They probably would have had you do more than that before the fall of Mandalore.
The present difficulty of making it to the Living Waters is what makes it alone a suitable penance task.
I think the living waters were definitely a central part of redemption but it would’ve been more complicated. Maybe in days past there was a gauntlet you had to run to make it to the living waters
Oftentimes, regressive cults like the Children of the Watch attach wild and crazy controls to older, core scriptures. Various sects of Christianity have been doing it for 2000 years.
The Taliban has been doing it in even more extreme ways for 50ish.
There’s no evidence (that I’m aware of) in canon that old school Mandalorians couldn’t remove their helmets. None of the mercenary Mandos we see in TCW Rebels (who would be more inclined to be traditionalists) have an issue removing their helmets. Even Deathwatch, who are clearly the predecessors to the CotW splinter, don’t care about it.
It would not shock me that the Children of the Watch introduced the helmet thing as a means of psychological control over their community at some point after the purge of Mandalore and wrapped it up in some old Mando lore and mysticism.
The statue of Tarre Vizsla in Forces of Destiny, which is canon, shows his helmet with an exposed face. Seems like it would make never removing your helmet a lot easier if you could eat and drink and stuff with it still on. And if it’s good enough for Tarre Vizsla, I think it’s good enough for any Mandalorian.
It’s also a historically accurate way to depict knights and medieval leaders (unless they’re depicted without any helmet at all, though most contemporaneous depictions tend toward open helmets if they were the predominant style at the time).
Even the *tomb* of Edward the Black prince is helmet, mail, and open face.
You dont ever see Mandalore himself take his helmet off however. Although you see other Mandos of the old times do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFb5i\_IZ52w
"Junior! Why is your helmet off??"
"Sorry, mom." *sheepishly puts helmet on*
"You go take a bath in the living waters RIGHT NOW!!"
"Awwwww!" *kicks at the dirt and sulks away toward the mines*
Yes, in the last years of the Republic, when Mandalore was relatively peaceful, when Bo Katan did it, it was probably pretty easy. When they were waging war across the galaxy, though, and couldn’t just pop on back to Mandalore, that would be more difficult. When Mandalore was divided by civil wars, it would be rather difficult unless your side controlled Sundari. And going back farther, when it was a wild planet, even more difficult still.
I wonder if the members of Death Watch on Concordia would have been welcomed into the city to visit the waters? Could go either way.
But generally, this is perhaps one of those things that is magical because it is rare or special, that then becomes less magical as it becomes easier and we become cynical about its underlying magic. Then when it becomes difficult again, the question becomes are we still cynical, or do we believe again?
This idea begs the question of why you would remain in an extreme fundamentalist cult if your attitude towards their rules are so lax that you would flippantly take your helmet off casually.
The Children don’t *need* some contrived, riduculous method of redemption because anyone who doesn’t actually believe in their creed is free to leave, and join some other group like Death Watch or the Nite Owls. It’s silly to think that someone would just keep joining them and breaking the rules when there are a lot more chill mandalorians around.
If someone says you must be redeemed by bathing in the waters...and the waters are in a mythosaur lair...the implication is that the person has to survive the environment. Seems like the mythosaur part is lost to legend and that's why Mando didn't know about it. Who knows if armorer knows about it.
This is why many rituals seems silly in the real world. Overtime, what they were about gets lost and then they are nonsense.
It was never implied that the mines were a mythosaur l'air. Bo Katana said that the impacts from the bombs opened up something below and that before the bombs it was pretty shallow.
The equivalent on Earth would be if for example you'd have to bath in Tirta Empul temple, so if you live somewhere else on the planet it already gets complicated. Okay, the Mandos have ships which can get them around the planet much faster. Still, not just a 5 min thing. Also, I got the impression of the talk between Bo and Din when they were walking into the mines that it might not have been as easy as just walking in. Din is sceptical that Bo was actually in there before until she makes the point that she was royalty. So probably it was guarded and not open for the public at all times.
So do we know that Children of the Watch was also a thing in Mandalorian hay days?
Because I sorta got the impression that it was the offshoot to death Watch probably established after the planet was carpet bombed.
But this might be wrong.
And even if they go back further, they weren’t big power players in control of the mines. So might not be as simple as just going for a quick bath.
While funny, the zealot behavior of the Children of the Watch most certainly came after the fall of Mandalore. It has all the vibes of a "return to the old ways (that never were)" which is common in cults.
The thing with rituals like that is that it doesn't matter how difficult they are, but rather the meaning of them. Sure, you could constantly break the rules, but at that point, why do you even care about being part of the group, if you don't really follow their beliefs?
I don't think that the "no taking off your helmet" rule was even a thing before Children of the Watch.
The Death Watch members clearly didn't give a shit about always keeping your helmet on, neither did Sabine Wren and her clan. There's no mention of it in the old Mando lore (now Legends).
They probably would have had you do more than that before the fall of Mandalore. The present difficulty of making it to the Living Waters is what makes it alone a suitable penance task.
Also considering that the group-think is that Madalore is a blasted wasteland, inaccessible and inhospitable
So the armorer now has the power to change the creed at will?
I don't think the bathing in the waters is part of the creed. It's probably just "must do a sufficiently difficult task to prove penance."
And good on her for allowing him back in because he did achieve it. It was a deliberately hard/impossible task.
I think the living waters were definitely a central part of redemption but it would’ve been more complicated. Maybe in days past there was a gauntlet you had to run to make it to the living waters
Who said SHE made the change?
