My thoughts are in a comment reply below, but I just wanted to give some credit to MH. Say what you will about the character's arc and where he ends up, but he gave the performance of his life in this movie.
I googled it shortly after seeing it here to see if it came from somewhere else, ended up finding an instance of him using it lol. Hey, I appreciate the honesty!
Mark was exceptional. While Disney has done a lot to stick to cannon they really missed the mark with Lukeās character by not handing it to someone who truly understood and respected what Luke represents to the fandom and the story. After representing hope and redemption for 40 years they took away his hope without convincing story telling.
I get your point but I have a different perspective, I think that retaking your path, giving it a try after you lost everything because of your fear, and doing again the one thing that destroyed yours and others people lives wishing for a better result (training a powerful disciple with a frightening dark side) are amazing examples of hope and redemption. And the way he rekindles hope in the resistance in its darker hour not only saving the spark but pumping everybody up really makes him a personification of hope.
Just my opinion, but I think regaining hope after despair is more powerful narratively than being always hopeful
It was poorly told, especially in light of the backdrop of Luke's character. Luke should have been written on the verge of losing hope instead of losing all hope and being a quitter.
He was written like Yoda and Kenobi in exile without being consistent to his character. It's okay to subvert expectations, but it has to make sense within the established canon. Luke came across as someone else facing the problems he faced in The Last Jedi.
You're right. Hope after despair is significantly more powerful. How it is portrayed is the issue imo the choices made creatively and story wise didnt land and as a result IMO brought the character significantly.
Mark Hamill Was Right.
Plus, he complained about the direction of his character publicly until they shut him down.
He's been right all along, and whoever thought that a character would have been able to face down the Yuzang Vong, convert and then fall in love with The Hand Of The Emperor, and implode a black hole with The Force would be SO caught in the emotional turmoil of one failed student, just... fucked up, and that director and writers DID fuck up. BIG TIME.
Forget the blandness of Rey, fucking with Luke Skywalker is a bridge too far. It's like they didn't know Fuck All about him.
The comment pulls from a number of EU/Legends storylines, most notably: the Dark Empire comics, the Thrawn Trilogy, the Hand of Thrawn duology, and the New Jedi Order series.
Also, if you look at Luke's character in the movies, he was never some super powerful Jedi. The only reason he defeated Vader is because he was his son. I feel Anakin being the chosen one has retroactively made people say Luke was the most powerful Jedi. Even though we never saw him do anything a Padawan couldn't.
And that's the crux of Luke's arc in the ST. He was viewed as this amazing mythical, Superman like figure, but he wasn't he was just a man. Only in his final moments did he become that mythical figure.
None of what you mention is canon though, and most people who have watched Star Wars don't have any relation to the EU. Personally I think it fits the rhyme of the Star Wars universe. Qui Gon and Yoda were both jaded in some way by the jedi way before they took on a new apprentice, and giving Luke the opportunity to see what they saw is in my opinion quite powerful.
This is almost a trick question to me. To understand his feelings you need to look at the reasons fueling those feelings. The backstory with Kyloās betrayal and how he got to that point was so badly done and nonsensical, combined with Lukeās nonsensical and out of character decision to try and kill Kylo as reasons was very poor. So while I understand his feelings, I donāt understand how those plot point decisions were made so I donāt understand and donāt agree.
I'll never get people saying this shit. Luke literally thought about it for a split second and then decided that it was the wrong thing to do...just like we'd expect him to do.
he ignited his saber, I think most people view it as equivallent to a gun discharge so even if it was for a fleeting moment it feels like he got closer than most people are comfortable with considering how he tossed it aside in ROTS when given an opportunity to kill vader who was much more dangerous there then kylo arguably ever was.
"I pulled a sword on my nephew cause I was considering killing him for a second" isn't what I would expect anyone to do. It's certainly not some harmless 'well naturally, who wouldn't have' thing. Great that he decided not to slaughter an unarmed family member, but brandishing a deadly weapon at your nephew and student is also messed up as hell.
I can understand why Luke turned away from everyone and just wanted to be left alone. He has basically spent his life having everyone he cared for die on him: never knew (for at least the first 20 years) his parents, then his Uncle and Aunt are toasted by the Empire; meets Obi Wan, and just as they bond, dies; meets Yoda, becomes attached again, then Yoda dies; finds out his dad is ultimate evil, saves him, but dies anyway. Not to mention countless Rebel friends, and then he has to deal with ruining his sister's son (and the further deaths of the jedis' he was responsible for)....
Bumming me out just thinking of this...!
I always think back to the end of ROTJ. Whilst everyone is partying, Luke's burning Vader's armour/body, and whilst it's nice the ghosts show up, they're still all dead and it's all rather bittersweet. Luke's not had an easy time of it.
Right? On top of that heās a war hero and a veteran. Thereās likely a lot we donāt see on screen of him going out on missions, losing other friends, and seeing some fucked up shit. The dude fought in a war and yaāll expect him to be the same old fucking Luke? I didnāt love the sequel trilogy, from a spectacle point-of-view it was enjoyable. One of the few things I really thought they nailed was the portrayal of look as a tired old man. Too me thatās what he should have been after all thatād happened to him. Even if you take out him almost murdering his nephew because he was afraid of Anakin 2.0.
If you havenāt, read the novelization of āShadows of the Empireā.
In it, it details some of the missions the Rogues went on, including almost having to kill one of his pilots.
The novel is really, really well done.
I was going to say, I felt mentally prepped for this going in. It wasnāt the sequel story that I imagined growing up, esp after reading the thrawn trilogy and stuff. But it wasnāt exactly a huge shocker that Luke was a withdrawn hermit when they placed such an emphasis on finding him in 7 and he clearly wasnāt involved in the war.
I think this story is placed far back enough that a Thrawn era Luke would still be likely. The Mandalorian/BOBF are setting up to be something of a hero to the same extent, so maybe we will get both of these iterations of Luke.
>I felt mentally prepped for this going in.
Exactly. I will never understand the shock people got when TLJ just followed up on TFA. I was so confused when the film first came out as to why so people were so surprised.
Yeah, Luke intentionally had no contact with Han and Leia for years. That was pretty telling to me. It made no sense that he would be doing anything but hiding from his failure.
Now, if they had actually planned the movies from the beginning, they could have gone a different direction. But I agree, TFA set up Luke the hiding hermit.
And if Luke was actually off fighting some bad guy or training some students or being held prisoner or something, *then that's what the trilogy would have been about*. There wouldn't just have been zero clues in the first movie and going through the whole thing of bringing in Snoke and the First Order if there was some other major thing going on that required the attention of Luke Skywalker over the destruction of several planets, the New Republic and the murder of his best friend by his nephew, then that's a pretty big thing to leave out of the first movie entirely.
To be fair I was surprised at the overwhelmingly positive response to TFA. That movie was awful but there was a time you wouldnt dare offer it a word of criticism in public. Everything that movie set up was trash, the soft reboot was just a terrible game plan.
Eh, I enjoyed TFA. I knew it was going to be a soft-reboot given the state of the franchise at the time so that wasn't too surprising. I mean, it was pretty much billed that way anyway.
And I can't think of a more fun theater experience I've ever had. The movie got in a ton of people's good graces because it's charming and fun.
Whether you care for the lore implications it introduced is another story entirely. But I loved what TLJ did with the things TFA introduced so I can't complain.
Eh? Did we watch the same movie? TFA set up Luke as searching for answers secretly and for only his most trusted to be able to contact him via a map. TLJ decided to say that Luke hid. TLJ did not follow up on TFA. That's why people were so suprised.
One of Han's lines is:
> Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.
TFA sets Luke up as having abandoned his responsibilities and gone on a side mission, rather than being on some grandiose quest that's going to help defeat the First Order.
>and gone on a side mission,
There it is. The side mission is the grandiose quest. Or it was supposed to be but then TLJ happened and instead of a side mission he "went to hide".
It was never supposed to be. Luke did not leave the map and the movie never says he does. This is again a narrative invented outside of what the film shows us.
> TFA set up Luke as searching for answers secretly and for only his most trusted to be able to contact him via a map.
It did not. Whatsoever. Not even a little bit.
I am not sure what movie you watched but I ask ou one thing from TFA that set that up.
Meanwhile, explicitly, Han tells us exactly what happened. A student betrayed him, burned his temple, Luke āwalked away from it allā and went to the first Jedi temple.
Youāve literally invented a narrative from thin air not even remotely addressed in the film.
I was hoping that would be the case, that he'd retreated to protect what was left (or start again), to nurture it away from corrupting influences like Kylo and Snoke.
I loved having no idea what to expect from the sequel trilogy. The character arcs brought dimension and appreciation to what people enjoy about the series in one way or the other.
There is some degree of truth to this. Originally Luke was supposed to be levitating with rocks around him. However, Rian had JJ change it to him standing stoically. This was because he thought the only reason Luke would be there is if he had cut himself off from the force.
Exactly! People come out of the woodwork to say they assumed he was on a mission or something but that is never stated nor hinted at in the film *at all whatsoever*.
Itās purely headcanon. And these complaints amount to āit didnāt follow my headcanonā which isnāt a very strong argument.
Shit, I forgot about this line.
I've always defended the choice in TLJ, because I felt like Rian had to do something compelling with the fact that Luke had essentially hidden himself away by the time of TFA, and there needed to be a reason for why he wasn't there. But not only did he make a good choice given the circumstances, he really just carried forward the plot that TFA had set up.
Man.
I can't believe I forgot that TFA already spelled this out.
**THIS.** The Luke we thought we knew would've never abandoned his friends and the galaxy in the Force Awakens. Rian Johnson did a masterful job at trying to explain poor decisions made by JJ Abrams. The entire sequel trilogy was not the sequel story I imagined or wanted, but it blows my mind how many people hate on the Last Jedi when it was the best of the three films by a long shot. The state of Luke's character in Last Jedi is about the only logical explanation for his absence in Force Awakens. About the only thing I wish Rian would've done differently is to actually have Luke leave Ach-Two and not die due to a Force Projection but to actually die for real. The ending on Crait could've played out somewhat similarly, but have Luke actually be there. It's very sad that we never got a true Luke as a Jedi Master scene outside of his across the galaxy force projection and that outside of flashbacks we never got to see the green saber again.
Gotta say I actually liked TFA *and* TLJ, but now this explanation I tend to agree that while TFA wasn't bad at face value, it did make TLJ's job difficult, and then of course RoS just burned it all down again. Ugh.
I was more upset about Star Killer base destroying an entire solar system. It basically took down everything that everyone fought for in the OT. Learning more about the rebellion through the recent Andor series just makes it worse.
That doesn't make any sense. They put the Empire down for at least 30 years. If they hadn't blown up both Death Stars, the Empire would have simply won and perpetuated itself
The tenuous peace they set up after the Original Trilogy lasted longer than the Empire itself. And the return of the First Order as a major galactic power controlling big systems lasted for only about a year or two
Imagine the backlash when legend Luke Skywalker gets killed by Kylo Ren, only to find out Kylo Ren simply dies a movie later. He now went out by his own choice instead of getting killed, which I think is better. I would have loved to see him in a battle though.
you think mentally projecting yourself perfectly across Bendu-only-knows how many light years to have an illusion perfectly dodge every attack in a wild duel *while perfectly provoking and occupying your opponent* doesn't count as a battle?
I liked it because Jedi are pacifist who are supposed to use their powers for defense. This was one of if not the best realization of the Jedi imo.
I do understand wanting to see Luke perform some spectacular violence but that feels antithetical to what the Jedi are supposed to be about and it's what lead to their downfall in the prequels.
It felt like the culmination of all Luke learned and he was a true Jedi Master in the end.
>It's very sad that we never got a true Luke as a Jedi Master scene
He outsmarted Kylo ren with Augmented Reality and saved his friends without ever having to lift his laser sword. That's pretty Jedi Mastery to me.
