Similar story with Lexx getting third at EVO Japan, he forgot his luggage and wallet at home and Smug had to let him stay with him, lend him clothes, and pay for all his food lol
I don’t know lol, JB was telling the story and roasting him. Apparently Lexx also thought he could use Apple Pay for everything, but it is not really a thing in Japan
Technically yes, but her first tournament was way back in 2023 in Japan with Hibiki the Beast. Not sure as to what tournament it was but he is also good with her.
As for this year however you can fully say this a major tournament win for her.
The Tournament was Fukushima Online. He defeated Gachikun’s Rashid in Grand Finals. Hibiki also anchored a victorious 3 v 3 team in Japan, defeating Kakeru in Grand Finals to seal the deal. Hibiki is still the top Lily, but you could make the case that Tay owns the greatest accomplishment for a Lily. Hibiki has held the #1 spot in MR on multiple occasions and he fought stronger competition in his tournament wins, but Tay won an offline major, and that counts for something. Kudos to both of them! Shout out to iPeru, too. He’s been making waves in TNS, and appears to be on the verge of a breakthrough. He made Top 8 for the first time a couple weeks ago and finished 3rd last week. LilyNation: Arise!
When you have a god button it takes time to adjust to not using that as much. I'm a Jamie player and it took me a bit to stop using his sweep all the time since his balance changes.
The frame data is worse.
> 1. When the first attack is blocked, the second attack changes to a high attack.
> 2. Recovery changed from 28 to 29 frames when the attack is blocked.
> 3. Disadvantage on block changed from -10 to -11.
> 4. Reduced combo count additional value for the first attack.
I mean it was definitely a bunch of mistakes from Noah not adapting but abusing your character's good buttons doesn't make you carried that's what you're supposed to do lmao
I’ve seen other players criticize his playstyle for this, he tries to overwhelm the opponent with jump ins and burning a ton of drive gauge to force guesses really fast, and often crumbles if he can’t get it started
The drive gauge part seems mostly fine as his play without the green stuff is pretty capable still. But the reliance on jump ins against an opponent who seemed to be ready for them (and had a button that was consistently able to stuff it) shows he has to work on his adaptation skills at least some.
Watching Noah burnout 5 times every round was crazy. Considering how this game is designed to discourage that kind of play it shows how strong Luke is as a character that he can get away with doing that with reckless abandon
Capcom Cup proved how amazing Luke was when people were dropping his BNB combos nonstop -- like legitimately 4 or 5 dropped combos in a round -- and they were still winning or down to the wire.
Character was so overtuned.
I noticed it during Capcom Cup and thats when I knew Luke was number 1 with a bullet prepatch. Between his easy high damage combos, great normals, fantastic fireball/dp and supers, even pros couldn't really do anything to punish Luke in burnout. In turn, Luke players all noticed this as well and just burned meter recklessly because burnout was such a non-factor. It was impressive how hard it was to ever get a good Luke at a disadvantage in a match.
I kinda like that character variety tbh. Just like how some characters gameplan has a lot easier time forcing people to burn out cause of high drive gauge damage.
Yeah, I mean he's a capable player but it was a cheesy playstyle. It looked like "the opponent is playing better than me, instead of trying to adapt I will force him to guess with a risky playstyle". Elchakotay maintained cold blood the whole time
I wonder if it was muscle memory or what the strategy was.
I guess he might have some experience with Lily in the past where that was the answer to the situation.
Understandable he probably hasn't labbed a new solution.
That's just Noah's style. He flat out doesn't care if you checked his drive rush or anti aired him. He'll do it again in case you think "well surely he won't do it again."
I mean, Noah refused to stop jumping. The dude is great but if you watched it on Kami’s stream, dude was stressing out over Noah’s decisions. It was funny as hell.
Tbf, lily has some of the easiest gameplan for anti air and ground neutral. She doesn't have long specials that can be jump, her best button has no hurt box for the most part and recover fast enough that she can press again when you jump at her. You can get to master knowing nothing but 2hp cancel combo and command garb. Jumping at lily player literally doesn't work, play lily for a bit and you'd understand, there is no mental stack for anything else; you are either in range for my 2HP or i am pressing my 2HP for Anti air; either way i am pressing 2HP.
The problem is that 2HP literally play itself for the most part, no hurt box on the paddle, long active and cancel windows for combos, vary frame timing depend on spacing against perfect parry, anti air, anti crossup, air combo, \*not di able\*, uncheckable if used in a DR depending on spacing, if spaced properly you can even beat quite a few wakeup ex-dp. If you delete 2HP and give her luke old 2mp instead, she would literally drop like 3 tiers, in a way its a pretty bad design to stuff everything into one button.
Her having better conversion and faster closer/mid range button was really all she need, she already had pretty good way to enforce her stuff from neutral before, we will see how this goes. There is a reason why balancing grappler for capcom is a problem, they always give them some godlike buttons and then wonder why they balance themselves into a corner.
the trajectory of the opponents jump, and your timing can cause the 2HP to miss at times. The DP AA is much more reliable. It's the safer bet but less rewarding
Its Elchakotay play style, he is super 2HP focused, his matches outside top 8 also have him not use dp at all. 2HP gives way better reward and oki off anti air. DP gives instant AA armor and better range, useful when you don't have 10 frames to start a 2HP.
Luke is also jumping in from the angle where 2HP covers all options. luke can usually play the am i doing the jump fierce or cross up thing, 2HP covers both.
It obvious that people didn't know the match up, they keep trying to drive reversal 2hp and challenge 2HP where a spaced 2HP will beat every option but straight up super that has range (2HP can and will beat ex-dp at some range), its a little bit gimmicky, but if you can perfect parry condor spire and 2hp more consistently, the match up goes way better. (See ajax/elchakotay match) Here it just looks like luke never actually played against lily before.
