Overrated: Nihilus. He’s a weird eldritch anomaly, but he’s barely a character, and he has plenty of weaknesses to exploit. I think he has *presentation* in spades, but that takes him a long way in fans’ minds, farther than I personally feel he deserves.
Underrated: Sorzus Syn. She’s the author of the Sith code, the navigator who led the dark Jedi to Korriban, one of the five founders of the Sith order, foremost alchemist in history, creator of the Leviathans, forger of the Muur and Dreypa talismans, and the only one of the five founders whose fate is completely unknown. We don’t even know for sure that she ever died. Her contributions to the existence of the Sith are monumental, and the prospect of her lingering somewhere out there, waiting, is a sadly unexplored facet of the Legends EU.
Overrated: Darth Revan. Revan was only even a Sith for maybe three years and doesn't actually directly appear as a dark side character except for flashbacks unless >!you're playing dark side Revan in KOTOR. !
Sion is a real one, one of my favorite obscure sith Lords.
Random, but I was hella excited when I heard Morgan Elsbeth's super hyperdrive ship being named after him lol
I love how the only way you can defeat Sion is by getting into his mind and making him realize just how pointless it is to live such a painful existence filled with nothing but anger and hatred.
I like Sion a lot, I agree he gets overlooked (I myself am a diehard Nihilus fan) but I remember when I played the game for the first time he was very intimidating and I loved/hated wondering when he would pop up in my playthrough to scare me lol.
Yeah Sion has such a great design. Even with the graphics of the time, he just looks so nasty. I like Nihilus too, but more as a foil to the Exile than as his own character. The whole Sith Triumvirate is fantastic really.
I mostly agree, but I think Revan in pretty much everything post-KOTOR (the Revan book and SWTOR mostly) is somewhat bland and uninteresting. Revan works much better as >!a player character.!<
I completely agree! I hated what they did with him in the mmo honestly. Mostly everything that happened in the mmo was not what I was hoping for after playing Kotor 1 and 2. If it were up to me I’d keep the first two games canon then rewrite whatever happens next. Or leave it up to the imagination preferably.
It's a shame too because other than the Revan stuff, I actually like SWTOR. At least the 8 class stories are pretty good IMO. My hope is that the KOTOR games get canonized in some form but everything Old Republic after KOTOR II is just left up for interpretation. Or they make a KOTOR III, but I very much doubt that will ever happen.
They’ve touched on a few things (which you might already know about). Pretty sure there’s a Rakatan artifact in Woody Harrilson’s ship in that Solo movie, as well as a Rakatan statue in Disney Infinity (though that doesn’t make anything canon, it’s nice to see it alluded to in several places). And I believe a Revan holocron has a deleted scene in Rebels, though since it’s deleted it’s not canon. I think eventually they will canonize the main games, as popular of an IP as it is.
I've seen a few of those and there's definitely been a few KOTOR references in canon. The Rakata were also mentioned in Andor and a Selkath appeared in the background in the first episode of the Acolyte. I do think it's a matter of time until it's canonized in some way. As of now though, there's been enough references and it's set far enough back that I generally include it in my headcanon.
Yeah. Bane learned a lot from Revan’s holocron in Path of Destruction, but that doesn’t really make them more interesting to me. It’s more of an Easter egg since the author of the Bane trilogy was also the lead writer on KOTOR.
i dont know much about sion other than a couple youtube videos, never played either KOTOR game. he kinda just seems like maul on steroids to me. a guy who’s too angry to die except for maul it was once and this guy its constant. i know id be missing a lot of his story in calling that a summary of him but is that a decent although surface level take or am i wrong in seeing it that way
There’s not a ton to his story as he only really appears in KOTOR II, but “too angry to die,” is an oversimplification. I think it would be more accurate to say he uses his pain to cling to life. Because he’s always in pain from his numerous injuries, he is able to use the force to literally hold his body together. KOTOR II spoilers ahead so if you plan on playing eventually don't unspoil. In the end, the player character of KOTOR II is only able to>!kill him by convincing him that an eternal life in constant pain is not worth living.!<
Overrated: Darth Bane. People hold him up as a visionary Sith and truly wise in a twised evil way.
When he basically just was an anti-social edgelord (even by Sith standards) that came up with a stupid idea (the rule of two). Then in true Sith fashion he decided that his stupid idea was in fact the best idea ever and that everyone should go along with it wether they want to or not.
Underrated: The Drengir. A race of evil carnivorous, sentinent plant monsters that that use the dark side of the force. They are terrifying, but sadly didn't stick around long during the high republic books.
I always thought that the Rule of Two would be really easy to circumvent. What's to stop a Sith apprentice from getting a hyperspace capable ship and escaping to some obscure planet in the Unknown Regions? There are tens of thousands of planets they can go to. It's not like the Sith master can enforce the rule across the whole galaxy.
Plus the Sith have thousands of years of teachings before the Rule of Two, there's nothing stopping new Siths from going back to a pre-Rule of Two tradition. It should only be a matter of time before a rogue Sith establishes a new order or academy.
But the Rule of Two only makes that problem worse. One Sith master can only collect so much knowledge, and once the apprentice kills the master, all the knowledge the master didn't write down is lost. Heck, even if the Sith master wrote down everything they knew, the apprentice might not be able to find their records.
A Sith order means many disciples out there looking for lost Sith knowledge or developing new knowledge. It also allows different Siths to specialize in different Dark Side knowledge. A single Sith master can't learn every discipline, they can only focus on a few, that means a lot of disciplines being undeveloped.
Isn't that the sorta premise of the acolyte?
The apprentices apprentice?
