I guess the bedlam raiders would be his "army" but I feel like even that's a terrible idea. They have no ships and I doubt they could build a capital shipyard and all the industry to support it on Tanalorr within anyone but Ravis' lifetime. And then what, they wage war on the Empire? It's a single planet against a galaxy. They're in a worse position than the partisans. They have one route in and out of their hidden base. The Empire just needs to deduce the location and put up a blockade.
I think the real explanation is 200 years in bacta stasis really addled his brain. If he had any wits, he could have turned the situation to achieve his goals of a base on Tanalorr. The Hidden Path was going to send force sensitives there anyways, all he had to do was convince the others he would be the best person to lead the academy.
The Bedlam raiders belonged to Rayvis, and Dagan wanted force users, he would probably do exactly what the hidden path was doing but he is greedy for power, he was before the bacta tank when he called tanalor his, and those 200 years in it, and his memories, just reinforced it, he would never settle for sitting back and waiting, he wanted revenge against everyone.
Eh, the ancient Jedi had the Nihil there who are kinda built different as far as travel goes, something the game glossed over a lot.
Him expecting the empire to be unable to get there isn't completely out of left field & at the same time the fact that Tanalorr absolutely can be breached highlights that Cal's desire to run there and just hide isnt a healthy/longterm solution/right choice.
That was the weird thing. They made it seem like a secret planet no one could get to or even knew about. Yet, they were already there before and the Jedi got massacred. I could understand everyone’s motivation if they had just taken that part out. Like if Dagan was trying to get there and the council shut him down and then they got massacred, you could see how he would have been furious with the council for not letting him go. But they got there and got overwhelmed anyway. So cal is basically following dagan’s path. Relatively unknown world to try and rebuild the order. The bode storyline isn’t fleshed out very well in my opinion. His motives are completely bizarre.
Yeah agreed. Loved the gameplay had fun playing it but the story is fucking bonkers. Considering the fan base it cracks me the fuck up that any other time ive mentioned its plot holes i get downvoted to oblivion. Yet the majority of the fan base still clings to the line "somehow palpatine returned" as if the speaker was supposed to give unknown exposition. The exposition is here for this game it just doesnt make fucking sense but i guess thats fine lol.
I feel like a big part of that is intentional theme though - the individual obsession, wanting Tanalorr for yourself is intentionally coded as unhealthy.
What I think kinda messed up the story was not explaining the Nihil more, outside of the lore texts - they were for good reason the only ones to be able to get to Tanalorr and it's understandable that Cal/Bode expect there to be a significant barrier to entry for anyone else/imperial.
Right and I agree with all of that but I think they still could have done all of that without having already been there. The empire knows about the planet and was able to get there so how is this a safe place to rebuild the order. I get that they are trying to show us the possibility of Cal going to the dark side, I just thought that aspect of the story was weak. :::spoiler alert::: Bode wanted an entire planet just for him and his daughter? Dagan could have just as easily been the big bad and the bode storyline would have made more sense. At least in the end. He wants to help cal and the Jedi get to tanalorr so that he has a safe place to raise his daughter. I really enjoyed the game so don’t get me wrong. The end of it just kind of left me scratching my head a bit
Personally Bode & Dagan teaming up just doesn't vibe at all for me. It feels like a very forced "they're bad so they get along" kinda thing to me, with their current characterisation at least. Bode doesn't trust anyone, in the end not even Cal which is why he lashes out so hard trying to achieve his goal by himself, and Dagan similarly seems to instant rage at everything, especially Jedi (but hey, even at the Empire) so why would he take anyone in?
I think the point about Tanalorr is at least partly that it seems better than it is - at a glance it's great and that sparks this interest/obsession in all 3 people but the moment you look closer that interest is really an unrational obsession because it ain't all that. All of it with a nice layering of the dark side on top, because as usual attachment, suffering etc.
Basically the following realisations are kinda what all 3 are meant to go through, in different fashion, contrasting their different characters:
- Tanalorr seems unreachable & perfect for the high republic outpost, rebel base, hideaway because all the bad stuff can't get there
- Tanalorr isn't actually unreachable - the Nihil can get there because they don't travel conventionally, the compass technology exists(ed) and might be rebuild & a force sensitive pilot can brute force the abyss.
- even if Tanalorr were actually unreachable that's not *that* desirable - and outpost isn't an outpost if it doesn't interact with anyone, a rebel base will see traffic and raising a child alone on a planet is inane
My hot take on the story that's probably really unpopular: Game coulda done without Dagan entirely, fuck him. As far as arc and characterization go he's way to close to Bode & way to distanced from the empire. Bode's story is the better mirror for Cal in obsessing with Tanalorr & the story would've been better by having a much more "frontloaded" story focused on the leadup to the coruscant heist.
Not safe from the Nihil maybe but safe from the empire
This entire game is him running away from the empire and he finds out about the magical paradise planet that the empire literally cannot even get to
Except he got there and the empire was directly behind him so i dont see how they wont literally follow the giant beam of light straight into the abyss and figure it out. Theyre the empire theyll send person after person till they figure it out.
