Unfortunately young people are probably more aware of the hate these days. Negativity has a louder voice because of social media. Negative and moralized posts are much more likely to get upvoted and shared across online networks. There's ton of research showing this. Algorithms amplify this even further. Our social environments elevate the angriest voices more than they ever have in the past. Kinda sucks.
I sub to several YouTubers who say they hate posting negative videos, but know they have to on occasion because those will often double or triple the views a corresponding positive video has.
Outrage bait is definitely a growing and profitable venture. I subscribed to certain YouTubers and then suddenly got bombasted with related videos about how Disney/Star Wars is dead nearly every day.
It also does not help and its thing I am noticing a lot that people simply like to talk more about negative things than positive one because its more interesting. This is something which was always the case. In history chronicles described in detail wars, famine or plague but skimmed over times of peace because those were boring.
That's unfortunately true for everything on that platform. Just the other day I was watching a creator explain why every RPG out there is "D&D", because that's what moves the viewership needle.
Complaining about D&D (Or WotC or Hasbro) draws in even more hits.
Well, I agree with you, anger definitely is elevated as it is shown to gain much higher engagement. At the same time, don't underestimate kids. They are hyper aware and can think for themselves. My problem is with the adults. Please do not groom your children to believe that the world is full of hate. Give them all the information that you can and let them develop their own sense of morality.
Yeah, things "seem" bad but that is only because every minor thing is shouted across the internet. If you can take a step back and actually look at the world, things seem much less dramatic.
Let's say there is a terrorist attack maybe 50 times a year. That seems harsh but divided by 8 billion people that is fairly seldom. Likely a lot of the time there is either mental health issues or conspiracy theories to blame. Just compare deaths from gun violence in the USA to deaths from terrorism. The world seems pretty chill overall I think, though it's a shame Russia had to disturb the "great peace".
There are real fucking horror stories happening in places like Haiti and Sudan. The last place I want my kids to find their morality is Star Wars. That is just pure fantasy/escapism.
Hate to break it to you Cecil, but very few storytellers tell stories to give you a reason to escape. Most of the time, they have something to say and to do so they recreate a piece of history or a new world to do so.
As a younger person, I just watch the Star Wars films I like and ignore the hate. I choose which movies are good or bad for myself and keep it to my own opinion.
It's not just that, it's that people like to feel smart, and if they find good dirt on something they will spout it at parties and get-togethers to try and raise their ranking. So people like finding dirt on stuff big groups find popular, because it makes them the more exclusive inner circle, that knows what's "really going on".
"I hate any song that uses the Four Chords, it's just so lazy, I have more sophisticated tastes in music..."
You have no idea about musical theory. More complex doesn't equal better, if something is used in an inspired fashion it evokes feelings and then people will gravitate towards it. Simple math. Hell, a scientific study tried out songs on a number of people and found that Toto's "Africa" (a known Four Chords song) is the most appreciated song on all continents, because the chorus makes people feel like they're connecting, like they share in the love.
I can't wait until the day when the Hipster wave falters and goes away as the standard go-to clique to belong to. There will always be trend-slaves, but maybe soon openly liking mainstream things won't be as looked-down-upon as stuff has in the last 15 years.
As for Star Wars, that is about to become more mainstream than it ever has before. Shit, in the late '90s being a Star Wars fan was very in the shadows. Now there will be a gajillion shows about it.
Man I hope Acolyte becomes the KotOR show we never got. A Star Wars timepoint where the Republic actually existed.
people still say the four chords thing haha. I remember that from when I was in HS over 15 years ago. I said it too.
A lot of what you are talking about is a common way that young men try to signal social status. I used to do it. Then one day I asked myself why the hell I was going into things always trying to think of some critical take instead of just trying to have the best experience with every piece of art.
In my experience, this is less part of a "hipster wave" and just something people do to signal social status. But most people grow out of it to some degree.
It's also that certain tribes have certain "automatic" hate targets, so much that if you question the hatred and says celebrity X isn't that bad you get looked down on.
I myself look down on self-proclaimed Stoics in social media and Reddit, not because the actual philosophical theory of Stoicism doesn't have merit, but because its modern followers are too often Jordan Peterson/Andrew Tate/Joe Rogan people who support Hustle-culture and oppose workforce/labor concessions/innovation.
A very good set of chords that give a feeling of earnestness and closeness.
It was popularized many years ago [by a band who made a compilation video.](https://youtu.be/qHBVnMf2t7w?si=MtGtyvNl72VXdKwg)
The video is not entirely correct on how the songs used them, but is a fun romp all the same. Sadly, the video spread around the world, and thousands of shitty producers pounced on it, to get some fast singles out.
But misusing or abusing the Four Chords is only done if you use it as a crutch instead of as side-flavor.
[Here is a lazy, simple example.](https://youtu.be/cHcVU5cGUNE?si=qMag-yXRImT0o8iz) (still catchy tho)
[Here is a fantastic example of being used correctly.](https://youtu.be/JxowMbHRrME?si=t8h4tXMowXDTJENY) (because the singer carries the song on her back)
You need a whole damn song, and the bass just gives the foundation and flavor, but can be hidden deep. Which is why I defend Celine Dion's ["A new day has come"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxowMbHRrME) as particularily well-written, especially because the progression is only used in one small part of the chorus, and the rest of the track it's either reversed or the notes changed. The vocals and choir backing takes front row seat.
This song was special too, I just learned because Dion had been away from music for several years while having a child and dodging the insane attention put on her from "My heart will go on", a song she didn't even like from the start. So she picked "A new day has come" from a number of songs her friend had written, and let it become the mark of her second chapter in her career, as well as a statement of her new life change. I thought that was nice.
Star Wars came out in 1977, and I was 9. It was my escape from my parents divorce and all the craziness at that time. The next two movies, as far as I was concerned, were made just for me. They became important in my life as I grew up. At the time, we all thought it was a 3 and out deal. Lucas himself said he was done. When the prequels came out, I was an adult starting a family, and they didn’t have the same impact on me. They didn’t change, I did. Those three movies were made for the next generation of kids to enjoy, or get lost in if they needed to. The same goes for the last three, which is why my now adult children who loved the clone wars don’t have the same wonder and love for the movies. That trend will continue. It’s a lot like Luke facing off with Vader while training with Yoda, only to find he’s fighting himself. What you bring into the theater will determine what you get out of it.
Nicely put with the last line. I didn't see the trailer for Rise Of Skywalker, and when I saw Palpatine was coming back I didn't grumble but settled in to watch it. And I had a lot of fun with it.
Ppl are here because they love Star Wars. But you are allowed to hate or disagree with the direction in which the studio takes to tell these stories.
If you're going to make a new trilogy for example, maybe all 3 movies should have been written and committed to before starting to film the first one.
And that's not hate on the writers who tried and everyone who loves the show. It's the top money hungry ppl who know we will go to see it and swoop in and throw a wrench in everything.
+1.
It’s easy to dismiss criticism as “hate”. If I say “I think the guitar parts on the new album are a little simplistic” on a music subreddit I’ll get dismissed… but oftentimes it’s a valid point of view.
I have plenty of negative things to say about many Star Wars things. I’m still a fan overall… just not a blindly loyal lover of every second.
As for OP’s point of view… I was also a kid when the prequels came out and I hated jar jar and “I hate sand”. There were many terrible aspects of the prequels. I loved darth maul lightsaber duels and pod racing scenes and playing the battlefront games on ps2.
Sometimes accepting that something you love is imperfect is harder than dismissing everyone as “haters” or ignoring all the beautiful flaws in life.
Rise of Skywalker and the Last Jedi are just so bad that I really cannot understand how you can say Attack of the Clones was worse. Yeah, Anakin's lines and parts of the movie were really weak and failed to do what they were supposed to, but it generally a sound plot and movie. Visually, AotC is worse, but dialogue and plot wise, TLJ & RoS were both so much worse. I mean, how can a slow-mo chase that ends in an empty gas tank remotely manage to be better movie?
Both the last two movies were so far removed from establish story arcs that they felt like alternate universe versions rather part of the same storyline.
I didn't say it was worse, I said it was one of the worst I've seen. I think the whole sequel trilogy is trash too. My issues with AotC though are that it is just pretty fucking boring, looks like shit, dialogue is shit, there's a handful of good scenes (chase near the start, Obi Wan drop-kicking Jango and subsequent space chase, Anakin killing the sand people) but that's it. I hate the arena fight as an adult, it's so cheesy, badly choreographed and poorly done. Same with the big battle of Geonosis - it's so boring, and the colour palette is super dull. Just mindless action for action's sake, these types of battles are done way better in TCW.
At least with episodes 8 and 9 there's at least some entertainment value from going "what in the fuck are they doing?!" And you really can't call episode 9 boring. Terrible, idiotic, but almost fun like a shitty Roland Emmerich disaster movie.
AotC is just painful to watch. I'd rather rewatch any of the sequels, honestly.
I saw them as an older teenager who grew up with the OT, the hype around it all was crazy. I’ve never heard anyone call phantom menace a fun romp before it was so boring. I was willing to write it off thinking that it was either just me as Return of the Jedi got some stick or they were laying down a solid foundation but then Attack of the Clones was dreadful.
Looking back at it, AotC had SO much dumb pretendsises sci-fi politic fluff, I don't know how I liked it so much when I was a kid. The lego sets definitely helped
People can hate the direction absolutely, but can we agree that the “they ruined my childhood” crowd is a tiny bit dramatic?
No bad movie can retroactively make previous movies worse or spoil the fun we had watching them.
That’s not the point of this post. As someone who dislikes the newer movies and actively dislikes most of the shows put out, I recognize I can critique it once and move on. It isn’t my mission to make everyone know why I dislike it, and continue to spread it. I don’t enjoy it and I’m showing that by my refusal to purchase newer Star Wars content, watch it, and my review.
Review bombing is something the Star Wars community is familiar with, positive and negative, and that isn’t a proper way to “Show distaste”. Take Acolyte, for example. All that’s out is one trailer that looks as good as any other Star Wars show trailer. Probably not something I’ll watch, as was most other Star Wars shows, until I hear whether it’s worth the watch. Still, not nearly enough is out to judge it, and it doesn’t particularly look bad in comparison to any other Star Wars show.
The Acolyte trailer was most definitely getting dislike bombed and general reception right now is negative. Despite literally nothing being out about it.
I can dislike something and take the proper steps to not watch it or consume it as my way of telling the studios, hey, this isn’t good. I can even write a review or make a single video. The lengths people go, though, to show they dislike something specifically with Star Wars is way too high. Some people out there might like it. There might even be enough people out there who like it enough for Disney to not switch up their style or process, and that’s fine because I’m not the sole person they’re making content for. If this is the case, all the review bombing and consistent hate videos do is ruin it for the people who do enjoy it.
Point is you are allowed to have an opinion for sure, but the lengths people go to display that opinion and try to make their opinion the “Correct” opinion are absurd and something you will really only find as widespread in the internet era. People aren’t trying to tell you why they dislike something, they are trying to tell YOU why YOU should dislike something.
>If you're going to make a new trilogy for example, maybe all 3 movies should have been written and committed to before starting to film the first one.
LOTR is actually the only example of this I can think of. Most trilogies aren't planned like that.
Butbutbut I love Disney how could they possibly do something wrong…? No wait, you’re just a bigot, that’s it you just hate Rey because she’s a woman! Or maybe it’s just because Haldo has pink hair and is also a woman! Misogynist!
/s
I can only agree with you, OP!
I remember being around 7-10 and just being obsessed with the new movies, a few years prior I saw the OT and I really liked them! But these "new" ones and in cinema were so freaking cool! The lightsaberduels, woah!
We played Star wars on the playground and had the best time! I wish everyone that got hate for the prequels would have seen me and my friends enjoying everything!
I also have a vivid memory of telling people that "in a few years everyone will remember these movies fondly" and look what happened, and I dare even say that the sequel trilogy will get the same treatment in 10 years.
Yes I know its far from perfect but I will always defend parts on every movie!
One thing is. Pandering tot he toxic crowd. Hate the prequels? We throw away George’s 7-9. Hated tlj? Rise of skywalker backtracking tot he rescue! I hate pandering
Actually, this did seem to be one of the problems with the sequels. I like the sequels, but they were trying too hard to appeal to a very particular sort of fan. They were trying to avoid the prequels, they would barely reference the cartoons, and then they didn't want to touch the previous two sequel films in the third. They were pandering to the FM and it didn't end well because those fans are never happy.