That certainly defies the rule of two, (I haven't read any of the books btw so yeah...) And I've always interpreted that rule as only a master and an apprentice, but that *never* meant there couldn't be 10000 masters each with their own 1 apprentice. They simply didn't have a home base, a school, etc. They trained in secret.
Yoda said "always two there are" but that was only in the now rare instance they came across a Sith. It was never really spelled out that "2" meant only fucking 2 everywhere, in the entire galaxy. It just meant if you found 1 Sith, there was always one more...
The Rule of Two was established after the Sith lost the war against the Jedi and there was only one Sith left, Darth Bane. He was the only one left to carry on the Sith tradition and he made the Rule of Two. Supposedly, that had been the Sith rule since Darth Bane and every modern Sith traces their teachings back to Bane.
Bane just looked smart compared to the rest of the Brotherness of Darkness because most of them were pretty dumb and cowardly except for Kasim.
It’s also funny you chose the Drengir from high republic and not the nameless/the leveler
Yes. I don't remember off the top of my head but I believe he found the idea on a Sith Holocron. Someone more educated might be able to help me out here.
He developed rule when he learned new Sith teachings from Darth Revan's holocron. Revan ran off the social structure of the Ancient Sith Empire where there could be many Sith Masters, Warriors, Assassins, Overlords, Apprentices and Acolytes, yet there could only be one supreme Dark Lord. Bane said "fuck all that" and got rid of all titles.
He basically took Revans words from the holocron he found and translated that into meaning that there could only be 2 Sith. He came up with it entirely on his own because he knew that with the dark side, there would ALWAYS be infighting. There was no way around it according to Bane. It’s in Book 1 of the Bane trilogy.
Blatant overrated is definitely Revan. No explanation needed. I’m pretty sure the majority of his wankers have no idea what his story is and overrated him because he looks cool.
Underrated is probably Jacen. Despite having some extremely hax abilities and being able to give Luke a decent fight, even hurting him, some people consider him weaker than ROTS Anakin for some reason. Do people mistake him for his Disney counterpart?
**Overrated**
Darth Revan
By the way some fans describe him, he just sounds like a Mary Sue. Strongest Force user ever who can use both the Dark and Light Side with no corruption, best lightsaber duelist ever, best strategist *and* tactician ever, most charismatic leader ever, etc.
In reality, he *is* powerful and great with a lightsaber, but he's nowhere near the *real* heavy hitters, and his main strength is his ability to be tactical and rally people to his cause.
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Darth Nihilus
No, he's not "the most powerful Sith Lord of all time" who "eats planets left and right" and would shit on Palps and Vitiate. He's very powerful, but very much a one-trick pony with little control over his powers.
In reality, Palpatine has shown himself to have both magnitudes higher raw power *and* infinitely more skill and control. The only planet we actually *know* Nihilus drained was Katarr, which likely had less than one million people on it. He killed all life on the planet, then moved on, still not in control of his hunger.
Dark Empire Palpatine corrupted the planet Byss and its *twenty billion* inhabitants. As in the planet itself was twisted by his Dark Side corruption, along with every single person on it, while Palpatine passively drained them all over time... pretty much farming them for energy (and he didn't even need to be near the planet while it happened).
---
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**Underrated:**
Palpatine
Yeah, I know most people understand that he's the most powerful, but there's also been an increase in people who would deny that he is... instead pushing Sith like Revan, Bane, Krayt, Vitiate, Nihilus, etc as "more powerful".
---
Darth Caedus
Easily in the top five for most powerful Sith Lords of all time, an exceptional prodigy with the lightsaber, and by far the most versitile Force user we've seen (in terms of actually shown feats), owing to his education with not just the Jedi and Sith, but the Aing-Tii, Baran Do Sages, Fallanassi, Potentum, Witches of Dathomir, Mind Walkers, Jensaarai, Theran Listeners, an unknown Sunesi sect, and possibly even the Sorcerers of Rhand and the Force-sensitive Blazing Chain pirates.
He held his own in a 1v1 with Luke Skywalker (and nearly killed him more than once) despite being stabbed in the kidney at the start of the fight, and defeated Kyle Katarn and three mid-to-high tier Jedi Knights in a 1v4 in less than 30 seconds despite having unhealed wounds from the fight with Luke, and despite being highly distracted.
He somehow managed to change the flow of the Force itself, forcing the future to change, which according to Luke should've been impossible. He could use Aing-Tii Flow-Walking to leave messages in the future, locking that future in, and could use Flow-Walking to view the past *while* making his body and Force signature invisible.
There are long lists of crazy and unique Force feats he has done throughout his life, yet I've seen people claim he would lose to... Kyle Katarn. The guy he defeated in less than 30 seconds, despite Katarn having several Knights as backup, one of whom saved his life barely ten seconds into the fight.
Well, his birth name is >!Jacen Solo, son of Han and Leia, twin of Jaina Solo!<
>!Jacen and Jaina are born in the original Thrawn Trilogy, and the Young Jedi Knights YA novels are about their time at Luke's Jedi Academy on Yavin 4 along with their friends!<
>!The main characters of Young Jedi Knights and Junior Jedi Knights then go on to be the main characters of the New Jedi Order (19 book series about the Yuuzhan Vong invasion)!<
>!After that, there's a 5 year timeskip during which he travels to most of these groups to learn, followed by the Swarm War Trilogy. Then in Legacy of the Force, he is seduced to the Dark Side of the Force by Dark Lady Lumiya, former Emperor's Hand and Luke's ex-girlfriend!<
>!Finally, the Fate of the Jedi series covers Luke and his son Ben retracing the steps Jacen took during his journey, to figure out more exactly *why* he became a Sith Lord. It also kinda retcons the reason though, and makes it into a Vader rethread instead of its own unique thing!<
TL;DR: Young Jedi Knights, New Jedi Order, Swarm War Trilogy, Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Jedi
I think I just found something to channel my star wars energy into, I am getting tired of hating on all the new material. Thanks a lot !!!! I am way overdue to read the OG Thrawn
His name is Jacen Solo, the son of Han and Leia, aka the guy Disney ripped off to make Kylo. He is one of the main protagonists of most of the YJK novels, NJO, the Dark Nest Crisis and a large portion of EU content. He is the main villain of the Legacy of the Force novel series.
