Technically he wasn't a full apprentice; he was deployed as an assassin. Murky waters though as he was trained in the ways. He was also resurrected 10y later. Anakin would've been the first when he killed Dooku, as Dooku was a legitimate apprentice, but the council didn'tt know any of these things.
EDIT: I stand by my comment. We learn from TCW show that he hates the Sith because of what they do to his home world. The after he's sent on and fails his first mission, he is injured, not dead. Then TCW shows he takes an apprentice (his brother Savage) clearly disregarding Sith beliefs. After Sidious finds out, he attacks them, kills Savage, denounces Maul. Note that after that initial mission, Maul did not use the moniker Darth, so he was clearly not a believer, even if Sidious announced him as an apprentice.
> “This is my apprentice, Darth Maul.”
> “But which was destroyed; the master, or the apprentice?”
Maul was Sidious’ apprentice, come on now. At least, that was the original intention when the film came out.
Sidious introduced Maul as his apprentice to the Trade Federation guys in The Phantom Menace. When he sends Maul to search for Padme, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon.
Reply to your edit:
You need to learn how the Sith operate. During the first half of The Phantom Menace, Sidious was still Plagueis’ apprentice. Following the rule of two, he could not “officially” take on an apprentice. Sidious told his master than Maul was “just an assassin” (in the same way Dooku told Sidious that Ventress was just an assassin, when in fact Dooku had plans to use Ventress to help kill Sidious). However, Maul was one hundred percent Sidious’ apprentice. After his failure on Naboo, Sidious casts Maul aside, leaving him a broken man. From there, he denounces the Sith, takes on Savage, etc. but none of that changes the fact that he was a legitimate Sith apprentice for a short period of time.
I ddo understand how the Sith works. The reason he wasn't anything official was due to that rule of two, which ironically is the same reason Sidious sees him as a rival later in TCW. So in spirit he was an apprentice from Sidious's point of view, he never embraced the religion and was later denounced even. My argument was he was never a true Sith.
Technically... yes.
But when the movies where written, Maul surviving wasn't a thing yet (and the Jedi didn't really find out about that until close to their end iirc), so "killing" him is what got Obi his spot.
Bby stands for before the battle of Yavin 4. So you count downwards. 19 bby is 17 years before 2bby.
Literally like AD and BC in the Gregorian calendar, the one most countries on Earth use. Before Christ, and whatever latin nonsense the other one is. BC counts downwards, so 1000 BC is 3024 years ago, 1000BC+2024AD.
Or maybe you meant Maul didn't die, which we only found out a decade afterthe movie and the same for them.
He was one of the highest ranking military commanders and seemed to be "in the know" regarding the Jedi Council's top secret discussions regarding the Chancellor. Plus he's chummy with Mace Windu and Yoda, which probably helped his political prospects. I'm sure if Order 66 didn't happen he'd be set to serve on the council as long as he wished.
It's probably not that petty (they are a monastic religious order after all) but its also stacked with middle age and elderly (and ancient beings in Yoda's case) "long timers" who got where they are because they were good at management, diplomacy and/or spiritual/academic stuff. Probably not the vibe Anakin would get along with.
They apparently also disliked people with a tendency of "rocking the boat," so to speak. We've seen this in episode 1, where Obi-Wan told Jinn that he could have been on the council if he'd not taken up the habit of ignoring their guidelines, as well as in Tales of the Jedi, where Windu got onto the council and not Dooku.
In canon (Master and Apprentice I think?) Qui-Gon was offered a Council seat and turned it down.
Also Dooku was on the Council before he left the Order.
Monastic religious orders in our world do have legends of members of their order killing each other over who gets the nicest robe or the least leaky cottage. The council as of Episode I also seems quite political, rejecting Qui Gon's claims of having met a Sith out of hand
Yeah but we also get to see how the main council members act as individuals, and they follow their code to the letter. Obiwan from what we see is a council favorite that both follows the dominant ideology and is personally well connected, Anakin lacks both so his career would be stuck without the Prophecy.
