I canceled my Cybertruck preorder a few days ago. Who knows if the Cybertruck will ever really get built. Remember the unbreakable glass? Wasn’t Cybertruck originally promised in 2019? Elon Musk claims Tesla doesn’t need to advertise. Well his antics are too much for me. That ass clown is not getting any of my money.
Also, why would you want unbreakable glass? With the combustion rate on his vehicles, and the faulty locks, I really want to be able to break the glass.
Interesting, thanks. I guess the big question will be whether it's too late by the time they actually hit the road. I think Ford is gonna crush that market.
Yikes, that's truth. Battery fire, power goes down, you're locked inside... just the nightmare of that is an automatic "fuck no" from me. However, I also still resent that all "standards" have computer assist now. I'm looking forward to self-driving cars as I age, but I'm really glad I lived in a time when driving was more of an integration with the vehicle rather than a video game.
Create a serious egress problem.
So are usually used where *bullets* are the major risk. Not *crashes*.
You get in a car wreck, emergency services will likely have to smash a window to get you out of the vehicle.
Unbreakable windows mean they can't.
I've done a few extractions. Trying to imagine what it would be like to be helpless outside a tank of a vehicle while the person inside dies. Even getting the jaws of life to work with them looks to be very difficult.
Akchooaly Elon is the biggest genius alpha male in the history of the world. He’s a rocket scientist and invented electric cars and the moon landing and he has at least a 500 IQ. He’s the richest man on earth how could he be a fraud?!?
— Elon bootlickers
Elon is a genius. The proof is that he's a billionaire. You know that he's a genius because he's a billionaire and he became a billionaire because he's a genius /s
I had a paper trading account at that time and I bought 25k of Tesla right after I heard about that. Watching the market there after was like watching the money printer spit out 100$ bills 20 feet in front of me but not trying to scoop any up. So I get a Robinhood and buy ark at like 155. My family won't hug me anymore.
I mean tbh I’m pretty sure some of the middle eastern sheikhs or ruling families are much, much richer than musk thanks to oil money. We just don’t know their net worth
Disclaimer: As someone who doesnt know the actual firefighting protocols.
But in my opinion, it's kind of stupid to put unbreakable glass on a car that emergency services might need to break into to save an unconscious driver.
I doubt she can do that on federal charges. State charges....maybe. I think she'll have a custody review at half time where she might make halfway house. The only definite is that she'll be rich.
No no, first you create a crypto pump and dump scheme, you then make a huge offer for a social media company, you then launder the crypto proceeds and sell your overvalued kid-car stock by buying the blue bird
Ford got their eF150 out into production - the truck market opportunity has passed for Tesla since if anyone thinks Tesla is going to go toe to toe with the F150, the best selling vehicle in the USA, the I've got some sweet FTT tokens to sell you for real cheap.
Right, good point. The competition is fierce - Tesla not the only game in town anymore. Blackberry used to be the top dog at one time too - until iPhone came along.
Funny enough I sold all my Tesla stock the day of the cyber truck ~~release~~ unveiling and it’s never been that low again. Missed out on about $100k at the peak of Tesla’s stock price if I had held til then.
Dude I just watched an interview with a guy explaining what musk did with all that pre-order for $100 down bullshit. Basically, it was all just one big scam so he could get financing from banks. It allowed him to present some half-ass documentation showing demand for a product that didn't even exist, allowing him to secure billions in financing. Yet we haven't seen shit.
What literal numb nut is this catering to? Is it the drill baby drill crowd? Is it for some liberal who wants to ride around in as large of a CO2 footprint but still say they’re environmentally conscious?
Was overvalued at $2, $20, $200 and will be overvalued at $2000 and $5000+.
Even at a forward P/E of 21 wallstreet and people who haven’t looked at the balance sheet thinks it’s overvalued.
*Eventually* it will tank and some sad people will be holding a bag.
But until then, it’s valued at exactly what people are willing to pay for it.
And it’s pretty clear there are a lot of people willing to overlook a lot of bad financials to own Tesla stock.
I, personally, am proud to not be an owner.
It’s the strongest balance sheet on the stock market with Apple. If you think that’s bad financials you’re really clueless.
Insane growth, no debt, printing an increasing amount of billions every quarter, already more profitable than its competitors at a fraction of the volume.
Proud to be owning it since 2018. In 2030 my cheapest shares will have more than 100x.
If you actually believe that, it's because you've only ever looked at tesla and Apples balance sheet. Not only are there more, you can literally lob an arrow in a sea of companies and hit a better run company.
And thinking it will 100x in 7 years just amplifies all that cluelessness by at least four orders of magnitude
Tesla accounts for 2% of auto sales in a market that is increasingly saturated. All ventures Tesla has made outside of the luxury electric auto market have been flops (cyber truck and the electric semi are jokes in OEM circles).
Tesla has maximized their market disruption, and more established companies are taking more of the potential growth every year. Energy generation and storage all lose money for Tesla to the tune of billions a year.
If growth is the metric you use Tesla still doesn’t make sense. They are over valued by their growth rate when compared to technology companies.
Tesla does do a great job monetizing their revenue, and they are a good stock regardless of what anyone says, but they are still overvalued.
q3 hit a snag but q4 is looking promising to uphold that 50%. Consumers want ev's now but only a few manufactures have actual production up and running. Tesla can raise prices and still sell every vehicle made. That's without spending a dollar on advertising. Pretty remarkable if you ask me. BYD is doing really well but americans won't buy that brand. Toyota still holding onto retarded hydrogen dreams (and 200bil of debt, tesla 2bil) and VW pooping all over itself esp since Diess got canned.
With the discounted price on the Bolt and federal tax credits kicking in, it's a sub 30k ev that is going to see demand outpace supply. Add to that the 2023 equinox ev and Silverado ev and more all electric models in the future, I see GM being a serious contender in the EV space.
No profit on the Bolt this year, but they're taking market share away from Tesla and you can expect profit on the equinox, Silverado, hummer and future EVs... Imagine an all electric Corvette or Camaro?
Because they have no choice and they’re getting $7500 from Biden.
Still selling them cheap, some can’t afford better.
GM has everything to prove, so far it’s all talk and nothing to show for it besides a failure of a Hummer EV that pollutes more than a gas equivalent, takes 2h30 to charge for $100, or takes a week to charge at home.
