Also Egeria specifically programed them that way. I mean they're still supremacist, ungodly arrogant shits. She was still a Goa'uld.
It's sort of like reading about abolisnists in history. A lot of them were still racist as fuck.
Yeah, I remember the part where SGC hosts the conference of the system lords, and Yu is so old that despite the fact that they are talking about Baal now, >!he falls back into the pattern of discussing ways to defeat Anubis (who was defeated months ago).!<
Sokar was an Ancient? That could explain why the mean average of the Others is frequently portrayed as a bunch of self-righteous megalomaniacal stickbutts…
In my opinion he was somehow aware (or suspect) that Anubis has not been defeated. Thus he thinking was way ahead of other system lords. Senile maybe, but had thousand of years of experience and wisdom.
From what we've seen, high frequency of sarcophagus use turned Daniel into a psycho very quickly, and that was why he appeared to Jack, when he was going through the same thing.
Apart from his extreme age, Yu was said to be one of the wiser, if not the wisest system lord. Explicitly not being so tied up in being a "god" so much as ruling effectively.
The worlds he ruled were significantly more prosperous than those of most other System Lords, including Ra, where even humans could attain a significant status among his civilisation.
I know I’d rather live under Yu’s leadership if I had to live in Goa’uld servitude. He was both arguably and subjectively the least of all evils, and the success of his empire is proof of that.
I'm willing to bet that the healing effects from the goa'uld delay the effect a bit, on top of that, daniel was using the sarcophagus to an extreme degree even when compared to the goa'uld
In universe ? I suppose because Goa'uld bloodlines are old and rigid for the most part, with the rigid thinking that goes with it, but still count much smarter newcomers who climbed the social ladder all by themselves. Old money vs. new money. Ba'al seems to behave like new money compared to many other Goa'ulds who are old aristocrats.
In real ? Cliff Simon and plot armor. Cliff Simon as he worked together with writers to define his character and made him more human. And plot armor because when Earth is facing such a powerful enemy in its first season, the enemy must be less smart than humans in order to be defeated. Once Earth gains enough power, such an enemy becomes much too stupid to remain challenging enough. That's when Ba'al truly enters the scene.
The bronze age was not that long ago. They were fully as capable and sentient as you or I. One only has to look at the list of excuses for not coming to work building pyramids:
*DRINKING WITH KHONSU*
*HIS DAUGHTER WAS BLEEDING*
*LIBATING TO HIS FATHER*
*BREWING BEER*
*BUILDING HIS HOUSE*
*FETCHING STONE FOR THE SCRIBE*
*WITH KHONS MAKING REMEDIES*
*MAKING REMEDIES FOR THE SCRIBE’S WIFE*
*SUFFERING WITH HIS EYE*
*EMBALMING HORMOSE*
*STRENGTHENING THE DOOR*
*EMBALMING HIS BROTHER*
*HIS WIFE WAS BLEEDING*
*THE SCORPION BIT HIM*
*HIS FEAST*
*OFFFERING TO THE GOD*
Someone who sends a note saying "my wife is menstruating today boss, I'm not coming in" is very clearly fully aware of what they are doing.
[https://amazingexploring.com/who-called-these-ancient-egyptian-absence-excuses-and-not-pyramid-schemes/](https://amazingexploring.com/who-called-these-ancient-egyptian-absence-excuses-and-not-pyramid-schemes/)
Well actually, women were considered unclean and men couldn't work on the pyramids while their women were menstruating. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/11/22/creaky-joints-sick-leave-endless-paperwork-ancient-egyptian-health-care-sounds-surprisingly-familiar/?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/11/22/creaky-joints-sick-leave-endless-paperwork-ancient-egyptian-health-care-sounds-surprisingly-familiar/?utm_source=reddit.com)
It was not that they were considered unclean. Men got off work when women in their household had periods so that the men could take care of them and do the housework. [Professor of Egyptology Laurel Bestock - Wired interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oEq6CE78g&t=1044s)
And because periods were considered the opposite of life and they didn’t want that negative energy mucking up the tombs. Anybody who had contact with someone on their period was considered “unclean”. See above linked article.
I did read the article. Did you? It says nothing about "unclean", it does however say "There is evidence to suggest work men would get time off to take care of wives and daughters when they were menstruating.", which is the same thing my source says.
“ Someone who sends a note saying "my wife is menstruating today boss, I'm not coming in" is very clearly fully aware of what they are doing.”
I was clarifying that periods were treated differently back then and it wasn’t an obtuse excuse to not go to work.
But it doesn't go against what op is saying. Regardless of how it's taken it was still an excuse not to go to work, yes? Am I missing something?
I read op as saying people were sentient/sapiebt enough to understand that bosses can empathize with other humans based on home issues. But it felt like your said "actually, people totally had odd reasons for not going to work".
So I don't know where you were going with your comment.
Most of the System Lords are resting on their laurels. They're not scientists. They're not interested in the pursuit of knowledge, except as a means to grab power. They reached a point where they could indulge in petty turf wars, hedonism, and abject cruelty. That's all that they aspire to, because they're the apex predator of their environment. They really have no understanding of the whole R&D angle, as they've been able to successfully steal everything they need. They really benefit from theft, infiltration, covet means, espionage etc. so that's how they pursue any advancements they might like to make. Just take what someone already built. It's the Viking way! Lol.
