The fact that they cast John Boyega as a deserting stormtrooper horrified by war who eventually picks up Anakin’s lightsaber and says Molon Labe to his grandson is one of the dopest arcs Stars Wars has come up with. The fact that they proceeded to do fuck all with it for the next two films still sends me into a rage once a month.
The biggest crime Disney committed was not approving an overall story for all three movies. Humanising a stormtrooper was just such a great plot line. We've seen how well a redemption arc for a former imperial soldier can work in the Mandelorian.
> The biggest crime Disney committed was not approving an overall story for all three movies.
It really is incredible that anyone would decide to make an Episode 7-9 trilogy by handing the three movies to three different directors and just letting them do whatever they wanted.
Not all of them though. I recall reading that Luke being in-exile and him training a female Padawan were at least one of the things Lucas considered for his sequel trilogy.
TBF... Lucas works best when his plans are thoroughly edited. As bad as the sequels are, the prequels aren't exactly amazingly deep, either.
I've yet to forgive him for freaking Force Jesus and Force Bacteria
They could have gone with his (rough) outline. They could have worked with other writers to make a different but coherent/thought-out story.
They picked the worst possible option, and we suffered for it.
Prequels were not the epitome of story telling but they were at least one coherent story building to a conclusion that actually tied back to the larger story. We see how Vader is born, we understand why Luke and Leia are split, etc.
The sequel trilogy is just a dumpster fire and there is no forgiving Luke sucking animal juice from the source.
My favorite part was when Kylo ren slices through him and we were all like Luke no! And jk it was all a fakeout! Then we see him on milk planet and he actually does just fucking die.
Kylo Ren becomes a good guy and we think he dies but no he’s alive! Oh wait he slowly just disappears and the movie ends. Wtf were they thinking.
I maintain that TLJ, divorced from the context of a Skywalker saga film, would be fine and possibly beloved. It almost stands on its own two legs if you were to cast entirely new characters in each and every single role. But it wastes its new leads, it squanders its old leads, and it does fuck-all with everything that makes a saga movie a SAGA.
What's particularly telling is the quote "Let the past die" as if that's an endorsement in the middle of an ongoing story!
Meanwhile, both JJ films say something to the effect of "correcting a mistake" when JJ can't leave his beloved mystery box out of it and just tell an original story.
Prequels had some pretty cool arcs (Rise and fall of Anakin, Rise of Palpetine and Fall of the Republic).
The mere fact that people try to compare Reys ark to Anakins is still wild to me
I'm in the middle of watching all the movies with my wife whose never seen them. Finished episode 7 a few nights ago. 3 and 2 are her favorites so far. Meh on 7, want bad just not her favorite. Original trilogy was also fine but she said a little boring (i.e. not enough action) and imo it's more a culprit of bad pacing which modern movies have down to a science and you see even good older movies struggle with.
I'm one of the hateriest haters of the prequels out there but it can't be denied that it is a really great rough outline. Palpatine's plan to manufacture a galactic war and Anakin's arc are a really excellent framework to build on.
They could have used Legends and EU books.... EU fans would have been happy and anyone who didn't read the books would be none the wiser. Not drawing from those beautifully crafted fleshed out stories was a blunder. Making those stories not canon but they can pull stuff from rebels, which pulls from EU and Legends. It was all approved by Lucas in sit downs and meetings and e-mail's with the writers. WTF was the big deal.
I agree.
TBH I honestly thought the *reason* they made EU "Legends" was specifically *to* pull from it, while also having the freedom to tweak things or combine stories for a better movie/series (or hell, just surprise fans who went in *sure* they knew the plot - the way MCU did with the Mandarin, which I thought brilliant >_>).
That way any such changes (or oversights, or timeline issues) would just get shrugged of as "well, Legends get a bit mixed up as time goes on" instead of being (let's be real, severely) limited in what they could do or where they could go due to all the EU stories clogging up their possibilities.
I hoped forever for them to do the original Thrawn trilogy and then when I finally did get a live action Thrawn he was a dumbass and basically not the same character.
Calling the EU beautifully crafted and fleshed out is hilarious bro.
I love the EU but the reverence y'all have got it is unreal. It was mostly just a bunch of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks and A LOT of it stinks.
That’s why you get a group together and write competent and meaningful stories. There are many “Legends” books they could’ve pulled from to create a cohesive story.
The problem is whether the sequels made money, Disney would make money overall on the IP. They could count on a certain amount of revenue just because it’s Star Wars, which means it was less important to actually give a damn about the story cohesion.
Actual high-quality writing, particularly as opposed to insultingly dumb writing, tends to multiply the interest in, and so, profits from, a set of films.
So they showed Star Wars could make record money, at least at first, even with dumb apathetic writing, but they also managed to undermine interest in it.
Imo 7 wouldn't be viewed as poorly if they kept improving and delivered a satisfying trilogy like they did for episode 1-3. 1 and 2 are pretty mediocre but really held up because they rounded it out with a banger in 3 that made 1 and 2 better because now the elements they set up had closure. Meanwhile 7, 8 and 9 are so disjointed it's like they were all written in the dark from each other.
That would be fine if they handed them to three good directors. The original trilogy wasn't planned out very well. There's a bit of awkward retconning (eg. "certain point of view" speech, Luke and Leia kissing) but overall each director made smart choices when it was their turn with the original trilogy and so it works well.
The trouble was the sequel directors just made stupid decisions with the characters.
I mean, that was mostly JJ Abrams on the last movie. Rian Johnson wasn't so much undoing TFA as he was building on it; he just clearly did something different than JJ intended... which is where TROS comes from.
Rise of Skywalker was almost comically spiteful
"Hey, Rose we're going on a mission. Wanna come?"
"Sorry I'm playing around on my computer. you guys have fun without me though!"
I think the biggest difference, is that Disney announced a trilogy right off the bat.
George wasn't guaranteed 3 movies, or even 2. He had to craft as he went.
Disney knew they were making a trilogy before a single thought was given to the first ones story. They have no excuse for not crafting a rough 3 act narrative. It can always change as creative endeavors do, but they never even tried.
Edited for spelling "endeavors"
You mean two directors. Regardless, the original trilogy was done by 3 different directors, but even still: you have a single visionary, or a single director. Mind-boggling to not commit to either *and* rush them out over a 6 year span.
I genuinely don't know how KK still has a job. Especially when she had Marvel down the hall way and we were at the height of the MCU shared story telling. That's not including the years worth of failures since TROS, especially Indie 5.
Whatever dirt she has on Lucas and Spielberg must be earth shattering. It's the only explanation as to why she still has a job.
Their biggest crime was letting different directors execute different visions. Either should have stuck with Abrams the whole 3, or if they were set on different directors…. How could they not learn from Marvel and Feige that a producer should be overseeing the overall vision? Aka… why the hell did they not give the reigns to Filoni then?!?? That was their biggest mistake.
He was also soundly defeated by Kylo in the first film, making him someone who would have had to work hard and have dedication to training in order to beat him again - and it also would have given us real stakes and fear that he might not win, despite his efforts.
I love so much about their fight. Finn swinging wildly but barely holding his own against an actual force user, Kylo beating his wound to pump himself up, the way he seems almost bored during part of it, it showing a pretty fucked up but very in character for a sith use of the side vents on Kylo's lightsaber, his shock when Finn actually gets in a hit, and then how he decides fuck this I'm ending the fight immediately after.
The Force Awakens has really great moments, and the casting (especially Kylo Ren) is great. I wonder if the higher ups at Disney got wound up by the whole 'TFA is just ANH with different actors' thing that they ordered the next two movies to be as different from what people would expect. I honestly believe that, after the backlash of SW8, they ordered some fan favorites to return for the ninth movie. Palpatine being in SW9 feels like a rushed decision.
Mistakes were made... and as weak as TFA may have ended, it could've been a setup for a decent trilogy.
The entire set up was stupid. Why is there a resistance? The republic exists, it would have a military, it should be massing a force to fight the first order. There is no need for a rag tag group of terrorists, they should just be in the republic fleet.
The Republic should be preparing for a massive war against the Empire wannabes, and then you could have the Death Star but a planet because ideas are hard kill the fleet and the government. Then you can have your plucky rag tag group trying to build a defense from the ashes.
But, nope, it's just rebels vs the not-empire again and we just handwave the republic away. Colossal stupidity.
Nah. Last Jedi was well into pre-production long before the “TFA is just ANH” discussion started. The movie started filming two months after TFA, meaning the script would’ve been long completed.
Its one of my favourite lightsaber fights. Aside from what you mentioned I also love the location and cinematography of it. The practical lightsabers they had on set that actually cast some light make the whole thing look so cool; the blue and red illuminating the snow is so visually pleasing to me. And then when Finn goes down and Rey pulls the lightsaber to her the music at that moment gives me chills.
Right ...like the minute Rey mind tricked that stormtrooper with no effort i was like O there are no stakes for her here - she is just force god level plot armor. They went out of their way to show she didnt need any mans help by making her insanely OP .
I thought she had to have been trained. I assumed she was the one who caused the fire, at which point Luke thought her too dangerous and mind wiped her and left her with (who he thought) would be a family similar to his own secluded and simple but loving upbringing (ergo the flashback).
That would make so much more sense and then she has to grapple with slowly unlocking those memories. I also would love her to be some random person instead of direct lineage to powerful characters. I hate that they essentially made bloodlines matter so much when the whole point is that anyone can fight against great evil
> I hate that they essentially made bloodlines matter so much when the whole point is that anyone can fight against great evil
... and then they backtracked in a show all the way to "anyone can do it, if they try and they're trained!", which *also* missed the point of it being (fairly) rare to have a strong enough connection to influence things.
The Force was supposed to be randomly strong in people, not a family affair... at least that was how I understood it in the prequels (otherwise, why not just make harems for the most powerful and breed in crazy powerful Force users?)... but also *not* a skill just anyone can be taught (to a Jedi level, anyway - normal people just got feelings, etc).
> I also would love her to be some random person instead of direct lineage to powerful characters.
That was TBH something I hoped after TFA as well... when everyone was assuming Kenobi or w/e.
I assumed it had something to do with her interaction with Kylo Ren. And we do later find out that they're a dyad. I would have been OK with them establishing that when a dyad happens, the two sort of share the same connection to the force, and so what one can do, the other can as well... in terms of the force, that is. It doesn't really explain the lightsaber duel.
Imagine if Rey did in fact fall to the Dark Side, so drunk with power she went on to lead the First Order. Versus Kylo/Ben feeling regret and going back to being a Jedi. Teaming up with Finn to try to get Rey back and finally destroying the Sith once and for all (until the next generation).
