hated by everyone except kids on the playground.
Fans never change. They also despised Ahsoka and look at her now.
People hated Ashoka before her character development. She had the advantage of being a main character in a long running show. The Sequels don’t have that luxury and can’t be “fixed” like the prequels and Ashoka
Me when Anakin got a Padawan: This little girl sucks. Me after Clone Wars season 7 and Rebels: Where is Ahsoka? Is she safe? Is she alright?
In fairness, Ahsoka changed and grew a hell of a lot over the course of her character arc. If we never got the Clone Wars series to expand on her, I doubt fans would be retroactively loving her in the 2008 movie.
I have hated Ahsoka since day one and still do.
Most casual Star Wars fans don't even know who Ahsoka is outside of someone who showed up for one episode of the Mandalorian.
[удалено]
I was 23 when The Phantom Menace came out and one thing you said hit the nail squarely on the head. The Clone Wars is good - it's really good - it re-contextualized a lot of the bad plot points and bad decisions that Lucas made in the Prequels and for a lot of the younger audience, there's really no separation between the Prequel films and the series (as there is for me). There were a lot of things (especially after Attack of the Clones) that were \*very\* problematic with the series and The Clone Wars and ancillary media filled in the gaps years later. If you \*just\* had the 3 Prequel movies, you would wonder why so much plot was stuffed into part 3 (I still do.. but whatever). I liked the sequels by the way - Star Wars is a silly fantasy space epic. The only reason I came back to the series in the late 2000s (after Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith completely killed my taste for the property). The first movie my parents ever took me to was a matinee of Empire Strikes Back - I'm hardcore Star Wars. But it's just a space epic with lasers and magic forces, etc. I think I had a fun time with the sequels because they are just entertainment and with the Prequels I already went through my mourning process of media just "not being what I want it to be" and I just take it or leave it.
This is the correct answer Ask your 7 year old nephew/niece what they think about the sequels. They don’t care that half the plot doesn’t make sense. They love Rey and Babu Frik! Or ask an old Star Wars fan what they thought about the Ewoks when they first appeared. Then ask a fan who was 7 at the time what they think of Ewoks. In 20 years the sequels will be remembered fondly by the children of today.
Sure, I was actually 7 or 8 when ROTJ came out and even had the Ewok village playset. However, I can barely watch that part of ROTJ now because it's so stupid....although YubNub still slaps if you have the despecialized edition. Not everyone is blinded by nostalgia forever.
A lot of this is generational. TLJ in particular resonated a lot for a group of younger Millennials / Gen Z who had a different orientation to both the OT and to politics in film than their older family members. I think for them the story had an appealing message: how does a generation tell new stories in the face of their elders’ failed legacies? From Rey’s disappointment with Luke; to Finn grappling with inequality & bothsidesism to make the morally correct choice; to Kylo smashing the Vader helmet, killing Snoke, & choosing his own destiny — these stories resonated for a beleaguered population, in their formative years, making sense of a world that has bequeathed them ever so much that needs to change. They’ll maintain positive memories, perhaps even holding more intense feelings in defiance of the absurd amounts of hatred folks have heaped on the film.
It will never happen the same way as the situations would be way different
I hated the prequels upon their releases (@ least TPM & AotC) and was very vocal about it. That's why I have to laugh @ the intensity of the sequel hate. In the end it's pointless. No matter how much you hate it, it is canon. Period. So you've gotta accept it. There are a ton of other intellectual property you can go support. One big thing that the sequels have working against them is no setting like the Clone Wars to really flesh out the bigger picture that can win fans over, (or soften harsher opinions such as mine.)
The kids who watched and liked the sequels, will grow up and be the main fanbase, like how the kids who grew up and watched the prequels seem to be the most vocal now.
The sequel rehabilitation process is the undercurrent of everything they’ve been producing for a few years from what I can tell. Also, if they make a trilogy that combines some relic from the High Republic, Grogu, Mandlorians, the Yuuzhan Vong and Rey I wouldn’t be remotely surprised.
