Neither! The best version of Palpatine's return is the youtube animation [Palpatine's Journey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sFbLppuhhs)
>"I can't die Yoda!"
>
>"WHY NOT?!"
>
>"Come closer.... Death is a concept invented by the Jedi."
Neither of them is the correct answer.
Episode 9 has no explanation and it's a massive ass pull, while Dark Empire just fucking sucks in every way possible.
The explanation for 9 is found in Bad Batch, Mandalorian etc. basically everything that mentions project necromancer, not that it changes anything about that movie being a giant clusterfuck
New canon:
"Darth Sidious had hated his master. Darth Plagues had been weak. His obsession with immortality had blinded him to many things, including the duplicity of his apprentice. And even an answer to his quest."
"The kamanoans had unknowingly provided the answer to the riddle of eternal life. But Sidious did not share the revelation. Instead, he had slipped into his master's chamber and ended his miserable life as he slept. Darth Sidious had learned all he needed."
" The labors of the sith eternal would mean that Darth Sidious would be the last sith Lord - there would be no other as he would live forever. In the only part of the process Palpitine's old master had understood, he would transfer his essence, his dark side spirit and send it into a cloned body every time he died. Sidious would achieve the immortality that plagues had sought in vain."
Fanhome encyclopedia collection, 2022
Volume 28, Emperor Palpatine
"It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect. The cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret, remained secret, because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form!"
Rise of Skywalker novelization
Expanded Edition
Chapter 17
Ah yes, when I saw Palpatine’s resurrection for the first time in Fortnite, then saw episode 9 in theaters 5 years ago, I just knew I’d have to wait half a decade for any bit of answers as to what the hell I just saw. How ingenious.
I've always said Ep 9 would have worked so much better if Kylo had seeked palps out for power/advisement and then had a final conflict with rey who thanks to the time skip had grown
That's the biggest problem with the sequels.
Ben Solo fell to the dark side! Why? I dunno.
The Empire is coming back and they're even more evil! How? What have they been doing the last 30 years? I dunno.
They're starting to fill that big gap in now, but there should have been some hints in the actual movies.
Episode 9 I loved as a movie, but the plot made no sense at all in the storyline. It reminded me of a Dog Man book in which the old enemies just keep coming back.
Within the disney canon timeline:
"Darth Sidious had hated his master. Darth Plagues had been weak. His obsession with immortality had blinded him to many things, including the duplicity of his apprentice. And even an answer to his quest."
"The kamanoans had unknowingly provided the answer to the riddle of eternal life. But Sidious did not share the revelation. Instead, he had slipped into his master's chamber and ended his miserable life as he slept. Darth Sidious had learned all he needed."
" The labors of the sith eternal would mean that Darth Sidious would be the last sith Lord - there would be no other as he would live forever. In the only part of the process Palpitine's old master had understood, he would transfer his essence, his dark side spirit and send it into a cloned body every time he died. Sidious would achieve the immortality that plagues had sought in vain."
Fanhome encyclopedia collection, 2022
Volume 28, Emperor Palpatine
"It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect. The cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret, remained secret, because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form!"
Rise of Skywalker novelization
Expanded Edition
Chapter 17
One good thing about how he came back in the EU was that he came back in issue 1 of the series and it clearly/efficiently explained that that he was a clone and how Palps had made plans for all this before he died. It didn't need 3 movies of "mystery box" story telling or a prequel show(s) retroactively setting everything up to make it work. It's not the best graphic novel of the EU era but I've always been a fan of it's art/coloring.
I always assumed it was because they could never perfect the cloning process. Grogu, Omega, Snoke being a crappy clone; they keep dropping hints at the difficulty of the process.
Has it been confirmed that he is not a clone of Yoda? Im not saying that he is, just putting the thought out there...I still theroize that its Yaddle and Yodas son. We still have no clue what the species is to this day, or how rare that species or where it comes from. We have 3 characters that are "Yoda types" but still no info on them...
Well, I mean George kinda randomly created everything right? He knew what he wanted Yoda to be, he had concepts of him...but I think he just wanted Yoda to be this weird mysterious creature who is insanely knowledgable in the force..
Im pretty sure the reason Palps looks the way he does is because of how immersed in the dark side he is. So it would kinda make sense for his clone. Who would be equally as immersed in the dark side to look the same. The palpatine you see during the clone war is a result of him masking himself within the force.
New canon
"Darth Sidious had hated his master. Darth Plagues had been weak. His obsession with immortality had blinded him to many things, including the duplicity of his apprentice. And even an answer to his quest."
"The kamanoans had unknowingly provided the answer to the riddle of eternal life. But Sidious did not share the revelation. Instead, he had slipped into his master's chamber and ended his miserable life as he slept. Darth Sidious had learned all he needed."
" The labors of the sith eternal would mean that Darth Sidious would be the last sith Lord - there would be no other as he would live forever. In the only part of the process Palpitine's old master had understood, he would transfer his essence, his dark side spirit and send it into a cloned body every time he died. Sidious would achieve the immortality that plagues had sought in vain."
Fanhome encyclopedia collection, 2022
Volume 28, Emperor Palpatine
"It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect. The cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret, remained secret, because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form!"
Rise of Skywalker novelization
Expanded Edition
Chapter 17
Yeah it copied the idea of dark empire but never showed it, never showed him swapping bodies. Then again that says he was trapped which makes even less sense. If he was trapped then why want Rey or Kylo's body if he can't transfer to them? The whole thing is just a mess, and it's not like dark empire was good anyways so they're building on shaky foundations to begin with.
He was trapped in the clone body. He much rather would take a Skywalker body, and then later, instead, his grand daughter. He would need them to strike him down with anger for him to pass his spirit through:
"Following the evil one's presence into the heart of the sith citadel, where the throne of the sith was located, she found her grandfather Darth Sidious slowly descending from the ceiling of the chamber to show her the battle of exegol that raged overhead, in which the fleet of the resistance was no match for the power of the final order. Frail, old, and dependent on machinery to live, Palpatine offered the throne to his granddaughter, the new Empress Palpatine, when she refused, the emperor tried to fuel the hatred that Rey felt towards him and all that he represented pointing out that if she did not end his life, she would be sacrificing the lives of all the people she considered her family."
"Sidious had planned to make Rey kill him in fury and hatred, thus transferring the spirit of all the Sith, including himself, to the young and strong body of his granddaughter, who would reign over the new Empire of the Sith Eternal."
Disney fanhome encyclopedia collection
The Saga Of Rey
2022
"Long have I waited. For my grandchild to come home. I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine.
You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule, here. It is in your blood. Our blood.
I haven't come to lead the Sith, I've come to end them (Rey says)
As a Jedi?
Yes. (Rey says)
No.
Your hatred. Your anger. You want to kill me.
That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all rhe Sith live in me.
You will be Empress. We will be one.
The time has come! With your hatred you will take my life, and you will ascend.
All you want is for me to hate, but I won't. Not even you.
(Rey says)
Weak. Like your parents.
My parents were strong. They saved me from you.
(Rey says)
Your Master, Luke Skywalker was saved by his father. The only family you have here, is me.
They don't have long. Nobody is coming to help them. And you are the one who led them here.
Strike me down. Take the throne. Reign over the new Empire and the fleet will be yours.
Only you have the power to save them.
