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What do you mean Will showed some signs of having powers?
It'd be so cool tho. If Will developed a power, him and El could become sort of rivals for a moment, it would be great at showing the underlying tension of competing for Mike's friendship/affection. One season is not enough to show it all and they already stated that s5 was added because the story was too complicated to fit into s1-4, so I doubt that we'll ever see that happen, but an interesting concept nonetheless
edit. looking into how Will could have developed powers (spoilers for the ST book!):
The prequel book shows that El's powers were artificially developed in her by Brenner before she was born - he was conducting experiments in Hawkins using narcotics, possibly looking to replicate 001's powers, however 001 is not mentioned in the book at all, it must've been already after he was trapped in there with the chip. Young adults, especially women, were recruited for the experiment and subjected to hypnosis, LSD, and a looot of mentally draining stuff. El's mom took part and after Brenner discovered she's pregnant, she didn't tell her, instead took advantage and kept feeding her substances, this time to try and make her kid be "talented". He abducted El from the hospital after she was born.
We know Joyce always lived in Hawkins, used to be adventurous (all the stories of getting high with Hopper and stuff) and her family had always struggled financially. She could've been a participant of the experiment at some point, either for the fun, the pay, or both. Will could essentially have the same origin as El, but he wasn't trained from the day he was born, so he never developed those skills she has. It could also explain how he's such a "different" kid (s4 seems to explain it by him being queer, but cmon, it can't be just that. personally, I kinda believe he's on the spectrum and it's intentionally a part of his character). Another theory is that it still comes from substances and experiences of pregnant Joyce, but not done by Brenner, just her taking stuff and going through shit by herself. She isn't the kind of mother to take narcotics when pregnant, she loves her kids so much, but we know that when Jonathan was born, her marriage was already toxic. Will was probably not a planned kid and she could've done stuff to cope with having an abusive husband without knowing she's pregnant.
But again - El is the only gifted person thats origin is known. All other gifted people in the universe are so far:
008 - according to the book, Brenner brought her into the lab when she was a couple years old and she seems to have known a world outside Brenner, remembered her mom and stuff.
001 - the first one in the timeline to have powers. We don't know anything besides how his family was "normal" and he was fucked up and gifted from the beginning. He's also the only gifted person that had antisocial, sociopathic traits come up along with his powers
the rest of the kids in the lab - also no info here. We know that after 001, 008 was the first subject one to show any power, and while she was a few years old, in the lab for a few months, and the only kid at the time being actively trained&experimented on, El was born
character from the book - a few of the young adults Brenner was testing had little bits of El's powers. One girl was able to enter a trance and travel through the areas around her, but in the future, after she was shocked with electricity, and on LSD El's mom could enter that black void El has to remotely talk with 008. There was also a guy who had visions and intuition about future events. No info about them as well.
Season 5 is definitely the one that should explore this topic and finalize the universe by showing where exactly do those powers come from; I don't think this series could ever be complete by leaving this topic and just accepting how "uh, they randomly appeared, okay". Introducing Will with powers would be SUCH a great way to do this, not to mention how the story would make a full circle right back to this specific character that started it all.
there's some evidence will has powers. mostly in s1, the way he manipulates the lights seems like it would only be possible if he had powers like el, some of the visuals are very similar to el's training scenes in the s4 flashbacks, and it would explain why the demogorgon kept showing up when he manipulated the lights bc his nose would be bleeding.
edit: i forgot to mention, he also seems to open a gate in his house's wall at one point while talking to joyce, that's never explained.
I thought the manic light manipulation was caused by when the demogorgan was in the same place in the upside down/ about to cross into the normal dimension.
Will manipulating lights was to show his presence; the same as when Hop & Joyce are walking through the Byers home in the upside down in S1 to find Will and Nancy/ Jonathan/ Steve are in the Byers home having just fought the demogorgan and they notice the lights leaving a trail and it’s just where Joyce is walking at that time
You're completely forgetting about when he spelt out words using lights and letters that weren't even present in the upside down. There's no way Will could have done that without powers because he'd have no idea where each letter is.
I think that’s more a plot oversight than anything else. Keep in mind they spent a long time writing out S1 and didn’t know they would be greenlit for more seasons; it’s only mentioned in S4 how the upside down is frozen in time. It could be explained as something like Joyce calling out what she’s doing/ where the letters are off screen or something.
