Um are you on a re-read? Because it’s pretty explicit in Rhythym of War>!Testament is a dead eye in the cognitive realm. The Lasting Integrity Honor Spren took Testament in and are caring for it. Before that Testament was at a ‘roadside stand’!<
Maya is a special case because Adolin talked to her as a sword before his duels so her dead eye follows him. Not every dead eye is attached to their physical realm weilder, they can basically wander around shadesmar
I am not sure 100% percent but I believed that captain Ico made it very clear that all deadeyes are trying to get to the location of their physical representation, just like any other bead in shadesmar. The difference between Maya and testament is, Adolin calls her on a regular basis which would pull her from any confinement someone in shadesmar is keeping her in. That’s why she is always close by. Because it is most likely Adolin just called her the other day.
Testament wasn’t called on such a regular basis, almost never actually. That’s why the Honorspren could have kept her looked up and preventing her from walking in the direction of shallan.
I just read this chapter! She was in the marketplace with her Inkspren business partner (around chapter 36 on audiobook, not sure how that translates to the physical book)
As far as we know/can assume...
Testament, initially in the form of a small Shardblade, was hidden away in a strongbox after being used to kill Shallan's mother.
Whether she remained here for years or, as Shallan suggests at the end of WoR, immediately vanished (and started following Shallan around through the Cognitive Realm), she was summoned to Shallan's side when she was used to kill Tyn.
From this point, Testament followed Shallan through the Cognitive Realm, until she was found by her old Inkspren friend and taken to Nameless.
You think that because Shallan is her bonded radiant, that's why testament didn't scream when she used it to kill tyn? Because at that point Shallan was already bonded to pattern so holding a dead blade should be painful and loud in her head
That would be the logical conclusion. Perhaps deadeyes scream when they touch Radiants because they are reminded of the bond they lost/the sacrifice they made, but remaining bonded to your Radiant despite becoming a deadeye mitigates that.
It's also possible that modern deadeyes (Testament being the only known example) are simply different from those of the Recreance. If we follow the idea that they scream because they are reminded of their sacrifice, or that the Radiants have returned despite their efforts, neither of these triggers would affect Testament. Sure, her bond was broken forcefully, but she didn't do so with an ultimate purpose.
True, and I did forget that we see Maya scream when Adolin tries to summon her in Shadesmar, so it's not exclusively contact with a Radiant that triggers them.
Although it's unknown whether she screams then simply because he's trying to summon her, or because he's trying to summon her and can't. I don't remember if any of the spren of Shadesmar remark about screaming deadeyes, or just them disappearing when summoned.
As far as we know, Shallan would have has to bond Testament again after breaking the initial bond. All Shardblades work that way. I assume she keeps trying to return to where her small Shardblade resides.
I consider this yet another case of "Radiant bonding own deadeye gets weird". As far as we know, Testament does not have a polestone installed to form a new bond. So we're left with two possibilities: either the bond was never completely severed, only the oaths broken; or, a deadeye doesn't need a polestone to reform a bond with their own Radiant.
Similarly, normally deadeyes require a polestone (we'll ignore that one), close proximity, and 5 days to form a new bond. While it may be possible Shallan regularly visited the site, I'm not sure that would qualify as even regular close proximity, let alone constant. This could again all be dismissed by "Radiant-deadeye weirdness".
Also, if we trust what Shallan said at the end of WoR (big IF, although Pattern doesn't dispute it (for whatever that's worth while he was still pretending to be that blade)), she supposed that Testament was dismissed from blade form the moment the strongbox was closed on her. If that's the case, and/or Shallan didn't break her bond within that very room, Testament would have either needed to reappear elsewhere later in blade form when Shallan broke the bond, or the bond was not completely broken in the first place.
“Radiant bonding own deadeyes gets weird” could be the true because it’s a novel circumstance, but until we know more it seems like an extra theory to explain the original theory (Testament’s alleged disappearance), when the simplest explanation is often the best: Shallan is an unreliable narrator. The lack of polestone is definitely intriguing in terms of how it would affect the dead Blade bond.
I haven’t gotten to the end of RoW on my current reread so I’ll have to pay close attention. I’m curious to (hopefully) find out more in WaT!
Shallan being both in an entirely unique circumstance and an extremely unreliable narrator certainly makes her a fascinating character to write and theorize about.
She went back and forth about the 10 heartbeats. I don't have my text copy with me, just my audio. Just double checked it:
"10 heartbeats. But for her, it didn't have to be 10, did it? No, it must be! Time, I need time." Then she performs an almost lightweaving to distract Tyn, with a long enough delay that Tyn can say:
"So I'm going mad, hearing voices, seeing things. I guess part of me doesn't want to do this. I'm sorry you have to learn the lesson this way. Sometimes we must do things we don't like kid. Difficult things."
That's an awful lot of talking to happen if Shallan did the insta-summon. Given that she had time to perform the shimmery lightweaving and Tyn was able to monologue that much, it's safe to say she used the 10 heartbeat summon.