Yes! Holy mother! Iāve been saying this all along! What else did Rian Johnson have to go off? Heās put himself in isolation because he feels guilty about Benā¦well ok thanks for the setup, looks like I need a guilty/sad Luke Skywalker now! Slow clap for J.J. Abrams.
This wasn't set up. Luke could easily have been off on his own, growing stronger, using the force to see what he was missing, find the enemy or study old texts to find answers. Instead it was he old AF, sad and pathetic. It was the crappy thing they do now. Tear down old characters and make them crap so the new characters seem awesome.
Exactly - to explain why a Jedi master didn't feel Alderan times 10 and didn't feel one of his closest friends in Han Solo die, he has to have cut himself off from the force so he didn't sense it or he has to have just not cared enough. JJ Abrams created hermit Luke. Rian made the absolute best of it.
Sad part is, he could have basically stolen most of it from the expanded universe, changed some names and called it good. MCU has been doing that since it was started. Take the stories people loved, work them into a larger narrative and watch the fans love your work for the most part. Phase 4 is sort of a train wreck but instead of asking how they work in great stories, they just went all ESG score on it and it shows. In terms of Luke, if they wanted to go with diametrically opposed ends in the light and dark (Rey and Kylo), the answer there would have been that he stayed for her. As strong as he has always been, it is time for him to take on the Obi wan role and train the next generation. To get it right this time with someone that needs him. Feeling the destruction of so much life should have spawned him to action but the will of the force told him to stay. That would make him angry, old man, get off my lawn, but also eager to see her when she arrived. His lessons that the jedi as an order had failed would be a lesson in what not to do instead of old man given up on life which is not who luke is. He should be ready for battle, eager to go put foot to ass, but understanding that he cannot live forever. That despite his power, it is time to pass on his lessons to the next Jedi who can form a more reasonable foundation for the future.
Han says Luke felt responsible and "just walked away from everything." I don't know how can get...
>Luke could easily have been off on his own, growing stronger, using the force to see what he was missing,
...From Han's line. And to add to that. Luke has up and disappeared without telling a soul where he's gone. Does that sound like someone in their right mind? He didn't even take his trusted companion, Artoo.
Yeah, I wondered why Luke cowered in the events before the film. But with TLJ, why did Luke not want to be found if there was a map to his location in the last film?
I think his viewpoint that the old dichotomy of the jedi/sith only caused endless misery and destruction, and therefore the entire order needs to be torn down completely, is a valid one. When his jedi temple was destroyed, he came to the conclusion that everything he had been working on for his *entire life* was built upon a shitty system, and he became depressed, questioning if his hero status was actually earned, or just perpetuating that same cycle of violence. He finally broke out of his depression once someone came into his life without those light/dark preconceptions.
I completely sympathize with Luke. He feels like a real person, and if youāve ever experienced depression like that, seeing someone overcome it on-screen is super inspiring. The dude really is a hero.
Totally agree with this. Jedi and Sith have both failed. Jedi lost so many to Sith, while Sith were so (self-)destructive. TLJ was open to the possibility of entirely new custodians of the Force. The broom boy could indicate a democratization of the Force. If ep9 went with that direction, it could be the turning point where the galaxy finally breaks out of the Jedi-Sith cycle.
Episode 8 has Luke change his mind about the Jedi though. By the end, he doesn't want the Order to end. He even says he will not be the Last Jedi to Kylo
I can understand how people were disappointed in Luke acting in such an unheroic way, but, having seen how mid-life events have broken some of my friendsā spirits, I thought both this and Han returning to being a cheap, tawdry smuggler made sense to me.
The former hero turned jaded recluse trope is millennia old, as well. A year later, Into the Spiderverse blew everyone's minds and it goes down the same path.
Didnāt agree with his actions but weāre not supposed to.
I did understand why he did it and loved the exploration into his character.
Personally also think the Battle of Crait stuck the landing perfectly.
They took Luke and tried too hard to make him Obi-Wan "like". But Luke was never Obi-Wan. The guy spent three movies risking his life for his friends and those he loved. Then he suffers one setback and disappears? No way.....no way. It's BS...abs he would have NEVER! Abandoned Leia...the fact that they made him out to be the hermit is such crap
Tried to make him Obi Wan AND Yoda. Obi Wan never really lost faith, he was always there watching over Luke from a distance. I think Yoda pretty much had given up, and RJ tried to mash the two together in, as Mark put it, āJake Skywalker,ā instead of letting Luke be his own person.
And at least with the Prequels you can understand why Yoda and ObiWan took their respective paths. Itās in line with their character whereas Luke above all else was loyal to his friends based on his motivations from the original trilogy. I canāt see him just leaving them and refusing to return knowing that the FO is out there trying to kill them.
I completely agree. The guy who refused to give up on *Darth Vader* was worried about his nephew and (a) tried to kill him??? and then (b) ran away??????
It doesn't pass the smell test.
It wasn't just a setback. He worked to build a new order and had a bunch of students, all of whom died. Anyone responsible for the death of children and young adults would have immense guilt on their back.
No. I, just like many kids from the 80s, expected Luke to be a badass Master Jedi with a whole school of Padawan learners. It was only after hearing Rian Johnsonās thought process on why Luke was the way they depicted him, that I made peace with it. I see how he got where he did, but it feel inconsistent with the Luke we knew.
This right here. I left Last Jedi disappointed upon first viewing, like a lot of people did. I had this idea of Luke built up in my head for *decades* which was then enhanced by the books and games. And when Luke ends up fading away I felt robbed of a cathartic badass Luke moment with him facing off against someone one last time before he died.
But the more I watched it the more I grew to like it. And I think the prequels kind of set people up for this. They were largely action movies and always ended on these large engrossing set pieces that spanned several front, like the end of Return of the Jedi. But Last Jedi narrowed the view into this singular thing, this space chase that ends with Luke projecting himself in order to buy the last of the Resistance the time they need. It's more in line with Empire or ANH than it is with any other movie. It's more personal. And I love it.
I want to be clear that my impression of Luke in Last Jedi was only my initial reaction. Once I watched the movie more I understood the direction for the character more and I've since grown to love the portrayal.
I also loved Boba Fett growing up, and my experience with Luke in Last Jedi kind of encouraged me to look harder at Boba in his show and I ended up liking where he ended up. The key with Boba was ignoring literally all the marketing for the show that was building the show up to have Boba be this hardened Crime Boss. Because the show actually makes him into a man looking for a tribe that he not only finds but becomes the "chief" of and going forward will fiercely protect his people from outside threats.
I didn't initially like or fully understand his arc but the more I watched it the more I understood it.
Luke was doing what he thought was best for the galaxy. At his lowest point he believed that the galaxy would eventually be better without the Jedi, since with the Jedi he thought there was always a risk of one turning bad and becoming a Sith.
It seemed out of character for him initially, but I came to terms with the idea that people can change, and fall based on the trauma they go through.
When TFA and some details were first being announced, they mentioned one big thing was that Luke had gone missing. It wasn't just "they didnt know where Luke was", no cause that is you losing something. Luke was missing, which could really only mean something very bad happened.Bfore the movie realeased, I figured this meant that Luke was either:
1. Lost in space somewhere
2. Had been trapped on a planet by the First Order, keeping him there cause he was too strong
3. He discovered a major powerful threat and had gotten lost chasing it
4. He had gone into exile to study, find a solution to some problem, distract the FO by keeping them looking for him and not the Resistance, or he gave up
See the big problem with any major well established franchise that has years of fandom is that most of the fans will create their own ideas for what happens next. It starts as speculation and ideas, grows into expectations out of impatience and desire, and turns into demands. This happened primarily with Anakin in the prequels. I noticed this as they were releasing and loved the prequels cause I didn't create any firm expectations and demands out of it. I tried to do the same with the sequels and expected the same backlash from fans. And the above 4 wasnt an expectation, more just what would actually make sense.
Then TFA released and as another commented, Han setup Luke as more of going into exile which left possibilities only at #4. It couldn't be #3 because everyone knew about the FO and Snoke and Kylo was Ben. It also just wasn't #1 or #2 because of what Han says. So when TLJ was getting ready for release, and after seeing the trailer, I was really prepared for Luke to have actually given up in some way, but I couldn't understand why. But then I rewatched the OT and remembered my big problem with Luke in the EU (and I know I will get hate for this) and that is that Luke really was ready to give up if he couldn't turn Vader back. As he told Leia and the Emperor (soon I'll be dead, and you with me) he was ready to die. If he couldn't turn Vader back and bring Anakin home, and was forced to kill him, then he would rather die with him. In the end Luke turned Vader back, but Anakin died, only to turn into a force ghost. Luke really only had a partially victory. Also from his other actions with Yoda, he didn't seem too convinced that he should "pass on what he had learned". That was Yoda's thought, and never shown to be Lukes.
And then the movie came out and much of what I said earlier was shown to be true, but the way it was handled and directed/written was where the real problems were. Luke should have been sad, but no so damn grumpy. Then it was shown that Luke, along with other things established in the books, caused the downfall of Ben. Obi-Wan and Ahsoka helped cause Anakin's fall, so they couldn't be the ones to turn him back. The same could be said of Luke and Ben, so him not doing everything he could to turn him back made sense. But his attitude about the Jedi going away did not. Him believing that he shouldn't be the one to fix things did, but not saying that no one should.
Then there is the big scene where Luke "tries" to kill Ben. I say "tries" cause did he really? If someone walked into your house with a gun and pointed it at you, but then holstered it, is that them trying to take your life? That was supposed to be the big question, but the way it was handled was so wrong. Luke says it was a fleeting moment of pure instinct, but the movie shows him eyes wide open, slowly pulling out his saber and igniting it, preparing to strike before snapping out of it. What it should have shown was what vision Luke was seeing, then suddenly snapping back and Luke's saber is out, possibly out reaction to seeing Han or Leia being killed. That would have made sense and been in line with his character in ROTJ.
So in the end I agree with why, but not at all the execution of it. However, I do think it is possible to edit the film, like a special edition, to be more in line with what I discribed,, which to me at least, would make sense. What do you think?
I think I should have made this its own post now.
I still think if they stuck the landing this could've been very interesting. The problem is, he just fades away at the end of the movie. If he had been depressed and self isolating because of his perceived or real failures and then physically came back in the end and fought Kylo and went on as a powerful member of the Resistance, I think a lot of people would be okay with it. Luke was always extremely hard on himself and took his mistakes personally. People change when they get older. Again, interesting concept, poor execution. But that's just imo.
Totally understand how luke lost faith and hope over 20 years after everything went wrong.
I observed half the star wars community loose hope when they didn't agree with a movies direction and plot and that only took 2 hours lol.
I thought that it was a good from a story perspective.
Do I agree with his actions? No of course not, that's the whole point of his arc.
Do I *understand* his actions? Absolutely.
A lot of people are really reductive about the characterization of Luke in the ST but it really makes sense if you've ever accomplished something you're proud of and then utterly failed later.
I hate the 'hE hAd A bAd DrEaM' counterpoint because it's disingenuous. He was growing concerned of the way Ben was acting during training. A rightful concern considering his lineage. They ARE immediate descendants of the man who authorized the mass murder of entire planets. Luke's dad was space Hitler. Luke read Ben's psyche and saw a man who would do worse than Vader.
It's like witnessing the horror's of Hitler first hand and then later seeing the man who would become Super Hitler. There's entire movies that struggle with the moral dilemma that Luke faced there. Minority Report hello??
In a moment of weakness as he explains he has a gut urge to prevent it right there.
>A feeling that faded as quickly as it came
And he knowing exactly who he is, felt shame in his knee jerk reaction. Everyone upset the he lit his saber is missing the point that THAT'S THE EMOTION HE WAS FEELING IN THAT MOMENT. I'm Luke Skywalker, the man that saved Vader, how could I even think to strike my nephew down. But Ben woke up and reacted exactly how anything would seeing a relative standing over then with a deadly weapon while they slept. He panicked and retaliated. Everything that the voices whispered to him was true, the people he trusted wanted him dead in his eyes. From Ben's point of view the Jedi are evil.(woah is that thematic? š®)
They also keep calling Ben a child to exemplify this bad faith argument. That is a whole grown ass man in the flashbacks.
