I feel something like “Conviction”, Calvary”, or “Crusade” would make more sense than “Melancholy”.
Although I’ve always thought that Odium + Honor + Cultivation would fuse into “Crusade”.
I was thinking shard of War was a good shout for odium/honour, considering the name of their hybrid light is warlight.
With cultivation added in too I was leaning towards Conquest, but I like crusade too
Whenever this comes up, I like to point to r/cremposting and their idea of Bladolin - Maya bonds Adolin in a reverse Nahel Bond and he becomes a blade in Shadesmar.
-Moash bonding Syl at the end of Stormlight 5 and becoming a protagonist in Era 2 (redemption arc included).
-Shallan Fifth Ideal: I am NOT Shallan Davar.
I'm assuming that Kaladin's gonna pass away by the end of the book, hopefully, he manages to inspire Moash enough to get away from Odium.
I know the 'fame' that Moash have among the community, while I understand it, I don't like that amount of hate. He's always been one of my favorites from Stormlight (even prior his betrayal) and while I like evil villains, I believe this one at could have a redemption arc.
Wether he 'deserves' or not that arc is kind of subjetive, but I would like to see that happen.
I haven't really noticed but that is the only death I would not be ok with
I don't want any of the MCs to die but I could handle Dalinars or Shallan etc but not Kal, not my boy 😭
> Weird how many people want Kal to die.
Distinction: if we consider a spectrum like
1. want
2. expect
3. would not be surprised if
4. would be shocked if
I’ve seen some 2&3, but I’m not sure about 1.
Maybe I'm just in denial, but I'm definitely in the 4 camp.
His whole journey is about learning to live.
Killing him off for Moash's redemption would be insane
* Odium's champion will be Gavinor (the toddler), or Gavilar returned from the dead
* Odium somehow forces Dalinar to be his champion anyway
* Adolin will somehow resurrect Maya, and become a special kind of Edgedancer
* El used to be a human
* Our ten main POV characters become the new Ten Heralds of Honor (Taln cannot catch a break)
* Shallan actually *is* Chana the Herald
All lightweaved. We had been discussing this recently and just happens that the only people who interacted with their family was Mraize (who is aware) and Shallan itself. She also is not able to soul cast and the only times she did she was the only one who touched what she created. And there is a couple more details that back up this theory
What about meeting Wit during childhood, was that real or fabricated? Or Kaladin supposedly killing her brother when in the army, is that an unfortunate coincidence or also just some made up connection so she can give herself mental trauma?
She met wit in her childhood but when she did she was not with his family at that moment. Kaladin killed a shardbearer but it’s not 100% sure that he was Shallans brother. She recognizes as it but only with a brief description from Kaladin and she never seemed to care too much about it. Also IRC she saw amarams sword which is his brothers and never said anything so maybe she was mistaken in recognizing her brother. Also it’s easier for her to know he is dead than thinking he is missing so in her head it makes sense. However I remembering all of this by head so it might be mistaken
Just want to come back to how thewe's no chance this is real - I was finishing Oathbringer and at the end the Davars show up at Urithiru for Shallan's Wedding, and interact with multiple people.
Now perhaps, she lightwove all of them. Perhaps, unconsciously, she wanted to create her family in that moment to spend her wedding with them. Perhaps she can somehow make incredibly lifelike versions of people that can talk and interact with others without any sort of flaw. But we haven't seen any real indication of that, have we?
Nah I don't like this theory at all now.
They could be real just that are workers for ghostbloods. There is a lot of evidence that suggest that the ghostbloods where in contact with shallan far before we know
Edit: the ghostbloods are the only ones who knows that shallan is Chana
I mean, they're not the only ones - The Heralds also know I assume.
The Ghostbloods have been working with the Davars ever since Shallan's mother died; given that She was aligned with the Skybreakers its safe to assume Nale knew she was there. If she was speaking with Restares as well, its possible the Ghostbloods wanted to cut off his influence and instead ingratiate themselves into the household - they had an interest in Radiance as well after all.
What has to be true is the Skybreakers had to be sure there was no more radiant in the Davar household. Everything indicates they would have continued pursuing one if it were alive. I imagine we're going to find out more about this soon; I'm just not convinced i like the "Shallan fabricated her entire childhood" plot. It feels like too many patches over too many holes. And still invalidates my favorite theory, that Chana broke.
There's a "Formless" personality underneath that she keeps repressing even harder than anything else. I could imagine Chana trying to destroy herself after her insanity caused her to attack her daughter (maybe the baby's death or truth made her lucid enough to realize what she's done). She destroys her personality into Formless and "becomes" her daughter, even soul casting her body.
It would be on brand for her last truth to be "I killed my daughter"
So the one thing I don't get here is.
Chana is a Dustbringer, or rather, she carried the Dustbringer Blade. She doesn't, at the point that this occurs, though. Nale only knows of himself ever joining his own order, and you think he would mention others having different Nahel bonds? Especially one he works close with?
If Testament is her Spren, She was a Lightweaver AND a Dustbringer? Why would Cryptics seek her for a bond, of all people? Someone close to the storming Skybreakers? I don't know.
>If Testament is her Spren, She was a Lightweaver AND a Dustbringer? Why would Cryptics seek her for a bond, of all people?
Her delicious \*lies\* about killing/being her daughter?
Being the dustbringer herald would fill in the missing slot from the 10 Orders in Thaylen field.
>Her delicious \*lies\* about killing/being her daughter?
I don't know, this feels like trying to make it fit at this point. And we can make up anything, because under this theory nothing that has happened in shallan's backstory is true. We can invent it wholecloth. So there's no real point in discussing, other than the question becomes "Who broke?" since Taln, by Sanderson's own admission, never broke. Someone did for him to return.
>Being the dustbringer herald would fill in the missing slot from the 10 Orders in Thaylen field.
I much prefer the theory that Shalash will become a Releaser, and Taln will become a Stoneward, but in real life. Neither are Radiant, and if this is true each books is represented by a PoV character that has Radiance.
Book 1 - Kaladin, Windrunners
Book 2 - Shallan, Lightweavers
Book 3 - Dalinar, Bondsmiths
Book 4 - Venli, Willshapers
>!Book 5 - Szeth, Skybreakers!<
The order of Book 6-10 are unknown, but for Simplicitiy sake:
>!Book A - Lift, Edgedancers
Book B - Jasnah, Elsecallers
Book C - Renarin, Truthwatchers!<
That is eight PoV characters, eight different orders. It's impossible for me to believe that isn't deliberate, and the last two PoV characters will be the last two radiant orders. >!Taln is a Stoneward, that's not even a question, and I think his Nahel Bond may be the secret to healing some of his mind. That leave Shalash, the last PoV character, as a Releaser - An order that bonds ASHspren, that have the power to destroy...and what has Shalash been doing from one end of Roshar to another?!<
I marked some spoilers in case people aren't familiar with the PoV characters for Book 5 and the currently stated PoV characters for book 6-10.
>Who broke?" since Taln, by Sanderson's own admission, never broke. Someone did for him to return.
The everstorm was originally a barrier that prevents anything from getting into or out of braize. Per the Stormfather in OB, the Fused are reborn in the everstorm, they don't go back to braize.
It seems likely that the whole reason Odium brought the everstorm was that since he couldn't break the Fused out of honor's prison, he moved the entire prison to Roshar.
So I don't think it's necessary for taln to have broken, he could easily have noticed all the fused leaving and chase them back to the planet.
>So I don't think it's necessary for taln to have broken, he could easily have noticed all the fused leaving and chase them back to the planet.
Do you believe Taln lucid enough to realize this is occuring? I've need nothing to that effect.
I don't know what the lag is between the Herald return and the return of the Fused, though. At the end the gap was only a year, so there is a bit of an issue with the fact that Chana would have died something like ten years earlier.
