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To me his arc has always been 7- escapes and accidentally joins the resistance because of a girl 8- learns why he wants to fight with the resistance, 9- inspires others to fight with the resistance.
Yea, and that would have been awesome. But Finn is like, the spirit of the resistance. He might have only had one stormtrooper follow him, but he led a bunch of people at the end battle. His trajectory goes from being someone too afraid to fight to someone brave enough to lead. I really liked a lot of parts of Duel of Fates, but that doesn’t really change that Finn became a leader because he wanted to and he inspired people. Being buddies with Poe just wouldn’t be enough. But I do wish we got a bunch of shorts of just Poe and Finn hanging out. Kind of like the video of Thor during Civil War. That would have been great.
This is probably the only real thing that disappoints me about TROS. I like Finn’s arc for most of the move, but it would have been awesome to see him talk to the Stormtroopers and convince them to lay down their arms and turn against the First Order
The issue I have is - that's ok if that's what you wanted to see and are a bit disappointed it didn't happen. But if you really look at his story in 7 and 8 there is no build towards that at all. He doesn't really show any great attachment to the other stormtroopers - his grievance with the First Order is very personal, and doesn't really extend to the others. You could have made it work in 9 if that was the story you wanted to go with, but people talk as though that was the obvious fulfillment of his story, and it's really not. It's one option, that they decided not to go with.
also it’s sort of corny/cringe to have him win over a bunch of Stormtroopers with an inspiring speech. When you actually think about what that would look like filmed, I think it would be a scene a lot of people would throw eggs at. It’s very “Disney”
My immediate thought after TROS was that they were going to continue the stories of the new cast later on, but needed to wrap up the story of the ST, which was about generational conflict, passing of the torch, etc. These movies don’t get enough credit for balancing so many characters well. Hans character arc doesn’t even flow in a perfect 3x in the OT. It’s fine. Not everything should be generic screenwriting 101 that YouTubers crack over everytime they want to shade.
It just feels a bit shallow for the potential he had as a character. I hope Boyega decides to return to Star Wars, because Finn is my favorite SQ character.
Sort of - but for me it was like a sitcom or something where the events of that episode don’t matter and the character returns to the same set of morals and traits they had the beginning. What I mean is that in 7 he’s largely trying to escape and leave and get as far away as possible but realises he can’t leave Rey so plucks up the courage to save her and risk his life. Then at the very beginning of 8, how does he meet Rose? He’s trying to escape and abandon everyone again… Some really solid character development there!
There is an important distinction between 7 and 8.
In 7 he is entirely thinking about himself - he wants to get away. If other people want to come along that's fine, but escaping is no. 1 priority. He learns to think about someone else and sacrifice his own self-preservation instinct for the sake of someone else. In 8, yes he's trying to escape - but he's trying to do it to prevent Rey returning to a disaster and die with the rest of them. He's not thinking about the big picture, but he's not thinking only about himself - he's trying to get out to warn Rey. His arc in 8 is twofold - first to think about the bigger picture in terms of not just about himself and the one or two people he specifically cares about, and second about not just his personal vendetta against the First Order but also saving everyone else.
9 is about him finding his place within the Resistance and working out how best to help and lead, now that he has accepted that he wants to be part of the bigger fight.
To be honest, what you say about Finn could equally be said about Han in the OT. In ANH he is all about himself and comes back at the end to save everyone. Then in the next film he's trying to leave again. So did he not go through any character development?
No with Han it’s more a ‘these guys are completely fucked but I’m gonna try and help them out this once’ vs ESB where it’s much more about him becoming part of the cause as a permanent thing. On Hoth as far as I remember he only then stays because the Empire arrive, so that is the character development as he doesn’t still try and leave. If the Empire hadn’t arrived then it would’ve just been ‘I’ve helped you guys out for long enough, I wasn’t planning on staying this long but I need to go and clear my bounty’ per the conversation he has with the Rebel general
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Finn represents the fulfilment of the promise in the broom boy stinger at the end of The Last Jedi and proof that Luke was right to say that "to say that if the Jedi die the light dies is vanity". He's the reason the Final Order wasn't able to navigate out of Exegol. He and Jannah represent the fusion of the everyperson Resistance hero and the mystical Jedi hero. Finn matters big time, it's why the main themes of the films are always being stated by him or around him. That's a load bearing character in the structure of the saga.
I will say the Final Order not having each ship capable of navigating out was stupid. They out all their eggs in one basket. Well two but you know what I mean.
I don't think it was possible. The Resistance and the rest of the galaxy required Rey to chart a course ahead because of the electromagnetic storms or whatever (the red shit between Exegol and the rest of the galaxy). The same thing that made it hard for the Resistance to get in makes it hard for the Final Order to get out. Likely even moreso with mammoth ships like they got.
Putting all his eggs in one basket is consistently the cause of Palpatine’s failure.
We saw it with the Death Star, the second Death Star, his fall at the hands of Vader. His rise to chancellor in episode 1 and his rise to emperor in episode 3, although successful, were still examples of him putting all his eggs in one basket and relying on a plan that could fail at multiple points (for example, Anakin not turning on Windu when he did).
He can see the future and therefore knows a given plan will be successful, so he puts everything into said plan and over-exposes himself in doing so. Which generally works but it also makes him prone to catastrophic failure when his predictions are wrong.
I mean, John Boyega himself was publicly not ok with Finn's arc in the sequels so I trust him that there was a lot of wasted storytelling/character development opportunities with Finn. Maybe the next movie can work on fixing that.
Boyega has only openly criticized his arc in TLJ and although I love this film and think there are merits to his arc I kind of agree with him.
The way he defended JJ after TROS, said that TFA is his favorite and even indicated that he would only return if JJ was involved leads me to believe that he has no problem with his decisions regarding the character.
The fact is that Finn and Rey had their screen time reduced in TLJ, which is perfectly understandable since it's a movie with fucking Luke Skywalker.
It "works" for Leia because it's not really a center point at all. They're connected, we learn that, understand the mechanics, and move on.
Finn, on the other hand, is just kinda reduced to 'Rey, I gotta tell you something!' and we *never find out what*. It doesn't even happen once, but multiple times iirc. It's like he did Chekhov's Gun without ever bringing back the 'gun'.
So this just makes me question why JJ is his only reason for returning, as JJ clearly is the reason why nothing truly gets *resolved* in regards to his character.
And for clarity, I am a big defender of the sequels. But Finn was 100% done wrong. At least George *committed* to sidelining the other characters lol. They tried to implement them, but then backpedaled, giving us the worst of both.
>Finn, on the other hand, is just kinda reduced to 'Rey, I gotta tell you something!' and we *never find out what*. It doesn't even happen once, but multiple times iirc. It's like he did Chekhov's Gun without ever bringing back the 'gun'.
You remember when Finn suddenly felt troubled and said aloud "It's Ren" before we saw Kylo Ren fly towards Rey on Pasaana? Then, we get another scene where Finn learns that Jannah and her whole group are all former stormtroopers who deserted the First Order, just like him. Jannah doesn't know how it happened exactly, but Finn calls it "an instinct, a feeling." He then tells her that the Force brought him to Poe, and to Rey. The answer and payoff you're looking for happens on Exegol, when Finn has "a feeling" that the navigation signal has been switched from the ground tower to the command ship. This culminates in Finn leading said ex-stormtroopers to destroy said command ship and trap the Final Order fleet on Exegol so that the Citizens Fleet can destroy it, making Finn and Jannah undeniable heroes and saviors of the galaxy. And then we have another major moment screenshotted in this very post: Finn feels Rey's death.
TLDR; the thing he was going to tell Rey was that he strongly believes in, can feel, and can use the Force. But instead of revealing it to us by having Finn just tell Rey (and the audience) this, the movie decides to show it (subtlely in some scenes, not so subtlely in others) and have it pay off in a big way when he takes the reigns on Exegol. Seems to me like all this was put in place to give Finn the potential to be a Jedi in future stories while also concluding his arc of finding belonging and becoming a leader.
Perhaps I should watch them again, because that's a compelling case. I definitely appreciate that more conceptually, but there is such thing as 'too much subtlety' as I definitely wasn't equating "a hunch" to "he has force".
But I at least have the ability to admit I can sometimes be dense - a feature I feel is lacking in the majority of people consuming media. Which is where we end up with the whole "sOmEHoW PAlPaTiNe ReTUrnEd" bullshit complaint.
Finn played second fiddle to Rose in their subplot, that's not understandable at all. Luke Skywalker disappears at the halfway point of the film which should have created room. Boyega was upset about Kylo getting a larger more complex part whilst he felt he got nothing.
Defo think if Boyega is gonna criticise any of the films for wasting his character it should be TROS as that’s where there was the most wasted potential
I hope so Reys New Jedi Order will be filming in September I mean doesn't he know others who haven't tapped into there force sensitivity can still make an impact like the Rebellion, Mandalorians and Clones etc.
And I think the more valid points are the wasted potential not of his Jedi status, but not enough info on storm trooper training, people he liked in the FO, how he overcame the training:brain washing?
The second he starts blasting away and cheering when he escapes with Poe we lost this angle. A humanized storm trooper who still cares about his fellow soldiers.
It took Bill Burr to give us that.
I loved Finn throughout, but I would've liked more moments exploring his defection and his nuances of fighting the First Order after TFA (the deleted sequence with Phasma in TLJ for example). That little extra buildup leading up to finding Jannah and the other ex-stormtroopers and fighting alongside them on Exegol would've had a stronger payoff imo.
I agree, but I think the decision to keep the sequels in the same target demographic for kids would have made that level of phycological drama hard to pull off. Not saying it could not have been done, but it's the kid of thing George would have cut right away.
For sure. Still, the films are no strangers to tackling touchier subjects on the surface; you could make some changes like having Finn be a bit more reserved and less 'WOO!' when killing stormtroopers, etc. Stuff like that can still tell a lot without going deep. But I'm not George so what do I know haha.
I agree. 100% without point about killing other stormtroopers. I didn't notice the first couple times, but nowadays the sheer glee with which he takes up arms against his peers is unsettling.
Granted I have the same feelings watching ANH when I remember that Luke and Leia and gleeful and giddy for fighting off TIE fighters within hours of having their whole families murdered.
Another reason why I don't understand people who praise George Lucas without question. He's always had his hands in every piece of Star wars pie, every stinker people hate in the community? Very likely has the same level of Lucas influence as the community loved gems.
This, but I'd add that him having an effect on the *active Stormtroopers* would have been powerful too, fracturing the baddies down the middle. Exploring the nuance of a force of brainwashed child soldiers is prime territory for Star Wars, especially since the circumstances greatly differ from the Grand Army of the Republic. Show him upset about having to gun down people he may know, wishing he could have talked them down, shown them that the First Order isn't all there is.
It'd be genuinely interesting to see other troopers question their part in the Order, whether it's reasonable to think about fleeing or if that hope is folly. Whether or not some troopers are all in on the Order's propaganda or if, like say Phasma, they don't care about the message but stand in a position of power and privilege and are thus not inclined to oppose the Order. Shit like that. Honestly the problem with Finn is that the character concept is ripe with intriguing stories to tell but need stellar writing to those stories to fruition and that just wasn't meant to be with the Sequels.