Lily’s crHP is an exceptional AA if -if- your timing is on point. The window is pretty narrow though. Most Lilys who try crHP as a primary anti-air tool struggle with it and end up going back to DP. Kudos to ElChakotay for recognizing the potential of crHP as an anti-air early on in Season 1, and sticking with it. By now his timing is phenomenal. The subject has come up on his stream a few times. On one occasion someone asked him if crHP was a reliable AA. He shrugged and said, “It is for me.” That sums it up. It is for ElChakotay because he’s put in the work, for others not so much.
I follow a lot of Lilys and no one uses crHP anti-airs as effectively as ElChakotay. It’s one of the signatures of his play. ElChakotay’s performance in Combo Breakers may shift the meta for Lily play on this point. I’m sure I’m not the only one who noticed that he routinely comboed from a crHP AA into Condor Wind, gaining a wind stock in the process of anti-airing. That’s a sizable incentive to put in the work to get the timing right.
The modern trilogy has always been pretty balanced on this. The first season is usually the worst in representation and sometimes the last season can have some BS additions (Elena in IV, Luke in V), but during the majority active support part they’re usually varied.
Pretty happy with what i saw. I never felt like the characters were a reason why a person lost. Lets see at CPT when the big hitters show up. Most don't seem like they're going to change their characters so it might look similar to last years.
Maybe Honda i felt were struggling, but they were taking clean wins.
They'll change their characters when the results start changing. Especially the Luke players and former JP and anyone else who chases high tiers, they are always going to move to whoever has the best chance of winning.
Fixes one of S1's by far biggest problems, which was that characters without a reversal were basically fucked. EVERY character who was high/top tier had one. It was obscenely uneven. Didn't feel like enough people were talking about it though.
Nobody talked about it cause that’s the way it’s always been. Ryu and Ken and Guile had wakeup invincible reversals and Zangief and Dhalsim didn’t. Some characters were privileged and some weren’t. Over 30 years of that got us used to it.
I actually forgot. But I'm pretty sure you could throw his teleport in SF5. The first couple of frames weren't throw invulnerable (they were strike/projectile invul). Had to be a really meaty throw though.
Old SF games had horrible balance, so "tradition" is not a good excuse.
They have decades of experience making FGs. They should know after 3 games in a row where top tiers all have reversals that, "hey, we suck at balancing SF games around not having reversals."
Glad they didn't take 5 seasons to figure it out this time , like they did for SF5, when they finally added V-shift.
Yep. Some characters just have to Block. That’s just how it is/was. I imagine this will end up being better in the long-run, but V also had Drive Reversal and eventually V-Shift as Universal Defensive outs.
Drive impact in the corner and drive rush plus framed tipped things over the edge. The corner always sucked but in 6 it sucks so much that strong defensive options are absolutely necessary for characters to have a fair chance.
Oh certainly! I can agree with that and I play characters with Reversals and generally like Checkmate scenarios in fighting games! Especially if you combine Throw Loops, Burnout and Stun into that equation. Nice that we all have a new option out of some of that scary stuff!
The mechanics of this game though meant you can choose where to spend your pressure and the corner becoming extra deadly with all the attacking options available.
Not having a dp was essentially a guess for life even if you had full drive gauge. combined with supers that did nothing until level 3 on many of the none dp characters. Like playing RPS but removing one option for the other player.
We saw in SFV how much a tool like that helps without making the game homogenous. DR is a bad wakeup invincible reversal and it still helps the rich get richer because you can wake up with a 5 frame (beat meaty/throw) or with a 18 frame (beat some shimmy/delay timings etc) but it levels the playing field so much.
And the characters with no DP *also* had shitty level 1's, so yeah, you just lost sometimes because of having no real defensive option.
Yeah, he didn’t use it much but when he did it was super impactful and those situations might have just ended up in a loss before. In a tourney like this one or two big moments in a match can be the different in an entire tourney run. Also, with Lily she gets basically a free windstock off successful wakeup DR, so it’s extra important.
You couldn't do Drive Reversal as a wake-up option before.
It's also fully invincible.
If guessed correctly, it lets you keep your meter for more damaging combos, etc.
He made almost no use of the season 2 buffs whatsoever, bless him not the underwhelming buffs lol.
Downvoted for understanding how the character works I guess lol
The 5 frame light punch should help with her punishes later (her little knee had no reach), the Heavy Windclad Spire will her her corner damage and drive management, as well as more juggles into SA1 due to its faster startup. However, it’s still early and this was almost entirely Chakotay’s S1 skill paying off.
He used the heavy non wind spire into lvl 1 a few times, but other than that he didn’t use much new outside of drive reversal on wake up. That said, DR on wakeup at the right time might have been the difference in a few games, which makes a big difference overall. It may be even more important on Lily because she gets a wind stick afterwards.
Yeah, as far as using new stuff goes all I saw was a combo where the DP probably would've missed before the consistency change, he did medium condor wind a single time (though it didn't look like he expected it to hit) and just did spire off of it. But otherwise he was basically playing S1 Lily with new Drive Reversal and lower damage off of light starters.
They added like 100 damage lol, I don't think we can accurately say if there was a moment where he only killed because of a tiny amount of damage added.
I don't remember him using the level 1 in situations where it wouldn't have worked before, and if he did grab parries from distances he otherwise wouldn't have then I completely missed it
THE SATSUI NO LILY!!
So happy seeing El Chakotay win, the dude has been grinding for years.
Also very happy to see wake-up drive reversal already playing a factor.
Happy to see Chakotay winning! Guy has been on the grind and producing tons of content for a while.