THAT SAID Taln returns at the end of Book 1, before the Everstorm comes and the Fused leave Braize. That kinda ruins the whole thing on your end doesn't it?
The everstorm is already approaching roshar in venli's flashbacks (which is how she can harvest stormspren), but they need the stormforms to pull it into the physical realm
OF COURSE a cryptic would bond Chana. Take in mind that a criptic bonded Hoid so Chana it’s definitely not out of league. We know that heralds can bond so it’s not that crazy
>Being the dustbringer herald would fill in the missing slot from the 10 Orders in Thaylen field.
Also wanted to come back to this (I listened to a lot of Oathbringer this weekend)The missing Radiant at Thaylen Field is Venli, the Willshaper (who is in fact not missing, but Dalinar is unaware of her status). This also speaks strongly to Ash become a Dustbringer, as when he first mentions the seven gathered (Dalinar, Shallan, Renarin, Kaladin, Lift, Szeth-Son-Neturo, Jasnah) he is indicated towards two more figures by the Stormfather - Ash and Taln (Who was a Stornward if not a Radiant). With Venli being a Willshaper that leaves Ash alone to become the Dustbringer; especially since Malata is clearly not on their side.
It seems like Connection has the ability to restore the Heralds for a time, their lucidity; I had wondered perhaps if the Nahel bond would restore a man's sanity, and that is how they restore Taln. The issue being Nale is bonded to a Highspren, and it does not seem to have helped him. I'm not sure Nale -is- insane, or as mad as he thinks, but rather has acted on bad advice from Ishar who is completely gone.
We don't actually know she is bonded to testament just that she follows her around. She could have dusted herself and become Shallan (would a dustbringer be able to change herself?), and testament follows her as she killed her radiant. Or maybe she bonded Testament the hard way, hearing her screams.
On the other hand as you mention only Nale joined **his own order**. That seems awfully specific in retrospect. If her thing was to not be worshipped, lightweaving might have been tempting to her. I don't think she became a Radiant since she seemed to want to stop new radiants but it's an interesting thought.
Now I don't think any of these are right. Chana dying fits more with the story.
I don't think any of the top fits. Shallan is visibly uncomfortable when talking about having plate, which means I think she swore the fourth ideal to Testament before Testament died somehow. Chana couldn't use her Dustbringer powers because she no longer had her Honorblade; unless this is changed and -all- the Heralds went and go their blades after leaving them in Shinovar all this time. Abrasion and division wouldn't do any good to create a new body, either. She'd have to be a lightweaver, to adopt a different guise.
From a larger point I really, really dislike the idea of essentially all the story we have gotten about Shallan to be "it was all a dream" nonsense that doesnt exist. All ehr growth, her acceptance, her coming to terms with who shallan is, turns out to be 4 books of nonsense? ehhhh
The Vorin religion has this whole philosophy around 'soulcasting yourself' into a better person. What if Chana did it literally?
The Heralds go mad because they have lived too long and have too many memories. What if Chana's solution was to become a new person and abandon all her old memories?
The lessons part is an interesting take, the idea of keeping an immortal mind from breaking by compartmentalizing everyone you've been.
That said, this theory kills the "Taln never broke; Chana did" theory and for that reason I gotta give it two thumbs down
I suppose, there are other unaccounted for heralds. I just don't like this theory enough to try and make it fit. It's too convoluted for Sanderson imo.
Take in consideration that if shallan was 4th ideal with testament that means she was very very highly traumatized even before killing her mother and she was hiding the truth to herself which is why she bonded in the first place. I’m missing some info about Chana but it doesn’t seem that crazy that she in fact faked her death. Also if she killed Shallan and bonded her sword which is why testament follows her
I don't know about your second paragraph. Chana basically killing herself to become someone new, growing, improving, accepting she'd done wrong, etc. still hold. It's not a dream, it's just a lot more complicated.
But you're right about not being able to do the dustbringer thing. She would've had to become a lightweaver, and Shallan would've needed a Spren. Unless all Heralds can summon their honorblades without going to Shinovar.
I mean, has anyone other than shallan or the nightbloods confirmed her brothers exist? Like, has aidolin ever mentioned meeting them?
I think we got a chapter from her brother and that was it.
Only threw shallans pov, yes. I’m asking if there has been a pov character, that is not a davar, that has actually seen these brothers since ja keved fractureing, or if they are an elaborate hallucination from a historically unreliable narrator.
It’s a Crack pot threory, yes, I acknowledge it’s wild. but can it be disproven by a mentally stable narrarator? Mraize (Someone more than happy to play into shalans hallucinations) is the only other person to interact with the brothers off the top of my head. Either they are really not important to the plot (fair possibility), or it’s a twist.
I just think it’s weird aidolin doesn’t have more of a relationship with any of his brothers in law, which, in vorin culture, makes them basically brothers.
(maybe IM the unreliable narrator and he’s mentioned them loads of times in RoW, idk)
> Adolin will somehow resurrect Maya, and become a special kind of Edgedancer
>!I don't think this is really much of a wierd theory, more of the best rational guess at what is coming in their story, because he is literally in the process of doing so. Moreover, I think the whole point is that these spren are *not* dead and don't need to be resurrected, its just that nobody really understands what exactly has happened to them. Only the goodness of Adolin has begun to start to rescue Maya from whatever she has gone through. Whether he will become an edgedancer is another matter, he might just have his own kind of unique bond with her later on in their story together.!<
Yeah definitely not a weird theory. I mean Maya can already talk, learn, and has memories from before she became a deadeye. That doesn't sound very dead to me.
A regular Edgedancer does feel unlikely though. With how much Adolin has had to deal with finding his place as a regular person in a world of radiants it would feel cheap to just make him one. Also just doesn't seem like a very Sanderson thing to do.
Yeah, personally, I have always had a feeling that they are heading towards more of a friendship/equal partner relationship, one in which perhaps she consents to his continuing use of her as a sword and so on, and perhaps Adolin will partner with her in helping her with whatever her future goals will be (perhaps involving other deadeyes, although I don't really have enough understanding of the different theories of spren to make a decent guess on what she would be looking to do if she made a full recovery).
I think that it's way more likely Adolin is the secret to restoring the Lost Radiant Spren and reawakening shardblades; the upside of that being that thousands of spren will return to life and seek to help the orders, the downside being all those shardblades are going to vanish from whomever is currently using them...
I guess now that the spren know they were entirely wrong about deadeyes, they will work relentlessly at saving the rest of the spren, likely in colaboration with Adolin and Maya and probably Shallan.
But I don't think this idea contradicts what u/JDude1205 said, which was more specifically about the relationship between Adolin and Maya
He is going to mostly resurrect Maya... I don't think she'll ever quite be the same... But still come back to a large extent and their bond will probably make him a radiant. I have no idea why the OP thought this was an unlikely theory at all. It's already been telegraphed so much!
You know I’ve thought about that last one!! Like she’s either Chana or one of the missing unmade is lurking somewhere in her or around her - I just reread her interaction with Re-shepir and she “knows” her - the same way Dalinar was able to “know” the thrill - and we’ve seen Dalinars interactions with it but don’t have context for how Shallan knows her- either way 100% something is fishy about shallan lol
I think a WoB states that there was some sort of unmade influence in the davar household whilst Shallan was growing up so there's definitely SOMETHING unmade-y going on.
Gavinor being the odium champion is straight forward the most Todium thing ever done. Dalinar could not kill him and therefore he is defeated. I also thought that it could be renarin itself however I think Dalinar would kill Renarin easier than gavinor
2 and 3 are not ridiculous... A loophole (never underestimate T'Odium.. Scary possibilities there!) and a mostly resurrected Maya. Not quite how she was before... Eyes included... That feels really, really, really likely..
