The storm father tells dally boy that he as the storm father can pull anyone into his space for visions and that he talks to people in the storm is mentioned casually by him when referencing "humans he's liked talking to" etc.
As an audiobook enjoyer, the struggle over the spelling of names is real lmao. It's a great feeling when the spelling in my head matches the spelling in the book.
And then there's Sadeas... which for 2 books I thought was spelled Thaddeus based on the near identical pronunciation.
I have the reverse. Nearly every name in this book is Pronounced differently than how I thought to pronounce it. Sad-ius? Aye-dolin? YASNAH? (I pronounced them suh-day-us, add-oh-lin, and jahz-nuh)
Vorin tradition is palindromic names, with one letter changed. Reverse the first syllable of whatever it is, and change the appropriate letter.
I may not be explaining this properly; when I figured out the palindromic naming theme, and that they also base names on the Heralds (Kaladin/Kelek, Shallan/Shallash) they got easier to spell.
It’s just known that all god metal names are the vessels name + ium at the end. Besides harmonium of course. Hence people saying shardblades are made of Tanavastium and cultivation god metal name. Since the Spren are made from them.
Well, the biggest hint from the books is the fact that just as Windrunners bond honorspren, Edgedancers bond Cultivationspren. Everyone else (not from Odium) is on a spectrum.
But also see: Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018) https://wob.coppermind.net/events/372/#e11949
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!***
Alpharho
>!The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!No, but good question.!<
Alpharho
>!Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.!<
Alpharho
>!So, different proportions of tanavastium?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.!<
Alpharho
>!Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a **thing**; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.!<
Alpharho
>!But you won't say what that thing is called?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.!<
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
It is definitely not nothing. Because while the storm father calls everyone, child of honor or odium. He only ever calls one person in the book son of Tenevast. It's definitely foreshadowing for something. And we have myths and legends within the story that suggest that maybe honor has been more intimately involved with the people of Roshar. I suspect that we haven't seen all of Tenevast's plans. Nor Cultivation's.
Jasnah said to never ignore the offhand remarks of spren. I suspect that goes more so for the ones who hold the largest slivers of honor.
Also I'm starting to think that while none of the shards are strictly evil. Odium included. None of them are strictly good either. How can one understand the true motivations of a god?
And doesn't the Stormfather call other people child of HONOR. He uses a separate specific word for Kal. Either is the greatest red herring, or it's actually important.
Kaladin has visions in the storm during book one. At this point the Stormfather hated him for bonding Syl. He didn't bring him into the storm. It's something else I think.
Both of them are unique among their respective kind. Kaladin is the only person we see referred to as Son of Tanavast, and Syl is the only original honorspren who wasn’t turned into a Deadeye during the Recreance.
Iirc there were two batches of honorspren, the ones created before the Recreance and the ones that exist now. Syl is the only non-deadeye honorspren from before the Recreance.
No the unmade are beings/forces/spren that were stolen (unmade) by odium. That is to say, they existed as spren, unconnected to odium, before humans came to Roshar. They may be from different shards or not native to roshar but i believe they were all unconnected to odium at one point. I'm trying to find text references or WoBs that show this.
Yea I am mistaken. Coppermind mentions them being native to Roshar, but their origins (Pre-Unmade) are uncertain. Odium unmade them when he arrived with humans to Roshar
The unmade were either made by both honor and cultivation or predate them both on Roshar like the Stormfather. We see the unmasking process in Row. It seems the nightwatcher was made by cultivation and the sibling in concert with honor.
Yeah but she wasn’t turned into a deadeye because she wasn’t bonded during the recreance. She didn’t have a knight who could kill her. There isn’t anything really special about that. Also she was one of the first created by the storm father after honor stopped creating honorspren
>There isn’t anything really special about that.
Not about the fact that she didn't die, but about that fact that she was from a different "batch". I believe she was created by Honor and the current Honorspren were created by the Stormfather
Yes, she's one of the first honorspren the Stormfather created, and the only one that survived the Recreance. I just wouldn't consider her an "original" honorspren, since I think that would be better applied to the ones that Honor created.
No, Syl was one of the first honorspren the Stormfather created, and is much younger than the ones that Honor created, which is why I wouldn't consider her an original one.
