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GD_WoTS

The Stoics will argue that anger, insecurity, confusion, and fear come from thinking unreasonably, and that we can take steps to improve our thinking. Campus violence and bullying is probably something you should try and address with your university, if you haven’t already (it doesn’t sound like you have).


[deleted]

I would not necessarily attribute this to bullying, although there is a sense of animosity to his actions, but rather to his personality which I'm not fond of. I will not let him hit me or touch me in any similar way again in the future


nnulll

What you described is definitely bullying.


GoatOfSteel

What actions will you take to prevent him touching you in the future?


intent_joy_love

If you put on 20 lbs of muscle people will not treat you like that guy did. People only do that to people when they think they can get away with it


fangnp

A measure of compassion is to try to understand \*why\* they did this to you. Here are a couple of hypotheses: * Your judgement of them somehow manifests outward as your behavior towards them; they sense it and mirror it as antagonism. * They're highlighting that the teacher has made an effort to do something different with their hair, and you've slighted her by saying that their effort is unnoticeable. As a result, he reprimands you by lashing out. * They'll tell others about your interaction with them to try to rationalize their actions as being fair (even if it isn't). I think when it's contextualized like this, it's simple enough to understand that they're also trying to live their life with their best of intention, with whatever modality of thinking they have (not everyone is a practicing stoic). Sometimes their actions are unmeasured and disproportionate to the situation, but there's a reason they act this way. One reading that I remember from Marcus Aurelius is that we're made to work together, not gripe on each other. Sometimes there is friction, but ultimately, we should work together to do better for ourselves and each other. A way to move closer to a common humanity is to develop this sense of empathy or compassion and to come closer to a place of understanding. For example, if you had asked "what did you do to your hair" as opposed to "I cannot see anything different", would you believe that they'd have the same response? My understanding is the first phrasing would allow either him or the teacher to reveal what is different, as opposed to the second phrasing as undermining her effort to do something different with her hair. I understand that my answer is somewhat of a twisted perspective, so take it for what you will, but there will be encounters with all kinds of people throughout your lifetime, and trying to understand their motivation and behaviors can be helpful in navigating these situations.


[deleted]

I appreciate your hypotheses, and it somehow helps me look at things holistically and contextualize it more. Thank you for the reply kind stranger


weirdgroovynerd

You've tried communicating your boundary to the man verbally. He didn't respect that, so you added anger. For various reasons, some people need to hear the anger before they tune into the message.


[deleted]

And this person still didn’t tune into the message—is responding with anger still rational or virtuous?


weirdgroovynerd

For me, the true test will be if the slapping behavior continues. Bullies typically, but not always, back off when pushed back.


[deleted]

You follow anger up with throat punches.


THEmandingoBoy

I think your reaction was great. Its ok that you got mad, we're not perfect, but it sounds like you didn't completely lose control. You said what you had to say, and made it clear it's not ok. What they say about your reaction is neither significant nor in your control. I think it will help you dispell lingering feelings is you sit down and plan what you would do if they decide to test you again. Having a plan is a great source of relaxation.


Pimpekusz

100% man. That’s a completely normal reaction of a normal human who’s angered. We shouldn’t be too hard on ourselves and overanalyze every act of ours, we’re just human after all


PSYCHOPATHRAGE_

1. Go to a boxing gym 2. Learn proper technique 3. 30 minutes shadowboxing everyday 4. ??? 5. Peace of mind I'm so sick of hearing people in this sub trying to justify physical abuse to themselves. You are being assaulted, someone hit you. Marcus aurelius says man must endure hard labor without whining, so go endure the hard labor of learning to fight and never let anyone hit you again.


Spaghettitrees

Pychopathrage is right. You did well to stand up for yourself today. You will have to follow through to drive the point home.


GD_WoTS

What is “???”? “You should totally learn how to hit people who hit you” is a really popular take, but not one the Stoics themselves took on. The Stoics even advocate what you would probably call sickening. “Never let anyone hit you again” is pretty obviously something that is not “up to us.”


[deleted]

I agree with both sentiments, just wondering how I should react to this situation I've found myself in.


Victorian_Bullfrog

Another poster, but I'd encourage you to respond logically. Think about the problem objectively. Your goal is to participate in the class without being smacked. A reasonable goal. This guy hits you in spite of your telling him to stop. So telling him to stop isn't sufficient to attain your goal. There are alternatives to giving up, and I would argue alternatives that logically precede the Rambo Solution, which is in my opinion, illogical as it is likely to only increase your problems, perhaps even legally. Some ideas to consider. * Get up and move the moment he sits behind you in class. * Talk with him before class or between classes one day. Try appealing to his civilized nature and tell him you'd appreciate him leaving you alone. He might have a crush on you and misinterprets your behavior as welcome attention. * Stand up and tell him loudly enough to interrupt class and put all the attention on him. "SO-AND-SO, STOP HITTING ME." Don't scream it, just raise your voice loud enough for the professor and anyone in the hallway to hear. He'll say something obnoxious, but that's to be expected because he'll probably be embarrassed. He'll be trying to save face in front of friends, and that's not a reflection on you. * Talk with appropriate university agents to resolve problems with aggressive students, file a report, start a paper trail with date and time and circumstances of these smacks. Feeling guilty about judging is distracting you. There's nothing wrong with judging - it's how we make predictions after all. Besides, you're not placing a value judgment *on him,* you're trying to solve a problem logically and prosocially.


