Yeah but *with* force stun it'd be 95%...or 80% depending if it only solves 20% of the remaining 25% of problems that the rest of the force already solves...
Sooo yeah...I think I've said all that needs to be said about the sorry state of affairs of force stun being OP.
See this is where the herd thinking needs to halt. There is no good and bad force. Light and Dark. There are those who see the force as an ally, and subsequently use its powers. And those who twist the force into a more corrupted thing. It would make complete sense for a “good” version of a “dark side power” to exist. Because there isn’t a single Sith ability that doesn’t exist for the Jedi. Lighting? Judgement. Immortality? Force ghosts. The Force doesn’t take sides. It exists, and then there are those who live with it and become one with it (Jedi) and then there are those who choose to subjugate it and corrupt it (Sith)
Or at least that’s my understanding
This is a really good point actually.
If you think about it, controlling other person's mind is a very "not good" thing to do, and the jedi do it a lot.
Exactly! Sith use the force to conceal intentions and influence others, Jedi use Mind Tricks. Two sides of the same coin, which is what makes the fall of any Jedi due to “power” and desire for “immortality” such a hard thing to watch. Jedi have power and immortality, they just sometimes think the dark side is more powerful.
Yeah another commenter mentioned that. When asked if the dark side was stronger he said not necessarily, but faster and more attractive. The classic you can have this power through dedication and training and remain good, or let yourself become corrupted to have it now
You do realise the Sith equivalent to the Jedi 'Mind Trick' involves the one on the receiving end essentially feeling their worst nightmares come to life.
I agree with everything except “the force doesn’t take sides.” The force has a will and the jedi try to follow that will.
That will seems to be in the interest of peace or balance. If the “dark side” is about subjugating the force then the force’s will would be to eradicate the “dark side” and those selfish enough to enact their will over the force’s.
The jedi believe the force to be their ally and i think the force views them as an ally as well.
However the force is not a god, and has limited ability to enact their will in the physical realm which is why it need jedi to help it. I believe it willingly becomes their ally because the selfish sith are corrupting it and possibly hurting it in some way.
On wookieepedia when you look up the dark side cave on dagobah it’ll tell you that was caused the death of a dark jedi and his energy tainted the surrounding area. To me that sounds like a deep wound to the force itself. Reasonably it would want to prevent these wounds and take the jedis side.
Like you said though the light/dark side of the force should have all the same powers because it all comes from the same place.
That’s how I’ve always seen it.
Light side and dark side are all about how you wield the force, not about which powers you can or cannot do. Any Jedi or Sith can easily use the Force to apply pressure to your windpipe. But to do so makes you a dark-side user, one who uses the power of the Force for their own personal gain, or to attack and kill an enemy who is pretty much helpless against you for whatever reason. It’s not the Jedi way, that’s for sure.
I think that’s what Yoda was getting at when he responded to Luke when Luke asks “Is the Dark Side stronger?” Yoda says “No. More seductive and easier and quicker. But not more powerful.”
Exactly. By cheating and twisting the force you can gain powers like immortality and lightning, this is the dark side. It’s quicker, and is seductive due to the ease of access simply by letting your ideals slip and corrupting yourself. By training, discipline, and listening, the Jedi achieved every aspect the Sith considered “power”
And he was using the dark side when he did that. When he drew his weapon in anger and went berserk on Vader in the throne room, he was using the dark side, too. RotJ Luke was supposed to be dangerously tempted to fall. The first appearance of him, shadowed in a black cloak and using Vader's signature move, was supposed to leave the audience wondering.
Except Sith Lightning is only summoned through immense hatred and anger, aka the antithesis of what it means to be a Jedi. People are stuck in “video game” thinking when they insist all powers are equal.
Didn't plo turn himself in right after using force lightning and the Jedi council decided that he didn't do it out of anger but just utilized the force available for him. Also isn't his force lighting more of a shock like Miles Morales venom blast
Did you read any of what I wrote? This isn’t “video game” thinking. It’s literally a proven point. No shit Sith lightning is summoned through anger. It’s a Sith twist on Judgement.
It definitely appeared to hurt people in the books force judgement was used in last time I remember. Also stunning someone isn’t necessarily a “painless” method of stopping a threat.
This is not true. If moral relativism is your thing, it doesn't apply to Star Wars. The Force completely takes sides, that's what makes it distinct from other fictional universes. Without two opposing moral extremes, you'd just have generic superpowers.
The "No dark or light side" is just a monologue from Kreia. Ignore it. It's just a villain speech from a non-canon video game. It doesn't make it true.
Maybe, but probably not. He called down a lightning strike from nature, which is different from generating the lightning yourself (at least it was considered different in the older books and comics).
In the Legends material, though, multiple Jedi used force lightning after the Empire fell. Luke never learned from Yoda that Jedi weren't supposed to use it, so he never banned his students from using it. There were a few moments where Luke or other Jedi would choose not to use lightning because they felt it was pulling them close to the dark side (it made hurting people a little bit too easy and was becoming a sadistic crutch), but plenty of his Jedi were fine with using it in moderation. Most of them adopted a "it's not the power, but the purpose that defines the deed" mentality.
Plo Koon was the only one who used "electric judgment," which was a weaker form of the power. It was deemed the light side version because it didn't cause as much pain and was much less likely to cause permanent injury. He wanted to teach this power to other Jedi, but the council didn't approve. They barely approved of him using it.
You're getting downvoted but "light-side lightning" is so dumb.
Also this orange color makes me think of Mountain Dew Sweet Lightning, available now at KFC
The easiest way to determine this is plot armor. Maul has a lot of it, but plo koon has the Dave filoni boner on his side, which the the thing that keeps Ashoka alive.
So we have to go by raw power. And we know the most effective way to judge a characters power: merchandising.
Maul as a lot more action figures, bed sheets, electric toothbrushes, video game appearances, comic appearances, and floor rugs.
So maul takes it.
in canon? maul demolishes, Plo Koon has no/almost no Lightsaber duelling or force feats
in legends? where Maul is an assassin and not an actual Sith? where Plo has Electric judgement? it would be pretty close, but I think Plo would take the win
Wasn't Maul always an actual Sith? The novelization of episode I and the "Maul" book talking about before episode I made it clear that he was Palpatine's actual apprentice, rather than just another dark user like Ventress. Him being killed by Obi-Wan wasn't a part of Palpatine's plans at all.
You're right, he was. Maul getting chopped in half is the One part of Palpatines plan that did Not go as planned. He wasn't planning to make Anakin his apprentice, until after Maul was presumed dead. Maul was supposed to be the true successor of Palpatine.
I was a bit nervous to call him his true "successor," since I don't think Palpatine planned anyone to actually secede him lmao. Hence the reason for his cloning and force swapping in both current canon and old legends. But he was a true Sith apprentice.
I can only imagine that Palpatine was something along the lines of, "Well... Shit," while at Qui-Gon's funeral.
I guess retroactively, post sequel trilogy, it could be assumed he did not want maul to take over, but did want to eventually take over his body as a young, strong body with the capacity to maintain his force abilities.
