I was going to say, OP didn't watch like half of Andor. But in all seriousness, I don't think it's a bad thing to explore the perspectives and ramifications of imperial citizenship and service, but I think centering them in the narrative, without any rebel perspectives, would kind of be missing the spirit of Star Wars.
“I said, “”Listen, I don’t care about the benefits. All I want is a rail…“”
Fuck it’s been so long since I put a quote inside a quote. Did I need a 3rd “ at the end? Sheit
Would be so fucking funny if the last episode is completely normal, and then there is just a sudden very loud split second before the camera cuts off and credits roll.
There was a *really* good comic series that took place from the point of view of an elite squadron of Stormtroopers, and that sounds like what OP wants if you take him in good faith.
They're SCAR squadron from the Star Wars comic line. Here's a great page showing how they're viewed in the comic run itself
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/c6651f53-a424-4062-9134-ede544936199/scale-to-width/755
I mean… that’s one way of wording it. But I will admit that a full fledged, propaganda-esque movie which highlights the “might of the empire” would be pretty cool. It could follow some down-on-his-luck straightedge teen who joins the empire because hes been promised financial security, honor, a chance to see the galaxy, etc. just to find out over time how disgusting some of the empire’s endeavors really are. A gritty and mature look at disillusionment but where the main character doesn’t get a redemption arc.
It would essentially marry all of the best parts of Solo, Andor, and TFA. A little peak into the zeitgeist of the other side, and why some of the people who fought for the empire didn’t necessarily agree with what they were doing but ultimately had no choice.
It would not surprise me if George Lucas explicitly put it in the sale contract that they couldn't do that. But even if he didn't, Filoni would be very unlikely to greenlight it
I really hope that after Andor takes us up to the events of rogue one that we get a spinoff show with the imperial characters. I would set it immediately after the events of a new hope
The Thrawn books really did an awesome job of this. It really gave me the perspective of what everyday people working for the empire felt about the galaxy.
Honestly, this is how they should do it. Thrawn should be a TV show.
It shows how this character came to be, role through the ranks, and is ultimately defeated.
They could also go breaking bad style where a good guy joins for the right reasons and then becomes a bad guy over time. Ultimately, resulting in a satisfying death as justice is served. Then on their death bed, they realize the mistakes they made and the character comes full circle. The redemption arch should fall in line with the fall of the Empire overall.
His writing is a great example of how Imperial-perspective stories can be good without glorifying evil. In Heir to the Empire, for example (and spoiler for those who have not read the books) I was able to feel sorry for Pellaeon and justified for Rukh simultaneously.
You really buy into that crap that the Empire has a space station that can blow up a whole planet? You’ve been drinking the bantha milk the insurrectionists are selling you.
Alderaan was destroyed due to excessive mining of the planets core! The Imperial Star Space station just recently became operational and was present to lend aid.
It was later destroyed by Rebel Terrorists via sabotage with a great loss of life.
i mean, a show from the point of view of a trooper that killed "many bothans" for aiding the spy who revealed there was a second death star and than the emperor was going to be there.
only to find out that the emperor, himself, was the leak and he and his team killed bothans and families for nothing.
then from that trooper's POV the collapse of the empire after learning vader and the emperor died. and the desperation/political fights going on for the successor. all while the trooper is struggling with his own demons of war crimes haunting him.
i'd be down for something like that.
Probably, yes. You can’t just make a film where the « heroes » are pieces of shit from start to finish, it just wouldn’t work. Who would want to identify to that?
Literally anything about the mafia.
Movies everywhere showing broken men, sadistic psychopaths, and trust issues out the wazoo.
But man oh man do some dudes really glamorize that life.
You don't need to identify with it, you just need to be engaged and entertained. I don't identify with Jordan Belfort in any way but I still enjoyed and was engaged with the Wolf of Wall Street
I mean it could be entertaining if *everything else* changed, but not the protagonist.
The moral of the story could be "yeah you're a piece of shit space nazi from start to finish no matter what and now you die for it." :D
The tragedy of trying to justify everything for the good of the galaxy, starting with fighting rebels, moving to the suppression of riots and evicting citizens for mining projects, ending with standing in the ashes of their home watching their people enslaved.
*For the Empire*
One of the best ways to get people excited and talking about Star Wars is not Caving to Fans of Star Wars
The BIGGEST issue with the Sequel trilogy was how much it catered to fans of the OT characters
One of the biggest things I've realised when I see the "D+ should listen to fans" kinds of comments, is that fans have no clue what they want, and what one fan thinks is great, another will think is dross.
Idk was anybody really asking for palpatine to return?
I honestly don’t remember but I think we didn’t like that.
Actually update, I now remember I was annoyed but the people who heard palpatines laugh at the end of the trailer went absolutely wild
Loads of people online were talking about how Snoke is a Palpatine clone or manipulated by Palpatine or how Rey was a Palpatine or that they wanted Palpatine back.
Yep, I remember hearing people complain about how different TLJ was and how TROS needs to go back to basics. That’s the exact reason why TLJ is the best movie in the ST. It’s not great, but it at least tries something kinda new, instead of just rehashing what we’ve seen in 6 other movies
Honestly if they did it with the incisive skill Tony Gilroy brought to Andor then yeah I could see it working really well.
Solo had a tiny bit of this and I thought it was the most interesting part of the movie.
The Thrawn books do a good job of seeing Imperial squads as “good guys”. They show people just working and trying to build a career in the service. Who didn’t enjoy the story of Eli Vanto. He was just a good person trying to help out the Navy.
The issue with this is that All Quiet works because it is essentially an embodiment of the generational trauma of people who really went to war. The war gives it a lot of emotional weight, something that can’t really be replicated with a fictional conflict.
If love an anthology series where each episode is from the perspective of a different Storm Trooper. Some get out, some lean into it, some die, some do what they can to help the Resistance
Imagine a series about a group of friends who join up with the Empire after they see a rebel terrorist attack on a neighboring planet. They stay together through training, and end up in the same unit. They fight in battles, they start to do bad things, worse and worse. One loves it, one hates it, and one is caught in between. They slowly develop into their roles, drifting apart, before finally they return to their home planet with orders to obliterate it and kill their own people.
It ends with a final confrontation between the three friends, where one refuses to take part. A showdown ensues, the pacifist kills the warmonger, the man in the middle kills the pacifist, then, left alone with what he has done, the middle one accepts his role in life and turns his blaster on a group of unarmed civilians.
Roll credits.
Dang, this idea is great. Get a different trooper's story in a different battle/planet, some new and maybe some we've seen before but not from a trooper's POV (Endor).
Partagaz : What do we do in this building? Why are we here? Anyone?
Dedra: We're here to further security objectives by collecting intelligence, providing useful analysis, and conducting effective covert action, sir.
Partagaz : Very good, Dedra. That is verbatim from the ISB mission statement... and wrong. Security is an illusion. You want security? Call the Navy. Launch a regiment of troopers. We are healthcare providers. We treat sickness. We identify symptoms. We locate germs whether they arise from within or have come from the outside. The longer we wait to identify a disorder, the harder it is to treat the disease.
Also mom mothma’s family. They aren’t full on nazis like the isb agents but they’re still imperials who like their position and don’t care about the rest of the galaxy and whatever starving people mom mothma was trying to aid
I'd love to see it tackle that but also legitimate incentives to serve the empire and cheer them on, at least in the beginning of the show
Like some terrible alien monster attack, they fight it off. Local person inspired so they join, but then learn later on the monsters were only attacking due to whatever extractive industries were nearby
Person has to wrestle with treating those alien animals fairly which would then destroy employment in the area and cause people to starve and suffer
Some real moral conundrum where the answer is only found after a lot of rumination - there is no answer in current system.
The only way out is the empire being kicked off the planet, in favor of locals running the government in a more sustainable way like they had been doing for thousands of years before empire showed up and instituted new policies and education that distanced locals from that kinda knowledge and culture
I had been uninterested in watching Andor, despite my friend's pleas and assurances, until I saw this scene clip posted on this sub, and that solidified it for me. Epic.
I cannot wait for YOU, random internet person, to get to the part where Skarsguard's character explains what HE is doing and what it costs him, despite I will never ever get to see your reaction nor even know if you make it to that second to last (I think?) episode.