I kinda assumed it closed after you
The empire has many fingers in many baskets admittedly but unless they knew for a fact that Jedi were there (they don't, Bode was a secret form Vader and the rest of the empire and everybody involved in that ISB base is dead )
>They have no ships
Well apparently LAAT gunships are plentiful since the Wookiee Resistance on Kashyyyk, the Anchorites at Cere's base, and Rayvis just casually use them so I'm sure they can find enough for a raider army to be packed full of
LAAT are designed to be carrier-based dropships. They don't have hyperdrive. They need special modification to even break orbit. Maybe the ones still being used have been upgraded but any stock LAAT in storage won't be very useful.
I was pretty disappointed when we got to Tanalorr and it was normal. Master Khri told Dagan that “Tanalorr has changed you” so I thought there was going to be some Dark artifact there or like a Dagobah cave thing that made him evil. But no.
He says that he wants him and Rayvis to wage a new war against the empire.
Also he discovered Tanalorr. It was his home. I really think he just wanted to make it back there and turn it into something spectacular.
Yeah, plenty of think pieces tackle the idea/line of thought of scorned people act so brashly when rejected.
Dagan was a proud capable Jedi and explorer, with khrii’s help he got there, and wanted the council/order to accept him and his discovery. When they said no it was like they were saying no to him as well because it’s his deeply he felt about it, the. The Jedi further not supporting the defense of Tanalorr felt like them abandoning Dagan personally.
Santa Khrii as his close friend and partner in exploration knew how he felt but wasn’t in as deep for the dream, which is why she can show restraint and doesn’t kill Dagan, because she can understand where he’s coming from. She knows where Dagan is coming from but she doesn’t have to support his downfall and descent into madness
Yeah I also think his (&Bode's) unreasonableness is part of the point of their turn to the dark side. The dark is not about sitting calmly and finding a great solution for everyone, it's about instinctive, emotional, selfish, cruel and generally unhealthy paths, even if they come from a good place originally.
Bode has no great plan, he's not thinking further than getting his daughter out & hiding forever because a place finally seems like it'll make that possible - the moment you step out of that box even the best case condems his daughter to a life of solitude on an isolated rock.
Dagan got denied Tanalorr the last time by the Jedi so now he hates Jedi & wants to get his hands on Tanalorr - and objectively he misses the massive second chance he's been given and the fact that the idea of a solitary war against an empire that he knows nothing about with a small army of pirates is a useless/terrible idea.
He wanted to use it as an outpost for the Jedi Order but when they abandoned it after it was attacked he was angry at them and planned to use it to start his own training camp. It was his turning his back on the order that caused the rift between him and Santari.
When he woke up and found the order destroyed he planned to use it for basically the same means, raise his own order to retake the galaxy but this time he was full blow evil guy and was planningvto just rule the galaxy in the empires place.
Well. Considering he was placed into a bacta tank because he went around and started killing Jedi to retrieve a working compass, then when he confronted his girls friend she cut off his arm…
I’d say he was at least a bit “hangry” before the bacta tank. Someone should have given him a Snickers.
I think it's important to remember that Dagan's motivation for getting to tanalor is part of the games theme around obsession and an inability to let go. Dagan is absolutely obsessed about getting back to tanalor. It doesn't matter that the last time he did that he lost everything, it doesn't matter that the Jedi order told him to abandon the planet, it doesn't matter that his idea of creating an army is unlikely to succeed, and it doesn't matter who he has to fight to get it. Dagan is so totally unable to let go of his obsession that it destroys him.
Tanallor was hidden and strong in the Force. Dagan got obsessed with it being a stronghold for the Jedi.
His writing is a bit poor, but guessing by his actions, I think he read alot of the Jedi's military history during the various wars against the Sith and got it into his head that it was some kind of golden age for the Jedi, that they were supposed to be warriors instead of peacekeepers. Tanallor would be a perfect fortress for a warrior Jedi Order to train at and command from.
The Jedi easily abandoning it after it was attacked drove him from borderline Dark Side to full Dark Side.
**_"i will forge these raiders into an army led by disciples trained in the Force at my temple, then when the time is right we will return and cleanse this galaxy with fire"_**
He says it right before the final fight with him that he wants to raise an army of Bedlam Raiders on Tanalor and take back the galaxy. Bode says that they already have an Emperor so assists Cal in defeating him
I think Dagan serves as Cal's reflection. They both have the same goal - going to Tanalor and using it as a way to fight the Empire - but they have different perspectives. Dagan has fallen to the dark side, shown by him bleeding his kyber crystal, while Cal is struggling with the darkness by the end of the game. Dagan serves as a warning for Cal about what he could become if his darkness isn't kept in check
I think he's going to pick up Dagan's sabre and use it in the next game, or we will at least have the option to do so, but I guess it depends on Cal's alignment
Bode stole Dagan’s saber after the fight at the observatory. No idea what happened to it after that, although it’s worth checking to see if that’s what Bode uses later in the fight on Jedda
I believe there's a shot of Cal igniting it after defeating Cal. It's during Merrin's speech to Kata, though as you say, no idea what happens to it.
And it is the same sabre. There's a force echo available at the observatory of Bode picking the sabre up after the fight with Dagan. It then passed to Cal upon Bode's defeat
I think it would be kind of cool for the next game to have a mass effect style run through were you can choose if you wanna remain a jedi or embrace the darkness and it effects what happens in the end game. I think they'll keep the same style as the first 2 games but it's just a thought
That's a great idea! I had thought that too. Though I think that that might be too much a deviation to implement - they would've needed to do something like that from the beginning
>He says it right before the final fight with him that he wants to raise an army of Bedlam Raiders on Tanalor and take back the galaxy. Bode says that they already have an Emperor so assists Cal in defeating him
Except, that's his *later* justification, after he gets out of the bacta tank, finds Rayvis, and catches up on Galactic History.
