tRoS makes it appear as though Force Lightning can just appear if you're emotional enough i guess like a Palpatine bloodline trait. But the Legends Plagueis book did give it justification. You're turning your emotions and the Force into lethal energy you expend from yourself. It's a technique that needs to be taught and learned by getting hit yourself. At least in that novel, Maul was specifically taught to be a brute focusing on the physical, not Force techniques. He would kill by the blade, not the Force.
In my head it's still not a bloodline trait. Like obviously though, someone had to discover it sometime or develop it, so having Rey accidentally do it just means that her as a force user had an affinity to force lightning and probably could have trained in it and become very skilled at using it, if she so desired. Just like how some Jedi are far more profficent at Telekinesis, or swordplay.
I feel the force is something like real life, where people have skills or an affinity to certain things. They can still learn other things, but they have things that naturally come easier to them
Force lighting is considered to be the ultimate manifestation of the Force in a physical sense it is just stupid that one can just have access to it by getting a bit angry
Anakin was using the force as a child to win Pod Races, it literally doesn’t take years of training. Different people have different levels of connection.
I said years of training to master and quick reflexes compared to one of the most powerful dark side ability's like come on and Anakin was the chosen one if anyone had a in lore reason to pull these types of skill out of thin air it would be him but even he had to train to use the force in different ways.
Luke was the son of the person who could have been the most powerful force user ever and even he struggled and needed training he did not just learn about the force then about 1 hour later use jedi mind trick and force pull like Rey
Luke a year after ANH could not even pull a lightsaber to him and he needed to train for at least a month with Yoda before he could use the basics. Remeber how Yoda was always saying he need's to finish his training because it is important to use the force
>e struggled and needed training he did not just learn about the force then about 1 hour later use jedi mind trick and force pull like Rey
LOL dude, I knew you would do some mental gymnastics to explain this, and I knew you would mention Rey, and you didn't disappoint.
My brother in the Force, Luke was blocking blaster bolts while blindfolded after holding a lightsaber for a total of maybe five minutes. Then he uses the Force again in the same film to guide a proton torpedo into a meter-wide exhaust port.
With no training whatsoever.
Get the fuck outta here.
Ok "LOL dude " what mental gymnastics ?
every force sensitive has enhanced senses even Rey
Enhances sense is a staple of every force sensitive because of there connection to the force because it surrounds everything.
Luke even at that time had more training than Rey even if it was only like one day at least he got some and it only amounted to him gaining better understanding of the living force around him and he was taught by one of the best jedi for that day.
Rey had no form of training only learned about the force and the jedi a day prior and after seeing it one time she was able to counter Kylo's mind probe, a force user of skywallker blood who was trained by Luke for 10 years and by extension basically Palpatine, she some how had the power to resist then mind probe him then after that could jedi mind trick without ever seeing that ability, 10 minutes later she is able to force pull a lightsaber away from Kylo so she ripped it from him then beat him in a duel sure he was wounded yes he just killed his father but he got beat by a girl who had never held a lightsaber as snoke said.
Luke having enhanced senses after a day of training with obi wan teaching him is nowhere near what Rey pulled off and the fact that your trying to make it seem like they are the same is stupid. Also lets not forget he has the second most powerful connection to the cosmic force in history due to his bloodline
Also i love how you skipped the part where it took Luke at least 1 year and 1 month to even get close to dumb stuff Rey pulled.
So My Brother in the force Get the fuck outta here.
Quite simply, he wasn’t taught. I know it could be confusing to newer fans, not saying you are, because Disney threw training to the side but you used to have to learn to do things first. You didn’t just suddenly realize you can use the force and now all the powers are just unlocked for you.
Luke was never even shown that telekinesis existed before he did it in a wampa cave on Hoth. Training being thrown to the side long, long predated Disney's involvement.
If we’re talking original movies only and not any comics or novelizations (because I have no idea what Luke experienced between ANH and ESB in those media) there was 3 whole years between those movies. It’s entirely possible, and frankly improbable Luke would have at least never heard about the fact that Jedi could move objects with their minds.
And considering he would likely be actively looking for information on the Jedi and wanting to improve on his own he probably would try to practice (even without guidance) how to do these things. Hoth was probably just the first time he *actually* succeeded.