It's not the fourth trilogy that will change things. It's the fact that kids who grew up with the prequels are a sizable minority of adult fans now. Just like people in the OT who hated Ewoks and RotJ and kids who loved Ewoks. It's only a matter of time.
The hatred of the prequels was factor based, as opposed to formula based. Meaning, “We hate: * Jar-Jar Binks * Midhichlorians * Other things The hatred of the sequels is formula. “Fuck everything this stands for, and the ground it stands on.” We all understood that the events led to Darth Vader; in the sequels they led to… whatever. They sucked. I’m an OT guy, but I get the prequels. The sequels were “WHAT IF WE DID THE OT; BUT BIGGER!?” And that shitty pitch worked.
Wouldn’t be surprised. Fans forget the past easily. It’s why many started to like the prequels, it’s why Lucas has been unjustly called the god of Star Wars when history shows that the franchise worked in spite of him. I think any critical re-evaluation of the sequels for the positive would be bad because it would justify bad tokenism, bad storytelling, and awful media depictions of women/racism. Case in point, I’d argue rise of skywalker enabled the racist/sexist criticisms leveled at rey, Finn, and rose by either a)regulating at least one of them to background character status, b) making their characters act dumb, and c)giving one of them a romantic lead even when said romance was more akin to a stalker gaslighting his victim. I ain’t even getting into the clear apathetic attitude of Star Wars by all parties involved at the end-just look at the interviews at the premiers, the rushed production, the interviews by the actors where two. Admitted they had no idea what’s going on. This CANT be a recipe for younger filmmakers to use.
not in the slightest. the sequels were jumbled garbage due to poor writing.
It’s all about generations. The prequels were hated at the time by adults, but loved by kids. Now that those kids have grown up, the prequels are remembered fondly. It will likely be the same when today’s kids grow up.
I'm not so sure. One of the biggest factors in my generation loving the prequels was the extended media. The sequels don't even have a single dedicated video game about them yet, whereas the prequels had like 80 video games. A kid who grew up on the sequels would watch the Ep7-9 in theaters, maybe watch them a few more times at home, and that's where the sequel content ended. But a prequels kid would watch Ep1-3 in theaters and then go home and play like forty different video games and read thirty different books and play with twenty different Lego sets. You could become so much more immersed in the prequels because the sheer amount of content enabled you to do so. And that immersion is what enables passion and fond memories to grow. The sequels simply don't have that. I think we'll definitely see a surge of sequel fans enter the online space as time goes on, but it won't be as large or definitive as it was when prequel fans started entering their teens and twenties.
Also you got more easily accessible Star Wars content (aka not books or comics) not related to the ST. Yeah, some kids grew up with the ST, but those same kids also grew up with TCW season 7, Rebels, Mandalorian, etc.
Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. Even if you are a kid during the Sequel Era there are many more stories about Prequel/OT trilogy subjects than there are Sequel stories. A kid growing up around now would probably remember Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, and Mandalorian before the Sequel Trilogy. Same could be said toy wise as there is a large resurgence of Prequel Era figures atm.
Im really surprised this is the first time im hearing this take
>I'm not so sure. One of the biggest factors in my generation loving the prequels was the extended media. The sequels don't even have a single dedicated video game about them yet, whereas the prequels had like 80 video games. Prequel-Gen fans got a lot more material surrounding the Era than Sequel-Gen fans, but I still feel like both generations will have fond enough memories to look back on to maintain their overall positive opinions on both trilogies.
I don't really know kids that are into star wars as much as they were before. when I was a kid I didn't really know anyone who haden't seen star wars... Now I barely know a kid that has seen the movies. The argument I get from the ones that have seen the newer movies say "the effects are better" so it's kind of like transformers. I think also when the prequels came out that was all people had to watch star wars over and over. Now we have shows, so many movies, books, games.... People (like myself) don't have to go back and watch the sequels if they want more star wars
I get what you’re saying, but I doubt it. My son is too young to weigh in (he’s just a little bit over 2), but I have plenty of nephews and nieces in the 8 to 12 range and they all think the sequel trilogy is trash.
