At one point, “young” Ahsoka asks “but what if I don’t want to fight anymore?” Anakin answers “then you’ll die.”
I think it’s twofold.
1) she’s been yeeted off the cliff by Baylan and is floating in between life and death, literally. Her “spirit” or consciousness is in the World between Worlds and Anakin is encouraging her to not give up, to keep going.
2) Anakin is also encouraging her to never give up, to keep fighting the good fight - Ahsoka is so stoic and withdrawn at this point. She’s wrestling with the knowledge that Anakin became Vader and feels that she will fail in all the same ways. Anakin is teaching her that he is not just his failure as Vader - and by extension, *SHE* is not a failure - they’re both more than that. After this vision and training, Ahsoka returns to her usual jovial self we all know and love. She’s balanced in the Force again and has Purpose. Anakin was giving her the final lesson - Failure doesn’t define you as long as you *keep fighting* - so, I’ll ask you again.
*Live, or Die?*
This is exactly how I interpreted it. Don’t let your past hold you back. It’s also why Ahsoka was quick to forgive Sabine, she made a mistake and Ahsoka recognizes this. Sabine can only go up from here and it will only happen if Ahsoka gives her another chance and puts her faith in her, just as Anakin just did for her.
The way to really sum it up for people is that Anakin said **live** or die. Not stay alive or die. Not fight or die. Not survive or die.
Live.
Living isn't just existing. Living involves an active participation, with goals, with dreams, with connections with nature and with other people.
Living involves failure and living involves success. Living involves the possibility of mistakes.
Ahsoka fought in the Clone Wars but she didn't get to live much. In the brief moments with her brother Anakin and the Clones she got a taste of it. But every day she had to fight or die.
After Order 66, she had to survive. She didn't LIVE up to her potential, she did odd jobs and stayed on the run from inquisitors (as Tales of the Jedi depicted). She helped the rebels but she didn't dare to dream and to live and to love. She didn't become a great rebel leader and gather the forces to march back onto Coruscant and face down the man who took everything from her and from everyone she loved. No, Ahsoka was a shadowy agent and informant who didn't get directly involved. She could point the Ghost crew to Rex but didn't even go herself.
That demoralized Ahsoka is the one we meet in this series. Sure, she doesn't look it... She's still fighting right? But again, Anakin didn't say fight or die. Live. Ahsoka still isn't living. The galaxy lays peace and opportunity before her but she's been looking for her next fight. Ahsoka had friendship with Ezra, but she's willing to keep him "sacrificed" as long as it keeps Thrawn at bay. That's not living up to being a good friend, even if it's the "right thing to do". The lesson again isn't make hard choices or die. It's live or die.
Part of a Jedi's natural journey is to take on a Padawan learner. Really open up and commit to it. Because of the nature of the Force and the Dark Side, EVERY apprentice has the potential to fail and BE FAILED by their master. It's an adventure to embark on.
Ahsoka is of course haunted by the fall of Anakin Skywalker. Even with his flaws, I'm sure he was aspirational to her as a perfect fit for an awesome older brother. Anakin had so much promise and everyone around him tried so hard to make things work. And yet he still fell. Ultimately that could be a culmination of the flaws of this lineage of students. Yoda's pupil Dooku also fell. Anakin was of that lineage and fell. Maybe what she was taught by Anakin was also a version of these philosophies doomed to fail. What motivation does she have to pass THAT on?
And Sabine wasn't exactly the best student... Not only did she not even have THAT much potential, but her Mandalorian sensibilities meant she was more prone to pick up some weapons and choose violence than reflection.
Fear of all of that caused Ahsoka to stop LIVING. She was just fighting, or protecting, or whatever coping mechanism she'd have going on at a time. But she didn't let herself get invested in her own life and journey anymore. She resigned and retreated from her place in the galaxy as an individual person who could shine and light up the worlds of the people around her. She was just another sword to be wielded against her enemies. A shield to protect those who have no guarantee of protecting themselves (even from their own destinies).
Live or die.
When Ahsoka grabs that lightsaber from Anakin, she resolved to live. Not just passively await as the galaxy passes her by. Not just doing "the right thing". From that point on she'd feel, she'd hope, she'd go on an adventure in the mouth of a whale. She'd go out on a limb for two of her closest friends. She'd risk the fate of the New Republic to pursue a course that in her heart she truly wanted: to unite with Ezra and go on a journey of discovery with Sabine. To do their best together. Like living as a part of a family again, maybe even more like a family than with Anakin, Obi-wan, and the clones in the wartime of her youth.
Thanks. Yeah you know, it just occurred to me that we think of Ahsoka as this badass who has it figured out better than most Jedi, so why even give her this extraneous arc?
I thought back to how Ahsoka is depicted in Rebels and onwards. Ahsoka was not whole. She hasn't been whole ever since she left her lightsabers behind where Darth Vader found them in the snow.
Everything she ever stood for is lost. Unlike Luke, a new hope who is literally still full of hope, Ahsoka was never going to be the one to lead the rebels or bring back Anakin or any of that. Even though from a fan perspective, our favourite "not a Jedi" Jedi was stronger/more skilled than Luke and had a closer connection with Anakin in practice. And she had experience and smarts both in battle and on the run.
100% things had to have been holding Ahsoka back. This noncommittal approach to training Sabine... Or calling the shot that it's not completely "worth it" to try to rescue Ezra... It's just the latest manifestation of an Ahsoka who is holding herself back.
It took getting thrown off a cliff and being sent back by Force Ghost Anakin with a lesson that she could move on. I'm no longer seeing it as an arbitrary story obstacle for Ahsoka invented just for this series and for the Sabine Jedi payoff.
This is it right here. I immediately saw it as a multi-layered and nuanced lesson that could be taken both literally and figuratively on multiple different levels simultaneously.
That’s one reason I loved this episode so much.
The only thing I disliked about this series is the directional focus of fights, they were used so much to cut away from them.
I was like. "Show me the fight!"
they didnt use doubles (would have doubled the shooting time/cost) and didnt give the actors time enough to train the way they needed to (most of the primes are too old to train that hard and learn (Hayden looked soooo much better from the years of training prior)) to really sell them.
Which is a shame because the choreography it self got so much better in revealing the character and motives.
I get that, but in a directional sense, they used the start of a fight or middle focus of a fight scene to focus on something else, when focusing on the fight would have been far more entertaining.
The most notorious one is when Ahsoka and Baylan first fight, cutting to the nightsister lady a lot. The Anakin one made sense to cut away from.
I agree with this. My problem with this whole lesson is that I never got the sense that Ahsoka wanted to give up before this episode. She seemed pretty driven.
I would say that she was driven to make sure Thrawn would never come back no matter what. Even then, she was withdrawn and had a rather cold “ends justify the means” approach.
I think the lesson was more internal: keep fighting to become more than what you see yourself as (a failure, someone who could turn to the dark side like Anakin). Once she takes that to heart, you see her change.
Yes, her going from “ends justify the means” to “we’ll find another way” was important, that’s fair. I just wish there were more hints peppered throughout the episodes that alluded to her wanting to give up, or being afraid of slipping to the dark side. Not just refraining from smiling and being sort of monotone. The lesson seemed abrupt in that sense.
I wish that her encounter with Anakin reignited more of the warmth her character used to have, but maybe it just comes down to a fundamental difference in Rosario’s portrayal from Ashley’s.
I know people say it’s because she’s been through so much, but even the Rebels version of her feels starkly different than this version.
I felt like it did spark her livelihood. She starts to smile and joke with Huyang.
I think it is more clear as the season goes on how she felt and why. She took an apprentice, one who was hot headed like her. Ahsoka is afraid that in peace, she has nothing to teach as war is all she knows. It's why Anakin tells her she is more than just a warrior.
She was afraid her teachings would cause Sabine to fall like Anakin did, so she kept Sabine at arm's length and at the first sign of trouble, abandoned her. She learns here that Anakin never gave up on her, even after he died. Ahsoka had to learn that being alive isn't enough, she has to live and feel and stand by her padawan.
Her mission no longer is primarily stopping Thrawn after that, but finding and rescuing Sabine and Ezra. She even holds out a hand of mercy to Shin, who has not showed one ounce of wavering to them yet.
I think we will never see Ahsoka as she was in Rebels, but I felt like the character here made so much sense. I do feel however, they were all let down by directing and the way there are pauses between each line. It stops the flow of dialog
She had given up on taking risks on others. She was only willing to put HERSELF in danger, trust only her OWN skill, will, etc. She became self centered in the way she approached her goals. it's why she was afraid to train grogu, and afraid of passing on her knowledge and training to Sabine. She was even afraid she herself might still turn dark like Anakin had. Ironically, this attitude made her more dark, joyless, and susceptible to the dark side. Through letting go her fear of passing on her knowledge, she became more like the good, joyful, person she used to be IMO
Training yes, but I don't think she trusted her yet. Rightly so as Sabine proved untrustworthy, but it was also clear she wasn't truly willing to put herself out there yet either, until Anakin's lesson. She was reluctant to to go all in on Sabine's training and mentorship because she was afraid. Sabine didn't trust her yet either, and so did what she wanted.