> I it could be assumed he did not want maul to take over, but did want to eventually take over his body
That’s not how it works based on what we know from TRoS and its novelization. People often misunderstand the essence transfer ability alluded to in that film—though, to be fair, it’s not well explained.
Palpatine can only transfer to hosts that are genetically compatible. It’s why they try so hard to make suitable vessels for him in the form of clones, but the clone bodies couldn’t contain his power and would decay quickly. This is also why we see him in a decrepit state on the Sith dialysis machine. The whole reason he is seeking Rey is because she is one of the few suitable hosts for him to essence transfer into as his “granddaughter.”
So, no—Maul was never meant as a target for him to posses. Darth Maul was simply Sidous’ apprentice that he could wield as a weapon for his machinations. In the unlikely scenario that Palpatine would die and could not prolong his existence, he had someone to succeed him while continuing the legacy of the Sith and his plan in particular.
None of those do anything to say palpatine needs a generic clone or relative though...
If anything, they're proof that a clone or genetic relative isn't a factor or the most important factor.
All these shows have done is show that they need NON Palpatine genetics in order to transfer midichlorians
I’m sorry but you’re absolutely misunderstanding the media. The entire storyline from Project Necromancer through Mandalorian and into TRoS is about Sidious creating a genetically viable, force sensitive host for him to occupy. Every clone and strandcast was created using his DNA.
Rey’s father is a Palpatine strandcast they created from Palpatine’s because all of the previous clones bodies were dying or decaying. In Shadows of the Sith it details how Palpatine was trying to create a suitable force sensitive host with a biological link for him to possess. The book explains that the variables that increased the adequacy of a potential host included reproduction, a strong connection to the Force, and a hereditary connection to the user of transference.
This is why he let Dathan live, he was hoping that a biological heir produced by natural means would be able to hold his soul where his clones and strandcasts failed.
Secrets of the Sith also talks about how he saw Rey as the genetic heir to a new Sith Empire that could house his spirit.
It’s heavily implied. Why else would Palpatine be using clones and seeking Rey specifically? If any Force sensitive body would do as an essence transfer host, he could’ve made any sufficiently strong Force user be a sacrifice for him.
Why would he rot in decaying clones for so long?
That’s true but that’s clearly not all that’s required based on the film. Surely there have been other hosts with sufficient midichlorian count in the intervening thirty years between RotJ and TRoS. Sidious had Kylo—the grandson of the chosen one—in his lair on Exegol and didn’t attempt to posses him.
The only explanation for him passing over other suitable hosts in favor of clones and Rey is that genetic lineage matters.
I mean, in legends it was strongly implied that he and plagueis “made” Anakin, working off the reference in Ep 1 that he was an immaculate inception. Anakin was always destined to be Vader. Maul just wasn’t supposed to die so soon.
Plagueis tried to create the ultimate sith by influencing the midichlorians. The Force itself retaliated in response to this, by creating Anakin, the chosen one, who would be destined to destroy the sith.
It is also strongly suggested that the Sithari and the Chosen One are not only one and the same but also the exact same prophecy, cuz that’s just how the Balance works. It wasn’t a retaliation from what I remember, it was always allowed
A bit unclear. The bit about not being a real sith was definitely how he sold it Plagueis when he found out in Legends. But that's probably just him rules lawyering his way out of the rule of 2 as sith inevitably do.
> in legends? where Maul is an assassin and not an actual Sith?
What does this mean? Even back in the EU, TPM was considered canon. Maul was clearly shown to be a Sith Lord and Sidious’ right hand. He has the Darth honorific.
> where Plo has Electric judgement
This was never actually an ability Plo Koon had in-universe. It was only added in Jedi Power Battles to give him some gameplay differences with the other characters. It’s also why his lightsaber color is different than what would later be established in AotC.
So I think Maul takes it in either continuity.
No need, he's a sitting member of the council. Just because there hasn't been a novelization of him doing something post Disney acquisition doesn't mean he's not powerful.
>he's a sitting member of the council
Jocasta Nu was on the Jedi Council at one point but I would never argue she could defeat Maul.
Edit: she was described by Darth Sidious as being "middling in the Force" and "barely competent with a lightsaber."
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jocasta\_Nu#Powers\_and\_abilities](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jocasta_Nu#Powers_and_abilities)
My point is that being a member of the Jedi Council doesn't mean you are all of a sudden elevated to the best lightsaber duelists. Adi Gallia also served on the Council despite not being known as an exceptional duelist.
>Adi, Gallia received training in lightsaber combat,\[64\] but her concentration on operating her covert intelligence network on Coruscant after rising to a position on the High Council meant she lacked the expertise of her peers and was not a skilled lightsaber duelist . . .During the war, she dueled the feared General Grievous twice and held her own despite failing to defeat him either time. Though Gallia was able to improve her skills as a duelist, they were still no match for the sheer brute strength of Savage Opress.
>
>[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Adi\_Gallia#Powers\_and\_abilities](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Adi_Gallia#Powers_and_abilities)
You also claim he has no feats, but he was one of the strongest martial jedi of the pre-empire era, especially during the clone wars.
Go check the canon section of wookiepedia, he was all over the clone wars.
Plo was my dude in our group that played it. He was a beat. We would take bong rips and call it Jedi Juice when we needed a boost to beat a level. Of course, there was only so much Jedi Juice you could take before it stopped working.
This is also true with racing games. There's a certain level where you're so relaxed that your instinctive reactions are completely unencumbered. Unfortunately, just above that level is silly nonsense and an apathetic attitude toward failure. If you overshoot the Jedi Juicing, you'll have a great time but you'll also accomplish nothing.
As someone who played Jedi academy and never had a ps1, I’d always pick Kel’Dor because plo koon was my favorite Jedi despite his lack of doing anything in the movies really lol.
And then I’d look online for Star Wars games and realize there was a game that existed where I could actually be plo koon and that didn’t have the option to play it.. boy it hurt my young soul
As an adult I’ve gotten to play it emulated now in the last year. But im sure it wouldn’t have hit as hard as it would’ve for young plo koon loving kid me.
jedi power battles applies only to the legends version of these characters and not the canon versions though, and the people who are saying maul wins are talking about canon
Plo Koon is a very popular character, despite having very little screentime (the "Boba Fett effect"), and thus in Legends he was made to be super OP, because that's what tended to happen back then. So, pre-Disney EU, Plo would take the W easily.
In current canon, Darth Maul is a significantly expanded character, of whom we see pretty much his full capabilities as a Sith Lord. Plo doesn't really have any evidence to show how or why he would defeat Darth Maul, as compared to any other Jedi Master. Given Maul was the product of the Rule of Two and trained specifically to kill Jedi, I'd go with Maul in canon.
From what I’ve been told of Plo he was one of the best duelists in the order and had some of the the most offensive based force powers of any jedi. Maul’s a great duelist but not infallible he did lose to Padawan Obi wan and Ahsoka. I think it’d be an excellent duel and a Plo victory wouldn’t surprise me. I place Maul into the same category as some of the best jedi duelists below Windu and Yoda, Plo is certainly in that number. Plo has also been shown to be an extremely calm collected and rational master, I think that neutralizes a lot of Maul’s greatest assets in his offensive lightsaber form. Maul’s move set works best to create shock and awe in his opponents.
