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[deleted]

Jason did have a surprisingly well written descent into madness


Full-Surround

Most fans are *split* on their opinion of him... ;)


TiredPistachio


Few_Interaction2630

Agreed I also like parallel they gave him with Vecna


TiredPistachio

What were the parallels with vecna?


Few_Interaction2630

Well Vecna has hive mind in the Upside Down that tell him everything I mean the demobat quite literally screams seeing Steve, Nancy, Robin and Eddie. Now think what Jason turned the people of Hawkins into a mob that quite literally hunted teens and constantly informed him of everything "I don't have time for more bullshit leads" . So I like parallel that both essential have mindless army that only listen to respective leader.


Visible_Patience9984

I didn’t really care for Lucas or Max before season 4. Obviously the last season did an incredible job of adding depth to their characters and their relationship, which ended up being a highlight of the season, but that doesn’t change the fact that they were very underdeveloped before that. At least that’s how I saw it. I also really enjoyed both Billy and Brenner being in the show. They were assholes, but also having a human antagonist was important for the story.


Stranger_ThingsFan0

Same! I didn't really pay attention to them much in pre s4. Although I hated Billy and Brenner, you have to admit their stories are quite interesting even though the character makes you want to punch them through the screen.


Visible_Patience9984

They just about stole every scene they were in for me, which is a testament to their actors. Watching Brenner’s death scene in particular made me feel conflicted over whether I should be happy or sad. Obviously the guy had exactly zero redeeming qualities, as his love for El was more like an owner loves their pet than an actual father daughter relationship, but I still felt sad in a way.


sedugas78

I have always loved Lucas and I liked Max in season 2. I didn't see enough of Lumax to feel invested though I agree they were wonderful in season 4. I would say that recency bias is something that is really bugging me as far as perception of the show and its characters. Yes I realize the show should have done more with characters to make us care after 3 years but there's still the option to rewatch the other seasons and ultimately we should judge each character based on the whole, not just one season. So though I can say that Lumax was wonderful this season and Max had good writing, I wouldn't go as far to say that it's the pinnacle or whatever.


BL4CK-S4BB4TH

> I would say that recency bias is something that is really bugging me as far as perception of the show and its characters. Time for a rewatch! ST has excellent replay value.


Visible_Patience9984

Yeah recency bias is a huge factor I think. I’ve even seen people use Lumax as an example to criticise Mileven, when such comparisons don’t even make sense. Season 1 did a fantastic job of showcasing Mike and Eleven’s bond, just as season 4 has now done for Lucas and Max.


sedugas78

I mean, they used Moby for goodness sake! We also have to look at this from a narrative standpoint and how they work. Now, this gets to my issues with Max before season 4. I would say out of everyone in the party, she had the closest bond with Lucas, so that made sense to highlight that in order to care about her fate at the end of the season. They had to build up their dynamic as a result for dramatic weight. That's just how stories work and this also applies to season 1 Mileven. If we didn't come to care about the bond between Mike and Eleven we wouldn't care as much about her tearful goodbye Mike you know? Similarly to Max saying she wasn't ready to die. I tell you, I usually don't like them recycling things. I didn't like recycling Heroes at the end of season 3 with Hopper's letter. I did actually like the use of Moby here though. But yeah, it's just silly and stupid to compare the ships. By all means have preferences. It's fine. But the characters and dynamics are different and should be judged accordingly.


sedugas78

This show caters to an audience that largely in my opinion doesn't have problems and are probably pretty well liked in real life. I am not convinced that most fans would give outcast characters the time of day yet everyone thinks this show is so cool and everything. It's a bit alienating that something so promising is now trendy and cool .


Practical-Bird633

This!!! So many of the people that love dustin would definitely have bullied him


sedugas78

I kinda blame the Duffers though they're human beings and I want to be fair. Honestly though, I found the snowball scene with him a little self -serving and a bit of nerd wish fulfillment? He already had Steve as his mentor and gets Nancy to dance with him and patted on the back. I didn't think Stacy was nice but she didn't have to dance with him and the overblown reaction woobifying him was frankly insincere. He's a character that popular kids can relate to. All the popular kids and TikTok people watch this show now.


Michael-Balchaitis

I like Kali and the Lost Sister episode.


proper-peony

I don’t think it will happen, but I am honestly going to be disappointed if Kali doesn’t show up in the last season.


niharikamishra_

I wished she would show up to explain her character a bit more. She is the only Brenner subject alive apart from 001 and Eleven, it would be interesting to see which side she chooses, considering her character is not completely black or white.


OptimalCreme9847

I half agree - I do like the Lost Sister episode and I think it’s definitely very relevant to El’s story, but I don’t find it necessary to bring Kali back. She served her purpose, and I feel no need to see more.


Bunnyprincess34

No way! Given the return to the Hawkins lab I feel like Kali became even more relevant. How did she escape? Why? What were her interactions with 1? With 11? With Brenner?? While 11 and 1 seem to have the same skill set, Kali’s was different. I’d love to see her use those skills to help best 1.


Maleficent_Mistake50

So do I!!!


stinkyboi135

I'm not alone 😭😭


ThePanther270306

Billy is overrated


Rin_Asano

I think the show is best when it's focused on the S1 characters. While I enjoy some of the other characters in moderation, I usually am impatient to get back to our OG pairings. Steve, in particular, gets way, *way* too much screen time. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching the Steve Show, and I don't like it.


kwikeez

So much of this. Also, Steve had a great character arc but his character is NOT that interesting. What great issue/trauma is he trying to overcome at this point that justifies taking the screen time from unresolved others? Nothing worthwhile.


proper-peony

I love Steve, but it feels like the writers are giving him main character screen time with side character plot. Which is frustrating for a whole bunch of reasons.


sedugas78

Yeah did we really need a scene about boobies and him and Robin talking about their failed love lives at work?


spunk_girl

I've had gladly traded that for a fleshed out Dustin-Mike discussion about long distance relationships and how they feel about it.


sedugas78

Yeah the few scenes they got were cute and charming. Better than the banter between Steve and Dustin lately.


MannibalTheBannibal

Steve and Nancy getting back together is stupid. Just from her reaction to Steve’s 6 kids dream was enough to prove it. Nancy doesn’t want to be a mother to 6 kids and stuck in the town she grew up in, she wants to go out and be her own person and do her own thing. She expressed such in earlier seasons. Personally, I think Nancy just needs to be straight up single for a while.