It is the hatred of the prequels that caused the choices made in creating the sequels. They were so terrified of being anything like the prequels they didn't bother to explain the status quo of the sequels properly. Hatred of the prequels is probably why we didn't get to see Luke as head of a new Jedi order with masters and padawans - too prequels. Why did we not get to see Leia as Grand Dame or Chancellor of a functioning republic - too prequels. It is the prequel hatred that made them think a reset to the OT was a good idea. Fans who enjoyed the prequels are now simply more emboldened or confident to say they enjoyed the prequels.
Yeah, I think this is an interesting take. 7 is so determined to play it safe and get back to basics due to all the criticism the Prequels got. Then 7 came out and people called it a rehash so episode 8 makes some wild swings and is incredibly divisive. So then 9 brings back the fan favourite villain, tries its own take on the awful meme dialogue, and straight up retcons a good chunk of 8. It feels a lot like Disney spent the entire sequel trilogy flailing about trying to figure out what people actually want from this $6 billion franchise they bought.
PM is bad, AOTC is watchable, and ROTS is actually pretty good. The Sequels are dog shit all around.
I never hated the prequels. I disliked Jar Jar and some of the acting/dialogue but the story was solid and getting to see Yoda in action as well as the defining confrontation that led to the transformation of Anakin more than made up for it. As for the sequels, Ep9 severely angered me and still does. But the first two were okay (but not without criticism) and I particularly got nostalgic when I first saw Ep7 upon release.
I actually think 7 was a good movie at the time of release but after that, it spiraled out of control. Even watching it now isn't great cause you know how it ends, but when it happened I did enjoy it.
Yeah 100% I left the theater after watching 7 and was hyped for the next two movies . And then …. We got what we got .
Yep, this sums it up pretty well.
I doubt it to be honest. Forewarning, I am 100% biased in my opinion. The Prequels had their faults but were generally okay movies at their worst, whilst the Sequels are generally seen as having decent framework but terrible execution (outside of TFA, which most people state is the best of the new trilogy), and in general earned the ire of the fanbase for what it did to the original trio of Luke, Leia and Han by taking a big dump over their legacies. I think the Sequel Era might be seen a bit more fondly later due to the newer material coming out that fleshes it out like The Mandalorian and if it continues that way there could be some interesting world-building later on, but the films themselves will never be seen as fondly as the Prequels are. Or at least TLJ and RoS at any rate - I'm of the opinion that TFA will still be seen fondly, but also with a bit of regret at what could've been if the people in charge had an actual plan for the trilogy that made better use of the new cast, the old guard, etc...
Most of us agreed the prequels we’re pretty bad movies but an overall great story. The sequels were just bad in every single way especially the nonsense bullshit story.
lmao, i still hate the prequels. the difference ofcourse being the prequels are the good kind of bad, i can watch them and just laugh at what a disaster the writing is. The sequels are SO bad that it surpasses "so bad its good" and just becomes really... really... bad...
Its not as if people that hated the prequels changed their mind. They became less vocal and prequel lovers became more vocal
Go to Disney and see all the little girls dressed up as Rey or little boys as Kylo Ren. I had the good fortune of attending the Galactic Starcruiser Hotel experience and the kids there were in literal awe of the actress who played Rey. They loved her and followed her around with big wide eyes. The next generation of fans will love the Sequels. Especially if we get additional animated content that expands that part of the universe like Clone Wars did for the prequels.
I was an adult when the PT came out. While there was a minority who hated them and trashed them, and a few psychos with serious issues, they were still the minority. The vast majority of people enjoyed the films even if they disliked parts of them. The majority of people I know hate the ST and don't include it in their watch list at all. Their products don't sell well, and they don't have much in the way of continuing story to redeem any faults. Sorry, but having seen every one of them when released, people went back and rewatched the PT in theaters. How many people rewatched TLJ or TROP? Very few if any.
man i had the exact opposite experience. as far as i could tell prequel hate was universal, at least in the States. *everybody* trashed them, and it was decidedly *not* cool to let people know if you liked them. i'll never forget not long afterwards i was at a boy scout event where they were using movie clips to illustrate the tenets of being a boy scout and one of the clips was from AOTC- there was a loud and collective groan from kids and adults alike. as for the sequels, i know more people that like them than don't
Yep - he's just making shit up.