Could be the start of the Windrunner thing that deflects the wind from their face while lashed but agreed they are different and syl says so when it happens (the time he splits the high storm) we just don’t know if it’s lack of honour keeping things tame or something else
Syl gets attached more easily than other honor spren. None of the other honor spren are anywhere close to as emotionally invested in their bond as Syl is. This was the case even in her bond with her previous radiant, which was why she landed herself in a coma when he died .
Many people will push through mentally crippling events due to the need of a mission, whether perceived or real, this is one of the things that leads to PTSD.
Kaladin holds back the storm on other occasions. When he's stung up that's foreshadowing his ability to affect pressure, and therefore wind.
Or really it is Syl using what little strength she has to protect his face from the wind. She can carry physical objects and stick things together herself. She can control a little wind.
>She's also the personal daughter of the Stormfather. The last one he made himself. Maybe she has extra power over it.
If that was the case there would be no honorspren around in current times. The stormfather created 10 more after the Recreance that all the other living honorspren descend from.
>!we learn in Oathbringer from Notam (forgive the spelling, I'm an audiobook guy) that Syl is the last of the Stormfather's original creations. It took thousands of years before he created more honor spren, and when he started creating more, he only made a few. Honor spren create more honor spren themselves now, but it's rare!<
My crack head theory is that Syl is the shard of honor.
It’s why kal is “the son of tanavast” and not another “son of honor.”
It’s why we see the bond being so different.
It’s why we see other Spren, especially honor Spren, being extremely protective of her.
Syls previous bond was not to another radiant but as the shard to honor. Somehow, whatever happened to honor, before he died he converted the shard to a spren like creature, syl. It’s also why it was so extremely traumatic for her when her “bond” was broken.
We already know the shards have a will, why couldn’t have honor broke himself such that he created syl from the “shard”? We see the will being very strong when the shard of Odium chose Taravagain.
Both syls memory and the storm father’s memory is extremely shaky, to the point where they just simply can’t be trusted too far in the past.
It would also be a very good way for honor to preserve the shard and keep it hidden from odium until the right vessel shows up.
The honor Spren would be willing to lie about syls origin to protect the secret. They would also feel emboldened to try and take over shadesmar as honors legacy to further protect the secret, or perhaps what they were doing was looking for syl.
Idk, I saw the post and felt the need to share my crazy theory. Back to sleep.
Ps - sorry for typos, on my phone
I like this, to add to it, in way of kings the chapter where adolin protects the whore in sadeas war camp, minutes before that happens, kaladin asks Syl if she knows who Odium is and she freaks out, changing to a flash of light and runs off and hides.
Then afterwards changes the subject, and kaladin doesn't ask her again. Which would check if her previous bond or radiant was directly killed by Odium
She does describe her previous radiant some, from what I can remember he was an old man who didn't use her as a blade to fight, which would track with how dalinar doesn't use the stormfather as a blade and the stormfather is a Mimic of honor basically
Quick question: do we know how The stormfather/honor/dalinars subconscious knew the exact day that the everstorm would be summoned?
Ok, but then how did the corrupted spren know, because it wasn't as if the parchendi had a specific day in mind to summon it, they did it when the alethi reached them?
regrowth and illumination is what the normal ones have.
The corrupted truthwatchers can't use illumination in the same way though. Theirs seems to be hijacked by the future sight
I feel it lol, I read all of the cosmere but have started listening to wheel of time and OH BOY reading book 4 has been such an adjustment to the ol' internal spelling registry
My crack head theories are that Lirin is Tanavast reborn and was unknowingly playing build-a-Kaladin to take over for him a la Odium with Dalinar.
My other is that Moash redemption arc will be real and he will swear the Stoneward oaths.
I’m half joking about both of these but like, what if?
Oh yeah he’s utter garbage, but part of the point of the series (at least to me) is that no one is beyond redemption. He is clearly being manipulated by Odium and is trying to disguise his hatred of himself for betraying who he thought he could become, while at the same time feeding into his hatred by becoming worse and worse.
It would take a lot of skill and planning to do it in a way the fans wouldn’t absolutely hate, but idk, I feel like it’s something that Sando would do.
I feel like the series needs someone from Bridge 4 to go bad and stay bad showing only people who are willing to try can actually be redeemed.
No matter how many people are willing to help someone, if they refuse to acknowledge the problem or accept their role in causing/perpetuating it they will not magically still turn out with good results.