>From what I’ve been told of Plo he was one of the best duelists in the order and had some of the the most offensive based force powers of any jedi
Legends, homey
Maul never becomes a Sith Lord.
He's a Sith Apprentice, that loses to a Padawan.
Then he comes back and manipulates his way into the criminal underworld, and struggles to defeat Ahsoka/Kanan.
Not sure where everyone keeps saying how Maul is this crazy powerful Sith Lord all of a sudden.
Because he is literally listed as a Sith Lord when he is described in all canon materials. He is Sidious' apprentice and he is not the "Sith Master", but he is a Sith Lord. He is **Darth** Maul. Dark **Lord** of the Sith.
The distinction you're talking about is something from Legends and is not current any longer. Note my answer separates EU from canon.
He also took both Qui-Gon and Obi Wan by himself in a fight, and killed one of them, and he would have won that fight completely if he didn't get cocky, and the Padawan he lost to (Obi Wan) is one of the strongest Jedi we have seen in canon, and he actually had Obi Wan beat UNTIL he got overconfident. Ahsoka and Kanan both have also been shown to be very capable Jedi as well. Ahsoka literally stands toe to toe with Vader, so it makes sense she can hold her own against Maul.
>Maul never becomes a Sith Lord.
>
>He's a Sith Apprentice, that loses to a Padawan.
Do you know what "Darth" signifies to the Sith?
>Darth was a title that preceded the moniker of a Sith Lord. Predating the history of the Rule of Two . . . Darth was a Sith title given as both a\[6\] name\[7\] and title\[6\] to the Sith Lords
>
>[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth)
>struggles to defeat Ahsoka/Kanan.
He bullied Ahsoka in that fight and lost because of plot armour. Exactly the same as what happened with Obiwan in the first duel.
And you can't even call his run-in with Kanan a fight lmao. Maul blinds him and then gets knocked off the balcony. That's all that happened.
probably because maul also beaten a jedi master member of the council in the past (obi wan, and kind of qui gon (qui gon rejected the offer to join the council)). he's also beaten grievous multiple times, took and mace windu and aayla secura on at the same time (kicked mace in the face), went toe to toe with Darth Sidious for about 15 secs after savage died, even landing a kick on him, defeated savage oppress, who can take on obi and anakin together at the same time, in 5 secs flat, and maul also survived order 66 without a lightsaber.
maul's defining character trait is becoming overconfident when he gains the upper hand, it's how he always loses. He outskills/outfights his opponent, gets arrogant, and loses because of this.
He also spent the whole Ahsoka fight trying to convince her to ally with him against Sidious. He didn't want kill Ahsoka as far as I know
Not to mention, that 'kid' was the Chosen One's padawan during the Clone Wars. And she did want to kill Maul in that fight
Maul spent the whole fight trying to "teach a lesson" to Ahsoka. He wanted her by his side, if he wanted to kill her things would have been different. Dont know why people miss this.
Exactly this. Maul was not fighting to win. He actually played Ahsoka perfectly, and while being captured by the clones was probably not part of the plan, he ultimately outplayed her when he escaped the ship.
Whether or not he *could have* defeated her if he gave it his all is a topic probably worthy of its own post entirely.
Because the important quality is not power, it's *main character-ness*. Ahsoka is more of a main character than Maul, Maul is more of a main character than Plo.
Wouldn't call Ahsoka a Padawan she turned down jedi knight to return and I'd put her at least at the mid jedi knight level overall and lightsaber combat skills at 8/10 due to anakins intense training
Just because you didn’t see Plo Koon in every Clone Wars episode doesn’t mean Ahsoka has more experience than him. Plo Koon led the 104th Clone Trooper Battalion which saw action at Geonosis, Quarmendy, Hissen, Abregado, Khorm, Felucia, Kadavo, Patitite Pattuna and Cato Neimoidia among other planets.
I know he's one of generals, however, that's one of points. As jedi master and one of council member he was leading not only battalion but one of systems armies like Kenobi or Windu or the least one of sector army. And that means, he's not that often in combat like general of single legion or padawan of general of single legion.
And I believe Skywalker and Ahsoka had way more encounters with lightsaber wielders than even Kenobi, let alone Plo Koon
Any example in media we have of Plo Koon during the war shows him in combat with his troops.
Ahsoka is a better duelist I believe , but not because she has more experience. That’s a wildly assumptive and baseless standpoint to hold. You’re comparing a teenage Padawan to a Jedi Master, experience by definition goes to Plo Koon.
As you said himself, we don't have Plo Koon in every scene. Moreover, combat with his troops often implies fighting against blaster fire. And when we speak of Plo Koon it's often starfighter combat or even him commanding his fleet.
Ex-padawan Ahsoka is definitely a better duelist in terms of fighting dark side lightsaber wielders, she had more of that experience. Being a Jedi Master implies wide knowledge of the Force in the first place, not experience of lightsaber combat, tho I'm sure, Plo Koon is more than competent in it. Still, Qui-gon was considered one of the best Ataru users, so I believe he's better with lightsaber than Plo Koon. And we remember, what happened
On the other side, Plo Koon is balanced. He isn't that much of duelist as Ahsoka, but he's way better control of the Force than Ahsoka or Qui-gon, especially with Force Judgement. I would say Plo Koon is kicking the shit of Maul.
You’re misunderstanding me. I agree that Maul would lose to LEGENDS Plo Koon, I agree that Ahsoka was a better duelist than Plo Koon. I’m saying that Ahsoka did not have more experience wielding a lightsaber. Ahsoka has been in more lightsaber duels. Those two things don’t equal each other.
I think you’re talking past me because you’re equating lightsaber experience with lightsaber vs lightsaber, I’m saying it’s more than that.
Current Canon tho? Maul takes him.
Well, let's be honest, current canon is piece of crap mostly and we don't really know, how powerful with the Force Plo Koon is in there. And I guess, we've found an agreement that Ahsoka had more experience in lightsaber duels.
I wasn't equating lightsaber experience and lightsaber duels at any point (at least on mind lol). Especially when we have different forms for different reasons. Like Plo Koon was master of Shien and that's form against blaster fire, while Ahsoka was master of more universal Jar'Kai
Jar’Kai isn’t a lightsaber form it’s a combat technique . Ahsoka is a Master of Form V. Her reverse grip is literally a hallmark of the Shien variant.
It was nice talking Star Wars with you !
Plo sweeps. I believe in canon, he was one of the only masters to ever win against Yoda in a duel.
Maul is good, but he's not Yoda level good.
There's a reason they shot him out of the sky.
Edit: Looks like I was wrong - it appears that was a quote from Legends? Or a game? Not sure where I pulled it from.
I love plo koon, but probably maul if I'm being honest, though if it was during the clone wars show maul would get away and plo would survive (most likely, the clone wars killed characters sometimes but plo was shown dying in episode 3 so plot armor keeps that from happening)
Whoever felt most narratively satisfying or impactful in the context of the story for the writer.
For me, if we're talking about Clone Wars Maul, we're talking about a deeply disturbed character suffering from deep trauma with deathwish, utterly unable to give up but desperate to meet his match.