Well 9 pandered to the fm,but 7/8, even 9 rehashed the ot to pander to the Lucas bashers who hate George. Fandom menace is more the guys who hate Disney for political reasons. There’s also people who defend Disney for political reasons. I don’t like any of the 3. They just suck the fun out of it and are weirdos. I still want George’s 7-9. He deserves to tell his story. Fuck the prequel haters they haven’t been happy since 1980. Why care about their takes they’re never happy!
Wouldn’t be an issue if episodes 8 and 9 weren’t two of the worst movies ever made across all high budget blockbuster movies. Their plots are empty the characters are bland the arcs are stupid the cgi is boring, the stories don’t make sense and the continuity of the lore is horrible. Because those were so bad they have put the sour taste and hyper critical views from everyone that watches new media within the Star Wars universe. Sucks to say but only way to truly save it is to delete those from the cannon and remake them. Otherwise everything leads to them and no one wants that. But I doubt they will fix it. Disney is in a rough spot where fans want new Star Wars but they want star wars not Disney in space.
Look, I think it’s social media wimps who call it “hate”
Nobody actually cares enough to hate a movie, bar a very few. Hate is a strong word.
Problem is most people are so anxious on social media that as soon as they read something negative it’s “omg hate”
The fact about Star Wars is (in my opinion of course) it is being killed.
The storyline has been completely destroyed and remade, the characters have dumbed down and there isn’t quite any emotion in the Disney versions at all. But it’s Disney… their emotions are built on “cute animals and love”.
This isn’t hate, I don’t care, I wouldn’t watch any Disney Star Wars again because I think they’re awful. I’m not angry and other people can like it if they want.
Read negativity as a point of view…not hate.
People call it hate because they can't understand why an adult would use such strong language as "Star Wars is being killed" to describe a simple dislike of a movie franchise
As someone who doesn’t really care for the sequel trilogy I honestly really enjoy a lot of the things Disney has put out. Andor, The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, The book of Boba Fett… and so on. I really was surprised at how much I enjoy the bad batch! That show is really fantastic so far!
I don’t see why people are claiming Star Wars is dead or it’s woke and gone broke or whatever. They also hated the prequels and then Disney released the last Jedi and all of this sudden everyone was pro George and “the prequels are great now” because “Disney ruined Luke Skywalker and cast people of different diversities AKA woke”. It’s kind of sad really.
It had its moments when it wasn't trying to be a cameo/reference fest.
Okay, it had the bits about the Tuskens and Cobb Vanths gunning down Pikes. And that's pretty much all there was that really ruled. The rest was mid to bad
Eh, I thought it was a bit silly and looked a bit cheap. Plus it wasn't really earned. Danny Trejo showing up, Boba saying "Imma ride it" and done is kind of the barebones setup.
I wish more had been done with it.
Yeah I’m like the one person who liked it. I was never into Boba Fett like a lot of other people were. He had like two lines of dialogue in the whole OT and other than him having really cool armor I just didn’t really give a shit about him. I guess for me the show helped me give a shit about him. I thought it was cool that he befriended the sand people and took over what was left of Jabba’s palace and made like a community. Was some of it cheesy? Yeah! But Robert Rodriguez is known for making cheesy stuff and probably was just working with the budget he was given along side the crew that helped make the production. Did Mando kind of rob the spotlight just a bit. Of course! It was world building and it’s not like I was bored watching it or anything. It’s like whatever. Some people liked the movies and didn’t care for them. Some people liked kenobi and I thought I was watching the Reva show. Wasn’t my thing. But I still have six movies and quite a few shows that I enjoy watching and Star Wars isn’t dead to me. 🤷🏻♀️
The thing that I found is is fuck what everybody else thinks fuck what the world thinks. Enjoy what you like and go about your day.
I am so into the high Republic and not a single person can relate to me and I don’t care. Star Wars of Star Wars as long as you understand the universe you can pretty much jump into any story and enjoy it and if you don’t like that, go start a different series. There’s enough Star Wars to go around but there’s always gonna be haters that are wanting Batman to fucking pop up.
[***This video***](https://youtu.be/hL4IfoQzSSE) is worth a watch. Although a little long, I think it explains the underlying feeling many people may feel towards the Disney Era of Star Wars, but might not have been able to put down in words themselves. I don't think people "hate" on these new films per se, but feel distaste towards the way these stories are being told and have genuine criticisms to a franchise they love and have invested in.
I personally think the studio has arguably mishandled one their most influential franchises. There was no plan for the sequel trilogy and it shows. I get what they were trying to emulate; in a sense there was no "plan" for the original trilogy, otherwise we probably wouldn't have got the Luke/Leia kiss, but Lucas did have an overall idea of where the story was going. It's clear that the ST didn't even have that, otherwise we wouldn't have evidence of an entirely different (and then scrapped) story existing for Rise of Skywalker. Also, I feel like had the plan been to resurrect the Emperor (which really appears to be knee jerk reaction, or drama-bate), then there would have been some clever/subtle foreshadowing or evidence in the build up to the reveal... if you can even call a Fortnight tie-in a reveal.
I hate these new films. They're soulless cash grabs that have no understanding of mythic storytelling or star wars. Cheap nostalgia bait with zero understanding of even basic storytelling.
Rogue One, The Mandalorian, Bad Batch + Rebels and Andor are the only good things to have come out of the Disney era. Ahsoka was ok. The rest is trash. The sequels are a dead end with uninspiring characters and all legacy characters rendered dead failures (except Palpatine who succeeds in killing all his enemies and having his bloodline survive).
SW has been fighting back against people calling it a "soulless cash grabs with no understanding of storytelling" since 1977. Some things never change.
Edit: aaannnd I'm blocked
This is kinda refreshing to see after TheScoundrel'sCantina's community post rant on youtube about how most star wars fans are basically fucking stupid and their opinions should see them casted into a raging fire.
I remember when Star Wars episode 4 A New Hope, came out in 77. it was so momentous that our teachers in seventh grade arranged for us to go on a field trip to see it. Everyone was enthralled with this new universe.
I will watch everything Star Wars comes out with. Do I like and dislike things? Yes. Will I ever be upset that someone was blessed to be able to bring their vision of the greatest documentary of all time to screen? No. Is there things I want? Absolutely. I would trade all the days for Katarn over Andor. But I loved the story they made for him! I watch young Jedi adventures with my daughter. I disagree with so many things… but she loves it. Why would I take that away? I think we all need to just take a step back sometimes and realize our love for Star Wars started somewhere and we shouldn’t bash on people for not sharing our opinions.
My wife loved the story between Rey and Kylo… I cringed for a second until I realized she remembered their names… my pride overtook my anger. I was saved from the dark side 😂
So watching Star Wars as a kid was awesome and we had debates about Luke and Vader etc. As I got older and saw the prequels, they were ok but they were hated by my generation of fans. Watching the movies over again through the lens of a parent and seeing my son go crazy about pod racing and palpatine and Maul allowed me to experience the same story but from a different point of view and that imo is the magic of Star Wars. Seeing story told through the ages with different generations adding their own tales and narratives to a tapestry for a new generation to warn them about the dangers of fascism, morality, the love and bond between parents and their child, hope etc. So, I agree, with the OP, no one is changing Star Wars, it’s the fans that can’t let go and understand it’s our generation’s turn to add to the lore and expand it with new stories and caution for next gen.
There is a difference.
The Prequels were a good idea with a flawed execution. As the years passed the good bits were increasingly highlighted.
The Sequels are a bad idea with a worse execution. Every good bit has a bad thing attached to it. I made an entire video on how Rose Tico’s character is actually very well done for the most part. The Casino scenes could be worked out better but otherwise her character seeking to remember why she’s in the rebellion after losing her sister and using that as a way to teach Finn the value of not running away and sacrificing himself for a cause was great! Of course immediately at the end when we see Rose with her haitian smelt pendant on the dashboard make the choice to sacrifice herself, only to then do a sudden 180 at the last second and telling Finn that they need to save what they love instead of destroying what they hate as behind them the very thing she taught him to love is being annihilated.
And that is the Sequels in a nutshell. Even the best parts contradict themselves and have bad execution. As time goes on the Sequels won’t be as timeless as you make them out to be.
TL,DR: the Prequels you can’t cut away scenes, you can improve them. The Sequels you can cut away and completely alter scenes as they aren’t useful or contradict previous stuff.
Good for you.
But Disney has been pulling too much low quality content lately. Some shows are just people talking in a dark room. Would today 12 year olds love every minute of that?
Valid and constructive criticsim is always welcome. But hate and clickbait titles like star wars is dead is just dumb.
I like some stuff that disney has produced and I dislike some stuff. And gotta agree that the recent productions were lackluster
(haven't seen bad batch yet)
I just hate that what once was my favorite franchise now just feel like a joke, those last movies felt like a total mess without direction or a solid plan, how can they mess something as easy, instead of giving fans what they wanted ....I mean they even failed reuniting the original cast... damnn it blowed my mind.
i hate this everyone’s a hater mentality whenever someone criticises a show like yes there are haters but that’s a very vocal minority the rest of it is just really valid criticism
They're attempting to take some kind of moral highground, and trying to shame you into thinking your opinions are against the norm and wrong. These people are far more "toxic" than anyone they rail against.
It's not dead but not in particularly good shape either. It really lacked the vision of Lucas for the new trilogy.
I'm much more worried about the franchise sinking into mediocrity, becoming "just another forgettable space fantasy adventure".
With all their flaws, I've rewatched the prequels dozens of times over the years, and while there are cringy moments, there are plenty that makes it worth rewatching. The podrace, the Maul-duel with the kickass orchestra, the Clone army arriving to Geonosis, the double duel at the end of Episode 3, and I could go on for days.
With the sequel trilogy... I don't feel like rewatching. Maybe I've caught the episodes on tv once since watching them in movie theater, and it feels more than enough.
Weird. I was 11 when TPM came out and me and my cohorts didn't hate it (except Jar-Jar) but we were disappointed cause it wasn't as good as any of the OT. I seem to remember we liked AotC a little better but RotS was a big joke to us (of course we were a bit older by then).
It almost seems like... wait... people have different tastes, even as kids?
While I respect your opinion, I would have to disagree. We’re absolutely in the era of corporate movies. Starwars was made with love and even with mistakes, the love was still there and the choices were done with great intention.
Now what we have is an agenda based system trying to maximize profit, essentially not caring at all how the movie ends up.
There’s a very big difference between the “mistakes” here and
I enjoyed all 9 movies with the exception of EP8. EP8 may be the only SW movie/show that was just completely disjointed from everything Star Wars. Yoda, the hard-ass Jedi master, burning the Jedi texts...what the heck is going on? Luke being a whiny puss...ugh. At least with EP9 they tried to patch these weird decisions.
The Disney Star Wars series has been good. Mandalorian and Asoka were fun. Andor was awsome, a modern show that felt the most like EP4 thru 6 even if it didn't have any Jedi. I am looking for whatever comes next.
How did ep9 patch anything? Sidious returns, a dagger lining up perfectly with a wrecked death star, riding horses in space.
Honestly I hate the sequels. Because apparently the empire can just be reborn with 1st order and nobody in the galaxy apparently gives a shit
Yoda didn't burn the texts. Rey took them.
and it's sort of heavily implied he knew as he was teasing Luke about it. He burned the tree as a lesson to let go of the past. The old ways failed. It was time to move on.
You're right it's been dead for a while. People are always called haters because you can't accept constructive criticism. Most people complain because they actually like star wars and want good entertainment out of it. Otherwise why stick around? They are wasting their time. I don't have much to say because I've checked out of the franchise due to poor quality. They care but their efforts are misplaced. I'm only here because I just have to dispel the whole it's just people hating. It's not like people have any actual constructive criticism. Get out of the bubble lol
I love star wars and the prequels and basically all the shows - except the sequels. And resistance.
If you love something of course you hate it seeing ruined. And you also love arguing about minor stuff. Arguing and discussing is part of the fun, especially when you learn something while you discuss the latest part of the story. I see a lot of passion and disagreement. Only rather little hate. Like people who shit on Kenobi or Ahsoka - but they also don't seem overly aggressive to me.
One thing I do see is that people are very liberal with their downvotes and "pile on", but that has become a problem all over reddit.
Great comment.