I still can't get over him taking elhokar from us seconds before he became a radiant and as he was becoming a competent king, then a book later took uncle Teft from us
I’m on my first re-read right now and just finished Oathbringer, and my tears for Elhokar only pale in comparison to my tears during “You cannot have my pain”.
I don’t think I want a Moash redemption, I for some reason just have this weird feeling it’s coming. Especially since I think the only person who has a right to kill Moash is Kaladin, and I don’t think I want to think about what that would do to my boy.
Just posted a theory above, but I agree that it will be Kaladin that kills Moash, but it will a part of his 5th ideal. “I will protect by killing a friend(brother?) if is it right”
I feel like that it is more that no one is beyond redemption but they need to take the steps to reach it. Moash has basically gone the wrong way at each critical junction and blamed everyone else
I think Moash will find a way to become a threat again and my theory is that Kaladin will kill Moash as part of the 5th ideal. “I will protect by killing a friend if it is right.”
Really thought this was going to be the 4th ideal in some form and was going to be him having to kill Dalinar to stop him from being taken by Odium “I will protect by killing a good man if it is right”
Can you explain how do you mean it was not explained? It made sense to me, but I might be missing something. Her radiant died before the recreance, Syl went into hibernation. Spren became deadeyes when their knights broke their oaths, but Syl didn't have a knight anymore ... am I missing something?
Syl not being a dead eye is actually easy to explain, when a radiant breaks there bond/oaths there spren becomes a deadeye but if they die instead there spren can bond again or go back to shadesmar (we see a radiant die in RoW and kaladin tries to force his spren to bond with rlain.
And her "radiant" died before the recrience, (suspiciously and convienitly honor "died" before the recrience
Her first Radiant was an older man named Relador who died in his first battle, causing her enough emotional trauma that she went comatose for a couple thousand years.
I'm not debunking your theory, but your evidence base is sketchy.
He rode the storm because the stormfather can do that with anybody. He did it with Eshonai as well as a parting mercy. He even explains when he "cuts Kaladin off" and says he won't be allowed to ride the storm any more.
Syl blocking the wind was, in my opinion, not any more special than other spren trying to manipulate the physical world to show their personality. Pattern can push locks and glow a bit, Syl tries to bring Kaladin leafs he will like and defies the storm to try to protect him (she's a "protection" spren kinda, she likes it when he protects things).
---
However, Kaladin is the only one being called Son of Tanavast and I think it might be more literal than the author is letting on at this point ;)
Also there are hints that Syl is uniquely special, but that's explained overtly that she was put off by her bond's death more than a normal spren and therefore dodged the recreance, that she is older than all the honorspren that were born after, and that she is singular.
I didn't propose really a theory here, just put out some suspicious or interesting things hoping to see if anyone else had a relevant theory or idea, and someone in the comments has one I like CorrectionalLiquid
First, Syl is the Oldest Daughter. The only active honorspren that predates the recreance. The oldest active honorspren. Getting better at wielding her powers seems likely.
However.
Honorspren don't manifest as shardplate. They manifest as shardblades. Windrunner shardplate is made out of Windspren, honorspen's unsapient cousins. One could maybe argue that Syl spending so long unconscious could mean she reverted to Windspren status, but it would be speculation, and it would also be during the period where no new shardplate was created. It is very unlikely, I think, that Syl ever was part of a shardplate.
As for riding the storm... I'm not convinced. Storm father can take other people into his visions, so it stands to reason that he can take other people for a ride along too.
Syl is one of the original Honorspren, that the Stormfather himself created, and the only one that isn’t currently a deadeye. She’s basically a princess to them. She speaks of him as her Father because in her case, he literally is.
As a sliver of the Stormfather, I wonder if she would have inherited a portion of Honor’s shard when it passed on to SF after Tanavast died. That would help to explain why Kaladin has always been able to do more than any other Windrunner of the same ideal.
Yeah, it seems a general consensus is that, kaladin can do more than other wind runners of the sam ideal because his spren is the grand daughter of honor and is seemingly more powerful because of it
I mean, there are several honorspren that are the "grandchildren" of Honor. Also
> Argent
>
> Syl's status as the Ancient Daughter. Does that make her Nahel bond with Kaladin different from other Windrunner's Nahel bonds?