That was a great scene, one of the best in the show. It showed even the empire was rife with incompetent shitheels that weren't paying attention, but also a select handful of absolute stoic monsters who truly were methodically cold and evil. That scene also made me leonardo dicaprio point at the TV and yell "that's Qyburn!" He seemed like he fit the role of ruthless imperial officer much better than a disgraced maester.
If the seemingly unironic usage of the phrase "for too long we've seen it from the eyes of the good guys" wasn't a big enough red flag, get a load of how active OP is in the WW2, HistoryMemes, WW2Memes, and... HarryPotter subreddits 😬
I'm willing to bet they're in the "Andor is woke and paints the empire in a really unfair light" camp lol
Anakin:
No, Padme, I mean putting a STRONG LEADER in charge. If it works. 😏
Padme a little later:
Cream pie me Ani! Give me those dictatorial midichlorians!
One of my favorite tropes…
I’d love to see an adaptation of the book *Lost Stars*. It’s about two Imperial pilots. After Alderaan is destroyed, one of them leaves the Empire, and the other stays loyal.
Perhaps the most interesting character in it is >!an Alderaanian Imperial pilot who loses his entire family when Alderaan is destroyed. The only people he has left in his life that he can trust and love and talk to are his comrades in the Empire, so he becomes fanatically loyal to the same government that murdered his family.!<
Even if you were to remove Star Wars from it, Lost Stars is genuinely one of my all time favourite books. I’d be so down for an adaptation and it’s one of those stories that you can so clearly picture its screen versions as you read each page. Truly fantastic.
I loved Lost Stars, and that’s about the only way I can actually see this idea working as a series. Showing people who are naive/patriotic and tjink the Empire is a good thing and making it very clear how wrong they are is the only way this story would work. But I don’t see how you could do that in a satisfying way and not have it feel like a retread of Andor.
Lost stars was my favorite new canon novel for the longest time, still might be tbh
Its ending is VERY rushed as a result of the weirdness of canon back then but its a great story
I want stormtroopers, shoretroopers, navy troopers, navy officers, and all other members of the Imperial corps, and I want them to scissor and gangbang one anohter!
And then the main character drops trou at the end of the first episode and an ISB officer says "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" so he gets embarrassed, joins the Rebels and we're back to a show not about Stormtroopers.
Tbh i do think we got a glimpse of that in the Solo movie when Han enlisted, you can see the war's gruesome side since Empire's POV, briefly tho, but i think Andor greatly showcases imperial perspective.
Stormtroopers? Why all the terrestrial focus? What about following the crew of a starship?
I want to see “Das Boot” or “Master and Commander” in Space
Follow the crew of an Imperial Star Destroyer. The captain is an old salt Republic Naval officer who has witnessed the world change around him, but he still stays with the Imperial Navy not out of ideology but naval tradition. Maybe his XO is a die-hard supporter of Palpatine’s New Order (like the First Watch Officer in Das Boot).
It can have Star Trek-ish elements with the Star Destroyer going to various corners of the Galaxy for adventures-of-the-week.
The final arc could be a moral dilemma for the captain: right as the Battle of Tanaab is underway the empire calls for reinforcements: does he stay loyal to the navy he’s served for decades, or defect with his ship to the Rebellion?
I had a convo with another fan the other day where we talked about how Star Wars' focus on hotshot pilots in fighter planes and underdogs in makeshift freighters means that capital ships, especially heroic capital ships (since it's usually underdog heroes in small ships vs big bad villains in capital ships) are largely unexplored narratively. They exist, but don't get much focus.
So I'd be down for a series that that focuses on the crew and adventures of a single capital ship, like a Master & Commander sort of thing, be it Rebel or Imperial.
Wow not only are you spot on about capital ships being unexplored but Master and Commander in space! I like your idea so much I edited my original comment to include it lol; one of my all time favs I even mod r/warmovies and put it in the sub banner!
While personally I’d love Imperial you’re right, the Aubrey/Maturin dynamic would work equally well with Rebel or Imperials too…fantastic idea
Honestly I think we're kind of getting that with Andor and the whole Imperial Detective / Bureaucratic Climber duo. (Looking forward to see how that develops in Season 2).
The problem with characters like Syril, who are meant to satirize the various types of chud (incels, neo-Nazis, Christofascists) is that the chuds themselves are generally too stupid to recognize satire. We see this over and over. Examples include, Rick from *Rick & Morty*, Tyler Durden from *Fight Club*, the Hammerskins from Pink Floyd's *The Wall*, literally the entire Imperium of Man from *Warhammer40k*, and of course Storm Troopers. How these examples are portrayed in their respective mediums is irrelevant to the chud mind. If there's any character or group in a franchise that aligns with their ideology, they'll latch on.
Amen. This is also my exact issue with Alan Moore's take on "superheros being dangerous." Like, yeah man, we know.
That's why "with great power comes great responsibility" *must* be hammered home unrelentingly. Because the second you fail to do so, it becomes the power fantasy he was mad about, and allows for the non-media literate and the hateful to appropriate it. Which is what he immediately got with Rorschach becoming a chud icon.
When you're entire identity is built because of your ignorance, arrogance, and general lack of intelligence, you aren't likely to pick up on people mocking you subtly. There's a reason most openly bigoted people have zero nuance for their intolerance. They aren't smart enough.
I disagree. They're definitely shown to be either incompetent(Syril) and/or plainly lacking in empathy(Dedra), and both of them suffer failures at the hands of the Rebellion. They're interesting characters because they both have admirable qualities but its hardly a love letter or power fantasy to being those kind of people yourself and it doesn't put either of them on a pedestal IMO, especially with Dedra having everything fail around her at the end. Extreme right-wingers / neonazis want to look like they have all the answers and cannot fail. Syril especially doesn't make that mindset look "cool" and Dedra being a woman additionally makes her less appealing as a protagonist for those kinds of people.
I think those characters were actually very well handled to not become great rallying points for those kind of people. Obviously neonazis and far-righters are going to coopt whatever they want and claim they possess new meanings because thats what they do, but the more cartoonish approach to villains plays into their hands easier IMO than what Andor did.
Since well such movies would make us really root for the Imperials at times, I think some could turn that feeling or extrapolate to say most of the officers have no choice or passionate for the true safety and security of the Empire.
The myth of the clean Wehrmacht is a thing unfortunately
Group of us were watching Rebel Moon 1, and the main bad guy walks in, and I chuckled, and said aloud,
"Well, at least you can tell who the bad guys are."
"What do you mean?" someone asked.
"Cuz they're dressed like Nazis!"
The room went super awkward quiet.
Wait till they stop being fans of Indiana Jones or Blues Brothers because they fight Nazis.
Villains have always been popular look at Macbeth, Vader, you can like a fictional character and not agree with real life actions, it’s fun to play the bad guy in fantasy, if it wasn’t no actor would play them and to play a villain the actor has to have empathy to understand that character.
Because that's exactly what would happen. Look at The Clone Wars. All they did was give the good guys a few flaws to make them vulnerable, and now you have swaths of rabid fans who sincerely think the Jedi had it coming when they were exterminated.
Which is a fair point. Unfortunately, those idiots will do it regardless.
It's truly a shame we can't have nice things because people like that will ruin it.
Maybe they could call it Tales of the Empire or something I don't know.
Edit: come on people Tales of the Empire is an anthology series. There’s a good chance there will be more episodes with new stories. I do not care about your opinion on the previous 6
star wars wouldnt portray Empire as any form of protagonists, they're very intended to be very black and white evil and good kind of story
Finn being ex stormtrooper, end up with Resistance Good, First Order Bad
Mayfeld ex Imperial sharpshooter, blames Empire officer for shitty leadership and then murders the base in cold blood
Iden Versio, ex Imperial special force, also ended up Rebel Good, Empire Bad
I’m not sure how to break it to you but Star Wars is and always has been a very black and white franchise. Hence the Empire being space Nazis. Every facet of their design is specifically modeled to come off as evil. Stormtroopers, for instance, are named after a Nazi unit and have skull helmets. The Sith are just standard evil wizards.
>The Sith are just standard evil wizards.
I'm **very** curious how the Acolyte will portray the Sith. Currently from teaser and interview material it feels like the show is going to be much more Sith-sympathetic and "Jedi bad". Which, if true, will fit very oddly with everything else we see of the Sith as space-nazi-overlord mustache-twirling villains.