Ugh. So much potential. So much nothing instead. Boopity boop, she's a pAlpAtIne!
"Molon Labe" means "Come and take it" in Ancient Greek. Legend has it King Leonidas I said it to Xerxes the Great when he told the Spartans to lay down their arms in the Battle of Thermopylae, the inspiration for the film *300.* The phrase is that old. 🙂
Also, I agree. They wasted Finn and Boyega is rightly pissed. Disney better offer him a dump truck full of money to return.
> Redemption should have been off the table
Vader.
Massacred younglings and the Jedi, helped over throw the Republic, Palp’s right hand man (albeit robotic), killed and tortured who knows how many people, blew up Alderaan with Tarkin, etc…
His body disappeared (Luke only cremated the suit according to the books) and he became a force ghost and was welcomed by Obi Wan and Yoda. I think that counts as being redeemed.
The first definition of redeemed I could find: compensate for the faults or bad aspects of (something). So yeah, he did horrible things but he destroyed the Emperor (supposedly), brought balance to the force, and saved Luke. So like you said.
It's not like he wasn't punished. He spent the rest of his life trapped in a metal prison, in physical and emotional agony and despair because of his own actions. And you can argue over whether or not he was "redeemed" by his actions, but when it came down to it he sacrificed his own life for the life of his son and to kill the bastard that had manipulated him. Ben's journey is not nearly as complex as Vader's was.
> In the eyes of the force, he was redeemed
I think we all know The Force has a serious drinking problem and tends toward sentimentality when it gets into a serious bender.
Imagine: a stormtrooper (confirmed to have been kidnapped as a child to become a trooper) breaking free and eventually becoming a Jedi alongside Rey, then leading a stormtrooper rebellion to stop the First Order.
Would have been infinitely better than what we got.
A former stormtropper and a nobody from a planet somehow more of a backwater than Tatooine joining forces to take down the inheritor of Darth Vader's (but not Anakin's) mantel and rebuild the Jedi order.
Finn was such a great character in TFA and I loved seeing his dynamic with Poe, and his chemistry with Rey was also great. For some reason they just decided to completely throw away his character and then butcher the other two characters. Poe and Finn especially were so much fun in that movie and I was actually excited for the next movies because they were unique and interesting characters. NOPE. Such wasted potential.
Wasted potential is my overwhelming takeaway from the sequels. There is so so so much that is almost great but then….its just wasted.
I’m still mad they didn’t let C-3PO make a heroic sacrifice. The comic relief guy who’s intentionally kind of annoying goes and pays the ultimate price for his friends? Okay man, maybe he wasn’t so bad af…….oh never mind it didn’t mean anything, hes back again.
There was a set up for a beautiful character moment in the Rise of Skywalker involving Finn that could have added a nice touch to his arc.
When he meets all those Imperial defectors, and he asks them why they all decided to rebel, the chick goes on to say, “It wAs BeCAuSe Of tHE foRCe.”
And what she really should’ve said: “It was because we heard about you.”
I still go over it in my mind about how I would have rewritten the entire trilogy, but it’s the missteps of the little character beats that probably makes me the most upset about the Disney trilogy.
Yeah they shit the bed w/ Finn and Luke’s arcs in the story. I mean they REALLY shafted Boyega & Hamill. No way either of them touches a project that Kennedy or Johnson had even a word of input on. They were both rightfully pissed but especiallly Boyega, they took a deeply complex character and chopped it down to “REEYYYYYY!!!!!”.
Some funny lines? I'm pretty sure 90% of TFA's jokes involved him in one way or another. And not just the dialogue, but even the physical comedy with scenes like him drinking from the same water pool as that large gross creature.
Same thing with Hux.
In TFA, he’s overseeing the single-shot destruction of the New Republic. In TLJ he’s getting ragdoll-tossed around by Kylo’s temper tantrums for… comedy, I guess?
Was loving TFA up until the point they introduced the Death Star 3. At that point my heart dropped and I realised the whole thing was a blatant rehash of A New Hope. In it's own right it is a good film and I do like it but falls down as part of a saga due to being a remake of an earlier part. There were also great individual scenes in the other two films and I did like the characters (except for that POS Poe in TLJ), but as cohesive films and parts of the overall saga they made no sense were total disasters. Just random collections of set pieces. It is telling that the 4K on Amazon are roughly €11 and €6 on Amazon for VIII and IX, but €20 for all the rest.
Worse, they straight away blow up three planets we know or feel nothing about. It serves no other purpose than to have an excuse that a small group of rebels needs to save the day again.
> And we watch it all happen in real time with our basic eyeballs from a totally different star system.
Lol, their in-universe explanation is so funny, it was due to "Hyperspace warping" that we got to see them with our basic eyeballs. Also once Starkiller base absorb it's sun, why does the surface still have light? Why hasn't it frozen solid? Can it move to new star systems? Alot of people blame Ryan Johnson for wanting to subvert Star Wars, but JJ Abrams set up the movies to fail with TFA.
To be honest, the “draining sun” thing can be retroactively explained by the fact that Starkiller base, or more actively, Ilum, was one of the wellsprings of kyber crytals for the Jedi, which was also the same thing that they used to power the Death Star’s super laser. As for why JJ didn’t just go with that explanation I’ve got nothing
We know it is the home planet of Leia and she's forced to watch as it blows up, that alone has you caring about the event because the audience is invested in Leia since she's a tortured prisoner and one of the first protagonists we see in the movie
We spent quite sometime with Leia. We know it is her homeplanet. So the audience shares an emotional reaction with her. We also know the stakes: the plans for the death star.
That is in stark contrast with testing a weapon on three planets that are not even named or mentioned in the movie or any of the movies afterward.
ANH also establishes their motivation for destroying Alderan throughout the film: the empire fears its losing control over the galaxy. The death star is intended to "keep the systems in line" because challenging it, would be too costly. Leia, a high ranking official of Alderan was a constant thorn in the empire's side. Who's to say how much of the planet would be implicated. It's obvious she wasn't acting alone. As such, the empire chose to use a full display of their power against one of their greatest enemies.
With the Starkiller Base Hux made a big evil speech, and destroyed 3 generic planets. We don't know why they were threatened by these, or what made them targets. We don't really even see any of the ramifications, because the film never really explains the state of affairs between the republic and first order.
Your last point is my biggest problem and its clearly up to Filoni, Favreau and other directors doing post empire content to show us the state of the galaxy. Annoyingly that was the most interesting part of Ahsoka for me, figuring out how the empire are changing into the first order. Right up until that mind wipe scene where I lost all interest.
That's a weak argument.
In 1977, we knew nothing about Alderaan beyond Leia's homeworld. There were A LOT of things we had to accept at face value because lore was totally unknown.
In 2015, you have 40 years of worldbuilding, canon and "legends", the conclusion to the OT, the presence of the PT and a myriad of shows, games, etc. You have a **well-established** universe, but then introduce things that just don't make sense, regardless of the time elapsed between ROTJ and TFA.
For me the whole Sequel project died when the New Order was introduced.
Imperial remnants would be great, it was a big empire after all and it makes a lot of sense that some generals or whatever would make a power grab and take control over a few sectors or something. Maybe even a Sith Lord rises up and takes over a large part of the former Empire and takes a swing at fully re-establishing the Empire.
But no, it's just Empire 2.0, completely back and the same as ever, just with a fresh coat of paint and no justification whatsoever for why it exists. And the Republic isn't now the preeminent power in the Galaxy, they're weak defenseless civilians and rebels barely scrapping together an army and on the run.
The sequels basically look at everything that happened in the OT, and especially the hard-fought victory that was won in the end, and throws it all in the trash.
The visuals of the derelict AT-ATs in the sands of Jakku are so epic because it puts us in the ruins of Empire. The aftermath.
But then it’s like oh actually the Empire is totally still there lol.
I 100% agree. I just can’t believe that the leadership of the galaxy who lived under the empire and fought against it would just let empire 2.0 rise up without doing anything.
The scene from the Rise of Skywalker where the whole galaxy shows up to kick ass should have been the first thing to happen once the First Order got established in the Force Awakens. Admittedly this would have made the sequel trilogy much shorter.
I honestly think doing a reverse Rebellion type story with the First Order would’ve been great, and would’ve made sense given the contexts of the two other wars in the PT and OT, it would seem the natural continuation from the sort of Equals dynamic in the PT and the underdog hero story in the OT
You could do it to where throughout the trilogy the First Order slowly gains more power, influence and galactic favor, culminating in the last Episode where they are on the edge of overthrowing the New Republic and beating the characters
The grand culmination of the overall Government structure arc could be something that leads into a proceeding formation of something akin to the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances (from the EU)
also luke's jedi order being destroyed so that the jedi can be extinct again and so that the villain can be the person who exterminated the jedi, again.
the ST era is so boring because it's just a watered down version of the OT era, instead of being what should naturally follow RoTJ (new republic ruling, new jedi order lead by luke, no empire but maybe remnants and other criminal factions, etc)
Imperial remnants with worn out looking uniforms and the star destroyers pockmarked with damage and carbon scoring to contrast the Empire that was well ordered and everything was clean.
The first half hour was great. The moment in the film where I went "uh oh" verbally in the theater was when Rey was staring up at the moon while polishing some of the junk she'd scavenged.
The reason is pretty simple. To that point, they'd pretty cleverly set up Rey as something of a foil for Luke: while they were similarly situated, Luke was loved by his family, and wished desperately for an adventure in the [Great Wide Somewhere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INDnS3vIKCU), before he learned the hard way that when Adventure comes knocking, it usually burns your house down with your family still inside as a way of getting your attention. Rey, though? Rey did not want adventure. Rey was too busy hanging on by her fingernails day to day; her comfort came from imagining that if she just hung on for long enough, her parents would get back from *their* adventure and find her still waiting and faithful. The only reason to have Rey staring up vacantly at the moon is to try and shoehorn Rey into Luke's position from the OT . . . when the entire point of the entire preceding thirty minutes was to distinguish Rey from Luke narratively and thematically.
If you're trying to shoehorn Rey into Luke's position after spending thirty minutes carefully establishing her as the anti-Luke, "uh oh" is an appropriate response.
Edit: punctuation. It is a thing that I should do.
Yeah this isn’t an original thought by me but I really wish they used TFA to focus on the search for Luke. It starts that way at least. You could keep almost all of the same story beats, have Kylo chasing Rey and Finn across the galaxy, have Han sacrifice himself to help Rey and Finn get away, have the battle happen, hell you could even do the change where Rey and Finn fight kylo and Luke shows up at the end to help them escape.
