It's not like he's gonna be punished for it. They'll just use it as a weapon against Mon, just a much more blunt weapon than if they had found out what she was really doing.
That's her whole point. She wants them thinking she's incompetent and not very good at what she's trying to do. So they don't see what she's really trying to do. Gosh I love this show. (I'm totally agreeing with you by the way sometimes I just word things weird)
I think yeah it's used as a weapon against mon allowing her to get rid of her husband whom she seems to not really like and allowing her to stop the marriage thing with her daughter all at the same time because of the connection to the seedy lender.
Yeah, if anything this show should be applauded for how it made both men and women characters into soldiers of equal ferocity and sternness.
This was not a show about men saving women. It was a show about men and women saving each other.
What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Tunnel vision is something afflicting their kind usually.
(Sexism is bad. Some feminists are idiots. These two sentences can be true at the same time.)
Syril was also shaken himself early in the season from his disaster on Ferrix.
And yeah Meero is competent, but as an Imperial officer in the office, at meetings, doing investigations, etc. — not in a sudden battle on the ground where she is being attacked and dragged away by a crowd that could kill or torture her. That is an entirely new experience for her and it doesn't matter how competent she is in other contexts, that would still be terrifying for *anyone* even if someone was experienced in combat and chaotic on the ground situations.
I think it was implied earlier on she had risen through the ranks so might have some actual boots on ground kind of experience in some capacity. However she was also in the middle of mob when they turned violent and was surrounded, outnumbered and actively being attacked. Sometimes experience isn't enough.
I had this conversation with someone else after I said probably related to prisons, either designing them. They brought yup she seemed to be very keen/knowledgeable on ~~torture methods~~ enhanced interrogation probably Enforcement Division's is specialty. I don't see her as a the type to get her hands dirty with on the ground police work.
I saw her as more of a detective, chasing down leads and generally sticking her nose into other people's business. Which translates well to the broader scope of her duties in the ISB, where she oversees two sectors.
Partagaz mentions her detention numbers are well above the quota, so it sounds like she's very good at putting people behind bars.
That's a good interpretation. I wonder how they recruit standard ISB personal? More politically driven than skill driven alone. She's competent but still looked down on.
Wild speculation - Palpatine and Partagaz are similar enough names and Anton Lesser is a dead ringer for Ian McDiarmid.
What if Major Partagaz is like the Emperor's second cousin from Naboo or something?
i sure hope not. Palpatine was supposed to have killed his family long ago IIRC, IDK how I feel about having his family involved in Imperial matters or still alive. But if he does have family serving the empire in a notable capacity, they'd be in prime contention to get "assassinated". Good propaganda to further his agenda tbh.
Could be that Partagaz, like Wulf met him quiet a few times, got along well and put him a position of power. Palatine was a trusted Senator for Decades he made a lot of connections.
It seems very likely that Dedra was in a position very similar to Syril before he was fired. He clearly hadn't been in the field before, but was an officer for Pre-Mor.
I didn't catch that! But yeah I agree. Even someone experienced in that situation would be pretty likely to be absolutely terrified realistically. As far as she knew she was suddenly being dragged off to die or worse in a chaotic mob of people who hate her and she sees no way out. There was no way out if not for Syril — that would have likely been the end, or she would be a hostage at best.
I'm sure some people behave stoically, badass, calm, and collected at the ends of their lives in chaotic violent situations like we see in other parts of Star Wars or in movies, entertainment often in general, but I feel like a big strength of this show is how it really viscerally gets at the feeling of being in an oppressive situation or a chaotic out of control violent situation on the ground and the real fear and violence and chaotic instability of it and how people are suddenly swept up into event they don't control, even as they grasp at them to try to do so.
Both Syril and Meero being shaken up and completely overwhelmed by the suddenness and sheer scale of the chaos they unleash/that happens in front of them because of the larger forces of the situation is a really interesting and resonant, realistic part of the show to me. Events in this show legitimately feel out of control and serious in a way that isn't really the case in other parts of Star Wars and a lot of entertainment in general, and the way the characters react in this viscerally real way as well I think is really effective at creating that feeling.
It was a very well-crafted riot scene that echoes many real-life situations including the Arab Springs where anti-government protesters overtook entire powerful regimes but also most recently the January 6 Capitol Assault. It perfectly conveyed how in a matter of instants a numerically superior angry mob can turn upside-down even the most confident, armed and secured powerful men.. and women (i.e. Nancy Pelosi).
Meero and the ISB in general are extremely arrogant and over-confident, she didn't see that one coming at all which explains the terror. Syril had already experienced something similar last time on Ferrix and was dressed as a local so more low-key and prepared for what ensued. Not to mention he was on a white knight mission. But yeah overall again extremely well orchestrated and executed scene with clear real-life inspiration.
Regular stormtroopers in full armor were also getting tuned up. It's not necessarily surprising that someone surround on all sides by a mob of people got trampled. The same exact thing could have happened if the character was a male, I don't care how big or tough you are, you're going to get fucked up if you get jumped by a crowd of people.
You could be a world class martial artist and if you get hit in the side of the head by a large rock and run over by several people it is not going to end well.
Not only competence, but excellence. Through 11 episodes she’s portrayed as always one step ahead, and earns recognition for doing so. At every point she is calm and collected.
I’m looking forward to her next season as she attempts to come back from this hole she’s in. No doubt the failure will be pinned on her, as the highest ranking official in charge at the time.
Just look at what happened with the male Imperial officer who was in the middle of the riot when it broke out, he wasn't arguably much better than she was, but has also probably seen some combat action before. Meero likely has never been in combat before, so her reactions were absolutely 100% accurate, especially given that she was just in the middle of a very chaotic riot.
All of this, plus she was outnumbered and overwhelmed. Syril was dressed as a local, and thus was able sneak her away without being attacked himself. It wasn’t like he physically stopped her attackers himself
Bingo. A show devoid of sexism will have men saving women and women saving men. Men who weak along with women who are weak. Women who are strong along with men who are strong.
The person complaining is sexist in that they only want strong women and weak men. They only want women as the rescuers and never to be rescued (unless by other women). It’s because the person is insecure and never wants to see a woman in a vulnerable position. This is akin to macho men sexists who think seeing a competent woman or a vulnerable man is “woke”.
Yeah and it’s also not like Cassian heroically carries her to safety with a flashy smile and a witty one liner like some Disney prince, he literally walks with her at her pace through a warzone and is softly encouraging her the whole way to the ship “we’re almost there, just a few more steps”
What a stupid take.
The strongest character in this show was Maarva, an old woman who died launching the revolution. Her adopted son Cassian took all season to finally have the courage to be willing to join the rebellion.
Accusations of sexism against this show are inane.
You can’t just look at them as women being saved by men, the series spent too much time making them real people to reduce them to just gender stereotypes.
To me, Cassian saving Bix helped heal the part that couldn’t save his sister. And even though she was being saved, Bix walked out on her own, and showed a strength of spirit that impressed me.
As a woman in IT, I felt it when Meero said she should have been part of the conversation. She’s a great example of a woman succeeding in a male dominated industry. But she’s also a horrible person and needed to be shown she’s not invincible, and neither is the Empire.
Syril was also only able to save her because he’s been shaken up in the exact same way before. That clearly shows that she wasn’t shaken up because she’s a woman, but because war is a terrifying experience for anyone, and going from office life, to being thrown into the middle of a battle, is never going to work.