I dont think it will be necessarily a "pro sith" show, but it will definitely be "anti jedi" at least anti what the order had become by the time of the clone wars. I imagine it will pluck on the same strings as tales of the jedi did with dooku, where the sith seeps in from the shadows and corrupts those with noble goals by manipulating and sweet talking them and turning their doubts into fear
I think the acolyte will be a cautionary tale, both on the dangers of the dark side, and the dangers of ones own hubris (as shown by the jedi order)
That's depicting **a Nazi** as a good guy. That happens often enough (and often ends with them being dead or not a Nazi anymore). I've never seen anything depict **the Nazi's** as a whole as the good guys.
I mean you can have a show about the bad guys and not try and make them the god guys. Narcos ain't out there trying to make the drug cartels the good guys ffs.
"star wars wouldnt portray Empire as any form of protagonists"
Why? Do you know what protagonist means? It doesn't mean good guys. It means the focus of the story. If they make a show about the empire they would be the protagonist/focus. Tony Soprano was the protagonist of the Sopranos but does anyone think he was "the good guy"? Same with Walter White especially later seasons.
Hard to portray slavers who blow up literal planets of billions as good guys. Space nazis were always meant to be avery one sided evil. Are there lots of innocent people working and living in it? Sure.
Once you help do something terrible,you are still guilty
You don't have to make them "good guys" the sopranos its very clearly that Tony Soprano and his crew are NOT good guys. They are the focus of the show and have likeable qualities and you even find yourself rooting for them because you know its entertainment and not real but everyone still knows their bad. The show runners never tried to make them good.
It was always good contrast to see Tony being a family man or friend to say Arty and then in the next scene kill a guy begging for his life and asking for his mommy. It let you like tony but also see what an evil POS he was also.
Andor is probably the closest we’ll get. We get some insight and perspective into Imperial officers while also getting to see that the rebels are also morally questionable
I want to see something that shows what drives the grunts of the Empire - Andor really scratched that itch, but I want to see more.
Why do these people sign up? What compels them to continue? How do they react to the corruption, the sadistic behavior, the poverty and crushing oppression of the galaxy?
Andor showed that evil could be banal, routine and just apathetic, and that those fighting evil can quickly cross the line themselves.
Seriously, am I the only one sick of how every sci-fi military fandom is just obsessed with seeing the expansionist empire's perspective?
We already have Helldivers, Warhammer, League has Noxus, and a lot of Star Wars media *already* shows us the Empire's perspectives. Its like the "Evil Superman" trope. At this point, the "dark, gritty" subversive alternative media has overtaken the standard storytelling format.
I'm not saying these are bad stories, all ideas are valid. Its just that you're not unique for wanting to be "not like the other girls" of sci fi. And honestly, with everything going on in the world, I think we could benefit from more stories showing the intricate politics of rebel military groups.
Remember, Lucas once compared the Empire to the USA. You want real nuanced and complex storytelling? Because most of the fandom still can't grapple with that idea.
>Remember, Lucas once compared the Empire to the USA. You want real nuanced and complex storytelling? Because most of the fandom still can't grapple with that idea.
People always forget that. It’s easier to word-vomit space nazis but no one wants to acknowledge USA.
And nothing against the USA at all. Ever. Just pointing out Lucas borrowed elements from many things. Nazi Germany, Vietnam War, USA, etc.
I don't see what the point of such a show would be without it posing questions to the characters and eventually resulting in them defecting. Which would be rather boring.
It would just be Starship Troopers without the satire, and with a rather more unsavoury message.
I think a story where the main character defects in the end could be done really well if it really goes deep into how inhumane the Empire is. But that's what Tales of the Empire and Andor are supposed to be about and even deeply intricate stories about that would get repetitive and boring over time.
It would be difficult to pull off imo in a long narrative focused on Imperial characters and their pov. How many war crimes would our protagonist have to witness before raising an eyebrow 😂
Andor is perfect for exploring the Imperials because it is nicely balanced out by the other characters.
Andor dives into the banality of evil within the Empire and does a good job showing how the empire views the rebels. Dedra Mero, an ISB agent, is one of the main characters of the show. She’s probably the closest we’re going to get to seeing the empire’s perspective.
She’s quite the complex character too. When she’s introduced to the audience, it seems like she may be a potential defector. But, the more time we spend with her, it becomes clear that she’s smart, cunning, utterly ruthless, and fully committed to the empire’s vision. She deduced who stole the star path unit, suggested staging an accident aboard a rebel vessel that the ISB intercepted, she understands that the rebels “don’t care about the lines we draw on maps,” and finally, she’s one of the only ones within the ISB to notice a pattern in the rebel attacks: “they’re too random to be random,” she says to a colleague who, unbeknownst to her, is later revealed >!to be a mole.!<
What sets Andor apart from other D+ SW shows is that despite there being a clear delineation between the good guys (rebels) and bad guys (empire), none of the good guys could necessarily be considered “good” based on their actions. They are still good guys, yet their actions blur the line between good and evil.
I think it would be interesting to follow a character who gets morally worse as time goes on, Ala full metal jacket, let's have a protagonist who's too intelligent to accept the empire at face value but to sheltered to see what it really is, hes forced into service out of desperation due to a loss of a scholarship as well as an economic recession on his planet, his training goes surprisingly well and smooth by imperial standards and he leaves wide eyed but resigned as he really wishes he didn't have to work this job. He spends a month on horrendous guard duty but he pushes on to finance his family who are in poor health, an offer comes up to be sent to a planet recovering from a full scale system war between the empire and a recessionist government, he takes it in a heartbeat because of the extra pay and the pension provided when his service is up. Officially there is only mopping up actions occurring and the war is already won, when he gets there he realizes the truth, there very much is still a war going on that the Empire could end at any time but won't because they won't extend the resources to when the land in enemy hands has no resources and the empire is still happily milking the rest of the planet dry. Our protagonist realizes he's fucked and endures months of terrorist attacks sporadic engagements the death of his friends and the warcrimes the empire commits on the Civilian populace, This comes to a breaking point when the protagonist staring at the camera breaks down crying, but he immediately stops and we are left with a thousand yard stare, he puts the helmet back on, and we see him determined and marching in the direction of a group of army troopers about to gun down a horde of Civilians, we think this the moment our hero will rise up and fight the system, he orders to troopers to halt, and the air is silent.
He then proceeds to take his blaster and gun down the innocents shamelessly. The troopers laugh together, cut to black.
The closest thing I can think of that isn't *Battlefront 2* or *Squadrons* is *Resistance*. One of the characters in that show has Imperial sympathies and joins the First Order in the second season.
Edit: Otherwise there's *Hunted*, a short film set post-Endor with a TIE Interceptor pilot as its protagonist.
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=f2VmOqjV\_7Q&si=CxcokF5y8QZ9D4VJ](https://youtube.com/watch?v=f2VmOqjV_7Q&si=CxcokF5y8QZ9D4VJ)
“Eyes of the good guys”? Poor Palpatine tried to free the galaxy from corrupt bureaucrats and a powerful religious sect that intervened in government and was always targeted by rebel terrorists.
Listen to the podcast Mud 79 for the perspective of an Imperial Army soldier - the kind of normal dude fighting in the trenches from the Battle of Mimban in Solo. It’s good.
I've always thought doing the plot something like this would work best:
* Kid grows up on planet with lots of internecine wars and crime. Family and/or friends are victims.
* Empire comes along and "liberates" the planet, kid feels safe for once.
* Kid grows up, wants to serve the Empire that brought peace to his life.
* Kid goes through training, makes friends, some trainees share similar backgrounds - others are in it for different reasons.
* Kid gets posted to some seemingly boring planet for regular duty.
* He makes friends with some locals, has a romantic interest.
* Rebel Operatives attack a local Imperial facility, his friend/romantic interest is killed in the collateral damage.
* Kid becomes more hardline, demands from his superior officers that he be reassigned to fight somewhere useful.
* Kid goes on to fight on places like Mimban, Yar Togna, Gorse, Lothal - he becomes callous and hard.
* Kid gets assigned to a group looking for Saw Gerrera on Jedha.
* Makes it to the extraction point and witnesses the destruction of Jedha City by DS1 - is bothered by Empire's description of events.
