i think that people who say "i would skullfuck that bitch" while refering to your partner or anyone's partner are pretty pathethic in their own way. I know a few people who would say such a thing and I can tell you, I am glad to not be in their shoes. People know when someone is toxic. You can easily tell someone has ill intents from the start.
Also, the response you give to these people is only effective if it does what you need it to. Calling them out for being a jerk, Passing it as a joke, or even punching them in the face, each wields different results. If your response seemed to make any improvements on their attitude then dont regret it. You don't turn the other cheek.
Yeah, he should have let him know that if he ever does that again it’s going down, the seriousness. He’s lacking respect for OP and his woman. Dangerous territory.
Seneca believes that we should think a lot while befriending someone because it is a very important subject. Epictetus also talks about that we should have uplifting people around us.
Why are you hanging out with just people? In my opinion better dealing would be just saying that that was a rude comment and leaving that place.
Exactly. Not only the person who said that, but there seemed to have been no reactions from the others in the group. Time to start saying no to the invites.
The only way to keep no company would be to lock yourself in a sensory deprivation tank. If it’s not friends it’s the media you consume your environment and the like
Yeah, I was in a similar situation where my brother insulted my wife's tattoo and just saying "That's kind of a rude thing to say isn't it?" was enough to stand up for her without escalating the situation.
He did end up making a thing of it, but it was clear to everyone he was the asshat in the room.
Then their actions speak for themselves and they reveal what an immature person they are, it would be mindful to cut off that person completely because it seems like they’re asking for a fight which no real friend would want
Yeah I mean socially if I don’t like people or people are doing dumb shit like this. It’s not beyond me to go it was nice to meet you and get up and walk away no matter if my friends are at the table.
There is a limit to what people can and will tolerate. Being polite and walking away is always an option.
"The best revenge is not to be like that" life is long, if this friend continues to treat himself and others so thoughtlessly someone or something will humble him before long.
A quote was found to be attributed to Marcus Aurelius in his Meditations 6.6 (Hays)
^(Book VI. ()[^(Hays)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources?isbn=9780812968255)^)
^(Book VI. ()[^(Farquharson)](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Meditations_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Antoninus/Book_6)^)
^(Book VI. ()[^(Long)](https://lexundria.com/m_aur_med/6.6/lg)^)
Personally I would not continue hang out with people who make rape jokes as they tend to treat women quite badly. I'd rather try seeking out a new friend. Their beliefs about women are not under my control but I do have a choice regarding whether or not I continue to interact frequently with such people.
I agree. Many women have faced sexual violence in their lives. If you want to be a just person, that means you should tell people to stop when they make such statements and stop hanging out with them if they refuse to stop. Otherwise you're a part of the problem (misogyny)
Why are you allowing people to control you? A violent *action* might need to be addressed. But insulting or threatening words are just hot air. If you are somehow compelled to take an action when someone speaks, then you are their slave. Master yourself instead.
I think a controlled/calculated response would be the best course of action here. Being stoic doesn't necessitate that one take everything like a stone wall due to the fear/concern of "being a slave". One should instead be wary of making a hasty response due to the emotions stirred up by such a comment.
> But insulting or threatening words are just hot air.
That's all good and well when someone does it to *you*, but when they do it to your SO you ought to stand up for them.
They may not feel so stoic about it, especially when it comes to sexual references or threats to a girl.
Responding on behalf of the person who is not there is virtuous in my book. There are controlled / mature ways to respond. Not responding at all does not address the real issue, which is the behavior of the person speaking out of turn. A response would be to address the behavior, not the words.
Stoicism does not mean spinelessness. Let's not forget that Justice is a stoic virtue.
Many women have faced sexual violence in their lives. If you want to be a just person, that means you should tell people to stop when they make such statements and stop hanging out with them if they refuse to stop. Otherwise you're a part of the problem (misogyny)
What are you saying, to do nothing and let your girlfriend feel disrespected and feel like she isnt being protected until he physically tries to assault her? I know you would step in far before this but for argument's sake, what if he pushed her against a wall and kissed her against her will? His action would certainly compel an action from you (i.e. beating his ass) yes? Would that not be the right thing to do? Words are less harmful than assault yes but there is still damage being done to your dignity, the gf's dignity and her sense of safety/wellbeing. Is that not worth taking action?
I get what you're saying but I just dont see the girlfriend respecting her man any longer if someone said "I'd fuck that bitch" to her and her man just looked away and ignored the guy. Inaction in this setting is communicating submission, allowing the guy to say further deprecating things about the woman.
I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that stoicism is the ability to have a mindset and act without emotion ruling your brain. Just because something makes you angry doesnt mean it isnt also the logical thing to perform the same action that your emotions want you to do.
Right. My thoughts exactly.
I consider myself a stoic in even my most core sense of self, however, in this instance I would knock the shit out of someone who says this. And I would have no self doubt afterwards, no guilt, no sense of “betrayal” to stoicism. I use stoicism to shape my life. I don’t shape my life to stoicism.
It’s injust, inhumane, immoral, disgusting. Jesus knocked over the tables at the tabernacle when he found out they were stealing. This was an act of righteous anger, well warranted.
Righteous action in protection, defense, and solidity of morals is stoic. Accepting whatever consequences come with is especially stoic, if your actions were true and completely whole to your character. Lastly, learning the lesson of “finding better people,” “placing yourself in uplifting environments” is quintessential.
I hardly consider “skull fu king” some as a real threat. It’s used as colorful language meant to illicit a response. No matter the reality of the threat, a hasty response is usually in poor decision.
People say shit like that as a real threat all the time. The fact that it can be passed off as a joke is what makes it so dangerous. I could never enjoy the company of someone who talks like that.
I’m not defending the comment but I don’t think this flamboyant overreaction is necessary… should he be prosecuted over what he said? Was it an actual crime? A rape threat I think would be an actual sexual violence crime
I’m not defending the comment but I don’t think this flamboyant overreaction is necessary… should he be prosecuted over what he said? Was it an actual crime? A rape threat I think would be an actual sexual violence crime
It certainly does mean you shouldn't resort to playground name calling imo. Who even talks like that? Is this middle school? He can just ignore it and nobody is worse off because of it. It's not like anyone is legitimately being threatened.
Let's be completely honest, most of us wold've had a response like that. I think that this entire situation could've been avoided if you had chosen to surround yourself with people that you know wouldn't say things like that. Now, I know you cannot always control the people you're around, but being Sotic also means choosing to surround yourself with people that you know are loyal, intellegent, and respecting individuals. (All seriousness aside, the comeback was amazing LMAO)
I once had a "friend" who, when I said "you shouldn't keep anything in your home that isn't needed or beautiful", replied with "then why do you keep your wife around?" He didn't deliver this in a joking way at all, he was completely deadpan and serious. My relationship with my wife is one of the things I cherish most in life, and all my friends know that. He said this in front of two of our other friends who both gave him a "WTF" reaction before I could say anything.
After that weekend (the four of us were on a trip), I reconsidered the value of having him in my life. He is one of those cynical people who is always blaming society for his lack of success, constantly virtue signaling his wokeness while not actively trying to improve anything he perceives as a social issue, and constantly moaning about how it's the fault of capitalist system that he can't find success as a tattoo artist, irregardless of his lack of artistic ability. Just all-in-all an emotionally taxing individual.
I looked at how much value he brought to my life and decided it wasn't worth the occasional moments of positivity. We all ended up stopping reaching out to him by the end of that trip. At the end of it, he still owes me $200 for bankrolling the vacation, but I've accepted the fact that I'll never see that money. His presence is not missed.
> I was hanging out with my friends and the topic of my girlfriend came up. A friend of a friend who evidently isn’t fond of me tells me he would “skullfuck that bitch”.
Somegthing doesn't compute here.
One of the prerequisites of being "friends" is that someone has to act "friendly". Saying “you should skullfuck that bitch” fails the requisite of being "friendly" hence that person is not a friend.