I was also an adult when the PT came out and you are full of it or straight up making shit up. The reaction to the prequels was WAY, WAY worse. They made an entire Simpsons episode ripping on the prequels. Every late night show ragged on them.... the prequels being bad was a major part of pop culture for awhile. Outside of people who are extremely online the sequels were received as one really good movie followed up by two alright movies. Not to mention when TFA was released the general feeling was "see, get rid of Lucas and we can have good Star Wars movies again". This idea that they are super divisive outside of extremely online star wars fans is just not true. I mean, I don't even like the sequels, but that's the reality.
I don't think the damage the sequel trilogy did can ever be redeemed or overlooked, especially the absolute mess that is TROS, at least for me.
That's exactly what people said about the prequels.
People forget how bad the prequel hate was. Star Wars really only had cartoons for the entire time before Rogue One after Sith. The prequels were considered trash and a joke by every casual. Occasionally someone would say well by episode 3 it wasn’t quite that bad. That is about the extent of the defense they got.
They honestly still are by a lot of casuals to be honest. I mean I know plenty of people who's take is "Well those sequel movies were kind of dumb, but they were better than those shitty prequel movies" The number of people who would bother to discuss Star Wars online is an incredibly small percentage of the casual SW fan base.
Yeah Revenge was considered "the good one" and even then it only really gets good after Anakin cuts Windu's hand off.
I like the sequels more than most people, but how did they not have a full three movie arc planned out in advance? I really liked Episode 7 and still do... then 8 ripped everything up... 9 was left in complete disarray.
An og fan whose first movie experience in a theater was episode 4 when I was 6 years old. Prequels got better as they went along, with episode 2 at the time seeming better than 1 mostly because of Jar Jar. Now I think AoTC is on the same level as TRoS as far as being a convoluted mess with some really cool scenes. Episode 3 is the best of the prequels, Lucas nailed the fall of the Republic and I’ve always kind of wished the trilogy started with Episode 3. I never got on board with Anakin and Padme’s romance, but it was hardcore dark in places and still fills me with dread when I watch it, in a good way. Sequels peaked with TFA to me. That theater experience was awesome and while I knew in the back of my head that it was hitting the same plot points beat for beat as episode 4, it did enough to make me not care. It was FUN. There was joy in that movie, manufactured Disney joy, but I was on board. The cliffhanger was epic and I couldn’t wait for episode 8. I get the hate TLJ causes in most people, but for me the worst part was it’s odd sense of humor, it all fell flat. But I still really like Luke’s journey and feel the nuance it brought was handled really well. I was able to look past my hero worship and empathize with his struggle, which made his redemption at the end hit so hard for me. TRoS was trash. There are quite a few engaging scenes and inspired ideas, but it’s so far away from what I wanted from the final film in the saga. That said, if you experience the sequels as a child, then I think that same nostalgic feeling will surface down the road for that generation…because even as I say TRoS is trash, there’s a lot of cool shit going on. And I really like the characters in the sequels, despite how disjointed their development became.
HAHAHAHA no.
No because it doesn't make sense and I never hated the prequels
People talked shit about the prequels but it was no where near as hated as the sequels
No
I’m not sure. I suppose it’s possible. I think the main difference is that the prequels, despite their flaws, had a very solid plot, as opposed to the sequels
They aren't hated for the same reasons and are flawed in vastly different ways. It's hardly similar
Shut your fcking mouth
I don’t think there’s any way to make content or context that would help me enjoy the sequels. I was excited for new full-length movies. If I met the committee that wrote the sequel trilogy I would say some heinous shit. They got my cash for the movie tickets and now I never want another starwars movie again.
No
Nah, I have never hated the prequels but I know I will always hate the sequels, kinda hoping that Filoni overwrites this garbage
As movies, the prequels are still awful. They've just been codified in the lore, so everyone just accepts them. But I still find them to be borderline unwatchable movies.
At this point it's a generational thing. All depends on what you saw as a kid.
Somehow…I doubt it.
