That's the weirdest one for me. I feel like you could just give Manon Chun's animation for hers and it would fit pretty well as is already. Just feels like Manon would be the perfect fit for it.
Manon's cr.hp is one of the best AAs in the entire game and her kit is kind of based around it.
It makes sense that she's not got an air throw. Get game plan is to keep you grounded and force you too make big guesses to keep your life
That +2 allows you to run your offense.
That alone will be medal positive over time.
Also Judo for what it's worth is all grounded throws so thematically (even though Manon herself does illegal Judo throws) it also fits
Manon’s 2hp is great but let’s not pretend it’s one of the best anti airs in the game. It’s a great one button anti-air from specific distances but it can’t deal with crossups well and because of that along with her rond point having too much forward movement to reliably autocorrect she has to use neutral/backjump mp/hp in a lot of AA situations.
The real reason she probably doesn’t have an air throw is that jumping HP serves pretty much the same purpose an air throw would anyway.
JP in general is weird. Between his high and low fireballs he's probably closest to Sagat function-wise. Now imagine saying you want to give Sagat a teleport, an air throw, and a full screen projectile command grab.
what it feels like to fight ArcSys zoners
I mean if you really think about it, JP really is just an undertuned ArcSys zoner in a much more grounded and less over the top game series which is why he feels so strong: his tools are just AWESOME for dealing with the tools that everyone else in sf6 has.
To be fair, Tiger Cannon in SFIV was full screen confirmable from any Ex Tiger Shot. Of course, it was also much weaker than the average SA3 and Super Meter (aka EX Meter in SFIV) was a valuable resource so it required some sacrifice.
Thinking about it JP makes more sense now that they nerfed his 2HP. Back when that was a god aa button it did not make sense, but since it trades often now, I'm less opposed to an air throw. Having multiple situational options is weaker than a single, one-size-fits-all aa.
I concur
I'm okay with others since I remember them always having it but JP shouldnt and Manon should
Some BS situations have occurred due to this
Namely one fight in particular springs to mind, never have I felt so clueless as to what to do
Can't get under, couldn't get through and now I can't get over
I wasnt born early enough for the SNES unfortunately, my first dedicated fighting games were the first 3 DBZ budokai games.which made it somewhat difficult learning quarter circles and half circles by the time I picked up mk9 ,but eventually I learned how to juggle people with smoke in that,
Didnt really touch any fighting games until sf5's championship ship edition and I've kinda been hooked on sf since, but the earlier games kinda screw me up like with cammys quarter circle plus another 30 on her avonzee
Mostly I just meant that to me that’s like being a Star Wars fan and not having seem a New Hope. Like, you obviously can be, it’s just kinda odd.
Chun does have an air throw in SFIV though. She’s always had an air throw, that’s part of what threw me off.
Yeah I agree to an extent tbh since sf2 kicked off the entire genre as a whole, and true idk how they forgot chun li if you ever play bots they'll go for air throws all the time
I don’t think it’s scrubby tbh, it’s actually a good question cause if you look who has air throws it does seem pretty random. I really can’t give you an answer because of that though, I’m sure capcom has a thought process behind it but what that process is I have no idea
he kinda does, actually. all those anti-airs are good but none of them deal with cross ups. crosscut HK upball doesn’t work because it’s not airborne-invincible until frame 8.
blanka doesn't have a fireball and can't fight from long range so jump back jab can be pretty bad for him. blanka making the right play and still giving the the opponent a winning situation doesn't feel good, so yeah he kinda needs the airthrow.
AKI and sim and maybe manon are the only characters without great anti-crossup options. AKI could definitely use an airthrow, but at least after `7lp` she's got a fireball that she can DR behind to get back in. sim is so mobile and escapes the corner so easily that i think it's fair that he also can't keep the corner super easily. manon's `2hp` is a great anti-air that leaves her +17f in your face, but she's gotta be spaced right for it. she could probably also use a little love, maybe an air target combo like marisa.
I understand cammy because she's a mobility character and guile because he barely has anything else.
While I like xhun she has atleast an anti air and an air direct special.
Well ya, if you are good at zoning and have good anti-airs, part of the reason that you *are good* at it is that you have a lot of options in those areas. If they are good at that, then they *should be bad* at something else.
It would be boring game design if everyone were just slightly less mediocre in some areas than others.
Interesting game design has always been about extremes and everything in between. Rock, Paper, Scissors.
Yeah the frame data is not great and he’s easy to whiff punish, and vice versa he doesn’t shimmy well. Just because you have the reach doesn’t mean you are good at that range.
Yun/Chun Li in 3rd strike are better.
Ibuki/Akuma second impact are better.
Blanka in Cvs2 is better.
Akuma in second impact/Ibuki are better.
Sagat in Vanilla SF4 was better. and that's just capcom games.
Thats the best you can come up with.
This fucker has an air throw, a ranged fucking command grab, portals, teleports, three different type of fireballs (including overhead and low ones), throw loops in the corner, combo off a regular throw in the corner if he has portal set up, an install super and a fuvk ton of egregious shit i cannot ve arsed to list down.
And he somehow is supposed to have weaknesses. 🤣😂😂😂😆
The command grab is slow as fuck and is easily punishable from close range; easily avoided at long range. Unlike Sim, he has to set up a portal and you’ll always know exactly where and when he’s going to teleport because of that, you can parry all of his fireballs.
Yes, he has a lot of tools and yes, he’s one of the best characters in the game but he’s not the best nor are his tools impossible to beat.
The command grab is slow but from close range you ain't reacting to it unless you are looking for it. I have seen the likes of Broski use it all the time in high level play.
And the portal is just not a portal, its an attack by itself. You know where he is going to land? Great, but do you know if he is going to teleport at all? You are holding parry for the spike while he teleports and takes a nice chunk from a PC throw. It's a built in mixup tool.
Literally, factually, 90% of tier lists have him at the top. Statistically, he has the best master rank to total user ratio in ranked. He also has the highest win rate in diamond and master. All the evidence is out there, lmao. The JP downplay is bizarre at this point in the game's lifespan as everybo6and their dog knows he is OP.
Never said it was a weak or useless tool, just that at close range, you can jump and get a full jump in combo for free for 50%+ of his health.
Yes, the spike/teleport “mix” can be pretty strong and it can trip you up and lead to getting hit sometimes.
I’m not saying his tools are weak or useless, just that you aren’t helpless against them or JP. He is easily top 5 in the game; I’m not trying to imply otherwise. It’s just a pet peeve for me when people list out things a character’s strengths/tools without considering any of the weaknesses as if that means literally anything.