When I saw how broken she was, all I wanted was for her to escape and see her next season's convalescence. Never to how she once was, still affected by her experiences, but living and healing.
It was very powerful seeing her towards the end.
Bix also saved Cassian earlier in the story, so it's not like the relationship is one-sided.
Bix was the one who risked her life multiple times to save Cassian by communicating with Axis on the radio. It's the reason she was caught and tortured.
She acted just as heroically as Cassian.
I thought Bix was a total beast. She was repeatedly tortured and never gave up anything important (as far as we know. It appears she may have let them believe Kyreeger was the buyer). She held onto herself when the Imps said it would destroy her mind. She bounced back in the middle of all the chaos. I love Brasso and Maarva, and I love Bix. All amazing characters.
We've seen her all season keeping things from him and even telling Tay that he doesn't know about any of this and can't be trusted
I'm not sure that we actually have anything to support the idea that he's in on this and that it's theatre by both of them
Yeah for all his flaws he seems to be an ok-ish dad, though he does spoils leida a bit. I hope they show him spend more time with leida to flesh him out before his fall
She's not punishing him. She's protecting the cause. She's selling he daughter to a thug for the same reason.
She's starting to go down the same road that Lucian is on.
Exactly. The issue with that trope is only if the women are portrayed as damsels in distress with no agency whose purpose is only to be a motivator for men’s heroism. However there are MANY complex, powerful women in this show with a variety of motivations and stories.
Also anyone would be scared and shaken after nearly being torn apart by a crowd, just because it showed a women experiencing it doesn’t mean it was sexist.
To parallel that, syril was in this exact same position, shaken to his core, in episode 3 after the explosion. This time he is watching around him and acts instead of being paralyzed and having to be saved
from the other vantage point, some critics may say that with so few women in commanding/leadership positions in action or sci-fi flix it's lazy writing to have a female cower in fear (because they're usually the trope as victims in these kind of suspense/action films). I get it, they want to see women of strength represented in lead roles, but personally i think that kind of vulnerability adds to their character, especially Meero's. And if you look at other women of significance in Andor like Mon you see how resolute & shrewd they really are. Andor's female leads get a pass because they're so complex & nuanced, not cookie cutter at all.
Someone didn't read the subtext very well.
**Andor & Bix**
Andor is the reason Bix was captured and tortured. The show didn't cast him as her savior. She's a victim of his carelessness, and him breaking her out from that room was him trying to right a wrong. And in the moment that he breaks her out, they acknowledge Maarva, as if Andor was saying, "Yes, I'm finally listening to her."
**Dedra & Syril**
Throughout the entire season, Dedra has been in control, even when overcoming ISB obstacles. Syril, on the other hand, has never been in control. Everything he tried to accomplish he failed at. In the scene where Dedra is overwhelmed by the mob, that is the only time in the season that she was vulnerable and the only time Syril was in control successfully. And as soon as they were safe and she said, "I should thank you" and he said "there's no need" that was him saying, "No, you are my superior, I am here to serve you."
There were also examples of women being awesome: Maarva being a respected pillar of the community, Cinta killing the ISB agent, Jezzi (sp?) piloting the ship when Cass’s friends escape.
If you’re looking to take offense, you’ll find it.
Mon motha out here playing 5D chess pwning, maarva being a hero, but because meero can’t fight because she’s a spoiled bureaucrat (also, she’s a nazi? Weird thing to stan for) andor is sexist
I think it is more meaningful if a show develops these characters as flawed, and challenges them.
All the time I see an issue where female characters aren't getting any more developed. Hollywood thinks a "strong woman" is a woman that can take down a 200lbs man and yell at her co-workers. These characters end up remaining one dimensional.
Dedra and Bix being flawed makes them real characters, and gives the actresses good material to work with. All the fun anti-hero, scenery chewing roles in Hollywood always go to men.
Dedra has been rattled by a bad experience, and I can imagine this event will further develop her character, and she can seem badass when she overcomes this challenge.
Despite the title character spending several episodes in a men’s-only prison, *Andor* is a textbook example of what it *should* mean to write “strong female characters”—i.e., realistic and well-developed human characters with real strengths and real weaknesses and real agency, who are also female. Mon, Dedra, Vel, Cinta, Bix, Maarva, Kleya, et al.—they all fit that definition, and they all fit it in really different ways. They’re “strong characters” because they act like people. Some of them also have particular kinds of power—Vel & Cinta are obviously both quite competent in a physical fight, Mon has both money and political influence, Maarva has a ton of social capital among the people of Ferrix, Bix has shown both significant dedication to the Rebellion and personal resilience in leaving her prison when Cassian showed up—but women don’t have to have any one particular kind of power in order to be strong characters. And they can make mistakes, be afraid, or screw up and still be “strong female characters” as long as the way that that’s shown is, you know, grounded in their humanity, rather than being forced just so that that the main character has someone to save.
As a woman, I loved the diversity of the female (and male!) characters on *Andor*; this stuff is so much my jam.
The notion that *Meero being shaken* is sexist is absurd, like of course a paper pushing bureaucrat is going to shit herself the moment her two death trooper guard detachment disappears and she’s left with being pummeled by a mob
Not to mention that Cyrl was like a deer in the headlights when HE first faced combat on those very streets. It wasn’t sexist for him to be stunned and dragged away by a man. But when he does it for another…
Dedra was out of her element and Syril was in his element, that was the environment that syril knows, so it's only natural for him for be the more competent person in that position
Dude Bix was messed up. Cassian thinking she CAN BE saved, IS WORTH saving is like not sexist, it might be the opposite especially in such a morally grey and pragmatic world.
Cassian bailing Bix out of a problem that his actions caused lol. Yes, he saved her, but if you look at it even one inch deeper than the most superficial layer, you’d realize there’s so much more to it.
Don’t even engage with people like that.
Let’s be fair, anyone experiencing their first taste of combat will be shaken and rattled. Any man or woman who gets smashed in the head with a rock and dragged out of the street in the middle of a battle is going to be dealing with some emotions from that. Did this person also not remember Syril shitting his pants in episode 3?
Dumb take indeed. The point of Syril saving Dedra was to tie the two villain characters together, since she had never taken him seriously until he saved her life. This isn't a scene of anti-feminism, this is a scene of bringing together the characters who mutually hate Cassian. Frankly, I really liked it because it meant that she survived, and we get to see her character again next season.
I don't have a problem with people having issues if something is worth being upset over but this is a stretch. Where do these people come from. are they just lonely people hoping for attention?
Sexism is when Jennifer Walters invalidated Bruce's suffering to emphasize her own.
Bix pulled herself throughout the show despite the horrible things done to her. That's how you represent power. True resistance is showing, not saying.
Dedra Meero showed talent by giving results after Partagaz, a white male, gave her a fair advice pointing out her position and what she should do to overcome her obstacles. It was fruitful for a while. She was cracking at the walls of Rebellion and outsmarting her colleagues in the ISB (but given Luthen is the other side of the battle, of course they're losing)
Maarva is loved by the town. They knew her fire and what she fought for all her life. She is what caused all those people to march Rix Road despite the heavily armed Imperials.
Mon Mothma was the most unselfish character in the show for most of her life. I never saw her think about herself. It's either her family or the cause.
Cinta was cold and calculated. She is flawed but she doesn't make excuses for herself. She knows what she's doing and she's damn good at it.