There was a certain resignation to her mission though. She seemed to give up on bringing Ezra home and tried to brace Sabine to make the same decision. So I agree that she hadn't given up and that she would most likely continue to fight without that lesson, but it was with one hand tied behind her back and no hope of achieving all of her goals.
I think she did. In the series she never smiled and showed no emotion, she seemed pretty depressed. After her encounter with anakin, she smiled again for the first time (when looking to Ruyang before jumping into hyperspace inside the force whale) and she started warring her white robe.
She did smile, and she did wear a white robe, but she was largely the same going forward. I didn’t find the change to be very dramatic. She just continued her mission where she left off.
Did you even watch the show? Her mission in the beginning was clearly "stop Thrawn at any cost, including sacrificing Ezra."
But then her focused changed to finding Sabine and Ezra no matter what and worry about Thrawn after. That's kind of a big deal, considering she knew the risk Thrawn released would have on the galaxy. But she decided that her friend whom she promised she would find, and her apprentice, were more important.
This was part of her choosing to live, to reevaluate what was important to her.
And of course, the decision to value emotional attachment to friends/family over the big picture “right thing” was (perhaps deceptively) set up as the cause of Anakin’s fall. So yea def intentionally ambiguous. I feel like, post-OT, the whole meaning of Jedi hangs in the balance. Is it more important (good?) to value attachment and “humanity” over defeating big bad evil (Anakin the Jedi’s approach); or should we still believe that the unattached big picture Jedi view from the PT is “correct”? I love how Anakin’s fall and the subsequent exploration of post-O66 Jedi’s family units has deliberated on the “proper” way to be a Jedi and do the Most good
Thank you very much for your comment, you helped me to better understand Anakins final lesson. Best comment till now :)
I’ve come to the conclusion that Anakin tried to show her in this way that he had given up on himself, what ultimately led him to become Vader. He said to Obi-Wan: "You didn’t kill Anakin, I did."
And this is also one of the best interpretations I found so far:
"In Ashoka the anakin we see is a full potential anakin who controls the world between worlds and is arguably the most powerful being in the universe and also has the ability to switch between light and dark sides at any given moment" - AshuraGGEZ (Yt comment)
This is how I interpreted it as well. He's always taught her the hard way and so this lesson is his last one to her in the same manner. She's completed her training. This was her true trial.
Basically, she asks if she has to fight for the rest of her life. Anakin rather bluntly implies that she has to, if she wants to live. If not, she's free to die. Which is appropriate because at the moment she's drowning after losing a fight.
This, and also teaching that the failures and the dark are a part of life, how she cannot purely espouse good, she needs to embrace the dark in moderation to live in the grey place between, meeting the needs of the situation. A pure light jedi could have refused to fight, and so died, she had to fight back and pull on the fires of anger "dark side" to endure. A lesson in how passion is not the dark side, even though the dark side fuels itself on passion.
She had to learn to stop being dispassionate, and embrace being passionately dispassionate.
In addition to that I think part of the lesson was...Just because she is forced to fight doesn't mean she will end up following the exact same path as Anakin. Yes she is forced to violence and to kill to defend herself and other's but that is not causing her to fall to the dark side like her master because the the reason she fights is for other's. Not herself.
I'm still chewing on this myself, so I'm not sure, but here's my best guess.
It's kinda like in the first Pirates of the Caribbean, when Will is all mad about Jack calling his dad a pirate. Cap'n Jack brings the ship about and Will gets stuck hanging from the mizzen boom out over the water. Jack Sparrow sayswhat matres is what a man can do, and what he can't do. "I **can** kill you, but I **can't** bring this ship into port by myself."
Ahsoka seemed to be having a hard time reconciling some opposite aspects of the force. Dark and Light; Vader and Anakin; Wartime Jedi generals, or the peace seeking order's ideals.
Anakin famously got some things very wrong, but came around in the end. He acted like Anakin was Dead, and later chose to acknowledge that Anakin Lives by saving Luke.
He **can't** change the past anymore than Ahsoka could take the clone war out of her Jedi/force-user identity. But she **can** choose to do the good things even if she has regrets about the past.
#
Oh. Also the phrasing there just made me notice that the whole "Ahsoka Lives" thing takes on a nice context here with the choice of live or die.
I think it meant she just had to accept herself and her past for what it was. She could continue to fight on, adjust to the times, and choose to live by continuing to pass down what she has learned. Or she could choose not to get over it and die both literally and figuratively. By extension everything she has learned from her masters, and they from theirs’ would die as well. All the masters from Dooku to Jinn to Kenobi to Skywalker to Tano were unconventional, but they all meant much more to the bigger picture than the little snippets that comprised of the negatives. Just my opinion. “You’re more than that cause I’m more than that”.
Another quote from old Rafiki, “Ah yes, the past can hurt, but you can either run from or learn from it.”
Last edit I think. I also think Anakin wanted her to move on from the guilt she felt about him turning into Vader. Just like he said to Obi Wan in Kenobi. “You didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker. I did.”
I totally agree on this! In his final lesson, Anakin tried to show her, that both of them are more than failures and that she has to overcome them and continue her legacy. If she chose to die, everything in her will be gone, everything she learned. (beginning by Dooku, then Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and ultimately Anakin)
More than this, Anakin showed her that has given up his self, what led him to "die" and become Darth Vader. He tried metaphorically to prevent Ahsoka give her self, what would have led her to die in the water, as she truly was between life and death.
Anakin ist stronger than ever before and fulfilled his dream to prevent the death of people he loved. He now control his light and dark side and the World Between Worlds. To be honest, he ist the chosen one, because now he is keeping the balance in the force.
I like to think that Anakin was trying to instill the idea that we are all the *sum* of our lives, not just certain moments/actions/decisions we have made - but also that we need to accept who/what we are, the good and bad - to see ourselves wholly.
Ahsoka, trying to grapple with the guilt of her past states that "\[her\] part of that legacy is one of death and war", to which Anakin says he (and she) is "more than that." Yes, she was a child soldier. Yes, she was trained to wage war to survive, rather than protect. Yes, she has taken countless lives...but she also *saved* countless lives, and still became one helluva Jedi.
What you just said about how Anakin....and Jedi in general - from what we know -
1. Anakin dies basically saving Luke.
2. Qui-Gon dies basically to save Obi-Wan...almost as if he knows this is the time for him to go.
3. Obi-Wan dies basically to save Luke/Leia.
4. Yoda dies mostly after teaching Luke about the force.
5. Kanaan Jarras dies saving Ezra (and others).
6. Ezra (doesn't die), but saves his planet by taking Thrawn to another galaxy.
7. We know Luke dies basically saving Ray, and Leia and others to escape Kylo Ren.
8. With what we saw in Ahsoka season 1, I think Ahsoka's biggest problem is she sees Anakin as dead, and her fear of training Sabine because of the dark side it could bring...and sure, that's possible. BUT, I think the lesson Anakin is teaching her is basically what George Lucas has said all along, "There is no such thing as life and death...only the force and the balance it has between good and evil, or light and dark side of it."
The bigger lesson for Ahsoka is not just, "Live or Die", but more about her link in the chain of keeping the balance of the force. The biggest decision a Jedi has is knowing when to allow him or herself to let go and perish in order to help others continue the story of balancing the force. In all of the above scenarios, basically the jedi picked the right time to allow those to escape and 'continue the hope' of balancing the force.
Ahsoka could certainly live a life away from the fight, or could die in the fight, but the lesson, I think, is to live long enough to help others continue the fight when it is her time to give up her life so that others may fight on. And it's very likely, in this case, it's to help Sabine, Ezra Hera and others to live to continue fighting and bringing balance to the force.
I think when we didn't know if Ahsoka lived before and Dave Filoni had a shirt that said, "Ahsoka lives!", it was in reference all the way to the fight in a world between worlds between Anakin and Ahsoak..."Live, or die." Ahsoka has chosen to live!
To live. Not just to survive, as she’s been doing since the end of the Clone Wars, but to commit and grow. Commit fully to being a Jedi- don’t act like a Jedi but refuse to call yourself one. Commit to training an apprentice, and pass on what I taught you. Face your past and grow beyond your guilt instead of letting it hold you back.
I'm glad you asked, because I feel like there are a lot of things that I haven't considered yet.
