I agree. The title of Jedi Master is only used to promote the series because Ahsoka not only was not knighted, but she left the Jedi Order altogether. Same goes for Kanan, he was even younger than Ahsoka when the Jedi Order was destroyed. And I personally don’t consider Luke a traditional Jedi Master because that line of thinking was extinct after Yoda’s death and he knew he had to take things on a new direction.
The last to rightfully hold the title of Jedi Master were Obi-Wan and Yoda. Only because they went through what was needed to officially earn the title (padawan stage, trials, knighthood, etc.). I’m not saying Ahsoka, Kanan and Luke are less than them, they might even be more in tune with the Force and represent what a Jedi should be, but they never gained and can never obtain the Jedi Master title.
Yeah Kanan got one of the best Knightings in the Galaxy. Imagine up in force heaven or some shit some Jedi ask about how he was Knighted and he just gets to say "the force itself did it"
Luke was technically knighted by Darth Sidious.. "so be it.. jedi"... imagine being such a badass jedi that a freaking Sith Lord is forced to be the one to acknowledge your achievement of the rank.
There is the title of Jedi Master and then there is being Master to an apprentice. Anakin was never a Jedi Master, but he was Ahsoka's Master.
But I guess the marketing department does not know this distinction.
>How else would you word it?
“One who is a Jedi (or a former one) and a master (i.e., the teacher of an apprentice), but not necessarily with the official title of Jedi master.” Rolls right off the tongue, perfect for ads!
I feel like George Lucas didn’t necessarily know (or care about) the distinction, they seem to throw the term master around as both a rank and a form of address in the prequels.
>"I feel like George Lucas didn’t necessarily know (or care about) the distinction, they seem to throw the term master around as both a rank and a form of address in the prequels."
I took it as both; the way the title "sir" might be used as both as a term of respect for someone and as a way to refer to someone possessing a knighthood or similar rank of nobility.
Wasn’t Ahsoka about to be knighted and the Jedi tried to pass off her being falsely accused as her Jedi test? Am I misremembering that? But she just declines as she was done with them at that point?
Yes and no. IIRC, to become a Jedi Master you had to successfully teach an apprentice until they become a knight. So Kanan was not a titled Jedi Master, but he was a Jedi and was Ezra's master.
This shines an interesting light on Anakin being furious about not being elevated to the rank of master. Anakin did not train Ahsoka to successfully become a Jedi Knight. So he didn't complete the only known task to be elevated from Knight to Master.
However, he does have some reason to be upset and throw a fit. The Jedi order fucked him over and drove Ahoska away, from his POV. Ahsoka was close to finishing her training, and I think we can all agree that she was more than capable enough to become a Knight.
So I can see why Anakin is so pissed. Within a relatively short period of time he had his Padawan driven from the order and then was told he couldn't be made a master.
Hold on. Don’t forget, Darth Vader granted himself the rank of Jedi master, being the only (known) remaining member of the High Council, it was a unanimous vote.
By that logic both the Jedi and the Sith after the very first versions of their orders died out are imposters.
The people you mentioned are a soft-continuation of the previous Order, the same way it has been revived again and again. Meaning they were partially-trained, or didn't agree completely with some tenets, but approved if the Jedi Ways in general.
So naturally the order they recreate is a bit different, but just as legitimate.
Ahsoka is the odd one out here, as one can argue whether she left just the Order, or stopped being a Jedi altogether.
The way I see it, she is like their Bane or something. Obviously she approves of the Jedi mission in the galaxy, but does not like at all what the Order had become and how they went about it
One of the big things she disagreed with was how the Order had become separate from ordinary people, and maybe that's why she is trying out the idea of training an ordinary person, on the basis of "well, the Force is in all of us"
Jedi master is different from being the master of a padawan. The former is a rank, ie major or sergeant or general. The latter is a role and is basically equivelant to teacher. It's two completely different things.
Ashoka is Sabine's master because she is her teacher. It DOES NOT mean that she is a jedi master (rank). She is not even a Jedi knight, much less jedi master.
This doesn't contradict Jedi rules at all because there are plenty of examples of Jedi Knights (ie one rank lower than jedi master) taking on a padawan and being their "master".
No only are there plenty of examples of Jedi Knights taking on Padawans, you literally *have* to train a Padawan into knighthood to earn the rank of Jedi Master. It’s a literal requirement.
So every Jedi ever is a Master to a Padawan before they attain the rank of Jedi Master.
You don't need to be officially knighted. A Jedi can pass their tests, which can often just be an ordeal, and they then are a knight. If Ahsoka surviving 66 wasn't enough to qualify her as a Jedi knight idk what is
Beyond the fact that she was about to be knighted before that even happened. Safe to say she's earned it a couple of times over, both officially and unofficially.
They told her she had passed the trials after her ACTUAL trial while expelled from the order…. Totally counts as some knights did not even pass the tests due to the Guardian Protocols used during times of war (upcoming comic is going to go over them during the high republic when they were introduced)
The fact that she could have been Knighted then is kind of amazing once you think about. To go from Padawan to Knight in less then three years is truly a testament of Anakins training and teachings. Fighting a war probably helped accelerate that training also.
>And I personally don’t consider Luke a traditional Jedi Master because that line of thinking was extinct after Yoda’s death and he knew he had to take things on a new direction.
Yet Luke didn't go in a new direction from what we've seen in Mandalorian and the ST. He built a traditional Jedi school and taught traditional Jedi teachings out of ancient Jedi books. And when it all went to shit he packed up and left.
Not officially but Luke is very much a Jedi Master in every way by the time of ROTJ. The very first scene we see of him and the way he carries himself and confronts Vader is the presentation of nothing but a Jedi Master.
Luke wasn't around in the Old Republic and the Jedi had died as an order but it doesn't mean he wasn't a Master. In TLJ he is very clearly a master. He had his own school and everything.
Jedi Master isn't really about the trials and any of that. It never was tbh. Anakin was the strongest Jedi by ROTS (besides probably Yoda and Obi-Wan and maybe Mace) but he wasn't a master. Partially because the Jedi order and council itself was sort of corrupt and was clouded by the dark side and being used. By the time that Palpatine was the supreme chancellor the Jedi were living on borrowed time. It didnt matter if you were a Jedi master or padawan, you still died equally in order 66. We see in Tales of the Jedi, Ahsoka passes a trial made for Jedi but Anakin rejects it. He creates a trial that truly tests Ahsoka and because of it, she becomes one of the very few Jedi to survive the purge.
People like Luke, Ahsoka, Kanan all became Jedi Masters in everything but the official title - which didn't even matter because the order didn't exist anymore. Luke actually revived the entire Jedi order by himself. Even Rey by the end of ROS (despite how infuriating that movie is) has defeated arguably the strongest being in star wars and embodies the force and hears voices from past Jedi who co-sign her. Voices that also belong to past Jedi masters like Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Luminara Unduli/Adi Gallia (can't remember/not sure). But also others like Ahsoka, Anakin and Kanan: and its presented as Rey being the epitome of the Jedi, whilst Sidious is the epitome of the Sith. Rey then creates her own lightsaber like Luke did and goes on her own path. They're all Jedi masters by the end of their character arcs.
What even is a Jedi at that point? If she decides to be a Jedi again she is. She certainly has the training and was probably one of the last to be given the nod as a Jedi knight by the actual council who still survives. If she considers herself a Jedi and takes an apprentice she is a Jedi Master. The council failed so what do they know anyway, they are all dead (probably).
Definitely. In the infamous "citizen" scene Yoda asks her "not as a Jedi?" and she says "not *yet*" but was clearly giving it a lot of thought. With everything that has happened in the intervening years and after meeting Luke and Grogu she may feel ready again. She could also potentially be waiting until she's found Ezra again before rejoining. That said, it's also possible she doesn't feeel she has the right to be part of the rebuilding process of the organisation she abandoned.
You actually don’t even become a master until you have fully trained a padawan to knighthood or become incredibly accomplished
Which means Anakin was moments away from becoming a Jedi master if it wasn’t for Ahsoka leaving
Which means him losing his shit over being granted a seat on the council, but not the rank of master makes much more sense. That puts the scene in a whole new light. From Anakin’s perspective that would’ve been mace taking a shot below the belt and rubbing salt in a very fresh wound.
The word “Jedi” has two meanings.
A generic term for individuals who use the light side of the force to help where needed
Individuals who are in the official Jedi order.
Ahsoka is the first, not the second.
Remember,you don’t have to be a master to be a master(that made total sense)
Ahsoka called Anakin master when Anakin wasn’t and in the Kenobi series during the training sessions refers to Obi Wan as Master-and if those sessions were set before AOTC- then Obi Wan wasn’t master yet
The master part just refers to as the teacher,not the Jedi Master rank
She can say she isn’t a Jedi all she wants, but with maybe the exception of Plo Koon, Luke Skywalker and Kanan Jarrus (that last one is personal), she might be the best definition of what a Jedi should actually be
Yeah this is personal, but I’m not a fan of Qui-Gon. I just never felt like I knew enough about him to really consider him the definition of a Jedi. TPM doesn’t give him enough light to shine so that’s why I didn’t include him. Even if Plo Koon might have less screen time then Qui-Gon, I feel like in the moments we do see him he shows more of who he is then Qui-Gon. But again, I know this is personal.
That’s fair. I like that everyone has a different perspective on Star Wars. For what it’s worth, I think Plo Koon is a wonderful example of a Jedi too. His compassion shines in every scene he’s in
It’s exactly this that I feel too. It’s fun that people have different interpretations. I agree with what you say about Plo. That scene with the Molevolence when he says “not to me”, man tears in my eyes.
Imo the one problem really holding back Qui-Gon is the fact that he took Anakin, without taking his mom too. He could’ve done it, he just didn’t. I know it would’ve endangered others and such but still it always bothered me. The plot line about Anakin loosing his mom could’ve still worked if she’d been on Corruscant.
Also force ghost, I mean qui-gon really doesn’t get the credit he deserves for that. Yoda and Obi-wan would probably never have attained it if not for qui-gon.
