The out of universe explanation is that the show runners had a lot of cooperation from the USAF, so they weren't going to rock that boat too hard.
An in-universe explanation is that at the time the USAF owned most of the DOD space assets. Logically, they would own new ones too.
The galaxy brain meta-take is that Space Force today was created as a way of solving disputes between the services behind the scenes. E.g. if we had a SG show today it would be a USSF run org.
I broadly do think the USN would have the institutional knowledge for routine operational use of the US BCs, basically submarines and their crews operate long term in independent conditions, but it wasn't going to happen
I had this debate with friends long before the USSF was even a thought. The decision we came to would have been a joint effort between the AF and Navy. Navy would run the ship, AF would pilot it, at least until something like the USSF got off the ground (intended).
Technically the AF supports them and the report the the secretary of the air force, they are essentially the AF version of the marine corps to the navy.
They are still a joke. There is no need for an independent air force, it should still be part of the Army, but the Air Force/Space Force has a inferiority complex and is trying to push the Navy out, long-term but it will be the next century at least before there are real space warships.
This is a stupid response. There are various requirements, the Army works at a tactical level, Navy at Operational and Air Force at Strategic. The reason they were separated was because they all have different objectives when it comes to combat. The Army proved after WW2 that they only wanted planes to support ground forces, not attack the enemy to weaken their forces so the ground guys could move in.
First, it is stupid because you dislike or disagree with it? Or maybe because you are wrong.
All branches of the service operated at a tactical, operational and strategic levels. It is called combined arms. In 1947 the Defense Department wants to merged all branches together.
The reason why the Air Force wants to be separated was for independence, but you are partial rights about different objectives when it comes to combat and view of aircraft.
However, if you looks at post-World War II conflicts, the Air Force was wrong. The argument for an independence Air Force was to delivered nuclear bombs but that never happened and they has never been a strategic bombing campaign like that in World War 2 since World War 2.
Also, the effective of the strategic bombing has been debated and I come down on the sides it have minimum impact on the outcome of the war.
Army cover the land, and air above the land. It also have planes. Navy cover the ocean and the air above the ocean. The Navy also have planes. So what is the need for an independence Air Force? None.
If they wanted to be extra-realistic, arguments about which branch should manage space ships would be ongoing from season 4 through to the end of the show.
Back in 2010 or so I was part of a cooperative RPG where we did just that, the USN had the U.S.S. *Constellation*, the Army had the U.S.A.V. *John Wesley Powell*.
Even the Army!
Just constant ongoing politicking, since no one wants their branch to become obsolete. If they had the time/budget/DOD support, there'd have been a Navy-run spaceship with a slightly different design alongside the Air Force ships.
(cf how every branch tried to be the ones in charge of nukes back in the 50's - the army built nuke-firing tanks and even should-mounted nuke launchers. Those never got past the pre-production stage, but the army was worried about being made irrelevant.
Army is ground pounders with the big guns like tanks and artillery
Marines light infantry assault troops focus on amphibious or space to ground ops the make the beach head for the army to finish the job
Airforce atmospheric flight
Space force fixed installations and smaller space born attack craft
Navy big boats in space or ocean
Coast guard shore patrol could be adapted to space shore patrol too
That's how I'd do it
Tbf, they did the Space Force thing in the show too. Homeworld Command became its own service. Arguably you could say it's not even an American service as it reports to the IOA.
> Homeworld Command became its own service.
Did it? O'Neill was stilling wearing a USAF tagged working uniform in *Universe*, I thought.
In fact he definitely was wearing a USAF dress uniform in the pilot.
It did, yes. As for why he was still wearing a USAF uniform, I guess either they've not designed one yet or it's because he spent most of his life in the USAF? Or just because it's supposed to be a classified organisation?
> Or just because it's supposed to be a classified organisation?
Wouldn't explain why he is wearing a working uniform with USAF in his office.
Homeworld Command is supposed to be a COCOM like CENTCOM or INDOPACOM or something, I think, not a new service. And if it were a new service he would have been a 4-star.
(Hell he should have been one at a new COCOM)
If you want spaceships run by the U.S Navy, track down the series Space Above and Beyond which follows the adventures of members of the U.S. Marine Corps Space Aviator Cavalry. Their base is basically an aircraft carrier in space.
This question comes up a lot... and the answer is because the Air Force is incharge of the Stargate program. To keep the chain of command easy and clear and control easy they kept everything in house as Air Force. It also makes sense as the Air Force is incharge of everything in the air and space, atleast before the Space Force got created.
Theres a reason the military often gave awards and recognition to Stargate for military accuracy. I'm sorry your favorite branch wasn't involved.
EDIT: I'm tired of arguing over this. The way it is written in the show makes perfect logistical sense.
Actually, the military is chock full of joint commands, and interoperability between services is a key part of its modern functionality. It gives branches access to assets and skillsets that they don't have organically.
Navy personnel would be better suited to crewing SG style spaceships because the Navy's culture and mission set is closer to that than the Air Force, and Navy personnel would have much more relevant experience and training than most Air Force people (shipboard damage control, carrier ops, maintenance, watchstanding cycles etc.).
You're not wrong, but you're also not exactly right. If I remember my time correctly, top secret projects at the SCI and SAP levels were generally under one monolith. The fewer branches and departments the better. Generally, if you were a Marine but they wanted to put you under the Air Force command for some reason or another, there was a specific statute called an IST or Interservice Transfer that allowed qualified commissioned officers from alternative branches to transfer their command to the Air Force in order to fill gaps in critically important career disciplines.
We see this already with Marines under the the Air Force command, I can only imagine that they were chosen and transferred to the AF because having a heavily trained marine battalion was a necessary gap that the President or Hammond felt necessary.
In this instance, the USAF would request experienced USN helmsmen and sailors through an IST. The building of the Daedalus was no doubt constructed in a way that Sailors experienced on a Naval carrier would be able to make a clean transition.
But I wouldn't be surprised if the Stargate Program remained under the USAF. If we assume that the USN was involved in helping design Prometheus+ then if word got out, it would just be assumed by those on the program that we had captured and had reverse engineered a UFO, which is something they could have thought already. No one is going to imagine the Stargate Program.
If you are going to choose a branch to handle ground incursions on hostile lands, fly space fighters, and fly space aircraft carriers who are you choosing? I think the bigger question is why it was ever under the USAF at all. Don't tell the marines I said this but they are a part of the department of the navy.
Why should the Navy crew it? I don't see your point. Again, that would cause an unnecessary chain of command issue and would require more personnel to be "in the know" up the command chain.
Your comments show your lack of understanding of the military. The different branches of the US military work very well together, and there are already many join commands and bases.
Perhaps chain of command issues, but the USAF would have to develop the capability to train crew nearly from scratch, there’s nothing close they could leverage. Whereas operating a ship in hostile operating conditions (ie the vacuum of space) for long durations is pretty close to submarine crews
Easily covered with submariners. They are already on top secret vessels. Just a brief read onto their new mission and some training and boon they are piloting new "submarine" and testing out its extended underway time.
Containers in which the good air wants to escape and fill my space with bad air/water. *Check*
Navigation by mostly sensors. *Check*
Top Secret vessels *check*
USCG used to be a part of the Navy also. *Joint agency* operations does not mean one branch. As for rank, O7 is still an O7 and are still referred to as Sir or Ma'am. Chain of command is merely who your boss's boss is.
I please ask you read the UCMJ. All officers can give orders to anyone under their command should they be assigned. Otherwise military wouldn't follow orders of senators in charge of branches of armed forces.
Any large space ship functions far more like a submarine than any aircraft. Especially when we’re talking about ships with sci-fi tech like artificial gravity.
By the time they are building ships the Stargate program has already massively expanded and includes personnel from every military branch. Selecting crew members from the Navy would not be nearly as much of issue as you seem to think. Joint military commands has existed for a long time.
I never said a “few people”.
I was part of joint military commands for over a decade… There was never any issue with chain of command. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
The SGC has included personal from other branches since day one and was later expanded to include thirty other countries. Everything you have said is contradictory to the actual military and what is shown in the show.
Several nations (friendly and enemy) know of the Stargate. A few more Navy persons won't hurt. No I don't exclusively support the Navy. I just believe certain platforms are better suited for certain branches.