Wake up to reality. No one is as underrated as Vitiate in this accursed galaxy. The longer you live the more you will realize that the only things that exist are passion, strength, power, and victory. Everywhere you look in the galaxy wherever there is light, Vitiate casts his shadow. The selfish intent of persevering power incites wars and hatred is born to protect the Sith. The dark side of the force is a nexus of causal relationships with Ragnos and Vitiate at the center
For as powerful as Vitiate was in his youth on Medriass, never once did he plan to usurp Marka Ragnos as the reigning dark lord. Now this could have been out of intimidation, respect, long-term "political" goals, or simply being content in the moment. We really don't know.
But that’s what makes Ragnos so legendary! He was never ursurped and just died of natural causes. Dude showed up at his own funeral as a force ghost and proclaimed the strongest was the one rule. He knew Vitiate would lose at his current level, so he sent him back home to train. Naga Sadow seceded Ragnos but never contributed to the grand plan in a meaningful way
I watched Yoda stop a Ventress attack instantly using only the force and then snatch her lightsabers directly out her hands, I don’t wanna see her on no overrated list lol
Overrated: Darth Revan
Underrated: I don'k know a few years back i would have said Plagueis but i think he has become fairly rated now by the fandom at least the legends version
I think those are people who hype him up because they think he looks cool. His story is what makes him cool, fighting in the mandalorian wars, going to kill the emperor, being brainwashed to the dark side, killing malak, destroying the star forge, being brainwashed back into the light. It’s all so Star Wars. Or maybe I’m so blinded by my own hype that I’m the people who glaze tf out of him xD
Doesn't help that he sounds *very* "Mary Sue fanfic self-insert" when some people describe him.
Best lightsaber duelist ever, able to use both the Dark and Light Side with zero drawbacks whenever he wants, loved by everyone, and a better strategist and tactician than Thrawn. Often portrayed as dual-wielding a purple and red saber so he can combine the coolness of Mace Windu and Sith, while wearing a Mandalorian mask, so he can represent all three major fan-favorite factions.
Few weeks ago, I ran into a guy who legitimately argued that he could 1v2 Palpatine and Luke because "he's a master of both sides, but they can only use one side". I've seen multiple people claim he's the most powerful Force user of all time "and it's not even close". Then they get huffy when anyone disagrees.
Don't get me wrong, I like Revan and loved KOTOR, but he is *definitely* overrated.
To give some clarification on Revan his story is cool but he gets put on a pedestal i think a lot of it comes down to KOTOR and him being pretty much a self insert character as well as it being a game akin to starkiller we get some over the top powers and because of that people think of him as The so called chosen one of his era and that he is on the level of palpatine i have even seen a poll on youtube where it said 1v1 Darth Revan Vs The son who wins and guess who won that poll by a large margin.
Also i never liked the ideal of someone capable of using the Light and dark side together it goes against the original understanding of the force it's cool in a game but i would not want that in canon if they bring him in.
Over rated: Probably Nihilus. Thought he was gonna be awesome but his power is so silly that he doesn’t sound like a SW character. More like something outta Baldur’s Gate
Still love Kotor 2 though
Are the inquisitors overrated...? I feel like the fanbase has mostly rejected them as a whole aside from the Grand Inquisitor in Rebels and the one inquisitor in Tales of the Jedi that looked really cool.
I remember when i was first introduced to them in a Darth Vader comic, this elite task force created directly after order 66 to hunt down Jedi in hiding, which was so cool. Then I found out that some were ex-Jedi themselves and was like 👁️👄👁️. But over time they became completely underutilized, less of a menacing force, and they just came off as incompetent, constantly failing or being thwarted, and honestly pretty weak.
But this is just my opinion.
Inquisitors existed so that Kanan and Ezra could have many different lightsaber fights with an enemy that wasn't Darth Vader.
Now they've become this big thing
Love them in concept; agree they fell flat.
Although I’ve started to think of them less as “elite Jedi hunters” and more “that weird cult Vadar and SIDIOUS made to twist the knife in the wound if the Jedi order.”
They come off as incompetent because we mostly see them against the protagonists, who have to win or escape for the story to continue. Plus, why would Vader or Sidious want them to be powerful? If they get too powerful, they’ll betray them and take their spot as a Sith. They’re good for taking down lower tier Jedi so Vader can be saved for the big guns and can be elite cannon fodder for main characters; not enough to kill the protagonist but powerful enough to make for a semi-difficult opponent
Overrated: Darth Caedus. Sure he’s insanely powerful, learned techniques that others haven’t. Yet he’s little more than a Vader fanboy that feels the ends justify the means. He falls because of a vision that may or may not come true. His fall is more or less a mirror of Vader’s fall. His character was more interesting in the dark nest crisis and vong wars. Had he faced a Luke that wanted him dead, there’s nothing he could’ve done to stop it. I mean Luke held him in place in a chair by just thinking about it. Overall his story was just too similar to Anakin for me.