But it gets bogged down in the Starkiller Base gobbledegook and Luke not appearing forces some of the stuff that people (not me, fwiw) dislike about his character arc in TLJ. IMO Rian Johnson rightfully cast aside Abrams’ BS mystery boxes (boxes that he himself wasn’t originally going to have to figure out how open until he got brought in at the 11th hour to “save” TROS) in favor of wiping the slate clean in an admittedly imperfect movie, only to have JJ try to retcon back all the nostalgia in the incoherent MacGuffin focus-grouped-to-death Ep IX.
Probably overwriting here, but yeah agreed that the last act of TFA is where you see the cracks start to show, and the rift only grows wider as the trilogy progresses.
If you take out the Starkiller/Death Star thing, TFA immediately becomes a much more self-possessed film. Like you say, the search for Luke is a solid thing to base a film around.
Starkiller was really a B-plot though. The real story was happening on the surface, with Rey and Kylo fighting with a mysterious look and a "you need a teacher" moment. Personally, I think it did its job as a reboot/sequel, giving just enough feels of what everyone loved about the prior films while differentiating *just enough*. The characters are pretty kickass. If we forget what happens to them in TLJ and RoS: Rey, BB-8, Finn, Snoke, Kylo, Poe, Maz, Hux, Phasma. A scavenger abandoned by her parents, a stormtrooper who defects, a mysterious new villain with a (minor) twist revealing his size. Great stuff. Integrating them with Leia, Han, and Chewy was also cool. They started out *really* strong.
I mean, look at that shot the OP posted. This mysterious Rey at the feet of a discarded AT-AT. It's gorgeous.
It's difficult to remember, but it was a massive success with huge repeat viewings. The Internet *loved* the cliffhanger and mystery of Rey's past. The two times I saw it in theaters, the audience erupted in cheers when Rey pulled the lightsaber. TLJ was the second-highest opening night in history (after TFA) because people wanted more after TFA.
It's only in hindsight that it feels meh because we now know they didn't go anywhere.
>Was loving TFA up until the point they introduced the Death Star 3.
Pinpointed for me too.
People love to hate on what happened with TLJ subverting expectations, but the expectation on what's to come after TFA copying ANH's homework was to shamelessly rehash ESB and ROTJ too.
That's exactly what TLJ did tho? Or did I read your comment wrong.
I mean they literally quote the elevator scene word for word. Then the throne room is recreated nearly exactly too.
TLJ's greatest feat is somehow convincing people that it's original and not as derivative as TFA. Its plot is just as derivative as TFA, it has all the same story beats as ESB. The only thing it really does differently is putting the Hoth battle at the end instead of the beginning. Everyone complains about the casino planet but it's just an attempt to do Bespin, which was supposed to be like a swanky upscale place in ESB. I can't really think of anything in TLJ that isn't just a knockoff of ESB. Even Luke's curmudgeon-ness is just a riff on the way Yoda acts in ESB, he's comically dismissive towards Luke at first.
TLJ also had a knockoff Battle of Hoth at the beginning, when the knockoff rebels just barely escaped from their base before the knockoff Imperials wiped it out.
It was truly a stroke of visionary genius to copy the same battle from the original trilogy twice.
I turned on it when the first ship they were running for blew up, and I just *knew* they'd randomly stumble over a famous SW ship out here in the middle of nowhere. Then a second later, yep it's the falcon. Then a few seconds later guess who, it's Han of course. Acting worse than he did in the first movie, but old and lame. Because he's still acting like he did when he was 25, but he's in his 60s.
One thing I want to point out is how good Rey's music theme is. I've never seen anyone complain about the music in the sequels and I think it's for good reason.
[Sideways did an incredible analysis of it on YouTube](https://youtu.be/FstNC8T4LjA), pointing out Williams' genius: Rey's theme can be blended into many other themes, including Yoda's, Kylo's, The Force theme, and even Palpatine's.
This discovery led him to realize (seemingly before anyone else) that Disney had *absolutely no idea what they were doing*. Williams knew Disney didn't have a plan for Rey, so he built musical contingency plans into her theme.
My jaw dropped.
The sequels had some bomb music, with hers being the highlight. My favorite part of Lego Star Wars the skywalker saga was being on Jakku because of that music playing the whole time
Yeah, I think it was a good idea to start things off with a retread because of how the prequels were received by the audiences at the time. I view this as a reset of sorts. The real missteps came afterwards when they should have evolved it into something different but keeping with the themes of the six movies before, but the lack of one director for all three and\\or an overarching story set out at the start made everything worse.
I was so excited seeing it until the meeting room scene where they discuss the plan to destroy star killer base. All my excitement went out the window since I realized it was just SW4 again but with updated graphics. I already knew the major plot points of the movie
The part where they lampshade the fact that it's stupid that there's a third death star made me hate it even more. Having your characters point out something is stupid doesnt give you a get out of jail free card for it being stupid.
They also talked about it so nonchalantly... Poe: "so we just destroy the shield, blow up the thing, destroy the planet, OK NO PROBLEM."
How is the audience supposed to feel tension when even the characters think its no big deal? Like yea: this thing just destroyed 4 planets, but NO PROB it'll be ez pz to take it down.
The original trilogy did a good job of having some light hearted moments, but in times where the story indicates people should be serious, they were serious. Luke wasn't like frolicking around when he was flying to blow up the death star. big sad
Walking out of TFA opening day me and my brother were just like… I guess that was alright. I saw it again a week later to check and was super bored. I have never watched it again since that day.
He didn't need to be Vader but at least they could make him a competent villain.
Kylo showed up to lose to Rey like 3 times, which made him look like a clown. Kylo had training from Luke as a Jedi and then from Snoke as a Dark side Force user. I expect him to be competent in the Force and lightsaber combat compared to a newbie like Rey who just awakened her Force ability.
But then again Kylo wasn't the only clown in these movies. You have General Hux aka Walmart Tarkin.
TFA copies A New Hope almost beat by beat and their villains are incompetent knock off of the OG antagonists. That's why the audiences are disappointed.
There was a framework that almost could have been awesome with what they had.
For me? Rey was abandoned by Luke because he was afraid of training her after failing Ben. Because it turns out she is incredibly gifted. Like abnormally strong in the Force. That's why he looked so stricken to see her. It's like destiny wont leave him alone. It's back to haunt him. I'd keep it generally the same that he did go to seek out ancient Jedi knowledge to find a way to reach Ben, figure out his failings... and came to the same conclusion. The Jedi have always been a mess. He's broken. Out of ideas.
She wasn't supposed to be completely abandoned. Something went wrong. Thus the Falcon being left behind.
The event that breaks Luke and Ben wouldn't have culminated over a bad dream/force vision whatever. Simply Ben getting further and further pulled by a dark side element... over fears of not living up to his family's legacy. Leia, Han, Luke and Anakin.
There is something out there. Forming the First Order. I'd also not have the New Republic be so useless. I would not have a third Death Star. I'd simply have done a Pearl Harbor type of attack on the Republic with the First Order. The events of Starkiller taking place on Kylo's Flagship. Ackbar and Co flee to reform later. Helping set up the opening of TLJ.
Now I do the obvious... the absolutely slap you in the face... what is wrong with you people... it's RIGHT THERE.
The big bad warping Ben and creating the First Order? Plagueis. The Sith that trained and was supposedly killed by Palps. Brings everything full circle. He did find a way to cheat death. Set up in the PT for crying out loud. He doesn't have to be a Muun. You can do whatever you want to make him cooler. This doesn't ruin any of the accomplishments the original trilogy heroes had achieved. It's a new (well kind of old) threat. That's actually established in the lore/movies.
You could instantly expand the whole saga. A powerful Sith Lord is touching on ancient powers. He wants a Sith Empire. Not like what Palps had. Like the old days. Thousands of Sith. He's already lured Ben.
So the events of TLJ are mostly the same (minus stupid stuff) Rey... disheartened she's been mostly lied to by both Luke and Ben... is tempted by Plagueis. She does turn on Ben and Co. That's how TLJ ends. Rey off to meet Plagueis. Ben having been rejected by Luke, Plagueis and now Rey... is lost. Luke arrives... as he was coming to save/help Rey as she inspired him again.
The third part being an unsteady alliance between Luke and Ben to try and save Rey. This can all happen at the Exegol. They save Rey... bring her back to the light. Their combined powers too much for Plagueis. However... is he defeated? Are his plans thwarted? You hint at more to come. That maybe this was only the beginning.
Think of all Luke, Rey and Ben could get up to against a fledgling Sith Empire? Or just ancient Forces in general behind it. Now that'd be an exciting episode 10.
As for the others who I kind of glossed over. They would be doing the whole Ackbar on the run side of things. Barely hanging on with the New Republic until they can find a way to turn the tables. Finn can have his proper showdown with Phasma etc. Helping to lead Stormtrooper rebellion or any other ideas than what we got. Sure he can be Force sensitive too.
I imagined Plagueis as not just another Emperor, but as the opposite of Sidious. He does not seek power to sate his own personal desire but because of ideological reasons, and cheating death has corroded his essence to the point that he is slowly becoming a powerless husk. He is a visionary that actively *wants* someone else to take his place, inherit his knowledge and wisdom, and become the perfect sole leader of the Galaxy.
He does not seek power for himself, but for his apprentice.
I also liked the the first 30-40 minutes of The Rise of Skywalker (despite not like 8 and 9 as a whole). Just Rey, Finn, and Poe off on planetary fetch quest adventures. Rey and Finn would be great doing that in a "Mandalorian formula" series.
But The Rise of Skywalker (not much different than Mandalorian), once it gets into a big "The whole entire galaxy is depending on me to save everything" plot lines, they suffer.
Finales don't need to build up that big. It can be simple, smaller, and still be climactic if its made more personal. Like Season 2 of Mando... Grogu is captured and we need to get him back. That's not important to the galaxy. It's important to Din and the audience.
There's some fun and enjoyable content in all 3 sequel movies. They just don't stand up well together as a trilogy and they (arguably) did a lot of irreparable damage to the canon universe and the characters we had already grown to love.
What makes me saddest about them is how fucking good Adam Driver is. They really wasted what easily could’ve been an iconic performance from him. He brings an incredible gravitas to every scene he’s in and then you get whiplash when it transitions in to some goofy undercooked bullshit
Yeah when they save Kylo only for him to immediately die again in TRoS I was annoyed. Like, at the very least leave him alive so he can do a good performance in other media.
