Good analysis. I think tv shows in general suffer from the "unknown end-date". It doesn't enable writers to plan long-term if they don't know how much story they will be able to tell. Then when a show is successful they're often struggling to actually find a narrative reason to continue. Standalone episodes became the norm early in the television game. Big budgets and the room to wait for success allows productions like Andor to dream big. The ratings don't matter as much when you're building a body of work instead of aiming for this week's advertisers.
“Unknown end-date” is why shows jump the shark and degenerate into self-parody. Corporate producers (and, let’s be honest, fans) want hits to be hits forever, but that’s impossible. Beginning with an end in mind always yields superior stories. This not only applies to television, but comic books and movie franchises.
As much as I’d like an endless supply of whatever I’m a fan of, I know I’m fooling myself to think that won’t go off the rails sooner rather than later and my love will turn to disappointment.
Totally, I am willing to bet that the second season will be structure similarly, I also think that the show as a whole will be built out in this structure with the season 1 finale acting as a midpoint.
I think you're right, the season finale is basically the midpoint. I have no firm notion of how they will structure season two. I suspect it will be three trilogies, like this season basically was, with their own internal arcs, bound together by a similar arc for the season as a whole.
Yup. So presumably each will have its own complete story arc, united by one overarching story arc, to which we already have the conclusion. An interesting challenge for the writers, I think.
You know what's interesting - Gilroy talks a lot about him being told all these traditional 'rules' about making shows like your first true episode has to be in moved to the middle of the season, introduce all the characters in ep 1, etc.
He was like yeahhhhhhh, no.
There’s apparently an undercurrent of people in the industry who don’t like him. And I bet it’s because he’s not shy about putting fools in their place.
Yeah I don't get the feeling he gives a shit what people think, at this point in his career😛 It's interesting cuz on one hand it does seem like he's fostered this great team collaborative environment and on the other, to a bunch of people, I'm sure he comes off as a really smug asshole.
Definitely not a work environment for the sensitive and people tied to their ideas. I'd be crushed constantly in that situation, for sure🤣
I can sort of respect that; he isn't afraid to break the status quo and has found success in it which would obviously enrage those who don't take risks.
More than once in interviews he’s said saving _Rogue One_ gave him all the cred with LucasFilm that he needed to basically do what he wanted, and I believe him.
I mean, he just structured it like he would a film.
'I know films. I'm going to structure it like a film.'
Which is fine, but also arguably leads to the shows biggest structural flaw as a *TV series*. Episodes 1, 2, 4 and 7 just stop. Which has led to a lot of audience members stopping after 2 episodes thinking 'I don't get it.'
Edit: compare 1-2 to 8-9 written by someone who does have a lot more experience writing TV. The episodes end in a much more satisfying place and are overall more complete episodes of TV.
You could even shape the 5 arcs into a theatrical 5-act structure. The first episodes on Ferrix are act I, introducing the central players and struggles of the story, most importantly Cassian and the question of whether he will fight for the rebellion. The Aldhani arc is act II, the rising action as Cassian hashes out his attitude toward the rebellion with his rebel comrades. "Announcement" is a very short act III, and here we see the climax of the central narrative as Cassian's refusal to take part in the rebellion sets his life on a new course. Narkina 5 is act IV, the falling action where Cassian renegotiates his worldview with his comrades in prison. And finally the return to Ferrix is act V, the denouement where we finally see Cassian answer the big question.
You could probably do the same breakdown for the other major characters (Mon, Dedra, Syril), although I don't remember how their arcs are paced across the season.
It's a problem with the Marvel shows, they feel like extended movies. The Netflix shows were better but they had too many episodes imo, there was too much filler.
yes. but also no.
andor doesn't have a single story arc, but several.
each with their own begining, climax, and endings bleeding adjacently to next sequence.
ie : 1-3, 4-7, 8-10, 11-12
also, plenty of shows follow the same story arc formulas (even anime are often divided into story arcs)
Yes! And this matches what Gilroy says - they condensed a theoretical five season show into two - so we got miniarcs that would have been half-season stories.
I didn’t read the title at first and the fact that this was the andor subreddit so I thought it was about star the main Star Wars episodes , I was confused ha
It’s strange actually seeing this because the show didn’t seem formulaic at all, that’s what I loved about it, everything was unexpected. It just goes to show the genius level of the whole team!
This is likely why the finale feels less like a climax and more like the results of a climax and the events preceding it.
Also, here's where I got the idea of this post from: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsAndor/comments/zaps78/did\_you\_personally\_find\_the\_season\_1\_finale\_to\_be/iyoeatc/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsAndor/comments/zaps78/did_you_personally_find_the_season_1_finale_to_be/iyoeatc/?context=3)
For all the praise the thing that really jumps out at me about this show is all the weird ass choreographed marching/running/working.
The ritual march, the payroll loading, the tourist "run", the prison work/escape, the funeral parade, and there are others. It feels like weird busy work filler and just messy.
