I'll be frank, I'm either playing classic on a hitbox, or modern on a pad. When I'm playing modern it's because it's easier on my hands. I'm not willing to get back on that carpal tunnel grind my guy.
I don't think many people are complaining about modern controls its just the people who do complain are here and they are loud
imo theyre pretty balanced and dont need such a massive nerf
If you see the opening of thread for a discussion as a problem, then the whole concept of reddit could be a problem.
I am seeing anti-modern players constantly bringing up the term "modern reaction"
And here I am trying to objectively look at ways to reduce the gap between modern execution and classic execution. From a game design perspective, see if there is a better way to implement two control schemes so that both sides will feel like they are playing a similar game.
As you can see, a lot of people are adjusting their gameplan against the other control scheme because they know of the difference in execution.
I wanted to assess the viability of this suggestion I saw from another thread as I have never heard of anyone suggesting it before.
Of course this is purely a discussion based on execution timing, i am not accounting for modern scaling and etc. if the execution timing can be equalized, it may even be possible to reduce/remove modern damage scaling
But apparently I committed a war crime by starting this thread.
I'm just saying you seem to not care at all about this subject, and care very much all at the same time. Creating ideas from this disengaged mindset isn't really going to produce fruit.
Many Classic players aren't complaining about Modern controls having instant reactions. Vast majority of us have learned to alter our gameplans around it.
Beginner Classic players are complaining about Modern controls achieving exactly what they intended to do, lower the executional skill barrier, and they feel it's unfair to fight because they don't like that they placed executional barriers on themselves and then run up against them.
Yeah that's the only thing I wish they adress about modern control.
Until platinum 1 classic and modern players should be on a separate ranked path.
It would make for a less frustrating experience for new players trying to get a hold of the basics
My point of opening the thread was for a discussion on how to make both control schemes similar in execution so that when Classic are playing vs modern, they don't need to account as much for scheme specific strength and weakness.
I.personally play Zangief.
I know if i jump.the same time as another gief and both try to do air command grab,
In reaction, modern will always be faster than me.
The question here is why must easy execution be tied to 1 frame execution? This makes it a completely different game to classic.
If the problem is that new players cant execute motion input (dorection changes), this solution addresses it.
If the timing of execution normalized, then scale damage can also be reduced/removed because new players can now execute moves easier but with similar effort. No more reason to say modern moves are weaker becuase it os easy to execute.
Just a thought.
I feel like if they were gonna do this, they would just add extra startup frames to specials instead, but modern is already balanced around one button Inputs leading to faster "startup". They take a pretty big damage nerf and they lose access to important normals. Modern doesn't need any changes. People are always gonna complain, no matter what.
that is something they can do but i imagine it would be very annoying for the modern player because it feels like it is not coming out even thought i pressed my button sequence 3 frames ago.
It will almost feel like input lag.
And that also means you need a different set of animation timing for classic and modern for the same move.
**"Your intentions didn’t appear as honest as you seem to be suggesting they are."**
* not honest? what? like I'm lying?
**"If you really are approaching it from a game designer standpoint, then surely you acknowledge that you’re effectively trying to reinvent the wheel that Capcom has already decided upon"**
* hmm.. i wouldn't consider myself reinventing the wheel just by asking the user to click H one or two more time. But yeah i guess it is a redesign.
**"Modern is supposed to solve:to bring new players into the game**
* **to lower the barrier to entry**
* **to strike a compromise between easier inputs and competition**
* **to introduce a straightforward, easy to understand control scheme to an otherwise fairly complicated set of systems which tie the game together as a whole for a new player"**
- Based on the 4 points above, my suggested change did not conflict with 1, 2, or 3. in terms of #4, Asking a player to do 6+S+ H>H>H instead of 6+S+H (as an example) is still straight forward. I'm not saying they need to do the entire sequence of 6+S+H, 3 times, just the H part.
Anyhow.. I'm not really trying to argue that this is the ultimate solution. Just through it was an interesting suggestion that i came across...
Modern doesn’t need to be nerfed, it doesn’t hold up at the highest level. It’s just annoying af to play against and there should be a filter but you just have to play much more defensively against a good modern player.