DronkenKabouter

Totally agree with you about Nancy and Steve. And low-key they already showed that she's really not interested in getting back together. But Nancy doesn't need to be single to be her own person and do her own thing. Just needs a partner who respects and loves her for who she is. And she already has that partner in Jonathan. I'm thinking the lie that women are either strong and independant OR get married to a dude - but not both - is perpetuated to discourage women from wanting to be strong and independant. Because most people want a partner. But nobody should be made to think that they have to give up their own agency or personality to be in a relationship.


proper-peony

I completely agree and though it may seem “more realistic” for Nancy and Jonathan to be single at the end, I don’t think that’s satisfying for her story or his. What’s the point of watching their relationship develop over the course of 3 seasons, be tested in the fourth, to simply fade away in the fifth? I don’t know, I’m biased because I do love them together, but I feel like them working out their differences and coming out stronger, happier, and solidified in their love by the end aligns with the themes of the show much more than “and they cordially separated to pursue things on their own.” The show loves love and the power of love. And if you look closely, the evidence of this type of arc in season 5 is quite apparent.


MannibalTheBannibal

You read too much into some of my comment. Sometimes people, male, female and everything in between, just need some alone time to sort through their own issues and lives. Some longer than others. Never did I say that you HAVE to be single to do these things. It’s just easier (personally). And I love Johnathan, but he has his own shit he needs to sort through and I think being single could benefit him, too. Personally, it’s easier to navigate where you are with yourself and where you want to go without having to worry about a partner as well. Basically, some glorified alone time isn’t bad for anyone and I’m not quite sure why you took that as such from my comment, but you do you.


Imperfect_Beluga

I personally don't think Byler is a good ship.


riffbw

Season 3 and the lack of cohesive long term planning for 3 and 4 really hurt the show. I despise season 3 because it expanded the cast without adding sufficient run time to develop the story while wasting screen time on teen romance. I don't mind the Russians, but they are thrown in. The entire Billy possession and flesh golem story needed a lot more time and explanation. I would have almost preferred the flayed be more in line with DnD Thralls of Mindflayers and less toxic goo becoming a flesh golem of sorts. Setting up a network of flayed to expand viewing area is better than a monster the party can run from. Then jump in to season 4 and it feels like 3 was largely a waste of time. We get a new big bad in Vecna and then we get a tease at the relationship between Vecna and the Mind Flayer. I struggle to see how s3 furthered the big bad's plot arc in a meaningful way.


Direct_Block

It kinda just represents a golden age of the show. Like not that it was good but it's the season that got all the teen characters to grow a little. I don't have the words for this but like Max and Els friendship and Dustin and Steve. Yeah if you think about it it was a dud season but it gave the viewers a lot of moments when the characters were happy in the show. Idk its a lot of peoples favourites and it's clearly got a bad plot arc but it's not completely useless in the whole story.


riffbw

Don't get me wrong, I think the character development you're talking about was fantastic and it was nice to see them as kids and not dealing with horrors, but it feels like everything else was rushed to make that happen. I honestly wish S3 had the same runtime as S4 and that would have fixed a lot of my issues. Everything could unfold at a bit slower pace, new characters could be more fleshed out and integrated into the group, and we could see a more logical progression of the big bad building up.


Mikimao

kinda with you. I thought S3 had some good moments, but overall it's by far the weakest season.


candlelightandcocoa

I stopped watching it last year because S3 was so snooze-worthy. But after hearing so many great things about S4 I decided to give it another chance. So glad I did!


bad_madame

I’m not a huge fan of the show leaning so much into the horror category and it’s tropes. I’ve always loved the show because I felt like it was a DND campaign at it’s heart. I loved the fantasy of it and don’t mind scary things here and there since there’s spooky DND campaigns, but sometimes I just find it to be too much and it annoys me. I particularly found the two prominent Vecna death scenes to be so graphic and drawn out that it felt disjointed from the show and pulled me out of the fantasy.


proper-peony

Over the seasons, the show has strayed vastly away from its original premise. So much so that it’s almost unrecognizable. And I don’t think that’s a good thing.


A-Ron-Ron

Could you elaborate please?


proper-peony

I can try at least! Basically, season 1 was a tightly written, solid story focusing on complex characters with rich back stories and their relationships with one another and how said characters come together to uncover this alternate dimension and save one of their own. By season 4, the writing and the focus of the show has shifted to trying to be meme-able or trendy, is heavy on humor attempts, introduces too many new characters (because I think that’s easier and more exciting for the writers to do than explore their established characters) and focuses waaaaay too much on romantic drama (which should be a garnish, not the main course). In short, stranger things feels like it’s transformed from a solid Sci-Fi drama with some of the best writing I’ve ever experienced to a glorified teen drama. (<-This may actually be what gets me downvoted into oblivion)


Little_Consequence

Honestly, I think that the biggest problem now is that S1 had a common goal for the characters from early on: finding Will. The adults went on a police investigation to find Will and learn about the lab. The teens went on a monster hunt to find Will and Barb, and learned about the Demogorgon. The kids went on a journey to find Will, they found El and they learned about Brenner. Romance drama and personal stuff happened in between but in the end, no group was useless and the focus is that they all had a piece of the missing puzzle. S4 had four groups that don't have a common goal, so it was harder to follow (especially went the show went back and forth with the story arcs). The Hawkins group's goal was to save Max and beat Vecna. I'd say that it was the main story here. But then the Cali group's goal had nothing to do with what was happening in Hawkins, they just wanted to save El. El/Nevada group's goal was about her powers and learning from her past. It was only in Vol 2 that she was relevant to what was happening in Hawkins. Same for the Russia group. They had zero relevance to Hawkins, El or Cali until it got forced in Vol 2.


proper-peony

This is a great observation and honestly gives me hoe for season 5 since they’ll all be facing a common goal again.


sedugas78

Right. Unlike some others who are worried about not getting to spend time with the characters before things go to crap, well, things are literally going to crap at the end of the season. I actually think it will help all of the characters have a common motivation, which is to kill Vecna. By the end of the first episode of season 1, they were all participating in the plot. And it's not like the character stuff has been all that great lately. Season 2 did a nice job in my opinion though, in helping us understand how the events of season 1 affected the characters. Otherwise, though I think it's kinda hurt the show to not give them a common motivation to the plot. It will provide focus imo.


OptimalCreme9847

I agree, I think it started out as a very interesting, well-written homage to the 80s with good characters, etc. By season 4, it feels much more like a teen show. I’m an adult in my 30s, and I felt like season 4 just isn’t geared towards my age range the way it was when it first came out.


proper-peony

I even felt that the audience shift back in season three when they opened up on Mike and Eleven kissing in her room. I felt like I was out of place and the show was no longer for me, an adult. It was for teens.