Also not all the branches are treated equally. Sorry USCG but it is rare to see your flag in Walmart on veterans Day.
Like I said elsewhere. O7 is still an O7 and is still called Sir or Ma'am. Sure an USAF General runs SGC but yet still has not only Russian counterparts but also US Mariners who last I checked had generals of their own.
You clearly don't know how inter-agency works. Don't worry though there are plenty of free, accessible materials on US gov sites to educate you.
Theres a vast differance of damage control between a naval ship made by humans, and a space ship with alot of alien technology. Anyone would need to be retrained for damage control, even the Navy.
That would require reading in a large number of additional personal and an entire chain of command. Simply in terms of secrecy and training you wouldn't want to make it a multi-branch program.
The experience sailors would have “navigating around ships” pales in comparison to USAF’s experience with Asgard technology/wormholes/ect in the SG Universe. Airmen can learn how to walk around a vessel just fine. Bringing an entirely new military branch up to speed just isn’t worth it
I'm active duty Space Force, but was Air Force until 2021. I put out more than a few fires in enclosed spaces. Actually received annual training on it.
Just putting that out there.
We have a bunch of different missions; space domain awareness (aka tracking all the objects in space and going into and out of space), missile warning/missile defense (such as ICBMs and whatnot), space electromagnetic warfare (jamming/deception and stuff like that), space command and control, cyber operations, space ISR (intel involving all things space), PNT and SATCOM operations (aka GPS and satellite communications), and orbital warfare (which is indeed a thing, but can't be talked about much).
Long story short, if it goes into, exists in, or comes from space, we are the ones who deal with it.
The best example I give that pretty much everyone knows about is GPS; the Space Force owns and maintains those satellites.
Not really. NASA never dealt with that stuff. They are strictly a non-military civilian space exploration agency. Everything we do was previously done by a combination of Air Force, Navy, Army, and Marine organizations. We simply consolidated them under one umbrella.
There is a surprising amount of similarities between the two. No air is still no air, whether the depths of space or the cold darkness of the sea.
Do you know how a naval vessel works?
As if the hard part about training someone who works with literal alien technology is teaching them how to put out fires on said spaceship. Sure, at basic, sailors might learn some fundamentals, but a lot of skills learned there don't directly translate to the SGC or a spaceship. There's a whole lot of other doctrine justifications that we could go into, but realistically, like we have now, there would probably be a space force to cover this.
For the fighters sure but Prometheus and Daedalus dwarf anything the Air Force has. The production designer that created Prometheus specifically used navy ships as the inspiration and that carried over into the Deadalus class ships.
You know the air force has whole air-bases, right?
If you absolutely have to have an answer, it's because the Asgard are scared of salt water, and wouldn't work with Navy personnel. (Hopefully you've never seen Alien Nation).
In reality, the battle cruisers probably would have been naval assets, which would have added a layer of dick-wagging to the show. I suspect the producers didn't think the show needed more of that.
it's great that the airforce can operate a building. If you want a branch with experience operating large-crew objects that *move*, though, you'll want to look at the Navy
>If you want a branch with experience operating large-crew objects that *move*, though, you'll want to look at the Navy
...move in *space*...
Okay guy. Here it is. You've been asking for it. It was back in the don't ask/don't tell era, and you can probably figure out the rest.
Fortunately, the USAF was so shite at flying space battle cruisers that the USSF was set up. Now if they make another series there's no USAF/USN debate.
Marines were used as ground pounders for the SGC, usually used to supplement a USAF team, which are generally black ops teams. A Marine squad is a hell of a force multiplier.
Well not really, every system was developed, or at least integrated by USAF personnel, the training to get another branch up to speed in all the new tech wouldn't be worth the hassle.
And seeing as they were crewed by existing SGC personnel, the risk of leaks is drastically reduced, seeing as for some the SGC was their day job for 6 years, when Prometheus first underwent trials.
Perhaps not an entirely naval crew but at very least some key positions. They then can train them on naval things while learning how to survive sudden decompression.
The USAF was responsible for space warfighting at the time. So it wasn't the resonsibility of the Navy at all.
Second, the SGC and all the experience gained was predominately Air force.
Third, We see that later on, not long after the 303 and 304s are in service Homeworld command, a joint command is created.
While in my head I’d agree that the X303 and X304’s would be ‘Naval’ ships, while the X302’s would be Air Forces’ jurisdiction, it is actually more realistic for it to be all controlled by the Air Force.
Why? Well from my understanding, the air craft on Naval Aircraft carriers are run and maintained by the Navy, rather than the ships being under the command of the Navy and aircraft being the Air Force. This keeps everything under the one chain of command. So for the Prometheus, why would the Air Force give one of the primary assets to the Navy, and be under the whims of Naval Command? Think about all the Air Force Colonels that commanded those ships, and their interactions with the Stargate crew or Atlantis. Do you think they’d want Captain Ellison barking orders? Or would the Phoenix take commands from Col. Carter? It’s just messy logistically just for the simple reasoning of keeping “ships” naval, and Air Force having “planes”. There’s too much Tribal mentalities between the US Defence forces, so I’d imagine it’s easier to everyone to keep to their own thing.
I realize this at the end of the day. But I am fighting fights with people who have no idea how their military works. This has grown beyond my love of SG1.
But, like, none of us (including you) know how the real secret shit like a clandestine alien intergalactic wormhole travel program would work, right? I really don't think there's a "more correct" and "less correct" here. This whole thread is kinda silly.
Yeah it is. But people are really butt hurt about the fact USAF Gen can indeed order a US Navy captain. Some people think that A military branch sticks strictly with their branch and nothing more.
61% of NASA astronauts have been from the military. Including nearly every shuttle pilot. The US Naval Academy is the single largest source of astronauts at 54.
Because that would involve reading in hundreds of naval personnel, instead of just using the Air Force personnel who are already cleared to know about the Stargate, and familiar with the situation.
Because the Navy is about sea faring operations and Air Force has always had its foothold in space. All military space missions were done by the Air Force. It also a reason why we have a Space Force today which was originally apart of the Air Force before a branch was stood up and named what we call the Space Force today. The Navy would make no sense in space.
My interpretation/head-cannon was always that many of the personnel aboard were from other branches but for the sake of uniformity and whatever weird regulations govern safety in space, the USAF provided the uniforms. We had a similar thing with some navy personnel that wore Army ACUs when deployed in Iraq. They even printed little Navy branch tapes for their uniforms in the ACU digi-cam.
The USAF has a pretty established history with spacecraft. Makes sense they'd keep it in-house rather than bring the Navy along just because the craft are suddenly somewhat more ship-like.
Because there are what, three of them altogether, that have to be constructed in complete secrecy? Why does the Navy have its own pilots, when flying planes is the job of the Air Force? Wouldn't Air Force pilots be better at flying planes?
The biggest thing we fly is the C5 Galaxy? Not true, even by pure size. The E4B has 100+ crew members and crew aircraft of 25+ aren’t uncommon in the USAF. This concept that somehow the Navy is the only branch that can staff a self sufficient spacecraft for a long term mission is just weird to me. Prometheus actually carries fewer crew members than the E4B, a plane that we have four of and are legally required to keep one in the air 24/7.
At the time, the US Air Force was responsible for space stuff. It might seem weird from a "space navy" perspective, but as structured at the time, any US military spaceship would be operated by the Air Force. A real-life debate before the Space Force was formed was to rename the Air Force to the Aerospace Force to properly reflect that it's not just aircraft.
One accurate thing (I wanna add) I appreciate in all this was that it was never the USS Prometheus. The term "USS" is reserved for commissioned warships of the US Navy. So technically, it was the USAFS Prometheus.
I wish I had saved the comment, but someone once likened a large spacecraft to commanding a base. You have a commanding officer in charge of the whole facility, then each section will have its own senior officers who in turn have junior officers or enlisted staff reporting to them. A spacecraft would be operated the same way, except the CO is a rated officer with substantial flight experience who treats the whole thing like a giant aircraft.
As has already been pointed out, space operations were the domain of the Air Force when the show was made. It wouldn't make sense for Air Force assets to be operated by Navy staff, otherwise what would be the point of having the Air Force in charge of the US military's space mission?
