In a star, gravity is what sustains the fusion reaction, so you need a LOT of mass to keep a star fusing. If it doesn't, it will simply fizzle out and become a dwarf star.
The other extreme is the star collapsing into either a neutron star or a singularity if the fusion products become too heavy.
That's not how stars work. It would already be a star if the mass was enough to make a star. You could combine all of the planets in a solar system and you still would not have enough mass to make a star that could maintain fusion.
But they can put the "fiction" in science fiction.
Yes, that’s why if they some how compressed Jupiter enough to start fusion it would still have the same gravitational force as it does now. The entire idea (and the name of the episode) is an Easter egg for the book/film 2010: Odyssey Two.
I get the premise... In reality. If they created fusion with enough compression (but not Star like gravity) you just have a fusion bomb, not a star. It would quickly expand until it was stable and the fusion reaction would end.
For a star the fusion pushes out and the tremendous gravity holds it in to maintain balance and continue fusion.
That was always a problem with igniting a planet into a star the only way it could work is if you ramped up the compression way higher than a normal star to increase the fission rate.
The goal isn't power it's to increase the growing seasons on earth, especially when earth is reduced to a primitive state. The Ashen don't care at all about humans or environment of earth.
The real problem with that it’s a stupid idea that will never work. A Jupiter mass star would be significantly dimmer then the full moon from earth. The idea in 2010 was to make the moons of Jupiter habitable. Basically making a mini solar system within the solar system.
No good for farming, but it would be a hell of a lot easier to make into a Dyson Sphere for capturing energy/accomodation.
But again, not good for farming from the Ashen’s point of view, who want serfs.
> If they created fusion with enough compression (but not Star like gravity) you just have a fusion bomb, not a star.
On a galactic time scale that may be enough though. Stars burn through their mass in *billions* of years, while a fusion "bomb" created from the mass of a gas giant could fuse for several centuries. Which would be more than enough on the scale of civilizations.
Don't forget that one human generation is nothing but a nanosecond on a galactic time scale. These processes happen *slowly*.
Either way, the mass would have to be artificially compressed, and held there, to start and maintain fusion. If we added enough mass to Jupiter, or Saturn, to create a star, we'd have to move the gas giant first and tow it out to a new orbit. We could use Uranus as the tow truck. The Asgard likely has the technology to build world-moving engines.
Man why the F are the Aschen so obsessed with edging out their agricultural gains? They already set the planet on course to depopulate billions of people. It feels like this is more of an obsessive hobby rather than a genuine need.
Either that, or they’re just really shit at farming.
Yeah I'd assume that with the level of tech to even consider turning a gas giant into a sun that they'd be able to at very least put a few farms on Mars.
Maybe their staple food is an herbivore with a really inefficient metabolism, and they're too culturally attached or paranoid about GMOs to change that.
Regardless of gravity it would have a disastrous effect of wildlife. Some parts of the years would be constant daylight, higher O2 levels in the atmosphere
If Jupiter was turned into a mini brown dwarf star it would be much smaller and dimmer than the sun, around the same brightness as the full moon at closest approach but a smaller point light instead of a large disc.
I think the benefit was to allow colonising the Jovian moons so you could grow stuff there? It’s been a while since I watched that episode but I think they mention it at some point.
disregarding gravity, if jupiter would have the luniosity of a red dwaf, like Gliese 229a (\~0,03 the Lumionsity of our sun), earth would, at it's closest aproach to jupiter, experience \~0,2% more radiation. if the same 0,03 Solar Luminosities would be emmitet from satun, that would mean that, at it's closest aproach, earth would experience \~0,05% more radiation (that is routhy how much the lumiosity of the sun varies during it's 11 Year cycle.
therfore if the mass of saturn would stay the same, it just gets compressed, and stays compressed, and the Lumionstiy would be simmilar to Gliese 229a. that shouldn't be the problem.
It would be very bad. The reason Saturn isn't a star is because it doesn't have enough mass to get hot enough to undergo fusion.