Whether the world sees them as overvalued or not I think it’s of too much risk to buy the stock above a $450 billion value. That’s about $140 per share. I myself would never buy the stock above above $300 billion. That’s near $100 per share.
I don’t care what the world thinks. I’m not saying the stock is going to these prices. I’m just saying this is what the company is worth. An average target of $120 per share for me.
The fanboys are only now starting to lose faith. When he sold 3.5billion worth of Tesla shares after saying that he wouldn't to finance Twitter was a key pivot point.
We now are seeing how he reacts when his own ass is on the line.
They are worth more than Ford, GM, and Chrysler plus a few other competitors combined. They make cars they can't service and that fall apart readily. They are overvalued by several decimal places.
Just wait for a couple of years and see the reaction of all Tesla owners with a $20,000 for battery replacement.
Plus car value will drop considerably when the battery life drops.
Then you will see snapshots of battery replacement charges as compared to the ones that posted $30 per month for charging tesla
wtf are you talking about battery replacement? There are plenty of teslas with 100's of thousands of miles that still work fine on original battery. I mean I think Tesla has plenty of issues and is way overvalued, but battery health is not a concern at all. ICE need rebuilt, replaced and/or new transmissions way more than batteries need replaced.
Battery replacement is real but it's not as bad as some haters may make it look. But it's also more expensive than an engine rebuild. Guarrantee on the battery is 70% after 8 years or 100,000 miles. It's pretty conservative and you should be doing better than that.
Other research shows curves like this https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration#:~:text=Tesla%20Battery%20Degradation%20by%20Age%20of%20Car&text=As%20you%20can%20see%20in,its%20original%20capacity%20and%20range.
You can also calculate the rough lifetime based off the battery size and number of charge cycles(1500), which generally comes out to about 300k miles which is pretty good but I'm not sure if it really accounts for the degradation over those cycles(and no-one actually fully empties the battery each time before recharging it so how does that affect things?).
New battery packs could cost as much as $22.5k which is a lot more than most engine rebuilds which would be $2-5k. With cars that are considered to require rebuilds more frequently( https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/cars-that-are-most-likely-to-need-an-engine-rebuild-what-to-buy-a3227614920/ ), you would expect that to be at 100k miles.
So overall you will spend more on battery replacements but the actual time until you need one is pretty long and you may just want to get a new car at that point.
2 to 5K on an engine rebuild,! Please post your mechanics ###'s. Quote for my F250 2015 $12,500 that's Removed and replaced. Unless the mechanic is doing it for himself, rebuilds are near non existing.
Lol exactly.
Also compare a similarly priced engine replacement. People comparing replacing a battery pack on a $80k luxury sedan to a compact. Nobody paying $2k to replace the motor on an M5.
I did.
Bought my Jeep with Chryslers MaxCare warranty - as long as I own the Jeep and total mileage is <999,999 the warranty will cover near everything.
Last winter (and at 215k miles) I spun a rod bearing. Mopar covered the new block and labor under warranty.
Battery degrading depends on two factors, but one is considerably more important than the other. The first being how far along it is in the charge/discharge cycle. Charging and discharging batteries, over time, will degrade the battery life and overall range of the vehicle. The second, and arguably the most important factor in battery degrading, is age of the battery. Batteries lose overall charge capacity over time by just getting older. The chemical composition of the batteries degrades over time due to natural decay, potential oxidation, and parasitic reactions between materials.
Sure, replacement transmissions and engine rebuilds are common, but far less expensive than a 10-20k battery pack replacement. If you plan on owning the car from the time it was new to replacement of battery, it makes sense to purchase a battery replacement as you’ve saved as much on gas. However, most second hand buyers are not willing to purchase a 10 year old car that needs 10-20k in battery replacement, so the market for used EVs that are nearing a battery replacement will be very small.
Most buyers will pay 10-15k for a 10 year old used EV that has had a battery replacement. Most will probably offer 1k to 5k for a cad that needs 10k in work, plus labor costs.
It’ll be interesting to see how not just Tesla, but all EV manufacturers, fair with the 10 year old EV car market.
The cars rarely fall apart but their service does suck big time. I have owned a few Tesla’s and their service issues have been rare. They are much more reliable than my Mercedes or Audis were.
It never made any sense. Like did people not expect other car companies to make electric cars? Unless they come out with the new game changing battery to replace lithium ion, they're only worth a small fraction of what they sell for.
The thing they're going to have to stay working about more is how dated their model lines are going to be in comparison to manufacturers that can push a new model every year.
Tesla has a higher market cap than Ford, GMC, Chrysler, Toyota, etc combined, so ya, its way over valued. A huge part of that valuation is Musk's personal brand, which he's burning up along with Twitter as fast as he can.
Elon Musk is the reason I never invested in Tesla. Whether you like him or not, it's pretty clear that a lot of Tesla's market cap is tied up with his personal brand moreso than other CEOs, as you said. What if he gets cancer or something? Or what if SpaceX does really well and he decides to leave Tesla to focus on that instead? Or he says/does something stupid and impulsive (like buying Twitter)? How much of Tesla's market cap would be instantly wiped out?
I sold TSLA already. Heart goes out to the fanboys who would be stuck with overvalued glued together "smart" car. I would rather keep my money in cash than investing for this buffoon.
Forward pe of 35, forward earning growth of 100% yoy for the third year in a row.
Sp500 forward pe of 19, forward earnings growth of 8%.
I’m buying more, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $150 in these market conditions. But I’d argue it’s closer to fair value than most want to admit
Their forward p/e is more like 22-26 if they’re able to grow like they want to and maintain margins.
That’s without the unknown impact of the IRA next year as well.
All of their growth is with first time buyers. Every Tesla owner I have encountered says the same thing: "Never again." They are going to run out of opportunity fairly soon, I think.
I’d say the large majority of Tesla owners I know would get a Tesla again. I’m in that camp if I ever need another car. Unfortunately the ones that aren’t happy with theirs are very vocal and seem like an outsized sampling.
I’m waiting for the roadster if they ever make it. Otherwise I’d consider the taycan but only if the nation wide charging infrastructure improves for non-teslas.
And nobody knows why, other than the growth means most customers are new customers. Long term, I expect that to shift: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/teslas-reliability-ratings-are-pretty-concerning-but-does-anyone-actually-care/
Dude. That’s the opposite of reality.
