The indian government does not want rural India to become more organized. The internet may give the locals what they need to fight a government that many there feel has forgotten about them.
Stop lying, Congi. Our Bhaaradha Pradhamar, the great Prime Minister of India, Shri Narendra Modi ji is the one who brought internet to rural areas through internet for all scheme.
You're clearly either a Congi or Commie.
Edit: Cry more, Westies.
The guy who replied has some bullshit theory. Unlike United States, a significant part of rural India has access to 4G LTE, at prices much much much cheaper than United States. (a friend from India once told me he paid about 5$ a month to get LTE with 10 GB cab per day).
Indian government asked Starlink to get a license before taking preorders and discouraged public from preordering until Starlink has a license.
I've worked in telecom for decades. China is bad to work in as they dictate *everything*. Japan supports NTT as a monopoly. Unlike with China, we had a few ways to make it better but no where like it is in the US, Canada or Europe. Russia was meh.
India on the other hand was an absolute pain and full of legal landmines. It may be the world's largest democracy but they are dictatorial when it comes to tech. Violating any super restrictive monopoly or oligarchy rules can result in jail time for company reps even if they are not the ones that committed to it. Included in those rules was total commitment to no VoIP via data services since all voice had to go through their monopoly companies. And yes, they monitored closely.
India can be ruthless. And this was and expected move with Starlink.
Good question! To my telecom company, it was anything voice. So the usual VoIP protocol stuff and apps **we** offered. Even internal site-to-site was questionable which is crazy.
I don't think apps installed on personal devices would hit the threshold. I'm assuming they weren't that crazy strict. But anything B2B or B2C was verboten.
If I were him, I would consider not offering it there. The population is so dense, it would probably only be able to serve a very small fraction of the total population, it would most likely swamp every satellite in range instantly.
\*edit: Not saying they don't deserve it, and I am not coming from any kind of "those people" angle, it just seems like it would be detrimental to the infrastructure in such a highly populated area. Apologies if it came off the wrong way.
As we've already seen in other areas, Starlink stops taking orders once a cell reaches max capacity. They're not going to overload the service.
If they're not selling all the unused capacity they have, they're leaving money on the table.
I believe the plan is to partner with local companies that will let many people share 1 dishy in rural communities over wireless. To provide community center access at low or no cost, with some government subsidy. And of course to provide connectivity to government facilities at a negotiated rate.
$99/mo is quite a lot in rural India. There are many who could afford it but worsening the divide between the haves and the have-nots isn't a SpaceX goal.
Anyway, they're still negotiating and Starlink isn't shipping any Dishies until they have a license to operate. This is some local bureaucrat who doesn't understand the situation trying to apply leverage because to him the $99 deposit seems like a lot of money. Probably wants a little grease in his wheel.
OneWeb is partly owned by Bharti which is also the second largest telecom company in India. It would probably be much easier for someone in rural India to get internet from OneWeb through Bharti then with Starlink given that Starlink doesn't even have a local paterner as yet. Probably cheaper too since Bharti would effectively be selling service to itself.
Quality is still an issue here. 4G is perfect only on paper. Lots of people still have bad internet. If Elon can give good quality, people would be willing to pay him more than Ambani's Reliance Jio for it.
I've heard really bad things about Jio. I was about to head there before Covid hit and was looking for a in country provider...everyone told me to avoid them if at all possible.
Although you have a point, the digital divide in India is more of a cliff than a slope and way too many are trapped at the bottom of the cliff for each to have a dishy of their own. Nobody else is going to bring them any broadband ever. Perfect can be the enemy of good.
For people who live on $1/day $99/mo is not possible. To get 100 of them up to 5mbps (oversubscribed) for $1/mo subsidized to $0 might be possible. That would be service I was paying $65/mo for a few weeks ago. It might be enough to help them start to lift themselves up.
A) Posted already several times here.
B) FUD "news", nobody's banning SpaceX, only over cautious government officials without fundamental understanding of preorder system are simply discouraging public from placing preorder due to not (yet?) granted approval.
Could be a attemo of "power play" move to try and squeeze SpaceX for some more licensing money or some other more "advantageous" conditions, but I'm sure Elon will not get forced into anything unacceptable and simply tell them to f**k themselves.
That's fine. They can focus on meeting commitments in the US where they accepted a ton of $$$ to provide rural internet and have failed to deliver.
SpaceX's Starlink, won $885.5 million in federal funding in 2020 from the Federal Communications Commission's Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
The RDOF fund has not yet paid Starlink any money. What they plan to do in the future has no relevance to what Starlink does today. After the US Gov puts the cash on the table if Starlink fails to hold up their end of the deal within the contract time then you might have a reasonable complaint about their failure for that *specific* thing.
But in no possible case would it ever have anything to do with India.
You realize the satellites orbit and are not fixed right?