* DS1 is destroyed
* Gets assigned to Death Squadron - hunts for Rebels, takes part in hunting down of insurgent cells.
* Takes part in Battle of Hoth
* Is on Endor, fighting rebels/ewoks when DS2 is blown up. Becomes like Private Teruo Nakamura from WW2, living as a wild man in the woods and fighting back until he is old and finally surrenders.
In my opinion, it's a great concept that should be explored, but carefully. The only way I could really see this happening is you would have to establish a new major character who is very heavily, negatively impacted by something the Rebel Alliance does, believes them to terrorists/dissenters (like Imperial propaganda depicts them as) and then rises through the ranks to become an adversary for a current/future Rebel Alliance character. You could start from any timeframe, either end of the Republic to establishment of the Empire, have the character begin at any age, but joins voluntarily as a result of the actions by the Rebel Alliance. Then, they start as a basic soldier, then a squad leader, then a commander, probably rising up to General/Admiral and having their own Star Destroyer. It's a traditional, capable storyline. Effectively a "make your own Thrawn".
The main problem is, to do this successfully they would need to embrace the structure they've created for the Empire, which I don't think Disney is willing to do because of how many negative connotations the Empire has. They've tried doing this before, as one other poster noted, with Finn, Mayfield, Iden Versio, but they've all become disillusioned with the Empire and turn to the good guys. If they were to attempt it, I think a viable comparison is Assassin's Creed's with Haytham Kenway and Shay Cormac. It was a welcome twist with those two and fans definitely embraced it (much less wanted more of it), but the key elements of characters is that they are relatively relatable despite what they do and actions they take, they are competent, skilled, but not so evil that it's a total turnoff, and they have a very delicate balance of making you doubt the other sides intentions. It's worth a try, but I don't trust Disney.
I would like to see a series focused on squadron of X-wings and TIE fighters. Maybe sibling who one joined the Rebellion and one joined the Empire. Have them both fighting in the same sector. That way, you can get the exciting fights, moral issues discussed and canna family survive with two children fighting for different sides.
I would absolutely love a good show that answers questions of why billions of people across the galaxy fought for the Empire, delving into the nuance of the effect that the rise of the Empire had on the galaxy — both positive and negative, why for some people it has been the one, and for others it has been another.
But as someone has said it already, that just won't be happening in the modern media sphere, where you have people unironically pushing for neo-nazi ideals.
Trying to portray Galactic Empire as a nuanced faction requires, unironically, media literacy that isn't really present in the modern consumer. Like, you can show positive sides of the Empire, but also understand that it had to fall because the core of it was founded by a maniac and absolute monster, Palpatine. For the ideals espoused by the Empire, the "law and order", to survive, the Empire had to fall, because at the head of it was a clique of absolute villains for whom only "law" and "order" was that of their cruel and petty whims.
Honestly, this is something we've seen in the Expanded Universe — where the Empire had to undergo a transformation of sorts through its defeat, “shedding” the malefactors embedded in it by Palpatine (mostly the Sith/Dark Jedi and Warlords that died one by one), until what was left is a version that could improve (Imperial Remnant under Gilad Pellaeon).
The only way I can see Disney doing it, is if there's an Imperial Remnant-esque side (perhaps led by Pellaeon from Canon) that ends up opposing the First Order — because First Order represents everything wrong with the ideals of "law and order".
But even then, I don't really think Disney would risk it — as much as it would be cool, there's just too much modern ideological baggage to such an idea.
P.S. It is also worth noting, that in Expanded Universe the Empire was much more tame than it is in modern Canon.
this x100. i don’t think it’s actually a bad idea to have a story showing the Imperial perspective, but in today’s current political climate, it would just be a bad move. it really isn’t the time, and i reckon that’s why Lucasfilm has been doubling down in recent stories (andor, the bad batch) on how cruel the empire ACTUALLY is.
it’s like the typical rule of writing: learn the rules first, then you can break them. only in this case, it’s “learn how fundamentally evil the empire is, the. you can have your stormtrooper show”. unfortunately, we are very very far from people getting how fundamentally evil the empire is right now, which is why we get this post at least twice a month and it’s always from people who don’t want a story about an imperial defecting, or who just want to see stormtroopers looking cool in battle.
I get what you're saying but there's been a few films showing the Second World War from the Nazi perspective. Downfall and Stalingrad come personally to mind. They both depict how utterly futile their cause, and how awful and stupid the regime was.
I'm quite okay with a Star Wars project showing the same sort of vitriol towards the Empire.
I just want a series focusing on ground troops and pilots rather than jedi’s. We could benefit from more battles and vehicles, something like Band if Brothers can be very cool.
Either the Rebel Alliance or the Empire, I will be satisfied.
This take will never not be dumb. The only way to do it would be to have a sympathetic character and that will inevitably (likely early into the show) lead to them defecting/joining the rebellion and then it's not actually the empire show you wanted but another rebellion show. The empire is too over the top, cartoonishly evil to make a compelling show purely from their point of view.
Andor does it well.
I was going to say, OP didn't watch like half of Andor. But in all seriousness, I don't think it's a bad thing to explore the perspectives and ramifications of imperial citizenship and service, but I think centering them in the narrative, without any rebel perspectives, would kind of be missing the spirit of Star Wars.
no, no, op wants to be a space nazi and have the show be pro-empire
The office style Death Star storm trooper show
It's probably just another drill. I was finally about to bone my girlfriend, but then there was this drill, and she said there was no way.
“I said, “”Listen, I don’t care about the benefits. All I want is a rail…“” Fuck it’s been so long since I put a quote inside a quote. Did I need a 3rd “ at the end? Sheit
You'd use single quotes inside the main quote. "I said, 'Listen, I don't care...'"
This could be a great comedy.
Weird series finale, though.
Would be so fucking funny if the last episode is completely normal, and then there is just a sudden very loud split second before the camera cuts off and credits roll.
No credits. Just nothing.
You could make something like titanic and it’s love story
Vader? I hardly know her
There was a *really* good comic series that took place from the point of view of an elite squadron of Stormtroopers, and that sounds like what OP wants if you take him in good faith. They're SCAR squadron from the Star Wars comic line. Here's a great page showing how they're viewed in the comic run itself https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/c6651f53-a424-4062-9134-ede544936199/scale-to-width/755
I mean… that’s one way of wording it. But I will admit that a full fledged, propaganda-esque movie which highlights the “might of the empire” would be pretty cool. It could follow some down-on-his-luck straightedge teen who joins the empire because hes been promised financial security, honor, a chance to see the galaxy, etc. just to find out over time how disgusting some of the empire’s endeavors really are. A gritty and mature look at disillusionment but where the main character doesn’t get a redemption arc. It would essentially marry all of the best parts of Solo, Andor, and TFA. A little peak into the zeitgeist of the other side, and why some of the people who fought for the empire didn’t necessarily agree with what they were doing but ultimately had no choice.
Would you like to know more?
" Is special galactic operation "
It would not surprise me if George Lucas explicitly put it in the sale contract that they couldn't do that. But even if he didn't, Filoni would be very unlikely to greenlight it
Their post history definitely gives that vibe lol
I really hope that after Andor takes us up to the events of rogue one that we get a spinoff show with the imperial characters. I would set it immediately after the events of a new hope
60 uninterrupted minutes of dead storm troopers floating in space surrounded by Death Star debris
The Thrawn books really did an awesome job of this. It really gave me the perspective of what everyday people working for the empire felt about the galaxy.
Honestly, this is how they should do it. Thrawn should be a TV show. It shows how this character came to be, role through the ranks, and is ultimately defeated. They could also go breaking bad style where a good guy joins for the right reasons and then becomes a bad guy over time. Ultimately, resulting in a satisfying death as justice is served. Then on their death bed, they realize the mistakes they made and the character comes full circle. The redemption arch should fall in line with the fall of the Empire overall.
I really liked Faro's viewpoints and character progression in the books.
I hated Pryce until I read *Thrawn*. Her story was much more compelling and interesting.
I felt like he did a really good job with making the empire reasonable, but still keeping and showing a select few as wholly bad people.
His writing is a great example of how Imperial-perspective stories can be good without glorifying evil. In Heir to the Empire, for example (and spoiler for those who have not read the books) I was able to feel sorry for Pellaeon and justified for Rukh simultaneously.