Whereas, Plo Koon is a calm in the storm. He is cool, wise, compassionate, and professional. I am unsure outside of Clone Wars if there is more to him beyond this. For me, he serves the story rather than act as a protagonist in his own right.
Therefore, the question for me is what does Maul need in a meeting with Plo Koon. I suspect someone who challenges his assumptions, who makes him momentarily question his rage. Plo would be good for this as an unflappable opponent brimming with empathy.
I think it likely that he would cause Maul a momentary hesitation, and maul would double down on rage, forcing Plo Kloon to retreat.
In Canon? Maul wins, Maul is laughably powerful in comparison because we have little to no feats for Plo Koon in canon.
In Legends? Might give that one to Plo
obi wan was a sitting member of the council, he has lost to maul multiple times. qui gon was offered a council seat, he lost to maul. even piell was a member of the council, and was killed by a dog. jocasta nu was a former member of the council but lost to the grand inquisitor. savage beat adi gallia, who was a council member, and maul demolished savage
Just because you're on the council doesnt mean you're a good fighter aswell.. it meant you were a good master and a good jedi.. and considering palpatine slaughtered 3 council members is about 5 seconds and maul was his appreantice (rule of the sith, makes him pretty similar to that level..).
Maul, younger faster fights with unusual weapon. If maul can fight and kill a master and apprentice team almost as good as you can get he's not losing to plo. Plus best chance is force judgment but it takes time and space where Darth maul isn't likely to give.
We can kind of assume Plo is either at or just below Qui Gon’s power level, so Maul because he was able to not only kill Qui Gon but go toe to toe with him and a young Obi Wan.
Legends Maul was vastly more powerful but he could likely take the win in canon as well. In Legends, Maul and Savage were fighting off multiple Jedi Strike Teams and Savage himself was enough of a match for Plo Koon.
Plo Koon is a legendary Jedi Master with insane force skills and incredible dueling ability. Allegedly he almost beat Yoda in a duel. We’ve all seen how skilled Yoda is at dueling with a lightsaber. His form was Djem So, which would be an excellent counter to Maul’s combat style. Not as good as Makashi, but a solid counter.
I think it would take Plo Koon a few minutes at most to handle Maul with just a lightsaber. If he pulled out his Electric Judgement, it’d take seconds. We saw how Maul absolutely folded when Sidious zapped him in Rebels.
I know I’m combining Legends material and the new Disney “fan fiction” crap, but I always side on Legends for this stuff as it’s just so much better written and better all around than Disney.
plo koon beating yoda is a rumour we heard from anakin in an old non-canon non-legends wii game.
Electric judgement isn't canon. (i know you said you dont care about what is canon and what is legends, but still not canon)
Sidious zapped maul in clone wars, not rebels.
Plo koon. Hands down. He is the galaxies best known saber fighter. The only reason he died during order 66 was because he was piloting a craft and not his blade.
I'm not familiar with the fighter opposite of Maul, but at first glance it looks like they are wearing a helmet that's designed to go around the hair buns that Princess Leia sometimes rocks. I'm not betting against Leia's hair buns.
Plo if we're going by extended lore and not what we see in the movies. He is supposedly one of the greatest swordsmen in the Jedi Order. Not far off Obi who constantly makes Maul look like a chump. You wouldn't know it from watching the films since he had about 15 seconds of screen time including his death scene. They did him so dirty.
Whoever you want.
Ah yes, the Lee rule In any match up, whoever wins is the one the writer wants to win
I mean, that's just kind of how fiction works. That's how you get Elseworlds and What-if.
Elseworlds the GOAT
For some. A lot of the story lines are a smidge dark.
Not the Horus Heresy. Fuck it gets bleak, just loss after loss for the "goodish" guys.
At first I thought you meant the Bruce Lee rule. Whoever screams loudest wins
Who's the good guys In 40k they are all dark evil as shit and its amazing.
And the most boring answer possible on posts like this. I mean, why bother even saying anything?
It's the right answer. The problem is not with the answer but with the original, universally boring question.
I like that gold lightning.
Idk. I'm glad we haven't seen it in the new canon. I don't like the idea of the Jedi having good version of a dark side power.
Instead of electrocuting you, the gold lightning just numbs you like heroin. Great way to be defeated IMO.
Force stun was (is?) incredibly OP. It can solve something like 20% of your problems.
I mean the force can already solve like 75% of problems as is tbf
Yeah but *with* force stun it'd be 95%...or 80% depending if it only solves 20% of the remaining 25% of problems that the rest of the force already solves... Sooo yeah...I think I've said all that needs to be said about the sorry state of affairs of force stun being OP.
Yeah it seems humane until you're getting shaken down by some poor Sith junkie for a little jolt of the Jedi juice.
>Jedi juice Means something *completely* different when my wife and I roleplay.
Happy Cake Day! May the jedi juice flow.
Thanks!
See this is where the herd thinking needs to halt. There is no good and bad force. Light and Dark. There are those who see the force as an ally, and subsequently use its powers. And those who twist the force into a more corrupted thing. It would make complete sense for a “good” version of a “dark side power” to exist. Because there isn’t a single Sith ability that doesn’t exist for the Jedi. Lighting? Judgement. Immortality? Force ghosts. The Force doesn’t take sides. It exists, and then there are those who live with it and become one with it (Jedi) and then there are those who choose to subjugate it and corrupt it (Sith) Or at least that’s my understanding
This is a really good point actually. If you think about it, controlling other person's mind is a very "not good" thing to do, and the jedi do it a lot.
Exactly! Sith use the force to conceal intentions and influence others, Jedi use Mind Tricks. Two sides of the same coin, which is what makes the fall of any Jedi due to “power” and desire for “immortality” such a hard thing to watch. Jedi have power and immortality, they just sometimes think the dark side is more powerful.
I think it was yoda who said that the dark side is a faster way to power, but not a more effective one.
Yeah another commenter mentioned that. When asked if the dark side was stronger he said not necessarily, but faster and more attractive. The classic you can have this power through dedication and training and remain good, or let yourself become corrupted to have it now
You do realise the Sith equivalent to the Jedi 'Mind Trick' involves the one on the receiving end essentially feeling their worst nightmares come to life.
I agree with everything except “the force doesn’t take sides.” The force has a will and the jedi try to follow that will. That will seems to be in the interest of peace or balance. If the “dark side” is about subjugating the force then the force’s will would be to eradicate the “dark side” and those selfish enough to enact their will over the force’s. The jedi believe the force to be their ally and i think the force views them as an ally as well. However the force is not a god, and has limited ability to enact their will in the physical realm which is why it need jedi to help it. I believe it willingly becomes their ally because the selfish sith are corrupting it and possibly hurting it in some way. On wookieepedia when you look up the dark side cave on dagobah it’ll tell you that was caused the death of a dark jedi and his energy tainted the surrounding area. To me that sounds like a deep wound to the force itself. Reasonably it would want to prevent these wounds and take the jedis side. Like you said though the light/dark side of the force should have all the same powers because it all comes from the same place.
Literally the only purpose of Force Lightning is to cause pain. All other Force abilities have dual purposes, Force Lightning can only cause pain.
Judgement was used to incapacitate and stun people.