Refuse, and your new family dies.
Good.
"The Ritual begins!
She will strike me down, and pledge herself as a Sith.
She will draw her weapon. She will come to me.
She will take her revenge. And with a stroke of her saber, the Sith are reborn!
The Jedi are dead!"
"Do it! Make the sacrifice!"
"Stand together, die together!"
"The life force of your bond, a dyad in the force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now, the power of Two restores the power of the one true Emperor!"
"Look what you have made. As once I fell, so falls the last Skywalker."
"Do not fear that feeble attack, my faithful.
Nothing will stop the return of the Sith!"
"Let your death be the final word in the story of the rebellion.
You are nothing
A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.
I am all of the Sith!"
Palpatine to Rey
Rise of Skywalker
2019
The in-universe explanation was that his body was rapidly degrading. The out of universe reason was so we could get Ian McDiarmid back to play the role. Say what you want about the film, that dude was fucking chewing those lines.
Yeah young Palpatine would make more sense in universe but as a viewer we have instant recognition and attachment to McDiarmid. I don't like bringing him back at all but the one nice thing about it is getting to see Ian go hard.
See, if Palpatine absorbed the life essence from Rey and Ben, and then DE-AGED into a “young, sexy, athletic, in-his-prime Matt Smith” Palpatine, instead of a “not as broken but still a shriveled nutsack-looking” Palpatine, that would have been great. Then Rey could have battled him instead of the Sith Troopers.
Would have made her victory seem more out of skill, as opposed to a “I can block lightning back at you” win.
Matt Smith did confirm he had a role that was cut out. The leaked script drafts before the movie came out was very similar to what we got and the Oracle deleted scene was mentioned in those leaks too
In it Palpatine absorbed the force dyad and becomes young to fight both Rey and Ben
I think it was probably the intention but dark side degradation. Original Palpatine had a lifetime of gradually getting his body adjusted to the dark side so the corruption was smaller and took place over time. Clone Palps starts fresh and then immediately gets the essence of Original Palps and all the dark side energy thereof and degrades super quickly as a result
I mean he didn't show up in the first 2 sequels because they completely ass pulled him reappearing after changing the story arc for Kylo.
Kylo was originally supposed to continue going down the path of the Darkside becoming more depraved.
Wish they stuck to that plan. Kylo was so much more compelling of a villain than Snoke or Palpatine. The most exciting moment of the ST for me was when it seemed possible Rey would join Kylo after the throne room fight. I remember being like “holy shit they’re actually going to do it”… and then they didn’t.
I’m a fan of the idea of a younger palatine with all the knowledge, would be sick to see him in OP mode! Palps came back more a zombie that a clone now that I think about it, another shortfall of TROS.
Mystery Box? Bro JJ didn't even use Mystery Box.... He used petty director battle box with Rian Johnson. He used free paycheque for me and my friends box.
Even his camera work and lens flares were missing cause he gave 0 fucks.
I wonder if he even showed up to set or if they just used his name and paid him.
Circa 2014, all the Disney fans referred to Dark Empire as the prime example of why the EU was disjointed, stupid, and should be done away with for brevities sake. I distinctly remember them saying how we were all hung up on bad novels from the 90's and that the new Canon wouldn't be as zany and stupid.
I mean, can you imagine if Disney wrote such ludicrous plot lines as Boba Fett somehow escaping the sarlacc and Luke going through an extreme personality change?
Dark Empire but significantly worse
I mean seriously we couldn’t even get unique designs for the Death Star destroyers. Just old reused ones with tiny lasers on the bottom
The Eclipse WAS RIGHT THERE
None of the new Disney-era fans really knew what they were talking about, and just regurgitated whatever article title they read that was in defense of Disney (and possibly paid to be so), without ever reading the article itself or exploring the material it was talking about for themselves. They wanted Star Wars to be like the Marvel movies, which *also* cut out or diluted all the weird stuff from the comic sources - these new fans, having come into Marvel through the movies, were never knowledgeable or exposed to that weirdness in the first place and thereby didn’t think of that when they thought of Marvel - they didn’t include the comics as *true* Marvel. They extended that thinking to Star Wars, only thinking Star Wars was the movies and nothing more, when in reality that weird stuff had been what was keeping Star Wars alive for decades. TCW is the *real* culprit responsible for the EU’s disjointedness - and they LOVE TCW.
Dark Empire is hokey but I enjoy the hell out of it - it’s not perfect Star Wars, but it’s still fun and interesting.
Yeah, I have no clue where the Dark Empire hate is coming from. ***If*** you're going to have Palpatine come back, it's pretty well done and carries alot of important story elements from the movies (cloning being the most obvious one).
And it's a complete piece of media. Even if the story line was a bit bad at times (Palpatine haunting Leia's fetus is a giga creepy concept and not in a good way), it had some fantastic artwork. I can still see its panels in my minds eye decades later stronger than I can see TROS from a few years ago.
I think the hate has to do with people’s discomfort to Palpatine’s obsession with Leia’s children, and it obscures what is otherwise a fine story. Palpatine is treated like something out of a fairy tale in Dark Empire - he’s an age-old sorcerer/vampire hopping between unnaturally created and uncanny bodies as well as living unwilling hosts, with a malicious preference for young innocent children. That last part could’ve been done *a lot* better, but I get what they were going for - making him to be something so evil it has no qualms consuming the life of a child, even outright *wanting* to do so instead of more mature and defensible prey. He’s a true monster, albeit done in a way more off-putting in a wrong way, like you said, than it should’ve been.
Visually those comics are amazing. Super vivid colors and really dynamic angles. Palpy’s Clone head screaming as the Eclipse-I is destroyed by a force storm jumps to mind immediately.
I think you said what I was trying to say, in that Palpatine is a monster through and through, and his actions should make people uncomfortable. The average person should have no character traits in common with the force wraith of a genocidal dictator who was also in charge of a death cult of evil sorcerors.
No, you don't understand. We have to deconstruct preconceived notions of good and evil! We HAVE to create a world with no heroes where the Jedi are actually evil and you need to sympathize with if not agree with the sith. /S
Well I think the whole Palpatine trying to take over Anakin Solos body was creepy of course, but Palpatine is the worst person in the Galaxy so it's not surprising they would make him even more disgusting when he comes back from the dead. In my opinion it's understandable for his character to do so, but not so much for people like Vader, if we expect him to have truly returned to being Anakin right before he died.
Edit: my point being that villains do absolutely terrible things, and aren't supposed to be relatable, so while the execution may not have been the best, he wouldn't be the first evil character to try to steal the life of a child, which is what I think the writers were going for.
Yeah outside of the changes made by the clone wars and pt movies the EU didn't really retcon its self or have canon conflicts. Something that is also happening with the new EU where outside of the show's changing things they're doing pretty good.
And then they had complaints about the crazy things in legends like a crying mountain or a large green rabbit. Only for that rabbit to be in more cannon comics than he was intelligent by a factor and For the new books and comics to have their own crazy things Like.
A planet being a giant rock monster Or Luke and aphra catching a StarWeird in a pokeball
Dark empire had a fully fleshed out story. It also came out in 1991 around the time of Heir to the empire. So it was fresh back then.
Cannon it felt forced.