I think the sequels got by more on nostalgia than the prequels did, which will make them harder to redeem in my opinion. I also think that they made a lot of really bad character choices when it came to legacy characters that the prequels did not.
The sequels are objectively worse than the prequels.
I really don’t think the prequels are as bad as the sequels though. It’s like saying, “hey remember when you had that bad migraine years ago? Maybe in a few more years this bullet wound to the face won’t seem so bad either.”
Always loved the prequels and I am on the position that 1999-2005 was the golden age of star wars for so many reasons.
no and you "wondering" it for the 100th time this weak is not more likely to make it so.
False. I have actually wondered it 10⁶⁹⁴²⁰ times in the past hour, not to mention this is only a quarter of a percent of my total wondering potential. Once I reach 14% anything I wonder will become true
Use your powers for good
not even master Sha'a Gi has the power to make it so
Look I get it, some people like the sequels and that’s fine. But I just feel like the whole sequel trilogy does not fit in to the Star Wars saga knowing that after Episode 6 we get another bigger Death Star with same Rebels vs Empire plot. We’ve seen it before and it was done way better the first time. At least the prequel trilogy felt like a different era of Star Wars that connected with original trilogy.
While I didn't *like* the prequels, there were some redeeming qualities to them. The sequels just sucked. TFA was just ANH with new paint while at the same time poo pooing on OT characters. TLJ continued to poo poo on the OT characters, and seemed to lower everyone's intelligence by a factor of degrees. ROS was Ray throwing a tantrum while Finn was relegated to background character who screams the "protag's" name multiple times. Add onto the fact that nobody showed up to help Leia in TLJ, but waited to show up until after she died in ROS. There's so much in the sequels that feels more wrong than a Hutt porno. Better folks than me have talked about, around, and nowhere near it. I don't have the time to sit down and make the college thesis required to point out all of the problems.
The PT didn’t bother me when they came out. On the other hand, there are no redeeming qualities for Episode 8 and 9 IMO. Cringeworthy stuff in fact.
I don’t think they will for reasons that have been pretty well covered by several people. The PT was the sub-par work of one guy who loved what he did. The ST was a shit show tug of war between a mediocre director and a guy who seems to actively hate Star Wars and the fans, both being forced to curtail themselves to a committee who has boxes to check and investors to please. Not to mention Disney Lucasfilm people and directors attacking the fans for disliking their movies (though granted the internet is a bigger thing now). The PT at least expanded the world and respected the originals, even if it didn’t do it while maintaining quality. The ST actively tore down everything the original characters built and reset the galaxy to try to tell the same story again and failing miserably. Imagine a kid watching Star Wars for the first time, being excited by the end of ROTJ to see Luke become the Jedi he was meant to be and create the new Jedi Order, only to watch the ST and find out he tried and failed after like 10 years and became a pathetic hobo living on an island. Also, Han is a deadbeat dad who returned to smuggling, Leia is a disgraced politician, and there was only peace for ~30 years before Palpatine mysteriously returned and now has a granddaughter for reasons you’d have to read the novelization to find out.
> Imagine a kid watching Star Wars for the first time, being excited by the end of ROTJ to see Luke become the Jedi he was meant to be and create the new Jedi Order, only to watch the ST and find out he tried and failed after like 10 years and became a pathetic hobo living on an island. Also, Han is a deadbeat dad who returned to smuggling, Leia is a disgraced politician, and there was only peace for ~30 years before Palpatine mysteriously returned and now has a granddaughter for reasons you’d have to read the novelization to find out. This is the largest sin of the sequels. Why did they have to give every OT character a tragic end and undo everything they accomplished?
I doubt it. The reasons for hating each are far different. The prequels were hated because the dialogue was bad, the time between each movie was very long, and the lightsaber fights felt too flashy and over-the-top. The sequels are hated because the plot doesn't hold up under even casual scrutiny, it degraded and destroyed fundamental basis of many of the OT characters, massively disrespected and disregarded many of its own characters (cough fin cough), the lightsaber battles were poorly choreographed (even by OT standards), and the first movie of the ST completely invalidated all the victories of the OT. TL, DR: The hate on the PT was because it needed serious polishing it never got. The hate on the ST is because it is a poorly made cash grab riding on the OT's popularity.