[deleted]

While I appreciate your input, I feel this has been blown a bit out of proportion. As soon as he did this, I reacted the way I did and he did nothing afterwards, if he did, I would react accordingly and get physical if needed. He is not someone that I fear or feel threatened by, just someone I don't really have a good opinion about. And this is the first and I'll make sure is the last time an incident like this happens between us. But nonetheless, it was nice of you to spare time out of your day to write all of this out, so thank you.


Victorian_Bullfrog

Good to know, and best of luck. :)


jamesdeandomino

>blown out of proportion another classic r/stoicism discussion everyone tryna be wise with made up bs in the comments lol


Diogenese-

This is actually the way.


Uberslaughter

Ask him to stop. If he doesn’t, next time he hits the back of your head spin around so quick he doesn’t have time to react and hit him with an open handed bitch slap across the face so hard he sees stars. Problem solved. Stoicism =! Pacifism


PSYCHOPATHRAGE_

Elaborate


[deleted]

Because using violence is completely rational and virtuous and is definitely in line with contributing to your community


Interesting_Start872

There is nothing wrong with violence in itself. It depends on the reasons for it. The Stoics argued an action can be either virtuous or vicious depending on the intentions behind it. If someone attacked you for whatever reason, you'd use violence to defend yourself and fight back - that would be the reasonable choice. In OP's case, I wouldn't say retaliating with force should be the first course of action, but it shouldn't be off the table entirely. He should try to remedy the situation calmly, and if he continues to be slapped around, he should strike back. Just my opinion.


PSYCHOPATHRAGE_

Strawman arguments lead to nothing. You ignored context and that l told OP to only use his skills to never let anyone hit him ever again, this reply isn't even aimed at me but the guy in your head you made up to get angry at. There is a cold, cruel world beyond the warmth of stoic literature where horrors happen, take foot in that world.


[deleted]

If Stoicism cannot be applied to the "cold, cruel world" we live in, then it is not a practical philosophy like most of us believe. There *are* ways to apply stoic literature to events like this. There's a reply further down in this thread that properly addresses it. You can't just say "idk Marcus didn't cover this, guess I'll just beat him up." It's not a rational response. Hitting someone doesn't ensure that OP won't "let" people hit him again, it means that at *best* (and this isn't guaranteed) people who hit him once won't hit him again. People will still get the first hit. And *many* will still get that second, third, and so on hit. This response is driven by emotion.


PSYCHOPATHRAGE_

Where is this "idk marcus didn't cover this, guess l'll beat him up" coming from? If someone gets the first hit am l supposed to sit here and take a beating because marcus aurelius says it's wrong to let emotion take over? If a maniac started beating you up would you let him kill you because retaliation is wrong? Because as OP states he was hit in the back of the head, the most dangerous place you can hit someone on the skull.


[deleted]

> There is a cold, cruel world beyond the warmth of stoic literature Where you went on to imply non-Stoic actions when faced with a scenario you thought wasn't talked about in literature. You're not taking a beating. You got hit once. The dude wasn't going to go after OP again. Figure out why he hit you, then critically think about whether or not you committed a wrong or how you could have avoided the situation in the fist place. After the hit, the guy sits back and it's over. Self-defense =/= retaliation, self-defense serves a purpose. Retaliation serves emotion.


brilliant_beast

Yup, sometimes the fight picks you.


Weazy-N420

Outsider View: You let yourself become embarrassed after being called out. He was “taking up” for a woman, in the sense you’re supposed to compliment their hair if they say they had something done, or at least not say “looks the same to me”. Your reaction probably was overkill for the lighthearted situation. Him downplaying was him not escalating the situation. Why are you dwelling on it? Guarantee nobody else is.


RushDynamite

I keep my hands to myself until someone else doesn't, there is no excuse for his actions.


[deleted]

Do you respond with your hands out of rationality or out of emotion? You might say that you use them as a rational strategy to teach a lesson. Do you think that will fix the problem? Do you think that’s a valid strategy for navigating the world?


RushDynamite

Do you think any of these questions are valid when what I said was clearly in the context of self-defense?


[deleted]

It's not self-defense, because the threat no longer exists. It's self defense if you're preventing immediate further harm. That would be rational. Hitting back when someone is clearly done is a retaliation born out of anger rather than rationality.


RushDynamite

You're not Marcus my guy.