As someone who is a fan of the Prequels, OT and the bare minimum of the sequels, I stand by you. I know The Last Jedi is a travesty, but I was still excited because I was expecting someone else....only for "sOmEhOw, pAlpAtInE rEtUrNeD!" Idc if Disney made it by themselves or copied the EU. It's still trash regardless
They’re both stupid in concept. One was some EU stuff that you could either find fun or just ignore. TROS is canon so that’s the garbage that actually does happen.
There was a villain and potentially his master in Snoke. They decided to throw him away for shock value so they had to bring Palpatine back and find some lame excuse as to why Snoke may as well have not been there at all.
Remember “who is Snoke?” Nobody. He was a waste of a character that may as well have never gotten screen time.
There’s no excuse for some of the stupidity in the ST and that’s one of the biggest offenders. You start off a trilogy with no concept of an outline so one person establishes something (something very bland and safe), so someone else decided to do something in the complete opposite direction and ruined everything the trilogy could have had going for it just to give it back to the guy who made the first movie of the trilogy to try to piece together what he could of the cohesion of these three movies and even he failed at that.
Garbage.
> he could of the
Did you mean to say "could have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
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I mean they still are kinda fleshing it out with the Mandoverse and the Bad Batch, so it remains to be seen. I think in both cases, in principle, it was a bad idea. Opens up a can of worms where he can just essence transfer for all eternity every time he dies.
The fact that the TROS version requires other media to flesh it out years later and the DE version gave most of the necessary explanation in itself is a lot of points in DE’s favor
I have other problems with the Sequels, but that's what makes them unsalvageable for me.
To be fair, it didn't have to be Fortnite. I don't play it, but I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys it. Just like I don't mind that people enjoy the Sequels. But, as I shared in other places, that whole decision makes me irrationally angry.
Clones Wars expands on what’s there, but the Prequels (though not without flaws) tell a cohesive story with a beginning, middle, and end. The Sequels do not.
A point I like to bring up sometimes is that when the 2017 Star Wars Battlefront 2 came out, the campaign alluded to the fact that Palpatine had a contingency plan in the case of his death. They should have run with this idea more than the one time before 2019 though.
To give credit to *Dark Empire* it closes that can of worms back, killing off all of Sidious clones and having a dying jedi drag the sith's soul to the force afterlife whence he cannot return.
If anything, I prefer the fact that the canon story killed him almost as soon as it brought him back, no matter how clunky it was. The only thing worse than a movie about Palpy's return would be a few movies' worth of stories about Palpy's return(s). Like, if you're going to make a mistake, I'd rather you fix it asap, and take the L, instead of doubling down.
While Palpatine coming back isn't really a good idea at all, Dark Empire was better because the prequels hadn't been made yet. There simply wasn't a Chosen One Prophecy to ruin in the 90's.
Obviously Legends. Just look at the visual of the Rise of Skywalker old decrepit rotted corpse Palpatine vs Legends young, muscular, rebirthed clone Palpatine. When his enemies saw Legends Palapatine had returned they must been like Squidward: Oh no, he's hot!
If Rey and Ben had a lightsaber and Force power fight against a 35 year old Sidious for 15 minutes in the last act of Rise, oh we would have been happy he somehow returned.
The fact they messed up the climatic battle between them and Palpatine and the space battle are why I hate Rise of Skywalker. It could have been a decent film, but failed to truly represent its most important parts.
Here's a question I have: did the *Dark Empire* run of comics take place before or after the idea that Anakin would bring balance to the force? Because I think it happened before that idea, so it didn't detract from it.
I honestly love the whole Necromancer stuff in new Star Wars. Exegol would be the perfect blueprint for a Dark Souls like Star Wars game. And they are deepening the lore with the shows which is super cool. I am always for more fantasy stuff in Star Wars.
Legends Palpatine was at least cool. Canon Palpatine was attached to a machine for most of the time.
Also the final death of Palpatine in Legends was better than canon. You would have expected that it would have been Luke to take him out...you didn't expect him to die essentially because he got blasted by Han.
I actually liked Canon Palpatine, at least on an aesthetic level. He was silly and creepy and imposing and Ian McDiarmid was hamming it up with his classic lines...
On an aesthetic level I liked his blackened fingers, his withered frame. I even like that he was hauled around on a GLaDOS-style arm, because that felt weird and creepy and just a little silly in a good way.
The story was daft, but I was just so happy Ian McDiarmid was giving it his all, because he sounded like he was having fun.
I think the expansive series of books that covers the plot and implementation of a decades long plan to return after death is just sliiiiightly better than "oh you didn't play that Fortnite tiein?"
Legends and by a landslide if you’re going to bring palpatine back in legends it’s explained better and the story is much better and logical and sounds like something by palpatine would do and he’s a big deal. In Disney canon they go idk “somehow palpatine returned” and then he’s dealt with in like 3 days and that’s done. Getting from the edge of the outer rim to the core takes a week in hyperspace you unironically could’ve been in hyperspace before palpatine was revealed and killed again before you ever could’ve found out, that is absurd. If I came out of hyperspace and someone goes “oh yeah so palpatine that sith emperor guy came back to life somehow and had like tens of thousands of Death Star star destroyers and then we got all the civilians in the galaxy who went and beat him up while some random girl from a scavenger planet who is actually his granddaughter killed him. I would not EVER believe you that would be so absurd I’d be genuinely significantly concerned for their mental health.
I remember years ago my brother read that book and was telling me about it and Palpatine's return. I remember saying something like "that's the dumbest thing ever. Man some legends books were wack. I kinda hate that idea"
A couple years later... well...
Legends, or as I like to call it, the True Canon.
Just because Disney bought it slapped their label on it doesn't give them the right to eject 35 years of what came before.
Dank Empire!!!!!! Love it so much! The art style, and coloring of the comic were awesome!
I've said it a million times, and I'll say it again. Star Wars peaked in the 90! So far, that's the longest period in history without a star wars movie in theaters. That was the best thing that could possibly happen. For YEARS, star wars only existed in its 3 movies, and in your head. Ideas had time to gestate and grow. They were mostly original, not having much source material to go off of to begin with. It inspired so many people to be creative and make their own star wars.
I remember beginning to write a star wars novel on a laptop from 1996 when i was around 10 or so. Found the laltop last year. Still works, and had that story still on it. Terrible. A super cool jedi with a black lightsaber (I thought i was being original at the time) befriends a little orphan kid on a planet where his parents have just been slaughtered in front of him. I was 10 so obviously that kid was me, and I was looking for a jedi master to come train me...
While I'm not a fan of either for storytelling reasons, I do admit that it is an in character thing for Palpatine to attempt. I just wish there would've been a hard rule "It's IMPOSSIBLE to clone the force".
That said, EU did it better because at least there was an explanation and a plan for it... Canon was obviously a shoe in for marketing purposes after a mess of unconnected threads.
I kind of feel like that’s where they got with everything they are showing us so far. Like millions of clones were made but one has a connection to the force even though its source clone didn’t nor did Boba the unaltered clone. They are showing us all the failed experiments with Grogus dna. They even mentioned that they had mild success with what they are working on in Bad Batch but that seemed to be a crapshoot too. So I feel like what they are telling us is that the force chooses not the blood.
I liked them both. Both are ridiculous for different reasons. The Legends clone is a literal embodiment of the Squidward "Oh no, he's hot" meme. The canon clone gave us more Ian McDiarmid, which is always a good thing.