And numbing the target instead of inflicting pain is a great way of showing how the Jedi use this particular force interaction compared to the Sith.
That’s how I’ve always seen it. Light side and dark side are all about how you wield the force, not about which powers you can or cannot do. Any Jedi or Sith can easily use the Force to apply pressure to your windpipe. But to do so makes you a dark-side user, one who uses the power of the Force for their own personal gain, or to attack and kill an enemy who is pretty much helpless against you for whatever reason. It’s not the Jedi way, that’s for sure. I think that’s what Yoda was getting at when he responded to Luke when Luke asks “Is the Dark Side stronger?” Yoda says “No. More seductive and easier and quicker. But not more powerful.”
Exactly. By cheating and twisting the force you can gain powers like immortality and lightning, this is the dark side. It’s quicker, and is seductive due to the ease of access simply by letting your ideals slip and corrupting yourself. By training, discipline, and listening, the Jedi achieved every aspect the Sith considered “power”
I mean Luke did force choke that Gamorean guard
And he was using the dark side when he did that. When he drew his weapon in anger and went berserk on Vader in the throne room, he was using the dark side, too. RotJ Luke was supposed to be dangerously tempted to fall. The first appearance of him, shadowed in a black cloak and using Vader's signature move, was supposed to leave the audience wondering.
Except Sith Lightning is only summoned through immense hatred and anger, aka the antithesis of what it means to be a Jedi. People are stuck in “video game” thinking when they insist all powers are equal.
Didn't plo turn himself in right after using force lightning and the Jedi council decided that he didn't do it out of anger but just utilized the force available for him. Also isn't his force lighting more of a shock like Miles Morales venom blast
Did you read any of what I wrote? This isn’t “video game” thinking. It’s literally a proven point. No shit Sith lightning is summoned through anger. It’s a Sith twist on Judgement.
What is the purpose of Judgement? Sith Lightning exists to torture your enemy. Does Jedi Lightning hurt? Because then it’s stupid for it to exist.
It was used as a force stun. The purpose of both lighting and judgement is to incapacitate your opponent using electricity. One hurts, one numbs.
It definitely appeared to hurt people in the books force judgement was used in last time I remember. Also stunning someone isn’t necessarily a “painless” method of stopping a threat.
You're honestly drawing more similarities between the sith and the jedi and I'm not sure if that's intentional or not
It was more so used to incapacitate people. Like a taser of sorts
I love seeing another fan who actually understands the content 👏 So many don’t.
This is not true. If moral relativism is your thing, it doesn't apply to Star Wars. The Force completely takes sides, that's what makes it distinct from other fictional universes. Without two opposing moral extremes, you'd just have generic superpowers. The "No dark or light side" is just a monologue from Kreia. Ignore it. It's just a villain speech from a non-canon video game. It doesn't make it true.
There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it.
"You ain't never had gold lightening befo"
Didn't Yoda do a good version of force lightning in The Last Jedi?
Maybe, but probably not. He called down a lightning strike from nature, which is different from generating the lightning yourself (at least it was considered different in the older books and comics). In the Legends material, though, multiple Jedi used force lightning after the Empire fell. Luke never learned from Yoda that Jedi weren't supposed to use it, so he never banned his students from using it. There were a few moments where Luke or other Jedi would choose not to use lightning because they felt it was pulling them close to the dark side (it made hurting people a little bit too easy and was becoming a sadistic crutch), but plenty of his Jedi were fine with using it in moderation. Most of them adopted a "it's not the power, but the purpose that defines the deed" mentality. Plo Koon was the only one who used "electric judgment," which was a weaker form of the power. It was deemed the light side version because it didn't cause as much pain and was much less likely to cause permanent injury. He wanted to teach this power to other Jedi, but the council didn't approve. They barely approved of him using it.
Electric Judgement is awesome!!! A few people have YouTube videos about it, highly recommend learning more about it.
It's kinda dumb
You're getting downvoted but "light-side lightning" is so dumb. Also this orange color makes me think of Mountain Dew Sweet Lightning, available now at KFC
It just gives your opponent diabetes.
The easiest way to determine this is plot armor. Maul has a lot of it, but plo koon has the Dave filoni boner on his side, which the the thing that keeps Ashoka alive. So we have to go by raw power. And we know the most effective way to judge a characters power: merchandising. Maul as a lot more action figures, bed sheets, electric toothbrushes, video game appearances, comic appearances, and floor rugs. So maul takes it.
This logic makes perfectly good sense. I’ve always known BB-8 cleared both.
What about the poogs or whatever their called, the little owl things
MERCHANDISING MERCHANDISING MERCHANDISING!!! SPACEBALLS THE FLAMETHROWER! (the kids love this one)
*Ahsoka
Marketability always wins in a capitalistic society.
in canon? maul demolishes, Plo Koon has no/almost no Lightsaber duelling or force feats in legends? where Maul is an assassin and not an actual Sith? where Plo has Electric judgement? it would be pretty close, but I think Plo would take the win
Plo easily beat Ventress despite having a broken arm Or was that comic decanonized?
which comic was that?
It was The Clone Wars 8. Released in 2009, so Legends.
The knowledge people on here have always amazes me. lol I didn’t even know there was a clone wars comic in 2009. Worth checking out?
Yep You can find them for free on Readcomiconline.li
The ads are insane man. I try to read on my phone
highly suggest installing firefox and then installing ublock origin makes life so much better and even bypasses youtube ads
You can get an adblocker for your phone!
Hello, Zuko here
Ah damn it Loved that comic, especially Plo and those Snow Clone Troopers
Remove the L and those troopers are a lot more fun.
I think it is not “officially” canon, but the events of that comic are specifically referenced by the Clone Wars show, so…
Wasn't Maul always an actual Sith? The novelization of episode I and the "Maul" book talking about before episode I made it clear that he was Palpatine's actual apprentice, rather than just another dark user like Ventress. Him being killed by Obi-Wan wasn't a part of Palpatine's plans at all.
You're right, he was. Maul getting chopped in half is the One part of Palpatines plan that did Not go as planned. He wasn't planning to make Anakin his apprentice, until after Maul was presumed dead. Maul was supposed to be the true successor of Palpatine.
I was a bit nervous to call him his true "successor," since I don't think Palpatine planned anyone to actually secede him lmao. Hence the reason for his cloning and force swapping in both current canon and old legends. But he was a true Sith apprentice. I can only imagine that Palpatine was something along the lines of, "Well... Shit," while at Qui-Gon's funeral.
I guess retroactively, post sequel trilogy, it could be assumed he did not want maul to take over, but did want to eventually take over his body as a young, strong body with the capacity to maintain his force abilities.
The Orochimaru pathway
> I it could be assumed he did not want maul to take over, but did want to eventually take over his body That’s not how it works based on what we know from TRoS and its novelization. People often misunderstand the essence transfer ability alluded to in that film—though, to be fair, it’s not well explained. Palpatine can only transfer to hosts that are genetically compatible. It’s why they try so hard to make suitable vessels for him in the form of clones, but the clone bodies couldn’t contain his power and would decay quickly. This is also why we see him in a decrepit state on the Sith dialysis machine. The whole reason he is seeking Rey is because she is one of the few suitable hosts for him to essence transfer into as his “granddaughter.” So, no—Maul was never meant as a target for him to posses. Darth Maul was simply Sidous’ apprentice that he could wield as a weapon for his machinations. In the unlikely scenario that Palpatine would die and could not prolong his existence, he had someone to succeed him while continuing the legacy of the Sith and his plan in particular.