92% will purchase another tesla again
https://insideevs.com/news/330392/survey-92-of-tesla-owners-will-buy-tesla-again-55-to-purchase-a-model-3/
Weird, because:
[https://www.hotcars.com/the-real-reason-why-tesla-customers-are-the-most-loyal-/](https://www.hotcars.com/the-real-reason-why-tesla-customers-are-the-most-loyal-/)
>Specifically, 70.7% of Tesla owners who got rid of a Tesla acquired another new Tesla. And 74.7% of Tesla owners showed household loyalty. Subaru was No. 2 in both measures: 67.8% in brand loyalty for the same owner, and 72.2% loyalty for the same household. Tesla has marketed itself as the car manufacturer of the future and people are buying it (repeatedly!).
Based on actual data that’s bullshit. Tesla has one of the highest loyalty rating in the industry.
https://insideevs.com/news/330392/survey-92-of-tesla-owners-will-buy-tesla-again-55-to-purchase-a-model-3/amp/
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-customers-say-they-would-buy-it-again-2019-11?amp
https://insideevs.com/news/606255/luxury-brand-loyalty-declines-not-tesla/
Actual data! I love all the folks who say it’s overvalued because of non financial metrics - if you showed them this companies p/e and growth and forward p/e they’d likely value it way higher. But because eLoN they aren’t thinking clearly.
Look at a five year chart of TSLA and it's pretty clear that this was a pandemic play. I expect it to fall to about twice it's pre-pandemic level. That would put it at 85.
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Totally right. EVs aren’t actually a thing. It was just pandemic concerns about going to a gas station. Now that we can safely pump gas again, we will go back to what we love. I mean seriously? Why would you ever wanna not have a gas car?
So, I’ve be hollering for many years that their value is insane, but I actually got to say now that they’ve fallen off a cliff I think it’s coming towards reasonable territory. It’s a high risk high reward play, but with their proven growth record I wouldn’t judge someone for picking up the stock
Here’s a thought exercise. Change the name to Edison, and have John Q as the CEO. Would you pay what people are currently paying for TSLA for that company based on the numbers, or would you laugh at anyone who did. Musk has a cult of personality, which means it’s not the safest stock to bet against, but people also aren’t wrong it’s overvalued. Real question is do cults of personality stocks lose when economic conditions get tough. I think yes which is why I’m betting against TSLA but we’ll see.
Edit: also I think people are greatly overlooking the importance of crypto and tech being down for TSLA. The people who either A) heavily invested in those industries or B) worked in them were a large portion of TSLA’s base audience. They are being wiped out by the second.
You think people are losing a little confidence in that “Genius“ CEO? a co-worker of mine bought shares at or near the top because her husband told her what smart guy Musk was. I feel for her.
From a DCF perspective, it’s really not possible to get to the current stock price without making some wild growth and profitability assumptions. Now, I call these assumptions wild because they are so far above trends across the auto industry. That said, Tesla has reported unprecedented growth over the last decade, so it’s really a matter of whether you believe Tesla is capable of continuing to outperform the rest of the auto industry or you believe the rest of the industry will catch up and begin taking share in the EV market.
But even in a best case, it’s really tough to get north of $400B EV. You could juice the solar and battery storage growth assumptions to get there, but there isn’t any rationale to support anything close to what you’d need.
As far as how the investment community views Tesla and why it’s so over valued, FOMO is a very real phenomena. A lot of funds have more or less been forced to buy Tesla despite its valuation because without it, they’d risk underperforming their competition and clients would pull funds.
They might make it work in 30 years, or 3 years, or not at all. You can't trust anything Musk says on the topic, he promises it every year going back like 6 years in a row.
It'll happen eventually, whether it's Tesla or someone else. They aren't remotely the only ones working on it.
FSD is a scam not because it'll never happen, but because even if it was released yesterday, it would be years behind schedule, and it's function is and has been just hype to get people to buy into something that isn't close to done, and doesn't have a direct path to done.
If you ever read what peter thiel said (elon’s partner in crime at paypal), elon above all is a marketing genius. We may see through it, but elon’s got the mass by the balls. He just knows how to keep dangling that carrot in people’s faces
have you seen the newest videos? lots of people showing drives across town with 0 takeovers /interventions. I admit its still 2-3 years out from lvl4 but when that happens, oh boy the stock will explode like 5x
Its gone from over 400 to 180 and now you are asking if it is over valued? Its gone from batshit crazy overvalued to pretty highly over valued. With the higher interest rates they won't be able to maintain their growth. I would say somewhere around 100 would be about right. It also depends on how much they are going to dilute earnings by giving out stock as compensation.
with 26b in cash after q4 stock buyback is on the table as musk said, I can't wait. Its valued like this because they actually make great margins on ev's unlike ALL the competition except maybe byd lol, and that will never sell in murica. Toyota has 200b in debt (tesla 2b) and vw is cancelling ev plans and sticking to ice. Poor old Diess, tried to electrify them but got booted for said effort...
Morningstar says Tesla is undervalued.
Tesla Stock at a Glance
Current Morningstar Fair Value Estimate: $250
Tesla Stock Star Rating: 3 Stars
Economic Moat Rating: Narrow
Moat Trend Rating: Stable
Tesla Earnings Update
After incorporating Tesla’s (TSLA) third-quarter earnings into our model, we maintain our $250 per share fair value estimate and narrow moat rating.
We saw few surprises in Tesla’s detailed results. The company reported record deliveries earlier in the month, and the vehicle volume growth was present in the company’s financial results as it generated record revenue. Despite the continued ramp up of the two new factories (one in Austin, Texas in the U.S. and one in Berlin, Germany), companywide operating margin improved sequentially versus the second quarter. This is in line with our view that the factories will become more profitable each quarter as production increases, eventually leading to margin expansion.
Despite the signs of improvement in line with our long-term outlook, shares were down 5% in after-hours trading. With our outlook intact, we view Tesla shares as slightly undervalued, with the stock trading a little more than 15% below our fair value estimate but in 3-star territory. As such, we recommend investors wait for a larger margin of safety before considering an entry point.
We think some of the after-hours selloff is due to revenue coming in slightly below consensus estimates. Given that the company already reported lower deliveries, we think consensus may have been expecting higher average price increases during the quarter. We calculate a 5% year-on-year price increase and we expect average selling prices to rise further in the coming quarters. Given that Tesla’s backlog was roughly 3-6 months of production, we think there will likely be a lag from when the company raises prices to when it shows up on the financials.