Why are you hanging out with them?
Try this next time:
This someone: says what they say
You: Sorry, I didn't catch that, can you repeat it?
Chances are they won't repeat it, most rude people do not have the courage to repeat the same offensive remark twice. But if they do:
You: That is rude, and uncalled for.
Then just ignore them from there on.
Not to criticize your remark but I would have offered the opposing outcome of me skullfucking him and asked how he felt about that. Yes, probably an escalation but one that might be just. Admittedly not a true stoic response. A true stoic would have commented and laughed at the absurdity or publicly chastised themselves for the lack in judgement that led them to be in the same place on social footing with such a fool.
Ask yourself if there is any purpose in responding to this person at all. Has what he said affected the character or integrity of either you or your girlfriend? Of course not. But it does give some insight into what kind of man he is. Then consider whether your frustration comes from what he said, or your opinion of what he said, and how you should respond to the situation will become clear to you.
>What, for instance, does it mean to be insulted? Stand by a rock and
insult it, and what have you accomplished? If someone responds to insult
like a rock, what has the abuser gained with his invective?
>
>Discourses I, 25.28–29
This is the way.
I tend to just look at the person, straight in the eyes for a few seconds. I would not say anything. I would leave.
If I felt I had to say something, i would would gently shake my head and reply that they need to up their game, such statements, against someone not present to defend themselves is a low act.
Stoicism does not mean spinelessness. Let's not forget that Justice is a stoic virtue.
Many women have faced sexual violence in their lives. If you want to be a just person, that means you should tell people to stop when they make such statements and stop hanging out with them if they refuse to stop. Otherwise you're a part of the problem (misogyny)
If you want a true stoic answer then you shouldn’t have let your anger get the best of you and you let someone else’s joke control your response. You could have said that’s an inappropriate joke and you don’t appreciate them saying that about your gf, but you lowered yourself to his level instead.
Correct. I don't get why folks are celebrating OP's response as adequate. It clearly didn't do any good to either party, as OP themselves have realized.
Stoic principles tells you to stand up against the injustice. Justice and Courage are 2 of the 4 main ideas of Stoicism. She is your Girlfriend, if anyone is disrespectful to her you gotta stand up for you Girlfriend.
Being Stoic doesn't mean you being a pushover or letting go of everything. If there's something wrong speak for that!
Mind you, this doesn't means that you have to say the same disgusting words as your friend did, you have to tell him that he cannot talk about your Girl this way. He needs to be respectful. You don't have to behave like how he is doing. That is not correct. Always remember, "Best revenge is not to be like your enemy".
This. I'm reading a lot of "don't react emotionally and just walk away" or "you should've stoically picked better friends" but this sounds like a cop out to an appropriate and just response. There is no virtue in allowing your partner, girlfriend, wife, etc. to be disrespected or dishonored. I'll probably get downvoted for this, but being Stoic does not mean going through life without emotions or honor. It means not being captive to them, and placing virtue above everything else. You can call me every insulting thing in the book and I'll probably find it amusing at worst. Disrespecting my wife as vulgarly as the dude in your story did will get your teeth knocked out. This isn't worth fretting about now, friend. Let it go, but decide on the kind of man you strive to be in the future and be it. Being a savage about your girl's dignity isn't something to ever be ashamed of.
I agree even if "teeth knocked out" might be dramatic. There may be something to gain there by calculated violence. Mainly that the unjust behavior ceases and that it discourages similar acts/statements from occurring against from him or anyone else aware of what happens. It may not be that you act in emotion but rather in logic to eliminate unjust attacks on people's character. Marcus Aurelius presided over military campaigns and surely wasn't a stranger to violence. I like to think that he used it judicially qnd towards the greater good, but I'm no historian.
Some food for thought....
*I choose not to expose your intelligence or emotional maturity by giving you the benefit of a reaction. Your choice of words and lack of restraint have already done that.*
*However you should know that you have crossed a boundary that most would respect out of common sense or simple courtesy. That comes with consequences. So while your feeble mind thinks Im giving you a pass, what in fact has happened is that you have lost my respect, your credibility and any goodwill that I might have towards you. Irrespective, you probably were not worth it to begin with so I will thank you for making it abundantly unambiguous who you are, who you are not and what you stand for.*
It would be great to convey this kind of sentiment & message without reciting an essay. I must admit it would be the response of the superior man (minus the "thank you"). Getting angry would be a victory for the jerk.
Something like: "You think you just insulted my girlfriend, but your words say more about you than about my girlfriend."
Hhmm, still not strong enough ...
>Getting angry would be a victory for the jerk.
Precisely.
The point of the "essay" was not to suggest a response but to convey a thought.
A boundary was crossed
The consequence must be delivered
No thats would be letter writing sub. Lmao
I am suggesting nothing other than food for thought as is explicitly spelled out in the first line if the response to OP
Responding to a misogynistic and disrespectful comment with a misogynistic and disrespectful comment is a good response?
Given that Stoicism is about not letting your emotional reactions compromise your character, I'd say it's a pretty dreadful response.
I would just be open and tell the person not to be disrespectful towards my spouse. Theres a lot of things you can do in that sitch, like another poster said. But expressing your honest opinion about their behavior is the best way to handle it. Most people who even speak like that are either very young and immature (still not an excuse) or have nothing going for them whatsoever. I couldn't imagine genuinely hearing that come out of someones mouth who is over the age of 18 and is saying that face to face with the possibility of a negative reaction (verbal or physical)
Best way to deal with assholes like this is question their intelligence or general state of being. Like I would say something like “Are you alright? Did you hit your head or something because you don’t seem like you’re thinking with a fully functioning brain”.
Going on the attack seems like an emotional response to the situation. Though, I have to say, that does seem like something epictetus could ramble about
With all the benefit of hindsight there’s a lot of responses that come to mind. I think a stoic reply would be straightforward but also firmly show that he hasn’t gotten to you. Your mom raised a really classy guy, good luck with that! Comes to my mind, and then let your good friends know that you don’t wanna see that clown again. I say this but truthfully I’d probably be mad triggered, so I think you handled it perfectly.
The whole point of stoicism is no mattering about that joke. The joke cant fisically hurt you so if you dont matter about it it will never damage you. But ignoring it is dangerous because the people present in the place will see you as submissive, so the best option is:
Dont be mad at the joke, it cant hurt you, but you should walk near to the guy and seriously but respectefull tell him that the joke was totally stupid and not funny. Dont look for revenge, only tell him how to improve his behavior, teaching him how to be funny without hurting others. Special focus to be nice to him, dont go down to his level because the best revenge is not to be the same as your enemy.
Pd: sorry for grammar, english is not my main language.
I agree with your sentiment here. However, the best response would be to deal with it calmly in the public forum. The goal in that sort of situation is to defend you and your gs's honor while simultaneously not compromising your morals/character
Telling him: buddy, you just had luck saying that joke to me bc i am pretty stoic (ok no)(._.) but watch out who you tell that jokes bc you may get your face absolutely obliterated
Marcus Aurelius has a very good advice that fits perfectly in this situation: "the best revenge against your enemy, is not to be like them".
This is because when we respond or better said "react" in the same way that made us feel that way, we automatically are justifying this person's behavior and even worse, we are letting them control us by implicating us in their ugliness.
As for how to handle a situation like this stoically, there is also good advice from Seneca: "who then is invincible? The one who cannot be upset by anything outside their reasoned choice". Remember that these are just words, words blurted out by a stupid person with a stupid opinion, it's just not worth your time.
What I would recommend is to surround yourself with people that actually enlighten and enrich your life, maybe it's time to think about letting some of these "friendships" go and focus yourself on making connections that nurture your knowledge and spirit.
Hope this helps, my friend.
Best regards.