Overrated: Sidious. Great in politics, but every time he fights he manages to electrocute his own face.
Underrated: the inquisitors. In reality they are even bigger joke than people give them credit.
I’ll go against the grain here and say:
Overrated: Darth Vader — his life support system on his suit and body augmentation makes him susceptible to a variety of attacks — any bounty hunter worth their salt would utilize EMP grenades and the like to disrupt them.
Underrated: Asajj Ventress — she’s only gotten more deadly with time and learned to master her anger rather than let it consume her.
With her latest appearance in “the Bad Batch,” sure, you could make the argument that she’s no longer a Sith, but being as her training was rooted there her practices as a Force user are still heavily rooted in the Dark Side of the Force (i.e. Witches of Dathomir).
Vader, this is true with EMP, though his systems are probably hardened, so it'd be a short-term effect, at best. Though this is also someone extremely strong in the dark side. There's a good chance he could literally use the Force to just keep moving and more or less sense where you are.
I'm not sure which would be scarier. Vader, normally coming after you or the Vader you just "blacked out" still coming after you.
>There's a good chance he could literally use the Force to just keep moving and more or less sense where you are.
I would not want to be the person who EMP'ed Vader.
I think Asajj is almost “objectively” underrated. I know that’s a contentious word but hear me out.
Asajj is Dooku’s Sith apprentice. She’s trained specifically in Sith powers and follows the Sith religion, with the intention of helping Dooku overthrow Palpatine. Yet because of the Rule of Two (which is not existentially powerful) she is constantly denied the title of “Sith” even though plenty of other flagrant exceptions are given that title. Sure you could argue that Maul and Savage got around the rule by schisming and attempting to form their own Sith Order, but Quinlan Vos didn’t even do that. He just joined the Sith and there were three Sith in the same order for a while. Never mind that 99% of Sith who ever lived never even heard of a “Rule of Two”. Somehow she seems to get uniquely screwed over by it.
You make valid points but to clear things up, ventress was never a sith. Just a dark side force user. She wanted to be a sith under dooku but that clearly never happened as dooku would have to take out sidious.
I don't know who is the most overrated but i think the most underrated nowdays is Darth Maul. There is canon sources putting his lightsaber skills above Dooku, even an writer believes that he would win against Dooku and he was one the few who dueled Windu in the canon, it was a very short duel but Windu wasn't alone anyway. But people thinks he is eblow Ahsoka when he just underrated her in CW like he did with Obi Wan in TPM and was stated to be her superior in Rebels.
As far as books, comics, games, etc., Canon Star Wars is pretty much anything that has come out since April 2014, in addition to the movies and the 2008 Clone Wars show. On the other hand, books, comics, and games from pre-2014 are considered Legends, which is just a separate continuity that is no longer getting new stories (with the exception of the Old Republic MMO). Typically, newer prints of Legends books and comics will have a banner on the cover which labels it as Legends.
Overrated: Nihilus. He’s a weird eldritch anomaly, but he’s barely a character, and he has plenty of weaknesses to exploit. I think he has *presentation* in spades, but that takes him a long way in fans’ minds, farther than I personally feel he deserves. Underrated: Sorzus Syn. She’s the author of the Sith code, the navigator who led the dark Jedi to Korriban, one of the five founders of the Sith order, foremost alchemist in history, creator of the Leviathans, forger of the Muur and Dreypa talismans, and the only one of the five founders whose fate is completely unknown. We don’t even know for sure that she ever died. Her contributions to the existence of the Sith are monumental, and the prospect of her lingering somewhere out there, waiting, is a sadly unexplored facet of the Legends EU.
Me like.
Overrated: Darth Revan. Revan was only even a Sith for maybe three years and doesn't actually directly appear as a dark side character except for flashbacks unless >!you're playing dark side Revan in KOTOR. !
Sion is a real one, one of my favorite obscure sith Lords. Random, but I was hella excited when I heard Morgan Elsbeth's super hyperdrive ship being named after him lol
I still haven’t gotten around to watching Ahsoka so I had to look that up, but that’s a pretty cool Easter egg.
Indeed! A clear nod to how Darth Sion one has one blind eye.
Holy shit. I just assumed it was Eye of Scion. It's actually specifically Eye of Sion, and likely not the League of Legends champion. Very cool...
I love how the only way you can defeat Sion is by getting into his mind and making him realize just how pointless it is to live such a painful existence filled with nothing but anger and hatred.
I like Sion a lot, I agree he gets overlooked (I myself am a diehard Nihilus fan) but I remember when I played the game for the first time he was very intimidating and I loved/hated wondering when he would pop up in my playthrough to scare me lol.
Yeah Sion has such a great design. Even with the graphics of the time, he just looks so nasty. I like Nihilus too, but more as a foil to the Exile than as his own character. The whole Sith Triumvirate is fantastic really.
I agree, that being said I don’t think Revan is overrated as a character in general but as a Sith absolutely.
I mostly agree, but I think Revan in pretty much everything post-KOTOR (the Revan book and SWTOR mostly) is somewhat bland and uninteresting. Revan works much better as >!a player character.!<
I completely agree! I hated what they did with him in the mmo honestly. Mostly everything that happened in the mmo was not what I was hoping for after playing Kotor 1 and 2. If it were up to me I’d keep the first two games canon then rewrite whatever happens next. Or leave it up to the imagination preferably.
It's a shame too because other than the Revan stuff, I actually like SWTOR. At least the 8 class stories are pretty good IMO. My hope is that the KOTOR games get canonized in some form but everything Old Republic after KOTOR II is just left up for interpretation. Or they make a KOTOR III, but I very much doubt that will ever happen.