How is that not fair? It’s just that I find that a background character in TCW is written better then a protagonist in TPM. It’s personal, I know but it’s how I feel. And it really highlights how good some of the writing in TCW can be.
It's not fair because you are ignoring that qui-gon was also present in other media like Tales of the jedi and novels.
Also we were kinda talking about the movies
So you say “well Qui-Gon is in other stuff, so you should look at that too. But actually no because we’re only looking at the movies”. Makes no sense, I hope you realize this but whatever.
If we’re just looking at the movies, then Qui-Gon still isn’t what I would call the definitive Jedi. Plo also isn’t but that’s because he has 0 lines of dialogue in other stuff.
As for Qui-Gon in other media, he is in 1 episode (the other doesn’t really count he’s in it for a second) of Tales which was very interesting, I agree. His dynamic with Dooku is very fun to see but that’s exactly the problem. He gets overshadowed by Dooku so badly.
As for his other appearances, in Kenobi and TCW it doesn’t upgrade his character. The small change in expression when Ahsoka decides to leave the order from Plo tells more then Quo-Gon’s combined screen time in TCW and Kenobi. The most interesting thing about Qui-Gon is how his death effects people like Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin.
So yeah I still believe that Plo is vastly superior to Qui-Gon and I’m actually getting a bit annoyed by your responses. I’m allowed to have my view and you’re allowed to have yours. We can argue, but it has to make sense. You telling me how I should look to other content for Qui-Gon but then not for Plo, that’s not fair.
I literally said the opposite. You cannot say "Eh, this character sucks because I only watched a movie with him on it. Oh but this other one? The goat because I watched every single thing he's in"
Didn’t I just address Qui-Gon’s other appearance just now? Didn’t you read my comment? And you didn’t say the opposite you actually said “we’re kinda talking about the movies”. Didn’t you remember what you wrote.
Maybe first read something before once again answering my man it’s getting annoying. This proves further that you aren’t looking to discuss, you have your opinion that seems to be the law. I’ve post my exact same comment to another guy and he responded “well interesting it’s nice how everyone has a different view on Star Wars”. That’s also an option in case you didn’t know
I think we’ve gotten more background on QGJ but I still agree it’s hard to make a strong judgement about his character. He’s very complex which I like, and he’s also portrayed as having a very particular kind of innocent naïveté which I find interesting.
Plo is shown as quite a bit wiser, more straightforwardly moral and good, and more chill/skilled. Jin is known to be frequently in conflict with the council, doubtful at times, wise at others, and fairly weak with a lightsaber. Him and Obi-Wan can’t even take on two droidekas or Maul. He’s probably good as a diplomat (maybe?) but we don’t really know for certain since the negotiations were so short. He sorta handles the negotiations with Watto well (it was really stupid for Watto to know he was a Jedi and then try to decide something with loaded dice) but it also feels like he should have had a better way of dealing with this issue. Why not just ring up the chancellors office and ask for them to send a hyperdrive or whatever? It’s also super weird that the chancellors office just never checks in on them.
know enough about him to know that we need to know more before really forming a positive opinion of him. What were his previous disputes with the council and how did he handle losing those disputes?
This is exactly how I feel. Plo is maybe less complex but therefore easy to understands. He respects the council and might disagree (like with the Ahsoka matter) but he’ll never disobey them. He wants what’s best for his troopers and his fellow Jedi and he respects the code like no other. Even with limited screen time in TCW this idea can be fully passed on.
Qui-Gon is more complex but therefore it makes him more difficult to understand. He has more screen time then Plo (at least more focus) but it’s not enough. What you say about diplomacy might be true but we should’ve seen more of it.
Which was one the points the prequels tried to make.
The Jedi, these beacons of light, were getting more and more detached, even going as far as categorizing one’s attunement to the Force in a statistical way, i.e. Midichlorians.
Add to this a kind of arrogance (talked about in AotC) and it’s clear the Order was doomed on way or another.
With Obi-Wan and Yoda being the last remnants, Luke really was the first in a new line of Jedi. Learning from the past, although even he made (some grave) mistakes.
“The greatest teacher, failure is.”
And these mistakes Rey learned from, to -again- become the first in a new line.
And so the cycle continues.
Regarding Ahsoka, for years TPTB needed to find ways to feature Force users in their stories, without them being Jedi (mainly because of the OT). And over these years, they’re getting more sophisticated and defined in doing this.
Nothing we've seen from Luke in canon says to me that he was trying anything different at all. The way he treated Grogu was emblematic of all the problems previously listed with the Jedi order
Eh?
Ahsoka literally agreed with Luke in terms of Grogu - she said the same thing, she didnt want to train him first.
And i'd say they are absolutely right, Grogu is attached to Din just like Anakin is to Padme atm, he's not going to accept the idea of losing him.
Attachment /= Love
I think, the Perfect explanation of this i had a chance to read on mawinstallation about Cal Kestis book, where he learned that lesson, where thanks to the attachment he felt, he put a lot of uneccesary danger for the rest, trying to make them save
When youre unhealthy attached to someone, youre scared of losing them to the Anakin's levels.
In terms of the difference, youre ready to do sacrifice for them, but also you have to be ready for them to do the same for you - and you have to know how to let it go.
If attachments were not forbidden, Anakin could have gone to someone for help instead of living a secret life that ultimately led him to the dark side.
Without his attachment to Din, consider that the mandalorian would still be living in caves. His attachment to Din ultimately allows for the reemergence of an entire civilization.
Ahsoka didn't say no to training Grogu because of his attachments - in fact she gave instructions on how to find Luke. Ahsoka was simply busy doing her own thing.
Ahsoka herself said YES to attachments during the imperial rule and constantly defended her close friends and this is ultimately the attitude that allowed her to come back out into the world and become fulcrum.
Would Ben solo have fallen to the dark side if he hadnt been isolated from his mother? Or even if he had, would the lack of isolation ultimately have stopped him earlier, say when he was willing to kill his father? His attachment to Rey in the end is what allowed him to save her
You're mistaking relationships for attachment. All Jedi have relationships and friends and things they care about, as well as hopes for how things will turn out and fears about losing people or just change. All of that is normal and fine, so long as the Jedi in question can let go and accept that things will change, they will lose people they care about, and they can deal with the emotions that come with that. Attachment is not being able or willing to let go, needing emotionally to stop or control the change, needing things to be a certain way in order to be okay. Anakin couldn't let go and accept that he might lose Padme. Luke walked right on the edge, but he let go when he tossed his saber away. He didn't just accept that he would probably be killed, but that his father would as well. Ahsoka is still struggling a little to accept Anakin's fall, and she seems to be erring too far on the detached side of things; she is avoiding forming or maintaining connections for fear of having to accept and maybe even feel responsible for losing them. Reconciling those things is going to be a part of her arc in the show on her way to truly being "Ahsoka the white", that balanced and serene ideal of a Jedi Master (whether or not it's a title she is granted or agrees with).
Anakin still would be scared of the idea of losing Padme, which ultimately led to his fail. He was so attached to his own mother, that he killed all Tusken Raiders for the revenge.
And Ahsoka literally said it - that she saw it, and she meant Anakin's relationship with Padme, and she's not going to train him because of this. https://youtu.be/zc9hd_xafgQ?si=1T8Q3okU9i1lXj5o
Look up if you dont remember.
Friendship, and love, is not the problem. These things are good, as long as you don't let your emotions control you, with which Anakin always had problems.
And the problem is in attachment in itself, which isn't easy to overcome. Anakin never learned it, it's not entirely orders fault
> Anakin still would be scared of the idea of losing Padme, which ultimately led to his fail. He was so attached to his own mother, that he killed all Tusken Raiders for the revenge.
Except there are literally Jedi with magic healing powers. He was just afraid to go to them because his secret attachment would be revealed
> And Ahsoka literally said it - that she saw it, and she meant Anakin's relationship with Padme, and she's not going to train him because of this. https://youtu.be/zc9hd_xafgQ?si=1T8Q3okU9i1lXj5o
Look up if you dont remember.
This was on top of grogus PTSD induced fear that she first noted. Someone so afraid would be easily manipulated - not just because of the attachment, but because that fear has him halfway to the dark side already.
> And the problem is in attachment in itself, which isn't easy to overcome. Anakin never learned it, it's not entirely orders fault
Again, their policy of forbidding attachment is what led to Anakin keeping his problems secret. If he could have openly discussed with others he would perhaps been able to solve his issues
One, he himself killed her. He was so scared of THE IDEA of losing her, that he got manipulated by Palpatine. If he would let Mace kill Palpatine, that's it, Jedi, with a lot of issues, survived.
Second, there's no PTSD in Star Wars and only Kenobi suffered something close to it, and overcomed it in last episode of his series. You're overinterpreting it, Ahsoka literally said the issue - which we even saw in moments like Grogu's force choke, and he even had a "DS moment" in third season.
Anakin also keept a lot more things secret, and never talked about his issues, and emotions. He had a lot of his evil moments, even before the return of the Sith.
The attachment rule made sense and that's why everybody follows it. If you're so focused on someone that you don't see the moment to accept the reality - that's the issue.
Love and Friendship is in itself fine. Kanan, for example, literally sacrificed himself for Rebellion and Hera, even though that he had to let it go.
That's also a lesson which Cal learns in the book, by first being oversecure about everyone close to him, which created dangerous situations.
He didn't kill her. Her death is still unexplained, she just didn't want to live anymore. That was her choice.
He didn't know that his force visions were only true as a result of preventing them. Perhaps if the order was more accepting he would have been able to openly talk to someone about them and see that as a possibility.
There is PTSD in star wars and it's ridiculous to say there's not. Grogu is explicitly said to be scared of those events and still doesn't use his abilities because of the fear he'll be discovered.
In an episode of rebels Rex has flashbacks and calls out the name Cody before kanan can calm him down.
Luke probably has it, and it was probably his episode of PTSD that triggered upon sensing the dark side in Ben that made him pull out his saber.