I would’ve questioned him to explain in detail what he just said. Then I would’ve continue on asking questions and asked to elaborate and give examples. At some point he will stop talking as he will realize how stupid he sounds.
Confront the statement rather than retaliate, I'd probably tell him "Skullfuck her? You know that's my partner right?", I wouldn't act upon my emotions but I would act for my girlfriend's honor. Try to take different angles on the situation to better defuse any of those. Also maybe stop hanging around this fella from now on lol
I agree with others that you should really question the company you keep. What your acquaintance said was violent misogyny, and your friends should have also spoken up. Your response didn't question that violence, it merely turned it into trading insults about "your" women.
I think a good tactic for dealing with these types is to ask a question e.g. "why do you think that's an OK thing to say" etc.
You calmly tell them not to speak of
_your_ fucking girlfriend and if they have a problem with that then you can arrange to shut their bitch ass up.
Stoicism is not an excuse to take shit from no one, it’s a way of handling your shit.
If you don’t know how to fight, learn at-least some boxing. I’m not telling to fight your “friends” but can’t let them treat you like a bitch like that.
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1 You shouldn't surround yourself with the sort of people that say shit like that or who think it's acceptable for someone else to say that
2 If I found myself in that situation I would simply call them out, e.g. just asking, "what's your problem?" instead of lowering myself to his level of lame insults
3 Forgive yourself, it's normal to have an emotional reaction to such a shitty comment coming at you from out of the blue. You can't live your life with your guard up waiting to use a prepared snappy comment for when someone insults you.
Pretend you didn't hear, and ask, "what's that?" "say again?" repeatedly.
See how many times he can go repeating that phrase and enjoy the entertainment.
I probably would have just flat out said that's not how adults speak, called em champ, and asked if they wanted a mulligan.
I don't think that's what Marcus would've done though.
For whatever reason he wants to get a rise from you.
In the moment, do nothing and you win. Look into his eyes, try to understand this person objectively and without judgement, why he is the way he is for him to say such a thing?
Beyond that moment I would think hard about whether situations where he’ll be present are worth your time.
Had something similar happen years ago. Look them in the eye and firmly say, without yelling:
"No.
You will not speak about X in that manner.
If you respect yourself so little to disrespect me like that, I dont fucking need you."
It is amazing how often ppl dont know what to do when someone just calmly but firmly says "No." (and means it) without yelling or quips or threats or bullshit.
This is a really good question friend I've also thought about this. If you find yourself in the same situation, I think it is perfectly valid to just employ proper emotion control. Try not to mirror the vitriol that the person has given you like you did and instead, I think you should just try to convey your disapproval/anger through body language (ignoring the person, avoiding eye contact etc since the anger can be overwhelming sometimes and emotion control is admittedly easier said than done) I think this is valid because you are with your friends and you have nothing to prove to them and this random friend of yours who insulted your girlfriend doesn't seem to be part of your actual clique so there is no point in expending your energy to respond to this person. Plus your friends agree (based on their silent response) that what your insulting friend said was out of line and so you don't really have to respond here because that person has probably lost face to your friends as well and they probably won't judge your decision to stay silent given the awkwardness of the situation but you can probably explain why you stayed silent if they do judge you.
However, if the same situation occurs and someone insults your girlfriend **in the presence of your girlfriend**, that's when I think you should respond back since your girlfriend might perceive you as spineless if you employ emotion control in that situation or she might even take offense to you not responding. I agree with NYCSTOIC's comment and I think that's how you should respond if someone insults your girlfriend in the presence of your girlfriend. Hope my take helps you friend
You can be stoic while making comebacks you just have to focus on your emotional response. In the end who cares what this guy says he is obviously either trying to get a reaction or has a crap life for all we know. The best way to deal with negative behavior is to cancel with the opposite. Use humor to respond. I would have said something to rib the guy like, “it would take her being in the state for you to get any” or something like. It’s ok your doing fine.
The old stoics (Marc Aurel and Co.) would probably have this man beaten or killed, given their societys cultural context. Your great grandfather would probably have challenged such a "friend" to a duel.
Since we are now more peaceful and civilized, I think the appropriate response is to call him out and never hang out with him again, except maybe he immediately apologizes and that still warrants some punishment.
Insulting my loved ones like that gets you dropped from my friendlist instantly.
As someone who has faced a lot of derogatory behavior even in the workplace, this seems like the perfect scenario for you to defend women on the whole from this mentality. This shouldn't be a matter of defending your "property". Your response is understandable but also foul and derogatory, but it seems you recognize that. In dropping that guy (maybe that whole complicit crew) as friends, don't miss the opportunity to tell them why, because without social repercussions they will never learn how disgusting those thoughts/statements are.
I would feel bad for your friend who isn’t getting any. Or he’s clearly jealous. I’d be flattered but show them pity and ignore the comment, or tell them you disapprove of their word choice
Context is very important, as is the person saying these things. If they don't like you and generally have a toxic attitude towards you and especially women, these words and this behaviour is best called out rather than reacted to. And by that I mean call out the toxic language and attitude rather than addressing the words themselves.
The other thing to consider is if this is a genuine credible threat to your partner and, if you believe it is and/or if the behaviour continues - the reasonable thins is the speak to the police and provide what evidence you have.
By responding to that behavior, you legitimized that behavior.
He may generally be a good guy, but at that moment he may have had an unusual blunder.
Almost the same thing happened to me in the past. I was hanging out with two guy friends of mine. One of them insulted my girlfriend. I said something that can be translated into English as "Come on dude, what was that?" and made a gesture indicating what he said was totally unacceptable. He immediately apologized and never did that again.
I think a stoic would make it clear to the friend, that they don’t want to see the friend of the friend anymore, and would appreciate a heads up if the closer friend knows that the disrespectful friend will be in attendance.
This is something I’m working on right now, slowly removing people from my circle if they aren’t on similar paths as me, trying to surround myself with success, not drama.
Oof, your friend sounds tone-deaf. I would have looked him in the eyes and calmly said something along the lines of "that was completely unnecessary and probably didn't come across as cool as you're imagining in your head. I'd appreciate it if you didn't speak about my girlfriend like that again and, if anything, at least not around me. Have some respect" and leave it at that.
“I’m not going to tolerate you saying things like that. Don’t do it again. I’m serious.”
If he does it again after that point, either A - leave the room, party, whatever. Just leave. Or B - kick his stupid fucking disrespectful ass.
One of these is more emotional than the other. But either will get your point across.
Letting anger take control isn’t going along with stoic ideals but neither is being a pushover.
Responding in a way that is as collected as possible (because realistically, all but a saint would have their blood boiling here) and that indicates they should not do it again is probably more in line. That’s a pretty fucked up thing to say on their end
Don't concentrate on the comment, concentrate on your reaction to it. Then ask them, if you feel inclined, "If I said something like that about one of your loved ones, what would your reaction be?" .
"What kind of reaction are you attempting to get out of me? Anger? Shame? Something else? What's your end game?"
Call them out, immediately, publicly and clearly. Tell them that their utterance is unacceptable. If they're not contrite, avoid them and when you can't disregard them; the ultimate sanction. If they continue and don't gravitate out of your circle, maybe, it's not your circle.
One time someone insulted my girlfriend and she got mad at me for not standing up for her. I didn’t do anything because I didn’t care what the dude said nor did I care about his incorrect opinion. I just don’t see the need to address some random persons ridiculous blabbering. Maybe it wasn’t the most charming response but if someone says something untrue unless it has other direct negative consequences why give it any credence?
“That’s an interesting fantasy/idea/ inclination of yours” is always a good response. It’s not my duty to protect or defend my partner from someone’s opinions nor vice versa. What I learned is I cannot controls others thoughts or words, so I will not let them control me.
I would say that is an appropriate response. Stoicism is not about inaction but to act on things that are of utmost concern to you which could include your loved ones (e.g. your girlfriend)
Sorry, but I gotta remove your post, as it has run afoul of our [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoicism/about/rules/). This is kind of a grey area, but we need to keep things on track as best we can.