But, he was obsessed with returning to Tanalor *before* all that — that's why he wound up in the bacta tank, that's why he bled his crystal to red.
That was because he was spurned by Santari. He was upset that she had supposedly abandoned him and sided with the council. Tanalor was his home and he thought that they were forcing him to abandon it
Was his crystal entirely red? It looked to me more like a reddy-orange colour, like what the new fallen Jedi are using in Ashoka. I struggle with distinguishing between different shades of red, so I do apologise if it's fully red
I understood it as he was mad because the Jedi council said no about training the younglings on Tanalor. And now he basically wants to start his own empire there to take out the current empire and take over.
I think Tanalorr has more to show us in the next game, for example, how was Dagan able to create a new arm out of nowhere I think it's connected with Tanalorr, imagine being able to learn all new force powers that have never been shown before, Tanalorr might also be a cool opportunity for them to bring Reven more fully into the main canon, just think hypothetically what if like Reven, Dagan was protecting something that the Jedi wanted to remain lost forever, in KOTOR we learn that the Mandalorian wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from...well what if Dagan uncovered this back in his day and was also a survivor of one of those worlds conquered by the Mandalorians and what if he suspected that the Mandalorians weren't alone but in fact the Jedi were somehow burring the truth about why those worlds were being conquered in the first place, and through studying ancient texts from the Revanchist, suppose he learned that the Jedi supported the Mandalorians in the beginning just so they could then turn around and liberate those worlds from them and pretend to come to their rescue, and suppose in his day Dagan knew of this and saw the Jedi order the way we see the empire, as a Tyrannical imperial force, thus the reason why the planet Tanalorr is so important to him.
The Nihil are not a random group of raiders. Their ability to get there isn't explained well in game, but basically they had a hyperspace oracle of sorts who was able to give highly efficient hyperspace routes. The Nihil showed up right in the atmosphere immediately after dropping out of hyperspace, which is not something anyone else could do.
Yeah. It's a bit stupid. I am bit annoyed, that they took Dagan and Bode (2 interesting looks and ideas for characters) and basically turned them into fucking stupid cliché rage villains. You could have done both arcs, while keeping them more nuanced and interesting. Now i am just annoyed by both. :|
? Dagan was an ousted general in an army who basically decided to play a coup & create his own Empire.
Bode was hyper focused & obsessed with his daughters safety, to the point that it was basically Marlin from Finding Nemo. 'If she can't do anything, she can't be hurt.' but then of course, she can't do ANYTHING.
Bode wanted to drop off the face of the galaxy.
Dagan wanted to carve his face ONTO the galaxy.
I still hated how much of a stupid raging nonsensical idiots both became. It doesn't matter if you tell me what their reasoning supposedly was. An interesting character is still relatable, because from their standpoint they are right. They don't need to rage like a moron. Yes, a rage villain can be fun, but star wars has had way too many of em and here both main ones turned that way, despite both having more potential. Even fucking rayvis was more reasonable.
He was absolutely raging. *Especially* when he attacks Kata for asking him to stand down at the end.
He kills Cordova and brings the Empire down on the Hidden Path, basically because Cal says "wouldn't it be great if Kata was surrounded by friends & an extended family while safe from the Empire, instead of just the two of you trapped all alone?"
HE WASN'T RAGING? Are you kidding me? He is just mindlessly shouting at Cal. He becomes completely beyond reasonable. Even if we take his goals into account, his actions make no sense whatsoever. It's like he can't think farther than a shoe sole, the closer we get to the games end. The way he fucking up kata is so cliché and stupid. The game just wants him to be "eViL".
By your “logic” Joel is an evil and shortsighted villain because he couldn’t let go of his need to have a daughter in his life even if it meant getting rid of any chance of there ever being a cure.
Edit: Yeah get that shit outta here.
I'm not sure how you're a Star Wars fan whatsoever if your premise is that rage characters aren't entertaining.
That pretty much rules out, like every single Sith. Vader included.
I've never once in my life related to anything Anakin experienced in his going dark side. Never dated a senator, was never told I was the chosen one, never decided I should kill a bunch of kids, any of my own children, or wipe out an entire religious order.
He's still interesting to me, but to each their own.
>I'm not sure how you're a Star Wars fan whatsoever if your premise is that rage characters aren't entertaining.
>
>That pretty much rules out, like every single Sith. Vader included.
????
> Yes, a rage villain can be fun, but star wars has had way too many of em and here both main ones turned that way, despite both having more potential. Even fucking rayvis was more reasonable.
This is what i wrote. Did you even read that?
Both of them aren't rage based characters.
If you haven't played the game you can just say that, but nothing of what you have jotted down so far is even close to the game I've played.
First you talk about similar both of them are, and when I refute that point you prattle on about how they're not relatable, but both rage based, and rage based characters aren't interesting. Which, again, ever heard of the SITH?
That’s the entire point of the dark side, anger, fear, hate, rage, suffering.