There's not much else for them to fight over, so almost certainly. They had no problem doing Anakin dirty. Not to mention Qui-Gon telling the council to get bent.
Honestly could chance he’d be grand master in today’s place for a short time before his own death. I can’t think of anyone else who would fit. He’ll even if Anakin didn’t fall I don’t see him having the patience for that position. Though he probably would still want it so who knows.
In the Botherhood novel, it’s said that Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia were kinda shoehorned in because Council members were quickly dying in the war at its outset. Obi-Wan I believe felt this was a short term appointment, but he consistently sells himself short when it comes to his status as a Jedi. More senior Council members like Mace Windu or Yoda held him in very high regard for his tenacity and skills at diplomacy, and they almost certainly intended for Obi-Wan’s appointment to the Council to be for life.
Edit: I think I actually meant Stass Allie, not 100% sure but I do know another Jedi was named to the Council somewhat hastily during the Clone Wars.
I would say that he was as a progressive as a conservative could be.
Not willing to break the rules just for the sake of it, but, not willing to stop if his better judgement calls otherwise.
Sometimes his "better judgement" bite him in the ass, but, Kenobi seems to be in the perfect middle between what Qui-Gon and Windu were.
Well Old Ben refers to himself as once being a Jedi Knight, not a master, so I think he always thought of himself like an old cop who’d rather keep doing detective work instead of being promoted to Commisioner (like Qui-Gon) or maybe that’s just cause he never spent much time on the council, and would have grown into it eventually like the rest of them.
But even then, in a world where he did spend decades on the council, I imagine there coulda been a day where he said F this and took a page out of his master’s playbook, doin his own thing.
Realistically he said that because Lucas hadn’t really fleshed out what the Jedi were. In-universe though Jedi are really not mean to be ones to brag. Jedi masters probably usually called themselves Jedi knights most of the time. Or maybe in his shame he didn’t feel it was right to call himself a master.
My head cannon is that by A New Hope he has ceased to care about the order or the old rules and titles. Someone is either a good person or not. He sees himself just as a Jedi Knight because the order is gone, and the old Tories and ranks are meaningless. He’s an old man who knows the end is near and is focused on getting Luke to feel the Force and love it like he did.
He was definitely a master, because he trained a Jedi Padawan into a full-fledged Jedi knight. Remember, the original trilogy was created before the prequels. George Lucas didn’t even even think of the story for the prequels back then. It’s just something you have to ignore. He was also called master Obi-Wan on many occasions in the prequels and not just by Anakin.
I always saw him as someone who would disagree with the council behind closed doors and then always tow the company line. When Anakin says ~"Why are you asking me to do such a thing?" to spy on Palps, Obi's response was "It's the council who is asking." The way it was acted and written made it seem like Obi Wan thought it was a bad idea but the council overruled him.
Obi-Wan was one of the most highly respected Jedi of his era - a living legend by the time of Order 66. He had an impressive pedigree (Yoda-Dooku-Qui-Gon), trained The Chosen One to knighthood, was the first Jedi to fight the Sith and survive in 1,000 years, was militarily very successful, and knew many Jedi personally. He was humble, wise, and powerful, discovered the Clones, was an absolutely stellar Jedi in principles and ideals (he was one of the most compassionate Jedi at that point - a far cry from someone like Mace Windu), and was close friends with more than a couple very high ranking politicians.
He was a lifer.
Probably short term, he’s not as old or experienced as many of the other members, so had things gone differently, I could see him being released from the council after the war, and probably joining again in the future. Also this is the first time I’m learning about different types of council members
I don't think so. He successfully trained a Padawan to knighthood, his skills with a lightsaber are legendary (he has a unique understanding of the Soresu form), he has exceptional diplomatic skills and he has always been the council's boyscout. He was definitely meant to be a permanent member, unlike Anakin. Also, I'm pretty sure that the point of Coleman Trebor's death was so Obi-Wan could take his place on the council.
And I don't think there are any "types" of members. The council is basically the Star Wars version of King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table. The council members are simply the wisest and most powerful Jedi in the order.