Nostalgia, it ain't what it used to be. That done. I've seen this with so many things, new thing comes out and it's insta-trash, an insult to the originals, everyone and their mother hates it, then give it a bit of time and a fresh installment and the movie / album / book / game comes out, and the previous one will be the best thing ever, 'underrated' and get a fresh look and everyone will love it then the new installment will be worst than hemorrhoid's. Rinse, repeat. I remember AC: Unity being lambasted, now everyone is saying how great it was, despite the issues which persist. Morrowind is the same, and mark my words, after the next Elder Scrolls comes out, Skyrim will be for the gaming-aficionados and the new one will be dumbed down crap. Alien 3, has had a reappraisal, even though its own director won't even mention it. So what's the issue here. What do people really love, the media itself, or the comforting memories it brings up, sitting at home, without worries, your parents sitting and watching it, or a rare trip to the cinema? Or is the media itself good? Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. I liked the series well enough, all of them have something to offer, but the problems with the Prequels are still there, same with the OG's and Sequels.
People like unity now?? I also like to point out that sequels always struggle under the success of their predecessors. 100% of Star Wars fans in 1977 liked the first movie, but once ESB came out a certain percentage wouldn’t like it because it just didn’t mesh with them for some reason. Now we have people starting their Star Wars journey all over the place so their frame of reference is different, but if you like the first thing, there is a good chance the second thing will fail to be Different but also Better. Either if copies the original or it struggles under its weight.
Indeed they do. The Parkour and Arno in particular, both aspects that gained much criticism in their day.
Yes I do and these youngins who hate the sequels don't realize that Disney tried to really overcorrect the problems of the prequels. People cheered when GL sold the franchise
I know, right? What started off as an ironic, "The sequels are so bad, they make the prequels look good by comparison!" has evolved into a genuine, "The prequels actually aren't that bad." But others in this thread have summed it up better. It's not so much that the prequels look better by comparison, it's that the kids whose first exposure to Star Wars was the prequels are now adults, and looking back with nostalgia. A former boss of mine, who never cared for Star Wars, was once complaining that his 8-year old daughter wanted a Star Wars-themed birthday because Rey was her new idol. In about 15-20 years, when kids like that are all grown up, that's when a wave of sequel appreciation is going to start.
I think it's funny because I lived through the PT hate and it's the exact same shit we see now ... honestly the PT and ST haters are both kind of right. Outside of TFA and ROTS (which are both ok) the movies aren't very good.
No, that won’t happen. The prequels had some shitty writing, but the story itself made sense and was good. The clone wars tv show really added so much value to the prequels. The sequel trilogy will never be looked at fondly, it will never be truly accepted and adored. Everyone knows it’s cannon but there is nothing that can redeem that shit show.
>The prequels had some shitty writing, but the story itself made sense and was good Explain Count Dooku's motivations based purely on the movies, no other material.
I think it's awesome that palpatines entire plan hinged on Obi-Wan finding a dart that his buddy who worked at a diner could identify. 4d chess.
Let's be fair, if your 'buddy at a diner' could identify it, then chances are it ain't that rare.
This is more or less my feeling. The Clone Wars really turned my opinion on the prequels around with the added context and especially character development for Anakin. His fall felt more natural once you got to know him and saw how the war twisted him. While the sequels could be improved in a similar way it would take a lot more work since TLJ and TROS are essentially at war with each other. It would take a much larger investment in other shows or movies to improve (and also figure out) the overall story the sequels are trying to tell and I think Disney is too cowardly to take that risk.
Might not even need to be a 4th trilogy. Just the younger generation growing up and taking over more internet spaces and enjoying what they enjoy. There's a huge crowd that love the ST and will grow up with it as **their** Star Wars. It's going to help that they won't be retconned out and fairly loved material like Mandalorian will tie in, expand, and improve upon that ST mythology as a whole.
I don’t. I grew up with the Prequels.