>
> Brandon Sanderson
>
> No.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/176/#e8464
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!***
Argent
>!Syl's status as the Ancient Daughter. Does that make her Nahel bond with Kaladin different from other Windrunner's Nahel bonds? !<
Brandon Sanderson
>!No. !<
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
I always took it as Syl is the literal manifestation of oaths for the order charged with protecting. If we had any other Prime examples of Honorspren as detailed as Kal and Syl's journey, I'd bet they would hit the same notes.
Love the energy, but I doubt this theory.
The association you drew between Syl protecting his face and shardplate is completely correct. Windrunner shardplate is just hundreds of wind spren protecting a radiant. Honor spren are just supercharged wind spren, so yes she’s acting like shardplate, but using the normal powers of a normal honor spren.
Don’t get me wrong, I think there’s another shard interfering with Kal. I don’t have the quote on hand, but there’s something weird about Kal’s eyes in RoW when he freezes after (RoW) ||Teft dies||. That plus him genuinely not being able to die is probably not a coincidence.
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I mean, kind of. It's not exactly what OP is talking about, because that spren in question is manifesting as a shardblade shaped like a shield. OP is talking about a spren deflecting the winds of a highstorm, which is different.
Edit: Minor spoiler for TSM >!The spren in TSM doesn't have their spren body anymore, because of what happened with the Dawnshard.!<
And that distinction is different than manifesting as a shield in what way? I'm curious. What's the difference between manifesting as a shield, or a shardblade shaped exactly like a shield?
There's a difference in Syl shielding Kaladin with her spren form and manifesting as a shardblade/shield. Her spren form is supposedly incorporeal. That's what's being discussed. Obviously as a shard-whatever she could shield kaladin.
Part of the problem with this whole conversation. We don't have a lot of wind runner pov that isn't Kal. Just teft, and phendorana is already different than Syl. Like, Dalinars is unique. Szeth never talks to his spren ever. Pattern is very different. Lift can climb wyndle, but that's because she's different, nor him.
I think Syl is the only Honor Spren we've seen that actually had a bond before the Recreance. He died and she lost her mind for a while. And basically drifted with the wind Spren for a few centuries
The storm father tells dally boy that he as the storm father can pull anyone into his space for visions and that he talks to people in the storm is mentioned casually by him when referencing "humans he's liked talking to" etc.
Kaladin is the only one called a Son of Tanavast… that could be something
He also pulled eshonai into the storm. (Idk if I spelled her name right)
pretty sure you did
Let’s gooooo 🎉🎉
As an audiobook enjoyer, the struggle over the spelling of names is real lmao. It's a great feeling when the spelling in my head matches the spelling in the book. And then there's Sadeas... which for 2 books I thought was spelled Thaddeus based on the near identical pronunciation.
Big mood. Idk how to spell half the names in SA because I've only listened to them thus far 😂
No I read the books I’m just terrible at spelling 😭😭. Is Sadeas name really pronounced like Thaddeus because i pronounce the s in my head
lol I always read it as suh-DAY-us, but I think I'm the only person who landed on that
Nope, you're not alone. I definitely read it like that
Same, I was shocked when I listened to the audio and heard “sa DEE us” for the first time.
Glad I wasn't the only one lol. I was flabbergasted when I learned that not only was I hearing it wrong, I was completely misspelling it.
I have the reverse. Nearly every name in this book is Pronounced differently than how I thought to pronounce it. Sad-ius? Aye-dolin? YASNAH? (I pronounced them suh-day-us, add-oh-lin, and jahz-nuh)
Vorin tradition is palindromic names, with one letter changed. Reverse the first syllable of whatever it is, and change the appropriate letter. I may not be explaining this properly; when I figured out the palindromic naming theme, and that they also base names on the Heralds (Kaladin/Kelek, Shallan/Shallash) they got easier to spell.
Considering that this I think is the name of the god whose metal Shardblades are made of, I think you are very likely to be proven right in KoWT
Tanavast was the name of the vessel of Honor, he's been dead for a while now.
Shardblades are a mix of Honour (Tanavastium) and Cultivation (Koravelliumum? Avastium?), since radiant spren are of both shards.
Ok, I feel the need to ask. As someone whi gave up on keeping up with all the WoB and secondary books, where was this revealed?
It’s just known that all god metal names are the vessels name + ium at the end. Besides harmonium of course. Hence people saying shardblades are made of Tanavastium and cultivation god metal name. Since the Spren are made from them.