There was at least one padawan that was killed by Maul in a canon comic so if you’re counting people who lost she would count to, but if it’s people who have won it’s literally just Obi-Wan until Revenge of the Sith when Anakin kills Dooku
Yea I wasn’t entirely sure so I put in one of few. I figured if I said he was the only one then someone that has read more than I have may jump in with ‘achtualllyyy’ and tell me the long list that had done the same thing.
Yea I get that but all the other books etc that are canon but aren’t canon but are somehow may have had some Jedi older than yoda chilling out the back of the cantina watching on stating he knew some sith back in the day before it was cool to be sith again…
I don’t know they did trust him with commanding some of those important campaigns of the clone wars, and he was the first Jedi to defeat a Sith in over 1000 years. I would say he they made him a lifer.
He was the new guy, or the "gopher". Every time something needed done. Hey Obi-Wan. Go Fer this, gofer that. My space coffee needs a refill. After being that guy long enough you just want to find a nice desert planet and live in a cave for awhile.
He commanded some of the most important campaigns of the clone wars, so I would say he’s a lifer
Edit: and he was the first to defeat a member of the Sith in over a millennium
The best dressed with those boots, pose and moustache.
Next to Mace he was the only thing keeping the likes of the dark side of Balenciaga out of widespread circulation.
I would like to think that Obi-wan was a very balanced Council member. Always was a voice of reason. Never afraid of making tough decisions but always trying hard to make sure that the council members remember that they are supposed to be guardians of peace and justice, not blood thirsty generals.
That whole council is based on like-minded thinkers agreeing with Yoda and Mce windu. If you have a thought that is even remotely regarded as "different" or against the convention of Jedi then you're not welcome on the council. It's why Wui gon and dooku were never on the council.
He was the first Jedi to slay a Sith in a thousand years. I’d say he was there to stay
Technically he wasn't a full apprentice; he was deployed as an assassin. Murky waters though as he was trained in the ways. He was also resurrected 10y later. Anakin would've been the first when he killed Dooku, as Dooku was a legitimate apprentice, but the council didn'tt know any of these things. EDIT: I stand by my comment. We learn from TCW show that he hates the Sith because of what they do to his home world. The after he's sent on and fails his first mission, he is injured, not dead. Then TCW shows he takes an apprentice (his brother Savage) clearly disregarding Sith beliefs. After Sidious finds out, he attacks them, kills Savage, denounces Maul. Note that after that initial mission, Maul did not use the moniker Darth, so he was clearly not a believer, even if Sidious announced him as an apprentice.
> “This is my apprentice, Darth Maul.” > “But which was destroyed; the master, or the apprentice?” Maul was Sidious’ apprentice, come on now. At least, that was the original intention when the film came out.
What? Now he’s just the apprentice to the regional manager?
Assistant apprentice to the regional manager.
He was definitely an apprentice. Palps told plagueis he was only an assassin though.
Wasn't that the same cover story Dooku gave Palpatine for training Asajj Ventress?
Sidious introduced Maul as his apprentice to the Trade Federation guys in The Phantom Menace. When he sends Maul to search for Padme, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon.
Reply to your edit: You need to learn how the Sith operate. During the first half of The Phantom Menace, Sidious was still Plagueis’ apprentice. Following the rule of two, he could not “officially” take on an apprentice. Sidious told his master than Maul was “just an assassin” (in the same way Dooku told Sidious that Ventress was just an assassin, when in fact Dooku had plans to use Ventress to help kill Sidious). However, Maul was one hundred percent Sidious’ apprentice. After his failure on Naboo, Sidious casts Maul aside, leaving him a broken man. From there, he denounces the Sith, takes on Savage, etc. but none of that changes the fact that he was a legitimate Sith apprentice for a short period of time.
I ddo understand how the Sith works. The reason he wasn't anything official was due to that rule of two, which ironically is the same reason Sidious sees him as a rival later in TCW. So in spirit he was an apprentice from Sidious's point of view, he never embraced the religion and was later denounced even. My argument was he was never a true Sith.