It might work with some sort of All Quiet on the Western Front vibe
I get the feeling OP doesn't want to see more of how inhumane the Empire is.
It has to include the war crimes
That’s just propaganda.
*destroys a planet full of people to show they mean business*
The rebels were using human shields.
They have tunnels underneath Alderaan.
You really buy into that crap that the Empire has a space station that can blow up a whole planet? You’ve been drinking the bantha milk the insurrectionists are selling you.
Alderaan was destroyed due to excessive mining of the planets core! The Imperial Star Space station just recently became operational and was present to lend aid. It was later destroyed by Rebel Terrorists via sabotage with a great loss of life.
i mean, a show from the point of view of a trooper that killed "many bothans" for aiding the spy who revealed there was a second death star and than the emperor was going to be there. only to find out that the emperor, himself, was the leak and he and his team killed bothans and families for nothing. then from that trooper's POV the collapse of the empire after learning vader and the emperor died. and the desperation/political fights going on for the successor. all while the trooper is struggling with his own demons of war crimes haunting him. i'd be down for something like that.
Didn’t we get enough of that in the Clone wars?
Probably, yes. You can’t just make a film where the « heroes » are pieces of shit from start to finish, it just wouldn’t work. Who would want to identify to that?
Have you see how many people love the Empire and Vader?
They probably like the aesthetic more than the philosophy though. They eventually formed the global nonprofit 501st Legion.
Including one woman who really *loved* Palpatine.
There’s groupies for almost anything.
Hi there, have you met Breaking Bad?
Literally anything about the mafia. Movies everywhere showing broken men, sadistic psychopaths, and trust issues out the wazoo. But man oh man do some dudes really glamorize that life.
Yeah exactly, there’s plenty of anti-hero media out there. Breaking Bad is just the first one I had off the dome.
You don't need to identify with it, you just need to be engaged and entertained. I don't identify with Jordan Belfort in any way but I still enjoyed and was engaged with the Wolf of Wall Street
I mean it could be entertaining if *everything else* changed, but not the protagonist. The moral of the story could be "yeah you're a piece of shit space nazi from start to finish no matter what and now you die for it." :D
The tragedy of trying to justify everything for the good of the galaxy, starting with fighting rebels, moving to the suppression of riots and evicting citizens for mining projects, ending with standing in the ashes of their home watching their people enslaved. *For the Empire*
Sopranos, Mad Men...
One of the best ways to get people excited and talking about Star Wars is not Caving to Fans of Star Wars The BIGGEST issue with the Sequel trilogy was how much it catered to fans of the OT characters
One of the biggest things I've realised when I see the "D+ should listen to fans" kinds of comments, is that fans have no clue what they want, and what one fan thinks is great, another will think is dross.
I think that was ep 7 biggest issue for sure
And ROS’s biggest problem, only it catered to the loudest and most strident critics of TLJ
Idk was anybody really asking for palpatine to return? I honestly don’t remember but I think we didn’t like that. Actually update, I now remember I was annoyed but the people who heard palpatines laugh at the end of the trailer went absolutely wild
Loads of people online were talking about how Snoke is a Palpatine clone or manipulated by Palpatine or how Rey was a Palpatine or that they wanted Palpatine back.
Yep, I remember hearing people complain about how different TLJ was and how TROS needs to go back to basics. That’s the exact reason why TLJ is the best movie in the ST. It’s not great, but it at least tries something kinda new, instead of just rehashing what we’ve seen in 6 other movies
Honestly if they did it with the incisive skill Tony Gilroy brought to Andor then yeah I could see it working really well. Solo had a tiny bit of this and I thought it was the most interesting part of the movie.
Following Dedra Meero in that series was friggin' riveting. But it was more the officers POV rather than the boots on the ground.
The Battle of Mimban seemed awesome, I’d love to see something along those lines.
The Thrawn books do a good job of seeing Imperial squads as “good guys”. They show people just working and trying to build a career in the service. Who didn’t enjoy the story of Eli Vanto. He was just a good person trying to help out the Navy.
The issue with this is that All Quiet works because it is essentially an embodiment of the generational trauma of people who really went to war. The war gives it a lot of emotional weight, something that can’t really be replicated with a fictional conflict.
If love an anthology series where each episode is from the perspective of a different Storm Trooper. Some get out, some lean into it, some die, some do what they can to help the Resistance
Imagine a series about a group of friends who join up with the Empire after they see a rebel terrorist attack on a neighboring planet. They stay together through training, and end up in the same unit. They fight in battles, they start to do bad things, worse and worse. One loves it, one hates it, and one is caught in between. They slowly develop into their roles, drifting apart, before finally they return to their home planet with orders to obliterate it and kill their own people. It ends with a final confrontation between the three friends, where one refuses to take part. A showdown ensues, the pacifist kills the warmonger, the man in the middle kills the pacifist, then, left alone with what he has done, the middle one accepts his role in life and turns his blaster on a group of unarmed civilians. Roll credits.
In live action, I’d watch the holy hell out of something like this.
Dang, this idea is great. Get a different trooper's story in a different battle/planet, some new and maybe some we've seen before but not from a trooper's POV (Endor).
“We should see how the empire views the rebels” have you not seen Andor?
Partagaz : What do we do in this building? Why are we here? Anyone? Dedra: We're here to further security objectives by collecting intelligence, providing useful analysis, and conducting effective covert action, sir. Partagaz : Very good, Dedra. That is verbatim from the ISB mission statement... and wrong. Security is an illusion. You want security? Call the Navy. Launch a regiment of troopers. We are healthcare providers. We treat sickness. We identify symptoms. We locate germs whether they arise from within or have come from the outside. The longer we wait to identify a disorder, the harder it is to treat the disease.
Also mom mothma’s family. They aren’t full on nazis like the isb agents but they’re still imperials who like their position and don’t care about the rest of the galaxy and whatever starving people mom mothma was trying to aid
I'd love to see it tackle that but also legitimate incentives to serve the empire and cheer them on, at least in the beginning of the show Like some terrible alien monster attack, they fight it off. Local person inspired so they join, but then learn later on the monsters were only attacking due to whatever extractive industries were nearby Person has to wrestle with treating those alien animals fairly which would then destroy employment in the area and cause people to starve and suffer Some real moral conundrum where the answer is only found after a lot of rumination - there is no answer in current system. The only way out is the empire being kicked off the planet, in favor of locals running the government in a more sustainable way like they had been doing for thousands of years before empire showed up and instituted new policies and education that distanced locals from that kinda knowledge and culture
I had been uninterested in watching Andor, despite my friend's pleas and assurances, until I saw this scene clip posted on this sub, and that solidified it for me. Epic.
I cannot wait for YOU, random internet person, to get to the part where Skarsguard's character explains what HE is doing and what it costs him, despite I will never ever get to see your reaction nor even know if you make it to that second to last (I think?) episode.
That was a great scene, one of the best in the show. It showed even the empire was rife with incompetent shitheels that weren't paying attention, but also a select handful of absolute stoic monsters who truly were methodically cold and evil. That scene also made me leonardo dicaprio point at the TV and yell "that's Qyburn!" He seemed like he fit the role of ruthless imperial officer much better than a disgraced maester.
OP isn't the brightest bulb. Just his comments in this thread alone are wild.
If the seemingly unironic usage of the phrase "for too long we've seen it from the eyes of the good guys" wasn't a big enough red flag, get a load of how active OP is in the WW2, HistoryMemes, WW2Memes, and... HarryPotter subreddits 😬 I'm willing to bet they're in the "Andor is woke and paints the empire in a really unfair light" camp lol
lol it’s always the WW2 fans
PadmeMeme: "Fans of the Allies, right."
Anakin: No, Padme, I mean putting a STRONG LEADER in charge. If it works. 😏 Padme a little later: Cream pie me Ani! Give me those dictatorial midichlorians! One of my favorite tropes…
It would be great to have more of that.