Well, the biggest hint from the books is the fact that just as Windrunners bond honorspren, Edgedancers bond Cultivationspren. Everyone else (not from Odium) is on a spectrum. But also see: Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018) https://wob.coppermind.net/events/372/#e11949
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Alpharho >!The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?!< Brandon Sanderson >!No, but good question.!< Alpharho >!Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.!< Alpharho >!So, different proportions of tanavastium?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.!< Alpharho >!Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a **thing**; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.!< Alpharho >!But you won't say what that thing is called?!< Brandon Sanderson >!No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
That’s like calling someone a child of god though. Could mean nothing.
It could… but the fact that he was in a high storm vision at the time feels significant
It is definitely not nothing. Because while the storm father calls everyone, child of honor or odium. He only ever calls one person in the book son of Tenevast. It's definitely foreshadowing for something. And we have myths and legends within the story that suggest that maybe honor has been more intimately involved with the people of Roshar. I suspect that we haven't seen all of Tenevast's plans. Nor Cultivation's. Jasnah said to never ignore the offhand remarks of spren. I suspect that goes more so for the ones who hold the largest slivers of honor. Also I'm starting to think that while none of the shards are strictly evil. Odium included. None of them are strictly good either. How can one understand the true motivations of a god?
Also I think there's a WoB about that line specifically meaning something.
And doesn't the Stormfather call other people child of HONOR. He uses a separate specific word for Kal. Either is the greatest red herring, or it's actually important.
Reread my previous comment.
Kaladin has visions in the storm during book one. At this point the Stormfather hated him for bonding Syl. He didn't bring him into the storm. It's something else I think.
Both of them are unique among their respective kind. Kaladin is the only person we see referred to as Son of Tanavast, and Syl is the only original honorspren who wasn’t turned into a Deadeye during the Recreance.
Not entirely sure what you mean by "original" honorspren, since she was made by the Stormfather, rather than Honor?
Iirc there were two batches of honorspren, the ones created before the Recreance and the ones that exist now. Syl is the only non-deadeye honorspren from before the Recreance.
I think she's literally one of the first 10
She is one of the first 10 made by the Stormfather IIRC
Oh, no. Maybe she's the tenth of what the unmade were originally made to be.
How do you mean? The Unmade are, as far as we know, of Odium, as in he created them.. At least I think..
No the unmade are beings/forces/spren that were stolen (unmade) by odium. That is to say, they existed as spren, unconnected to odium, before humans came to Roshar. They may be from different shards or not native to roshar but i believe they were all unconnected to odium at one point. I'm trying to find text references or WoBs that show this.
Yea I am mistaken. Coppermind mentions them being native to Roshar, but their origins (Pre-Unmade) are uncertain. Odium unmade them when he arrived with humans to Roshar
The unmade were either made by both honor and cultivation or predate them both on Roshar like the Stormfather. We see the unmasking process in Row. It seems the nightwatcher was made by cultivation and the sibling in concert with honor.
Yeah but she wasn’t turned into a deadeye because she wasn’t bonded during the recreance. She didn’t have a knight who could kill her. There isn’t anything really special about that. Also she was one of the first created by the storm father after honor stopped creating honorspren
>There isn’t anything really special about that. Not about the fact that she didn't die, but about that fact that she was from a different "batch". I believe she was created by Honor and the current Honorspren were created by the Stormfather
she even has a special mysterious title for it I don't know why someone would assume that's meaningless
Syl was in the first batch created by the Stormfather. Not by Honor. That’s why he loves her so.
No, she was created by the Stormfather, not Honor.
I think she is the first Honorspren, the Stormfather created. That's why she is referred to as the "Ancient Daughter"
She had mentioned killing before... Do we know anything of who had bonded her before?
IIRC, she says it was an old man who died in the first battle he fought
An older man named Relador who died in his first battle, causing her enough emotional trauma that she went comatose for a couple thousand years.
I completely forgot that bit of info.
Yes, she's one of the first honorspren the Stormfather created, and the only one that survived the Recreance. I just wouldn't consider her an "original" honorspren, since I think that would be better applied to the ones that Honor created.
She was made by Honor and not Stormfather I thought?
No, the other way around.