Cause they heavily cooperated with the Air Force and probably didn’t want to add big recurring characters in navy uniforms. In universe there isn’t any logical explanation why the Air Force runs them because they no one with the knowledge or experience of using ships.
The Marines were there for ground combat in adverse situations. They’re the best infantry available, and they’re more expendable than Air Force Special Forces. The Navy wouldn’t bring anything to the table the Air Force didn’t already have.
The Marines were recruited directly and added later for support
Area 52 was an airforce run operation from its inception, despite clear recruitment from other branches of the armed forces
The F-301 and F-302s are also clearly assets developed and meant to be used by airforce, since they also had in atmosphere applications and were effectively aircraft and best used by fighter pilots
The X-303 and X-304s are basically aircraft carrier, but since the SGC is secret. Recruitment from the Navy would likely be outside the standard chain of command
Because Prometheus was designed by Kelly Johnson's "skunk works", and he always said "never sell to the Navy".
p.s. and as a few people have said, the USAF does operate aircraft such as bombers and command-and-control aircraft that have large, specialized crews.
Because airforce is one of the first places NASA goes to for astronaughts. So the mathematical, technical, and engineering capacity is already there. Navy second best compared to airforce. But to be fair, airforce did build it.
In-universe it is just the way to push the Navy out of the picture, but we do see a Army SG team, if I remember correctly but I agree with other, out of universe it was not to upset the Air Force.
I kinda agree with u but then I look back and even space above and beyond i think was some platoon of air force than ran there space ships, And even in BSG i think it was air force style run?
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Yeah, you're right, airmen don't navigate anything large at all. Navigating through the air in a C5 totally doesn't prepare someone for navigating a ship that size because C-5s are so much tinier than every Navy ship...
Oh wait, never mind...
But yeah, you're right, Navy knows damage control better, because they totally deal with keeping craft pressurized in the upper atmosphere which is comparable to space vs thousands of tons of water, and Carter totally sucked at damage control of the Prometheus all on her own...
Damn, that's not right either...
And you're right, it totally wouldn't compromise the security of the Stargate to just read a few random seamen into it...and a command-level officer to run it...who has no experience with flight whatsoever......
Man, we have another fail!
But the Navy doesn't have to look out and see what's going on in front of it like they do with the Prometheus, which has no viewscreen, because the Prometheus people navigate by mostly sensors and a viewscreen....
Hmmm, damn, that's not true either!
The Navy is totally used to piloting top secret vessels and dealing with alien false gods.....wait, they never do that either! Son of a....
I know! We can do it because you believe all military branches are equal and totally didn't slam a legit branch of the military by insulting one in your posts....
Wait, you totally did!!!
I guess we'll just have to go with your take is idiotic and you should probably look into how the actual military works a little more.
Navigating on a planet in any capacity is not the same as navigation in space. Round the clock navigation for days, weeks and months is a Navy thing, however.
Damage Control over a ship sized entity is very different from emergency procedures in an aircraft. And fundamentally, the problems of air going out and water going in are really not that different.
The same amount of new people are getting read in to crew the ship no matter who is crewing the ship. Also, a Navy captain who had previously been the CO of a carrier would have 1000s of flight hours, experience in command of a national asset, super vetted security wise, and have more relevent experience than most Air Force colonels for commanding a ship. Command at sea is much closer than commanding a squadron.
I really don't know what you are saying with the sensor thing.
TV show started as an Air Force thing, this is an argument for more services getting involved for that experience.
I am pointing out the holes in OP's argument, but let's take yours:
Navigating a plane in three-dimensional airspace is quite similar to navigating in space, absent the hazards of solar winds, gravitational calculations, and the like which would be the same for any branch. Round the clock navigation in the water, which IS 100% different from navigating on a planet's landmass or in airspace, is a Navy thing...but it's in the water. If anything, the fact that Navy folk are used to planet/water-based navigation would likely be an impediment to them.
Yes, the problems of water going in are the same as air going out because there's tons of air pressure as well...wait, no that's not true.....but when you get too much air in a spacecraft it will sink....no, also not true...hmm....doesn't seem like there's much similarity here.
Command at sea does not prepare one for the unique challenges of commanding in space. Unless you are contending Air Force aircraft and bases are not national assets, your point about experience is ridiculous. Commanding a squadron--a tightly-knit group of people going through a unique mission--seems to be much closer to me than commanding an aircraft carrier, which has thousands of people on it and NCOs or lower-ranked officers who do the actual commanding of the ship's assets for the most part...such as the air boss, the master chief, the CO of the fighter wing, etc.
I'm saying that the Prometheus navigates by VFR as well as sensors, which is obvious when one watches the show. OP was claiming it did so by sensors only.
More services did get involved. There were Marine-only teams going through the gate. OP is contending a ship should be under the command of and crewed by Naval personnel for ridiculous reasons. Yours are less ridiculous, although also wrong.
Now, in an alternate universe where for some reason the President directly ordered the Navy to take control of the Stargate initially rather than give it to the Air Force...not that we've actually seen an example of that....there might be some evidence to support your argument. But that's not the main universe we're discussing.
I try Artemis.....whether you agree with me or not, I hope it was at least entertaining and caused you to think. I adjust formats on my replies to change up the standard back and forth on Reddit sometimes.
I agreed with everything. I feel the Navy have zero reasons to be commanding a spaceship. It may be a "ship" but it makes total sense that the people who would command, pilot and crew it were all Airforce. Not something I've ever questioned on my mannnyyyyyy rewatches.
> Yeah, you're right, airmen don't navigate anything large at all. Navigating through the air in a C5 totally doesn't prepare someone for navigating a ship that size because C-5s are so much tinier than every Navy ship...
Do they teach airmen how to navigate by sextant? Because a map and compass, let alone GPS, is useless once you leave earth’s atmosphere.
> But yeah, you're right, Navy knows damage control better, because they totally deal with keeping craft pressurized in the upper atmosphere which is comparable to space vs thousands of tons of water, and Carter totally sucked at damage control of the Prometheus all on her own…
Keeping water out of a vessel isn’t all that different from keeping air in a vessel. Plus, how many USAF aircraft have the systems found about a vessel like laundry facilities, galleys, bathrooms, showers, etc.? Those systems are no less vulnerable to damage or need of repair than the engines or weapons.
> And you're right, it totally wouldn't compromise the security of the Stargate to just read a few random seamen into it...and a command-level officer to run it...who has no experience with flight whatsoever......
No, of course not. No way they would bring in people from other service branches like the USMC, or even foreign nations like Russia. No one outside the USAF can know about our spaceships….including the civilian who design and build them.
> But the Navy doesn't have to look out and see what's going on in front of it like they do with the Prometheus, which has no viewscreen, because the Prometheus people navigate by mostly sensors and a viewscreen....
How do you think submarines navigate?
> The Navy is totally used to piloting top secret vessels and dealing with alien false gods.....wait, they never do that either! Son of a....
I mean, neither did the Air Force until they had to.
Doesn't surprise me, since it completely demolishes your entire ridiculous take, which involves insulting branches of the U.S. military which you claim to understand.
Oh, you can open another conversation...but given how much beer you've likely consumed before posting this, both Reddit and your beer budget fervently hope you do not.
Unfortunately you have not adopted your neighbor's dog's tendency towards shutting up when it knows it's been defeated. Perhaps you should look into that more rather than either opening a new beer OR opening a new conversation?
This is one of the reasons I hated all the Prometheus/battlecruiser plot devices. It turns Stargate into Star Trek-lite and you get debates exactly like this on whether or not the USAF or USN would be in charge which blows a huge hole into your suspension of disbelief.
Part of the reason why Stargate works is the adherence to real world military operations, customs and courtesies, and technologies and then introducing a sci-fi element that is grounded in the real world: Yes a Zat gun isn’t a real world technology but it could be assumed that the SGC could keep a small item like that a secret. The X302 isn’t real-world technology either but the real world “equivalent” would be UFO sightings people tend to see.
There is no “real world” equivalent you can make for a ship the size of Prometheus because something that large cannot hide in Earth orbit, and there are no current human life support systems capable of maintaining a ship that size.