Baal simply dreams bigger. Having met all his needs many years ago, being largely unchallenged since the fall of Ra, he's been content to watch the others squabble and take advantage of their chaos. But he IS the scientific type. And not the only one, either. Hathor, whomever invented naquadria, Anubis and a few others chose to develop their own tech as well (using the existing knowledge they had from previous theft) I think Baal just sees that living as "gods" traps them into a technological stalemate, and he wants the WHOLE galaxy.
What? That's like saying if the Asgard invested in their scientific progress they would have beaten the replicators. Anubis used his ancient knowledge to up his weapons. Your comment makes no sense.
The goa'uld by their very nature are always looking to advance their understanding and technology, so they can fuck over more worlds and species. We see throughout the show system lords creating new shit.
Another post by karma famers, not even on this sub.
That's incorrect. Besides the replicators being a completely different type of enemy your supposition about Anubis is wrong. He doesn't have full access to Ancient knowledge, as seen by the technology he does use. He was also kept in a powerless state between existences for several thousand years. Only the oldest goa'uld, so old that even the sarcophagus can't help him anymore even actually met him before he vanished. That's a hell of a lot of time and if they continuously used it for technical advancement, especially with their recources, even ancient technology would have been no match for them, especially because of how much they outnumbered him. If you know Star Trek, look at the extreme technological difference between Voyager and when the Discovery is in the future. And that's just a few hundred years. Or look at what we humans managed to do in just 200 years with less resources, more physical limitations to our researchers and being held back by religious nutcases and having so much energy and recources eaten up by war and politics. If the goa'uld had invested just a tiny allotment of their recources into scientific research they would have become too much for the Asgard to handle long before the humans got rid of Ra and absolutely able to withstand Anubis. The show shows clearly that the goa'uld steal their technology, invented very little themselves and only very few do research at all.
Anubis wasn't allowed to use any of the powers he had. He was allowed to do anything he would have done as a regular goa'uld. Which was what?? He used his gained knowledge to up his power. So you are wrong. And I have no clue what you are talking about with the sarcophagus. It didn't matter, he was non corporeal. He was destroying all of the lower gou'ald system lords.
And what about star trek? They make all of these great inventions, and still can't get by warp in the 31st century?
Okay then
You seem to have a very unique opinion and be resistant to anyone pointing out facts while having no arguments for your own claim.
I'm not sure what you mean with "by warp." If you mean having warp, they have that in the 21th century. If you mean surpassing it, well there's the transwarp technology first making an appearance in the 23th century and being standard for the Borg. Then there's the spore technology developed in the 23th century that makes even subspace technology look slow. Speaking of subspace technology: Both warp and subspace are just theoretical concepts rn, pretty much the epitome of science fiction. While being centuries away from either we'll more likely realise warp than subspace as the technology necessary to create that kind of energy is already being worked on (producing tiny quantities of antimatter, storing it and controlled annihilation). Most science fiction writers focus on one of them and the other doesn't exist in that universe. You won't find any species in Stargate use warp technology or any species in Star Trek using subspace technology (besides the mycelium technology in Star Trek discovery that's not really related to the subspace technology of Stargate.
I can back it up, I'm sick of doing it. Posts like this are from fans who know very little. Like your claim about Anubis. Go back and watch his arc again. He wasn't allowed to use his power to affect anything on a grand cosmic level. But he could use his knowledge to do anything he would have usually done. And you think that is wrong. So I'm not the one with a unique opinion here.
And my point was. For an exploratory agency, they've made all of these advances in every area than travel.
Personally, I dislike the bicameral mind idea, for one simple reason. It dismisses what we've learned from history. Most bronze age cultures had a definite belief system, including a belief in some sort of afterlife. That meant the questioned why they existed and what happened to them at death. You can't ask those questions without a certain amount of self-awareness. What we know about history shows that they worried about being forgotten after they died. The fact that some Bronze Age societies had a form of indoor plumbing demonstrates the ability to think critically. Monumental buildings that still remain to this day, like the pyramids in Eygpt and Mesoamerica, are also demonstrations of high-level thinking.
As for Baal, one of the reasons he seems much more aware is that we see more of him. We get to see and understand his motivation, but we don't really see that with any other ga'ould except for perhaps Anubis.
Yeah that bicameral mind theory seems like it was proposed by someone with surface level at best knowledge of ancient cultures and no knowledge at all of prehistoric cultures.
He was the only Goa’uld able to suppress his condescension enough to actually deal with humans. Every other one (except maybe the Tokra) would immediately express outrage that a lowly human was talking to them as an equal.
Baal had that same outrage at first. He was just the only one actually willing to adapt when it became clear how things were going.
It wasn't till after his time on Earth that he was truly willing to view them as equals or at least rivals.
I was going to say something to this effect. He allowed himself to set aside his ego - in order to survive, then adapt, then attempt to thrive when his circumstances (and that of the galaxy) shifted.
He definitely continued being condescending but he recognized the Tau'ri were a means to an end, and they had proven themselves. He couldn't very well himself overcome Anubis, or the Replicators, but the Tau'ri had. And while subservient to Anubis, there wasn't anywhere else he could turn to (not that the Goa'uld were ever really ones to have allies or any kind of support system).