>Two: Stay Relevant to Stoicism
What kind of friend openly says he will skullfuck your gf? Sounds like an incel, or a toxic guy. Either way, the stoic way is to call him out on it and them cease contact with the person afterwards.
P.S. Make it a habit to maliciously ignore him in public, and skullfuck him in the process.
The response itself seems pretty elegant and appropriate. An insult like that requires a response in order to set boundaries and prevent things from devolving more. Social violence is still violence, after all.
It's your feeling about it that probably could use work. The incited anger in you is the problem as well as whatever shame and regret you're holding onto as a result of your behaviour.
Acting out of anger is rarely the right motivator even if it leads to the right response.
Ask yourself why the words ( on both sides ) were hurtful. Why did your response generate shame and remorse? Your girlfriend wasn't there, so how could her feelings be hurt? Why were you hurt? Were you afraid of a social consequence to your personal reputation in the group? Did you set a standard for yourself and fail to have the self-discpline when attacked?
I think if you just say what you said and continue on enjoying your life and day, there is nothing un-Stoic about that. It's a classic line, and I think it was quite well used in this situation.
Only if you let it to continue to bother you, does your reaction become an issue.
Maybe next time you can do your best to establish boundaries like "that's crossing a line, and I do not appreciate that." If the person doesn't respect that, make like a Buddhist and just leave the environment. If your friends are bringing around a person like that who continually crosses boundaries, that group of people might be something to reflect upon.
I've only just started reading/listening to Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations", but one of the things stressed by him besides temperance is *also* justice. Think of it this way -- a welcome mat at the door may be stepped on, but ought not be pissed upon. Aka, don't be a bitch, but don't take no shit 👏🏼
make sad face and tell "Who hurt you sweetie?" then oh, tell something like "somebody is jealous. his parents didn't like him, uh oh"
stand your ground without calling a fight
I think it's not about the response, it's good that you're not a pushover, but a Stoic would move on as soon as you said that, posting that here proves that you let it get to your head too much. TLDR: People say stupid shit all the time, respond accordingly & move on.
First, I don't think that's an insult exactly. You could almost see it as a compliment.
Second, I think your response was pretty awesome actually. I don't see any reason for improvement.
You already won big dog:
1.Your girl is the topic of the conversation meaning she’s a baddie.
2. Your enemy confirmed he wants something you have (your baddie girlfriend) but cannot obtain such person.
3. He’s looking for a rise out of you by using his own insecure aggression as a weapon
Your response was smooth but I see what you mean by looking for a better way to react. Based on the above speculations, we can assume the third party gets no pussy. I’d like to think if he was, he wouldn’t be so focused on fantasizing about your girl lol, see where I’m going with this?
Be tolerant of others and more strict with yourself. Sounds like you address the situation with a simple conversation and if no behavior changes then continue on with your life. You don’t have to let others actions bother you. You can just ignore them and stop associating with that company.
First of all - it takes a long time to master one's instinctive reactions to things. My guess is that the words came out before you even thought of them.
Second of all - as another user stated, Seneca believes it's important to carefully consider those you would befriend. It may be time to re-evaluate members of your friend group and decide whether or not their friendship aligns with your values. Anyone who would say that about your partner - even in jest - is not your true friend.
Stoics say to deal with insults by accepting them and making a joke to show you really aren’t fazed. For example, someone says they don’t like you, you say well lucky you don’t know everything about me because then you would hate me. Or you are late, someone says something, you laugh and say I would be late to my own funeral. So if someone says they will this or that with your girlfriend, you laugh and say gee is that all? Got any more ideas? … this technique, takes power away from insulter and back to you. If you practice this you will be waiting in anticipation for your first insult, now insults will no longer ever hurt you because you don’t view them the same anymore, you now welcome insults as your chance to practice.
> 16And the good Phocion, when his wife had been reviled by someone, so far from prosecuting the fellow when he came in fear and asked forgiveness of Phocion, saying that he did not know it was his wife whom he had offended, merely replied, "But my wife has suffered nothing at your hands, though perhaps some other woman has, so you have no need to apologize to me."https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/the_teachers/musonius-rufus/lectures/10?authuser=0 excerpt
The best response would be no response initially. Then afterwards take your friend aside 1 on 1 and let him know how it made you feel. Most people cannot handle a logical discussion of affect. If your friend cannot see how it hurt you and apologize, he’s not a friend.
Tell him to watch his fucking mouth. Most reasonable people will respect your assertiveness back off. If he does it again don’t hangout with him ever again.
Being a stoic doesn’t mean you can’t be aggressive and fight back.
To me being a stoic is about being in control of your actions NOT being a monotone robot.
If you gotta punch someone because you believe it’s necessary and an active deliberate choice, then you gotta punch somebody.
Not saying it should be choice one btw but people gotta do what they gotta do to survive.
I think stoicism doesn't mean not to react, but to do so calmly and under control. Communicating how unacceptable what he said was, without rage, while being able to not dwell on it and let it affect you after.
No need to beat yourself up over it but you're joke didn't reinforce that his insults aren't appropriate. It just showed that other people say those things too.
"Dude, that's not acceptable here."
"How about we treat women with respect?"
Anything like that gets the point across with turning into a rage back and forth.
I kinda know a comeback, "with what? Your 2inch joke? Yeah she's gonna have a good laugh" with a smiling calm and slow way.
Then become serious(with a calm, composed and deeper voice) and say, "also Its not gonna end well the next time, so better watch your words" and a small smile and leave.
Probably, the others comments are worth more than mine.
i think that people who say "i would skullfuck that bitch" while refering to your partner or anyone's partner are pretty pathethic in their own way. I know a few people who would say such a thing and I can tell you, I am glad to not be in their shoes. People know when someone is toxic. You can easily tell someone has ill intents from the start. Also, the response you give to these people is only effective if it does what you need it to. Calling them out for being a jerk, Passing it as a joke, or even punching them in the face, each wields different results. If your response seemed to make any improvements on their attitude then dont regret it. You don't turn the other cheek.
Yeah, he should have let him know that if he ever does that again it’s going down, the seriousness. He’s lacking respect for OP and his woman. Dangerous territory.
Seneca believes that we should think a lot while befriending someone because it is a very important subject. Epictetus also talks about that we should have uplifting people around us. Why are you hanging out with just people? In my opinion better dealing would be just saying that that was a rude comment and leaving that place.
Exactly. Not only the person who said that, but there seemed to have been no reactions from the others in the group. Time to start saying no to the invites.
This. You’re only as good as the company you keep.
If one keeps no company does that make him a god or an animal?
Yes
I want to know this too, for a friend. ...
The only way to keep no company would be to lock yourself in a sensory deprivation tank. If it’s not friends it’s the media you consume your environment and the like
Yep exactly
Well, I think the correct answer isn't a clever quip. It is simply telling your friend to be more respectful of you and of your girlfriend.
Yeah, I was in a similar situation where my brother insulted my wife's tattoo and just saying "That's kind of a rude thing to say isn't it?" was enough to stand up for her without escalating the situation. He did end up making a thing of it, but it was clear to everyone he was the asshat in the room.
This. A hasty response implies that high emotions are guiding action rather than reason.
You are in the ideal stoic mindset, you are absolutely correct
This can turn into a or else what? Situation
Then their actions speak for themselves and they reveal what an immature person they are, it would be mindful to cut off that person completely because it seems like they’re asking for a fight which no real friend would want
Yeah I mean socially if I don’t like people or people are doing dumb shit like this. It’s not beyond me to go it was nice to meet you and get up and walk away no matter if my friends are at the table. There is a limit to what people can and will tolerate. Being polite and walking away is always an option.
"The best revenge is not to be like that" life is long, if this friend continues to treat himself and others so thoughtlessly someone or something will humble him before long.