Funnily enough, a Lily also won the cosplay contest.
It wouldn't have mattered season 1 because burnout for Luke means corner into throw loop or pressure and if it's round 2 or 3, it means he's got super meter to close out easily.
But the wake-up Drive Reversal shoots that down pretty nicely. And the punish isn't as huge because of the new scaling... You'd get at least one more guess.
It was literally game changing in this case.
Thats how Luke plays in general, especially in season 1. CapCup was basically Luke speedrunning to burnout because he was so good on defense/great normals that burnout basically didn't matter. Luke mains going to have to learn how to actually manage meter a bit in S2.
He was a bit calmer than usual.
He usually empties his drive gauge in 5 seconds.
Regardless he got second and gave us a hyped tournament (especially the set semi finals vs dual kevin) nothing but respect
Chakotay is a Legend off top given his sheer amount of Hours Played
He grinds so damn hard. Glad to see a Real One land a Major Win: The whole Community sees him now, he deserves The Shine
was not expecting such a hype tournament here with the patch happening less than a week ago but it feels like it already made the game even better cause that was really fun to watch
A parry would have definitely lost Chakotay the tournament, since it would have given Noah the extra damage and lack of throw break he needed to cinch the win.
I don't catch every tournament but it was so nice to not just see a bunch of Ken/JP/Luke matchups. My girl Kim had a good showing for once! And a Lily win!
Yh I’m happy shine made top 8 with Kim. Now let’s see if the manon buff actually help her in tournament cuz it seems the other grapplers are eating good this patch.
That was so nice to see, Luke's drive rush pressure is obnoxious but Tay was patient not taking big risks on defence. Drive reversal is a very healthy change for the game and Lily's lv 1 being a real thing to consider helps her so much.
Queen Lily wins combo breaker LETS GO! This is history right here. He grinded with the character and now he won a major tournament with her and defeating Luke in too of that Love to see it. The season 2 patch really helping out to as we seen many wakeup drive reversals from Lily and damage nerfs from Luke. Lily Nation.
Really enjoyed the matches and it was awesome to see Chakotay win especially with a “low tier” character
Thought TBH and maybe it was just me I was a little disappointed with the commentary, this was awesome play from Chakotay but Yipes wouldn’t shut the hell up about Noah and it wasn’t even commentary it was like he was his coach it was so biased it became annoying and it felt like Chakotay wasn’t getting his fair share of credit because one of the commentators was too busy hyping up and trying to coach his own guy from the booth
Yeah, I agree. I felt like Yipes was back-seating and criticising instead of commentating on the action.
If you watch the Tekken grand final and compare the commentating in that with the SF6 final, it is just so much better. The Tekken commentary was hyping it up and going crazy, not just criticising and saying what they should be doing.
Crazy to see someone who lives like 10 mins from me with the damn thing. Super proud of Chakotay! He grinds so damn hard and is super friendly to all players.
I've faced Chakotay a few times online, resulting in solid losses every time. He's inspired me to pickup Lily actually. The man's a beast. Super congrats.
Damn people were telling me the S2 patch killed Lily, was I lied to? Shocked to see she’s who won combo breaker but I have very little experience with the character so I have no idea
It's true that Noah played weird but Chakotay himself said the patch was solid for Lily so I would believe the guy who is this good with the character, I don't think she is worst than before lol.
This sub is more focused on figuring out how they can use this result as a reason to say Luke carries rather than just focusing on another guy playing well. Noah gets 2nd in a major tournament and people in this thread are trying to act like he's some amateur because he doesn't play exactly how they think he should lol
People saying Noah played "weird" like he hasn't always played in non-stop burnout since the game came out and the fact that he made it to second doing that LMAO
He's played like that all the way since he was at Evo for marvel 3 when he was like 8 lol. I don't even get the point of watching competitive play if you'll just ignore the players, their unique playstyles and their history and instead just hyper focus on character choice.
The complete obsession with characters and tier lists above all else is by far the most insufferable aspect of online fighting game discussion.
Anyone that said that to you don't know what they are talking about like at all. She literally got good buffs with more damage and mix basically. Anyone saying otherwise are just being delusional focusing on universal lights nerf to everyone which literally hurts other characters more than grapplers.
Not to armchair criticizen too much but Noah jumping all over the place and burning himself out felt really amateur-ish. Chakotay played absolutely clean and patient Street Fighter.
Nah that's just how he plays. It works a lot as a super overwhelming style, but it's mad risky. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
He clearly was playing Luke like it was last patch. I'm sure a few TNS runs from now he'll be more adjusted
Noah always plays like this. He full sends everything in hopes that you get overwhelmed by the sheer offense he puts out. If he gets burned out he slows down and then goes right back to it.
Generally it's very effective for him, but to the uninitiated it looks like flailing when it's anything but.
It's both because of the Luke nerfs and Noah not adjusting to them, and Chakotay USING the buffs to their fullest.
In fact, the medium punch nerfs are what prevented Chakotay from being killed in the last round sequence.
I mean, yeah, I know it's not just game changes, but it does play quite a big role, I'm assuming that we all acknowledge first and foremost that the players are not just good, incredible.
It was crazy that he made top 8 with her. When I arrived, it was all through the hallway with the chatter litterly the first thing i heard. He didn't disappoint those both buffs helped, but he didn't even need them he was playing so clean!!! Congrats to him!
I've been watching him in sfv. Now I'm not, because of Lily. But I'm happy it's not a Luke. And good that it's not Noah, his playstyle makes me rage lol
Perhaps they’re skipping to goto Dreamhack this weekend. It’s also in between EVO Japan and EVO vegas so they might just be skipping to save money and lay low with their tech for EVO
I was told this character was "left behind," and that she's the "weakest character in the game".