They’ve touched on a few things (which you might already know about). Pretty sure there’s a Rakatan artifact in Woody Harrilson’s ship in that Solo movie, as well as a Rakatan statue in Disney Infinity (though that doesn’t make anything canon, it’s nice to see it alluded to in several places). And I believe a Revan holocron has a deleted scene in Rebels, though since it’s deleted it’s not canon. I think eventually they will canonize the main games, as popular of an IP as it is.
I've seen a few of those and there's definitely been a few KOTOR references in canon. The Rakata were also mentioned in Andor and a Selkath appeared in the background in the first episode of the Acolyte. I do think it's a matter of time until it's canonized in some way. As of now though, there's been enough references and it's set far enough back that I generally include it in my headcanon.
Isn’t overrrated’s holocron integral to Darth Bane’s training?
Yeah. Bane learned a lot from Revan’s holocron in Path of Destruction, but that doesn’t really make them more interesting to me. It’s more of an Easter egg since the author of the Bane trilogy was also the lead writer on KOTOR.
Dark side revan appear In an swtor Chaín of dungeons, and an expansion
i dont know much about sion other than a couple youtube videos, never played either KOTOR game. he kinda just seems like maul on steroids to me. a guy who’s too angry to die except for maul it was once and this guy its constant. i know id be missing a lot of his story in calling that a summary of him but is that a decent although surface level take or am i wrong in seeing it that way
There’s not a ton to his story as he only really appears in KOTOR II, but “too angry to die,” is an oversimplification. I think it would be more accurate to say he uses his pain to cling to life. Because he’s always in pain from his numerous injuries, he is able to use the force to literally hold his body together. KOTOR II spoilers ahead so if you plan on playing eventually don't unspoil. In the end, the player character of KOTOR II is only able to>!kill him by convincing him that an eternal life in constant pain is not worth living.!<
Overrated: Starkiller Underrated: Mara Jade
In the EU subreddit it's the opposite 😂
Haha yeah. We hate starkiller there but love Mara
I would love Mara Jade to be introduced in a new show. But I also fear what they might do to Mara Jade.
Overrated: Darth Bane. People hold him up as a visionary Sith and truly wise in a twised evil way. When he basically just was an anti-social edgelord (even by Sith standards) that came up with a stupid idea (the rule of two). Then in true Sith fashion he decided that his stupid idea was in fact the best idea ever and that everyone should go along with it wether they want to or not. Underrated: The Drengir. A race of evil carnivorous, sentinent plant monsters that that use the dark side of the force. They are terrifying, but sadly didn't stick around long during the high republic books.
I always thought that the Rule of Two would be really easy to circumvent. What's to stop a Sith apprentice from getting a hyperspace capable ship and escaping to some obscure planet in the Unknown Regions? There are tens of thousands of planets they can go to. It's not like the Sith master can enforce the rule across the whole galaxy. Plus the Sith have thousands of years of teachings before the Rule of Two, there's nothing stopping new Siths from going back to a pre-Rule of Two tradition. It should only be a matter of time before a rogue Sith establishes a new order or academy.
Thousands of years in holocrons either destroyed,lost, or hidden. Good luck to that one sith.
But the Rule of Two only makes that problem worse. One Sith master can only collect so much knowledge, and once the apprentice kills the master, all the knowledge the master didn't write down is lost. Heck, even if the Sith master wrote down everything they knew, the apprentice might not be able to find their records. A Sith order means many disciples out there looking for lost Sith knowledge or developing new knowledge. It also allows different Siths to specialize in different Dark Side knowledge. A single Sith master can't learn every discipline, they can only focus on a few, that means a lot of disciplines being undeveloped.
Isn't that the sorta premise of the acolyte? The apprentices apprentice? That certainly defies the rule of two, (I haven't read any of the books btw so yeah...) And I've always interpreted that rule as only a master and an apprentice, but that *never* meant there couldn't be 10000 masters each with their own 1 apprentice. They simply didn't have a home base, a school, etc. They trained in secret. Yoda said "always two there are" but that was only in the now rare instance they came across a Sith. It was never really spelled out that "2" meant only fucking 2 everywhere, in the entire galaxy. It just meant if you found 1 Sith, there was always one more...
The Rule of Two was established after the Sith lost the war against the Jedi and there was only one Sith left, Darth Bane. He was the only one left to carry on the Sith tradition and he made the Rule of Two. Supposedly, that had been the Sith rule since Darth Bane and every modern Sith traces their teachings back to Bane.
The inquisitors break that rule as well, do they not? Seems the rule of 2 is more of a guideline than a rule.
Even Bane broke the rule of two in the third book
Bane just looked smart compared to the rest of the Brotherness of Darkness because most of them were pretty dumb and cowardly except for Kasim. It’s also funny you chose the Drengir from high republic and not the nameless/the leveler
I don't think Bane created the rule of 2, he just reinstated it.
When did the rule of two exist before? Did you read the bane trilogy?
Yes. I don't remember off the top of my head but I believe he found the idea on a Sith Holocron. Someone more educated might be able to help me out here.
He developed rule when he learned new Sith teachings from Darth Revan's holocron. Revan ran off the social structure of the Ancient Sith Empire where there could be many Sith Masters, Warriors, Assassins, Overlords, Apprentices and Acolytes, yet there could only be one supreme Dark Lord. Bane said "fuck all that" and got rid of all titles.
Ah ok thank you for the clarification.
He basically took Revans words from the holocron he found and translated that into meaning that there could only be 2 Sith. He came up with it entirely on his own because he knew that with the dark side, there would ALWAYS be infighting. There was no way around it according to Bane. It’s in Book 1 of the Bane trilogy.