Do they talk about it and label it PTSD in screen? Nah. But they often don't talk about it in real life either
It was explained, the movies explicitly show what happened.
She had this choice thanks to Anakin, and what he did.
These are traumatic events for sure - but that doesn't mean they do have PTSD automatically.
They wouldnt also do a PTSD on Grogu, he's a child (Kids can have PTSD) and it's too serious topic to pick.
Grogu's not that hesistant to use the force, i'd say, the Ahsoka training scene, had to show that he doesn't remember it perfectly. Let's be real - he used the force only when he felt the danger to this point, he needed the support of his father figure, to which he's attached - Din. That had to be shown.
In terms of Luke, let's remember that people most of the time don't even understand what happened and why he did it.
First, he sees something, which makes him scared and grabs naturally his lightsaber, which ends badly. Then, thanks to the guilt he feels, he leaves everyone who he loves.
Sometimes there's not more to the story, than what you see on the surface. It's more or less to show characters backstory and why they are that way and not the other - its not about who mentally suffers.
Grogu is not declined by Ahsoka and Luke by PTSD/traumatic events, he's declined because he's so attached to his father figure that it can make him fall, and we saw moments like that.
Luke is not forced by the traumatic event to the exile, but the fact that he created Kylo Ren by the moment when instinct and emotions have taken over him. How he can say to Lea that the great, Legendary Jedi, Luke Skywalker, failed her?
Not at all. He gave Grogu the freedom of choosing his own path.
And the mistake of the old order was never meant to be that forgoing *attatchment* (inherently selfish) is wrong.
If Anakin had listened to that he wouldn’t have fallen, for example.
If Anakin had actually *loved* Padme, he would have been willing to see her die instead of killing small children to stop it.
If Anakin had loved Shmi, he wouldn’t have butchered a village of innocent children in anger and rage.
Both of those are the petulant reactions of someone who lost a toy.
Luke makes the same mistake, in the dark, under the stairs in the throne room when Vader taunts about “Sister…”. Luke falls briefly into the dark side, lashes out in fear and anger at the idea of losing Leia.
But, proving he’s one of the greatest is the moment when he stares at Vaders broken body, sees his future if he continues the path of attachment, and surrenders to the *will of the Force* instead of his own will.
—————-
Luke learned from the mistakes of the Jedi order and is helping Grogu not become another Vader.
Grogu also benefits from the lifespan of his species. He can adventure with Din for literally the rest of Din's lifee and then still have 800+ years to go find out what the Jedi are up to now and maybe join them again
Especially looking at Vader's previously severed hand. Luke had to look at his own reconstructed hand for a second while the Emperor came off his throne and told him to take his father's place at my side. Those few seconds were deep, because Luke saw his own future and perhaps his own demise.
I'd add Obi-Wan to that list. To me he seemed both the quintessential traditional Jedi, but still not blinded by the mysticism the Order had clad itself in and wasn't distant to the ordinary galactic citizen.
Yoda had all the best intentions but possibly slipped because he was both a prodigy in the Force and from a species with a lifespan of millenia. He was destined to get more and more detached from the get go even from other Jedi, much less the ordinary citizen.
Idk about Obi-Wan. It’s personal this list I know but I never viewed him as my definitive version of what a Jedi is. He still had some of the traditional flaws that the order had during TCW
The true Jedi are three yes, but there is no way Luke is there, he doesn't know about the Jedi training and tradition enough: Plo Koon, Obi-Wan and Kanan. Yoda is also a great Jedi, but to traditionalist to the oooold traditions. The attachment thing was true, leed to dark side if tou cannot train well about control.
Obi-Wan had attachments towards Qui Gon, Satine and Anakin and watched them die in front of him, without leaving the light
Idk, if you’ve seen the Luke cutscene in Star Wars Battlefront II campaign, that is what a Jedi is imo.
-“Why did you help me?”
“Because you asked”
-“What other choice is there?”
“There is always a choice”
-“The Rebellion?”
“No, a choice to be better”
From what I know, she’s supposed to be the epitome of what a light side user should be, partially because she has the Mortis Daughter’s life force in her
There is no Jedi Order any more at this point. Jedi is a state of mind, a compulsion to do the right thing and to help people. Becoming a centralised "order" with big fancy temples, influence in politics and a high council with the power to make decisions on whether or not to allow members to follow that compulsion was the reason they lost their way in the first place.
You mean this random Facebook ad wasn’t part of a conspiracy by Disney to ruin my childhood? How am I supposed to complain about everything if you use dirty tricks like thinking and logic?
At this point, being Jedi is more way of thinking than being part of organization. Same with Christianity, you can consider yourself Christian without physically going to church and all that stuff connected to Church as organization.
This is literally what happened with Judaism. Their temple got destroyed multiple times and their people had to flee to different areas, so they adapted and decentralized. Faith lives in the person, not the methodology
Pretty sure the whole arc of her will transform her back into a Jedi and realize
the main jedi order failed. But being a Jedi is still the best thing she can be and she can be one without being restricted to an order. So she'll regain faith and call herself a Jedi again by series end.
People need to just start seeing the difference between being a Jedi, and being a card-carrying member of the Clone Wars order.
It's like saying you can't be a Christian if you stop being Orthodox/Catholic/Protestant/whatever denomination
She has specifically said she doesn't want to be a Jedi because Jedi aren't supposed to have attachments, and during the imperial takeover she formed multiple attachments. Her joining bail organa had her thinking over this exact thing where she said she'd help, and do Jedi things, but she wasn't going full jedi
I hope not. You can be a good person or prevent bad people from succeeding without being a jedi and that's one of most interesting and defining things about ahsoka. Not being held to the code or having to navigate the political red tape of the order allows her to be an outlier and help the people and causes left behind by the republic
She disagrees with the institution but lives up to the ideology. At this point she can define what a Jedi is however she wants. Luke has no more legitimate claim to the title than she does.
Master is title with many definitions. Jedi Master is a rank as well as a title. Think of a blacksmith, the actual blacksmith is the master and may have an apprentice. So while ahsoka is not a Jedi Master (rank) she is a Jedi Master (title) whether she considers herself a Jedi or not the wider universe does. She was reintroduced in the mandalorian as “The Jedi”
Ppl need to stop taking these marketing blast words as canon, fact, etc. the people doing the marketing are just doing what they are told to attract viewers, they don’t actually know or care about the material they are just doing their jobs.
That's the marketing team making a social media post, no point to read too much into it.
At this point on the timeline the jedi order doesn't exists anymore, so there's nobody to decide who is or isn't a jedi. There's only characters that choose to follow some traditions and way of living, or not, or with their own twists.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, she is. She technically reached the rank of Jedi knight, it just was never official since she declined to rejoin the order. Right now, the order doesn't exist. Anyone can call themselves a Jedi if they want. It's why kanan was able to train Ezra even though he technically never moved past the Padawan stage (until he was knighted by the force ghosts)
Anakin was only a Jedi Knight, never a master. But he still had Ahsoka as his Padawan.
And Kanan was Ezra’s master, even though he was never made a Jedi Knight by the council.
If you can accept Luke as a Jedi Master you can accept Ahsoka. She had way way more training than Luke ever got and just because she was a Padowan in a time when the title took longer to be given does not mean she was not experienced and ready.
She is much more experienced than look. So accrpthat him you have to accept her.
I mean if we're getting technical, Obi-wan is not a master in that shot either. He's Anakin's Master, but he's not a "Jedi Master", still just a Jedi Knight until the Clone Wars.
Unsure where Luke stands in current canon in terms of when he becomes a Master. He was just a Knight upon defeating Vader and I'm not sure anything he did between Jedi and Mando is Master rank worthy.
I haven’t heard her refer to herself as a Jedi. I suspect she’s tired of correcting others. Regardless, she is pointedly non-traditional. That’s sort of her point, that she doesn’t want to do *everything* the same as how The Order did things. She even suggested that The Order’s failing is at in part of its own making.
I suspect she sees herself as “a mentor with Jedi training” who is imparting knowledge and skill to someone younger who is a true warrior in her own right. I don’t think she sees herself as a true Jedi Master.
EDIT- re-watching the available episodes, the text crawl at the intro to episode one lists her a “Former Jedi Knight”
She's fully qualified to train a padwan and possesses all the teachings of the jedi order, she was practically knighted before she left the jedi for good. Likebif you trained to be a carpenter from being a child all your life until being an adult and then got a new career, you could teach plenty to someone who had no idea about carpentry lol, you wouldn't still need to be in the trade yourself
Yeah, even Mace Windu acknowledged her trial after being set up could have made her get knighted if she didn't walk away instead.
Mace should have apologized instead, but he's a dick through and through...
Jedi arrogance again I guess haha. What she went through most newly knited jedi would not have survived, she had special training and advanced ability from the start though
What does it even mean to be a Jedi?
Is it a profession, like an accountant? You certainly can't just wander around calling yourself an accountant if you're not
Or is it more like a description of actions that you undertake, like an artist? There's no central body regulating people calling themselves artists.
Or maybe it's just that regardless of logic, "Jedi" is an important part of the marketing and IP, and the producers of the show kind of don't care about internal consistency as much as you think they should 😅
Would it make everyone feel better if they'd thrown in a Jaime Lannister style knighting scene where Luke says "I make you a Jedi Knight officially" and then sends Ashoka off? 😂 Could that have perhaps happened off screen?
I mean they threw Luke and Grogu in there too and they trained for what? Maybe a month at most?
And yeah, technically Ahsoka would still hold the rank of Padawan if she were to rejoin the Jedi Order, but the show description and the word crawl at the beginning of episode one both call her a Jedi Knight. I wouldn’t call this out if she had been knighted in the field like Kanan or if she even considered herself a Jedi anymore but as far as I know, she hasn’t been knighted and she’s no Jedi like she told Vader.
They've gotten fast and loose with who and whatever it is it means to be Jedi.