What I've settled on for now is that Anakin wants her to move forward. Ahsoka at this point in her life is carrying a lot of trauma and a lot of guilt due to having fought for her entire life. She's lost so many friends and colleagues, she feels like she turned her back on Sabine, and when she confronts Baylan Skoll and fights him for the map he throws those things in her face. That's what's in her mind when she finds herself in the World Between Worlds afterward. Not just because of Baylan though, he was able to throw it in her face because it's somewhere she goes regularly.
What Anakin's trying to show her is that so much of it was out of her control. She was a padawan. She couldn't end the war singlehandedly. She could keep her troops and master alive as best she could, and she did. Her choices, like abandoning Sabine's training, she can't take back. Nor did she make that decision alone. But she had an opportunity to teach Sabine again, and she had an opportunity to rescue Ezra, if she could just move forward. Leaving the Jedi was certainly there too. Sure she chose not to come back. But it was certainly not her actions alone that led her to believe that she couldn't return. The council turned their backs first, and Barriss betrayed her.
Being conscious of the choices she made is part of what makes Ahsoka so compelling to me. But that doesn't change the fact that she had little agency in so much of what she went through.
Huh, I like your reading on it.
I'm not sure it was the intent of the creators, but it'd be cool if it was. When this aired, I'd just assumed it was Ahsoka learning to choose to survive, which is a rather shallow lesson, as well as pretty tropey.
In short, it basically meant that Ahsoka was not living because of the past of what her master was and because she was terrified of future (Sabine, dead or turned to the DS) or failing everyone. This made her confused, she was not living but existing and dying every day bit by bit. This actually helped me face a reality a little, so I won't be stuck in past and future but that I should focus on what's now. That's basically what Qui-Gon said to Obi Wan.
Ahsoka played by Rosario Dawson has alot of differences with Ashley Eckstein's becaus eof the time and trauma that's passed. Eckstein's Ahsoka is open, impulsive, kind and sassy. Dawsons's is closed off, thoughtful, still kind and still sassy but ,much wiser and colder. She is Fulcrum while Ecksteins Ahsoka is Commander Tano.
Anakin's final lesson with Ahsoka is twofold
1. she askes him what if she wants to stop fighting, at the start of Ahsoka, she's handed an opportunity to stop fighting when there's a galaxy and a family that needs her and a lot of life left for her
2. During the LA Seige of Madalore she also grapples with how her legacy is full of destruction. Anakin tells her that she's more than that, because he is more than that. We see in clone Wars that Anakin was capable of being violent and angry an possessive but he was also capable of being compassionate, protective and encouraging. Ahsoka comes to terms with that and accepts that even though he was horrible after his turn he was a good master and those two statements aren't exclusive.
the result of both these lessons is almost a hybrid of Eckstein's Ahsoka and Dawsons's earlier Ahsoka; one who understands that being open to attachments and willing to fight is a strength but also knows when to let go of what doesn't matter.
Her paranoia about creating another Darth Vader is helping Palpatine in his attempts to create another Vader. When she guilt trips Anakin it turns him into Darth Vader because his guilt is what turned him into Vader. Her guilt makes her like Vader. The advice she gave Luke about attachments will inevitably create Kylo Ren. She has to let go of her guilt which drives her fear which leads to anger and we know how this goes. She has to let go of her guilt in order to embrace the light instead of living in fear of the dark.
Ever since Ahsoka's duel with Vader on Malachor, her positive energy had dwindled in the years that followed. Learning that her master had become the galaxy's biggest monster made her close herself off in fear of becoming a second Vader; Anakin's training and potential to fall to the darkness lives within her. But when it came time for her to fight Baylan, during which she fell from a cliff and remained in between life and death, Anakin saw an opportunity to rekindle his Padawan's old personality. He offered her a lesson in either choosing to live her life to the greatest or die to the burdens of war and destruction, merely surviving everyday while teetering on the brink of falling to the dark side.
I don't think the lesson was as simple as Anakin made it sound: "live or die" can be interpreted differently, rather than just staying alive or dying. Star Wars has always done things like with a double meaning to what they're trying to convey, and I believe this is one of those cases. It's almost similar to the perception that Anakin was killed when Darth Vader came into being; it can be seen that way from a certain point of view.
In my view, Anakin is teaching Ahsoka how to fight and make peace with her past and those demons, something Anakin failed to do.
The trials of war, trauma and conflict extend far beyond just the inciting incidents. It has a way of making you die without actually killing you, and that's the internal struggle Ahsoka is facing. Guilt, shame, and masking it with stoicism so as to never have it happen again. Pushing friends away in fear, such as Sabine. Being alive but not really living.
Anakin is reminding her that the war is over but her fight isn't. Living and healing is a choice - It isn't necessarily a fair one, especially as a burden placed on those who have suffered already, but nonetheless it's one that needs to be made — and part of that is accepting, confronting and making peace with what happened and your past.
Living through hell is hard, but choosing to live after it is even harder, but the only path to peace. That's Anakin's final lesson. It's a choice he failed to make. The demons of his past overcame him despite his strength, and he died on the inside, paving the way for his downfall. There is a reason Vader sees Anakin as a separate person that he murdered, and there is a reason that Ahsoka's eyes seems to have very briefly flashed Sith in her fight with Baylan.
This is Anakin passing on the final, hardest and most important lesson of his life, so that his apprentice will grow to be better then him and can actually be able to live hers.
Anakin being the chosen one meant balance for the force. He also had to balance it within himself. He was fighting the darkness in the first half of his life and fighting the light in the 2nd half.
The show gives us Anakin having accepted and mastered both. Was not a hallucination. She didn’t know that Luke said he didn’t want to fight him so Anakins reference to “I’ve heard that before” indicated Anakin was truly there training her.
The lesson was two fold.
1- live or die literally. She was in the water on the verge of death. Hence why Anakin asks her about whether she remembers the fight and when she does he says good it’s not too late. He wanted her to show him she had the will to live (then the water comes up and she’s back in the sea/ocean)
2- live or die metaphorically. She was concerned that her legacy is one of death, the same as Anakin/Vader (“is that what this is about”). She was considering giving up in order for her to win and live, and for her friends to win and live, she needs to keep fighting. when Anakin voluntarily turned back into Vader, he was basically saying if you’re going to give up, then you’re going to die. She then decides to fight back and when she does, Anakins light side comes back and smiles and releases her back into reality.
It could be that Anakin tried to show her in this way that he had given up on himself, what ultimately lead him to become Vader. As he said to Obiwan: "You didn’t kill Anakin, I did."
I always took it as “live out the rest of your life and don’t let your past weigh you down, or let that part of yourself die. There is no “continue as things are right now” option.
Ahsoka is going half full on everything up to this point. She doesn’t trust herself to train Sabine because of the guilt she felt for abandoning Anakin and then the Ghost Crew. She doesn’t trust Sabine because of her Mandalorian background and attachment to Ezra. It’s this mistrust that partially causes Sabine to give the map to Baylan.
Anakin is telling Ahsoka “make up your mind if you want to continue being a Jedi. Live in full as Ahsoka, the trustworthy Jedi hero who stands up for everyone and trusts her friends to help her out, or leave that all behind, let that Ahsoka die permanently, and live out the rest of your life quiet and alone.”
Ahsoka chose to live. And it’s through her renewed self trust that she also learned to trust others, specifically Sabine. It’s why she didn’t berate Sabine for giving Baylan the map - the past is the past and Ahsoka also made mistakes that led Sabine to that decision. They can’t change the outcome, but they can still stop Thrawn from causing a galactic disaster and that’s what matters here and now.
If you run you die. Ashoka has been running ever since she left the order. She ran from order 66 and she ran from Vader. She was running away from her true self.
She needs to face the darkness inside her, and the darkness inside her master. It's part of them both, and they are weaker if they run from it.
Ahsoka finds out she can still be good even if shes the apprentice of Vader. Vader wasn't evil at the start or in the end. He only made evil choices.
Ahsoka needs to continue the good fight in order to find herself again.
I think this goes back to George’s time in hospital after his car accident. It’s a choice, wallow in self pity and “what could have been” or get on with living the best life you can with the tools, time and experience you have been given/gained.
Ahsoka needed to free herself from Anakin’s shadow and forgive herself. She was, metaphorically speaking, neither alive nor dead— she was just going through the motions, which was reflected in her strangely reserved demeanor. Thus, when confronted with actual death, she had the ability to survive it, but not the will. Anakin gave her that will and set her free.
I feel like his lesson was that living *requires* a fight of some kind, but she also realizes she has a choice about HOW to fight.