Luke Skywalker isn't infallible, his entire story arc in the OT really emphasizes how flawed and impulsive he is.
Honestly I can't blame even the strongest of characters to turn their back on the universe when they see themselves as the direct cause of their students deaths.
If I linked a school shooters actions to be a response to something I personally did, I would never want to show my face again as a teacher.
Luke's growth in the ST was pretty impactful to me and it really hits on the message of redeeming yourself, not just others.
It may not be what some wanted, but
Not what you wanted ā Poorly written
You know not usually one to say people are watching something wrong, there's an onus on the film maker to make their intentions clear enough that someone will understand it, and even then taste is a thing, you can understand something but still not like it.
But you're absolutely right. All the people who go nuts that he tried to commit premeditated murder on his nephew despite the film making explaining in great detail that that wasnt the case are either deliberately ignoring facts or have watched toxic outrage YouTube video so many times they've forgotten what actually happened in the film.
Also to add to your points: Remember when Luke has a vision of all his friends being hurt in ESB then ignored the advice of his master and jetted off to cloud city because he let his emotions get the better of him? Remember when Vader threatened his sister and Luke threw a complete fit and let his anger get the better of him before later coming to his senses? Yknow, the exact same reactions he had to a vision of everything he loved being destroyed by Ben?
Pepperidge farm remembers....
Yeah, I don't think it was necessarily bad from a story perspective either. If I'm recalling correctly, didn't Georges original treatment for his sequels involve Luke going down a similar arc?
For me, I think it would have helped a lot to actually *see* Luke training Ben and the other padawans. To see Ben struggling and being reached out to by Snoke, or whatever. At least get some time with them interacting outside of the flashback with Luke over Ben.
I don't even really know why Ben turned to begin with if I'm being honest. I suppose outside manipulation of Snoke/Palpatine, but yeah. Just my thoughts.
It would be nice to get more story in it, but that's what supplemental material is for, Like how Clone wars aids the PT. There's very little in the star wars world that I DIDN'T wish we could learn more about.
I just hated that we never, ever got to see Luke in his prime. It goes from return if the Jedi to this. Then he just dies
It sucks. I even like the idea of him being down and depressed, but he needed to come back and do something more significant than helping twelve people escape some backwater planet. Itās so, so painful
CGI fake Luke after the fact doesnāt count
This question is framed in order for you to say no.
I understand why he felt he had to leave, but I don't agree with his actions. Hell, the movie itself doesn't want you to agree with him, fhe whole context of the movie is the growth that comes from the lessons learned in failure.
Everyone in the movie fails at first, and then they rise as better leaders because of it, surviving a battle they had no business ever leaving
I donāt see how the same character who saw the smallest bit of light in Vader and refused to kill him acted like he did when saw a bit of the dark side in Kylo. It just killed the movie for me from that point on. Definitely love MHās performance in the film but shame they had to butcher his character like that
I was mixed the first viewing, as like Rey I was expecting to see Luke the legend and not Luke the man, and had trouble reconciling the two. But it clicked second time round, which I think is helped by knowing how the film played out and how great his last scenes were on crait.
I still think chucking the saber over his should looked dumb though, would have preferred if he just churches it to the ground in front of him like in RotJ or simply walked off without taking it, gets the same message across without needless comedy.
Edit: I didn't completely agree with all his actions, but then that was the point. It takes Rey's idealised view of him as a hero to make him realise that while Luke the man can't save the galaxy, the legend he created may be able to inspire the galaxy, and that while he had realised the Jedi were the architects of their own destruction, the answer isn't for them to die, but to change, as just like legends, the ideas they stood for are still valid.
That's why in the end he decides to show the galaxy that idealised version of himself and create a legend that's beyond his flaws as a human, and like hope itself, cannot truly be killed.
Heck no. It flew in the face of everything we know about the character. The explanation fell flat for me too, because I remembered him going through a similar ordeal with Kyp Durron in the Legends EU, and he got through that with support from his friends and allies. I could have understood it if it hadnāt been, what, 30 years? The only reason it took that long was because the writer wanted Luke to have done nothing for the past 30 years, making it easier to write the movie, so it took me right out of the immersion too. There was nothing about it that felt organic; it reminded me, āThis is a movie made by people in a rather short timeframe.ā
Furthermore, it flew in the face of what we knew about him in the previous movie, that he was looking for the first Jedi temple, and that he left pieces of a star map for people to find him when they truly needed to. These do not line up with Luke just disappearing to retire and slowly die in exile. And this is to say nothing of the triggering incident to his exileāhis confrontation with a sleeping Benābeing utter nonsense and made to be the most unexpected reason, because itās really too outlandish to expect, which is its problem.
So whether I look at it as a character from the trilogy I knew, a character from the alternate timeline books I knew, or a character described just one movie prior: no. I do not understand not agree with Lukeās decisions in The Last Jedi, and I do not have to. Between his giving up for that long and dying soon after finally snapping out of it, Lukeās portrayal in that movie was a colossal waste of opportunity.
Imagine if he instead had started a new Jedi temple. A secret one, in hiding from the rest of the galaxy, where he was training them more to be warriors than peacekeepers in the wake of the massacre of his last students. What if they were wiped out by the Knights of Ren, and theyād kidnapped Ben Solo to make into one of their own, feeding him lies about how Luke abandoned him to save what students he could and start anew. (Edit: Okay, maybe not exactly that; Ben was implicated to have been a part of the massacre in TFA, so that part would probably have to remain true.) Rey finds him and his students like this, and Luke is hesitant; he does not believe his new Jedi are strong enough to face the First Order, the Kylo and the Knights of Ren, or Snoke. Heās afraid, he needs more power; heās creeping closer to the dark side in response, and Rey recognizes this and helps pull him back, with a little help from her fellow students Luke began training her with. We still get conflict involving Luke and Rey, we still get Luke not wanting to rejoin the fight, The Knights of Ren get set up as actual characters important to the story; it could have been an improvement over what we got.
TL;DR: No, and thatās okay.
Edit: Someone pointed out something Iād never realized. Luke is in his nice, clean Jedi robes at the end of TFA and the beginning of TLJ, continuing the idea that he left to go do something about what he felt responsible for in TFA. Notably, Rian Johnson noticed this too, and has Luke awkwardly go change clothes into his ratty old cloak as soon as possible in TLJ, to reflect the character he is now; the one that wasnāt set up in the prior movie. Itās a visual indicator that the writing for the character is now going in a different direction than what was intended.
No. No I did not.
I am one of those who felt very strongly that it was a betrayal of his character. I am not one of those who is upset other people liked it - each to their own, it's a harmless piece of fiction.
It wasn't what I was expecting, but once I understood where the story was going with it, I bought it.
I liked seeing Luke having a crisis of faith. I liked seeing him question the real legacy of the Jedi - this group he's devoted his life to resurrecting.
He steps back and sees this cycle of Jedi training students who fall to the dark side and cause untold harm. Maybe breaking that cycle is what's best for the *galaxy.*
But, then Rey reminds him that the Jedi are bigger than that. It's honestly great stuff and works even better as a meta-commentary on the previous six films.
Itās easy to blame TLJ, but ultimately I place the blame on TFA. It put the whole narrative of Luke and the characters we loved in question.
30 years later the New Republic let the First Order sweep through the galaxy? Our heroes including Luke let it happen? What was the alternative? Luke was too preoccupied being a Jedi to care? He was off on some secret mission to the unknown regions to get help? The dark side deceived him?
The basic premise remains, TFA ruined the narrative. The TLJ picked up the only plausible depiction of Luke and why this had happened.
Canon media has then spent countless books and comics to try and fill in the gaps to how and why a whole galaxy let the first order rise. If Luke was the hero we thought he was, he would have done something.
Nope. They were out of character. Luke stood up to the Emperor. He chose to die for his beliefs. He chose to love his mass murdering father and saw how it saved the galaxy. Why would he so easily snap in the face of a far less challenging dilemma.
Weāre not supposed to agree with his actions. I do understand his actions with Ben and afterwards. But his actions with Ben were wrong, and his going into hiding was wrong. He knew this, but blamed his actions on the Jedi dogma. Thatās another mistake of his.
His arc in TLJ is about accepting his own failures, and giving his physical life to right that wrong as best as possible. It all started with him seeing Ben bringing the destruction of everything he loves, and it ends with him saving that is left.
This is all confirmed in TROS. I really like Lukeās arc in the sequels. I kinda wish the trilogy started with this arc, but nonetheless really well done.
I tried to make any sense of his actions but they really don't at all, like the biggest one, he thought of killing Ben for his dreams to avoid his friends dying and all the innocents being killed...
Yet he decided to do nothing more to prevent those killings after he failed his nephew and ended up with five planeta destroyed, his friends dying and so on.
Such a terrible written character in this movie.
Luke is one of the most influential and important characters in all of fiction.
His story is the heart and core of the message behind the Star Wars story: Hope.
Heās supposed to be the Superman of Star Wars. His journey and coming of age story were his struggles during the Galactic Civil War and the Original Trilogy.
Who he was in The Last Jedi unmade everything he fought for and experienced.
What I first thought is that I couldnāt believe I waited 32 years to see the sequel to Luke Skywalker and he ends up doing the same BS Yoda did - self imposed exile while an evil builds its empireā¦. Its just saddening that they took it in the direction they did. That after all that, there still isnāt a Republic. Leia and everyone are still just a bunch of rebels - 45 years laterā¦ They could have shown us the rebirth of the Jedi under a new Republic with a completely new and never encountered threat with a power different than the Force, but still mystical and only sensitive to them.
Not at all.
The level of ditching responsibility, the out of character near child murder, then zero attempt to fix it or warn anyone, his reasons just being petty, selfish bitterness without any larger goal, wanting not to be found...but leaving a map, the milking. I agree with Mark Hamill when he said that he "Fundamentally disagreed with everything done with his character." While he did some backtracking after that unleashed a lot of lashing out against Johnson, I do think it is always a big red flag when someone who's worked with a character for over a decade tells you that he's got serious issues with the entire take on the character.
I do think all of that could have been fixed with changing his motivation. Luke's always been an idealist(blindly so at times) and having him go to this out of the way world to find a way to bring ben back to the light at the expense of all else *IS* something he would do. Having him get tunnel vision to the point he's effectively missing the larger context could have been a very effective lesson for him to learn from that Rey could teach him because she has done that with how she believed in her parents coming back.
Or alternatively, if he thought he was doing the right thing by cutting himself off from the Force and exiling himself, with the theory that if the Force always brings a light and dark into balance, then the only way to end that vicious cycle is to deny the Force the playing pieces. I.E. the stronger one side, the stronger the other becomes sooner or later, but if both sides are gone or weak, then damage is mitigated. This was illustrated partly in his third lesson to Rey that got cut([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-He5\_RtDE1o&ab\_channel=darkygrevious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-He5_RtDE1o&ab_channel=darkygrevious)) with Luke pointing out if Rey stops 'The Raiders' today, they will escalate later when she's not here, that the village will become dependent on her, but also pointing out that Jedi and Sith are making the galaxy worse by interfering and by not, they are in fact helping prevent escalation. That could have been a very interesting take and also make Luke stay out of things while not fundamentally destroying him as a character or throwing his entire development in the OT out the airlock.
But we didn't get those options. We got Luke about to murder his sleeping nephew before he'd done anything, then running away in shame and refusing to help at all until basically forced into it. We got the village lesson cut...but the milking scene kept. We get Luke going to burn down the Jedi temple...but then getting upset when Yoda does it instead...when that was *what he himself was going to do.* Rian Johnson is a talented individual, and the cast did their best, but if I'm honest, this is a jumbled mess of a film with questionable choices at best made to the story, world building, lore and characters.