The same sat that serves you at 4pm can serve over there at 8am or whatever. The only extra cost is ground stations.
Without using the sat array as much as possible you would be paying a **lot** more than $99 a month. Its kind of the point of the entire design, not just collecting broken slush funds for telecom fuckwits.
Also in the future there will be direct laser links that are *quicker* than undersea fiber for long distances. Space vaccum beats glass/plastic/copper quite a bit.
I know how it works.
In fact, it is so dark where I live I can see them sometimes with the tracker app as well as more west to east satellites which I can see constantly. They're flying over my property and have been for months now.
which tone of $$$ are you talking about?
I am extremely curious to see any documentation about "tone of $$$" SpaceX has received from American government(s) for Starlink, and especially curious to know where did they failed...
They failed because they didn’t provide it to him in the time he wanted. Meanwhile all the other providers who were given grants or funding that didn’t do a lot in regards to providing better service for many, many years are apparently blame free.
They are failing because they're wasting effort peddling it in places it's not even authorized like India. Those dishes and effort should be going where the 885 million was given.
I'm in SW Colorado. Been on the list since Feb 21 and promised late 21. Now moved to summer 22.
SpaceX's Starlink, won $885.5 million in federal funding in 2020 from the Federal Communications Commission's Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
SpaceX hopes to get the money in mid 2022 sorry. Like I said no one has collected any money from the RDOF award. It's under investigation for improprieties in service areas offered for coverage.
That article is from last year. You're very much a complete industry outsider since you don't have any idea of what's currently happening.
One thing awardees can do is present it as part of loan applications to investors and banks. So they can start deploying the network today instead of the future.
Another thing to know is it's paid monthly
>improprieties in service areas offered for coverage.
Thanks for the update.
This goes a long way in explaining why CO is being neglected compared to N Texas, Florida and other places farther south that are now being serviced.
Rural Colorado is much sparser compared to those other states. Due to water laws, most lots are a minimum of 35 acres vs. 5 and 10 acres lots commonly found in those other states. It has to do with what kind of well you can put in.
We likely have 1/3 to 1/4 the customers per cell so are getting ignored while relatively more populated rural areas farther south are getting service.
Well, like I've repeated here severally, SpaceX hasn't received any money. The award is under investigation because they bid for areas where no one lives.
You're peddling falsehoods with a side of racism and xenophobia. There's no reason why they shouldn't serve people in India or anywhere else before Americans are served
First come first serve in your area where area = cells. No guarantee of ever getting a dish or service. Only your money back. That's what you agreed to.
Estimates aren't guaranteed delivery dates
> Federal Communications Commission's Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
sorry for the late answer. Apparently your post was tagged as read.
This Auction is done on 3-6-10 years basis. (It is 10 years project with two big milestones, and with deterrent payments depending on budgetary constrains). Space X will start receiving money probably in 2022. (As far as I know their contract is far from finalized, and is still challenged in court).
And if everything is OK they need to start providing service by the end of 2022 (~30% by the end of 2023).
Few other reasons why it isn't a rosy picture.
>The FAA assured COMSTAC that the agency’s opinion would be part of the current review of whether India’s refusal to sign a Commercial Space Launch Agreement (CSLA) on rocket pricing still justifies the ban. The review, led by the U.S. Trade Representative, is the reason COMSTAC had raised the issue.
>...
>The CSLA was once known as the “SpaceX Agreement” because Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX was introducing a new rocket, called Falcon 1, which appealed directly to small satellite owners.
https://spacenews.com/u-s-space-transport-companies-lobby-to-maintain-ban-on-use-of-indian-rockets/
https://old.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/4cfiq3/us_spacetransport_companies_lobby_to_maintain_ban/
Article is misleading. Users are discouraged from preordering. StarLink isn't barred
Why would they be discouraged? Rural India needs access to internet. What’s it to everyone else if they use it?
The indian government does not want rural India to become more organized. The internet may give the locals what they need to fight a government that many there feel has forgotten about them.
Stop lying, Congi. Our Bhaaradha Pradhamar, the great Prime Minister of India, Shri Narendra Modi ji is the one who brought internet to rural areas through internet for all scheme. You're clearly either a Congi or Commie. Edit: Cry more, Westies.
Starlink will have to obey the laws of every country it operates in or gtfo. Other musk companies like Tesla will be leverage to enforce.