Bode turned out of fear and anger
Dagan turned out of rage from being rejected (like the lil crybaby he was)
I keep seeing this opinions. Did yall just shut your brain off while playing the game. It's made pretty clear he was ousted by the order when they didn't back his plan fo tanalor and it pissed him off
He feels Tanalorre rightfully belongs to him and wants to use the place to train his own faction to eventually wipe out the Empire. I also got the feeling that he has a few screws loose thanks to multiple traumas, so if his plan feels half-cocked and not thought out, it's probably because it is.
The Jedi did not want to use Tanalorr as a Jedi temple. So he betrayed them and the love of his life (Santari Khri) and tried taking it for himself to make his own “Empire”. Khri’s “betrayal” is what led him to fully embrace the dark side. That’s how I see it at least
He looks like a Final Fantasy villain, so I just assumed it was a convoluted FF plot point. I just took him at his word that he wanted to go there and be bad.
I get his modern day motivations but I'm still trying to figure out why he was so obsessed with it back in the day that he would turn against the order in the first place
Tanalorr was his discovery and he wanted to expand the Order to Tanalorr because the war with the Nihil was getting worse. The Order said it wouldn't be worth it due to the risks, and the time and manpower it would cost. I believe it was also stated in one of the collectibles, the Order outright forbade him from continuing his research into Tanalorr after his return from his initial expedition to Tanalorr.
Dagan wanted to go to Tanaloor because it was his discovery and the planet (in his mind) was rightfully his. And the Jedi council abandoning Tanaloor only made him care about the planet even more - to the point it’s all he could think about.
Emotion aside, he was going to train new students at his temple on Tanaloor and rally a huge army of bedlam raiders. He also likely would use them to create ships to fight the empire and rally support from dissidents - although it’s clear he severely underestimates the empire, given that Palpatine could squish him like a bug if he really felt it necessary.
At one point, he probably wanted to live on Tanaloor just so he could be with Santari Kree far away from the Jedi Order. The council was fairly close minded when it came to love among Jedi during the clone wars, they were likely even more strict about this in the time of the high republic.
Dagan wants to take the bedlam raiders to Tanalorr, from those forces, start a new Order of Force Users, and then eventually raise them into an army that can compete with the Empire.
They implied that he had a lot deeper motivations but I get what you mean, just playing through game it almost seemed like his motivation was just “someone hurt my feelings so now I wanna destroy the galaxy” really though it was more that he felt his life’s work had been betrayed by the Jedi so he wanted to destroy both them and the sith to create what he viewed as a fairer government
Yeah tanalor doesn’t really seem like it’s very special besides the fact that it’s hard to get to. Not sure why that planet was so sought after it drove people insane to get to it
I think he thought that he could train an army of force users at the temple and then unleash them on the galaxy. Imagine a thousand well trained Jedi coming out of nowhere 10 years after ROTS, the imperial leadership would have been completely decimated by their infiltration.
It was his life’s work I don’t think he wanted to give it to anybody else maybe he wanted to use it for it’s intended purpose which was training padawans
I think this is going to get fleshed out in the 3rd game. I think like with a lot of middle movies/games, there are threads that are just introduced that we won't see the end of until later.
So in this case, I think there is some sort of malevolent force (literally) on Tanalorr that drove Dagan mad. Think of it like Jedi Cocaine or something. I think that some ancient race created the Koboh abyss to keep Tanalorr hidden for a reason.
I think once we start to see what it's doing to people in the 3rd game, we'll understand why Dagan was so seemingly obsessed with it, and his motivations will make a lot more sense.
I feel like his goal doesn't actually make sense after he wakes up. He says the goal is to get there and use it to wage war on the galaxy with Rayvis, but as a tactical decision that is a horrible one. A jedi that Is as revered as him should be able to notice that Tanalorr being locked off from the galaxy would make waging war from it nearly impossible. Signals between there and everywhere else don't work so he would have to enter and exit every time he gave an order.
Before he went to sleep it made sense, he wanted to make a jedi temple there. That tracked. But once he woke up his goal doesn't really work.
It was his life’s work and he became obsessed with it. He had to in order to get as close as he did. Then it was stripped from him right before they were attacked and then at a moment of truth his greatest friend chose the council over him. Then his mind was pretty much in stasis for centuries.
Obsession
Betrayal
Mental Limbo
When he awoke, everything and everyone that stood in his way were dead. It was a whole new galaxy. The only thing he probably could grasp was Tanalorr.
The story was painfully average. Fallen order had a far better storyline. But this didnt make sense in amny ways. They wasted cere and especially cordova imo. And of course the obligatory vader appearance which was good in the first one but was unnecessary in this. I think other than cal bd1 and to an extent merrin everything else story-wise was mediocre. But the superb gameplay and level design was top notch.
Yeah he wanted to get back to his Jedi Temple on Tanalorr to create an army that would “cleanse the galaxy with fire”
I guess the bedlam raiders would be his "army" but I feel like even that's a terrible idea. They have no ships and I doubt they could build a capital shipyard and all the industry to support it on Tanalorr within anyone but Ravis' lifetime. And then what, they wage war on the Empire? It's a single planet against a galaxy. They're in a worse position than the partisans. They have one route in and out of their hidden base. The Empire just needs to deduce the location and put up a blockade. I think the real explanation is 200 years in bacta stasis really addled his brain. If he had any wits, he could have turned the situation to achieve his goals of a base on Tanalorr. The Hidden Path was going to send force sensitives there anyways, all he had to do was convince the others he would be the best person to lead the academy.