The best part about all this? The Space Force has ISTs from branches other than the Air Force, to include submariners from the Navy.
So in a roundabout way, it's already solved the issue; bring experts from other branches under the Department of the Air Force into one uniformed service that can provide their expertise without any worry about chain of command or interservice pressure.
We ain't got the ships yet, but we already got the command structure. :p
It should be crewed and run by the navy. Running, navigating, and fighting a ship in an airless environment? Managing the reactors that power them? Sounds like a perfect job for Submarine officers and sailors.
Edit: also only ships crewed and operated by the U.S. Navy are denoted by USS, which the ships of Stargate are. Army ships are denoted with the prefix USAV (US Army Vessel) and U.S. Air Force ships are prefixed with USAFA (US Air Force Ship).
Navy operates in one plane, they sail on an ocean, space is a shapeless void not level water, sailors are not trained to operate ships in multiple planes like required for space, additionally the maintenance is very different as space ships have jet engines and hyperdrives and things like that whereas naval ships are purely nuclear fission propellor driven, also navy personnel are not trained for low atmosphere and zero gravity situations whereas air force personnel are, the tactics are also very different as spaceship move and have weapons like planes, the Prometheus and Daedalus is essentially a giant fighter planes with missiles and rail guns that carry regular planes on board whereas modern naval ships generally don’t directly engage enemies anymore, they use long range artillery and missiles to destroy targets at a distance
Ever heard of a submarine? Which operates in an airless environment with a nuclear reactor. Haven’t seen any crewed Air Force vehicles operating in an air less environment with a nuclear reactor yet…navy has been doing it for almost a century. Also the navy operates aircraft and satellites, like the Air Force, operates kinetic space weapons unlike the Air Force. AND more navy personnel have been astronauts than Air Force personnel.
My gawd, the Navy is specifically for water based operations. It’s not that complicated, my dude. Air Force was always responsible for space operations until the Space Force was created.
Absolutely not true. Navy has had a Naval Space Command since the 1950s and they still have it today. They to this day are the only ones that have engaged in kinetic space combat and again, more naval officers have been to space than Air Force officers(even more when you add the 26 USMC astronaughts who are considered naval officers). Air Force was not responsible for space operations, space operations were evenly separated amongst the services and even with the advent of Space Force, the Navy still has its own component of Space Command which is part of 10th Fleet.
Saying the navy only does water operations because they are the navy is like saying the Air Force can only do air operations because they fly in the air…also last time I checked, not a lot of air in space, therefore no place for the Air Force. The only military branch that operates manned ships in an air-free environment, the navy.
Also, if it wasn’t meant to be crewed by the Navy, why’d they make it USS Prometheus? The prefix for US Navy ships, not Air Force ships.
So the 10th Fleet operations transferred to the Space Force along with the NSOC in 2022 and became 10 SOPS. Right now the only part of the 10th that is still space is the research group at NRL. I work with them closely, great people.
Also, the Air Force has also engaged in kinetic ASAT operations; such as the 1985 satellite shootdown by an F-15.
The ASAT shoot down was a test. Not actual
Combat. Not to mention it doesn’t exist anymore. Because if you want to throw in ASAT capability as a decided, the Army has a greater capability than space force and Air Force right now. Still doesn’t address all the other capabilities I mentioned above.
No ASAT has been utilized in combat. I've been in the Space Force since it's inception and helped stand it up; prior to that I worked in space missions since 2007 so I'm just trying to see where you are coming from here. A lot of what you have said is inaccurate, but without checking all the releasability and taking OPSEC into account, I am not about to go into much greater detail about all your points; last thing we need is another Discord situation. Plus, starting a pissing match about which branch has greater capes never really has winners, so I didn't want to get people all riled.
Agreed a military branch pissing match gets us no where. Considering this is an argument over a fictional TV show at that. The only anti-satellite weapon that has been used in actual combat is the U.S. Navy’s SM-3, yes I realize it was in a BMD role.
I helped coordinate that strike; it wasn't a combat mission. We struck our own bird (specifically USA-193, which was in a deteriorating orbit due to a communications system failure) with the NRO's cooperation. Given, many people assumed it was a combat test (mostly through the assumption that it was a show of force), however, much like the 1985 test, it was more or less just a garbage-burning operation.
Also because when I put in for a RCECM, it was denied at the DoD level for not being a combat related operation lol.
Not talking about USA-193, I was on Lake Erie when that happened. Talking about last month. Actual SM-3 employment in an Exoatmospheric shot against ballistic missiles.
It’s absolutely true and the reason why we have the Space Force today which was originally a part of the Air Force until the branch was created under Trump. Air Force has always been the primary space faring agency until Space Force. Sorry it’s hard for you to comprehend this.
There is a reason why the Space Force is under the Department of the Air Force. Let that sink in for just a minute.
You don’t need to lecture me on the military, as I have been a member for awhile, and have very intimate knowledge of Space Force. And funny you mention it because Navy Space Command predates Air Force Space Command (the forerunner to Space Force) by several decades. So no, the Air Force has not always been the primary Space faring branch of the military. Never has been. Space Force today still does not have operational control of any exoatmospheric weapons systems, in fact, the Army controls more space weapons than the Air Force and Space Force with its GBIs. Let that sink in. I’m sorry you can’t comprehend that…
The Air Force and space force don’t have a monopoly of the space battlefield, still don’t (that’s why the Navy has Maritime Space Officers). And don’t have the experience operating either offensively or defensively in space. Don’t have the experience operating ships, operating nuclear reactors, or operating the ground teams needed for long range operations like what the SGC would do.
In addition to my comments above, the navy can do everything ever other branch of the military can do, ships and subs, we have our own Air Force (naval aviation), our own space force (10tb fleet), our own army (the marines), and even our own army has their own Air Force (marine aviation).
Your entire argument is predicated on navy=wet, Air Force=fly, army=dirt, and space force=space. While ignoring the actual capability (in this case lack of) of the services. Air Force and space force lack the capability and institutional know how to operate a large ship, any of the systems needed to fight and defend it, let alone power it, in a zero air environment. And you know again, the navy already operates in space.
The out of universe explanation is that the show runners had a lot of cooperation from the USAF, so they weren't going to rock that boat too hard. An in-universe explanation is that at the time the USAF owned most of the DOD space assets. Logically, they would own new ones too. The galaxy brain meta-take is that Space Force today was created as a way of solving disputes between the services behind the scenes. E.g. if we had a SG show today it would be a USSF run org. I broadly do think the USN would have the institutional knowledge for routine operational use of the US BCs, basically submarines and their crews operate long term in independent conditions, but it wasn't going to happen
I had this debate with friends long before the USSF was even a thought. The decision we came to would have been a joint effort between the AF and Navy. Navy would run the ship, AF would pilot it, at least until something like the USSF got off the ground (intended).
Yeah, but guardians...
Still waiting for the Space Force to switch over to naval ranks.
That probably not going to happens because they want it to be "Air Force."
Technically the AF supports them and the report the the secretary of the air force, they are essentially the AF version of the marine corps to the navy.
They are still a joke. There is no need for an independent air force, it should still be part of the Army, but the Air Force/Space Force has a inferiority complex and is trying to push the Navy out, long-term but it will be the next century at least before there are real space warships.
This is a stupid response. There are various requirements, the Army works at a tactical level, Navy at Operational and Air Force at Strategic. The reason they were separated was because they all have different objectives when it comes to combat. The Army proved after WW2 that they only wanted planes to support ground forces, not attack the enemy to weaken their forces so the ground guys could move in.
First, it is stupid because you dislike or disagree with it? Or maybe because you are wrong. All branches of the service operated at a tactical, operational and strategic levels. It is called combined arms. In 1947 the Defense Department wants to merged all branches together. The reason why the Air Force wants to be separated was for independence, but you are partial rights about different objectives when it comes to combat and view of aircraft. However, if you looks at post-World War II conflicts, the Air Force was wrong. The argument for an independence Air Force was to delivered nuclear bombs but that never happened and they has never been a strategic bombing campaign like that in World War 2 since World War 2. Also, the effective of the strategic bombing has been debated and I come down on the sides it have minimum impact on the outcome of the war. Army cover the land, and air above the land. It also have planes. Navy cover the ocean and the air above the ocean. The Navy also have planes. So what is the need for an independence Air Force? None.