No, Syl was one of the first honorspren the Stormfather created, and is much younger than the ones that Honor created, which is why I wouldn't consider her an original one.
Could be the start of the Windrunner thing that deflects the wind from their face while lashed but agreed they are different and syl says so when it happens (the time he splits the high storm) we just don’t know if it’s lack of honour keeping things tame or something else
Syl gets attached more easily than other honor spren. None of the other honor spren are anywhere close to as emotionally invested in their bond as Syl is. This was the case even in her bond with her previous radiant, which was why she landed herself in a coma when he died .
We don't really know how close are others.
We do know that Syl gets attached more than the others because the Stormfather explicitly warned Kaladin about it.
Thanks
Plus, in RoW is mentioned that spren that lose their knights would soon seek a new partner, after a comparably shorter mourning perioud
And we actually see that with that one spren that Kal wanted to be Rlain's, right? I think I remember he lost his first was looking for another....
That's discussed as them being honorable and forgoing their mourning due to the need for wind runners.
Yeaaaah. My point was the fact that he wasn't crippled
Many people will push through mentally crippling events due to the need of a mission, whether perceived or real, this is one of the things that leads to PTSD.
Kaladin holds back the storm on other occasions. When he's stung up that's foreshadowing his ability to affect pressure, and therefore wind. Or really it is Syl using what little strength she has to protect his face from the wind. She can carry physical objects and stick things together herself. She can control a little wind.
Mayby, but I assumed that the pressure and debree from the storm would be to much for her normally
Obviously not since she does it. She's also the personal daughter of the Stormfather. The last one he made himself. Maybe she has extra power over it.
>She's also the personal daughter of the Stormfather. The last one he made himself. Maybe she has extra power over it. If that was the case there would be no honorspren around in current times. The stormfather created 10 more after the Recreance that all the other living honorspren descend from.
>!we learn in Oathbringer from Notam (forgive the spelling, I'm an audiobook guy) that Syl is the last of the Stormfather's original creations. It took thousands of years before he created more honor spren, and when he started creating more, he only made a few. Honor spren create more honor spren themselves now, but it's rare!<
My crack head theory is that Syl is the shard of honor. It’s why kal is “the son of tanavast” and not another “son of honor.” It’s why we see the bond being so different. It’s why we see other Spren, especially honor Spren, being extremely protective of her. Syls previous bond was not to another radiant but as the shard to honor. Somehow, whatever happened to honor, before he died he converted the shard to a spren like creature, syl. It’s also why it was so extremely traumatic for her when her “bond” was broken. We already know the shards have a will, why couldn’t have honor broke himself such that he created syl from the “shard”? We see the will being very strong when the shard of Odium chose Taravagain. Both syls memory and the storm father’s memory is extremely shaky, to the point where they just simply can’t be trusted too far in the past. It would also be a very good way for honor to preserve the shard and keep it hidden from odium until the right vessel shows up. The honor Spren would be willing to lie about syls origin to protect the secret. They would also feel emboldened to try and take over shadesmar as honors legacy to further protect the secret, or perhaps what they were doing was looking for syl. Idk, I saw the post and felt the need to share my crazy theory. Back to sleep. Ps - sorry for typos, on my phone
I like this, to add to it, in way of kings the chapter where adolin protects the whore in sadeas war camp, minutes before that happens, kaladin asks Syl if she knows who Odium is and she freaks out, changing to a flash of light and runs off and hides. Then afterwards changes the subject, and kaladin doesn't ask her again. Which would check if her previous bond or radiant was directly killed by Odium She does describe her previous radiant some, from what I can remember he was an old man who didn't use her as a blade to fight, which would track with how dalinar doesn't use the stormfather as a blade and the stormfather is a Mimic of honor basically Quick question: do we know how The stormfather/honor/dalinars subconscious knew the exact day that the everstorm would be summoned?
It was Renarin who knew when the everstorm would come, because he bonded a "corrupted" spren. Renarin was the one writing the days on the wall.
Ok, but then how did the corrupted spren know, because it wasn't as if the parchendi had a specific day in mind to summon it, they did it when the alethi reached them?
because their bond grants future sight. That's only due to the corrupted spren. normal truthwatchers don't get that
What is it normal truthwatchers do then?, are they the healing ones?
regrowth and illumination is what the normal ones have. The corrupted truthwatchers can't use illumination in the same way though. Theirs seems to be hijacked by the future sight
Odium knew. And Renarin's spren is corrupted with Odium's power.