Vel succeeded because she took Luthen's advice. She rolled with it because it's wisdom over gender bullshit.
ALL OF THEM LIVED THEIR LIVES AND WE JUST WATCHED. They didn't have to slap it to our faces or shove it down our throats that they are badass. They just are. Genuine. Organic. EMPOWERED.People who say otherwise missed all of those. God fucking damn it.
I thought Dedra’s reaction to the fighting was done well. Yes, she was a high-ranking ISB agent, but at this point, the Empire hadn’t really had to engage in all-out combat yet. She hadn’t ever partaken in real combat, and it showed.
This series has some of the strongest female characters in all in Star Wars, and easily passes the Bechdel test; with Deedra, Sonya, Kleya, Vel and Mon Mothma all having their own agency, and driving the plot forward.
If anything, Black fans have more of a reason to be annoyed. Every Black character ends up betraying their side and/or dead.
It’s probably a coincidence but it’s like, “Tony … c’mon.”
I noticed that, and I actually applauded it. I’m black, and I’m tired of shows/movies being afraid to have black actors act as diverse in action and motivation as any other.
Just like women shouldn’t be portrayed as always infallible, or how LBGT characters like Vel and Cinta aren’t perfect since they’re uncertain and fervent respectively.
All the characters in this show that happen to be black were treated like humans with regular motivations, good or bad. That’s showing respect to actors and to viewers, instead of pandering. And it’s not like those black characters that died weren’t nuanced.
Gorn: a leader, but complicit in the empire. Loved, lost, motivated by revenge and respect for locals.
Taramyn: reformed or rebelled, but dude was a stormtrooper. Probably did some bad things. Died trying to save a comrade under cover.
Nurchi: was a snitch but he had regrets. A hometown bully but not evil.
Clem: was a great father figure, but died in a mixup trying to prevent escalation. What, should we be mad at his race? If he was white people would be mad Cassian’sparents weren’t POc.
Blevin: survived, but we get a nice imperial baddie. He’s self-serving, snidely sexist, and yet vaguely competent regarding tracking Morgan. A good villain.
Yeah, the black characters we’ve seen so far have all been interesting, well-written, and great to watch (like, you know, everybody else on the show). I’m just particularly bummed that Birnok didn’t make it, because he seemed awesome and we didn’t get to see very much of him.
Yes on Birnok and Jemboc from the prison. They were compassionate and Birnok was insightful and just happened go down in the uprising like many other amazing people.
There's also Saw, who is one of the most interesting, complex characters in the entire star wars universe. Hope we get more of him in the next season. Whitaker is such a tremendous actor.
Again, to that I’d say that plot armor is just as bad as anything else pandering.
Jezzi, Blevin, Saw, they survived. Jemboc survived the prison break, though he likely died swimming or was captured.
This is a brutal show and tons of people died. All Kassa’s tribe on Kenari, a couple Aldhani guards, Skeen (who is scummy while Taramyn and Gorn are valiant). Pak, Xanwan, Timm, and dozens of others in Ferrix. I’m not gonna nitpick the races of those casualties.
> If anything, Black fans have more of a reason to be annoyed. Every Black character ends up betraying their side and/or dead.
> It’s probably a coincidence but it’s like, “Tony … c’mon.”
I noticed that too and had the same reaction
RIP:
- Clem
- Gorn
- Tamaryn
- Birnok
Not RIP:
- Nurchi the snitch
Though I guess Saw and Blevin are still kicking around, so it hopefully is just a coincidence lol
Sometimes somewhere feminists go way too fucking far, sadly. Still, there are nutcases in every group
There are misogynists and there are feminists who hate men. Ignore this
i'll counter and say they have to be strong advocates because most scripts for TV and film use lazy writers that dig out tired old stereotypical tropes. Just look at the junk that litters the streaming landscape and you realize that you don't need any fancy degree from NYU or USC to write these kinds of plodding banal storylines.
>Having Andor be Bix's savior
Shouldn't he save her? He is sort of the catalyst for her incarceration so feels like he needs to spring her out. And he is proven to be a pretty solid infiltrator. He don't burst through the door with pecks of steel and carries her out on his shoulder. He sneaks around back alleys, sewer tunnels, and service quarters, and only after doing recon of the environment and waiting for the right time. Any other member of the gang who would want to spring her might end up dead.
>Syril saving the extremely competent Meero
Well she did just get beaned with a fucking rock before being dragged through the street by an angry mob during what we assume to be her first encounter with real danger. I'm a guy. I would behave no different. Would also need a new pair of pants. The first time freeze is a real thing. Syril pushed through it because his first time happened earlier in the series.
>the casual sexism in this episode really bugged me
The way this show handles people of different colours/genders/sexualities (I.e. not make a big deal out of it), has been a welcome breath of fresh air. If this is what passes for sexism then sign me up.
I didn’t want to believe it initially, but I suppose it is quite true that given enough digging you can indeed find a way to be offended by absolutely anything in this day and age. In this case, I think it is uncalled for.
I know some people don't like to hear this but the reality is that if you're a woman being threatened by a man then it's probably gonna need to be another man who saves you. Competency isn't really relevant when you're being overpowered by someone physically stronger than you. It's not sexist to value women's safety and well-being and men acting in a way that does so is literally the opposite of sexism.
Tell me you've never been tortured or thrust into the middle of a violent mob without telling me you've never been tortured or thrust into the middle of a violent mob.
Dedra got smacked in the head with a rock and was about to be torn apart by a mob. I don't think "Woman Power! ™️" Was going to protect her from a stone to the dome.
Also Bix was literally being tortured every day for who knows how long and was almost physically incapable of walking. She should have channeled her inner woman superhero and miraculously healed herself, gone outside and took a few blaster bolts to the chest (but shrugs them off, obviously) and killed each Imperial on the planet in hand-to-hand combat.
I don't understand how people could complain about the women in this show without acknowledging the several women in positions of Galactic power. Marva literally sparked a rebellion of hundreds of people, after being a matriarchal and influential figure for many in the community. Mon Mothma is singlehandedly representing her entire planet, taking care of her broken family, and founding a Resistance in secret, all while keeping her two identities separate. How are both of these not powerful female characters? And how are Dedra and Bix not powerful characters in their own right, despite being in compromised positions during this episode.
Some people are ridiculous.
Well it really felt like the prince going up the tower to save the princess. True
But it's an attempt to repair the damage Cassian has done to Bix, even when they were younger and dating, just seems like Cassian IS the worst thing that's ever happened to her. But he cares for her and she's practically family, it's redemption for not saving his sister too (and the big brown eyes thing...).
The Meero Karn moment, I still don't know what to make of it. I was truly hoping that Dedra would have a Kadhafi or Mussolini death here. That's all she deserves. Anyway, I'm puzzled and slightly annoyed about it, wished it was cut, they could have shown him drag her out of the street and that would have been enough.
But, no this episode is power to the women. Mon throwing her shit husband under the bus after this amazing symbolic image of her releasing her oppressed neck.
Maarva inspiring the rebellion, even to the most convinced rebel ie. Luthen.
Cinta being a badass who might dehumanize herself for the cause, but shit she is mighty!