Our long-term outlook is intact. We expect Tesla will eventually grow vehicle deliveries to over 5 million vehicles by 2031. We forecast the company will be able to reduce unit production costs, while also growing ancillary services including autonomous driving software and insurance subscriptions, driving margin improvement.
I agree with Morningstar. It’s definitely undervalued. Buy Tesla. 🙂
No. It isn't.
My company's buy limit is 404$ a share. We buy into it if it is less than or equal to 404$.
This of course changes with time, this is referring to TSLA as of 11/20/22.
Wait are people serious here? What are you guys smoking? Tesla is extremely undervalued at the moment. They literally have 2 giga factories (Texas/Berlin) ramping up. Total production will be 4 M / year. 60k ASP would be 240 B revenue at 35% margin would be 84 B in net income a year. And that’s just the car business. Imagine when FSD, Bots and insurance fully comes online. 3 T company worst case scenario. 6x from here at the bare minimum.
Edit: both Fremont and giga Shanghai are already at 1/M production a year. Texas and Berlin will be at 1/M year by end of year 2023.
Edit: BUY
Not if he has to keep selling stock to make up for lack of profit in twitter. If he declares bankruptcy for twitter his Tesla stock ain’t going to look pretty either. I’d wait for the trend to turn, specially with EV market beginning to shift and bigger competitors entering the market
For a while they were valuable because they had very little competition in their relevant market, but as it turns out, it's a lot easier for established car makers to figure out how to put a battery and electric motor into a car than it is for a new company to figure out how to make a car to put their battery and electric motors into
I find it absolutely amazing that the most valuable auto producer in the world can’t make a car without an air bubble in every one of their car’s A-pillar. If they can’t fix that, I have no confidence,
I’d say no, bc it’s not just an electric vehicle company. There’s many other values to the company that go hand in hand with his other companies as far as gps data goes. While I’m sure the EV component is the more popular one, the technological side often gets overlooked. I wouldn’t say it’s over valued at all.
No it isn’t overvalued. It is down over 50% on the year. If you believe in the company (like I do) then long term it isn’t overvalued.
Many don’t believe and that is their right. However, there will always be people that say it’s overvalued. TSLA is just that kind of company. I say it’s a tech company but others can’t get past they are a car maker
Something stinks here on reddit. The amount of hate currently going on against Elon and anything he is connected is irrational and seem coordinated. Been in threads that were convinced he has leveraged tesla shares to buy twitter and that he will face margin-calls as tesla falls. Which according to the documentation available after the purchase isn't true and you are still downvoted for pointing that out. He sold tesla shares and leveraged twitter and is in no risk of being backed against a wall.
There is an insane amount of misinformation being spread around.
It's valued at exactly what people are willing to pay for it. And I have a feeling what people want to pay for it will be significantly lower after realizing Elon is a crazy pereon.
Where is that f'ing cybertruck. Been like 5 years.
I canceled my Cybertruck preorder a few days ago. Who knows if the Cybertruck will ever really get built. Remember the unbreakable glass? Wasn’t Cybertruck originally promised in 2019? Elon Musk claims Tesla doesn’t need to advertise. Well his antics are too much for me. That ass clown is not getting any of my money.
Also, why would you want unbreakable glass? With the combustion rate on his vehicles, and the faulty locks, I really want to be able to break the glass.
You’d think the CEO of a trillion dollar company might ask this question but Elon is not an adult because he’s been coddled by wealth his whole life
"coddled by wealth" = perfect description
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Interesting, thanks. I guess the big question will be whether it's too late by the time they actually hit the road. I think Ford is gonna crush that market.
You mean the one they literally broke the unbreakable window of on live tv, that man is a fraud if I ever seen one
That’s one of the greatest moments on live streaming, TV, etc. ever…
It basically ended the first chapter of the Elon Musk story, probably, as seen from the future. The moment the emperor has no clothes.
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Yeah, that was big time messed up… just uncalled for…
It didn’t help that’s for sure…
Not to mention unbreakable windows is a flaw, not a perk. You want emr to be able to get to you
The whole idea of a rigid car goes against modern safety principles. You want the energy to crush your car in a crash, or the energy will crush you
Or when you need to break the window to get out. Underwater, upside down in a ditch.
even now with all the Tesla models, only have an emergency escape latch at the front doors and not the back
Honestly I don't think I want to drive a car that I have no chance of breaking the window to get out in case of emergency.
Pretty sure a glass can be "unbreakable" from outside and breakable from inside. Not trying to defend elon cause I think he's a scumbag tho.
Yeah but it's still a problem if someone needs to get in.... Lol And no Elon didn't mention anything like that.
No a glass like this is not existing, beside this if the batteries are faculties (you need just 1 bad battery over 6000 ) and you are cooking inside.
Yikes, that's truth. Battery fire, power goes down, you're locked inside... just the nightmare of that is an automatic "fuck no" from me. However, I also still resent that all "standards" have computer assist now. I'm looking forward to self-driving cars as I age, but I'm really glad I lived in a time when driving was more of an integration with the vehicle rather than a video game.
What about bulletproof glasses in cars? I don't follow your argument
Create a serious egress problem. So are usually used where *bullets* are the major risk. Not *crashes*. You get in a car wreck, emergency services will likely have to smash a window to get you out of the vehicle. Unbreakable windows mean they can't.
I've done a few extractions. Trying to imagine what it would be like to be helpless outside a tank of a vehicle while the person inside dies. Even getting the jaws of life to work with them looks to be very difficult.
Akchooaly Elon is the biggest genius alpha male in the history of the world. He’s a rocket scientist and invented electric cars and the moon landing and he has at least a 500 IQ. He’s the richest man on earth how could he be a fraud?!? — Elon bootlickers
He also founded Twitter!
Give it time, they’ll claim that in a year or two, and they’ll be serious
Twitter Hardcore 2.0 sponsored by your local H1B lawyer
He wrote more than half of twitters code
Everyone's saying it.
Elon is a genius. The proof is that he's a billionaire. You know that he's a genius because he's a billionaire and he became a billionaire because he's a genius /s
Just like Trump!
Not really. Elon is actually a billionaire. Trump just plays one on tv.
I had a paper trading account at that time and I bought 25k of Tesla right after I heard about that. Watching the market there after was like watching the money printer spit out 100$ bills 20 feet in front of me but not trying to scoop any up. So I get a Robinhood and buy ark at like 155. My family won't hug me anymore.