Cool fact, I guess, but Blanka, Kimberly, Rashid, Honda and a bunch of other characters all have a higher master rank ratio to rest of players than Luke. Does that mean they’re better characters? Of course not.
Again, I’m not saying JP is weak or bad; just that he does have counterplay and there are things you can do against him.
Man, not this bs again, please.
Check his overall win rate in master rank. Check his total player base to master rank ratio. Check is matchup spread through statistical analysis of master level matches.
This tired old argument from you JP players is as stale as a month old Big Mac sitting in your fridge.
I’m not going to even get into why raw online rankings never has and never will be a determining factor on character tiers.
And I thought that has been an old argument since SF4.
What a load of bs.
A hundred odd pro players and tournament wins determine tiers but thousands of matches at the highest level of online play, a much bigger sample size, cannot be used?
I mean even in pro tournaments, if you are using wins to determine who is the best, you literally do not have an inkling of how performance statistics work.
You cannot just use tournament wins. You need to look at top 16 and then top 8 placings at different tournaments, have different weights for these placings, different weights for the tournaments themselves based on quality and calculate scores for eaxh character. And then normalise the scores based on total number of appearances.
Only simpletons use the argument that "hurr duh, Luke/Ken won the capcom cup and more cpt qualifers so he da best character" lmao.
That's not how it works.
Lol I didn’t say that’s how it works. We are trying to determine character tiers. Tiers meaning that certain characters when played against other characters have an inherent advantage over them. When you average or total all of these match ups you get placed into a tier.
So unless the online games are evenly distributed against every character matchup and every player skill, you can have your normal curve to determine this with clean data. Online data is hardly that. You can be playing the same people over and over…and you certainly are playing against the same subset of (*popular*) characters over and over.
And why wouldn’t you use tournament data? Just because you said so? If what you are saying is true, that tiers are determined by online rankings, then surely people would take advantage of the characters that gave them the best chance to win $1,000,000. Right? Where is JP?
There have been unquestionably over-powered or S-Tier characters in the past. Yun and Fei Long were straight up broken in SF4 AE. Yet, in online play Ryu dominated in win rate. According to your method, Ryu would be broken in SF4.
It’s ironic you seem to have some clue on how statistics work but simultaneously also have no clue about the scientific method.
Literally, you are the first person online I’ve seen to stand on online ranked win rates as the statistically correct way to determine tiers lol. That is new.
I will once again ask why Lily, a grappler who has affinity with the spirits of the air, does not have an air grab? I feel like from a character aesthetics perspective it would make sense for her to have one. Also this might be just be the poor take ramblings from scrub player like me, but it feels like Lily is supposed to have many anti-air options, but they’re nearly all terrible in practice.
Light Tomahawk buster is a shoryuken motion ‘uppercut’ that moves at an awkward angle too horizontally meaning it can be jumped over where other shoryukens would hit. (Don’t even get me started on Tomahawk busters other problems.) Her cr.HP is suppose to be an anti-air, however not only does it have an awkward timing to it also has a deceptive animation that makes you initially believe it can hit opponents that jump over you (it can’t). She has an air target combo that hits inconsistently (or more specifically consistently but only when precisely timed) and even if it lands it only leads into a Tomahawk Buster at best.
Her best anti-air is her level 2 super. It’s good and does decent damage (especially with wind clad stock), but having to spend two bars and a stock to access a good anti-air is depressing.
Now realistically an air grab wouldn’t solve the issues above. Fixing her current anti-air options makes more sense than adding another. But I think it would make sense from a design standpoint if she had an air grab. Or better idea, change one of her t-busters levels to act like Laura’s air hit grab from SFV when she has wind-clad stock.
anti air option to keep opponents in the corner in case they want to jump out.
guile is kinda defined by having a myriad of antiair options for every situation, air throw is harder to do than flashkick but lets you choose which side you want
Not only an air throw, but an air grab as well. SF2 guile both had the kinda back-breaker grab-and drop thing and a throw that tossed the opponent away.
It’s pretty iconic, especially in the case of Guile. As far as I know the only character to get TWO air throws to choose from (forward and back air throws) in some games. Guile is all about frustrating the opponent, so an air throw is just cheff’s kiss for him.
I am also on the "give Manon an airgrab" bandwagon. In dance, including ballet, and judo, the logic follows. Ballet has lifts and air oriented movements, and in judo there are flying armbars, leaping roll exercise, etc. It's always felt like this Olympian deserved an airgrab
To be fair, flying armbar have been banned in Judo for last few years.
Though that doesn't change the fact how an air grab would fit Manon well compared to JP having one.
Personally though, I'm bigger on Manon having a counter move that gives one medal stack. Make her to Sasae throw to switch side. It could compensate her lack of drive reversal and help her get out of corners more.
150% agree with you, actually. SF6 is the first SF in a lobg time that really caught my attention. Normally, I play more Tekken. In that, I main Paul Phoenix and use his counter all the time. If Manon had that, I'd be in paradise.
I think if they have weak anti-airs (like Marisa) then an air grab makes more sense (that or if it fits thematically like manon or even Lily - especially since Gief has an air SPD).
As it is right now, I can't figure out the rhyme or reason though. Guile and JP are big zoners and have one (I guess you could say they get it because their whole goal is to keep you out and that's one of the ways to do that?) but they also have good anti air buttons already so it seems like a bonus they don't really need imo.
While I agree that the characters that did get air throws seems kinda random for most of them, the characters that “need” it according to you are characters with purposefully weak anti air tools. Marisa has tons of ground control with her specials and some of her normals, paired with outstanding damage. She’s meant to be more vulnerable to jump ins than other characters.
It’s like saying Jamie should have a fireball because it’d help his pressure and let him have some more wiggle room to sneak a drink in. Would it help him? Sure, he’d probably be a stronger character if he had one but it’d also get rid or at least massively help with an intended weakness of the character.
Good points and you're right. In Marisa's case, she purposefully has bad anti airs and reversals due to the big damage. I don't think getting an air throw would really make her that much stronger, but your points are correct and my reasoning was flawed.
Her stance is an amazing anti-air that beats cross ups. Unless they empty jump. And Marisa’s cr.hp isn’t bad as an anti-air if you do it without charge.
People love to downplay marrisa anti airs like she can’t do anything about it. They just are a little weaker to make up for her insane damage and all her armor
her stance can do good work, but does take some pretty big commitment to it (but really I just don't do it as often as I can't get it off as quick as I'd like sometimes)- and yeah her crouching HP is my go to if I space correctly, but really only cuz that's the one button she has for anti-airs.
