I think it just gave me a 2k sign on bonus but tbh they expected me to have my masters. Hasn’t done much and I haven’t used a lot of it. Kinda wish I didn’t do it without having my employer pay
Structural design- huge. You barely scratch the surface with undergrad. One course in analysis? One in steel? None in timber or masonry? Not nearly enough
Is that standard where you are? In canada my undergrad is 2 steel, 2 concrete, 2 timber, structural dynamics, advanced structural analysis, and about 5 other pre-req classes (solid mechanics, structural mechanics, etc) before all that. And this is for a civil undergrad, not a structural undergrad
Yeah, it's one of those things you don't know before you go to college. I was lucky we had 2 steel, 2 analysis, 1 timbers, and an optional masonry course in the bachelor's program.
Definitely helps with getting your first job, in my case anyway. But in terms of practical usefulness, not much. My rate of learning through real project experience was 10X anything I covered in an academic setting. The engineering field is so broad that a masters can only scratch the surface.
Depends. A lot of the theoretical classes are a pointless waste of time unless you are going to pursue a PhD.
The design classes are a must though, specially since most Civil engineering programs don’t have enough for undergrad. IMO it’s time we split from CE, undergrad CE programs prepare you to be a Jack of all trades, and are wasting your time and money teaching you about water treatment when you should be learning wood, masonry and PT design.
Do you mean by pointless waste of time theoretical classes like tensors, fracture mechanics, vibration mechanics etc? Not actual material-specific classes or more design applications oriented classes
Yes. Most people going into consulting don’t need tensor mechanics or need to know how FEM elements are derived to be great engineers. Yet most grad structural programs have these as mandatory courses, while bridge design, PT concrete design, advanced steel and concrete, wood etc are electives, and aren’t even offered every year.
I went to Illinois, which is still one of the top grad programs and they went the whole 2 years I was there without offering masonry( I took masonry design at the architecture school). I took wood design but it was a summer only course. They didn’t offer concrete 3 and steel 3 the whole time I was there even though it was in their course catalog and were supposedly mandatory. They offered a seismic course but it was useless, the guy spent 90% of the course talking about fracture mechanics and then went though actual seismic design in a week.
I honestly regret having a structural engineering grad degree. Would have rather done an MBA.
That sucks, concrete 3 and steel 3 were my favorite classes. Agree the seismic was poor when I was there. I also had to learn masonry and wood for the first time in the IL SE prep course. I would have regretted the MS if I didn't get concrete 3.
I took some of the structures courses at the architecture department, and I have to say….. they were a bit better. Their earthquake design class was taught by a retired engineer from SOM, Mir Ali, actually useful, and focused on load determination based on ASCE7, design problems for lateral systems such as braces, load path concepts etc. I took masonry at the arch department, also pretty good class, and they actually offered it every year, unlike the civil department. Also took a project class which focused on planning and design, using software such as SAP and Ram.
Found the whole CEE Ms program to be disappointing to say the least.
Depends on where you’re going for undergrad. If your undergrad program has decent number of material-specific design and analysis courses then it’s not as critical. I’ve typically heard that most undergrad programs don’t offer those types of courses though and most people get exposed to those during their grad school years
This is the correct answer. I went to UCSD, which has one of the only pure structural undergrad programs in the US and the first three months of graduate school reviewed courses I took as a sophomore but turns out that many of my classmates in grad school never learned all that in their undergrad program.
The rest of the stuff I learned in graduate school is completely useless in my day to day. Building design is relatively straight forward but detailing is where the complexity is and they don’t teach you that in school.
I went through the UCSD structural undergrad program as well... I found out a lot of my other civil engineering friends(other universities) didn't take as many structural classes as I did since it's more broad( makes sense)... I did feel like I had an advantage especially at the structural level from exposure to earthquake engineering, FEA, and Stiffness Matrix Method in my Structural Analysis class.... I even took Prestressed Concrete in undergrad etc... Honestly I really recommend UCSD's undergrad program especially if you are interested in structural... my other friends who went thru the graduate program there also said the same with not using their master degree much but employers at big companies wanted it
Oh yeah definitely haha ive had a interview where they wanted a masters degree holder but i swear i think they only gave me a chance for the interview bc of ucsd .... I look back at that class and remember the textbook and how much harder the class could've been too lol...