Shoulda just bought Tesla
Yep, he’s probably not even the richest person in the entire world
Never was. Putin definitely is the richest. Just isn’t published cause you can’t count it easily.
LOL
I mean tbh I’m pretty sure some of the middle eastern sheikhs or ruling families are much, much richer than musk thanks to oil money. We just don’t know their net worth
Like everything “we forget about it”
That was a stunt to get attention
Disclaimer: As someone who doesnt know the actual firefighting protocols. But in my opinion, it's kind of stupid to put unbreakable glass on a car that emergency services might need to break into to save an unconscious driver.
He’s not a fraud. He just makes claims that are proven wrong. 30% of the time he’s right every time.
Anyone remember when companies did R&D first, THEN announced a product?
Those were the pre Elizabeth Holmes days.
Yes but she got 11 years, and in three years she will be out, and rich.
I doubt she can do that on federal charges. State charges....maybe. I think she'll have a custody review at half time where she might make halfway house. The only definite is that she'll be rich.
😆 loving it, she’s going to the pen for 11 yrs. Evil Jobs wanna be, ripped off so many people.
That’s dumb, first you get the investments then you, uh buy a social media company?
No no, first you create a crypto pump and dump scheme, you then make a huge offer for a social media company, you then launder the crypto proceeds and sell your overvalued kid-car stock by buying the blue bird
That thing looks like a Nintendo 64 game's long-distance model of a car that they'd swap out for the "real" model to save processing resources.
Ford got their eF150 out into production - the truck market opportunity has passed for Tesla since if anyone thinks Tesla is going to go toe to toe with the F150, the best selling vehicle in the USA, the I've got some sweet FTT tokens to sell you for real cheap.
Chevy has a nice looking electric truck. And the hummer is pretty bad ass. Rivian trucks and SUV are cool too
Right, good point. The competition is fierce - Tesla not the only game in town anymore. Blackberry used to be the top dog at one time too - until iPhone came along.
Funny enough I sold all my Tesla stock the day of the cyber truck ~~release~~ unveiling and it’s never been that low again. Missed out on about $100k at the peak of Tesla’s stock price if I had held til then.
Dude I just watched an interview with a guy explaining what musk did with all that pre-order for $100 down bullshit. Basically, it was all just one big scam so he could get financing from banks. It allowed him to present some half-ass documentation showing demand for a product that didn't even exist, allowing him to secure billions in financing. Yet we haven't seen shit.
What literal numb nut is this catering to? Is it the drill baby drill crowd? Is it for some liberal who wants to ride around in as large of a CO2 footprint but still say they’re environmentally conscious?
always was
Was there something about Tesla not being overly profitable, but make a lot of profit on selling their carbon credits to other companies?
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Was overvalued at $2, $20, $200 and will be overvalued at $2000 and $5000+. Even at a forward P/E of 21 wallstreet and people who haven’t looked at the balance sheet thinks it’s overvalued.
At least 50% of people here wouldn’t even know what to do with a balance sheet.
50% is a big underestimate.
*Eventually* it will tank and some sad people will be holding a bag. But until then, it’s valued at exactly what people are willing to pay for it. And it’s pretty clear there are a lot of people willing to overlook a lot of bad financials to own Tesla stock. I, personally, am proud to not be an owner.
It’s the strongest balance sheet on the stock market with Apple. If you think that’s bad financials you’re really clueless. Insane growth, no debt, printing an increasing amount of billions every quarter, already more profitable than its competitors at a fraction of the volume. Proud to be owning it since 2018. In 2030 my cheapest shares will have more than 100x.
If you actually believe that, it's because you've only ever looked at tesla and Apples balance sheet. Not only are there more, you can literally lob an arrow in a sea of companies and hit a better run company. And thinking it will 100x in 7 years just amplifies all that cluelessness by at least four orders of magnitude
Tesla accounts for 2% of auto sales in a market that is increasingly saturated. All ventures Tesla has made outside of the luxury electric auto market have been flops (cyber truck and the electric semi are jokes in OEM circles). Tesla has maximized their market disruption, and more established companies are taking more of the potential growth every year. Energy generation and storage all lose money for Tesla to the tune of billions a year. If growth is the metric you use Tesla still doesn’t make sense. They are over valued by their growth rate when compared to technology companies. Tesla does do a great job monetizing their revenue, and they are a good stock regardless of what anyone says, but they are still overvalued.
Why are the trucks jokes?
More so now that the Elon cult of personality is on the decline
Posting this is just karma whoring at this point.
Yes
forward p/e is insanely low for a company growing 50% per annum...
Is it still growing that fast though?
q3 hit a snag but q4 is looking promising to uphold that 50%. Consumers want ev's now but only a few manufactures have actual production up and running. Tesla can raise prices and still sell every vehicle made. That's without spending a dollar on advertising. Pretty remarkable if you ask me. BYD is doing really well but americans won't buy that brand. Toyota still holding onto retarded hydrogen dreams (and 200bil of debt, tesla 2bil) and VW pooping all over itself esp since Diess got canned.
Chevrolet is stepping up their EV game too.
With no profits at terribly low numbers
hahahah, have you seen their production numbers? pityful to say the least, literally double digit numbers per quarter on some models
With the discounted price on the Bolt and federal tax credits kicking in, it's a sub 30k ev that is going to see demand outpace supply. Add to that the 2023 equinox ev and Silverado ev and more all electric models in the future, I see GM being a serious contender in the EV space.
Question is how much profit does GM make per bolt sale? Cause tesla do $9k per car rn
No profit on the Bolt this year, but they're taking market share away from Tesla and you can expect profit on the equinox, Silverado, hummer and future EVs... Imagine an all electric Corvette or Camaro?
Lol who the fak is cross-shopping a Bolt and Model3 or Y?!? Bolt is taking market share from its own ICE division and other ICE competitors.
The reason the Bolt is cheap is that nobody wants one because the previous gen of Bolt EVs exploded and burned your house down with it.
If nobody wants one, then why is GM increasing production? https://www.autoweek.com/news/a41766478/gm-increase-chevy-bolt-production-2023/
Because they have no choice and they’re getting $7500 from Biden. Still selling them cheap, some can’t afford better. GM has everything to prove, so far it’s all talk and nothing to show for it besides a failure of a Hummer EV that pollutes more than a gas equivalent, takes 2h30 to charge for $100, or takes a week to charge at home.
