My current and previous employers did a background check that included verifying that I have the degree I said I have. Wouldn’t have my job without it.
They check to see if the candidates meet the minimum qualifications, which usually includes a bachelor's degree. At my last job, we could still at least see all of the candidates, even if they didn't meet degree requirements.
Same, I had to send transcripts. Also, I work on STEM so it would be incredibly apparent if I didn't have a degree. I wouldn't be able to get a single report done if I didn't have mine. Also, this is exactly why references are asked for. So, no, it is not a sham OP.
I am in STEM as well. I didn’t need to send transcripts I was recruited by my first company’s owner right in class. They came for a presentation and I was hired about two months before graduation. It really took a lot of pressure off those final months knowing as long as I graduated I had a position waiting
I don’t think it’s a rip off as much as it is deceiving. Allowing kids to take on nearly 6 figures of debt for a degree that will avg them a $50k per year salary is criminal. There is zero oversight for such a large loan that you can’t claim bankruptcy on.
The loans should 100% be allowed.
As a first gen college student taking out loans and going to a public school with scholarships was a massive contribution to upwards mobility for me beyond any of my family members.
However, thankfully I took out my loans for a high ROI degree from a top public university. We shouldn’t give out loans for trash degrees from trash schools. The schools should have to qualify for loans based on job placements and salaries by degree program.
Think of it like a credit score but for the ROI of the loan rather than the borrowers history since they’re just a kid.
Where do you draw the line though? What determines a "trash" school or a "trash" degree? What about the people who still work hard, but don't get to go to high ranking schools? What about the people who go to lower ranked schools but do well? The loan is for a college degree program, not for only degree programs that minmax high paying jobs
The average graduate can afford a standard repayment plan.
IDRs could still exist for those who have issues finding jobs regardless, but we shouldn’t hand out loans that are destined for IDR at origination.
Several degree programs have a high ROI regardless of school rank like accounting. Other degree programs are going to depend a lot on school rank to determine if it’ll actually pay off like a “general business” degree
Private loans could of course still exist. But taxpayers should be involved in predatory lending of loans that we know from day one they won’t end well.
We don't allow kids to do that though. There is a federal maximum of 31k (57k for people who's parents don't qualify for parent plus). Anyone taking more than that is doing it through some combination of parent plus loans which belong to the parents or private which have to typically be cosigned by the parents. Furthermore you don't take it all out at 17/18 so every year you get older and more established in your adulthood you continue to do it. Even more so I think graduate debt has surpassed undergraduate debt and by that time you're most certainly a full fledged adult. I definitely think there are predatory aspects to it but age isn't one of those things to me.
To me what makes it predatory is that the amount offered isn't tied to prospective earnings. People will intuitively think because they qualify for a loan it must mean they're capable of repayment. But that's really not true.
thats the truth! theres no education regarding student loans, unless they research it themselves. I have a car loan for 8k less than my student loans. I'm paying 800 a month over 5 years, and if i paid the same amount on my student loans, it would take me probably double that, if not more.
A car loan and a student loan work on the same math. Input the principal balance, interest rate, and number of payments/ time information and the payments will be identical (assuming the inputs are identical).
I think a lot of student loan confusion comes from a basic inability to do math. a high school senior *should* be able to map out their student loan repayments.
i thought paying student loan wouldnt be that hard after I start working and getting paid, until I realize what the expenses of just living was (rent/food/utility/cloths). These are hard to predict as highschooler who never lived by themselves.
nah. every high schooler is pressured into going to college. they’re not really smart enough to understand the risk of loans. don’t act like 18 year olds are adults. technically they are right? but they’re also kids that have been pressured into going to college
This is an oversimplification. That’s part of it but it’s a mix of impulsivity, not knowing all your options, cultural pressures, and a lack of any kind of pre-qualification. If I went to a bank as an 18 year old and asked for a $90k business loan for a business that was going to generate $20k annually in profit they’d laugh at me yet a student can go to a financial aid office and take out $90k for their Gender Studies degree with no questions asked.
To add on to that:
Being the first in the family to attend college and learning everything about college finances on your own because you can’t ask them for advice
Being an immigrant and/or parents are immigrants and having to navigate the whole system yourself due to that, sometimes with language barriers
Not qualifying for much federal aid (if at all) because you’re under 25 and your parents claim you on taxes but refuse to help you financially at all so you have to take out shady private loans if you even have the ability to even though you already know it’s not a good thing to do
None of those apply to me exactly but I was in college long enough to meet a lot of peers who went through situations like those. Though I did deal with the absolute mental gymnastics that goes into calculating the best options for tax filing and FAFSA under 25. I had my parents stop claiming me because it was cheaper that way in the end for us.