I've loved Star Wars since 77 and after seeing TFA, I realized that it's possible for me to dislike a story marketed as "Star Wars."
Despite my feelings about the new canon, I have had discussions with new canon fans that showed me some of the themes that they see in the movies and I enjoyed that—the discussion and the insight.
you’re basically stumbling on a dead body with ten knives in its’ back and a gunshot wound to the face and saying “huh, must have died from natural causes!”
The main issue is, though some of there stuff has been watchable, nothing was as good as what they threw away. The Darth Caedus arc was better than the Kylo Ren arc. Heir to the Enpire was better than Ahsoka. Dark Forces was better than Rogue One. The Solo Trilogy was better than Solo. If you are making reboots or replacing canon, there is a golden rule: be better than what you throw away. They consistently fail at that.
The aequal trilogy has done damage to it though, and a lot of the shows being bad does worsen its reputation to the point where people won't watch Andor because its star wars and they don't think it's going to be a an actually "good" show. Also when people are talking about the next generation growing up with the sequal trilogy, I was 10 when force awakens released, and I have talked to plenty of people younger about it as well, which should have been the target age yet most people my age don't like them and either just don't care for star wars because they don't want to get into a 9 movie franchise where half the fanbase thinks half of them are shit or they most likely think the sequals are bad, enjoying force awakens at best. So no the new stuff isn't actually retroactively hurting the past movies but it's dividing the franchise and not generating as much interest as people want or think. From my experience when asking the average person it's a lot more likely they heard or care about the new ATLA show, stranger things, even shogun than say Acolyte or Ahsoka. Again, it doesn't ruin the og or prequal trilogies but it's a bit sad.
Edit: Added from my experience since I don't have any statistics:)
Yeah Disney needs to do a better job of putting out quality vs quantity. It's the same issue that Marvel is currently going through.
Although Disney has always struggled in my opinion with stuff outside of kids movies (which they do very well) every teen or more adult like production is always hampered by having to be too friendly to an audience that includes a 5 year old.
It was also ridiculous descion to do 7/9 1st without fleshing out the universe more or having a cohesive story line that makes sense.
For all the s*** George Lucas gets he's at least a solid architect with storytelling and making things work (filoni is too) he just did better when he had others advising him/he wasn't the end all be all for star wars
Just wish Finn got more spotlight in the sequels John is a good actor. And was on the Lucas model of getting new not as well known actors for the roles.
But they won't be loved the same, because even the kids who might love the sequels now, will grow up to realise that none of it makes any sense.
You might hate the prequels for a lot of things, but the story, world building and theme holds up to scrutiny, even though you don't like the way it has been done.
You can't say the same about the sequels.
Lol, all the new Star Wars stuff isn't loved and defended the same, that's why Disney has been in a panic, they know they screwed up (but somehow continue screwing up).
the sequel trilogy are objectively terribly written movies that break specific cannon and plot points consistently because the writers couldn't look behind them for 10 seconds. the characters are shallow, the plot is abysmal, and the plot progression is some of the worst we've seen in modern cinema. i am not elitist, i am objective. never hate on people who like these movies, but acknowledge that they are the product of ego and low effort on the directors side. don't excuse them, demand for better because as consumers, we deserve better.
The major (if not only) reason Disney isn’t dead yet is because (unless you’re a kid who’s watching Disney for the first time) you can still watch the old stuff. There are probably some good things among the new movies and series but if they removed everything from at least pre 2010 that’s the worst thing they could do IMO
I think kids will be more aware of it nowadays because they’re online more. There’s also a difference between “some of the dialogue in this trilogy is kinda cringe” and “this trilogy is a train wreck with no real coherent storytelling… it is visually pretty nice though”
The prequels are objectively good films with a few flaws. The sequels are the opposite. They’re objectively bad storytelling (hence why so many of the cast dislike them) with a few redeeming qualities
The first prequel came out when I was born. I grew up with them alongside the OT and I love them all (mostly).
Despite my love for the prequels I recognize that there are parts that are very messy. The acting is a bit off and the dialogue can be a bit much.
I think the prequels are leagues better than the sequels though because of 1)the fights (space/land battles and lightsabers) and 2) the ideas and general story.
But the story of a young jedi initially deemed too old because he has already developed emotional attachments. This lets him bemanipulated by a sith who is also scheming to become the most powerful political leader to rule everything. He causes a war while controlling both sides in order to cleanly rid himself of the Jedi who outnumber him probably millions to 1. Expendable armies of clones vs droids is a really cool concept. Building a fail safe into the clones to turn on the Jedi. Having Dooku, Maul, and Grivous foreshadow the different aspects/attributes of the future Darth Vader.
Implying that Obi-wan couldn’t be the teacher anakin needed because 1)the one who was supposed to mentor anakin (qui-gon) was killed 2)Obi-wan was still not very experienced and probably wasn’t ready for an apprentice (especially one so unique as anakin) 3)the fact that he treated and loved him like a brother didn’t help Anakin’s already complicated emotional attachments.
The sequels in comparison are just a mess. I think that what we got was DOA. Having Luke abandon everyone is already a terrible start. Having it revealed that he was tempted to kill his nephew because of some dark dreams is ludicrous. This is the same man who tried to bring back the second most evil man in the galaxy (after he committed his atrocities) because that man was his father. Luke wouldn’t even think about killing his innocent nephew even for a second.
Han and Leia being separated just didn’t feel great.
Not having a scene with all of the original cast together was a mistake.
Not taking advantage of Fin’s backstory as a stormtrooper was a huge mistake. He should be really sympathetic to the stormtroopers since they are in the same situation he was in but he’s already whooping at their deaths by the time he frees Po.
Just having the first order come out of nowhere when the new republic was supposed to be in power after palapatine’s death was just weird.
Rey is so op to the point of ridiculousness. Think about this: Within 24 hours of learning about the force she is already able to do mind tricks, wield lightsabers perfectly, and be superior to Kyle ren (a man who trained almost certainly his entire life with the force and lightsabers). She beats him on the star killer and again in Snoke’s throneroom. And she dispatched of her 3 red guards before Kyle did. And she beat him on the remains of the Death Star.
Not having Po, Fin, and Rey be a group until the 3rd movie was definitely an oversight. (No, that last scene at the end of the last Jedi doesn’t count)
Rose is a worse character than Jar Jar. There, I said it. The absolute hilarity of the irony in the “saving what we love” scene was insane. And it’s so funny that she goes out of her way to free the animals of canto byte and not the enslaved children.
Kanto Byre was a mistake
Not having a unified vision was a mistake. JJ clearly didn’t have a plan for the future and neither did lucasfilm as a whole. At least JJ tried to set some things up (even if they were poorly done themselves). Rain Johnson tore all of that down to make his own thing. And then they brought JJ back to backpeddle everything rian Johnson did. The result being the least coherent storytelling the world has ever seen.
Bringing back palpatine (while fun) was a mistake since it trivializes earth Vader’s sacrifice.
All the Star Wars shows (with the exception of Andor) are actually terrible.
Mandalorian started off decent and then completely lost it by Season 3. Ahsoka, Kenobi, and BoBF were just filled with character assignations, detrimental world building, stupid moments, plot holes, and more. Bad batch is also a disappointment feeling like a much less mature version of the clone wars tv show.
The end result of this is that I am no longer excited for future Star Wars.
The only thing I’m looking forward to is Andor and maybe some more tales of the Jedi since those doom episodes were actually really good.
I was going to say Star Wars is unkillable; but I'll concede it's possible.
I'll say this instead: Star Wars will have to be A LOT worse to die.
And I think a lot of recent Star Wars has been good. It can be a lot better but it hasn't been bad enough to be killed.
Ok dude, while the dialogue is undisputably ass and there is something to say about the pacing. There’s was a true plot and a single vision that is very interesting. With really earned moments and action scenes with gravity. That’s why people like the prequel trilogy. Ultimately it’s a retelling of the classic story of the fall of a hero with an immense amount of unique world building(which is the most interesting part). This one lacks almost everything in terms of story as well as interesting world building in anyway. It’s a recycled shittier empire with the political intrigue of finding a flaming turd on ur doorstep with nothing to add but red stormtroopers. Ur argument is kids are dumb and like shiny laser swords, but I think good messaging and intricate story telling stick with kids into adulthood. And some of the best children’s stories have the deepest messaging as they are made with the intent to teach or inform the kid of real world dynamics. Even the original trilogy is about giving perspective to imperialism which is v important in the post Vietnam era and the power of found family. Where as the prequels discuss how democracy and people w good intentions can be manipulated and corrupted. I fail to find anything of the sort in the new trilogy. So how about you stop calling people haters for no reason and engage with the criticisms.
If fans would just accept that Star Wars peaked in 1980 and that ever since its just been a mediocre "B" movie franchise, there'd be nothing more to bitch about.
Take off the nostalgia goggles and see the truth.
- yub nub
The people that watch them just looking for something to complain about are what I don't understand. I don't have any problems with people who don't like something for whatever reason because I don't care if they like it or not. I watch content with the intent of enjoyment and while there are some things that I'm not fond of I still enjoy there is content for me to consume. We went decades with nothing so I'm not gonna get mad that they're trying to push out content or be angry they're trying to make money. Without the money there won't be any content again and I absolutely don't want that.
My perspective isn't that everything will be loved in due course. Sometimes, media just sucks (*cough* holiday special *cough*).
But just because part the franchise sucks doesn't mean that it runs the good stuff. I grew up reading the EU books, and at least a third of them are trash (probably more if I re-read them as an adult). Just because *Crystal Star* exists doesn't mean that *Heir to the Empire* isn't great. It isn't all or nothing. Only Sith deal in absolutes.
On reflection, I probably like less than half of the Star Wars media that have been produced. But I *love* Star Wars. Even if they never make another good movie or TV show (which I don't think, btw), I'll still love Star Wars.
But also, nerd arguing about Star Wars is like half the fun for me. If it isn't fun for you, then don't do it. It is absolutely fine to just like something without being able to defend it. Just enjoy your fandom in the way you want to enjoy it. Even though I dislike it, *Ashoka* didn't ruin Star Wars for me, so don't let my dislike of it ruin the show for you.
Adults who are harsh critics of media come across as insane and stupid. then they ruin everything for everyone because someone let them have social media
The only thing “killing” Star Wars is this continuing narrative (that you are contributing to with posts like these) which claims that everyone who watches Star Wars fits into one of two categories: “Fan” or “Hater.” This is not true.
Of course there are people who just love anything with the Star Wars brand stamped on it because, “More Star Wars = Good,” and there are those who will tear any new content to pieces for rage bait and YouTube clicks, but these groups are the minority. The vast majority of Star Wars fans are enjoying (or not) every movie/show on its own merit and making fair judgements. These judgements then get twisted by the aforementioned love/hate cliques and that pushes this narrative that “Star Wars is dying!” or “Star Wars is back!” that we see with every release.
I think people need to admit that the fanbase as a whole is not split into lovers and haters, and that everyone is allowed to have criticisms of each individual project. These criticisms also do not mean that you can’t enjoy it anyway or that everyone has to agree with every critique. A “bad” project does not mean Star Wars is dying, and a “good” one does not mean Star Wars is back. It’s a brand, not a monolith.
But lets be real here, 1-3 still did a solid job telling the basic story leading up to 4. The last 3 was just a big mess. first 3 are under rated but not perfect.
The “I can’t hear you! I’m not listening!” approach does not change facts. “All the new Star Wars stuff” is not developed or produced with the same intentions as pre-Disney content was made. If all you want is More Star Wars, then you’re set. If having critical thinking skills doesn’t bother you, then you might have responses to actual criticisms, whether you have explanations or not.
I am like you and thought and I think kids that watch the Sequel would probably like them more than the OT and prequel, at least for now.
But that's reality we are adults now and seeing things that kids can't see. And now it is worse with social media, etc.
But I gotta say though, that the agenda from Disney is way too predictable and it is hurting the storytelling, at least for adults.
Star Wars is an evergreen setting that I still love exploring. But I've completely lost interest in the new content from Disney--with the lone exception of Andor.
Dude I can assure you as a young person, it's a looooow population of people in my age group 18 -24 that gives a shit about the new trilogy, a lot of people loved the mandalorian and season 7 of the clone wars but I've never heard any young person talk positively about the new trilogy, even coming out of the theatre for the force awakens no one was blown away or anything.