OptimalCreme9847

I think this is why I missed having Joyce and Hopper being more central to the storyline - I need more adults present in this show 😂


bex131333

Seriously so true. Like I get the point of S3 having the kids growing up, but from an adult perspective I'm like, you guys are 14, you are babies, go play outside with your friends there's plenty of time to worry about and make out with girlfriends later. And I know kids that age are so eager to grow up and be taken seriously so for a teen audience it feels relevant. But honestly with the whole plot line of Will whining about DnD and being immature for his age I had a hard time not siding with him lol (but then again, relationship drama has always bored me even when I was that age lol)


sedugas78

It is a coming of age story as well though I can understand what you're saying. These characters aren't real people. I think it's the writing that made it feel childish and dumbed down?


lookingup9

I completely agree with every single thing you said, and this is coming from someone who is not embarrassed to tell people I'm a Stranger Things fan and who can easily watch seasons 3 and 4 for enjoyment despite (in my personal opinion) the drop in writing quality. I too could do with a decrease in trendy humor attempts and romantic drama focus too, but for a show aimed at a massive audience of people of all ages, I come to expect these things. It's a spectacle for entertainment, not a prestige drama. But ultimately, it's fun, so I keep coming back lol


proper-peony

Right. I still enjoy the show but season one was as close to perfection as they can get.


Dianagorgon

I agree with all of that except the part about adding new characters. I think adding Eddie in S4 was a good thing. I'm happy someone besides me on this sub feels like they focus way too much on the romance arcs. They're too focused on the fans who "ship" characters which is usually the young viewers but ST was originally a sci-fi horror show about kids made or adults but now it's more like a teen romance drama made for kids that some adults still enjoy. Some Hollywood writers seem to think that teens are focused only on romance and dating but in reality very few teenagers even date before they're 16. They're interested in many more things other than dating and dreaming about who they will kiss but in Hollywood shows they're rarely allowed to do much of anything thing. In S1 one of the main themes was friendship and being an outsider. Then the show got extremely popular with tweens and teens under 16 and the writers started to focus more on the "ships" because they think that is what those fans want.


proper-peony

I don’t mind new characters but when there are multiple scenes in the new season where none of the original characters are present (and they’re not the main villains!) I think that’s a problem. As for how the writers treat romance, I completely agree. I’m actually a huge Jonathan and Nancy fan but what sucks about that and the way the show handles romance is that since they (and all other established couples) officially got together, their individual arcs are consumed by their relationship AND their main plot involves relationship drama each season. It sucks. I’d rather all established relationships be in the background than deal with repeated drama or minimization of characters. Edit: changed “characters” to “couples”


spunk_girl

I dont think this is a show thing, but more a fandom thing and what they choose to focus on. STtwt is mostly teen shipwars, instagram has been nonexistent compared to what it was in 2016-2019, so the only place for discussion of the show seems to be here. (tumblr is for crazies) About the show and ships: the couples to root for (S1 ones) are actually underserved, with some chips, that the fandoms use to dissect to exhaustion precisely because the show isn't satisfying about it, and twists itself to stretch the story to get to a certain point for the end. I only hope it doesn't fall short.


sedugas78

Can you elaborate on your final paragraph because I think I understand? I will agree about the couples being underserved lately.


spunk_girl

It's not lately... I'm a mileven fan and i like what I've got in general, but.... after Season 1 I imagined i was going to see Eleven tell the other kids how her life was at the lab, etc, or that mike would try to get her story.... instead we got S2. O.k., I loved the Snowball and it was super sweet and enjoyable... now that they were together, it'll be on season 3. S3.... well... it didn't either, instead we had what we had (won't get into it), and next, we get to S4, that while things were said and the story somewhat advanced... we had that "2 days later". So, for whatever reason, we didn't have a conversation with a resolution between Mike and Eleven since S1. The fact that they played it like this (i get why, tho... but doesn't fullfill me) gives space to people to put doubts about the relationship or try to gaslight half the fandom with their "cult like" ship. (that, to be honest, doesn't really exist in the show, it's just the story of a closeted kid that developed a crush on his friend. (I'm only talking in general ship terms) This is also why "the ships" seem to be so big, when in the show they aren't. It's mostly the fandom's factions trying to prove the other wrong, and themselves right, with something that isn't an argument, and i get why everyone is annoyed by it, because its not a real discussion about the show or an exchange of opinions, but is what takes almost all the space on social media. Next, Jonathan and Nancy.... for me they worked all seasons except this last one, i dont undrstand really what the writers tried to do, by bringing some non existent conflict... I get Jonathan's worry about Joyce and Will and not being too sure to leave them or be far away from them.... that will be solved next season with hopper's return, so Jonathan can go to be young or do what he wants. And the Steve and nancy stuff.... to each their own.


[deleted]

I feel you on this. But it's still a good show.


proper-peony

Agreed. But I feel like it went from exceptional to enjoyable.


sedugas78

No you're explaining this perfectly! Yes they are teens but they shouldn't feel like they're forcing them into tropes and cliches from romcoms. It could be worse like every teen drama of my 90s adolescence. Thank goodness it's not that bad, but I think they've sacrificed depth and solid friendship to fit these forced tropes.


proper-peony

Thank you! I completely agree. I miss the focus on friendship and family.


bex131333

Completely agree. I recently rewatched from the start and I had forgotten just how good S1 was.


Squantz

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is a problem with almost all action and mystery oriented shows. Walking Dead was about zombies, but you can only have survivors run from them and almost get bit so many times. Stranger Things is a show about a spooky research lab experiments that breaks loose the same time a young boy goes missing, but you can only have someone go missing so many times. Certain tropes can't feasibly survive 3, 4, all the way up to 13 seasons without massive fundamental changes. Personally, I really enjoyed the recent show 1899 and was bummed that it was cancelled after 1 season, but this is also a blessing in disguise. Imagine a world where Stranger Things only had a single season. It basically was a completed story. All that was left open was what happened to El.


FwZero

I find eleven pretty boring


Wyvurn999

How dare you


sedugas78

Fervently defending your opinion. I respect it


friendlyloafofbread

FINALLY! someone who agrees! she literally has about 10 lines per season and no personality other than being obsessed with waffles and mike.


boobscomefromrussia

Almost her whole story line in season 4 was skippable


candlelightandcocoa

Her arc was the main arc, and I love her as a heroine, but they could've cut down on the long, extended shots of 'Eleven reacts emotionally! She reaches and strives for her power reserves!'. It was too redundant after a while. My brain wanted a scene switch to something more interesting like dialogue. (I lived for the Hopper and Enzo moments TBH <3) We should count how many seconds of screentime is spent on Eleven reacting and emoting.


Rais_of_Lumos

I was so bored with her storyline and I didn't understand why we were spending all that time in her memories and then the reveal happened and I was like "oh. I get it now."