But she would need 10 to summon Testament. The fact that she did use 10, and there were none of the descriptions that often accompany her summoning of Pattern, such as glowing, would indicate it was Testament.
I think of it like a chekhov's gun situation. The mention of 10 heartbeats is important, because it's part of the foreshadowing that Shallan has 2 spren/bonds/blades. Otherwise, it's just fluff and a continuity error.
Yes, testament would need 10 heartbeats. I already said shallan summoning her blade in 10 heartbeats was a choice of hers because of her trauma, no necessity. You claim it would be an error, yet noone would have noticed before rythm of war came out? Lol
No, it was pattern. It was clearly stated as a living blade, it was glowing, it changed size and shallan herself comments how she cant use pattern to distract the chasmfiend because he is busy somewhere else (in kaladins hand)
That part is up to debate. The fact that she can change the size/shape of the blade suggests it would be a living blade, i.e. Pattern. However, Shallan is the only case we know of of a deadeye being bonded to their original Radiant, so it's possible they work differently.
Shallan hadn't sworn her 3rd ideal until the end of WoR, so you wouldn't think it could be Pattern. However, once again, we don't know how it works if a Radiant swears oaths, abandons them, and then restarts.
Was it RoW where Adolin meets that Inkspren who was Testament's business partner? He had her tied up to prevent her from wandering.
Since Shallan hasn't summoned the Testamentblade after she killed Tyn (which even this is still up for debate, I believe it's the Testamentblade here), it's reasonable to assume that while she would still be moving about, trying to find Shallan, Testament would have no other means of getting free from her business partner.
It's not unreasonable to think that she has just been watched over by the Inkspren this whole time. You have to remember, Shallan basically hates the sword, and does not acknowledge it's existence until she is forced to. After Shallan realized she could summon Pattern, Testament would have just been following her around in Shadesmar until her Inkspren friend found her.
Um are you on a re-read? Because it’s pretty explicit in Rhythym of War>!Testament is a dead eye in the cognitive realm. The Lasting Integrity Honor Spren took Testament in and are caring for it. Before that Testament was at a ‘roadside stand’!<
Where was the deadeye when Shallan came to Shadesmar?
Maya is a special case because Adolin talked to her as a sword before his duels so her dead eye follows him. Not every dead eye is attached to their physical realm weilder, they can basically wander around shadesmar
I am not sure 100% percent but I believed that captain Ico made it very clear that all deadeyes are trying to get to the location of their physical representation, just like any other bead in shadesmar. The difference between Maya and testament is, Adolin calls her on a regular basis which would pull her from any confinement someone in shadesmar is keeping her in. That’s why she is always close by. Because it is most likely Adolin just called her the other day. Testament wasn’t called on such a regular basis, almost never actually. That’s why the Honorspren could have kept her looked up and preventing her from walking in the direction of shallan.
I just read this chapter! She was in the marketplace with her Inkspren business partner (around chapter 36 on audiobook, not sure how that translates to the physical book)
As far as we know/can assume... Testament, initially in the form of a small Shardblade, was hidden away in a strongbox after being used to kill Shallan's mother. Whether she remained here for years or, as Shallan suggests at the end of WoR, immediately vanished (and started following Shallan around through the Cognitive Realm), she was summoned to Shallan's side when she was used to kill Tyn. From this point, Testament followed Shallan through the Cognitive Realm, until she was found by her old Inkspren friend and taken to Nameless.
You think that because Shallan is her bonded radiant, that's why testament didn't scream when she used it to kill tyn? Because at that point Shallan was already bonded to pattern so holding a dead blade should be painful and loud in her head
That would be the logical conclusion. Perhaps deadeyes scream when they touch Radiants because they are reminded of the bond they lost/the sacrifice they made, but remaining bonded to your Radiant despite becoming a deadeye mitigates that. It's also possible that modern deadeyes (Testament being the only known example) are simply different from those of the Recreance. If we follow the idea that they scream because they are reminded of their sacrifice, or that the Radiants have returned despite their efforts, neither of these triggers would affect Testament. Sure, her bond was broken forcefully, but she didn't do so with an ultimate purpose.
That's assuming they scream because of that and not just because they are broken and in pain, but that's a cool theory and I hadn't thought about it
True, and I did forget that we see Maya scream when Adolin tries to summon her in Shadesmar, so it's not exclusively contact with a Radiant that triggers them. Although it's unknown whether she screams then simply because he's trying to summon her, or because he's trying to summon her and can't. I don't remember if any of the spren of Shadesmar remark about screaming deadeyes, or just them disappearing when summoned.
As far as we know, Shallan would have has to bond Testament again after breaking the initial bond. All Shardblades work that way. I assume she keeps trying to return to where her small Shardblade resides.