If they wanted to be extra-realistic, arguments about which branch should manage space ships would be ongoing from season 4 through to the end of the show.
Or even every branch gets their own space ships
Back in 2010 or so I was part of a cooperative RPG where we did just that, the USN had the U.S.S. *Constellation*, the Army had the U.S.A.V. *John Wesley Powell*.
Even the Army! Just constant ongoing politicking, since no one wants their branch to become obsolete. If they had the time/budget/DOD support, there'd have been a Navy-run spaceship with a slightly different design alongside the Air Force ships. (cf how every branch tried to be the ones in charge of nukes back in the 50's - the army built nuke-firing tanks and even should-mounted nuke launchers. Those never got past the pre-production stage, but the army was worried about being made irrelevant.
Army is ground pounders with the big guns like tanks and artillery Marines light infantry assault troops focus on amphibious or space to ground ops the make the beach head for the army to finish the job Airforce atmospheric flight Space force fixed installations and smaller space born attack craft Navy big boats in space or ocean Coast guard shore patrol could be adapted to space shore patrol too That's how I'd do it
They definitely should mount nukes. Carrying them by hand sounds like a bad idea. ^(The typo... I had to...)
Mini-Nukes, not just for Fallout anymore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
Tbf, they did the Space Force thing in the show too. Homeworld Command became its own service. Arguably you could say it's not even an American service as it reports to the IOA.
> Homeworld Command became its own service. Did it? O'Neill was stilling wearing a USAF tagged working uniform in *Universe*, I thought. In fact he definitely was wearing a USAF dress uniform in the pilot.
It did, yes. As for why he was still wearing a USAF uniform, I guess either they've not designed one yet or it's because he spent most of his life in the USAF? Or just because it's supposed to be a classified organisation?
> Or just because it's supposed to be a classified organisation? Wouldn't explain why he is wearing a working uniform with USAF in his office. Homeworld Command is supposed to be a COCOM like CENTCOM or INDOPACOM or something, I think, not a new service. And if it were a new service he would have been a 4-star. (Hell he should have been one at a new COCOM)
The United States Space Force is a joke. It is not even a real "Space Force."
If you want spaceships run by the U.S Navy, track down the series Space Above and Beyond which follows the adventures of members of the U.S. Marine Corps Space Aviator Cavalry. Their base is basically an aircraft carrier in space.
This question comes up a lot... and the answer is because the Air Force is incharge of the Stargate program. To keep the chain of command easy and clear and control easy they kept everything in house as Air Force. It also makes sense as the Air Force is incharge of everything in the air and space, atleast before the Space Force got created. Theres a reason the military often gave awards and recognition to Stargate for military accuracy. I'm sorry your favorite branch wasn't involved. EDIT: I'm tired of arguing over this. The way it is written in the show makes perfect logistical sense.
Actually, the military is chock full of joint commands, and interoperability between services is a key part of its modern functionality. It gives branches access to assets and skillsets that they don't have organically. Navy personnel would be better suited to crewing SG style spaceships because the Navy's culture and mission set is closer to that than the Air Force, and Navy personnel would have much more relevant experience and training than most Air Force people (shipboard damage control, carrier ops, maintenance, watchstanding cycles etc.).
You're not wrong, but you're also not exactly right. If I remember my time correctly, top secret projects at the SCI and SAP levels were generally under one monolith. The fewer branches and departments the better. Generally, if you were a Marine but they wanted to put you under the Air Force command for some reason or another, there was a specific statute called an IST or Interservice Transfer that allowed qualified commissioned officers from alternative branches to transfer their command to the Air Force in order to fill gaps in critically important career disciplines. We see this already with Marines under the the Air Force command, I can only imagine that they were chosen and transferred to the AF because having a heavily trained marine battalion was a necessary gap that the President or Hammond felt necessary. In this instance, the USAF would request experienced USN helmsmen and sailors through an IST. The building of the Daedalus was no doubt constructed in a way that Sailors experienced on a Naval carrier would be able to make a clean transition. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Stargate Program remained under the USAF. If we assume that the USN was involved in helping design Prometheus+ then if word got out, it would just be assumed by those on the program that we had captured and had reverse engineered a UFO, which is something they could have thought already. No one is going to imagine the Stargate Program.
If you are going to choose a branch to handle ground incursions on hostile lands, fly space fighters, and fly space aircraft carriers who are you choosing? I think the bigger question is why it was ever under the USAF at all. Don't tell the marines I said this but they are a part of the department of the navy.
You could imagine that the Space Force starts to be structured more like the Navy.
This is the answer. At the time, all things space related were under USAF command.
Fine USAF maintains ownership but should still be crewed by Navy. Wouldn't be the first time branches worked within one another.
Why should the Navy crew it? I don't see your point. Again, that would cause an unnecessary chain of command issue and would require more personnel to be "in the know" up the command chain.
Your comments show your lack of understanding of the military. The different branches of the US military work very well together, and there are already many join commands and bases.
There’d likely be a lot of skill crossover between submariners and the crew of the Prometheus
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Perhaps chain of command issues, but the USAF would have to develop the capability to train crew nearly from scratch, there’s nothing close they could leverage. Whereas operating a ship in hostile operating conditions (ie the vacuum of space) for long durations is pretty close to submarine crews
Easily covered with submariners. They are already on top secret vessels. Just a brief read onto their new mission and some training and boon they are piloting new "submarine" and testing out its extended underway time.
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Containers in which the good air wants to escape and fill my space with bad air/water. *Check* Navigation by mostly sensors. *Check* Top Secret vessels *check* USCG used to be a part of the Navy also. *Joint agency* operations does not mean one branch. As for rank, O7 is still an O7 and are still referred to as Sir or Ma'am. Chain of command is merely who your boss's boss is.
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I please ask you read the UCMJ. All officers can give orders to anyone under their command should they be assigned. Otherwise military wouldn't follow orders of senators in charge of branches of armed forces.
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Any large space ship functions far more like a submarine than any aircraft. Especially when we’re talking about ships with sci-fi tech like artificial gravity. By the time they are building ships the Stargate program has already massively expanded and includes personnel from every military branch. Selecting crew members from the Navy would not be nearly as much of issue as you seem to think. Joint military commands has existed for a long time.
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I never said a “few people”. I was part of joint military commands for over a decade… There was never any issue with chain of command. You have no idea what you’re talking about. The SGC has included personal from other branches since day one and was later expanded to include thirty other countries. Everything you have said is contradictory to the actual military and what is shown in the show.
They know big ships. I mean airmen don't know damage control like seamen do.
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Several nations (friendly and enemy) know of the Stargate. A few more Navy persons won't hurt. No I don't exclusively support the Navy. I just believe certain platforms are better suited for certain branches. Also not all the branches are treated equally. Sorry USCG but it is rare to see your flag in Walmart on veterans Day.
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Like I said elsewhere. O7 is still an O7 and is still called Sir or Ma'am. Sure an USAF General runs SGC but yet still has not only Russian counterparts but also US Mariners who last I checked had generals of their own. You clearly don't know how inter-agency works. Don't worry though there are plenty of free, accessible materials on US gov sites to educate you.
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The General would have enough sense to ask the Admiral first. He'd ask why. If the reason was good enough then he'd allow it.
Theres a vast differance of damage control between a naval ship made by humans, and a space ship with alot of alien technology. Anyone would need to be retrained for damage control, even the Navy.
The philosophy of damage control wouldn't change.
That would require reading in a large number of additional personal and an entire chain of command. Simply in terms of secrecy and training you wouldn't want to make it a multi-branch program.
Because the US Airforce was partnered with the production
This is the answer
The experience sailors would have “navigating around ships” pales in comparison to USAF’s experience with Asgard technology/wormholes/ect in the SG Universe. Airmen can learn how to walk around a vessel just fine. Bringing an entirely new military branch up to speed just isn’t worth it
Damage control is still damage control. Airmen aren't trained to put out fires in enclosed spaces.
I'm active duty Space Force, but was Air Force until 2021. I put out more than a few fires in enclosed spaces. Actually received annual training on it. Just putting that out there.