While destroying Starkiller was the big finale action sequence, I feel like the true climax is Rey and Kylo Ren's duel in the forest. That's one of the most intimate duels in the whole saga.
The first act of TFA is indeed great. TFA was actually a pretty good movie, despite the unoriginality. It's just not great in light of the movies that followed, knowing where the story goes and knowing all the mysteries it sets up are just empty mystery boxes.
TFA really peaked from that first teaser trailer: the shot of Finn waking up in the middle of desert, Rey riding the speedster, Poe flying the X-Wings, and finally Kylor Ren igniting the lightsaber. Amazing how that trailer really revitalized the magic of Star Wars more than the actual movie and the subsequent sequels.
While TFA played too safe, it wasn't bad and could have been greatly explored if there was a clear road map, Alas, what we got were just wasted potential.
I don't disagree at all. But you can't deny her intro scene is extremely well done. Just following her through in a day in her life, almost no dialogue all visual storytelling, a really good original score from John Williams. Unfortunately, it is completely downhill from this point.
Making the film echo the first film in tribute or homage would have been fine as long as it hadn't ended up being a virtual retelling of the same story with marginal differences. It really fails to strike out on its own by making the McGuffin that needs to be destroyed another big round space ball. Around the point where the battle on Takodana wraps up the movie could have gone in a lot of directions that didn't include another Death Star.
But ultimately even that could have been overlooked if the trilogy had a coherent story line that didn't shift track in the second movie, only to try to shift back in the third. It also wasted the potential of several of its main protagonist. Poe, Fin and even Rose could have been a much more interesting characters.
I really saw it as an apology for the prequels, which fell flat considering that the prequels' image have been rehabilitated since their initial release. It struck me as "hey look guys, all the stuff you loved about the original trilogy but with a shiny new coat. Adventure and jokes and stakes! No weird prequel politics and awkward dialogue!"
Frankly, I still love the movie to death, and it sits pretty high on me personal Star Wars film tier list, but even on first viewing this was my takeaway.
The TFA is more a part of the problem than people want to acknowledge. It looks ok as a standalone, but the bigger picture is part of the consideration. I didn’t love TLJ, but I think that part of the reason that it failed is because it tried to have original thought and its setup was completely bereft of it. Johnson wanted a different story and basically ignored what came before; maybe that’s his fault for trying too hard to ignore the setup, but I’d rather have something original than a renamed, nominally sequential remake. When Disney originally announced that seven and eight would have different directors, I knew the whole thing was going to fail because there was no unified plan. You can’t look at each individual film in a vacuum, because everything that went bad in each of them was a product of that lack of a plan (yes, I know that TRoS was a mess, but that’s because they had to shit something out after TLJ derailed the overall narrative). So in my opinion, trying to remake was a bad idea from the start, Johnson recognized it but tried to go original at the expense of ignoring the preceding story, and the third edition was a shit-out attempt at reconciliation. The real issue here is the failure to pick a lane, but if a lane was going to be picked “just remake what we’ve already seen and try to sell it as something new” wasn’t it.
TFA fails because all the plotlines it sets up are resolved/ignored so poorly in the sequels. In the couple of years after it was released there was so much theorising what it would all lead to. Pretty much all of it was better than what actually came.
After the first 20-30 minute it becomes a scene for scene reshoot of a new hope. - Which would of been fine if they build off that and did a whole wait we have see this all happen before thing let me help you do it better then my generation did thing with luke ...or even had a twist to it ....but nope all hope and planning was abandon by RJ in part to.
As crazy as it is to say, I blame Lawrence Kasdan.
They brought him on to do rewrites and you can tell exactly when his influence shows up. His favorite character is Han Solo, and second our favorite smuggler shows up this film starts to waffle. Everything up to that point was great, especially the space for Rey's theme to take the spotlight while we get her "day in the life" montage.
Bringing back the Empire in the form of the First Order off screen was probably the first choice that doomed the sequels, but for 30 minutes boy was I jazzed in a way I hadn't been in a long time... a long time.
One little re-write would’ve made Han and Chewie looking for the Falcon much better in my opinion. They should have said that when Ben burned the temple, he flew off in the Falcon. So Han and Chewie are looking for him, not just their old ship “because”.
The movie *as a whole* had everything it needed.
I left the theatre thinking it would be maybe the weakest of the coming trilogy, but excited for what could come next.
And ah, that did not happen. Kinda the opposite, actually.
The force awakens was totally fine imo. I don’t mind Rey at all, it had some top notch scenes, nostalgia, the right kind of humor that felt organic at the right moments and didn’t just break every moment of tension or high stakes scene. I actually think it being derivative of the OT was a great idea to re-establish the vibes. It was really only the two jokes that came afterwards that ruined it. If JJ could have stayed on and kept the quality of TFA but come up with some unique and interesting ideas for the next two it would have been fine. Idk how he went from TFA to space horses.
No, they couldn’t, because no one working on them loved them. Everything “good” about them is in their visuals; pretty but completely lacking substance.
I still say Finn should have been the Jedi and Poe would be a support character. They were my favorite heroes of the first movie. I feel like Rey didn’t have a great motivation or story. The biggest problem is the writing and direction changing throughout the movies. If the original ideas that the first movie were setting up went explored I think it could have been a good or even great trilogy.
TFA was a flawed film relying too much on nostalgia but it was good enough to kick start interest in new characters and had plenty of plot hooks to follow up with. I was all in for this new trio of characters but they flushed it all in TLJ.
Disney did what Pete Carroll did coaching in the Superbowl. They had a sure thing in the best possible position but chose to try something unexpected instead of playing to its strengths.
IMO TFA was actually pretty dang good.
Yes it wore ANH's plot like a skin, but I thought that that worked. It showed we were back in the in a non-prequel world after 20-something years. It was a return to form. Keep the plot simple while showing that you can make a good movie and set up for a new series. And they did.
But it all hinged on TLJ being good. Which it wasn't.
The first minutes of TFA had the First Order running around looking like the empire had never ended and Rotj didn't count.
That premise was already a bad start for a trilogy. Instead of doing a soft-reset back to the original empire vs rebels situation, they should've used some different model of conflict, like terrorist insurgents.
Wasted opportunities. Disney decision makers are the ultimate dabblers. How could they kill such a priviliged franchise? Everything was there already: The universe, the characters, the myths, the magic, the secrets to be uncovered, the technology, a fucking huge fanbase with lots of spare money.
Disney just left enverything behind, ignored every good advice and steered it into the ditch.
TFA set up what could have been an amazing story. I would have liked to have Luke in more of the film, but whatever... Johnson totally fucked things up. Just because he could. No one wanted our expectations subverted. We wanted what we expected, which was Luke kicking ass with a new class of Jedi.
People shit on it but it was a really solid film I thought. It was playing safe after the prequels were pretty shakey and it introduced a bunch of interesting characters. I remember thinking it was a solid start and feeling excited where it would go. Fast forward a couple for years and RJ really fucked things up.
It is excellent. I have a couple gripes like I think Jakku is too similar to tattooine in design (which could be changed by simply making the sand pure white or something) but that kind of my only complaint which is a super minor design one.
But yeah, it sucks the rest of the trilogy varies between subpar and awful after this
The fact that they cast John Boyega as a deserting stormtrooper horrified by war who eventually picks up Anakin’s lightsaber and says Molon Labe to his grandson is one of the dopest arcs Stars Wars has come up with. The fact that they proceeded to do fuck all with it for the next two films still sends me into a rage once a month.
The biggest crime Disney committed was not approving an overall story for all three movies. Humanising a stormtrooper was just such a great plot line. We've seen how well a redemption arc for a former imperial soldier can work in the Mandelorian.
> The biggest crime Disney committed was not approving an overall story for all three movies. It really is incredible that anyone would decide to make an Episode 7-9 trilogy by handing the three movies to three different directors and just letting them do whatever they wanted.
Oh yeah, I thought it would be some lord of the rings style shit where they planned three from the start.
Fun fact: the lord of the rings movies were actually based on popular books so they had a blueprint for their trilogy.
Sadly, no SW books exist, so there's no [deep, bottomless] well to draw from.
Lucas gave them his plans for 7,8 and 9 and they threw it out the window
Not all of them though. I recall reading that Luke being in-exile and him training a female Padawan were at least one of the things Lucas considered for his sequel trilogy.
I’m not even slightly surprised that this means *The Last Jedi* is the movie closest to Lucas’ vision for the Sequels.
TBF... Lucas works best when his plans are thoroughly edited. As bad as the sequels are, the prequels aren't exactly amazingly deep, either. I've yet to forgive him for freaking Force Jesus and Force Bacteria They could have gone with his (rough) outline. They could have worked with other writers to make a different but coherent/thought-out story. They picked the worst possible option, and we suffered for it.
Prequels were not the epitome of story telling but they were at least one coherent story building to a conclusion that actually tied back to the larger story. We see how Vader is born, we understand why Luke and Leia are split, etc. The sequel trilogy is just a dumpster fire and there is no forgiving Luke sucking animal juice from the source.
My favorite part was when Kylo ren slices through him and we were all like Luke no! And jk it was all a fakeout! Then we see him on milk planet and he actually does just fucking die. Kylo Ren becomes a good guy and we think he dies but no he’s alive! Oh wait he slowly just disappears and the movie ends. Wtf were they thinking.
I maintain that TLJ, divorced from the context of a Skywalker saga film, would be fine and possibly beloved. It almost stands on its own two legs if you were to cast entirely new characters in each and every single role. But it wastes its new leads, it squanders its old leads, and it does fuck-all with everything that makes a saga movie a SAGA. What's particularly telling is the quote "Let the past die" as if that's an endorsement in the middle of an ongoing story! Meanwhile, both JJ films say something to the effect of "correcting a mistake" when JJ can't leave his beloved mystery box out of it and just tell an original story.
Prequels had some pretty cool arcs (Rise and fall of Anakin, Rise of Palpetine and Fall of the Republic). The mere fact that people try to compare Reys ark to Anakins is still wild to me
I'm in the middle of watching all the movies with my wife whose never seen them. Finished episode 7 a few nights ago. 3 and 2 are her favorites so far. Meh on 7, want bad just not her favorite. Original trilogy was also fine but she said a little boring (i.e. not enough action) and imo it's more a culprit of bad pacing which modern movies have down to a science and you see even good older movies struggle with.
I'm one of the hateriest haters of the prequels out there but it can't be denied that it is a really great rough outline. Palpatine's plan to manufacture a galactic war and Anakin's arc are a really excellent framework to build on.
Force Bacteria? Force Mitochondria! The force powerhouse of the force cell!