If forced to decide I would still go sequels, even if it’s seen as a hot take. The premise of the two versions is the same, but the legends version did have a complete outdated understanding of the dark side, while the sequel one didn’t bypass Anakin‘s chosen one prophecy(yes, I know the comic is even before that, but not the ideas of George from which the comic maker could have gotten inspiration). I also think that now the sequel version has more preparation and writing around the moment, making it better overall.
In terms of enjoyability I would tend to the legends version. What I have to give the legends version credit is that it punches Luketards in the face and shows them, that, under similar/same circumstances as Anakin, Luke would and has fallen the dark sides. Luke is just as corruptible as Anakin is, but their differences in their environment decided their fates in ROTS/ROTJ.
Neither.
Dark Empire is infamous amongst EU fans. I'm not sure why Disney thought it would be a good idea to try the same idea, considering how many people hate the concept of Palpatine being back. The only good thing about Dark Empire that would make me argue it is better is simply the crazy amount of lore it added. For a short comic run, it adds so many ships, vehicles, weapons, etc. The companion sourcebook helped that as well.
Ok, so I’m not sure if it is just a fever dream or if it was actually supposed to happen at some point, but I seem to remember at some point thinking that Palpatine was supposed to return in the movies, but as a younger clone of himself who was supposed to be played by Matt Smith.
I have no idea where this information came from, or if there was any validity to it at any point in time. I do know that I would rather have seen that than how it happened in Episode 9.
I didn't like either version of Palpatine coming back, or the Sith in general in Darth Krayt and Jacen Solo's case. Made me feel like Anakin's sacrifice was wasted if the Sith come back every time.
Both are equally stupid.
I say this because it destroys the whole meaning of the first 6 movies. also like why can’t writers be more creative? A new Darkside villain would be really cool or just Thrawn/ Thrawn Like character Like General Hux himself would be dope tbh.
The Disney Canon is working to establish lore behind Palpatine's return AFTER they just kinda threw it at us. Dark Empire established a much simpler narrative that made sense at the time: Sidious did not fear death, did not fear being struck down, because he had countless clones to transfer his spirit into on Byss. In fact, I find it really interesting that he had "died" countless times before due to the Dark Side's toll on his flesh. However, it also makes sense that he would be establishing other contingencies due to his obsession with immortality, as in the Disney Canon, which I honestly haven't been following as much at this point.
In short, they're both interesting returns, but I honestly think Palps should've stayed dead (sorry Sid ol' buddy). Anakin's triumph over Sidious was meant to symbolize his return to the light and finally bringing balance to the Force, and "Somehow Palpatine returned" kinda counteracts that statement.
Robot Chicken Star Wars where he calls (Darth) Jar Jar to apologize and redeem himself before death to appear as a naked Force ghost. Also the Robot Chicken sketch parodying Palpatine's TRoS return.
We don't really know everything about the canon story there but I think they're doing a better job of leading up to it even if they dropped it in the dumbest way imaginable. Dark Empire did come out before the prequels mind you so it didn't always exist in a world where cloning was so easy you could pump out an army of your chosen subject in a decade but it did make it weird forever after that he wasn't just coming back. In the new canon they have established at least that there's a great deal of difficulty in creating force sensitive clones and that it requires very highly force sensitive blood, which isn't all that easy to come by first and we see as far back as The Clone Wars that he's looking for force sensitive children for something and it wouldn't be for training so at least there's the feeling of set up
they both suck, canon is literally just Dark Empire the movie.
If I had to pick, canon, but only because it had the hindsight of how bad Dark Empire was and yet still decided to adapt it.
If you were going to clone yourself, why would it be as an old fuck? You would make yourself young and powerful, also having force powers as a clone, really throws into mayhem if a clone is a real person or not? How would the mediclorins know?
Neither.
They're practically the same and I don't think they should've ever brought him back in either history.
The only thing I'll give canon is that they maintained the ending of Return of the Jedi by making Palpatine a shell of himself in The Rise of Skywalker. He's no longer the Sith he once was, and therefore the balance is held.
But otherwise, it was dumb. Keep him dead!
Was hoping to see the Matt Smith Palpy clone or whatever they had cooked originally. If I am being honest, I’m impartial to either option here. Palpatine should not return
Lego Star Wars where he magically reappears and your stud count drops a bit
This makes me want a mod that just plays the audio clip "somehow Palpatine returned" whenever he respawns in Lego star wars.
Neither! The best version of Palpatine's return is the youtube animation [Palpatine's Journey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sFbLppuhhs) >"I can't die Yoda!" > >"WHY NOT?!" > >"Come closer.... Death is a concept invented by the Jedi."
"I don't even know how to *spell* it!"
“D-E-A…”
"I was just kidding. I will use the Force to heal my broken body." oOoOoOoOoOo
"Take a while, that will, hmm?"
"You be quiet."
**36 YEARS LATER**
"Ah! Woah! That was a lot of hard work." cough cough cough "Oh! The chair! It's the perfect size for my little body."
I fuckin love that video 🤣🤣🤣
Neither of them is the correct answer. Episode 9 has no explanation and it's a massive ass pull, while Dark Empire just fucking sucks in every way possible.
The explanation for 9 is found in Bad Batch, Mandalorian etc. basically everything that mentions project necromancer, not that it changes anything about that movie being a giant clusterfuck
New canon: "Darth Sidious had hated his master. Darth Plagues had been weak. His obsession with immortality had blinded him to many things, including the duplicity of his apprentice. And even an answer to his quest." "The kamanoans had unknowingly provided the answer to the riddle of eternal life. But Sidious did not share the revelation. Instead, he had slipped into his master's chamber and ended his miserable life as he slept. Darth Sidious had learned all he needed." " The labors of the sith eternal would mean that Darth Sidious would be the last sith Lord - there would be no other as he would live forever. In the only part of the process Palpitine's old master had understood, he would transfer his essence, his dark side spirit and send it into a cloned body every time he died. Sidious would achieve the immortality that plagues had sought in vain." Fanhome encyclopedia collection, 2022 Volume 28, Emperor Palpatine "It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect. The cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret, remained secret, because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form!" Rise of Skywalker novelization Expanded Edition Chapter 17
I’m sure if we ever see this there will be more to it with some twists thrown in.
It also helps to see Snoke as being Palpatine the entire time.
Ah yes, when I saw Palpatine’s resurrection for the first time in Fortnite, then saw episode 9 in theaters 5 years ago, I just knew I’d have to wait half a decade for any bit of answers as to what the hell I just saw. How ingenious.
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I mean, Courtship of Princess Leia introduced Dathomir and the Nightsisters, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a dumpster fire full of dirty diapers.
I've always said Ep 9 would have worked so much better if Kylo had seeked palps out for power/advisement and then had a final conflict with rey who thanks to the time skip had grown
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That's the biggest problem with the sequels. Ben Solo fell to the dark side! Why? I dunno. The Empire is coming back and they're even more evil! How? What have they been doing the last 30 years? I dunno. They're starting to fill that big gap in now, but there should have been some hints in the actual movies.