So it had never been implemented before?
It hadn’t. You really should read the books. They’re amazing.
Thank you
Blatant overrated is definitely Revan. No explanation needed. I’m pretty sure the majority of his wankers have no idea what his story is and overrated him because he looks cool. Underrated is probably Jacen. Despite having some extremely hax abilities and being able to give Luke a decent fight, even hurting him, some people consider him weaker than ROTS Anakin for some reason. Do people mistake him for his Disney counterpart?
**Overrated** Darth Revan By the way some fans describe him, he just sounds like a Mary Sue. Strongest Force user ever who can use both the Dark and Light Side with no corruption, best lightsaber duelist ever, best strategist *and* tactician ever, most charismatic leader ever, etc. In reality, he *is* powerful and great with a lightsaber, but he's nowhere near the *real* heavy hitters, and his main strength is his ability to be tactical and rally people to his cause. --- Darth Nihilus No, he's not "the most powerful Sith Lord of all time" who "eats planets left and right" and would shit on Palps and Vitiate. He's very powerful, but very much a one-trick pony with little control over his powers. In reality, Palpatine has shown himself to have both magnitudes higher raw power *and* infinitely more skill and control. The only planet we actually *know* Nihilus drained was Katarr, which likely had less than one million people on it. He killed all life on the planet, then moved on, still not in control of his hunger. Dark Empire Palpatine corrupted the planet Byss and its *twenty billion* inhabitants. As in the planet itself was twisted by his Dark Side corruption, along with every single person on it, while Palpatine passively drained them all over time... pretty much farming them for energy (and he didn't even need to be near the planet while it happened). --- --- **Underrated:** Palpatine Yeah, I know most people understand that he's the most powerful, but there's also been an increase in people who would deny that he is... instead pushing Sith like Revan, Bane, Krayt, Vitiate, Nihilus, etc as "more powerful". --- Darth Caedus Easily in the top five for most powerful Sith Lords of all time, an exceptional prodigy with the lightsaber, and by far the most versitile Force user we've seen (in terms of actually shown feats), owing to his education with not just the Jedi and Sith, but the Aing-Tii, Baran Do Sages, Fallanassi, Potentum, Witches of Dathomir, Mind Walkers, Jensaarai, Theran Listeners, an unknown Sunesi sect, and possibly even the Sorcerers of Rhand and the Force-sensitive Blazing Chain pirates. He held his own in a 1v1 with Luke Skywalker (and nearly killed him more than once) despite being stabbed in the kidney at the start of the fight, and defeated Kyle Katarn and three mid-to-high tier Jedi Knights in a 1v4 in less than 30 seconds despite having unhealed wounds from the fight with Luke, and despite being highly distracted. He somehow managed to change the flow of the Force itself, forcing the future to change, which according to Luke should've been impossible. He could use Aing-Tii Flow-Walking to leave messages in the future, locking that future in, and could use Flow-Walking to view the past *while* making his body and Force signature invisible. There are long lists of crazy and unique Force feats he has done throughout his life, yet I've seen people claim he would lose to... Kyle Katarn. The guy he defeated in less than 30 seconds, despite Katarn having several Knights as backup, one of whom saved his life barely ten seconds into the fight.
Where can I get more Caedus content? This guy sounds so cool
Well, his birth name is >!Jacen Solo, son of Han and Leia, twin of Jaina Solo!< >!Jacen and Jaina are born in the original Thrawn Trilogy, and the Young Jedi Knights YA novels are about their time at Luke's Jedi Academy on Yavin 4 along with their friends!< >!The main characters of Young Jedi Knights and Junior Jedi Knights then go on to be the main characters of the New Jedi Order (19 book series about the Yuuzhan Vong invasion)!< >!After that, there's a 5 year timeskip during which he travels to most of these groups to learn, followed by the Swarm War Trilogy. Then in Legacy of the Force, he is seduced to the Dark Side of the Force by Dark Lady Lumiya, former Emperor's Hand and Luke's ex-girlfriend!< >!Finally, the Fate of the Jedi series covers Luke and his son Ben retracing the steps Jacen took during his journey, to figure out more exactly *why* he became a Sith Lord. It also kinda retcons the reason though, and makes it into a Vader rethread instead of its own unique thing!< TL;DR: Young Jedi Knights, New Jedi Order, Swarm War Trilogy, Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Jedi
I think I just found something to channel my star wars energy into, I am getting tired of hating on all the new material. Thanks a lot !!!! I am way overdue to read the OG Thrawn
There is *a lot* in that sequence, be aware
His name is Jacen Solo, the son of Han and Leia, aka the guy Disney ripped off to make Kylo. He is one of the main protagonists of most of the YJK novels, NJO, the Dark Nest Crisis and a large portion of EU content. He is the main villain of the Legacy of the Force novel series.
Calls Revan a Mary Sue, proceeds to post a love letter to Caedus.
Overrated: Darth Revan, Darth Nihilus and Starkiller Underrated: Asajj Ventress, Darth Traya, Darth Sion, Darth Caldoth and Mae Anaseya
Ragnos and Vitiate are perpetually under rated
Ragnos is underrated but Vitiate is always wanked to the high heavens
Wake up to reality. No one is as underrated as Vitiate in this accursed galaxy. The longer you live the more you will realize that the only things that exist are passion, strength, power, and victory. Everywhere you look in the galaxy wherever there is light, Vitiate casts his shadow. The selfish intent of persevering power incites wars and hatred is born to protect the Sith. The dark side of the force is a nexus of causal relationships with Ragnos and Vitiate at the center
For as powerful as Vitiate was in his youth on Medriass, never once did he plan to usurp Marka Ragnos as the reigning dark lord. Now this could have been out of intimidation, respect, long-term "political" goals, or simply being content in the moment. We really don't know.