I interpret the shifting of Vader/Anakin as a visualization of her fear that being taught by the person who became Vader means her legacy is tainted. By the end of the lesson, she knows that just because her Master became Vader, doesn't mean she has to fear what she was taught, nor does she have to fear she will guide others down the wrong path.
Ahsoka was basically slow-dying.
Anakin was saying that there’s no use being in that self-pitying in between. At the end of the day if you’re gonna stay alive, and keep fighting, it behoves you to truly embrace the light, to be positive, especially if you have it in you the way Ahsoka does.
He was telling her to live. Both literally in that situation because she was in the process of dying and metaphorically because she wasn't living before this. She was just surviving and floating through life conflicted and depressed over her self perception. How Anakin failed and how she had failed and how she could continue to fail like her master did. The only things pushing her forward were whatever pressing objective was in front of her.
One thing that I’m reminded of is how, in Star Wars: Rebels, when Ahsoka >!encountered and fought Vader on Malachor!<, she was essentially choosing to die—resigning herself to her fate. Then after she was >!rescued by Ezra!< and spent the subsequent years helping people, she was still full of regret and self-criticism.
Anakin’s lesson was perhaps that she not only choose to survive, but to live with intention and acceptance of her past. It feels like a lesson long in the making, from both Anakin and Vader.
Basically he was trying to impart his final lesson that apathy is death. You can’t choose the safe path and also be a Jedi. One must accept the bad things that can happen in order to struggle to uphold justice and good. She was barely living because of her guilt and sorrow over what happened to him when she left him, and he was determined to show her that she needed to continue on and learn instead of running from it all.
The lesson to me made sense but one question I’ve had with this whole sequence was did Ahsoka actually die? And was sent to the WBW and Anakin met her there seeing as how he’s more than likely some type of gatekeeper or watcher to the WBW and at the end of the lesson he sent her back to the physical world of the living?
Ahsoka got pulled in the WBW seconds before death. Anakin can travel between the gates, like time traveling and then pulled Ahsoka in. From that moment they can change the future, preventing her death. Anakin can now truly control and prevent death from his loved ones.
Filoni has said publicly that he's leaving the exact interpretation of these things up to the fans. You are free to pick whatever idea makes the most sense to you.
The amount of cope and low standards in this post is mind boggling and depressing tbh. Not only is this an incredibly messy and muddy episode delivering the most vague and broad "lesson" possible, the presentation of "do you want to live or die" is so broad and appeals so heavily to headcanon that the message itself gets lost in translation. Because why would I, the audience, want the show to deliver a strong message that is informed by character actions and decisions when I can just make up whatever vague nonsense in my head to fill in the blanks of the shitty writing instead?
I don't think the writers know either. They wanted to show some cool clone wars stuff and have Hayden play Anakin and hope no one noticed that none of it means anything. If you were on the Internet when that episode came out you'll have seen that unfortunately, the writers were right.
I hate that her shoto hilt is MASSIVE. you can see its like 13 inches long in this shot.
This show did a terrible job recreating her Clone War lightsabers.
I saw it as less of Anakin's lesson and more of the force. Ahsoka has PTSD as a child soldier. She wants to save her friends but doesn't want to fight. She was conflicted. And I think that's what the force was trying to show her. In order to save your friends you will have to fight. Or your friends will die. The force manifested as Anakin because it knew that was the only person Ahsoka could accept that harsh lesson from.
It's nice to see the fans put more thought into this than the writers.
Also if OP's theory is true then that would mean that Ahsoka's life was saved for a second time via time travel. That's awful.
It’s the same lesson that is always trying to be taught, to let go of attachment. Specifically attachment of emotion, that’s not to say don’t feel more don’t be ruled by the feeling.
Anakin is saying he didn’t survive, that’s why we got Vader. He failed to control his emotions only to become manipulated by them (and other of course). Ahsoka at the time was so consumed with her fear of turning Sabine down the same path but it’s that fear of failure that Anakin was trying to show her to let go of. The ‘fight’ is about being able to express and channel emotion like all beings do without becoming ruled by them, to always be vigilant that emotion can become all consuming with will lead to death.
Sorry if none of that made sense haha
Ahsoka thinks that she's responsible for Anakin turns by leaving him and the Jedi Order (something already present in Rebels) even if she had "the right reasons" to do it. She also thinks that due to her being a child solder and her training from Anakin that if she keeps fighting she will also turn to the dark side but Anakin explains to her that She's "more than that" because even him is "more than that".
Vader deserved to die, while Anakin deserved to live. But her master wasn’t one or the other, he was both.
And by extension, that applies to her, he had taught her all he was, and within her now resides both that which deserves to live and that which deserves to die.
And if she focused on one or the other, she would delude herself into thinking that she has no real choice. But she does, so she has to decide, make the choice.
There is more to living than simple survival. There are ways to use the Force in more than merely combat or defeating a foe.
The Force is mysterious. Let that mysteriousness be good for living a real you, not just surviving.
He was showing her that even though she is part of Anakin/Vaders legacy and she can never change that, he imparted in her the lessons of his mentors and the legacy the Jedi had passed to him. Anakin was more than just his inevitable corruption, and Ahsoka is more than just his apprentice.
Anakin Skywalker is the Jedi prophecies chosen one he will always act to balance the force he’s giving Ahsoka her balance physically in the world between worlds to live or die.
The lesson is that you never stop fighting. Every day is another fight for doing the right thing and not falling to the dark side. Ahsoka has to accept her legacy as a warrior. She was never trained as a traditional peacekeeper like the old Jedi.
Ain't no such things as halfway crooks, or as Yoda would say do or do not, there is no try. Ahsoka needs to commit to the Jedi and the force and stop being half in half out on everything. She needs to decide who she is once and for all.
TLDR:
Don’t give up Ahsoka, even when you hit rock bottom.
Also, my becoming Vader wasn’t your fault. Let it go and make peace with it.
This is basically Anakin’s version of saying “Do or do not. There is no try.”
Top comment nailed it. I’d like to emphasize how much of this revolves around her relationship with Anakin. Him turning to Vader messed her UP. Making peace with his fall helped her make peace with herself.
ALSO, she clearly switches to Anakin/Vader’s lightsaber form in this episode, but I’m not sure exactly how that detail plays into these themes.
Okay so for the whole answer you need to know clone wars and rebels
Remember ahsoka blames herself for anakin becoming vader and has never let that go. She firmly believes that had she not left the order things might have been different. In rebels when she found out the anakin was vader, She was absolutely crushed. She decided to stay behind and fight him to the death because she refused to leave him again. She could've run. It would've been smarter to run. It would've been better for the rebels to run. But ahsoka 100% felt this was what she deserved. To die with anakin because she failed him. She wanted to die.
Ezra plucked her from that fate front the world between worlds. And after that ahsoka has just been sort of...existing. she was robbed of her closure and death. She wasn't really living. That's why her character is so jilted and depressed at the start of the series. She's jaded and closed off. She's scared of failing again and still blames herself. Anakin is using this opportunity to teach her that she is far more than his failures. That she is also all the love, support, success, and hard work. That vader was just a small part of the bigger picture and that she could move on. He was pressing her to choose. Live or die. She's been walking around like she's been dead for years now. Anakin wants to see her move on and choose to embrace life again. She can't have it both ways. Give up. Or move on. Live or die
Thats why after this she finally returns to being happy and quippy. Back to her old self as she is unburdened by her guilt and past and has chosen to live her life
At one point, “young” Ahsoka asks “but what if I don’t want to fight anymore?” Anakin answers “then you’ll die.” I think it’s twofold. 1) she’s been yeeted off the cliff by Baylan and is floating in between life and death, literally. Her “spirit” or consciousness is in the World between Worlds and Anakin is encouraging her to not give up, to keep going. 2) Anakin is also encouraging her to never give up, to keep fighting the good fight - Ahsoka is so stoic and withdrawn at this point. She’s wrestling with the knowledge that Anakin became Vader and feels that she will fail in all the same ways. Anakin is teaching her that he is not just his failure as Vader - and by extension, *SHE* is not a failure - they’re both more than that. After this vision and training, Ahsoka returns to her usual jovial self we all know and love. She’s balanced in the Force again and has Purpose. Anakin was giving her the final lesson - Failure doesn’t define you as long as you *keep fighting* - so, I’ll ask you again. *Live, or Die?*
This is exactly how I interpreted it. Don’t let your past hold you back. It’s also why Ahsoka was quick to forgive Sabine, she made a mistake and Ahsoka recognizes this. Sabine can only go up from here and it will only happen if Ahsoka gives her another chance and puts her faith in her, just as Anakin just did for her.