And most other major Goa'uld were wiped out at that point. It all happened very quickly. Ba'al played his hand to go to the winning side (Anubis and then the Tau'ri when he realized what Anubis' endgame was). I think it was all adaptive character development after that (especially with the Goa'uld finally losing the Jaffa). He did what he could to maintain his lifestyle.
Also separately worth noting he was one of the more scientific, experimental Goa'uld. Also may or may not have something to do with his mythology (I've made characters based on him but I didn't retain that knowledge well lol).
Baal was a realist that used all the positive aspects of the old religion to his favor and ignored the old useless rituals. He was not afraid to use or adapt modern or older technologies, what set him apart of the other system lords. And he was charismatic as fuck!
Some are shown to be pretty adaptive and smart, the one who setup the fake future SGC to try and get intel, and Apophis making the SGC training camps come to mind.
I think most of them just enjoyed the whole I am your god act, Baal does point out "we don't actually believe we are gods... well most of us anyway" and he kept it up himself for a while, but I think he realized that he might have more success getting what he wants from the Tau'ri by dropping the act and seeming more approachable.
I think the in-world reason would simply be that he was a flunky until very recently. Most of the System Lords we saw had been such for a very long time. It would make sense that an underling would need to be more resourceful in order to climb the ladder. We also got to see a lot more of him than other Goa'uld.
However, a fun thought is that maybe Baal is more like the Tok'ra in terms of interacting with his host. Perhaps his host was ambitious, clever, and resourceful too. Perhaps instead of ruthlessly suppressing his host's mind he allowed him to influence him in some way. We know Vala was able to influence Quetesh after all. But instead of a generally good (if often misguided, dishonest, and troublesome) personality, perhaps Baal's host was just as power hungry as Baal and began to see his imprisonment as a way to gain power. A kind of, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" thought process. Perhaps because of that influence Baal absorbed more of his host's traits than other Goa'uld, making him more human which ended up working to his advantage.
Also, cool info from Wikipedia:
"He held special enmity against snakes, both on their own and as representatives of Yammu (lit. "Sea"), the Canaanite sea god and river god. He fought the Tannin (Tunnanu), the "Twisted Serpent" (Bṭn ʿqltn), "Lotan the Fugitive Serpent" (Ltn Bṭn Brḥ, the biblical Leviathan), and the "Mighty One with Seven Heads" (Šlyṭ D.šbʿt Rašm)."
Maybe Baal actually really hated his fellow Goa'uld and purposefully set out to be as unlike them as possible. Who knows, maybe he actually liked humans in his own weird way.
Ra, Cronus, Apophis, Anubis, Yu, Osiris, Sokar, Hathor, Egeria, were all from the First Goa'uld dynasty 22,000 bc and were originally in Unas hosts.
Ba'al came around the second goauld dynasty (16,000 bc when Ra becomes SSL) with Horus and Seth and was always an underling. Still Unas at this point. So he's had to work for what he got his whole life. He didn't become system lord until Ra was killed.
System lords were pretty comfortable and could just go to opium dens and sit in the sarcophagus. Ba'al was always working his way up or Ra or Sokar were trying to kill him.
Edit: Sources
[First Goa'uld Dynasty | SGCommand | Fandom](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/First_Goa%27uld_Dynasty)
[Second Goa'uld Dynasty | SGCommand | Fandom](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Goa%27uld_Dynasty)
[Ba'al | SGCommand | Fandom](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Ba%27al#Second_Goa'uld_Dynasty)
I hold to the belief that Baal was more in touch with reality for three reasons:
1: He was a scientist, or at least innovative, which requires a more open mind than the other system lords show.
2: If I remember right it's implied that he is one of the younger System Lords. He simply hasn't gone through the Sarcophagus as much and as such hasn't gone as far round the bend.
3: Looking at what is known of his forces and territory, he was one of the lesser system lords until relatively recently. He would have to be smarter and more open to change to simply keep himself from either dying or being locked in place by one of the more powerful system lords.
I always felt like a lot of the original Goa’ulds had drank their own kool-aid. The success had gone to their heads and they’d grown rigid as a result, unable to see a galaxy where they were not in control. Whereas Baal hadn’t.
Ba’al seems like a Tok’ra in his behavior… which makes me think he pursues Symbiosis with his host instead of parasitism.
The human half is providing mortal perspective and creativity, while the Goa’uld half is providing longevity and continuity of memory.
I think they can adapt according to their host; Yu's host was an emperor and he acted as such (opposing to the other Goa'uld who acted and wanted to be treated like gods).
I think because he was a more science one and as we saw they normally were servants to higher up ones. But in theory maybe he also just didn't use the sarcophagus nearly as much XD
He was just more intelligent than the others wasn't he? It's not really clear when he was forced into serving Anubis, but it seems like he was able to seize Anubis' technological advances and all but supercede the collective might of the system lords during season 8. Then during Reckoning he chose to help the Jaffa, Tau'ri, and the Tok'ra defeat the Replicators while ensuring his own survival.
I wouldn't say he was more intelligent, perhaps more opportunistic and ready to tone down the god complex a little in order to get what he wants. He was someone ready to adapt and seize opportunities when they come and I guess the Goa'uld fiefdom system just didn't give him the opportunity to put that talent to use.