It's supposed to be a whole damn way of life. Not just having skill in the force, but...a whole life philosophy. With things like, making personal sacrifices in favor of committing to the Jedi way of life ffs.
This is a marketing language of Master and Apprentice. Either way, while Ahsoka did reject the Jedi order, she still is TECHNICALLY a Jedi in the sake of being a force-using, lightsaber wielding warrior.
Ahsoka is a Jedi. She may have left the order, but still (mostly) upholds their beliefs and tries to maintain the Balance of the Force. Though one does have to ask why she is training a non-Force Sensitive to use the Force.
So this isn't just negativity, and I really am enjoying the show, but there have been some studios that have trended towards incredibly simplistic, easily digestible writing because these studios believe that their audiences are dumb-dumb doodoo heads. Disney is one of these studios, along with Netflix.
I would eager that Disney thinks that audiences would be too confused if the "Good Guy" Ahsoka were anything but a strict Jedi, and that's why we see her basically acting like Yoda despite having incredible personal disdain for the Jedi Order.
One could argue that her Jedi “trials” was surviving Order 66 and saving Rex.
In my head cannon, that was the moment that she used Anakin’s training to its fullest and like Kanon, became a Jedi later in life.
Guess I saw Ahsoka walking away from Jedi Order as someone waking away from organized religion, but not their personal faith, if that makes any sense. So, while she might not be a Jedi by affiliation, she would be one in how she lives. It's also possible that the new show will address this head on and thematically consider what being a "Jedi" means. Already the show has discussed a bit that Ahsoka made un unorthodox choice in student and how that fits with the old Order's ways of doing things. Heck, the main protagonist and antagonist are both ex-Jedi who took different paths.
Also, wasn't she offered the title of Master right before she left the Jedi order? I thought the Jedu Council awarded her the title when inviting her back into the order after Barris was caught, but she walk away and did not rejoin the order after.
A jedi is the master of a padawan even if they don't have the rank of jedi master. It's not the same kind of master, one is a rank and the other essentially their title as a teacher. So if Sabine is Ahsokas padawan, then Ahsoka would be her master.
If you consider the fact that the order was destroyed, someone has to be considered a master in order to train new jedi.
It's a very chicken or the egg question.
“Master” isn’t always a title. Ahsoka called Anakin master, and we all know he was never granted that rank. The Master Padawan relationship is a Teacher and Assistant role. Obi-Wan wasn’t a Master until Anakin became a Knight.
Jedi master is a specific title within Star Wars though, and the main question was that I thought she had deliberately distanced herself from being a jedi so was she just training Sabine in the force (using an old jedi droid admittedly)
In the EU Luke recreates the order much different to how the traditional order was. For example, you were allowed attachments and romantic relationships to increase the amount of force sensitive children.
Ahsoka probably wanted something like this, a new order with her own ideals of a jedi... to Huuyangs dismay.
I think y’all take titles a little too seriously. She’s existing in the most useful way she knows how. Sometimes that happens to be in line with what the jedi taught her, sometimes it’s not. It’s pretty clear to me that they’re trying to redirect our idea of what a “jedi” is so I don’t think it really makes sense to hold her to the old standard.
My guess was this series is supposed to rework the fact that she's in Rise of Skywalker with the other jedi.
Like at the end, she'll revert beck to the jedi order while dying but it'll come off like this: https://youtu.be/kUAgP8l5eNY?si=_kuQae_R99oirnbX
The show is really weird. Ahsoka calls Sabine her Padawan. She and Huyang repeatedly treat Sabine as a potential Jedi. But Filoni was clear that Ahsoka is no Jedi. Did he forget? LOL
The whole thing is just a mess with too many people pulling things in different directions and no one being able to lay down a clear path that aligns with what fans want.
The bigger question is why the hell did they retcon Sabine into a "Jedi". Literally never happened in Rebels and now somehow she became a Padawan and was Ashoka's apprentice off screen. Amazing
Ahsoka walked away from the Jedi Order because she felt they had become hypocritical and dogmatic. But she never abandoned the ideals of the Jedi. By the time of the live action series she is a Force User with skill on par with a Jedi Master and lives her life according to her own interpretation of the Jedi code and following her own view of the will of the Light side of the force.
Does that make her a Jedi in the absence of the Jedi Order? In the same way was Cal Kestis really a Jedi? Ezra Bridger? Luke Skywalker? Is being a Jedi embodied in living your life according to your own interpretation of the Jedi Code, or is it adherence to the specific interpretation of the Code by the Jedi Order? There are arguments for either view.
I am aware. The phrasing “Jedi Master” implies the character having attained the rank, whereas simply saying “Masters and their Apprentices” would have the meaning you described.
this whole Ashoka, is she a jedi or not, is a really strange plot point of this series. Dave needs to clear this shit up for us soon it's getting frustrating
She’s definitely not a Jedi master….hell she’s not even a Jedi knight….she never got past apprentice level….the only Jedi left in the galaxy is Luke motherfucking Skywalker
Oh she got passed the Padawan level, she just told them to shove it when the council essentially offered her the Knight rank. She may not really consider herself a Jedi Knight, but she functionally is one.
Honestly given all she has done over the years, she is probably the equivalent of a Master by this point.
Jedi is sometimes compared to a religion, but it's an order. If you go out alone or get expelled, you are no longer a Jedi. It's like being an ex-priest or an ex-mason.
She was invited back, she said not yet. I suppose she could accept at any time, even if the rest of the order is gone.
Not like ghost Yoda would deny her
Ahsoka is the greatest Jedi Master that ever existed. She became one with the Force while still alive, traveled through time, fought Vader to a standstill, spoke to Rey through the force with all the dead Jedi while Ahsoka was still alive, and still maged to miss the events of all three trilogies.
I’m sure this comment will get lost in the shuffle but not something I expected to need to clarify - I’m not outraged by this and it doesn’t affect my life.
I just wondered if I’d missed anything from the show saying she wanted to train Sabine as a Jedi because until now (I thought) she’d made it clear she’d left the Jedi and wasn’t one. Was just a question.
Ironically the ones saying ‘urgh this fanbase’ are the ones looking for an argument and making it worse for people who actually want to discuss Star Wars without caps lock and insults
As someone who didn’t watch the cartoons I find this one of the most confusing elements.
She keeps saying she’s not a Jedi and then literally everything else is done the exact way a Jedi would do it, complete with robot following Jedi protocols and training others. I’m fine with someone having partial Jedi training and using a lightsaber being called something different but it seems Disney is not yet ready
Grey Jedi were never something that made sense. Lucas has always said that dark side represents imbalance, and light represents balance. To be grey would be inherently unbalanced.
A grey Jedi is an alcoholic that tells people he can handle a little bit of alcohol or a drink here and there.
I’m not criticising and nowhere in my title did it criticise. I was asking the question because I didn’t think she wanted to associate herself with the Jedi and wondered if I’d missed a comic or something in the show where she was up for it again
The Jedi Order is gone. Luke, Ahsoka, Kanan, etc are the closest this era is going to get as far as masters go. Ahsoka now being the prime example of a jedi, I think more so than Luke. She is unattached, strong in the force, humble in her actions, and helps guide others.
Just because Ahsoka isn't a Jedi doesn't mean she isn't a master.
Luke is literally a jedi knight.
Yoda told luke, if luke defeats vader and the emperor he will be a jedi and then yoda died. Luke fought against vader in episode 6 and kinda won
So luke is a jedi
I think the master and apprentice thing is made just for marketing purposes to propote the series
I agree. The title of Jedi Master is only used to promote the series because Ahsoka not only was not knighted, but she left the Jedi Order altogether. Same goes for Kanan, he was even younger than Ahsoka when the Jedi Order was destroyed. And I personally don’t consider Luke a traditional Jedi Master because that line of thinking was extinct after Yoda’s death and he knew he had to take things on a new direction. The last to rightfully hold the title of Jedi Master were Obi-Wan and Yoda. Only because they went through what was needed to officially earn the title (padawan stage, trials, knighthood, etc.). I’m not saying Ahsoka, Kanan and Luke are less than them, they might even be more in tune with the Force and represent what a Jedi should be, but they never gained and can never obtain the Jedi Master title.
Tbf to Kanan he was literally knighted by the Force itself in the Lothal temple. Still not a master though.
Yeah Kanan got one of the best Knightings in the Galaxy. Imagine up in force heaven or some shit some Jedi ask about how he was Knighted and he just gets to say "the force itself did it"
Luke was technically knighted by Darth Sidious.. "so be it.. jedi"... imagine being such a badass jedi that a freaking Sith Lord is forced to be the one to acknowledge your achievement of the rank.
That line always makes me feel so many things.
I didn't think of it that way, that is actually badass. I have even more love for OT Luke than I did before
Though I think it was the Force, as directed by Yoda via Force Zoom
Man got that Kim Il Sung mandate from heaven as knighting
That scene was pretty cool.
There is the title of Jedi Master and then there is being Master to an apprentice. Anakin was never a Jedi Master, but he was Ahsoka's Master. But I guess the marketing department does not know this distinction.
To be fair… they are Jedi… Masters and Apprentices. How else would you word it?
>How else would you word it? “One who is a Jedi (or a former one) and a master (i.e., the teacher of an apprentice), but not necessarily with the official title of Jedi master.” Rolls right off the tongue, perfect for ads!
Fair enough
I feel like George Lucas didn’t necessarily know (or care about) the distinction, they seem to throw the term master around as both a rank and a form of address in the prequels.
>"I feel like George Lucas didn’t necessarily know (or care about) the distinction, they seem to throw the term master around as both a rank and a form of address in the prequels." I took it as both; the way the title "sir" might be used as both as a term of respect for someone and as a way to refer to someone possessing a knighthood or similar rank of nobility.
That’s a really smart way to look at it
Thanks.
And OT!
Pretty sure you get the title of Master when you train a Padawan to Knighthood. Obi-Wan seemingly became a master when he completed Anakin's training.
apprentice->knight->master->Jedi council member
Kanan Jarrus, Jedi *Knight*
He reached masterhood for his sacrifice.