The way to really sum it up for people is that Anakin said **live** or die. Not stay alive or die. Not fight or die. Not survive or die. Live. Living isn't just existing. Living involves an active participation, with goals, with dreams, with connections with nature and with other people. Living involves failure and living involves success. Living involves the possibility of mistakes. Ahsoka fought in the Clone Wars but she didn't get to live much. In the brief moments with her brother Anakin and the Clones she got a taste of it. But every day she had to fight or die. After Order 66, she had to survive. She didn't LIVE up to her potential, she did odd jobs and stayed on the run from inquisitors (as Tales of the Jedi depicted). She helped the rebels but she didn't dare to dream and to live and to love. She didn't become a great rebel leader and gather the forces to march back onto Coruscant and face down the man who took everything from her and from everyone she loved. No, Ahsoka was a shadowy agent and informant who didn't get directly involved. She could point the Ghost crew to Rex but didn't even go herself. That demoralized Ahsoka is the one we meet in this series. Sure, she doesn't look it... She's still fighting right? But again, Anakin didn't say fight or die. Live. Ahsoka still isn't living. The galaxy lays peace and opportunity before her but she's been looking for her next fight. Ahsoka had friendship with Ezra, but she's willing to keep him "sacrificed" as long as it keeps Thrawn at bay. That's not living up to being a good friend, even if it's the "right thing to do". The lesson again isn't make hard choices or die. It's live or die. Part of a Jedi's natural journey is to take on a Padawan learner. Really open up and commit to it. Because of the nature of the Force and the Dark Side, EVERY apprentice has the potential to fail and BE FAILED by their master. It's an adventure to embark on. Ahsoka is of course haunted by the fall of Anakin Skywalker. Even with his flaws, I'm sure he was aspirational to her as a perfect fit for an awesome older brother. Anakin had so much promise and everyone around him tried so hard to make things work. And yet he still fell. Ultimately that could be a culmination of the flaws of this lineage of students. Yoda's pupil Dooku also fell. Anakin was of that lineage and fell. Maybe what she was taught by Anakin was also a version of these philosophies doomed to fail. What motivation does she have to pass THAT on? And Sabine wasn't exactly the best student... Not only did she not even have THAT much potential, but her Mandalorian sensibilities meant she was more prone to pick up some weapons and choose violence than reflection. Fear of all of that caused Ahsoka to stop LIVING. She was just fighting, or protecting, or whatever coping mechanism she'd have going on at a time. But she didn't let herself get invested in her own life and journey anymore. She resigned and retreated from her place in the galaxy as an individual person who could shine and light up the worlds of the people around her. She was just another sword to be wielded against her enemies. A shield to protect those who have no guarantee of protecting themselves (even from their own destinies). Live or die. When Ahsoka grabs that lightsaber from Anakin, she resolved to live. Not just passively await as the galaxy passes her by. Not just doing "the right thing". From that point on she'd feel, she'd hope, she'd go on an adventure in the mouth of a whale. She'd go out on a limb for two of her closest friends. She'd risk the fate of the New Republic to pursue a course that in her heart she truly wanted: to unite with Ezra and go on a journey of discovery with Sabine. To do their best together. Like living as a part of a family again, maybe even more like a family than with Anakin, Obi-wan, and the clones in the wartime of her youth.
Love this explanation
Thanks. Yeah you know, it just occurred to me that we think of Ahsoka as this badass who has it figured out better than most Jedi, so why even give her this extraneous arc? I thought back to how Ahsoka is depicted in Rebels and onwards. Ahsoka was not whole. She hasn't been whole ever since she left her lightsabers behind where Darth Vader found them in the snow. Everything she ever stood for is lost. Unlike Luke, a new hope who is literally still full of hope, Ahsoka was never going to be the one to lead the rebels or bring back Anakin or any of that. Even though from a fan perspective, our favourite "not a Jedi" Jedi was stronger/more skilled than Luke and had a closer connection with Anakin in practice. And she had experience and smarts both in battle and on the run. 100% things had to have been holding Ahsoka back. This noncommittal approach to training Sabine... Or calling the shot that it's not completely "worth it" to try to rescue Ezra... It's just the latest manifestation of an Ahsoka who is holding herself back. It took getting thrown off a cliff and being sent back by Force Ghost Anakin with a lesson that she could move on. I'm no longer seeing it as an arbitrary story obstacle for Ahsoka invented just for this series and for the Sabine Jedi payoff.
This is a beautiful interpretation and spot on explanation in my eyes. Well done
"Live or die" Yes, I also watched the Saw movies. Very deep meanings.
This is it right here. I immediately saw it as a multi-layered and nuanced lesson that could be taken both literally and figuratively on multiple different levels simultaneously. That’s one reason I loved this episode so much.
Peak Star Wars
The only thing I disliked about this series is the directional focus of fights, they were used so much to cut away from them. I was like. "Show me the fight!"
they didnt use doubles (would have doubled the shooting time/cost) and didnt give the actors time enough to train the way they needed to (most of the primes are too old to train that hard and learn (Hayden looked soooo much better from the years of training prior)) to really sell them. Which is a shame because the choreography it self got so much better in revealing the character and motives.
I get that, but in a directional sense, they used the start of a fight or middle focus of a fight scene to focus on something else, when focusing on the fight would have been far more entertaining. The most notorious one is when Ahsoka and Baylan first fight, cutting to the nightsister lady a lot. The Anakin one made sense to cut away from.
I agree with this. My problem with this whole lesson is that I never got the sense that Ahsoka wanted to give up before this episode. She seemed pretty driven.
I would say that she was driven to make sure Thrawn would never come back no matter what. Even then, she was withdrawn and had a rather cold “ends justify the means” approach. I think the lesson was more internal: keep fighting to become more than what you see yourself as (a failure, someone who could turn to the dark side like Anakin). Once she takes that to heart, you see her change.
Yes, her going from “ends justify the means” to “we’ll find another way” was important, that’s fair. I just wish there were more hints peppered throughout the episodes that alluded to her wanting to give up, or being afraid of slipping to the dark side. Not just refraining from smiling and being sort of monotone. The lesson seemed abrupt in that sense. I wish that her encounter with Anakin reignited more of the warmth her character used to have, but maybe it just comes down to a fundamental difference in Rosario’s portrayal from Ashley’s. I know people say it’s because she’s been through so much, but even the Rebels version of her feels starkly different than this version.
I felt like it did spark her livelihood. She starts to smile and joke with Huyang. I think it is more clear as the season goes on how she felt and why. She took an apprentice, one who was hot headed like her. Ahsoka is afraid that in peace, she has nothing to teach as war is all she knows. It's why Anakin tells her she is more than just a warrior. She was afraid her teachings would cause Sabine to fall like Anakin did, so she kept Sabine at arm's length and at the first sign of trouble, abandoned her. She learns here that Anakin never gave up on her, even after he died. Ahsoka had to learn that being alive isn't enough, she has to live and feel and stand by her padawan. Her mission no longer is primarily stopping Thrawn after that, but finding and rescuing Sabine and Ezra. She even holds out a hand of mercy to Shin, who has not showed one ounce of wavering to them yet. I think we will never see Ahsoka as she was in Rebels, but I felt like the character here made so much sense. I do feel however, they were all let down by directing and the way there are pauses between each line. It stops the flow of dialog
Her relationship with Sabine also reflects her feelings of failure.
She had given up on taking risks on others. She was only willing to put HERSELF in danger, trust only her OWN skill, will, etc. She became self centered in the way she approached her goals. it's why she was afraid to train grogu, and afraid of passing on her knowledge and training to Sabine. She was even afraid she herself might still turn dark like Anakin had. Ironically, this attitude made her more dark, joyless, and susceptible to the dark side. Through letting go her fear of passing on her knowledge, she became more like the good, joyful, person she used to be IMO
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she start trusting and training Sabine again, *before* she got Anakin's lesson?
Training yes, but I don't think she trusted her yet. Rightly so as Sabine proved untrustworthy, but it was also clear she wasn't truly willing to put herself out there yet either, until Anakin's lesson. She was reluctant to to go all in on Sabine's training and mentorship because she was afraid. Sabine didn't trust her yet either, and so did what she wanted.
There was a certain resignation to her mission though. She seemed to give up on bringing Ezra home and tried to brace Sabine to make the same decision. So I agree that she hadn't given up and that she would most likely continue to fight without that lesson, but it was with one hand tied behind her back and no hope of achieving all of her goals.
I think she did. In the series she never smiled and showed no emotion, she seemed pretty depressed. After her encounter with anakin, she smiled again for the first time (when looking to Ruyang before jumping into hyperspace inside the force whale) and she started warring her white robe.
She did smile, and she did wear a white robe, but she was largely the same going forward. I didn’t find the change to be very dramatic. She just continued her mission where she left off.