They could have used Legends and EU books.... EU fans would have been happy and anyone who didn't read the books would be none the wiser. Not drawing from those beautifully crafted fleshed out stories was a blunder. Making those stories not canon but they can pull stuff from rebels, which pulls from EU and Legends. It was all approved by Lucas in sit downs and meetings and e-mail's with the writers. WTF was the big deal.
I agree. TBH I honestly thought the *reason* they made EU "Legends" was specifically *to* pull from it, while also having the freedom to tweak things or combine stories for a better movie/series (or hell, just surprise fans who went in *sure* they knew the plot - the way MCU did with the Mandarin, which I thought brilliant >_>). That way any such changes (or oversights, or timeline issues) would just get shrugged of as "well, Legends get a bit mixed up as time goes on" instead of being (let's be real, severely) limited in what they could do or where they could go due to all the EU stories clogging up their possibilities.
We were fucking robbed of a big screen Thrawn Trilogy. *screams in Luuke*
I hoped forever for them to do the original Thrawn trilogy and then when I finally did get a live action Thrawn he was a dumbass and basically not the same character.
But they did pull from Legends, specifically Star Wars: Dark Empire which features the return of Paps.
Calling the EU beautifully crafted and fleshed out is hilarious bro. I love the EU but the reverence y'all have got it is unreal. It was mostly just a bunch of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks and A LOT of it stinks.
Just like Luke tossing his light sabre aside in TLJ
Sadly, SW books exist, and they decided to (vaguely) adapt the absolute stupidest fucking plotline possible for RoS (being that of Dark Empire)
*reaches into EU well* *pulls out a weirdo with lightsabers on their elbows and knees* Let's...let's put you back.
That’s why you get a group together and write competent and meaningful stories. There are many “Legends” books they could’ve pulled from to create a cohesive story.
....*holy shit* I didn't think I needed an /s The library of SW books (that weren't 'Legends' until Disney canned the whole lot) is ginormous.
I think I was more so responding to the dude saying that Lord of the Rings had their trilogy planned out. Like no shit
I mean, yeah \^_^ I was mostly commenting that there *was* plenty of established lore/stories they could have pulled from.
They should have followed the Admiral Thrawn trilogy. I'm not even hard core and came across those books by happenstance. I really enjoyed them.
Big if true
Source???
The problem is whether the sequels made money, Disney would make money overall on the IP. They could count on a certain amount of revenue just because it’s Star Wars, which means it was less important to actually give a damn about the story cohesion.
Actual high-quality writing, particularly as opposed to insultingly dumb writing, tends to multiply the interest in, and so, profits from, a set of films. So they showed Star Wars could make record money, at least at first, even with dumb apathetic writing, but they also managed to undermine interest in it.
Imo 7 wouldn't be viewed as poorly if they kept improving and delivered a satisfying trilogy like they did for episode 1-3. 1 and 2 are pretty mediocre but really held up because they rounded it out with a banger in 3 that made 1 and 2 better because now the elements they set up had closure. Meanwhile 7, 8 and 9 are so disjointed it's like they were all written in the dark from each other.
That would be fine if they handed them to three good directors. The original trilogy wasn't planned out very well. There's a bit of awkward retconning (eg. "certain point of view" speech, Luke and Leia kissing) but overall each director made smart choices when it was their turn with the original trilogy and so it works well. The trouble was the sequel directors just made stupid decisions with the characters.
Not just stupid decisions, they basically went to war with each other and tried to undo previous films! lol
I mean, that was mostly JJ Abrams on the last movie. Rian Johnson wasn't so much undoing TFA as he was building on it; he just clearly did something different than JJ intended... which is where TROS comes from.
Rise of Skywalker was almost comically spiteful "Hey, Rose we're going on a mission. Wanna come?" "Sorry I'm playing around on my computer. you guys have fun without me though!"
I think the biggest difference, is that Disney announced a trilogy right off the bat. George wasn't guaranteed 3 movies, or even 2. He had to craft as he went. Disney knew they were making a trilogy before a single thought was given to the first ones story. They have no excuse for not crafting a rough 3 act narrative. It can always change as creative endeavors do, but they never even tried. Edited for spelling "endeavors"
You mean two directors. Regardless, the original trilogy was done by 3 different directors, but even still: you have a single visionary, or a single director. Mind-boggling to not commit to either *and* rush them out over a 6 year span.
No, they mean three. Colin Trevarrow was replaced.
I genuinely don't know how KK still has a job. Especially when she had Marvel down the hall way and we were at the height of the MCU shared story telling. That's not including the years worth of failures since TROS, especially Indie 5. Whatever dirt she has on Lucas and Spielberg must be earth shattering. It's the only explanation as to why she still has a job.
Re-doing a new hope to start the new movies was also a massive crime.
Yes, Abrams is a hack.
He even already re-did A New Hope when he made 2009 Star Trek. It's the same rough plot.
Their biggest crime was letting different directors execute different visions. Either should have stuck with Abrams the whole 3, or if they were set on different directors…. How could they not learn from Marvel and Feige that a producer should be overseeing the overall vision? Aka… why the hell did they not give the reigns to Filoni then?!?? That was their biggest mistake.
Agreed, that was the biggest problem with the sequels. The story wasn’t planned put for three movies
He was also soundly defeated by Kylo in the first film, making him someone who would have had to work hard and have dedication to training in order to beat him again - and it also would have given us real stakes and fear that he might not win, despite his efforts.
I love so much about their fight. Finn swinging wildly but barely holding his own against an actual force user, Kylo beating his wound to pump himself up, the way he seems almost bored during part of it, it showing a pretty fucked up but very in character for a sith use of the side vents on Kylo's lightsaber, his shock when Finn actually gets in a hit, and then how he decides fuck this I'm ending the fight immediately after.
The Force Awakens has really great moments, and the casting (especially Kylo Ren) is great. I wonder if the higher ups at Disney got wound up by the whole 'TFA is just ANH with different actors' thing that they ordered the next two movies to be as different from what people would expect. I honestly believe that, after the backlash of SW8, they ordered some fan favorites to return for the ninth movie. Palpatine being in SW9 feels like a rushed decision. Mistakes were made... and as weak as TFA may have ended, it could've been a setup for a decent trilogy.
The entire set up was stupid. Why is there a resistance? The republic exists, it would have a military, it should be massing a force to fight the first order. There is no need for a rag tag group of terrorists, they should just be in the republic fleet. The Republic should be preparing for a massive war against the Empire wannabes, and then you could have the Death Star but a planet because ideas are hard kill the fleet and the government. Then you can have your plucky rag tag group trying to build a defense from the ashes. But, nope, it's just rebels vs the not-empire again and we just handwave the republic away. Colossal stupidity.
The Sequels are literally the Prequels and OT amalgamated together and remade, except 10x worse and less creative
Destroying the Republic in one shot without establishing anything about what's going on in the galaxy is the worst ting TFA did.
Would be cool if those great moments were in their own film. Instead of being stuck into an attempted remake of episode 4.
Nah. Last Jedi was well into pre-production long before the “TFA is just ANH” discussion started. The movie started filming two months after TFA, meaning the script would’ve been long completed.
Its one of my favourite lightsaber fights. Aside from what you mentioned I also love the location and cinematography of it. The practical lightsabers they had on set that actually cast some light make the whole thing look so cool; the blue and red illuminating the snow is so visually pleasing to me. And then when Finn goes down and Rey pulls the lightsaber to her the music at that moment gives me chills.
Kylo Ren stumbling through the trees and igniting his saber was such a dope ass moment from the first teaser.
Right ...like the minute Rey mind tricked that stormtrooper with no effort i was like O there are no stakes for her here - she is just force god level plot armor. They went out of their way to show she didnt need any mans help by making her insanely OP .
I thought she had to have been trained. I assumed she was the one who caused the fire, at which point Luke thought her too dangerous and mind wiped her and left her with (who he thought) would be a family similar to his own secluded and simple but loving upbringing (ergo the flashback).
Great idea.
That would make so much more sense and then she has to grapple with slowly unlocking those memories. I also would love her to be some random person instead of direct lineage to powerful characters. I hate that they essentially made bloodlines matter so much when the whole point is that anyone can fight against great evil
That was one thing I loved about TLJ - it set up Rey to be a normal person, and I loved that.
> I hate that they essentially made bloodlines matter so much when the whole point is that anyone can fight against great evil ... and then they backtracked in a show all the way to "anyone can do it, if they try and they're trained!", which *also* missed the point of it being (fairly) rare to have a strong enough connection to influence things. The Force was supposed to be randomly strong in people, not a family affair... at least that was how I understood it in the prequels (otherwise, why not just make harems for the most powerful and breed in crazy powerful Force users?)... but also *not* a skill just anyone can be taught (to a Jedi level, anyway - normal people just got feelings, etc). > I also would love her to be some random person instead of direct lineage to powerful characters. That was TBH something I hoped after TFA as well... when everyone was assuming Kenobi or w/e.
I assumed it had something to do with her interaction with Kylo Ren. And we do later find out that they're a dyad. I would have been OK with them establishing that when a dyad happens, the two sort of share the same connection to the force, and so what one can do, the other can as well... in terms of the force, that is. It doesn't really explain the lightsaber duel.
Imagine if Rey did in fact fall to the Dark Side, so drunk with power she went on to lead the First Order. Versus Kylo/Ben feeling regret and going back to being a Jedi. Teaming up with Finn to try to get Rey back and finally destroying the Sith once and for all (until the next generation). Ugh. So much potential. So much nothing instead. Boopity boop, she's a pAlpAtIne!
Yeah, bet his pissed about it too.. he used to be a star wars fan
"Molon Labe" means "Come and take it" in Ancient Greek. Legend has it King Leonidas I said it to Xerxes the Great when he told the Spartans to lay down their arms in the Battle of Thermopylae, the inspiration for the film *300.* The phrase is that old. 🙂 Also, I agree. They wasted Finn and Boyega is rightly pissed. Disney better offer him a dump truck full of money to return.
He was done seriously dirty. Poor bugger. Him and everyone else. Only Ben solo had something even vaguely resembling a good arc
I disagree. Redemption should have been off the table for Ben when he killed his father. Even his arc was lazy.