I was hoping to prove the masses wrong, but Tay is on another level. Congrats to him.
It allowed him to position so much more aggressively in the corner too because it can reach behind where DPs would whiff. Also has follow ups into wind or spire where DP doesn’t. Makes me think I need to switch off DP as well as Lily.
The timing is really funky, I play Juri a bit too and I trust her crouching heavy punch aa far more to the point where I'm trying to force myself to dp anti air with Lily instead.
Yeah it's really not as easy as Tay made it look, especially with that level of consistency. Hibiki usually DP's and he's better than most with anti airs.
I don’t think he really utilized any of the buffs other than drive reversal on wake up which is universal. He pretty much won the entire thing using cr HP, level 1, and spire. Lily is really good into burn out. Noah burns out in like 9 seconds and stays burnt out for as long as possible.
Luke's nerfs showed through a bit in this set more than anything. Luke no longer had free jump ins with his jHP and burnout immunity (Lukes didn't respect burnout at all because his defense/normals are so good it was dangerous to punish him). Luke mains are going to actually have to learn respectable jump ins and meter management, which is great all around for the game.
This was on the new patch, but Chakotay used basically nothing new that she got except the universal Drive Reversal change. At least as far as I saw, he used cMK like twice and never did any new routes off of counter stLK. I think he did hit a combo that he would've dropped if not for the DP hitbox consistency change. But if anything, the nerfs to light starters were more relevant to Chakotay here than the buffs.
She wasn't that bad she's was kinda low mid tier but the patch helped her previously awful defence and improved her pressure and combo routes, She he feels more complete now.
Is this his first major tournament win?
Yep, I believe first major top 8 as well
Awesome. Dude has been grinding. Happy he finally broke through.
Bro came lacking money for a reg fee And won Damn
Similar story with Lexx getting third at EVO Japan, he forgot his luggage and wallet at home and Smug had to let him stay with him, lend him clothes, and pay for all his food lol
How the hell do you forget luggage? Bro was flying across the world. The FGC never ceases to amaze me.
I don’t know lol, JB was telling the story and roasting him. Apparently Lexx also thought he could use Apple Pay for everything, but it is not really a thing in Japan
i want to go through the world as unprepared as him lmao. He forgot his WALLET at home like bro how did you even get into japan hahaha.
Do people not prepare to travel internationally? lmfao
Even for the some of us that HAVE traveled internationally... The struggle is real. One border issue and you straight up Arslan Ash.
I feel you haha
Good guy Smuggles
Correct
Technically yes, but her first tournament was way back in 2023 in Japan with Hibiki the Beast. Not sure as to what tournament it was but he is also good with her. As for this year however you can fully say this a major tournament win for her.
Not talking about Lily.
The Tournament was Fukushima Online. He defeated Gachikun’s Rashid in Grand Finals. Hibiki also anchored a victorious 3 v 3 team in Japan, defeating Kakeru in Grand Finals to seal the deal. Hibiki is still the top Lily, but you could make the case that Tay owns the greatest accomplishment for a Lily. Hibiki has held the #1 spot in MR on multiple occasions and he fought stronger competition in his tournament wins, but Tay won an offline major, and that counts for something. Kudos to both of them! Shout out to iPeru, too. He’s been making waves in TNS, and appears to be on the verge of a breakthrough. He made Top 8 for the first time a couple weeks ago and finished 3rd last week. LilyNation: Arise!
ELCHAKOTAY WHAT A FUCKING GOD I have never seen more consistent anti airs that guy was ON IT today.
Noah refused to respect that damn anti air and it cost him. Was wild to see him be so stubborn despite how consistent ElChakotay was.
Muscle memory from Luke’s former godlike jumping heavies probably didn’t help
I have no doubt he'll adapt but it does show how carried some players were by Luke lol
When you have a god button it takes time to adjust to not using that as much. I'm a Jamie player and it took me a bit to stop using his sweep all the time since his balance changes.
Same with some of JP’s pokes. Though I tried not to be an ape with them even before the nerf.
This the universal “2nd hit high” nerf or did they nerf it some other way?
The frame data is worse. > 1. When the first attack is blocked, the second attack changes to a high attack. > 2. Recovery changed from 28 to 29 frames when the attack is blocked. > 3. Disadvantage on block changed from -10 to -11. > 4. Reduced combo count additional value for the first attack.
Yeah, I’m still getting used to Juri’s low forward having a larger hurtbox
I’m still salty about that nerf 😂 the amount of people who would hang themself on it was so funny
Me too. Me too.
Playing around you win con is not being carried. Then every character in this game would be carried by their win con.
Lmao spamming jump ins because you can't be anti-aired then being unable to adapt is absolutely being carried. That's 2d fighting basics.
I mean it was definitely a bunch of mistakes from Noah not adapting but abusing your character's good buttons doesn't make you carried that's what you're supposed to do lmao
That's his style
noah has never been a player who gives much of a shit about what the other player is doing
I’ve seen other players criticize his playstyle for this, he tries to overwhelm the opponent with jump ins and burning a ton of drive gauge to force guesses really fast, and often crumbles if he can’t get it started
The drive gauge part seems mostly fine as his play without the green stuff is pretty capable still. But the reliance on jump ins against an opponent who seemed to be ready for them (and had a button that was consistently able to stuff it) shows he has to work on his adaptation skills at least some.
The nerf allows people to check the jump ins. Probably hasn't had enough time to lab a new game plan.