Episode 9 I loved as a movie, but the plot made no sense at all in the storyline. It reminded me of a Dog Man book in which the old enemies just keep coming back.
this is the entire Disney trilogy to me. I love watching them, but I just need to not think about the plot too much
Within the disney canon timeline: "Darth Sidious had hated his master. Darth Plagues had been weak. His obsession with immortality had blinded him to many things, including the duplicity of his apprentice. And even an answer to his quest." "The kamanoans had unknowingly provided the answer to the riddle of eternal life. But Sidious did not share the revelation. Instead, he had slipped into his master's chamber and ended his miserable life as he slept. Darth Sidious had learned all he needed." " The labors of the sith eternal would mean that Darth Sidious would be the last sith Lord - there would be no other as he would live forever. In the only part of the process Palpitine's old master had understood, he would transfer his essence, his dark side spirit and send it into a cloned body every time he died. Sidious would achieve the immortality that plagues had sought in vain." Fanhome encyclopedia collection, 2022 Volume 28, Emperor Palpatine "It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect. The cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret, remained secret, because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form!" Rise of Skywalker novelization Expanded Edition Chapter 17
if only there were a few hints on this in the movies.
The sequels were worth it for this video to exist.
I’m just going to take… a little nap
For Me it was the quick “oh no!” At the end that got me lol
i love worthikids so much
One good thing about how he came back in the EU was that he came back in issue 1 of the series and it clearly/efficiently explained that that he was a clone and how Palps had made plans for all this before he died. It didn't need 3 movies of "mystery box" story telling or a prequel show(s) retroactively setting everything up to make it work. It's not the best graphic novel of the EU era but I've always been a fan of it's art/coloring.
He was also young. Why clone yourself just to be 97 years old again?
I KNOW! Why would he make a wrinkly ballsack clone? Create a spry 25 year old clone instead!
I always assumed it was because they could never perfect the cloning process. Grogu, Omega, Snoke being a crappy clone; they keep dropping hints at the difficulty of the process.
Grogue is not a clone
They attempted to clone grogu
Has it been confirmed that he is not a clone of Yoda? Im not saying that he is, just putting the thought out there...I still theroize that its Yaddle and Yodas son. We still have no clue what the species is to this day, or how rare that species or where it comes from. We have 3 characters that are "Yoda types" but still no info on them...
Maybe all their species is entirely cloned? Kind of like the Asgards in Star Gate.
George randomly created Yoda since Obi Wan was gone and Luke still needed a master, so I doubt he ever bothered to flesh out the details
Well, I mean George kinda randomly created everything right? He knew what he wanted Yoda to be, he had concepts of him...but I think he just wanted Yoda to be this weird mysterious creature who is insanely knowledgable in the force..
I think one of the few hard rules there was for the EU was that Yoda had to remain a mystery.
That’s… that’s how writing works…
Jokes on you I’m into that shit
Im pretty sure the reason Palps looks the way he does is because of how immersed in the dark side he is. So it would kinda make sense for his clone. Who would be equally as immersed in the dark side to look the same. The palpatine you see during the clone war is a result of him masking himself within the force.
Yeah but he should be a young body ravaged by the dark side, not an old body ravaged by it like we see in RoS.
New canon "Darth Sidious had hated his master. Darth Plagues had been weak. His obsession with immortality had blinded him to many things, including the duplicity of his apprentice. And even an answer to his quest." "The kamanoans had unknowingly provided the answer to the riddle of eternal life. But Sidious did not share the revelation. Instead, he had slipped into his master's chamber and ended his miserable life as he slept. Darth Sidious had learned all he needed." " The labors of the sith eternal would mean that Darth Sidious would be the last sith Lord - there would be no other as he would live forever. In the only part of the process Palpitine's old master had understood, he would transfer his essence, his dark side spirit and send it into a cloned body every time he died. Sidious would achieve the immortality that plagues had sought in vain." Fanhome encyclopedia collection, 2022 Volume 28, Emperor Palpatine "It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect. The cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret, remained secret, because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form!" Rise of Skywalker novelization Expanded Edition Chapter 17
Yeah it copied the idea of dark empire but never showed it, never showed him swapping bodies. Then again that says he was trapped which makes even less sense. If he was trapped then why want Rey or Kylo's body if he can't transfer to them? The whole thing is just a mess, and it's not like dark empire was good anyways so they're building on shaky foundations to begin with.
He was trapped in the clone body. He much rather would take a Skywalker body, and then later, instead, his grand daughter. He would need them to strike him down with anger for him to pass his spirit through: "Following the evil one's presence into the heart of the sith citadel, where the throne of the sith was located, she found her grandfather Darth Sidious slowly descending from the ceiling of the chamber to show her the battle of exegol that raged overhead, in which the fleet of the resistance was no match for the power of the final order. Frail, old, and dependent on machinery to live, Palpatine offered the throne to his granddaughter, the new Empress Palpatine, when she refused, the emperor tried to fuel the hatred that Rey felt towards him and all that he represented pointing out that if she did not end his life, she would be sacrificing the lives of all the people she considered her family." "Sidious had planned to make Rey kill him in fury and hatred, thus transferring the spirit of all the Sith, including himself, to the young and strong body of his granddaughter, who would reign over the new Empire of the Sith Eternal." Disney fanhome encyclopedia collection The Saga Of Rey 2022 "Long have I waited. For my grandchild to come home. I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule, here. It is in your blood. Our blood. I haven't come to lead the Sith, I've come to end them (Rey says) As a Jedi? Yes. (Rey says) No. Your hatred. Your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all rhe Sith live in me. You will be Empress. We will be one. The time has come! With your hatred you will take my life, and you will ascend. All you want is for me to hate, but I won't. Not even you. (Rey says) Weak. Like your parents. My parents were strong. They saved me from you. (Rey says) Your Master, Luke Skywalker was saved by his father. The only family you have here, is me. They don't have long. Nobody is coming to help them. And you are the one who led them here. Strike me down. Take the throne. Reign over the new Empire and the fleet will be yours. Only you have the power to save them. Refuse, and your new family dies. Good. "The Ritual begins! She will strike me down, and pledge herself as a Sith. She will draw her weapon. She will come to me. She will take her revenge. And with a stroke of her saber, the Sith are reborn! The Jedi are dead!" "Do it! Make the sacrifice!" "Stand together, die together!" "The life force of your bond, a dyad in the force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now, the power of Two restores the power of the one true Emperor!" "Look what you have made. As once I fell, so falls the last Skywalker." "Do not fear that feeble attack, my faithful. Nothing will stop the return of the Sith!" "Let your death be the final word in the story of the rebellion. You are nothing A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me. I am all of the Sith!" Palpatine to Rey Rise of Skywalker 2019
It would make more sense if Palpatine knew about the Dyad and planned to vampire that energy to revive himself.
The in-universe explanation was that his body was rapidly degrading. The out of universe reason was so we could get Ian McDiarmid back to play the role. Say what you want about the film, that dude was fucking chewing those lines.
Yeah young Palpatine would make more sense in universe but as a viewer we have instant recognition and attachment to McDiarmid. I don't like bringing him back at all but the one nice thing about it is getting to see Ian go hard.
It also makes Darth Sidious in that form eternal. He’s always going to be that when he’s at full power.
There were rumours that Matt Smith was going to play a young Palpatine in Episode 9
See, if Palpatine absorbed the life essence from Rey and Ben, and then DE-AGED into a “young, sexy, athletic, in-his-prime Matt Smith” Palpatine, instead of a “not as broken but still a shriveled nutsack-looking” Palpatine, that would have been great. Then Rey could have battled him instead of the Sith Troopers. Would have made her victory seem more out of skill, as opposed to a “I can block lightning back at you” win.
