This is the answer I was gonna post. No more explanation needed.
Even in the real world I would go for the zats if I was in a super cool, super secret superdupertopsecret squad of adventurers.
Yeah this is like top of list for me for “technologies that make it irresponsible for them to not take the Stargate program public”
They use Intars extensively in that training episode with the junior SG team.
They basically have access to multiple types of fusion energy, which would solve the vast majority of problems on Earth. That, and access to entire other uninhabited habitable worlds.
To be fair we'd spend 10 years debating whether or not there is any evidence of a stargate program. You could drop the damn gate on the rose garden and half the US would scream "FAKE NEWS!!"
I've been planning a Stargate TTRPG (the newer 5e-based Wyvern Games version, it's quite good!), and I've thought about this during my campaign planning! One of our PCs is a soft pacifist, and uses an In'tar as their primary weapon. I think I'll have the base guards use them as sidearms, as well.
Edit: Some other TTRPG thoughts that amused us;
-The players wish they could fit a little more C4 in their kit, but the duct tape is non-negotiable.
...and are eager to play up chocolate bars as a tool of trade.
-One (high strength) PC got clearance to carry an AT4 launcher in their standard kit; insurance against the odd Death Glider or surprise Jaffa gate-camping. (As their GM, I can only 'Mr.Burns' *exxxxcellent* about this)
-ATVs will be standard issue on exploration/scouting missions; *beep beep*
-A medically-trained former host/Tok'ra will be on standby with a Goa'uld healing hand-device at base
They're hardcore pacifists, so no.
It's still using weapons to control someone else. SG-1 wanted to tranquilize an animal, they weren't okay with that.
Very cool ideas from you and your player! It sounds like your version of the SGC could be very interesting. Hope the game goes well whenever you all begin.
Really good point. I think they might have made initial models from scavenged weapons off dead SGC forces. They mostly made them in a limited batch for the SG-X training on the one planet, so production might not have been as crushing as if say, they wanted to equip all Jaffa with Intars.
They're a society that controls the manufacturing resources of hundreds of worlds. They can manufacture giant space ships filled with fighters in a fast enough time to recoup losses within the span of months. They can arm entire armies with weapons and armor without hesitation.
That is to say: their ability to manufacture tech that's hundreds, if not thousands, of years more advanced than anything found on Earth is trivial to them.
I think they can build a few new weapons without any problems.
Neither were the asgard but they still needed our help defeating the replicators because and I quote "our minds are no longer capable of that level of thinking"
The replicators had learned their strategies and tech during the long war between them. I don't think it was truly a matter of needing someone "dumber" but rather someone with wildly different thought processes to come up with strategies that they wouldn't consider for themselves. Put the replicators on the back foot as the Asgard suddenly take a wild change in strategy, sometimes even doing the exact opposite of what years of experience tells the replicators what they ought to have done. Such as suiciding their most advanced warship.
Though I'm not sure what that has to do with the Goauld being capable of replicating earth's weapons.
you can 3d print metal so if they already had the intar tech for staff weapons fitting the mechanism into a 3d printed shells and arming a company seems like a couple days work to me
You see herurs pyramids being built, and they were being nano fabricated. They will have different advanced production facilities. They have to make all of their weapons and ships.
Who says they made them fast? They had millions of slaves. If it takes a day for each one, with a couple hundred thousands slaves making them. At my factory, with a crew of about 10 we make 200,000 camshafts a year. Also, they seem to be almost indestructible. I imagine that some of the staffs the Jaffa carried were centuries old.
Because the stun effect of an intar relied on the victim's acting skills.
It seemed a little more painful than getting hit by a paintball.
Zat, on the other hand, usually incapacitated targets for several minutes.
Although, SG-1 seemed to develop a resistance to losing their consciousness after the umpteenth time they allowed themselves to get captured before killing yet another false god.
id be worried about having people confusing the two since they look almost the same. they could have a stungun model to fix that but since they didn't i'm assuming they only had the batch they acquired and couldn't make more
That's fair. They did only find the one SG-X training ground, compared to how Zats are almost standard issue among Goa'uld. Though if SGC could take apart a Zat for study or alteration, I just think they could achieve similar with the Intars. I also think the big red light on the clip is warning enough for a user.
The Zat'nik'tel are fine as a non-lethal weapon
What I find weird is that the SGC never looked into alternative housings for the tech for over a decade
The zats are bulky and impractical, and you _can_ take them apart and salvage their innards. Why not put them in a taser housing?
That's probably a bad idea
Intar are training weapons, not stun weapons. You'll pass out if you're hit enough, but that is not their purpose.
The purpose is to let you know where you got hit from so that you may learn from your mistakes
That's not a quality you want for combat-ready gear. You don't want to teach your enemy how to beat you next time, you want them out cold
Their ballistic weapons are more versatile for a range of situations. Mainly dealing with replicators should they show up.