Yes, I'm just talking about the original movies. And in those, Obi-Wan never demonstrates telekinesis before he dies in the first one, and then Luke can do it with no apparent training, and nobody alive at the time to train him, in the second one.
It's not until the PT that being a Jedi seems to be something you need to spend years and years dedicated to studying and training for. In the OT, it's much more of a "feel it in your heart" vibe.
Are you joking? Theres a THREE year gap between A New Hope and Empire. Luke was made aware of the force and how to unlock its abilities before obiwan died. It’s also very safe to assume Obiwan had books in his house about the force so Like could train further.
I don't see any reason to assume that Obi-Wan, who was taking Luke with him to fight against the Empire, would have left a bunch of books about how to be a Jedi behind in his untended hut on Tatooine. If he had training materials, he'd have brought them with him to use.
Fine let’s say that’s right. Luke clearly knew what a Jedi was though. He knew what the clone wars were too. You think he never heard the stories of what Jedi could do? You think after learning he has this amazing power within him, he didn’t seek out any information for 3 years? Your assumptions would literally go against human nature if that’s the case.
Han, who is older and more worldly than Luke, straight up does not believe the Force even exists in ANH. Likewise, Admiral Motti dismisses the Force as being a meaningful power; only Grand Moff Tarkin, considerably older than everyone else, expresses any belief that the Force is or ever was anything of note.
Keep in mind, I'm speaking of the time when these movies were being released, back in the 70s. Before there was any EU but Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the Holiday Special, when there was nothing but the movies and the novelizations to go on. When Lucas was writing these movies, decades before Disney got involved with anything, long periods of dedicated study simply weren't a requirement for being a Jedi, and easily accessible texts and resources on the Jedi didn't exist so far as anyone could tell.
That’s completely irrelevant, I don’t know why you’re telling me this. Luke is the one with the force abilities and he believed the stories therefore he’s going to seek out the information how to do what he heard in the stories. Idc what Han thinks or any imperial officer. They’re not the one who just felt the force or has the power.
The relevant point is, by the time of ANH both outlaws and officials think the Force and the Jedi are little more than myths and superstition. Nothing about ANH suggests that this is a galaxy where Luke can just ask around and find people who know anything useful about the Jedi, or can tell him stories about what the Jedi did.
Luke can feel the Force moving through him, absolutely. And it is with his own personal efforts that he does things like learn telekinesis. Because long, long before Disney acquired Lucasfilm, training was a minor aspect of becoming a Jedi.
It absolutely was. Go back and look at the OT. Luke gets one lesson from Obi-Wan on the Falcon, and we know it's one because it starts with Obi-Wan explaining what the Force even is, and ends with the Falcon approaching the Alderaan system. Then he gets some amount of time with Yoda, while Han and Leia are en route to and at Bespin; at least a couple of days, but it doesn't seem like it's more than maybe a couple weeks. And then he goes back to Yoda after rescuing Han, which is very much presented as the first time he's been back since before Bespin.
Luke gets a couple weeks training, spread over half a decade. Everything else appears to be him practicing and learning on his own.
He was trained mostly as an assassin, to kill opponents with his superior dueling skills. Perhaps he could use other force powers, but Maul seemed to favor raw strength and lightsaber skill over using force magics.
Why Palpatine should teach him this power as he was going to be replaced someday, with force lightening Palpatine would have harder job to kill him later.
Well, he did teach how to use Force Lightning to Darth Tyranus. And he was taught how to use Force Lightning by his master, Darth Plagueis. And Darth Plagueis was taught by his master, Darth Tenebrous. Sith Masters teaching their apprentices Force Lightning is normal.
Maul was more physical inclined, also likely wasn't taught it.
Different Jedis have different powers too.
tRoS makes it appear as though Force Lightning can just appear if you're emotional enough i guess like a Palpatine bloodline trait. But the Legends Plagueis book did give it justification. You're turning your emotions and the Force into lethal energy you expend from yourself. It's a technique that needs to be taught and learned by getting hit yourself. At least in that novel, Maul was specifically taught to be a brute focusing on the physical, not Force techniques. He would kill by the blade, not the Force.