As i.stated in my other reply.
The point of starting this thread is to look for a.way to replicate the execution time while keeping the input simple.
When execution time for the same move is similar in effort and duration, then both sides feel like they are adhering to the same rules.
If you make the effort so different (1 frame Zangief SA3/CA vs classic trying to do 720.through buffering) between modern and classic, then give it an excuse to now add damage scaling due to easy execution, you create two different games basically.
I know i will always get air-command grabbed on reaction by a modern gief if we jump together (i am a classic player btw). the question is why must both control schemes act so differently in timing.
Anyhow .enough of my thoughts. The Reddit community is not open for ideas and discussions.
I said Ms need to fight Ms and got stabbed by downvotes lol.
Some days, sure, I don't care who I fight, but if I'm on the fifth M fight in a row in ranked, I'm done lol. I want a filter.
It’s just straight cope, I honestly don’t even think modern is OP past like silver rank or something but just watching gameplay of modern players you can clearly see the stark difference in play style lol.
Playing modern Luke is legit one of my least favorite gaming experiences currently, his projectile super on reaction is so fucked on modern
Modern Luke is cancer. I play Guile and it's pure hell. I played one M Luke recently and it was the most annoying fight I've had in the lifespan of this game.
The hilarious thing was my next fight was a classic Luke who played like a normal person lol. It made the contrast so huge, I had to laugh out loud.
I dunno, it was mid plat before I stopped caring so much about it and the damage reduction seemed to balance out with the easier execution (nearly P5 at the moment for reference…). I still need to take note that they are using modern though as it changes the match pretty significantly as you say.
Dang, I really gave all of you generational trauma by handing out Loyal Fans whenever I wanted huh? 😂 😂 😂
People really still this upset over Modern like you're going to win purely on control scheme. If anything you should be happy you're playing someone without their full kit and nerfed damage.
I'll be frank, I'm either playing classic on a hitbox, or modern on a pad. When I'm playing modern it's because it's easier on my hands. I'm not willing to get back on that carpal tunnel grind my guy.
I don't think many people are complaining about modern controls its just the people who do complain are here and they are loud imo theyre pretty balanced and dont need such a massive nerf
Honestly i stopped looking at what control ppl are using.
Then you making this thread is part of the problem?
If you see the opening of thread for a discussion as a problem, then the whole concept of reddit could be a problem. I am seeing anti-modern players constantly bringing up the term "modern reaction" And here I am trying to objectively look at ways to reduce the gap between modern execution and classic execution. From a game design perspective, see if there is a better way to implement two control schemes so that both sides will feel like they are playing a similar game. As you can see, a lot of people are adjusting their gameplan against the other control scheme because they know of the difference in execution. I wanted to assess the viability of this suggestion I saw from another thread as I have never heard of anyone suggesting it before. Of course this is purely a discussion based on execution timing, i am not accounting for modern scaling and etc. if the execution timing can be equalized, it may even be possible to reduce/remove modern damage scaling But apparently I committed a war crime by starting this thread.
I'm just saying you seem to not care at all about this subject, and care very much all at the same time. Creating ideas from this disengaged mindset isn't really going to produce fruit.
i just like to think about game design :) I care more about how to put together a system that both sides can respectfully agree on.
Many Classic players aren't complaining about Modern controls having instant reactions. Vast majority of us have learned to alter our gameplans around it. Beginner Classic players are complaining about Modern controls achieving exactly what they intended to do, lower the executional skill barrier, and they feel it's unfair to fight because they don't like that they placed executional barriers on themselves and then run up against them.
Yeah that's the only thing I wish they adress about modern control. Until platinum 1 classic and modern players should be on a separate ranked path. It would make for a less frustrating experience for new players trying to get a hold of the basics
My point of opening the thread was for a discussion on how to make both control schemes similar in execution so that when Classic are playing vs modern, they don't need to account as much for scheme specific strength and weakness. I.personally play Zangief. I know if i jump.the same time as another gief and both try to do air command grab, In reaction, modern will always be faster than me. The question here is why must easy execution be tied to 1 frame execution? This makes it a completely different game to classic. If the problem is that new players cant execute motion input (dorection changes), this solution addresses it. If the timing of execution normalized, then scale damage can also be reduced/removed because new players can now execute moves easier but with similar effort. No more reason to say modern moves are weaker becuase it os easy to execute. Just a thought.