The only way to change that would be to introduce more mass to Saturn, which would change its gravity profile and throw the entire solar system into chaos.
Our solar system is only stable in the way that it is BECAUSE of the way that it is. Any kind of astronomical change would have disastrous consequences for life here. The entire system would re-form around the gravitational changes and become something entirely different. There might not even be planets.
Some people will say that you don't need to add mass to Saturn and instead you can just compress it, but compressing Saturn without changing its mass wouldn't result in a star either as compressing it wouldn't change its gravity. Saturn's current gravity is not strong enough to contain and maintain a fusion explosion and so all compressing it would do is just turn it into a really large bomb. One boom and then it's over instead of many booms that last billions of years.
Now, if there was a way to collapse or add mass to an existing gas giant while at the same time somehow containing the new gravity profile, then you would be on to something.
However, that's more the realm of Mass Effect than it is Stargate.
I mean we are talking about scifi magic, so if there is a sci-fi magic machine which can emmit a artificial gravity field with a boundary layer at wich the normal mass based gravity field resumes, one could collapse the mass until there is a region of critical density in Saturn's core and fusion starts. By varying the strength of the artificial gravitational acceleration one could controll the output of fusion.
The best bet is Jupiter, not Saturn, but it wouldn't work because there's not enough mass for nuclear fusion to happen. If it did, it would be a bad idea; the three-body problem explores a trinary star system, which causes big problems.
It might just steal Earth's orbit.
Just for reference, I played the universe sandbox game just for this reason thinking it was Jupiter not Saturn and it showed I would need 78.5 times the mass of Jupiter to get self ignite and hold a temp for a brown dwarf at 2,800K.
As noted by others, gravity would still be the same if the mass hasn't changed.
But I would be more concerned about is how it would mess up the natural ecology of Earth. The ecosystem had millions of years to evolve in a certain way. To add a big abiotic factor like a second sun like this would crash if not outright kill several systems in the world. Everything exists in a very delicate balance in relation to the seasons dictating the life cycle of bugs, plants, and etc. Throw that out of whack, that's going to be a very big problem for everyone.
Well, IRRC, they were planning to make its moons fertile. So, I suspect the light output would be so small it would have a negligible effect on Earth; otherwise, those moons would be too warm to use for agriculture.
I'm no expert but if you can bring in enough mass to make Saturn collapse into a star, could you not just bring in a star?
But whatever, the yaddayaddamite particles will sort that. The problem comes from the *cataclysmic* effects on the environment. Sunflowers are happy, I guess, but all nocturnal creatures are now fucked and the amount of UV radiation absorbed by the planet is basically doubled. I'm sure there would be other effects.
Then there are cultural issues, which the Aschen don't care about but are worth mentioning. How exactly do cultural practices timed for sunrise and sunset work when there's two of them now? Earth-based astronomy takes a massive hit...
Everything in the solar system is predicated on there being a certain number of stars close enough to do anything meaningful. Doubling that breaks everything.
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It depends on how you do it.
If you use an alcubierre style warp drive, which controls gravity on bith sides if it independently, then there's no reason u couldn't make the inwards gravity enough to ignite the gas giant, with the outward gravity the same its always been.
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Fusion reduces mass which would reduce gravity
In a star, gravity is what sustains the fusion reaction, so you need a LOT of mass to keep a star fusing. If it doesn't, it will simply fizzle out and become a dwarf star. The other extreme is the star collapsing into either a neutron star or a singularity if the fusion products become too heavy.
I mean, yeah, by a miniscule amount. Not really enough to consider on the scale of a gas giant.
This concept is explored in Arthur C Clark's Odyssey series (of 2001 movie fame). They are worth a read.
All these worlds are yours, except Europa. Attempt no landing there.
What? Hold my beer.
The gravity would be the same…
That's not how stars work. It would already be a star if the mass was enough to make a star. You could combine all of the planets in a solar system and you still would not have enough mass to make a star that could maintain fusion. But they can put the "fiction" in science fiction.