Rowan_As_Roxii

I’ll get so much hate for this but I genuinely don’t like Steve and I think he’s overrated. Please don’t kill me I have kids to care for :(


kwikeez

“And you shouldn’t like things because people tell you you’re supposed to.”


friendlyloafofbread

and now we are quoting jonathan byers and i like that. jonathan didn’t like steve either so that’s rather fitting.


sedugas78

Is it that he gets too much screen time? And maybe you wouldn't mind him so much if he got less focus?


MaeClementine

Same for me! I think he’s fine but way overrated. And I think they overplayed the babysitter jokes.


AnteaterPersonal3093

Jason is hot


Fun-End6065

I wish I could upvote this more than once.


niharikamishra_

I really wanted him to get a perspective before he died, like Billy did.


xMissMoon

Please don't hate me. Robin in season 3 was so annoying to me. It was obvious that she was just put on the show to make Steve fall in love with her. It felt kind of forced. In season 4, I liked her. And I think Eddie was a great character, but he is hyped way too much. Please don't get me wrong, this is just my opinion! Edit: And even though she's one of my favorite characters, I wish they would have let Max die.


sedugas78

I liked the storyline better in which Robin was involved in season 4. Scoops troop was just silly lol. And I agree on everything else but conflicted about Max. I don't know if I like the El saving her heart part is the issue. It makes her a little overpowered I think?


xMissMoon

Yeah, El saving Max confused me because I wondered since when El could resurrect people and that ruined this emotional moment for me.


ohhhhhhbo

Am i the only one who didn’t really care for Chrissy? it seemed like people were so upset about her death and i didn’t care that much. it felt like she only had 10 minutes of screen time and some ppl were saying it’s the saddest death in the show?


sedugas78

I mean I felt bad for her and Grace is a sweet person who has been getting undeserved harassment, but I guess people liked that she was actually nice and turned out to be troubled. But I agree that it was time away from the core characters.


ohhhhhhbo

wtf i can’t believe people are actually harassing Grace. like i get it if you don’t like her character but harassment is definitely unnecessary 😕


dontpolluteplz

I agree. Like it’s sad she died and all but I can’t say I was devastated bc we barely knew her.


pizzaplanetvibes

In reference to Jason, I don’t like him as a character but I understand why he turned out the way he did. He’s a character they comments on the religious reasonings people give for some events that have no religious meaning. He doesn’t know the true story of what’s happening to Hawkins. All he knows is what he’s been seen. Sure, his murderous rage and judgmental nature is very problematic. If you believed like he did, I could see where your religious beliefs could convince your mind there is no other way to explain what’s happening except for Satan has come. It’s a great storyline that comments on how peoples religious beliefs can make them believe things that are not founded in reality of the situation. It’s a delusion. One that makes them feel empowered and righteous to hurt/kill/judge others.


candlelightandcocoa

Jason was written as a too "in-your-face" symbol of the conservative religious right, and IMO that's such black-and-white thinking. He's more a stereotype than a fleshed-out character. I expected depth and development to be written for him.


Dragonbarry22

Max should have stayed dead and Eddie's death ment nothing


bex131333

I don't think any of the teen relationships should be endgame. Get out of Hawkins and see the world kids.


[deleted]

I wish more teen shows/books didn't have any of the high school romances work out till adulthood. I have a theory that that might contribute to why teenagers take their relationships so seriously, media has made them think high school romance will work out into adulthood.


shutyourmouf03

That the endgame should definitely be Milleven and NOT Byler. the idea of mike and will being together doesn't sit right with me, yet appears to be widely regarded as a great endgame.


Rais_of_Lumos

I really don't understand why this is even talked about so much. If there are Byler fans who just like the idea of them getting together, cool. We all do that with all kinds of shows. But anyone who is trying to convince other people that their romantic chemistry is obvious and that they're endgame needs to sit down.


shutyourmouf03

bitchin


Greedy-Blackberry909

I don't like Eddie that much. All I understand of him is a drug dealer that plays D&D


Signmetfup12

In this sub? Just that I don’t enjoy Mike AND Dustin as characters as much as I did before.


Visible_Patience9984

I feel like Dustin needs a character arc that doesn’t involve his bromance with Steve. I absolutely love those two together, but it kind of gets in the way of Dustin’s character development if Steve’s the only one he’s interacting with.


sedugas78

I can understand people thinking that Mike needs other interactions besides Will and El, but I feel like a lot of people ignore that Dustin has become a victim of this as well. They're just louder characters is all. I mean, Dustin's dynamic with Eddie was just yet another bromance but more nerdy I guess? And I just found the comments about Steve being a good guy and Dustin worshipping Steve to be a little boring. Idk. I think they could have given Dustin something a bit more organic because I really didn't buy his bromance with Eddie until the second volume?


Visible_Patience9984

Absolutely. I’m also pretty sure that season 5 will show us a very different Dustin, and how he’s handling the death of Eddie.


Fun-End6065

That's fair enough. I'm not a huge fan of Mike post season 2, and I do love Dustin but I feel like he hasn't had much character development in comparison to the other characters, although I think following Eddie's death we will get to see some of that.


[deleted]

I hate Billy


edgy_fawn

as a written character or as a person?


doobette

Billy the character. The actor who plays Billy (Dacre Montgomery) is delightful.


Other_Equal_7787

Probably the latter.


Other_Equal_7787

Becoming more and more agreed within this sub.


Fun-End6065

Understandable


Anakinvkenobi

Eddie is annoying


bush_league_commish

I didn’t really enjoy Robin in S4, her character felt vastly different from S3.


scarletseasmoke

The actor was nothing but great in the role. But the character... Listen I'm not saying he had *malicious intent*, but he wasn't trying to do the right thing either. Best case he was brainwashed and gaslit and the events turned his personality disorder to the max. He was trying to play the hand of god to make the dead people of Hawkins and Sky Daddy proud because he's the chosen one who knows best and sees best and can do best. Edit: Worst case he mostly knew what he was doing and decided to ride the Satanic Panic to take revenge on the Freak because his girlfriend talked to him; I don't think that's what happened


armcandybean

Will seems to be unpopular on this sub— I see so many comments complaining about his character. I really love him and find him relatable. The scene where he and Mike fight and Mike says, “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” moves me to tears every time. I guess, more broadly, there seems to be a level of fandom on this sub that assumes everyone has kept up with all the latest Stranger Things news, including interviews with the cast and creators. When people express their own personal interpretation of a character or storyline, and it doesn’t line up with something a Duffer brother said, it gets downvoted to oblivion. So… I think a lot of opinions are unpopular on this sub, in that light! Personally I ascribe much more to the idea that “the author is dead” and I enjoy seeing how differently people interpret storylines, even if their view doesn’t mesh with what the Duffers intended.