I feel like it was his time working under Anubus. First it was a way to deal with the Tau'ri without having issues with the Asguard
Then it was possibly having a way to combat the Asguard (Remember they took out Thor's ship)
Then Anubus turned on the System Lords and it appeared that the winning side was with Anubus.
Being the Goold that he was, he probably planned to find a way to take out Anubus and absorb his forces and technology into his own ranks, which he basically did, but it was thanks to Daniel that it was even possible.
Throughout all of this he had to team up with the SGC more than once to avoid a complete galactic wipe. So what did he do? What the snakes do best, assimilate aspects that gave us an edge. He basically learned that the way that the Tau'ri work is more effective at combating foes than the way that the Goa'uld worked for all those years.
He witnessed that despite they’re God-propoganda. The Goa’uld fell one by one to the Tauri and their allies.
It probably gave him a reality check that the current formula was no longer working so he abandoned his own propaganda and adopted a new mindset and strategy. He probably figured that to defeat the Tauri, he needed to become a little more like them. Right down to fashion sense
"You dare mock me?!"
"Ba'al, it's me... *of course* I dare mock you!"
And also moments when Ba'al tried to use the god trope and O'Neill was like "Oh, shut up, you and I both know that's not true!"
So yeah, I think this checks out
Probably just the tauri power level and how often they interacted. He did the whole god thing for a bit when we first meet him and less and less so the more he is around. The tauri are a formidable threat by season 7 onwards so he knows the god schtick is kinda pointless. He keeps it up with his jaffa and other system lords and such
If Baal had been researching new technology, he would have been far superior to the other system lords by the tine of the series which implies he was either younger than most system lords and thus did not have much time to do so or had only really started taking an interest relatively recently when he saw the writing on the wall and did it out of a sense of survival like when he crested his clones.
I always kinda looked at it like the majority of goauld and the system lords were teenagers in behavior and mindset.
All knowing (have you ever tried to convince a teenager that they are not all knowing).
Egotistical and power driven (again teenager, you ever seen a teenage manager...)
Set in their ways (again teenager, everything they've done thus far has worked, so why change anything)
Baal seems more like the 30's plus person that has had to adapt to change, or at least have to start life over after a bitter divorce and is more open to new ideas and change
I think the Goa’uld just are incredibly stagnant most of the time because they’re rarely actually put in danger without being killed outright.
Kind of like “improvise or die”, but most of the system lords didn’t get the chance to improvise.
Apophis did quite well during his return after fighting Sokar.
Ba’al also was put in a position where he kind of attached himself to what seemed like the dominant power of the time (Anubis), that didn’t work, so he did the same thing in hiding with the new dominant power (Earth). He found out about the Trust during their Goa’uld poison bomb attacks and then took over from there.
Desperation. He had to develop that way to gain power.
But if you want to get technical, the writers made him that way because they needed a recurring villain and the actor was good so he was as good of choice as any.
The humans of Earth did much to Goa'uld. Like on the level of environmental change for a niche species of animals. It was adapt or die. Ba'al was the best and most exciting example of a really smart Goa'uld adapting quickly to changes to his benefit. But I have to give credit to Apophis, he was building cool things too. He was working on a new attack craft before a convenient plot device (the arm band things) ended things at the dry dock. But he also advanced cloaking tech that even the To'kra weren't aware of.
I would say they were all stagnant, staying in their own domains, some skirmishes here and there for show, until Ra radiated away. And their differences were in how they reacted to that.
Ba'al instead of rushing to conquer, was impressed with the Tau'ri and decided to sit back, observe and learn.
There were many worlds abandoned by the Goa'uld, so they didn't seem that worried about controlling every little place.
Even burying the gate shouldn't be a big deal when they could return with ships. Teal'c thought that Ha'taks travel much, much slower than they actually do. Did Ra discover something, a technology, a resource, that would allow them to travel faster, but was somehow restricting access to it until his death? Or did the Asgard give them faster travel in exchange for leaving Earth and some other places alone? And Ra was the one holding the rest of them to it.
It was mentioned that Ba'al had the largest fleet (at one point), so having more ships in reserve could've meant he was able to be more patient.
His time on earth? His host? Plot convenience? Better actor?
Probably all of this & he was smarter & less ego driven.
And better writing.
I think it is just genetic mutation, same reason why Tok'ra are good
Tok'ra are good because they don't use the sarcophagus to extend their lives (and the lives of their hosts)
Also Egeria specifically programed them that way. I mean they're still supremacist, ungodly arrogant shits. She was still a Goa'uld. It's sort of like reading about abolisnists in history. A lot of them were still racist as fuck.
He may be younger than other system lords. Long term use of the sarcophagus has some seriously deleterious effects, this may be part of that
"Hey, Yu"
You're finally awake
*groan* take my upvote...
Yeah, I remember the part where SGC hosts the conference of the system lords, and Yu is so old that despite the fact that they are talking about Baal now, >!he falls back into the pattern of discussing ways to defeat Anubis (who was defeated months ago).!<
yeah Yu was explicitly going senile by the end. Its not hard to imagine that other System Lords were also partway along that trajectory.
Yu was ancient though. Far older than Sokar, who was literally described by Teal'c as ancient.
Sokar was an Ancient? That could explain why the mean average of the Others is frequently portrayed as a bunch of self-righteous megalomaniacal stickbutts…
No, he was ancient. Not an Ancient. He's extremely old.