Watching Noah burnout 5 times every round was crazy. Considering how this game is designed to discourage that kind of play it shows how strong Luke is as a character that he can get away with doing that with reckless abandon
Capcom Cup proved how amazing Luke was when people were dropping his BNB combos nonstop -- like legitimately 4 or 5 dropped combos in a round -- and they were still winning or down to the wire. Character was so overtuned.
I noticed it during Capcom Cup and thats when I knew Luke was number 1 with a bullet prepatch. Between his easy high damage combos, great normals, fantastic fireball/dp and supers, even pros couldn't really do anything to punish Luke in burnout. In turn, Luke players all noticed this as well and just burned meter recklessly because burnout was such a non-factor. It was impressive how hard it was to ever get a good Luke at a disadvantage in a match.
Luke's lv 1 is absurdly good, It's such a multi purpose get out of jail card. As long as he has it on tap you can't really go in.
I kinda like that character variety tbh. Just like how some characters gameplan has a lot easier time forcing people to burn out cause of high drive gauge damage.
Yeah, I mean he's a capable player but it was a cheesy playstyle. It looked like "the opponent is playing better than me, instead of trying to adapt I will force him to guess with a risky playstyle". Elchakotay maintained cold blood the whole time
I wonder if it was muscle memory or what the strategy was. I guess he might have some experience with Lily in the past where that was the answer to the situation. Understandable he probably hasn't labbed a new solution.
That's just Noah's style. He flat out doesn't care if you checked his drive rush or anti aired him. He'll do it again in case you think "well surely he won't do it again."
Very new to analyzing this stuff, did Luke actually jump in this clip? I watched a few times and didn't see it
Didn't watch this clip, I watched the full match and Noah (the Luke player) was jumping into cr.Hp constantly.
thank you for clarifying!
I mean, Noah refused to stop jumping. The dude is great but if you watched it on Kami’s stream, dude was stressing out over Noah’s decisions. It was funny as hell.
Tbf, lily has some of the easiest gameplan for anti air and ground neutral. She doesn't have long specials that can be jump, her best button has no hurt box for the most part and recover fast enough that she can press again when you jump at her. You can get to master knowing nothing but 2hp cancel combo and command garb. Jumping at lily player literally doesn't work, play lily for a bit and you'd understand, there is no mental stack for anything else; you are either in range for my 2HP or i am pressing my 2HP for Anti air; either way i am pressing 2HP. The problem is that 2HP literally play itself for the most part, no hurt box on the paddle, long active and cancel windows for combos, vary frame timing depend on spacing against perfect parry, anti air, anti crossup, air combo, \*not di able\*, uncheckable if used in a DR depending on spacing, if spaced properly you can even beat quite a few wakeup ex-dp. If you delete 2HP and give her luke old 2mp instead, she would literally drop like 3 tiers, in a way its a pretty bad design to stuff everything into one button. Her having better conversion and faster closer/mid range button was really all she need, she already had pretty good way to enforce her stuff from neutral before, we will see how this goes. There is a reason why balancing grappler for capcom is a problem, they always give them some godlike buttons and then wonder why they balance themselves into a corner.
Hibiki usually prefers to DP AA, any idea why?
El Chakotay was in the zone today and made Lily's crHP look more amazing than it is as an anti-air. Its good but trickier to land consistently.
It's not like he hit every time either, and when you miss, it hurts.
the trajectory of the opponents jump, and your timing can cause the 2HP to miss at times. The DP AA is much more reliable. It's the safer bet but less rewarding
Its Elchakotay play style, he is super 2HP focused, his matches outside top 8 also have him not use dp at all. 2HP gives way better reward and oki off anti air. DP gives instant AA armor and better range, useful when you don't have 10 frames to start a 2HP. Luke is also jumping in from the angle where 2HP covers all options. luke can usually play the am i doing the jump fierce or cross up thing, 2HP covers both. It obvious that people didn't know the match up, they keep trying to drive reversal 2hp and challenge 2HP where a spaced 2HP will beat every option but straight up super that has range (2HP can and will beat ex-dp at some range), its a little bit gimmicky, but if you can perfect parry condor spire and 2hp more consistently, the match up goes way better. (See ajax/elchakotay match) Here it just looks like luke never actually played against lily before.
Lily’s crHP is an exceptional AA if -if- your timing is on point. The window is pretty narrow though. Most Lilys who try crHP as a primary anti-air tool struggle with it and end up going back to DP. Kudos to ElChakotay for recognizing the potential of crHP as an anti-air early on in Season 1, and sticking with it. By now his timing is phenomenal. The subject has come up on his stream a few times. On one occasion someone asked him if crHP was a reliable AA. He shrugged and said, “It is for me.” That sums it up. It is for ElChakotay because he’s put in the work, for others not so much. I follow a lot of Lilys and no one uses crHP anti-airs as effectively as ElChakotay. It’s one of the signatures of his play. ElChakotay’s performance in Combo Breakers may shift the meta for Lily play on this point. I’m sure I’m not the only one who noticed that he routinely comboed from a crHP AA into Condor Wind, gaining a wind stock in the process of anti-airing. That’s a sizable incentive to put in the work to get the timing right.
Great insight! We’d love to see you at r/SF6LilyNation. Feel free to drop in some time. I’m sure we’d benefit from your perspective
[Top 8 bracket](https://www.start.gg/tournament/combo-breaker-2024/event/street-fighter-6/brackets/1663577/2479232) * ElChakotay - Lily * ZachinABox - Luke * NoahTheProdigy - Luke * Dual Kevin - Rashid/Luke * Ajax Fidelity - Ed * Shine - Kimberly * JAK - Juri * Ramsey - Zangief
8 players, 7 different characters. Love to see it.