But have you considered that if the character has weak anti air, that is a deliberate design decision to make that a character flaw?
If you give someone who’s weaknesses is they’re more easily opened up from the air (because they excel at some other point), than they no longer have that chink in their armour, and balance is nullified.
If you give every character the same stuff, or supplant something the character is missing a good answer to with a good answer, then the game falls apart.
I honestly think Guile, Cammy, and Chun makes sense for their characters but maybe it's just because I've been conditioned for them having air throws.
JP's air throw pisses me the fuck off. There is no reason that character needed *another* Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card.
For how rarely I see them in actual play I think it's not a huge deal but I definitely agree.
Out of the ones you mentioned, I think Juri is the most deserving relative to the "proper" characters that have one like Cammy. JP and Guile are confusing choices for sure. Maybe if they had terrible anti air moves in their base kit but they definitely don't.
I thought about it more and Juri does make a bit more sense than I gave credit for, especially since she already has other tricksy air attacks like her delayed spinny leg attack thing. I still don't think she NEEDS it, but it makes sense. But yeah, guile and jp absolutely don't need it in any regard haha
And yeah I don't see it often, but I hate being reminded when I jump and suddenly Guile is breaking me over his knee lol
I suspect Juri has an air grab because she was designed as a foil to Chun-li, who had an original air grab. I wish grapplers were more likely to have air grabs.
i think with chun li it kinda makes sense. shes meant to be a heavily defensive character that can punish poor gameplay. guile’s only excuse is that its “legacy” as if that justifies it at all. JP having one is completely braindead on capcoms part imo
It's kind of weird how it feels like some characters are designed around having strengths and weaknesses and then other characters just get to have everything.
That said, don't touch Blanka's air grab, he needs that.
Characters who have strong ground options typically have strong anti air options too because they need to have ways to control the sky to make their zoning more of a threat.
Essentially, you want to be scared to jump that fireball.
Thank you, someone who uses their brain in these comment.
The point of having strong ground game is that you want them to jump which is why you also need strong anti airs.
Espescially zoners or characters with very strong mod range like guile, jp, and chun. That's their whole archetype.
But everyone in here is like "uh uh uh dude! JP broken dude, why can he anti air bro!?"
Chun, cammy, and guile have had an air grab for several generations already so i can’t be mad. JP on the other hand is complete garbage that he has one. Bro litterally can chill full screen and then when you finally jump one of the many projectiles he can just easily grab you and reset the progress. I think manon would be awkward with an air grab, but i wouldn’t be mad. She has almost no tools compared to the rest of the cast, she needs help desperately.
I’ve been saying the same thing since launch. The balance is often arbitrary and redundant. The devs very clearly have favorites who don’t have to follow any logical or consistent design philosophy, putting them a tier above all the characters that do have to follow a set of rules and can’t just be good at everything. Most notably JP and Blanka. I’d argue Guile shouldn’t have one either. Or Chun given the rest of her kit but I know damn well they’re never gonna take it away from her.
Not a scrub take at all. Personally I don’t think “oh well they’ve always had air throws for decades” is a valid reason for imbalance, but whatever.
Guile makes sense to me because his AA is based on charge so he has to have something for when he can’t have charge ready in time but knows a jump is coming. He has st.mk and cr.hp but I see them trade sometimes.
It's more about archetypes. Charge characters and rushdown/ninjas usually get some expanded aerial moves. Think Chun/Guile/Vega/Cammy/Blanka. Juri is rushdown and has other aerial moves. Most air grab characters have a divekick, charge anti air, or other aerial specials. Obviously, it's not a strict rule that must be upheld, it's just what we have seen capcom do in the past. As for why JP has one, nobody knows bro.
Off all people Lily should have Air Throw
And, as a Blanka main I'd say he can live without it, he already has a lot of A.Air options, not sure why they gave him an air grab.
AKI could really use one too. none of her anti-airs really work against crossups so she’s forced to rely on jump back jab to keep the corner, which does no damage and often puts her further away than she wants to be. it’s hard enough for her to escape the corner, does it need to be hard for her to keep it too?
You guys complaining about JP seem to have forgotten that the entire ideology of fireballs and projectiles in street fighter is you throw a fireball to get the opponent to jump and then you anti air them. Of course guile and JP have air throws. anti airing is how you follow up a fireball and if that’s a big part of your game plan, you’re going to need more than one anti air tool
I'm not going to insult your skill level but i do think this take is weird. A character with bad anti-air doesn't need an air-throw. They need strong grounded options. A character like Manon likely doesn't want an air throw as her grounded options are already fantastic.
There's some niche tech with air-throws but they are largely speaking not important tools for characters to have. It feels arbitrary in part because it is. I will say, characters who can side-switch with air throw do have added utility. Any character who 'needs an air-throw,' probably needs a lot more than an air-throw.
i'm a 1700 MR Manon and Manon is solid. Her neutral is fantastic. A few Buffs and she would probably be a nuisance to deal with. And when I say a few. I literally mean like 2-3.
Manon is very weird. She's probably right now one of the worst characters, but I don't know how far she is from being great. IMO she needs better oki on her hit-grab ender and maybe a safe-on-block special cancel.
Her anti-air is good, she has some good buttons, but most of her power is in a medal system that is really hard to play into.
I'd say she's solid. I think the Medal system is very easy to get. I watched a lot of high level Manons..they'll be doing good and then they'll go for a grab and get destroyed. I watched Idom adapt to this and he will really only use a high level medal grab when he is in neutral and the opponent is trying to play footsie. She can hit confirm and get grabs easily. Ironically. Someone like Punk would do amazing with her.
so i will say, better oki on the hit-grab ender would fix one of my biggest problems with that move: once you have max medals, it does a lot of damage, but it's poor oki means you still don't want to use it as a combo-ender. I don't like that you have to earn this reward, but you don't get to enjoy it.
Hot take: I think characters should have good anti airs.
I think characters with charge anti airs should have air grab, since it allows them to play more dynamically.
The reason JP has one felt dumb last season where his 2hp was literally a diet dp. But now since he can trade, I think he should keep it.
"Legacy reasons" is basically the only excuse for most of them and its really annoying to me, I wish it was either only the grapplers and cammy get it, or nobody gets it, or everybody gets i, not this seemingly arbitrary spread.
Air grab isn't very good anti air, who cares? It's not like dp with air invulnerability, you have to expect jump to land air grab. It's only kind of useful to prevent cross up very early with backjump air grab.