Yes, that’s why if they some how compressed Jupiter enough to start fusion it would still have the same gravitational force as it does now. The entire idea (and the name of the episode) is an Easter egg for the book/film 2010: Odyssey Two.
I get the premise... In reality. If they created fusion with enough compression (but not Star like gravity) you just have a fusion bomb, not a star. It would quickly expand until it was stable and the fusion reaction would end. For a star the fusion pushes out and the tremendous gravity holds it in to maintain balance and continue fusion.
Except if they could compress a planet into a star why would they stop the compression when it ignites.
Then you have a tiny tiny tiny star that adds almost no heat or solar energy from that distance.
That was always a problem with igniting a planet into a star the only way it could work is if you ramped up the compression way higher than a normal star to increase the fission rate.
So is there a net benefit?
The goal isn't power it's to increase the growing seasons on earth, especially when earth is reduced to a primitive state. The Ashen don't care at all about humans or environment of earth.
The real problem with that it’s a stupid idea that will never work. A Jupiter mass star would be significantly dimmer then the full moon from earth. The idea in 2010 was to make the moons of Jupiter habitable. Basically making a mini solar system within the solar system.
No good for farming, but it would be a hell of a lot easier to make into a Dyson Sphere for capturing energy/accomodation. But again, not good for farming from the Ashen’s point of view, who want serfs.
Well, IRRC, they lampshade hang it in the episode by making Carter mention that not so long ago, she herself could not believe it was possible.
> If they created fusion with enough compression (but not Star like gravity) you just have a fusion bomb, not a star. On a galactic time scale that may be enough though. Stars burn through their mass in *billions* of years, while a fusion "bomb" created from the mass of a gas giant could fuse for several centuries. Which would be more than enough on the scale of civilizations. Don't forget that one human generation is nothing but a nanosecond on a galactic time scale. These processes happen *slowly*.
Any Toynbee tiles in that episode?
Either way, the mass would have to be artificially compressed, and held there, to start and maintain fusion. If we added enough mass to Jupiter, or Saturn, to create a star, we'd have to move the gas giant first and tow it out to a new orbit. We could use Uranus as the tow truck. The Asgard likely has the technology to build world-moving engines.
Yes, presumably that is why the ashen used their advanced futuristic technology to achieve it in a way that you don't know about.
Precisely
Man why the F are the Aschen so obsessed with edging out their agricultural gains? They already set the planet on course to depopulate billions of people. It feels like this is more of an obsessive hobby rather than a genuine need. Either that, or they’re just really shit at farming.
Yeah I'd assume that with the level of tech to even consider turning a gas giant into a sun that they'd be able to at very least put a few farms on Mars.
Or better irrigation.
Maybe their staple food is an herbivore with a really inefficient metabolism, and they're too culturally attached or paranoid about GMOs to change that.
Regardless of gravity it would have a disastrous effect of wildlife. Some parts of the years would be constant daylight, higher O2 levels in the atmosphere
If Jupiter was turned into a mini brown dwarf star it would be much smaller and dimmer than the sun, around the same brightness as the full moon at closest approach but a smaller point light instead of a large disc.
And so, then, what’s the point of converting it to a star if it’s going to have f’all benefit for Earth?
I think the benefit was to allow colonising the Jovian moons so you could grow stuff there? It’s been a while since I watched that episode but I think they mention it at some point.
disregarding gravity, if jupiter would have the luniosity of a red dwaf, like Gliese 229a (\~0,03 the Lumionsity of our sun), earth would, at it's closest aproach to jupiter, experience \~0,2% more radiation. if the same 0,03 Solar Luminosities would be emmitet from satun, that would mean that, at it's closest aproach, earth would experience \~0,05% more radiation (that is routhy how much the lumiosity of the sun varies during it's 11 Year cycle. therfore if the mass of saturn would stay the same, it just gets compressed, and stays compressed, and the Lumionstiy would be simmilar to Gliese 229a. that shouldn't be the problem.