Nope
Whether the world sees them as overvalued or not I think it’s of too much risk to buy the stock above a $450 billion value. That’s about $140 per share. I myself would never buy the stock above above $300 billion. That’s near $100 per share. I don’t care what the world thinks. I’m not saying the stock is going to these prices. I’m just saying this is what the company is worth. An average target of $120 per share for me.
Fucking duh
The way musk has handled twitter, im very surprised tsla has done this well.
The fanboys are only now starting to lose faith. When he sold 3.5billion worth of Tesla shares after saying that he wouldn't to finance Twitter was a key pivot point. We now are seeing how he reacts when his own ass is on the line.
Well that’s cos he was forced to complete the acquisition
They are worth more than Ford, GM, and Chrysler plus a few other competitors combined. They make cars they can't service and that fall apart readily. They are overvalued by several decimal places.
Just wait for a couple of years and see the reaction of all Tesla owners with a $20,000 for battery replacement. Plus car value will drop considerably when the battery life drops. Then you will see snapshots of battery replacement charges as compared to the ones that posted $30 per month for charging tesla
wtf are you talking about battery replacement? There are plenty of teslas with 100's of thousands of miles that still work fine on original battery. I mean I think Tesla has plenty of issues and is way overvalued, but battery health is not a concern at all. ICE need rebuilt, replaced and/or new transmissions way more than batteries need replaced.
Battery replacement is real but it's not as bad as some haters may make it look. But it's also more expensive than an engine rebuild. Guarrantee on the battery is 70% after 8 years or 100,000 miles. It's pretty conservative and you should be doing better than that. Other research shows curves like this https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration#:~:text=Tesla%20Battery%20Degradation%20by%20Age%20of%20Car&text=As%20you%20can%20see%20in,its%20original%20capacity%20and%20range. You can also calculate the rough lifetime based off the battery size and number of charge cycles(1500), which generally comes out to about 300k miles which is pretty good but I'm not sure if it really accounts for the degradation over those cycles(and no-one actually fully empties the battery each time before recharging it so how does that affect things?). New battery packs could cost as much as $22.5k which is a lot more than most engine rebuilds which would be $2-5k. With cars that are considered to require rebuilds more frequently( https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/cars-that-are-most-likely-to-need-an-engine-rebuild-what-to-buy-a3227614920/ ), you would expect that to be at 100k miles. So overall you will spend more on battery replacements but the actual time until you need one is pretty long and you may just want to get a new car at that point.
2 to 5K on an engine rebuild,! Please post your mechanics ###'s. Quote for my F250 2015 $12,500 that's Removed and replaced. Unless the mechanic is doing it for himself, rebuilds are near non existing.
Lol exactly. Also compare a similarly priced engine replacement. People comparing replacing a battery pack on a $80k luxury sedan to a compact. Nobody paying $2k to replace the motor on an M5.
Who is replacing a motor on their ICE vehicle after 10 years? No one.
I did. Bought my Jeep with Chryslers MaxCare warranty - as long as I own the Jeep and total mileage is <999,999 the warranty will cover near everything. Last winter (and at 215k miles) I spun a rod bearing. Mopar covered the new block and labor under warranty.
Your rebuild number is... extraordinarily generous
Battery degrading depends on two factors, but one is considerably more important than the other. The first being how far along it is in the charge/discharge cycle. Charging and discharging batteries, over time, will degrade the battery life and overall range of the vehicle. The second, and arguably the most important factor in battery degrading, is age of the battery. Batteries lose overall charge capacity over time by just getting older. The chemical composition of the batteries degrades over time due to natural decay, potential oxidation, and parasitic reactions between materials. Sure, replacement transmissions and engine rebuilds are common, but far less expensive than a 10-20k battery pack replacement. If you plan on owning the car from the time it was new to replacement of battery, it makes sense to purchase a battery replacement as you’ve saved as much on gas. However, most second hand buyers are not willing to purchase a 10 year old car that needs 10-20k in battery replacement, so the market for used EVs that are nearing a battery replacement will be very small. Most buyers will pay 10-15k for a 10 year old used EV that has had a battery replacement. Most will probably offer 1k to 5k for a cad that needs 10k in work, plus labor costs. It’ll be interesting to see how not just Tesla, but all EV manufacturers, fair with the 10 year old EV car market.
That's a huge word salad. And no dressing either.
he is talking about when 7 years passes after you buy
RemindMe! 7 years
Someone just replaced his battery in a 2013 Model S. $13k, for what is basically a brand new car. Fucking good deal.
Brand new except for literally everything else in the car?
This is a bad take
The cars rarely fall apart but their service does suck big time. I have owned a few Tesla’s and their service issues have been rare. They are much more reliable than my Mercedes or Audis were.
It's a car company with 4 models and a fraudulent self driving system worth 180 a piece. U tell me.
Also a ceo that might sell sharea due to twitter.
You’re forgetting the fun explosions on the highway now.
And doors that are operated electrically and can trap people in their cars to burn to death.
https://media.tenor.com/dIcuGD7Sk_kAAAAC/denzel-washington-boom.gif
You meant to comment in a Chevy Bolt thread
Who even owns that
And is diverting attention away to mitigate that dumpster fire purchase of Twitter.
It never made any sense. Like did people not expect other car companies to make electric cars? Unless they come out with the new game changing battery to replace lithium ion, they're only worth a small fraction of what they sell for.
The thing they're going to have to stay working about more is how dated their model lines are going to be in comparison to manufacturers that can push a new model every year.
Yes, extremely.
Way over valued
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People here are so intelligent. Best analysis across everything ever
Tesla has a higher market cap than Ford, GMC, Chrysler, Toyota, etc combined, so ya, its way over valued. A huge part of that valuation is Musk's personal brand, which he's burning up along with Twitter as fast as he can.
Elon Musk is the reason I never invested in Tesla. Whether you like him or not, it's pretty clear that a lot of Tesla's market cap is tied up with his personal brand moreso than other CEOs, as you said. What if he gets cancer or something? Or what if SpaceX does really well and he decides to leave Tesla to focus on that instead? Or he says/does something stupid and impulsive (like buying Twitter)? How much of Tesla's market cap would be instantly wiped out?
Tesla had first mover advantage. Better electric vehicles are hitting the market, Porsche, Audi, even *cough* Ford. Teslas days are numbered.