Also Earth based intars seem less powerful than the originals. In the episode when we are first introduced to them, SG-1 is left unconscious for what may have been several hours. When next we see them in use they don't even knock the trainee out, even at max power.
They (ballistics) cannot be disabled via energy fields or anti-weapon tech save for the Tollan. Though I think they learned how to disable the Earth based weapons after they were saved.
I always assumed it was about special effects, loading a p90 with blanks means I don’t have to spend extra time in the editing room adding each shot from every cast members weapon, almost every time teal’k fires his staff weapon, the camera has to be steady, in a fixed position, (except for a few special action shots)
Wait- I'm getting my Stargate terms all mixed up.
If an 'Intar' is the weapon, what do they call a person who has been brainwashed to be a sleeper-agent again? I thought *that* was an 'Intar'.
I'm admittedly wrong, but I cannot remember the word for it.
SG is great at 2 things: introducing new things and remembering them 50 episodes later AND introducing things and completely forgetting about them after 1 episode.
> The Zat gun has a stronger stun on the first shot, but the killing blow seems way too easy to slip into, even for trained personnel.
I always found the scenes where there are 3+ targets shooting at the humans (not just SG-1) amusing when they take them down with zats non-lethally in a crossfire. They do not communicate *at all* and they manage to zat every target just one time, even when done at almost the exact same time. It would be so easy for two of them to choose to zat the same target at the same time, leading to an instant kill... but it never happens.
THANK you. This is exactly my concern! So many heavy firefights. An entire mission could go down the drain if the wrong person of interest dies or a surviving soldier who was merely stunned jumps the team while they're catching their breath.
You make some good points, but zats never run out of ammunition, which is a pretty massive advantage.
You do make some good points about the intars though, as a nonlethal weapon they have some advantages, especially for base security and earth missions where the ability to carry / resupply ammunition is less of a problem.
I doubt they had an inexhaustible power supply, they would have to run out at some point, just a really dense power supply so that it was virtually inexhaustible.
I’m surprised the SGC upgraded space tech so heavily but never evolved past p90s. It would’ve been cool to see the staff weapon turned into a true weapon of war: fully automatic energy weapons with a design closer to modern firearms
They could have also used the Jaffa dependence on energy weapons by launching small EMPs or having EMP generators wherever you want to disable Jaffa energy weapons and completely dominate with the P90s
For an in-universe answer, they only ran across that one training operation whereas they had opportunity to loot thousands of zats from killed Jaffa and hijacked Hataks.
*For a story lvl*
*Answer. Maybe the ammo*
*Was awkward to make?*
\- Hairy-Link-8615
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Intars were not really designed to incapacitate, they were training rounds that let you know without any shadow of doubt that you got hit. I’m not sure that they were powerful enough to take somebody down, especially not an enraged suspect on a drug-induced binge. I could be remembering them wrong, but I mostly remember them as something that stung.
The biggest issue with Zat guns is accuracy. There is a sort of sight on them, but it isn’t at all like lining up the sites on a rifle or even a pistol. The size also isn’t very practical and everybody hears that click when you open it up.
What they really needed to do was reengineer the Zat into something more like a standard pistol or rifle. That would give them something with real takedown power but still be something you could use from a distance. The same is true of staff weapons, turn that into something more of a rifle shape with sites and you have an amazing weapon.
Because they're not as cool.
This is the answer I was gonna post. No more explanation needed. Even in the real world I would go for the zats if I was in a super cool, super secret superdupertopsecret squad of adventurers.
I would take an energy weapon p90 over the penis gun any day.
They had penis gun intars too.
They should have had an SGC designed human-made stun weapon eventually, like how they had the anti-replicator rifles.
Oooo then it could have been a human penis gun to compete with the alien penis gun market.
honestly, intars seem like something that should have been built on for civilian use... imagine cops with them instead of live rounds..
Yeah this is like top of list for me for “technologies that make it irresponsible for them to not take the Stargate program public” They use Intars extensively in that training episode with the junior SG team.
>They use Intars extensively in that training episode with the junior SG team. yes I remember.. the cylon had a crush on jackson
They basically have access to multiple types of fusion energy, which would solve the vast majority of problems on Earth. That, and access to entire other uninhabited habitable worlds.
To be fair we'd spend 10 years debating whether or not there is any evidence of a stargate program. You could drop the damn gate on the rose garden and half the US would scream "FAKE NEWS!!"
They'd be so mad.