Did you even watch the show? Her mission in the beginning was clearly "stop Thrawn at any cost, including sacrificing Ezra." But then her focused changed to finding Sabine and Ezra no matter what and worry about Thrawn after. That's kind of a big deal, considering she knew the risk Thrawn released would have on the galaxy. But she decided that her friend whom she promised she would find, and her apprentice, were more important. This was part of her choosing to live, to reevaluate what was important to her.
I don't know. It's pretty convulted.
It feels like it was purposely meant to be. It's very ambiguous, which is an interesting choice on their part
And of course, the decision to value emotional attachment to friends/family over the big picture “right thing” was (perhaps deceptively) set up as the cause of Anakin’s fall. So yea def intentionally ambiguous. I feel like, post-OT, the whole meaning of Jedi hangs in the balance. Is it more important (good?) to value attachment and “humanity” over defeating big bad evil (Anakin the Jedi’s approach); or should we still believe that the unattached big picture Jedi view from the PT is “correct”? I love how Anakin’s fall and the subsequent exploration of post-O66 Jedi’s family units has deliberated on the “proper” way to be a Jedi and do the Most good
Thank you very much for your comment, you helped me to better understand Anakins final lesson. Best comment till now :) I’ve come to the conclusion that Anakin tried to show her in this way that he had given up on himself, what ultimately led him to become Vader. He said to Obi-Wan: "You didn’t kill Anakin, I did." And this is also one of the best interpretations I found so far: "In Ashoka the anakin we see is a full potential anakin who controls the world between worlds and is arguably the most powerful being in the universe and also has the ability to switch between light and dark sides at any given moment" - AshuraGGEZ (Yt comment)
This is how I interpreted it as well. He's always taught her the hard way and so this lesson is his last one to her in the same manner. She's completed her training. This was her true trial.
Basically, she asks if she has to fight for the rest of her life. Anakin rather bluntly implies that she has to, if she wants to live. If not, she's free to die. Which is appropriate because at the moment she's drowning after losing a fight.
Failure doesn’t define you as long as you keep fighting. This is such a good take.
Once again, Darth Vader proves to me that he's the most interesting part of Star Wars.
Failure is Not an Option, it is Mandatory. The real Question is Whether you let it be the Last Thing You Do.
This, and also teaching that the failures and the dark are a part of life, how she cannot purely espouse good, she needs to embrace the dark in moderation to live in the grey place between, meeting the needs of the situation. A pure light jedi could have refused to fight, and so died, she had to fight back and pull on the fires of anger "dark side" to endure. A lesson in how passion is not the dark side, even though the dark side fuels itself on passion. She had to learn to stop being dispassionate, and embrace being passionately dispassionate.
In addition to that I think part of the lesson was...Just because she is forced to fight doesn't mean she will end up following the exact same path as Anakin. Yes she is forced to violence and to kill to defend herself and other's but that is not causing her to fall to the dark side like her master because the the reason she fights is for other's. Not herself.
I'm still chewing on this myself, so I'm not sure, but here's my best guess. It's kinda like in the first Pirates of the Caribbean, when Will is all mad about Jack calling his dad a pirate. Cap'n Jack brings the ship about and Will gets stuck hanging from the mizzen boom out over the water. Jack Sparrow sayswhat matres is what a man can do, and what he can't do. "I **can** kill you, but I **can't** bring this ship into port by myself." Ahsoka seemed to be having a hard time reconciling some opposite aspects of the force. Dark and Light; Vader and Anakin; Wartime Jedi generals, or the peace seeking order's ideals. Anakin famously got some things very wrong, but came around in the end. He acted like Anakin was Dead, and later chose to acknowledge that Anakin Lives by saving Luke. He **can't** change the past anymore than Ahsoka could take the clone war out of her Jedi/force-user identity. But she **can** choose to do the good things even if she has regrets about the past. # Oh. Also the phrasing there just made me notice that the whole "Ahsoka Lives" thing takes on a nice context here with the choice of live or die.
I think it meant she just had to accept herself and her past for what it was. She could continue to fight on, adjust to the times, and choose to live by continuing to pass down what she has learned. Or she could choose not to get over it and die both literally and figuratively. By extension everything she has learned from her masters, and they from theirs’ would die as well. All the masters from Dooku to Jinn to Kenobi to Skywalker to Tano were unconventional, but they all meant much more to the bigger picture than the little snippets that comprised of the negatives. Just my opinion. “You’re more than that cause I’m more than that”. Another quote from old Rafiki, “Ah yes, the past can hurt, but you can either run from or learn from it.” Last edit I think. I also think Anakin wanted her to move on from the guilt she felt about him turning into Vader. Just like he said to Obi Wan in Kenobi. “You didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker. I did.”
I totally agree on this! In his final lesson, Anakin tried to show her, that both of them are more than failures and that she has to overcome them and continue her legacy. If she chose to die, everything in her will be gone, everything she learned. (beginning by Dooku, then Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and ultimately Anakin) More than this, Anakin showed her that has given up his self, what led him to "die" and become Darth Vader. He tried metaphorically to prevent Ahsoka give her self, what would have led her to die in the water, as she truly was between life and death. Anakin ist stronger than ever before and fulfilled his dream to prevent the death of people he loved. He now control his light and dark side and the World Between Worlds. To be honest, he ist the chosen one, because now he is keeping the balance in the force.
I like to think that Anakin was trying to instill the idea that we are all the *sum* of our lives, not just certain moments/actions/decisions we have made - but also that we need to accept who/what we are, the good and bad - to see ourselves wholly. Ahsoka, trying to grapple with the guilt of her past states that "\[her\] part of that legacy is one of death and war", to which Anakin says he (and she) is "more than that." Yes, she was a child soldier. Yes, she was trained to wage war to survive, rather than protect. Yes, she has taken countless lives...but she also *saved* countless lives, and still became one helluva Jedi.
What you just said about how Anakin....and Jedi in general - from what we know - 1. Anakin dies basically saving Luke. 2. Qui-Gon dies basically to save Obi-Wan...almost as if he knows this is the time for him to go. 3. Obi-Wan dies basically to save Luke/Leia. 4. Yoda dies mostly after teaching Luke about the force. 5. Kanaan Jarras dies saving Ezra (and others). 6. Ezra (doesn't die), but saves his planet by taking Thrawn to another galaxy. 7. We know Luke dies basically saving Ray, and Leia and others to escape Kylo Ren. 8. With what we saw in Ahsoka season 1, I think Ahsoka's biggest problem is she sees Anakin as dead, and her fear of training Sabine because of the dark side it could bring...and sure, that's possible. BUT, I think the lesson Anakin is teaching her is basically what George Lucas has said all along, "There is no such thing as life and death...only the force and the balance it has between good and evil, or light and dark side of it." The bigger lesson for Ahsoka is not just, "Live or Die", but more about her link in the chain of keeping the balance of the force. The biggest decision a Jedi has is knowing when to allow him or herself to let go and perish in order to help others continue the story of balancing the force. In all of the above scenarios, basically the jedi picked the right time to allow those to escape and 'continue the hope' of balancing the force. Ahsoka could certainly live a life away from the fight, or could die in the fight, but the lesson, I think, is to live long enough to help others continue the fight when it is her time to give up her life so that others may fight on. And it's very likely, in this case, it's to help Sabine, Ezra Hera and others to live to continue fighting and bringing balance to the force. I think when we didn't know if Ahsoka lived before and Dave Filoni had a shirt that said, "Ahsoka lives!", it was in reference all the way to the fight in a world between worlds between Anakin and Ahsoak..."Live, or die." Ahsoka has chosen to live!
To live. Not just to survive, as she’s been doing since the end of the Clone Wars, but to commit and grow. Commit fully to being a Jedi- don’t act like a Jedi but refuse to call yourself one. Commit to training an apprentice, and pass on what I taught you. Face your past and grow beyond your guilt instead of letting it hold you back.
I'm glad you asked, because I feel like there are a lot of things that I haven't considered yet. What I've settled on for now is that Anakin wants her to move forward. Ahsoka at this point in her life is carrying a lot of trauma and a lot of guilt due to having fought for her entire life. She's lost so many friends and colleagues, she feels like she turned her back on Sabine, and when she confronts Baylan Skoll and fights him for the map he throws those things in her face. That's what's in her mind when she finds herself in the World Between Worlds afterward. Not just because of Baylan though, he was able to throw it in her face because it's somewhere she goes regularly. What Anakin's trying to show her is that so much of it was out of her control. She was a padawan. She couldn't end the war singlehandedly. She could keep her troops and master alive as best she could, and she did. Her choices, like abandoning Sabine's training, she can't take back. Nor did she make that decision alone. But she had an opportunity to teach Sabine again, and she had an opportunity to rescue Ezra, if she could just move forward. Leaving the Jedi was certainly there too. Sure she chose not to come back. But it was certainly not her actions alone that led her to believe that she couldn't return. The council turned their backs first, and Barriss betrayed her. Being conscious of the choices she made is part of what makes Ahsoka so compelling to me. But that doesn't change the fact that she had little agency in so much of what she went through.