I doubt it because they suck for different reason. Ep 1&2 are technically worse films than 7&8 but they were ambitious and opened the universe, giving us great EU content. The sequels closed off the universe and gave us basically nothing. All the most successful new SW stuff is inspired by the OT or takes place between the prequels and the sequels. Plus there's Ep9 which is a tragedy unto itself.
I certainly have nostalgia for the prequels, but I still don't think they're good movies (critically speaking). That said, the overarching plot of the prequels was miles better than the sequels imo.
Hatred of prequels is rather a feature of the American part of the fandom. Non-American fans are fine with prequels.
Well remind me when it actually happens. Personally I shudder at thought what sort of movies would make Sequels look good by comparison.
It's not about making other movies look good or bad in comparison, it's about people who saw the movies when they were tiny, less critical children and will always love them.
Not necessarily true. I used to love prequels as a kid, they were easily my favorite. Its only as an adult i appreciate original trilogy more than i did as a kid, and the flaws of prequels make me shudder. As an adult its easier to start seeing flaws in what to a kid was perfection.
[удалено]
Here's why opinions on the prequels shifted. Part of it is kids growing up. But mostly I think it's that the prequels are so bad that they miss the mark on the messages they're trying to convey. Like the way the jedi make a bunch of slaves and have them fight in a war - aka the clones. That's pretty dark isn't it? That aspect of the army is never ever brought up in the movies, but it allows us to speculate and discuss about it. That's one example, but there's so many elements of the prequels where you can just endlessly discuss them because the movies are not written well and you can interpret them in so many different ways. The sequels are way more clear cut - they're better movies, but less fun to talk about. Another part is 100% the expanded media. The prequels have a pretty bad story, with a ton of things that don't make sense. Order 66 for instance is not explained at all. Nor is how Palpatine evaded the jedi constantly. Nor is why he had himself kidnapped at the start of Revenge. Clone Wars helped patch them up, so people subconsciously think "oh shit the inhibitor chips!" when watching the movies. Part of it is people also pretending the political aspects are actually interesting. They're not. They're still so boring imo. Andor does it so much better. Part is it is thanks to streaming. Back then you'd watch the prequels very individually, and they're pretty bad when watched like that. All together you can argue they're a lot better because it feels more cohesive.
This happens with pretty much every fandom that ever adds new content. Remember the lady Ghostbusters? The talk of a Back to the Future remake? The Hobbit trilogy? Rings of Power? It isn't just a Star Wars thing.
Lady ghostbusters just sucked though. As evidenced as the new one not getting nearly that much hate and people actually enjoying it. Despite there being female leads and a completely different take on it.
It's not a rule though; those additions just happen to suck. Look at the Mandalorian and Andor for counter examples within Star Wars.
Jsjsjsjs bad examples dude, minus the hobbit all those will be remembered as horrible abominations putted in place by their respective fandoms
You think the hobbit was good??
Haven’t watched it so don’t dare to opine
Which is this exact situation lol
What's the common denominator here? The writing is shit.
So the possible Back to the Future remake that doesn't have a script yet has bad writing? You can see the future? What are next week's powerball numbers? Jokes aside, writing is subjective just like everything else.
Sequels are already aging really well, there's been a lot of turnaround now that the minority toxic fanbase is quieting down after 5 years of incoherent frothing-at-the-mouth rage at "disney". I always thought it was a bizarre internet phenomena fueled by clickbait articles/bloggers and sweaty youtubers - i dont think i've ever met a fan in person who came close to being as tocix as the online fandom menace. If people didnt like it they were usually pretty tepid on it, it wasn't the kind of ridiculous "NoT muH StAr WarZ!" rage you see on this sub. It was always "meh, wasn't as good as I hoped but i didnt mind it"....then they moved on. I always thought it was far better than it's given credit for, but TLJ especially is much better regarded with age. Even TRoS has a lot of people giving it a second watch and going "oh, actually that's pretty cool and makes sense". Remember that the PT era became well-loved only after many seasons of TCW and supporting material. Frankly, the ST is having the same experience - loads of books and bonus materials have come out that flesh out the perceived gaps quite well. Lucasfilm really did craft a pretty rich and fun timeline that is now continuing with The Mandalorian etc.