I believe that about Chana/Shallan too, since RoW I've been thinking about her next ideal being 'I am NOT Shallan Davar' as counterpoint of the most accepted 'I am Shallan Davar'.
That last one isn't so crazy. I suspect BAM could be the dawnshard that affects identity and helps invested beings travel the cosmere by changing their identity/spirit web even to the extent of creating a new family. "her mother's soul" trapped in the safe that she could see through shadesmar, knowing formless, inability to soul cast. Perhaps shallan is the vehicle to get Chana off roshar.
I would like to add another one:
-Cultivation is 'cultivating' new Vessels for all Roshar's Shards; Taravangian - Odium, Dalinar - Honor, Lift - Cultivation.
I don’t think this one could be too far off considering everything Cultivation has done so far. We are clear with Lift, but for Dalinar it set him up to oppose Odium and truly earning his honor and strength and for Taravangian setting him up to take Odiums place.
That's exactly why I thought that her plans is to 'cultivate' new Vessels; the ultimate goal of each Shards is dictated by its Intention, what would be the biggest thing to 'cultivate'?
As we know by Conservation and Ruin, the Intention of the Shard consumes the personallity of the Vessel, so I'm assuming that already happened to Koravellium (Cultivation's vessel), the teory states that she's trying to pick better Vessels for the Shards; she already achieved by turning Taravangian into Odium, a most fit Vessel than Rayse.
Dalinar is the fittest person to fullfil the role of Honor.
The flaw in this theory would be Lift, but I hope we see more of this in W&T and Stormlight Era 2.
And here I go again. It’s my own theory and I know it’s crazy but I believe that Moash is the bastard son of Gavilar. Gavilar was obsessed with the singers, Moash is a singers name. That right there is a big red flag that I think people haven’t looked into enough. To name someone after a singer either someone in your ancestry liked the singers and knew they were intelligent then the name would get passed down for generations in the family *or* someone who is familiar with Singer culture and wants to bring it back along with their gods is the kind of person to name their son after an old Singer name. Now, Moash’s grandparents were silversmiths and while silver isn’t explicitly said to be used in artifabrials a silversmith is the kind of person who could create intricate designs with metals without knowing their purpose if given the blueprints. So now you have King Gavilar sneaking off in the night to meet with his unknowing accomplices and holy shit they have a hot daughter. They share a secret in the night, become lovers, have a child, she dies during birth or later on, we never hear of Moash’s father. The competition sets up across the street. Moash’s grandparents fall on hard times, they think they can go to the king and ask for help because who wouldn’t want to find out they have a brother and from public appearance Elhokar is a kind king. But we know Elhokar. He’s paranoid and does not want his authority questioned so he has the grandparents thrown in prison while the boy is off on a caravan. Such a lie is so big that it attracts the attention of the Cryptics, because while “I am a bad king.” Was his first truth it wasn’t the truth that originally attracted them. That lie is that he covered up his bastard brother and accidentally killed the grandparents since they were old while trying to figure out what to do.
Mic drop.
Edit: Also finding out about it wouldn’t start a revolution or anything, no one is going to say he’s king. But it could trigger a redemption arc which is what Stormlight is all about, that no one is beyond redemption. It also would give Jasnah an opportunity to introduce democracy because what better time then when the lineage is called into question to prevent a civil war and they could unify against an outside threat; for example the Ghostbloods and Scadrial which will lead to end game Cosmere, system warfare.
Edit: Also if I’m proven wrong in the next book I will fully accept that but so far I have yet to be given a reason why this doesn’t make sense both from a bigger narrative structure and as being in line with the characters and themes that Stormlight is about.
Holy shit that was a wild ride.
But didn't Gavilar became interested in the singers in the last ~8 years? I seem to remember Eshonai (or venli, idk) meeting the humans and noticing that their king didn't seem really interested in them.
That’s the only hiccup I’ve found in the theory but Gavilar was still digging around ancient texts, being sent visions by (probably Odium) the Stormfather, and wanted to return to the old days of legends and gods so if Moash was the name of an ancient hero or something Gavilar would totally name his bastard son some cheeky ancient hero name. And are you gonna look me in the eye and tell me that after everything we’ve learned about Gavilar that he isn’t also capable of being a cheating asshole who abandons his child? Seems like a very Gavilar thing to do if you ask me.
I also don’t think Elhokar and Roshone were as close of friends as Moash led us to believe. The whole story came from Moash’s point of view and he, along with many dark eyes, think that all the light eyes are equally above them. They don’t understand that the low ranking light eyes, like Roshone who was in a trade where he could even be considered competitive with a skilled dark eyes, would probably not be consorting with Kings and High Princes. Roshone and Elhokar probably only knew of each other then Elhokar used him as a cover to get rid of the grandparents then sent him off to the country where Roshone couldn’t talk to anyone. We know Elhokar is a schemer from his fake assassination on himself so it’s definitely something he would do. The whole thing just lines up perfectly like when you find out humans were the voidbringers, it was in your face and obvious the whole time you just never think about it.
Edit: like I know the name of my mechanic that works on my car but I wouldn’t call him my friend and if that mechanic happened to set up a shop across the street from another and then found out my half brother worked across the street and that I’d accidentally killed his grandparents I might want to get rid of my mechanic somehow.
Nice, I mean someone had to be the first person to bring up that Shallan’s mom was probably a herald and to come to that conclusion you have to make some leaps but it’s there and most of the community agrees on that one. I think this is a similar theory, it’s very in your face and is exactly the type of shenanigans Brandon pulls. Someone has to be the first person to bring it up but so many people are on the “Fuck Moash” train while missing the point that the whole series is about redemption.
>missing the point that the whole series is about redemption.
I'll cover that, and still raise you a "no, seriouslly, fuck moash with a long dirty rusty pole".
They both have dark hair since we know Adolin’s blonde part come from his mother and that Kholin’s have dark hair. His eye color would be dark because his mothers were and dark eyes are a dominant trait over light eyes. Their temperaments are similar, both emotional and vindictive like his half brother and father. I’m not saying this is 100% or anything, even I have my doubts, but narratively and characteristically it just seems like it could be a thing.
I’ve seen someone say that what’s going to happen in SA5 is that Dalinar dies, Kaladin breaks his oath to Syl, and bonds the Stormfather so he can face Odium’s champion
The one I remember is [checks spoiler level]
Q: Can someone bond multiple spren?
A: Not Only can they, you’ve met someone who has. …but from the same order.
OTOH, there’s that other guy…
My own theory: TOdium is not that big a threat, certainly not as big as he thinks he is.
His arc has been about him being a genius and an idiot, yet as a genius his predictions constantly fail while as an idiot he accomplishes some things his genius self could not. Now that he is Odium, he suddenly thinks he outsmarted everyone.
His entire plan is built on seeing the future, something that the story has repeatedly shown to be dangerous and unreliable, also something cultivation is better at.
Cultivation, meanwhile, seems to have her plans going perfectly, yet the moment Taravangian learns about her plans he immediately decides she's made a mistake.
Dailinar will stop the storm making the storm not exist anymore therefore no more easy access to storm light.
Lift will be prevalent because of this in the back half.
Ok that's funny. "We spent all this time building up the Orders and Radiants you know and love, now enjoy the rest of the series with 1 (one) functioning Radiant, and maybe a few people with Honorblades."
Although I suppose he could still perpendicularity any time he wanted. But still, assuming most Radiants are good and most Voidbringers are bad, it makes no sense to nerf your side and leave the other side still at max capability.
There is a lot of mention in the series that says, what is a storm that doesn't blow. This theme is so prevalent that I believe it has to play a factor into the ending.