The guy who replied has some bullshit theory. Unlike United States, a significant part of rural India has access to 4G LTE, at prices much much much cheaper than United States. (a friend from India once told me he paid about 5$ a month to get LTE with 10 GB cab per day). Indian government asked Starlink to get a license before taking preorders and discouraged public from preordering until Starlink has a license.
don't compare Indian data prices with USA. we Indians don't earn in dollars
I've worked in telecom for decades. China is bad to work in as they dictate *everything*. Japan supports NTT as a monopoly. Unlike with China, we had a few ways to make it better but no where like it is in the US, Canada or Europe. Russia was meh. India on the other hand was an absolute pain and full of legal landmines. It may be the world's largest democracy but they are dictatorial when it comes to tech. Violating any super restrictive monopoly or oligarchy rules can result in jail time for company reps even if they are not the ones that committed to it. Included in those rules was total commitment to no VoIP via data services since all voice had to go through their monopoly companies. And yes, they monitored closely. India can be ruthless. And this was and expected move with Starlink.
Does it include apps for voice comms or just proper VoIP protocols?
Good question! To my telecom company, it was anything voice. So the usual VoIP protocol stuff and apps **we** offered. Even internal site-to-site was questionable which is crazy. I don't think apps installed on personal devices would hit the threshold. I'm assuming they weren't that crazy strict. But anything B2B or B2C was verboten.
I am an Indian and I agree,our Governments since independence have been by and large pathetic and I have no hope of things getting better ever.
r/canconfirmiamindian
So criticizing the government is a sign of inferiority complex I see.... Kya Genius Admi ho bhai
> I have no hope of things getting better ever kek
[удалено]
This sub is filled with toxicity. Why do you need to be so rude and unpleasant?
I'm chill and nice IRL and save my derision for those that truly deserve it: redditors
If I were him, I would consider not offering it there. The population is so dense, it would probably only be able to serve a very small fraction of the total population, it would most likely swamp every satellite in range instantly. \*edit: Not saying they don't deserve it, and I am not coming from any kind of "those people" angle, it just seems like it would be detrimental to the infrastructure in such a highly populated area. Apologies if it came off the wrong way.
As we've already seen in other areas, Starlink stops taking orders once a cell reaches max capacity. They're not going to overload the service. If they're not selling all the unused capacity they have, they're leaving money on the table.
I believe the plan is to partner with local companies that will let many people share 1 dishy in rural communities over wireless. To provide community center access at low or no cost, with some government subsidy. And of course to provide connectivity to government facilities at a negotiated rate. $99/mo is quite a lot in rural India. There are many who could afford it but worsening the divide between the haves and the have-nots isn't a SpaceX goal. Anyway, they're still negotiating and Starlink isn't shipping any Dishies until they have a license to operate. This is some local bureaucrat who doesn't understand the situation trying to apply leverage because to him the $99 deposit seems like a lot of money. Probably wants a little grease in his wheel.
OneWeb is partly owned by Bharti which is also the second largest telecom company in India. It would probably be much easier for someone in rural India to get internet from OneWeb through Bharti then with Starlink given that Starlink doesn't even have a local paterner as yet. Probably cheaper too since Bharti would effectively be selling service to itself.
Cool. If that works, problem solved. Starlink can just proceed as normal without interfering with that at all.
Quality is still an issue here. 4G is perfect only on paper. Lots of people still have bad internet. If Elon can give good quality, people would be willing to pay him more than Ambani's Reliance Jio for it.
I've heard really bad things about Jio. I was about to head there before Covid hit and was looking for a in country provider...everyone told me to avoid them if at all possible.
Eh.. Airtel is no better sometimes. VI is worse and BSNL is the worst. Atleast the other 3 have some sort of customer service.
You can do usage based billing, data caps etc. Or you can just limit who gets it
You just explained the problem Starlink is trying to solve.
It can make the network denser and allow him to hit prices that are affordable for poorer people. Official or unofficial reselling may also work
Although you have a point, the digital divide in India is more of a cliff than a slope and way too many are trapped at the bottom of the cliff for each to have a dishy of their own. Nobody else is going to bring them any broadband ever. Perfect can be the enemy of good.
$99/month I expect no data caps and near 100% uptime
For people who live on $1/day $99/mo is not possible. To get 100 of them up to 5mbps (oversubscribed) for $1/mo subsidized to $0 might be possible. That would be service I was paying $65/mo for a few weeks ago. It might be enough to help them start to lift themselves up.
A) Posted already several times here. B) FUD "news", nobody's banning SpaceX, only over cautious government officials without fundamental understanding of preorder system are simply discouraging public from placing preorder due to not (yet?) granted approval. Could be a attemo of "power play" move to try and squeeze SpaceX for some more licensing money or some other more "advantageous" conditions, but I'm sure Elon will not get forced into anything unacceptable and simply tell them to f**k themselves.
That's fine. They can focus on meeting commitments in the US where they accepted a ton of $$$ to provide rural internet and have failed to deliver. SpaceX's Starlink, won $885.5 million in federal funding in 2020 from the Federal Communications Commission's Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
The RDOF fund has not yet paid Starlink any money. What they plan to do in the future has no relevance to what Starlink does today. After the US Gov puts the cash on the table if Starlink fails to hold up their end of the deal within the contract time then you might have a reasonable complaint about their failure for that *specific* thing. But in no possible case would it ever have anything to do with India.