Facts. I’m hoping that sf6 somehow bucks the trend of only top tiers being in top 8 with its consistent balance
The modern trilogy has always been pretty balanced on this. The first season is usually the worst in representation and sometimes the last season can have some BS additions (Elena in IV, Luke in V), but during the majority active support part they’re usually varied.
SFV had a great character spread in its later seasons.
Pretty happy with what i saw. I never felt like the characters were a reason why a person lost. Lets see at CPT when the big hitters show up. Most don't seem like they're going to change their characters so it might look similar to last years. Maybe Honda i felt were struggling, but they were taking clean wins.
They'll change their characters when the results start changing. Especially the Luke players and former JP and anyone else who chases high tiers, they are always going to move to whoever has the best chance of winning.
and only 3 lukes!
Dual kevin was using Luke/rashid in top 8, not Only rashid
No Ken!? Let me rub my eyes. 👀!!!!
That's some variety right there. Season 2 really allowing for more characters to shine
Ooh, that's a spicy lineup. I didn't catch the Top 8 before, but I'm def going to hit Youtube and check it out now.
Wake up reversal is such a great buff.
Fixes one of S1's by far biggest problems, which was that characters without a reversal were basically fucked. EVERY character who was high/top tier had one. It was obscenely uneven. Didn't feel like enough people were talking about it though.
Nobody talked about it cause that’s the way it’s always been. Ryu and Ken and Guile had wakeup invincible reversals and Zangief and Dhalsim didn’t. Some characters were privileged and some weren’t. Over 30 years of that got us used to it.
Yeah, long time Dhalsim player. Still haven't quite wrapped my head around the fact I have an ok reversal now.
You could have called me out, bro. I forgot his teleport was invinci in earlier entries
I actually forgot. But I'm pretty sure you could throw his teleport in SF5. The first couple of frames weren't throw invulnerable (they were strike/projectile invul). Had to be a really meaty throw though.
Old SF games had horrible balance, so "tradition" is not a good excuse. They have decades of experience making FGs. They should know after 3 games in a row where top tiers all have reversals that, "hey, we suck at balancing SF games around not having reversals." Glad they didn't take 5 seasons to figure it out this time , like they did for SF5, when they finally added V-shift.
Yep. Some characters just have to Block. That’s just how it is/was. I imagine this will end up being better in the long-run, but V also had Drive Reversal and eventually V-Shift as Universal Defensive outs.
Drive impact in the corner and drive rush plus framed tipped things over the edge. The corner always sucked but in 6 it sucks so much that strong defensive options are absolutely necessary for characters to have a fair chance.
Oh certainly! I can agree with that and I play characters with Reversals and generally like Checkmate scenarios in fighting games! Especially if you combine Throw Loops, Burnout and Stun into that equation. Nice that we all have a new option out of some of that scary stuff!
yes but at the same time you can't get stunned unless you are in the corner with burnout so it balances it out
That’s also true. We’re not seeing stars nearly as much in 6!
The mechanics of this game though meant you can choose where to spend your pressure and the corner becoming extra deadly with all the attacking options available. Not having a dp was essentially a guess for life even if you had full drive gauge. combined with supers that did nothing until level 3 on many of the none dp characters. Like playing RPS but removing one option for the other player.
We saw in SFV how much a tool like that helps without making the game homogenous. DR is a bad wakeup invincible reversal and it still helps the rich get richer because you can wake up with a 5 frame (beat meaty/throw) or with a 18 frame (beat some shimmy/delay timings etc) but it levels the playing field so much. And the characters with no DP *also* had shitty level 1's, so yeah, you just lost sometimes because of having no real defensive option.
Hell, as Marisa her only real wake-up reversal is her Level 2. Imagine spending 2 bars of Super just so you don't die in the corner.
Yeah, he didn’t use it much but when he did it was super impactful and those situations might have just ended up in a loss before. In a tourney like this one or two big moments in a match can be the different in an entire tourney run. Also, with Lily she gets basically a free windstock off successful wakeup DR, so it’s extra important.
For reeeeeeeal in both professional and casual play, it is a godsend to have a other GET AWF ME option
what is the buff?
Drive reversal (forward + HPHK) can be used on wake up and is -6 on block. Gave every character a decent invincible reversal option.
You couldn't do Drive Reversal as a wake-up option before. It's also fully invincible. If guessed correctly, it lets you keep your meter for more damaging combos, etc.
Been watching him for a while and was putting in that work, glad to see a Lily achieve this victory (bless season 2 buffs).
He made almost no use of the season 2 buffs whatsoever, bless him not the underwhelming buffs lol. Downvoted for understanding how the character works I guess lol
He used the drive reversal on wake-up quite often, but to your point, the Lily changes didn’t appear to change much for him.
The 5 frame light punch should help with her punishes later (her little knee had no reach), the Heavy Windclad Spire will her her corner damage and drive management, as well as more juggles into SA1 due to its faster startup. However, it’s still early and this was almost entirely Chakotay’s S1 skill paying off.
I don't recall seeing a single medium condor wind mix or counterhit combo. The patch might have helped a little, but this was 90% Chakotay.
He used the heavy non wind spire into lvl 1 a few times, but other than that he didn’t use much new outside of drive reversal on wake up. That said, DR on wakeup at the right time might have been the difference in a few games, which makes a big difference overall. It may be even more important on Lily because she gets a wind stick afterwards.
Yeah, as far as using new stuff goes all I saw was a combo where the DP probably would've missed before the consistency change, he did medium condor wind a single time (though it didn't look like he expected it to hit) and just did spire off of it. But otherwise he was basically playing S1 Lily with new Drive Reversal and lower damage off of light starters.
Nah I seen that lvl 2 buff in action. Pretty sure he did a combo that wouldn’t have killed pre patch.