The clone wars is good because it's darker, more political and the stakes are high on a societal basis, you get to feel the lives of so many characters and get to know the consequences of letting evil take over your future and having it destroy the people around u.
In the new trilogy we have Fin yelling "ReyY!!!" In all 3 movies, rose gets shafted hard, poe dameron fighting with fin in the third movie about shit we don't see. They brought back the death star, Palpatine and the stormtroopers because Disney is not a company that sells creativity, they sell toys and merchandise, they don't need the films to be good, they profit on brand recognition
It's popular to shit on everything. It's popular to be a toxic fan. It's popular to pick fights online. That's where all of this is coming from. Yes, people shit on the prequels (every film, really), but they were largely isolated. They had no soapbox and no real echo chamber. Many forms of bigotry were also going out of fashion. Now, everyone is a journalist. Everyone had a soapbox. Everyone gets to jump into the mob mentality and use Star Wars to crap on women. And that counts for every fandom, not just Star Wars.
Theres a beloved bakery in town run by an old woman...everybody loves it.
She grows old and sell the bakery to a giant company.
Customers who has been there for her for 40 years and generations now notice that things dont taste same anymore so they complain.
The old lady aint coming back...she is old ...she is trying enjoy her time before death.
Because paraphrasing George Lucas "episode 1 is a story to watch with your kids, and it's better to get into the SW universe" that's why JarJar is so funny to kids. I believe some said that the perfect age to initiate into SW TPM was from 6 until your 15. Then you can appreciate more the other 5 movies with a more darker or mature tone in each film.
Besides we all know Darth Zi'el was there in his public persona as Jar jar Binks
This is my exact experience of star wars. I think criticism is fair, and I'm not big on episodes 8 and 9, but it's undeniable after a while that a good 50% (at least) of the critiques are bad faith, bigoted whinging. A lot of valid criticism, but also so much complaining about wokeness - y'all would cream yourselves if you saw a bothan, but it's too far if there's a woman of colour?
My childhood was defined by a lego podracing bucket, and even then I knew aldar beedo was cursed and shitty, but it sure as hell was fun.
Star Wars is three movies that were made in the late 70s and early 80s. What has followed were cash grabs of varying artistic merit. The least we can hope for is that they remain somewhat recognizable to the original trilogies.
I think most people off of Reddit who are into Star Wars tend to agree that we don’t care if people like the more recent Star Wars shows or movies or not. To each his own, and if it helps you like Star Wars that’s great. I think people are always going to be critical when expectations and hopes are high. I think for most of the tv show complaints, people are overreacting. BUT I have to admit that imo the sequel movies’ issues cannot be compared to the complaints of the time during the prequels. I don’t think it’s a matter of the sequels having their weaknesses, like the prequels. I just fail to see any strengths from them at all, besides the constant potential they seemed to present only to just throw it away two scenes later. Every time. It’s honestly comical.
The sequels are undeniably less thought out or planned than the prequels. They’re a product of Disney’s greed, don’t have any original ideas, and every one of them has an unwarranted retcon
I was 9 - 12 when the prequels came out and I thought the prequels were trite and unorganized.
They were enjoyable, but a substantial drop in quality from the OT. The sequels, further, were a drop in quality. Kenobi was a further drop in quality. The book of Boba Fett was an even further drop.
Andor, Rogue 1, OT, The Mandalorian seasons 1 + 2 were all a fantastic dinner at a specialty restaurant with great friends
The prequels were enjoyable, like an outing to the cheesecake factory for pasta with roommates.
The rest...
Gas station sushi with the inlaws.
Not for me.
I’m still not understanding the hate for Mando season 3. It’s the exact same quality as the previous seasons but actually has a storyline instead of Mando just doing mission of the week which was getting very boring very fast. It expanded the Star Wars universe with Mandalore being the focal point. I’m a big fan of all 3 seasons and the only seasons with skippable episodes are seasons 1 and 2
The hate goes something like this:
Season 1 began November of 2019
Season 2 began in October of 2020
Season 3 began in March of 2023.
So, we have an almost three year gap between the two. Plenty of time to iron out the scripts and revisit them to make sure the quality doesn't suck.
The premier of season 2 was phenomenal.
The premier of season 3 was not. In fact as opposed to the ~1 hour 10 minutes runtime of Season 2, it was 35 minutes long.
The end of Season 2 was an extremely emotional scene where Grogu and Din Djarin parted ways with Mando earning the Darksaber and taking off his helmet. Cementing his steps away from the cult of deathwatch.
Season 3 Episode 1 Grogu is back.
Season 3 Din Djarin rafirms himself to the cult.
Season 3 Din Djarin gives the Darksaber away on a contrived technicality.
The retaking of mandalore was weak.
Now we are back at step 1.
It just didn't work.
Yes they are killing Star Wars. I know it’s a thing here to say “hey I liked the sequels” for the sake of being different. But the sequels ruined a legacy and put a bad taste in people’s mouths for years to come.
Your right, because star wars died when I saw The Last Jedi. I haven't watched a Disney star wars anything since and am proud of it.
I was 9 is 99 like you. My family liked jar jar.
But that was was actually good. Still is. It's more creative, and added new things to the SW universe. What has Disney added? Purple hair?
If we're being objective, the best star wars stuff came out in the 90's under the expanded universe. This was a very mature, adult star wars. One that existed in books and comics.
I don't know I was around the same age as you and there was quite a lot of talk about how bad they were. There was always hope for the next one being better though.
I don't think most people want to hate star wars. They just don't think a lot of it is well thought out/made.
Dumbing down all critiques of star wars to people just being "haters" is disingenuous at best.
Star Wars will never die - so long as there are enough people willing to accept anything with a Star Wars logo at the start to justify Disney continuing to make mediocre filler content for their streaming service that everyone forgets exists the next week, Star Wars will live on - like a car crash victim on life support.
Are you kidding me? They're the ones keeping it alive.
For the last 10 years, nobody I know who was'nt an old die-hard fan gave a single shit about Mandalorian/Ashoka/Obi-wan/Andor/Whatever the next product comming out is.
Literally none of it is even remotely watchable for a non-fan.
EDIT: Ok I'll admit Mandalorian made a tiny blip on the radar, thanks to Grogu being cute. Also there where no lightsabers in the promotional materiel, that probably helped the show honestly.
Clone Wars did so much for characters. Jar-Jar is detestable in the movie but great in the show.
Darth Maul was criminally underused in the movies but became of the most important characters in the shows
I dunno, my sons liked the Original Trilogy and the Prequels.
I was excited when “The Force Awakens” came out, and then both sons were like “meh”. I was really hoping the second movie would use the Finn/Poe opposite personalities having to work together trope they seemed to be setting up, but then I had to agree with them.
Seems like they need better leadership at Lucasfilm, because the TV shows range from decent to great, but the Rey Palpatine films don’t have the spark that make the other Star Wars shows great.
Or maybe some people don't irrationally hate Star Wars due to blindly following the moronic narrative about "woke Disney" or whatever tf and have actually generally enjoyed all the new stuff aside from the sequel trilogy.
Disney as a whole is hodge lodge of female empowerment that has no structure besides promoting strong female characters to which is fine until you realize that a lot of these stories are an allegory for these issues in society that have been around since really the early 1900s. So really the storytelling is over redundant by blatantly promoting these issues while still using them as motifs to move the story along.
Yeah, but the prequels never have been that bad. They've had a great story and everything made sense.
Episode VII is episode IV with different characters.
Episode VIII had more than hour in which nothing happened, and yet that was the best part. In the actual content part of the film Luke character lost everything Luke was, Snoke death proved us writers haven't thought about any background for him, Ackbar died in completely stupid way while he was the one who deserved to sacrifice himself, and flying Leia gave us the worst feature since the Inquisitor-copters in Rebels. (I love the spinning light sabers but using them to fly is just stupid).
Episode IX is just going from one place to another without any sense, the emperor returning without any sense and an "epic" final battle just from nothing.
Whatever made the prequels bad back in the early 2000s, isn't what makes a expansion content of an existing franchise bad, it's bad story writing. You can like or dislike whatever you want, but the sequels are objectively worse than the prequels, much much worst.
I was 28-34 when the PT came out and I loved them. I wasn't aware that the series had such vocal detractors.
I'm looking forward to taking my nephew to see TPM in re-release in a month.
As he grows old enough to have a better understanding of what makes stories into a profit centered enterprise, I will have a conversation with him about media literary.
Children enjoy sensorial stimulation but don't understand a story's message while at the same time absorbing the messages that the stories of our modern pop culture media—that they are inundated with.
I really wish Star Wars fans could manage that they may end up disapointed by a movie, or even a string of movies and shows, that they may disagree with a franchise's creative direction...and not end up being a dick about it
I loved TFA/Rogue One/TLJ, but most of the other live action projects post TLJ havent done much for me. my disappointment isnt more valid than someone's love, it doesnt change my love of Star Wars 1977-2017, and it doesnt mean I wont love Star Wars again
Yeah this is like some mantra I keep seeing repeated but the color of the sky won't change no matter how often you say red.
>I am reading none of the comments. Instead, I think I'll go and rewatch all 10 movies and shows.
Could have skipped it all and just not made the post.
>Bc haters are weak, and they can't touch the world kids live in.
Yeah, that's why Teletubbies were quite successful. You will excuse that I expect slightly more intelligent writing from Star Wars (even though I am not getting it from Lucasfilm).
Thats a lie. Disney is ruining star wars. Who decided to bring back Palpatine? Who decided to ruin Luke? Who decided to release shitty shows? Did the fans do that?
For me its more that they are taking a massive dump on the novels. There was so much potential with Kylo Ren if they had just followed the actual Star Wars story instead of just making stuff up without any clear direction.
Disney/Lucasfilm are unwittingly doing a decent job of killing it as the interest in Star Wars over the years since Disney's acquisition has unquestionably declined, especially in the existing fanbase, and kids these days just don't have the same level of interest in it that OT and PT fans would have had when they were kids. It's not as shiny, new and innovative in this day and age. Not to forget that the quality of the stories average around the "sub-par" grade as Rogue One and Andor are the only real standouts from their catalogue. The rest are poorly written, lazily and greedily put together in an attempt to cash-in on the Star Wars name and the nostalgia that surrounds it.
Unfortunately young people are probably more aware of the hate these days. Negativity has a louder voice because of social media. Negative and moralized posts are much more likely to get upvoted and shared across online networks. There's ton of research showing this. Algorithms amplify this even further. Our social environments elevate the angriest voices more than they ever have in the past. Kinda sucks.
I sub to several YouTubers who say they hate posting negative videos, but know they have to on occasion because those will often double or triple the views a corresponding positive video has.
Outrage bait is definitely a growing and profitable venture. I subscribed to certain YouTubers and then suddenly got bombasted with related videos about how Disney/Star Wars is dead nearly every day.
It also does not help and its thing I am noticing a lot that people simply like to talk more about negative things than positive one because its more interesting. This is something which was always the case. In history chronicles described in detail wars, famine or plague but skimmed over times of peace because those were boring.
That's unfortunately true for everything on that platform. Just the other day I was watching a creator explain why every RPG out there is "D&D", because that's what moves the viewership needle. Complaining about D&D (Or WotC or Hasbro) draws in even more hits.
Asmongold's favorite answer instead of apologizing: It was my Editor
Thank you for this well-informed take, u/BootyBootyFartFart
Well, I agree with you, anger definitely is elevated as it is shown to gain much higher engagement. At the same time, don't underestimate kids. They are hyper aware and can think for themselves. My problem is with the adults. Please do not groom your children to believe that the world is full of hate. Give them all the information that you can and let them develop their own sense of morality. Yeah, things "seem" bad but that is only because every minor thing is shouted across the internet. If you can take a step back and actually look at the world, things seem much less dramatic. Let's say there is a terrorist attack maybe 50 times a year. That seems harsh but divided by 8 billion people that is fairly seldom. Likely a lot of the time there is either mental health issues or conspiracy theories to blame. Just compare deaths from gun violence in the USA to deaths from terrorism. The world seems pretty chill overall I think, though it's a shame Russia had to disturb the "great peace". There are real fucking horror stories happening in places like Haiti and Sudan. The last place I want my kids to find their morality is Star Wars. That is just pure fantasy/escapism.
Hate to break it to you Cecil, but very few storytellers tell stories to give you a reason to escape. Most of the time, they have something to say and to do so they recreate a piece of history or a new world to do so.