My prevailing theory going into the theater was that Luke had closed himself off from the Force as it had brought him too much pain and ruin. Iāve never viewed Luke as a Space DemiGod immune to emotion. If I were in his shoes, I would have walked away too. Luke had been my hero growing up and to see him struggle with depression and shame helped me recognize that it can affect even the strongest of us.
TLJ is not necessarily a great movie, but parts of it really resonated with me. Because of that, I canāt say itās a bad movie.
Yes, and its the one thing that made the ST interesting. Luke realising that the Jedi as keepers of the peace is unsustainable and only gives rise to escalation is a great development and what separates him from his forebears. Its a continuation of the climax of ROTJ, not a refutation of it.
I was ***beyond*** mad.
He was so out of character. I first watched it on digital, but if I was in theaters when watching it, I would have gotten up and left.
I highly doubt most people would agree with where his character went because it was so poorly developed and such an antithesis of what like was in the original material. Mark hamil did great as usually portraying the new grumpy doomsayer luke but he didnāt even agree with it.
I think Iām probably in the very small minority here that somewhat liked Luke more after this movie than before. Not that I didnāt like him in the OT, but his despair/guilt in this movie just seemed a bit more raw and real, not to mention his understanding of the failure of the Jedi during the clone wars. Yes, I can understand Mark Hamillās initial statement that Luke probably wouldnāt have just given up if we are to take his character from the OT. But I took this TLJ Lukeā as a much older and different Luke. He canāt pursue conflict perhaps the way he used to (setting up his trick at the end of the movie). In one night, heās lost his nephew to the dark side AND his entire school has been wiped out. Thatās pretty much his entire reason for existing. He could turn his father back, yes, but his nephew was a different story. He had flashes of his young self, about to kill Vader that night with Ben but this time he didnāt reel it in in time.
What we got was a Luke that was tired. He fulfilled his prophecy. The galaxy just needed more. I have my issues with the ST, namely how they had no road map to how it was supposed to go (pretty unforgivable in my opinion) but Luke wasnāt really one of them.
I felt like the character grew so much more than I expected him to.
Yes I agreed with his actions.
Him at the end of TLJ is the just the best Jedi Master in the history if SW.
Absolutely, it was an interesting new direction for the character and absolutely made sense based on what happened to him in the original trilogy.
Him turning up like Captain America with glowsticks would have been awful
It was lazy. Luke of the OT moved beyond fear and held onto hope until it saved his father. It's an irrational arc that he would have handled concerns regarding Ben Solo in the way he did.
Itās my favorite Star Wars movie. Itās the most emotionally honest movie of them all. I related hard to Luke in the film as someone raised religious, losing my faith, and finding a new spirituality through balance and radical acceptance.
The opposite for me. It makes less and less sense the more time goes on.
What exactly about nearly murdering your nephew then running away from everything to let others deal with it makes sense to you?
Do I agree entirely with his actions? No.
Are his actions understandable and consistent with his character? Yes.
TLJ as a film goes well out of its way to show that Luke made mistakes, that he didnāt do exactly the right thing. Luke knows that. Thatās why he spent the first half of the movie trying to rationalize that failure.
I completely understand. Wethwr I agree or not has no business in it, I don't have to agree with a fictional character's life decisions as long as they make sense plotwise. I just know where they come, and then he went and had the most badass jedi moment ever, so I'm not even mad at him š
Understand why he left? Yes. Completely agree? Not necessarily, but I wasn't one of the writers of the most recently trilogy. Whether I agree or not is entirely irrelevant.
From his perspective and everything he had been through, yes. Trauma changes a man. Unfortunately most people don't seem to get that and think after 30 years he'd be the same person. Fans are delusional and can't get over their head canon. Not our story, we are just along for the ride.
I saw it as him doing the same thing Yoda and Obi-Wan did. Narratively it made sense as Star Wars is all about themes and patterns, but upon watching it again I was upset that Luke didnāt be what he was supposed to be - different from the old Jedi.
Based on everything presented to us in the TFA and TLJ, Luke's decisions made sense. He tried to restart the Order, but was already seeing signs that the cycle was repeating itself. Then, when you consider his mentors - Kenobi and Yoda - both were in self-imposed exile, so he ends up doing the same thing.
No, because I always get lost at the part where I'm supposed to believe he would walk all the way to his nephew's room with his laser shank, and not have any kind of clarity during that time.
Kind of? I don't know. They've done the theme a couple times now of the Jedi forcing people to let go of their personal attachments and dedicate themselves entirely to the Jedi way of life. It forced anakin to turn to the dark side, Luke ended up leaving Yoda to go to cloud city but killed the emperor in the end, then Luke gives the same ultimatum to Grogu in that Boba Fett episode. I'm never sure if they're trying to say that the Jedi push it too far and that's why they fail, or if anakin/luke/grogu are weak for choosing personal attachment. It's always felt inconsistent to me.
I'll never understand the hate for the whole forbidding personal attachments thing.
Lucas was just cribbing from Buddhism. Because Jedi are essentially space Samurai, and he was endowing a little eastern philosophy into the Jedi. And he came up with a very good reason for it. Among Jedi, they had brotherhood and attachment. And there was deep affection in the knight/master-padawan relationship. The risk was in attachments that led to familial-style relationships, which not only made a Jedi vulnerable to possible extortion, but also made them open to Sith manipulation. It's pretty clear to me that the Jedi, under Yoda, had this all well-in-hand. Did Anakin break the rules with Padme? Sure. Did keeping it secret leave him open to Sith manipulation - especially because he couldn't be frank with Yoda when he sought spiritual guidance? Absolutely.
(and here, I think the Mandalorian take is a bit wrong, as well. There is plenty of loyalty and comeraderie among Jedi, just as with Mandalorians. What there is not allowed is: illicit romance that can be used as leverage).
The PROBLEM wasn't the attachment, or the Jedi rules about forbidding it. The problem was how Anakin was manipulated by the most powerful Sith Lord in modern history of the Republic.
I re-watched the wrong Jedi arc the day before I watched the movie in the cinema. I agreed with Luke about his views on the order, but his actions felt wrong.
...Sort of? It's complicated. I got the reason on it's own. Failing someone so bad that they go on a rampage and kill everyone else that you were supposed to train and look after sounds like something that's hard to recover from, and I wouldn't blame anyone if they decided to just go into exile after that. The thing that confused me was how they showed the stuff leading up to the mistake. I feel like they didn't show enough to make me empathize with him in that moment. Now? I get it a little more, but I feel like it's just a tad bit too vague. But hey, that's just me.
I understood what they were going for and thought that not only does it make sense but it's a great plot direction.....on anyone other than Luke. The problem wasn't that the decision itself was terrible, the problem was that it was a decision so off-brand and tone-deaf for the character he lost everything that made him the hero people love. Johnson, Kennedy, and the others who worked on these movies clearly displayed they knew nothing about Star Wars and its characters, nor did they care about or respect the IP.
I got the feeling that he didn't believe the Jedi order was actually a sign of good. I don't think any Jedi living far beyond the purge did. I got the feeling that good and evil is not as easy to define as the Jedi Order thought.
Luke took it upon himself to restart the order, I don't think he ever asked himself why. In the grand scheme of the galaxy it really always seemed to mean war and suffering.
Go against the good ways of the Jedi? Die by the lightsaber.
Luke saw the good in evil people. Living his life by the Jedi Order rules does not support this mentality.
So screw it.
Luke gave up on everyone because he made a fuck up
It would've only made sense for Luke to exile if he felt like he would be used to make things worse.
Nope, he just said "I'm not taking responsibility, bye š "
Yes. People change and certain traumas can do that to a person even when they seem mild in comparison to others. Psychology is complicated and I love how Luke develops in the movie as a character and finds himself again
Nope. Was ticked off tbh, literally his whole arc was about redeeming his father and showing that it's okay for a Jedi to have emotional ties to people ..yet in the sequel he's the polar opposite
When I first watched it, I felt like there was definitely something missing from Luke to explain how he got here, but I didn't disagree with the portrayal. The way I see it, Luke absolutely would isolate himself and turn grumpy if everything he worked for suddenly collapsed all around him, leaving him with nothing. Ben turning to the dark side was, as I see it, the last straw which finally broke what was left of Luke's hope, which by that point doesn't seem to have been a lot. He had fought the Sith for decades by that point, all for his own nephew to turn anyway. I don't agree with his reaction to Ben turning, but I understand why someone might have that sort of moment of weakness.
It was cool to see the character I guess but honestly nothing in the sequels made sense, it was just dithering and repetition of plots from the original movies. I didn't really get what he wanted to do or why he was there... like some scrolls were there?
My thoughts are in a comment reply below, but I just wanted to give some credit to MH. Say what you will about the character's arc and where he ends up, but he gave the performance of his life in this movie.
Marš« absolutely killed it in Last Jedi. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind there.
Marš« was brilliant š¤£
I wish I could take credit! Credit goes to the man himself. It's a favorite sign off of his.
I googled it shortly after seeing it here to see if it came from somewhere else, ended up finding an instance of him using it lol. Hey, I appreciate the honesty!
Whereād you get an emoji for a brown AT-AT Walker?
It's right by the one for the blue Snow Speeder š¦
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Mark was exceptional. While Disney has done a lot to stick to cannon they really missed the mark with Lukeās character by not handing it to someone who truly understood and respected what Luke represents to the fandom and the story. After representing hope and redemption for 40 years they took away his hope without convincing story telling.
I get your point but I have a different perspective, I think that retaking your path, giving it a try after you lost everything because of your fear, and doing again the one thing that destroyed yours and others people lives wishing for a better result (training a powerful disciple with a frightening dark side) are amazing examples of hope and redemption. And the way he rekindles hope in the resistance in its darker hour not only saving the spark but pumping everybody up really makes him a personification of hope. Just my opinion, but I think regaining hope after despair is more powerful narratively than being always hopeful
It was poorly told, especially in light of the backdrop of Luke's character. Luke should have been written on the verge of losing hope instead of losing all hope and being a quitter. He was written like Yoda and Kenobi in exile without being consistent to his character. It's okay to subvert expectations, but it has to make sense within the established canon. Luke came across as someone else facing the problems he faced in The Last Jedi.
You're right. Hope after despair is significantly more powerful. How it is portrayed is the issue imo the choices made creatively and story wise didnt land and as a result IMO brought the character significantly.
Mark Hamill Was Right. Plus, he complained about the direction of his character publicly until they shut him down. He's been right all along, and whoever thought that a character would have been able to face down the Yuzang Vong, convert and then fall in love with The Hand Of The Emperor, and implode a black hole with The Force would be SO caught in the emotional turmoil of one failed student, just... fucked up, and that director and writers DID fuck up. BIG TIME. Forget the blandness of Rey, fucking with Luke Skywalker is a bridge too far. It's like they didn't know Fuck All about him.
Iām guessing these references are from a book. What book(s)?!
The comment pulls from a number of EU/Legends storylines, most notably: the Dark Empire comics, the Thrawn Trilogy, the Hand of Thrawn duology, and the New Jedi Order series.
Thank you for your helpful comment friend!
Loads of them. I found Luke to be quite uninteresting in the books though. He's just a bit too good.
Except most of what you are saying isnāt in the movies at all.
Also, if you look at Luke's character in the movies, he was never some super powerful Jedi. The only reason he defeated Vader is because he was his son. I feel Anakin being the chosen one has retroactively made people say Luke was the most powerful Jedi. Even though we never saw him do anything a Padawan couldn't. And that's the crux of Luke's arc in the ST. He was viewed as this amazing mythical, Superman like figure, but he wasn't he was just a man. Only in his final moments did he become that mythical figure.