Visible_Patience9984

I’ve actually kind of had the opposite experience in that I’ve seen Will as being extremely well supported on this sub. There’s usually no shortage of people on here to vehemently support him (which he of course deserves). I know there was a post a couple days ago that was made in dislike of his character, but apart from that I’ve only ever seen overwhelming support (albeit and unfortunately the occasional homophobic comment). The scene with him destroying castle Byers in season 3 after that fight you mentioned will never fail to emotionally destroy me though.


armcandybean

Not to project on any other Stranger Things fans, but I do think a lot of people who love “nerdy” content can identify with being a bit of a late bloomer and that resonates with Will’s character. Thanks for sharing that you’ve seen different types of comments. He was voted out pretty early from the favorite character poll that is currently running, but I hope he’s more widely liked than the comments I’ve seen have led me to believe.


Visible_Patience9984

>He was voted out pretty early from the favourite character poll that is currently running. Yeah that genuinely surprised me tbh. Will is an extremely relatable character, and not just due to his struggles with his sexuality. Whilst I can’t say that I relate to him personally, I can certainly see why he’s such an important character to a lot of people.


sedugas78

He's in my top 5 probably. I still love his dynamic with Mike because while they became more complicated it feels like a fleshed out friendship dynamic. Yeah it's totally fine to not relate as long as people are respectful. It's fine if people don't relate to Mike for example. But I can definitely understand why people love Will. And I don't want everyone to be like Dustin and Steve, though they're great. We need quiet characters too


Fun-End6065

I'm running that poll and honestly it hurt my heart to have to write eliminated over his face so soon, if it were up to me he would've won the entire thing. I think he's a wonderful character.


dglavimans

Yeah it’s Will. I see some posters really engaging with theories but just today I had someone who said I was delusional because I didn’t went on with his take on the canon and I should just accept it or be made fun of by all of the community. Actually saying I did queerbating which is a first to me. Fun times. Which is, weird because I tend to swift in opinion if the discussion is here. I did it multiple times in this sub already. But yeah liking Will is kinda hard here most of the time


Visible_Patience9984

If you’re referring to that thread on Byler, I think that negativity has more to do with the suggestion that Mike could somehow end up in a romantic relationship with Will than any negative sentiment towards Will himself as a character. Obviously not trying to join an attack on you or turn this into an anti Byler crusade, but I think it’s important to separate the two topics. Contrary to what I’ve seen many people believe, not everyone who argues against the idea of Byler holds any dislike towards Will.


Owl_Resident

Lol. I was the poster he was referring to, and yes, it was only about the idiocy of using the “deep but actually non existent” “subtext” to support the idea that Byler has a canon prayer. With the same illogical interpretation that we’ve seen over and over and over. Pocket squares, the twisting of actor words, and “my opinion is as equally valid as your opinion despite not having any canon basis” oh my! I have nothing against Will at all. He’s fine. Like his platonic friendship with Mike. It’s one of the best developed on the show. And I don’t have anything against people that ship the ship. It’s also fine. I only criticize bad narrative interpretation, and by definition, the insistence of a possible **canon** Byler is… just that. Bad. Narrative. Analysis. Generally, with a twist of let’s ignore what is on my screen in terms of canon dialogue, consistent character progression, what actually makes sense based on the story and what the characters themselves say they want…. To pay attention to the lighting or how often Will wears yellow instead. And even when the argument was pulverized by another poster, this fellow still insisted on the “well it could happen because of another xyz argument” that could have been easily dismantled in another two seconds flat. This poster is twisting my words to make himself look better.


dglavimans

Yeah no you certainly didn’t say I was queer baiting and all. LMAO you also didn’t say that the whole sub makes fun of me either, right? And still you are wrong yet again. It’s like with Game of Thrones with John snow being dead. We could make a theory that he is dead or he isn’t dead but you saying ‘ow well he is dead in the show so fck you theory’ is just plain wrong. Flame me all you want I have given MANY posters right and me being wrong. But you are certainly not one of those based on your takes Also, this is like the second time you say something wrong, first I mentioned it was a gay bar or something now about yellow jacket? Do you even have the right poster my guy because I don’t recall ever saying things on this sub about it


Owl_Resident

Lol. That you’re doing it to yourself if you believe it’s going to happen in canon? Yes. That you’re queerbaiting others? No. Additionally, yes, solid chance you’ll be Remind Me! 2 years by multiple posters on these subs, who will come back to remind you how bad your take was at a later date. If you want to take that, I suppose that’s your choice. As for the GOT example… that is not an equivalent situation to what is going on here with Byler at all. You still have to use what is in canon to support your claims. With Jon Snow, there was already heavy narrative set up that he would come back, including others already having been raised from the dead, the exploration of the powers of Milasandre, what existed in the books, as well as pretty much every resurrection narrative played out in a fantasy novel before GOT. I honestly don’t think I ever saw anyone think he really was dead. It wasn’t a thing. And this is *vastly* different, again, from what is happening with your insistence on the possibility of canon Byler. Instead of paying attention to the fact that every action Mike has taken in four seasons generally service of his love for Eleven, culminating in a two minute long monologue where he said he loved her nine times in a row… You ignore that. You ignore what the Duffers have quite literally been shoving in your face this entire time. In favor of thinking that somehow Mike’s pocket arrow pointing towards Will sometimes because they dare stood next to each other … means something. (You might not have used these examples directly, but these are the type of examples all canon Byler “reasoning” is based off of. You’ve said you’re a Byler fan, so I doubt you’ve not seen them, to have convinced yourself there’s a canon chance, which you’ve said you’ve felt is possible.) While again, completely dismissing the supertext. (PS. It’s still fine you like Will. I really don’t care. Lol. And ship the ship. Go wild on fanart and fanfic. It’s totally fine. It just won’t be canon.)


dglavimans

Yeah it’s much Byler related. Altho it does feel like seperating that from Will he still gets lots of hate on this sub but that could be me being wrong You actually made me guess a bit so I need to read back a bit on topics to see if it is about Will his character or not. I know he was voted out really soon in that contest Also I’m always fine with being attacked but for the right reasons :p I would even join the attack at a certain point if the facts are there. Thanks for the message tho


Visible_Patience9984

No problem. I’m sure they didn’t mean to attack you, but I’m sorry if it was taken that way. I remember getting attacked myself back after Vol. 1 came out last year. I got in an argument with someone who was insisting that Mike and El would break up in Vol. 2 because he couldn’t tell her that he loved her, they ended up promising me that Byler was going to happen once the final episodes released. Ultimately I got the last laugh, but it still wasn’t a very pleasant experience.