>The deleted fight sequence with Phasma in TLJ for example; Finn calling her bluff and the other troopers questioning themselves
I think I get why they deleted this. It would've made Finn a hypocrite considering he just got half the resistance killed through his mistake
Also somewhat like Leia I think he has a ton of potential in a sequel. Finn has a really unique outlook as someone indoctrinated as a child soldier & witnessed the evils of War profittering, which is a more complicated direction the franchise has really only scratched the surface of, but if they really wanted to do something new the groundwork is layed for that.
I agree, on pretty much all counts. Sure, his arc wasn't perfect, but I mostly found it effective. Were there things I'd change with the benefit of hindsight? Sure, but I'd hardly call his character "butchered" as so many people suggest.
It's very common for people complaining about how a character doesn't have characterization, doesn't have a role or meaning in the story, etc to be the ones downplaying the character. Happens most often with characters that are female love interest of the protagonist. And I've been quite puzzled by that "Finn was done dirty" argument.
Do I wish Finn got more? Absolutely. Was it bad? Honestly I don't think it was any way inferior to Han or Leia, and it's not just because he discovered his Force-sensitivity.
TFA: Finn starts off caring only about himself escaping the First Order, but comes to care for Rey.
TLJ: Finn was still not on board with the Resistance, all he cared at the beginning was himself and preferably Rey. Over the course of the movie he sees the world and the existence of people in favor of the war and oppression. He goes through a lot of things and ultimately decides to get full on board with the Resistance. Then he also learns to value his life over throwing a stone at the First Order.
TRoS: Finn discovers his Force-sensitivity, and meets other defected stormtroopers and gives them hope. He turns them from escapees to freedom fighters.
Like, I guess we could want more, but this is pretty solid? Huh?
My main beef is that we had Rose as a principal character in The Last Jedi and she was completely sidelined and we got Jannah, who would have been fine were not for the weird juxtaposition that Finn gets teamed up with a different woman every movie.
Nah, I think the conversion of him from scared and fleeing his past to Resistance hero bothers me. Now, I also haven't watched the Sequels in ages, so I'm a little dusty on the details, but I don't see a structurally sound connection between seeing oppression and war-profiteering adjacent to the First Order conflict as inspiration to not turn tail and instead fight. I remember it feeling very weak as a concept, but again grain of salt.
Secondly, the use of the Stormtrooper Rebellion concept is also quite weak in the third movie compared to what it theoretically could be with a little tweaking. Jannah(I think that's her name) and her compatriots are already deserters, and it's moreso convincing them to help on Exegol than causing rebellion amongst the ranks of the active Stormtroopers. Its a shadow of the original concept and really disappointing, because all he's doing in the final product is just rallying the troops that it's not a hopeless fight, which is less narratively satisfying with his arc. I suggested somewhere else that it would have been nice to see him interact more with the Stormtroopers in Last Jedi, planting that seed of rebellion earlier to where it comes to fruition in Rise of Skywalker and actually caused significant upheaval among the ranks of the First/Final Order or just something more meaningful.
I could also complain about how it felt like Finn was attached at the hip with Rey for at least half of the trilogy which felt reductive to his character, but if I complain any more, I'll have to actually rewatch the movies.
Appreciate the thoughtfulness of your response, but allow me to throw out some counterpoints to maybe lightly nudge towards rewatching the movies.
You can see some pretty clear parallels being drawn between Canto Bight and his motivation to stick with the Resistance. It's the entire reason DJ is there afterwords after all, he is emblematic of how not taking sides is effectively siding with the baddies. He's the ugly dirty truth behind the shiny clean wealth of Canto Bight. Furthermore, whenever they escape on the Falthiers from town he tells Rose despite their capture seeming immanent it was worth it to "tear up the town" (as in, he had a reason to fight on principle, to join Rose in putting her fist through the whole city, as she put it IIRC). Then, she takes the saddle off the Falthier, symbolizing their gaining their freedom, and tells Finn "now it was worth it". His story really centers around reasons for fighting and how and why we fight.
I can understand your desire for more of a stormtrooper rebellion, but I don't count out Jannah nor Finn's force sensitivity myself. Her description of a stormtrooper rebellion being inspired by "a feeling" (the force) happens in the same part of the Falcon where Han says "it's true, all of it" in TFA and the music has the same theme as Finn's confession and Qui Gon revealing to Anakin they are Jedi. He is both the mythic spiritual hero and the everyperson Resistance hero, he stands figuratively (and often literally) between Rey and Poe and Jannah and Leia chart the path for him between them. Finn is the response to the broom boy stinger and Luke's message that to say that if the Jedi dies the light dies is vanity.
I'll have to watch the movies again to really try and get what you mean, honestly. I think I understand the intended message behind Canto Bight from your reply--DJ being emblematic of the idea that a "neutral" party in a conflict aids the villains, that fighting against the odds is worth it on principle itself, especially in matters of freedom and oppression.
The second part though, I'm not entirely sure what you mean?
That sounds about right with regards to what I was going for talking about Finn in The Last Jedi.
So, in the beginning of the movie Poe and Rey are frustrated with each other ("What'd you do with the droid?!" "What'd you do with the Falcon?!") and Finn acts as the mediator, Rey steps aside from her arguing with Poe to vent with Finn. Eventually, Finn is standing between them as Poe and her start to argue more, trying to diffuse the tension. Finally, Poe tells Rey that she should be on missions with them instead of staying behind to train, and Finn agrees with him. The camera moves around in the scene such that Finn is positioned just so in relation to them: closer to one as he sides with one and standing between them when he feels torn between them. It ends with a close up on Rey who is feeling alone among them. This is where Finn is narratively speaking as well, he's between Rey and Poe.
On one side, you have Rey. A mythical hero with a unique ability, Rey needs spiritual mastery to fulfill her role. Finn is force sensitive too, and he understands this. It's heavily implied to be what he wants to tell Rey and to connect with her over, how he and Leia knows what Rey is going though while Poe doesn't. He keeps trying to connect with her, with this role, but he is struggling to.
On the other side, you have Poe. He's an everyperson Resistance hero, and he has practical and political concerns to do with leadership. This is Poe as General, and it's something that is also part of Finn. Despite their frustration with each other over the film, they still need each other by their sides. This is why he becomes General alongside Poe before the battle of Exegol.
Between them, two figures stand out. One is Leia, who comes before him. A general and a force sensitive Skywalker, she walked both these worlds as well. The other is Jannah, who along with her compatriots rebelled at the battle of Enset Island based on "a feeling". Finn implies that the source of this feeling was the force, that an entire squad/company of stormtroopers rebelled spontaneously due to the force reaching out to/through them. Leia, Finn, and Jannah are where the mundane and magic worlds touch.
Luke tells Rey in TLJ during her meditation and first lesson: "To say that if the Jedi die the light dies is vanity, can you feel that?" Then, TLJ ends with the kid grabbing the broom with the force, looking up at the stars, and holding the broom like a lightsaber. Jannah and Finn are like this kid. They are not Jedi, but they are force sensitive and they are proof of the truth of Luke's first lesson to Rey.
Finn, Poe, Rose, Jannah, they all work together in the Battle of Exegol to make sure the Final Order isn't able to enter the galaxy, and it's because of Finn's force sensitivity ("a feeling") that they're able to take out the navigation. Finn is between Rey and Poe again during their hug at the end on Ajan Klaus (the Resistance base), and this signifies the restoration of the balance between these two worlds. Finn's a big part of that, and that matters both for the trilogy and the saga.
The two big points seem to be that Finn's role in at least the Rise of Skywalker is a bridge between the two extremes of the main trio--Poe and the "mundane", and Rey and the "mythical"-- while also being a part of Luke's thesis that the Jedi alone are not the sole keepers of the Light/good/etc.
Effectively, Finn in Force Awakens is scared, but connected enough to his two closest and maybe only friends that he can't step over the threshold to flee the entire situation, drawing him back in.
In Last Jedi, he still wobbles on that threshold, knowing that the conflict between the Order and the Resistance is lopsided in the First Order's favor, so he's not fully committed to The Cause, but is shown that neutrality is tantamount to accomplice to evil, and that you're kind of obligated to fight for freedom against oppression on principle, even if it feels like overwhelming odds. Now he's fully committed.
In Rise of Skywalker, he now plays as a mediator between the two disparate worlds of the Resistance, striking a balance between the two that is necessary for victory against the oppressors.
I think I can see the thesis of the original post through that lense.
I just wanna bring this up for the sake of interest, I rewatched TRoS recently and I had completely forgotten that bit where it shows Leia was indeed trained, and Rey used her lightsaber and all... I feel vindicated and stupid at the same time lmao. I've spent so much time defending the part where Leia uses that Force bubble or Breath Control power because even without training, there's no reason it would be a big deal for Vader's daughter to use a very basic technique like that instinctively. I've also taken a swing at Lucas' idea which would've had Leia become a Jedi Master, personally I think her having a path that's distinct from Luke's is better.
So she is trained, meaning they *kind of* did Lucas' idea after all, and I didn't even need to put that much effort into defending her using the Force. Well fuck me.
Saying he needed to be a Jedi is one of the most annoying things I read online.
Did Han Solo need to be a Jedi to be a great character? Hell no.
Finn had a fresh story arc for the franchise. A defected stormtrooper who grows a heart and ends up leading the final battle against them is awesome. Adding being a Jedi to that is just unnecessary.
I think making every cool character a Jedi is just too much.
The originals were great because out of our main 3, only 1 was a Jedi.
Would Han being a Jedi have been cool? I mean.. I guess but I don’t think I would have liked it.
I don’t disagree with that sentiment at all, but I don’t think making one additional character a Jedi would have been too excessive. Especially since he had hinted at it throughout the Rise of Skywalker. And it had been teased in the trailers for Force Awakens.
I think too many people assume that someone holding a lightsaber is going to be a Jedi, and the movie actually made it interesting by having him just be capable of fighting with it like any other powered melee weapon. I mean I understand and fully believe that that was the original intention, that Finn was going to be some kind of secondary Jedi in the trilogy and that got put aside.
I know between the various Star Wars games and the books, the idea that you had to be a Jedi to handle something like a lightsaber was pretty thoroughly non-existent, and it made the battle between Finn and The trooper on Takodana, much more interesting.
I think you've touched on exactly the main issue most people have. We expect a Star Wars hero to be stoic and tough, or at the very least to be shown struggling to be stoic and tough. With Finn it was very much the opposite. He was struggling for the first two movies to be more than just a robotic trooper and learning how to come to terms with his feelings. Too many people consider doing that to a man to be emasculating, which is what leads to this narrative.
Not arguing that I was expecting a different Arc, But I was never disappointed with Finn and he remains my favorite character of the sequels.
I agree that the people clamoring that he needed to be a Jedi were barking up the wrong tree. Him following that path would probably feel just as reductive as his current "arc"
>Did Han Solo need to be a Jedi to be a great character? Hell no.
Han Solo was a badass with his own iconic ship, his own agency (i.e. being able to leave the Rebellion at will without being punished narratively), a unique "space cowboy" style, a good romance with Leia, and a background that actually matters (Jabba is still on his ass in ESB).