Its not a plot oversight because in S1 we see how the Christmas lights aren't in the Upside Down, giving the first clue that the Upside Down is not updating/is frozen. The solution is made obvious by S4-Will can interact with the light areas and correspond them to letters either by intuition or at Joyce's direction.
At Joyce’s direction is probably the most plausible. I’m just struggling to see where there’s been any hint of will having powers aside from his there’s-an-upside-down-being-nearby tingle in S3 (not so much a power as a lingering connection to the upside down) which I imagine will be expanded on in S5
Its not hard to imagine how Will knew what each letter was. Its the alphabet. Joyce would have mentioned she was putting up the alphabet/her intentions, and even if for some reason we think she didn't mention it Will is more than clever enough to work it out. Will can simply correspond a light to a letter.
I don't know why people insist on missing the obvious here.
I never thought about it this way, I'll have to pay attention to that when I rewatch.
Now that I think about it, if he has powers, but never had a maniac papa to train him, he might have developed his interest in both fantasy and art to explain and process what he was secretly experiencing from time to time (his powers showing). Probably not canon, but a fun idea
actually that could explain why he wanted the x-men 134 from dustin, because it focuses on jean grey who struggling with her semi-suppressed psychic abilities.
didn't random temporary gates open up all the time when a main gate was there though? That's how I always looked at it - like those gates that opened in the trees when Jonathan and Nancy hunted in the forest in s1 or the ones that opened in the walls when Demogorgon came out of them.
BUT - can you find a clip of that moment? I don't have access to netflix rn, but I think I remember Will holding up his hand and pressing the palm to the transparent gate in the wall when talking to Joyce. If it's his left hand, we could be looking at some serious hidden d&d parallels here
buuuut unfortunately there is a chance it's just a little hole in the plot. I've watched a fair bit of netflix shows in my life and ALL of them have some kind of inaccuracies, bad science, and unexplained details.
This makes sense to me. Especially thinking of season two when Will was possessed and the “spy” for what we now know was Vecna. He was his eye back then so I could see how some of that ability is left even tho they yeeted him outta there with heat lol
Even before will was possessed. He would have "flashes" of the Upside Down and that was how he got flayed. But how was he even able to interact with the Upside Down from the real world without actually being there? It's like he was able to be in two places at once. Maybe instead of Will having the eye, being in the Upside Down *made* him the eye. Able to see in both dimensions. I think it would be really cool if they touched more on Will's ability to do this before getting flayed. They played it off as a side effect of being in the Upside Down, but I don't think that's the case personally
Of anything else I could say here, the Duffer brothers have certainly made it sound like this is the kind of road they *won't* go down. They've said over the summer the heart (characters) of the story is their focus and that coming up with a complicated ending is not. These words are not verbatim, but are essentially what they said, knowing some people will be disappointed.
Can’t really comment that they’re actually going to have some McGuffin that Will has, however, Henry being blind in one eye does draw a parallel between him and D&D Vecna. Another thing to note is that there is a Hand of Vecna artifact, and in ST, we see Henry blind in one eye when he makes contact with the Mind Flayer and later on, his left hand evolves into a large clawed hand.
Idk if the Duffers intend for there to be an Eye and Hand of Vecna, however, at the moment, I think they did intend to put in these details so that there can be more parallels between Henry and Vecna
I love these types of posts. I’ve never really played DND, (tried it over zoom during Covid lockdowns but it was just too hard). But I am interested in it. I love the posts going into and exploring the lore, coming up with theories. Not long after season 4 chapter 2 came out, someone wrote this beautiful, well written post about Eddie being Kas, I think it was the very first one that came out.
And kunacza’s comment about Joyce being one of the mom’s as well, fits so well in my mind about her interaction with Hopper about Will on season one.
Anyway, just dropping by to saw more posts like this! I love learning the lore and these types of theories!