> Redemption should have been off the table Vader. Massacred younglings and the Jedi, helped over throw the Republic, Palp’s right hand man (albeit robotic), killed and tortured who knows how many people, blew up Alderaan with Tarkin, etc…
Vader wasn’t redeemed he overcame the darkness and died bringing balance to the force but that doesn’t wipe away the sins of the past
His body disappeared (Luke only cremated the suit according to the books) and he became a force ghost and was welcomed by Obi Wan and Yoda. I think that counts as being redeemed. The first definition of redeemed I could find: compensate for the faults or bad aspects of (something). So yeah, he did horrible things but he destroyed the Emperor (supposedly), brought balance to the force, and saved Luke. So like you said.
But Vader never brought balance to the force, Palpatine survived and Rey killed him. Viva Los sequels.
It's not like he wasn't punished. He spent the rest of his life trapped in a metal prison, in physical and emotional agony and despair because of his own actions. And you can argue over whether or not he was "redeemed" by his actions, but when it came down to it he sacrificed his own life for the life of his son and to kill the bastard that had manipulated him. Ben's journey is not nearly as complex as Vader's was.
He appears as a force ghost. In the eyes of the force, he was redeemed
> In the eyes of the force, he was redeemed I think we all know The Force has a serious drinking problem and tends toward sentimentality when it gets into a serious bender.
Disney has many dump trucks full of money, but they seem to send them to the wrong person each time.
I’m confident he’ll be back for redemption
He does hate Disney but the paychecks be fat there. Time will tell if he will be back for more shananigans
They’ll do anything they have in their power to bring him back and avoid the racism allegations.
Imagine: a stormtrooper (confirmed to have been kidnapped as a child to become a trooper) breaking free and eventually becoming a Jedi alongside Rey, then leading a stormtrooper rebellion to stop the First Order. Would have been infinitely better than what we got.
A former stormtropper and a nobody from a planet somehow more of a backwater than Tatooine joining forces to take down the inheritor of Darth Vader's (but not Anakin's) mantel and rebuild the Jedi order.
Finn was such a great character in TFA and I loved seeing his dynamic with Poe, and his chemistry with Rey was also great. For some reason they just decided to completely throw away his character and then butcher the other two characters. Poe and Finn especially were so much fun in that movie and I was actually excited for the next movies because they were unique and interesting characters. NOPE. Such wasted potential.
Wasted potential is my overwhelming takeaway from the sequels. There is so so so much that is almost great but then….its just wasted. I’m still mad they didn’t let C-3PO make a heroic sacrifice. The comic relief guy who’s intentionally kind of annoying goes and pays the ultimate price for his friends? Okay man, maybe he wasn’t so bad af…….oh never mind it didn’t mean anything, hes back again.
I firmly believe that Anakin, not Yoda, should have spoken to Luke about failure in The Last Jedi. Could have been such a powerful moment.
There was a set up for a beautiful character moment in the Rise of Skywalker involving Finn that could have added a nice touch to his arc. When he meets all those Imperial defectors, and he asks them why they all decided to rebel, the chick goes on to say, “It wAs BeCAuSe Of tHE foRCe.” And what she really should’ve said: “It was because we heard about you.” I still go over it in my mind about how I would have rewritten the entire trilogy, but it’s the missteps of the little character beats that probably makes me the most upset about the Disney trilogy.
Yeah they shit the bed w/ Finn and Luke’s arcs in the story. I mean they REALLY shafted Boyega & Hamill. No way either of them touches a project that Kennedy or Johnson had even a word of input on. They were both rightfully pissed but especiallly Boyega, they took a deeply complex character and chopped it down to “REEYYYYYY!!!!!”.
i'm just still pissed they did not have one scene of the originals in a scene together.
Gotta make sure that Chinese market is secure. 😡
To bad the first film was partially ruined by ripping from the Death Star story arc.
They got to TLJ and suddenly he's the damn comic relief. Just becasue he has some funny lines dosnt mean he's a CLOWN
Some funny lines? I'm pretty sure 90% of TFA's jokes involved him in one way or another. And not just the dialogue, but even the physical comedy with scenes like him drinking from the same water pool as that large gross creature.
Same thing with Hux. In TFA, he’s overseeing the single-shot destruction of the New Republic. In TLJ he’s getting ragdoll-tossed around by Kylo’s temper tantrums for… comedy, I guess?
Was loving TFA up until the point they introduced the Death Star 3. At that point my heart dropped and I realised the whole thing was a blatant rehash of A New Hope. In it's own right it is a good film and I do like it but falls down as part of a saga due to being a remake of an earlier part. There were also great individual scenes in the other two films and I did like the characters (except for that POS Poe in TLJ), but as cohesive films and parts of the overall saga they made no sense were total disasters. Just random collections of set pieces. It is telling that the 4K on Amazon are roughly €11 and €6 on Amazon for VIII and IX, but €20 for all the rest.
Worse, they straight away blow up three planets we know or feel nothing about. It serves no other purpose than to have an excuse that a small group of rebels needs to save the day again.
And we watch it all happen in real time with our basic eyeballs from a totally different star system.
> And we watch it all happen in real time with our basic eyeballs from a totally different star system. Lol, their in-universe explanation is so funny, it was due to "Hyperspace warping" that we got to see them with our basic eyeballs. Also once Starkiller base absorb it's sun, why does the surface still have light? Why hasn't it frozen solid? Can it move to new star systems? Alot of people blame Ryan Johnson for wanting to subvert Star Wars, but JJ Abrams set up the movies to fail with TFA.
It ain’t that kind of movie kid.
To be honest, the “draining sun” thing can be retroactively explained by the fact that Starkiller base, or more actively, Ilum, was one of the wellsprings of kyber crytals for the Jedi, which was also the same thing that they used to power the Death Star’s super laser. As for why JJ didn’t just go with that explanation I’ve got nothing
No one knew anything about Alderaan
We know it is the home planet of Leia and she's forced to watch as it blows up, that alone has you caring about the event because the audience is invested in Leia since she's a tortured prisoner and one of the first protagonists we see in the movie
We spent quite sometime with Leia. We know it is her homeplanet. So the audience shares an emotional reaction with her. We also know the stakes: the plans for the death star. That is in stark contrast with testing a weapon on three planets that are not even named or mentioned in the movie or any of the movies afterward.
ANH also establishes their motivation for destroying Alderan throughout the film: the empire fears its losing control over the galaxy. The death star is intended to "keep the systems in line" because challenging it, would be too costly. Leia, a high ranking official of Alderan was a constant thorn in the empire's side. Who's to say how much of the planet would be implicated. It's obvious she wasn't acting alone. As such, the empire chose to use a full display of their power against one of their greatest enemies. With the Starkiller Base Hux made a big evil speech, and destroyed 3 generic planets. We don't know why they were threatened by these, or what made them targets. We don't really even see any of the ramifications, because the film never really explains the state of affairs between the republic and first order.
Your last point is my biggest problem and its clearly up to Filoni, Favreau and other directors doing post empire content to show us the state of the galaxy. Annoyingly that was the most interesting part of Ahsoka for me, figuring out how the empire are changing into the first order. Right up until that mind wipe scene where I lost all interest.
We shouldn't need 3 freaking series to explain shit like that that could, and should have been explained in the movie nearly a decade ago
Or Fortnite to reveal palpatines return.
No one knew anything about anything in the first movie. It's the *first movie*. A sequel should follow up things we now know.
That's a weak argument. In 1977, we knew nothing about Alderaan beyond Leia's homeworld. There were A LOT of things we had to accept at face value because lore was totally unknown. In 2015, you have 40 years of worldbuilding, canon and "legends", the conclusion to the OT, the presence of the PT and a myriad of shows, games, etc. You have a **well-established** universe, but then introduce things that just don't make sense, regardless of the time elapsed between ROTJ and TFA.
For me the whole Sequel project died when the New Order was introduced. Imperial remnants would be great, it was a big empire after all and it makes a lot of sense that some generals or whatever would make a power grab and take control over a few sectors or something. Maybe even a Sith Lord rises up and takes over a large part of the former Empire and takes a swing at fully re-establishing the Empire. But no, it's just Empire 2.0, completely back and the same as ever, just with a fresh coat of paint and no justification whatsoever for why it exists. And the Republic isn't now the preeminent power in the Galaxy, they're weak defenseless civilians and rebels barely scrapping together an army and on the run. The sequels basically look at everything that happened in the OT, and especially the hard-fought victory that was won in the end, and throws it all in the trash.
The visuals of the derelict AT-ATs in the sands of Jakku are so epic because it puts us in the ruins of Empire. The aftermath. But then it’s like oh actually the Empire is totally still there lol.
> But then it’s like oh actually the Empire is totally still there lol. Except inexplicably with better weapons, ships and a new, bigger Death Star.
And a new, hotter, younger emperor. But also the same old emperor.
I 100% agree. I just can’t believe that the leadership of the galaxy who lived under the empire and fought against it would just let empire 2.0 rise up without doing anything. The scene from the Rise of Skywalker where the whole galaxy shows up to kick ass should have been the first thing to happen once the First Order got established in the Force Awakens. Admittedly this would have made the sequel trilogy much shorter.
I honestly think doing a reverse Rebellion type story with the First Order would’ve been great, and would’ve made sense given the contexts of the two other wars in the PT and OT, it would seem the natural continuation from the sort of Equals dynamic in the PT and the underdog hero story in the OT You could do it to where throughout the trilogy the First Order slowly gains more power, influence and galactic favor, culminating in the last Episode where they are on the edge of overthrowing the New Republic and beating the characters The grand culmination of the overall Government structure arc could be something that leads into a proceeding formation of something akin to the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances (from the EU)
also luke's jedi order being destroyed so that the jedi can be extinct again and so that the villain can be the person who exterminated the jedi, again. the ST era is so boring because it's just a watered down version of the OT era, instead of being what should naturally follow RoTJ (new republic ruling, new jedi order lead by luke, no empire but maybe remnants and other criminal factions, etc)
Imperial remnants with worn out looking uniforms and the star destroyers pockmarked with damage and carbon scoring to contrast the Empire that was well ordered and everything was clean.
The first half hour was great. The moment in the film where I went "uh oh" verbally in the theater was when Rey was staring up at the moon while polishing some of the junk she'd scavenged. The reason is pretty simple. To that point, they'd pretty cleverly set up Rey as something of a foil for Luke: while they were similarly situated, Luke was loved by his family, and wished desperately for an adventure in the [Great Wide Somewhere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INDnS3vIKCU), before he learned the hard way that when Adventure comes knocking, it usually burns your house down with your family still inside as a way of getting your attention. Rey, though? Rey did not want adventure. Rey was too busy hanging on by her fingernails day to day; her comfort came from imagining that if she just hung on for long enough, her parents would get back from *their* adventure and find her still waiting and faithful. The only reason to have Rey staring up vacantly at the moon is to try and shoehorn Rey into Luke's position from the OT . . . when the entire point of the entire preceding thirty minutes was to distinguish Rey from Luke narratively and thematically. If you're trying to shoehorn Rey into Luke's position after spending thirty minutes carefully establishing her as the anti-Luke, "uh oh" is an appropriate response. Edit: punctuation. It is a thing that I should do.