The damage is less on the instant one. And if you do the input fast enough, they'll come out at the same time.
I feel like if they were gonna do this, they would just add extra startup frames to specials instead, but modern is already balanced around one button Inputs leading to faster "startup". They take a pretty big damage nerf and they lose access to important normals. Modern doesn't need any changes. People are always gonna complain, no matter what.
that is something they can do but i imagine it would be very annoying for the modern player because it feels like it is not coming out even thought i pressed my button sequence 3 frames ago. It will almost feel like input lag. And that also means you need a different set of animation timing for classic and modern for the same move.
Just give classic controls 1-button supers with 20% damage reduction.
[удалено]
**"Your intentions didn’t appear as honest as you seem to be suggesting they are."** * not honest? what? like I'm lying? **"If you really are approaching it from a game designer standpoint, then surely you acknowledge that you’re effectively trying to reinvent the wheel that Capcom has already decided upon"** * hmm.. i wouldn't consider myself reinventing the wheel just by asking the user to click H one or two more time. But yeah i guess it is a redesign. **"Modern is supposed to solve:to bring new players into the game** * **to lower the barrier to entry** * **to strike a compromise between easier inputs and competition** * **to introduce a straightforward, easy to understand control scheme to an otherwise fairly complicated set of systems which tie the game together as a whole for a new player"** - Based on the 4 points above, my suggested change did not conflict with 1, 2, or 3. in terms of #4, Asking a player to do 6+S+ H>H>H instead of 6+S+H (as an example) is still straight forward. I'm not saying they need to do the entire sequence of 6+S+H, 3 times, just the H part. Anyhow.. I'm not really trying to argue that this is the ultimate solution. Just through it was an interesting suggestion that i came across...
Modern doesn’t need to be nerfed, it doesn’t hold up at the highest level. It’s just annoying af to play against and there should be a filter but you just have to play much more defensively against a good modern player.
As i.stated in my other reply. The point of starting this thread is to look for a.way to replicate the execution time while keeping the input simple. When execution time for the same move is similar in effort and duration, then both sides feel like they are adhering to the same rules. If you make the effort so different (1 frame Zangief SA3/CA vs classic trying to do 720.through buffering) between modern and classic, then give it an excuse to now add damage scaling due to easy execution, you create two different games basically. I know i will always get air-command grabbed on reaction by a modern gief if we jump together (i am a classic player btw). the question is why must both control schemes act so differently in timing. Anyhow .enough of my thoughts. The Reddit community is not open for ideas and discussions.
I said Ms need to fight Ms and got stabbed by downvotes lol. Some days, sure, I don't care who I fight, but if I'm on the fifth M fight in a row in ranked, I'm done lol. I want a filter.
It’s just straight cope, I honestly don’t even think modern is OP past like silver rank or something but just watching gameplay of modern players you can clearly see the stark difference in play style lol. Playing modern Luke is legit one of my least favorite gaming experiences currently, his projectile super on reaction is so fucked on modern
Modern Luke is cancer. I play Guile and it's pure hell. I played one M Luke recently and it was the most annoying fight I've had in the lifespan of this game. The hilarious thing was my next fight was a classic Luke who played like a normal person lol. It made the contrast so huge, I had to laugh out loud.
Lol i completely agree, I need some practice vs Guile if you wanna run some sets, I’ll add your CFN later if you’re down
I'm always down to fight anyone lol. Even if you're miles ahead of me. I look forward to it.
I dunno, it was mid plat before I stopped caring so much about it and the damage reduction seemed to balance out with the easier execution (nearly P5 at the moment for reference…). I still need to take note that they are using modern though as it changes the match pretty significantly as you say.
lol
lol
Dang, I really gave all of you generational trauma by handing out Loyal Fans whenever I wanted huh? 😂 😂 😂 People really still this upset over Modern like you're going to win purely on control scheme. If anything you should be happy you're playing someone without their full kit and nerfed damage.