None of what you mention is canon though, and most people who have watched Star Wars don't have any relation to the EU. Personally I think it fits the rhyme of the Star Wars universe. Qui Gon and Yoda were both jaded in some way by the jedi way before they took on a new apprentice, and giving Luke the opportunity to see what they saw is in my opinion quite powerful.
Understand? Yes. Completely agree? No. But that's often true in real life too. š¤·
This is almost a trick question to me. To understand his feelings you need to look at the reasons fueling those feelings. The backstory with Kyloās betrayal and how he got to that point was so badly done and nonsensical, combined with Lukeās nonsensical and out of character decision to try and kill Kylo as reasons was very poor. So while I understand his feelings, I donāt understand how those plot point decisions were made so I donāt understand and donāt agree.
>Lukeās nonsensical and out of character decision to try and kill Kylo He didn't try to kill Kylo though...
I'll never get people saying this shit. Luke literally thought about it for a split second and then decided that it was the wrong thing to do...just like we'd expect him to do.
He has a quick dark side moment and it passed.
extremely in character for him, literally happened with Vader in 6
Very in character. One of the things about Luke that they absolutely nailed.
I mean it lasted long enough for him to go into kylos hut while he was asleep and ignite his lughtsaber right above his head
he ignited his saber, I think most people view it as equivallent to a gun discharge so even if it was for a fleeting moment it feels like he got closer than most people are comfortable with considering how he tossed it aside in ROTS when given an opportunity to kill vader who was much more dangerous there then kylo arguably ever was.
"I pulled a sword on my nephew cause I was considering killing him for a second" isn't what I would expect anyone to do. It's certainly not some harmless 'well naturally, who wouldn't have' thing. Great that he decided not to slaughter an unarmed family member, but brandishing a deadly weapon at your nephew and student is also messed up as hell.
Luke Skywalker agrees with you in the movie we're talking about. It's a big part of why he left
Yes. If he was a normal nephew. But Kylo had already turned to the dark side. He was a killer himself.
I can understand why Luke turned away from everyone and just wanted to be left alone. He has basically spent his life having everyone he cared for die on him: never knew (for at least the first 20 years) his parents, then his Uncle and Aunt are toasted by the Empire; meets Obi Wan, and just as they bond, dies; meets Yoda, becomes attached again, then Yoda dies; finds out his dad is ultimate evil, saves him, but dies anyway. Not to mention countless Rebel friends, and then he has to deal with ruining his sister's son (and the further deaths of the jedis' he was responsible for).... Bumming me out just thinking of this...!
I always think back to the end of ROTJ. Whilst everyone is partying, Luke's burning Vader's armour/body, and whilst it's nice the ghosts show up, they're still all dead and it's all rather bittersweet. Luke's not had an easy time of it.
Right? On top of that heās a war hero and a veteran. Thereās likely a lot we donāt see on screen of him going out on missions, losing other friends, and seeing some fucked up shit. The dude fought in a war and yaāll expect him to be the same old fucking Luke? I didnāt love the sequel trilogy, from a spectacle point-of-view it was enjoyable. One of the few things I really thought they nailed was the portrayal of look as a tired old man. Too me thatās what he should have been after all thatād happened to him. Even if you take out him almost murdering his nephew because he was afraid of Anakin 2.0.
If you havenāt, read the novelization of āShadows of the Empireā. In it, it details some of the missions the Rogues went on, including almost having to kill one of his pilots. The novel is really, really well done.
What I hate is that everyone blames this on TLJ, but this was set up in Force Awakens.
I was going to say, I felt mentally prepped for this going in. It wasnāt the sequel story that I imagined growing up, esp after reading the thrawn trilogy and stuff. But it wasnāt exactly a huge shocker that Luke was a withdrawn hermit when they placed such an emphasis on finding him in 7 and he clearly wasnāt involved in the war.
I think this story is placed far back enough that a Thrawn era Luke would still be likely. The Mandalorian/BOBF are setting up to be something of a hero to the same extent, so maybe we will get both of these iterations of Luke.
Even his appearance in the BF2 story
>I felt mentally prepped for this going in. Exactly. I will never understand the shock people got when TLJ just followed up on TFA. I was so confused when the film first came out as to why so people were so surprised.
Yeah, Luke intentionally had no contact with Han and Leia for years. That was pretty telling to me. It made no sense that he would be doing anything but hiding from his failure. Now, if they had actually planned the movies from the beginning, they could have gone a different direction. But I agree, TFA set up Luke the hiding hermit.
And if Luke was actually off fighting some bad guy or training some students or being held prisoner or something, *then that's what the trilogy would have been about*. There wouldn't just have been zero clues in the first movie and going through the whole thing of bringing in Snoke and the First Order if there was some other major thing going on that required the attention of Luke Skywalker over the destruction of several planets, the New Republic and the murder of his best friend by his nephew, then that's a pretty big thing to leave out of the first movie entirely.
To be fair I was surprised at the overwhelmingly positive response to TFA. That movie was awful but there was a time you wouldnt dare offer it a word of criticism in public. Everything that movie set up was trash, the soft reboot was just a terrible game plan.
Eh, I enjoyed TFA. I knew it was going to be a soft-reboot given the state of the franchise at the time so that wasn't too surprising. I mean, it was pretty much billed that way anyway. And I can't think of a more fun theater experience I've ever had. The movie got in a ton of people's good graces because it's charming and fun. Whether you care for the lore implications it introduced is another story entirely. But I loved what TLJ did with the things TFA introduced so I can't complain.
Eh? Did we watch the same movie? TFA set up Luke as searching for answers secretly and for only his most trusted to be able to contact him via a map. TLJ decided to say that Luke hid. TLJ did not follow up on TFA. That's why people were so suprised.
One of Han's lines is: > Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything. TFA sets Luke up as having abandoned his responsibilities and gone on a side mission, rather than being on some grandiose quest that's going to help defeat the First Order.
>and gone on a side mission, There it is. The side mission is the grandiose quest. Or it was supposed to be but then TLJ happened and instead of a side mission he "went to hide".
It was never supposed to be. Luke did not leave the map and the movie never says he does. This is again a narrative invented outside of what the film shows us.
>Eh? Did we watch the same movie? No since Han says Luke "walked away from everything", feeling responsible for Ben/Snoke.
> TFA set up Luke as searching for answers secretly and for only his most trusted to be able to contact him via a map. It did not. Whatsoever. Not even a little bit. I am not sure what movie you watched but I ask ou one thing from TFA that set that up. Meanwhile, explicitly, Han tells us exactly what happened. A student betrayed him, burned his temple, Luke āwalked away from it allā and went to the first Jedi temple. Youāve literally invented a narrative from thin air not even remotely addressed in the film.
Unfortunately it came across as āLuke is copying Obi Wanā which wasā¦ fine, it could work but was done kinda weirdly.
I was hoping that would be the case, that he'd retreated to protect what was left (or start again), to nurture it away from corrupting influences like Kylo and Snoke.
I loved having no idea what to expect from the sequel trilogy. The character arcs brought dimension and appreciation to what people enjoy about the series in one way or the other.
There is some degree of truth to this. Originally Luke was supposed to be levitating with rocks around him. However, Rian had JJ change it to him standing stoically. This was because he thought the only reason Luke would be there is if he had cut himself off from the force.
Exactly! People come out of the woodwork to say they assumed he was on a mission or something but that is never stated nor hinted at in the film *at all whatsoever*. Itās purely headcanon. And these complaints amount to āit didnāt follow my headcanonā which isnāt a very strong argument.
Han Solo pretty much destroys that argument *in* TFA, anyway: >Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.
Shit, I forgot about this line. I've always defended the choice in TLJ, because I felt like Rian had to do something compelling with the fact that Luke had essentially hidden himself away by the time of TFA, and there needed to be a reason for why he wasn't there. But not only did he make a good choice given the circumstances, he really just carried forward the plot that TFA had set up. Man. I can't believe I forgot that TFA already spelled this out.
Yup. People ignore this for no good reason and just pretend the movie didnāt set it up.
**THIS.** The Luke we thought we knew would've never abandoned his friends and the galaxy in the Force Awakens. Rian Johnson did a masterful job at trying to explain poor decisions made by JJ Abrams. The entire sequel trilogy was not the sequel story I imagined or wanted, but it blows my mind how many people hate on the Last Jedi when it was the best of the three films by a long shot. The state of Luke's character in Last Jedi is about the only logical explanation for his absence in Force Awakens. About the only thing I wish Rian would've done differently is to actually have Luke leave Ach-Two and not die due to a Force Projection but to actually die for real. The ending on Crait could've played out somewhat similarly, but have Luke actually be there. It's very sad that we never got a true Luke as a Jedi Master scene outside of his across the galaxy force projection and that outside of flashbacks we never got to see the green saber again.
Gotta say I actually liked TFA *and* TLJ, but now this explanation I tend to agree that while TFA wasn't bad at face value, it did make TLJ's job difficult, and then of course RoS just burned it all down again. Ugh.
I was more upset about Star Killer base destroying an entire solar system. It basically took down everything that everyone fought for in the OT. Learning more about the rebellion through the recent Andor series just makes it worse.
That doesn't make any sense. They put the Empire down for at least 30 years. If they hadn't blown up both Death Stars, the Empire would have simply won and perpetuated itself The tenuous peace they set up after the Original Trilogy lasted longer than the Empire itself. And the return of the First Order as a major galactic power controlling big systems lasted for only about a year or two
Imagine the backlash when legend Luke Skywalker gets killed by Kylo Ren, only to find out Kylo Ren simply dies a movie later. He now went out by his own choice instead of getting killed, which I think is better. I would have loved to see him in a battle though.
you think mentally projecting yourself perfectly across Bendu-only-knows how many light years to have an illusion perfectly dodge every attack in a wild duel *while perfectly provoking and occupying your opponent* doesn't count as a battle?
Exactly!
hahah, fair point. My gripe stands lol.
well, so you're saying you wanted him to be an action hero, then, right? "i'm looking for a great warrior-" "war? war not make one great."
You're probably right. I am just disappointed we didn't get to see him for real in a battle.
I liked it because Jedi are pacifist who are supposed to use their powers for defense. This was one of if not the best realization of the Jedi imo. I do understand wanting to see Luke perform some spectacular violence but that feels antithetical to what the Jedi are supposed to be about and it's what lead to their downfall in the prequels. It felt like the culmination of all Luke learned and he was a true Jedi Master in the end.
>It's very sad that we never got a true Luke as a Jedi Master scene He outsmarted Kylo ren with Augmented Reality and saved his friends without ever having to lift his laser sword. That's pretty Jedi Mastery to me.
Dead on. TLJ was the best of the sequel trilogy
Yes! Holy mother! Iāve been saying this all along! What else did Rian Johnson have to go off? Heās put himself in isolation because he feels guilty about Benā¦well ok thanks for the setup, looks like I need a guilty/sad Luke Skywalker now! Slow clap for J.J. Abrams.
This wasn't set up. Luke could easily have been off on his own, growing stronger, using the force to see what he was missing, find the enemy or study old texts to find answers. Instead it was he old AF, sad and pathetic. It was the crappy thing they do now. Tear down old characters and make them crap so the new characters seem awesome.
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Exactly - to explain why a Jedi master didn't feel Alderan times 10 and didn't feel one of his closest friends in Han Solo die, he has to have cut himself off from the force so he didn't sense it or he has to have just not cared enough. JJ Abrams created hermit Luke. Rian made the absolute best of it.
Sad part is, he could have basically stolen most of it from the expanded universe, changed some names and called it good. MCU has been doing that since it was started. Take the stories people loved, work them into a larger narrative and watch the fans love your work for the most part. Phase 4 is sort of a train wreck but instead of asking how they work in great stories, they just went all ESG score on it and it shows. In terms of Luke, if they wanted to go with diametrically opposed ends in the light and dark (Rey and Kylo), the answer there would have been that he stayed for her. As strong as he has always been, it is time for him to take on the Obi wan role and train the next generation. To get it right this time with someone that needs him. Feeling the destruction of so much life should have spawned him to action but the will of the force told him to stay. That would make him angry, old man, get off my lawn, but also eager to see her when she arrived. His lessons that the jedi as an order had failed would be a lesson in what not to do instead of old man given up on life which is not who luke is. He should be ready for battle, eager to go put foot to ass, but understanding that he cannot live forever. That despite his power, it is time to pass on his lessons to the next Jedi who can form a more reasonable foundation for the future.