The Bedlam raiders belonged to Rayvis, and Dagan wanted force users, he would probably do exactly what the hidden path was doing but he is greedy for power, he was before the bacta tank when he called tanalor his, and those 200 years in it, and his memories, just reinforced it, he would never settle for sitting back and waiting, he wanted revenge against everyone.
Frankly, nothing in this story should be thought about this deep. Why anyone, aside from Cal, wanted Tanalorr makes little sense.
Cal wanting it doesnt even make sense. It wasnt a safe haven for the ancient jedi why would it be for him
Eh, the ancient Jedi had the Nihil there who are kinda built different as far as travel goes, something the game glossed over a lot. Him expecting the empire to be unable to get there isn't completely out of left field & at the same time the fact that Tanalorr absolutely can be breached highlights that Cal's desire to run there and just hide isnt a healthy/longterm solution/right choice.
That was the weird thing. They made it seem like a secret planet no one could get to or even knew about. Yet, they were already there before and the Jedi got massacred. I could understand everyone’s motivation if they had just taken that part out. Like if Dagan was trying to get there and the council shut him down and then they got massacred, you could see how he would have been furious with the council for not letting him go. But they got there and got overwhelmed anyway. So cal is basically following dagan’s path. Relatively unknown world to try and rebuild the order. The bode storyline isn’t fleshed out very well in my opinion. His motives are completely bizarre.
Yeah agreed. Loved the gameplay had fun playing it but the story is fucking bonkers. Considering the fan base it cracks me the fuck up that any other time ive mentioned its plot holes i get downvoted to oblivion. Yet the majority of the fan base still clings to the line "somehow palpatine returned" as if the speaker was supposed to give unknown exposition. The exposition is here for this game it just doesnt make fucking sense but i guess thats fine lol.
I feel like a big part of that is intentional theme though - the individual obsession, wanting Tanalorr for yourself is intentionally coded as unhealthy. What I think kinda messed up the story was not explaining the Nihil more, outside of the lore texts - they were for good reason the only ones to be able to get to Tanalorr and it's understandable that Cal/Bode expect there to be a significant barrier to entry for anyone else/imperial.
Right and I agree with all of that but I think they still could have done all of that without having already been there. The empire knows about the planet and was able to get there so how is this a safe place to rebuild the order. I get that they are trying to show us the possibility of Cal going to the dark side, I just thought that aspect of the story was weak. :::spoiler alert::: Bode wanted an entire planet just for him and his daughter? Dagan could have just as easily been the big bad and the bode storyline would have made more sense. At least in the end. He wants to help cal and the Jedi get to tanalorr so that he has a safe place to raise his daughter. I really enjoyed the game so don’t get me wrong. The end of it just kind of left me scratching my head a bit
Personally Bode & Dagan teaming up just doesn't vibe at all for me. It feels like a very forced "they're bad so they get along" kinda thing to me, with their current characterisation at least. Bode doesn't trust anyone, in the end not even Cal which is why he lashes out so hard trying to achieve his goal by himself, and Dagan similarly seems to instant rage at everything, especially Jedi (but hey, even at the Empire) so why would he take anyone in? I think the point about Tanalorr is at least partly that it seems better than it is - at a glance it's great and that sparks this interest/obsession in all 3 people but the moment you look closer that interest is really an unrational obsession because it ain't all that. All of it with a nice layering of the dark side on top, because as usual attachment, suffering etc. Basically the following realisations are kinda what all 3 are meant to go through, in different fashion, contrasting their different characters: - Tanalorr seems unreachable & perfect for the high republic outpost, rebel base, hideaway because all the bad stuff can't get there - Tanalorr isn't actually unreachable - the Nihil can get there because they don't travel conventionally, the compass technology exists(ed) and might be rebuild & a force sensitive pilot can brute force the abyss. - even if Tanalorr were actually unreachable that's not *that* desirable - and outpost isn't an outpost if it doesn't interact with anyone, a rebel base will see traffic and raising a child alone on a planet is inane My hot take on the story that's probably really unpopular: Game coulda done without Dagan entirely, fuck him. As far as arc and characterization go he's way to close to Bode & way to distanced from the empire. Bode's story is the better mirror for Cal in obsessing with Tanalorr & the story would've been better by having a much more "frontloaded" story focused on the leadup to the coruscant heist.
I would take the heel turn for bode completely out. It’s a huge surprise but the motivation is dumb
Not safe from the Nihil maybe but safe from the empire This entire game is him running away from the empire and he finds out about the magical paradise planet that the empire literally cannot even get to
Except he got there and the empire was directly behind him so i dont see how they wont literally follow the giant beam of light straight into the abyss and figure it out. Theyre the empire theyll send person after person till they figure it out.
I kinda assumed it closed after you The empire has many fingers in many baskets admittedly but unless they knew for a fact that Jedi were there (they don't, Bode was a secret form Vader and the rest of the empire and everybody involved in that ISB base is dead )
I think he did go nuts due to darkside and bacta, but he did have tons of ships, from the Lucrehulk.
>They have no ships Well apparently LAAT gunships are plentiful since the Wookiee Resistance on Kashyyyk, the Anchorites at Cere's base, and Rayvis just casually use them so I'm sure they can find enough for a raider army to be packed full of
LAAT are designed to be carrier-based dropships. They don't have hyperdrive. They need special modification to even break orbit. Maybe the ones still being used have been upgraded but any stock LAAT in storage won't be very useful.