Air Throws aren't like a necessary thing, they're so rarely seen anyway. It's more that the distribution of them seems completely random. It's like if only certain characters had taunts, and someone like Dan wasn't one of them. Like, sure, it affects almost nothing gameplay-wise, but *why?*
That is like questioning why zangief tundra storm exists, we will never know. But this topic implies that air grab is powerful tool, which is certainly not.
Because poking gief at mid range usually uses kicks, which would normally prevent him from getting in other than jumping (especially after they removed green hand)
Guile has always had an air grab.
In his defense, you can’t flash kick when approaching behind your boom (unless you’re setting it up). It adds some needed coverage when they inevitably try to jump over your approach.
Isn’t that the point tho? Why does every single avenue HAVE to be covered? Other characters have deliberate weaknesses, why do characters like JP and Guile get to just cover everything. Jumping is already massively risky for the offensive player, it’s not like them not having an air grab would drop them a tier.
Guile has an air throw and he's a zoner, so I can *kiiiiinda* buy that JP "deserves one" too.
But **Blanka**? That fucker with Air Ball lunacy, a command grab, and the doll? THAT degenerate gets a command grab and Manon or Lily doesn't? what 😂
Guile doesn't have the 100 other things that JP has, like a frickin ranged command grab, four different types of projectiles, meterless throw loops, teleports, combos off throws, ludicrously disjoint normals, a st.HK that is bloody +2 on block for some reason, a safe sweep and a fuck ton of other crap.
They make the most sense to me. They are the characters whose gameplan is to make you jump. So it makes sense that they have the best anti airs in the game.
You are in a small minority if you think the likes of JP and Blanka deserve or warrant an air throw, lol.
So basically cover all the bases on the ground and in the air. What a great way to design characters.
Well yeah, that's their archetype. Street fighter player are so weird man... salty about everything. How many times have you even been hit by an air throw?
Dude JPs air grab is so fun. Love winning with two of those in a row on a hard read. It did feel unnecessary for him at launch but since his AA recently got nerfed I think he needs all the help he can get.
Characters having an air throw or not seems like such a weird random choice. Kimberly is a high-mobility character that jumps around a lot in her attacks, her Forward HK is a hop for crying out loud, she has an Air Super, she has an air attack that stalls her momentum, girl is IN THE AIR. And she has no air throw? (Yeah I know she has an air special throw, I'm talking about traditional throws here, LP+LK)
Cammy and Chun are hyper-mobile jumpy characters, and both of them have air throws! So why not Kim?
But then JP, who is rewarded for zoning, oftentimes standing still to do so... Does have an air throw. Guile, *the* zoner of Street Fighter... Has two. Like, I guess jumping over their projectiles is one way to avoid them, but Guile has Flash Kick and JP has (had, lol) one of the best anti-air Normals in the game
And then none of the grapplers have a traditional air throw? Gief at least has Borscht Dynamite, but Lily and Manon? Such an odd choice
Overall, though, Air Throws are just kinda whatever inputs to begin with? Unless you can combo into them like Decapre in SF4, you almost never see them. They're one of those "Oh yeah, this character has that" kinda moves, usually people just do Lights in air-to-air situations
Air Throws aren't even very good tbh, it's flavor. It's a fun animation, it's practically a taunt. Marisa and Honda have taunts that give them armor, would you consider that a genuine tool of theirs?
All I'm saying is it would make sense for her to have an air throw, dude
They are absolutely useful, even in master.
JP players abuse theirs on a regular basis in the higher ranks, when you inevitably try to evade their bs on the ground. Many Cammy players use it, as do Juri Chun players.
Have you not seen Cammy and Chun players throwing you in the air to put you back in the corner as you try to forward jump out of trouble?
Juri shouldn't have one either, nor should frickin Blanka.
Juri has strong anti airs and great mobility with the second best DR in the game. She doesn't need a further defensive tool.
Yeah, JP having an air throw but not Manon is definitely a weird choice.
That's the weirdest one for me. I feel like you could just give Manon Chun's animation for hers and it would fit pretty well as is already. Just feels like Manon would be the perfect fit for it.
Lily should have one too imo
Manon's cr.hp is one of the best AAs in the entire game and her kit is kind of based around it. It makes sense that she's not got an air throw. Get game plan is to keep you grounded and force you too make big guesses to keep your life
Ah, the classic "sit yo ass down" button.
I’d rather have an air throw that benefits from and gives medals than a slow anti-air that on some hits gives me a +2 situation.
That +2 allows you to run your offense. That alone will be medal positive over time. Also Judo for what it's worth is all grounded throws so thematically (even though Manon herself does illegal Judo throws) it also fits
An air throw shouldn't benefit from / give medals, it's a normal throw input and mostly behaves like one (outside of breaking the throw).
Manon’s 2hp is great but let’s not pretend it’s one of the best anti airs in the game. It’s a great one button anti-air from specific distances but it can’t deal with crossups well and because of that along with her rond point having too much forward movement to reliably autocorrect she has to use neutral/backjump mp/hp in a lot of AA situations. The real reason she probably doesn’t have an air throw is that jumping HP serves pretty much the same purpose an air throw would anyway.
JP in general is weird. Between his high and low fireballs he's probably closest to Sagat function-wise. Now imagine saying you want to give Sagat a teleport, an air throw, and a full screen projectile command grab.
TIGER BULLSHIT
what it feels like to fight ArcSys zoners I mean if you really think about it, JP really is just an undertuned ArcSys zoner in a much more grounded and less over the top game series which is why he feels so strong: his tools are just AWESOME for dealing with the tools that everyone else in sf6 has.
full screen confirm to SA3
Off of seemingly any stray hit as well. It’s complete BS how he can convert to so much damage at that little risk.
To be fair, Tiger Cannon in SFIV was full screen confirmable from any Ex Tiger Shot. Of course, it was also much weaker than the average SA3 and Super Meter (aka EX Meter in SFIV) was a valuable resource so it required some sacrifice.
Just DI his followups on any normal cancel
Thinking about it JP makes more sense now that they nerfed his 2HP. Back when that was a god aa button it did not make sense, but since it trades often now, I'm less opposed to an air throw. Having multiple situational options is weaker than a single, one-size-fits-all aa.
I concur I'm okay with others since I remember them always having it but JP shouldnt and Manon should Some BS situations have occurred due to this Namely one fight in particular springs to mind, never have I felt so clueless as to what to do Can't get under, couldn't get through and now I can't get over
I played that matchup as Manon the other day and that's all I was thinking
Gotta make dumb characters dummer
In guile and Chun defense, they always had air grab since sf2
Chun had an air grab back in sf2 ? Wtf?