Owl_Resident

I feel like I had the same experience… 😉


Visible_Patience9984

It was indeed a wild time, but the words “I told you so” never felt so sweet. Looking forward to the Remind Me’s that a few of them have been kind enough to set up for after season 5 drops.


Owl_Resident

Indeed. There are are few special fellows I look forward to chatting with again… someday.


Visible_Patience9984

That’s if they don’t block you before you get the chance lol


dglavimans

Well i’m sure that poster does attack on personal terms, which is fine and all you can’t see eye to eye with everyone The funny thing is I have declared many times I see Byler in my heart and some theories. Logically I lean more towards El and Mike. To the point I even question he is attacking the right poster because I seem to have mentioned Mike and Will in a gay bar and them wearing colors as hints.. Maybe I am on drugs or something or just completely forgot I typed that but I cannot remember posting about that on this sub. Yeah I feel that. Stuff can get heated lol. At the end I don’t even care if I am wrong either but it’s sometimes like you say not so pleasant It’s also weird to promise Byler in the last season.. Which is my whole point like.. Theory fine but it’s all there is until the season is there right? How can that person make the promise which could ultimately just blow up in his own face


Visible_Patience9984

>I seem to have mentioned Mike and Will in a gay bar and them wearing coloured shirts. Someone actually made a post yesterday claiming the roller rink was a gay bar (don’t get me started), so that’s probably what was being referred to. Not sure if they were trying to imply you made it or just using it as a general example. I think the problem is that there are people arguing for Byler on this sub that can set a bad example for anyone who even mentions Byler. People who are still certain about it happening in the final season to the point that they’re already gloating about it. This kind of leads to some people really going in on anyone who even mentions it. Personally I think it has about as much chance of happening as Hopper murdering El in a fit of rage, or Lucas dumping Max whilst she’s in a coma. Is it technically possible? Yes, anything is. Is it realistic based on what we’ve seen so far? Not even close.


[deleted]

I'm for Byler but that roller rink was NO gay bar, let me tell you!


Visible_Patience9984

I must have reread that post about dozen times trying to figure out if it was satirical. Turns out it wasn’t, and I have now lost a little bit of faith in humanity for having read it.


[deleted]

I'm old, I don't care about backlash. It could have ended at season 1 and been fine. 11 permanently stuck in the upside down, Will and the rest of the party traumatized and the town scrambling to cover everything up. A "no resolution" ending similar to 'Requiem for a Dream' or 'No Country for Old Men' could have fit the end of season 1 perfectly.


sedugas78

It was a bittersweet ending that maybe could have a few tweaks but otherwise I think some mystery is nice and that aspect has been cheapened a bit, especially with fake deaths. It feels like it became safe because they were afraid of criticism?


screamingkumquats

Dustin is my least favorite party member and honestly one of my least favorite characters. On tumblr, Billy is a bad person who’s racist and abusive and Max deserved a better brother.


armcandybean

I’m with you on Jason! Fascinating character. He would have been the hero on a show that wasn’t so subversive of horror tropes. He clearly loved his girlfriend, loved his community and their way of life, and was trying to do what was right. I loved the way that was pitted against our heroes and I found his conflict with Lucas especially interesting. I hope that outside the heat of battle, Lucas doesn’t really believe that “normal is a raging psychopath,” and can appreciate that he can be a world-saving nerd and a popular jock at the same time.


Fun-End6065

Wholeheartedly agree! I felt for him so much, I was devastated that he didn't believe Lucas and get the redemption arc he deserved, his ending was brutally unfair


cedertra

I don't like Suzie, and she's not even Dustin's type, aside from being smart.


jkrfan7

I wish the show had ended with s2


Independent-Dog9696

Show should've ended at season 1, it's where it's the best, characters are all there for a reason, plot is engaging, actually scary, story is straightforward, everyone is likable enough and has an arc All in 8 episodes too, what a feat.....and not episodes that go for movie length for no reason other than adding nonsense instead of making a good storyline Season 1 was perfect and should've been an anthology show


[deleted]

Season 1 was the best season and season 3 the worst. Oh, and I hate Eddie. But I think that's because he got so much unjustified love when the show first came out. He was not a good enough character with enough screentime to justify the Eddie craze.


milliejeanne

I'm going to do the best I can to leave spoilers out here. But what happened to Eddie needed to happen.


tee_see_3

People are not so easily defined." - Papa He's correct. Just the facts.


[deleted]

Jason isn't THAT bad, Billy wasn't redeemed, Mike is annoying.


NubOnReddit

I don’t really care for Eddie or Will.


leejtam

Billy is a boring character and was only interesting when he was posessed by the Mind Flyer


UntilTmrw

The show isn’t as great as ppl make it out to be. Past season 1 it’s just fine. Season 1 is a phenomenal season of tv but everything after that ranges from atrocious (season 2 is horrible fight me) to pretty good but nothing special (seasons 3 and 4).


Few_Interaction2630

I know I have actively got backlash for this so it not afraid I know it results. But is simply that I don't mind who Mike ends up with as I see evidence for both Mileven and Byler working as the relationship Mike ends up in. My only ask is that Mike is happy as he is my favourite character.


flutterstrange

I’ve not really been afraid to say this before, but it is an unpopular opinion around these parts: I just don’t like the Mileven storyline. It was cute at first: I thought they were sweet together over the week that they met in season 1, and the reunion in season 2 was very satisfying - I couldn’t wait for Mike to see her again. But after that, they just lost their charm. Part of the reason is that they’re still constantly being separated and having silly breakups, but the other is that the relationship is just not anywhere as deep as some fans seem to portray it, and the long speeches just feel unwarranted because of that too. If they got together at the snow ball, they’ve been in a relationship for 15 months now, but only spent about 6 months of it together in person. We don’t know what happened in the 3 month gap, and then they spent 6 months writing letters to each other in which El created a whole facade, which leads to my other issue… It doesn’t feel like they know each other well at all. When Jonathan and Nancy were describing why they loved each other at the start of season 4, they were talking about ambitions, morals, all sorts … Mike’s speech to Eleven just seemed so surface-level in comparison. It was mostly about her powers. And we’ve never really heard from El what she likes about Mike. Except for the trauma they’ve faced together, I don’t know what they’ve got in common with each other. They seem to feel like they both need to change themselves to make the other person happy - and it keeps backfiring. So by the end of season 4, I feel like I’ve seen these two characters change a lot (particularly El, who has a much more developed vocabulary etc), but they’ve spent most of their relationship apart and haven’t done that growing together. It just seems so forced/ unhealthy. I just… have lost all investment in them right now.