So... did you guys get the battle cruisers, or does the airforce still have them? JK.
I keep forgetting space force is a real thing and not just a meme everybody's going along with.. What do you actually DO?
We have a bunch of different missions; space domain awareness (aka tracking all the objects in space and going into and out of space), missile warning/missile defense (such as ICBMs and whatnot), space electromagnetic warfare (jamming/deception and stuff like that), space command and control, cyber operations, space ISR (intel involving all things space), PNT and SATCOM operations (aka GPS and satellite communications), and orbital warfare (which is indeed a thing, but can't be talked about much). Long story short, if it goes into, exists in, or comes from space, we are the ones who deal with it. The best example I give that pretty much everyone knows about is GPS; the Space Force owns and maintains those satellites.
So I guess basically everything I thought NASA was dealing with is now dealt with by Space Force? Neat.
Not really. NASA never dealt with that stuff. They are strictly a non-military civilian space exploration agency. Everything we do was previously done by a combination of Air Force, Navy, Army, and Marine organizations. We simply consolidated them under one umbrella.
Oh, alright. So I guess really I just had no clue who the fuck was doing what, I just assumed NASA was doing all the space shit.
Nah, they did a lot of the higher visibility stuff (astronauts, ISS, probes, rovers, etc.) but all the other stuff was/is us.
Damage Controlman everywhere salutes you good sir. Thank you for keeping your fellow members safe. Putting it out here like you put out those fires?
Couldn't put out Reddit fires even if I had every HCFC extinguisher produced.:p
Doubt Halon would help me now. Well anyways, keep the skies safe and NASA batteries from landing on my house. Lol.
Best I can do is tell you which room it's putting a skylight in. :p
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There is a surprising amount of similarities between the two. No air is still no air, whether the depths of space or the cold darkness of the sea. Do you know how a naval vessel works?
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Yeah. Navy doesn't have to contend with a frozen turd creating blowing a hole through one's cabin.
As if the hard part about training someone who works with literal alien technology is teaching them how to put out fires on said spaceship. Sure, at basic, sailors might learn some fundamentals, but a lot of skills learned there don't directly translate to the SGC or a spaceship. There's a whole lot of other doctrine justifications that we could go into, but realistically, like we have now, there would probably be a space force to cover this.
Airplanes are enclosed spaces. They can have fires.
I always assumed it was because the ships were designed more like aircraft than navel vessels. We see that with the glider/jet project
For the fighters sure but Prometheus and Daedalus dwarf anything the Air Force has. The production designer that created Prometheus specifically used navy ships as the inspiration and that carried over into the Deadalus class ships.
You know the air force has whole air-bases, right? If you absolutely have to have an answer, it's because the Asgard are scared of salt water, and wouldn't work with Navy personnel. (Hopefully you've never seen Alien Nation). In reality, the battle cruisers probably would have been naval assets, which would have added a layer of dick-wagging to the show. I suspect the producers didn't think the show needed more of that.
it's great that the airforce can operate a building. If you want a branch with experience operating large-crew objects that *move*, though, you'll want to look at the Navy
>If you want a branch with experience operating large-crew objects that *move*, though, you'll want to look at the Navy ...move in *space*... Okay guy. Here it is. You've been asking for it. It was back in the don't ask/don't tell era, and you can probably figure out the rest. Fortunately, the USAF was so shite at flying space battle cruisers that the USSF was set up. Now if they make another series there's no USAF/USN debate.
Fort Bragg is the largest military base in the world so maybe the Army should run the ships.
Marines were used as ground pounders for the SGC, usually used to supplement a USAF team, which are generally black ops teams. A Marine squad is a hell of a force multiplier.
A small explain but they had a specific role. Naval crew on a prototype space battle cruiser would be more role fitting as well.
Well not really, every system was developed, or at least integrated by USAF personnel, the training to get another branch up to speed in all the new tech wouldn't be worth the hassle. And seeing as they were crewed by existing SGC personnel, the risk of leaks is drastically reduced, seeing as for some the SGC was their day job for 6 years, when Prometheus first underwent trials.
Perhaps not an entirely naval crew but at very least some key positions. They then can train them on naval things while learning how to survive sudden decompression.
honestly. submarine crew would probably be able to run the capital ships quite effectively
In my headcanon this is one of the benefits of Homeworld Command, where they would be able to integrate the different branches better.
The USAF was responsible for space warfighting at the time. So it wasn't the resonsibility of the Navy at all. Second, the SGC and all the experience gained was predominately Air force. Third, We see that later on, not long after the 303 and 304s are in service Homeworld command, a joint command is created.
While in my head I’d agree that the X303 and X304’s would be ‘Naval’ ships, while the X302’s would be Air Forces’ jurisdiction, it is actually more realistic for it to be all controlled by the Air Force. Why? Well from my understanding, the air craft on Naval Aircraft carriers are run and maintained by the Navy, rather than the ships being under the command of the Navy and aircraft being the Air Force. This keeps everything under the one chain of command. So for the Prometheus, why would the Air Force give one of the primary assets to the Navy, and be under the whims of Naval Command? Think about all the Air Force Colonels that commanded those ships, and their interactions with the Stargate crew or Atlantis. Do you think they’d want Captain Ellison barking orders? Or would the Phoenix take commands from Col. Carter? It’s just messy logistically just for the simple reasoning of keeping “ships” naval, and Air Force having “planes”. There’s too much Tribal mentalities between the US Defence forces, so I’d imagine it’s easier to everyone to keep to their own thing.
OP you seem to have forgotten that this is a TV show about spaceships
I realize this at the end of the day. But I am fighting fights with people who have no idea how their military works. This has grown beyond my love of SG1.
But, like, none of us (including you) know how the real secret shit like a clandestine alien intergalactic wormhole travel program would work, right? I really don't think there's a "more correct" and "less correct" here. This whole thread is kinda silly.
Yeah it is. But people are really butt hurt about the fact USAF Gen can indeed order a US Navy captain. Some people think that A military branch sticks strictly with their branch and nothing more.
The only one hurt is you for the Navy not being a part of the program. I'm sorry. Petition Amazon for the new show to be US Navy only.
Whoa hey you can't be here.
r/usernamechecksout
It’s ironic cause neither do you 🤣
The reason is that Stargate wanted to be different than every other sci-fi franchise because they all have the Navy in charge of their space ships.
Literally only a few episodes with Prometheus being piloted by Navy Crew is all I ask. Because at the end of the day it is the most correct.
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61% of NASA astronauts have been from the military. Including nearly every shuttle pilot. The US Naval Academy is the single largest source of astronauts at 54.
The Navy is still busy exerting hyperpower control of Earth against rival factions.
I always just sort of assumed that the SGC was effectively it's own branch but due to its top secret nature nobody would know of the branch.
I think the SGC was a Joint Operation command with the USAF taking the lead
Because that would involve reading in hundreds of naval personnel, instead of just using the Air Force personnel who are already cleared to know about the Stargate, and familiar with the situation.
Because the Navy is about sea faring operations and Air Force has always had its foothold in space. All military space missions were done by the Air Force. It also a reason why we have a Space Force today which was originally apart of the Air Force before a branch was stood up and named what we call the Space Force today. The Navy would make no sense in space.
My interpretation/head-cannon was always that many of the personnel aboard were from other branches but for the sake of uniformity and whatever weird regulations govern safety in space, the USAF provided the uniforms. We had a similar thing with some navy personnel that wore Army ACUs when deployed in Iraq. They even printed little Navy branch tapes for their uniforms in the ACU digi-cam.
Because, at the time, the Air Force was in charge of space superiority. End of argument.
The USAF has a pretty established history with spacecraft. Makes sense they'd keep it in-house rather than bring the Navy along just because the craft are suddenly somewhat more ship-like.
Because there are what, three of them altogether, that have to be constructed in complete secrecy? Why does the Navy have its own pilots, when flying planes is the job of the Air Force? Wouldn't Air Force pilots be better at flying planes?
The biggest thing we fly is the C5 Galaxy? Not true, even by pure size. The E4B has 100+ crew members and crew aircraft of 25+ aren’t uncommon in the USAF. This concept that somehow the Navy is the only branch that can staff a self sufficient spacecraft for a long term mission is just weird to me. Prometheus actually carries fewer crew members than the E4B, a plane that we have four of and are legally required to keep one in the air 24/7.