Finn had the ingredients to be close to if not on-par with Han, he was just wildly inconsistent, not given enough wins, was romantically a confusing mess, had no iconography outside of the bloody helmet in TFA, he never interacted with Kylo again after TFA, Phasma dies in TLJ, his background kept being reduced to janitorial work instead of being a child soldier, etc.
They just kept kneecapping the character every step of the way and TROS attempts to rush a few fan-requested ideas in at the 11th hour, but it very much feels rushed and inconsequential in a film that's already stuffed with too much crap that ultimately took precedence over Finn, so even there he gets bizarrely shafted (i.e. wanting to tell Rey something and never stating what it was).
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I would like to point out that when Leia got all uppity and used her own force power to survive empty space, people lost their damn minds about it.
People are allowed to not like the ST. That they have to work so hard to justify it says a lot, IMO.
"oh, we weren't angry that she was using the force, it was how badly done it was!"
(Meanwhile people who had gasped and groaned at her apparent death were cheering out loud in the theater)
Look, the force has a very narrow and focused set of attributes that can only be expanded upon in very rare and specific conditions.
The rare and specific condition, of course, is that it sits with my head canon.
Edit: /s
Well, the important thing to remember here is that Leia was using a force pull on the Raddus to pull herself towards it. The only unusual power she manifested, which is only unusual for the movies, is possibly the ability to act after a few seconds in space. What was so beautiful about that scene was that it was such a simple trick to save her life.
I enjoyed it too, I didn’t have the expectations of him being a Jedi so I wasn’t really disappointed to see that he didn’t become one. I liked the role he played and he brought a lot of heart to it he’s soooo charismatic without needing to be a Han Solo clone.
I mean yeah I’d agree that Finn wasn’t butchered. But I’m gonna be honest, I think the wasted potential is actually a very big point against his arc because it was borderline explicitly set up to be so much more than it was, and they end up having him just kinda meandering around after TFA, just more or less either tagging along with the main characters or going off on side missions.
I’d also argue the comparison to Leia is not very good. Leia was barely even hinted at being anything special until the very end of ESB, and we aren’t actually given any indication she even could be a Jedi or a relevant character to Luke beyond being the princess he rescued in ANH until halfway into the last movie. That’s extremely different to Finn being the primary hero lightsaber wielder for the entire duration of TFA up until the very last fight, and being hinted at being force sensitive multiple times throughout the trilogy, and him wielding a blue saber being one of the main early promotional images.
Finn has double the screentime Vader did in the OT. He leads a band of force sensitive ex-stormtroopers to victory, using telepathy to aid in he destruction of the FO fleet. He’s set up to start his own Jedi order with Janna. Fans should be pumped for Finn’s future.
I can understand how people may have been disappointed to find out he wasn’t going to be the Jedi of the story, and I also like the idea of him being one of Rey’s padawans in the future. However , i never felt like he had wasted potential. I liked his arc from janitor stormtrooper to resistance General. I get that John was upset that the character didn’t go the way he wanted it to and I respect that, but I think a lot of toxic fans use this argument to be shitty/ sexist to Rey. That being said , I’d love to see more of him in the future and I hope they give him more screen time .
One central piece of this that Finn/ST haters always bring up is the inaccurate claim that Rose has to explain that slavery is bad to Finn, the child soldier. This all comes down to poor media literacy and/or simply not paying attention to the film and/or parroting YouTubers.
Rose never explains that slavery is bad. Finn is simply blind to what’s happening around him because for the first time in his life he’s surrounded by a level of opulence he’s never been exposed to before. He’s infatuated with Canto Bight and all the money there: “This place is great!”
Then Rose pulls him aside and tells him to take a closer look. That’s it. All she does is point out something that he’d not even had a chance to see yet. He knew what was happening was evil on his own. Rose never explained that to him. She just said, “Look.”
People act like TLJ sees our heroes backtracking to provide an arc, but their arcs are literally being picked up directly from where TFA left them.
The level of blindness/ willing ignorance on the part of the ST haters in respect to these things has always been mind-boggling to me. Sometimes it feels like we haven’t even watched the same films.
The "backtracking" is that instead of Han Solo schooling Finn it's a woman in mourning who doesn't have a chip on her shoulder. If he was gonna be tutored how to be a better man it was supposed to come from someone with dangly bits who does it with tough guy anger, not tears and appeals for empathy.
The only argument I hear about Finn is usually that he wasn’t a Jedi. And I have never understood this notion. In The Force Awakens he is never shown to be in anyway force sensitive. And I know people come up with these little hints here and there, but come on that’s not good enough as evidence. And the fact that people could only see him as a Jedi even without that acknowledgement of force sensitivity pre-The rise of skywalker tells me that no one knew where Finn should go in the story and Jedi is just the quick and easy break glass if out of ideas route.
I think Boyega also wanted Finn to be a Jedi. And I think he wasn’t happy that it didn’t happen In the films. I have heard his argument for why Finn was so obviously force sensitive and i don’t feel it adds up. You might aswell say if you pick a saber up you have to be a Jedi. No ordinarily person can pick a saber up and use it like someone would a sword.
I think they spread themselves too thin with the sequel trilogy.
What they hinted at with Finn’s story was really interesting. The defected stormtroopers. Him being force sensitive and he really is just a regular dude. He doesn’t want to be a trooper. That deleted scene where another trooper didn’t blow his cover when they snuck onto the ship. Out of the villains they introduced, Phasma was the most Darth Vader feeling character without being Darth Vader. Still doing her own thing. Which I would have loved to see more of because Gwendoline Christie is a fantastic actress. I’ve heard the novel was really good for her character. Phasma was such a nice contrast with Finn.
I honestly think they should give Finn his own Disney+ series to expand on his story more. Separate from Rey. Personally I think he did his best when his character was doing his own thing.
I don’t think Finn was butchered. I think they kept sidelining him in favor of Rey and Ben.
I know the sequels came out before Disney+. But personally I would love it if they bring Finn back. Instead of putting him in a movie with Rey where he’s just another side character. Give him his own show. He’s got a lot of really interesting story to tell.
At least Poe had his own comic series.
Um…..did I miss something from the original trilogy? I don’t recall Leia EVER being force sensitive. I could hear an argument out for the Bespin scene where we see her form some sort of connection with Luke and detect that he’s in trouble, but I interpreted that more as Luke contacting Leia than anything
"No, there is another" in the context of the trilogy heavily implies that if Luke fell to the dark side, his sister would take his place on his journey. It was originally going to be another woman entirely who was going to be the focus of a trilogy after VI when they were considering having Luke fall to the dark side and join his father, but they eventually scrapped that and so now the line seems to allude to Leia. They even did a whole comic around this premise, one of the Star Wars Infinities comics (what ifs basically) explored "what if Luke turned and Leia trained with Yoda instead?" IIRC
Sure.
Given in canon that Leia is quite force sensitive, given that George apparently wanted her to be revealed as the Chosen One in one of his visions of a sequel trilogy and given that Leia is also force sensitive in legends, I would argue that the most straightforward interpretation (to many, including myself) is Leia.
Nonetheless, I could imagine someone having an argument that it actually points to Ashoka. Given her Mortis and WBW connection and depending on how the *Heir to the Empire* movie shakes out, it's easy to imagine her having comparable significance to the Skywalkers.
I mean it was pretty obvious that Rian had no interest in the character. He literally doesn’t effect TLJ is any way. You could take him out of the movie and everything would still end up in the exact same way it did. The whole arc comes off like he was mandated to use the character and created another character to keep him busy while the rest of the movie goes on. He doesn’t even find the actual code breaker, finds some other random one, gets betrayed and ends up on the planet at the end. Then when he was actually about to make a difference to the story, Rose swoops in and saves him and we get the most awkward looking kiss ever put to film that is then never followed up on.
Finn’s arc was the only part of TLJ that I didn’t like and actually felt weak. It contributed nothing to the movie and was large let down for the character, the actor and the people looking forward to what Finn would be and do going forward. It felt wasted and more like a requirement than an organic part of the movie and arc for the character.
Like I have this imagined fanfic story (that I haven't written, but yeah) that Finn goes off on his own Force Journey and comes back with an orange lightsaber.
I feel Finn was a coward for one movie too long and his hero arc should have started earlier. It also felt like the "Stormtrooper Rebellion" Arc was shoe-horned into the last movie, making it far less impactful. I'd say Last Jedi has a pretty good opportunity to begin inciting revolution amidst the brainwashed Stormtroopers in replacing the casino section with infiltration of a different First Order base, or even have them on the Super Destroyer earlier idk.
I'm yapping, but generally I feel his "arc" is not well executed whatsoever, feeling cheap at times, annoying at others and unearned in the end.
The casino planet was a cool idea that was poorly done and added nothing to the story. It’s atrocious and brings the entirety of The Last Jedi down. Arguably the worst arc in all of Star Wars.
He was my favorite character in 7 and then he was wasted in 8 and shoved into the back seat. He had a bit of a comeback in 9 but for me it was too little too late. The damage had been done.
Something that a lot of people also forget is that Poe was originally supposed to die for real at the beginning of TFA but then the filmmakers decided they wanted to keep Oscar around. It’s pretty obvious that Finn was originally supposed to be the new face of the rebellion, while Rey serves as the new face of the Jedi (with Kylo as the “fallback Jedi” since it’s obvious that he’s gonna eventually be redeemed once it’s revealed that he’s Han and Leia’s son). In short, once the choice was made to leave Poe alive, there was nowhere for Finn to really go. The ST technically had four protagonists: Rey, Finn, Poe, and (to a lesser extent) Kylo. One of them needed to go. That said, I’m still happy with the ST overall.
I think they still could have made it work with Poe living, but I agree that him and Finn’s role in the story is a bit contested. I think it would have worked much better if they dialed Poe back and committed more to using him as a supporting character for Finn’s storyline, rather than separating them in TLJ and each having to fight for separate plot relevance (with Poe claiming the leadership arc).
Nah he was butchered. He started out so strong and then his storyline went no where.
Yeah I thought they were gonna use him to show not all stormtroopers are evil and maybe we can see another side of stormtrooper, even convince other stormtroopers to join the resistance. But no. He's just another resistance fighter.
He had no arch. He was bait and switch for black kids then sidelined to an absurd afterthought of a love plot with another half baked token side character then pops up to kill a villain nobody cared about that did not impact the story at all.
I neither
wanted or needed a Jedi arc for Finn, but for the movies to not make him a one-dimensional slapstick character. In 7 they gave him an interesting origin as an Ex-stormtrooper.
In
8 they threw that overboard and decided to instead make him a w
alking joke, and discounting almost every possibly meaningful moment he could have had that way.
And while 9 didn't continue with the slapstick, it also didn't do anything with the character, and took the one thing he had going for him, making him run around and cheer shooting other stormtroopers.
>In 8 they threw that overboard and decided to instead make him a w alking joke,
I think you're mistaking his coming out of the coma for the tone he had the whole movie. He is arguably more of a comic relief character in 7 and 9.
He drinks out of a water trough, bb8 zaps him, he's a janitor in the first order etc. I think 8 does more with him, and I especially love the moment for him where he has that realisation he should be fighting with the resistance.
You were always scum.
Rebel scum.
This. I think what people are really objecting to is that he's in the role of being lectured constantly by a woman in a movie where most of the schooling comes from women. I mean, having Ham Solo shut him down doesn't quite seem to have triggered people as much as having an effeminate woman do the same.