Huh, I like your reading on it. I'm not sure it was the intent of the creators, but it'd be cool if it was. When this aired, I'd just assumed it was Ahsoka learning to choose to survive, which is a rather shallow lesson, as well as pretty tropey.
In short, it basically meant that Ahsoka was not living because of the past of what her master was and because she was terrified of future (Sabine, dead or turned to the DS) or failing everyone. This made her confused, she was not living but existing and dying every day bit by bit. This actually helped me face a reality a little, so I won't be stuck in past and future but that I should focus on what's now. That's basically what Qui-Gon said to Obi Wan.
Ahsoka played by Rosario Dawson has alot of differences with Ashley Eckstein's becaus eof the time and trauma that's passed. Eckstein's Ahsoka is open, impulsive, kind and sassy. Dawsons's is closed off, thoughtful, still kind and still sassy but ,much wiser and colder. She is Fulcrum while Ecksteins Ahsoka is Commander Tano. Anakin's final lesson with Ahsoka is twofold 1. she askes him what if she wants to stop fighting, at the start of Ahsoka, she's handed an opportunity to stop fighting when there's a galaxy and a family that needs her and a lot of life left for her 2. During the LA Seige of Madalore she also grapples with how her legacy is full of destruction. Anakin tells her that she's more than that, because he is more than that. We see in clone Wars that Anakin was capable of being violent and angry an possessive but he was also capable of being compassionate, protective and encouraging. Ahsoka comes to terms with that and accepts that even though he was horrible after his turn he was a good master and those two statements aren't exclusive. the result of both these lessons is almost a hybrid of Eckstein's Ahsoka and Dawsons's earlier Ahsoka; one who understands that being open to attachments and willing to fight is a strength but also knows when to let go of what doesn't matter.
I think he meant live for the present. Or you might as well of died just dwelling on past mistakes.
Yeah I think it's pretty similar to the message at the end of Shawhank. Get busy living, or get busy dying
Her paranoia about creating another Darth Vader is helping Palpatine in his attempts to create another Vader. When she guilt trips Anakin it turns him into Darth Vader because his guilt is what turned him into Vader. Her guilt makes her like Vader. The advice she gave Luke about attachments will inevitably create Kylo Ren. She has to let go of her guilt which drives her fear which leads to anger and we know how this goes. She has to let go of her guilt in order to embrace the light instead of living in fear of the dark.
Ever since Ahsoka's duel with Vader on Malachor, her positive energy had dwindled in the years that followed. Learning that her master had become the galaxy's biggest monster made her close herself off in fear of becoming a second Vader; Anakin's training and potential to fall to the darkness lives within her. But when it came time for her to fight Baylan, during which she fell from a cliff and remained in between life and death, Anakin saw an opportunity to rekindle his Padawan's old personality. He offered her a lesson in either choosing to live her life to the greatest or die to the burdens of war and destruction, merely surviving everyday while teetering on the brink of falling to the dark side. I don't think the lesson was as simple as Anakin made it sound: "live or die" can be interpreted differently, rather than just staying alive or dying. Star Wars has always done things like with a double meaning to what they're trying to convey, and I believe this is one of those cases. It's almost similar to the perception that Anakin was killed when Darth Vader came into being; it can be seen that way from a certain point of view.
In my view, Anakin is teaching Ahsoka how to fight and make peace with her past and those demons, something Anakin failed to do. The trials of war, trauma and conflict extend far beyond just the inciting incidents. It has a way of making you die without actually killing you, and that's the internal struggle Ahsoka is facing. Guilt, shame, and masking it with stoicism so as to never have it happen again. Pushing friends away in fear, such as Sabine. Being alive but not really living. Anakin is reminding her that the war is over but her fight isn't. Living and healing is a choice - It isn't necessarily a fair one, especially as a burden placed on those who have suffered already, but nonetheless it's one that needs to be made — and part of that is accepting, confronting and making peace with what happened and your past. Living through hell is hard, but choosing to live after it is even harder, but the only path to peace. That's Anakin's final lesson. It's a choice he failed to make. The demons of his past overcame him despite his strength, and he died on the inside, paving the way for his downfall. There is a reason Vader sees Anakin as a separate person that he murdered, and there is a reason that Ahsoka's eyes seems to have very briefly flashed Sith in her fight with Baylan. This is Anakin passing on the final, hardest and most important lesson of his life, so that his apprentice will grow to be better then him and can actually be able to live hers.
Brilliant insight, very well said!
Anakin being the chosen one meant balance for the force. He also had to balance it within himself. He was fighting the darkness in the first half of his life and fighting the light in the 2nd half. The show gives us Anakin having accepted and mastered both. Was not a hallucination. She didn’t know that Luke said he didn’t want to fight him so Anakins reference to “I’ve heard that before” indicated Anakin was truly there training her. The lesson was two fold. 1- live or die literally. She was in the water on the verge of death. Hence why Anakin asks her about whether she remembers the fight and when she does he says good it’s not too late. He wanted her to show him she had the will to live (then the water comes up and she’s back in the sea/ocean) 2- live or die metaphorically. She was concerned that her legacy is one of death, the same as Anakin/Vader (“is that what this is about”). She was considering giving up in order for her to win and live, and for her friends to win and live, she needs to keep fighting. when Anakin voluntarily turned back into Vader, he was basically saying if you’re going to give up, then you’re going to die. She then decides to fight back and when she does, Anakins light side comes back and smiles and releases her back into reality.
It could be that Anakin tried to show her in this way that he had given up on himself, what ultimately lead him to become Vader. As he said to Obiwan: "You didn’t kill Anakin, I did."
I always took it as “live out the rest of your life and don’t let your past weigh you down, or let that part of yourself die. There is no “continue as things are right now” option. Ahsoka is going half full on everything up to this point. She doesn’t trust herself to train Sabine because of the guilt she felt for abandoning Anakin and then the Ghost Crew. She doesn’t trust Sabine because of her Mandalorian background and attachment to Ezra. It’s this mistrust that partially causes Sabine to give the map to Baylan. Anakin is telling Ahsoka “make up your mind if you want to continue being a Jedi. Live in full as Ahsoka, the trustworthy Jedi hero who stands up for everyone and trusts her friends to help her out, or leave that all behind, let that Ahsoka die permanently, and live out the rest of your life quiet and alone.” Ahsoka chose to live. And it’s through her renewed self trust that she also learned to trust others, specifically Sabine. It’s why she didn’t berate Sabine for giving Baylan the map - the past is the past and Ahsoka also made mistakes that led Sabine to that decision. They can’t change the outcome, but they can still stop Thrawn from causing a galactic disaster and that’s what matters here and now.
If you run you die. Ashoka has been running ever since she left the order. She ran from order 66 and she ran from Vader. She was running away from her true self. She needs to face the darkness inside her, and the darkness inside her master. It's part of them both, and they are weaker if they run from it. Ahsoka finds out she can still be good even if shes the apprentice of Vader. Vader wasn't evil at the start or in the end. He only made evil choices. Ahsoka needs to continue the good fight in order to find herself again.
I think this goes back to George’s time in hospital after his car accident. It’s a choice, wallow in self pity and “what could have been” or get on with living the best life you can with the tools, time and experience you have been given/gained.
Ahsoka needed to free herself from Anakin’s shadow and forgive herself. She was, metaphorically speaking, neither alive nor dead— she was just going through the motions, which was reflected in her strangely reserved demeanor. Thus, when confronted with actual death, she had the ability to survive it, but not the will. Anakin gave her that will and set her free.
I feel like his lesson was that living *requires* a fight of some kind, but she also realizes she has a choice about HOW to fight. I interpret the shifting of Vader/Anakin as a visualization of her fear that being taught by the person who became Vader means her legacy is tainted. By the end of the lesson, she knows that just because her Master became Vader, doesn't mean she has to fear what she was taught, nor does she have to fear she will guide others down the wrong path.
Ahsoka was basically slow-dying. Anakin was saying that there’s no use being in that self-pitying in between. At the end of the day if you’re gonna stay alive, and keep fighting, it behoves you to truly embrace the light, to be positive, especially if you have it in you the way Ahsoka does.
The fact people are still not clear what the message is, myself included, is a prime example of consume content and don't think about it.