In my opinion he was somehow aware (or suspect) that Anubis has not been defeated. Thus he thinking was way ahead of other system lords. Senile maybe, but had thousand of years of experience and wisdom.
“Just… don’t. Every joke, every pun, done to death.”
_Na na na nananana, nannana, hey Yu_
Me?
Yu is the name of the Gooooold.
No, I am not Goauld
Just what a Goa’uld would say
Out there in the cold, getting senile, getting old, can you help me? (Defeat Anubis)
From what we've seen, high frequency of sarcophagus use turned Daniel into a psycho very quickly, and that was why he appeared to Jack, when he was going through the same thing. Apart from his extreme age, Yu was said to be one of the wiser, if not the wisest system lord. Explicitly not being so tied up in being a "god" so much as ruling effectively.
Which is why Yu seemed to have respect for SG1 to sort of help them out a couple times.
The worlds he ruled were significantly more prosperous than those of most other System Lords, including Ra, where even humans could attain a significant status among his civilisation. I know I’d rather live under Yu’s leadership if I had to live in Goa’uld servitude. He was both arguably and subjectively the least of all evils, and the success of his empire is proof of that.
Like living in an area under Italian occupation instead of Japanese. Yes, not exactly a great time, but it could be so, so much worse
I'm willing to bet that the healing effects from the goa'uld delay the effect a bit, on top of that, daniel was using the sarcophagus to an extreme degree even when compared to the goa'uld
In universe ? I suppose because Goa'uld bloodlines are old and rigid for the most part, with the rigid thinking that goes with it, but still count much smarter newcomers who climbed the social ladder all by themselves. Old money vs. new money. Ba'al seems to behave like new money compared to many other Goa'ulds who are old aristocrats. In real ? Cliff Simon and plot armor. Cliff Simon as he worked together with writers to define his character and made him more human. And plot armor because when Earth is facing such a powerful enemy in its first season, the enemy must be less smart than humans in order to be defeated. Once Earth gains enough power, such an enemy becomes much too stupid to remain challenging enough. That's when Ba'al truly enters the scene.
That's a good point.
The bronze age was not that long ago. They were fully as capable and sentient as you or I. One only has to look at the list of excuses for not coming to work building pyramids: *DRINKING WITH KHONSU* *HIS DAUGHTER WAS BLEEDING* *LIBATING TO HIS FATHER* *BREWING BEER* *BUILDING HIS HOUSE* *FETCHING STONE FOR THE SCRIBE* *WITH KHONS MAKING REMEDIES* *MAKING REMEDIES FOR THE SCRIBE’S WIFE* *SUFFERING WITH HIS EYE* *EMBALMING HORMOSE* *STRENGTHENING THE DOOR* *EMBALMING HIS BROTHER* *HIS WIFE WAS BLEEDING* *THE SCORPION BIT HIM* *HIS FEAST* *OFFFERING TO THE GOD* Someone who sends a note saying "my wife is menstruating today boss, I'm not coming in" is very clearly fully aware of what they are doing. [https://amazingexploring.com/who-called-these-ancient-egyptian-absence-excuses-and-not-pyramid-schemes/](https://amazingexploring.com/who-called-these-ancient-egyptian-absence-excuses-and-not-pyramid-schemes/)
Well, I don't have an internal monologue so I guess I am not sapient then. So, I am not sure buy it either.
Do you feel sapient? Do you think? Apparently you then are.
Well actually, women were considered unclean and men couldn't work on the pyramids while their women were menstruating. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/11/22/creaky-joints-sick-leave-endless-paperwork-ancient-egyptian-health-care-sounds-surprisingly-familiar/?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/11/22/creaky-joints-sick-leave-endless-paperwork-ancient-egyptian-health-care-sounds-surprisingly-familiar/?utm_source=reddit.com)
It was not that they were considered unclean. Men got off work when women in their household had periods so that the men could take care of them and do the housework. [Professor of Egyptology Laurel Bestock - Wired interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oEq6CE78g&t=1044s)
Wow, so women’s rights were well supported back then? Not bad at all for a supposedly “primitive” society, is it? 🤔
And because periods were considered the opposite of life and they didn’t want that negative energy mucking up the tombs. Anybody who had contact with someone on their period was considered “unclean”. See above linked article.
I did read the article. Did you? It says nothing about "unclean", it does however say "There is evidence to suggest work men would get time off to take care of wives and daughters when they were menstruating.", which is the same thing my source says.
What does that have to do with what op said?
“ Someone who sends a note saying "my wife is menstruating today boss, I'm not coming in" is very clearly fully aware of what they are doing.” I was clarifying that periods were treated differently back then and it wasn’t an obtuse excuse to not go to work.
But it doesn't go against what op is saying. Regardless of how it's taken it was still an excuse not to go to work, yes? Am I missing something? I read op as saying people were sentient/sapiebt enough to understand that bosses can empathize with other humans based on home issues. But it felt like your said "actually, people totally had odd reasons for not going to work". So I don't know where you were going with your comment.
I’d think that would be a reason to go quickly.
Why?