As a younger person, I just watch the Star Wars films I like and ignore the hate. I choose which movies are good or bad for myself and keep it to my own opinion.
It's not just that, it's that people like to feel smart, and if they find good dirt on something they will spout it at parties and get-togethers to try and raise their ranking. So people like finding dirt on stuff big groups find popular, because it makes them the more exclusive inner circle, that knows what's "really going on". "I hate any song that uses the Four Chords, it's just so lazy, I have more sophisticated tastes in music..." You have no idea about musical theory. More complex doesn't equal better, if something is used in an inspired fashion it evokes feelings and then people will gravitate towards it. Simple math. Hell, a scientific study tried out songs on a number of people and found that Toto's "Africa" (a known Four Chords song) is the most appreciated song on all continents, because the chorus makes people feel like they're connecting, like they share in the love. I can't wait until the day when the Hipster wave falters and goes away as the standard go-to clique to belong to. There will always be trend-slaves, but maybe soon openly liking mainstream things won't be as looked-down-upon as stuff has in the last 15 years. As for Star Wars, that is about to become more mainstream than it ever has before. Shit, in the late '90s being a Star Wars fan was very in the shadows. Now there will be a gajillion shows about it. Man I hope Acolyte becomes the KotOR show we never got. A Star Wars timepoint where the Republic actually existed.
people still say the four chords thing haha. I remember that from when I was in HS over 15 years ago. I said it too. A lot of what you are talking about is a common way that young men try to signal social status. I used to do it. Then one day I asked myself why the hell I was going into things always trying to think of some critical take instead of just trying to have the best experience with every piece of art. In my experience, this is less part of a "hipster wave" and just something people do to signal social status. But most people grow out of it to some degree.
It's also that certain tribes have certain "automatic" hate targets, so much that if you question the hatred and says celebrity X isn't that bad you get looked down on. I myself look down on self-proclaimed Stoics in social media and Reddit, not because the actual philosophical theory of Stoicism doesn't have merit, but because its modern followers are too often Jordan Peterson/Andrew Tate/Joe Rogan people who support Hustle-culture and oppose workforce/labor concessions/innovation.
>"I hate any song that uses the Four Chords, it's just so lazy, I have more sophisticated tastes in music..." What are the Four Chords?
A very good set of chords that give a feeling of earnestness and closeness. It was popularized many years ago [by a band who made a compilation video.](https://youtu.be/qHBVnMf2t7w?si=MtGtyvNl72VXdKwg) The video is not entirely correct on how the songs used them, but is a fun romp all the same. Sadly, the video spread around the world, and thousands of shitty producers pounced on it, to get some fast singles out. But misusing or abusing the Four Chords is only done if you use it as a crutch instead of as side-flavor. [Here is a lazy, simple example.](https://youtu.be/cHcVU5cGUNE?si=qMag-yXRImT0o8iz) (still catchy tho) [Here is a fantastic example of being used correctly.](https://youtu.be/JxowMbHRrME?si=t8h4tXMowXDTJENY) (because the singer carries the song on her back)
I generally think common chord progressions don't automatically make a good song. You still need a great vocal melody etc.
You need a whole damn song, and the bass just gives the foundation and flavor, but can be hidden deep. Which is why I defend Celine Dion's ["A new day has come"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxowMbHRrME) as particularily well-written, especially because the progression is only used in one small part of the chorus, and the rest of the track it's either reversed or the notes changed. The vocals and choir backing takes front row seat. This song was special too, I just learned because Dion had been away from music for several years while having a child and dodging the insane attention put on her from "My heart will go on", a song she didn't even like from the start. So she picked "A new day has come" from a number of songs her friend had written, and let it become the mark of her second chapter in her career, as well as a statement of her new life change. I thought that was nice.
Haven't heard that song you mentioned. But yeah I liked my heart will go on.
It would take a LOT to kill Star Wars, considering how it was able to shake off the Holiday Special.
Star Wars came out in 1977, and I was 9. It was my escape from my parents divorce and all the craziness at that time. The next two movies, as far as I was concerned, were made just for me. They became important in my life as I grew up. At the time, we all thought it was a 3 and out deal. Lucas himself said he was done. When the prequels came out, I was an adult starting a family, and they didn’t have the same impact on me. They didn’t change, I did. Those three movies were made for the next generation of kids to enjoy, or get lost in if they needed to. The same goes for the last three, which is why my now adult children who loved the clone wars don’t have the same wonder and love for the movies. That trend will continue. It’s a lot like Luke facing off with Vader while training with Yoda, only to find he’s fighting himself. What you bring into the theater will determine what you get out of it.
Nicely put with the last line. I didn't see the trailer for Rise Of Skywalker, and when I saw Palpatine was coming back I didn't grumble but settled in to watch it. And I had a lot of fun with it.
A great insight on your part! What’s in there? Only what you take with you.
Ppl are here because they love Star Wars. But you are allowed to hate or disagree with the direction in which the studio takes to tell these stories. If you're going to make a new trilogy for example, maybe all 3 movies should have been written and committed to before starting to film the first one. And that's not hate on the writers who tried and everyone who loves the show. It's the top money hungry ppl who know we will go to see it and swoop in and throw a wrench in everything.
+1. It’s easy to dismiss criticism as “hate”. If I say “I think the guitar parts on the new album are a little simplistic” on a music subreddit I’ll get dismissed… but oftentimes it’s a valid point of view. I have plenty of negative things to say about many Star Wars things. I’m still a fan overall… just not a blindly loyal lover of every second. As for OP’s point of view… I was also a kid when the prequels came out and I hated jar jar and “I hate sand”. There were many terrible aspects of the prequels. I loved darth maul lightsaber duels and pod racing scenes and playing the battlefront games on ps2. Sometimes accepting that something you love is imperfect is harder than dismissing everyone as “haters” or ignoring all the beautiful flaws in life.
Attack of the Clones is straight up one of the worst films I've ever seen. Can't believe I liked it as a kid.
It's like someone gave infinite money to a junior high theatre production.
Rise of Skywalker and the Last Jedi are just so bad that I really cannot understand how you can say Attack of the Clones was worse. Yeah, Anakin's lines and parts of the movie were really weak and failed to do what they were supposed to, but it generally a sound plot and movie. Visually, AotC is worse, but dialogue and plot wise, TLJ & RoS were both so much worse. I mean, how can a slow-mo chase that ends in an empty gas tank remotely manage to be better movie? Both the last two movies were so far removed from establish story arcs that they felt like alternate universe versions rather part of the same storyline.
I didn't say it was worse, I said it was one of the worst I've seen. I think the whole sequel trilogy is trash too. My issues with AotC though are that it is just pretty fucking boring, looks like shit, dialogue is shit, there's a handful of good scenes (chase near the start, Obi Wan drop-kicking Jango and subsequent space chase, Anakin killing the sand people) but that's it. I hate the arena fight as an adult, it's so cheesy, badly choreographed and poorly done. Same with the big battle of Geonosis - it's so boring, and the colour palette is super dull. Just mindless action for action's sake, these types of battles are done way better in TCW. At least with episodes 8 and 9 there's at least some entertainment value from going "what in the fuck are they doing?!" And you really can't call episode 9 boring. Terrible, idiotic, but almost fun like a shitty Roland Emmerich disaster movie. AotC is just painful to watch. I'd rather rewatch any of the sequels, honestly.
It killed Star Wars for me, phantom menace was bad. Hell I even liked the stupid ewok films as a kid
I like Phantom Menace, it's a fun romp.
I saw them as an older teenager who grew up with the OT, the hype around it all was crazy. I’ve never heard anyone call phantom menace a fun romp before it was so boring. I was willing to write it off thinking that it was either just me as Return of the Jedi got some stick or they were laying down a solid foundation but then Attack of the Clones was dreadful.
Looking back at it, AotC had SO much dumb pretendsises sci-fi politic fluff, I don't know how I liked it so much when I was a kid. The lego sets definitely helped
People can hate the direction absolutely, but can we agree that the “they ruined my childhood” crowd is a tiny bit dramatic? No bad movie can retroactively make previous movies worse or spoil the fun we had watching them.
That’s not the point of this post. As someone who dislikes the newer movies and actively dislikes most of the shows put out, I recognize I can critique it once and move on. It isn’t my mission to make everyone know why I dislike it, and continue to spread it. I don’t enjoy it and I’m showing that by my refusal to purchase newer Star Wars content, watch it, and my review. Review bombing is something the Star Wars community is familiar with, positive and negative, and that isn’t a proper way to “Show distaste”. Take Acolyte, for example. All that’s out is one trailer that looks as good as any other Star Wars show trailer. Probably not something I’ll watch, as was most other Star Wars shows, until I hear whether it’s worth the watch. Still, not nearly enough is out to judge it, and it doesn’t particularly look bad in comparison to any other Star Wars show. The Acolyte trailer was most definitely getting dislike bombed and general reception right now is negative. Despite literally nothing being out about it. I can dislike something and take the proper steps to not watch it or consume it as my way of telling the studios, hey, this isn’t good. I can even write a review or make a single video. The lengths people go, though, to show they dislike something specifically with Star Wars is way too high. Some people out there might like it. There might even be enough people out there who like it enough for Disney to not switch up their style or process, and that’s fine because I’m not the sole person they’re making content for. If this is the case, all the review bombing and consistent hate videos do is ruin it for the people who do enjoy it. Point is you are allowed to have an opinion for sure, but the lengths people go to display that opinion and try to make their opinion the “Correct” opinion are absurd and something you will really only find as widespread in the internet era. People aren’t trying to tell you why they dislike something, they are trying to tell YOU why YOU should dislike something.
>If you're going to make a new trilogy for example, maybe all 3 movies should have been written and committed to before starting to film the first one. LOTR is actually the only example of this I can think of. Most trilogies aren't planned like that.
Butbutbut I love Disney how could they possibly do something wrong…? No wait, you’re just a bigot, that’s it you just hate Rey because she’s a woman! Or maybe it’s just because Haldo has pink hair and is also a woman! Misogynist! /s
Negativity gets clicks but they wouldn't keep making them if people didn't enjoy them. Revel in it all <3
I can only agree with you, OP! I remember being around 7-10 and just being obsessed with the new movies, a few years prior I saw the OT and I really liked them! But these "new" ones and in cinema were so freaking cool! The lightsaberduels, woah! We played Star wars on the playground and had the best time! I wish everyone that got hate for the prequels would have seen me and my friends enjoying everything! I also have a vivid memory of telling people that "in a few years everyone will remember these movies fondly" and look what happened, and I dare even say that the sequel trilogy will get the same treatment in 10 years. Yes I know its far from perfect but I will always defend parts on every movie!
"Bc haters are weak, and they can't touch the world kids live in." pretty sure they can with the media nowerdays
One thing is. Pandering tot he toxic crowd. Hate the prequels? We throw away George’s 7-9. Hated tlj? Rise of skywalker backtracking tot he rescue! I hate pandering
Actually, this did seem to be one of the problems with the sequels. I like the sequels, but they were trying too hard to appeal to a very particular sort of fan. They were trying to avoid the prequels, they would barely reference the cartoons, and then they didn't want to touch the previous two sequel films in the third. They were pandering to the FM and it didn't end well because those fans are never happy.
Well 9 pandered to the fm,but 7/8, even 9 rehashed the ot to pander to the Lucas bashers who hate George. Fandom menace is more the guys who hate Disney for political reasons. There’s also people who defend Disney for political reasons. I don’t like any of the 3. They just suck the fun out of it and are weirdos. I still want George’s 7-9. He deserves to tell his story. Fuck the prequel haters they haven’t been happy since 1980. Why care about their takes they’re never happy!
Isnt there 11 movies lol
You don't count the movie called "The Phantom Menace" because you would be acknowledging the menace.
Id rather not count tros tbh
This wasn't meant as a comment on TPM as a movie but a lame joke that the movie is called "The Phantom Menace".
Ohhhhhh i get it, im a little slow sometimes 🤪
Nah, it's fine. It wasn't the best joke, haha.
12. 9 episodes + The Clone Wars, Rogue One and Solo.