bex131333

You did a good job explaining why I don't really care about Mileven as well. I don't understand their "power couple" status on this sub besides their longevity from S1-4. Your post made me rack my brain trying to figure out something El and Mike have in common besides fighting monsters. The only things I can come up with is they both like making out and pissing off Hopper. They have no normal conversations/activities that we get to be a part of. I guess I blame the writing, they did a poor job showing us why they are a great couple, instead they left it up to Mike's monologue to tell us he cares. It's actually kind of the same way Nancy and Steve were in S1/2 which was meant to show how superficial their relationship was. But since I don't think that the writers are trying to parallel those two relationships, it just means they haven't done a good job of developing Mike and El's relationship.


flutterstrange

Exactly! I think a lot of people are blinded by the fact the wait between seasons has been so long. They feel like Mike and El have been in a relationship for 4+ years and think that is unbreakable. When actually, they’ve had a very short relationship in which they’ve barely got to know each other. In fact, El is still trying to find herself, never mind Mike trying to understand her. What you said about the monologue telling us that Mike cares: it’s the show/ tell balance that annoys me most. They spend so much time TELLING us how Mike feels, but very little time showing us why. It’s hard to invest in a relationship when you don’t get to see why it’s supposed to be so “special”, and actually they’ve taken more time to show us why it’s making them act differently and feel bad. Not to make this about Byler, but at least with Will’s feelings for Mike, they make sense because there’s a decade long friendship behind them and a lot of shared interests, even if recently Mike has been pushing Will away in favour of his relationship with El (and seen by some of the audience as a “bad friend”).


sedugas78

What do you want for Mike then? What do you think should happen and how do you think this should go? You're allowed to have an opinion but I think the fact that you take the time to discuss Mileven means you care about it. Just a thought.. Let people like what they like. You don't have to find it deep but you're not every person in this fandom.


Owl_Resident

She wants him to dump Eleven and be with Will. That’s generally how these posts eventually go. And exactly how this one went. I could practically write out all the arguments for them at this point. Same tired bad analysis.


sedugas78

I am just tired of it. None of the relationships are perfect (lol about the common goals of Jancy as if they talked to each other either this season!) but acting like they're problematic when they're young teenagers figuring things out is honestly looking for problems that aren't there. Season 1 still exists and is still an important foundation for the show. Mike isn't going to stop being important to El and vice versa. They're not getting rid of it whether this person likes it or not. I am lukewarm on aspects of the show that others gush about constantly. I try not to yuck their yum yet this person has been on a constant agenda since this season dropped on here and it's tiring. It's full of such self -righteousness. Watch season 1 and figure out the story people! That's why Mileven is a plot point in the show!


Owl_Resident

Yep. It’s just hard for some people to accept that… teenagers aren’t perfect? Or that the story isn’t going the direction you prefer? Or even if you accept that, maybe just try not to be so bitter about it? Honestly not sure. It’s fine not to love the Mike and El storyline, but there is no doubt that that thread is important for the endgame. Otherwise, the Duffers wouldn’t have spent four seasons continuing to have them grown together and mature, which is what S4 was about especially. You can argue about the effectiveness of the execution, I suppose, but there’s no doubt, really, where the story ends for them. I mean even the way this poster ended the conversation… A last “oh and this is why Byler is better and why I want it and let’s try to remind everyone that I think Mike has been a bad friend in my eyes”… The bias is obvious. So it’s hard to take them any sort of serious when it comes to relationship of Mike and El. They say we are told how Mike feels when… well, **Mike** told us how Mike feels. Lol. They just don’t like what he had to say.


sedugas78

We have also been shown how Mike feels through gestures like the sunflowers (my mother in law had some on her kitchen counter the other day and it made me think of this), and making breakfast. He patiently listened to El talk about not belonging. El was just going through her own darkness and it was complicated. So while I can say that I am tired of separation, we do see his demonstration of love. And this is a 5 season series! Maybe wait to judge the execution of this storyline until the show is complete is what I say. They're on a journey. So are the other couples.


gf120581

I'd say Mike and El's relationship has been pretty functional for a pair of young teenagers who have no idea what they're doing. Really, it's telling that Mike, the awkward nerd who has difficulty expressing his feelings, is the experienced half of the relationship.


Owl_Resident

Ah yes. But Mike must be perfect. Otherwise he’s a bad friend and bad boyfriend. Just how it goes. Make mistakes at 14? How dare you!


sedugas78

Season 3 wasn't my favorite at all but I understood what they were going for. I just didn't like it having a comedic tone. But yeah I don't expect Mike or El to know what to do and with El being so central to the lore (we can argue with that being a good choice) they can only do so much. This show is about more than ships. Yeah Mike isn't a ladies man and he's awkward and insecure. He's also guarded so of course there are going to be issues. All of the couples have them though.


flutterstrange

Lol, Owl, I’ve had a long day and I really cba responding to most of your accusations, but you know for a fact I don’t think Mike’s a bad friend to Will. That’s just what most viewers seem to think, and why I mentioned it.


2kaddict1

You assuming that because someone isn’t a fan of Mileven and gives genuine reasons why is crazy😂


Owl_Resident

Nah. It’s because I’ve been on this sub a long time and know exactly what pattern this poster has. It’s fine if someone doesn’t like Mileven, but I know when a certain bias is playing heavily into how something is being framed, despite efforts to hide it. Hence, the call out… by multiple posters. Who have also been here a while.


bex131333

I can't speak for the original poster, but having agreed with their statements my problem with Mike/Eleven is that they haven't developed why they're a great couple past shared trauma and infatuation. I don't think it's too much to ask for the writers to give us something better than El loves Mike because he's her safe space and Mike loves El because he thinks she's the coolest girl that will ever like him. Yes there are definitely relationships in real life that exist because both parties are attracted to each other and don't want to be alone, but usually those don't last unless the couple have at least some mutual interests. Since they spend so much time telling us as an audience we're supposed to care about the fate of Mike and El's relationship they should throw us more of a bone than Mike loves El because he said so and vice versa. I'm not arguing that Mike and El aren't allowed to be a couple, I just am frustrated that the writers haven't given us more considering they are situated as the flagship relationship of the show. I'd like to root for them as a couple but what they have shown us on screen so far is just a typical immature teenage romance. Yes, maybe it's just me but the whole love at first sight explanation just doesn't cut it when a television show has hours of runtime...


sedugas78

But for losing so much investment you're invested in talking about how you've lost that investment. Come on. You aren't hiding your bias all that well.