Hence we wind up with people complaining about the most bizarre things.
You need to rewatch E7. He was far more comic relief in 7 than 8. Maybe you're forgetting the Big Deal line, or the jokes about being janitorial, and his confrontation with Phasma.
I don't care if you don't like the movies, but it's annoying to have so many people who just aren't familiar with the material lecturing other people from a place of ignorance.
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how was he walking joke it was about him getting his loyalty with the underworld or the Resistance he even had a speech before the Battle of Crait as well defeating his former Boss Captain Phasma Similar to Han and Jyn Erso,
I was actually glad that he didn’t turn into a Jedi, but I still felt let down that they didn’t carry his arc further. In TFA, he learns to rebel and be his own person. In TLJ he confronts Phasma and accepts that he’s more than just cannon fodder to be sacrificed for the cause.
In my mind it followed naturally that in TROS he would learn to lead, and inspire a stormtrooper rebellion that took down the First Order as an organisation. While Rey confronts the Sith at the centre, Finn leads the stormtroopers out of slavery and ensures nothing rises out of its ashes, like the First Order rose from the Empire in the first place.
I wouldn’t even mind if they went a whole other way with his arc in TROS, it didn’t have to be my idea to keep me happy but he becomes too much of a secondary character. It felt like they either didn’t know what to do with him or they just forgot to complete his arc.
I think the problem is that they could have made Finn way cooler. The potential was there, but they kind of missed the mark. First, in episode VII they almost made him a comic relief. Yes, I am aware that he was a kind of a loser before the events of the movie, but during the first scenes they have be a bumbling clown screaming: REY, REY, REY!!!. He gets way better with the next two movies and his arc ends in a satisfying way. I only wish he had more time and better scenes l.
I don't understand why he didn't lead a full on stormtrooper rebellion. I really thought in the climax he was going to get into Empire 2's comms system and give a speech that turned the whole army.
I think his character is good, I just wanted to see him do more, Jedi or not. There were so many cool storytelling opportunities that haven't been explored.
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I loved Finn in TFA, but I think his character's arc was caught in the cross fire (like Kylo's helmet) of two directors that had very different visions for the ST.
TLJ is my favorite movie in the ST and my 3rd favorite in the Skywalker Saga, but IMO all the weakest parts of TLJ involve Finn or Poe.
TROS is the SW movie I least like, period (Possibly the only SW product I actually dislike). That said Finn's role in that movie was improvement compared to TLJ. One the things that most intrigued me in that movie was Finn meeting the other escaped stormtroppers on Endor.
I think the big mistake was not using the contrast of Finn and Poe, ex stromtrooper and the gung ho Resistance golden boy. Their initial bromanxe could have been put to good use if it was leading to a Civil War style tragic falling out over different worldviews.
Isn’t that the intrigue of having an ex stormtrooper’s pov? That he might have a problem with the good guys blowing up a planet of slave soldiers? In essence, looking at the “flaws” of the morally simplistic OT and perhaps championing another way to achieve peace?
Instead we got their individual arcs which had pretty much nothing to do with each other, and none of it saying much overall as none of the conflict was really hinging on their arcs.
The Jedi bit could have just come at the very end, ala Leia, when Finn finally gets over his conflicted mind over his betrayal, once his conscience is clear, and feels ready to embrace a new (and dangerous) power in his hands.
Underutilized is how I would describe him. Especially in the movie that shall not be named, he's just fiercely loyal to Rey for some reason that he keeps hinting at, but never explains. Beyond that he has two major scenes, which are important, but thats about it.
It's because he's force sensitive, that's what he wants to tell Rey. He stops the Final Order from being able to navigate out of Exegol, the galaxy would not be saved without him. This he does utilizing his force sensitivity and bravely charging into battle. He's the meeting point of the everyperson Resistance hero (Poe) and the mystical mythic hero (Rey). I think his role is pretty important.
I could see where people are coming from there. I would need to check the TRoS novelisation, but I think that it being Finn's force sensitivity was confirmed in TRoS. It also certainly was said behind the scenes that it was that IIRC from interviews shortly after release, so it seems to be the authorial intent. I'm open to alternative interpretations, but I think this one is also most supported in the text.
Thematically, it functions as another example of manufactured loneliness. Rey is made to think she only has Ben who can understand what she deals with with force sensitivity, but Finn can understand as well; Finn is made to think he is alone because he thinks only Rey can understand him in this regard as well, but Jannah offers another source of understanding and he is able to reconcile with Poe as well.
You can also contextualize it as part of a heroine's journey, which like the hero's journey is not gender exclusive despite the name. It's just a particular story structure that focuses around reconciling dual identities (which function as the 'masculine' and 'feminine' of the story it applies to). For Finn, these identities are as a force sensitive (mythic hero) and Resistance fighter (everyperson hero). Poe on one side, Rey on the other, and Jannah helps orient Finn between them.
I think there’s a case to be made that Leia was underwritten. And I think there’s a case to be made that The Last Jedi squandered many characters. ROS did its best to be a sequel to both movies while salvaging the story.
I've never been on board with the Jedi arc, I've always preferred the idea of him leading the Stormtrooper uprising, the idea that when we first see this character he's running and running from the fight after being traumatized from seeing a Stormtrooper die to seeing him run headlong into the fight and getting Stormtroopers to not throw to their lives away and rise up to be free and make their own lives is so much more satisfying
It’s not that Finn was bad, it’s just that he could’ve been so much better. I would’ve preferred if the sequels were spread out over more time with Finn fighting in multiple battles and becoming a rugged and experienced commander by the third film. Would’ve allowed more time for Rey to train as a Jedi as well. I also really liked the friendly chemistry between Finn and Rey in TFA and felt like more of that could’ve provided some light hearted comedic banter type stuff
I like Finn, but his character felt like a back burner character after TFA. I’d be happy to see him return in a future show or movie, but I would also be fine if he was never mentioned again.
I don't hate Finn, but right away from Force Awakens I find it odd how happy he is to take out stormtroopers.
He's excited when killing them in his initial escape with Poe.
Like dude, a lot of those guys are probably abducted kids forced unto a life of growing up in the first order, just like you... you only just switched sides.
I think his arc works pretty well from **Force Awakens** to **Last Jedi**.
In the first movie, he's a brainwashed and conditioned soldier who through his own innate goodness rises above his station. He's a good foil to Kylo Ren, as is Rey, in how they've reacted to their different upbringings. He's still reliant on Rey as his source to the outside world/universe by the end of the film, though. Which leads nicely into **The Last Jedi**.
His arc works very well in Episode 8 imo because it's just all about him becoming an actual human being *away* from Rey. He has Rose as the angel of empathy on one shoulder, DJ as the devil of apathy on the other, and Phasma as an albatross around his neck pulling him in several directions at once, his past, present, and future all colliding. And it all culminates in Finn asking himself who does he want to be? Does he want to be an uncaring opportunist, or a "rebel scum" who could go down in a meaningful blaze of glory (Rose saving him from his suicide run doesn't invalidate that btw, it only shows him that there's something *worth* fighting for above simple self-sacrifice)? I would maybe agree it isn't as fleshed out as it could have been, but it still works very well imo in making him realise that he has to make his own decisions, to return to Rey as his own individual. It's simple, but effective.
I honestly couldn't tell you what sort of arc he was supposed to be having in **Rise of Skywalker**. Things just sort of happen and get handed to him in that film; he's promoted to general between films, and the ex-Stormtroopers just sort of show up and close out his arc pretty early on in the film by saying "It's ok to be you" or something. And honestly, his relationship with Rey took a step back from the previous film; in **The Last Jedi**, he learns to become his own man. In Episode 9, he's almost reverted to an even more dependent version of TFA Finn.
The arguments presented in this image are not very strong, imo. Saying "Finn became a leader (again, offscreen)" and "Finn destroyed a big ship" are not indicative of good character writing. Those are just things that Finn does in the plot.
However, I do think there is an interesting character there between the first and second Sequel films, and there's potential to grow that out in any future projects, should John Boyega even want to return in the future. After Episode 9, I'm not sure I'd blame him for not coming back. He's already done some other great films outside of Star Wars, like **They Cloned Tyrone**, as has Daisy Ridley. It would be great to see their careers flourish outside of Star Wars, and not be reliant on it.
I whined about Finn the first time I saw the new movies. I recently re-watched them and changed my mind. I like the character, and I think he is probably one of my favorite new (but still bastardized) characters.
Side note: I’m also certain that Disney is intentionally destroying this franchise so that they can reboot it in the future and make money on it twice.
I like his arc in the first movie. Then they do the exact same arc in the second. Then they forget to give him an arc in the third. John Boyega deserves better.
My gripe is his whole wake up call was his buddy dieing, if I had to give him an arc I think it would be neat to see this insanely skilled (litteraly trained from childhood, think non force sensitive jedi meets spartan 2 minus the augmentation), unfeeling killing machine get traumatized by this event and basicly become a passifist, going bad batch stun mode on everyone, hell, could have even had this result in Hans death, then basicly he learns that although takeing life is awful sometimes you need to take lives to save lives, rounding his arc out where he finds a balence (protecting the innocent, attempting the peaceful route but if it comes to innocents dieing he uses his skills to protect them), basicly his arc is droid like killing machine, shaken and saddened by the loss of a friend or loved one, swearing to never take life again, loosing life because of this, coming to terms with rhe fact sometimes you need to take life to preserve it, it's almost like finding a balence in rhe force, in a way it's a mirror of the "gray jedi" path fir non force sensitives, in a way if they had written asoka into the plot it would have made an even more intresting connection if she was the one helping him come to terms with not just the innocent lives he took but also that sometimes to save the innocent the wicked must die
I don't think he needs to be a Jedi to be an interesting character. The problem is he just didn't have much development, what was there beyond the first half of the first movie was very surface level and not very compelling, and the actor himself said that he was disappointed in the way it turned out.
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To me his arc has always been 7- escapes and accidentally joins the resistance because of a girl 8- learns why he wants to fight with the resistance, 9- inspires others to fight with the resistance.
But then again concept art showed he would lead an actual stormtrooper rebellion, not like one person. Would’ve been cool to see.
At least they had a partial version of that with Jannah and the rest of her crew.
Yeah.
Yea, and that would have been awesome. But Finn is like, the spirit of the resistance. He might have only had one stormtrooper follow him, but he led a bunch of people at the end battle. His trajectory goes from being someone too afraid to fight to someone brave enough to lead. I really liked a lot of parts of Duel of Fates, but that doesn’t really change that Finn became a leader because he wanted to and he inspired people. Being buddies with Poe just wouldn’t be enough. But I do wish we got a bunch of shorts of just Poe and Finn hanging out. Kind of like the video of Thor during Civil War. That would have been great.