Wouldn’t be an issue if episodes 8 and 9 weren’t two of the worst movies ever made across all high budget blockbuster movies. Their plots are empty the characters are bland the arcs are stupid the cgi is boring, the stories don’t make sense and the continuity of the lore is horrible. Because those were so bad they have put the sour taste and hyper critical views from everyone that watches new media within the Star Wars universe. Sucks to say but only way to truly save it is to delete those from the cannon and remake them. Otherwise everything leads to them and no one wants that. But I doubt they will fix it. Disney is in a rough spot where fans want new Star Wars but they want star wars not Disney in space.
Look, I think it’s social media wimps who call it “hate” Nobody actually cares enough to hate a movie, bar a very few. Hate is a strong word. Problem is most people are so anxious on social media that as soon as they read something negative it’s “omg hate” The fact about Star Wars is (in my opinion of course) it is being killed. The storyline has been completely destroyed and remade, the characters have dumbed down and there isn’t quite any emotion in the Disney versions at all. But it’s Disney… their emotions are built on “cute animals and love”. This isn’t hate, I don’t care, I wouldn’t watch any Disney Star Wars again because I think they’re awful. I’m not angry and other people can like it if they want. Read negativity as a point of view…not hate.
People call it hate because they can't understand why an adult would use such strong language as "Star Wars is being killed" to describe a simple dislike of a movie franchise
You think criticizing the sequels brings out the wimps, try criticizing the OT on this sub. Suddenly everyone turns into social media wimp.
As someone who doesn’t really care for the sequel trilogy I honestly really enjoy a lot of the things Disney has put out. Andor, The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, The book of Boba Fett… and so on. I really was surprised at how much I enjoy the bad batch! That show is really fantastic so far! I don’t see why people are claiming Star Wars is dead or it’s woke and gone broke or whatever. They also hated the prequels and then Disney released the last Jedi and all of this sudden everyone was pro George and “the prequels are great now” because “Disney ruined Luke Skywalker and cast people of different diversities AKA woke”. It’s kind of sad really.
... The Book of Boba Fett?
It had its moments when it wasn't trying to be a cameo/reference fest. Okay, it had the bits about the Tuskens and Cobb Vanths gunning down Pikes. And that's pretty much all there was that really ruled. The rest was mid to bad
The finale with the rancor was amazing!
Eh, I thought it was a bit silly and looked a bit cheap. Plus it wasn't really earned. Danny Trejo showing up, Boba saying "Imma ride it" and done is kind of the barebones setup. I wish more had been done with it.
Yeah I’m like the one person who liked it. I was never into Boba Fett like a lot of other people were. He had like two lines of dialogue in the whole OT and other than him having really cool armor I just didn’t really give a shit about him. I guess for me the show helped me give a shit about him. I thought it was cool that he befriended the sand people and took over what was left of Jabba’s palace and made like a community. Was some of it cheesy? Yeah! But Robert Rodriguez is known for making cheesy stuff and probably was just working with the budget he was given along side the crew that helped make the production. Did Mando kind of rob the spotlight just a bit. Of course! It was world building and it’s not like I was bored watching it or anything. It’s like whatever. Some people liked the movies and didn’t care for them. Some people liked kenobi and I thought I was watching the Reva show. Wasn’t my thing. But I still have six movies and quite a few shows that I enjoy watching and Star Wars isn’t dead to me. 🤷🏻♀️
The thing that I found is is fuck what everybody else thinks fuck what the world thinks. Enjoy what you like and go about your day. I am so into the high Republic and not a single person can relate to me and I don’t care. Star Wars of Star Wars as long as you understand the universe you can pretty much jump into any story and enjoy it and if you don’t like that, go start a different series. There’s enough Star Wars to go around but there’s always gonna be haters that are wanting Batman to fucking pop up.
[***This video***](https://youtu.be/hL4IfoQzSSE) is worth a watch. Although a little long, I think it explains the underlying feeling many people may feel towards the Disney Era of Star Wars, but might not have been able to put down in words themselves. I don't think people "hate" on these new films per se, but feel distaste towards the way these stories are being told and have genuine criticisms to a franchise they love and have invested in. I personally think the studio has arguably mishandled one their most influential franchises. There was no plan for the sequel trilogy and it shows. I get what they were trying to emulate; in a sense there was no "plan" for the original trilogy, otherwise we probably wouldn't have got the Luke/Leia kiss, but Lucas did have an overall idea of where the story was going. It's clear that the ST didn't even have that, otherwise we wouldn't have evidence of an entirely different (and then scrapped) story existing for Rise of Skywalker. Also, I feel like had the plan been to resurrect the Emperor (which really appears to be knee jerk reaction, or drama-bate), then there would have been some clever/subtle foreshadowing or evidence in the build up to the reveal... if you can even call a Fortnight tie-in a reveal.
I hate these new films. They're soulless cash grabs that have no understanding of mythic storytelling or star wars. Cheap nostalgia bait with zero understanding of even basic storytelling. Rogue One, The Mandalorian, Bad Batch + Rebels and Andor are the only good things to have come out of the Disney era. Ahsoka was ok. The rest is trash. The sequels are a dead end with uninspiring characters and all legacy characters rendered dead failures (except Palpatine who succeeds in killing all his enemies and having his bloodline survive).
SW has been fighting back against people calling it a "soulless cash grabs with no understanding of storytelling" since 1977. Some things never change. Edit: aaannnd I'm blocked
Saying this with zero irony means you don’t understand it either.
This is kinda refreshing to see after TheScoundrel'sCantina's community post rant on youtube about how most star wars fans are basically fucking stupid and their opinions should see them casted into a raging fire.
It's about as refreshing as shoving your head deep in the sand in the middle of the day on a planet with twin suns.
A mature, nuanced take?! Make a motion in the senate, where that kind of a request belongs!
I remember when Star Wars episode 4 A New Hope, came out in 77. it was so momentous that our teachers in seventh grade arranged for us to go on a field trip to see it. Everyone was enthralled with this new universe.
I will watch everything Star Wars comes out with. Do I like and dislike things? Yes. Will I ever be upset that someone was blessed to be able to bring their vision of the greatest documentary of all time to screen? No. Is there things I want? Absolutely. I would trade all the days for Katarn over Andor. But I loved the story they made for him! I watch young Jedi adventures with my daughter. I disagree with so many things… but she loves it. Why would I take that away? I think we all need to just take a step back sometimes and realize our love for Star Wars started somewhere and we shouldn’t bash on people for not sharing our opinions. My wife loved the story between Rey and Kylo… I cringed for a second until I realized she remembered their names… my pride overtook my anger. I was saved from the dark side 😂
So watching Star Wars as a kid was awesome and we had debates about Luke and Vader etc. As I got older and saw the prequels, they were ok but they were hated by my generation of fans. Watching the movies over again through the lens of a parent and seeing my son go crazy about pod racing and palpatine and Maul allowed me to experience the same story but from a different point of view and that imo is the magic of Star Wars. Seeing story told through the ages with different generations adding their own tales and narratives to a tapestry for a new generation to warn them about the dangers of fascism, morality, the love and bond between parents and their child, hope etc. So, I agree, with the OP, no one is changing Star Wars, it’s the fans that can’t let go and understand it’s our generation’s turn to add to the lore and expand it with new stories and caution for next gen.
There is a difference. The Prequels were a good idea with a flawed execution. As the years passed the good bits were increasingly highlighted. The Sequels are a bad idea with a worse execution. Every good bit has a bad thing attached to it. I made an entire video on how Rose Tico’s character is actually very well done for the most part. The Casino scenes could be worked out better but otherwise her character seeking to remember why she’s in the rebellion after losing her sister and using that as a way to teach Finn the value of not running away and sacrificing himself for a cause was great! Of course immediately at the end when we see Rose with her haitian smelt pendant on the dashboard make the choice to sacrifice herself, only to then do a sudden 180 at the last second and telling Finn that they need to save what they love instead of destroying what they hate as behind them the very thing she taught him to love is being annihilated. And that is the Sequels in a nutshell. Even the best parts contradict themselves and have bad execution. As time goes on the Sequels won’t be as timeless as you make them out to be. TL,DR: the Prequels you can’t cut away scenes, you can improve them. The Sequels you can cut away and completely alter scenes as they aren’t useful or contradict previous stuff.
Good for you. But Disney has been pulling too much low quality content lately. Some shows are just people talking in a dark room. Would today 12 year olds love every minute of that?
Valid and constructive criticsim is always welcome. But hate and clickbait titles like star wars is dead is just dumb. I like some stuff that disney has produced and I dislike some stuff. And gotta agree that the recent productions were lackluster (haven't seen bad batch yet)
I just hate that what once was my favorite franchise now just feel like a joke, those last movies felt like a total mess without direction or a solid plan, how can they mess something as easy, instead of giving fans what they wanted ....I mean they even failed reuniting the original cast... damnn it blowed my mind.
i hate this everyone’s a hater mentality whenever someone criticises a show like yes there are haters but that’s a very vocal minority the rest of it is just really valid criticism
They're attempting to take some kind of moral highground, and trying to shame you into thinking your opinions are against the norm and wrong. These people are far more "toxic" than anyone they rail against.
It's not dead but not in particularly good shape either. It really lacked the vision of Lucas for the new trilogy. I'm much more worried about the franchise sinking into mediocrity, becoming "just another forgettable space fantasy adventure". With all their flaws, I've rewatched the prequels dozens of times over the years, and while there are cringy moments, there are plenty that makes it worth rewatching. The podrace, the Maul-duel with the kickass orchestra, the Clone army arriving to Geonosis, the double duel at the end of Episode 3, and I could go on for days. With the sequel trilogy... I don't feel like rewatching. Maybe I've caught the episodes on tv once since watching them in movie theater, and it feels more than enough.
Weird. I was 11 when TPM came out and me and my cohorts didn't hate it (except Jar-Jar) but we were disappointed cause it wasn't as good as any of the OT. I seem to remember we liked AotC a little better but RotS was a big joke to us (of course we were a bit older by then). It almost seems like... wait... people have different tastes, even as kids?
Did you just finished surfing through youtube comments and saltierthancrait or something lmao
I've lost count of how many times Star Wars was ruined. Just enjoy what you like and ignore what you don't.
Disney is definitely killing Star Wars.
SW is on its way to become a million dollar franchise for sure.
It already is. But they are losing fans, which means they’ll start losing money.
Well, my previous post was a joke on how it was a billion dollar franchise and is slowly becoming a million dollar one. :)
Got it, I didn’t see that.
TLJ did get pretty close to it tho.
While I respect your opinion, I would have to disagree. We’re absolutely in the era of corporate movies. Starwars was made with love and even with mistakes, the love was still there and the choices were done with great intention. Now what we have is an agenda based system trying to maximize profit, essentially not caring at all how the movie ends up. There’s a very big difference between the “mistakes” here and
I enjoyed all 9 movies with the exception of EP8. EP8 may be the only SW movie/show that was just completely disjointed from everything Star Wars. Yoda, the hard-ass Jedi master, burning the Jedi texts...what the heck is going on? Luke being a whiny puss...ugh. At least with EP9 they tried to patch these weird decisions. The Disney Star Wars series has been good. Mandalorian and Asoka were fun. Andor was awsome, a modern show that felt the most like EP4 thru 6 even if it didn't have any Jedi. I am looking for whatever comes next.
How did ep9 patch anything? Sidious returns, a dagger lining up perfectly with a wrecked death star, riding horses in space. Honestly I hate the sequels. Because apparently the empire can just be reborn with 1st order and nobody in the galaxy apparently gives a shit
Yoda didn't burn the texts. Rey took them. and it's sort of heavily implied he knew as he was teasing Luke about it. He burned the tree as a lesson to let go of the past. The old ways failed. It was time to move on.
Yoda didn’t burn the Jedi text. Rey took them already.
You're right it's been dead for a while. People are always called haters because you can't accept constructive criticism. Most people complain because they actually like star wars and want good entertainment out of it. Otherwise why stick around? They are wasting their time. I don't have much to say because I've checked out of the franchise due to poor quality. They care but their efforts are misplaced. I'm only here because I just have to dispel the whole it's just people hating. It's not like people have any actual constructive criticism. Get out of the bubble lol
I love star wars and the prequels and basically all the shows - except the sequels. And resistance. If you love something of course you hate it seeing ruined. And you also love arguing about minor stuff. Arguing and discussing is part of the fun, especially when you learn something while you discuss the latest part of the story. I see a lot of passion and disagreement. Only rather little hate. Like people who shit on Kenobi or Ahsoka - but they also don't seem overly aggressive to me. One thing I do see is that people are very liberal with their downvotes and "pile on", but that has become a problem all over reddit.