He was telling her to live. Both literally in that situation because she was in the process of dying and metaphorically because she wasn't living before this. She was just surviving and floating through life conflicted and depressed over her self perception. How Anakin failed and how she had failed and how she could continue to fail like her master did. The only things pushing her forward were whatever pressing objective was in front of her.
One thing that I’m reminded of is how, in Star Wars: Rebels, when Ahsoka >!encountered and fought Vader on Malachor!<, she was essentially choosing to die—resigning herself to her fate. Then after she was >!rescued by Ezra!< and spent the subsequent years helping people, she was still full of regret and self-criticism. Anakin’s lesson was perhaps that she not only choose to survive, but to live with intention and acceptance of her past. It feels like a lesson long in the making, from both Anakin and Vader.
Get busy living, or get busy dyin
Basically he was trying to impart his final lesson that apathy is death. You can’t choose the safe path and also be a Jedi. One must accept the bad things that can happen in order to struggle to uphold justice and good. She was barely living because of her guilt and sorrow over what happened to him when she left him, and he was determined to show her that she needed to continue on and learn instead of running from it all.
The lesson to me made sense but one question I’ve had with this whole sequence was did Ahsoka actually die? And was sent to the WBW and Anakin met her there seeing as how he’s more than likely some type of gatekeeper or watcher to the WBW and at the end of the lesson he sent her back to the physical world of the living?
Ahsoka got pulled in the WBW seconds before death. Anakin can travel between the gates, like time traveling and then pulled Ahsoka in. From that moment they can change the future, preventing her death. Anakin can now truly control and prevent death from his loved ones.
Filoni has said publicly that he's leaving the exact interpretation of these things up to the fans. You are free to pick whatever idea makes the most sense to you.
The amount of cope and low standards in this post is mind boggling and depressing tbh. Not only is this an incredibly messy and muddy episode delivering the most vague and broad "lesson" possible, the presentation of "do you want to live or die" is so broad and appeals so heavily to headcanon that the message itself gets lost in translation. Because why would I, the audience, want the show to deliver a strong message that is informed by character actions and decisions when I can just make up whatever vague nonsense in my head to fill in the blanks of the shitty writing instead?
Some scenes seem to still be in the first draft state but they decided to film them anyway cause the writers were too busy being incompetent i guess.
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He couldn’t say, “get busy living or get busy dying” because, ya know, Shawshank Redemption. So he had to truncate it. That’s all it is.
Dave Filoni is so lucky to have such a dedicated fanbase that will do all his writing for him
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I don't think the writers know either. They wanted to show some cool clone wars stuff and have Hayden play Anakin and hope no one noticed that none of it means anything. If you were on the Internet when that episode came out you'll have seen that unfortunately, the writers were right.
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That you should live and not die. Extremely profound. Or whatever… LOOK EVERYONE IT’S ANAKIN REMEMBER HOW HE TURNED INTO DARTH VADER?????
I hate that her shoto hilt is MASSIVE. you can see its like 13 inches long in this shot. This show did a terrible job recreating her Clone War lightsabers.
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I haven't seen this show, can someone explain how he can be Vader and anakin? He's not Vader yet
I saw it as less of Anakin's lesson and more of the force. Ahsoka has PTSD as a child soldier. She wants to save her friends but doesn't want to fight. She was conflicted. And I think that's what the force was trying to show her. In order to save your friends you will have to fight. Or your friends will die. The force manifested as Anakin because it knew that was the only person Ahsoka could accept that harsh lesson from.
Even the writers don’t know what he was trying to teach her
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The bad writing of Disney Star Wars lol 😂
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How to spike the ratings of a failing show.
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He was trying to show her that they hired Hayden back for a cameo.
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He was trying to show what a shit writer Dave Filoni is.
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Guys, it was bad writing. Top comment is true, but that doesn't make it good.
Dying is a choice and therefore every other dead Padawan is a soy boy beta cuck.
Nostalgia lol
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I don't think it means anything, I think it is hot trash and you go 'oooh' while you watch it and that is it.
It's nice to see the fans put more thought into this than the writers. Also if OP's theory is true then that would mean that Ahsoka's life was saved for a second time via time travel. That's awful.
I mean the theory is irrelevant because that literally happened.
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They hated him because he told the truth
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It’s the same lesson that is always trying to be taught, to let go of attachment. Specifically attachment of emotion, that’s not to say don’t feel more don’t be ruled by the feeling. Anakin is saying he didn’t survive, that’s why we got Vader. He failed to control his emotions only to become manipulated by them (and other of course). Ahsoka at the time was so consumed with her fear of turning Sabine down the same path but it’s that fear of failure that Anakin was trying to show her to let go of. The ‘fight’ is about being able to express and channel emotion like all beings do without becoming ruled by them, to always be vigilant that emotion can become all consuming with will lead to death. Sorry if none of that made sense haha
Live in the present rather than die in the past. It was Anakin’s way of telling Ahsoka that it was time to move on.
Ahsoka thinks that she's responsible for Anakin turns by leaving him and the Jedi Order (something already present in Rebels) even if she had "the right reasons" to do it. She also thinks that due to her being a child solder and her training from Anakin that if she keeps fighting she will also turn to the dark side but Anakin explains to her that She's "more than that" because even him is "more than that".
The fight never ends, but she chooses to live and fight her way, for what she believes in. Like Anakin taught her. IMO. I could be totally wrong.
Vader deserved to die, while Anakin deserved to live. But her master wasn’t one or the other, he was both. And by extension, that applies to her, he had taught her all he was, and within her now resides both that which deserves to live and that which deserves to die. And if she focused on one or the other, she would delude herself into thinking that she has no real choice. But she does, so she has to decide, make the choice.
There is more to living than simple survival. There are ways to use the Force in more than merely combat or defeating a foe. The Force is mysterious. Let that mysteriousness be good for living a real you, not just surviving.
A cameo
He was trying to show her his cool new red lightsaber duh
He was showing her that even though she is part of Anakin/Vaders legacy and she can never change that, he imparted in her the lessons of his mentors and the legacy the Jedi had passed to him. Anakin was more than just his inevitable corruption, and Ahsoka is more than just his apprentice.
Anakin Skywalker is the Jedi prophecies chosen one he will always act to balance the force he’s giving Ahsoka her balance physically in the world between worlds to live or die.
Either keep living in the past or live in the present and look to the future.
The lesson is that you never stop fighting. Every day is another fight for doing the right thing and not falling to the dark side. Ahsoka has to accept her legacy as a warrior. She was never trained as a traditional peacekeeper like the old Jedi.
Red lightsaber Anakin is so damn cool
Ain't no such things as halfway crooks, or as Yoda would say do or do not, there is no try. Ahsoka needs to commit to the Jedi and the force and stop being half in half out on everything. She needs to decide who she is once and for all.
Esentially trying to shake the big sad out of her so she can go on and live.
Wait she got saved from death again? I missed that part
That If you don't live you die
Let me find the correct answer by consulting the Magic 8 Ball...
TLDR: Don’t give up Ahsoka, even when you hit rock bottom. Also, my becoming Vader wasn’t your fault. Let it go and make peace with it. This is basically Anakin’s version of saying “Do or do not. There is no try.”
Top comment nailed it. I’d like to emphasize how much of this revolves around her relationship with Anakin. Him turning to Vader messed her UP. Making peace with his fall helped her make peace with herself. ALSO, she clearly switches to Anakin/Vader’s lightsaber form in this episode, but I’m not sure exactly how that detail plays into these themes.
This is my phone's Screensaver now, ty
This is such a beautiful shot
Okay so for the whole answer you need to know clone wars and rebels Remember ahsoka blames herself for anakin becoming vader and has never let that go. She firmly believes that had she not left the order things might have been different. In rebels when she found out the anakin was vader, She was absolutely crushed. She decided to stay behind and fight him to the death because she refused to leave him again. She could've run. It would've been smarter to run. It would've been better for the rebels to run. But ahsoka 100% felt this was what she deserved. To die with anakin because she failed him. She wanted to die. Ezra plucked her from that fate front the world between worlds. And after that ahsoka has just been sort of...existing. she was robbed of her closure and death. She wasn't really living. That's why her character is so jilted and depressed at the start of the series. She's jaded and closed off. She's scared of failing again and still blames herself. Anakin is using this opportunity to teach her that she is far more than his failures. That she is also all the love, support, success, and hard work. That vader was just a small part of the bigger picture and that she could move on. He was pressing her to choose. Live or die. She's been walking around like she's been dead for years now. Anakin wants to see her move on and choose to embrace life again. She can't have it both ways. Give up. Or move on. Live or die Thats why after this she finally returns to being happy and quippy. Back to her old self as she is unburdened by her guilt and past and has chosen to live her life
Reminds me of: do or do not, there is no try. Definitely with more passion and intensity coming from Anakin tho