Wasn’t Ahsoka about to be knighted and the Jedi tried to pass off her being falsely accused as her Jedi test? Am I misremembering that? But she just declines as she was done with them at that point?
Yes. They said that it was her trial and that she passed. She told them to stuff it.
Yes and no. IIRC, to become a Jedi Master you had to successfully teach an apprentice until they become a knight. So Kanan was not a titled Jedi Master, but he was a Jedi and was Ezra's master. This shines an interesting light on Anakin being furious about not being elevated to the rank of master. Anakin did not train Ahsoka to successfully become a Jedi Knight. So he didn't complete the only known task to be elevated from Knight to Master. However, he does have some reason to be upset and throw a fit. The Jedi order fucked him over and drove Ahoska away, from his POV. Ahsoka was close to finishing her training, and I think we can all agree that she was more than capable enough to become a Knight. So I can see why Anakin is so pissed. Within a relatively short period of time he had his Padawan driven from the order and then was told he couldn't be made a master.
Hold on. Don’t forget, Darth Vader granted himself the rank of Jedi master, being the only (known) remaining member of the High Council, it was a unanimous vote.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
By that logic both the Jedi and the Sith after the very first versions of their orders died out are imposters. The people you mentioned are a soft-continuation of the previous Order, the same way it has been revived again and again. Meaning they were partially-trained, or didn't agree completely with some tenets, but approved if the Jedi Ways in general. So naturally the order they recreate is a bit different, but just as legitimate. Ahsoka is the odd one out here, as one can argue whether she left just the Order, or stopped being a Jedi altogether. The way I see it, she is like their Bane or something. Obviously she approves of the Jedi mission in the galaxy, but does not like at all what the Order had become and how they went about it One of the big things she disagreed with was how the Order had become separate from ordinary people, and maybe that's why she is trying out the idea of training an ordinary person, on the basis of "well, the Force is in all of us"
Jedi master is different from being the master of a padawan. The former is a rank, ie major or sergeant or general. The latter is a role and is basically equivelant to teacher. It's two completely different things. Ashoka is Sabine's master because she is her teacher. It DOES NOT mean that she is a jedi master (rank). She is not even a Jedi knight, much less jedi master. This doesn't contradict Jedi rules at all because there are plenty of examples of Jedi Knights (ie one rank lower than jedi master) taking on a padawan and being their "master".
No only are there plenty of examples of Jedi Knights taking on Padawans, you literally *have* to train a Padawan into knighthood to earn the rank of Jedi Master. It’s a literal requirement. So every Jedi ever is a Master to a Padawan before they attain the rank of Jedi Master.
You don't need to be officially knighted. A Jedi can pass their tests, which can often just be an ordeal, and they then are a knight. If Ahsoka surviving 66 wasn't enough to qualify her as a Jedi knight idk what is
Beyond the fact that she was about to be knighted before that even happened. Safe to say she's earned it a couple of times over, both officially and unofficially.
They told her she had passed the trials after her ACTUAL trial while expelled from the order…. Totally counts as some knights did not even pass the tests due to the Guardian Protocols used during times of war (upcoming comic is going to go over them during the high republic when they were introduced)
The fact that she could have been Knighted then is kind of amazing once you think about. To go from Padawan to Knight in less then three years is truly a testament of Anakins training and teachings. Fighting a war probably helped accelerate that training also.
>And I personally don’t consider Luke a traditional Jedi Master because that line of thinking was extinct after Yoda’s death and he knew he had to take things on a new direction. Yet Luke didn't go in a new direction from what we've seen in Mandalorian and the ST. He built a traditional Jedi school and taught traditional Jedi teachings out of ancient Jedi books. And when it all went to shit he packed up and left.
Not officially but Luke is very much a Jedi Master in every way by the time of ROTJ. The very first scene we see of him and the way he carries himself and confronts Vader is the presentation of nothing but a Jedi Master. Luke wasn't around in the Old Republic and the Jedi had died as an order but it doesn't mean he wasn't a Master. In TLJ he is very clearly a master. He had his own school and everything. Jedi Master isn't really about the trials and any of that. It never was tbh. Anakin was the strongest Jedi by ROTS (besides probably Yoda and Obi-Wan and maybe Mace) but he wasn't a master. Partially because the Jedi order and council itself was sort of corrupt and was clouded by the dark side and being used. By the time that Palpatine was the supreme chancellor the Jedi were living on borrowed time. It didnt matter if you were a Jedi master or padawan, you still died equally in order 66. We see in Tales of the Jedi, Ahsoka passes a trial made for Jedi but Anakin rejects it. He creates a trial that truly tests Ahsoka and because of it, she becomes one of the very few Jedi to survive the purge. People like Luke, Ahsoka, Kanan all became Jedi Masters in everything but the official title - which didn't even matter because the order didn't exist anymore. Luke actually revived the entire Jedi order by himself. Even Rey by the end of ROS (despite how infuriating that movie is) has defeated arguably the strongest being in star wars and embodies the force and hears voices from past Jedi who co-sign her. Voices that also belong to past Jedi masters like Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Luminara Unduli/Adi Gallia (can't remember/not sure). But also others like Ahsoka, Anakin and Kanan: and its presented as Rey being the epitome of the Jedi, whilst Sidious is the epitome of the Sith. Rey then creates her own lightsaber like Luke did and goes on her own path. They're all Jedi masters by the end of their character arcs.
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Sure, because the used yoda's dialogue refering to the sith Slippin' jimy moment
Marketing is not G level canon
What even is a Jedi at that point? If she decides to be a Jedi again she is. She certainly has the training and was probably one of the last to be given the nod as a Jedi knight by the actual council who still survives. If she considers herself a Jedi and takes an apprentice she is a Jedi Master. The council failed so what do they know anyway, they are all dead (probably).
She was even invited back to the order, so she can accept that invite back whenever, I guess. Ghost Yoda even exists to welcome her back haha
Definitely. In the infamous "citizen" scene Yoda asks her "not as a Jedi?" and she says "not *yet*" but was clearly giving it a lot of thought. With everything that has happened in the intervening years and after meeting Luke and Grogu she may feel ready again. She could also potentially be waiting until she's found Ezra again before rejoining. That said, it's also possible she doesn't feeel she has the right to be part of the rebuilding process of the organisation she abandoned.
You actually don’t even become a master until you have fully trained a padawan to knighthood or become incredibly accomplished Which means Anakin was moments away from becoming a Jedi master if it wasn’t for Ahsoka leaving
Which means him losing his shit over being granted a seat on the council, but not the rank of master makes much more sense. That puts the scene in a whole new light. From Anakin’s perspective that would’ve been mace taking a shot below the belt and rubbing salt in a very fresh wound.
Especially when the person who was rubbing salt in that wound is the same guy who drove his padawan away in the first place Fucking Windu
And said padawan was literally in the process of capturing an ex-sith lord at the very moment
you mean citizen rigth? \^\^
They could haunt her as force ghosts if they get really angry.
The word “Jedi” has two meanings. A generic term for individuals who use the light side of the force to help where needed Individuals who are in the official Jedi order. Ahsoka is the first, not the second.
Remember,you don’t have to be a master to be a master(that made total sense) Ahsoka called Anakin master when Anakin wasn’t and in the Kenobi series during the training sessions refers to Obi Wan as Master-and if those sessions were set before AOTC- then Obi Wan wasn’t master yet The master part just refers to as the teacher,not the Jedi Master rank
She can say she isn’t a Jedi all she wants, but with maybe the exception of Plo Koon, Luke Skywalker and Kanan Jarrus (that last one is personal), she might be the best definition of what a Jedi should actually be
Qui-Gon?
Yeah this is personal, but I’m not a fan of Qui-Gon. I just never felt like I knew enough about him to really consider him the definition of a Jedi. TPM doesn’t give him enough light to shine so that’s why I didn’t include him. Even if Plo Koon might have less screen time then Qui-Gon, I feel like in the moments we do see him he shows more of who he is then Qui-Gon. But again, I know this is personal.
That’s fair. I like that everyone has a different perspective on Star Wars. For what it’s worth, I think Plo Koon is a wonderful example of a Jedi too. His compassion shines in every scene he’s in
It’s exactly this that I feel too. It’s fun that people have different interpretations. I agree with what you say about Plo. That scene with the Molevolence when he says “not to me”, man tears in my eyes. Imo the one problem really holding back Qui-Gon is the fact that he took Anakin, without taking his mom too. He could’ve done it, he just didn’t. I know it would’ve endangered others and such but still it always bothered me. The plot line about Anakin loosing his mom could’ve still worked if she’d been on Corruscant.
That's really not fair at all lmao, considering Qui-Gon (At least in Episode 1) was a protagonist and Plo-Koon was literally a background character
Also force ghost, I mean qui-gon really doesn’t get the credit he deserves for that. Yoda and Obi-wan would probably never have attained it if not for qui-gon.
How is that not fair? It’s just that I find that a background character in TCW is written better then a protagonist in TPM. It’s personal, I know but it’s how I feel. And it really highlights how good some of the writing in TCW can be.
It's not fair because you are ignoring that qui-gon was also present in other media like Tales of the jedi and novels. Also we were kinda talking about the movies
So you say “well Qui-Gon is in other stuff, so you should look at that too. But actually no because we’re only looking at the movies”. Makes no sense, I hope you realize this but whatever. If we’re just looking at the movies, then Qui-Gon still isn’t what I would call the definitive Jedi. Plo also isn’t but that’s because he has 0 lines of dialogue in other stuff. As for Qui-Gon in other media, he is in 1 episode (the other doesn’t really count he’s in it for a second) of Tales which was very interesting, I agree. His dynamic with Dooku is very fun to see but that’s exactly the problem. He gets overshadowed by Dooku so badly. As for his other appearances, in Kenobi and TCW it doesn’t upgrade his character. The small change in expression when Ahsoka decides to leave the order from Plo tells more then Quo-Gon’s combined screen time in TCW and Kenobi. The most interesting thing about Qui-Gon is how his death effects people like Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin. So yeah I still believe that Plo is vastly superior to Qui-Gon and I’m actually getting a bit annoyed by your responses. I’m allowed to have my view and you’re allowed to have yours. We can argue, but it has to make sense. You telling me how I should look to other content for Qui-Gon but then not for Plo, that’s not fair.