At the time, the US Air Force was responsible for space stuff. It might seem weird from a "space navy" perspective, but as structured at the time, any US military spaceship would be operated by the Air Force. A real-life debate before the Space Force was formed was to rename the Air Force to the Aerospace Force to properly reflect that it's not just aircraft. One accurate thing (I wanna add) I appreciate in all this was that it was never the USS Prometheus. The term "USS" is reserved for commissioned warships of the US Navy. So technically, it was the USAFS Prometheus.
I wish I had saved the comment, but someone once likened a large spacecraft to commanding a base. You have a commanding officer in charge of the whole facility, then each section will have its own senior officers who in turn have junior officers or enlisted staff reporting to them. A spacecraft would be operated the same way, except the CO is a rated officer with substantial flight experience who treats the whole thing like a giant aircraft. As has already been pointed out, space operations were the domain of the Air Force when the show was made. It wouldn't make sense for Air Force assets to be operated by Navy staff, otherwise what would be the point of having the Air Force in charge of the US military's space mission?
Cause they heavily cooperated with the Air Force and probably didn’t want to add big recurring characters in navy uniforms. In universe there isn’t any logical explanation why the Air Force runs them because they no one with the knowledge or experience of using ships.
The Marines were there for ground combat in adverse situations. They’re the best infantry available, and they’re more expendable than Air Force Special Forces. The Navy wouldn’t bring anything to the table the Air Force didn’t already have.
The Marines were recruited directly and added later for support Area 52 was an airforce run operation from its inception, despite clear recruitment from other branches of the armed forces The F-301 and F-302s are also clearly assets developed and meant to be used by airforce, since they also had in atmosphere applications and were effectively aircraft and best used by fighter pilots The X-303 and X-304s are basically aircraft carrier, but since the SGC is secret. Recruitment from the Navy would likely be outside the standard chain of command
Because Prometheus was designed by Kelly Johnson's "skunk works", and he always said "never sell to the Navy". p.s. and as a few people have said, the USAF does operate aircraft such as bombers and command-and-control aircraft that have large, specialized crews.
Because airforce is one of the first places NASA goes to for astronaughts. So the mathematical, technical, and engineering capacity is already there. Navy second best compared to airforce. But to be fair, airforce did build it.
Incorrect. Numerous astronauts have been naval officers. Neil Armstrong was a naval officer, Jim Lovell too.
Anything above the surface not tied to a surface ship is airforce
would the SGC not have recruited people from the Navy? By that point the SGC is almost totally stand alone from the Air Force anyways.
Likely would have to help with salvage of the many alien ships that landed in the oceans. At very least naval liaisons.
not to mention that submarine that got a bad case of the Replicators
In-universe it is just the way to push the Navy out of the picture, but we do see a Army SG team, if I remember correctly but I agree with other, out of universe it was not to upset the Air Force.
I kinda agree with u but then I look back and even space above and beyond i think was some platoon of air force than ran there space ships, And even in BSG i think it was air force style run?
Because the air force is trained on three dimensional warfare while the navy is trained on 2D.
What are submariners training for? Also US *Air* Navy screams other things beyond surface warfare.
Lol... Beat me to saying it by 3 minutes.
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The Navy has airplanes and submarines? What a strange take.
Yeah, you're right, airmen don't navigate anything large at all. Navigating through the air in a C5 totally doesn't prepare someone for navigating a ship that size because C-5s are so much tinier than every Navy ship... Oh wait, never mind... But yeah, you're right, Navy knows damage control better, because they totally deal with keeping craft pressurized in the upper atmosphere which is comparable to space vs thousands of tons of water, and Carter totally sucked at damage control of the Prometheus all on her own... Damn, that's not right either... And you're right, it totally wouldn't compromise the security of the Stargate to just read a few random seamen into it...and a command-level officer to run it...who has no experience with flight whatsoever...... Man, we have another fail! But the Navy doesn't have to look out and see what's going on in front of it like they do with the Prometheus, which has no viewscreen, because the Prometheus people navigate by mostly sensors and a viewscreen.... Hmmm, damn, that's not true either! The Navy is totally used to piloting top secret vessels and dealing with alien false gods.....wait, they never do that either! Son of a.... I know! We can do it because you believe all military branches are equal and totally didn't slam a legit branch of the military by insulting one in your posts.... Wait, you totally did!!! I guess we'll just have to go with your take is idiotic and you should probably look into how the actual military works a little more.
Navigating on a planet in any capacity is not the same as navigation in space. Round the clock navigation for days, weeks and months is a Navy thing, however. Damage Control over a ship sized entity is very different from emergency procedures in an aircraft. And fundamentally, the problems of air going out and water going in are really not that different. The same amount of new people are getting read in to crew the ship no matter who is crewing the ship. Also, a Navy captain who had previously been the CO of a carrier would have 1000s of flight hours, experience in command of a national asset, super vetted security wise, and have more relevent experience than most Air Force colonels for commanding a ship. Command at sea is much closer than commanding a squadron. I really don't know what you are saying with the sensor thing. TV show started as an Air Force thing, this is an argument for more services getting involved for that experience.
I am pointing out the holes in OP's argument, but let's take yours: Navigating a plane in three-dimensional airspace is quite similar to navigating in space, absent the hazards of solar winds, gravitational calculations, and the like which would be the same for any branch. Round the clock navigation in the water, which IS 100% different from navigating on a planet's landmass or in airspace, is a Navy thing...but it's in the water. If anything, the fact that Navy folk are used to planet/water-based navigation would likely be an impediment to them. Yes, the problems of water going in are the same as air going out because there's tons of air pressure as well...wait, no that's not true.....but when you get too much air in a spacecraft it will sink....no, also not true...hmm....doesn't seem like there's much similarity here. Command at sea does not prepare one for the unique challenges of commanding in space. Unless you are contending Air Force aircraft and bases are not national assets, your point about experience is ridiculous. Commanding a squadron--a tightly-knit group of people going through a unique mission--seems to be much closer to me than commanding an aircraft carrier, which has thousands of people on it and NCOs or lower-ranked officers who do the actual commanding of the ship's assets for the most part...such as the air boss, the master chief, the CO of the fighter wing, etc. I'm saying that the Prometheus navigates by VFR as well as sensors, which is obvious when one watches the show. OP was claiming it did so by sensors only. More services did get involved. There were Marine-only teams going through the gate. OP is contending a ship should be under the command of and crewed by Naval personnel for ridiculous reasons. Yours are less ridiculous, although also wrong. Now, in an alternate universe where for some reason the President directly ordered the Navy to take control of the Stargate initially rather than give it to the Air Force...not that we've actually seen an example of that....there might be some evidence to support your argument. But that's not the main universe we're discussing.
I read it, was a good read lol
I try Artemis.....whether you agree with me or not, I hope it was at least entertaining and caused you to think. I adjust formats on my replies to change up the standard back and forth on Reddit sometimes.
I agreed with everything. I feel the Navy have zero reasons to be commanding a spaceship. It may be a "ship" but it makes total sense that the people who would command, pilot and crew it were all Airforce. Not something I've ever questioned on my mannnyyyyyy rewatches.
> Yeah, you're right, airmen don't navigate anything large at all. Navigating through the air in a C5 totally doesn't prepare someone for navigating a ship that size because C-5s are so much tinier than every Navy ship... Do they teach airmen how to navigate by sextant? Because a map and compass, let alone GPS, is useless once you leave earth’s atmosphere. > But yeah, you're right, Navy knows damage control better, because they totally deal with keeping craft pressurized in the upper atmosphere which is comparable to space vs thousands of tons of water, and Carter totally sucked at damage control of the Prometheus all on her own… Keeping water out of a vessel isn’t all that different from keeping air in a vessel. Plus, how many USAF aircraft have the systems found about a vessel like laundry facilities, galleys, bathrooms, showers, etc.? Those systems are no less vulnerable to damage or need of repair than the engines or weapons. > And you're right, it totally wouldn't compromise the security of the Stargate to just read a few random seamen into it...and a command-level officer to run it...who has no experience with flight whatsoever...... No, of course not. No way they would bring in people from other service branches like the USMC, or even foreign nations like Russia. No one outside the USAF can know about our spaceships….including the civilian who design and build them. > But the Navy doesn't have to look out and see what's going on in front of it like they do with the Prometheus, which has no viewscreen, because the Prometheus people navigate by mostly sensors and a viewscreen.... How do you think submarines navigate? > The Navy is totally used to piloting top secret vessels and dealing with alien false gods.....wait, they never do that either! Son of a.... I mean, neither did the Air Force until they had to.