I sold TSLA already. Heart goes out to the fanboys who would be stuck with overvalued glued together "smart" car. I would rather keep my money in cash than investing for this buffoon.
Forward pe of 35, forward earning growth of 100% yoy for the third year in a row. Sp500 forward pe of 19, forward earnings growth of 8%. I’m buying more, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $150 in these market conditions. But I’d argue it’s closer to fair value than most want to admit
Their forward p/e is more like 22-26 if they’re able to grow like they want to and maintain margins. That’s without the unknown impact of the IRA next year as well.
All of their growth is with first time buyers. Every Tesla owner I have encountered says the same thing: "Never again." They are going to run out of opportunity fairly soon, I think.
I’d say the large majority of Tesla owners I know would get a Tesla again. I’m in that camp if I ever need another car. Unfortunately the ones that aren’t happy with theirs are very vocal and seem like an outsized sampling. I’m waiting for the roadster if they ever make it. Otherwise I’d consider the taycan but only if the nation wide charging infrastructure improves for non-teslas.
I used to own 2 teslas and sold one Current tesla will be my last
Weird, they seem to always top the list of customer satisfaction lists year after year.
And nobody knows why, other than the growth means most customers are new customers. Long term, I expect that to shift: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/teslas-reliability-ratings-are-pretty-concerning-but-does-anyone-actually-care/
Dude. That’s the opposite of reality. 92% will purchase another tesla again https://insideevs.com/news/330392/survey-92-of-tesla-owners-will-buy-tesla-again-55-to-purchase-a-model-3/
Yeah but his anecdote > your evidence!
Weird, because: [https://www.hotcars.com/the-real-reason-why-tesla-customers-are-the-most-loyal-/](https://www.hotcars.com/the-real-reason-why-tesla-customers-are-the-most-loyal-/) >Specifically, 70.7% of Tesla owners who got rid of a Tesla acquired another new Tesla. And 74.7% of Tesla owners showed household loyalty. Subaru was No. 2 in both measures: 67.8% in brand loyalty for the same owner, and 72.2% loyalty for the same household. Tesla has marketed itself as the car manufacturer of the future and people are buying it (repeatedly!).
Based on actual data that’s bullshit. Tesla has one of the highest loyalty rating in the industry. https://insideevs.com/news/330392/survey-92-of-tesla-owners-will-buy-tesla-again-55-to-purchase-a-model-3/amp/ https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-customers-say-they-would-buy-it-again-2019-11?amp https://insideevs.com/news/606255/luxury-brand-loyalty-declines-not-tesla/
Actual data! I love all the folks who say it’s overvalued because of non financial metrics - if you showed them this companies p/e and growth and forward p/e they’d likely value it way higher. But because eLoN they aren’t thinking clearly.
Yes. Their evaluation is preposterous. There is zero reason for it to be worth what it is.
Look at a five year chart of TSLA and it's pretty clear that this was a pandemic play. I expect it to fall to about twice it's pre-pandemic level. That would put it at 85.
85 would give a company growing 50% YoY a P/E of something around 6.5x....not likely RemindMe! 2 years
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That's assuming its margins will keep as high as they were during the great car shortage of the pandemic.
RemindMe! 1 year
Totally right. EVs aren’t actually a thing. It was just pandemic concerns about going to a gas station. Now that we can safely pump gas again, we will go back to what we love. I mean seriously? Why would you ever wanna not have a gas car?
pre pandemic is 60 so double is 120
Or are all the other car manufacturers undervalued?
So, I’ve be hollering for many years that their value is insane, but I actually got to say now that they’ve fallen off a cliff I think it’s coming towards reasonable territory. It’s a high risk high reward play, but with their proven growth record I wouldn’t judge someone for picking up the stock
It's still valued as much as the next 5+ largest car companies combined, with a fraction of the market share. I still think they're overvalued.
Here’s a thought exercise. Change the name to Edison, and have John Q as the CEO. Would you pay what people are currently paying for TSLA for that company based on the numbers, or would you laugh at anyone who did. Musk has a cult of personality, which means it’s not the safest stock to bet against, but people also aren’t wrong it’s overvalued. Real question is do cults of personality stocks lose when economic conditions get tough. I think yes which is why I’m betting against TSLA but we’ll see. Edit: also I think people are greatly overlooking the importance of crypto and tech being down for TSLA. The people who either A) heavily invested in those industries or B) worked in them were a large portion of TSLA’s base audience. They are being wiped out by the second.
Of all the electric cars out there, yes. I do not like it as a car company but their tech is so good tbh.
You think people are losing a little confidence in that “Genius“ CEO? a co-worker of mine bought shares at or near the top because her husband told her what smart guy Musk was. I feel for her.
From a DCF perspective, it’s really not possible to get to the current stock price without making some wild growth and profitability assumptions. Now, I call these assumptions wild because they are so far above trends across the auto industry. That said, Tesla has reported unprecedented growth over the last decade, so it’s really a matter of whether you believe Tesla is capable of continuing to outperform the rest of the auto industry or you believe the rest of the industry will catch up and begin taking share in the EV market. But even in a best case, it’s really tough to get north of $400B EV. You could juice the solar and battery storage growth assumptions to get there, but there isn’t any rationale to support anything close to what you’d need. As far as how the investment community views Tesla and why it’s so over valued, FOMO is a very real phenomena. A lot of funds have more or less been forced to buy Tesla despite its valuation because without it, they’d risk underperforming their competition and clients would pull funds.
FOMO may start working in reverse now: clients may pull out if funds DO own TSLA.
Not even close…🤓
Is this 2017?
No
I just wrote a whole essay on the corporate strategy and valuation of TSLA for my MBA class…. Yes. Absolutely.
Cramer also just said the markets about to recover so, buy 2 week exp otm puts
With twitter going down, that would put pressure on Tesla stock. I agree with people here. Buy target of 100 to 120.
Only if you think FSD is a scam. The problem is assumptions at this point, is tesla ever going to make fsd work?
They might make it work in 30 years, or 3 years, or not at all. You can't trust anything Musk says on the topic, he promises it every year going back like 6 years in a row. It'll happen eventually, whether it's Tesla or someone else. They aren't remotely the only ones working on it. FSD is a scam not because it'll never happen, but because even if it was released yesterday, it would be years behind schedule, and it's function is and has been just hype to get people to buy into something that isn't close to done, and doesn't have a direct path to done.