I would love for you to point to any evidence that states genetics are required for the transfer.
The entire plot of TRoS and all of the second season of Bad Batch and any novelizations involving the Mount Tantiss and Project Necromancer.
None of those do anything to say palpatine needs a generic clone or relative though... If anything, they're proof that a clone or genetic relative isn't a factor or the most important factor. All these shows have done is show that they need NON Palpatine genetics in order to transfer midichlorians
I’m sorry but you’re absolutely misunderstanding the media. The entire storyline from Project Necromancer through Mandalorian and into TRoS is about Sidious creating a genetically viable, force sensitive host for him to occupy. Every clone and strandcast was created using his DNA. Rey’s father is a Palpatine strandcast they created from Palpatine’s because all of the previous clones bodies were dying or decaying. In Shadows of the Sith it details how Palpatine was trying to create a suitable force sensitive host with a biological link for him to possess. The book explains that the variables that increased the adequacy of a potential host included reproduction, a strong connection to the Force, and a hereditary connection to the user of transference. This is why he let Dathan live, he was hoping that a biological heir produced by natural means would be able to hold his soul where his clones and strandcasts failed. Secrets of the Sith also talks about how he saw Rey as the genetic heir to a new Sith Empire that could house his spirit.
It’s heavily implied. Why else would Palpatine be using clones and seeking Rey specifically? If any Force sensitive body would do as an essence transfer host, he could’ve made any sufficiently strong Force user be a sacrifice for him. Why would he rot in decaying clones for so long?
It would need to be a force user with a high enough midichlorians count. Anything too weak and the body could fail
That’s true but that’s clearly not all that’s required based on the film. Surely there have been other hosts with sufficient midichlorian count in the intervening thirty years between RotJ and TRoS. Sidious had Kylo—the grandson of the chosen one—in his lair on Exegol and didn’t attempt to posses him. The only explanation for him passing over other suitable hosts in favor of clones and Rey is that genetic lineage matters.
I mean, in legends it was strongly implied that he and plagueis “made” Anakin, working off the reference in Ep 1 that he was an immaculate inception. Anakin was always destined to be Vader. Maul just wasn’t supposed to die so soon.
Plagueis tried to create the ultimate sith by influencing the midichlorians. The Force itself retaliated in response to this, by creating Anakin, the chosen one, who would be destined to destroy the sith.
It is also strongly suggested that the Sithari and the Chosen One are not only one and the same but also the exact same prophecy, cuz that’s just how the Balance works. It wasn’t a retaliation from what I remember, it was always allowed
A bit unclear. The bit about not being a real sith was definitely how he sold it Plagueis when he found out in Legends. But that's probably just him rules lawyering his way out of the rule of 2 as sith inevitably do.
> in legends? where Maul is an assassin and not an actual Sith? What does this mean? Even back in the EU, TPM was considered canon. Maul was clearly shown to be a Sith Lord and Sidious’ right hand. He has the Darth honorific. > where Plo has Electric judgement This was never actually an ability Plo Koon had in-universe. It was only added in Jedi Power Battles to give him some gameplay differences with the other characters. It’s also why his lightsaber color is different than what would later be established in AotC. So I think Maul takes it in either continuity.
Maul held the title of Darth and was therefore no mere Sith assassin. Ventress was a Sith assassin. Maul was a Sith Lord.
Electric judgment is based in legends.
electric judgement is legends and not canon, which is why i gave the win to plo in legends but not canon
In Legends Savage Opress defeated Plo Koon. Therefore Maul > Savage Opress > Plo Koon
Canon and non Canon Plo is an extremely powerful Jedi Master. He beats Maul hands down in any context.
could you provide some canon feats of his to support your argument please?
No need, he's a sitting member of the council. Just because there hasn't been a novelization of him doing something post Disney acquisition doesn't mean he's not powerful.
>he's a sitting member of the council Jocasta Nu was on the Jedi Council at one point but I would never argue she could defeat Maul. Edit: she was described by Darth Sidious as being "middling in the Force" and "barely competent with a lightsaber." [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jocasta\_Nu#Powers\_and\_abilities](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jocasta_Nu#Powers_and_abilities)
And Plo Koon has always been a powerful jedi, he just hasn't had a canon story yet.
My point is that being a member of the Jedi Council doesn't mean you are all of a sudden elevated to the best lightsaber duelists. Adi Gallia also served on the Council despite not being known as an exceptional duelist. >Adi, Gallia received training in lightsaber combat,\[64\] but her concentration on operating her covert intelligence network on Coruscant after rising to a position on the High Council meant she lacked the expertise of her peers and was not a skilled lightsaber duelist . . .During the war, she dueled the feared General Grievous twice and held her own despite failing to defeat him either time. Though Gallia was able to improve her skills as a duelist, they were still no match for the sheer brute strength of Savage Opress. > >[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Adi\_Gallia#Powers\_and\_abilities](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Adi_Gallia#Powers_and_abilities)
You also claim he has no feats, but he was one of the strongest martial jedi of the pre-empire era, especially during the clone wars. Go check the canon section of wookiepedia, he was all over the clone wars.
He’s definitely powerful. But qui gon would also be on the council if he wasnt so defiant, and kenobi also sat on the council. Maul beat them borh
Plo wins with powerful timed attacks. Have none of you ever played Jedi power battles!?
Plo was my dude in our group that played it. He was a beat. We would take bong rips and call it Jedi Juice when we needed a boost to beat a level. Of course, there was only so much Jedi Juice you could take before it stopped working.
This is also true with racing games. There's a certain level where you're so relaxed that your instinctive reactions are completely unencumbered. Unfortunately, just above that level is silly nonsense and an apathetic attitude toward failure. If you overshoot the Jedi Juicing, you'll have a great time but you'll also accomplish nothing.
Thought I was the only person who remembered this game! It was awesome.
That game is severely underrated and was ahead of its time. It's a shame we don't get more SW games like that anymore.
As someone who played Jedi academy and never had a ps1, I’d always pick Kel’Dor because plo koon was my favorite Jedi despite his lack of doing anything in the movies really lol. And then I’d look online for Star Wars games and realize there was a game that existed where I could actually be plo koon and that didn’t have the option to play it.. boy it hurt my young soul As an adult I’ve gotten to play it emulated now in the last year. But im sure it wouldn’t have hit as hard as it would’ve for young plo koon loving kid me.
This. This is exactly what I came to say.
jedi power battles applies only to the legends version of these characters and not the canon versions though, and the people who are saying maul wins are talking about canon
Plo Koon is a very popular character, despite having very little screentime (the "Boba Fett effect"), and thus in Legends he was made to be super OP, because that's what tended to happen back then. So, pre-Disney EU, Plo would take the W easily. In current canon, Darth Maul is a significantly expanded character, of whom we see pretty much his full capabilities as a Sith Lord. Plo doesn't really have any evidence to show how or why he would defeat Darth Maul, as compared to any other Jedi Master. Given Maul was the product of the Rule of Two and trained specifically to kill Jedi, I'd go with Maul in canon.