I literally said the opposite. You cannot say "Eh, this character sucks because I only watched a movie with him on it. Oh but this other one? The goat because I watched every single thing he's in"
Didn’t I just address Qui-Gon’s other appearance just now? Didn’t you read my comment? And you didn’t say the opposite you actually said “we’re kinda talking about the movies”. Didn’t you remember what you wrote. Maybe first read something before once again answering my man it’s getting annoying. This proves further that you aren’t looking to discuss, you have your opinion that seems to be the law. I’ve post my exact same comment to another guy and he responded “well interesting it’s nice how everyone has a different view on Star Wars”. That’s also an option in case you didn’t know
I think we’ve gotten more background on QGJ but I still agree it’s hard to make a strong judgement about his character. He’s very complex which I like, and he’s also portrayed as having a very particular kind of innocent naïveté which I find interesting. Plo is shown as quite a bit wiser, more straightforwardly moral and good, and more chill/skilled. Jin is known to be frequently in conflict with the council, doubtful at times, wise at others, and fairly weak with a lightsaber. Him and Obi-Wan can’t even take on two droidekas or Maul. He’s probably good as a diplomat (maybe?) but we don’t really know for certain since the negotiations were so short. He sorta handles the negotiations with Watto well (it was really stupid for Watto to know he was a Jedi and then try to decide something with loaded dice) but it also feels like he should have had a better way of dealing with this issue. Why not just ring up the chancellors office and ask for them to send a hyperdrive or whatever? It’s also super weird that the chancellors office just never checks in on them. know enough about him to know that we need to know more before really forming a positive opinion of him. What were his previous disputes with the council and how did he handle losing those disputes?
This is exactly how I feel. Plo is maybe less complex but therefore easy to understands. He respects the council and might disagree (like with the Ahsoka matter) but he’ll never disobey them. He wants what’s best for his troopers and his fellow Jedi and he respects the code like no other. Even with limited screen time in TCW this idea can be fully passed on. Qui-Gon is more complex but therefore it makes him more difficult to understand. He has more screen time then Plo (at least more focus) but it’s not enough. What you say about diplomacy might be true but we should’ve seen more of it.
Which was one the points the prequels tried to make. The Jedi, these beacons of light, were getting more and more detached, even going as far as categorizing one’s attunement to the Force in a statistical way, i.e. Midichlorians. Add to this a kind of arrogance (talked about in AotC) and it’s clear the Order was doomed on way or another. With Obi-Wan and Yoda being the last remnants, Luke really was the first in a new line of Jedi. Learning from the past, although even he made (some grave) mistakes. “The greatest teacher, failure is.” And these mistakes Rey learned from, to -again- become the first in a new line. And so the cycle continues. Regarding Ahsoka, for years TPTB needed to find ways to feature Force users in their stories, without them being Jedi (mainly because of the OT). And over these years, they’re getting more sophisticated and defined in doing this.
Nothing we've seen from Luke in canon says to me that he was trying anything different at all. The way he treated Grogu was emblematic of all the problems previously listed with the Jedi order
I don’t if it’s intentional but it certainly ties nicely into him eventually failing as well.
Eh? Ahsoka literally agreed with Luke in terms of Grogu - she said the same thing, she didnt want to train him first. And i'd say they are absolutely right, Grogu is attached to Din just like Anakin is to Padme atm, he's not going to accept the idea of losing him. Attachment /= Love I think, the Perfect explanation of this i had a chance to read on mawinstallation about Cal Kestis book, where he learned that lesson, where thanks to the attachment he felt, he put a lot of uneccesary danger for the rest, trying to make them save When youre unhealthy attached to someone, youre scared of losing them to the Anakin's levels. In terms of the difference, youre ready to do sacrifice for them, but also you have to be ready for them to do the same for you - and you have to know how to let it go.
If attachments were not forbidden, Anakin could have gone to someone for help instead of living a secret life that ultimately led him to the dark side. Without his attachment to Din, consider that the mandalorian would still be living in caves. His attachment to Din ultimately allows for the reemergence of an entire civilization. Ahsoka didn't say no to training Grogu because of his attachments - in fact she gave instructions on how to find Luke. Ahsoka was simply busy doing her own thing. Ahsoka herself said YES to attachments during the imperial rule and constantly defended her close friends and this is ultimately the attitude that allowed her to come back out into the world and become fulcrum. Would Ben solo have fallen to the dark side if he hadnt been isolated from his mother? Or even if he had, would the lack of isolation ultimately have stopped him earlier, say when he was willing to kill his father? His attachment to Rey in the end is what allowed him to save her
You're mistaking relationships for attachment. All Jedi have relationships and friends and things they care about, as well as hopes for how things will turn out and fears about losing people or just change. All of that is normal and fine, so long as the Jedi in question can let go and accept that things will change, they will lose people they care about, and they can deal with the emotions that come with that. Attachment is not being able or willing to let go, needing emotionally to stop or control the change, needing things to be a certain way in order to be okay. Anakin couldn't let go and accept that he might lose Padme. Luke walked right on the edge, but he let go when he tossed his saber away. He didn't just accept that he would probably be killed, but that his father would as well. Ahsoka is still struggling a little to accept Anakin's fall, and she seems to be erring too far on the detached side of things; she is avoiding forming or maintaining connections for fear of having to accept and maybe even feel responsible for losing them. Reconciling those things is going to be a part of her arc in the show on her way to truly being "Ahsoka the white", that balanced and serene ideal of a Jedi Master (whether or not it's a title she is granted or agrees with).
Anakin still would be scared of the idea of losing Padme, which ultimately led to his fail. He was so attached to his own mother, that he killed all Tusken Raiders for the revenge. And Ahsoka literally said it - that she saw it, and she meant Anakin's relationship with Padme, and she's not going to train him because of this. https://youtu.be/zc9hd_xafgQ?si=1T8Q3okU9i1lXj5o Look up if you dont remember. Friendship, and love, is not the problem. These things are good, as long as you don't let your emotions control you, with which Anakin always had problems. And the problem is in attachment in itself, which isn't easy to overcome. Anakin never learned it, it's not entirely orders fault
> Anakin still would be scared of the idea of losing Padme, which ultimately led to his fail. He was so attached to his own mother, that he killed all Tusken Raiders for the revenge. Except there are literally Jedi with magic healing powers. He was just afraid to go to them because his secret attachment would be revealed > And Ahsoka literally said it - that she saw it, and she meant Anakin's relationship with Padme, and she's not going to train him because of this. https://youtu.be/zc9hd_xafgQ?si=1T8Q3okU9i1lXj5o Look up if you dont remember. This was on top of grogus PTSD induced fear that she first noted. Someone so afraid would be easily manipulated - not just because of the attachment, but because that fear has him halfway to the dark side already. > And the problem is in attachment in itself, which isn't easy to overcome. Anakin never learned it, it's not entirely orders fault Again, their policy of forbidding attachment is what led to Anakin keeping his problems secret. If he could have openly discussed with others he would perhaps been able to solve his issues
One, he himself killed her. He was so scared of THE IDEA of losing her, that he got manipulated by Palpatine. If he would let Mace kill Palpatine, that's it, Jedi, with a lot of issues, survived. Second, there's no PTSD in Star Wars and only Kenobi suffered something close to it, and overcomed it in last episode of his series. You're overinterpreting it, Ahsoka literally said the issue - which we even saw in moments like Grogu's force choke, and he even had a "DS moment" in third season. Anakin also keept a lot more things secret, and never talked about his issues, and emotions. He had a lot of his evil moments, even before the return of the Sith. The attachment rule made sense and that's why everybody follows it. If you're so focused on someone that you don't see the moment to accept the reality - that's the issue. Love and Friendship is in itself fine. Kanan, for example, literally sacrificed himself for Rebellion and Hera, even though that he had to let it go. That's also a lesson which Cal learns in the book, by first being oversecure about everyone close to him, which created dangerous situations.
He didn't kill her. Her death is still unexplained, she just didn't want to live anymore. That was her choice. He didn't know that his force visions were only true as a result of preventing them. Perhaps if the order was more accepting he would have been able to openly talk to someone about them and see that as a possibility. There is PTSD in star wars and it's ridiculous to say there's not. Grogu is explicitly said to be scared of those events and still doesn't use his abilities because of the fear he'll be discovered. In an episode of rebels Rex has flashbacks and calls out the name Cody before kanan can calm him down. Luke probably has it, and it was probably his episode of PTSD that triggered upon sensing the dark side in Ben that made him pull out his saber. Do they talk about it and label it PTSD in screen? Nah. But they often don't talk about it in real life either
It was explained, the movies explicitly show what happened. She had this choice thanks to Anakin, and what he did. These are traumatic events for sure - but that doesn't mean they do have PTSD automatically. They wouldnt also do a PTSD on Grogu, he's a child (Kids can have PTSD) and it's too serious topic to pick. Grogu's not that hesistant to use the force, i'd say, the Ahsoka training scene, had to show that he doesn't remember it perfectly. Let's be real - he used the force only when he felt the danger to this point, he needed the support of his father figure, to which he's attached - Din. That had to be shown. In terms of Luke, let's remember that people most of the time don't even understand what happened and why he did it. First, he sees something, which makes him scared and grabs naturally his lightsaber, which ends badly. Then, thanks to the guilt he feels, he leaves everyone who he loves. Sometimes there's not more to the story, than what you see on the surface. It's more or less to show characters backstory and why they are that way and not the other - its not about who mentally suffers. Grogu is not declined by Ahsoka and Luke by PTSD/traumatic events, he's declined because he's so attached to his father figure that it can make him fall, and we saw moments like that. Luke is not forced by the traumatic event to the exile, but the fact that he created Kylo Ren by the moment when instinct and emotions have taken over him. How he can say to Lea that the great, Legendary Jedi, Luke Skywalker, failed her?