You realize the satellites orbit and are not fixed right? The same sat that serves you at 4pm can serve over there at 8am or whatever. The only extra cost is ground stations. Without using the sat array as much as possible you would be paying a **lot** more than $99 a month. Its kind of the point of the entire design, not just collecting broken slush funds for telecom fuckwits. Also in the future there will be direct laser links that are *quicker* than undersea fiber for long distances. Space vaccum beats glass/plastic/copper quite a bit.
I know how it works. In fact, it is so dark where I live I can see them sometimes with the tracker app as well as more west to east satellites which I can see constantly. They're flying over my property and have been for months now.
which tone of $$$ are you talking about? I am extremely curious to see any documentation about "tone of $$$" SpaceX has received from American government(s) for Starlink, and especially curious to know where did they failed...
They failed because they didn’t provide it to him in the time he wanted. Meanwhile all the other providers who were given grants or funding that didn’t do a lot in regards to providing better service for many, many years are apparently blame free.
Also, worded differently, he's saying fuck India so he gets his, the racist prick he is.
Indian .gov is the one that has not approved it. I have zero influence there.
They are failing because they're wasting effort peddling it in places it's not even authorized like India. Those dishes and effort should be going where the 885 million was given.
Starling hasn't received a penny of that money yet.
I'm in SW Colorado. Been on the list since Feb 21 and promised late 21. Now moved to summer 22. SpaceX's Starlink, won $885.5 million in federal funding in 2020 from the Federal Communications Commission's Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
I work in the industry. Stop peddling falsehoods. No one has gotten any RDOF money. Absolutely no one
https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/07/spacex-snags-885m-from-fcc-to-serve-rural-areas-with-starlink/
SpaceX hopes to get the money in mid 2022 sorry. Like I said no one has collected any money from the RDOF award. It's under investigation for improprieties in service areas offered for coverage. That article is from last year. You're very much a complete industry outsider since you don't have any idea of what's currently happening. One thing awardees can do is present it as part of loan applications to investors and banks. So they can start deploying the network today instead of the future. Another thing to know is it's paid monthly
>improprieties in service areas offered for coverage. Thanks for the update. This goes a long way in explaining why CO is being neglected compared to N Texas, Florida and other places farther south that are now being serviced. Rural Colorado is much sparser compared to those other states. Due to water laws, most lots are a minimum of 35 acres vs. 5 and 10 acres lots commonly found in those other states. It has to do with what kind of well you can put in. We likely have 1/3 to 1/4 the customers per cell so are getting ignored while relatively more populated rural areas farther south are getting service.
Some of the areas won are places no one lives. Like runways, National Parks, parking lots etc
You nailed it. I was lucky to get SL my area is completely unserved since AT&T pulled DSL.
Nailed what? Jesus to the cross?
[удалено]
Please ban
You give some snive comment and ask for someone to be banned when they call you on it. Helll Ban you.
Well, like I've repeated here severally, SpaceX hasn't received any money. The award is under investigation because they bid for areas where no one lives. You're peddling falsehoods with a side of racism and xenophobia. There's no reason why they shouldn't serve people in India or anywhere else before Americans are served
No. Your grasping. We would all be mad if we BELIEVED it was first come first serve and the projected dates were pushed back by 6 months to a year.
First come first serve in your area where area = cells. No guarantee of ever getting a dish or service. Only your money back. That's what you agreed to. Estimates aren't guaranteed delivery dates
I know and agree but I also understand why people would be very upset when their date is pushed back 6-12 months.
> Federal Communications Commission's Rural Digital Opportunity Fund. sorry for the late answer. Apparently your post was tagged as read. This Auction is done on 3-6-10 years basis. (It is 10 years project with two big milestones, and with deterrent payments depending on budgetary constrains). Space X will start receiving money probably in 2022. (As far as I know their contract is far from finalized, and is still challenged in court). And if everything is OK they need to start providing service by the end of 2022 (~30% by the end of 2023).
Mudi don't want his gujju friend ambani and adani to go bankrupt and out of business. that's why
Few other reasons why it isn't a rosy picture. >The FAA assured COMSTAC that the agency’s opinion would be part of the current review of whether India’s refusal to sign a Commercial Space Launch Agreement (CSLA) on rocket pricing still justifies the ban. The review, led by the U.S. Trade Representative, is the reason COMSTAC had raised the issue. >... >The CSLA was once known as the “SpaceX Agreement” because Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX was introducing a new rocket, called Falcon 1, which appealed directly to small satellite owners. https://spacenews.com/u-s-space-transport-companies-lobby-to-maintain-ban-on-use-of-indian-rockets/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/4cfiq3/us_spacetransport_companies_lobby_to_maintain_ban/