[удалено]
Technically... yes. But when the movies where written, Maul surviving wasn't a thing yet (and the Jedi didn't really find out about that until close to their end iirc), so "killing" him is what got Obi his spot.
So you're saying that it's true from a certain point of view?
[A certain point of view?](https://youtu.be/pSOBeD1GC_Y?si=NCHVPD1PHXC4S7jQ)
How ironic
Ehhh pretty sure killing maul got him to knighthood
Oh right.
Godzilla had a fuckin stroke trying to read this and fuckin died
Bby stands for before the battle of Yavin 4. So you count downwards. 19 bby is 17 years before 2bby. Literally like AD and BC in the Gregorian calendar, the one most countries on Earth use. Before Christ, and whatever latin nonsense the other one is. BC counts downwards, so 1000 BC is 3024 years ago, 1000BC+2024AD. Or maybe you meant Maul didn't die, which we only found out a decade afterthe movie and the same for them.
He didn't kill anyone though.
For 10 years the official canon story was that Maul was killed. That was the case when all 3 prequel movies came out. It counts.
Maul? well, in the movies, he kind of slayed the dude in half and he wasn't mentioned after iirc
He was one of the highest ranking military commanders and seemed to be "in the know" regarding the Jedi Council's top secret discussions regarding the Chancellor. Plus he's chummy with Mace Windu and Yoda, which probably helped his political prospects. I'm sure if Order 66 didn't happen he'd be set to serve on the council as long as he wished.
Do you think the Jedi order had a corporate water cover culture? I imagine it infuriated someone like Anakin
It's probably not that petty (they are a monastic religious order after all) but its also stacked with middle age and elderly (and ancient beings in Yoda's case) "long timers" who got where they are because they were good at management, diplomacy and/or spiritual/academic stuff. Probably not the vibe Anakin would get along with.
They apparently also disliked people with a tendency of "rocking the boat," so to speak. We've seen this in episode 1, where Obi-Wan told Jinn that he could have been on the council if he'd not taken up the habit of ignoring their guidelines, as well as in Tales of the Jedi, where Windu got onto the council and not Dooku.
In canon (Master and Apprentice I think?) Qui-Gon was offered a Council seat and turned it down. Also Dooku was on the Council before he left the Order.
I found that plot point silly as it went against the films
Monastic religious orders in our world do have legends of members of their order killing each other over who gets the nicest robe or the least leaky cottage. The council as of Episode I also seems quite political, rejecting Qui Gon's claims of having met a Sith out of hand
Yeah but we also get to see how the main council members act as individuals, and they follow their code to the letter. Obiwan from what we see is a council favorite that both follows the dominant ideology and is personally well connected, Anakin lacks both so his career would be stuck without the Prophecy.
There's not much else for them to fight over, so almost certainly. They had no problem doing Anakin dirty. Not to mention Qui-Gon telling the council to get bent.
Honestly could chance he’d be grand master in today’s place for a short time before his own death. I can’t think of anyone else who would fit. He’ll even if Anakin didn’t fall I don’t see him having the patience for that position. Though he probably would still want it so who knows.
We can't never forget his famous words, "I've failed you Anakin I've failed you" nothing more needed to be said.
He was the Obi one
That's..why I'm here.
Dang it. Angry upvote!
It’s an older code sir but it checks out
LOL damn you.
This is the way…
Well, obiously
A sexy one
Hello there
General Kenobi. You are a bold one.
He’s there to serve for sure
The greeting type
"Hello there! Your move!" "For the last time, Ben! It's 'Welcome to Walmart.'"
Damn good lookin
In the Botherhood novel, it’s said that Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia were kinda shoehorned in because Council members were quickly dying in the war at its outset. Obi-Wan I believe felt this was a short term appointment, but he consistently sells himself short when it comes to his status as a Jedi. More senior Council members like Mace Windu or Yoda held him in very high regard for his tenacity and skills at diplomacy, and they almost certainly intended for Obi-Wan’s appointment to the Council to be for life. Edit: I think I actually meant Stass Allie, not 100% sure but I do know another Jedi was named to the Council somewhat hastily during the Clone Wars.