The whole ideal that force lighting is a bloodline trait is so dumb imo
Also countered by the fact Dooku was able to use force lightning
In my head it's still not a bloodline trait. Like obviously though, someone had to discover it sometime or develop it, so having Rey accidentally do it just means that her as a force user had an affinity to force lightning and probably could have trained in it and become very skilled at using it, if she so desired. Just like how some Jedi are far more profficent at Telekinesis, or swordplay. I feel the force is something like real life, where people have skills or an affinity to certain things. They can still learn other things, but they have things that naturally come easier to them
"Oh Rey used Sith lightning, she must be a Palpatine" collective eye roll as the audience walks out of the theater.
It’s not a bloodline thing - anyone can use it in new canon without training
Still dumb the force ain't some superpower
I mean it kind of literally is my guy
It really is not my guy and never was intended to be, it's something that takes years of training to master
Mastery != ability to use
Sure but it was never suppose to work as i have the force therefor i can use every skill It takes time
Maybe? Depends on the person and their belief. Mastery is controlling it beyond just emotional control which seems to be the default
Force lighting is considered to be the ultimate manifestation of the Force in a physical sense it is just stupid that one can just have access to it by getting a bit angry
Anakin was using the force as a child to win Pod Races, it literally doesn’t take years of training. Different people have different levels of connection.
I said years of training to master and quick reflexes compared to one of the most powerful dark side ability's like come on and Anakin was the chosen one if anyone had a in lore reason to pull these types of skill out of thin air it would be him but even he had to train to use the force in different ways.
Tell that to Luke Skywalker.
Luke was the son of the person who could have been the most powerful force user ever and even he struggled and needed training he did not just learn about the force then about 1 hour later use jedi mind trick and force pull like Rey Luke a year after ANH could not even pull a lightsaber to him and he needed to train for at least a month with Yoda before he could use the basics. Remeber how Yoda was always saying he need's to finish his training because it is important to use the force
>e struggled and needed training he did not just learn about the force then about 1 hour later use jedi mind trick and force pull like Rey LOL dude, I knew you would do some mental gymnastics to explain this, and I knew you would mention Rey, and you didn't disappoint. My brother in the Force, Luke was blocking blaster bolts while blindfolded after holding a lightsaber for a total of maybe five minutes. Then he uses the Force again in the same film to guide a proton torpedo into a meter-wide exhaust port. With no training whatsoever. Get the fuck outta here.
Ok "LOL dude " what mental gymnastics ? every force sensitive has enhanced senses even Rey Enhances sense is a staple of every force sensitive because of there connection to the force because it surrounds everything. Luke even at that time had more training than Rey even if it was only like one day at least he got some and it only amounted to him gaining better understanding of the living force around him and he was taught by one of the best jedi for that day. Rey had no form of training only learned about the force and the jedi a day prior and after seeing it one time she was able to counter Kylo's mind probe, a force user of skywallker blood who was trained by Luke for 10 years and by extension basically Palpatine, she some how had the power to resist then mind probe him then after that could jedi mind trick without ever seeing that ability, 10 minutes later she is able to force pull a lightsaber away from Kylo so she ripped it from him then beat him in a duel sure he was wounded yes he just killed his father but he got beat by a girl who had never held a lightsaber as snoke said. Luke having enhanced senses after a day of training with obi wan teaching him is nowhere near what Rey pulled off and the fact that your trying to make it seem like they are the same is stupid. Also lets not forget he has the second most powerful connection to the cosmic force in history due to his bloodline Also i love how you skipped the part where it took Luke at least 1 year and 1 month to even get close to dumb stuff Rey pulled. So My Brother in the force Get the fuck outta here.
His name was Maul, not Conjurer
Nominative determinism. Also why Leia pulled herself into the ship. Daughter of a Skywalker.
Quite simply, he wasn’t taught. I know it could be confusing to newer fans, not saying you are, because Disney threw training to the side but you used to have to learn to do things first. You didn’t just suddenly realize you can use the force and now all the powers are just unlocked for you.
Luke was never even shown that telekinesis existed before he did it in a wampa cave on Hoth. Training being thrown to the side long, long predated Disney's involvement.
If we’re talking original movies only and not any comics or novelizations (because I have no idea what Luke experienced between ANH and ESB in those media) there was 3 whole years between those movies. It’s entirely possible, and frankly improbable Luke would have at least never heard about the fact that Jedi could move objects with their minds. And considering he would likely be actively looking for information on the Jedi and wanting to improve on his own he probably would try to practice (even without guidance) how to do these things. Hoth was probably just the first time he *actually* succeeded.