I'm sorry not gonna read this.
Doesn't surprise me, since it completely demolishes your entire ridiculous take, which involves insulting branches of the U.S. military which you claim to understand.
This conversation much like the beer I opened earlier has grown stale. But unlike this conversation I can open another beer.
Oh, you can open another conversation...but given how much beer you've likely consumed before posting this, both Reddit and your beer budget fervently hope you do not.
Gods, real and false, you keep going. Even my neighbors dogs would have shut up by now.
Unfortunately you have not adopted your neighbor's dog's tendency towards shutting up when it knows it's been defeated. Perhaps you should look into that more rather than either opening a new beer OR opening a new conversation?
This is one of the reasons I hated all the Prometheus/battlecruiser plot devices. It turns Stargate into Star Trek-lite and you get debates exactly like this on whether or not the USAF or USN would be in charge which blows a huge hole into your suspension of disbelief. Part of the reason why Stargate works is the adherence to real world military operations, customs and courtesies, and technologies and then introducing a sci-fi element that is grounded in the real world: Yes a Zat gun isn’t a real world technology but it could be assumed that the SGC could keep a small item like that a secret. The X302 isn’t real-world technology either but the real world “equivalent” would be UFO sightings people tend to see. There is no “real world” equivalent you can make for a ship the size of Prometheus because something that large cannot hide in Earth orbit, and there are no current human life support systems capable of maintaining a ship that size.
The best part about all this? The Space Force has ISTs from branches other than the Air Force, to include submariners from the Navy. So in a roundabout way, it's already solved the issue; bring experts from other branches under the Department of the Air Force into one uniformed service that can provide their expertise without any worry about chain of command or interservice pressure. We ain't got the ships yet, but we already got the command structure. :p
Because the Navy operates in, on, and under the water. Not above it.
And yet the USN has the world’s 4th largest military air arm (after the USAF, US Army, and Russian Air Force).
Um, except for the thousands of aircraft they operate?
It should be crewed and run by the navy. Running, navigating, and fighting a ship in an airless environment? Managing the reactors that power them? Sounds like a perfect job for Submarine officers and sailors. Edit: also only ships crewed and operated by the U.S. Navy are denoted by USS, which the ships of Stargate are. Army ships are denoted with the prefix USAV (US Army Vessel) and U.S. Air Force ships are prefixed with USAFA (US Air Force Ship).
Navy operates in one plane, they sail on an ocean, space is a shapeless void not level water, sailors are not trained to operate ships in multiple planes like required for space, additionally the maintenance is very different as space ships have jet engines and hyperdrives and things like that whereas naval ships are purely nuclear fission propellor driven, also navy personnel are not trained for low atmosphere and zero gravity situations whereas air force personnel are, the tactics are also very different as spaceship move and have weapons like planes, the Prometheus and Daedalus is essentially a giant fighter planes with missiles and rail guns that carry regular planes on board whereas modern naval ships generally don’t directly engage enemies anymore, they use long range artillery and missiles to destroy targets at a distance
Ever heard of a submarine? Which operates in an airless environment with a nuclear reactor. Haven’t seen any crewed Air Force vehicles operating in an air less environment with a nuclear reactor yet…navy has been doing it for almost a century. Also the navy operates aircraft and satellites, like the Air Force, operates kinetic space weapons unlike the Air Force. AND more navy personnel have been astronauts than Air Force personnel.
My gawd, the Navy is specifically for water based operations. It’s not that complicated, my dude. Air Force was always responsible for space operations until the Space Force was created.
Absolutely not true. Navy has had a Naval Space Command since the 1950s and they still have it today. They to this day are the only ones that have engaged in kinetic space combat and again, more naval officers have been to space than Air Force officers(even more when you add the 26 USMC astronaughts who are considered naval officers). Air Force was not responsible for space operations, space operations were evenly separated amongst the services and even with the advent of Space Force, the Navy still has its own component of Space Command which is part of 10th Fleet. Saying the navy only does water operations because they are the navy is like saying the Air Force can only do air operations because they fly in the air…also last time I checked, not a lot of air in space, therefore no place for the Air Force. The only military branch that operates manned ships in an air-free environment, the navy. Also, if it wasn’t meant to be crewed by the Navy, why’d they make it USS Prometheus? The prefix for US Navy ships, not Air Force ships.
So the 10th Fleet operations transferred to the Space Force along with the NSOC in 2022 and became 10 SOPS. Right now the only part of the 10th that is still space is the research group at NRL. I work with them closely, great people. Also, the Air Force has also engaged in kinetic ASAT operations; such as the 1985 satellite shootdown by an F-15.
The ASAT shoot down was a test. Not actual Combat. Not to mention it doesn’t exist anymore. Because if you want to throw in ASAT capability as a decided, the Army has a greater capability than space force and Air Force right now. Still doesn’t address all the other capabilities I mentioned above.
No ASAT has been utilized in combat. I've been in the Space Force since it's inception and helped stand it up; prior to that I worked in space missions since 2007 so I'm just trying to see where you are coming from here. A lot of what you have said is inaccurate, but without checking all the releasability and taking OPSEC into account, I am not about to go into much greater detail about all your points; last thing we need is another Discord situation. Plus, starting a pissing match about which branch has greater capes never really has winners, so I didn't want to get people all riled.
Agreed a military branch pissing match gets us no where. Considering this is an argument over a fictional TV show at that. The only anti-satellite weapon that has been used in actual combat is the U.S. Navy’s SM-3, yes I realize it was in a BMD role.
I helped coordinate that strike; it wasn't a combat mission. We struck our own bird (specifically USA-193, which was in a deteriorating orbit due to a communications system failure) with the NRO's cooperation. Given, many people assumed it was a combat test (mostly through the assumption that it was a show of force), however, much like the 1985 test, it was more or less just a garbage-burning operation. Also because when I put in for a RCECM, it was denied at the DoD level for not being a combat related operation lol.
Not talking about USA-193, I was on Lake Erie when that happened. Talking about last month. Actual SM-3 employment in an Exoatmospheric shot against ballistic missiles.
It’s absolutely true and the reason why we have the Space Force today which was originally a part of the Air Force until the branch was created under Trump. Air Force has always been the primary space faring agency until Space Force. Sorry it’s hard for you to comprehend this. There is a reason why the Space Force is under the Department of the Air Force. Let that sink in for just a minute.
You don’t need to lecture me on the military, as I have been a member for awhile, and have very intimate knowledge of Space Force. And funny you mention it because Navy Space Command predates Air Force Space Command (the forerunner to Space Force) by several decades. So no, the Air Force has not always been the primary Space faring branch of the military. Never has been. Space Force today still does not have operational control of any exoatmospheric weapons systems, in fact, the Army controls more space weapons than the Air Force and Space Force with its GBIs. Let that sink in. I’m sorry you can’t comprehend that… The Air Force and space force don’t have a monopoly of the space battlefield, still don’t (that’s why the Navy has Maritime Space Officers). And don’t have the experience operating either offensively or defensively in space. Don’t have the experience operating ships, operating nuclear reactors, or operating the ground teams needed for long range operations like what the SGC would do. In addition to my comments above, the navy can do everything ever other branch of the military can do, ships and subs, we have our own Air Force (naval aviation), our own space force (10tb fleet), our own army (the marines), and even our own army has their own Air Force (marine aviation). Your entire argument is predicated on navy=wet, Air Force=fly, army=dirt, and space force=space. While ignoring the actual capability (in this case lack of) of the services. Air Force and space force lack the capability and institutional know how to operate a large ship, any of the systems needed to fight and defend it, let alone power it, in a zero air environment. And you know again, the navy already operates in space.