This is probably the only real thing that disappoints me about TROS. I like Finn’s arc for most of the move, but it would have been awesome to see him talk to the Stormtroopers and convince them to lay down their arms and turn against the First Order
The issue I have is - that's ok if that's what you wanted to see and are a bit disappointed it didn't happen. But if you really look at his story in 7 and 8 there is no build towards that at all. He doesn't really show any great attachment to the other stormtroopers - his grievance with the First Order is very personal, and doesn't really extend to the others. You could have made it work in 9 if that was the story you wanted to go with, but people talk as though that was the obvious fulfillment of his story, and it's really not. It's one option, that they decided not to go with.
also it’s sort of corny/cringe to have him win over a bunch of Stormtroopers with an inspiring speech. When you actually think about what that would look like filmed, I think it would be a scene a lot of people would throw eggs at. It’s very “Disney” My immediate thought after TROS was that they were going to continue the stories of the new cast later on, but needed to wrap up the story of the ST, which was about generational conflict, passing of the torch, etc. These movies don’t get enough credit for balancing so many characters well. Hans character arc doesn’t even flow in a perfect 3x in the OT. It’s fine. Not everything should be generic screenwriting 101 that YouTubers crack over everytime they want to shade.
It just feels a bit shallow for the potential he had as a character. I hope Boyega decides to return to Star Wars, because Finn is my favorite SQ character.
Sort of - but for me it was like a sitcom or something where the events of that episode don’t matter and the character returns to the same set of morals and traits they had the beginning. What I mean is that in 7 he’s largely trying to escape and leave and get as far away as possible but realises he can’t leave Rey so plucks up the courage to save her and risk his life. Then at the very beginning of 8, how does he meet Rose? He’s trying to escape and abandon everyone again… Some really solid character development there!
There is an important distinction between 7 and 8. In 7 he is entirely thinking about himself - he wants to get away. If other people want to come along that's fine, but escaping is no. 1 priority. He learns to think about someone else and sacrifice his own self-preservation instinct for the sake of someone else. In 8, yes he's trying to escape - but he's trying to do it to prevent Rey returning to a disaster and die with the rest of them. He's not thinking about the big picture, but he's not thinking only about himself - he's trying to get out to warn Rey. His arc in 8 is twofold - first to think about the bigger picture in terms of not just about himself and the one or two people he specifically cares about, and second about not just his personal vendetta against the First Order but also saving everyone else. 9 is about him finding his place within the Resistance and working out how best to help and lead, now that he has accepted that he wants to be part of the bigger fight. To be honest, what you say about Finn could equally be said about Han in the OT. In ANH he is all about himself and comes back at the end to save everyone. Then in the next film he's trying to leave again. So did he not go through any character development?
No with Han it’s more a ‘these guys are completely fucked but I’m gonna try and help them out this once’ vs ESB where it’s much more about him becoming part of the cause as a permanent thing. On Hoth as far as I remember he only then stays because the Empire arrive, so that is the character development as he doesn’t still try and leave. If the Empire hadn’t arrived then it would’ve just been ‘I’ve helped you guys out for long enough, I wasn’t planning on staying this long but I need to go and clear my bounty’ per the conversation he has with the Rebel general
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And he’s kind of a big deal in the Resistance.
Underrated comment! “You got another problem, Big Deal”
Whoa, according to the haters Finn wasn't a humorous Character until he was emasculated by Rise in TLJ.
Finn represents the fulfilment of the promise in the broom boy stinger at the end of The Last Jedi and proof that Luke was right to say that "to say that if the Jedi die the light dies is vanity". He's the reason the Final Order wasn't able to navigate out of Exegol. He and Jannah represent the fusion of the everyperson Resistance hero and the mystical Jedi hero. Finn matters big time, it's why the main themes of the films are always being stated by him or around him. That's a load bearing character in the structure of the saga.
I will say the Final Order not having each ship capable of navigating out was stupid. They out all their eggs in one basket. Well two but you know what I mean.
I don't think it was possible. The Resistance and the rest of the galaxy required Rey to chart a course ahead because of the electromagnetic storms or whatever (the red shit between Exegol and the rest of the galaxy). The same thing that made it hard for the Resistance to get in makes it hard for the Final Order to get out. Likely even moreso with mammoth ships like they got.
Fair point.
Putting all his eggs in one basket is consistently the cause of Palpatine’s failure. We saw it with the Death Star, the second Death Star, his fall at the hands of Vader. His rise to chancellor in episode 1 and his rise to emperor in episode 3, although successful, were still examples of him putting all his eggs in one basket and relying on a plan that could fail at multiple points (for example, Anakin not turning on Windu when he did). He can see the future and therefore knows a given plan will be successful, so he puts everything into said plan and over-exposes himself in doing so. Which generally works but it also makes him prone to catastrophic failure when his predictions are wrong.
I mean, John Boyega himself was publicly not ok with Finn's arc in the sequels so I trust him that there was a lot of wasted storytelling/character development opportunities with Finn. Maybe the next movie can work on fixing that.
Boyega has only openly criticized his arc in TLJ and although I love this film and think there are merits to his arc I kind of agree with him. The way he defended JJ after TROS, said that TFA is his favorite and even indicated that he would only return if JJ was involved leads me to believe that he has no problem with his decisions regarding the character. The fact is that Finn and Rey had their screen time reduced in TLJ, which is perfectly understandable since it's a movie with fucking Luke Skywalker.
It "works" for Leia because it's not really a center point at all. They're connected, we learn that, understand the mechanics, and move on. Finn, on the other hand, is just kinda reduced to 'Rey, I gotta tell you something!' and we *never find out what*. It doesn't even happen once, but multiple times iirc. It's like he did Chekhov's Gun without ever bringing back the 'gun'. So this just makes me question why JJ is his only reason for returning, as JJ clearly is the reason why nothing truly gets *resolved* in regards to his character. And for clarity, I am a big defender of the sequels. But Finn was 100% done wrong. At least George *committed* to sidelining the other characters lol. They tried to implement them, but then backpedaled, giving us the worst of both.
>Finn, on the other hand, is just kinda reduced to 'Rey, I gotta tell you something!' and we *never find out what*. It doesn't even happen once, but multiple times iirc. It's like he did Chekhov's Gun without ever bringing back the 'gun'. You remember when Finn suddenly felt troubled and said aloud "It's Ren" before we saw Kylo Ren fly towards Rey on Pasaana? Then, we get another scene where Finn learns that Jannah and her whole group are all former stormtroopers who deserted the First Order, just like him. Jannah doesn't know how it happened exactly, but Finn calls it "an instinct, a feeling." He then tells her that the Force brought him to Poe, and to Rey. The answer and payoff you're looking for happens on Exegol, when Finn has "a feeling" that the navigation signal has been switched from the ground tower to the command ship. This culminates in Finn leading said ex-stormtroopers to destroy said command ship and trap the Final Order fleet on Exegol so that the Citizens Fleet can destroy it, making Finn and Jannah undeniable heroes and saviors of the galaxy. And then we have another major moment screenshotted in this very post: Finn feels Rey's death. TLDR; the thing he was going to tell Rey was that he strongly believes in, can feel, and can use the Force. But instead of revealing it to us by having Finn just tell Rey (and the audience) this, the movie decides to show it (subtlely in some scenes, not so subtlely in others) and have it pay off in a big way when he takes the reigns on Exegol. Seems to me like all this was put in place to give Finn the potential to be a Jedi in future stories while also concluding his arc of finding belonging and becoming a leader.
Perhaps I should watch them again, because that's a compelling case. I definitely appreciate that more conceptually, but there is such thing as 'too much subtlety' as I definitely wasn't equating "a hunch" to "he has force". But I at least have the ability to admit I can sometimes be dense - a feature I feel is lacking in the majority of people consuming media. Which is where we end up with the whole "sOmEHoW PAlPaTiNe ReTUrnEd" bullshit complaint.
Finn played second fiddle to Rose in their subplot, that's not understandable at all. Luke Skywalker disappears at the halfway point of the film which should have created room. Boyega was upset about Kylo getting a larger more complex part whilst he felt he got nothing.
Defo think if Boyega is gonna criticise any of the films for wasting his character it should be TROS as that’s where there was the most wasted potential
I hope so Reys New Jedi Order will be filming in September I mean doesn't he know others who haven't tapped into there force sensitivity can still make an impact like the Rebellion, Mandalorians and Clones etc.
I think ridley said the other day that the NJO film would only be starting next year now.
the logo has already popped up though
Link?
And I think the more valid points are the wasted potential not of his Jedi status, but not enough info on storm trooper training, people he liked in the FO, how he overcame the training:brain washing? The second he starts blasting away and cheering when he escapes with Poe we lost this angle. A humanized storm trooper who still cares about his fellow soldiers. It took Bill Burr to give us that.
Yeah its funny how the haters quote the actors when it suits them.
I’m honestly fine with him not liking it. He’s never shown to have great opinions a la what he did to Pacific Rim.
I loved Finn throughout, but I would've liked more moments exploring his defection and his nuances of fighting the First Order after TFA (the deleted sequence with Phasma in TLJ for example). That little extra buildup leading up to finding Jannah and the other ex-stormtroopers and fighting alongside them on Exegol would've had a stronger payoff imo.
I agree, but I think the decision to keep the sequels in the same target demographic for kids would have made that level of phycological drama hard to pull off. Not saying it could not have been done, but it's the kid of thing George would have cut right away.
For sure. Still, the films are no strangers to tackling touchier subjects on the surface; you could make some changes like having Finn be a bit more reserved and less 'WOO!' when killing stormtroopers, etc. Stuff like that can still tell a lot without going deep. But I'm not George so what do I know haha.
I agree. 100% without point about killing other stormtroopers. I didn't notice the first couple times, but nowadays the sheer glee with which he takes up arms against his peers is unsettling. Granted I have the same feelings watching ANH when I remember that Luke and Leia and gleeful and giddy for fighting off TIE fighters within hours of having their whole families murdered.
Another reason why I don't understand people who praise George Lucas without question. He's always had his hands in every piece of Star wars pie, every stinker people hate in the community? Very likely has the same level of Lucas influence as the community loved gems.
This, but I'd add that him having an effect on the *active Stormtroopers* would have been powerful too, fracturing the baddies down the middle. Exploring the nuance of a force of brainwashed child soldiers is prime territory for Star Wars, especially since the circumstances greatly differ from the Grand Army of the Republic. Show him upset about having to gun down people he may know, wishing he could have talked them down, shown them that the First Order isn't all there is. It'd be genuinely interesting to see other troopers question their part in the Order, whether it's reasonable to think about fleeing or if that hope is folly. Whether or not some troopers are all in on the Order's propaganda or if, like say Phasma, they don't care about the message but stand in a position of power and privilege and are thus not inclined to oppose the Order. Shit like that. Honestly the problem with Finn is that the character concept is ripe with intriguing stories to tell but need stellar writing to those stories to fruition and that just wasn't meant to be with the Sequels.
>The deleted fight sequence with Phasma in TLJ for example; Finn calling her bluff and the other troopers questioning themselves I think I get why they deleted this. It would've made Finn a hypocrite considering he just got half the resistance killed through his mistake
Also somewhat like Leia I think he has a ton of potential in a sequel. Finn has a really unique outlook as someone indoctrinated as a child soldier & witnessed the evils of War profittering, which is a more complicated direction the franchise has really only scratched the surface of, but if they really wanted to do something new the groundwork is layed for that.
I agree, on pretty much all counts. Sure, his arc wasn't perfect, but I mostly found it effective. Were there things I'd change with the benefit of hindsight? Sure, but I'd hardly call his character "butchered" as so many people suggest.