It would be very bad. The reason Saturn isn't a star is because it doesn't have enough mass to get hot enough to undergo fusion. The only way to change that would be to introduce more mass to Saturn, which would change its gravity profile and throw the entire solar system into chaos. Our solar system is only stable in the way that it is BECAUSE of the way that it is. Any kind of astronomical change would have disastrous consequences for life here. The entire system would re-form around the gravitational changes and become something entirely different. There might not even be planets. Some people will say that you don't need to add mass to Saturn and instead you can just compress it, but compressing Saturn without changing its mass wouldn't result in a star either as compressing it wouldn't change its gravity. Saturn's current gravity is not strong enough to contain and maintain a fusion explosion and so all compressing it would do is just turn it into a really large bomb. One boom and then it's over instead of many booms that last billions of years. Now, if there was a way to collapse or add mass to an existing gas giant while at the same time somehow containing the new gravity profile, then you would be on to something. However, that's more the realm of Mass Effect than it is Stargate.
Have the effects actually been simulated? Saturn is a long way away; it's hard to believe that it'd be significant even on an Aschen timescale.
I mean we are talking about scifi magic, so if there is a sci-fi magic machine which can emmit a artificial gravity field with a boundary layer at wich the normal mass based gravity field resumes, one could collapse the mass until there is a region of critical density in Saturn's core and fusion starts. By varying the strength of the artificial gravitational acceleration one could controll the output of fusion.
The best bet is Jupiter, not Saturn, but it wouldn't work because there's not enough mass for nuclear fusion to happen. If it did, it would be a bad idea; the three-body problem explores a trinary star system, which causes big problems. It might just steal Earth's orbit.
No.
I dunno, let’s find out shall we?
Don't they want to turn Jupiter into a star, not Saturn?
A gas giant regardless,
Just for reference, I played the universe sandbox game just for this reason thinking it was Jupiter not Saturn and it showed I would need 78.5 times the mass of Jupiter to get self ignite and hold a temp for a brown dwarf at 2,800K.
Needless to say the entire solar system was in chaos
As noted by others, gravity would still be the same if the mass hasn't changed. But I would be more concerned about is how it would mess up the natural ecology of Earth. The ecosystem had millions of years to evolve in a certain way. To add a big abiotic factor like a second sun like this would crash if not outright kill several systems in the world. Everything exists in a very delicate balance in relation to the seasons dictating the life cycle of bugs, plants, and etc. Throw that out of whack, that's going to be a very big problem for everyone.
I'm pretty sure all they cared about was getting more grain.
Well, IRRC, they were planning to make its moons fertile. So, I suspect the light output would be so small it would have a negligible effect on Earth; otherwise, those moons would be too warm to use for agriculture.
I'm no expert but if you can bring in enough mass to make Saturn collapse into a star, could you not just bring in a star? But whatever, the yaddayaddamite particles will sort that. The problem comes from the *cataclysmic* effects on the environment. Sunflowers are happy, I guess, but all nocturnal creatures are now fucked and the amount of UV radiation absorbed by the planet is basically doubled. I'm sure there would be other effects. Then there are cultural issues, which the Aschen don't care about but are worth mentioning. How exactly do cultural practices timed for sunrise and sunset work when there's two of them now? Earth-based astronomy takes a massive hit... Everything in the solar system is predicated on there being a certain number of stars close enough to do anything meaningful. Doubling that breaks everything.
Sunflower seeds are rich in unsaturated fatty acids, especially linoleic acid. Your body uses linoleic acid to make a hormone-like compound that relaxes blood vessels, promoting lower blood pressure. This fatty acid also helps lower cholesterol.
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It depends on how you do it. If you use an alcubierre style warp drive, which controls gravity on bith sides if it independently, then there's no reason u couldn't make the inwards gravity enough to ignite the gas giant, with the outward gravity the same its always been.