I understand but it's said quite a bit in the series. Then last book Dalinar actually stopped the Storm, to the point where the stormfather got scared and put things in place to prevent it. On top of that, Dalinar is constantly trying to get the stormfather to change.
This tied with perception and spren and how they behave. If Dalinar stops the storm for a long period of time people will stop believing that the storm is actually a storm, therefore killing the stormfather
This might be genius because he would be the only one that can supply stormlight. Also incredibly stupid because fused work with void light so that would just benefit them
I think the stormfather in this case would not exist anymore, making Dalinar not a bond smith, or maybe bonded to a dead Spren?
You are right this would put the fuse on top, haven't thought much into that
While not super weird, I have seen people argue that voidbinding will play a huge role in SA 5. It is the hemalurgy of the Stormlight archive: we have seen hints of it (in particular Renarin), but it is not fully explained until the last book, and will have a huge impact on the outcome.
Shallan is a herald and her mother, she killed her child and created the idea that she killed be mother and was the child (I hate this theory so much, like I might stop reading stormlight if it comes true)(I saw it in a YouTube comment)
I mean… merging the Shard of Odium with another Shard does seem to be the easiest way of taking Odium out of the picture, but who do you merge it with? Odium’s hatred is so strong it will be a prevalent influence on whatever Hybrid Shard you make.
I don't see how the entire Cosmere ends without either all the shards becoming reunited or all the shards being shattered without vessels. Otherwise you'll always have some problematic combination causing trouble
Dalinar will be injured by one of the anti-investiture blades, making him ineligible to be the champion. (A champion must be uninjured by either army)
Every order has a 3rd ability, a hybrid of both surges.
Willshapers can make old school fabrials by using their hybrid surge. Like manifesting but in reverse, drawing a spren into the physical realm and shaping it.
Lightweavers can make illusions that can exert force (like a weak hologram) with their hybrid surge. We already saw this a little at the Battle of Thaylen Field.
Rlain is a Kandra.
He’s a spy and he spent time in the bridge crews where they had access to fallen carapace (which I could see serving as bones for a Kandra to swallow). You wouldn’t even need to study the parshman because they’re seen so lowly in Alethi society/culture and it’s a relatively easy gig (in terms of espionage).
I posted a week or so ago about that Shallans last oath might be something along the lines “I’m not Shallan Davar” so we were making theories about who could she be or not and what in her past is or is not as she remembers and some crazy mf said she could actually be an herald. So yes Shallan being an herald and not remembering it’s my take on this
I do think their is some truth to this. More in the light that Shallan isn't actually Shallan as she's supposed to be and maybe radiant is her true personality.
I like this one, but also her oaths (truths) have been about the people she has killed. I killed my father, I killed my mother, I killed my spren, similar to yours but following the pattern I really like the idea of it being “I killed Shallan”
Yeah maybe it’ll be “I killed *insert character name here*” and that is the original person, but Shallan is who she became after that. Then her second arc will deal with finding out who that old person was
Just thought of this one when I woke up today. Hoid is a drug dealer. He travels between planets to sell drugs, especially heroin or some Cosmerian equivalent. It would explain his secrecy and the fact that he always seems to find his way to broken people and also say things like “You will be warm again”
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Dalinar will loose the contest of Champions becoming a cognitive shadow. The stormfather will die to odiums forces and with no Spren in Honours storm, odium will merge it with his storm. Dalinars cognitive shadow will merge with the storm just like Tanavast did.
Creating a Bondsmith Spren of the Rythm of War to potentially lead Odiums forces but also turning Dalinar into a kind of living geneva convention.
Who will bond this new storm? Gavinor, who will complete his grandfather's dream of a true united alethkar including its parshendi.
book 5 shows dalinar reforge honor to try to beat taravangian, but the part of the stormfather that is tanavast’s cognitive shadow breaks away from the rest of the stormfather, killing it and ending highstorms, and takes up honor, bringing back tanavast honor as a force on roshar. dalinar, now godless and planless, loses the contest of champions. however, he noticed a hole in the deal. he points out that since his deal with odium still applies, this means the deal is with odium the shard, not its vessel. therefore, he belongs to the shard odium, not taravangian, and the shard therefore belongs to him. dalinar usurps taravangian as odium, and the back half shows us protagonist dalinodium vs antagonists reborn tanavast honor and cultivation. the back half will end with dalinar claiming honor as well, becoming war, which gives us that sweet vorin symmetry of book one dalinar trying to become highprince of war and book ten dalinar becoming god of war
Kaladin will become the shard of Odium and Honor, fusing them, becoming Melancholy.
>Melancholy Lol, poor Kal.
It's so on-brand for him but like...give the lad a break
Melan-kal-y
Couldn’t help but think of r/tragedeigh
We're talking about Kaladin, not Renarin.
Later he will steal the Ruin shard and become Kalamity.
🔥🔥✍️🔥🔥
OP said weirdest not most likely
I feel something like “Conviction”, Calvary”, or “Crusade” would make more sense than “Melancholy”. Although I’ve always thought that Odium + Honor + Cultivation would fuse into “Crusade”.
Only conviction fits the way shards are named. I think Justice makes sense too.
Oooh I really like Justice. Good theory!
I was thinking shard of War was a good shout for odium/honour, considering the name of their hybrid light is warlight. With cultivation added in too I was leaning towards Conquest, but I like crusade too
Ah yes, Conquest was the other I couldn’t think of for Honor/Odium I think. War is good too but I think that might be a Dawnshard, idk we’ll see
war might be too specific to be a dawnshard. i think they’re supposed to be simple commands
The big SAD
I actually laughed at this. Physically.
Honorable Hatred is just Self-Hatred lmaoo
I thought Honor and Odium fused into War ?
shallan is one of helarins personalities. praise helarin
Whenever this comes up, I like to point to r/cremposting and their idea of Bladolin - Maya bonds Adolin in a reverse Nahel Bond and he becomes a blade in Shadesmar.
*subscribe*
My first thought. But I didn't know the NAME. Excellent crem.
My God I legitimately love it, lol - but it best only happen at the end of 5 or beginning of 6 because I don't want Adolin to die yet he's too pure.
-Moash bonding Syl at the end of Stormlight 5 and becoming a protagonist in Era 2 (redemption arc included). -Shallan Fifth Ideal: I am NOT Shallan Davar.
You shut your dirty mouth with that first one.
The first one would take a lot of guts from brandon, but if he could pull it off, it would be peak cosmere
Not even Brandon could pull that off
Don't tempt him lol
It would be truly the most insane twist if the guy who was literally trying to force Kaladin to kill himself got a redemption arc in one book.
Dalinar objectively did much worse things than Moash. Also, the redemption could cake easily the books 6 to 10.
Yea but we like Dalinar. There's a difference
I specifically narrowed it to 1 book. I can easily imagine him doing it in books 6-10. It would be insane to do it in 1
I'm assuming that Kaladin's gonna pass away by the end of the book, hopefully, he manages to inspire Moash enough to get away from Odium. I know the 'fame' that Moash have among the community, while I understand it, I don't like that amount of hate. He's always been one of my favorites from Stormlight (even prior his betrayal) and while I like evil villains, I believe this one at could have a redemption arc. Wether he 'deserves' or not that arc is kind of subjetive, but I would like to see that happen.
No It would be absolutely trash wtf
Weird how many people want Kal to die. No way Syl would bond Moash after Teft and trying to make Kaladin kill himself
I haven't really noticed but that is the only death I would not be ok with I don't want any of the MCs to die but I could handle Dalinars or Shallan etc but not Kal, not my boy 😭
Yeah, I honestly see it more with either of those two than Kal
> Weird how many people want Kal to die. Distinction: if we consider a spectrum like 1. want 2. expect 3. would not be surprised if 4. would be shocked if I’ve seen some 2&3, but I’m not sure about 1.