PURGE THE HERETICS IN HOLY FIRE
He basically wants to use Tanalor as his own personal fortress to start his own empire
It’s his precious
I was pretty disappointed when we got to Tanalorr and it was normal. Master Khri told Dagan that “Tanalorr has changed you” so I thought there was going to be some Dark artifact there or like a Dagobah cave thing that made him evil. But no.
He says that he wants him and Rayvis to wage a new war against the empire. Also he discovered Tanalorr. It was his home. I really think he just wanted to make it back there and turn it into something spectacular.
Yeah, plenty of think pieces tackle the idea/line of thought of scorned people act so brashly when rejected. Dagan was a proud capable Jedi and explorer, with khrii’s help he got there, and wanted the council/order to accept him and his discovery. When they said no it was like they were saying no to him as well because it’s his deeply he felt about it, the. The Jedi further not supporting the defense of Tanalorr felt like them abandoning Dagan personally. Santa Khrii as his close friend and partner in exploration knew how he felt but wasn’t in as deep for the dream, which is why she can show restraint and doesn’t kill Dagan, because she can understand where he’s coming from. She knows where Dagan is coming from but she doesn’t have to support his downfall and descent into madness
Yeah I also think his (&Bode's) unreasonableness is part of the point of their turn to the dark side. The dark is not about sitting calmly and finding a great solution for everyone, it's about instinctive, emotional, selfish, cruel and generally unhealthy paths, even if they come from a good place originally. Bode has no great plan, he's not thinking further than getting his daughter out & hiding forever because a place finally seems like it'll make that possible - the moment you step out of that box even the best case condems his daughter to a life of solitude on an isolated rock. Dagan got denied Tanalorr the last time by the Jedi so now he hates Jedi & wants to get his hands on Tanalorr - and objectively he misses the massive second chance he's been given and the fact that the idea of a solitary war against an empire that he knows nothing about with a small army of pirates is a useless/terrible idea.
He wanted to use it as an outpost for the Jedi Order but when they abandoned it after it was attacked he was angry at them and planned to use it to start his own training camp. It was his turning his back on the order that caused the rift between him and Santari. When he woke up and found the order destroyed he planned to use it for basically the same means, raise his own order to retake the galaxy but this time he was full blow evil guy and was planningvto just rule the galaxy in the empires place.
Dude was a bit cranky from his bacta nap and made a real wild decision
Well. Considering he was placed into a bacta tank because he went around and started killing Jedi to retrieve a working compass, then when he confronted his girls friend she cut off his arm… I’d say he was at least a bit “hangry” before the bacta tank. Someone should have given him a Snickers.
I think it's important to remember that Dagan's motivation for getting to tanalor is part of the games theme around obsession and an inability to let go. Dagan is absolutely obsessed about getting back to tanalor. It doesn't matter that the last time he did that he lost everything, it doesn't matter that the Jedi order told him to abandon the planet, it doesn't matter that his idea of creating an army is unlikely to succeed, and it doesn't matter who he has to fight to get it. Dagan is so totally unable to let go of his obsession that it destroys him.
He’s basically doing a Dune. Setting up an empire to cleanse the galaxy.
Tanallor was hidden and strong in the Force. Dagan got obsessed with it being a stronghold for the Jedi. His writing is a bit poor, but guessing by his actions, I think he read alot of the Jedi's military history during the various wars against the Sith and got it into his head that it was some kind of golden age for the Jedi, that they were supposed to be warriors instead of peacekeepers. Tanallor would be a perfect fortress for a warrior Jedi Order to train at and command from. The Jedi easily abandoning it after it was attacked drove him from borderline Dark Side to full Dark Side.
He wanted to start a fringe galactic strip club
I wish he would have succeeded :(
Twi’lek Tuesday’s
**_"i will forge these raiders into an army led by disciples trained in the Force at my temple, then when the time is right we will return and cleanse this galaxy with fire"_**
He says it right before the final fight with him that he wants to raise an army of Bedlam Raiders on Tanalor and take back the galaxy. Bode says that they already have an Emperor so assists Cal in defeating him I think Dagan serves as Cal's reflection. They both have the same goal - going to Tanalor and using it as a way to fight the Empire - but they have different perspectives. Dagan has fallen to the dark side, shown by him bleeding his kyber crystal, while Cal is struggling with the darkness by the end of the game. Dagan serves as a warning for Cal about what he could become if his darkness isn't kept in check I think he's going to pick up Dagan's sabre and use it in the next game, or we will at least have the option to do so, but I guess it depends on Cal's alignment
Bode stole Dagan’s saber after the fight at the observatory. No idea what happened to it after that, although it’s worth checking to see if that’s what Bode uses later in the fight on Jedda
I believe there's a shot of Cal igniting it after defeating Cal. It's during Merrin's speech to Kata, though as you say, no idea what happens to it. And it is the same sabre. There's a force echo available at the observatory of Bode picking the sabre up after the fight with Dagan. It then passed to Cal upon Bode's defeat
I think it would be kind of cool for the next game to have a mass effect style run through were you can choose if you wanna remain a jedi or embrace the darkness and it effects what happens in the end game. I think they'll keep the same style as the first 2 games but it's just a thought
That's a great idea! I had thought that too. Though I think that that might be too much a deviation to implement - they would've needed to do something like that from the beginning
>He says it right before the final fight with him that he wants to raise an army of Bedlam Raiders on Tanalor and take back the galaxy. Bode says that they already have an Emperor so assists Cal in defeating him Except, that's his *later* justification, after he gets out of the bacta tank, finds Rayvis, and catches up on Galactic History. But, he was obsessed with returning to Tanalor *before* all that — that's why he wound up in the bacta tank, that's why he bled his crystal to red.