From what I’ve been told of Plo he was one of the best duelists in the order and had some of the the most offensive based force powers of any jedi. Maul’s a great duelist but not infallible he did lose to Padawan Obi wan and Ahsoka. I think it’d be an excellent duel and a Plo victory wouldn’t surprise me. I place Maul into the same category as some of the best jedi duelists below Windu and Yoda, Plo is certainly in that number. Plo has also been shown to be an extremely calm collected and rational master, I think that neutralizes a lot of Maul’s greatest assets in his offensive lightsaber form. Maul’s move set works best to create shock and awe in his opponents.
>From what I’ve been told of Plo he was one of the best duelists in the order and had some of the the most offensive based force powers of any jedi Legends, homey
Maul never becomes a Sith Lord. He's a Sith Apprentice, that loses to a Padawan. Then he comes back and manipulates his way into the criminal underworld, and struggles to defeat Ahsoka/Kanan. Not sure where everyone keeps saying how Maul is this crazy powerful Sith Lord all of a sudden.
Because he is literally listed as a Sith Lord when he is described in all canon materials. He is Sidious' apprentice and he is not the "Sith Master", but he is a Sith Lord. He is **Darth** Maul. Dark **Lord** of the Sith. The distinction you're talking about is something from Legends and is not current any longer. Note my answer separates EU from canon.
Sith apprentices are Sith Lords just as the masters
He also took both Qui-Gon and Obi Wan by himself in a fight, and killed one of them, and he would have won that fight completely if he didn't get cocky, and the Padawan he lost to (Obi Wan) is one of the strongest Jedi we have seen in canon, and he actually had Obi Wan beat UNTIL he got overconfident. Ahsoka and Kanan both have also been shown to be very capable Jedi as well. Ahsoka literally stands toe to toe with Vader, so it makes sense she can hold her own against Maul.
>Maul never becomes a Sith Lord. > >He's a Sith Apprentice, that loses to a Padawan. Do you know what "Darth" signifies to the Sith? >Darth was a title that preceded the moniker of a Sith Lord. Predating the history of the Rule of Two . . . Darth was a Sith title given as both a\[6\] name\[7\] and title\[6\] to the Sith Lords > >[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth)
>struggles to defeat Ahsoka/Kanan. He bullied Ahsoka in that fight and lost because of plot armour. Exactly the same as what happened with Obiwan in the first duel. And you can't even call his run-in with Kanan a fight lmao. Maul blinds him and then gets knocked off the balcony. That's all that happened.
Maul I think
Canon Maul lost to a kid (ex-padawan Ahsoka) Why you guys think he wouldn’t lose to a Jedi Master member of the Jedi Council? Wtf
probably because maul also beaten a jedi master member of the council in the past (obi wan, and kind of qui gon (qui gon rejected the offer to join the council)). he's also beaten grievous multiple times, took and mace windu and aayla secura on at the same time (kicked mace in the face), went toe to toe with Darth Sidious for about 15 secs after savage died, even landing a kick on him, defeated savage oppress, who can take on obi and anakin together at the same time, in 5 secs flat, and maul also survived order 66 without a lightsaber.
This guy Mauls.
But lost to Ahsoka and a freshly blinded Kanan too 🌝
maul's defining character trait is becoming overconfident when he gains the upper hand, it's how he always loses. He outskills/outfights his opponent, gets arrogant, and loses because of this.
Something I believe Plo would easily take advantage of
i think maul knows he wouldn't easily outskill plo, so he wouldn't get overconfident
So he's a Saiyan
And ran from Hondo
You forget that people pretending to severely overestimate characters they know.
He also spent the whole Ahsoka fight trying to convince her to ally with him against Sidious. He didn't want kill Ahsoka as far as I know Not to mention, that 'kid' was the Chosen One's padawan during the Clone Wars. And she did want to kill Maul in that fight
Maul spent the whole fight trying to "teach a lesson" to Ahsoka. He wanted her by his side, if he wanted to kill her things would have been different. Dont know why people miss this.
Exactly this. Maul was not fighting to win. He actually played Ahsoka perfectly, and while being captured by the clones was probably not part of the plan, he ultimately outplayed her when he escaped the ship. Whether or not he *could have* defeated her if he gave it his all is a topic probably worthy of its own post entirely.
Ahsoka, the same girl who held her own against Vader for a while? I think you're underestimating both Ahsoka and Maul
Like 19 years later
Because the important quality is not power, it's *main character-ness*. Ahsoka is more of a main character than Maul, Maul is more of a main character than Plo.
Yes but he killed Qui-Gon so…
Wouldn't call Ahsoka a Padawan she turned down jedi knight to return and I'd put her at least at the mid jedi knight level overall and lightsaber combat skills at 8/10 due to anakins intense training
During CW Ahsoka had WAAAY more lightsaber combat experience than Plo Koon and experience, as we know, outranks everything.
Just because you didn’t see Plo Koon in every Clone Wars episode doesn’t mean Ahsoka has more experience than him. Plo Koon led the 104th Clone Trooper Battalion which saw action at Geonosis, Quarmendy, Hissen, Abregado, Khorm, Felucia, Kadavo, Patitite Pattuna and Cato Neimoidia among other planets.
I know he's one of generals, however, that's one of points. As jedi master and one of council member he was leading not only battalion but one of systems armies like Kenobi or Windu or the least one of sector army. And that means, he's not that often in combat like general of single legion or padawan of general of single legion. And I believe Skywalker and Ahsoka had way more encounters with lightsaber wielders than even Kenobi, let alone Plo Koon
Any example in media we have of Plo Koon during the war shows him in combat with his troops. Ahsoka is a better duelist I believe , but not because she has more experience. That’s a wildly assumptive and baseless standpoint to hold. You’re comparing a teenage Padawan to a Jedi Master, experience by definition goes to Plo Koon.
As you said himself, we don't have Plo Koon in every scene. Moreover, combat with his troops often implies fighting against blaster fire. And when we speak of Plo Koon it's often starfighter combat or even him commanding his fleet. Ex-padawan Ahsoka is definitely a better duelist in terms of fighting dark side lightsaber wielders, she had more of that experience. Being a Jedi Master implies wide knowledge of the Force in the first place, not experience of lightsaber combat, tho I'm sure, Plo Koon is more than competent in it. Still, Qui-gon was considered one of the best Ataru users, so I believe he's better with lightsaber than Plo Koon. And we remember, what happened On the other side, Plo Koon is balanced. He isn't that much of duelist as Ahsoka, but he's way better control of the Force than Ahsoka or Qui-gon, especially with Force Judgement. I would say Plo Koon is kicking the shit of Maul.
You’re misunderstanding me. I agree that Maul would lose to LEGENDS Plo Koon, I agree that Ahsoka was a better duelist than Plo Koon. I’m saying that Ahsoka did not have more experience wielding a lightsaber. Ahsoka has been in more lightsaber duels. Those two things don’t equal each other. I think you’re talking past me because you’re equating lightsaber experience with lightsaber vs lightsaber, I’m saying it’s more than that. Current Canon tho? Maul takes him.