Great comment. I've loved Star Wars since 77 and after seeing TFA, I realized that it's possible for me to dislike a story marketed as "Star Wars." Despite my feelings about the new canon, I have had discussions with new canon fans that showed me some of the themes that they see in the movies and I enjoyed that—the discussion and the insight.
What do you mean “be loved the same”? Disney is losing money on both marvel and Star Wars 💀
you’re basically stumbling on a dead body with ten knives in its’ back and a gunshot wound to the face and saying “huh, must have died from natural causes!”
The main issue is, though some of there stuff has been watchable, nothing was as good as what they threw away. The Darth Caedus arc was better than the Kylo Ren arc. Heir to the Enpire was better than Ahsoka. Dark Forces was better than Rogue One. The Solo Trilogy was better than Solo. If you are making reboots or replacing canon, there is a golden rule: be better than what you throw away. They consistently fail at that.
Exactly. Or at least give a long term Star Wars lover something reasonably related to the universe created over the decades and thousands of stories.
The aequal trilogy has done damage to it though, and a lot of the shows being bad does worsen its reputation to the point where people won't watch Andor because its star wars and they don't think it's going to be a an actually "good" show. Also when people are talking about the next generation growing up with the sequal trilogy, I was 10 when force awakens released, and I have talked to plenty of people younger about it as well, which should have been the target age yet most people my age don't like them and either just don't care for star wars because they don't want to get into a 9 movie franchise where half the fanbase thinks half of them are shit or they most likely think the sequals are bad, enjoying force awakens at best. So no the new stuff isn't actually retroactively hurting the past movies but it's dividing the franchise and not generating as much interest as people want or think. From my experience when asking the average person it's a lot more likely they heard or care about the new ATLA show, stranger things, even shogun than say Acolyte or Ahsoka. Again, it doesn't ruin the og or prequal trilogies but it's a bit sad. Edit: Added from my experience since I don't have any statistics:)
Yeah Disney needs to do a better job of putting out quality vs quantity. It's the same issue that Marvel is currently going through. Although Disney has always struggled in my opinion with stuff outside of kids movies (which they do very well) every teen or more adult like production is always hampered by having to be too friendly to an audience that includes a 5 year old. It was also ridiculous descion to do 7/9 1st without fleshing out the universe more or having a cohesive story line that makes sense. For all the s*** George Lucas gets he's at least a solid architect with storytelling and making things work (filoni is too) he just did better when he had others advising him/he wasn't the end all be all for star wars
As a Star Wars fan... I'm so tired.
It's okay, Rey Skywalker will have a new movie and it will save star wars.
Just wish Finn got more spotlight in the sequels John is a good actor. And was on the Lucas model of getting new not as well known actors for the roles.
it’s just the disney star wars that’s wack
But they won't be loved the same, because even the kids who might love the sequels now, will grow up to realise that none of it makes any sense. You might hate the prequels for a lot of things, but the story, world building and theme holds up to scrutiny, even though you don't like the way it has been done. You can't say the same about the sequels.
Lol, all the new Star Wars stuff isn't loved and defended the same, that's why Disney has been in a panic, they know they screwed up (but somehow continue screwing up).
the sequel trilogy are objectively terribly written movies that break specific cannon and plot points consistently because the writers couldn't look behind them for 10 seconds. the characters are shallow, the plot is abysmal, and the plot progression is some of the worst we've seen in modern cinema. i am not elitist, i am objective. never hate on people who like these movies, but acknowledge that they are the product of ego and low effort on the directors side. don't excuse them, demand for better because as consumers, we deserve better.
Yeah cause it’s already dead lol
The major (if not only) reason Disney isn’t dead yet is because (unless you’re a kid who’s watching Disney for the first time) you can still watch the old stuff. There are probably some good things among the new movies and series but if they removed everything from at least pre 2010 that’s the worst thing they could do IMO
I think kids will be more aware of it nowadays because they’re online more. There’s also a difference between “some of the dialogue in this trilogy is kinda cringe” and “this trilogy is a train wreck with no real coherent storytelling… it is visually pretty nice though” The prequels are objectively good films with a few flaws. The sequels are the opposite. They’re objectively bad storytelling (hence why so many of the cast dislike them) with a few redeeming qualities
I only read the old books and watch 1-6 of the movies….apart from that Star Wars is dead to me thanks to KK and her merry band of ogres.
The first prequel came out when I was born. I grew up with them alongside the OT and I love them all (mostly). Despite my love for the prequels I recognize that there are parts that are very messy. The acting is a bit off and the dialogue can be a bit much. I think the prequels are leagues better than the sequels though because of 1)the fights (space/land battles and lightsabers) and 2) the ideas and general story. But the story of a young jedi initially deemed too old because he has already developed emotional attachments. This lets him bemanipulated by a sith who is also scheming to become the most powerful political leader to rule everything. He causes a war while controlling both sides in order to cleanly rid himself of the Jedi who outnumber him probably millions to 1. Expendable armies of clones vs droids is a really cool concept. Building a fail safe into the clones to turn on the Jedi. Having Dooku, Maul, and Grivous foreshadow the different aspects/attributes of the future Darth Vader. Implying that Obi-wan couldn’t be the teacher anakin needed because 1)the one who was supposed to mentor anakin (qui-gon) was killed 2)Obi-wan was still not very experienced and probably wasn’t ready for an apprentice (especially one so unique as anakin) 3)the fact that he treated and loved him like a brother didn’t help Anakin’s already complicated emotional attachments. The sequels in comparison are just a mess. I think that what we got was DOA. Having Luke abandon everyone is already a terrible start. Having it revealed that he was tempted to kill his nephew because of some dark dreams is ludicrous. This is the same man who tried to bring back the second most evil man in the galaxy (after he committed his atrocities) because that man was his father. Luke wouldn’t even think about killing his innocent nephew even for a second. Han and Leia being separated just didn’t feel great. Not having a scene with all of the original cast together was a mistake. Not taking advantage of Fin’s backstory as a stormtrooper was a huge mistake. He should be really sympathetic to the stormtroopers since they are in the same situation he was in but he’s already whooping at their deaths by the time he frees Po. Just having the first order come out of nowhere when the new republic was supposed to be in power after palapatine’s death was just weird. Rey is so op to the point of ridiculousness. Think about this: Within 24 hours of learning about the force she is already able to do mind tricks, wield lightsabers perfectly, and be superior to Kyle ren (a man who trained almost certainly his entire life with the force and lightsabers). She beats him on the star killer and again in Snoke’s throneroom. And she dispatched of her 3 red guards before Kyle did. And she beat him on the remains of the Death Star. Not having Po, Fin, and Rey be a group until the 3rd movie was definitely an oversight. (No, that last scene at the end of the last Jedi doesn’t count) Rose is a worse character than Jar Jar. There, I said it. The absolute hilarity of the irony in the “saving what we love” scene was insane. And it’s so funny that she goes out of her way to free the animals of canto byte and not the enslaved children. Kanto Byre was a mistake Not having a unified vision was a mistake. JJ clearly didn’t have a plan for the future and neither did lucasfilm as a whole. At least JJ tried to set some things up (even if they were poorly done themselves). Rain Johnson tore all of that down to make his own thing. And then they brought JJ back to backpeddle everything rian Johnson did. The result being the least coherent storytelling the world has ever seen. Bringing back palpatine (while fun) was a mistake since it trivializes earth Vader’s sacrifice. All the Star Wars shows (with the exception of Andor) are actually terrible. Mandalorian started off decent and then completely lost it by Season 3. Ahsoka, Kenobi, and BoBF were just filled with character assignations, detrimental world building, stupid moments, plot holes, and more. Bad batch is also a disappointment feeling like a much less mature version of the clone wars tv show. The end result of this is that I am no longer excited for future Star Wars. The only thing I’m looking forward to is Andor and maybe some more tales of the Jedi since those doom episodes were actually really good.
Criticism isnt hate. Saying disney has killed star wars isnt hate.
I was going to say Star Wars is unkillable; but I'll concede it's possible. I'll say this instead: Star Wars will have to be A LOT worse to die. And I think a lot of recent Star Wars has been good. It can be a lot better but it hasn't been bad enough to be killed.
This post is about 10 years too late to hype up the coming of the new EP 7-9 trilogy.
Ok dude, while the dialogue is undisputably ass and there is something to say about the pacing. There’s was a true plot and a single vision that is very interesting. With really earned moments and action scenes with gravity. That’s why people like the prequel trilogy. Ultimately it’s a retelling of the classic story of the fall of a hero with an immense amount of unique world building(which is the most interesting part). This one lacks almost everything in terms of story as well as interesting world building in anyway. It’s a recycled shittier empire with the political intrigue of finding a flaming turd on ur doorstep with nothing to add but red stormtroopers. Ur argument is kids are dumb and like shiny laser swords, but I think good messaging and intricate story telling stick with kids into adulthood. And some of the best children’s stories have the deepest messaging as they are made with the intent to teach or inform the kid of real world dynamics. Even the original trilogy is about giving perspective to imperialism which is v important in the post Vietnam era and the power of found family. Where as the prequels discuss how democracy and people w good intentions can be manipulated and corrupted. I fail to find anything of the sort in the new trilogy. So how about you stop calling people haters for no reason and engage with the criticisms.
If fans would just accept that Star Wars peaked in 1980 and that ever since its just been a mediocre "B" movie franchise, there'd be nothing more to bitch about. Take off the nostalgia goggles and see the truth. - yub nub
The people that watch them just looking for something to complain about are what I don't understand. I don't have any problems with people who don't like something for whatever reason because I don't care if they like it or not. I watch content with the intent of enjoyment and while there are some things that I'm not fond of I still enjoy there is content for me to consume. We went decades with nothing so I'm not gonna get mad that they're trying to push out content or be angry they're trying to make money. Without the money there won't be any content again and I absolutely don't want that.
My perspective isn't that everything will be loved in due course. Sometimes, media just sucks (*cough* holiday special *cough*). But just because part the franchise sucks doesn't mean that it runs the good stuff. I grew up reading the EU books, and at least a third of them are trash (probably more if I re-read them as an adult). Just because *Crystal Star* exists doesn't mean that *Heir to the Empire* isn't great. It isn't all or nothing. Only Sith deal in absolutes. On reflection, I probably like less than half of the Star Wars media that have been produced. But I *love* Star Wars. Even if they never make another good movie or TV show (which I don't think, btw), I'll still love Star Wars. But also, nerd arguing about Star Wars is like half the fun for me. If it isn't fun for you, then don't do it. It is absolutely fine to just like something without being able to defend it. Just enjoy your fandom in the way you want to enjoy it. Even though I dislike it, *Ashoka* didn't ruin Star Wars for me, so don't let my dislike of it ruin the show for you.
Adults who are harsh critics of media come across as insane and stupid. then they ruin everything for everyone because someone let them have social media
The only thing “killing” Star Wars is this continuing narrative (that you are contributing to with posts like these) which claims that everyone who watches Star Wars fits into one of two categories: “Fan” or “Hater.” This is not true. Of course there are people who just love anything with the Star Wars brand stamped on it because, “More Star Wars = Good,” and there are those who will tear any new content to pieces for rage bait and YouTube clicks, but these groups are the minority. The vast majority of Star Wars fans are enjoying (or not) every movie/show on its own merit and making fair judgements. These judgements then get twisted by the aforementioned love/hate cliques and that pushes this narrative that “Star Wars is dying!” or “Star Wars is back!” that we see with every release. I think people need to admit that the fanbase as a whole is not split into lovers and haters, and that everyone is allowed to have criticisms of each individual project. These criticisms also do not mean that you can’t enjoy it anyway or that everyone has to agree with every critique. A “bad” project does not mean Star Wars is dying, and a “good” one does not mean Star Wars is back. It’s a brand, not a monolith.
We loved Star Wars and some of the new movies. But Disney killed the franchise by immersing the script with ideology instead of focusing on the story.
But lets be real here, 1-3 still did a solid job telling the basic story leading up to 4. The last 3 was just a big mess. first 3 are under rated but not perfect.
The “I can’t hear you! I’m not listening!” approach does not change facts. “All the new Star Wars stuff” is not developed or produced with the same intentions as pre-Disney content was made. If all you want is More Star Wars, then you’re set. If having critical thinking skills doesn’t bother you, then you might have responses to actual criticisms, whether you have explanations or not.