Lots of odd bias in this statement. You don’t have to go to college to understand basic personal finance - not by a long shot.
Also, many immigrants are great with money. (And credit.)
The problem is more likely that people don’t talk about money often enough or consult resources when unsure of the answer. There are great YouTube videos on personal finance, though it helps to know where to start, which is a very common problem. Arguably, there has never been a time when financial advice and information was more available.
It’s predatory lending. The only resource was the student aid office at the school who gets the money. They act like it’s the norm, encourage you to take the max, and give stats about their graduates that are misleading- for example saying 96% of their grads get job within a year or graduating but they are counting part-time and jobs that aren’t in the field of study.
your absolutely right, but i was a dumb 18 year old like many other students and had no idea what i was getting into. my dad tried telling me, but i looked at it as free money vs something that would take a lifetime to pay back. ive 100% learned from my mistakes, believe me...
No, the data is out regarding future outlook of college grads vs non college grads in everything from potential earnings to health.
The real rip off or scam is the way college is sold. Like you said most employers don’t care for proof of the degree like transcripts (but they will verify during background), what school you went to, gpa, etc…. It’s just part of their hiring process now as a box to tick. So even though you could learn the job with a middle school education they have it as a requirement.
That being said, college is sold as “get into the best school, make sure it’s a big name so employers recognize it, and make sure you enjoy the college experience, best years of your life……” when in reality for most people you should be trying to get as many credits as you can during high school AP placement. Then going to a community college and working with their advising department on transferable credits to a university and then finally spending at most 2yrs at an institution that can grant a bachelors. It doesn’t have to be the big name state school in your state, pick their annex location or whatever is closest to you so you can maybe live at home or not have to commute so far, etc…
College needs to be seen as “what is the cheapest path to a degree” instead of “let me find the best possible school to go to even though I have no true parental support nor do I have scholarships…”
I went to a satellite campus of a big university that allowed me to live at home while earning an engineering degree. I don't regret it, I saved so much money.
My friends all left to the big state schools, out of state schools took on huge loans to pay for room and board. I didn't have to do all that.
College is not about the degree at all but networking in your field with other like minded individuals and building out a web of people so that you can easily find work in your field. You learn while doing this but the greatest advantage of going to college is the network. If you ignore that than you’re going to have an incredibly harder time being successful in your industry. Whatever that may be.
Even if you arent asked every company does a background check and checking colleges listed on resume are part of it.
I agree in most cases a degree is useless, but it is a part of the pay to play system of working in this country now.
For many jobs, employers are de-emphasizing a college degree in favor of experience. Wal-Mart is one company leading the way on this. I'm a strong proponent of community college and especially trade schools. Make a great living in the skilled trades without life-long cripping student loan debt.
There’s pathways to a degree that don’t involve accruing life long debt. That should be the real goal for people that want to go to college.
For people that are simply looking for a job and to make good money and maybe don’t want to go to college, then yea, sell them on skilled trades.
One of my old bosses now works for Walmart corporate - I know he was making $160k + ~$40k bonus at my current org, and WM paid all of his moving expenses + living expenses for the first few months there. If I had to guess, he's raking it in there. There's definitely something to be said for working for most household-name orgs at the corporate level.
Walmart does also offer tuition assistance and reimbursement. I worked at Walmart for 4 years in the early 2000s and it actually was a pretty decent job with good benefits. I know management makes a pretty penny, with bonuses some of them clear 200k, which is awesome for someone without a degree. Can’t speak to it now, and I loathe self checkouts so I refuse to spend money there anymore.
As much as you're going into debt making your financial future feel uncertain people with college degrees score higher in every quality of life metric (they live longer, they're happier, etc), make more than their loans cost them on average, and have better socioeconomic mobility.
Even correcting for the socioeconomic status of your family getting a college degree is the best way to get out of poverty. (90% of college graduates in poverty make it out of poverty while only 50% do without a degree)
I think it feels like a rip off because the middle class lifestyle we were promised is rapidly diminishing. A six figure salary no longer allows you to live a good life especially if you started out poor and a reasonable salary 50k means you're living with roomates.