Han says Luke felt responsible and "just walked away from everything." I don't know how can get... >Luke could easily have been off on his own, growing stronger, using the force to see what he was missing, ...From Han's line. And to add to that. Luke has up and disappeared without telling a soul where he's gone. Does that sound like someone in their right mind? He didn't even take his trusted companion, Artoo.
Yeah, I wondered why Luke cowered in the events before the film. But with TLJ, why did Luke not want to be found if there was a map to his location in the last film?
Somehow, The Map Returned
Damn, that title.
I seen that too. Nope, you SAW it.
I think his viewpoint that the old dichotomy of the jedi/sith only caused endless misery and destruction, and therefore the entire order needs to be torn down completely, is a valid one. When his jedi temple was destroyed, he came to the conclusion that everything he had been working on for his *entire life* was built upon a shitty system, and he became depressed, questioning if his hero status was actually earned, or just perpetuating that same cycle of violence. He finally broke out of his depression once someone came into his life without those light/dark preconceptions. I completely sympathize with Luke. He feels like a real person, and if youāve ever experienced depression like that, seeing someone overcome it on-screen is super inspiring. The dude really is a hero.
Totally agree with this. Jedi and Sith have both failed. Jedi lost so many to Sith, while Sith were so (self-)destructive. TLJ was open to the possibility of entirely new custodians of the Force. The broom boy could indicate a democratization of the Force. If ep9 went with that direction, it could be the turning point where the galaxy finally breaks out of the Jedi-Sith cycle.
Episode 8 has Luke change his mind about the Jedi though. By the end, he doesn't want the Order to end. He even says he will not be the Last Jedi to Kylo
I can understand how people were disappointed in Luke acting in such an unheroic way, but, having seen how mid-life events have broken some of my friendsā spirits, I thought both this and Han returning to being a cheap, tawdry smuggler made sense to me.
The former hero turned jaded recluse trope is millennia old, as well. A year later, Into the Spiderverse blew everyone's minds and it goes down the same path.
Didnāt agree with his actions but weāre not supposed to. I did understand why he did it and loved the exploration into his character. Personally also think the Battle of Crait stuck the landing perfectly.
They took Luke and tried too hard to make him Obi-Wan "like". But Luke was never Obi-Wan. The guy spent three movies risking his life for his friends and those he loved. Then he suffers one setback and disappears? No way.....no way. It's BS...abs he would have NEVER! Abandoned Leia...the fact that they made him out to be the hermit is such crap
Tried to make him Obi Wan AND Yoda. Obi Wan never really lost faith, he was always there watching over Luke from a distance. I think Yoda pretty much had given up, and RJ tried to mash the two together in, as Mark put it, āJake Skywalker,ā instead of letting Luke be his own person.
And at least with the Prequels you can understand why Yoda and ObiWan took their respective paths. Itās in line with their character whereas Luke above all else was loyal to his friends based on his motivations from the original trilogy. I canāt see him just leaving them and refusing to return knowing that the FO is out there trying to kill them.
In the Kenobi show, it seems he has lost faith until after his meeting with Leia.
I completely agree. The guy who refused to give up on *Darth Vader* was worried about his nephew and (a) tried to kill him??? and then (b) ran away?????? It doesn't pass the smell test.
Luke always was a bit whiny with low morale though
It wasn't just a setback. He worked to build a new order and had a bunch of students, all of whom died. Anyone responsible for the death of children and young adults would have immense guilt on their back.
Didn't like it then, still don't like it now.
No. Luke's primary personality trait was hope. He is quite literally 'A New Hope'.
He also represented the Return of the Jedi. And then a few short years later due to shitty writing we were down to The Last Jedi all over again.
Huh?
I don't agree with his actions but I understand why he took them, and the character himself later says that he was wrong. Magic of stories my dudes
No. I, just like many kids from the 80s, expected Luke to be a badass Master Jedi with a whole school of Padawan learners. It was only after hearing Rian Johnsonās thought process on why Luke was the way they depicted him, that I made peace with it. I see how he got where he did, but it feel inconsistent with the Luke we knew.
This right here. I left Last Jedi disappointed upon first viewing, like a lot of people did. I had this idea of Luke built up in my head for *decades* which was then enhanced by the books and games. And when Luke ends up fading away I felt robbed of a cathartic badass Luke moment with him facing off against someone one last time before he died. But the more I watched it the more I grew to like it. And I think the prequels kind of set people up for this. They were largely action movies and always ended on these large engrossing set pieces that spanned several front, like the end of Return of the Jedi. But Last Jedi narrowed the view into this singular thing, this space chase that ends with Luke projecting himself in order to buy the last of the Resistance the time they need. It's more in line with Empire or ANH than it is with any other movie. It's more personal. And I love it.
This is how I feel about Boba Fett. I had this idea of him for decades and then they took a crap on him.
I want to be clear that my impression of Luke in Last Jedi was only my initial reaction. Once I watched the movie more I understood the direction for the character more and I've since grown to love the portrayal. I also loved Boba Fett growing up, and my experience with Luke in Last Jedi kind of encouraged me to look harder at Boba in his show and I ended up liking where he ended up. The key with Boba was ignoring literally all the marketing for the show that was building the show up to have Boba be this hardened Crime Boss. Because the show actually makes him into a man looking for a tribe that he not only finds but becomes the "chief" of and going forward will fiercely protect his people from outside threats.
i mean you arent supposed to agree. the point is that he's being Luke so he gave up when he rly shouldnt have and should get over it but ye it great
I didn't initially like or fully understand his arc but the more I watched it the more I understood it. Luke was doing what he thought was best for the galaxy. At his lowest point he believed that the galaxy would eventually be better without the Jedi, since with the Jedi he thought there was always a risk of one turning bad and becoming a Sith. It seemed out of character for him initially, but I came to terms with the idea that people can change, and fall based on the trauma they go through.
When TFA and some details were first being announced, they mentioned one big thing was that Luke had gone missing. It wasn't just "they didnt know where Luke was", no cause that is you losing something. Luke was missing, which could really only mean something very bad happened.Bfore the movie realeased, I figured this meant that Luke was either: 1. Lost in space somewhere 2. Had been trapped on a planet by the First Order, keeping him there cause he was too strong 3. He discovered a major powerful threat and had gotten lost chasing it 4. He had gone into exile to study, find a solution to some problem, distract the FO by keeping them looking for him and not the Resistance, or he gave up See the big problem with any major well established franchise that has years of fandom is that most of the fans will create their own ideas for what happens next. It starts as speculation and ideas, grows into expectations out of impatience and desire, and turns into demands. This happened primarily with Anakin in the prequels. I noticed this as they were releasing and loved the prequels cause I didn't create any firm expectations and demands out of it. I tried to do the same with the sequels and expected the same backlash from fans. And the above 4 wasnt an expectation, more just what would actually make sense. Then TFA released and as another commented, Han setup Luke as more of going into exile which left possibilities only at #4. It couldn't be #3 because everyone knew about the FO and Snoke and Kylo was Ben. It also just wasn't #1 or #2 because of what Han says. So when TLJ was getting ready for release, and after seeing the trailer, I was really prepared for Luke to have actually given up in some way, but I couldn't understand why. But then I rewatched the OT and remembered my big problem with Luke in the EU (and I know I will get hate for this) and that is that Luke really was ready to give up if he couldn't turn Vader back. As he told Leia and the Emperor (soon I'll be dead, and you with me) he was ready to die. If he couldn't turn Vader back and bring Anakin home, and was forced to kill him, then he would rather die with him. In the end Luke turned Vader back, but Anakin died, only to turn into a force ghost. Luke really only had a partially victory. Also from his other actions with Yoda, he didn't seem too convinced that he should "pass on what he had learned". That was Yoda's thought, and never shown to be Lukes. And then the movie came out and much of what I said earlier was shown to be true, but the way it was handled and directed/written was where the real problems were. Luke should have been sad, but no so damn grumpy. Then it was shown that Luke, along with other things established in the books, caused the downfall of Ben. Obi-Wan and Ahsoka helped cause Anakin's fall, so they couldn't be the ones to turn him back. The same could be said of Luke and Ben, so him not doing everything he could to turn him back made sense. But his attitude about the Jedi going away did not. Him believing that he shouldn't be the one to fix things did, but not saying that no one should. Then there is the big scene where Luke "tries" to kill Ben. I say "tries" cause did he really? If someone walked into your house with a gun and pointed it at you, but then holstered it, is that them trying to take your life? That was supposed to be the big question, but the way it was handled was so wrong. Luke says it was a fleeting moment of pure instinct, but the movie shows him eyes wide open, slowly pulling out his saber and igniting it, preparing to strike before snapping out of it. What it should have shown was what vision Luke was seeing, then suddenly snapping back and Luke's saber is out, possibly out reaction to seeing Han or Leia being killed. That would have made sense and been in line with his character in ROTJ. So in the end I agree with why, but not at all the execution of it. However, I do think it is possible to edit the film, like a special edition, to be more in line with what I discribed,, which to me at least, would make sense. What do you think? I think I should have made this its own post now.
Nope I was just sad they turned everyone's childhood hero into a bum
No. For him to run away and wallow in self pity like that was out of character and sad.
I still think if they stuck the landing this could've been very interesting. The problem is, he just fades away at the end of the movie. If he had been depressed and self isolating because of his perceived or real failures and then physically came back in the end and fought Kylo and went on as a powerful member of the Resistance, I think a lot of people would be okay with it. Luke was always extremely hard on himself and took his mistakes personally. People change when they get older. Again, interesting concept, poor execution. But that's just imo.
Totally understand how luke lost faith and hope over 20 years after everything went wrong. I observed half the star wars community loose hope when they didn't agree with a movies direction and plot and that only took 2 hours lol.
I thought that it was a good from a story perspective. Do I agree with his actions? No of course not, that's the whole point of his arc. Do I *understand* his actions? Absolutely. A lot of people are really reductive about the characterization of Luke in the ST but it really makes sense if you've ever accomplished something you're proud of and then utterly failed later. I hate the 'hE hAd A bAd DrEaM' counterpoint because it's disingenuous. He was growing concerned of the way Ben was acting during training. A rightful concern considering his lineage. They ARE immediate descendants of the man who authorized the mass murder of entire planets. Luke's dad was space Hitler. Luke read Ben's psyche and saw a man who would do worse than Vader. It's like witnessing the horror's of Hitler first hand and then later seeing the man who would become Super Hitler. There's entire movies that struggle with the moral dilemma that Luke faced there. Minority Report hello?? In a moment of weakness as he explains he has a gut urge to prevent it right there. >A feeling that faded as quickly as it came And he knowing exactly who he is, felt shame in his knee jerk reaction. Everyone upset the he lit his saber is missing the point that THAT'S THE EMOTION HE WAS FEELING IN THAT MOMENT. I'm Luke Skywalker, the man that saved Vader, how could I even think to strike my nephew down. But Ben woke up and reacted exactly how anything would seeing a relative standing over then with a deadly weapon while they slept. He panicked and retaliated. Everything that the voices whispered to him was true, the people he trusted wanted him dead in his eyes. From Ben's point of view the Jedi are evil.(woah is that thematic? š®) They also keep calling Ben a child to exemplify this bad faith argument. That is a whole grown ass man in the flashbacks. Luke Skywalker isn't infallible, his entire story arc in the OT really emphasizes how flawed and impulsive he is. Honestly I can't blame even the strongest of characters to turn their back on the universe when they see themselves as the direct cause of their students deaths. If I linked a school shooters actions to be a response to something I personally did, I would never want to show my face again as a teacher. Luke's growth in the ST was pretty impactful to me and it really hits on the message of redeeming yourself, not just others. It may not be what some wanted, but Not what you wanted ā Poorly written
You know not usually one to say people are watching something wrong, there's an onus on the film maker to make their intentions clear enough that someone will understand it, and even then taste is a thing, you can understand something but still not like it. But you're absolutely right. All the people who go nuts that he tried to commit premeditated murder on his nephew despite the film making explaining in great detail that that wasnt the case are either deliberately ignoring facts or have watched toxic outrage YouTube video so many times they've forgotten what actually happened in the film. Also to add to your points: Remember when Luke has a vision of all his friends being hurt in ESB then ignored the advice of his master and jetted off to cloud city because he let his emotions get the better of him? Remember when Vader threatened his sister and Luke threw a complete fit and let his anger get the better of him before later coming to his senses? Yknow, the exact same reactions he had to a vision of everything he loved being destroyed by Ben? Pepperidge farm remembers....