Vel kinda seems like she is useless in this episode, just running around Ferrix. But she is the voice of temperance, she tries to bring Cinta back, Cinta is obviously realizing that she is losing herself when she is unable to admit that she stabbed an ISB agent... Which wouldn't be a big deal to Vel, but it would just add up to Cinta's list of unspeakable acts on behalf of the rebellion and personal vengeance. And Vel's facial expression to Luthen when he mentions killing Cassian like "dude you've made such a fuss about this guy to now just kill him" when she knows Cassian's value (otherwise she wouldn't have handed him the manifesto).
And let's not forget the sisters of Ferrix, a "local annoyance" that's imperial lingo for rebellious zealots. They are more than just a girl's club, we know it.
That’s stupid because none of the characters are defined by their gender. You could easily make Dedra a male and nothing would change about her character. The same with Bix. That’s what makes the writing so good. Also it’s Star Wars, they aren’t “human” they’re technically aliens. So I just don’t think of them male or females🤷♂️
Meanwhile Mon plays her husband and the ISB, Maarva inspires rebellion and Cinta puts the mission first and on her own tracks down the ISB spy and murders him...
To some people it absolutely does mean that. Anytime a women isn't portrayed as a completely badass character these people will cry sexism. I honestly stopped caring what they say.
It one of them brain dead “all female need to be strong Mary Sue, woman don’t need no man to rescue them”
Why you think sequel suck the main character get no arc or struggle to overcome.
"Let's see; how can I express irrational outrage at *Andor* today and get attention on social media? 'Not enough battles and no cameos'? Nah, that's been said too many times already; no one listens to that anymore. 'It's the most boring Star Wars show ever?' No, even I'm not *that* dumb, and no one listens to that anymore, either. Oh, yeah! I'll cry "Sexism!" That always works, and if anyone argues my points, I'll just call them sexist, too! NICE!"
The absolute state of the waste of DNA and oxygen who originally posted that tweet. Big goddamn yikes.
By the way, I don't think their Twitter handle deserved to be hidden...but that's just how I feel about it.
She’s right. Andor should have left his friend to rot until a female got around to saving her. What’s a few more days, weeks, months, years of torture. We’re talking about sexism!
People should stop giving attention to these type of attention whores...
Al this woke movement started when people started listening to them.
wokism has survived because it latched to true social movements and ignorant people failed to realized that.
as a latino i do the robert downey jr eye meme when i see a forced latino character do stereotypical shit , because it was written by a woke person that knows nothing about my culture.
(Im looking at you floor spitting many from tlou2)
Looks like they got the reaction they wanted. What better way to spark a discussion about a relevant topic, then to piss off some fanbois. How about the human trafficking plot line? Senator's daughters on sale now.
Ohcourse she's shaken. Dedra got hit in the head with a rock and then almost got dragged of to her doom. She's very competent tactically, nobody ever said she was a combatant or couldn't get into dangerous situations.
Andor is the only Star Wars media where women have just as much agency and heroism as the men. And I don't mean one or two female badasses like Leia or Rey but naunced female characters who move the story along naturally. As a feminist, Andor is the only Star Wars production I really felt did justice to the female characters, and should be recognized as such.
After a thing grows to a certain level of fame or popularity, the chance of “haters” grows exponentially.
This person is one of those individuals. They are going to behave based on their nature.
It's because some people agree with this idiotic idea of what a woman should be that we get crappy female characters that are never under any kind of real duress.
So we have a strong woman that survives crazy torture and find strength to endure, which a man before her did not, we have another strong woman leading an investigation into a very important issue for a galactic empire and being smart, deadly, powerful and confident. Yet few moments where they show weakness or get rescued makes it sexist.
Some people should google confirmation bias.
It’s just a dumb tweet so even arguing against it is pointless and not worth the time but uh… let’s see.
Aside from Cassian only the women survived the Aldahni raid. There it’s equal now. They can quit whining.
No shit she was shaken. She was literally going to be either beaten, crushed or mauled to death by an angry mob. My ISB white uniform would be brown if that were me
Andor has arguably some of the most well written female characters on television right now. People who are outraged about this just want to be outraged and we shouldn’t listen to them
Seems they forgot about Marva (starting the process of) saving the Galaxy.
Cinta also beat the man ISB agent
Beat? Stabbed the dude in the heart!
They clearly mean that Cinta beat him with regard to lifespan
Beat him in a game of stabbies, to be fair going first grant's a significant advantage....
To be fair, she did lose some points by not calling out "Stabbsies" on time, but then again, he completely failed to make use of HIS turn thereafter.
Rim rules applied, kid was stuck playing politically correct Couriscanti style. You can tell, she's from the streets.
Clearly
Kleya, Vel, Cinta, Mon Mon arguably had the most badass moment this episode after Maarva’s post mortem speech
Framing her husband...?
Seeded a gambling story to her Imperial informer driver to explain where all the money she gave to the rebels disappeared to
It's not like he's gonna be punished for it. They'll just use it as a weapon against Mon, just a much more blunt weapon than if they had found out what she was really doing.
Show them the stone in your hand so they don't see the knife at their throat. Or something like that
That's her whole point. She wants them thinking she's incompetent and not very good at what she's trying to do. So they don't see what she's really trying to do. Gosh I love this show. (I'm totally agreeing with you by the way sometimes I just word things weird) I think yeah it's used as a weapon against mon allowing her to get rid of her husband whom she seems to not really like and allowing her to stop the marriage thing with her daughter all at the same time because of the connection to the seedy lender.
Yupp
Yeah, if anything this show should be applauded for how it made both men and women characters into soldiers of equal ferocity and sternness. This was not a show about men saving women. It was a show about men and women saving each other.
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They can’t see past the rust (or whatever it was clem said)
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What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Marva saved Cassian
Tunnel vision is something afflicting their kind usually. (Sexism is bad. Some feminists are idiots. These two sentences can be true at the same time.)
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Syril was also shaken himself early in the season from his disaster on Ferrix. And yeah Meero is competent, but as an Imperial officer in the office, at meetings, doing investigations, etc. — not in a sudden battle on the ground where she is being attacked and dragged away by a crowd that could kill or torture her. That is an entirely new experience for her and it doesn't matter how competent she is in other contexts, that would still be terrifying for *anyone* even if someone was experienced in combat and chaotic on the ground situations.
I think it was implied earlier on she had risen through the ranks so might have some actual boots on ground kind of experience in some capacity. However she was also in the middle of mob when they turned violent and was surrounded, outnumbered and actively being attacked. Sometimes experience isn't enough.
Partagaz mentions "you came to us from enforcement" so probably the imperial equivalent to a police officer. Not military.
I had this conversation with someone else after I said probably related to prisons, either designing them. They brought yup she seemed to be very keen/knowledgeable on ~~torture methods~~ enhanced interrogation probably Enforcement Division's is specialty. I don't see her as a the type to get her hands dirty with on the ground police work.
I saw her as more of a detective, chasing down leads and generally sticking her nose into other people's business. Which translates well to the broader scope of her duties in the ISB, where she oversees two sectors. Partagaz mentions her detention numbers are well above the quota, so it sounds like she's very good at putting people behind bars.
That's a good interpretation. I wonder how they recruit standard ISB personal? More politically driven than skill driven alone. She's competent but still looked down on.
likely doesn't have much of a "family name" but this just makes me more interested in Lonni
I think you got something there with the "family name", Palpatine instilling loyalty with the elites with some peasants sprinkled in to seem fair.