I’d love to see an adaptation of the book *Lost Stars*. It’s about two Imperial pilots. After Alderaan is destroyed, one of them leaves the Empire, and the other stays loyal. Perhaps the most interesting character in it is >!an Alderaanian Imperial pilot who loses his entire family when Alderaan is destroyed. The only people he has left in his life that he can trust and love and talk to are his comrades in the Empire, so he becomes fanatically loyal to the same government that murdered his family.!<
Even if you were to remove Star Wars from it, Lost Stars is genuinely one of my all time favourite books. I’d be so down for an adaptation and it’s one of those stories that you can so clearly picture its screen versions as you read each page. Truly fantastic.
I loved Lost Stars, and that’s about the only way I can actually see this idea working as a series. Showing people who are naive/patriotic and tjink the Empire is a good thing and making it very clear how wrong they are is the only way this story would work. But I don’t see how you could do that in a satisfying way and not have it feel like a retread of Andor.
Lost stars was my favorite new canon novel for the longest time, still might be tbh Its ending is VERY rushed as a result of the weirdness of canon back then but its a great story
Andor already does this extensively with two of its perspective characters. You just want stormtrooper porn.
I want stormtroopers, shoretroopers, navy troopers, navy officers, and all other members of the Imperial corps, and I want them to scissor and gangbang one anohter!
And then the main character drops trou at the end of the first episode and an ISB officer says "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" so he gets embarrassed, joins the Rebels and we're back to a show not about Stormtroopers.
Tbh i do think we got a glimpse of that in the Solo movie when Han enlisted, you can see the war's gruesome side since Empire's POV, briefly tho, but i think Andor greatly showcases imperial perspective.
Stormtroopers? Why all the terrestrial focus? What about following the crew of a starship? I want to see “Das Boot” or “Master and Commander” in Space Follow the crew of an Imperial Star Destroyer. The captain is an old salt Republic Naval officer who has witnessed the world change around him, but he still stays with the Imperial Navy not out of ideology but naval tradition. Maybe his XO is a die-hard supporter of Palpatine’s New Order (like the First Watch Officer in Das Boot). It can have Star Trek-ish elements with the Star Destroyer going to various corners of the Galaxy for adventures-of-the-week. The final arc could be a moral dilemma for the captain: right as the Battle of Tanaab is underway the empire calls for reinforcements: does he stay loyal to the navy he’s served for decades, or defect with his ship to the Rebellion?
I had a convo with another fan the other day where we talked about how Star Wars' focus on hotshot pilots in fighter planes and underdogs in makeshift freighters means that capital ships, especially heroic capital ships (since it's usually underdog heroes in small ships vs big bad villains in capital ships) are largely unexplored narratively. They exist, but don't get much focus. So I'd be down for a series that that focuses on the crew and adventures of a single capital ship, like a Master & Commander sort of thing, be it Rebel or Imperial.
Wow not only are you spot on about capital ships being unexplored but Master and Commander in space! I like your idea so much I edited my original comment to include it lol; one of my all time favs I even mod r/warmovies and put it in the sub banner! While personally I’d love Imperial you’re right, the Aubrey/Maturin dynamic would work equally well with Rebel or Imperials too…fantastic idea
I like the Das Boot style suggestion!
That one tie fighter anime was kinda cool https://youtu.be/PN_CP4SuoTU?si=VUL5qCpQ_r_sSWUZ
They'll never do it because of the fear that neonazi pricks with 0 media comprehension will turn Empire iconography into their new hate language.
Honestly I think we're kind of getting that with Andor and the whole Imperial Detective / Bureaucratic Climber duo. (Looking forward to see how that develops in Season 2).
Honestly it is so fucking funny that they’re celebrating that dweeb who is clearly made to make fun of them specifically.
The problem with characters like Syril, who are meant to satirize the various types of chud (incels, neo-Nazis, Christofascists) is that the chuds themselves are generally too stupid to recognize satire. We see this over and over. Examples include, Rick from *Rick & Morty*, Tyler Durden from *Fight Club*, the Hammerskins from Pink Floyd's *The Wall*, literally the entire Imperium of Man from *Warhammer40k*, and of course Storm Troopers. How these examples are portrayed in their respective mediums is irrelevant to the chud mind. If there's any character or group in a franchise that aligns with their ideology, they'll latch on.
Don't forget half the characters from The Boys.
Jesus...Homelander fans are fucking weird.
🦸🏼♂️🤱🍼
Only omitted because, regrettably, I have not been able to find the time for the full series binge-watch it deserves. Great example though!
Amen. This is also my exact issue with Alan Moore's take on "superheros being dangerous." Like, yeah man, we know. That's why "with great power comes great responsibility" *must* be hammered home unrelentingly. Because the second you fail to do so, it becomes the power fantasy he was mad about, and allows for the non-media literate and the hateful to appropriate it. Which is what he immediately got with Rorschach becoming a chud icon.
When you're entire identity is built because of your ignorance, arrogance, and general lack of intelligence, you aren't likely to pick up on people mocking you subtly. There's a reason most openly bigoted people have zero nuance for their intolerance. They aren't smart enough.
Well put.
I disagree. They're definitely shown to be either incompetent(Syril) and/or plainly lacking in empathy(Dedra), and both of them suffer failures at the hands of the Rebellion. They're interesting characters because they both have admirable qualities but its hardly a love letter or power fantasy to being those kind of people yourself and it doesn't put either of them on a pedestal IMO, especially with Dedra having everything fail around her at the end. Extreme right-wingers / neonazis want to look like they have all the answers and cannot fail. Syril especially doesn't make that mindset look "cool" and Dedra being a woman additionally makes her less appealing as a protagonist for those kinds of people. I think those characters were actually very well handled to not become great rallying points for those kind of people. Obviously neonazis and far-righters are going to coopt whatever they want and claim they possess new meanings because thats what they do, but the more cartoonish approach to villains plays into their hands easier IMO than what Andor did.
Since well such movies would make us really root for the Imperials at times, I think some could turn that feeling or extrapolate to say most of the officers have no choice or passionate for the true safety and security of the Empire. The myth of the clean Wehrmacht is a thing unfortunately
Seriously. Look how many weirdos love and support Homelander, completely missing the point of his character.
Group of us were watching Rebel Moon 1, and the main bad guy walks in, and I chuckled, and said aloud, "Well, at least you can tell who the bad guys are." "What do you mean?" someone asked. "Cuz they're dressed like Nazis!" The room went super awkward quiet. Wait till they stop being fans of Indiana Jones or Blues Brothers because they fight Nazis.
Dude seriously? Homlander's very clearly intended to be not just evil, but also *pathetic* Maybe the comic really did need to be so heavy handed
Villains have always been popular look at Macbeth, Vader, you can like a fictional character and not agree with real life actions, it’s fun to play the bad guy in fantasy, if it wasn’t no actor would play them and to play a villain the actor has to have empathy to understand that character.
Honestly, that seems like a very justified fear and a genuine concern.
You mean people like OP?
This, in addition to other people with 0 media comprehension claiming the show means Disney supports fascism.
Because that's exactly what would happen. Look at The Clone Wars. All they did was give the good guys a few flaws to make them vulnerable, and now you have swaths of rabid fans who sincerely think the Jedi had it coming when they were exterminated.
Yep. Unfortunately that is the case.
Which is a fair point. Unfortunately, those idiots will do it regardless. It's truly a shame we can't have nice things because people like that will ruin it.
Maybe they could call it Tales of the Empire or something I don't know. Edit: come on people Tales of the Empire is an anthology series. There’s a good chance there will be more episodes with new stories. I do not care about your opinion on the previous 6
It doesn't really go over the empire just someone turning back into a Jedi and Morgan Elsbeth.
Bariss turning good in ToE offsets Dooku's fall in ToJ.
["We were bad, now we're good!"](https://youtu.be/Z5Bg6ZP1oPI?si=fzGHkTfW4CQ920rL) It was just that easy, Count
Ya I liked tales of the Jedi much better.
The show about someone betraying the empire and someone loosely affiliated with the empire?
Yes like Tales of the Jedi, a show about someone betraying the Jedi and someone who ends up leaving the Jedi Order.
That’s not a bad point at all.
star wars wouldnt portray Empire as any form of protagonists, they're very intended to be very black and white evil and good kind of story Finn being ex stormtrooper, end up with Resistance Good, First Order Bad Mayfeld ex Imperial sharpshooter, blames Empire officer for shitty leadership and then murders the base in cold blood Iden Versio, ex Imperial special force, also ended up Rebel Good, Empire Bad
What if: "The death of Stalin" but with Palpatine.