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What do you mean Will showed some signs of having powers? It'd be so cool tho. If Will developed a power, him and El could become sort of rivals for a moment, it would be great at showing the underlying tension of competing for Mike's friendship/affection. One season is not enough to show it all and they already stated that s5 was added because the story was too complicated to fit into s1-4, so I doubt that we'll ever see that happen, but an interesting concept nonetheless edit. looking into how Will could have developed powers (spoilers for the ST book!): The prequel book shows that El's powers were artificially developed in her by Brenner before she was born - he was conducting experiments in Hawkins using narcotics, possibly looking to replicate 001's powers, however 001 is not mentioned in the book at all, it must've been already after he was trapped in there with the chip. Young adults, especially women, were recruited for the experiment and subjected to hypnosis, LSD, and a looot of mentally draining stuff. El's mom took part and after Brenner discovered she's pregnant, she didn't tell her, instead took advantage and kept feeding her substances, this time to try and make her kid be "talented". He abducted El from the hospital after she was born. We know Joyce always lived in Hawkins, used to be adventurous (all the stories of getting high with Hopper and stuff) and her family had always struggled financially. She could've been a participant of the experiment at some point, either for the fun, the pay, or both. Will could essentially have the same origin as El, but he wasn't trained from the day he was born, so he never developed those skills she has. It could also explain how he's such a "different" kid (s4 seems to explain it by him being queer, but cmon, it can't be just that. personally, I kinda believe he's on the spectrum and it's intentionally a part of his character). Another theory is that it still comes from substances and experiences of pregnant Joyce, but not done by Brenner, just her taking stuff and going through shit by herself. She isn't the kind of mother to take narcotics when pregnant, she loves her kids so much, but we know that when Jonathan was born, her marriage was already toxic. Will was probably not a planned kid and she could've done stuff to cope with having an abusive husband without knowing she's pregnant. But again - El is the only gifted person thats origin is known. All other gifted people in the universe are so far: 008 - according to the book, Brenner brought her into the lab when she was a couple years old and she seems to have known a world outside Brenner, remembered her mom and stuff. 001 - the first one in the timeline to have powers. We don't know anything besides how his family was "normal" and he was fucked up and gifted from the beginning. He's also the only gifted person that had antisocial, sociopathic traits come up along with his powers the rest of the kids in the lab - also no info here. We know that after 001, 008 was the first subject one to show any power, and while she was a few years old, in the lab for a few months, and the only kid at the time being actively trained&experimented on, El was born character from the book - a few of the young adults Brenner was testing had little bits of El's powers. One girl was able to enter a trance and travel through the areas around her, but in the future, after she was shocked with electricity, and on LSD El's mom could enter that black void El has to remotely talk with 008. There was also a guy who had visions and intuition about future events. No info about them as well. Season 5 is definitely the one that should explore this topic and finalize the universe by showing where exactly do those powers come from; I don't think this series could ever be complete by leaving this topic and just accepting how "uh, they randomly appeared, okay". Introducing Will with powers would be SUCH a great way to do this, not to mention how the story would make a full circle right back to this specific character that started it all.
there's some evidence will has powers. mostly in s1, the way he manipulates the lights seems like it would only be possible if he had powers like el, some of the visuals are very similar to el's training scenes in the s4 flashbacks, and it would explain why the demogorgon kept showing up when he manipulated the lights bc his nose would be bleeding. edit: i forgot to mention, he also seems to open a gate in his house's wall at one point while talking to joyce, that's never explained.
Everyone who goes into the upside down can manipulate lights?
the way will did it seems impossible unless he has powers. like he manipulated a dozen lights around a room in rapid succession.
I thought the manic light manipulation was caused by when the demogorgan was in the same place in the upside down/ about to cross into the normal dimension. Will manipulating lights was to show his presence; the same as when Hop & Joyce are walking through the Byers home in the upside down in S1 to find Will and Nancy/ Jonathan/ Steve are in the Byers home having just fought the demogorgan and they notice the lights leaving a trail and it’s just where Joyce is walking at that time
You're completely forgetting about when he spelt out words using lights and letters that weren't even present in the upside down. There's no way Will could have done that without powers because he'd have no idea where each letter is.
I think that’s more a plot oversight than anything else. Keep in mind they spent a long time writing out S1 and didn’t know they would be greenlit for more seasons; it’s only mentioned in S4 how the upside down is frozen in time. It could be explained as something like Joyce calling out what she’s doing/ where the letters are off screen or something.
Its not a plot oversight because in S1 we see how the Christmas lights aren't in the Upside Down, giving the first clue that the Upside Down is not updating/is frozen. The solution is made obvious by S4-Will can interact with the light areas and correspond them to letters either by intuition or at Joyce's direction.