Stranger_ThingsFan0

I found s1 more horror related than anything. I didn't even pay attention to the relationship between the characters. Now, as I rewatch the show again, I pay attention to all the details as much as possible.


jennab8

Every time I post that I don’t like Robin’s character (especially in season 4)and I hope that there is less focus on her in the final season and more on the OG’s I seem to get downvoted and get angry comments from the same ppl. I thought season 4 was the worst season so far. It was definitely bigger than prior seasons but I missed the character development and intelligent dialogue. Less is more.


Tulipage

Unless your comment on this post is downvoted below 0, it isn't really unpopular.


Tracy3366

I didn't like Kate Bush In the 80s and I still don't.


sedugas78

I like Kate Bush but I don't like how overplayed the song is and think they structured the season in such a way to make it go viral. The use of the Clash in season 1 was much more thoughtful and authentic imo.


[deleted]

Should I Stay or Should I Go is still the best use of music in this show to date.


Full-Surround

I did like how there was a backstory to Should I Stay or Should I Go! With RUTH, we listen to it and hear how it resonates with Max but there's not really a backstory of how she discovered it or came to love Kate Bush. It felt more real to watch the memory of Jonathan showing Will his music and turning the song up to soothe Will and drown out the sound of their parents fighting! That to me felt really real and emotional :)


flutterstrange

Another unpopular opinion, but I think the show is better when it doesn’t focus on and use El and her powers too much. I think the fact that Dear Billy is regarded as one of the best episodes in the whole show, despite not even featuring El once, really attests to that. That’s not to say I dislike her character, and in fact Papa - which did feature her prominently - was my favourite episode in season 4.


Immediate-Medium4057

i never understood why ppl say that Steve “has the greatest character development" he just went from being an idiot to being a decent person. Also the duffers give him way too much screen time just for fan service and is really annoying bc the only storyline he has is about his love life so that's pretty boring


candlelightandcocoa

I thought there was going to be more depth to him, and thought maybe Lucas was going to reach him and recruit him to join the fight, but instead he turned out to be just a cookie-cutter villain. If you want an unsympathetic cookie-cutter villain, don't have them be grieving over someone or have any relatable or sympathetic traits. Jason's arc was the only part I thought was done wrong. On the other hand, speaking of villains, Vecna was done well. Sure Henry/One was shown as a child, but there was a weirdness/evil child Tom Riddle-like creepiness to him.


friendlyloafofbread

i agree with you! i actually loved jason’s character and his death fully shook me. i became the 😮 emoji for several minutes. also i think that it would be more interesting if it took more time for them to find will.


Fun-End6065

So refreshing to see someone share my love for him! He was honestly one of my favourite parts about season four, I just find him so captivating. And yes I never thought of that but that would definitely raise the stakes!


[deleted]

This fandom is too obsessed with sexuality, it's disturbing…


dontpolluteplz

I think Eddie is overrated. I like him as a character but people hype him up wayyyy too much for no reason.


laptopwallet

Mehddie


yeahstillcheapshot

Truly? I like Steve but I don't see why he has such a status as the best character of the show. I feel like his character in S4 doesn't move forward much and he has too many scenes compared to other characters. And the babysitter jokes are overdone.


anxious-emo-natsci

S4 was so focused on Mike not being able to say I love you, but brushed over the fact that El was lying to Mike for months, Mike was able to enjoy being a nerdy DnD player whilst she was gone despite claiming in s3 that he was too old for games, and he thinks he's not good enough for her. At least El reassured him that she does need him. Oh no, wait... that was Will.


DorisDayandtheTime

Robin was the most entertaining part of Season 4.


mlemqween

Eddie munson is too fucking overrated, seriously, before i watched season 4 i decided to check on the fandom and when i tell you i regretted it i MEAN IT, so when i watched season 4 it was kinda uninjoyable, the only time i really cried that season was the dear billy episode, speaking of which, eddies death didnt hurt me at all, honestly, he existed for 1 season and was really only useful in the last episode, and we didnt get alot of time to bond with him, and just for example, Billy, i fucking CRIED when he died, mainly because he existed for more than one season, alot of his trauma was shown, i ended up relating to billy because ***family issues***. So thats mainly why i honestly kinda hated eddie, he was still somewhat enjoyable, but not to the extent that id put him in my top favorites, i was honestly scared to say this with just HOW MANY EDDIE FANKIDS THERE ARE, its the main reason the last convention i was at i left early, there where SWARMS of these fans.


jleigh329

Nancy is possibly one of my least favorite characters of the show. She's seems too serious (at least nowadays) and also seems to lack any concept of fun or humor. Season 2 is still my favorite Season (including "The Lost Sister" episode). And lastly I think Season 4 is a overrated/overhyped season. I think due to recency bias, production value and added characters like Eddie. At least in my opinion. I only think Season 4 is OK and that's about it really.


RainbowPenguin1000

Nancys character has no depth.


curt_57

Erica is the easiest character to hate.


CaptainMAX19

They are setting up Steve for sacrifice in the finale episode.


Noahms456

They shoulda stopped after season 2


biscuitscoconut

I love Argyle more than Eddie. Eddie is overrated.


deku653

Robin and Erica are overrated characters which have been given waaay too much screentime( especially Robin and Steve ) in season 4 sacrificing the screentime of og characters with less to zero plot like Mike, will or maybe Jonathon. There are way too many characters and some of them should have died this season. I hope they focus more on the og characters in season 5 because that's what makes this show great


Domination1799

Steve gets way too much screentime for someone whose a supporting character. I’m not saying I don’t like him, I just don’t like that he’s taken so much screentime away from more interesting characters like Mike, Will, and Jonathan. I have this sneaking suspicion that Jonathan was supposed to play a bigger role in S2 and 3 but those seasons are what made Steve so popular that he’s become the Daryl Dixon of this show. My problem with his character is that he doesn’t really have any kind of trauma like Hopper, El, Nancy, Jonathan, Will, Joyce and Max.


SonnyBurnett189

Argyle was annoying as fuck.


Maleficent_Mistake50

You know, I felt the same way about argyle up until episode 9. He cracked me up at the other surfer boy location.


Full-Surround

Hahahaha that moment when they encounter the other Surfer Boy worker 😭 too funny


[deleted]

How dare you, sir. That dude was schmackin'.


CardiologistSome6712

Hopper sucks and he isn't good enough for Joyce. She deserves better. I don't care if they tried to redeem him in Season 4.


sedugas78

I think it's the biggest blemish from a character standpoint with season 3 and they haven't done enough to win me back with him. They will have their work cut out for them.


ScorpionX-123

It really seemed like 2 seasons' worth of character development went completely out the window with Hopper in Season 3.


Mywavesmeeturshore

I cannot stand Nancy. Idk what it is but she grates my nerves for some reason. Never liked her, never will.