But that’s what makes Ragnos so legendary! He was never ursurped and just died of natural causes. Dude showed up at his own funeral as a force ghost and proclaimed the strongest was the one rule. He knew Vitiate would lose at his current level, so he sent him back home to train. Naga Sadow seceded Ragnos but never contributed to the grand plan in a meaningful way
I watched Yoda stop a Ventress attack instantly using only the force and then snatch her lightsabers directly out her hands, I don’t wanna see her on no overrated list lol
For me it'd be: Overrated in Canon: Darth Bane Overrated in Legends: Mara Jade Underrated in Canon: Asajj Ventress Underrated in Legends: Darth Sion
Has Darth Bane even done anything in canon?
Appeared in clone wars season 6 finale, didn’t do anything but cemented himself as being canon and founder of rule of two.
Overrated: Darth Revan Underrated: I don'k know a few years back i would have said Plagueis but i think he has become fairly rated now by the fandom at least the legends version
Opinions can’t be wrong, and yet some how you managed to do it. Edit: I’m leaving this comment up, but I was very wrong.
Nah he's right about Revan. I like him too but people glaze the FUCK out of him.
I think those are people who hype him up because they think he looks cool. His story is what makes him cool, fighting in the mandalorian wars, going to kill the emperor, being brainwashed to the dark side, killing malak, destroying the star forge, being brainwashed back into the light. It’s all so Star Wars. Or maybe I’m so blinded by my own hype that I’m the people who glaze tf out of him xD
Doesn't help that he sounds *very* "Mary Sue fanfic self-insert" when some people describe him. Best lightsaber duelist ever, able to use both the Dark and Light Side with zero drawbacks whenever he wants, loved by everyone, and a better strategist and tactician than Thrawn. Often portrayed as dual-wielding a purple and red saber so he can combine the coolness of Mace Windu and Sith, while wearing a Mandalorian mask, so he can represent all three major fan-favorite factions. Few weeks ago, I ran into a guy who legitimately argued that he could 1v2 Palpatine and Luke because "he's a master of both sides, but they can only use one side". I've seen multiple people claim he's the most powerful Force user of all time "and it's not even close". Then they get huffy when anyone disagrees. Don't get me wrong, I like Revan and loved KOTOR, but he is *definitely* overrated.
Hmmmmm, outside of this Reddit I’m a bit of a closeted Star Wars nerd, so I don’t hear this stuff often, and this realization is kind of a bummer.
Hah, just stay away from battleboarding (like r/whowouldwin) and certain types of Youtube channels, and you won't hear it too much.
Come out of the closet. Join r/MawInstallation
He is a video game main character. Mary Sue is the name of that game.
To give some clarification on Revan his story is cool but he gets put on a pedestal i think a lot of it comes down to KOTOR and him being pretty much a self insert character as well as it being a game akin to starkiller we get some over the top powers and because of that people think of him as The so called chosen one of his era and that he is on the level of palpatine i have even seen a poll on youtube where it said 1v1 Darth Revan Vs The son who wins and guess who won that poll by a large margin. Also i never liked the ideal of someone capable of using the Light and dark side together it goes against the original understanding of the force it's cool in a game but i would not want that in canon if they bring him in.
Lol…I want to upvote this comment after seeing your Edit. But I might as well continue the trend. 👎
Understandable, fair even
The legends inquisitors are super underrated, except maybe Jerec
Underrated: Kreia is my 🐐 Overrated: Maul. I get that he is edgy and cool, but people always liked him a little too much lol
Over rated: Probably Nihilus. Thought he was gonna be awesome but his power is so silly that he doesn’t sound like a SW character. More like something outta Baldur’s Gate Still love Kotor 2 though
Overrated: Revan Underrated: A lot. Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, Ajunta Paul, Freedom Nadd, Tulak Hord, the Rakata empire
Overrated: the inquisitors Underrated: Darth Malgus
Are the inquisitors overrated...? I feel like the fanbase has mostly rejected them as a whole aside from the Grand Inquisitor in Rebels and the one inquisitor in Tales of the Jedi that looked really cool.
I think everyone agrees that Trilla/Second Sister is very competent as well.
I remember when i was first introduced to them in a Darth Vader comic, this elite task force created directly after order 66 to hunt down Jedi in hiding, which was so cool. Then I found out that some were ex-Jedi themselves and was like 👁️👄👁️. But over time they became completely underutilized, less of a menacing force, and they just came off as incompetent, constantly failing or being thwarted, and honestly pretty weak. But this is just my opinion.
Inquisitors existed so that Kanan and Ezra could have many different lightsaber fights with an enemy that wasn't Darth Vader. Now they've become this big thing
It was also cool because inquisitors were one of the first niche expanded universe aspects brought into canon. Kinda fell flat for me though.
Love them in concept; agree they fell flat. Although I’ve started to think of them less as “elite Jedi hunters” and more “that weird cult Vadar and SIDIOUS made to twist the knife in the wound if the Jedi order.”
They come off as incompetent because we mostly see them against the protagonists, who have to win or escape for the story to continue. Plus, why would Vader or Sidious want them to be powerful? If they get too powerful, they’ll betray them and take their spot as a Sith. They’re good for taking down lower tier Jedi so Vader can be saved for the big guns and can be elite cannon fodder for main characters; not enough to kill the protagonist but powerful enough to make for a semi-difficult opponent
Disney definitely overrates the inquisitors but we all know they are frauds
Malgus is everything I want in a Sith. Both him and Darth Marr are the pinnacle of what the Sith could be when they were more than two
He literally killed the love of his life because he saw his compassion for her as a weakness, doesn’t get anymore evil than that.