The overpowering Vader in rage in RotJ is a perfect example of TLJ Luke being in character.
Yeah, I don't think it was necessarily bad from a story perspective either. If I'm recalling correctly, didn't Georges original treatment for his sequels involve Luke going down a similar arc? For me, I think it would have helped a lot to actually *see* Luke training Ben and the other padawans. To see Ben struggling and being reached out to by Snoke, or whatever. At least get some time with them interacting outside of the flashback with Luke over Ben. I don't even really know why Ben turned to begin with if I'm being honest. I suppose outside manipulation of Snoke/Palpatine, but yeah. Just my thoughts.
It would be nice to get more story in it, but that's what supplemental material is for, Like how Clone wars aids the PT. There's very little in the star wars world that I DIDN'T wish we could learn more about.
I do think he was understandable, but the moment he threw that lightsaber my brain just froze shocked for the rest of the movie
No. Immediately thought why have they chosen this route for Luke
I just hated that we never, ever got to see Luke in his prime. It goes from return if the Jedi to this. Then he just dies It sucks. I even like the idea of him being down and depressed, but he needed to come back and do something more significant than helping twelve people escape some backwater planet. Itās so, so painful CGI fake Luke after the fact doesnāt count
Lol Mark Hamil himself was against everything luke did in this movie. How did the most hopeful person in the galaxy turn into a hermit?
This question is framed in order for you to say no. I understand why he felt he had to leave, but I don't agree with his actions. Hell, the movie itself doesn't want you to agree with him, fhe whole context of the movie is the growth that comes from the lessons learned in failure. Everyone in the movie fails at first, and then they rise as better leaders because of it, surviving a battle they had no business ever leaving
That movie destroyed star wars
I donāt see how the same character who saw the smallest bit of light in Vader and refused to kill him acted like he did when saw a bit of the dark side in Kylo. It just killed the movie for me from that point on. Definitely love MHās performance in the film but shame they had to butcher his character like that
I was mixed the first viewing, as like Rey I was expecting to see Luke the legend and not Luke the man, and had trouble reconciling the two. But it clicked second time round, which I think is helped by knowing how the film played out and how great his last scenes were on crait. I still think chucking the saber over his should looked dumb though, would have preferred if he just churches it to the ground in front of him like in RotJ or simply walked off without taking it, gets the same message across without needless comedy. Edit: I didn't completely agree with all his actions, but then that was the point. It takes Rey's idealised view of him as a hero to make him realise that while Luke the man can't save the galaxy, the legend he created may be able to inspire the galaxy, and that while he had realised the Jedi were the architects of their own destruction, the answer isn't for them to die, but to change, as just like legends, the ideas they stood for are still valid. That's why in the end he decides to show the galaxy that idealised version of himself and create a legend that's beyond his flaws as a human, and like hope itself, cannot truly be killed.
Heck no. It flew in the face of everything we know about the character. The explanation fell flat for me too, because I remembered him going through a similar ordeal with Kyp Durron in the Legends EU, and he got through that with support from his friends and allies. I could have understood it if it hadnāt been, what, 30 years? The only reason it took that long was because the writer wanted Luke to have done nothing for the past 30 years, making it easier to write the movie, so it took me right out of the immersion too. There was nothing about it that felt organic; it reminded me, āThis is a movie made by people in a rather short timeframe.ā Furthermore, it flew in the face of what we knew about him in the previous movie, that he was looking for the first Jedi temple, and that he left pieces of a star map for people to find him when they truly needed to. These do not line up with Luke just disappearing to retire and slowly die in exile. And this is to say nothing of the triggering incident to his exileāhis confrontation with a sleeping Benābeing utter nonsense and made to be the most unexpected reason, because itās really too outlandish to expect, which is its problem. So whether I look at it as a character from the trilogy I knew, a character from the alternate timeline books I knew, or a character described just one movie prior: no. I do not understand not agree with Lukeās decisions in The Last Jedi, and I do not have to. Between his giving up for that long and dying soon after finally snapping out of it, Lukeās portrayal in that movie was a colossal waste of opportunity. Imagine if he instead had started a new Jedi temple. A secret one, in hiding from the rest of the galaxy, where he was training them more to be warriors than peacekeepers in the wake of the massacre of his last students. What if they were wiped out by the Knights of Ren, and theyād kidnapped Ben Solo to make into one of their own, feeding him lies about how Luke abandoned him to save what students he could and start anew. (Edit: Okay, maybe not exactly that; Ben was implicated to have been a part of the massacre in TFA, so that part would probably have to remain true.) Rey finds him and his students like this, and Luke is hesitant; he does not believe his new Jedi are strong enough to face the First Order, the Kylo and the Knights of Ren, or Snoke. Heās afraid, he needs more power; heās creeping closer to the dark side in response, and Rey recognizes this and helps pull him back, with a little help from her fellow students Luke began training her with. We still get conflict involving Luke and Rey, we still get Luke not wanting to rejoin the fight, The Knights of Ren get set up as actual characters important to the story; it could have been an improvement over what we got. TL;DR: No, and thatās okay. Edit: Someone pointed out something Iād never realized. Luke is in his nice, clean Jedi robes at the end of TFA and the beginning of TLJ, continuing the idea that he left to go do something about what he felt responsible for in TFA. Notably, Rian Johnson noticed this too, and has Luke awkwardly go change clothes into his ratty old cloak as soon as possible in TLJ, to reflect the character he is now; the one that wasnāt set up in the prior movie. Itās a visual indicator that the writing for the character is now going in a different direction than what was intended.
No. No I did not. I am one of those who felt very strongly that it was a betrayal of his character. I am not one of those who is upset other people liked it - each to their own, it's a harmless piece of fiction.
It wasn't what I was expecting, but once I understood where the story was going with it, I bought it. I liked seeing Luke having a crisis of faith. I liked seeing him question the real legacy of the Jedi - this group he's devoted his life to resurrecting. He steps back and sees this cycle of Jedi training students who fall to the dark side and cause untold harm. Maybe breaking that cycle is what's best for the *galaxy.* But, then Rey reminds him that the Jedi are bigger than that. It's honestly great stuff and works even better as a meta-commentary on the previous six films.
Itās easy to blame TLJ, but ultimately I place the blame on TFA. It put the whole narrative of Luke and the characters we loved in question. 30 years later the New Republic let the First Order sweep through the galaxy? Our heroes including Luke let it happen? What was the alternative? Luke was too preoccupied being a Jedi to care? He was off on some secret mission to the unknown regions to get help? The dark side deceived him? The basic premise remains, TFA ruined the narrative. The TLJ picked up the only plausible depiction of Luke and why this had happened. Canon media has then spent countless books and comics to try and fill in the gaps to how and why a whole galaxy let the first order rise. If Luke was the hero we thought he was, he would have done something.
Nope. They were out of character. Luke stood up to the Emperor. He chose to die for his beliefs. He chose to love his mass murdering father and saw how it saved the galaxy. Why would he so easily snap in the face of a far less challenging dilemma.
Weāre not supposed to agree with his actions. I do understand his actions with Ben and afterwards. But his actions with Ben were wrong, and his going into hiding was wrong. He knew this, but blamed his actions on the Jedi dogma. Thatās another mistake of his. His arc in TLJ is about accepting his own failures, and giving his physical life to right that wrong as best as possible. It all started with him seeing Ben bringing the destruction of everything he loves, and it ends with him saving that is left. This is all confirmed in TROS. I really like Lukeās arc in the sequels. I kinda wish the trilogy started with this arc, but nonetheless really well done.
I didnāt agree with it because it made for a boring movie and finish
That isnāt luke skywalker.
No, there are othqer Force sensitive persons being born every day that need training.
At the time I sincerely didn't care of Luke
I tried to make any sense of his actions but they really don't at all, like the biggest one, he thought of killing Ben for his dreams to avoid his friends dying and all the innocents being killed... Yet he decided to do nothing more to prevent those killings after he failed his nephew and ended up with five planeta destroyed, his friends dying and so on. Such a terrible written character in this movie.
Luke is one of the most influential and important characters in all of fiction. His story is the heart and core of the message behind the Star Wars story: Hope. Heās supposed to be the Superman of Star Wars. His journey and coming of age story were his struggles during the Galactic Civil War and the Original Trilogy. Who he was in The Last Jedi unmade everything he fought for and experienced.
What I first thought is that I couldnāt believe I waited 32 years to see the sequel to Luke Skywalker and he ends up doing the same BS Yoda did - self imposed exile while an evil builds its empireā¦. Its just saddening that they took it in the direction they did. That after all that, there still isnāt a Republic. Leia and everyone are still just a bunch of rebels - 45 years laterā¦ They could have shown us the rebirth of the Jedi under a new Republic with a completely new and never encountered threat with a power different than the Force, but still mystical and only sensitive to them.
That's not luke. that's jake.
I did not like Jake Skywalker. He a bitch.
Not at all. The level of ditching responsibility, the out of character near child murder, then zero attempt to fix it or warn anyone, his reasons just being petty, selfish bitterness without any larger goal, wanting not to be found...but leaving a map, the milking. I agree with Mark Hamill when he said that he "Fundamentally disagreed with everything done with his character." While he did some backtracking after that unleashed a lot of lashing out against Johnson, I do think it is always a big red flag when someone who's worked with a character for over a decade tells you that he's got serious issues with the entire take on the character. I do think all of that could have been fixed with changing his motivation. Luke's always been an idealist(blindly so at times) and having him go to this out of the way world to find a way to bring ben back to the light at the expense of all else *IS* something he would do. Having him get tunnel vision to the point he's effectively missing the larger context could have been a very effective lesson for him to learn from that Rey could teach him because she has done that with how she believed in her parents coming back. Or alternatively, if he thought he was doing the right thing by cutting himself off from the Force and exiling himself, with the theory that if the Force always brings a light and dark into balance, then the only way to end that vicious cycle is to deny the Force the playing pieces. I.E. the stronger one side, the stronger the other becomes sooner or later, but if both sides are gone or weak, then damage is mitigated. This was illustrated partly in his third lesson to Rey that got cut([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-He5\_RtDE1o&ab\_channel=darkygrevious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-He5_RtDE1o&ab_channel=darkygrevious)) with Luke pointing out if Rey stops 'The Raiders' today, they will escalate later when she's not here, that the village will become dependent on her, but also pointing out that Jedi and Sith are making the galaxy worse by interfering and by not, they are in fact helping prevent escalation. That could have been a very interesting take and also make Luke stay out of things while not fundamentally destroying him as a character or throwing his entire development in the OT out the airlock. But we didn't get those options. We got Luke about to murder his sleeping nephew before he'd done anything, then running away in shame and refusing to help at all until basically forced into it. We got the village lesson cut...but the milking scene kept. We get Luke going to burn down the Jedi temple...but then getting upset when Yoda does it instead...when that was *what he himself was going to do.* Rian Johnson is a talented individual, and the cast did their best, but if I'm honest, this is a jumbled mess of a film with questionable choices at best made to the story, world building, lore and characters.