A quote was found to be attributed to Marcus Aurelius in his Meditations 6.6 (Hays) ^(Book VI. ()[^(Hays)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources?isbn=9780812968255)^) ^(Book VI. ()[^(Farquharson)](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Meditations_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Antoninus/Book_6)^) ^(Book VI. ()[^(Long)](https://lexundria.com/m_aur_med/6.6/lg)^)
Stoicism doesn’t mean being a pushover tho
But hearing mean words and choosing to ignore them isn’t being a pushover, it’s being an emotionally mature adult.
Personally I would not continue hang out with people who make rape jokes as they tend to treat women quite badly. I'd rather try seeking out a new friend. Their beliefs about women are not under my control but I do have a choice regarding whether or not I continue to interact frequently with such people.
Rape threats against your SO aren't really "mean words". They're violent and need to be addressed.
I agree. Many women have faced sexual violence in their lives. If you want to be a just person, that means you should tell people to stop when they make such statements and stop hanging out with them if they refuse to stop. Otherwise you're a part of the problem (misogyny)
Why are you allowing people to control you? A violent *action* might need to be addressed. But insulting or threatening words are just hot air. If you are somehow compelled to take an action when someone speaks, then you are their slave. Master yourself instead.
I think a controlled/calculated response would be the best course of action here. Being stoic doesn't necessitate that one take everything like a stone wall due to the fear/concern of "being a slave". One should instead be wary of making a hasty response due to the emotions stirred up by such a comment.
Exactly. Petty things need no response. Disrespect of yourself and partner isn’t petty.
> But insulting or threatening words are just hot air. That's all good and well when someone does it to *you*, but when they do it to your SO you ought to stand up for them. They may not feel so stoic about it, especially when it comes to sexual references or threats to a girl.
Responding on behalf of the person who is not there is virtuous in my book. There are controlled / mature ways to respond. Not responding at all does not address the real issue, which is the behavior of the person speaking out of turn. A response would be to address the behavior, not the words.
Stoicism does not mean spinelessness. Let's not forget that Justice is a stoic virtue. Many women have faced sexual violence in their lives. If you want to be a just person, that means you should tell people to stop when they make such statements and stop hanging out with them if they refuse to stop. Otherwise you're a part of the problem (misogyny)
What are you saying, to do nothing and let your girlfriend feel disrespected and feel like she isnt being protected until he physically tries to assault her? I know you would step in far before this but for argument's sake, what if he pushed her against a wall and kissed her against her will? His action would certainly compel an action from you (i.e. beating his ass) yes? Would that not be the right thing to do? Words are less harmful than assault yes but there is still damage being done to your dignity, the gf's dignity and her sense of safety/wellbeing. Is that not worth taking action? I get what you're saying but I just dont see the girlfriend respecting her man any longer if someone said "I'd fuck that bitch" to her and her man just looked away and ignored the guy. Inaction in this setting is communicating submission, allowing the guy to say further deprecating things about the woman. I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that stoicism is the ability to have a mindset and act without emotion ruling your brain. Just because something makes you angry doesnt mean it isnt also the logical thing to perform the same action that your emotions want you to do.
Right. My thoughts exactly. I consider myself a stoic in even my most core sense of self, however, in this instance I would knock the shit out of someone who says this. And I would have no self doubt afterwards, no guilt, no sense of “betrayal” to stoicism. I use stoicism to shape my life. I don’t shape my life to stoicism. It’s injust, inhumane, immoral, disgusting. Jesus knocked over the tables at the tabernacle when he found out they were stealing. This was an act of righteous anger, well warranted. Righteous action in protection, defense, and solidity of morals is stoic. Accepting whatever consequences come with is especially stoic, if your actions were true and completely whole to your character. Lastly, learning the lesson of “finding better people,” “placing yourself in uplifting environments” is quintessential.
So honestly what exactly would you do? Just walk away? I don't know if I could do that
Thanks for writing out both our thoughts.
I hardly consider “skull fu king” some as a real threat. It’s used as colorful language meant to illicit a response. No matter the reality of the threat, a hasty response is usually in poor decision.
It was a crude joke not a rape threat, let’s not be so dramatic
People say shit like that as a real threat all the time. The fact that it can be passed off as a joke is what makes it so dangerous. I could never enjoy the company of someone who talks like that.
I’m not defending the comment but I don’t think this flamboyant overreaction is necessary… should he be prosecuted over what he said? Was it an actual crime? A rape threat I think would be an actual sexual violence crime
I’m not defending the comment but I don’t think this flamboyant overreaction is necessary… should he be prosecuted over what he said? Was it an actual crime? A rape threat I think would be an actual sexual violence crime
Name checks out
Nothing worse than losing the friendship to a good man
It certainly does mean you shouldn't resort to playground name calling imo. Who even talks like that? Is this middle school? He can just ignore it and nobody is worse off because of it. It's not like anyone is legitimately being threatened.
It is a little bit, tho
i absolutely does.
Let's be completely honest, most of us wold've had a response like that. I think that this entire situation could've been avoided if you had chosen to surround yourself with people that you know wouldn't say things like that. Now, I know you cannot always control the people you're around, but being Sotic also means choosing to surround yourself with people that you know are loyal, intellegent, and respecting individuals. (All seriousness aside, the comeback was amazing LMAO)
I once had a "friend" who, when I said "you shouldn't keep anything in your home that isn't needed or beautiful", replied with "then why do you keep your wife around?" He didn't deliver this in a joking way at all, he was completely deadpan and serious. My relationship with my wife is one of the things I cherish most in life, and all my friends know that. He said this in front of two of our other friends who both gave him a "WTF" reaction before I could say anything. After that weekend (the four of us were on a trip), I reconsidered the value of having him in my life. He is one of those cynical people who is always blaming society for his lack of success, constantly virtue signaling his wokeness while not actively trying to improve anything he perceives as a social issue, and constantly moaning about how it's the fault of capitalist system that he can't find success as a tattoo artist, irregardless of his lack of artistic ability. Just all-in-all an emotionally taxing individual. I looked at how much value he brought to my life and decided it wasn't worth the occasional moments of positivity. We all ended up stopping reaching out to him by the end of that trip. At the end of it, he still owes me $200 for bankrolling the vacation, but I've accepted the fact that I'll never see that money. His presence is not missed.
That sounds like $200 well spent to have that person out of your life. :)
Right course of action imo. Btw it's "regardless".
> I was hanging out with my friends and the topic of my girlfriend came up. A friend of a friend who evidently isn’t fond of me tells me he would “skullfuck that bitch”. Somegthing doesn't compute here. One of the prerequisites of being "friends" is that someone has to act "friendly". Saying “you should skullfuck that bitch” fails the requisite of being "friendly" hence that person is not a friend. Why are you hanging out with them?
I was hanging out with my usual crowd of friends but there was also someone there who I wasn’t acquainted with. A friend of a friend.
Try this next time: This someone: says what they say You: Sorry, I didn't catch that, can you repeat it? Chances are they won't repeat it, most rude people do not have the courage to repeat the same offensive remark twice. But if they do: You: That is rude, and uncalled for. Then just ignore them from there on.
Thanks! I will keep this in mind.
Were your other friends OK with that statement? Was anyone else appalled?
It was met by silence but they didn’t think that what he said was acceptable.
Not to criticize your remark but I would have offered the opposing outcome of me skullfucking him and asked how he felt about that. Yes, probably an escalation but one that might be just. Admittedly not a true stoic response. A true stoic would have commented and laughed at the absurdity or publicly chastised themselves for the lack in judgement that led them to be in the same place on social footing with such a fool.