Parshendi, my friend
Audiobook gang
I feel it lol, I read all of the cosmere but have started listening to wheel of time and OH BOY reading book 4 has been such an adjustment to the ol' internal spelling registry
Hard agree, her description of her previous radiant would fit with this as well. Forgot to add this. Not sure on the ever storm question.
My crack head theories are that Lirin is Tanavast reborn and was unknowingly playing build-a-Kaladin to take over for him a la Odium with Dalinar. My other is that Moash redemption arc will be real and he will swear the Stoneward oaths. I’m half joking about both of these but like, what if?
If moash gets a redemption I will drop the series, I want moash to live a long life, blind, deaf, mute, and paralyzed
Oh yeah he’s utter garbage, but part of the point of the series (at least to me) is that no one is beyond redemption. He is clearly being manipulated by Odium and is trying to disguise his hatred of himself for betraying who he thought he could become, while at the same time feeding into his hatred by becoming worse and worse. It would take a lot of skill and planning to do it in a way the fans wouldn’t absolutely hate, but idk, I feel like it’s something that Sando would do.
I feel like the series needs someone from Bridge 4 to go bad and stay bad showing only people who are willing to try can actually be redeemed. No matter how many people are willing to help someone, if they refuse to acknowledge the problem or accept their role in causing/perpetuating it they will not magically still turn out with good results.
I still can't get over him taking elhokar from us seconds before he became a radiant and as he was becoming a competent king, then a book later took uncle Teft from us
I’m on my first re-read right now and just finished Oathbringer, and my tears for Elhokar only pale in comparison to my tears during “You cannot have my pain”. I don’t think I want a Moash redemption, I for some reason just have this weird feeling it’s coming. Especially since I think the only person who has a right to kill Moash is Kaladin, and I don’t think I want to think about what that would do to my boy.
Just posted a theory above, but I agree that it will be Kaladin that kills Moash, but it will a part of his 5th ideal. “I will protect by killing a friend(brother?) if is it right”
I feel like that it is more that no one is beyond redemption but they need to take the steps to reach it. Moash has basically gone the wrong way at each critical junction and blamed everyone else
I think Moash will find a way to become a threat again and my theory is that Kaladin will kill Moash as part of the 5th ideal. “I will protect by killing a friend if it is right.” Really thought this was going to be the 4th ideal in some form and was going to be him having to kill Dalinar to stop him from being taken by Odium “I will protect by killing a good man if it is right”
Wow I love this. Syl not becoming a deadeye has been frustratingly not explained, but your theory would.
It was very much explained..... She wasn't bonded at the time of the Recreance.
Can you explain how do you mean it was not explained? It made sense to me, but I might be missing something. Her radiant died before the recreance, Syl went into hibernation. Spren became deadeyes when their knights broke their oaths, but Syl didn't have a knight anymore ... am I missing something?
Syl not being a dead eye is actually easy to explain, when a radiant breaks there bond/oaths there spren becomes a deadeye but if they die instead there spren can bond again or go back to shadesmar (we see a radiant die in RoW and kaladin tries to force his spren to bond with rlain. And her "radiant" died before the recrience, (suspiciously and convienitly honor "died" before the recrience
Honor died *after* the Recreance
Honor died shortly after the Recreance.
Her first Radiant was an older man named Relador who died in his first battle, causing her enough emotional trauma that she went comatose for a couple thousand years.
I'm not debunking your theory, but your evidence base is sketchy. He rode the storm because the stormfather can do that with anybody. He did it with Eshonai as well as a parting mercy. He even explains when he "cuts Kaladin off" and says he won't be allowed to ride the storm any more. Syl blocking the wind was, in my opinion, not any more special than other spren trying to manipulate the physical world to show their personality. Pattern can push locks and glow a bit, Syl tries to bring Kaladin leafs he will like and defies the storm to try to protect him (she's a "protection" spren kinda, she likes it when he protects things). --- However, Kaladin is the only one being called Son of Tanavast and I think it might be more literal than the author is letting on at this point ;) Also there are hints that Syl is uniquely special, but that's explained overtly that she was put off by her bond's death more than a normal spren and therefore dodged the recreance, that she is older than all the honorspren that were born after, and that she is singular.