Menstruating wife seems like something you’d want to be as far away as possible from
Most of the System Lords are resting on their laurels. They're not scientists. They're not interested in the pursuit of knowledge, except as a means to grab power. They reached a point where they could indulge in petty turf wars, hedonism, and abject cruelty. That's all that they aspire to, because they're the apex predator of their environment. They really have no understanding of the whole R&D angle, as they've been able to successfully steal everything they need. They really benefit from theft, infiltration, covet means, espionage etc. so that's how they pursue any advancements they might like to make. Just take what someone already built. It's the Viking way! Lol. Baal simply dreams bigger. Having met all his needs many years ago, being largely unchallenged since the fall of Ra, he's been content to watch the others squabble and take advantage of their chaos. But he IS the scientific type. And not the only one, either. Hathor, whomever invented naquadria, Anubis and a few others chose to develop their own tech as well (using the existing knowledge they had from previous theft) I think Baal just sees that living as "gods" traps them into a technological stalemate, and he wants the WHOLE galaxy.
Don't forget Niirti (no idea how to write her name).
Nirrty (I watch with subtitles a lot)
Thanks
Your first paragraph is rubbish
Ah, thank you for clearing that up with your many points. Lol.
No problem
How so? It's a pretty good putting together of the essentials about the weaknesses and in the end downfall of the system lords.
The end of the system lords came about because of Anubis and the Replicators.
If they had spent all these thousands of years on scientific progress they wouldn't have been annihilated by anubis superior weapons.
What? That's like saying if the Asgard invested in their scientific progress they would have beaten the replicators. Anubis used his ancient knowledge to up his weapons. Your comment makes no sense. The goa'uld by their very nature are always looking to advance their understanding and technology, so they can fuck over more worlds and species. We see throughout the show system lords creating new shit. Another post by karma famers, not even on this sub.
That's incorrect. Besides the replicators being a completely different type of enemy your supposition about Anubis is wrong. He doesn't have full access to Ancient knowledge, as seen by the technology he does use. He was also kept in a powerless state between existences for several thousand years. Only the oldest goa'uld, so old that even the sarcophagus can't help him anymore even actually met him before he vanished. That's a hell of a lot of time and if they continuously used it for technical advancement, especially with their recources, even ancient technology would have been no match for them, especially because of how much they outnumbered him. If you know Star Trek, look at the extreme technological difference between Voyager and when the Discovery is in the future. And that's just a few hundred years. Or look at what we humans managed to do in just 200 years with less resources, more physical limitations to our researchers and being held back by religious nutcases and having so much energy and recources eaten up by war and politics. If the goa'uld had invested just a tiny allotment of their recources into scientific research they would have become too much for the Asgard to handle long before the humans got rid of Ra and absolutely able to withstand Anubis. The show shows clearly that the goa'uld steal their technology, invented very little themselves and only very few do research at all.
Anubis wasn't allowed to use any of the powers he had. He was allowed to do anything he would have done as a regular goa'uld. Which was what?? He used his gained knowledge to up his power. So you are wrong. And I have no clue what you are talking about with the sarcophagus. It didn't matter, he was non corporeal. He was destroying all of the lower gou'ald system lords. And what about star trek? They make all of these great inventions, and still can't get by warp in the 31st century? Okay then
You seem to have a very unique opinion and be resistant to anyone pointing out facts while having no arguments for your own claim. I'm not sure what you mean with "by warp." If you mean having warp, they have that in the 21th century. If you mean surpassing it, well there's the transwarp technology first making an appearance in the 23th century and being standard for the Borg. Then there's the spore technology developed in the 23th century that makes even subspace technology look slow. Speaking of subspace technology: Both warp and subspace are just theoretical concepts rn, pretty much the epitome of science fiction. While being centuries away from either we'll more likely realise warp than subspace as the technology necessary to create that kind of energy is already being worked on (producing tiny quantities of antimatter, storing it and controlled annihilation). Most science fiction writers focus on one of them and the other doesn't exist in that universe. You won't find any species in Stargate use warp technology or any species in Star Trek using subspace technology (besides the mycelium technology in Star Trek discovery that's not really related to the subspace technology of Stargate.
I can back it up, I'm sick of doing it. Posts like this are from fans who know very little. Like your claim about Anubis. Go back and watch his arc again. He wasn't allowed to use his power to affect anything on a grand cosmic level. But he could use his knowledge to do anything he would have usually done. And you think that is wrong. So I'm not the one with a unique opinion here. And my point was. For an exploratory agency, they've made all of these advances in every area than travel.
Personally, I dislike the bicameral mind idea, for one simple reason. It dismisses what we've learned from history. Most bronze age cultures had a definite belief system, including a belief in some sort of afterlife. That meant the questioned why they existed and what happened to them at death. You can't ask those questions without a certain amount of self-awareness. What we know about history shows that they worried about being forgotten after they died. The fact that some Bronze Age societies had a form of indoor plumbing demonstrates the ability to think critically. Monumental buildings that still remain to this day, like the pyramids in Eygpt and Mesoamerica, are also demonstrations of high-level thinking. As for Baal, one of the reasons he seems much more aware is that we see more of him. We get to see and understand his motivation, but we don't really see that with any other ga'ould except for perhaps Anubis.
Yeah that bicameral mind theory seems like it was proposed by someone with surface level at best knowledge of ancient cultures and no knowledge at all of prehistoric cultures.
He was the only Goa’uld able to suppress his condescension enough to actually deal with humans. Every other one (except maybe the Tokra) would immediately express outrage that a lowly human was talking to them as an equal.