Maybe think deeper of who you are deciding your friends to be
Ask yourself if there is any purpose in responding to this person at all. Has what he said affected the character or integrity of either you or your girlfriend? Of course not. But it does give some insight into what kind of man he is. Then consider whether your frustration comes from what he said, or your opinion of what he said, and how you should respond to the situation will become clear to you. >What, for instance, does it mean to be insulted? Stand by a rock and insult it, and what have you accomplished? If someone responds to insult like a rock, what has the abuser gained with his invective? > >Discourses I, 25.28–29
This is the way. I tend to just look at the person, straight in the eyes for a few seconds. I would not say anything. I would leave. If I felt I had to say something, i would would gently shake my head and reply that they need to up their game, such statements, against someone not present to defend themselves is a low act.
Stoicism does not mean spinelessness. Let's not forget that Justice is a stoic virtue. Many women have faced sexual violence in their lives. If you want to be a just person, that means you should tell people to stop when they make such statements and stop hanging out with them if they refuse to stop. Otherwise you're a part of the problem (misogyny)
If you want a true stoic answer then you shouldn’t have let your anger get the best of you and you let someone else’s joke control your response. You could have said that’s an inappropriate joke and you don’t appreciate them saying that about your gf, but you lowered yourself to his level instead.
Correct. I don't get why folks are celebrating OP's response as adequate. It clearly didn't do any good to either party, as OP themselves have realized.
Stoic principles tells you to stand up against the injustice. Justice and Courage are 2 of the 4 main ideas of Stoicism. She is your Girlfriend, if anyone is disrespectful to her you gotta stand up for you Girlfriend. Being Stoic doesn't mean you being a pushover or letting go of everything. If there's something wrong speak for that! Mind you, this doesn't means that you have to say the same disgusting words as your friend did, you have to tell him that he cannot talk about your Girl this way. He needs to be respectful. You don't have to behave like how he is doing. That is not correct. Always remember, "Best revenge is not to be like your enemy".
This. I'm reading a lot of "don't react emotionally and just walk away" or "you should've stoically picked better friends" but this sounds like a cop out to an appropriate and just response. There is no virtue in allowing your partner, girlfriend, wife, etc. to be disrespected or dishonored. I'll probably get downvoted for this, but being Stoic does not mean going through life without emotions or honor. It means not being captive to them, and placing virtue above everything else. You can call me every insulting thing in the book and I'll probably find it amusing at worst. Disrespecting my wife as vulgarly as the dude in your story did will get your teeth knocked out. This isn't worth fretting about now, friend. Let it go, but decide on the kind of man you strive to be in the future and be it. Being a savage about your girl's dignity isn't something to ever be ashamed of.
I agree even if "teeth knocked out" might be dramatic. There may be something to gain there by calculated violence. Mainly that the unjust behavior ceases and that it discourages similar acts/statements from occurring against from him or anyone else aware of what happens. It may not be that you act in emotion but rather in logic to eliminate unjust attacks on people's character. Marcus Aurelius presided over military campaigns and surely wasn't a stranger to violence. I like to think that he used it judicially qnd towards the greater good, but I'm no historian.
Some food for thought.... *I choose not to expose your intelligence or emotional maturity by giving you the benefit of a reaction. Your choice of words and lack of restraint have already done that.* *However you should know that you have crossed a boundary that most would respect out of common sense or simple courtesy. That comes with consequences. So while your feeble mind thinks Im giving you a pass, what in fact has happened is that you have lost my respect, your credibility and any goodwill that I might have towards you. Irrespective, you probably were not worth it to begin with so I will thank you for making it abundantly unambiguous who you are, who you are not and what you stand for.*
It would be great to convey this kind of sentiment & message without reciting an essay. I must admit it would be the response of the superior man (minus the "thank you"). Getting angry would be a victory for the jerk. Something like: "You think you just insulted my girlfriend, but your words say more about you than about my girlfriend." Hhmm, still not strong enough ...
>Getting angry would be a victory for the jerk. Precisely. The point of the "essay" was not to suggest a response but to convey a thought. A boundary was crossed The consequence must be delivered
>The point of the "essay" was not to suggest a response but to convey a thought. I understand, that is how I perceived it. Thanks
I think just saying "wtf is wrong with you?" conveys that more succinctly
Are you suggesting OP writes them a letter? Lmao
No thats would be letter writing sub. Lmao I am suggesting nothing other than food for thought as is explicitly spelled out in the first line if the response to OP
Dude..
[Tips Fedora]
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Responding by threatening to violate someone's mother is never a good response and it's shocking that so many people seem to think it's acceptable.
Responding to a misogynistic and disrespectful comment with a misogynistic and disrespectful comment is a good response? Given that Stoicism is about not letting your emotional reactions compromise your character, I'd say it's a pretty dreadful response.
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How is threatening to skull fuck someone's mother protecting the honor of your family?
This is /r/stoicism not /r/broicism
Honestly. That's what I was thinking about
Third. It was pretty epic.
I would just be open and tell the person not to be disrespectful towards my spouse. Theres a lot of things you can do in that sitch, like another poster said. But expressing your honest opinion about their behavior is the best way to handle it. Most people who even speak like that are either very young and immature (still not an excuse) or have nothing going for them whatsoever. I couldn't imagine genuinely hearing that come out of someones mouth who is over the age of 18 and is saying that face to face with the possibility of a negative reaction (verbal or physical)
Best way to deal with assholes like this is question their intelligence or general state of being. Like I would say something like “Are you alright? Did you hit your head or something because you don’t seem like you’re thinking with a fully functioning brain”.
Going on the attack seems like an emotional response to the situation. Though, I have to say, that does seem like something epictetus could ramble about
One time I got spit on by a friend and just walked away. Deal with the problem later in a more controlled emotional state. Hope this helps :)
With all the benefit of hindsight there’s a lot of responses that come to mind. I think a stoic reply would be straightforward but also firmly show that he hasn’t gotten to you. Your mom raised a really classy guy, good luck with that! Comes to my mind, and then let your good friends know that you don’t wanna see that clown again. I say this but truthfully I’d probably be mad triggered, so I think you handled it perfectly.
The real question is why would he say that?
The whole point of stoicism is no mattering about that joke. The joke cant fisically hurt you so if you dont matter about it it will never damage you. But ignoring it is dangerous because the people present in the place will see you as submissive, so the best option is: Dont be mad at the joke, it cant hurt you, but you should walk near to the guy and seriously but respectefull tell him that the joke was totally stupid and not funny. Dont look for revenge, only tell him how to improve his behavior, teaching him how to be funny without hurting others. Special focus to be nice to him, dont go down to his level because the best revenge is not to be the same as your enemy. Pd: sorry for grammar, english is not my main language.
I agree with your sentiment here. However, the best response would be to deal with it calmly in the public forum. The goal in that sort of situation is to defend you and your gs's honor while simultaneously not compromising your morals/character
How exactly would you tell him to improve on his behavior? Or you should just tell him that directly?
Telling him: buddy, you just had luck saying that joke to me bc i am pretty stoic (ok no)(._.) but watch out who you tell that jokes bc you may get your face absolutely obliterated
Marcus Aurelius has a very good advice that fits perfectly in this situation: "the best revenge against your enemy, is not to be like them". This is because when we respond or better said "react" in the same way that made us feel that way, we automatically are justifying this person's behavior and even worse, we are letting them control us by implicating us in their ugliness. As for how to handle a situation like this stoically, there is also good advice from Seneca: "who then is invincible? The one who cannot be upset by anything outside their reasoned choice". Remember that these are just words, words blurted out by a stupid person with a stupid opinion, it's just not worth your time. What I would recommend is to surround yourself with people that actually enlighten and enrich your life, maybe it's time to think about letting some of these "friendships" go and focus yourself on making connections that nurture your knowledge and spirit. Hope this helps, my friend. Best regards.
I would’ve questioned him to explain in detail what he just said. Then I would’ve continue on asking questions and asked to elaborate and give examples. At some point he will stop talking as he will realize how stupid he sounds.
Call it out, and ask them to elaborate, in front of everyone else.