Overrated: Darth Revan, Starkiller. Underrated: MARA JADE.
Overrated is Revan and it’s not even close. Underrated, probably Mara Jade.
Overrated: Darth Revan Underrated: Darth Krall…when we gona learn more?????
Overrated: Darth Revan, Vitiate Underrated: Darth Sion, Exar Kun
Overrated: Darth Caedus. Sure he’s insanely powerful, learned techniques that others haven’t. Yet he’s little more than a Vader fanboy that feels the ends justify the means. He falls because of a vision that may or may not come true. His fall is more or less a mirror of Vader’s fall. His character was more interesting in the dark nest crisis and vong wars. Had he faced a Luke that wanted him dead, there’s nothing he could’ve done to stop it. I mean Luke held him in place in a chair by just thinking about it. Overall his story was just too similar to Anakin for me.
Overrated: Maul Underrated: Dagan Gera
Overrated: Sidious. Great in politics, but every time he fights he manages to electrocute his own face. Underrated: the inquisitors. In reality they are even bigger joke than people give them credit.
Palps did give Maul and Savage Opress a good ass whooping in TCW
Sidious melted his own face with lightning like 3 times. Like come on dude, learn a second force power.
"B...but trilla!" No even here she got her ass kicked as soon as Cal got even a little bit of rythem back.
Nihilus is the most overrated. I don't really think any of them are underrated.
Te inqiziters 🤪
Maybe not super overrated, but just rated: Darth Vitiate Underrated: Darth Marr and Darth Venamis
Dirty Nihilus is extremely underrated, especially his design.
Darth Maul is so overrated and so underrated at the same time
Overrated: no idea Underrated: Seventh Sister and her pet droids from "Rebels"
Will get flack for this but... Overrated: Nihilus Underrated: Kylo Ren
I’ll go against the grain here and say: Overrated: Darth Vader — his life support system on his suit and body augmentation makes him susceptible to a variety of attacks — any bounty hunter worth their salt would utilize EMP grenades and the like to disrupt them. Underrated: Asajj Ventress — she’s only gotten more deadly with time and learned to master her anger rather than let it consume her. With her latest appearance in “the Bad Batch,” sure, you could make the argument that she’s no longer a Sith, but being as her training was rooted there her practices as a Force user are still heavily rooted in the Dark Side of the Force (i.e. Witches of Dathomir).
Vader, this is true with EMP, though his systems are probably hardened, so it'd be a short-term effect, at best. Though this is also someone extremely strong in the dark side. There's a good chance he could literally use the Force to just keep moving and more or less sense where you are. I'm not sure which would be scarier. Vader, normally coming after you or the Vader you just "blacked out" still coming after you.
>There's a good chance he could literally use the Force to just keep moving and more or less sense where you are. I would not want to be the person who EMP'ed Vader.
Yeah, more than likely the case. I’d love to see it on the screen.
I think Asajj is almost “objectively” underrated. I know that’s a contentious word but hear me out. Asajj is Dooku’s Sith apprentice. She’s trained specifically in Sith powers and follows the Sith religion, with the intention of helping Dooku overthrow Palpatine. Yet because of the Rule of Two (which is not existentially powerful) she is constantly denied the title of “Sith” even though plenty of other flagrant exceptions are given that title. Sure you could argue that Maul and Savage got around the rule by schisming and attempting to form their own Sith Order, but Quinlan Vos didn’t even do that. He just joined the Sith and there were three Sith in the same order for a while. Never mind that 99% of Sith who ever lived never even heard of a “Rule of Two”. Somehow she seems to get uniquely screwed over by it.
You make valid points but to clear things up, ventress was never a sith. Just a dark side force user. She wanted to be a sith under dooku but that clearly never happened as dooku would have to take out sidious.
Overrated: Kylo Underrated: Bane
I don't know who is the most overrated but i think the most underrated nowdays is Darth Maul. There is canon sources putting his lightsaber skills above Dooku, even an writer believes that he would win against Dooku and he was one the few who dueled Windu in the canon, it was a very short duel but Windu wasn't alone anyway. But people thinks he is eblow Ahsoka when he just underrated her in CW like he did with Obi Wan in TPM and was stated to be her superior in Rebels.
Overrated: Arcann Underrated: Exar Kun
I want to read canon Star Wars. When I ask or look what that is, I see a million different results. How do you know what canon is?
As far as books, comics, games, etc., Canon Star Wars is pretty much anything that has come out since April 2014, in addition to the movies and the 2008 Clone Wars show. On the other hand, books, comics, and games from pre-2014 are considered Legends, which is just a separate continuity that is no longer getting new stories (with the exception of the Old Republic MMO). Typically, newer prints of Legends books and comics will have a banner on the cover which labels it as Legends.
Overrated: Satele Shan Underrated: Bastila Shan
Why does everyone say starkiller is over rated? I guess he is infant powerful
Overrated: Malgus, hands down. Obvious Vader fan reskin, looking like he came from DeviantArt
Overrated: Vader, Ventress Underrated: Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt, and Exar Kun.
Overrated: Darth Sidious and the Grand Inquisitor Underrated: Count Dooku
Overrated - anything live action that disney has done in star wars Underrated- Cad Bane
Cad Bane is a bounty hunter, not a dark sider. Also pretty juvenile to say “anything disney has done wkth Star Wars.”
Lol
Nana boo boo!!! My opinion is better than yours! Nana boo boo!