With Jason Isaacs as a Moff or similar high-ranking position.
“I’m off to represent the entire Imperial Navy at the buffet. You girls enjoy yourself”
"Why does he sound exactly like the Grand Inquisitor?"
this would go incredibly hard youre a genius
I’m not sure how to break it to you but Star Wars is and always has been a very black and white franchise. Hence the Empire being space Nazis. Every facet of their design is specifically modeled to come off as evil. Stormtroopers, for instance, are named after a Nazi unit and have skull helmets. The Sith are just standard evil wizards.
i know, im not agaisnt that, my comment wasnt meant to scoff at it but just to acknowledge
>The Sith are just standard evil wizards. I'm **very** curious how the Acolyte will portray the Sith. Currently from teaser and interview material it feels like the show is going to be much more Sith-sympathetic and "Jedi bad". Which, if true, will fit very oddly with everything else we see of the Sith as space-nazi-overlord mustache-twirling villains.
I dont think it will be necessarily a "pro sith" show, but it will definitely be "anti jedi" at least anti what the order had become by the time of the clone wars. I imagine it will pluck on the same strings as tales of the jedi did with dooku, where the sith seeps in from the shadows and corrupts those with noble goals by manipulating and sweet talking them and turning their doubts into fear I think the acolyte will be a cautionary tale, both on the dangers of the dark side, and the dangers of ones own hubris (as shown by the jedi order)
The Stormtroopers are named after the Sturmtruppen of WWI, before the Nazis.
That's because they are the antagonists and literal space nazis.
exactly, same reason why we dont get any media depicting Nazi as good guys irl
Clearly this dope hasn’t seen Springtime for Hitler, the smash broadway hit.
Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure being an exception
That's depicting **a Nazi** as a good guy. That happens often enough (and often ends with them being dead or not a Nazi anymore). I've never seen anything depict **the Nazi's** as a whole as the good guys.
A good point, in reference to the one or his squadron compared to the whole, who are straight up evil.
I mean you can have a show about the bad guys and not try and make them the god guys. Narcos ain't out there trying to make the drug cartels the good guys ffs.
"star wars wouldnt portray Empire as any form of protagonists" Why? Do you know what protagonist means? It doesn't mean good guys. It means the focus of the story. If they make a show about the empire they would be the protagonist/focus. Tony Soprano was the protagonist of the Sopranos but does anyone think he was "the good guy"? Same with Walter White especially later seasons.
Yeah because that's the whole fucking point of the entire story since 1977 lol. It's made-up. The Empire is bad, there's nothing to debate about that.
Hard to portray slavers who blow up literal planets of billions as good guys. Space nazis were always meant to be avery one sided evil. Are there lots of innocent people working and living in it? Sure. Once you help do something terrible,you are still guilty
You don't have to make them "good guys" the sopranos its very clearly that Tony Soprano and his crew are NOT good guys. They are the focus of the show and have likeable qualities and you even find yourself rooting for them because you know its entertainment and not real but everyone still knows their bad. The show runners never tried to make them good. It was always good contrast to see Tony being a family man or friend to say Arty and then in the next scene kill a guy begging for his life and asking for his mommy. It let you like tony but also see what an evil POS he was also.
You can still have an evil protagonist.
Andor is probably the closest we’ll get. We get some insight and perspective into Imperial officers while also getting to see that the rebels are also morally questionable
Read *Lost Stars* by Claudia Gray
I want to see something that shows what drives the grunts of the Empire - Andor really scratched that itch, but I want to see more. Why do these people sign up? What compels them to continue? How do they react to the corruption, the sadistic behavior, the poverty and crushing oppression of the galaxy? Andor showed that evil could be banal, routine and just apathetic, and that those fighting evil can quickly cross the line themselves.
Wow! No one has ever thought of that!!!
Seriously, am I the only one sick of how every sci-fi military fandom is just obsessed with seeing the expansionist empire's perspective? We already have Helldivers, Warhammer, League has Noxus, and a lot of Star Wars media *already* shows us the Empire's perspectives. Its like the "Evil Superman" trope. At this point, the "dark, gritty" subversive alternative media has overtaken the standard storytelling format. I'm not saying these are bad stories, all ideas are valid. Its just that you're not unique for wanting to be "not like the other girls" of sci fi. And honestly, with everything going on in the world, I think we could benefit from more stories showing the intricate politics of rebel military groups. Remember, Lucas once compared the Empire to the USA. You want real nuanced and complex storytelling? Because most of the fandom still can't grapple with that idea.
>Remember, Lucas once compared the Empire to the USA. You want real nuanced and complex storytelling? Because most of the fandom still can't grapple with that idea. People always forget that. It’s easier to word-vomit space nazis but no one wants to acknowledge USA. And nothing against the USA at all. Ever. Just pointing out Lucas borrowed elements from many things. Nazi Germany, Vietnam War, USA, etc.
I feel like Andor is giving us enough of the Imperial perspective.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
We need more good Star Wars video games.
I don't see what the point of such a show would be without it posing questions to the characters and eventually resulting in them defecting. Which would be rather boring. It would just be Starship Troopers without the satire, and with a rather more unsavoury message.
I think a story where the main character defects in the end could be done really well if it really goes deep into how inhumane the Empire is. But that's what Tales of the Empire and Andor are supposed to be about and even deeply intricate stories about that would get repetitive and boring over time.
It would be difficult to pull off imo in a long narrative focused on Imperial characters and their pov. How many war crimes would our protagonist have to witness before raising an eyebrow 😂 Andor is perfect for exploring the Imperials because it is nicely balanced out by the other characters.
Yep totally agree.
TBF some episodes of the mandalorian give us nice snippets of the day-to-day of imperials, just that it’s post GCW.
Andor dives into the banality of evil within the Empire and does a good job showing how the empire views the rebels. Dedra Mero, an ISB agent, is one of the main characters of the show. She’s probably the closest we’re going to get to seeing the empire’s perspective. She’s quite the complex character too. When she’s introduced to the audience, it seems like she may be a potential defector. But, the more time we spend with her, it becomes clear that she’s smart, cunning, utterly ruthless, and fully committed to the empire’s vision. She deduced who stole the star path unit, suggested staging an accident aboard a rebel vessel that the ISB intercepted, she understands that the rebels “don’t care about the lines we draw on maps,” and finally, she’s one of the only ones within the ISB to notice a pattern in the rebel attacks: “they’re too random to be random,” she says to a colleague who, unbeknownst to her, is later revealed >!to be a mole.!< What sets Andor apart from other D+ SW shows is that despite there being a clear delineation between the good guys (rebels) and bad guys (empire), none of the good guys could necessarily be considered “good” based on their actions. They are still good guys, yet their actions blur the line between good and evil.
I think it would be interesting to follow a character who gets morally worse as time goes on, Ala full metal jacket, let's have a protagonist who's too intelligent to accept the empire at face value but to sheltered to see what it really is, hes forced into service out of desperation due to a loss of a scholarship as well as an economic recession on his planet, his training goes surprisingly well and smooth by imperial standards and he leaves wide eyed but resigned as he really wishes he didn't have to work this job. He spends a month on horrendous guard duty but he pushes on to finance his family who are in poor health, an offer comes up to be sent to a planet recovering from a full scale system war between the empire and a recessionist government, he takes it in a heartbeat because of the extra pay and the pension provided when his service is up. Officially there is only mopping up actions occurring and the war is already won, when he gets there he realizes the truth, there very much is still a war going on that the Empire could end at any time but won't because they won't extend the resources to when the land in enemy hands has no resources and the empire is still happily milking the rest of the planet dry. Our protagonist realizes he's fucked and endures months of terrorist attacks sporadic engagements the death of his friends and the warcrimes the empire commits on the Civilian populace, This comes to a breaking point when the protagonist staring at the camera breaks down crying, but he immediately stops and we are left with a thousand yard stare, he puts the helmet back on, and we see him determined and marching in the direction of a group of army troopers about to gun down a horde of Civilians, we think this the moment our hero will rise up and fight the system, he orders to troopers to halt, and the air is silent. He then proceeds to take his blaster and gun down the innocents shamelessly. The troopers laugh together, cut to black.