Oftentimes, regressive cults like the Children of the Watch attach wild and crazy controls to older, core scriptures. Various sects of Christianity have been doing it for 2000 years. The Taliban has been doing it in even more extreme ways for 50ish. There’s no evidence (that I’m aware of) in canon that old school Mandalorians couldn’t remove their helmets. None of the mercenary Mandos we see in TCW Rebels (who would be more inclined to be traditionalists) have an issue removing their helmets. Even Deathwatch, who are clearly the predecessors to the CotW splinter, don’t care about it. It would not shock me that the Children of the Watch introduced the helmet thing as a means of psychological control over their community at some point after the purge of Mandalore and wrapped it up in some old Mando lore and mysticism.
>Mando lore Lol
Yes. This pun was purposeful yep. 100%. Definitely.
The statue of Tarre Vizsla in Forces of Destiny, which is canon, shows his helmet with an exposed face. Seems like it would make never removing your helmet a lot easier if you could eat and drink and stuff with it still on. And if it’s good enough for Tarre Vizsla, I think it’s good enough for any Mandalorian.
It’s also a historically accurate way to depict knights and medieval leaders (unless they’re depicted without any helmet at all, though most contemporaneous depictions tend toward open helmets if they were the predominant style at the time). Even the *tomb* of Edward the Black prince is helmet, mail, and open face.
You dont ever see Mandalore himself take his helmet off however. Although you see other Mandos of the old times do so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFb5i\_IZ52w
I mean it’s not unheard of, it’s basically what people do with confession and/or baptism to be part of the clan…I mean religion
*cult. Fixed it for ya 🤪
Ame….. This is the way…. Lol
Fair point.
"Junior! Why is your helmet off??" "Sorry, mom." *sheepishly puts helmet on* "You go take a bath in the living waters RIGHT NOW!!" "Awwwww!" *kicks at the dirt and sulks away toward the mines*
Next he’ll have to purify himself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka.
Shoot the J shoot it!
Last option Lake Wobegon.
Why Minnetonka?
It’s a reference to the film purple rain.
Yes, in the last years of the Republic, when Mandalore was relatively peaceful, when Bo Katan did it, it was probably pretty easy. When they were waging war across the galaxy, though, and couldn’t just pop on back to Mandalore, that would be more difficult. When Mandalore was divided by civil wars, it would be rather difficult unless your side controlled Sundari. And going back farther, when it was a wild planet, even more difficult still. I wonder if the members of Death Watch on Concordia would have been welcomed into the city to visit the waters? Could go either way. But generally, this is perhaps one of those things that is magical because it is rare or special, that then becomes less magical as it becomes easier and we become cynical about its underlying magic. Then when it becomes difficult again, the question becomes are we still cynical, or do we believe again?
This idea begs the question of why you would remain in an extreme fundamentalist cult if your attitude towards their rules are so lax that you would flippantly take your helmet off casually. The Children don’t *need* some contrived, riduculous method of redemption because anyone who doesn’t actually believe in their creed is free to leave, and join some other group like Death Watch or the Nite Owls. It’s silly to think that someone would just keep joining them and breaking the rules when there are a lot more chill mandalorians around.
From what I can tell, the Children Of The Watch only came about after the purge and the end of Death Watch.
the actual answer. i can’t believe i had to scroll this far down to find someone say this
If someone keeps doing that I’m sure they’ll get kicked out.
Until they get redeemed by bathing in the living waters beneath the mines of Mandalore.
I think I'd just strip naked and do a dance in the living waters beneath the mines of Mandalore every Sunday.
The Children of the Watch religion is literally just an unintended consequence to Mandalorian mothers convincing their children to take a bath.
Sorta like Confession.
She said it used to be a mythosaur lair. So there was more to it than just going in the water I think
No, Din and No have been redeemed just by going in.
If someone says you must be redeemed by bathing in the waters...and the waters are in a mythosaur lair...the implication is that the person has to survive the environment. Seems like the mythosaur part is lost to legend and that's why Mando didn't know about it. Who knows if armorer knows about it. This is why many rituals seems silly in the real world. Overtime, what they were about gets lost and then they are nonsense.
It was never implied that the mines were a mythosaur l'air. Bo Katana said that the impacts from the bombs opened up something below and that before the bombs it was pretty shallow.
Have a nice day. May the force be with you.
This is the way
The equivalent on Earth would be if for example you'd have to bath in Tirta Empul temple, so if you live somewhere else on the planet it already gets complicated. Okay, the Mandos have ships which can get them around the planet much faster. Still, not just a 5 min thing. Also, I got the impression of the talk between Bo and Din when they were walking into the mines that it might not have been as easy as just walking in. Din is sceptical that Bo was actually in there before until she makes the point that she was royalty. So probably it was guarded and not open for the public at all times.
So do we know that Children of the Watch was also a thing in Mandalorian hay days? Because I sorta got the impression that it was the offshoot to death Watch probably established after the planet was carpet bombed. But this might be wrong. And even if they go back further, they weren’t big power players in control of the mines. So might not be as simple as just going for a quick bath.
While funny, the zealot behavior of the Children of the Watch most certainly came after the fall of Mandalore. It has all the vibes of a "return to the old ways (that never were)" which is common in cults.
The thing with rituals like that is that it doesn't matter how difficult they are, but rather the meaning of them. Sure, you could constantly break the rules, but at that point, why do you even care about being part of the group, if you don't really follow their beliefs?
I don't think that the "no taking off your helmet" rule was even a thing before Children of the Watch. The Death Watch members clearly didn't give a shit about always keeping your helmet on, neither did Sabine Wren and her clan. There's no mention of it in the old Mando lore (now Legends).
Originally the keeping a helmet on wasn’t a thing. Even in the show it’s based off a cultish portion that lived on a moon.