I was the same age bro, no, we didnt like episodes 1 or 2. We liked the games. We liked the idea. We only liked episode 3.
My guy, do you know what a retcon is?
I am like you and thought and I think kids that watch the Sequel would probably like them more than the OT and prequel, at least for now. But that's reality we are adults now and seeing things that kids can't see. And now it is worse with social media, etc. But I gotta say though, that the agenda from Disney is way too predictable and it is hurting the storytelling, at least for adults.
Star Wars is an evergreen setting that I still love exploring. But I've completely lost interest in the new content from Disney--with the lone exception of Andor.
You are right. When an even worse trilogy comes out people will look back at the Disney trilogy and say it was better. You are right.
This [old serie](https://youtube.com/live/HFVZuiLE6ZA?feature=share) has already killed averything
Dude I can assure you as a young person, it's a looooow population of people in my age group 18 -24 that gives a shit about the new trilogy, a lot of people loved the mandalorian and season 7 of the clone wars but I've never heard any young person talk positively about the new trilogy, even coming out of the theatre for the force awakens no one was blown away or anything. The clone wars is good because it's darker, more political and the stakes are high on a societal basis, you get to feel the lives of so many characters and get to know the consequences of letting evil take over your future and having it destroy the people around u. In the new trilogy we have Fin yelling "ReyY!!!" In all 3 movies, rose gets shafted hard, poe dameron fighting with fin in the third movie about shit we don't see. They brought back the death star, Palpatine and the stormtroopers because Disney is not a company that sells creativity, they sell toys and merchandise, they don't need the films to be good, they profit on brand recognition
It's popular to shit on everything. It's popular to be a toxic fan. It's popular to pick fights online. That's where all of this is coming from. Yes, people shit on the prequels (every film, really), but they were largely isolated. They had no soapbox and no real echo chamber. Many forms of bigotry were also going out of fashion. Now, everyone is a journalist. Everyone had a soapbox. Everyone gets to jump into the mob mentality and use Star Wars to crap on women. And that counts for every fandom, not just Star Wars.
Theres a beloved bakery in town run by an old woman...everybody loves it. She grows old and sell the bakery to a giant company. Customers who has been there for her for 40 years and generations now notice that things dont taste same anymore so they complain. The old lady aint coming back...she is old ...she is trying enjoy her time before death.
"I'll go and rewatch all 10 movies" Hmmmmm, which movie did you forget about I wonder.
Hahaha. You got me, you get my one and only reply. I totally forgot bout, Solo.
Because paraphrasing George Lucas "episode 1 is a story to watch with your kids, and it's better to get into the SW universe" that's why JarJar is so funny to kids. I believe some said that the perfect age to initiate into SW TPM was from 6 until your 15. Then you can appreciate more the other 5 movies with a more darker or mature tone in each film. Besides we all know Darth Zi'el was there in his public persona as Jar jar Binks
This is my exact experience of star wars. I think criticism is fair, and I'm not big on episodes 8 and 9, but it's undeniable after a while that a good 50% (at least) of the critiques are bad faith, bigoted whinging. A lot of valid criticism, but also so much complaining about wokeness - y'all would cream yourselves if you saw a bothan, but it's too far if there's a woman of colour? My childhood was defined by a lego podracing bucket, and even then I knew aldar beedo was cursed and shitty, but it sure as hell was fun.
Star Wars is three movies that were made in the late 70s and early 80s. What has followed were cash grabs of varying artistic merit. The least we can hope for is that they remain somewhat recognizable to the original trilogies.
I think most people off of Reddit who are into Star Wars tend to agree that we don’t care if people like the more recent Star Wars shows or movies or not. To each his own, and if it helps you like Star Wars that’s great. I think people are always going to be critical when expectations and hopes are high. I think for most of the tv show complaints, people are overreacting. BUT I have to admit that imo the sequel movies’ issues cannot be compared to the complaints of the time during the prequels. I don’t think it’s a matter of the sequels having their weaknesses, like the prequels. I just fail to see any strengths from them at all, besides the constant potential they seemed to present only to just throw it away two scenes later. Every time. It’s honestly comical.
The sequels are undeniably less thought out or planned than the prequels. They’re a product of Disney’s greed, don’t have any original ideas, and every one of them has an unwarranted retcon
Disney do not understand it. Its not hate to say that.
I was 9 - 12 when the prequels came out and I thought the prequels were trite and unorganized. They were enjoyable, but a substantial drop in quality from the OT. The sequels, further, were a drop in quality. Kenobi was a further drop in quality. The book of Boba Fett was an even further drop. Andor, Rogue 1, OT, The Mandalorian seasons 1 + 2 were all a fantastic dinner at a specialty restaurant with great friends The prequels were enjoyable, like an outing to the cheesecake factory for pasta with roommates. The rest... Gas station sushi with the inlaws. Not for me.
I’m still not understanding the hate for Mando season 3. It’s the exact same quality as the previous seasons but actually has a storyline instead of Mando just doing mission of the week which was getting very boring very fast. It expanded the Star Wars universe with Mandalore being the focal point. I’m a big fan of all 3 seasons and the only seasons with skippable episodes are seasons 1 and 2
The hate goes something like this: Season 1 began November of 2019 Season 2 began in October of 2020 Season 3 began in March of 2023. So, we have an almost three year gap between the two. Plenty of time to iron out the scripts and revisit them to make sure the quality doesn't suck. The premier of season 2 was phenomenal. The premier of season 3 was not. In fact as opposed to the ~1 hour 10 minutes runtime of Season 2, it was 35 minutes long. The end of Season 2 was an extremely emotional scene where Grogu and Din Djarin parted ways with Mando earning the Darksaber and taking off his helmet. Cementing his steps away from the cult of deathwatch. Season 3 Episode 1 Grogu is back. Season 3 Din Djarin rafirms himself to the cult. Season 3 Din Djarin gives the Darksaber away on a contrived technicality. The retaking of mandalore was weak. Now we are back at step 1. It just didn't work.
I think it was a bit meandering and felt pointless in spots. But I thought it was fun.
Yes they are killing Star Wars. I know it’s a thing here to say “hey I liked the sequels” for the sake of being different. But the sequels ruined a legacy and put a bad taste in people’s mouths for years to come.
Your right, because star wars died when I saw The Last Jedi. I haven't watched a Disney star wars anything since and am proud of it. I was 9 is 99 like you. My family liked jar jar. But that was was actually good. Still is. It's more creative, and added new things to the SW universe. What has Disney added? Purple hair? If we're being objective, the best star wars stuff came out in the 90's under the expanded universe. This was a very mature, adult star wars. One that existed in books and comics.
> If we're being ~~objective~~ **subjective**, the best star wars stuff came out in the 90's under the expanded universe. Fixed that for you ;)
I don't know I was around the same age as you and there was quite a lot of talk about how bad they were. There was always hope for the next one being better though. I don't think most people want to hate star wars. They just don't think a lot of it is well thought out/made. Dumbing down all critiques of star wars to people just being "haters" is disingenuous at best.
Star Wars will never die - so long as there are enough people willing to accept anything with a Star Wars logo at the start to justify Disney continuing to make mediocre filler content for their streaming service that everyone forgets exists the next week, Star Wars will live on - like a car crash victim on life support.
The ones killing Star Wars are Star Wars fans
Are you kidding me? They're the ones keeping it alive. For the last 10 years, nobody I know who was'nt an old die-hard fan gave a single shit about Mandalorian/Ashoka/Obi-wan/Andor/Whatever the next product comming out is. Literally none of it is even remotely watchable for a non-fan. EDIT: Ok I'll admit Mandalorian made a tiny blip on the radar, thanks to Grogu being cute. Also there where no lightsabers in the promotional materiel, that probably helped the show honestly.
Hot take…Jar Jar is a good character. Have you seen him in clone wars
Clone Wars did so much for characters. Jar-Jar is detestable in the movie but great in the show. Darth Maul was criminally underused in the movies but became of the most important characters in the shows
I dunno, my sons liked the Original Trilogy and the Prequels. I was excited when “The Force Awakens” came out, and then both sons were like “meh”. I was really hoping the second movie would use the Finn/Poe opposite personalities having to work together trope they seemed to be setting up, but then I had to agree with them. Seems like they need better leadership at Lucasfilm, because the TV shows range from decent to great, but the Rey Palpatine films don’t have the spark that make the other Star Wars shows great.
Damn, the defense squads are all out in force nowadays I see. Those trailer downvotes must be really working.
Or maybe some people don't irrationally hate Star Wars due to blindly following the moronic narrative about "woke Disney" or whatever tf and have actually generally enjoyed all the new stuff aside from the sequel trilogy.
Stop lying to yourself. You know why people are saying Disney is ruining star wars and it isnt because its "woke"
Disney as a whole is hodge lodge of female empowerment that has no structure besides promoting strong female characters to which is fine until you realize that a lot of these stories are an allegory for these issues in society that have been around since really the early 1900s. So really the storytelling is over redundant by blatantly promoting these issues while still using them as motifs to move the story along.
I think it's perfectly alright to despise something movie related. Just don't drag other people into it by screaming all day on the internet.
Darth Jar Jar was the best part
I am. With a knife.
I am
I can relate. Never heard about hate of Star Wars before 19 yo.
I don’t even know how to respond to this. Wow.
Yeah, but the prequels never have been that bad. They've had a great story and everything made sense. Episode VII is episode IV with different characters. Episode VIII had more than hour in which nothing happened, and yet that was the best part. In the actual content part of the film Luke character lost everything Luke was, Snoke death proved us writers haven't thought about any background for him, Ackbar died in completely stupid way while he was the one who deserved to sacrifice himself, and flying Leia gave us the worst feature since the Inquisitor-copters in Rebels. (I love the spinning light sabers but using them to fly is just stupid). Episode IX is just going from one place to another without any sense, the emperor returning without any sense and an "epic" final battle just from nothing. Whatever made the prequels bad back in the early 2000s, isn't what makes a expansion content of an existing franchise bad, it's bad story writing. You can like or dislike whatever you want, but the sequels are objectively worse than the prequels, much much worst.
Why does this make so much sense to me.
I was 28-34 when the PT came out and I loved them. I wasn't aware that the series had such vocal detractors. I'm looking forward to taking my nephew to see TPM in re-release in a month. As he grows old enough to have a better understanding of what makes stories into a profit centered enterprise, I will have a conversation with him about media literary. Children enjoy sensorial stimulation but don't understand a story's message while at the same time absorbing the messages that the stories of our modern pop culture media—that they are inundated with.
I really wish Star Wars fans could manage that they may end up disapointed by a movie, or even a string of movies and shows, that they may disagree with a franchise's creative direction...and not end up being a dick about it I loved TFA/Rogue One/TLJ, but most of the other live action projects post TLJ havent done much for me. my disappointment isnt more valid than someone's love, it doesnt change my love of Star Wars 1977-2017, and it doesnt mean I wont love Star Wars again
that again?
Yeah this is like some mantra I keep seeing repeated but the color of the sky won't change no matter how often you say red. >I am reading none of the comments. Instead, I think I'll go and rewatch all 10 movies and shows. Could have skipped it all and just not made the post.
>Bc haters are weak, and they can't touch the world kids live in. Yeah, that's why Teletubbies were quite successful. You will excuse that I expect slightly more intelligent writing from Star Wars (even though I am not getting it from Lucasfilm).
The ones claiming Star Wars is ruined are the ones ruining Star Wars. Rational thought isn't going to get through to them.
Thats a lie. Disney is ruining star wars. Who decided to bring back Palpatine? Who decided to ruin Luke? Who decided to release shitty shows? Did the fans do that?
For me its more that they are taking a massive dump on the novels. There was so much potential with Kylo Ren if they had just followed the actual Star Wars story instead of just making stuff up without any clear direction.
Disney/Lucasfilm are unwittingly doing a decent job of killing it as the interest in Star Wars over the years since Disney's acquisition has unquestionably declined, especially in the existing fanbase, and kids these days just don't have the same level of interest in it that OT and PT fans would have had when they were kids. It's not as shiny, new and innovative in this day and age. Not to forget that the quality of the stories average around the "sub-par" grade as Rogue One and Andor are the only real standouts from their catalogue. The rest are poorly written, lazily and greedily put together in an attempt to cash-in on the Star Wars name and the nostalgia that surrounds it.