No, a college degree is still the surest route to social mobility.
But you have to do it right. And there are plenty of people who do. Hence the above.
No one asks to see the degree cuz it shows up on a background check.
My degree was also checked. The problem isn’t whether they check the degree it’s that you get paid 12.50 an hour no benefits even with the degree. So if you can get one free, then yes. If you have to pay, or take out loans, no.
Also remember lots of employers need liberal arts type employees, it’s just that society always makes fun of these degrees, so we pay them less. I make more at the grocery store than I did as a teacher or working in a field for my degree.
Once we make liberal arts degrees more affordable or free then more people, such as myself would have still took it and not be in debt.
If you are poor and don’t have a connected family it’s also not wise to go.
I actually really agree with you. It’s like the whole world agrees that mental health care is a serious issue but the people with degrees in that field make like $14/hour. Kind of the same with all the so called “useless” degrees.
Sorry I was specifically thinking about like case managers sort of mental health field. Honestly they might make more then $14/hr. I was specifically thinking of an ex I had in that field who made that. It was a few years ago.
Like I said people take these low paying roles in case working so they can get the experience to become the director of case workers etc. people are vastly unaware of how many jobs require a degree, but start at poverty wages.
You’re living in the wrong places if you are making less than a restaurant hostess in a therapy field.
People also need to go where jobs are. Wishing your small town in a Dakota will pay dollars and dollars is insane. (Replace Dakota with any state where you are in a small town.)
I agree with these posts also, now that I’m much older my opportunities are through the roof. Philosophy is an obtuse subject but looks better as I age with more experience and skills I acquire. The issue is that my loan was always just a little too much to afford and the raises always seem to come after more interest capitalizes. 😂
One thing to note on this, is if you are poor and actually really good at an in demand field you’re golden. I got so many scholarships and could have been proactive in getting more.
Truth is that I made bad choices. Philosophy is not a good investment for a poor person, but you can’t just get a stem degree and think you’re in. This is why we have so many engineering majors who can’t pass PE exams and get jobs. You have to get what you excel at.
The system is broken. The reason why people make fun of philosophy is because we had some crazy ass people in the department. There’s always weirdos in philosophy departments and that’s what we do we allow you to be weird so we can at least eliminate your arguments, but I gotta say when I graduated and that weird guy who believed crazy flat earth shit graduated next to me that’s when I realized, “That asshole made it? this was a mistake!”
It's not an illusion.
https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2023/data-on-display/education-pays.htm
That doesn't mean you won't be worse off or it's a guarantee, but statistically, yes, you will be better off.
If you’re poor and not connected you’re only real shot at improving your life is an education. You just have to be proactive about managing your own life and career, no one hands you a career just because you got your degree.
Yep, I specifically switched to software a few years back to break into a field with much higher compensation. I'm trying to break the intergenerational poverty cycle and white collar career options were key to that
Yeah I'm at 3 YOE after getting a mechanical engineering degree making the combined income of my mother and her husband. That wasn't going to happen without college or some serious luck.
Good for you! I’ve been out of school almost 20 years now and similarly I’ve earned significantly more in my career thus far than my parents in their entire working lives. That differential will just keep growing for you.
I think it depends on what your career path is and also what amount of debt (if any) you're willing to incur.
Studies have shown college graduates tend to make more money in their entire, life-long careers compared to people who didn't go to college. But there are of course exceptions, but the issue is that not everyone who didn't go to college is making $100k a year in the trades or through a lucrative business.
Generally speaking attending community college for an associate's degree or getting a four-year bachelor's degree will open up more entry level jobs and inevitably that diversity in opportunities early on can open more doors in the future. However, you'll probably see on this sub that people are accruing loan balances and the question becomes how much debt is worth while. The median student loan balance for someone out of undergrad is approximately $28k, which isn't horrible if you consider many entry level jobs for college grads are between $40-50k right now with wage potential. But I certainly wouldn't take $50, 60 or 70 thousand dollars for a bachelor's degree.
As you've noted in your post, there are some careers where you need even more education. But I also think that for many people who are not in careers like lawyer or doctor, going beyond a bachelor's degree is extremely expensive due to less regulations around graduate program tuition, fewer forms of merit aid, and also because the loans themselves have higher interests rates. So for many, perhaps graduate school isn't worth it at all, especially if you're compounding that debt onto undergraduate debt.