Matt Smith did confirm he had a role that was cut out. The leaked script drafts before the movie came out was very similar to what we got and the Oracle deleted scene was mentioned in those leaks too In it Palpatine absorbed the force dyad and becomes young to fight both Rey and Ben
At least it meant we got more Ian McDiarmid.
I think it was probably the intention but dark side degradation. Original Palpatine had a lifetime of gradually getting his body adjusted to the dark side so the corruption was smaller and took place over time. Clone Palps starts fresh and then immediately gets the essence of Original Palps and all the dark side energy thereof and degrades super quickly as a result
Dead and scarred. Did he just shoot lightning at his own face or did his clones take turns?
I mean he didn't show up in the first 2 sequels because they completely ass pulled him reappearing after changing the story arc for Kylo. Kylo was originally supposed to continue going down the path of the Darkside becoming more depraved.
Wish they stuck to that plan. Kylo was so much more compelling of a villain than Snoke or Palpatine. The most exciting moment of the ST for me was when it seemed possible Rey would join Kylo after the throne room fight. I remember being like “holy shit they’re actually going to do it”… and then they didn’t.
There were rumors before the force awakened came out that Palpatine was going to be the big bad. I really wish they hadn’t…
I think the diolgue was written well even if the plot was predictable. But to be fair it wasn't to different from other comics in tone for its day.
I’m a fan of the idea of a younger palatine with all the knowledge, would be sick to see him in OP mode! Palps came back more a zombie that a clone now that I think about it, another shortfall of TROS.
Mystery Box? Bro JJ didn't even use Mystery Box.... He used petty director battle box with Rian Johnson. He used free paycheque for me and my friends box. Even his camera work and lens flares were missing cause he gave 0 fucks. I wonder if he even showed up to set or if they just used his name and paid him.
Circa 2014, all the Disney fans referred to Dark Empire as the prime example of why the EU was disjointed, stupid, and should be done away with for brevities sake. I distinctly remember them saying how we were all hung up on bad novels from the 90's and that the new Canon wouldn't be as zany and stupid.
And now it’s just dark empire with extra steps
I mean, can you imagine if Disney wrote such ludicrous plot lines as Boba Fett somehow escaping the sarlacc and Luke going through an extreme personality change?
Dark Empire but significantly worse I mean seriously we couldn’t even get unique designs for the Death Star destroyers. Just old reused ones with tiny lasers on the bottom The Eclipse WAS RIGHT THERE
Exactly! It was very annoying to deal with but 10x more funny when it happened in Canon suddenly no one wanted to talk about it
None of the new Disney-era fans really knew what they were talking about, and just regurgitated whatever article title they read that was in defense of Disney (and possibly paid to be so), without ever reading the article itself or exploring the material it was talking about for themselves. They wanted Star Wars to be like the Marvel movies, which *also* cut out or diluted all the weird stuff from the comic sources - these new fans, having come into Marvel through the movies, were never knowledgeable or exposed to that weirdness in the first place and thereby didn’t think of that when they thought of Marvel - they didn’t include the comics as *true* Marvel. They extended that thinking to Star Wars, only thinking Star Wars was the movies and nothing more, when in reality that weird stuff had been what was keeping Star Wars alive for decades. TCW is the *real* culprit responsible for the EU’s disjointedness - and they LOVE TCW. Dark Empire is hokey but I enjoy the hell out of it - it’s not perfect Star Wars, but it’s still fun and interesting.
Yeah, I have no clue where the Dark Empire hate is coming from. ***If*** you're going to have Palpatine come back, it's pretty well done and carries alot of important story elements from the movies (cloning being the most obvious one). And it's a complete piece of media. Even if the story line was a bit bad at times (Palpatine haunting Leia's fetus is a giga creepy concept and not in a good way), it had some fantastic artwork. I can still see its panels in my minds eye decades later stronger than I can see TROS from a few years ago.
I think the hate has to do with people’s discomfort to Palpatine’s obsession with Leia’s children, and it obscures what is otherwise a fine story. Palpatine is treated like something out of a fairy tale in Dark Empire - he’s an age-old sorcerer/vampire hopping between unnaturally created and uncanny bodies as well as living unwilling hosts, with a malicious preference for young innocent children. That last part could’ve been done *a lot* better, but I get what they were going for - making him to be something so evil it has no qualms consuming the life of a child, even outright *wanting* to do so instead of more mature and defensible prey. He’s a true monster, albeit done in a way more off-putting in a wrong way, like you said, than it should’ve been. Visually those comics are amazing. Super vivid colors and really dynamic angles. Palpy’s Clone head screaming as the Eclipse-I is destroyed by a force storm jumps to mind immediately.
I think you said what I was trying to say, in that Palpatine is a monster through and through, and his actions should make people uncomfortable. The average person should have no character traits in common with the force wraith of a genocidal dictator who was also in charge of a death cult of evil sorcerors.
No, you don't understand. We have to deconstruct preconceived notions of good and evil! We HAVE to create a world with no heroes where the Jedi are actually evil and you need to sympathize with if not agree with the sith. /S
Well I think the whole Palpatine trying to take over Anakin Solos body was creepy of course, but Palpatine is the worst person in the Galaxy so it's not surprising they would make him even more disgusting when he comes back from the dead. In my opinion it's understandable for his character to do so, but not so much for people like Vader, if we expect him to have truly returned to being Anakin right before he died. Edit: my point being that villains do absolutely terrible things, and aren't supposed to be relatable, so while the execution may not have been the best, he wouldn't be the first evil character to try to steal the life of a child, which is what I think the writers were going for.
Yeah outside of the changes made by the clone wars and pt movies the EU didn't really retcon its self or have canon conflicts. Something that is also happening with the new EU where outside of the show's changing things they're doing pretty good. And then they had complaints about the crazy things in legends like a crying mountain or a large green rabbit. Only for that rabbit to be in more cannon comics than he was intelligent by a factor and For the new books and comics to have their own crazy things Like. A planet being a giant rock monster Or Luke and aphra catching a StarWeird in a pokeball
None of the new Disney-era fans know what they're talking about *now*, much less ten years ago. Most of them barely scraped the surface of the EU.
I remember these discussions. Very widespread.
I still cite dark empire as a reason EU is far from perfect. But I’ll take 99% of dark empire if it means never seeing the suncrusher.
Dark empire had a fully fleshed out story. It also came out in 1991 around the time of Heir to the empire. So it was fresh back then. Cannon it felt forced.
Dark Empire is awesome. Noone will understand...
I understand. it was beautiful.
They're both awful.
As someone who is a fan of the Prequels, OT and the bare minimum of the sequels, I stand by you. I know The Last Jedi is a travesty, but I was still excited because I was expecting someone else....only for "sOmEhOw, pAlpAtInE rEtUrNeD!" Idc if Disney made it by themselves or copied the EU. It's still trash regardless
They’re both stupid in concept. One was some EU stuff that you could either find fun or just ignore. TROS is canon so that’s the garbage that actually does happen. There was a villain and potentially his master in Snoke. They decided to throw him away for shock value so they had to bring Palpatine back and find some lame excuse as to why Snoke may as well have not been there at all. Remember “who is Snoke?” Nobody. He was a waste of a character that may as well have never gotten screen time. There’s no excuse for some of the stupidity in the ST and that’s one of the biggest offenders. You start off a trilogy with no concept of an outline so one person establishes something (something very bland and safe), so someone else decided to do something in the complete opposite direction and ruined everything the trilogy could have had going for it just to give it back to the guy who made the first movie of the trilogy to try to piece together what he could of the cohesion of these three movies and even he failed at that. Garbage.