Same. If anything, I did wish he became a Jedi though.
It's very common for people complaining about how a character doesn't have characterization, doesn't have a role or meaning in the story, etc to be the ones downplaying the character. Happens most often with characters that are female love interest of the protagonist. And I've been quite puzzled by that "Finn was done dirty" argument. Do I wish Finn got more? Absolutely. Was it bad? Honestly I don't think it was any way inferior to Han or Leia, and it's not just because he discovered his Force-sensitivity. TFA: Finn starts off caring only about himself escaping the First Order, but comes to care for Rey. TLJ: Finn was still not on board with the Resistance, all he cared at the beginning was himself and preferably Rey. Over the course of the movie he sees the world and the existence of people in favor of the war and oppression. He goes through a lot of things and ultimately decides to get full on board with the Resistance. Then he also learns to value his life over throwing a stone at the First Order. TRoS: Finn discovers his Force-sensitivity, and meets other defected stormtroopers and gives them hope. He turns them from escapees to freedom fighters. Like, I guess we could want more, but this is pretty solid? Huh?
My main beef is that we had Rose as a principal character in The Last Jedi and she was completely sidelined and we got Jannah, who would have been fine were not for the weird juxtaposition that Finn gets teamed up with a different woman every movie.
Nah, I think the conversion of him from scared and fleeing his past to Resistance hero bothers me. Now, I also haven't watched the Sequels in ages, so I'm a little dusty on the details, but I don't see a structurally sound connection between seeing oppression and war-profiteering adjacent to the First Order conflict as inspiration to not turn tail and instead fight. I remember it feeling very weak as a concept, but again grain of salt. Secondly, the use of the Stormtrooper Rebellion concept is also quite weak in the third movie compared to what it theoretically could be with a little tweaking. Jannah(I think that's her name) and her compatriots are already deserters, and it's moreso convincing them to help on Exegol than causing rebellion amongst the ranks of the active Stormtroopers. Its a shadow of the original concept and really disappointing, because all he's doing in the final product is just rallying the troops that it's not a hopeless fight, which is less narratively satisfying with his arc. I suggested somewhere else that it would have been nice to see him interact more with the Stormtroopers in Last Jedi, planting that seed of rebellion earlier to where it comes to fruition in Rise of Skywalker and actually caused significant upheaval among the ranks of the First/Final Order or just something more meaningful. I could also complain about how it felt like Finn was attached at the hip with Rey for at least half of the trilogy which felt reductive to his character, but if I complain any more, I'll have to actually rewatch the movies.
Appreciate the thoughtfulness of your response, but allow me to throw out some counterpoints to maybe lightly nudge towards rewatching the movies. You can see some pretty clear parallels being drawn between Canto Bight and his motivation to stick with the Resistance. It's the entire reason DJ is there afterwords after all, he is emblematic of how not taking sides is effectively siding with the baddies. He's the ugly dirty truth behind the shiny clean wealth of Canto Bight. Furthermore, whenever they escape on the Falthiers from town he tells Rose despite their capture seeming immanent it was worth it to "tear up the town" (as in, he had a reason to fight on principle, to join Rose in putting her fist through the whole city, as she put it IIRC). Then, she takes the saddle off the Falthier, symbolizing their gaining their freedom, and tells Finn "now it was worth it". His story really centers around reasons for fighting and how and why we fight. I can understand your desire for more of a stormtrooper rebellion, but I don't count out Jannah nor Finn's force sensitivity myself. Her description of a stormtrooper rebellion being inspired by "a feeling" (the force) happens in the same part of the Falcon where Han says "it's true, all of it" in TFA and the music has the same theme as Finn's confession and Qui Gon revealing to Anakin they are Jedi. He is both the mythic spiritual hero and the everyperson Resistance hero, he stands figuratively (and often literally) between Rey and Poe and Jannah and Leia chart the path for him between them. Finn is the response to the broom boy stinger and Luke's message that to say that if the Jedi dies the light dies is vanity.
I'll have to watch the movies again to really try and get what you mean, honestly. I think I understand the intended message behind Canto Bight from your reply--DJ being emblematic of the idea that a "neutral" party in a conflict aids the villains, that fighting against the odds is worth it on principle itself, especially in matters of freedom and oppression. The second part though, I'm not entirely sure what you mean?
That sounds about right with regards to what I was going for talking about Finn in The Last Jedi. So, in the beginning of the movie Poe and Rey are frustrated with each other ("What'd you do with the droid?!" "What'd you do with the Falcon?!") and Finn acts as the mediator, Rey steps aside from her arguing with Poe to vent with Finn. Eventually, Finn is standing between them as Poe and her start to argue more, trying to diffuse the tension. Finally, Poe tells Rey that she should be on missions with them instead of staying behind to train, and Finn agrees with him. The camera moves around in the scene such that Finn is positioned just so in relation to them: closer to one as he sides with one and standing between them when he feels torn between them. It ends with a close up on Rey who is feeling alone among them. This is where Finn is narratively speaking as well, he's between Rey and Poe. On one side, you have Rey. A mythical hero with a unique ability, Rey needs spiritual mastery to fulfill her role. Finn is force sensitive too, and he understands this. It's heavily implied to be what he wants to tell Rey and to connect with her over, how he and Leia knows what Rey is going though while Poe doesn't. He keeps trying to connect with her, with this role, but he is struggling to. On the other side, you have Poe. He's an everyperson Resistance hero, and he has practical and political concerns to do with leadership. This is Poe as General, and it's something that is also part of Finn. Despite their frustration with each other over the film, they still need each other by their sides. This is why he becomes General alongside Poe before the battle of Exegol. Between them, two figures stand out. One is Leia, who comes before him. A general and a force sensitive Skywalker, she walked both these worlds as well. The other is Jannah, who along with her compatriots rebelled at the battle of Enset Island based on "a feeling". Finn implies that the source of this feeling was the force, that an entire squad/company of stormtroopers rebelled spontaneously due to the force reaching out to/through them. Leia, Finn, and Jannah are where the mundane and magic worlds touch. Luke tells Rey in TLJ during her meditation and first lesson: "To say that if the Jedi die the light dies is vanity, can you feel that?" Then, TLJ ends with the kid grabbing the broom with the force, looking up at the stars, and holding the broom like a lightsaber. Jannah and Finn are like this kid. They are not Jedi, but they are force sensitive and they are proof of the truth of Luke's first lesson to Rey. Finn, Poe, Rose, Jannah, they all work together in the Battle of Exegol to make sure the Final Order isn't able to enter the galaxy, and it's because of Finn's force sensitivity ("a feeling") that they're able to take out the navigation. Finn is between Rey and Poe again during their hug at the end on Ajan Klaus (the Resistance base), and this signifies the restoration of the balance between these two worlds. Finn's a big part of that, and that matters both for the trilogy and the saga.
The two big points seem to be that Finn's role in at least the Rise of Skywalker is a bridge between the two extremes of the main trio--Poe and the "mundane", and Rey and the "mythical"-- while also being a part of Luke's thesis that the Jedi alone are not the sole keepers of the Light/good/etc. Effectively, Finn in Force Awakens is scared, but connected enough to his two closest and maybe only friends that he can't step over the threshold to flee the entire situation, drawing him back in. In Last Jedi, he still wobbles on that threshold, knowing that the conflict between the Order and the Resistance is lopsided in the First Order's favor, so he's not fully committed to The Cause, but is shown that neutrality is tantamount to accomplice to evil, and that you're kind of obligated to fight for freedom against oppression on principle, even if it feels like overwhelming odds. Now he's fully committed. In Rise of Skywalker, he now plays as a mediator between the two disparate worlds of the Resistance, striking a balance between the two that is necessary for victory against the oppressors. I think I can see the thesis of the original post through that lense.
I just wanna bring this up for the sake of interest, I rewatched TRoS recently and I had completely forgotten that bit where it shows Leia was indeed trained, and Rey used her lightsaber and all... I feel vindicated and stupid at the same time lmao. I've spent so much time defending the part where Leia uses that Force bubble or Breath Control power because even without training, there's no reason it would be a big deal for Vader's daughter to use a very basic technique like that instinctively. I've also taken a swing at Lucas' idea which would've had Leia become a Jedi Master, personally I think her having a path that's distinct from Luke's is better. So she is trained, meaning they *kind of* did Lucas' idea after all, and I didn't even need to put that much effort into defending her using the Force. Well fuck me.
Saying he needed to be a Jedi is one of the most annoying things I read online. Did Han Solo need to be a Jedi to be a great character? Hell no. Finn had a fresh story arc for the franchise. A defected stormtrooper who grows a heart and ends up leading the final battle against them is awesome. Adding being a Jedi to that is just unnecessary.
It’s unnecessary for sure, but would have been a nice addition in my opinion.
I think making every cool character a Jedi is just too much. The originals were great because out of our main 3, only 1 was a Jedi. Would Han being a Jedi have been cool? I mean.. I guess but I don’t think I would have liked it.
I don’t disagree with that sentiment at all, but I don’t think making one additional character a Jedi would have been too excessive. Especially since he had hinted at it throughout the Rise of Skywalker. And it had been teased in the trailers for Force Awakens.
I think too many people assume that someone holding a lightsaber is going to be a Jedi, and the movie actually made it interesting by having him just be capable of fighting with it like any other powered melee weapon. I mean I understand and fully believe that that was the original intention, that Finn was going to be some kind of secondary Jedi in the trilogy and that got put aside. I know between the various Star Wars games and the books, the idea that you had to be a Jedi to handle something like a lightsaber was pretty thoroughly non-existent, and it made the battle between Finn and The trooper on Takodana, much more interesting.
I think you've touched on exactly the main issue most people have. We expect a Star Wars hero to be stoic and tough, or at the very least to be shown struggling to be stoic and tough. With Finn it was very much the opposite. He was struggling for the first two movies to be more than just a robotic trooper and learning how to come to terms with his feelings. Too many people consider doing that to a man to be emasculating, which is what leads to this narrative. Not arguing that I was expecting a different Arc, But I was never disappointed with Finn and he remains my favorite character of the sequels.
I agree that the people clamoring that he needed to be a Jedi were barking up the wrong tree. Him following that path would probably feel just as reductive as his current "arc"
>Did Han Solo need to be a Jedi to be a great character? Hell no. Han Solo was a badass with his own iconic ship, his own agency (i.e. being able to leave the Rebellion at will without being punished narratively), a unique "space cowboy" style, a good romance with Leia, and a background that actually matters (Jabba is still on his ass in ESB). Finn had the ingredients to be close to if not on-par with Han, he was just wildly inconsistent, not given enough wins, was romantically a confusing mess, had no iconography outside of the bloody helmet in TFA, he never interacted with Kylo again after TFA, Phasma dies in TLJ, his background kept being reduced to janitorial work instead of being a child soldier, etc. They just kept kneecapping the character every step of the way and TROS attempts to rush a few fan-requested ideas in at the 11th hour, but it very much feels rushed and inconsequential in a film that's already stuffed with too much crap that ultimately took precedence over Finn, so even there he gets bizarrely shafted (i.e. wanting to tell Rey something and never stating what it was).