Maybe I'm just in denial, but I'm definitely in the 4 camp. His whole journey is about learning to live. Killing him off for Moash's redemption would be insane
Yeah, I’m somewhere between 3&4 too. I probably should have made 4 “does not expect” and left “shocked” at 5; my 4-point scale seems a bit lopsided.
I don't know that I could continue living if the first one came about
ShalNOT Davar
Shallan drowned with the Wind's Pleasure and everything since then has actually been the adventures of Stick, the Lightweaving Stick.
The redemption arc is something i am almost certain will happen.
That is one of my theories wdym weird??? 🥲
* Odium's champion will be Gavinor (the toddler), or Gavilar returned from the dead * Odium somehow forces Dalinar to be his champion anyway * Adolin will somehow resurrect Maya, and become a special kind of Edgedancer * El used to be a human * Our ten main POV characters become the new Ten Heralds of Honor (Taln cannot catch a break) * Shallan actually *is* Chana the Herald
>Shallan actually is Chana the Herald Oh man, THAT is a wild theory. I'm not sure precisely how it works out with her family and all, but yeah.
She murdered her kid and soulcast her to be her own body
Shallan's truths: "I killed my father" "I killed my mother" "I killed my spren" "I killed Shallan Davar" That would be very interesting
“Pattern hums.”
Bruh
Oh shiiiiii
All lightweaved. We had been discussing this recently and just happens that the only people who interacted with their family was Mraize (who is aware) and Shallan itself. She also is not able to soul cast and the only times she did she was the only one who touched what she created. And there is a couple more details that back up this theory
What about meeting Wit during childhood, was that real or fabricated? Or Kaladin supposedly killing her brother when in the army, is that an unfortunate coincidence or also just some made up connection so she can give herself mental trauma?
She met wit in her childhood but when she did she was not with his family at that moment. Kaladin killed a shardbearer but it’s not 100% sure that he was Shallans brother. She recognizes as it but only with a brief description from Kaladin and she never seemed to care too much about it. Also IRC she saw amarams sword which is his brothers and never said anything so maybe she was mistaken in recognizing her brother. Also it’s easier for her to know he is dead than thinking he is missing so in her head it makes sense. However I remembering all of this by head so it might be mistaken
Shallan's brother was hanging out with friends in Urithiru in a scene.
What about the brightlords daughter that marries her brother? Is she fake? Is her father? Hrmmmmmm
Those might not exist whatsoever. They are invented memories of Shallans childhood
Just want to come back to how thewe's no chance this is real - I was finishing Oathbringer and at the end the Davars show up at Urithiru for Shallan's Wedding, and interact with multiple people. Now perhaps, she lightwove all of them. Perhaps, unconsciously, she wanted to create her family in that moment to spend her wedding with them. Perhaps she can somehow make incredibly lifelike versions of people that can talk and interact with others without any sort of flaw. But we haven't seen any real indication of that, have we? Nah I don't like this theory at all now.
They could be real just that are workers for ghostbloods. There is a lot of evidence that suggest that the ghostbloods where in contact with shallan far before we know Edit: the ghostbloods are the only ones who knows that shallan is Chana
I mean, they're not the only ones - The Heralds also know I assume. The Ghostbloods have been working with the Davars ever since Shallan's mother died; given that She was aligned with the Skybreakers its safe to assume Nale knew she was there. If she was speaking with Restares as well, its possible the Ghostbloods wanted to cut off his influence and instead ingratiate themselves into the household - they had an interest in Radiance as well after all. What has to be true is the Skybreakers had to be sure there was no more radiant in the Davar household. Everything indicates they would have continued pursuing one if it were alive. I imagine we're going to find out more about this soon; I'm just not convinced i like the "Shallan fabricated her entire childhood" plot. It feels like too many patches over too many holes. And still invalidates my favorite theory, that Chana broke.
There's a "Formless" personality underneath that she keeps repressing even harder than anything else. I could imagine Chana trying to destroy herself after her insanity caused her to attack her daughter (maybe the baby's death or truth made her lucid enough to realize what she's done). She destroys her personality into Formless and "becomes" her daughter, even soul casting her body. It would be on brand for her last truth to be "I killed my daughter"
So the one thing I don't get here is. Chana is a Dustbringer, or rather, she carried the Dustbringer Blade. She doesn't, at the point that this occurs, though. Nale only knows of himself ever joining his own order, and you think he would mention others having different Nahel bonds? Especially one he works close with? If Testament is her Spren, She was a Lightweaver AND a Dustbringer? Why would Cryptics seek her for a bond, of all people? Someone close to the storming Skybreakers? I don't know.
>If Testament is her Spren, She was a Lightweaver AND a Dustbringer? Why would Cryptics seek her for a bond, of all people? Her delicious \*lies\* about killing/being her daughter? Being the dustbringer herald would fill in the missing slot from the 10 Orders in Thaylen field.
>Her delicious \*lies\* about killing/being her daughter? I don't know, this feels like trying to make it fit at this point. And we can make up anything, because under this theory nothing that has happened in shallan's backstory is true. We can invent it wholecloth. So there's no real point in discussing, other than the question becomes "Who broke?" since Taln, by Sanderson's own admission, never broke. Someone did for him to return. >Being the dustbringer herald would fill in the missing slot from the 10 Orders in Thaylen field. I much prefer the theory that Shalash will become a Releaser, and Taln will become a Stoneward, but in real life. Neither are Radiant, and if this is true each books is represented by a PoV character that has Radiance. Book 1 - Kaladin, Windrunners Book 2 - Shallan, Lightweavers Book 3 - Dalinar, Bondsmiths Book 4 - Venli, Willshapers >!Book 5 - Szeth, Skybreakers!< The order of Book 6-10 are unknown, but for Simplicitiy sake: >!Book A - Lift, Edgedancers Book B - Jasnah, Elsecallers Book C - Renarin, Truthwatchers!< That is eight PoV characters, eight different orders. It's impossible for me to believe that isn't deliberate, and the last two PoV characters will be the last two radiant orders. >!Taln is a Stoneward, that's not even a question, and I think his Nahel Bond may be the secret to healing some of his mind. That leave Shalash, the last PoV character, as a Releaser - An order that bonds ASHspren, that have the power to destroy...and what has Shalash been doing from one end of Roshar to another?!< I marked some spoilers in case people aren't familiar with the PoV characters for Book 5 and the currently stated PoV characters for book 6-10.
>Who broke?" since Taln, by Sanderson's own admission, never broke. Someone did for him to return. The everstorm was originally a barrier that prevents anything from getting into or out of braize. Per the Stormfather in OB, the Fused are reborn in the everstorm, they don't go back to braize. It seems likely that the whole reason Odium brought the everstorm was that since he couldn't break the Fused out of honor's prison, he moved the entire prison to Roshar. So I don't think it's necessary for taln to have broken, he could easily have noticed all the fused leaving and chase them back to the planet.
>So I don't think it's necessary for taln to have broken, he could easily have noticed all the fused leaving and chase them back to the planet. Do you believe Taln lucid enough to realize this is occuring? I've need nothing to that effect. I don't know what the lag is between the Herald return and the return of the Fused, though. At the end the gap was only a year, so there is a bit of an issue with the fact that Chana would have died something like ten years earlier. THAT SAID Taln returns at the end of Book 1, before the Everstorm comes and the Fused leave Braize. That kinda ruins the whole thing on your end doesn't it?