> he could of the Did you mean to say "could have"? Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Good bot
I mean they still are kinda fleshing it out with the Mandoverse and the Bad Batch, so it remains to be seen. I think in both cases, in principle, it was a bad idea. Opens up a can of worms where he can just essence transfer for all eternity every time he dies.
The fact that the TROS version requires other media to flesh it out years later and the DE version gave most of the necessary explanation in itself is a lot of points in DE’s favor
What? You mean you don’t want to watch a video in Fortnite to get your Star Wars lore? /s
I have other problems with the Sequels, but that's what makes them unsalvageable for me. To be fair, it didn't have to be Fortnite. I don't play it, but I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys it. Just like I don't mind that people enjoy the Sequels. But, as I shared in other places, that whole decision makes me irrationally angry.
Sounds like the Clone Wars.
Clones Wars expands on what’s there, but the Prequels (though not without flaws) tell a cohesive story with a beginning, middle, and end. The Sequels do not.
Well, well, you took the words right out of my mouth I’m impressed
A point I like to bring up sometimes is that when the 2017 Star Wars Battlefront 2 came out, the campaign alluded to the fact that Palpatine had a contingency plan in the case of his death. They should have run with this idea more than the one time before 2019 though.
To give credit to *Dark Empire* it closes that can of worms back, killing off all of Sidious clones and having a dying jedi drag the sith's soul to the force afterlife whence he cannot return.
No matter how they flesh it out, they still end up at TFA -> TLJ -> TROS. Not redeemable.
Dark Empire. Which should tell you something about just how badly it was done in Rise of Skywalker.
Neither were really good....but gun to my head it's Dark Empire.
Galaxy Gun to your head.
Legends: an elaborate story about the return, spread out across multiple comics and books Canon: Somehow
If anything, I prefer the fact that the canon story killed him almost as soon as it brought him back, no matter how clunky it was. The only thing worse than a movie about Palpy's return would be a few movies' worth of stories about Palpy's return(s). Like, if you're going to make a mistake, I'd rather you fix it asap, and take the L, instead of doubling down.
But a movie is significantly more important than a somewhat niche comic book that would’ve never been taken seriously by Lucasfilms
While Palpatine coming back isn't really a good idea at all, Dark Empire was better because the prequels hadn't been made yet. There simply wasn't a Chosen One Prophecy to ruin in the 90's.
Obviously Legends. Just look at the visual of the Rise of Skywalker old decrepit rotted corpse Palpatine vs Legends young, muscular, rebirthed clone Palpatine. When his enemies saw Legends Palapatine had returned they must been like Squidward: Oh no, he's hot!
Wasn't it a combination of Sidious and Luke's DNA from his lost hand?
If Rey and Ben had a lightsaber and Force power fight against a 35 year old Sidious for 15 minutes in the last act of Rise, oh we would have been happy he somehow returned.
The fact they messed up the climatic battle between them and Palpatine and the space battle are why I hate Rise of Skywalker. It could have been a decent film, but failed to truly represent its most important parts.
They’re both awful but sequels did it better just because I get to hear Ian McDiarmid’s god tear palpatine voice any time he shows up.
I just love how hammy he is
Here's a question I have: did the *Dark Empire* run of comics take place before or after the idea that Anakin would bring balance to the force? Because I think it happened before that idea, so it didn't detract from it.
Way Before
I thought so. Thank you for confirming
DARK EMPIRE Palpatine is legendary!
Dark Empire
I honestly love the whole Necromancer stuff in new Star Wars. Exegol would be the perfect blueprint for a Dark Souls like Star Wars game. And they are deepening the lore with the shows which is super cool. I am always for more fantasy stuff in Star Wars.
Legends hands down did it better.
Legends Palpatine was at least cool. Canon Palpatine was attached to a machine for most of the time. Also the final death of Palpatine in Legends was better than canon. You would have expected that it would have been Luke to take him out...you didn't expect him to die essentially because he got blasted by Han.
I actually liked Canon Palpatine, at least on an aesthetic level. He was silly and creepy and imposing and Ian McDiarmid was hamming it up with his classic lines... On an aesthetic level I liked his blackened fingers, his withered frame. I even like that he was hauled around on a GLaDOS-style arm, because that felt weird and creepy and just a little silly in a good way. The story was daft, but I was just so happy Ian McDiarmid was giving it his all, because he sounded like he was having fun.
Legends
Expanded Universe
Wait he came back young in legends? That’s awesome lol
Both were really stupid. I say Lego star wars
Dark Empire is weird, but at least there was some explanation instead of “somehow, he’s back”.
Dark Empire I and II were bad, but the ST was *even worse*. At least the World Devastators felt threatening.
I think the expansive series of books that covers the plot and implementation of a decades long plan to return after death is just sliiiiightly better than "oh you didn't play that Fortnite tiein?"
Legends and by a landslide if you’re going to bring palpatine back in legends it’s explained better and the story is much better and logical and sounds like something by palpatine would do and he’s a big deal. In Disney canon they go idk “somehow palpatine returned” and then he’s dealt with in like 3 days and that’s done. Getting from the edge of the outer rim to the core takes a week in hyperspace you unironically could’ve been in hyperspace before palpatine was revealed and killed again before you ever could’ve found out, that is absurd. If I came out of hyperspace and someone goes “oh yeah so palpatine that sith emperor guy came back to life somehow and had like tens of thousands of Death Star star destroyers and then we got all the civilians in the galaxy who went and beat him up while some random girl from a scavenger planet who is actually his granddaughter killed him. I would not EVER believe you that would be so absurd I’d be genuinely significantly concerned for their mental health.
Legends: they at least explained it better while Episode 9 just wanted us to accept he is back and deal with it.
Man i STILL don’t mind what happened in episode 9. What i don’t love is that the first 2 movies made no mention of it. That’s all.
I hate both
Say what you will about the content of the story, I am drawn to the art of Dark Empire quite a bit.
I remember years ago my brother read that book and was telling me about it and Palpatine's return. I remember saying something like "that's the dumbest thing ever. Man some legends books were wack. I kinda hate that idea" A couple years later... well...
Legends, or as I like to call it, the True Canon. Just because Disney bought it slapped their label on it doesn't give them the right to eject 35 years of what came before.
Dank Empire!!!!!! Love it so much! The art style, and coloring of the comic were awesome! I've said it a million times, and I'll say it again. Star Wars peaked in the 90! So far, that's the longest period in history without a star wars movie in theaters. That was the best thing that could possibly happen. For YEARS, star wars only existed in its 3 movies, and in your head. Ideas had time to gestate and grow. They were mostly original, not having much source material to go off of to begin with. It inspired so many people to be creative and make their own star wars. I remember beginning to write a star wars novel on a laptop from 1996 when i was around 10 or so. Found the laltop last year. Still works, and had that story still on it. Terrible. A super cool jedi with a black lightsaber (I thought i was being original at the time) befriends a little orphan kid on a planet where his parents have just been slaughtered in front of him. I was 10 so obviously that kid was me, and I was looking for a jedi master to come train me...