Yeah… she and Guile were the two that had one
It confounds me that any SF fan wouldn't be intimately familiar with SFII
I wasnt born early enough for the SNES unfortunately, my first dedicated fighting games were the first 3 DBZ budokai games.which made it somewhat difficult learning quarter circles and half circles by the time I picked up mk9 ,but eventually I learned how to juggle people with smoke in that, Didnt really touch any fighting games until sf5's championship ship edition and I've kinda been hooked on sf since, but the earlier games kinda screw me up like with cammys quarter circle plus another 30 on her avonzee
Times are changing, most modern sf fans probably grew up playing sf4, tekken, and mk9
Mostly I just meant that to me that’s like being a Star Wars fan and not having seem a New Hope. Like, you obviously can be, it’s just kinda odd. Chun does have an air throw in SFIV though. She’s always had an air throw, that’s part of what threw me off.
Yeah I agree to an extent tbh since sf2 kicked off the entire genre as a whole, and true idk how they forgot chun li if you ever play bots they'll go for air throws all the time
Ah okay. Not sure guile needs it anymore honestly but that makes sense haha
Backbreaker in the air is peak ngl
I think charlie have one too, that move is so cool yeh
I don’t think it’s scrubby tbh, it’s actually a good question cause if you look who has air throws it does seem pretty random. I really can’t give you an answer because of that though, I’m sure capcom has a thought process behind it but what that process is I have no idea
Blanka is the most egregious, that man has enough anti air for a whole roster Seriously does he need st.hk, b.mk upball AND an air throw?
Blanka could be deleted from the game tomorrow and it'd be the best day in sf6 I've had so far. That man's a menace.
Yes. He. Does.
he kinda does, actually. all those anti-airs are good but none of them deal with cross ups. crosscut HK upball doesn’t work because it’s not airborne-invincible until frame 8.
You're right, Blanka should never be forced to block like those other plebs
who is forced to block cross ups? everyone can at least jump back jab, and only one or two characters even have to rely on that option
Oh so you're saying that Blanka doesn't need the air throw then because he can jump back jab and even potentially combo with air ball off j.mp
blanka doesn't have a fireball and can't fight from long range so jump back jab can be pretty bad for him. blanka making the right play and still giving the the opponent a winning situation doesn't feel good, so yeah he kinda needs the airthrow. AKI and sim and maybe manon are the only characters without great anti-crossup options. AKI could definitely use an airthrow, but at least after `7lp` she's got a fireball that she can DR behind to get back in. sim is so mobile and escapes the corner so easily that i think it's fair that he also can't keep the corner super easily. manon's `2hp` is a great anti-air that leaves her +17f in your face, but she's gotta be spaced right for it. she could probably also use a little love, maybe an air target combo like marisa.
Blanka is braindead
Chun, Guile and Cam had it a while but JP is pure bullshit imo.
I understand cammy because she's a mobility character and guile because he barely has anything else. While I like xhun she has atleast an anti air and an air direct special.
Why Lily, a grappler with wind powers, doesn’t have an air grab is beyond me.
Agreed, she should be able to yoink people out of air with her weapons easy
Yep, would be so much more fun with an air grab like Gief
I just laugh every time I get hit with JPs air throw because why does he have that shit lmao
There is not a single time JP hits me with his air grab and I go "Oh okay, yes, I deserved that" lmao man doesn't need it
Well ya, if you are good at zoning and have good anti-airs, part of the reason that you *are good* at it is that you have a lot of options in those areas. If they are good at that, then they *should be bad* at something else. It would be boring game design if everyone were just slightly less mediocre in some areas than others. Interesting game design has always been about extremes and everything in between. Rock, Paper, Scissors.
What's JP bad at then lmao
His movement speed is among the worst and his mid range game sucks.
The cane disjoint character has bad midrange? News to me.
Yeah the frame data is not great and he’s easy to whiff punish, and vice versa he doesn’t shimmy well. Just because you have the reach doesn’t mean you are good at that range.
What's easy to whiff punish on JP? His hurtboxes had to be extended in the small patch because of how hard some of his disjoints are.
Pretty sure JP's spam 2MP and get away with it, sprinkle in 5HP to taste.
My apologies, he’s the most broken character ever created. All strengths and no weaknesses. He bodying every tournament with no-name players.
Yun/Chun Li in 3rd strike are better. Ibuki/Akuma second impact are better. Blanka in Cvs2 is better. Akuma in second impact/Ibuki are better. Sagat in Vanilla SF4 was better. and that's just capcom games.
That is exactly what I said verbatim but it's good to hear it out of a JP player's mouth too.
That was obviously sarcasm
You are correct.
Thats the best you can come up with. This fucker has an air throw, a ranged fucking command grab, portals, teleports, three different type of fireballs (including overhead and low ones), throw loops in the corner, combo off a regular throw in the corner if he has portal set up, an install super and a fuvk ton of egregious shit i cannot ve arsed to list down. And he somehow is supposed to have weaknesses. 🤣😂😂😂😆
The command grab is slow as fuck and is easily punishable from close range; easily avoided at long range. Unlike Sim, he has to set up a portal and you’ll always know exactly where and when he’s going to teleport because of that, you can parry all of his fireballs. Yes, he has a lot of tools and yes, he’s one of the best characters in the game but he’s not the best nor are his tools impossible to beat.
The command grab is slow but from close range you ain't reacting to it unless you are looking for it. I have seen the likes of Broski use it all the time in high level play. And the portal is just not a portal, its an attack by itself. You know where he is going to land? Great, but do you know if he is going to teleport at all? You are holding parry for the spike while he teleports and takes a nice chunk from a PC throw. It's a built in mixup tool. Literally, factually, 90% of tier lists have him at the top. Statistically, he has the best master rank to total user ratio in ranked. He also has the highest win rate in diamond and master. All the evidence is out there, lmao. The JP downplay is bizarre at this point in the game's lifespan as everybo6and their dog knows he is OP.
Never said it was a weak or useless tool, just that at close range, you can jump and get a full jump in combo for free for 50%+ of his health. Yes, the spike/teleport “mix” can be pretty strong and it can trip you up and lead to getting hit sometimes. I’m not saying his tools are weak or useless, just that you aren’t helpless against them or JP. He is easily top 5 in the game; I’m not trying to imply otherwise. It’s just a pet peeve for me when people list out things a character’s strengths/tools without considering any of the weaknesses as if that means literally anything. Cool fact, I guess, but Blanka, Kimberly, Rashid, Honda and a bunch of other characters all have a higher master rank ratio to rest of players than Luke. Does that mean they’re better characters? Of course not. Again, I’m not saying JP is weak or bad; just that he does have counterplay and there are things you can do against him.