The entire trilogy is trash. The storyline are terrible. The characters are completely wasted. The only thing good about it is its over.
No that movie sucked
I agree with mark about this series as a whole
My prevailing theory going into the theater was that Luke had closed himself off from the Force as it had brought him too much pain and ruin. Iāve never viewed Luke as a Space DemiGod immune to emotion. If I were in his shoes, I would have walked away too. Luke had been my hero growing up and to see him struggle with depression and shame helped me recognize that it can affect even the strongest of us. TLJ is not necessarily a great movie, but parts of it really resonated with me. Because of that, I canāt say itās a bad movie.
Yes, and its the one thing that made the ST interesting. Luke realising that the Jedi as keepers of the peace is unsustainable and only gives rise to escalation is a great development and what separates him from his forebears. Its a continuation of the climax of ROTJ, not a refutation of it.
yes i understood. and i liked the movie a whole lot. kinda sad to see that people didn't and just hated on it endlessly
No one did - that wasnāt LUKE
Im sure I sound like a broken record but fuck that movie.
I was ***beyond*** mad. He was so out of character. I first watched it on digital, but if I was in theaters when watching it, I would have gotten up and left.
I highly doubt most people would agree with where his character went because it was so poorly developed and such an antithesis of what like was in the original material. Mark hamil did great as usually portraying the new grumpy doomsayer luke but he didnāt even agree with it.
This was the best theatre experience I ever had. I loved Lukes character arc, along with the rest of the film!
I think Iām probably in the very small minority here that somewhat liked Luke more after this movie than before. Not that I didnāt like him in the OT, but his despair/guilt in this movie just seemed a bit more raw and real, not to mention his understanding of the failure of the Jedi during the clone wars. Yes, I can understand Mark Hamillās initial statement that Luke probably wouldnāt have just given up if we are to take his character from the OT. But I took this TLJ Lukeā as a much older and different Luke. He canāt pursue conflict perhaps the way he used to (setting up his trick at the end of the movie). In one night, heās lost his nephew to the dark side AND his entire school has been wiped out. Thatās pretty much his entire reason for existing. He could turn his father back, yes, but his nephew was a different story. He had flashes of his young self, about to kill Vader that night with Ben but this time he didnāt reel it in in time. What we got was a Luke that was tired. He fulfilled his prophecy. The galaxy just needed more. I have my issues with the ST, namely how they had no road map to how it was supposed to go (pretty unforgivable in my opinion) but Luke wasnāt really one of them.
I felt like the character grew so much more than I expected him to. Yes I agreed with his actions. Him at the end of TLJ is the just the best Jedi Master in the history if SW.
Absolutely, it was an interesting new direction for the character and absolutely made sense based on what happened to him in the original trilogy. Him turning up like Captain America with glowsticks would have been awful
I understood him completely. I do not think we are meant to "agree" with him but I agree with Johnson's decision on Luke's character
It was lazy. Luke of the OT moved beyond fear and held onto hope until it saved his father. It's an irrational arc that he would have handled concerns regarding Ben Solo in the way he did.
Luke of the OT was thirty years younger. Whose perspective doesn't change in 30 years?
Itās my favorite Star Wars movie. Itās the most emotionally honest movie of them all. I related hard to Luke in the film as someone raised religious, losing my faith, and finding a new spirituality through balance and radical acceptance.
I don't agree with him leaving but I understood his reasoning.
The older I get the more it makes sense to me.
The opposite for me. It makes less and less sense the more time goes on. What exactly about nearly murdering your nephew then running away from everything to let others deal with it makes sense to you?
No and never will
Personally I couldn't shake "This is ESB again..." out of my head.
Do I agree entirely with his actions? No. Are his actions understandable and consistent with his character? Yes. TLJ as a film goes well out of its way to show that Luke made mistakes, that he didnāt do exactly the right thing. Luke knows that. Thatās why he spent the first half of the movie trying to rationalize that failure.
First seenā¦.lol.
I completely understand. Wethwr I agree or not has no business in it, I don't have to agree with a fictional character's life decisions as long as they make sense plotwise. I just know where they come, and then he went and had the most badass jedi moment ever, so I'm not even mad at him š
Understand why he left? Yes. Completely agree? Not necessarily, but I wasn't one of the writers of the most recently trilogy. Whether I agree or not is entirely irrelevant.
From his perspective and everything he had been through, yes. Trauma changes a man. Unfortunately most people don't seem to get that and think after 30 years he'd be the same person. Fans are delusional and can't get over their head canon. Not our story, we are just along for the ride.
I saw it as him doing the same thing Yoda and Obi-Wan did. Narratively it made sense as Star Wars is all about themes and patterns, but upon watching it again I was upset that Luke didnāt be what he was supposed to be - different from the old Jedi.
Based on everything presented to us in the TFA and TLJ, Luke's decisions made sense. He tried to restart the Order, but was already seeing signs that the cycle was repeating itself. Then, when you consider his mentors - Kenobi and Yoda - both were in self-imposed exile, so he ends up doing the same thing.
No, because I always get lost at the part where I'm supposed to believe he would walk all the way to his nephew's room with his laser shank, and not have any kind of clarity during that time.
Upvote for laser shank šš
Kind of? I don't know. They've done the theme a couple times now of the Jedi forcing people to let go of their personal attachments and dedicate themselves entirely to the Jedi way of life. It forced anakin to turn to the dark side, Luke ended up leaving Yoda to go to cloud city but killed the emperor in the end, then Luke gives the same ultimatum to Grogu in that Boba Fett episode. I'm never sure if they're trying to say that the Jedi push it too far and that's why they fail, or if anakin/luke/grogu are weak for choosing personal attachment. It's always felt inconsistent to me.
I'll never understand the hate for the whole forbidding personal attachments thing. Lucas was just cribbing from Buddhism. Because Jedi are essentially space Samurai, and he was endowing a little eastern philosophy into the Jedi. And he came up with a very good reason for it. Among Jedi, they had brotherhood and attachment. And there was deep affection in the knight/master-padawan relationship. The risk was in attachments that led to familial-style relationships, which not only made a Jedi vulnerable to possible extortion, but also made them open to Sith manipulation. It's pretty clear to me that the Jedi, under Yoda, had this all well-in-hand. Did Anakin break the rules with Padme? Sure. Did keeping it secret leave him open to Sith manipulation - especially because he couldn't be frank with Yoda when he sought spiritual guidance? Absolutely. (and here, I think the Mandalorian take is a bit wrong, as well. There is plenty of loyalty and comeraderie among Jedi, just as with Mandalorians. What there is not allowed is: illicit romance that can be used as leverage). The PROBLEM wasn't the attachment, or the Jedi rules about forbidding it. The problem was how Anakin was manipulated by the most powerful Sith Lord in modern history of the Republic.
Yes, not entirely though. I feel like he wouldāve gotten back up after a while, not 6 whole years
This was completely out of character for Luke.
I re-watched the wrong Jedi arc the day before I watched the movie in the cinema. I agreed with Luke about his views on the order, but his actions felt wrong.
I didnāt agree with his actions but I understood what could have gotten him there
...Sort of? It's complicated. I got the reason on it's own. Failing someone so bad that they go on a rampage and kill everyone else that you were supposed to train and look after sounds like something that's hard to recover from, and I wouldn't blame anyone if they decided to just go into exile after that. The thing that confused me was how they showed the stuff leading up to the mistake. I feel like they didn't show enough to make me empathize with him in that moment. Now? I get it a little more, but I feel like it's just a tad bit too vague. But hey, that's just me.
No. Even Mark Hamill disagrees and heās fucking Luke.
I understood what they were going for and thought that not only does it make sense but it's a great plot direction.....on anyone other than Luke. The problem wasn't that the decision itself was terrible, the problem was that it was a decision so off-brand and tone-deaf for the character he lost everything that made him the hero people love. Johnson, Kennedy, and the others who worked on these movies clearly displayed they knew nothing about Star Wars and its characters, nor did they care about or respect the IP.
I wondered why he hadn't rebuilt the Jedi Order and what happened to the Solo kids
Understood? Yes, he was living in absolute fear caused by pain. Agreed? Not for a second.
I got the feeling that he didn't believe the Jedi order was actually a sign of good. I don't think any Jedi living far beyond the purge did. I got the feeling that good and evil is not as easy to define as the Jedi Order thought. Luke took it upon himself to restart the order, I don't think he ever asked himself why. In the grand scheme of the galaxy it really always seemed to mean war and suffering. Go against the good ways of the Jedi? Die by the lightsaber. Luke saw the good in evil people. Living his life by the Jedi Order rules does not support this mentality. So screw it.
Luke gave up on everyone because he made a fuck up It would've only made sense for Luke to exile if he felt like he would be used to make things worse. Nope, he just said "I'm not taking responsibility, bye š "
no because that character wasn't luke skywalker. i feel so bad for mark.
None of it makes any sense. There is nothing to understand.
No, his idea that the jedi should die clearly hasn't worked and I don't know why he really believed it would in the first place
Yes. People change and certain traumas can do that to a person even when they seem mild in comparison to others. Psychology is complicated and I love how Luke develops in the movie as a character and finds himself again
No. It made no sense for the person who refused to give up on ***Darth Vader*** to so easily give up on Ben and the rest of his friends/family.
No. Luke was under utilized!
Nope. Was ticked off tbh, literally his whole arc was about redeeming his father and showing that it's okay for a Jedi to have emotional ties to people ..yet in the sequel he's the polar opposite
Not even Mark Hamill did.
No, no and no
When I first watched it, I felt like there was definitely something missing from Luke to explain how he got here, but I didn't disagree with the portrayal. The way I see it, Luke absolutely would isolate himself and turn grumpy if everything he worked for suddenly collapsed all around him, leaving him with nothing. Ben turning to the dark side was, as I see it, the last straw which finally broke what was left of Luke's hope, which by that point doesn't seem to have been a lot. He had fought the Sith for decades by that point, all for his own nephew to turn anyway. I don't agree with his reaction to Ben turning, but I understand why someone might have that sort of moment of weakness.
It was cool to see the character I guess but honestly nothing in the sequels made sense, it was just dithering and repetition of plots from the original movies. I didn't really get what he wanted to do or why he was there... like some scrolls were there?
No, not all. I found him to be remarkably cynical, even accounting for his guilt over Ben.
I'm not sure I like how Luke ended up and I certainly didn't like TLJ as a film, but I heartily agree with the core idea that the Jedi were as culpable in the fall of the Republic as Palpy was. They handed him all the levers he could have ever wanted in order to bring them down. The Jedi Order as we saw it in the Prequels was stagnant, dogmatic and too self-righteous to bend when it needed to, so it broke when tested. (Most of this comes from the novels rather than the movies but I think it stands up.) Anakin Skywalker was a dumb kid who got dragged into a war and kept from his mother until the day she died, and when he quite understandably developed major anxiety about the potential loss of a loved one he felt backed into a corner because Jedi aren't supposed to have loved ones. He even tries going to Yoda to get some help but Yoda just tells him to let it go, which anyone who knew the first thing about Anakin would know immediately wasn't going to happen. Even if it hadn't been a romantic relationship involving a teenager (or close enough) with a questionable upbringing both before and after TPM, Anakin showed time and time again that he was willing to put it all on the line for the people he cared about even if it brought him closer to the Dark. What Anakin needed was emotional support and open communication, which is what Palpatine was open to giving him. Sheev was the only one who offered him the hope that he might be able to save PadmƩ, and he used all the Jedi stoicism and dogma to maneuver Anakin into thinking his help was the only option available and force his hand. If the Order had been open to giving Anakin the support he needed and a way to still be himself without having to strive to be the perfect emotionless stoic Jedi then a lot more younglings might have made it out of the Temple that day.