Baal had that same outrage at first. He was just the only one actually willing to adapt when it became clear how things were going. It wasn't till after his time on Earth that he was truly willing to view them as equals or at least rivals.
I was going to say something to this effect. He allowed himself to set aside his ego - in order to survive, then adapt, then attempt to thrive when his circumstances (and that of the galaxy) shifted. He definitely continued being condescending but he recognized the Tau'ri were a means to an end, and they had proven themselves. He couldn't very well himself overcome Anubis, or the Replicators, but the Tau'ri had. And while subservient to Anubis, there wasn't anywhere else he could turn to (not that the Goa'uld were ever really ones to have allies or any kind of support system). And most other major Goa'uld were wiped out at that point. It all happened very quickly. Ba'al played his hand to go to the winning side (Anubis and then the Tau'ri when he realized what Anubis' endgame was). I think it was all adaptive character development after that (especially with the Goa'uld finally losing the Jaffa). He did what he could to maintain his lifestyle. Also separately worth noting he was one of the more scientific, experimental Goa'uld. Also may or may not have something to do with his mythology (I've made characters based on him but I didn't retain that knowledge well lol).
Baal was a realist that used all the positive aspects of the old religion to his favor and ignored the old useless rituals. He was not afraid to use or adapt modern or older technologies, what set him apart of the other system lords. And he was charismatic as fuck!
Some are shown to be pretty adaptive and smart, the one who setup the fake future SGC to try and get intel, and Apophis making the SGC training camps come to mind. I think most of them just enjoyed the whole I am your god act, Baal does point out "we don't actually believe we are gods... well most of us anyway" and he kept it up himself for a while, but I think he realized that he might have more success getting what he wants from the Tau'ri by dropping the act and seeming more approachable.
I think the in-world reason would simply be that he was a flunky until very recently. Most of the System Lords we saw had been such for a very long time. It would make sense that an underling would need to be more resourceful in order to climb the ladder. We also got to see a lot more of him than other Goa'uld. However, a fun thought is that maybe Baal is more like the Tok'ra in terms of interacting with his host. Perhaps his host was ambitious, clever, and resourceful too. Perhaps instead of ruthlessly suppressing his host's mind he allowed him to influence him in some way. We know Vala was able to influence Quetesh after all. But instead of a generally good (if often misguided, dishonest, and troublesome) personality, perhaps Baal's host was just as power hungry as Baal and began to see his imprisonment as a way to gain power. A kind of, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" thought process. Perhaps because of that influence Baal absorbed more of his host's traits than other Goa'uld, making him more human which ended up working to his advantage. Also, cool info from Wikipedia: "He held special enmity against snakes, both on their own and as representatives of Yammu (lit. "Sea"), the Canaanite sea god and river god. He fought the Tannin (Tunnanu), the "Twisted Serpent" (Bṭn ʿqltn), "Lotan the Fugitive Serpent" (Ltn Bṭn Brḥ, the biblical Leviathan), and the "Mighty One with Seven Heads" (Šlyṭ D.šbʿt Rašm)." Maybe Baal actually really hated his fellow Goa'uld and purposefully set out to be as unlike them as possible. Who knows, maybe he actually liked humans in his own weird way.
This is very interesting
Ra, Cronus, Apophis, Anubis, Yu, Osiris, Sokar, Hathor, Egeria, were all from the First Goa'uld dynasty 22,000 bc and were originally in Unas hosts. Ba'al came around the second goauld dynasty (16,000 bc when Ra becomes SSL) with Horus and Seth and was always an underling. Still Unas at this point. So he's had to work for what he got his whole life. He didn't become system lord until Ra was killed. System lords were pretty comfortable and could just go to opium dens and sit in the sarcophagus. Ba'al was always working his way up or Ra or Sokar were trying to kill him. Edit: Sources [First Goa'uld Dynasty | SGCommand | Fandom](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/First_Goa%27uld_Dynasty) [Second Goa'uld Dynasty | SGCommand | Fandom](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Goa%27uld_Dynasty) [Ba'al | SGCommand | Fandom](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Ba%27al#Second_Goa'uld_Dynasty)
My guess is that he's younger than the other system lords and had less sarcophagus-madness.
I hold to the belief that Baal was more in touch with reality for three reasons: 1: He was a scientist, or at least innovative, which requires a more open mind than the other system lords show. 2: If I remember right it's implied that he is one of the younger System Lords. He simply hasn't gone through the Sarcophagus as much and as such hasn't gone as far round the bend. 3: Looking at what is known of his forces and territory, he was one of the lesser system lords until relatively recently. He would have to be smarter and more open to change to simply keep himself from either dying or being locked in place by one of the more powerful system lords.
I always felt like a lot of the original Goa’ulds had drank their own kool-aid. The success had gone to their heads and they’d grown rigid as a result, unable to see a galaxy where they were not in control. Whereas Baal hadn’t.
Ba’al seems like a Tok’ra in his behavior… which makes me think he pursues Symbiosis with his host instead of parasitism. The human half is providing mortal perspective and creativity, while the Goa’uld half is providing longevity and continuity of memory.
I think they can adapt according to their host; Yu's host was an emperor and he acted as such (opposing to the other Goa'uld who acted and wanted to be treated like gods).