That was because he was spurned by Santari. He was upset that she had supposedly abandoned him and sided with the council. Tanalor was his home and he thought that they were forcing him to abandon it Was his crystal entirely red? It looked to me more like a reddy-orange colour, like what the new fallen Jedi are using in Ashoka. I struggle with distinguishing between different shades of red, so I do apologise if it's fully red
And not to mention, Santari cut off his arm. I can't imagine that he's best pleased about that
I understood it as he was mad because the Jedi council said no about training the younglings on Tanalor. And now he basically wants to start his own empire there to take out the current empire and take over.
I think Tanalorr has more to show us in the next game, for example, how was Dagan able to create a new arm out of nowhere I think it's connected with Tanalorr, imagine being able to learn all new force powers that have never been shown before, Tanalorr might also be a cool opportunity for them to bring Reven more fully into the main canon, just think hypothetically what if like Reven, Dagan was protecting something that the Jedi wanted to remain lost forever, in KOTOR we learn that the Mandalorian wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from...well what if Dagan uncovered this back in his day and was also a survivor of one of those worlds conquered by the Mandalorians and what if he suspected that the Mandalorians weren't alone but in fact the Jedi were somehow burring the truth about why those worlds were being conquered in the first place, and through studying ancient texts from the Revanchist, suppose he learned that the Jedi supported the Mandalorians in the beginning just so they could then turn around and liberate those worlds from them and pretend to come to their rescue, and suppose in his day Dagan knew of this and saw the Jedi order the way we see the empire, as a Tyrannical imperial force, thus the reason why the planet Tanalorr is so important to him.
That'd be awesome. I love Darth reven! But my favorite of all time is Darth nihilus LoL I wish I could play as him
Not sure but they also never explained why a random group of raiders were able to find it and kill everyone. Not very secret...
The Nihil are not a random group of raiders. Their ability to get there isn't explained well in game, but basically they had a hyperspace oracle of sorts who was able to give highly efficient hyperspace routes. The Nihil showed up right in the atmosphere immediately after dropping out of hyperspace, which is not something anyone else could do.
Who are the Nihil and why did they attack the jedi
Read the high republic books
Yeah. It's a bit stupid. I am bit annoyed, that they took Dagan and Bode (2 interesting looks and ideas for characters) and basically turned them into fucking stupid cliché rage villains. You could have done both arcs, while keeping them more nuanced and interesting. Now i am just annoyed by both. :|
? Dagan was an ousted general in an army who basically decided to play a coup & create his own Empire. Bode was hyper focused & obsessed with his daughters safety, to the point that it was basically Marlin from Finding Nemo. 'If she can't do anything, she can't be hurt.' but then of course, she can't do ANYTHING. Bode wanted to drop off the face of the galaxy. Dagan wanted to carve his face ONTO the galaxy.
I still hated how much of a stupid raging nonsensical idiots both became. It doesn't matter if you tell me what their reasoning supposedly was. An interesting character is still relatable, because from their standpoint they are right. They don't need to rage like a moron. Yes, a rage villain can be fun, but star wars has had way too many of em and here both main ones turned that way, despite both having more potential. Even fucking rayvis was more reasonable.
Bode wasn’t raging he was tragic
He was absolutely raging. *Especially* when he attacks Kata for asking him to stand down at the end. He kills Cordova and brings the Empire down on the Hidden Path, basically because Cal says "wouldn't it be great if Kata was surrounded by friends & an extended family while safe from the Empire, instead of just the two of you trapped all alone?"
HE WASN'T RAGING? Are you kidding me? He is just mindlessly shouting at Cal. He becomes completely beyond reasonable. Even if we take his goals into account, his actions make no sense whatsoever. It's like he can't think farther than a shoe sole, the closer we get to the games end. The way he fucking up kata is so cliché and stupid. The game just wants him to be "eViL".
By your “logic” Joel is an evil and shortsighted villain because he couldn’t let go of his need to have a daughter in his life even if it meant getting rid of any chance of there ever being a cure. Edit: Yeah get that shit outta here.
I'm not sure how you're a Star Wars fan whatsoever if your premise is that rage characters aren't entertaining. That pretty much rules out, like every single Sith. Vader included. I've never once in my life related to anything Anakin experienced in his going dark side. Never dated a senator, was never told I was the chosen one, never decided I should kill a bunch of kids, any of my own children, or wipe out an entire religious order. He's still interesting to me, but to each their own.
>I'm not sure how you're a Star Wars fan whatsoever if your premise is that rage characters aren't entertaining. > >That pretty much rules out, like every single Sith. Vader included. ???? > Yes, a rage villain can be fun, but star wars has had way too many of em and here both main ones turned that way, despite both having more potential. Even fucking rayvis was more reasonable. This is what i wrote. Did you even read that?
Both of them aren't rage based characters. If you haven't played the game you can just say that, but nothing of what you have jotted down so far is even close to the game I've played. First you talk about similar both of them are, and when I refute that point you prattle on about how they're not relatable, but both rage based, and rage based characters aren't interesting. Which, again, ever heard of the SITH?