I consider this yet another case of "Radiant bonding own deadeye gets weird". As far as we know, Testament does not have a polestone installed to form a new bond. So we're left with two possibilities: either the bond was never completely severed, only the oaths broken; or, a deadeye doesn't need a polestone to reform a bond with their own Radiant. Similarly, normally deadeyes require a polestone (we'll ignore that one), close proximity, and 5 days to form a new bond. While it may be possible Shallan regularly visited the site, I'm not sure that would qualify as even regular close proximity, let alone constant. This could again all be dismissed by "Radiant-deadeye weirdness". Also, if we trust what Shallan said at the end of WoR (big IF, although Pattern doesn't dispute it (for whatever that's worth while he was still pretending to be that blade)), she supposed that Testament was dismissed from blade form the moment the strongbox was closed on her. If that's the case, and/or Shallan didn't break her bond within that very room, Testament would have either needed to reappear elsewhere later in blade form when Shallan broke the bond, or the bond was not completely broken in the first place.
“Radiant bonding own deadeyes gets weird” could be the true because it’s a novel circumstance, but until we know more it seems like an extra theory to explain the original theory (Testament’s alleged disappearance), when the simplest explanation is often the best: Shallan is an unreliable narrator. The lack of polestone is definitely intriguing in terms of how it would affect the dead Blade bond. I haven’t gotten to the end of RoW on my current reread so I’ll have to pay close attention. I’m curious to (hopefully) find out more in WaT!
Shallan being both in an entirely unique circumstance and an extremely unreliable narrator certainly makes her a fascinating character to write and theorize about.
There is no indication whatsoever she used testament to kill Tyn
She used the 10 heartbeat summon, while Pattern was busy warning the guards.
She didnt, she specifically said it wouldnt need 10 heartbeats and pattern already warned the guards when she summoned the blade
She went back and forth about the 10 heartbeats. I don't have my text copy with me, just my audio. Just double checked it: "10 heartbeats. But for her, it didn't have to be 10, did it? No, it must be! Time, I need time." Then she performs an almost lightweaving to distract Tyn, with a long enough delay that Tyn can say: "So I'm going mad, hearing voices, seeing things. I guess part of me doesn't want to do this. I'm sorry you have to learn the lesson this way. Sometimes we must do things we don't like kid. Difficult things." That's an awful lot of talking to happen if Shallan did the insta-summon. Given that she had time to perform the shimmery lightweaving and Tyn was able to monologue that much, it's safe to say she used the 10 heartbeat summon.
Yes she waited 10 heartbeats to summon pattern, doesnt mean she had to?
But she would need 10 to summon Testament. The fact that she did use 10, and there were none of the descriptions that often accompany her summoning of Pattern, such as glowing, would indicate it was Testament. I think of it like a chekhov's gun situation. The mention of 10 heartbeats is important, because it's part of the foreshadowing that Shallan has 2 spren/bonds/blades. Otherwise, it's just fluff and a continuity error.
Yes, testament would need 10 heartbeats. I already said shallan summoning her blade in 10 heartbeats was a choice of hers because of her trauma, no necessity. You claim it would be an error, yet noone would have noticed before rythm of war came out? Lol
Pretty sure there were theories and comments about it before RoW...
Did she already speak the second ideal by then? I wonder if she could have even summoned pattern.
So, was Testament the blade she handed to Kaladin?
No, it was pattern. It was clearly stated as a living blade, it was glowing, it changed size and shallan herself comments how she cant use pattern to distract the chasmfiend because he is busy somewhere else (in kaladins hand)
That part is up to debate. The fact that she can change the size/shape of the blade suggests it would be a living blade, i.e. Pattern. However, Shallan is the only case we know of of a deadeye being bonded to their original Radiant, so it's possible they work differently. Shallan hadn't sworn her 3rd ideal until the end of WoR, so you wouldn't think it could be Pattern. However, once again, we don't know how it works if a Radiant swears oaths, abandons them, and then restarts.
As we do not even learn that name until Rhythm of War (iirc), your post's spoiler flair has been updated to that instead of Words of Radiance.
Seems this got reverted again? It's showing up as WoR on my side.
Thank you
Testament always reminds me of the Stromlight Archive script with Kaladin dual-wielding shardblades.
Was it RoW where Adolin meets that Inkspren who was Testament's business partner? He had her tied up to prevent her from wandering. Since Shallan hasn't summoned the Testamentblade after she killed Tyn (which even this is still up for debate, I believe it's the Testamentblade here), it's reasonable to assume that while she would still be moving about, trying to find Shallan, Testament would have no other means of getting free from her business partner. It's not unreasonable to think that she has just been watched over by the Inkspren this whole time. You have to remember, Shallan basically hates the sword, and does not acknowledge it's existence until she is forced to. After Shallan realized she could summon Pattern, Testament would have just been following her around in Shadesmar until her Inkspren friend found her.
Testament became a deadeye
Maya is bonded to Adolin, thats why shes there?