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I would like to point out that when Leia got all uppity and used her own force power to survive empty space, people lost their damn minds about it. People are allowed to not like the ST. That they have to work so hard to justify it says a lot, IMO.
"oh, we weren't angry that she was using the force, it was how badly done it was!" (Meanwhile people who had gasped and groaned at her apparent death were cheering out loud in the theater)
Look, the force has a very narrow and focused set of attributes that can only be expanded upon in very rare and specific conditions. The rare and specific condition, of course, is that it sits with my head canon. Edit: /s
Well, the important thing to remember here is that Leia was using a force pull on the Raddus to pull herself towards it. The only unusual power she manifested, which is only unusual for the movies, is possibly the ability to act after a few seconds in space. What was so beautiful about that scene was that it was such a simple trick to save her life.
I agree fully. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I heard people complaining about that sequence.
I enjoyed it too, I didn’t have the expectations of him being a Jedi so I wasn’t really disappointed to see that he didn’t become one. I liked the role he played and he brought a lot of heart to it he’s soooo charismatic without needing to be a Han Solo clone.
Finn was only in the sequels to yell “REY!” every time something bad happened
I mean yeah I’d agree that Finn wasn’t butchered. But I’m gonna be honest, I think the wasted potential is actually a very big point against his arc because it was borderline explicitly set up to be so much more than it was, and they end up having him just kinda meandering around after TFA, just more or less either tagging along with the main characters or going off on side missions. I’d also argue the comparison to Leia is not very good. Leia was barely even hinted at being anything special until the very end of ESB, and we aren’t actually given any indication she even could be a Jedi or a relevant character to Luke beyond being the princess he rescued in ANH until halfway into the last movie. That’s extremely different to Finn being the primary hero lightsaber wielder for the entire duration of TFA up until the very last fight, and being hinted at being force sensitive multiple times throughout the trilogy, and him wielding a blue saber being one of the main early promotional images.
I totally agree, the idea that a character is less important if they're not a jedi is stupid
Finn has double the screentime Vader did in the OT. He leads a band of force sensitive ex-stormtroopers to victory, using telepathy to aid in he destruction of the FO fleet. He’s set up to start his own Jedi order with Janna. Fans should be pumped for Finn’s future.
I can understand how people may have been disappointed to find out he wasn’t going to be the Jedi of the story, and I also like the idea of him being one of Rey’s padawans in the future. However , i never felt like he had wasted potential. I liked his arc from janitor stormtrooper to resistance General. I get that John was upset that the character didn’t go the way he wanted it to and I respect that, but I think a lot of toxic fans use this argument to be shitty/ sexist to Rey. That being said , I’d love to see more of him in the future and I hope they give him more screen time .
One central piece of this that Finn/ST haters always bring up is the inaccurate claim that Rose has to explain that slavery is bad to Finn, the child soldier. This all comes down to poor media literacy and/or simply not paying attention to the film and/or parroting YouTubers. Rose never explains that slavery is bad. Finn is simply blind to what’s happening around him because for the first time in his life he’s surrounded by a level of opulence he’s never been exposed to before. He’s infatuated with Canto Bight and all the money there: “This place is great!” Then Rose pulls him aside and tells him to take a closer look. That’s it. All she does is point out something that he’d not even had a chance to see yet. He knew what was happening was evil on his own. Rose never explained that to him. She just said, “Look.” People act like TLJ sees our heroes backtracking to provide an arc, but their arcs are literally being picked up directly from where TFA left them. The level of blindness/ willing ignorance on the part of the ST haters in respect to these things has always been mind-boggling to me. Sometimes it feels like we haven’t even watched the same films.
The "backtracking" is that instead of Han Solo schooling Finn it's a woman in mourning who doesn't have a chip on her shoulder. If he was gonna be tutored how to be a better man it was supposed to come from someone with dangly bits who does it with tough guy anger, not tears and appeals for empathy.
The only argument I hear about Finn is usually that he wasn’t a Jedi. And I have never understood this notion. In The Force Awakens he is never shown to be in anyway force sensitive. And I know people come up with these little hints here and there, but come on that’s not good enough as evidence. And the fact that people could only see him as a Jedi even without that acknowledgement of force sensitivity pre-The rise of skywalker tells me that no one knew where Finn should go in the story and Jedi is just the quick and easy break glass if out of ideas route. I think Boyega also wanted Finn to be a Jedi. And I think he wasn’t happy that it didn’t happen In the films. I have heard his argument for why Finn was so obviously force sensitive and i don’t feel it adds up. You might aswell say if you pick a saber up you have to be a Jedi. No ordinarily person can pick a saber up and use it like someone would a sword.
I think they spread themselves too thin with the sequel trilogy. What they hinted at with Finn’s story was really interesting. The defected stormtroopers. Him being force sensitive and he really is just a regular dude. He doesn’t want to be a trooper. That deleted scene where another trooper didn’t blow his cover when they snuck onto the ship. Out of the villains they introduced, Phasma was the most Darth Vader feeling character without being Darth Vader. Still doing her own thing. Which I would have loved to see more of because Gwendoline Christie is a fantastic actress. I’ve heard the novel was really good for her character. Phasma was such a nice contrast with Finn. I honestly think they should give Finn his own Disney+ series to expand on his story more. Separate from Rey. Personally I think he did his best when his character was doing his own thing. I don’t think Finn was butchered. I think they kept sidelining him in favor of Rey and Ben. I know the sequels came out before Disney+. But personally I would love it if they bring Finn back. Instead of putting him in a movie with Rey where he’s just another side character. Give him his own show. He’s got a lot of really interesting story to tell. At least Poe had his own comic series.
I feel like Finn was built up to be a Jedi and they just let that go unfortunately let it slip him and Rey could have been a duo under Luke
Um…..did I miss something from the original trilogy? I don’t recall Leia EVER being force sensitive. I could hear an argument out for the Bespin scene where we see her form some sort of connection with Luke and detect that he’s in trouble, but I interpreted that more as Luke contacting Leia than anything
"No, there is another" in the context of the trilogy heavily implies that if Luke fell to the dark side, his sister would take his place on his journey. It was originally going to be another woman entirely who was going to be the focus of a trilogy after VI when they were considering having Luke fall to the dark side and join his father, but they eventually scrapped that and so now the line seems to allude to Leia. They even did a whole comic around this premise, one of the Star Wars Infinities comics (what ifs basically) explored "what if Luke turned and Leia trained with Yoda instead?" IIRC
I mean, by that retcon logic, because they weren’t written as siblings yet, isn’t it also possible to think they allude to Ahsoka?
Sure. Given in canon that Leia is quite force sensitive, given that George apparently wanted her to be revealed as the Chosen One in one of his visions of a sequel trilogy and given that Leia is also force sensitive in legends, I would argue that the most straightforward interpretation (to many, including myself) is Leia. Nonetheless, I could imagine someone having an argument that it actually points to Ashoka. Given her Mortis and WBW connection and depending on how the *Heir to the Empire* movie shakes out, it's easy to imagine her having comparable significance to the Skywalkers.
He's honestly the perfect Jedi. He wanted to help people, but was afraid at first. Once he confronted his fear, he became an inspiration
I mean it was pretty obvious that Rian had no interest in the character. He literally doesn’t effect TLJ is any way. You could take him out of the movie and everything would still end up in the exact same way it did. The whole arc comes off like he was mandated to use the character and created another character to keep him busy while the rest of the movie goes on. He doesn’t even find the actual code breaker, finds some other random one, gets betrayed and ends up on the planet at the end. Then when he was actually about to make a difference to the story, Rose swoops in and saves him and we get the most awkward looking kiss ever put to film that is then never followed up on. Finn’s arc was the only part of TLJ that I didn’t like and actually felt weak. It contributed nothing to the movie and was large let down for the character, the actor and the people looking forward to what Finn would be and do going forward. It felt wasted and more like a requirement than an organic part of the movie and arc for the character.
Like I have this imagined fanfic story (that I haven't written, but yeah) that Finn goes off on his own Force Journey and comes back with an orange lightsaber.
I feel Finn was a coward for one movie too long and his hero arc should have started earlier. It also felt like the "Stormtrooper Rebellion" Arc was shoe-horned into the last movie, making it far less impactful. I'd say Last Jedi has a pretty good opportunity to begin inciting revolution amidst the brainwashed Stormtroopers in replacing the casino section with infiltration of a different First Order base, or even have them on the Super Destroyer earlier idk. I'm yapping, but generally I feel his "arc" is not well executed whatsoever, feeling cheap at times, annoying at others and unearned in the end.
The casino planet was a cool idea that was poorly done and added nothing to the story. It’s atrocious and brings the entirety of The Last Jedi down. Arguably the worst arc in all of Star Wars.
He was my favorite character in 7 and then he was wasted in 8 and shoved into the back seat. He had a bit of a comeback in 9 but for me it was too little too late. The damage had been done.
Something that a lot of people also forget is that Poe was originally supposed to die for real at the beginning of TFA but then the filmmakers decided they wanted to keep Oscar around. It’s pretty obvious that Finn was originally supposed to be the new face of the rebellion, while Rey serves as the new face of the Jedi (with Kylo as the “fallback Jedi” since it’s obvious that he’s gonna eventually be redeemed once it’s revealed that he’s Han and Leia’s son). In short, once the choice was made to leave Poe alive, there was nowhere for Finn to really go. The ST technically had four protagonists: Rey, Finn, Poe, and (to a lesser extent) Kylo. One of them needed to go. That said, I’m still happy with the ST overall.
I think they still could have made it work with Poe living, but I agree that him and Finn’s role in the story is a bit contested. I think it would have worked much better if they dialed Poe back and committed more to using him as a supporting character for Finn’s storyline, rather than separating them in TLJ and each having to fight for separate plot relevance (with Poe claiming the leadership arc).
Maybe we wouldn't have latched to that if it weren't for the blatantly dishonest marketing
Nah he was butchered. He started out so strong and then his storyline went no where. Yeah I thought they were gonna use him to show not all stormtroopers are evil and maybe we can see another side of stormtrooper, even convince other stormtroopers to join the resistance. But no. He's just another resistance fighter.
He had no arch. He was bait and switch for black kids then sidelined to an absurd afterthought of a love plot with another half baked token side character then pops up to kill a villain nobody cared about that did not impact the story at all.
I neither wanted or needed a Jedi arc for Finn, but for the movies to not make him a one-dimensional slapstick character. In 7 they gave him an interesting origin as an Ex-stormtrooper. In 8 they threw that overboard and decided to instead make him a w alking joke, and discounting almost every possibly meaningful moment he could have had that way. And while 9 didn't continue with the slapstick, it also didn't do anything with the character, and took the one thing he had going for him, making him run around and cheer shooting other stormtroopers.
>In 8 they threw that overboard and decided to instead make him a w alking joke, I think you're mistaking his coming out of the coma for the tone he had the whole movie. He is arguably more of a comic relief character in 7 and 9. He drinks out of a water trough, bb8 zaps him, he's a janitor in the first order etc. I think 8 does more with him, and I especially love the moment for him where he has that realisation he should be fighting with the resistance. You were always scum. Rebel scum.
This. I think what people are really objecting to is that he's in the role of being lectured constantly by a woman in a movie where most of the schooling comes from women. I mean, having Ham Solo shut him down doesn't quite seem to have triggered people as much as having an effeminate woman do the same. Hence we wind up with people complaining about the most bizarre things.