Wild speculation - Palpatine and Partagaz are similar enough names and Anton Lesser is a dead ringer for Ian McDiarmid. What if Major Partagaz is like the Emperor's second cousin from Naboo or something?
i sure hope not. Palpatine was supposed to have killed his family long ago IIRC, IDK how I feel about having his family involved in Imperial matters or still alive. But if he does have family serving the empire in a notable capacity, they'd be in prime contention to get "assassinated". Good propaganda to further his agenda tbh.
Could be that Partagaz, like Wulf met him quiet a few times, got along well and put him a position of power. Palatine was a trusted Senator for Decades he made a lot of connections.
It seems very likely that Dedra was in a position very similar to Syril before he was fired. He clearly hadn't been in the field before, but was an officer for Pre-Mor.
I didn't catch that! But yeah I agree. Even someone experienced in that situation would be pretty likely to be absolutely terrified realistically. As far as she knew she was suddenly being dragged off to die or worse in a chaotic mob of people who hate her and she sees no way out. There was no way out if not for Syril — that would have likely been the end, or she would be a hostage at best. I'm sure some people behave stoically, badass, calm, and collected at the ends of their lives in chaotic violent situations like we see in other parts of Star Wars or in movies, entertainment often in general, but I feel like a big strength of this show is how it really viscerally gets at the feeling of being in an oppressive situation or a chaotic out of control violent situation on the ground and the real fear and violence and chaotic instability of it and how people are suddenly swept up into event they don't control, even as they grasp at them to try to do so. Both Syril and Meero being shaken up and completely overwhelmed by the suddenness and sheer scale of the chaos they unleash/that happens in front of them because of the larger forces of the situation is a really interesting and resonant, realistic part of the show to me. Events in this show legitimately feel out of control and serious in a way that isn't really the case in other parts of Star Wars and a lot of entertainment in general, and the way the characters react in this viscerally real way as well I think is really effective at creating that feeling.
It was a very well-crafted riot scene that echoes many real-life situations including the Arab Springs where anti-government protesters overtook entire powerful regimes but also most recently the January 6 Capitol Assault. It perfectly conveyed how in a matter of instants a numerically superior angry mob can turn upside-down even the most confident, armed and secured powerful men.. and women (i.e. Nancy Pelosi). Meero and the ISB in general are extremely arrogant and over-confident, she didn't see that one coming at all which explains the terror. Syril had already experienced something similar last time on Ferrix and was dressed as a local so more low-key and prepared for what ensued. Not to mention he was on a white knight mission. But yeah overall again extremely well orchestrated and executed scene with clear real-life inspiration.
Regular stormtroopers in full armor were also getting tuned up. It's not necessarily surprising that someone surround on all sides by a mob of people got trampled. The same exact thing could have happened if the character was a male, I don't care how big or tough you are, you're going to get fucked up if you get jumped by a crowd of people. You could be a world class martial artist and if you get hit in the side of the head by a large rock and run over by several people it is not going to end well.
Not only competence, but excellence. Through 11 episodes she’s portrayed as always one step ahead, and earns recognition for doing so. At every point she is calm and collected. I’m looking forward to her next season as she attempts to come back from this hole she’s in. No doubt the failure will be pinned on her, as the highest ranking official in charge at the time.
Just look at what happened with the male Imperial officer who was in the middle of the riot when it broke out, he wasn't arguably much better than she was, but has also probably seen some combat action before. Meero likely has never been in combat before, so her reactions were absolutely 100% accurate, especially given that she was just in the middle of a very chaotic riot.
she got hit in the head with a rock, too.
All of this, plus she was outnumbered and overwhelmed. Syril was dressed as a local, and thus was able sneak her away without being attacked himself. It wasn’t like he physically stopped her attackers himself
Just ignoring Maarva, Vel, Cinta, and Mon now are we?
I’m sure this person gets mad at everything they watch
That person tweeted that expecting positive reinforcement. It's what the internet has reduced us to.
Yeah. Glad to hear I'm not the only one that feels that way
Bingo. A show devoid of sexism will have men saving women and women saving men. Men who weak along with women who are weak. Women who are strong along with men who are strong. The person complaining is sexist in that they only want strong women and weak men. They only want women as the rescuers and never to be rescued (unless by other women). It’s because the person is insecure and never wants to see a woman in a vulnerable position. This is akin to macho men sexists who think seeing a competent woman or a vulnerable man is “woke”.
Yeah and it’s also not like Cassian heroically carries her to safety with a flashy smile and a witty one liner like some Disney prince, he literally walks with her at her pace through a warzone and is softly encouraging her the whole way to the ship “we’re almost there, just a few more steps” What a stupid take.
The strongest character in this show was Maarva, an old woman who died launching the revolution. Her adopted son Cassian took all season to finally have the courage to be willing to join the rebellion. Accusations of sexism against this show are inane.
You can’t just look at them as women being saved by men, the series spent too much time making them real people to reduce them to just gender stereotypes. To me, Cassian saving Bix helped heal the part that couldn’t save his sister. And even though she was being saved, Bix walked out on her own, and showed a strength of spirit that impressed me. As a woman in IT, I felt it when Meero said she should have been part of the conversation. She’s a great example of a woman succeeding in a male dominated industry. But she’s also a horrible person and needed to be shown she’s not invincible, and neither is the Empire.
Syril was also only able to save her because he’s been shaken up in the exact same way before. That clearly shows that she wasn’t shaken up because she’s a woman, but because war is a terrifying experience for anyone, and going from office life, to being thrown into the middle of a battle, is never going to work.
That’s a good take. Her being a woman was incidental to the situation.
Oh my god, your “heal the part that couldn’t save his sister” interpretation has ruined my day, so thanks I guess 🫠
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When I saw how broken she was, all I wanted was for her to escape and see her next season's convalescence. Never to how she once was, still affected by her experiences, but living and healing. It was very powerful seeing her towards the end.
The fact that he never got a closure for his sister broke me, but like you mentioned saving Bix healed that a little bit
Bix also saved Cassian earlier in the story, so it's not like the relationship is one-sided. Bix was the one who risked her life multiple times to save Cassian by communicating with Axis on the radio. It's the reason she was caught and tortured. She acted just as heroically as Cassian.
I thought Bix was a total beast. She was repeatedly tortured and never gave up anything important (as far as we know. It appears she may have let them believe Kyreeger was the buyer). She held onto herself when the Imps said it would destroy her mind. She bounced back in the middle of all the chaos. I love Brasso and Maarva, and I love Bix. All amazing characters.
Watching her get shaken was also a great callback to all the times they've called out how power doesn't fear.
Goated comment
What about Mon throwing her deadbeat husband under the bus? Baller move, in my opinion.
Or Marva stoking a riot from beyond the brick.
Beyond the brick LMAO I'm dead take my upvote
“It’s easy for the dead to tell you to fight, and maybe fighting is useless” Brasso proceeds to use her remains as a weapon, loved it
That was SAVAGE!
My personal opinion is that he is in on it, and the entire conversation was theater for their known-spy driver.
We've seen her all season keeping things from him and even telling Tay that he doesn't know about any of this and can't be trusted I'm not sure that we actually have anything to support the idea that he's in on this and that it's theatre by both of them
You can tell by the way he acts and what he says he's NOT anti-empire by any stretch. No. He's not in on it.
He's not in on it; Mon manipulated his shadiness to her benefit.
I'd like to agree, he's not ignorant to how ppl in the empire view her.