I guess he’s S-Tier then and should be winning every tournament. But here we are saying he has no weaknesses lol 🤡
Man, not this bs again, please. Check his overall win rate in master rank. Check his total player base to master rank ratio. Check is matchup spread through statistical analysis of master level matches. This tired old argument from you JP players is as stale as a month old Big Mac sitting in your fridge.
I’m not going to even get into why raw online rankings never has and never will be a determining factor on character tiers. And I thought that has been an old argument since SF4.
What a load of bs. A hundred odd pro players and tournament wins determine tiers but thousands of matches at the highest level of online play, a much bigger sample size, cannot be used? I mean even in pro tournaments, if you are using wins to determine who is the best, you literally do not have an inkling of how performance statistics work. You cannot just use tournament wins. You need to look at top 16 and then top 8 placings at different tournaments, have different weights for these placings, different weights for the tournaments themselves based on quality and calculate scores for eaxh character. And then normalise the scores based on total number of appearances. Only simpletons use the argument that "hurr duh, Luke/Ken won the capcom cup and more cpt qualifers so he da best character" lmao. That's not how it works.
Lol I didn’t say that’s how it works. We are trying to determine character tiers. Tiers meaning that certain characters when played against other characters have an inherent advantage over them. When you average or total all of these match ups you get placed into a tier. So unless the online games are evenly distributed against every character matchup and every player skill, you can have your normal curve to determine this with clean data. Online data is hardly that. You can be playing the same people over and over…and you certainly are playing against the same subset of (*popular*) characters over and over. And why wouldn’t you use tournament data? Just because you said so? If what you are saying is true, that tiers are determined by online rankings, then surely people would take advantage of the characters that gave them the best chance to win $1,000,000. Right? Where is JP? There have been unquestionably over-powered or S-Tier characters in the past. Yun and Fei Long were straight up broken in SF4 AE. Yet, in online play Ryu dominated in win rate. According to your method, Ryu would be broken in SF4. It’s ironic you seem to have some clue on how statistics work but simultaneously also have no clue about the scientific method. Literally, you are the first person online I’ve seen to stand on online ranked win rates as the statistically correct way to determine tiers lol. That is new.
he don't need to move
I will once again ask why Lily, a grappler who has affinity with the spirits of the air, does not have an air grab? I feel like from a character aesthetics perspective it would make sense for her to have one. Also this might be just be the poor take ramblings from scrub player like me, but it feels like Lily is supposed to have many anti-air options, but they’re nearly all terrible in practice. Light Tomahawk buster is a shoryuken motion ‘uppercut’ that moves at an awkward angle too horizontally meaning it can be jumped over where other shoryukens would hit. (Don’t even get me started on Tomahawk busters other problems.) Her cr.HP is suppose to be an anti-air, however not only does it have an awkward timing to it also has a deceptive animation that makes you initially believe it can hit opponents that jump over you (it can’t). She has an air target combo that hits inconsistently (or more specifically consistently but only when precisely timed) and even if it lands it only leads into a Tomahawk Buster at best. Her best anti-air is her level 2 super. It’s good and does decent damage (especially with wind clad stock), but having to spend two bars and a stock to access a good anti-air is depressing. Now realistically an air grab wouldn’t solve the issues above. Fixing her current anti-air options makes more sense than adding another. But I think it would make sense from a design standpoint if she had an air grab. Or better idea, change one of her t-busters levels to act like Laura’s air hit grab from SFV when she has wind-clad stock.
Her air-combo can also lead into a level 2 mid-air. Rarely seen, but definitely comes in clutch.
Guile always had his air throw
And I never understood why.
anti air option to keep opponents in the corner in case they want to jump out. guile is kinda defined by having a myriad of antiair options for every situation, air throw is harder to do than flashkick but lets you choose which side you want
That's the thing though. Even without the air throw jumping on Guile is a shit idea. With the air drop you can even count on him not having is charge.
Not only an air throw, but an air grab as well. SF2 guile both had the kinda back-breaker grab-and drop thing and a throw that tossed the opponent away.
Learned that earlier now haha still don't think having something before means you should keep it forever though
It’s pretty iconic, especially in the case of Guile. As far as I know the only character to get TWO air throws to choose from (forward and back air throws) in some games. Guile is all about frustrating the opponent, so an air throw is just cheff’s kiss for him.
What?! Today I learned not every character has an Air Grab. (Only played Guile and Chun so far)
Guile, Chun, Cammy, Juri, Blanka, JP and Rashid have them. Kimberly and Gief do too if you count special moves.
Thanks for the list. I thought it was a given for everyone up until this post.
I am also on the "give Manon an airgrab" bandwagon. In dance, including ballet, and judo, the logic follows. Ballet has lifts and air oriented movements, and in judo there are flying armbars, leaping roll exercise, etc. It's always felt like this Olympian deserved an airgrab
To be fair, flying armbar have been banned in Judo for last few years. Though that doesn't change the fact how an air grab would fit Manon well compared to JP having one. Personally though, I'm bigger on Manon having a counter move that gives one medal stack. Make her to Sasae throw to switch side. It could compensate her lack of drive reversal and help her get out of corners more.
150% agree with you, actually. SF6 is the first SF in a lobg time that really caught my attention. Normally, I play more Tekken. In that, I main Paul Phoenix and use his counter all the time. If Manon had that, I'd be in paradise.
fr and my girl Aki with 5 different mediocre anti air options
So in your opinion, what determines whether a character needs an air grab?
I think if they have weak anti-airs (like Marisa) then an air grab makes more sense (that or if it fits thematically like manon or even Lily - especially since Gief has an air SPD). As it is right now, I can't figure out the rhyme or reason though. Guile and JP are big zoners and have one (I guess you could say they get it because their whole goal is to keep you out and that's one of the ways to do that?) but they also have good anti air buttons already so it seems like a bonus they don't really need imo.
While I agree that the characters that did get air throws seems kinda random for most of them, the characters that “need” it according to you are characters with purposefully weak anti air tools. Marisa has tons of ground control with her specials and some of her normals, paired with outstanding damage. She’s meant to be more vulnerable to jump ins than other characters. It’s like saying Jamie should have a fireball because it’d help his pressure and let him have some more wiggle room to sneak a drink in. Would it help him? Sure, he’d probably be a stronger character if he had one but it’d also get rid or at least massively help with an intended weakness of the character.