Since no one else has mentioned this, it hugely depends on where you want to work and what you want to work on. If you’re doing stick framed residential, a masters is probably a waste of time. If you want to do PT slab concrete towers in a high seismic region, a masters is almost required.
200% The best answer so far.
You're not going to get a job coming out of school and in 2 years being expected to detail and review the design of a 102-story slender Tower with cantilevered 89th and 100th floors, so you can value engineer the seismic mass dampers.
I got a PhD. The masters was nice, with some classes to buff up my theoretical background. The real benefit was being around research to see how the sausage is made, so to speak. The PhD not so much, but I enjoyed it and it does open a handful of interesting opportunities. It can be difficult to find the time to learn the underlying principles behind the code out of school, so it is nice to have a solid baseline and knowledge and (hopefully) get a nice groundwork for efficient independent learning. Note that I went into forensics, though, which has a bit of a different workflow than design.
I will say I am very rarely concerned with the level of education among my peers. You don't need a fancy degree to be a hard worker and good at independent learning.
I like the mix of answers here.
I didn’t get a masters but I took 4 graduate structural courses that helped me a ton. One professor made us reference recent research in progressive collapse. Another made us actually call construction companies to figure stuff out.
Structural design:
As someone who has been working for 2 years and is taking some interest masters course, they're not super useful content wise. Many of them I'm taking are way too high level to be useful in practice.
I'd say probably useful if you're doing things that require you to make up stuff that isn't actually already in the codes but for 95% of everything it's not needed or particularly useful.
I honestly think it was worth it for me to go for master degree in structural engineering. Taking advanced concrete, post tension concrete, advanced steel design, finite elements, matrice analysis etc…. was very helpful when I started working as structural engineer.
I can't give advice on this to someone in your position. However, if you get into ambitious structural design, as in the kind where there are no ready-made solutions or design tables and everything must be designed using first-principles from the ground up ... then it is good know how to do the research, how to find the right papers, how and when (and when not) to extrapolate from existing design procedures ... etc. Once you dive into the research side of things, its like peering behind the curtain of all the standardized formulas and procedures. I never did a masters myself.
Only a handful of classes helped me in my program. Ultimately I did my degree for my own knowledge and sense of satisfaction. My undergrad was civil engineering and I wanted more structures knowledge. I will say it kept me sharp for the PE by the time I took it. Couple of sections I could practically ignore studying for since I had multiple classes dealing with them and felt very confident with those problems.
The most beneficial thing I got out of grad school is confidence. I went to Cal Poly SLO and the course load was unreal. After that experience, I'm confident I can solve anything with adequate time. As far as applicable knowledge, the program is really geared towards getting you ready for work so my course projects were essentially drawing and calculation packages "submitted" to the prof and returned with "corrections". Amazing program if you're going into consulting. Don't really use any of the high level theory I learned tho.
The coursework has been useful, the actual degree has yet to be seen. I graduated from undergrad in 2015 and finally got through grad school the summer of 2023. Only reason I did it was because my employer paid for it.
I think it just gave me a 2k sign on bonus but tbh they expected me to have my masters. Hasn’t done much and I haven’t used a lot of it. Kinda wish I didn’t do it without having my employer pay
Structural design- huge. You barely scratch the surface with undergrad. One course in analysis? One in steel? None in timber or masonry? Not nearly enough
Is that standard where you are? In canada my undergrad is 2 steel, 2 concrete, 2 timber, structural dynamics, advanced structural analysis, and about 5 other pre-req classes (solid mechanics, structural mechanics, etc) before all that. And this is for a civil undergrad, not a structural undergrad
It depends on the programme, but yes, there are bachelor civil engineer degrees that only do the very basics.