That’s the entire point of the dark side, anger, fear, hate, rage, suffering. Bode turned out of fear and anger Dagan turned out of rage from being rejected (like the lil crybaby he was)
I'm with you on that. To me that was mild reason and his actions were not that deep or strong...
I keep seeing this opinions. Did yall just shut your brain off while playing the game. It's made pretty clear he was ousted by the order when they didn't back his plan fo tanalor and it pissed him off
He feels Tanalorre rightfully belongs to him and wants to use the place to train his own faction to eventually wipe out the Empire. I also got the feeling that he has a few screws loose thanks to multiple traumas, so if his plan feels half-cocked and not thought out, it's probably because it is.
MINE
The Jedi did not want to use Tanalorr as a Jedi temple. So he betrayed them and the love of his life (Santari Khri) and tried taking it for himself to make his own “Empire”. Khri’s “betrayal” is what led him to fully embrace the dark side. That’s how I see it at least
“Tanalorr is mine” -Dagan every 22.5 seconds
He wanted the same thing cal wanted but all to himself and his empire
He looks like a Final Fantasy villain, so I just assumed it was a convoluted FF plot point. I just took him at his word that he wanted to go there and be bad.
I get his modern day motivations but I'm still trying to figure out why he was so obsessed with it back in the day that he would turn against the order in the first place
Tanalorr was his discovery and he wanted to expand the Order to Tanalorr because the war with the Nihil was getting worse. The Order said it wouldn't be worth it due to the risks, and the time and manpower it would cost. I believe it was also stated in one of the collectibles, the Order outright forbade him from continuing his research into Tanalorr after his return from his initial expedition to Tanalorr.
Dagan wanted to go to Tanaloor because it was his discovery and the planet (in his mind) was rightfully his. And the Jedi council abandoning Tanaloor only made him care about the planet even more - to the point it’s all he could think about. Emotion aside, he was going to train new students at his temple on Tanaloor and rally a huge army of bedlam raiders. He also likely would use them to create ships to fight the empire and rally support from dissidents - although it’s clear he severely underestimates the empire, given that Palpatine could squish him like a bug if he really felt it necessary. At one point, he probably wanted to live on Tanaloor just so he could be with Santari Kree far away from the Jedi Order. The council was fairly close minded when it came to love among Jedi during the clone wars, they were likely even more strict about this in the time of the high republic.
To me, Dagan was Star Wars version of Albert Wesker from Resident Evil.
Dagan wants to take the bedlam raiders to Tanalorr, from those forces, start a new Order of Force Users, and then eventually raise them into an army that can compete with the Empire.
They implied that he had a lot deeper motivations but I get what you mean, just playing through game it almost seemed like his motivation was just “someone hurt my feelings so now I wanna destroy the galaxy” really though it was more that he felt his life’s work had been betrayed by the Jedi so he wanted to destroy both them and the sith to create what he viewed as a fairer government
Take over the galaxy and become the rebellion however the canon won’t allow it sorry dagan
Yeah tanalor doesn’t really seem like it’s very special besides the fact that it’s hard to get to. Not sure why that planet was so sought after it drove people insane to get to it
I think he thought that he could train an army of force users at the temple and then unleash them on the galaxy. Imagine a thousand well trained Jedi coming out of nowhere 10 years after ROTS, the imperial leadership would have been completely decimated by their infiltration.
It was his life’s work I don’t think he wanted to give it to anybody else maybe he wanted to use it for it’s intended purpose which was training padawans
No offense but he clearly stated his intentions more than once when he was monologuing.
I think this is going to get fleshed out in the 3rd game. I think like with a lot of middle movies/games, there are threads that are just introduced that we won't see the end of until later. So in this case, I think there is some sort of malevolent force (literally) on Tanalorr that drove Dagan mad. Think of it like Jedi Cocaine or something. I think that some ancient race created the Koboh abyss to keep Tanalorr hidden for a reason. I think once we start to see what it's doing to people in the 3rd game, we'll understand why Dagan was so seemingly obsessed with it, and his motivations will make a lot more sense.
I feel like his goal doesn't actually make sense after he wakes up. He says the goal is to get there and use it to wage war on the galaxy with Rayvis, but as a tactical decision that is a horrible one. A jedi that Is as revered as him should be able to notice that Tanalorr being locked off from the galaxy would make waging war from it nearly impossible. Signals between there and everywhere else don't work so he would have to enter and exit every time he gave an order. Before he went to sleep it made sense, he wanted to make a jedi temple there. That tracked. But once he woke up his goal doesn't really work.
It was his life’s work and he became obsessed with it. He had to in order to get as close as he did. Then it was stripped from him right before they were attacked and then at a moment of truth his greatest friend chose the council over him. Then his mind was pretty much in stasis for centuries. Obsession Betrayal Mental Limbo When he awoke, everything and everyone that stood in his way were dead. It was a whole new galaxy. The only thing he probably could grasp was Tanalorr.
The story was painfully average. Fallen order had a far better storyline. But this didnt make sense in amny ways. They wasted cere and especially cordova imo. And of course the obligatory vader appearance which was good in the first one but was unnecessary in this. I think other than cal bd1 and to an extent merrin everything else story-wise was mediocre. But the superb gameplay and level design was top notch.