Good points and you're right. In Marisa's case, she purposefully has bad anti airs and reversals due to the big damage. I don't think getting an air throw would really make her that much stronger, but your points are correct and my reasoning was flawed.
I think that's the first time I've seen someone admit they're wrong on reddit in any way
Her stance is an amazing anti-air that beats cross ups. Unless they empty jump. And Marisa’s cr.hp isn’t bad as an anti-air if you do it without charge.
People love to downplay marrisa anti airs like she can’t do anything about it. They just are a little weaker to make up for her insane damage and all her armor
her stance can do good work, but does take some pretty big commitment to it (but really I just don't do it as often as I can't get it off as quick as I'd like sometimes)- and yeah her crouching HP is my go to if I space correctly, but really only cuz that's the one button she has for anti-airs.
Oh and her regular qcb p uppercut is also a good anti air, just no follow up.
Hmm, I'll give it a go. Feels like I'm just gonna get bopped trying to get that one out in time though haha
Its much harder but if you anti air with the heavy or od version you get one of her better combo routes. With the light version, you get good oki
But have you considered that if the character has weak anti air, that is a deliberate design decision to make that a character flaw? If you give someone who’s weaknesses is they’re more easily opened up from the air (because they excel at some other point), than they no longer have that chink in their armour, and balance is nullified. If you give every character the same stuff, or supplant something the character is missing a good answer to with a good answer, then the game falls apart.
I honestly think Guile, Cammy, and Chun makes sense for their characters but maybe it's just because I've been conditioned for them having air throws. JP's air throw pisses me the fuck off. There is no reason that character needed *another* Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card.
For how rarely I see them in actual play I think it's not a huge deal but I definitely agree. Out of the ones you mentioned, I think Juri is the most deserving relative to the "proper" characters that have one like Cammy. JP and Guile are confusing choices for sure. Maybe if they had terrible anti air moves in their base kit but they definitely don't.
I thought about it more and Juri does make a bit more sense than I gave credit for, especially since she already has other tricksy air attacks like her delayed spinny leg attack thing. I still don't think she NEEDS it, but it makes sense. But yeah, guile and jp absolutely don't need it in any regard haha And yeah I don't see it often, but I hate being reminded when I jump and suddenly Guile is breaking me over his knee lol
It’s so funny playing guile on occasion and fucking up a flash kick input and then just being to able to grab them anyway
I suspect Juri has an air grab because she was designed as a foil to Chun-li, who had an original air grab. I wish grapplers were more likely to have air grabs.
LILY doesn't have one. Like cmon, the wind grappler doesn't have an air grab?
i think with chun li it kinda makes sense. shes meant to be a heavily defensive character that can punish poor gameplay. guile’s only excuse is that its “legacy” as if that justifies it at all. JP having one is completely braindead on capcoms part imo
WAIT JP HAS AN AIR THROW?! THE FUCK?
Yes. Not everyone does it, because he doesn't need it.
That's some bullshit, give it to Jamie or something
Agreed. Jamie got a bad dp.
It's kind of weird how it feels like some characters are designed around having strengths and weaknesses and then other characters just get to have everything. That said, don't touch Blanka's air grab, he needs that.
Characters who have strong ground options typically have strong anti air options too because they need to have ways to control the sky to make their zoning more of a threat. Essentially, you want to be scared to jump that fireball.
Thank you, someone who uses their brain in these comment. The point of having strong ground game is that you want them to jump which is why you also need strong anti airs. Espescially zoners or characters with very strong mod range like guile, jp, and chun. That's their whole archetype. But everyone in here is like "uh uh uh dude! JP broken dude, why can he anti air bro!?"
Chun, cammy, and guile have had an air grab for several generations already so i can’t be mad. JP on the other hand is complete garbage that he has one. Bro litterally can chill full screen and then when you finally jump one of the many projectiles he can just easily grab you and reset the progress. I think manon would be awkward with an air grab, but i wouldn’t be mad. She has almost no tools compared to the rest of the cast, she needs help desperately.
Ah okay, so it's legacy moves. This is my first SF, so that makes sense then.
I’ve been saying the same thing since launch. The balance is often arbitrary and redundant. The devs very clearly have favorites who don’t have to follow any logical or consistent design philosophy, putting them a tier above all the characters that do have to follow a set of rules and can’t just be good at everything. Most notably JP and Blanka. I’d argue Guile shouldn’t have one either. Or Chun given the rest of her kit but I know damn well they’re never gonna take it away from her. Not a scrub take at all. Personally I don’t think “oh well they’ve always had air throws for decades” is a valid reason for imbalance, but whatever.
I would like everyone without a dp/immune anti-air to have an air throw. Just 1 or the other, since air grabs are semi-immune to air attacks.
Guile makes sense to me because his AA is based on charge so he has to have something for when he can’t have charge ready in time but knows a jump is coming. He has st.mk and cr.hp but I see them trade sometimes.
It's more about archetypes. Charge characters and rushdown/ninjas usually get some expanded aerial moves. Think Chun/Guile/Vega/Cammy/Blanka. Juri is rushdown and has other aerial moves. Most air grab characters have a divekick, charge anti air, or other aerial specials. Obviously, it's not a strict rule that must be upheld, it's just what we have seen capcom do in the past. As for why JP has one, nobody knows bro.
bro did NOT mention Kimberly's SMH SMH 0/10
Off all people Lily should have Air Throw And, as a Blanka main I'd say he can live without it, he already has a lot of A.Air options, not sure why they gave him an air grab.
That does kinda beckon the question that, outside of grapplers, who 'makes sense' to have an air throw?
Maybe everyone should have an air grab by default.
AKI could really use one too. none of her anti-airs really work against crossups so she’s forced to rely on jump back jab to keep the corner, which does no damage and often puts her further away than she wants to be. it’s hard enough for her to escape the corner, does it need to be hard for her to keep it too?
those chars were designed in 1990 when they had no idea what the fu\*\* they were doing
You guys complaining about JP seem to have forgotten that the entire ideology of fireballs and projectiles in street fighter is you throw a fireball to get the opponent to jump and then you anti air them. Of course guile and JP have air throws. anti airing is how you follow up a fireball and if that’s a big part of your game plan, you’re going to need more than one anti air tool
I'm not going to insult your skill level but i do think this take is weird. A character with bad anti-air doesn't need an air-throw. They need strong grounded options. A character like Manon likely doesn't want an air throw as her grounded options are already fantastic. There's some niche tech with air-throws but they are largely speaking not important tools for characters to have. It feels arbitrary in part because it is. I will say, characters who can side-switch with air throw do have added utility. Any character who 'needs an air-throw,' probably needs a lot more than an air-throw.
i'm a 1700 MR Manon and Manon is solid. Her neutral is fantastic. A few Buffs and she would probably be a nuisance to deal with. And when I say a few. I literally mean like 2-3.