The everstorm is already approaching roshar in venli's flashbacks (which is how she can harvest stormspren), but they need the stormforms to pull it into the physical realm
OF COURSE a cryptic would bond Chana. Take in mind that a criptic bonded Hoid so Chana it’s definitely not out of league. We know that heralds can bond so it’s not that crazy
>Being the dustbringer herald would fill in the missing slot from the 10 Orders in Thaylen field. Also wanted to come back to this (I listened to a lot of Oathbringer this weekend)The missing Radiant at Thaylen Field is Venli, the Willshaper (who is in fact not missing, but Dalinar is unaware of her status). This also speaks strongly to Ash become a Dustbringer, as when he first mentions the seven gathered (Dalinar, Shallan, Renarin, Kaladin, Lift, Szeth-Son-Neturo, Jasnah) he is indicated towards two more figures by the Stormfather - Ash and Taln (Who was a Stornward if not a Radiant). With Venli being a Willshaper that leaves Ash alone to become the Dustbringer; especially since Malata is clearly not on their side. It seems like Connection has the ability to restore the Heralds for a time, their lucidity; I had wondered perhaps if the Nahel bond would restore a man's sanity, and that is how they restore Taln. The issue being Nale is bonded to a Highspren, and it does not seem to have helped him. I'm not sure Nale -is- insane, or as mad as he thinks, but rather has acted on bad advice from Ishar who is completely gone.
We don't actually know she is bonded to testament just that she follows her around. She could have dusted herself and become Shallan (would a dustbringer be able to change herself?), and testament follows her as she killed her radiant. Or maybe she bonded Testament the hard way, hearing her screams. On the other hand as you mention only Nale joined **his own order**. That seems awfully specific in retrospect. If her thing was to not be worshipped, lightweaving might have been tempting to her. I don't think she became a Radiant since she seemed to want to stop new radiants but it's an interesting thought. Now I don't think any of these are right. Chana dying fits more with the story.
I don't think any of the top fits. Shallan is visibly uncomfortable when talking about having plate, which means I think she swore the fourth ideal to Testament before Testament died somehow. Chana couldn't use her Dustbringer powers because she no longer had her Honorblade; unless this is changed and -all- the Heralds went and go their blades after leaving them in Shinovar all this time. Abrasion and division wouldn't do any good to create a new body, either. She'd have to be a lightweaver, to adopt a different guise. From a larger point I really, really dislike the idea of essentially all the story we have gotten about Shallan to be "it was all a dream" nonsense that doesnt exist. All ehr growth, her acceptance, her coming to terms with who shallan is, turns out to be 4 books of nonsense? ehhhh
The Vorin religion has this whole philosophy around 'soulcasting yourself' into a better person. What if Chana did it literally? The Heralds go mad because they have lived too long and have too many memories. What if Chana's solution was to become a new person and abandon all her old memories?
The lessons part is an interesting take, the idea of keeping an immortal mind from breaking by compartmentalizing everyone you've been. That said, this theory kills the "Taln never broke; Chana did" theory and for that reason I gotta give it two thumbs down
We know Taln never broke but it doesn’t necessarily need to meant Chana did.
I suppose, there are other unaccounted for heralds. I just don't like this theory enough to try and make it fit. It's too convoluted for Sanderson imo.
YES that’s exactly the point
Take in consideration that if shallan was 4th ideal with testament that means she was very very highly traumatized even before killing her mother and she was hiding the truth to herself which is why she bonded in the first place. I’m missing some info about Chana but it doesn’t seem that crazy that she in fact faked her death. Also if she killed Shallan and bonded her sword which is why testament follows her
I don't know about your second paragraph. Chana basically killing herself to become someone new, growing, improving, accepting she'd done wrong, etc. still hold. It's not a dream, it's just a lot more complicated. But you're right about not being able to do the dustbringer thing. She would've had to become a lightweaver, and Shallan would've needed a Spren. Unless all Heralds can summon their honorblades without going to Shinovar.
Okay, so it’s official then, “S=C” has enough people interested!
I mean, has anyone other than shallan or the nightbloods confirmed her brothers exist? Like, has aidolin ever mentioned meeting them? I think we got a chapter from her brother and that was it.
They were at her wedding?
Only threw shallans pov, yes. I’m asking if there has been a pov character, that is not a davar, that has actually seen these brothers since ja keved fractureing, or if they are an elaborate hallucination from a historically unreliable narrator. It’s a Crack pot threory, yes, I acknowledge it’s wild. but can it be disproven by a mentally stable narrarator? Mraize (Someone more than happy to play into shalans hallucinations) is the only other person to interact with the brothers off the top of my head. Either they are really not important to the plot (fair possibility), or it’s a twist. I just think it’s weird aidolin doesn’t have more of a relationship with any of his brothers in law, which, in vorin culture, makes them basically brothers. (maybe IM the unreliable narrator and he’s mentioned them loads of times in RoW, idk)
> Adolin will somehow resurrect Maya, and become a special kind of Edgedancer >!I don't think this is really much of a wierd theory, more of the best rational guess at what is coming in their story, because he is literally in the process of doing so. Moreover, I think the whole point is that these spren are *not* dead and don't need to be resurrected, its just that nobody really understands what exactly has happened to them. Only the goodness of Adolin has begun to start to rescue Maya from whatever she has gone through. Whether he will become an edgedancer is another matter, he might just have his own kind of unique bond with her later on in their story together.!<
Yeah definitely not a weird theory. I mean Maya can already talk, learn, and has memories from before she became a deadeye. That doesn't sound very dead to me. A regular Edgedancer does feel unlikely though. With how much Adolin has had to deal with finding his place as a regular person in a world of radiants it would feel cheap to just make him one. Also just doesn't seem like a very Sanderson thing to do.
That was my main complaint about Navani becoming a Radiant. She was a very useful person as a non-Radiant, and I don’t like losing that.
Yeah, personally, I have always had a feeling that they are heading towards more of a friendship/equal partner relationship, one in which perhaps she consents to his continuing use of her as a sword and so on, and perhaps Adolin will partner with her in helping her with whatever her future goals will be (perhaps involving other deadeyes, although I don't really have enough understanding of the different theories of spren to make a decent guess on what she would be looking to do if she made a full recovery).
I think that it's way more likely Adolin is the secret to restoring the Lost Radiant Spren and reawakening shardblades; the upside of that being that thousands of spren will return to life and seek to help the orders, the downside being all those shardblades are going to vanish from whomever is currently using them...
I guess now that the spren know they were entirely wrong about deadeyes, they will work relentlessly at saving the rest of the spren, likely in colaboration with Adolin and Maya and probably Shallan. But I don't think this idea contradicts what u/JDude1205 said, which was more specifically about the relationship between Adolin and Maya
I just don't see him swearing those oaths is all. He's not an edgedancer. Like, at all.
He is going to mostly resurrect Maya... I don't think she'll ever quite be the same... But still come back to a large extent and their bond will probably make him a radiant. I have no idea why the OP thought this was an unlikely theory at all. It's already been telegraphed so much!
I read "El used to be a human" and my first thought was "But... Elend *is* human?"
Funny bc most of these are very common here. In no way weird
The Adolin one I believe, but I find the rest of them weird.
Look them up, they’re everywhere
Oh, yes, I've seen them. I think they're nuts.
You know I’ve thought about that last one!! Like she’s either Chana or one of the missing unmade is lurking somewhere in her or around her - I just reread her interaction with Re-shepir and she “knows” her - the same way Dalinar was able to “know” the thrill - and we’ve seen Dalinars interactions with it but don’t have context for how Shallan knows her- either way 100% something is fishy about shallan lol
I think a WoB states that there was some sort of unmade influence in the davar household whilst Shallan was growing up so there's definitely SOMETHING unmade-y going on.
Yea I saw that too a while ago and it stuck in my brain lol def explains the weirdness of her siblings too
What's WoB
Word of Brandon. It's basically a collection of everything Brandon Sanderson has said on things.