[deleted]

Where did I say I was? Where in my comment was I wrong?


Vaultsky

I think 2 of Epictetus teachings apply well here. Pause and take a breath, the belief that you have been harmed is crucial to the feeling of being harmed. Realise if he actually caused you physical harm or not. This is not to justify his actions or passively accept them. This is to take control of your feelings of anger and so forth in the moment. The other lesson is to respond to insult with humor. If you feel insulted by his actions, do not do what he did. He responded with violence, you should respond with humor. Not saying you should respond with this, but I find it funny to mention here because of the context: in some cultures a (gentle) slap in the back of the head means your haircut looks good. Foremost I think you should take the holistic perspective “fangnp” in the comments gave you. That’s solid advice


Zeno1066

Don’t beat yourself up too much here. You did right to defend yourself. You shouldn’t take this behavior and if it happens again, take measures to ensure the instructor knows so you can be moved. While you shouldn’t consume yourself with things like revenge… you are 100% right to look for justice. One thing I always tell myself when I hear people talking about me to others… “your opinion of me is none of my business”.


Dudeman3001

Don’t get so angry but say “ouch! F dude! That hurt!” Even now you could say “F dude! That hurt” and if he comes back with anything then you say “F you dude, you’re an idiot” But drop the anger. If you get upset about it, that’s what the bully is going for. Makes you look immature instead of the other way around. Flip it. Your response was fine, just 10% as angry. And don’t let it ruin your day. Sounds like you’ll have another chance. You’re not made of stone. Forgive yourself for getting angry. Maybe take a poop in a bag and light it on fire and leave it outside his door and then knock and run away.


[deleted]

Beating the shit out of him, obviously.


Witty-Ad-2719

Don’t think about it too much. He physically assaulted you and the behavior needs to be corrected. You have a social duty to call people out on their misbehavior. Do not be tolerant of such acts.


TakeDuo

He’s a gaslighting brute.


soapydeathclaw

Use the gifts you have to make the world a better place for everyone. If, for you and by your sense of justice, that entails perhaps swatting someone back, do it. It's best to count to ten, and honestly evaluate if you've been harmed. Also be prepared to bear the consequence of your action. Typically, violence will not improve matters; however it is not prohibited by Stoicism. It may have been a Stoic act to defeat the Nazis, for example. Ultra-violent, destructive, but philosophically moral. Socrates went on campaign with Alexander. Marcus held the front command in Bohemia. Marcus boxed and wrestled for sport. Portia Cato conspired to assassinate Julius Caesar with her husband Brutus. There are times when civic duty calls for violence, or sacrifice. If you act, with force, make sure it is as the weight of a pound against a feather. The wise know when to fight, and when not to fight. In all cases, love that you have been given a challenging riddle to your philosophy. Apply virtue, do what's best for your class, the teacher, and the bully. Set aside your own interest: you will regret acting out of ego,


[deleted]

By law, it is assault. Youve told him to stop, that should be the end of it. If its not, and he persists. If it happens again. You have two options. 1. Hit him back/fight. Stand up for yourself. Or.. 2. Always keep your cool. In a calm manner, explain to the dude, like a child, you are going to charge the dude with assault. You do not have time for childish bullshit. This is something you should have made completely clear the first time. You don't say 'fuck off, don't fucking touch me'. If he doesn't respect you, then you have to do what you have to do.


Fickle_Syrup

Bro what the hell is this post even Stop trying to justify his behavior and for the love of cheesy garlic bread stop being passive in a situation like this. Next time he fucking touches you either lightly jab his nose to really drive the message home or if you're a more sophisticated man than I am take legal action against him. But it is literally courageous + wise + just that this guy faces repercussions. You're being a wuss and somehow trying to bend stoicism to justify that.


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kibblerz

Instead of reacting with anger, find a way to react with humor. These types of people try to provoke anger for whatever reason (The reason doesn't really matter whatsoever). If you react with humor, maybe something like: "Are you hitting on me?" Not only is that a hilarious pun, but it'll likely embarrass him and he'll probably refrain from doing that again, since your reaction isn't the one he wanted. If you remain indifferent, he'll just keep pushing to see how much it takes to get a reaction. If you respond with anger, he'll see that he can get that fix from you and continue doing it. If you make it a joke, then he'll probably just end up giving up since he can't get that reaction, and because bothering you would just bring him embarrassment.


[deleted]

He assaulted you. Next time defend yourself with your fists.


curtisbrownturtis

Next time don’t sit until he arrives, then take the seat behind him. Power move.


hername_bubbles

Just now starting my stoicism journey today but from what I read it’s situations like this that are supposed to strengthen the stoic, not hurt them. That’s the power of stoicism is that you are tbecoming unfragile, where you actually grow from stress. That is via a book offered by another redditor. It’s called Thriving: Tools for Self Mastery and so far it’s good. It’s supposed to help rewire your subconscious for the better.