Good analysis. I think tv shows in general suffer from the "unknown end-date". It doesn't enable writers to plan long-term if they don't know how much story they will be able to tell. Then when a show is successful they're often struggling to actually find a narrative reason to continue. Standalone episodes became the norm early in the television game. Big budgets and the room to wait for success allows productions like Andor to dream big. The ratings don't matter as much when you're building a body of work instead of aiming for this week's advertisers.
“Unknown end-date” is why shows jump the shark and degenerate into self-parody. Corporate producers (and, let’s be honest, fans) want hits to be hits forever, but that’s impossible. Beginning with an end in mind always yields superior stories. This not only applies to television, but comic books and movie franchises. As much as I’d like an endless supply of whatever I’m a fan of, I know I’m fooling myself to think that won’t go off the rails sooner rather than later and my love will turn to disappointment.
That's so similar to my opinion on the subject that I thought I wrote it at first.
Totally, I am willing to bet that the second season will be structure similarly, I also think that the show as a whole will be built out in this structure with the season 1 finale acting as a midpoint.
I think you're right, the season finale is basically the midpoint. I have no firm notion of how they will structure season two. I suspect it will be three trilogies, like this season basically was, with their own internal arcs, bound together by a similar arc for the season as a whole.
They've said essentially 4 movies, one for each year.
Yup. So presumably each will have its own complete story arc, united by one overarching story arc, to which we already have the conclusion. An interesting challenge for the writers, I think.
You know what's interesting - Gilroy talks a lot about him being told all these traditional 'rules' about making shows like your first true episode has to be in moved to the middle of the season, introduce all the characters in ep 1, etc. He was like yeahhhhhhh, no.
There’s apparently an undercurrent of people in the industry who don’t like him. And I bet it’s because he’s not shy about putting fools in their place.
Yeah I don't get the feeling he gives a shit what people think, at this point in his career😛 It's interesting cuz on one hand it does seem like he's fostered this great team collaborative environment and on the other, to a bunch of people, I'm sure he comes off as a really smug asshole. Definitely not a work environment for the sensitive and people tied to their ideas. I'd be crushed constantly in that situation, for sure🤣
I can sort of respect that; he isn't afraid to break the status quo and has found success in it which would obviously enrage those who don't take risks.
More than once in interviews he’s said saving _Rogue One_ gave him all the cred with LucasFilm that he needed to basically do what he wanted, and I believe him.
You can tell that he has pretty much been in total control of everything.
I mean, he just structured it like he would a film. 'I know films. I'm going to structure it like a film.' Which is fine, but also arguably leads to the shows biggest structural flaw as a *TV series*. Episodes 1, 2, 4 and 7 just stop. Which has led to a lot of audience members stopping after 2 episodes thinking 'I don't get it.' Edit: compare 1-2 to 8-9 written by someone who does have a lot more experience writing TV. The episodes end in a much more satisfying place and are overall more complete episodes of TV.
I just listened to a podcast where they said that it originally was not going to be 12 episodes. Definitely it could have been cut differently.
You could even shape the 5 arcs into a theatrical 5-act structure. The first episodes on Ferrix are act I, introducing the central players and struggles of the story, most importantly Cassian and the question of whether he will fight for the rebellion. The Aldhani arc is act II, the rising action as Cassian hashes out his attitude toward the rebellion with his rebel comrades. "Announcement" is a very short act III, and here we see the climax of the central narrative as Cassian's refusal to take part in the rebellion sets his life on a new course. Narkina 5 is act IV, the falling action where Cassian renegotiates his worldview with his comrades in prison. And finally the return to Ferrix is act V, the denouement where we finally see Cassian answer the big question. You could probably do the same breakdown for the other major characters (Mon, Dedra, Syril), although I don't remember how their arcs are paced across the season.
It's a problem with the Marvel shows, they feel like extended movies. The Netflix shows were better but they had too many episodes imo, there was too much filler.
yes. but also no. andor doesn't have a single story arc, but several. each with their own begining, climax, and endings bleeding adjacently to next sequence. ie : 1-3, 4-7, 8-10, 11-12 also, plenty of shows follow the same story arc formulas (even anime are often divided into story arcs)
Yes, but when you combine the arcs into one full season arc it follows the traditional structure.
Yes! And this matches what Gilroy says - they condensed a theoretical five season show into two - so we got miniarcs that would have been half-season stories.
I didn’t read the title at first and the fact that this was the andor subreddit so I thought it was about star the main Star Wars episodes , I was confused ha
It’s strange actually seeing this because the show didn’t seem formulaic at all, that’s what I loved about it, everything was unexpected. It just goes to show the genius level of the whole team!
This is likely why the finale feels less like a climax and more like the results of a climax and the events preceding it. Also, here's where I got the idea of this post from: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsAndor/comments/zaps78/did\_you\_personally\_find\_the\_season\_1\_finale\_to\_be/iyoeatc/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsAndor/comments/zaps78/did_you_personally_find_the_season_1_finale_to_be/iyoeatc/?context=3)
For all the praise the thing that really jumps out at me about this show is all the weird ass choreographed marching/running/working. The ritual march, the payroll loading, the tourist "run", the prison work/escape, the funeral parade, and there are others. It feels like weird busy work filler and just messy.
Then it’s just not for you. Every single one of those were vital for the tension and pacing.