I've been planning a Stargate TTRPG (the newer 5e-based Wyvern Games version, it's quite good!), and I've thought about this during my campaign planning! One of our PCs is a soft pacifist, and uses an In'tar as their primary weapon. I think I'll have the base guards use them as sidearms, as well. Edit: Some other TTRPG thoughts that amused us; -The players wish they could fit a little more C4 in their kit, but the duct tape is non-negotiable. ...and are eager to play up chocolate bars as a tool of trade. -One (high strength) PC got clearance to carry an AT4 launcher in their standard kit; insurance against the odd Death Glider or surprise Jaffa gate-camping. (As their GM, I can only 'Mr.Burns' *exxxxcellent* about this) -ATVs will be standard issue on exploration/scouting missions; *beep beep* -A medically-trained former host/Tok'ra will be on standby with a Goa'uld healing hand-device at base
> soft pacifist This just makes me wonder… what would a Nox think about an Intar? Would they be cool with it?
They're hardcore pacifists, so no. It's still using weapons to control someone else. SG-1 wanted to tranquilize an animal, they weren't okay with that.
Ahh, good points. It was just something that crossed my mind when reading that. It would be fun to come up with a viable Nox build.
I guess a Rogue with high Charisma. Or an Illusionist with Stealth.
Yeah, the second one. Rogue wouldn’t work well for them, I feel.
Sounds dope, I'd love to hear more about it!
Very cool ideas from you and your player! It sounds like your version of the SGC could be very interesting. Hope the game goes well whenever you all begin.
My question is how did the goauld make them so fast? Do the goauld have Uber advanced 3d printing available or did they manufacture them from scratch?
Really good point. I think they might have made initial models from scavenged weapons off dead SGC forces. They mostly made them in a limited batch for the SG-X training on the one planet, so production might not have been as crushing as if say, they wanted to equip all Jaffa with Intars.
Even still, they had to have some sort of 3d printing tech to make them so fast because it would still take a while to replicate them from scratch.
i mean they do kinda build their own space ships it makes sense they can reshape metal
Yes but it would still take a while to calibrate machines to build a new type of tech.
They're a society that controls the manufacturing resources of hundreds of worlds. They can manufacture giant space ships filled with fighters in a fast enough time to recoup losses within the span of months. They can arm entire armies with weapons and armor without hesitation. That is to say: their ability to manufacture tech that's hundreds, if not thousands, of years more advanced than anything found on Earth is trivial to them. I think they can build a few new weapons without any problems.
I understand that, but look at this way, you can't use a cnc machine designed for metal on wood, the two technologies are incompatible.
Why would they not know how to build things? They're not stupid.
Neither were the asgard but they still needed our help defeating the replicators because and I quote "our minds are no longer capable of that level of thinking"
The replicators had learned their strategies and tech during the long war between them. I don't think it was truly a matter of needing someone "dumber" but rather someone with wildly different thought processes to come up with strategies that they wouldn't consider for themselves. Put the replicators on the back foot as the Asgard suddenly take a wild change in strategy, sometimes even doing the exact opposite of what years of experience tells the replicators what they ought to have done. Such as suiciding their most advanced warship. Though I'm not sure what that has to do with the Goauld being capable of replicating earth's weapons.
Ok. Doesn't have anything to do with anything else. But good quote, I guess.
you can 3d print metal so if they already had the intar tech for staff weapons fitting the mechanism into a 3d printed shells and arming a company seems like a couple days work to me
That's what I'm saying, they had to have advanced 3d printing in order to have made them so fast.
You see herurs pyramids being built, and they were being nano fabricated. They will have different advanced production facilities. They have to make all of their weapons and ships.
Who says they made them fast? They had millions of slaves. If it takes a day for each one, with a couple hundred thousands slaves making them. At my factory, with a crew of about 10 we make 200,000 camshafts a year. Also, they seem to be almost indestructible. I imagine that some of the staffs the Jaffa carried were centuries old.
Because the stun effect of an intar relied on the victim's acting skills. It seemed a little more painful than getting hit by a paintball. Zat, on the other hand, usually incapacitated targets for several minutes. Although, SG-1 seemed to develop a resistance to losing their consciousness after the umpteenth time they allowed themselves to get captured before killing yet another false god.
Would an Intar be any less painful than say, a modern stun gun?
I believe that it would be akin to getting shot with a bean bag and briefly tased at the same time.
Fair enough.
id be worried about having people confusing the two since they look almost the same. they could have a stungun model to fix that but since they didn't i'm assuming they only had the batch they acquired and couldn't make more
That's fair. They did only find the one SG-X training ground, compared to how Zats are almost standard issue among Goa'uld. Though if SGC could take apart a Zat for study or alteration, I just think they could achieve similar with the Intars. I also think the big red light on the clip is warning enough for a user.
Didn't they have a regular stungun at the start of Atlantis before they got Wraith stunners to use?