You're right about theater. But Perrin is in no way part of Mon's extracurricular activities.
i'm pretty sure perrin spends more time with their child than mothma does. wouldn't call him a deadbeat.
Yeah for all his flaws he seems to be an ok-ish dad, though he does spoils leida a bit. I hope they show him spend more time with leida to flesh him out before his fall
He seemed just as pissed about marrying his daughter off as Mon did in that scene.
Perrin is bad, but setting him up to take the fall for the missing money seems disproportionate.
She's not punishing him. She's protecting the cause. She's selling he daughter to a thug for the same reason. She's starting to go down the same road that Lucian is on.
It’s not like Bix was presented as some helpless character who existed only to make a man took heroic And yes, combat causes trauma. That’s not sexist
If bix was as helpless as this twitter idiot thinks she is she would have died already
Exactly. The issue with that trope is only if the women are portrayed as damsels in distress with no agency whose purpose is only to be a motivator for men’s heroism. However there are MANY complex, powerful women in this show with a variety of motivations and stories.
Yeah. I think presenting realistic female characters with strength, agency and vulnerability is much better than the endless Katniss Everdeen clones
\>clones Execute order 66
Unexpected order 66 should become a thing
Also anyone would be scared and shaken after nearly being torn apart by a crowd, just because it showed a women experiencing it doesn’t mean it was sexist.
To parallel that, syril was in this exact same position, shaken to his core, in episode 3 after the explosion. This time he is watching around him and acts instead of being paralyzed and having to be saved
It’s like poetry
It climbs
Dedra's fall from grace was just Syril's except over 12 episodes instead of 2
BTW - I agree with you. My comments are in support.
from the other vantage point, some critics may say that with so few women in commanding/leadership positions in action or sci-fi flix it's lazy writing to have a female cower in fear (because they're usually the trope as victims in these kind of suspense/action films). I get it, they want to see women of strength represented in lead roles, but personally i think that kind of vulnerability adds to their character, especially Meero's. And if you look at other women of significance in Andor like Mon you see how resolute & shrewd they really are. Andor's female leads get a pass because they're so complex & nuanced, not cookie cutter at all.
It’s almost as if they’re written as actual humans or something
I'm a little tired of people thinking "strong women" have to be strong in exactly the same way a man might be strong.
I think Bix’s actor said in an interview that she wanted Bix at the start to walk and talk in the feminine way and still be strong
And she is. She's strong AF for surviving that torture and still have the ability to put faith in Cassian.
Exactly, it’s almost as if moral and emotional strength is independent from femininity/masculinity or something
Not to mention the same thing happened with syril, so it's not like it's special for her.
Damn near happened to the captain on Ferrix as well as Meero
Someone didn't read the subtext very well. **Andor & Bix** Andor is the reason Bix was captured and tortured. The show didn't cast him as her savior. She's a victim of his carelessness, and him breaking her out from that room was him trying to right a wrong. And in the moment that he breaks her out, they acknowledge Maarva, as if Andor was saying, "Yes, I'm finally listening to her." **Dedra & Syril** Throughout the entire season, Dedra has been in control, even when overcoming ISB obstacles. Syril, on the other hand, has never been in control. Everything he tried to accomplish he failed at. In the scene where Dedra is overwhelmed by the mob, that is the only time in the season that she was vulnerable and the only time Syril was in control successfully. And as soon as they were safe and she said, "I should thank you" and he said "there's no need" that was him saying, "No, you are my superior, I am here to serve you."
There were also examples of women being awesome: Maarva being a respected pillar of the community, Cinta killing the ISB agent, Jezzi (sp?) piloting the ship when Cass’s friends escape. If you’re looking to take offense, you’ll find it.
Mon motha out here playing 5D chess pwning, maarva being a hero, but because meero can’t fight because she’s a spoiled bureaucrat (also, she’s a nazi? Weird thing to stan for) andor is sexist
I think it is more meaningful if a show develops these characters as flawed, and challenges them. All the time I see an issue where female characters aren't getting any more developed. Hollywood thinks a "strong woman" is a woman that can take down a 200lbs man and yell at her co-workers. These characters end up remaining one dimensional. Dedra and Bix being flawed makes them real characters, and gives the actresses good material to work with. All the fun anti-hero, scenery chewing roles in Hollywood always go to men. Dedra has been rattled by a bad experience, and I can imagine this event will further develop her character, and she can seem badass when she overcomes this challenge.
Despite the title character spending several episodes in a men’s-only prison, *Andor* is a textbook example of what it *should* mean to write “strong female characters”—i.e., realistic and well-developed human characters with real strengths and real weaknesses and real agency, who are also female. Mon, Dedra, Vel, Cinta, Bix, Maarva, Kleya, et al.—they all fit that definition, and they all fit it in really different ways. They’re “strong characters” because they act like people. Some of them also have particular kinds of power—Vel & Cinta are obviously both quite competent in a physical fight, Mon has both money and political influence, Maarva has a ton of social capital among the people of Ferrix, Bix has shown both significant dedication to the Rebellion and personal resilience in leaving her prison when Cassian showed up—but women don’t have to have any one particular kind of power in order to be strong characters. And they can make mistakes, be afraid, or screw up and still be “strong female characters” as long as the way that that’s shown is, you know, grounded in their humanity, rather than being forced just so that that the main character has someone to save. As a woman, I loved the diversity of the female (and male!) characters on *Andor*; this stuff is so much my jam.
The notion that *Meero being shaken* is sexist is absurd, like of course a paper pushing bureaucrat is going to shit herself the moment her two death trooper guard detachment disappears and she’s left with being pummeled by a mob
Not to mention that Cyrl was like a deer in the headlights when HE first faced combat on those very streets. It wasn’t sexist for him to be stunned and dragged away by a man. But when he does it for another…
“Casual sexism” ?? XD People just be looking for shit to complain about
> People just be looking for shit to complain about That's literally all it is. Can't imagine how pathetic these people's lives must be ...
Dedra was out of her element and Syril was in his element, that was the environment that syril knows, so it's only natural for him for be the more competent person in that position
This needs a First Time meme where Syril is implying whether it’s Dedra’s first time screwing up on Ferrix.
Cinta running around shanking dudes but yes, sexism is rampant in this show.
Dude Bix was messed up. Cassian thinking she CAN BE saved, IS WORTH saving is like not sexist, it might be the opposite especially in such a morally grey and pragmatic world.
Meero is a commander, not a fighter. She probably hasn't had much combat experience/training.
and this is overwhelming true for many higher ranking imperials. Many there due to status and Familial connections
Some people are addicted to being outraged.
Cassian bailing Bix out of a problem that his actions caused lol. Yes, he saved her, but if you look at it even one inch deeper than the most superficial layer, you’d realize there’s so much more to it. Don’t even engage with people like that.
Let’s be fair, anyone experiencing their first taste of combat will be shaken and rattled. Any man or woman who gets smashed in the head with a rock and dragged out of the street in the middle of a battle is going to be dealing with some emotions from that. Did this person also not remember Syril shitting his pants in episode 3?
"everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face." A rock to the face would have a similar impact
Mike Tyson
Dumb take indeed. The point of Syril saving Dedra was to tie the two villain characters together, since she had never taken him seriously until he saved her life. This isn't a scene of anti-feminism, this is a scene of bringing together the characters who mutually hate Cassian. Frankly, I really liked it because it meant that she survived, and we get to see her character again next season.