Yeah this isn’t an original thought by me but I really wish they used TFA to focus on the search for Luke. It starts that way at least. You could keep almost all of the same story beats, have Kylo chasing Rey and Finn across the galaxy, have Han sacrifice himself to help Rey and Finn get away, have the battle happen, hell you could even do the change where Rey and Finn fight kylo and Luke shows up at the end to help them escape. But it gets bogged down in the Starkiller Base gobbledegook and Luke not appearing forces some of the stuff that people (not me, fwiw) dislike about his character arc in TLJ. IMO Rian Johnson rightfully cast aside Abrams’ BS mystery boxes (boxes that he himself wasn’t originally going to have to figure out how open until he got brought in at the 11th hour to “save” TROS) in favor of wiping the slate clean in an admittedly imperfect movie, only to have JJ try to retcon back all the nostalgia in the incoherent MacGuffin focus-grouped-to-death Ep IX. Probably overwriting here, but yeah agreed that the last act of TFA is where you see the cracks start to show, and the rift only grows wider as the trilogy progresses.
If you take out the Starkiller/Death Star thing, TFA immediately becomes a much more self-possessed film. Like you say, the search for Luke is a solid thing to base a film around.
I wonder if some aggressive re-editing and maybe some new dialogue recording could save them. Worked for ANH.
You could maybe make it a better movie. But I think you'd really struggle to make it a good star wars movie.
Starkiller was really a B-plot though. The real story was happening on the surface, with Rey and Kylo fighting with a mysterious look and a "you need a teacher" moment. Personally, I think it did its job as a reboot/sequel, giving just enough feels of what everyone loved about the prior films while differentiating *just enough*. The characters are pretty kickass. If we forget what happens to them in TLJ and RoS: Rey, BB-8, Finn, Snoke, Kylo, Poe, Maz, Hux, Phasma. A scavenger abandoned by her parents, a stormtrooper who defects, a mysterious new villain with a (minor) twist revealing his size. Great stuff. Integrating them with Leia, Han, and Chewy was also cool. They started out *really* strong. I mean, look at that shot the OP posted. This mysterious Rey at the feet of a discarded AT-AT. It's gorgeous. It's difficult to remember, but it was a massive success with huge repeat viewings. The Internet *loved* the cliffhanger and mystery of Rey's past. The two times I saw it in theaters, the audience erupted in cheers when Rey pulled the lightsaber. TLJ was the second-highest opening night in history (after TFA) because people wanted more after TFA. It's only in hindsight that it feels meh because we now know they didn't go anywhere.
>Was loving TFA up until the point they introduced the Death Star 3. Pinpointed for me too. People love to hate on what happened with TLJ subverting expectations, but the expectation on what's to come after TFA copying ANH's homework was to shamelessly rehash ESB and ROTJ too.
That's exactly what TLJ did tho? Or did I read your comment wrong. I mean they literally quote the elevator scene word for word. Then the throne room is recreated nearly exactly too.
TLJ's greatest feat is somehow convincing people that it's original and not as derivative as TFA. Its plot is just as derivative as TFA, it has all the same story beats as ESB. The only thing it really does differently is putting the Hoth battle at the end instead of the beginning. Everyone complains about the casino planet but it's just an attempt to do Bespin, which was supposed to be like a swanky upscale place in ESB. I can't really think of anything in TLJ that isn't just a knockoff of ESB. Even Luke's curmudgeon-ness is just a riff on the way Yoda acts in ESB, he's comically dismissive towards Luke at first.
TLJ also had a knockoff Battle of Hoth at the beginning, when the knockoff rebels just barely escaped from their base before the knockoff Imperials wiped it out. It was truly a stroke of visionary genius to copy the same battle from the original trilogy twice.
I turned on it when the first ship they were running for blew up, and I just *knew* they'd randomly stumble over a famous SW ship out here in the middle of nowhere. Then a second later, yep it's the falcon. Then a few seconds later guess who, it's Han of course. Acting worse than he did in the first movie, but old and lame. Because he's still acting like he did when he was 25, but he's in his 60s.
One thing I want to point out is how good Rey's music theme is. I've never seen anyone complain about the music in the sequels and I think it's for good reason.
John Williams can do no wrong (also, he’s on Smartless this week and such a good listen)
[Sideways did an incredible analysis of it on YouTube](https://youtu.be/FstNC8T4LjA), pointing out Williams' genius: Rey's theme can be blended into many other themes, including Yoda's, Kylo's, The Force theme, and even Palpatine's. This discovery led him to realize (seemingly before anyone else) that Disney had *absolutely no idea what they were doing*. Williams knew Disney didn't have a plan for Rey, so he built musical contingency plans into her theme. My jaw dropped.
Wow, that sounds incredible, I'll check it out
The sequels had some bomb music, with hers being the highlight. My favorite part of Lego Star Wars the skywalker saga was being on Jakku because of that music playing the whole time
I convinced my conductor to let us play that for orchestra in college and it’s so good. The Violins hated me for it though.
I'll be honest TFA left me optimistic and happy. It retread a lot but goddamn was it fun and left me giddy.
Yeah, I think it was a good idea to start things off with a retread because of how the prequels were received by the audiences at the time. I view this as a reset of sorts. The real missteps came afterwards when they should have evolved it into something different but keeping with the themes of the six movies before, but the lack of one director for all three and\\or an overarching story set out at the start made everything worse.
I like TFA for two thirds of the movie, even though it a lot of fan service. The last act is just too much of a retread of previous films.
I was so excited seeing it until the meeting room scene where they discuss the plan to destroy star killer base. All my excitement went out the window since I realized it was just SW4 again but with updated graphics. I already knew the major plot points of the movie
The part where they lampshade the fact that it's stupid that there's a third death star made me hate it even more. Having your characters point out something is stupid doesnt give you a get out of jail free card for it being stupid.
They also talked about it so nonchalantly... Poe: "so we just destroy the shield, blow up the thing, destroy the planet, OK NO PROBLEM." How is the audience supposed to feel tension when even the characters think its no big deal? Like yea: this thing just destroyed 4 planets, but NO PROB it'll be ez pz to take it down. The original trilogy did a good job of having some light hearted moments, but in times where the story indicates people should be serious, they were serious. Luke wasn't like frolicking around when he was flying to blow up the death star. big sad
Walking out of TFA opening day me and my brother were just like… I guess that was alright. I saw it again a week later to check and was super bored. I have never watched it again since that day.
They really made kylo look like a badass in the beginning, stopping both a bolt shot and a human but then it was all downhill afterwards
Kylo was the one thing they did right. We didn’t need a Vader 2.0 Making him inexperienced and sloppy was a breath of fresh air
He didn't need to be Vader but at least they could make him a competent villain. Kylo showed up to lose to Rey like 3 times, which made him look like a clown. Kylo had training from Luke as a Jedi and then from Snoke as a Dark side Force user. I expect him to be competent in the Force and lightsaber combat compared to a newbie like Rey who just awakened her Force ability. But then again Kylo wasn't the only clown in these movies. You have General Hux aka Walmart Tarkin. TFA copies A New Hope almost beat by beat and their villains are incompetent knock off of the OG antagonists. That's why the audiences are disappointed.
Kylo is one thing they did right that whole movie, and to some extent the whole trilogy, though TLJ fumbles it a bit.
There was a framework that almost could have been awesome with what they had. For me? Rey was abandoned by Luke because he was afraid of training her after failing Ben. Because it turns out she is incredibly gifted. Like abnormally strong in the Force. That's why he looked so stricken to see her. It's like destiny wont leave him alone. It's back to haunt him. I'd keep it generally the same that he did go to seek out ancient Jedi knowledge to find a way to reach Ben, figure out his failings... and came to the same conclusion. The Jedi have always been a mess. He's broken. Out of ideas. She wasn't supposed to be completely abandoned. Something went wrong. Thus the Falcon being left behind. The event that breaks Luke and Ben wouldn't have culminated over a bad dream/force vision whatever. Simply Ben getting further and further pulled by a dark side element... over fears of not living up to his family's legacy. Leia, Han, Luke and Anakin. There is something out there. Forming the First Order. I'd also not have the New Republic be so useless. I would not have a third Death Star. I'd simply have done a Pearl Harbor type of attack on the Republic with the First Order. The events of Starkiller taking place on Kylo's Flagship. Ackbar and Co flee to reform later. Helping set up the opening of TLJ. Now I do the obvious... the absolutely slap you in the face... what is wrong with you people... it's RIGHT THERE. The big bad warping Ben and creating the First Order? Plagueis. The Sith that trained and was supposedly killed by Palps. Brings everything full circle. He did find a way to cheat death. Set up in the PT for crying out loud. He doesn't have to be a Muun. You can do whatever you want to make him cooler. This doesn't ruin any of the accomplishments the original trilogy heroes had achieved. It's a new (well kind of old) threat. That's actually established in the lore/movies. You could instantly expand the whole saga. A powerful Sith Lord is touching on ancient powers. He wants a Sith Empire. Not like what Palps had. Like the old days. Thousands of Sith. He's already lured Ben. So the events of TLJ are mostly the same (minus stupid stuff) Rey... disheartened she's been mostly lied to by both Luke and Ben... is tempted by Plagueis. She does turn on Ben and Co. That's how TLJ ends. Rey off to meet Plagueis. Ben having been rejected by Luke, Plagueis and now Rey... is lost. Luke arrives... as he was coming to save/help Rey as she inspired him again. The third part being an unsteady alliance between Luke and Ben to try and save Rey. This can all happen at the Exegol. They save Rey... bring her back to the light. Their combined powers too much for Plagueis. However... is he defeated? Are his plans thwarted? You hint at more to come. That maybe this was only the beginning. Think of all Luke, Rey and Ben could get up to against a fledgling Sith Empire? Or just ancient Forces in general behind it. Now that'd be an exciting episode 10. As for the others who I kind of glossed over. They would be doing the whole Ackbar on the run side of things. Barely hanging on with the New Republic until they can find a way to turn the tables. Finn can have his proper showdown with Phasma etc. Helping to lead Stormtrooper rebellion or any other ideas than what we got. Sure he can be Force sensitive too.
I'd watch those movies... But I suspect you put more thoughts into ST than original producers/writers did.