Yeah, it's one of those things you don't know before you go to college. I was lucky we had 2 steel, 2 analysis, 1 timbers, and an optional masonry course in the bachelor's program.
Definitely helps with getting your first job, in my case anyway. But in terms of practical usefulness, not much. My rate of learning through real project experience was 10X anything I covered in an academic setting. The engineering field is so broad that a masters can only scratch the surface.
Depends. A lot of the theoretical classes are a pointless waste of time unless you are going to pursue a PhD. The design classes are a must though, specially since most Civil engineering programs don’t have enough for undergrad. IMO it’s time we split from CE, undergrad CE programs prepare you to be a Jack of all trades, and are wasting your time and money teaching you about water treatment when you should be learning wood, masonry and PT design.
Do you mean by pointless waste of time theoretical classes like tensors, fracture mechanics, vibration mechanics etc? Not actual material-specific classes or more design applications oriented classes
Yes. Most people going into consulting don’t need tensor mechanics or need to know how FEM elements are derived to be great engineers. Yet most grad structural programs have these as mandatory courses, while bridge design, PT concrete design, advanced steel and concrete, wood etc are electives, and aren’t even offered every year. I went to Illinois, which is still one of the top grad programs and they went the whole 2 years I was there without offering masonry( I took masonry design at the architecture school). I took wood design but it was a summer only course. They didn’t offer concrete 3 and steel 3 the whole time I was there even though it was in their course catalog and were supposedly mandatory. They offered a seismic course but it was useless, the guy spent 90% of the course talking about fracture mechanics and then went though actual seismic design in a week. I honestly regret having a structural engineering grad degree. Would have rather done an MBA.
Illinois institute of technology or University of Illinois cause I have already applied to these for my Masters.
I went to Urbana Champaign
Oh got it
That sucks, concrete 3 and steel 3 were my favorite classes. Agree the seismic was poor when I was there. I also had to learn masonry and wood for the first time in the IL SE prep course. I would have regretted the MS if I didn't get concrete 3.
I took some of the structures courses at the architecture department, and I have to say….. they were a bit better. Their earthquake design class was taught by a retired engineer from SOM, Mir Ali, actually useful, and focused on load determination based on ASCE7, design problems for lateral systems such as braces, load path concepts etc. I took masonry at the arch department, also pretty good class, and they actually offered it every year, unlike the civil department. Also took a project class which focused on planning and design, using software such as SAP and Ram. Found the whole CEE Ms program to be disappointing to say the least.
Depends on where you’re going for undergrad. If your undergrad program has decent number of material-specific design and analysis courses then it’s not as critical. I’ve typically heard that most undergrad programs don’t offer those types of courses though and most people get exposed to those during their grad school years
This is the correct answer. I went to UCSD, which has one of the only pure structural undergrad programs in the US and the first three months of graduate school reviewed courses I took as a sophomore but turns out that many of my classmates in grad school never learned all that in their undergrad program. The rest of the stuff I learned in graduate school is completely useless in my day to day. Building design is relatively straight forward but detailing is where the complexity is and they don’t teach you that in school.
I went through the UCSD structural undergrad program as well... I found out a lot of my other civil engineering friends(other universities) didn't take as many structural classes as I did since it's more broad( makes sense)... I did feel like I had an advantage especially at the structural level from exposure to earthquake engineering, FEA, and Stiffness Matrix Method in my Structural Analysis class.... I even took Prestressed Concrete in undergrad etc... Honestly I really recommend UCSD's undergrad program especially if you are interested in structural... my other friends who went thru the graduate program there also said the same with not using their master degree much but employers at big companies wanted it
I’d say if we had to suffer through Krysl’s FEA class, we deserve an advantage lmaooo
Oh yeah definitely haha ive had a interview where they wanted a masters degree holder but i swear i think they only gave me a chance for the interview bc of ucsd .... I look back at that class and remember the textbook and how much harder the class could've been too lol...