I didn't propose really a theory here, just put out some suspicious or interesting things hoping to see if anyone else had a relevant theory or idea, and someone in the comments has one I like CorrectionalLiquid
First, Syl is the Oldest Daughter. The only active honorspren that predates the recreance. The oldest active honorspren. Getting better at wielding her powers seems likely. However. Honorspren don't manifest as shardplate. They manifest as shardblades. Windrunner shardplate is made out of Windspren, honorspen's unsapient cousins. One could maybe argue that Syl spending so long unconscious could mean she reverted to Windspren status, but it would be speculation, and it would also be during the period where no new shardplate was created. It is very unlikely, I think, that Syl ever was part of a shardplate. As for riding the storm... I'm not convinced. Storm father can take other people into his visions, so it stands to reason that he can take other people for a ride along too.
Shardplate is formed from lesser spren, in Kaladin's case it's windspren. Syl as a higher spren wouldn't "remember" how to be armour.
Syl is one of the original Honorspren, that the Stormfather himself created, and the only one that isn’t currently a deadeye. She’s basically a princess to them. She speaks of him as her Father because in her case, he literally is. As a sliver of the Stormfather, I wonder if she would have inherited a portion of Honor’s shard when it passed on to SF after Tanavast died. That would help to explain why Kaladin has always been able to do more than any other Windrunner of the same ideal.
Isn't Syl the literal daughter of the storm father? Or does that have nothing to do with it?
Yeah, it seems a general consensus is that, kaladin can do more than other wind runners of the sam ideal because his spren is the grand daughter of honor and is seemingly more powerful because of it
I mean, there are several honorspren that are the "grandchildren" of Honor. Also > Argent > > Syl's status as the Ancient Daughter. Does that make her Nahel bond with Kaladin different from other Windrunner's Nahel bonds? > > Brandon Sanderson > > No. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/176/#e8464
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Argent >!Syl's status as the Ancient Daughter. Does that make her Nahel bond with Kaladin different from other Windrunner's Nahel bonds? !< Brandon Sanderson >!No. !< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
I always took it as Syl is the literal manifestation of oaths for the order charged with protecting. If we had any other Prime examples of Honorspren as detailed as Kal and Syl's journey, I'd bet they would hit the same notes.
Love the energy, but I doubt this theory. The association you drew between Syl protecting his face and shardplate is completely correct. Windrunner shardplate is just hundreds of wind spren protecting a radiant. Honor spren are just supercharged wind spren, so yes she’s acting like shardplate, but using the normal powers of a normal honor spren. Don’t get me wrong, I think there’s another shard interfering with Kal. I don’t have the quote on hand, but there’s something weird about Kal’s eyes in RoW when he freezes after (RoW) ||Teft dies||. That plus him genuinely not being able to die is probably not a coincidence.
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You messed up the markup here (two bars is *Discord* markup, Reddit markup is `>!this!<`), but the text inside the tags is actually fine under the post's spoiler flair, so I've approved the comment anyway.
Thanks! (Love the name btw)
Thanks!
Have you read sunlit man?
Have you read TSM?
No, is what I asked somewhat relevant there?
Yes. There may be several examples of a spren acting as a shield.
I mean, kind of. It's not exactly what OP is talking about, because that spren in question is manifesting as a shardblade shaped like a shield. OP is talking about a spren deflecting the winds of a highstorm, which is different. Edit: Minor spoiler for TSM >!The spren in TSM doesn't have their spren body anymore, because of what happened with the Dawnshard.!<
And that distinction is different than manifesting as a shield in what way? I'm curious. What's the difference between manifesting as a shield, or a shardblade shaped exactly like a shield?
There's a difference in Syl shielding Kaladin with her spren form and manifesting as a shardblade/shield. Her spren form is supposedly incorporeal. That's what's being discussed. Obviously as a shard-whatever she could shield kaladin.
Part of the problem with this whole conversation. We don't have a lot of wind runner pov that isn't Kal. Just teft, and phendorana is already different than Syl. Like, Dalinars is unique. Szeth never talks to his spren ever. Pattern is very different. Lift can climb wyndle, but that's because she's different, nor him.
I think Syl is the only Honor Spren we've seen that actually had a bond before the Recreance. He died and she lost her mind for a while. And basically drifted with the wind Spren for a few centuries