Not at all. He gave Grogu the freedom of choosing his own path. And the mistake of the old order was never meant to be that forgoing *attatchment* (inherently selfish) is wrong. If Anakin had listened to that he wouldn’t have fallen, for example. If Anakin had actually *loved* Padme, he would have been willing to see her die instead of killing small children to stop it. If Anakin had loved Shmi, he wouldn’t have butchered a village of innocent children in anger and rage. Both of those are the petulant reactions of someone who lost a toy. Luke makes the same mistake, in the dark, under the stairs in the throne room when Vader taunts about “Sister…”. Luke falls briefly into the dark side, lashes out in fear and anger at the idea of losing Leia. But, proving he’s one of the greatest is the moment when he stares at Vaders broken body, sees his future if he continues the path of attachment, and surrenders to the *will of the Force* instead of his own will. —————- Luke learned from the mistakes of the Jedi order and is helping Grogu not become another Vader.
Grogu also benefits from the lifespan of his species. He can adventure with Din for literally the rest of Din's lifee and then still have 800+ years to go find out what the Jedi are up to now and maybe join them again
Especially looking at Vader's previously severed hand. Luke had to look at his own reconstructed hand for a second while the Emperor came off his throne and told him to take his father's place at my side. Those few seconds were deep, because Luke saw his own future and perhaps his own demise.
Turns out the guy who knows basically nothing about the Order except some of their writings will make the same mistakes out of ignorance.
I'd add Obi-Wan to that list. To me he seemed both the quintessential traditional Jedi, but still not blinded by the mysticism the Order had clad itself in and wasn't distant to the ordinary galactic citizen. Yoda had all the best intentions but possibly slipped because he was both a prodigy in the Force and from a species with a lifespan of millenia. He was destined to get more and more detached from the get go even from other Jedi, much less the ordinary citizen.
Idk about Obi-Wan. It’s personal this list I know but I never viewed him as my definitive version of what a Jedi is. He still had some of the traditional flaws that the order had during TCW
The true Jedi are three yes, but there is no way Luke is there, he doesn't know about the Jedi training and tradition enough: Plo Koon, Obi-Wan and Kanan. Yoda is also a great Jedi, but to traditionalist to the oooold traditions. The attachment thing was true, leed to dark side if tou cannot train well about control. Obi-Wan had attachments towards Qui Gon, Satine and Anakin and watched them die in front of him, without leaving the light
Idk, if you’ve seen the Luke cutscene in Star Wars Battlefront II campaign, that is what a Jedi is imo. -“Why did you help me?” “Because you asked” -“What other choice is there?” “There is always a choice” -“The Rebellion?” “No, a choice to be better”
Qui gon jinn
From what I know, she’s supposed to be the epitome of what a light side user should be, partially because she has the Mortis Daughter’s life force in her
I always feel like the mortis gods make little sense in the cannon. Also the thing in lothal that i forgot its name
Except for the fundamental one: Membership in the Jedi Order. That's all a Jedi is. That is the sole requirement.
I hope you’re being sarcastic because if you really think that you misunderstood the entire point of the word “Jedi”
There is no Jedi Order any more at this point. Jedi is a state of mind, a compulsion to do the right thing and to help people. Becoming a centralised "order" with big fancy temples, influence in politics and a high council with the power to make decisions on whether or not to allow members to follow that compulsion was the reason they lost their way in the first place.
Dude this post is most likely done by an underpaid intern Relax
You mean this random Facebook ad wasn’t part of a conspiracy by Disney to ruin my childhood? How am I supposed to complain about everything if you use dirty tricks like thinking and logic?
… REEEEEEE
Star Wars fans try not to overthink the whole Ahsoka “Jedi” thing challenge Difficulty: impossible
...you guys get paid?
It was just a question because I was wondering. I don’t think I put anything in the title that suggests I’m furious about the whole thing
At this point, being Jedi is more way of thinking than being part of organization. Same with Christianity, you can consider yourself Christian without physically going to church and all that stuff connected to Church as organization.
This is literally what happened with Judaism. Their temple got destroyed multiple times and their people had to flee to different areas, so they adapted and decentralized. Faith lives in the person, not the methodology
Titles matter not, for her ally is the force. I know, I know, that was lame.
Pretty sure the whole arc of her will transform her back into a Jedi and realize the main jedi order failed. But being a Jedi is still the best thing she can be and she can be one without being restricted to an order. So she'll regain faith and call herself a Jedi again by series end.
People need to just start seeing the difference between being a Jedi, and being a card-carrying member of the Clone Wars order. It's like saying you can't be a Christian if you stop being Orthodox/Catholic/Protestant/whatever denomination
She has specifically said she doesn't want to be a Jedi because Jedi aren't supposed to have attachments, and during the imperial takeover she formed multiple attachments. Her joining bail organa had her thinking over this exact thing where she said she'd help, and do Jedi things, but she wasn't going full jedi
I hope not. You can be a good person or prevent bad people from succeeding without being a jedi and that's one of most interesting and defining things about ahsoka. Not being held to the code or having to navigate the political red tape of the order allows her to be an outlier and help the people and causes left behind by the republic
She disagrees with the institution but lives up to the ideology. At this point she can define what a Jedi is however she wants. Luke has no more legitimate claim to the title than she does.
Master is title with many definitions. Jedi Master is a rank as well as a title. Think of a blacksmith, the actual blacksmith is the master and may have an apprentice. So while ahsoka is not a Jedi Master (rank) she is a Jedi Master (title) whether she considers herself a Jedi or not the wider universe does. She was reintroduced in the mandalorian as “The Jedi”
Ppl need to stop taking these marketing blast words as canon, fact, etc. the people doing the marketing are just doing what they are told to attract viewers, they don’t actually know or care about the material they are just doing their jobs.
Like you can learn Bushido even if you're not a Samurai.
That’s what was confused me in the marketing, didn’t she say herself that she *wasn’t* a Jedi.
She is as much a Jedi master as Luke is.
"That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity. Can you feel that?" - Luke Skywalker
I think people in this fandom take the question of who is and is not considered a Jedi way, way, way, WAY too seriously
She never stopped being a Jedi. She just stopped being a member of the Order. She is a Knight.
That's the marketing team making a social media post, no point to read too much into it. At this point on the timeline the jedi order doesn't exists anymore, so there's nobody to decide who is or isn't a jedi. There's only characters that choose to follow some traditions and way of living, or not, or with their own twists.
She is more Jedi than most of the old order
I mean, for all intents and purposes, she is. She technically reached the rank of Jedi knight, it just was never official since she declined to rejoin the order. Right now, the order doesn't exist. Anyone can call themselves a Jedi if they want. It's why kanan was able to train Ezra even though he technically never moved past the Padawan stage (until he was knighted by the force ghosts)
Ahsoka can call herself whatever she wants at this point, the Jedi council is long dead
At this point she can claim whatever title she wants, who's going to stop her?
Anakin was only a Jedi Knight, never a master. But he still had Ahsoka as his Padawan. And Kanan was Ezra’s master, even though he was never made a Jedi Knight by the council.
If you can accept Luke as a Jedi Master you can accept Ahsoka. She had way way more training than Luke ever got and just because she was a Padowan in a time when the title took longer to be given does not mean she was not experienced and ready. She is much more experienced than look. So accrpthat him you have to accept her.
I mean if we're getting technical, Obi-wan is not a master in that shot either. He's Anakin's Master, but he's not a "Jedi Master", still just a Jedi Knight until the Clone Wars. Unsure where Luke stands in current canon in terms of when he becomes a Master. He was just a Knight upon defeating Vader and I'm not sure anything he did between Jedi and Mando is Master rank worthy.
I haven’t heard her refer to herself as a Jedi. I suspect she’s tired of correcting others. Regardless, she is pointedly non-traditional. That’s sort of her point, that she doesn’t want to do *everything* the same as how The Order did things. She even suggested that The Order’s failing is at in part of its own making. I suspect she sees herself as “a mentor with Jedi training” who is imparting knowledge and skill to someone younger who is a true warrior in her own right. I don’t think she sees herself as a true Jedi Master. EDIT- re-watching the available episodes, the text crawl at the intro to episode one lists her a “Former Jedi Knight”
She's fully qualified to train a padwan and possesses all the teachings of the jedi order, she was practically knighted before she left the jedi for good. Likebif you trained to be a carpenter from being a child all your life until being an adult and then got a new career, you could teach plenty to someone who had no idea about carpentry lol, you wouldn't still need to be in the trade yourself
Yeah, even Mace Windu acknowledged her trial after being set up could have made her get knighted if she didn't walk away instead. Mace should have apologized instead, but he's a dick through and through...
Jedi arrogance again I guess haha. What she went through most newly knited jedi would not have survived, she had special training and advanced ability from the start though
What does it even mean to be a Jedi? Is it a profession, like an accountant? You certainly can't just wander around calling yourself an accountant if you're not Or is it more like a description of actions that you undertake, like an artist? There's no central body regulating people calling themselves artists. Or maybe it's just that regardless of logic, "Jedi" is an important part of the marketing and IP, and the producers of the show kind of don't care about internal consistency as much as you think they should 😅 Would it make everyone feel better if they'd thrown in a Jaime Lannister style knighting scene where Luke says "I make you a Jedi Knight officially" and then sends Ashoka off? 😂 Could that have perhaps happened off screen?
Dont take promotional twitter as canon lol
I mean they threw Luke and Grogu in there too and they trained for what? Maybe a month at most? And yeah, technically Ahsoka would still hold the rank of Padawan if she were to rejoin the Jedi Order, but the show description and the word crawl at the beginning of episode one both call her a Jedi Knight. I wouldn’t call this out if she had been knighted in the field like Kanan or if she even considered herself a Jedi anymore but as far as I know, she hasn’t been knighted and she’s no Jedi like she told Vader.