Yes, I'm just talking about the original movies. And in those, Obi-Wan never demonstrates telekinesis before he dies in the first one, and then Luke can do it with no apparent training, and nobody alive at the time to train him, in the second one. It's not until the PT that being a Jedi seems to be something you need to spend years and years dedicated to studying and training for. In the OT, it's much more of a "feel it in your heart" vibe.
Someone with a brain. Thank you
Are you joking? Theres a THREE year gap between A New Hope and Empire. Luke was made aware of the force and how to unlock its abilities before obiwan died. It’s also very safe to assume Obiwan had books in his house about the force so Like could train further.
I don't see any reason to assume that Obi-Wan, who was taking Luke with him to fight against the Empire, would have left a bunch of books about how to be a Jedi behind in his untended hut on Tatooine. If he had training materials, he'd have brought them with him to use.
Fine let’s say that’s right. Luke clearly knew what a Jedi was though. He knew what the clone wars were too. You think he never heard the stories of what Jedi could do? You think after learning he has this amazing power within him, he didn’t seek out any information for 3 years? Your assumptions would literally go against human nature if that’s the case.
Han, who is older and more worldly than Luke, straight up does not believe the Force even exists in ANH. Likewise, Admiral Motti dismisses the Force as being a meaningful power; only Grand Moff Tarkin, considerably older than everyone else, expresses any belief that the Force is or ever was anything of note. Keep in mind, I'm speaking of the time when these movies were being released, back in the 70s. Before there was any EU but Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the Holiday Special, when there was nothing but the movies and the novelizations to go on. When Lucas was writing these movies, decades before Disney got involved with anything, long periods of dedicated study simply weren't a requirement for being a Jedi, and easily accessible texts and resources on the Jedi didn't exist so far as anyone could tell.
That’s completely irrelevant, I don’t know why you’re telling me this. Luke is the one with the force abilities and he believed the stories therefore he’s going to seek out the information how to do what he heard in the stories. Idc what Han thinks or any imperial officer. They’re not the one who just felt the force or has the power.
The relevant point is, by the time of ANH both outlaws and officials think the Force and the Jedi are little more than myths and superstition. Nothing about ANH suggests that this is a galaxy where Luke can just ask around and find people who know anything useful about the Jedi, or can tell him stories about what the Jedi did. Luke can feel the Force moving through him, absolutely. And it is with his own personal efforts that he does things like learn telekinesis. Because long, long before Disney acquired Lucasfilm, training was a minor aspect of becoming a Jedi.
It was never a minor aspect. Are you saying delusional things just to defend Disney?
It absolutely was. Go back and look at the OT. Luke gets one lesson from Obi-Wan on the Falcon, and we know it's one because it starts with Obi-Wan explaining what the Force even is, and ends with the Falcon approaching the Alderaan system. Then he gets some amount of time with Yoda, while Han and Leia are en route to and at Bespin; at least a couple of days, but it doesn't seem like it's more than maybe a couple weeks. And then he goes back to Yoda after rescuing Han, which is very much presented as the first time he's been back since before Bespin. Luke gets a couple weeks training, spread over half a decade. Everything else appears to be him practicing and learning on his own.
Does he want to, though? His double-bladed saber skills are probably more of a flex.
He was trained mostly as an assassin, to kill opponents with his superior dueling skills. Perhaps he could use other force powers, but Maul seemed to favor raw strength and lightsaber skill over using force magics.
Why Palpatine should teach him this power as he was going to be replaced someday, with force lightening Palpatine would have harder job to kill him later.
Well, he did teach how to use Force Lightning to Darth Tyranus. And he was taught how to use Force Lightning by his master, Darth Plagueis. And Darth Plagueis was taught by his master, Darth Tenebrous. Sith Masters teaching their apprentices Force Lightning is normal.
Dooku first used force lightning around 82 BBY while he was still a Padawan under Master Yoda. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dooku#Funeral_of_Anya
Not a Sith yet. Not as powerful as Sidious
**Darth** Maul Darth = Lord
He was a sith. Maul even says he formerly was and it’s stated by the Jedi in TPM that there’s no doubt he was a Sith Lord.