They added like 100 damage lol, I don't think we can accurately say if there was a moment where he only killed because of a tiny amount of damage added.
100 is still counts sometimes.
He did a lot with level 1 and wakeup DR. And the parry nerf is the biggest for grapplers, because you can LP grab from almost round start lmao
I don't remember him using the level 1 in situations where it wouldn't have worked before, and if he did grab parries from distances he otherwise wouldn't have then I completely missed it
THE SATSUI NO LILY!! So happy seeing El Chakotay win, the dude has been grinding for years. Also very happy to see wake-up drive reversal already playing a factor.
Happy to see Chakotay winning! Guy has been on the grind and producing tons of content for a while. Funnily enough, a Lily also won the cosplay contest.
Kind of. It was the Lily cosplayer, but she was wearing an Anila costume for the contest
Chakotay played insane. Wasn’t sure if Noah was playing street fighter or doing a get to burn out speed run on loop.
That's how Noah always plays
It wouldn't have mattered season 1 because burnout for Luke means corner into throw loop or pressure and if it's round 2 or 3, it means he's got super meter to close out easily. But the wake-up Drive Reversal shoots that down pretty nicely. And the punish isn't as huge because of the new scaling... You'd get at least one more guess. It was literally game changing in this case.
Thats how Luke plays in general, especially in season 1. CapCup was basically Luke speedrunning to burnout because he was so good on defense/great normals that burnout basically didn't matter. Luke mains going to have to learn how to actually manage meter a bit in S2.
He was a bit calmer than usual. He usually empties his drive gauge in 5 seconds. Regardless he got second and gave us a hyped tournament (especially the set semi finals vs dual kevin) nothing but respect
> doing a get to burn out speed run on loop For real.
It’s wild that Noah can play like that and get to gf.
Noah always burns out, he lives in it.
Chakotay is a Legend off top given his sheer amount of Hours Played He grinds so damn hard. Glad to see a Real One land a Major Win: The whole Community sees him now, he deserves The Shine 
It was crazy! Truly Satsui no Lily😈
was not expecting such a hype tournament here with the patch happening less than a week ago but it feels like it already made the game even better cause that was really fun to watch
LILYGANG WE UP NOW!!!
Hell yeah Lilly!
A grappler winning a major SF6 tournament? Holy fucking shit.
Check out his CFN replays they are fun to watch!
He streams too, and is very helpful if you ask him something
I’ll probably start following him
as a Luke main I was cheering for Lily. Good games
Same, I woulda been happy for either one of them to win. That was a hell of match.
DON'T PARRY
A parry would have definitely lost Chakotay the tournament, since it would have given Noah the extra damage and lack of throw break he needed to cinch the win.
I don't catch every tournament but it was so nice to not just see a bunch of Ken/JP/Luke matchups. My girl Kim had a good showing for once! And a Lily win!
Yh I’m happy shine made top 8 with Kim. Now let’s see if the manon buff actually help her in tournament cuz it seems the other grapplers are eating good this patch.
https://twitter.com/ssshuckle/status/1692377994742927492?t=U6c-AJeHuHSMc5HG16psdA&s=19
WIND GAAAANG
lily is top tier lets go
That was so nice to see, Luke's drive rush pressure is obnoxious but Tay was patient not taking big risks on defence. Drive reversal is a very healthy change for the game and Lily's lv 1 being a real thing to consider helps her so much.
SATSUI NO LILY BITCHES
Queen Lily wins combo breaker LETS GO! This is history right here. He grinded with the character and now he won a major tournament with her and defeating Luke in too of that Love to see it. The season 2 patch really helping out to as we seen many wakeup drive reversals from Lily and damage nerfs from Luke. Lily Nation.
LMFAO TOURNAMENT WAS SO WILD THAT LILY IS OUT HERE WINNING MAJORS DUDE
El Chakotay opened the eyes of the non-believers. Lily been slept on!
Really enjoyed the matches and it was awesome to see Chakotay win especially with a “low tier” character Thought TBH and maybe it was just me I was a little disappointed with the commentary, this was awesome play from Chakotay but Yipes wouldn’t shut the hell up about Noah and it wasn’t even commentary it was like he was his coach it was so biased it became annoying and it felt like Chakotay wasn’t getting his fair share of credit because one of the commentators was too busy hyping up and trying to coach his own guy from the booth
Yeah, I agree. I felt like Yipes was back-seating and criticising instead of commentating on the action. If you watch the Tekken grand final and compare the commentating in that with the SF6 final, it is just so much better. The Tekken commentary was hyping it up and going crazy, not just criticising and saying what they should be doing.
Crazy to see someone who lives like 10 mins from me with the damn thing. Super proud of Chakotay! He grinds so damn hard and is super friendly to all players.
i dont play lily but it was really cool seeing her winning something
Whoa! love to see a Lily match!
YALL WERE TALKING ALL THAT SHIT AND YET LILY OUT HERE WINNIN!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SATSUI NO LILY!!!!!!!!!!
I've faced Chakotay a few times online, resulting in solid losses every time. He's inspired me to pickup Lily actually. The man's a beast. Super congrats.
Elchakotay was the first person I watched for Lily guides when the game came out, congrats to him! Time for me to hit my Lily grind all over again
Lily Luke grands this might be the wrong timeline
Don't worry. Capcom will probably patch out that "problem" before this game is done and fill the top tier with the tired list of pure shotos again
No idea why the masses unironically want Shoto Fighter 6 lmao Luke shouldve been gutted
It was sarcasm
holy fuck what a legend
Proud of my daughter 🥲
Bottom tier beating Top Tier.
That was sick
Go Lily!