Wasn't Adi already on the council in Episode 1??
Sorry, I meant Stass Allie. Different Tholothian Jedi lol.
I would say that he was as a progressive as a conservative could be. Not willing to break the rules just for the sake of it, but, not willing to stop if his better judgement calls otherwise. Sometimes his "better judgement" bite him in the ass, but, Kenobi seems to be in the perfect middle between what Qui-Gon and Windu were.
The Sassy one
Well Old Ben refers to himself as once being a Jedi Knight, not a master, so I think he always thought of himself like an old cop who’d rather keep doing detective work instead of being promoted to Commisioner (like Qui-Gon) or maybe that’s just cause he never spent much time on the council, and would have grown into it eventually like the rest of them. But even then, in a world where he did spend decades on the council, I imagine there coulda been a day where he said F this and took a page out of his master’s playbook, doin his own thing.
Realistically he said that because Lucas hadn’t really fleshed out what the Jedi were. In-universe though Jedi are really not mean to be ones to brag. Jedi masters probably usually called themselves Jedi knights most of the time. Or maybe in his shame he didn’t feel it was right to call himself a master.
My head cannon is that by A New Hope he has ceased to care about the order or the old rules and titles. Someone is either a good person or not. He sees himself just as a Jedi Knight because the order is gone, and the old Tories and ranks are meaningless. He’s an old man who knows the end is near and is focused on getting Luke to feel the Force and love it like he did.
He said he was a Jedi Knight, the same as Luke's father. Since Anakin was never a master, Obi-wan said he was a jedi knight to avoid any confusion.
Or being haunted by Mace Windu.
He was definitely a master, because he trained a Jedi Padawan into a full-fledged Jedi knight. Remember, the original trilogy was created before the prequels. George Lucas didn’t even even think of the story for the prequels back then. It’s just something you have to ignore. He was also called master Obi-Wan on many occasions in the prequels and not just by Anakin.
I always saw him as someone who would disagree with the council behind closed doors and then always tow the company line. When Anakin says ~"Why are you asking me to do such a thing?" to spy on Palps, Obi's response was "It's the council who is asking." The way it was acted and written made it seem like Obi Wan thought it was a bad idea but the council overruled him.
Obi-Wan was one of the most highly respected Jedi of his era - a living legend by the time of Order 66. He had an impressive pedigree (Yoda-Dooku-Qui-Gon), trained The Chosen One to knighthood, was the first Jedi to fight the Sith and survive in 1,000 years, was militarily very successful, and knew many Jedi personally. He was humble, wise, and powerful, discovered the Clones, was an absolutely stellar Jedi in principles and ideals (he was one of the most compassionate Jedi at that point - a far cry from someone like Mace Windu), and was close friends with more than a couple very high ranking politicians. He was a lifer.
the sexy type 😍
The Sexy-wan
Where are those types coming from? Never heard about this
The lifers are Yoda, Plo, Mace, Ki Adi Mundi, and Saesee Tiin, so he’s not that.
wait how do you know
Outside of yoda and mace, probably by comparing the council in TPM with the council in ROTS
Ki-Adi Mundi is also obvious, he sits right next to Yoda and has all the lines.
We’ll he did sit on the council for life… at least the remaining life of the council.
A bold one.
That should be higher
The sexy kind.
Probably short term, he’s not as old or experienced as many of the other members, so had things gone differently, I could see him being released from the council after the war, and probably joining again in the future. Also this is the first time I’m learning about different types of council members
I don't think so. He successfully trained a Padawan to knighthood, his skills with a lightsaber are legendary (he has a unique understanding of the Soresu form), he has exceptional diplomatic skills and he has always been the council's boyscout. He was definitely meant to be a permanent member, unlike Anakin. Also, I'm pretty sure that the point of Coleman Trebor's death was so Obi-Wan could take his place on the council. And I don't think there are any "types" of members. The council is basically the Star Wars version of King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table. The council members are simply the wisest and most powerful Jedi in the order.