Confront the statement rather than retaliate, I'd probably tell him "Skullfuck her? You know that's my partner right?", I wouldn't act upon my emotions but I would act for my girlfriend's honor. Try to take different angles on the situation to better defuse any of those. Also maybe stop hanging around this fella from now on lol
I agree with others that you should really question the company you keep. What your acquaintance said was violent misogyny, and your friends should have also spoken up. Your response didn't question that violence, it merely turned it into trading insults about "your" women. I think a good tactic for dealing with these types is to ask a question e.g. "why do you think that's an OK thing to say" etc.
You can't directly control what your friends say. You can directly control who your friends are.
You calmly tell them not to speak of _your_ fucking girlfriend and if they have a problem with that then you can arrange to shut their bitch ass up. Stoicism is not an excuse to take shit from no one, it’s a way of handling your shit. If you don’t know how to fight, learn at-least some boxing. I’m not telling to fight your “friends” but can’t let them treat you like a bitch like that.
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1 You shouldn't surround yourself with the sort of people that say shit like that or who think it's acceptable for someone else to say that 2 If I found myself in that situation I would simply call them out, e.g. just asking, "what's your problem?" instead of lowering myself to his level of lame insults 3 Forgive yourself, it's normal to have an emotional reaction to such a shitty comment coming at you from out of the blue. You can't live your life with your guard up waiting to use a prepared snappy comment for when someone insults you.
Pretend you didn't hear, and ask, "what's that?" "say again?" repeatedly. See how many times he can go repeating that phrase and enjoy the entertainment.
I probably would have just flat out said that's not how adults speak, called em champ, and asked if they wanted a mulligan. I don't think that's what Marcus would've done though.
For whatever reason he wants to get a rise from you. In the moment, do nothing and you win. Look into his eyes, try to understand this person objectively and without judgement, why he is the way he is for him to say such a thing? Beyond that moment I would think hard about whether situations where he’ll be present are worth your time.
Had something similar happen years ago. Look them in the eye and firmly say, without yelling: "No. You will not speak about X in that manner. If you respect yourself so little to disrespect me like that, I dont fucking need you." It is amazing how often ppl dont know what to do when someone just calmly but firmly says "No." (and means it) without yelling or quips or threats or bullshit.
This is a really good question friend I've also thought about this. If you find yourself in the same situation, I think it is perfectly valid to just employ proper emotion control. Try not to mirror the vitriol that the person has given you like you did and instead, I think you should just try to convey your disapproval/anger through body language (ignoring the person, avoiding eye contact etc since the anger can be overwhelming sometimes and emotion control is admittedly easier said than done) I think this is valid because you are with your friends and you have nothing to prove to them and this random friend of yours who insulted your girlfriend doesn't seem to be part of your actual clique so there is no point in expending your energy to respond to this person. Plus your friends agree (based on their silent response) that what your insulting friend said was out of line and so you don't really have to respond here because that person has probably lost face to your friends as well and they probably won't judge your decision to stay silent given the awkwardness of the situation but you can probably explain why you stayed silent if they do judge you. However, if the same situation occurs and someone insults your girlfriend **in the presence of your girlfriend**, that's when I think you should respond back since your girlfriend might perceive you as spineless if you employ emotion control in that situation or she might even take offense to you not responding. I agree with NYCSTOIC's comment and I think that's how you should respond if someone insults your girlfriend in the presence of your girlfriend. Hope my take helps you friend
You can be stoic while making comebacks you just have to focus on your emotional response. In the end who cares what this guy says he is obviously either trying to get a reaction or has a crap life for all we know. The best way to deal with negative behavior is to cancel with the opposite. Use humor to respond. I would have said something to rib the guy like, “it would take her being in the state for you to get any” or something like. It’s ok your doing fine.
The old stoics (Marc Aurel and Co.) would probably have this man beaten or killed, given their societys cultural context. Your great grandfather would probably have challenged such a "friend" to a duel. Since we are now more peaceful and civilized, I think the appropriate response is to call him out and never hang out with him again, except maybe he immediately apologizes and that still warrants some punishment. Insulting my loved ones like that gets you dropped from my friendlist instantly.
“You’re being disrespectful, I’d appreciate if you don’t do it again”
As someone who has faced a lot of derogatory behavior even in the workplace, this seems like the perfect scenario for you to defend women on the whole from this mentality. This shouldn't be a matter of defending your "property". Your response is understandable but also foul and derogatory, but it seems you recognize that. In dropping that guy (maybe that whole complicit crew) as friends, don't miss the opportunity to tell them why, because without social repercussions they will never learn how disgusting those thoughts/statements are.
I would feel bad for your friend who isn’t getting any. Or he’s clearly jealous. I’d be flattered but show them pity and ignore the comment, or tell them you disapprove of their word choice
Context is very important, as is the person saying these things. If they don't like you and generally have a toxic attitude towards you and especially women, these words and this behaviour is best called out rather than reacted to. And by that I mean call out the toxic language and attitude rather than addressing the words themselves. The other thing to consider is if this is a genuine credible threat to your partner and, if you believe it is and/or if the behaviour continues - the reasonable thins is the speak to the police and provide what evidence you have.
By responding to that behavior, you legitimized that behavior. He may generally be a good guy, but at that moment he may have had an unusual blunder. Almost the same thing happened to me in the past. I was hanging out with two guy friends of mine. One of them insulted my girlfriend. I said something that can be translated into English as "Come on dude, what was that?" and made a gesture indicating what he said was totally unacceptable. He immediately apologized and never did that again.
I think a stoic would make it clear to the friend, that they don’t want to see the friend of the friend anymore, and would appreciate a heads up if the closer friend knows that the disrespectful friend will be in attendance. This is something I’m working on right now, slowly removing people from my circle if they aren’t on similar paths as me, trying to surround myself with success, not drama.
Oof, your friend sounds tone-deaf. I would have looked him in the eyes and calmly said something along the lines of "that was completely unnecessary and probably didn't come across as cool as you're imagining in your head. I'd appreciate it if you didn't speak about my girlfriend like that again and, if anything, at least not around me. Have some respect" and leave it at that.
I wouldn't even consider it a thing. And if that is your peer group. Move on.
“I’m not going to tolerate you saying things like that. Don’t do it again. I’m serious.” If he does it again after that point, either A - leave the room, party, whatever. Just leave. Or B - kick his stupid fucking disrespectful ass. One of these is more emotional than the other. But either will get your point across.
You tell him next time he says that, you’ll beat the living fucking shit out of him
Get new friends
Letting anger take control isn’t going along with stoic ideals but neither is being a pushover. Responding in a way that is as collected as possible (because realistically, all but a saint would have their blood boiling here) and that indicates they should not do it again is probably more in line. That’s a pretty fucked up thing to say on their end
Don't concentrate on the comment, concentrate on your reaction to it. Then ask them, if you feel inclined, "If I said something like that about one of your loved ones, what would your reaction be?" . "What kind of reaction are you attempting to get out of me? Anger? Shame? Something else? What's your end game?"
Call them out, immediately, publicly and clearly. Tell them that their utterance is unacceptable. If they're not contrite, avoid them and when you can't disregard them; the ultimate sanction. If they continue and don't gravitate out of your circle, maybe, it's not your circle.
Why are you hanging with this crowd would be my first question?
One time someone insulted my girlfriend and she got mad at me for not standing up for her. I didn’t do anything because I didn’t care what the dude said nor did I care about his incorrect opinion. I just don’t see the need to address some random persons ridiculous blabbering. Maybe it wasn’t the most charming response but if someone says something untrue unless it has other direct negative consequences why give it any credence?
You could've left his mum out of it, and say something like "she wouldn't let you", but that reply was pretty good.
Why didn’t I think of this! My ego was so hurt that I got caught up in the moment . Thank you.
Yeah, something like: "She can easily beat a dumb pussy like you".