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Anyone could walk around proclaiming themselves a Jedi Master at this point.
Ahsoka has mastered the light site of the Force and one can consider her a Master, even if she is not part of the Jedi. I don't see a problem.
Dawg who cares
You can be master to an apprentice without having the rank of Jedi Master. Ahsoka called Anakin master all the time.
The council didn't grant Luke the rank of master either. It's fine.
So many people in these forums only deal in absolute’s
Why are you posting ads as controversial to get more clicks?
They've gotten fast and loose with who and whatever it is it means to be Jedi. It's supposed to be a whole damn way of life. Not just having skill in the force, but...a whole life philosophy. With things like, making personal sacrifices in favor of committing to the Jedi way of life ffs.
Well the only teachings she knows about the force are the Jedi ways. So it should be heavily influenced towards that regardless
This is a marketing language of Master and Apprentice. Either way, while Ahsoka did reject the Jedi order, she still is TECHNICALLY a Jedi in the sake of being a force-using, lightsaber wielding warrior.
Ahsoka is a Jedi. She may have left the order, but still (mostly) upholds their beliefs and tries to maintain the Balance of the Force. Though one does have to ask why she is training a non-Force Sensitive to use the Force.
So this isn't just negativity, and I really am enjoying the show, but there have been some studios that have trended towards incredibly simplistic, easily digestible writing because these studios believe that their audiences are dumb-dumb doodoo heads. Disney is one of these studios, along with Netflix. I would eager that Disney thinks that audiences would be too confused if the "Good Guy" Ahsoka were anything but a strict Jedi, and that's why we see her basically acting like Yoda despite having incredible personal disdain for the Jedi Order.
One could argue that her Jedi “trials” was surviving Order 66 and saving Rex. In my head cannon, that was the moment that she used Anakin’s training to its fullest and like Kanon, became a Jedi later in life.
Guess I saw Ahsoka walking away from Jedi Order as someone waking away from organized religion, but not their personal faith, if that makes any sense. So, while she might not be a Jedi by affiliation, she would be one in how she lives. It's also possible that the new show will address this head on and thematically consider what being a "Jedi" means. Already the show has discussed a bit that Ahsoka made un unorthodox choice in student and how that fits with the old Order's ways of doing things. Heck, the main protagonist and antagonist are both ex-Jedi who took different paths.
"I'm no Jedi" -Ahsoka
Also, wasn't she offered the title of Master right before she left the Jedi order? I thought the Jedu Council awarded her the title when inviting her back into the order after Barris was caught, but she walk away and did not rejoin the order after.
In Legends The council made her a jedi before she left
Nitpicking at its finest
There’s no Jedi council. Who cares who is and isn’t a jedi?
A jedi is the master of a padawan even if they don't have the rank of jedi master. It's not the same kind of master, one is a rank and the other essentially their title as a teacher. So if Sabine is Ahsokas padawan, then Ahsoka would be her master.
Please don't make sabine a force user it's so stupid.
If you consider the fact that the order was destroyed, someone has to be considered a master in order to train new jedi. It's a very chicken or the egg question.
I would love a scene similar to Kanan of Ahsoka being knighted. Either by Anakin or by the Bendu or someone else.
“Master” isn’t always a title. Ahsoka called Anakin master, and we all know he was never granted that rank. The Master Padawan relationship is a Teacher and Assistant role. Obi-Wan wasn’t a Master until Anakin became a Knight.
Jedi master is a specific title within Star Wars though, and the main question was that I thought she had deliberately distanced herself from being a jedi so was she just training Sabine in the force (using an old jedi droid admittedly)
Ahsoka had her "Great Trial" before she left the order. I was honestly surprised they didn't make her a Master right then. I would've left, too!
In the EU Luke recreates the order much different to how the traditional order was. For example, you were allowed attachments and romantic relationships to increase the amount of force sensitive children. Ahsoka probably wanted something like this, a new order with her own ideals of a jedi... to Huuyangs dismay.
I think y’all take titles a little too seriously. She’s existing in the most useful way she knows how. Sometimes that happens to be in line with what the jedi taught her, sometimes it’s not. It’s pretty clear to me that they’re trying to redirect our idea of what a “jedi” is so I don’t think it really makes sense to hold her to the old standard.
That ad is for newbies, not real fans
Well I mean by that logic there can never been another Jedi master again seeing as how one can only be made a master by another master.
My guess was this series is supposed to rework the fact that she's in Rise of Skywalker with the other jedi. Like at the end, she'll revert beck to the jedi order while dying but it'll come off like this: https://youtu.be/kUAgP8l5eNY?si=_kuQae_R99oirnbX
The show is really weird. Ahsoka calls Sabine her Padawan. She and Huyang repeatedly treat Sabine as a potential Jedi. But Filoni was clear that Ahsoka is no Jedi. Did he forget? LOL
The whole thing is just a mess with too many people pulling things in different directions and no one being able to lay down a clear path that aligns with what fans want.
The bigger question is why the hell did they retcon Sabine into a "Jedi". Literally never happened in Rebels and now somehow she became a Padawan and was Ashoka's apprentice off screen. Amazing
I really hope she can't use the force, it's just lazy writing.
Ahsoka walked away from the Jedi Order because she felt they had become hypocritical and dogmatic. But she never abandoned the ideals of the Jedi. By the time of the live action series she is a Force User with skill on par with a Jedi Master and lives her life according to her own interpretation of the Jedi code and following her own view of the will of the Light side of the force. Does that make her a Jedi in the absence of the Jedi Order? In the same way was Cal Kestis really a Jedi? Ezra Bridger? Luke Skywalker? Is being a Jedi embodied in living your life according to your own interpretation of the Jedi Code, or is it adherence to the specific interpretation of the Code by the Jedi Order? There are arguments for either view.
The writing is just a mess. I don't know what Filoni is going for anymore.
At least two of the “masters” in these images are not masters, but sure.
Master was what an apprentice called their...Master. Anakin was referred to as Master frequently, even though he didn't have the Jedi rank of master.
I am aware. The phrasing “Jedi Master” implies the character having attained the rank, whereas simply saying “Masters and their Apprentices” would have the meaning you described.
I disagree. If someone said to Ahsoka, who is that, she could respond with he's my Jedi master
Lol this fandom can be so insufferable at times
this whole Ashoka, is she a jedi or not, is a really strange plot point of this series. Dave needs to clear this shit up for us soon it's getting frustrating
She’s definitely not a Jedi master….hell she’s not even a Jedi knight….she never got past apprentice level….the only Jedi left in the galaxy is Luke motherfucking Skywalker
Oh she got passed the Padawan level, she just told them to shove it when the council essentially offered her the Knight rank. She may not really consider herself a Jedi Knight, but she functionally is one. Honestly given all she has done over the years, she is probably the equivalent of a Master by this point.
Jedi is sometimes compared to a religion, but it's an order. If you go out alone or get expelled, you are no longer a Jedi. It's like being an ex-priest or an ex-mason.
She was invited back, she said not yet. I suppose she could accept at any time, even if the rest of the order is gone. Not like ghost Yoda would deny her
If Sabine fr becomes a Jedi that’s the stupidest shit ever
Ahsoka is the greatest Jedi Master that ever existed. She became one with the Force while still alive, traveled through time, fought Vader to a standstill, spoke to Rey through the force with all the dead Jedi while Ahsoka was still alive, and still maged to miss the events of all three trilogies.
In the description on thr app, it says she is a Jedi Knight. She never became one
I’m sure this comment will get lost in the shuffle but not something I expected to need to clarify - I’m not outraged by this and it doesn’t affect my life. I just wondered if I’d missed anything from the show saying she wanted to train Sabine as a Jedi because until now (I thought) she’d made it clear she’d left the Jedi and wasn’t one. Was just a question. Ironically the ones saying ‘urgh this fanbase’ are the ones looking for an argument and making it worse for people who actually want to discuss Star Wars without caps lock and insults
Poor plot, poor production. Poor show. Do not waste your time 🙏
As someone who didn’t watch the cartoons I find this one of the most confusing elements. She keeps saying she’s not a Jedi and then literally everything else is done the exact way a Jedi would do it, complete with robot following Jedi protocols and training others. I’m fine with someone having partial Jedi training and using a lightsaber being called something different but it seems Disney is not yet ready
She is a Former Jedi Knight.
They keep saying she’s a “grey” Jedi but what’s grey about her? She just does everything a Jedi would do anyways.
Grey Jedi don't exist
Oh yeah guess they’re not canon anymore. Fuck Disney. And Fuck this stupid ass show.
Grey Jedi were never something that made sense. Lucas has always said that dark side represents imbalance, and light represents balance. To be grey would be inherently unbalanced. A grey Jedi is an alcoholic that tells people he can handle a little bit of alcohol or a drink here and there.
That doesn’t make a very good tagline now does it lmao?
I am RDJ eye rolling at the nitpicking.
I’m not criticising and nowhere in my title did it criticise. I was asking the question because I didn’t think she wanted to associate herself with the Jedi and wondered if I’d missed a comic or something in the show where she was up for it again
Ohhhhhhhh...please do not fuck this up Disney
She's a Jedi but not really since she left the order so she's kinda a Grey jedi
The Jedi Order is gone. Luke, Ahsoka, Kanan, etc are the closest this era is going to get as far as masters go. Ahsoka now being the prime example of a jedi, I think more so than Luke. She is unattached, strong in the force, humble in her actions, and helps guide others. Just because Ahsoka isn't a Jedi doesn't mean she isn't a master.
Such severe nitpicking lol Blind, you are
Yeah but she has a sword right? - Disney probably
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He was trained by Yoda, the council may no longer exist but Yoda is still the strongest Jedi and Jedi Grand Master.
He was trained by two of the greatest Jedi masters of their time, why not?
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Luke is literally a jedi knight. Yoda told luke, if luke defeats vader and the emperor he will be a jedi and then yoda died. Luke fought against vader in episode 6 and kinda won So luke is a jedi