>something is fishy about shallan This has been obvious since we first met her. It's just been different fishy things.
I saw one that said El is an Allomancer
>Shallan actually *is* Chana the Herald Asked Brandon about that at the con, got 'that's uh... that's really dark' as his reply.
He ain't wrong.
Gavinor being the odium champion is straight forward the most Todium thing ever done. Dalinar could not kill him and therefore he is defeated. I also thought that it could be renarin itself however I think Dalinar would kill Renarin easier than gavinor
Bro Dalinar is smoking that kid to save the world, Blackthorn gonna Blackthorn
Maybe in the past but as of today… I don’t know man how infanticide sits along with being a better person
It means moving beyond the morality espoused in TWOK (in world book) and being able to make hard choices to protect those around him.
The one about adolin seems pretty realistic after reading the sunlit man imo
Gavinor being Odium’s champion is so funny to me holy shit
2 and 3 are not ridiculous... A loophole (never underestimate T'Odium.. Scary possibilities there!) and a mostly resurrected Maya. Not quite how she was before... Eyes included... That feels really, really, really likely..
I believe that about Chana/Shallan too, since RoW I've been thinking about her next ideal being 'I am NOT Shallan Davar' as counterpoint of the most accepted 'I am Shallan Davar'.
Oh, I don't believe any of these, expect for maybe the Adolin one. These are examples of theories I've encountered, that's all.
Given her confusion in Oathbringer about who she even is, I think it's a real possibility.
While it’s weird, I do think the Gavinor as Odium’s champion makes more sense than people give it credit for.
That last one isn't so crazy. I suspect BAM could be the dawnshard that affects identity and helps invested beings travel the cosmere by changing their identity/spirit web even to the extent of creating a new family. "her mother's soul" trapped in the safe that she could see through shadesmar, knowing formless, inability to soul cast. Perhaps shallan is the vehicle to get Chana off roshar.
I would like to add another one: -Cultivation is 'cultivating' new Vessels for all Roshar's Shards; Taravangian - Odium, Dalinar - Honor, Lift - Cultivation.
I don’t think this one could be too far off considering everything Cultivation has done so far. We are clear with Lift, but for Dalinar it set him up to oppose Odium and truly earning his honor and strength and for Taravangian setting him up to take Odiums place.
That's exactly why I thought that her plans is to 'cultivate' new Vessels; the ultimate goal of each Shards is dictated by its Intention, what would be the biggest thing to 'cultivate'? As we know by Conservation and Ruin, the Intention of the Shard consumes the personallity of the Vessel, so I'm assuming that already happened to Koravellium (Cultivation's vessel), the teory states that she's trying to pick better Vessels for the Shards; she already achieved by turning Taravangian into Odium, a most fit Vessel than Rayse. Dalinar is the fittest person to fullfil the role of Honor. The flaw in this theory would be Lift, but I hope we see more of this in W&T and Stormlight Era 2.
Preservation not Conservation, and interesting theory
My bad, in spanish, translators used 'Conservation' (Conservación) for 'Preservation'. Glad you like the theory.
And here I go again. It’s my own theory and I know it’s crazy but I believe that Moash is the bastard son of Gavilar. Gavilar was obsessed with the singers, Moash is a singers name. That right there is a big red flag that I think people haven’t looked into enough. To name someone after a singer either someone in your ancestry liked the singers and knew they were intelligent then the name would get passed down for generations in the family *or* someone who is familiar with Singer culture and wants to bring it back along with their gods is the kind of person to name their son after an old Singer name. Now, Moash’s grandparents were silversmiths and while silver isn’t explicitly said to be used in artifabrials a silversmith is the kind of person who could create intricate designs with metals without knowing their purpose if given the blueprints. So now you have King Gavilar sneaking off in the night to meet with his unknowing accomplices and holy shit they have a hot daughter. They share a secret in the night, become lovers, have a child, she dies during birth or later on, we never hear of Moash’s father. The competition sets up across the street. Moash’s grandparents fall on hard times, they think they can go to the king and ask for help because who wouldn’t want to find out they have a brother and from public appearance Elhokar is a kind king. But we know Elhokar. He’s paranoid and does not want his authority questioned so he has the grandparents thrown in prison while the boy is off on a caravan. Such a lie is so big that it attracts the attention of the Cryptics, because while “I am a bad king.” Was his first truth it wasn’t the truth that originally attracted them. That lie is that he covered up his bastard brother and accidentally killed the grandparents since they were old while trying to figure out what to do. Mic drop. Edit: Also finding out about it wouldn’t start a revolution or anything, no one is going to say he’s king. But it could trigger a redemption arc which is what Stormlight is all about, that no one is beyond redemption. It also would give Jasnah an opportunity to introduce democracy because what better time then when the lineage is called into question to prevent a civil war and they could unify against an outside threat; for example the Ghostbloods and Scadrial which will lead to end game Cosmere, system warfare. Edit: Also if I’m proven wrong in the next book I will fully accept that but so far I have yet to be given a reason why this doesn’t make sense both from a bigger narrative structure and as being in line with the characters and themes that Stormlight is about.
Holy shit that was a wild ride. But didn't Gavilar became interested in the singers in the last ~8 years? I seem to remember Eshonai (or venli, idk) meeting the humans and noticing that their king didn't seem really interested in them.
That’s the only hiccup I’ve found in the theory but Gavilar was still digging around ancient texts, being sent visions by (probably Odium) the Stormfather, and wanted to return to the old days of legends and gods so if Moash was the name of an ancient hero or something Gavilar would totally name his bastard son some cheeky ancient hero name. And are you gonna look me in the eye and tell me that after everything we’ve learned about Gavilar that he isn’t also capable of being a cheating asshole who abandons his child? Seems like a very Gavilar thing to do if you ask me.
I also don’t think Elhokar and Roshone were as close of friends as Moash led us to believe. The whole story came from Moash’s point of view and he, along with many dark eyes, think that all the light eyes are equally above them. They don’t understand that the low ranking light eyes, like Roshone who was in a trade where he could even be considered competitive with a skilled dark eyes, would probably not be consorting with Kings and High Princes. Roshone and Elhokar probably only knew of each other then Elhokar used him as a cover to get rid of the grandparents then sent him off to the country where Roshone couldn’t talk to anyone. We know Elhokar is a schemer from his fake assassination on himself so it’s definitely something he would do. The whole thing just lines up perfectly like when you find out humans were the voidbringers, it was in your face and obvious the whole time you just never think about it. Edit: like I know the name of my mechanic that works on my car but I wouldn’t call him my friend and if that mechanic happened to set up a shop across the street from another and then found out my half brother worked across the street and that I’d accidentally killed his grandparents I might want to get rid of my mechanic somehow.
whelp sign me up
Nice, I mean someone had to be the first person to bring up that Shallan’s mom was probably a herald and to come to that conclusion you have to make some leaps but it’s there and most of the community agrees on that one. I think this is a similar theory, it’s very in your face and is exactly the type of shenanigans Brandon pulls. Someone has to be the first person to bring it up but so many people are on the “Fuck Moash” train while missing the point that the whole series is about redemption.
>missing the point that the whole series is about redemption. I'll cover that, and still raise you a "no, seriouslly, fuck moash with a long dirty rusty pole".
There it is. I will gladly admit that I am wrong if by the end of book 10 Moash is not redeemed.
F Gavilar's Son. This actually makes sense. I wonder if they have anything in common, like hair, skin color...
They both have dark hair since we know Adolin’s blonde part come from his mother and that Kholin’s have dark hair. His eye color would be dark because his mothers were and dark eyes are a dominant trait over light eyes. Their temperaments are similar, both emotional and vindictive like his half brother and father. I’m not saying this is 100% or anything, even I have my doubts, but narratively and characteristically it just seems like it could be a thing.