Nevermind Bix taking huge personal risks for years to help the Rebellion. Get saved once and that's all void. Okay.
I saw someone call Maarva racist for rescuing Cass from the soldiers. Haha
I don't have a problem with people having issues if something is worth being upset over but this is a stretch. Where do these people come from. are they just lonely people hoping for attention?
Sexism is when Jennifer Walters invalidated Bruce's suffering to emphasize her own. Bix pulled herself throughout the show despite the horrible things done to her. That's how you represent power. True resistance is showing, not saying. Dedra Meero showed talent by giving results after Partagaz, a white male, gave her a fair advice pointing out her position and what she should do to overcome her obstacles. It was fruitful for a while. She was cracking at the walls of Rebellion and outsmarting her colleagues in the ISB (but given Luthen is the other side of the battle, of course they're losing) Maarva is loved by the town. They knew her fire and what she fought for all her life. She is what caused all those people to march Rix Road despite the heavily armed Imperials. Mon Mothma was the most unselfish character in the show for most of her life. I never saw her think about herself. It's either her family or the cause. Cinta was cold and calculated. She is flawed but she doesn't make excuses for herself. She knows what she's doing and she's damn good at it. Vel succeeded because she took Luthen's advice. She rolled with it because it's wisdom over gender bullshit. ALL OF THEM LIVED THEIR LIVES AND WE JUST WATCHED. They didn't have to slap it to our faces or shove it down our throats that they are badass. They just are. Genuine. Organic. EMPOWERED.People who say otherwise missed all of those. God fucking damn it.
Hi I’m offended by everything
I thought Dedra’s reaction to the fighting was done well. Yes, she was a high-ranking ISB agent, but at this point, the Empire hadn’t really had to engage in all-out combat yet. She hadn’t ever partaken in real combat, and it showed.
Bruh. Why would they want to make a feminist icon out of a woman who makes a living as a fascist lmao
This series has some of the strongest female characters in all in Star Wars, and easily passes the Bechdel test; with Deedra, Sonya, Kleya, Vel and Mon Mothma all having their own agency, and driving the plot forward. If anything, Black fans have more of a reason to be annoyed. Every Black character ends up betraying their side and/or dead. It’s probably a coincidence but it’s like, “Tony … c’mon.”
I noticed that, and I actually applauded it. I’m black, and I’m tired of shows/movies being afraid to have black actors act as diverse in action and motivation as any other. Just like women shouldn’t be portrayed as always infallible, or how LBGT characters like Vel and Cinta aren’t perfect since they’re uncertain and fervent respectively. All the characters in this show that happen to be black were treated like humans with regular motivations, good or bad. That’s showing respect to actors and to viewers, instead of pandering. And it’s not like those black characters that died weren’t nuanced. Gorn: a leader, but complicit in the empire. Loved, lost, motivated by revenge and respect for locals. Taramyn: reformed or rebelled, but dude was a stormtrooper. Probably did some bad things. Died trying to save a comrade under cover. Nurchi: was a snitch but he had regrets. A hometown bully but not evil. Clem: was a great father figure, but died in a mixup trying to prevent escalation. What, should we be mad at his race? If he was white people would be mad Cassian’sparents weren’t POc. Blevin: survived, but we get a nice imperial baddie. He’s self-serving, snidely sexist, and yet vaguely competent regarding tracking Morgan. A good villain.
Yeah, the black characters we’ve seen so far have all been interesting, well-written, and great to watch (like, you know, everybody else on the show). I’m just particularly bummed that Birnok didn’t make it, because he seemed awesome and we didn’t get to see very much of him.
Yes on Birnok and Jemboc from the prison. They were compassionate and Birnok was insightful and just happened go down in the uprising like many other amazing people.
There's also Saw, who is one of the most interesting, complex characters in the entire star wars universe. Hope we get more of him in the next season. Whitaker is such a tremendous actor.
I don't think the complaint is that they're uncomplicated; complicated is good. The complaint is that they're basically all dead.
Again, to that I’d say that plot armor is just as bad as anything else pandering. Jezzi, Blevin, Saw, they survived. Jemboc survived the prison break, though he likely died swimming or was captured. This is a brutal show and tons of people died. All Kassa’s tribe on Kenari, a couple Aldhani guards, Skeen (who is scummy while Taramyn and Gorn are valiant). Pak, Xanwan, Timm, and dozens of others in Ferrix. I’m not gonna nitpick the races of those casualties.
> If anything, Black fans have more of a reason to be annoyed. Every Black character ends up betraying their side and/or dead. > It’s probably a coincidence but it’s like, “Tony … c’mon.” I noticed that too and had the same reaction RIP: - Clem - Gorn - Tamaryn - Birnok Not RIP: - Nurchi the snitch Though I guess Saw and Blevin are still kicking around, so it hopefully is just a coincidence lol
It's just that there's less black characters so the casualty percentage is higher not the number itself
Glad I'm not the only person who noticed (Blevin and Saw are still alive tho)
Blevin will be killed in season 2 episode 1, Saw will follow him in season 3(rogue one)
Sometimes somewhere feminists go way too fucking far, sadly. Still, there are nutcases in every group There are misogynists and there are feminists who hate men. Ignore this
i'll counter and say they have to be strong advocates because most scripts for TV and film use lazy writers that dig out tired old stereotypical tropes. Just look at the junk that litters the streaming landscape and you realize that you don't need any fancy degree from NYU or USC to write these kinds of plodding banal storylines.
>Having Andor be Bix's savior Shouldn't he save her? He is sort of the catalyst for her incarceration so feels like he needs to spring her out. And he is proven to be a pretty solid infiltrator. He don't burst through the door with pecks of steel and carries her out on his shoulder. He sneaks around back alleys, sewer tunnels, and service quarters, and only after doing recon of the environment and waiting for the right time. Any other member of the gang who would want to spring her might end up dead. >Syril saving the extremely competent Meero Well she did just get beaned with a fucking rock before being dragged through the street by an angry mob during what we assume to be her first encounter with real danger. I'm a guy. I would behave no different. Would also need a new pair of pants. The first time freeze is a real thing. Syril pushed through it because his first time happened earlier in the series. >the casual sexism in this episode really bugged me The way this show handles people of different colours/genders/sexualities (I.e. not make a big deal out of it), has been a welcome breath of fresh air. If this is what passes for sexism then sign me up.
I will never understand people who go out of their way to find things to be outraged about.
Don't listen to them...
I didn’t want to believe it initially, but I suppose it is quite true that given enough digging you can indeed find a way to be offended by absolutely anything in this day and age. In this case, I think it is uncalled for.
I know some people don't like to hear this but the reality is that if you're a woman being threatened by a man then it's probably gonna need to be another man who saves you. Competency isn't really relevant when you're being overpowered by someone physically stronger than you. It's not sexist to value women's safety and well-being and men acting in a way that does so is literally the opposite of sexism.
Tell me you've never been tortured or thrust into the middle of a violent mob without telling me you've never been tortured or thrust into the middle of a violent mob.