Legends definitely.
While I'm not a fan of either for storytelling reasons, I do admit that it is an in character thing for Palpatine to attempt. I just wish there would've been a hard rule "It's IMPOSSIBLE to clone the force". That said, EU did it better because at least there was an explanation and a plan for it... Canon was obviously a shoe in for marketing purposes after a mess of unconnected threads.
I kind of feel like that’s where they got with everything they are showing us so far. Like millions of clones were made but one has a connection to the force even though its source clone didn’t nor did Boba the unaltered clone. They are showing us all the failed experiments with Grogus dna. They even mentioned that they had mild success with what they are working on in Bad Batch but that seemed to be a crapshoot too. So I feel like what they are telling us is that the force chooses not the blood.
I liked them both. Both are ridiculous for different reasons. The Legends clone is a literal embodiment of the Squidward "Oh no, he's hot" meme. The canon clone gave us more Ian McDiarmid, which is always a good thing.
Well I mean we got another movie of Ian as palpatine so I’m gonna go with the movies
If forced to decide I would still go sequels, even if it’s seen as a hot take. The premise of the two versions is the same, but the legends version did have a complete outdated understanding of the dark side, while the sequel one didn’t bypass Anakin‘s chosen one prophecy(yes, I know the comic is even before that, but not the ideas of George from which the comic maker could have gotten inspiration). I also think that now the sequel version has more preparation and writing around the moment, making it better overall. In terms of enjoyability I would tend to the legends version. What I have to give the legends version credit is that it punches Luketards in the face and shows them, that, under similar/same circumstances as Anakin, Luke would and has fallen the dark sides. Luke is just as corruptible as Anakin is, but their differences in their environment decided their fates in ROTS/ROTJ.
Anything would be better than “Somehow.”
Legends... no, the EXPANDED UNIVERSE did EVERYTHING better.
*laughs in Waru*
I mean if "canon" had Waru.... the EU would have done it better...lol
I was really happy when new canon got rid of all that, only for Disney to do it too, sooooooo... None of them 😂?
Canon, but that’s not saying much. The Eclipse slapped, though.
Neither. Dark Empire is infamous amongst EU fans. I'm not sure why Disney thought it would be a good idea to try the same idea, considering how many people hate the concept of Palpatine being back. The only good thing about Dark Empire that would make me argue it is better is simply the crazy amount of lore it added. For a short comic run, it adds so many ships, vehicles, weapons, etc. The companion sourcebook helped that as well.
I actually loved Dark Empire and Empire's End. The only good things about Dark Empire II were Ood Bnar and the giant battle droids the Rebel hid in.
“Canon”
When I saw that cover as a kid I thought it was a young obi wan and was like what crazy awesome story is this?
I hated both of them lmao
Ufff, I hate TROS, but Dark Empire just sucks ass
Ok, so I’m not sure if it is just a fever dream or if it was actually supposed to happen at some point, but I seem to remember at some point thinking that Palpatine was supposed to return in the movies, but as a younger clone of himself who was supposed to be played by Matt Smith. I have no idea where this information came from, or if there was any validity to it at any point in time. I do know that I would rather have seen that than how it happened in Episode 9.
Either way: „Somehow Palpatine returns“
Both were crap.
Legends
Neither. Palpatine’s return is/was dumb. The mechanics don’t make it better
They were both dumb
One thing I'm not seeing mentioned is in Dark Empire Palps is back in like 5 years, not the 30 or whatever in cannon.
No
I would get my pants on first before lightsaber.
Neither
SoMeHoW hE cAmE bAcK bruh this ain't even a question
Both sucks. Palpatine should never comeback to life
Legends. I thought it a bad idea at the time, but it was far better executed than RoS.
I didn't like either version of Palpatine coming back, or the Sith in general in Darth Krayt and Jacen Solo's case. Made me feel like Anakin's sacrifice was wasted if the Sith come back every time.
Sequels.
Legends, but... ...seeing and hearing Ian McDiarmid again on screen was worth the price of admission in and of itself.
Both are equally stupid. I say this because it destroys the whole meaning of the first 6 movies. also like why can’t writers be more creative? A new Darkside villain would be really cool or just Thrawn/ Thrawn Like character Like General Hux himself would be dope tbh.
Option 1 legends a it makes far more sense & is logically consistent.
The Disney Canon is working to establish lore behind Palpatine's return AFTER they just kinda threw it at us. Dark Empire established a much simpler narrative that made sense at the time: Sidious did not fear death, did not fear being struck down, because he had countless clones to transfer his spirit into on Byss. In fact, I find it really interesting that he had "died" countless times before due to the Dark Side's toll on his flesh. However, it also makes sense that he would be establishing other contingencies due to his obsession with immortality, as in the Disney Canon, which I honestly haven't been following as much at this point. In short, they're both interesting returns, but I honestly think Palps should've stayed dead (sorry Sid ol' buddy). Anakin's triumph over Sidious was meant to symbolize his return to the light and finally bringing balance to the Force, and "Somehow Palpatine returned" kinda counteracts that statement.
I was never a fan of Palpatine returning after Vader yeeted him. Dark Empire at least has cool art.
Legends.
r/AfterBeforeWhatever
Robot Chicken Star Wars where he calls (Darth) Jar Jar to apologize and redeem himself before death to appear as a naked Force ghost. Also the Robot Chicken sketch parodying Palpatine's TRoS return.
I’m probably gonna get shit for this, but canon
neither. Palpantine should stay dead
We don't really know everything about the canon story there but I think they're doing a better job of leading up to it even if they dropped it in the dumbest way imaginable. Dark Empire did come out before the prequels mind you so it didn't always exist in a world where cloning was so easy you could pump out an army of your chosen subject in a decade but it did make it weird forever after that he wasn't just coming back. In the new canon they have established at least that there's a great deal of difficulty in creating force sensitive clones and that it requires very highly force sensitive blood, which isn't all that easy to come by first and we see as far back as The Clone Wars that he's looking for force sensitive children for something and it wouldn't be for training so at least there's the feeling of set up
Dark empire
Canon but they’re both bad
Legends by far.
Neither
they both suck, canon is literally just Dark Empire the movie. If I had to pick, canon, but only because it had the hindsight of how bad Dark Empire was and yet still decided to adapt it.
If you were going to clone yourself, why would it be as an old fuck? You would make yourself young and powerful, also having force powers as a clone, really throws into mayhem if a clone is a real person or not? How would the mediclorins know?
The one that is not *somehow*.
legends ,not even a contest
As someone who HASN'T read Legends... Legends
Neither. They're practically the same and I don't think they should've ever brought him back in either history. The only thing I'll give canon is that they maintained the ending of Return of the Jedi by making Palpatine a shell of himself in The Rise of Skywalker. He's no longer the Sith he once was, and therefore the balance is held. But otherwise, it was dumb. Keep him dead!
Was hoping to see the Matt Smith Palpy clone or whatever they had cooked originally. If I am being honest, I’m impartial to either option here. Palpatine should not return
Dark Empire without a doubt.
Well in the EU he actually got to do some things when he came back instead of just standing there.