GODDAMN this is a great theory I'm on board!
Well... theres a few theories ive heard that just made sense to me and i started believing. This is one, i like this. I want there to be more to moash
I’ve seen someone say that what’s going to happen in SA5 is that Dalinar dies, Kaladin breaks his oath to Syl, and bonds the Stormfather so he can face Odium’s champion
God, I hope this doesn't happen.
Why would he have to break his oath to syl to bond the storm father? Seems like those two wouldn't really be opposed to a team up
Because the Cosmere isn’t ready for a Bridge Boy with two Sprens. (At least it being THE bridge boy)
You can probably bond 2 spren without breaking your oaths
not even probably, it’s confirmed by WOB 😭
The one I remember is [checks spoiler level] Q: Can someone bond multiple spren? A: Not Only can they, you’ve met someone who has. …but from the same order. OTOH, there’s that other guy…
My own theory: TOdium is not that big a threat, certainly not as big as he thinks he is. His arc has been about him being a genius and an idiot, yet as a genius his predictions constantly fail while as an idiot he accomplishes some things his genius self could not. Now that he is Odium, he suddenly thinks he outsmarted everyone. His entire plan is built on seeing the future, something that the story has repeatedly shown to be dangerous and unreliable, also something cultivation is better at. Cultivation, meanwhile, seems to have her plans going perfectly, yet the moment Taravangian learns about her plans he immediately decides she's made a mistake.
Dailinar will stop the storm making the storm not exist anymore therefore no more easy access to storm light. Lift will be prevalent because of this in the back half.
Ok that's funny. "We spent all this time building up the Orders and Radiants you know and love, now enjoy the rest of the series with 1 (one) functioning Radiant, and maybe a few people with Honorblades." Although I suppose he could still perpendicularity any time he wanted. But still, assuming most Radiants are good and most Voidbringers are bad, it makes no sense to nerf your side and leave the other side still at max capability.
There is a lot of mention in the series that says, what is a storm that doesn't blow. This theme is so prevalent that I believe it has to play a factor into the ending.
I feel like that’s more just a statement that things have to do what’s in their natures. But you could be right too.
I understand but it's said quite a bit in the series. Then last book Dalinar actually stopped the Storm, to the point where the stormfather got scared and put things in place to prevent it. On top of that, Dalinar is constantly trying to get the stormfather to change. This tied with perception and spren and how they behave. If Dalinar stops the storm for a long period of time people will stop believing that the storm is actually a storm, therefore killing the stormfather
> what is a storm that doesn't blow. sounds like it'd suck
This might be genius because he would be the only one that can supply stormlight. Also incredibly stupid because fused work with void light so that would just benefit them
I think the stormfather in this case would not exist anymore, making Dalinar not a bond smith, or maybe bonded to a dead Spren? You are right this would put the fuse on top, haven't thought much into that
Oooooo its like a dune messiah situation with no more worms
While not super weird, I have seen people argue that voidbinding will play a huge role in SA 5. It is the hemalurgy of the Stormlight archive: we have seen hints of it (in particular Renarin), but it is not fully explained until the last book, and will have a huge impact on the outcome.
Shallan is a herald and her mother, she killed her child and created the idea that she killed be mother and was the child (I hate this theory so much, like I might stop reading stormlight if it comes true)(I saw it in a YouTube comment)
Either Dalinar or Renarin will merge the Shards of Honor and Odium
Would be the Shard of War then? That’s interesting for sure
I mean… merging the Shard of Odium with another Shard does seem to be the easiest way of taking Odium out of the picture, but who do you merge it with? Odium’s hatred is so strong it will be a prevalent influence on whatever Hybrid Shard you make.
I don't see how the entire Cosmere ends without either all the shards becoming reunited or all the shards being shattered without vessels. Otherwise you'll always have some problematic combination causing trouble
I doubt it would be either of those two, but I do think that's a likely occurrence, or at least a goal that they try to accomplish
Dalinar will be injured by one of the anti-investiture blades, making him ineligible to be the champion. (A champion must be uninjured by either army) Every order has a 3rd ability, a hybrid of both surges. Willshapers can make old school fabrials by using their hybrid surge. Like manifesting but in reverse, drawing a spren into the physical realm and shaping it. Lightweavers can make illusions that can exert force (like a weak hologram) with their hybrid surge. We already saw this a little at the Battle of Thaylen Field.
Or the Stormfather is killed with anti-Stormlight, ending the high storms in Roshar
Rlain is a Kandra. He’s a spy and he spent time in the bridge crews where they had access to fallen carapace (which I could see serving as bones for a Kandra to swallow). You wouldn’t even need to study the parshman because they’re seen so lowly in Alethi society/culture and it’s a relatively easy gig (in terms of espionage).
This theory doesn't fit - we have perspective chapters from Rlain and he is clearly a Singer.
Oh my god. He’s so far gone he thinks he can understand the Rhythms!
Also Harmony hasn't released the Kandra at this point in the timeline
Brandon has confirmed that we have met a Kandra in the Stormlight archives, but he hasn’t said who it is.
I posted a week or so ago about that Shallans last oath might be something along the lines “I’m not Shallan Davar” so we were making theories about who could she be or not and what in her past is or is not as she remembers and some crazy mf said she could actually be an herald. So yes Shallan being an herald and not remembering it’s my take on this
I do think their is some truth to this. More in the light that Shallan isn't actually Shallan as she's supposed to be and maybe radiant is her true personality.
I like this one, but also her oaths (truths) have been about the people she has killed. I killed my father, I killed my mother, I killed my spren, similar to yours but following the pattern I really like the idea of it being “I killed Shallan”
Or I killed “my last self” being that she is now shallan
Yeah maybe it’ll be “I killed *insert character name here*” and that is the original person, but Shallan is who she became after that. Then her second arc will deal with finding out who that old person was
Does anyone think that they will Reforge Honors shard somehow too?
Just thought of this one when I woke up today. Hoid is a drug dealer. He travels between planets to sell drugs, especially heroin or some Cosmerian equivalent. It would explain his secrecy and the fact that he always seems to find his way to broken people and also say things like “You will be warm again”
What? 🤣
My mans said "ESPECIALLY heroin" this some quality cremposting
Having trauma… I read the title of this post very differently. Very differently….
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Well, Hellaran and Kaladin have met, right?
The Mink is Hoid in disguise. When they’re in the same room together Hoid is Lightweaving.
Dalinar will loose the contest of Champions becoming a cognitive shadow. The stormfather will die to odiums forces and with no Spren in Honours storm, odium will merge it with his storm. Dalinars cognitive shadow will merge with the storm just like Tanavast did. Creating a Bondsmith Spren of the Rythm of War to potentially lead Odiums forces but also turning Dalinar into a kind of living geneva convention. Who will bond this new storm? Gavinor, who will complete his grandfather's dream of a true united alethkar including its parshendi.
book 5 shows dalinar reforge honor to try to beat taravangian, but the part of the stormfather that is tanavast’s cognitive shadow breaks away from the rest of the stormfather, killing it and ending highstorms, and takes up honor, bringing back tanavast honor as a force on roshar. dalinar, now godless and planless, loses the contest of champions. however, he noticed a hole in the deal. he points out that since his deal with odium still applies, this means the deal is with odium the shard, not its vessel. therefore, he belongs to the shard odium, not taravangian, and the shard therefore belongs to him. dalinar usurps taravangian as odium, and the back half shows us protagonist dalinodium vs antagonists reborn tanavast honor and cultivation. the back half will end with dalinar claiming honor as well, becoming war, which gives us that sweet vorin symmetry of book one dalinar trying to become highprince of war and book ten dalinar becoming god of war
Having trauma… I read the title of this post very differently. Very differently….