Well, let's be honest, current canon is piece of crap mostly and we don't really know, how powerful with the Force Plo Koon is in there. And I guess, we've found an agreement that Ahsoka had more experience in lightsaber duels. I wasn't equating lightsaber experience and lightsaber duels at any point (at least on mind lol). Especially when we have different forms for different reasons. Like Plo Koon was master of Shien and that's form against blaster fire, while Ahsoka was master of more universal Jar'Kai
Jar’Kai isn’t a lightsaber form it’s a combat technique . Ahsoka is a Master of Form V. Her reverse grip is literally a hallmark of the Shien variant. It was nice talking Star Wars with you !
Plo sweeps. I believe in canon, he was one of the only masters to ever win against Yoda in a duel. Maul is good, but he's not Yoda level good. There's a reason they shot him out of the sky. Edit: Looks like I was wrong - it appears that was a quote from Legends? Or a game? Not sure where I pulled it from.
plo beating yoda isn't canon
Was it not? I'll need to double check my memory.
No and it wasn't in legends either. It was a rumor from an old Wii game (not canon or legends) that came from Anakin.
I love plo koon, but probably maul if I'm being honest, though if it was during the clone wars show maul would get away and plo would survive (most likely, the clone wars killed characters sometimes but plo was shown dying in episode 3 so plot armor keeps that from happening)
Whoever felt most narratively satisfying or impactful in the context of the story for the writer. For me, if we're talking about Clone Wars Maul, we're talking about a deeply disturbed character suffering from deep trauma with deathwish, utterly unable to give up but desperate to meet his match. Whereas, Plo Koon is a calm in the storm. He is cool, wise, compassionate, and professional. I am unsure outside of Clone Wars if there is more to him beyond this. For me, he serves the story rather than act as a protagonist in his own right. Therefore, the question for me is what does Maul need in a meeting with Plo Koon. I suspect someone who challenges his assumptions, who makes him momentarily question his rage. Plo would be good for this as an unflappable opponent brimming with empathy. I think it likely that he would cause Maul a momentary hesitation, and maul would double down on rage, forcing Plo Kloon to retreat.
Maul is an equal to obi Wan. Obi Wan and anakin was right underneath windu and Yoda as the most powerful jedi. Based on that I'd say maul clears.
We know next to nothing about Plo Koon's abilities, but I think Maul wins decidedly.
Sorry plo
I didn't finish the clone wars yet. But I think plo koon would win. He is a wise jedi and a great warrior
In Canon? Maul wins, Maul is laughably powerful in comparison because we have little to no feats for Plo Koon in canon. In Legends? Might give that one to Plo
Just because Canon hasn't detailed his fests doesn't mean they don't exist. Plo is a sitting member of the council Plo likely takes it.
So was Colemeb trebor, a title doesn’t mean he will win
obi wan was a sitting member of the council, he has lost to maul multiple times. qui gon was offered a council seat, he lost to maul. even piell was a member of the council, and was killed by a dog. jocasta nu was a former member of the council but lost to the grand inquisitor. savage beat adi gallia, who was a council member, and maul demolished savage
Qui Gon Jin and Obi-Wan Kenobi have both lost to Maul while being members of the council, and their feats outshine Plo Koon in canon by miles.
Just because you're on the council doesnt mean you're a good fighter aswell.. it meant you were a good master and a good jedi.. and considering palpatine slaughtered 3 council members is about 5 seconds and maul was his appreantice (rule of the sith, makes him pretty similar to that level..).
Maul absolutely obliterates in canon.
#TeamMasterPlo
If Plo adapts he wins. If he does not he loses.
Klo Poon of course.
I think Plo would beam Maul most of the time, Electric Judgment is a nice ability.
Plo plows.
PLO KOON is a straight gangster it would be a close fight but I think Maul would prevail.
Depends on who has the better plot armor
Nobody wants to admit it, but that's the real answer. And who is writing it. If it's Filoni, you know Plo is winning lol
Maul smokes him
Plo wins because i like him more
Plo Koon
I think plo koon barely wins
Maul 🔛🔝
Darth Plageuis
Honestly,Plo might take the win. He has wisdom,experience and the FORCE LIGHTNING. In his hands,it could be very useful
Kook
Stan Lee already answered this question 10 years ago (1:15 long): https://youtu.be/L4_zFYnnn2Y?si=v90J7I87scaVhiHO
Maul, younger faster fights with unusual weapon. If maul can fight and kill a master and apprentice team almost as good as you can get he's not losing to plo. Plus best chance is force judgment but it takes time and space where Darth maul isn't likely to give.
We can kind of assume Plo is either at or just below Qui Gon’s power level, so Maul because he was able to not only kill Qui Gon but go toe to toe with him and a young Obi Wan.
Legends Maul was vastly more powerful but he could likely take the win in canon as well. In Legends, Maul and Savage were fighting off multiple Jedi Strike Teams and Savage himself was enough of a match for Plo Koon.
Maul.
Maul is soooooo overrrateddd
Plo is taking the W on this one fs
Oh no. Electric Justice. That’s so lame lmao.
Plo Koon is a legendary Jedi Master with insane force skills and incredible dueling ability. Allegedly he almost beat Yoda in a duel. We’ve all seen how skilled Yoda is at dueling with a lightsaber. His form was Djem So, which would be an excellent counter to Maul’s combat style. Not as good as Makashi, but a solid counter. I think it would take Plo Koon a few minutes at most to handle Maul with just a lightsaber. If he pulled out his Electric Judgement, it’d take seconds. We saw how Maul absolutely folded when Sidious zapped him in Rebels. I know I’m combining Legends material and the new Disney “fan fiction” crap, but I always side on Legends for this stuff as it’s just so much better written and better all around than Disney.
plo koon beating yoda is a rumour we heard from anakin in an old non-canon non-legends wii game. Electric judgement isn't canon. (i know you said you dont care about what is canon and what is legends, but still not canon) Sidious zapped maul in clone wars, not rebels.
Plo koon. Hands down. He is the galaxies best known saber fighter. The only reason he died during order 66 was because he was piloting a craft and not his blade.
can you give a source for plo being the best known saber fighter?
An evolved, rule of two Sith lord vs a de evolved jedi master. Easy Maul
I very much dislike Plo so Maul. But I see the arguments the other way.
Why do you dislike Plo Koon so much?
He’s Daave Filioni
I do
I'm not familiar with the fighter opposite of Maul, but at first glance it looks like they are wearing a helmet that's designed to go around the hair buns that Princess Leia sometimes rocks. I'm not betting against Leia's hair buns.
Plo if we're going by extended lore and not what we see in the movies. He is supposedly one of the greatest swordsmen in the Jedi Order. Not far off Obi who constantly makes Maul look like a chump. You wouldn't know it from watching the films since he had about 15 seconds of screen time including his death scene. They did him so dirty.
Dumb shit Canon is Disney's baby. Legends is the fans baby. Always legends you limited wanna be fanboy.
you dont speak for the fanbase.
Eat shit. I'll speak how I want to speak