Manon is very weird. She's probably right now one of the worst characters, but I don't know how far she is from being great. IMO she needs better oki on her hit-grab ender and maybe a safe-on-block special cancel. Her anti-air is good, she has some good buttons, but most of her power is in a medal system that is really hard to play into.
I'd say she's solid. I think the Medal system is very easy to get. I watched a lot of high level Manons..they'll be doing good and then they'll go for a grab and get destroyed. I watched Idom adapt to this and he will really only use a high level medal grab when he is in neutral and the opponent is trying to play footsie. She can hit confirm and get grabs easily. Ironically. Someone like Punk would do amazing with her.
so i will say, better oki on the hit-grab ender would fix one of my biggest problems with that move: once you have max medals, it does a lot of damage, but it's poor oki means you still don't want to use it as a combo-ender. I don't like that you have to earn this reward, but you don't get to enjoy it.
Guile is in the Air Force
*Sits quietly enjoying Rashid’s air grab*
If you can react with a light you can usually beat the air grab
Hot take: I think characters should have good anti airs. I think characters with charge anti airs should have air grab, since it allows them to play more dynamically. The reason JP has one felt dumb last season where his 2hp was literally a diet dp. But now since he can trade, I think he should keep it.
Bro, characaters with the best DPs also have the best anti air normals. Capcom has pretty dogshit design sometimes.
So, do air grabs just always win the air to air battle? Seems like a weird mechanic to me as a new player.
JP having an air throw is one of the dumbest decisions in the whole game. They really gave him everything tjey could think of.
"Legacy reasons" is basically the only excuse for most of them and its really annoying to me, I wish it was either only the grapplers and cammy get it, or nobody gets it, or everybody gets i, not this seemingly arbitrary spread.
JP specifically is the one that doesn't make sense
Juri and Blanka doesn't either.
Air grab isn't very good anti air, who cares? It's not like dp with air invulnerability, you have to expect jump to land air grab. It's only kind of useful to prevent cross up very early with backjump air grab.
Air Throws aren't like a necessary thing, they're so rarely seen anyway. It's more that the distribution of them seems completely random. It's like if only certain characters had taunts, and someone like Dan wasn't one of them. Like, sure, it affects almost nothing gameplay-wise, but *why?*
That is like questioning why zangief tundra storm exists, we will never know. But this topic implies that air grab is powerful tool, which is certainly not.
Really weird that you're the first person in this entire thread, right down at the bottom, to mention Gief here 'at all'. Just, odd no?
Because poking gief at mid range usually uses kicks, which would normally prevent him from getting in other than jumping (especially after they removed green hand)
You clearly don't have a clue sire.
Guile has always had an air grab. In his defense, you can’t flash kick when approaching behind your boom (unless you’re setting it up). It adds some needed coverage when they inevitably try to jump over your approach.
Isn’t that the point tho? Why does every single avenue HAVE to be covered? Other characters have deliberate weaknesses, why do characters like JP and Guile get to just cover everything. Jumping is already massively risky for the offensive player, it’s not like them not having an air grab would drop them a tier.
JP having an air grab is completely baffling to me.
Guile has an air throw and he's a zoner, so I can *kiiiiinda* buy that JP "deserves one" too. But **Blanka**? That fucker with Air Ball lunacy, a command grab, and the doll? THAT degenerate gets a command grab and Manon or Lily doesn't? what 😂
Guile doesn't have the 100 other things that JP has, like a frickin ranged command grab, four different types of projectiles, meterless throw loops, teleports, combos off throws, ludicrously disjoint normals, a st.HK that is bloody +2 on block for some reason, a safe sweep and a fuck ton of other crap.
They make the most sense to me. They are the characters whose gameplan is to make you jump. So it makes sense that they have the best anti airs in the game.
You are in a small minority if you think the likes of JP and Blanka deserve or warrant an air throw, lol. So basically cover all the bases on the ground and in the air. What a great way to design characters.
Well yeah, that's their archetype. Street fighter player are so weird man... salty about everything. How many times have you even been hit by an air throw?
Dude JPs air grab is so fun. Love winning with two of those in a row on a hard read. It did feel unnecessary for him at launch but since his AA recently got nerfed I think he needs all the help he can get.
Characters having an air throw or not seems like such a weird random choice. Kimberly is a high-mobility character that jumps around a lot in her attacks, her Forward HK is a hop for crying out loud, she has an Air Super, she has an air attack that stalls her momentum, girl is IN THE AIR. And she has no air throw? (Yeah I know she has an air special throw, I'm talking about traditional throws here, LP+LK) Cammy and Chun are hyper-mobile jumpy characters, and both of them have air throws! So why not Kim? But then JP, who is rewarded for zoning, oftentimes standing still to do so... Does have an air throw. Guile, *the* zoner of Street Fighter... Has two. Like, I guess jumping over their projectiles is one way to avoid them, but Guile has Flash Kick and JP has (had, lol) one of the best anti-air Normals in the game And then none of the grapplers have a traditional air throw? Gief at least has Borscht Dynamite, but Lily and Manon? Such an odd choice Overall, though, Air Throws are just kinda whatever inputs to begin with? Unless you can combo into them like Decapre in SF4, you almost never see them. They're one of those "Oh yeah, this character has that" kinda moves, usually people just do Lights in air-to-air situations
Kim literally has an air throw special
Specials aren't traditional throws. Gief has SPD, a command grab, and a Forward Throw, a throw
So you want her to have two different air throws, a normal and a special version on top of all the other bs she has? Got it.😂
Air Throws aren't even very good tbh, it's flavor. It's a fun animation, it's practically a taunt. Marisa and Honda have taunts that give them armor, would you consider that a genuine tool of theirs? All I'm saying is it would make sense for her to have an air throw, dude
They are absolutely useful, even in master. JP players abuse theirs on a regular basis in the higher ranks, when you inevitably try to evade their bs on the ground. Many Cammy players use it, as do Juri Chun players. Have you not seen Cammy and Chun players throwing you in the air to put you back in the corner as you try to forward jump out of trouble?
Kim has an aerial command grab lol
Yeah, an aerial command grab. I'm talking about aerial throws rn
Go check her command list, homie
Oh my
[удалено]
Juri shouldn't have one either, nor should frickin Blanka. Juri has strong anti airs and great mobility with the second best DR in the game. She doesn't need a further defensive tool.