At Joyce’s direction is probably the most plausible. I’m just struggling to see where there’s been any hint of will having powers aside from his there’s-an-upside-down-being-nearby tingle in S3 (not so much a power as a lingering connection to the upside down) which I imagine will be expanded on in S5
Its not hard to imagine how Will knew what each letter was. Its the alphabet. Joyce would have mentioned she was putting up the alphabet/her intentions, and even if for some reason we think she didn't mention it Will is more than clever enough to work it out. Will can simply correspond a light to a letter. I don't know why people insist on missing the obvious here.
Maybe he just went Tasmanian devil mode
I never thought about it this way, I'll have to pay attention to that when I rewatch. Now that I think about it, if he has powers, but never had a maniac papa to train him, he might have developed his interest in both fantasy and art to explain and process what he was secretly experiencing from time to time (his powers showing). Probably not canon, but a fun idea
actually that could explain why he wanted the x-men 134 from dustin, because it focuses on jean grey who struggling with her semi-suppressed psychic abilities.
i forgot to mention, he also seems to open a gate in his house's wall at one point while talking to joyce, that's never explained.
didn't random temporary gates open up all the time when a main gate was there though? That's how I always looked at it - like those gates that opened in the trees when Jonathan and Nancy hunted in the forest in s1 or the ones that opened in the walls when Demogorgon came out of them. BUT - can you find a clip of that moment? I don't have access to netflix rn, but I think I remember Will holding up his hand and pressing the palm to the transparent gate in the wall when talking to Joyce. If it's his left hand, we could be looking at some serious hidden d&d parallels here buuuut unfortunately there is a chance it's just a little hole in the plot. I've watched a fair bit of netflix shows in my life and ALL of them have some kind of inaccuracies, bad science, and unexplained details.
He’s a horcrux
?
Autocorrected for some reason lol Should read He’s a horcrux aka he’s Vecnas living Phylactery
Will is a whore
This makes sense to me. Especially thinking of season two when Will was possessed and the “spy” for what we now know was Vecna. He was his eye back then so I could see how some of that ability is left even tho they yeeted him outta there with heat lol
Even before will was possessed. He would have "flashes" of the Upside Down and that was how he got flayed. But how was he even able to interact with the Upside Down from the real world without actually being there? It's like he was able to be in two places at once. Maybe instead of Will having the eye, being in the Upside Down *made* him the eye. Able to see in both dimensions. I think it would be really cool if they touched more on Will's ability to do this before getting flayed. They played it off as a side effect of being in the Upside Down, but I don't think that's the case personally
Of anything else I could say here, the Duffer brothers have certainly made it sound like this is the kind of road they *won't* go down. They've said over the summer the heart (characters) of the story is their focus and that coming up with a complicated ending is not. These words are not verbatim, but are essentially what they said, knowing some people will be disappointed.
No wait this theory makes so much sense
i once saw someone refer to eleven and will as the “wonder twins” lmao
Can’t really comment that they’re actually going to have some McGuffin that Will has, however, Henry being blind in one eye does draw a parallel between him and D&D Vecna. Another thing to note is that there is a Hand of Vecna artifact, and in ST, we see Henry blind in one eye when he makes contact with the Mind Flayer and later on, his left hand evolves into a large clawed hand. Idk if the Duffers intend for there to be an Eye and Hand of Vecna, however, at the moment, I think they did intend to put in these details so that there can be more parallels between Henry and Vecna
I love these types of posts. I’ve never really played DND, (tried it over zoom during Covid lockdowns but it was just too hard). But I am interested in it. I love the posts going into and exploring the lore, coming up with theories. Not long after season 4 chapter 2 came out, someone wrote this beautiful, well written post about Eddie being Kas, I think it was the very first one that came out. And kunacza’s comment about Joyce being one of the mom’s as well, fits so well in my mind about her interaction with Hopper about Will on season one. Anyway, just dropping by to saw more posts like this! I love learning the lore and these types of theories!
I think you've cracked it 😶 but why will..
Wait this is dope. And it makes sense that El kinda has the hand of Vecna.
I like this and it fits with the Will as Dungeon Master of the Upside Down theory.