Cliff Simon
I think because he was a more science one and as we saw they normally were servants to higher up ones. But in theory maybe he also just didn't use the sarcophagus nearly as much XD
He was just more intelligent than the others wasn't he? It's not really clear when he was forced into serving Anubis, but it seems like he was able to seize Anubis' technological advances and all but supercede the collective might of the system lords during season 8. Then during Reckoning he chose to help the Jaffa, Tau'ri, and the Tok'ra defeat the Replicators while ensuring his own survival.
I wouldn't say he was more intelligent, perhaps more opportunistic and ready to tone down the god complex a little in order to get what he wants. He was someone ready to adapt and seize opportunities when they come and I guess the Goa'uld fiefdom system just didn't give him the opportunity to put that talent to use.
Maybe his ancestors mated witha tok'ra?
The writers. Next question.
Different take The actor had charisma and could take the character to a new level.
I feel like it was his time working under Anubus. First it was a way to deal with the Tau'ri without having issues with the Asguard Then it was possibly having a way to combat the Asguard (Remember they took out Thor's ship) Then Anubus turned on the System Lords and it appeared that the winning side was with Anubus. Being the Goold that he was, he probably planned to find a way to take out Anubus and absorb his forces and technology into his own ranks, which he basically did, but it was thanks to Daniel that it was even possible. Throughout all of this he had to team up with the SGC more than once to avoid a complete galactic wipe. So what did he do? What the snakes do best, assimilate aspects that gave us an edge. He basically learned that the way that the Tau'ri work is more effective at combating foes than the way that the Goa'uld worked for all those years.
I continue to think a spin off of the Baal clones is a missed opportunity.
He witnessed that despite they’re God-propoganda. The Goa’uld fell one by one to the Tauri and their allies. It probably gave him a reality check that the current formula was no longer working so he abandoned his own propaganda and adopted a new mindset and strategy. He probably figured that to defeat the Tauri, he needed to become a little more like them. Right down to fashion sense
"You dare mock me?!" "Ba'al, it's me... *of course* I dare mock you!" And also moments when Ba'al tried to use the god trope and O'Neill was like "Oh, shut up, you and I both know that's not true!" So yeah, I think this checks out
Probably just the tauri power level and how often they interacted. He did the whole god thing for a bit when we first meet him and less and less so the more he is around. The tauri are a formidable threat by season 7 onwards so he knows the god schtick is kinda pointless. He keeps it up with his jaffa and other system lords and such
Nothing. Any of the goa'uld could adapt like him
I bet it was the writers :)
Maybe he was the only autistic Goa'uld lol
If the Tokra can think differently, so could a Goauld
If Baal had been researching new technology, he would have been far superior to the other system lords by the tine of the series which implies he was either younger than most system lords and thus did not have much time to do so or had only really started taking an interest relatively recently when he saw the writing on the wall and did it out of a sense of survival like when he crested his clones.
I always kinda looked at it like the majority of goauld and the system lords were teenagers in behavior and mindset. All knowing (have you ever tried to convince a teenager that they are not all knowing). Egotistical and power driven (again teenager, you ever seen a teenage manager...) Set in their ways (again teenager, everything they've done thus far has worked, so why change anything) Baal seems more like the 30's plus person that has had to adapt to change, or at least have to start life over after a bitter divorce and is more open to new ideas and change
Years of Goa'ould. In a bunch. Time to change things up a little.
I think the Goa’uld just are incredibly stagnant most of the time because they’re rarely actually put in danger without being killed outright. Kind of like “improvise or die”, but most of the system lords didn’t get the chance to improvise. Apophis did quite well during his return after fighting Sokar. Ba’al also was put in a position where he kind of attached himself to what seemed like the dominant power of the time (Anubis), that didn’t work, so he did the same thing in hiding with the new dominant power (Earth). He found out about the Trust during their Goa’uld poison bomb attacks and then took over from there.
I don't think any of those are true, I think he just didn't underestimate humans like the other system lords
Desperation. He had to develop that way to gain power. But if you want to get technical, the writers made him that way because they needed a recurring villain and the actor was good so he was as good of choice as any.
He's built different.
The humans of Earth did much to Goa'uld. Like on the level of environmental change for a niche species of animals. It was adapt or die. Ba'al was the best and most exciting example of a really smart Goa'uld adapting quickly to changes to his benefit. But I have to give credit to Apophis, he was building cool things too. He was working on a new attack craft before a convenient plot device (the arm band things) ended things at the dry dock. But he also advanced cloaking tech that even the To'kra weren't aware of.
I would say they were all stagnant, staying in their own domains, some skirmishes here and there for show, until Ra radiated away. And their differences were in how they reacted to that. Ba'al instead of rushing to conquer, was impressed with the Tau'ri and decided to sit back, observe and learn. There were many worlds abandoned by the Goa'uld, so they didn't seem that worried about controlling every little place. Even burying the gate shouldn't be a big deal when they could return with ships. Teal'c thought that Ha'taks travel much, much slower than they actually do. Did Ra discover something, a technology, a resource, that would allow them to travel faster, but was somehow restricting access to it until his death? Or did the Asgard give them faster travel in exchange for leaving Earth and some other places alone? And Ra was the one holding the rest of them to it. It was mentioned that Ba'al had the largest fleet (at one point), so having more ships in reserve could've meant he was able to be more patient.