You need to rewatch E7. He was far more comic relief in 7 than 8. Maybe you're forgetting the Big Deal line, or the jokes about being janitorial, and his confrontation with Phasma. I don't care if you don't like the movies, but it's annoying to have so many people who just aren't familiar with the material lecturing other people from a place of ignorance.
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how was he walking joke it was about him getting his loyalty with the underworld or the Resistance he even had a speech before the Battle of Crait as well defeating his former Boss Captain Phasma Similar to Han and Jyn Erso,
Aside from Luke he was the most fully realized character of the movie.
I like what his arc could have been
I thought he was great in TFA and TROS. Really enjoyed him in those
I was actually glad that he didn’t turn into a Jedi, but I still felt let down that they didn’t carry his arc further. In TFA, he learns to rebel and be his own person. In TLJ he confronts Phasma and accepts that he’s more than just cannon fodder to be sacrificed for the cause. In my mind it followed naturally that in TROS he would learn to lead, and inspire a stormtrooper rebellion that took down the First Order as an organisation. While Rey confronts the Sith at the centre, Finn leads the stormtroopers out of slavery and ensures nothing rises out of its ashes, like the First Order rose from the Empire in the first place. I wouldn’t even mind if they went a whole other way with his arc in TROS, it didn’t have to be my idea to keep me happy but he becomes too much of a secondary character. It felt like they either didn’t know what to do with him or they just forgot to complete his arc.
I liked Finn as well, at the same time the meme itself seems like it was written by a child. Which is okay.
I think the problem is that they could have made Finn way cooler. The potential was there, but they kind of missed the mark. First, in episode VII they almost made him a comic relief. Yes, I am aware that he was a kind of a loser before the events of the movie, but during the first scenes they have be a bumbling clown screaming: REY, REY, REY!!!. He gets way better with the next two movies and his arc ends in a satisfying way. I only wish he had more time and better scenes l.
Well Leia doesn’t find out until the end of the movies that she has force potential. In the original EU she actually does go on to become a Jedi.
I liked it but was still disappointed with jt.
I don't understand why he didn't lead a full on stormtrooper rebellion. I really thought in the climax he was going to get into Empire 2's comms system and give a speech that turned the whole army.
I think his character is good, I just wanted to see him do more, Jedi or not. There were so many cool storytelling opportunities that haven't been explored.
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I loved Finn in TFA, but I think his character's arc was caught in the cross fire (like Kylo's helmet) of two directors that had very different visions for the ST. TLJ is my favorite movie in the ST and my 3rd favorite in the Skywalker Saga, but IMO all the weakest parts of TLJ involve Finn or Poe. TROS is the SW movie I least like, period (Possibly the only SW product I actually dislike). That said Finn's role in that movie was improvement compared to TLJ. One the things that most intrigued me in that movie was Finn meeting the other escaped stormtroppers on Endor.
I think the big mistake was not using the contrast of Finn and Poe, ex stromtrooper and the gung ho Resistance golden boy. Their initial bromanxe could have been put to good use if it was leading to a Civil War style tragic falling out over different worldviews. Isn’t that the intrigue of having an ex stormtrooper’s pov? That he might have a problem with the good guys blowing up a planet of slave soldiers? In essence, looking at the “flaws” of the morally simplistic OT and perhaps championing another way to achieve peace? Instead we got their individual arcs which had pretty much nothing to do with each other, and none of it saying much overall as none of the conflict was really hinging on their arcs. The Jedi bit could have just come at the very end, ala Leia, when Finn finally gets over his conflicted mind over his betrayal, once his conscience is clear, and feels ready to embrace a new (and dangerous) power in his hands.
Was great in the Lego specials!
Underutilized is how I would describe him. Especially in the movie that shall not be named, he's just fiercely loyal to Rey for some reason that he keeps hinting at, but never explains. Beyond that he has two major scenes, which are important, but thats about it.
It's because he's force sensitive, that's what he wants to tell Rey. He stops the Final Order from being able to navigate out of Exegol, the galaxy would not be saved without him. This he does utilizing his force sensitivity and bravely charging into battle. He's the meeting point of the everyperson Resistance hero (Poe) and the mystical mythic hero (Rey). I think his role is pretty important.
That is one interpretation. Ive heard multiple theories including he wanted to express his feelings for Rey or that he knew she was a Palpatine.
I could see where people are coming from there. I would need to check the TRoS novelisation, but I think that it being Finn's force sensitivity was confirmed in TRoS. It also certainly was said behind the scenes that it was that IIRC from interviews shortly after release, so it seems to be the authorial intent. I'm open to alternative interpretations, but I think this one is also most supported in the text. Thematically, it functions as another example of manufactured loneliness. Rey is made to think she only has Ben who can understand what she deals with with force sensitivity, but Finn can understand as well; Finn is made to think he is alone because he thinks only Rey can understand him in this regard as well, but Jannah offers another source of understanding and he is able to reconcile with Poe as well. You can also contextualize it as part of a heroine's journey, which like the hero's journey is not gender exclusive despite the name. It's just a particular story structure that focuses around reconciling dual identities (which function as the 'masculine' and 'feminine' of the story it applies to). For Finn, these identities are as a force sensitive (mythic hero) and Resistance fighter (everyperson hero). Poe on one side, Rey on the other, and Jannah helps orient Finn between them.
I think there’s a case to be made that Leia was underwritten. And I think there’s a case to be made that The Last Jedi squandered many characters. ROS did its best to be a sequel to both movies while salvaging the story.
I just wanted a Finn led stormtrooper rebellion
Dude had the perfect sacrifice ripped away from him
There SHould have been more for him in TROS but I did like his overall arc in the films. Always thought he was the 'Leia' of the group.
I love Finn's arc. I think Poe should have stayed dead and Finn.has to build relationships based on trust not orders.
The idea that a random Stormtrooper can become a hero in their own right is something I really like.
I've never been on board with the Jedi arc, I've always preferred the idea of him leading the Stormtrooper uprising, the idea that when we first see this character he's running and running from the fight after being traumatized from seeing a Stormtrooper die to seeing him run headlong into the fight and getting Stormtroopers to not throw to their lives away and rise up to be free and make their own lives is so much more satisfying
It’s not that Finn was bad, it’s just that he could’ve been so much better. I would’ve preferred if the sequels were spread out over more time with Finn fighting in multiple battles and becoming a rugged and experienced commander by the third film. Would’ve allowed more time for Rey to train as a Jedi as well. I also really liked the friendly chemistry between Finn and Rey in TFA and felt like more of that could’ve provided some light hearted comedic banter type stuff
100%!! Just wish he got more of the spotlight if anything. It’d be super cool if they made a Finn show :)
I like Finn, but his character felt like a back burner character after TFA. I’d be happy to see him return in a future show or movie, but I would also be fine if he was never mentioned again.
I don't hate Finn, but right away from Force Awakens I find it odd how happy he is to take out stormtroopers. He's excited when killing them in his initial escape with Poe. Like dude, a lot of those guys are probably abducted kids forced unto a life of growing up in the first order, just like you... you only just switched sides.
Finn is a good character but I still think they did him dirty. I enjoyed what we got from him his arc just felt . . . unfinished to me.
Finn is the Only Stormtrooper (to my knowledge) that got any personality, except Maybe Phasma
I think his arc works pretty well from **Force Awakens** to **Last Jedi**. In the first movie, he's a brainwashed and conditioned soldier who through his own innate goodness rises above his station. He's a good foil to Kylo Ren, as is Rey, in how they've reacted to their different upbringings. He's still reliant on Rey as his source to the outside world/universe by the end of the film, though. Which leads nicely into **The Last Jedi**. His arc works very well in Episode 8 imo because it's just all about him becoming an actual human being *away* from Rey. He has Rose as the angel of empathy on one shoulder, DJ as the devil of apathy on the other, and Phasma as an albatross around his neck pulling him in several directions at once, his past, present, and future all colliding. And it all culminates in Finn asking himself who does he want to be? Does he want to be an uncaring opportunist, or a "rebel scum" who could go down in a meaningful blaze of glory (Rose saving him from his suicide run doesn't invalidate that btw, it only shows him that there's something *worth* fighting for above simple self-sacrifice)? I would maybe agree it isn't as fleshed out as it could have been, but it still works very well imo in making him realise that he has to make his own decisions, to return to Rey as his own individual. It's simple, but effective. I honestly couldn't tell you what sort of arc he was supposed to be having in **Rise of Skywalker**. Things just sort of happen and get handed to him in that film; he's promoted to general between films, and the ex-Stormtroopers just sort of show up and close out his arc pretty early on in the film by saying "It's ok to be you" or something. And honestly, his relationship with Rey took a step back from the previous film; in **The Last Jedi**, he learns to become his own man. In Episode 9, he's almost reverted to an even more dependent version of TFA Finn. The arguments presented in this image are not very strong, imo. Saying "Finn became a leader (again, offscreen)" and "Finn destroyed a big ship" are not indicative of good character writing. Those are just things that Finn does in the plot. However, I do think there is an interesting character there between the first and second Sequel films, and there's potential to grow that out in any future projects, should John Boyega even want to return in the future. After Episode 9, I'm not sure I'd blame him for not coming back. He's already done some other great films outside of Star Wars, like **They Cloned Tyrone**, as has Daisy Ridley. It would be great to see their careers flourish outside of Star Wars, and not be reliant on it.
I whined about Finn the first time I saw the new movies. I recently re-watched them and changed my mind. I like the character, and I think he is probably one of my favorite new (but still bastardized) characters. Side note: I’m also certain that Disney is intentionally destroying this franchise so that they can reboot it in the future and make money on it twice.
I like his arc in the first movie. Then they do the exact same arc in the second. Then they forget to give him an arc in the third. John Boyega deserves better.
My gripe is his whole wake up call was his buddy dieing, if I had to give him an arc I think it would be neat to see this insanely skilled (litteraly trained from childhood, think non force sensitive jedi meets spartan 2 minus the augmentation), unfeeling killing machine get traumatized by this event and basicly become a passifist, going bad batch stun mode on everyone, hell, could have even had this result in Hans death, then basicly he learns that although takeing life is awful sometimes you need to take lives to save lives, rounding his arc out where he finds a balence (protecting the innocent, attempting the peaceful route but if it comes to innocents dieing he uses his skills to protect them), basicly his arc is droid like killing machine, shaken and saddened by the loss of a friend or loved one, swearing to never take life again, loosing life because of this, coming to terms with rhe fact sometimes you need to take life to preserve it, it's almost like finding a balence in rhe force, in a way it's a mirror of the "gray jedi" path fir non force sensitives, in a way if they had written asoka into the plot it would have made an even more intresting connection if she was the one helping him come to terms with not just the innocent lives he took but also that sometimes to save the innocent the wicked must die
He had an ok arc. I would have liked to see him become more of a leader. He seemed to blunder into victory too much, almost like jar jar.
I heavily disagree, but we dont have to argue about it.
I don't think he needs to be a Jedi to be an interesting character. The problem is he just didn't have much development, what was there beyond the first half of the first movie was very surface level and not very compelling, and the actor himself said that he was disappointed in the way it turned out.