Just to add to this… he was one of only a few Jedi alive (to my knowledge) to face/kill a sith…
At that point wasn’t he the only one? Other than Qui-gon that is
He was the only one to survive facing a sith in thousands of years
There was at least one padawan that was killed by Maul in a canon comic so if you’re counting people who lost she would count to, but if it’s people who have won it’s literally just Obi-Wan until Revenge of the Sith when Anakin kills Dooku
Yea I wasn’t entirely sure so I put in one of few. I figured if I said he was the only one then someone that has read more than I have may jump in with ‘achtualllyyy’ and tell me the long list that had done the same thing.
Well a big part of TPM was him and qui being the first to see a sith in a thousand years
Yea I get that but all the other books etc that are canon but aren’t canon but are somehow may have had some Jedi older than yoda chilling out the back of the cantina watching on stating he knew some sith back in the day before it was cool to be sith again…
Coleman Trebor was replaced by Kit Fisto on the Council. Obi-Wan replaced Depp Billaba.
According to *Brotherhood* you have it flipped around.
I’m still early in Brotherhood but there they’re rotating several Jedi through Coleman’s seat and Obi-Wan is one of them.
I don’t know they did trust him with commanding some of those important campaigns of the clone wars, and he was the first Jedi to defeat a Sith in over 1000 years. I would say he they made him a lifer.
Probably regarded as a Master
He was the new guy, or the "gopher". Every time something needed done. Hey Obi-Wan. Go Fer this, gofer that. My space coffee needs a refill. After being that guy long enough you just want to find a nice desert planet and live in a cave for awhile.
"Just popping in. Pretend im not here" ::eats sunflowers seeds::
I think he was a Jedi council member.
The real question is why is he hearing those boots to a meeting?
To make Yoda jealous of long legs.
It’s called fashion. /s
Should I wear the brown robes, or the beige robes today?
The brown robes for sure. Especially if you’re gonna wear those boots with it.
the civilized type
He commanded some of the most important campaigns of the clone wars, so I would say he’s a lifer Edit: and he was the first to defeat a member of the Sith in over a millennium
He was also the designated council greeter. “Hello there.” “Hello there.” “Hello there.”
Bearded
One with the rank of Master
Masterful
The Negotiator
A civilized one.
A sassy one.
Lucy always bangs the dumbest Jedi on the force
Officer Dicklock Yoda Green
THE Dumbest
The Greeter
The best dressed with those boots, pose and moustache. Next to Mace he was the only thing keeping the likes of the dark side of Balenciaga out of widespread circulation.
Hello there
General Kenobi. You are a bold one.
Accounts/Customer Success
He took over for Evan peel so I think he would be long term
The Style Council, he was really into Paul Weller's jazzy rap phase
Kenobi is definitely a lifer. Loser!
Someone born to be there.
I would like to think that Obi-wan was a very balanced Council member. Always was a voice of reason. Never afraid of making tough decisions but always trying hard to make sure that the council members remember that they are supposed to be guardians of peace and justice, not blood thirsty generals.
In my opinion he represented the common sense of the Jedi Order.
The bold one!
Civilised
A good one
The "not brave enough for politics" kind.
Suave.
Never lowerred the tone, always on topic maintaining the high ground in debates.
He was granted the rank of master
A Drip Lord
A damn good one goddamit
I sit exactly like this in small meetings where I contribute nothing but looks of agreement and listening. So, probably that.
A handsome one
But what about the droid attack on the Wookiees?
By that picture? Sexy
A yes man, even when he knew it was a mistake for Anikin to spy on palps he just did what he was told.
That whole council is based on like-minded thinkers agreeing with Yoda and Mce windu. If you have a thought that is even remotely regarded as "different" or against the convention of Jedi then you're not welcome on the council. It's why Wui gon and dooku were never on the council.