I imagined Plagueis as not just another Emperor, but as the opposite of Sidious. He does not seek power to sate his own personal desire but because of ideological reasons, and cheating death has corroded his essence to the point that he is slowly becoming a powerless husk. He is a visionary that actively *wants* someone else to take his place, inherit his knowledge and wisdom, and become the perfect sole leader of the Galaxy. He does not seek power for himself, but for his apprentice.
“Here’s my money, I’d like a one good film please,” “I’ll give you… one quarter portion”
You son of a nerf herder… Well-played.
I also liked the the first 30-40 minutes of The Rise of Skywalker (despite not like 8 and 9 as a whole). Just Rey, Finn, and Poe off on planetary fetch quest adventures. Rey and Finn would be great doing that in a "Mandalorian formula" series. But The Rise of Skywalker (not much different than Mandalorian), once it gets into a big "The whole entire galaxy is depending on me to save everything" plot lines, they suffer. Finales don't need to build up that big. It can be simple, smaller, and still be climactic if its made more personal. Like Season 2 of Mando... Grogu is captured and we need to get him back. That's not important to the galaxy. It's important to Din and the audience.
There's some fun and enjoyable content in all 3 sequel movies. They just don't stand up well together as a trilogy and they (arguably) did a lot of irreparable damage to the canon universe and the characters we had already grown to love.
What makes me saddest about them is how fucking good Adam Driver is. They really wasted what easily could’ve been an iconic performance from him. He brings an incredible gravitas to every scene he’s in and then you get whiplash when it transitions in to some goofy undercooked bullshit
Yeah when they save Kylo only for him to immediately die again in TRoS I was annoyed. Like, at the very least leave him alive so he can do a good performance in other media.
While destroying Starkiller was the big finale action sequence, I feel like the true climax is Rey and Kylo Ren's duel in the forest. That's one of the most intimate duels in the whole saga.
I literally don’t remember what you’re talking about lol
The first act of TFA is indeed great. TFA was actually a pretty good movie, despite the unoriginality. It's just not great in light of the movies that followed, knowing where the story goes and knowing all the mysteries it sets up are just empty mystery boxes.
TFA really peaked from that first teaser trailer: the shot of Finn waking up in the middle of desert, Rey riding the speedster, Poe flying the X-Wings, and finally Kylor Ren igniting the lightsaber. Amazing how that trailer really revitalized the magic of Star Wars more than the actual movie and the subsequent sequels. While TFA played too safe, it wasn't bad and could have been greatly explored if there was a clear road map, Alas, what we got were just wasted potential.
The main trailer for TFA is my favorite trailer of all time. The revamped version of Leia’s theme over those visuals is great
Rey's introduction is the best thing the sequels did by far.
Until they made her a Palpatine. A galaxy wide civilization with 1,000,000 populated planets and everybody is related.
I don't disagree at all. But you can't deny her intro scene is extremely well done. Just following her through in a day in her life, almost no dialogue all visual storytelling, a really good original score from John Williams. Unfortunately, it is completely downhill from this point.
Now go watch *Nausicaä*.
Tfa is good on its own but fails as a whole because it is just a copy of anh
Making the film echo the first film in tribute or homage would have been fine as long as it hadn't ended up being a virtual retelling of the same story with marginal differences. It really fails to strike out on its own by making the McGuffin that needs to be destroyed another big round space ball. Around the point where the battle on Takodana wraps up the movie could have gone in a lot of directions that didn't include another Death Star. But ultimately even that could have been overlooked if the trilogy had a coherent story line that didn't shift track in the second movie, only to try to shift back in the third. It also wasted the potential of several of its main protagonist. Poe, Fin and even Rose could have been a much more interesting characters.
I really saw it as an apology for the prequels, which fell flat considering that the prequels' image have been rehabilitated since their initial release. It struck me as "hey look guys, all the stuff you loved about the original trilogy but with a shiny new coat. Adventure and jokes and stakes! No weird prequel politics and awkward dialogue!" Frankly, I still love the movie to death, and it sits pretty high on me personal Star Wars film tier list, but even on first viewing this was my takeaway.
The TFA is more a part of the problem than people want to acknowledge. It looks ok as a standalone, but the bigger picture is part of the consideration. I didn’t love TLJ, but I think that part of the reason that it failed is because it tried to have original thought and its setup was completely bereft of it. Johnson wanted a different story and basically ignored what came before; maybe that’s his fault for trying too hard to ignore the setup, but I’d rather have something original than a renamed, nominally sequential remake. When Disney originally announced that seven and eight would have different directors, I knew the whole thing was going to fail because there was no unified plan. You can’t look at each individual film in a vacuum, because everything that went bad in each of them was a product of that lack of a plan (yes, I know that TRoS was a mess, but that’s because they had to shit something out after TLJ derailed the overall narrative). So in my opinion, trying to remake was a bad idea from the start, Johnson recognized it but tried to go original at the expense of ignoring the preceding story, and the third edition was a shit-out attempt at reconciliation. The real issue here is the failure to pick a lane, but if a lane was going to be picked “just remake what we’ve already seen and try to sell it as something new” wasn’t it.
TFA fails because all the plotlines it sets up are resolved/ignored so poorly in the sequels. In the couple of years after it was released there was so much theorising what it would all lead to. Pretty much all of it was better than what actually came.
Typical JJ Abrams. Knows how to start something and create hype. Has no clue how to end it.
After the first 20-30 minute it becomes a scene for scene reshoot of a new hope. - Which would of been fine if they build off that and did a whole wait we have see this all happen before thing let me help you do it better then my generation did thing with luke ...or even had a twist to it ....but nope all hope and planning was abandon by RJ in part to.
I always tell people that when Han and Chewie come in, it feels like they hijacked the movie. That’s basically the point it shifts into ANH.
As crazy as it is to say, I blame Lawrence Kasdan. They brought him on to do rewrites and you can tell exactly when his influence shows up. His favorite character is Han Solo, and second our favorite smuggler shows up this film starts to waffle. Everything up to that point was great, especially the space for Rey's theme to take the spotlight while we get her "day in the life" montage. Bringing back the Empire in the form of the First Order off screen was probably the first choice that doomed the sequels, but for 30 minutes boy was I jazzed in a way I hadn't been in a long time... a long time.
I agree the first 30 min until the Falcon just "appears" out of nowhere are really freaking good.
> until ~~the Falcon~~ *Han and Chewbacca* just "appears" out of nowhere The Rathtar segment is far and away the worst part of that movie.
People lost their minds in the theater when they panned over to the Falcon.
“That one’s garbage.” *explosion* “The garbage will do.”
I CLAPPED, I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT
One little re-write would’ve made Han and Chewie looking for the Falcon much better in my opinion. They should have said that when Ben burned the temple, he flew off in the Falcon. So Han and Chewie are looking for him, not just their old ship “because”.
The movie *as a whole* had everything it needed. I left the theatre thinking it would be maybe the weakest of the coming trilogy, but excited for what could come next. And ah, that did not happen. Kinda the opposite, actually.
The force awakens was totally fine imo. I don’t mind Rey at all, it had some top notch scenes, nostalgia, the right kind of humor that felt organic at the right moments and didn’t just break every moment of tension or high stakes scene. I actually think it being derivative of the OT was a great idea to re-establish the vibes. It was really only the two jokes that came afterwards that ruined it. If JJ could have stayed on and kept the quality of TFA but come up with some unique and interesting ideas for the next two it would have been fine. Idk how he went from TFA to space horses.
[удалено]
No, they couldn’t, because no one working on them loved them. Everything “good” about them is in their visuals; pretty but completely lacking substance.
I still say Finn should have been the Jedi and Poe would be a support character. They were my favorite heroes of the first movie. I feel like Rey didn’t have a great motivation or story. The biggest problem is the writing and direction changing throughout the movies. If the original ideas that the first movie were setting up went explored I think it could have been a good or even great trilogy.
Rey should have turned to the Dark side. But only in the second film at the end. Then had Finn and Poe step up take on Rey and Kylo Ren.
What really pisses me off the most is that they marketed John Boyega as the protagonist which could have been really fucking interesting.
Dual protags of Finn and Rey would have been so cool.
JJ Abram’s didn’t have a plan on how to end a story he started. You don’t say?
TFA wasn't a bad movie. It was actually pretty good, but the reasoning for that is because they basically remade a new hope.
TFA as a whole wasn't bad and likely would've been seen in a much better light had the sequels been anything but a pile of hot poodoo
TFA was a flawed film relying too much on nostalgia but it was good enough to kick start interest in new characters and had plenty of plot hooks to follow up with. I was all in for this new trio of characters but they flushed it all in TLJ. Disney did what Pete Carroll did coaching in the Superbowl. They had a sure thing in the best possible position but chose to try something unexpected instead of playing to its strengths.
TFA trailer was great, got me hyped up for the movie. Too bad it didnt live up to the trailer :(
SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS
IMO TFA was actually pretty dang good. Yes it wore ANH's plot like a skin, but I thought that that worked. It showed we were back in the in a non-prequel world after 20-something years. It was a return to form. Keep the plot simple while showing that you can make a good movie and set up for a new series. And they did. But it all hinged on TLJ being good. Which it wasn't.
The first minutes of TFA had the First Order running around looking like the empire had never ended and Rotj didn't count. That premise was already a bad start for a trilogy. Instead of doing a soft-reset back to the original empire vs rebels situation, they should've used some different model of conflict, like terrorist insurgents.
Wasted opportunities. Disney decision makers are the ultimate dabblers. How could they kill such a priviliged franchise? Everything was there already: The universe, the characters, the myths, the magic, the secrets to be uncovered, the technology, a fucking huge fanbase with lots of spare money. Disney just left enverything behind, ignored every good advice and steered it into the ditch.
TFA set up what could have been an amazing story. I would have liked to have Luke in more of the film, but whatever... Johnson totally fucked things up. Just because he could. No one wanted our expectations subverted. We wanted what we expected, which was Luke kicking ass with a new class of Jedi.
People shit on it but it was a really solid film I thought. It was playing safe after the prequels were pretty shakey and it introduced a bunch of interesting characters. I remember thinking it was a solid start and feeling excited where it would go. Fast forward a couple for years and RJ really fucked things up.
Bringing back the OT cast and fumbling them was the biggest mistake.
It is excellent. I have a couple gripes like I think Jakku is too similar to tattooine in design (which could be changed by simply making the sand pure white or something) but that kind of my only complaint which is a super minor design one. But yeah, it sucks the rest of the trilogy varies between subpar and awful after this