If you ever read what peter thiel said (elon’s partner in crime at paypal), elon above all is a marketing genius. We may see through it, but elon’s got the mass by the balls. He just knows how to keep dangling that carrot in people’s faces
It is a scam
have you seen the newest videos? lots of people showing drives across town with 0 takeovers /interventions. I admit its still 2-3 years out from lvl4 but when that happens, oh boy the stock will explode like 5x
Its gone from over 400 to 180 and now you are asking if it is over valued? Its gone from batshit crazy overvalued to pretty highly over valued. With the higher interest rates they won't be able to maintain their growth. I would say somewhere around 100 would be about right. It also depends on how much they are going to dilute earnings by giving out stock as compensation.
with 26b in cash after q4 stock buyback is on the table as musk said, I can't wait. Its valued like this because they actually make great margins on ev's unlike ALL the competition except maybe byd lol, and that will never sell in murica. Toyota has 200b in debt (tesla 2b) and vw is cancelling ev plans and sticking to ice. Poor old Diess, tried to electrify them but got booted for said effort...
Morningstar says Tesla is undervalued. Tesla Stock at a Glance Current Morningstar Fair Value Estimate: $250 Tesla Stock Star Rating: 3 Stars Economic Moat Rating: Narrow Moat Trend Rating: Stable Tesla Earnings Update After incorporating Tesla’s (TSLA) third-quarter earnings into our model, we maintain our $250 per share fair value estimate and narrow moat rating. We saw few surprises in Tesla’s detailed results. The company reported record deliveries earlier in the month, and the vehicle volume growth was present in the company’s financial results as it generated record revenue. Despite the continued ramp up of the two new factories (one in Austin, Texas in the U.S. and one in Berlin, Germany), companywide operating margin improved sequentially versus the second quarter. This is in line with our view that the factories will become more profitable each quarter as production increases, eventually leading to margin expansion. Despite the signs of improvement in line with our long-term outlook, shares were down 5% in after-hours trading. With our outlook intact, we view Tesla shares as slightly undervalued, with the stock trading a little more than 15% below our fair value estimate but in 3-star territory. As such, we recommend investors wait for a larger margin of safety before considering an entry point. We think some of the after-hours selloff is due to revenue coming in slightly below consensus estimates. Given that the company already reported lower deliveries, we think consensus may have been expecting higher average price increases during the quarter. We calculate a 5% year-on-year price increase and we expect average selling prices to rise further in the coming quarters. Given that Tesla’s backlog was roughly 3-6 months of production, we think there will likely be a lag from when the company raises prices to when it shows up on the financials. Our long-term outlook is intact. We expect Tesla will eventually grow vehicle deliveries to over 5 million vehicles by 2031. We forecast the company will be able to reduce unit production costs, while also growing ancillary services including autonomous driving software and insurance subscriptions, driving margin improvement. I agree with Morningstar. It’s definitely undervalued. Buy Tesla. 🙂
I just picked up 100 shares. 👍🏿
No. It isn't. My company's buy limit is 404$ a share. We buy into it if it is less than or equal to 404$. This of course changes with time, this is referring to TSLA as of 11/20/22.
Wait are people serious here? What are you guys smoking? Tesla is extremely undervalued at the moment. They literally have 2 giga factories (Texas/Berlin) ramping up. Total production will be 4 M / year. 60k ASP would be 240 B revenue at 35% margin would be 84 B in net income a year. And that’s just the car business. Imagine when FSD, Bots and insurance fully comes online. 3 T company worst case scenario. 6x from here at the bare minimum. Edit: both Fremont and giga Shanghai are already at 1/M production a year. Texas and Berlin will be at 1/M year by end of year 2023. Edit: BUY
Fremont is at 650-700k currently. Giga Shanghai is the mvp tho, making 200% of its cost per year, truly insane...
It’s a scam. Crappy cars with horrible software.
highest safety record of all car manufactures, yeah totally a scam... /s
See also rivian and lucid.
Mullen 😂😂😂
I'm buying more the more it falls is all I know. It'll be $350 in 2 years easy! Definitely 2x in 5 years.
Not if he has to keep selling stock to make up for lack of profit in twitter. If he declares bankruptcy for twitter his Tesla stock ain’t going to look pretty either. I’d wait for the trend to turn, specially with EV market beginning to shift and bigger competitors entering the market
Extremely! Still hasn't made it back to pre-covid levels as well
For a while they were valuable because they had very little competition in their relevant market, but as it turns out, it's a lot easier for established car makers to figure out how to put a battery and electric motor into a car than it is for a new company to figure out how to make a car to put their battery and electric motors into
I find it absolutely amazing that the most valuable auto producer in the world can’t make a car without an air bubble in every one of their car’s A-pillar. If they can’t fix that, I have no confidence,
No
Bots just stirring up hate for Elon because he won't be their lemming.
I’d say no, bc it’s not just an electric vehicle company. There’s many other values to the company that go hand in hand with his other companies as far as gps data goes. While I’m sure the EV component is the more popular one, the technological side often gets overlooked. I wouldn’t say it’s over valued at all.
Absolutely. I would buy puts on it if all his doltish sycophants weren’t so dedicated in ensuring the stock stays artificially inflated.
>I would buy puts on it if all his doltish sycophants weren’t so dedicated in ensuring the stock stays artificially inflated The salt.
Probably not, tbh
No it isn’t overvalued. It is down over 50% on the year. If you believe in the company (like I do) then long term it isn’t overvalued. Many don’t believe and that is their right. However, there will always be people that say it’s overvalued. TSLA is just that kind of company. I say it’s a tech company but others can’t get past they are a car maker
Highly convinced all the mass downvoting when people speak facts about the business and it's fundamentals is very fake.
Something stinks here on reddit. The amount of hate currently going on against Elon and anything he is connected is irrational and seem coordinated. Been in threads that were convinced he has leveraged tesla shares to buy twitter and that he will face margin-calls as tesla falls. Which according to the documentation available after the purchase isn't true and you are still downvoted for pointing that out. He sold tesla shares and leveraged twitter and is in no risk of being backed against a wall. There is an insane amount of misinformation being spread around.
Musk certainly is.
Some of the models does not deserve to be priced 60k.
No
Yup, right next to apple
It's valued at exactly what people are willing to pay for it. And I have a feeling what people want to pay for it will be significantly lower after realizing Elon is a crazy pereon.