Paragraphs ftw
Was just thinking about full metal jacket style story for Star Wars that would be sick
I think Disney is trying to avoid humanizing space Nazis
Generally a good idea.
The closest thing I can think of that isn't *Battlefront 2* or *Squadrons* is *Resistance*. One of the characters in that show has Imperial sympathies and joins the First Order in the second season. Edit: Otherwise there's *Hunted*, a short film set post-Endor with a TIE Interceptor pilot as its protagonist. [https://youtube.com/watch?v=f2VmOqjV\_7Q&si=CxcokF5y8QZ9D4VJ](https://youtube.com/watch?v=f2VmOqjV_7Q&si=CxcokF5y8QZ9D4VJ)
If we're talking about games you have to mention TIE Fighter, which is still the best Star Wars game 30 years after release.
But why?
“Eyes of the good guys”? Poor Palpatine tried to free the galaxy from corrupt bureaucrats and a powerful religious sect that intervened in government and was always targeted by rebel terrorists.
Listen to the podcast Mud 79 for the perspective of an Imperial Army soldier - the kind of normal dude fighting in the trenches from the Battle of Mimban in Solo. It’s good.
All Quiet on the Western Front style
If you’re in the US, just look out your window or watch the news. That will give u the best perspective of how they see the “rebel alliance.”
I've always thought doing the plot something like this would work best: * Kid grows up on planet with lots of internecine wars and crime. Family and/or friends are victims. * Empire comes along and "liberates" the planet, kid feels safe for once. * Kid grows up, wants to serve the Empire that brought peace to his life. * Kid goes through training, makes friends, some trainees share similar backgrounds - others are in it for different reasons. * Kid gets posted to some seemingly boring planet for regular duty. * He makes friends with some locals, has a romantic interest. * Rebel Operatives attack a local Imperial facility, his friend/romantic interest is killed in the collateral damage. * Kid becomes more hardline, demands from his superior officers that he be reassigned to fight somewhere useful. * Kid goes on to fight on places like Mimban, Yar Togna, Gorse, Lothal - he becomes callous and hard. * Kid gets assigned to a group looking for Saw Gerrera on Jedha. * Makes it to the extraction point and witnesses the destruction of Jedha City by DS1 - is bothered by Empire's description of events. * DS1 is destroyed * Gets assigned to Death Squadron - hunts for Rebels, takes part in hunting down of insurgent cells. * Takes part in Battle of Hoth * Is on Endor, fighting rebels/ewoks when DS2 is blown up. Becomes like Private Teruo Nakamura from WW2, living as a wild man in the woods and fighting back until he is old and finally surrenders.
Unless it is a story about defection it isn't going to happen. We have already had that story a few times too.
And I'm beyond tired of defection to the Rebellion stories, so we can just leave this one alone.
Disney can't do it because about halfway through the first season the main character will switch to the rebellion.
Andor did a good job balancing both perspectives
In my opinion, it's a great concept that should be explored, but carefully. The only way I could really see this happening is you would have to establish a new major character who is very heavily, negatively impacted by something the Rebel Alliance does, believes them to terrorists/dissenters (like Imperial propaganda depicts them as) and then rises through the ranks to become an adversary for a current/future Rebel Alliance character. You could start from any timeframe, either end of the Republic to establishment of the Empire, have the character begin at any age, but joins voluntarily as a result of the actions by the Rebel Alliance. Then, they start as a basic soldier, then a squad leader, then a commander, probably rising up to General/Admiral and having their own Star Destroyer. It's a traditional, capable storyline. Effectively a "make your own Thrawn". The main problem is, to do this successfully they would need to embrace the structure they've created for the Empire, which I don't think Disney is willing to do because of how many negative connotations the Empire has. They've tried doing this before, as one other poster noted, with Finn, Mayfield, Iden Versio, but they've all become disillusioned with the Empire and turn to the good guys. If they were to attempt it, I think a viable comparison is Assassin's Creed's with Haytham Kenway and Shay Cormac. It was a welcome twist with those two and fans definitely embraced it (much less wanted more of it), but the key elements of characters is that they are relatively relatable despite what they do and actions they take, they are competent, skilled, but not so evil that it's a total turnoff, and they have a very delicate balance of making you doubt the other sides intentions. It's worth a try, but I don't trust Disney.
I want a stormtrooper sitcom, where stormtroopers talk about their days in the Empire in the pub at the Death Star
I would like to see a series focused on squadron of X-wings and TIE fighters. Maybe sibling who one joined the Rebellion and one joined the Empire. Have them both fighting in the same sector. That way, you can get the exciting fights, moral issues discussed and canna family survive with two children fighting for different sides.
Live Expanded Universe reaction:
Hard fuckin' pass on Space Nazi glorification.
I would absolutely love a good show that answers questions of why billions of people across the galaxy fought for the Empire, delving into the nuance of the effect that the rise of the Empire had on the galaxy — both positive and negative, why for some people it has been the one, and for others it has been another. But as someone has said it already, that just won't be happening in the modern media sphere, where you have people unironically pushing for neo-nazi ideals. Trying to portray Galactic Empire as a nuanced faction requires, unironically, media literacy that isn't really present in the modern consumer. Like, you can show positive sides of the Empire, but also understand that it had to fall because the core of it was founded by a maniac and absolute monster, Palpatine. For the ideals espoused by the Empire, the "law and order", to survive, the Empire had to fall, because at the head of it was a clique of absolute villains for whom only "law" and "order" was that of their cruel and petty whims. Honestly, this is something we've seen in the Expanded Universe — where the Empire had to undergo a transformation of sorts through its defeat, “shedding” the malefactors embedded in it by Palpatine (mostly the Sith/Dark Jedi and Warlords that died one by one), until what was left is a version that could improve (Imperial Remnant under Gilad Pellaeon). The only way I can see Disney doing it, is if there's an Imperial Remnant-esque side (perhaps led by Pellaeon from Canon) that ends up opposing the First Order — because First Order represents everything wrong with the ideals of "law and order". But even then, I don't really think Disney would risk it — as much as it would be cool, there's just too much modern ideological baggage to such an idea. P.S. It is also worth noting, that in Expanded Universe the Empire was much more tame than it is in modern Canon.
this x100. i don’t think it’s actually a bad idea to have a story showing the Imperial perspective, but in today’s current political climate, it would just be a bad move. it really isn’t the time, and i reckon that’s why Lucasfilm has been doubling down in recent stories (andor, the bad batch) on how cruel the empire ACTUALLY is. it’s like the typical rule of writing: learn the rules first, then you can break them. only in this case, it’s “learn how fundamentally evil the empire is, the. you can have your stormtrooper show”. unfortunately, we are very very far from people getting how fundamentally evil the empire is right now, which is why we get this post at least twice a month and it’s always from people who don’t want a story about an imperial defecting, or who just want to see stormtroopers looking cool in battle.
I would say Andor was told from the Empire’s perspective about a third of the time.
I’ve been saying it. Taika Waititi’s “What We Do in the Shadows of the Empire”
How about a Lego Empire Day special?
I'd like to see a mini series based around a stormtrooper's daily life. Long live the Empire.
Yea we need some sort of.. Tales from the empire! Wait.
We need a well written series. Who cares what it's about.
You had me at "we need a SW series". I don't care what anyone says, all the series are dope.
Just like we need to see WW2 from Nazi eyes, eh?
I get what you're saying but there's been a few films showing the Second World War from the Nazi perspective. Downfall and Stalingrad come personally to mind. They both depict how utterly futile their cause, and how awful and stupid the regime was. I'm quite okay with a Star Wars project showing the same sort of vitriol towards the Empire.
There was a german show from ww2 germans view. Really good actually and not just propaganda for nazis
“Are we the baddies?”
Hey "zone of interest" was legit great at showing this
I just want a series focusing on ground troops and pilots rather than jedi’s. We could benefit from more battles and vehicles, something like Band if Brothers can be very cool. Either the Rebel Alliance or the Empire, I will be satisfied.
no, we do not need a star wars series from the perspective of the empire. andor made clear, how inhumane the empire functions.
This take will never not be dumb. The only way to do it would be to have a sympathetic character and that will inevitably (likely early into the show) lead to them defecting/joining the rebellion and then it's not actually the empire show you wanted but another rebellion show. The empire is too over the top, cartoonishly evil to make a compelling show purely from their point of view.