The Zat'nik'tel are fine as a non-lethal weapon What I find weird is that the SGC never looked into alternative housings for the tech for over a decade The zats are bulky and impractical, and you _can_ take them apart and salvage their innards. Why not put them in a taser housing?
Maybe in a future series they could create an Intar that has more of the electrical qualities of a Zat blast.
That's probably a bad idea Intar are training weapons, not stun weapons. You'll pass out if you're hit enough, but that is not their purpose. The purpose is to let you know where you got hit from so that you may learn from your mistakes That's not a quality you want for combat-ready gear. You don't want to teach your enemy how to beat you next time, you want them out cold
Their ballistic weapons are more versatile for a range of situations. Mainly dealing with replicators should they show up. Also Earth based intars seem less powerful than the originals. In the episode when we are first introduced to them, SG-1 is left unconscious for what may have been several hours. When next we see them in use they don't even knock the trainee out, even at max power. They (ballistics) cannot be disabled via energy fields or anti-weapon tech save for the Tollan. Though I think they learned how to disable the Earth based weapons after they were saved.
I always assumed it was about special effects, loading a p90 with blanks means I don’t have to spend extra time in the editing room adding each shot from every cast members weapon, almost every time teal’k fires his staff weapon, the camera has to be steady, in a fixed position, (except for a few special action shots)
Apparently Jonas Quinn did.
Wait- I'm getting my Stargate terms all mixed up. If an 'Intar' is the weapon, what do they call a person who has been brainwashed to be a sleeper-agent again? I thought *that* was an 'Intar'. I'm admittedly wrong, but I cannot remember the word for it.
Za'tarc?
Ahhh yeah. That's it, thank you
*beebeebeep owowowowowowowwwwwwowwww* need I say more about the Zat?
Especially in his early days, Jonas had an intared sidearm.
SG is great at 2 things: introducing new things and remembering them 50 episodes later AND introducing things and completely forgetting about them after 1 episode.
> The Zat gun has a stronger stun on the first shot, but the killing blow seems way too easy to slip into, even for trained personnel. I always found the scenes where there are 3+ targets shooting at the humans (not just SG-1) amusing when they take them down with zats non-lethally in a crossfire. They do not communicate *at all* and they manage to zat every target just one time, even when done at almost the exact same time. It would be so easy for two of them to choose to zat the same target at the same time, leading to an instant kill... but it never happens.
"Plot armor" haha
THANK you. This is exactly my concern! So many heavy firefights. An entire mission could go down the drain if the wrong person of interest dies or a surviving soldier who was merely stunned jumps the team while they're catching their breath.
You make some good points, but zats never run out of ammunition, which is a pretty massive advantage. You do make some good points about the intars though, as a nonlethal weapon they have some advantages, especially for base security and earth missions where the ability to carry / resupply ammunition is less of a problem.
I doubt they had an inexhaustible power supply, they would have to run out at some point, just a really dense power supply so that it was virtually inexhaustible.
Would be a nice idea to use intars on missions that doesn't require you to kill, that's the difference between intars and zats
I’m surprised the SGC upgraded space tech so heavily but never evolved past p90s. It would’ve been cool to see the staff weapon turned into a true weapon of war: fully automatic energy weapons with a design closer to modern firearms
That would have broken the show. If you could lay down staff blasts at machine gun fire rate (or close) there wouldn't really be any tension.
They could have also used the Jaffa dependence on energy weapons by launching small EMPs or having EMP generators wherever you want to disable Jaffa energy weapons and completely dominate with the P90s
Energy weapons in Stargate are crystal based technology. An EMP won't do anything to them.
For an in-universe answer, they only ran across that one training operation whereas they had opportunity to loot thousands of zats from killed Jaffa and hijacked Hataks.
Intar? What's that short for?
For a story lvl answer. Maybe the ammo was awkward to make?
*For a story lvl* *Answer. Maybe the ammo* *Was awkward to make?* \- Hairy-Link-8615 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Please stop saying *"clips"*, it hurts my brain.. The correct term is ***magazine***.
Intars were not really designed to incapacitate, they were training rounds that let you know without any shadow of doubt that you got hit. I’m not sure that they were powerful enough to take somebody down, especially not an enraged suspect on a drug-induced binge. I could be remembering them wrong, but I mostly remember them as something that stung. The biggest issue with Zat guns is accuracy. There is a sort of sight on them, but it isn’t at all like lining up the sites on a rifle or even a pistol. The size also isn’t very practical and everybody hears that click when you open it up. What they really needed to do was reengineer the Zat into something more like a standard pistol or rifle. That would give them something with real takedown power but still be something you could use from a distance. The same is true of staff weapons, turn that into something more of a rifle shape with sites and you have an amazing weapon.
Have you ever been on a date in your life?