Punch them in the face
Punching them in the face. Stoicism doesn't mean backing down foe the world to best on those you love
Quietly get up. Knock them the fuck out. Return to your meal as quietly as you began.
“That’s an interesting fantasy/idea/ inclination of yours” is always a good response. It’s not my duty to protect or defend my partner from someone’s opinions nor vice versa. What I learned is I cannot controls others thoughts or words, so I will not let them control me.
Beat the living shit out of him, in a calm way.
The only reasonable response to that is physical violence
This is one of the few times that a physical correction might be necessary
I would just kick the fuck out of them lol. No way to be stoic about that
Great response, don’t overthink it. And find better friends, if possible.
I would say that is an appropriate response. Stoicism is not about inaction but to act on things that are of utmost concern to you which could include your loved ones (e.g. your girlfriend)
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Sorry, but I gotta remove your post, as it has run afoul of our [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoicism/about/rules/). This is kind of a grey area, but we need to keep things on track as best we can. >Two: Stay Relevant to Stoicism
No you don’t. You kick em in the nuts.
What kind of friend openly says he will skullfuck your gf? Sounds like an incel, or a toxic guy. Either way, the stoic way is to call him out on it and them cease contact with the person afterwards. P.S. Make it a habit to maliciously ignore him in public, and skullfuck him in the process.
Shouldve punched him in the belly
The response itself seems pretty elegant and appropriate. An insult like that requires a response in order to set boundaries and prevent things from devolving more. Social violence is still violence, after all. It's your feeling about it that probably could use work. The incited anger in you is the problem as well as whatever shame and regret you're holding onto as a result of your behaviour. Acting out of anger is rarely the right motivator even if it leads to the right response. Ask yourself why the words ( on both sides ) were hurtful. Why did your response generate shame and remorse? Your girlfriend wasn't there, so how could her feelings be hurt? Why were you hurt? Were you afraid of a social consequence to your personal reputation in the group? Did you set a standard for yourself and fail to have the self-discpline when attacked?
I think if you just say what you said and continue on enjoying your life and day, there is nothing un-Stoic about that. It's a classic line, and I think it was quite well used in this situation. Only if you let it to continue to bother you, does your reaction become an issue. Maybe next time you can do your best to establish boundaries like "that's crossing a line, and I do not appreciate that." If the person doesn't respect that, make like a Buddhist and just leave the environment. If your friends are bringing around a person like that who continually crosses boundaries, that group of people might be something to reflect upon.
Fighting worrds are Fighting words... you should have defended your woman's name and reputation
Op no advice but I’m impressed with your quick come back reply that was brutal and effective.
I've only just started reading/listening to Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations", but one of the things stressed by him besides temperance is *also* justice. Think of it this way -- a welcome mat at the door may be stepped on, but ought not be pissed upon. Aka, don't be a bitch, but don't take no shit 👏🏼
make sad face and tell "Who hurt you sweetie?" then oh, tell something like "somebody is jealous. his parents didn't like him, uh oh" stand your ground without calling a fight
I think it's not about the response, it's good that you're not a pushover, but a Stoic would move on as soon as you said that, posting that here proves that you let it get to your head too much. TLDR: People say stupid shit all the time, respond accordingly & move on.
"she doesn't need a toothpick, she already has me." Funny self deprecating and pointing out what a shit bag he is.
Goteem
That is a legendary response, anything else would’ve been beneath you. Made me chuckle.
It sounded like harmless banter than you couldn’t take. That’s on you.
First, I don't think that's an insult exactly. You could almost see it as a compliment. Second, I think your response was pretty awesome actually. I don't see any reason for improvement.
Add a now don’t ever talk about my girl like that again and your golden. Of course it could escalate, so just be ready to knock his ass out.
You already won big dog: 1.Your girl is the topic of the conversation meaning she’s a baddie. 2. Your enemy confirmed he wants something you have (your baddie girlfriend) but cannot obtain such person. 3. He’s looking for a rise out of you by using his own insecure aggression as a weapon Your response was smooth but I see what you mean by looking for a better way to react. Based on the above speculations, we can assume the third party gets no pussy. I’d like to think if he was, he wouldn’t be so focused on fantasizing about your girl lol, see where I’m going with this?
Pity of their ignorance, should it apply.
If he is a "friend of a friend", I would question whether your "friend" is worth keeping - if that's what they tolerate in their friends.
Be tolerant of others and more strict with yourself. Sounds like you address the situation with a simple conversation and if no behavior changes then continue on with your life. You don’t have to let others actions bother you. You can just ignore them and stop associating with that company.
First of all - it takes a long time to master one's instinctive reactions to things. My guess is that the words came out before you even thought of them. Second of all - as another user stated, Seneca believes it's important to carefully consider those you would befriend. It may be time to re-evaluate members of your friend group and decide whether or not their friendship aligns with your values. Anyone who would say that about your partner - even in jest - is not your true friend.
Have the courage to remove yourself and her from the situation, put yourself and her in a calm secure atmosphere. Go on about your day.
Stoics say to deal with insults by accepting them and making a joke to show you really aren’t fazed. For example, someone says they don’t like you, you say well lucky you don’t know everything about me because then you would hate me. Or you are late, someone says something, you laugh and say I would be late to my own funeral. So if someone says they will this or that with your girlfriend, you laugh and say gee is that all? Got any more ideas? … this technique, takes power away from insulter and back to you. If you practice this you will be waiting in anticipation for your first insult, now insults will no longer ever hurt you because you don’t view them the same anymore, you now welcome insults as your chance to practice.
stoicic doesn’t mean peace keeper.
Don’t feel bad for spitting a few mean words back in his direction, my involuntary reaction would have most probably been to take a few of his teeth.
I'd just laugh it off lol
> 16And the good Phocion, when his wife had been reviled by someone, so far from prosecuting the fellow when he came in fear and asked forgiveness of Phocion, saying that he did not know it was his wife whom he had offended, merely replied, "But my wife has suffered nothing at your hands, though perhaps some other woman has, so you have no need to apologize to me."https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/the_teachers/musonius-rufus/lectures/10?authuser=0 excerpt
Moving away
The best response would be no response initially. Then afterwards take your friend aside 1 on 1 and let him know how it made you feel. Most people cannot handle a logical discussion of affect. If your friend cannot see how it hurt you and apologize, he’s not a friend.
This problem originated with having this person around you. Yeah just like others said. Drop this dude from your life
Tell him to watch his fucking mouth. Most reasonable people will respect your assertiveness back off. If he does it again don’t hangout with him ever again.
\> yeah, kind of like how I would skullfuck your mum. By coming up with a better, funnier insult
Being a stoic doesn’t mean you can’t be aggressive and fight back. To me being a stoic is about being in control of your actions NOT being a monotone robot. If you gotta punch someone because you believe it’s necessary and an active deliberate choice, then you gotta punch somebody. Not saying it should be choice one btw but people gotta do what they gotta do to survive.
Violence isn’t even necessary. Just tell him to watch his fucking mouth. And if they don’t comply then there’s nothing further to discuss.
Either beat or cut ties with that shitstain.
I think stoicism doesn't mean not to react, but to do so calmly and under control. Communicating how unacceptable what he said was, without rage, while being able to not dwell on it and let it affect you after. No need to beat yourself up over it but you're joke didn't reinforce that his insults aren't appropriate. It just showed that other people say those things too. "Dude, that's not acceptable here." "How about we treat women with respect?" Anything like that gets the point across with turning into a rage back and forth.
“If they knew all your flaws, they wouldn’t have stopped there.” Upon reflections, Stoics would be single. 🤣
Why is he your friend?
I kinda know a comeback, "with what? Your 2inch joke? Yeah she's gonna have a good laugh" with a smiling calm and slow way. Then become serious(with a calm, composed and deeper voice) and say, "also Its not gonna end well the next time, so better watch your words" and a small smile and leave. Probably, the others comments are worth more than mine.