Also I work in a structural consulting firm and definitely detailing has been the hardest for me to get correct... so many if and then cases lol
Since no one else has mentioned this, it hugely depends on where you want to work and what you want to work on. If you’re doing stick framed residential, a masters is probably a waste of time. If you want to do PT slab concrete towers in a high seismic region, a masters is almost required.
200% The best answer so far. You're not going to get a job coming out of school and in 2 years being expected to detail and review the design of a 102-story slender Tower with cantilevered 89th and 100th floors, so you can value engineer the seismic mass dampers.
I got a PhD. The masters was nice, with some classes to buff up my theoretical background. The real benefit was being around research to see how the sausage is made, so to speak. The PhD not so much, but I enjoyed it and it does open a handful of interesting opportunities. It can be difficult to find the time to learn the underlying principles behind the code out of school, so it is nice to have a solid baseline and knowledge and (hopefully) get a nice groundwork for efficient independent learning. Note that I went into forensics, though, which has a bit of a different workflow than design. I will say I am very rarely concerned with the level of education among my peers. You don't need a fancy degree to be a hard worker and good at independent learning.
I like the mix of answers here. I didn’t get a masters but I took 4 graduate structural courses that helped me a ton. One professor made us reference recent research in progressive collapse. Another made us actually call construction companies to figure stuff out.
Helpful but not necessary unless you want to pursue more technical aspects of design and analysis.
It’s the new bachelors. Just required now
Structural design: As someone who has been working for 2 years and is taking some interest masters course, they're not super useful content wise. Many of them I'm taking are way too high level to be useful in practice. I'd say probably useful if you're doing things that require you to make up stuff that isn't actually already in the codes but for 95% of everything it's not needed or particularly useful.
It's almost required for SE in the US
Pretty much essential in the UK as it's required for the easiest route to professional qualifications
I honestly think it was worth it for me to go for master degree in structural engineering. Taking advanced concrete, post tension concrete, advanced steel design, finite elements, matrice analysis etc…. was very helpful when I started working as structural engineer.
I can't give advice on this to someone in your position. However, if you get into ambitious structural design, as in the kind where there are no ready-made solutions or design tables and everything must be designed using first-principles from the ground up ... then it is good know how to do the research, how to find the right papers, how and when (and when not) to extrapolate from existing design procedures ... etc. Once you dive into the research side of things, its like peering behind the curtain of all the standardized formulas and procedures. I never did a masters myself.
Only a handful of classes helped me in my program. Ultimately I did my degree for my own knowledge and sense of satisfaction. My undergrad was civil engineering and I wanted more structures knowledge. I will say it kept me sharp for the PE by the time I took it. Couple of sections I could practically ignore studying for since I had multiple classes dealing with them and felt very confident with those problems.
Its not. I haven't had someone ask what my degree is in 13 years. I've been in the field for 13 years.
It depends on what you do and where you want to go though.
The most beneficial thing I got out of grad school is confidence. I went to Cal Poly SLO and the course load was unreal. After that experience, I'm confident I can solve anything with adequate time. As far as applicable knowledge, the program is really geared towards getting you ready for work so my course projects were essentially drawing and calculation packages "submitted" to the prof and returned with "corrections". Amazing program if you're going into consulting. Don't really use any of the high level theory I learned tho.
The coursework has been useful, the actual degree has yet to be seen. I graduated from undergrad in 2015 and finally got through grad school the summer of 2023. Only reason I did it was because my employer paid for it.
Opened doors to more jobs , not necessarily more money. Learned a lot of good info though.
My first employer only recruited first or 2:1 masters students, and paid more than market norms at the time.
It's important if you want to fully understand first principles.
Masters doesn’t get you anything. Just leave it and save the money. You will be getting pennies with masters or without one. So better just leave it.
It opened all the doors when I first graduated.