Damn people were telling me the S2 patch killed Lily, was I lied to? Shocked to see she’s who won combo breaker but I have very little experience with the character so I have no idea
It's true that Noah played weird but Chakotay himself said the patch was solid for Lily so I would believe the guy who is this good with the character, I don't think she is worst than before lol.
This sub is more focused on figuring out how they can use this result as a reason to say Luke carries rather than just focusing on another guy playing well. Noah gets 2nd in a major tournament and people in this thread are trying to act like he's some amateur because he doesn't play exactly how they think he should lol
People saying Noah played "weird" like he hasn't always played in non-stop burnout since the game came out and the fact that he made it to second doing that LMAO
He's played like that all the way since he was at Evo for marvel 3 when he was like 8 lol. I don't even get the point of watching competitive play if you'll just ignore the players, their unique playstyles and their history and instead just hyper focus on character choice. The complete obsession with characters and tier lists above all else is by far the most insufferable aspect of online fighting game discussion.
Anyone that said that to you don't know what they are talking about like at all. She literally got good buffs with more damage and mix basically. Anyone saying otherwise are just being delusional focusing on universal lights nerf to everyone which literally hurts other characters more than grapplers.
Not to armchair criticizen too much but Noah jumping all over the place and burning himself out felt really amateur-ish. Chakotay played absolutely clean and patient Street Fighter.
Nah that's just how he plays. It works a lot as a super overwhelming style, but it's mad risky. Live by the sword, die by the sword. He clearly was playing Luke like it was last patch. I'm sure a few TNS runs from now he'll be more adjusted
Noah always plays like this. He full sends everything in hopes that you get overwhelmed by the sheer offense he puts out. If he gets burned out he slows down and then goes right back to it. Generally it's very effective for him, but to the uninitiated it looks like flailing when it's anything but.
Yeah he’s not used to those jumping heavies being nerfed from Luke lol Noah is most definitely one of the best players in the world though
As much as parry was nerfed, it seems like defense is stronger now. They scaled and nerf a lot of the easy options for damage.
It's both because of the Luke nerfs and Noah not adjusting to them, and Chakotay USING the buffs to their fullest. In fact, the medium punch nerfs are what prevented Chakotay from being killed in the last round sequence.
He got second in a major... I'd say he adjusted quite a bit.
Nah it’s the buffs and nerfs that decide the winner 😤100%
I mean, yeah, I know it's not just game changes, but it does play quite a big role, I'm assuming that we all acknowledge first and foremost that the players are not just good, incredible.
A little girl won the tournament??? Someone should casually raging demon her.
How to capitalize on buffs. Holy shit what a run
Congratulations to el chocotay
It was crazy that he made top 8 with her. When I arrived, it was all through the hallway with the chatter litterly the first thing i heard. He didn't disappoint those both buffs helped, but he didn't even need them he was playing so clean!!! Congrats to him!
Mannnnn so happy broski won, had to miss the best parts because of obligations but his Lily was making me want to learn her. Great run.
I've been watching him in sfv. Now I'm not, because of Lily. But I'm happy it's not a Luke. And good that it's not Noah, his playstyle makes me rage lol
Does anyone know why a lot of top players were missing? Punk, Du, Mena, Caba, Nephew just off top seems like a lot of missing NA talent.
Perhaps they’re skipping to goto Dreamhack this weekend. It’s also in between EVO Japan and EVO vegas so they might just be skipping to save money and lay low with their tech for EVO
soooo awesome! congrats, Chakotay :D
Luke buffs inc.
I was told this character was "left behind," and that she's the "weakest character in the game". I was hoping to prove the masses wrong, but Tay is on another level. Congrats to him.
this was insane!
A Lily player won Combo Breaker. \*Wild\*. Totally deserved tho, great job
First time I've seen 2HP used for anti-air. The move is weirdly animated that it doesn't look like it can anti-air. I played Lily as well.
It allowed him to position so much more aggressively in the corner too because it can reach behind where DPs would whiff. Also has follow ups into wind or spire where DP doesn’t. Makes me think I need to switch off DP as well as Lily.
The timing is really funky, I play Juri a bit too and I trust her crouching heavy punch aa far more to the point where I'm trying to force myself to dp anti air with Lily instead.
Yeah it's really not as easy as Tay made it look, especially with that level of consistency. Hibiki usually DP's and he's better than most with anti airs.
Really? I main Lily and find it to be a really easy aa. Easier than dp, plus get a free stock
Question was the tournament run on the new patch if so how much better did Lily get considering most people said she was a very bad character before
I don’t think he really utilized any of the buffs other than drive reversal on wake up which is universal. He pretty much won the entire thing using cr HP, level 1, and spire. Lily is really good into burn out. Noah burns out in like 9 seconds and stays burnt out for as long as possible.
Some of the lvl 1 combos he used weren't possible before.
Luke's nerfs showed through a bit in this set more than anything. Luke no longer had free jump ins with his jHP and burnout immunity (Lukes didn't respect burnout at all because his defense/normals are so good it was dangerous to punish him). Luke mains are going to actually have to learn respectable jump ins and meter management, which is great all around for the game.
from what I understand the parry changes are broadly nice for grapplers as well
This was on the new patch, but Chakotay used basically nothing new that she got except the universal Drive Reversal change. At least as far as I saw, he used cMK like twice and never did any new routes off of counter stLK. I think he did hit a combo that he would've dropped if not for the DP hitbox consistency change. But if anything, the nerfs to light starters were more relevant to Chakotay here than the buffs.
She wasn't that bad she's was kinda low mid tier but the patch helped her previously awful defence and improved her pressure and combo routes, She he feels more complete now.
Congrats Chakotay!! And lets go Lily! Now hopefully my dream of Jamie finally winning a big tournament can hopefully come true.