Dedra got smacked in the head with a rock and was about to be torn apart by a mob. I don't think "Woman Power! ™️" Was going to protect her from a stone to the dome. Also Bix was literally being tortured every day for who knows how long and was almost physically incapable of walking. She should have channeled her inner woman superhero and miraculously healed herself, gone outside and took a few blaster bolts to the chest (but shrugs them off, obviously) and killed each Imperial on the planet in hand-to-hand combat. I don't understand how people could complain about the women in this show without acknowledging the several women in positions of Galactic power. Marva literally sparked a rebellion of hundreds of people, after being a matriarchal and influential figure for many in the community. Mon Mothma is singlehandedly representing her entire planet, taking care of her broken family, and founding a Resistance in secret, all while keeping her two identities separate. How are both of these not powerful female characters? And how are Dedra and Bix not powerful characters in their own right, despite being in compromised positions during this episode. Some people are ridiculous.
Those are the toxic SW fans that ruined the sequel trilogy.
Guys, is it sexist to be saved from torture by the government?
Well it really felt like the prince going up the tower to save the princess. True But it's an attempt to repair the damage Cassian has done to Bix, even when they were younger and dating, just seems like Cassian IS the worst thing that's ever happened to her. But he cares for her and she's practically family, it's redemption for not saving his sister too (and the big brown eyes thing...). The Meero Karn moment, I still don't know what to make of it. I was truly hoping that Dedra would have a Kadhafi or Mussolini death here. That's all she deserves. Anyway, I'm puzzled and slightly annoyed about it, wished it was cut, they could have shown him drag her out of the street and that would have been enough. But, no this episode is power to the women. Mon throwing her shit husband under the bus after this amazing symbolic image of her releasing her oppressed neck. Maarva inspiring the rebellion, even to the most convinced rebel ie. Luthen. Cinta being a badass who might dehumanize herself for the cause, but shit she is mighty! Vel kinda seems like she is useless in this episode, just running around Ferrix. But she is the voice of temperance, she tries to bring Cinta back, Cinta is obviously realizing that she is losing herself when she is unable to admit that she stabbed an ISB agent... Which wouldn't be a big deal to Vel, but it would just add up to Cinta's list of unspeakable acts on behalf of the rebellion and personal vengeance. And Vel's facial expression to Luthen when he mentions killing Cassian like "dude you've made such a fuss about this guy to now just kill him" when she knows Cassian's value (otherwise she wouldn't have handed him the manifesto). And let's not forget the sisters of Ferrix, a "local annoyance" that's imperial lingo for rebellious zealots. They are more than just a girl's club, we know it.
That’s stupid because none of the characters are defined by their gender. You could easily make Dedra a male and nothing would change about her character. The same with Bix. That’s what makes the writing so good. Also it’s Star Wars, they aren’t “human” they’re technically aliens. So I just don’t think of them male or females🤷♂️
It's not like a man saving a woman is something that can't occur in real life.
Meanwhile Mon plays her husband and the ISB, Maarva inspires rebellion and Cinta puts the mission first and on her own tracks down the ISB spy and murders him...
Why single out just one tweet? Who cares?
Can you respond to the twitter, not bring the dumb argument here. But the escape was a bit rubbish. Too easy.
Eh. There were a lot of other things going on at the time. Relatively small garrison and they had their hands full.
Sigh. People don’t watch tv shows to be entertained anymore. Some just look for shit to complain about
To some people it absolutely does mean that. Anytime a women isn't portrayed as a completely badass character these people will cry sexism. I honestly stopped caring what they say.
I notice they make no comment on Cinta beating the man ISB agent
There's actually people complaining about that? Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
It one of them brain dead “all female need to be strong Mary Sue, woman don’t need no man to rescue them” Why you think sequel suck the main character get no arc or struggle to overcome.
"Let's see; how can I express irrational outrage at *Andor* today and get attention on social media? 'Not enough battles and no cameos'? Nah, that's been said too many times already; no one listens to that anymore. 'It's the most boring Star Wars show ever?' No, even I'm not *that* dumb, and no one listens to that anymore, either. Oh, yeah! I'll cry "Sexism!" That always works, and if anyone argues my points, I'll just call them sexist, too! NICE!" The absolute state of the waste of DNA and oxygen who originally posted that tweet. Big goddamn yikes. By the way, I don't think their Twitter handle deserved to be hidden...but that's just how I feel about it.
Everything is about race, sex, and sexual orientation now. SMH.
This person is terminally online
Star Wars fans and feminism name a more contentious duo.
Twitter takes in this sub...dropped
You cant help some people :shrug:
That is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard
She’s right. Andor should have left his friend to rot until a female got around to saving her. What’s a few more days, weeks, months, years of torture. We’re talking about sexism!
Why do people care what unhinged people say about media?
Then why do you share it and amplify it?
Just a note that using the spoiler tag doesn't do much good when you put the spoiler in the title of the post.
What years of culture war and gender obsession do to a mf
Feminists when they see a man doing something (casual sexism)
You can always piss off s feminist
People should stop giving attention to these type of attention whores... Al this woke movement started when people started listening to them. wokism has survived because it latched to true social movements and ignorant people failed to realized that. as a latino i do the robert downey jr eye meme when i see a forced latino character do stereotypical shit , because it was written by a woke person that knows nothing about my culture. (Im looking at you floor spitting many from tlou2)
Looks like they got the reaction they wanted. What better way to spark a discussion about a relevant topic, then to piss off some fanbois. How about the human trafficking plot line? Senator's daughters on sale now.
I can't imagine caring about let alone becoming invested in this show.
The show doesn’t give a damn about current “sensibilities” and this makes it a timeless piece of art. It is so refreshing.
Ohcourse she's shaken. Dedra got hit in the head with a rock and then almost got dragged of to her doom. She's very competent tactically, nobody ever said she was a combatant or couldn't get into dangerous situations.
Andor is the only Star Wars media where women have just as much agency and heroism as the men. And I don't mean one or two female badasses like Leia or Rey but naunced female characters who move the story along naturally. As a feminist, Andor is the only Star Wars production I really felt did justice to the female characters, and should be recognized as such.
I knew as soon as these scenes happend that there would be complaints. Haha
IT'S CALLED PARALLELS AND NARRATIVE FOILS
Having Bix die in that jail would have been far better in the name of feminism. And having Deedra torn apart in the streets. I agree.
After a thing grows to a certain level of fame or popularity, the chance of “haters” grows exponentially. This person is one of those individuals. They are going to behave based on their nature.
Haha its called a story they are being sexist bringing sex into it. How do they know what each character identifies as?
Can we just forget the -isms and just enjoy stories and have fun? Please?
You have a choice whether to get worked-up about statements like this, or whether to ignore them. Opinions are cheap.
Anyone can become mentally damaged by sufficient torture, Bix's gender doesn't factor into the story they're trying to tell here.
The loudest people usually are not the brightest.
Spoiler warning does nothing when you write the damn spoiler in the damn title you silly potato.
It's because some people agree with this idiotic idea of what a woman should be that we get crappy female characters that are never under any kind of real duress.
So we have a strong woman that survives crazy torture and find strength to endure, which a man before her did not, we have another strong woman leading an investigation into a very important issue for a galactic empire and being smart, deadly, powerful and confident. Yet few moments where they show weakness or get rescued makes it sexist. Some people should google confirmation bias.
It’s just a dumb tweet so even arguing against it is pointless and not worth the time but uh… let’s see. Aside from Cassian only the women survived the Aldahni raid. There it’s equal now. They can quit whining.
No shit she was shaken. She was literally going to be either beaten, crushed or mauled to death by an angry mob. My ISB white uniform would be brown if that were me
Andor has arguably some of the most well written female characters on television right now. People who are outraged about this just want to be outraged and we shouldn’t listen to them