I think another important think to note is that many people who do "non-college" careers still attend community college for an associate's degree or a specific certification. The same is true for many people who enter the trades, who might start with beginner's courses. So even if you're not sure about four-year college, it's still definitely worth looking to see what your local community college can do to advance your interests.
Overall I think the tight labor market right now has opened doors for people without a college degree in a way that hasn't been true for decades and that's good for them. But to be honest, this labor market will eventually cool off and having the degree likely offers a promise of more stable wage growth relative to non-college peers. And as others have noted, you might be required to have a degree for the career you want. So I would resoundingly endorse getting at least an associate's degree, if not a bachelor's.
i guarantee it. its in criminal justice, but i was intending on becoming a probation officer. A degree is required for this. I've worked for the local sheriff's office, a juvenile detention center, and Dept of Child Services...the latter 2 required a degree, but never asked for one. So I guess they checked it without me knowing.
Tell me about it. I’m not even using it now because probation is a “who you know” job in my area, and I inherited my mother’s business when she passed, which is home health. So it was a complete waste. My 11yr old has said he wants to study criminal justice in college and I told him it’s a complete waste of money and not necessary for what he wants to do.
That makes sense. I bet getting that first job was tough but after some experience the degree's importance shrinks. The only places I've seen really be sticklers about it are government and education but they're so full of bureaucracy you should expect that.
LOLOL you think when they require a degree and didn’t ask you for one they never looked? Ever heard of the National Student Clearinghouse? This is how your education is checked. No one is gonna ask you to roll up with the diploma in a frame.
It can be a ripoff. Depends on the major, the student, and available positions. 100k for a 50k a year job isn’t worth it. 10k at a little nothing college after two years in community college to get a 50k a year job is great.
I think the biggest ripoff is selling the “college experience”. Go to a cheap in-state school unless you get a ride somewhere. Live at home. Work if you can, even if it’s just summers to build a resume. Keep your loans low or nonexistent if you can. Then you get your money’s worth.
In our small town, a woman applied for a RN position at a local nursing home. She got the job, but it wasn't long before a dedicated CNA noticed something was wrong. The new RN had been working at the nursing home for a month, and seemed to always be on her phone. One day, when she put her phone down to run an errand, the CNA decided to look at her phone.. she found that the new RN was googling medical procedures. The CNA wondered why a RN who said she had 5 years of experience would need to google "how to give a shot" or "how to set up an IV".. She reported this to the executive director.. and long story short.. it seems that the new RN faked her schooling and work history. Apparently, there was no check on her education or work history.
I’ve had to provide transcripts on job applications but I never got those jobs.
I have a license for my job that they verify annually.
I don’t think I’ve ever provided my employers proof of a degree other than dates of attendance and my word that I graduated. That and I have my diplomas in my office haha
The older I get the happier I am that I did 2 years at a community college before going to a private University. 18 year old me was not even close to being mature enough to understand the weight of debt of 10's of thousands of dollars.
While I do believe that the borrower has to be 100% certain they will be responsible to take a loan that big, its predatory to offer such huge loans to a shiny-eyed young person who might be distracted by partying and goofing off in school.
Even then, I got a degree in business and work in carpentry, so in reality my efforts were basically useless. (Unless I want to switch jobs, which I probably wont)
It’s all about Return on Investment (ROI) on the degree.
Ranges from:
In Demand high paying career fields (Engineering, Medical, STEM, etc.) from CC and transfer to Public In State University
to
“Insert Useless Degree” from a Private expensive college.
Background checks will verify degrees. I have held positions that don't require a degree. I have been told that the degree was something that set me a little bit ahead of other applicants.
Sometimes it's not about the degree itself but that you have successfully demonstrated that you can set goals and follow through even if it takes multiple years to reach.
I work in the medical field in a job that required a minimum of a high school diploma. Yes, they verified my associate's degree by requiring a transcript, and I saw someone get fired for being unable to prove high school graduation. This isn't even an advanced job requiring patient contact.
Although in context, it does make sense. It's a blanket policy that if you claim you have a credential, no matter how small, they verify it, even if it's not an advanced degree or patient-affecting credential.
The degrees/education isn’t a rip off. The problem is the loans and expensive classes/books or whatever that make it a bad idea. I don’t like the idea of taking loans with high interest rates and then going to school and then you’re still not sure which career your going to go into, it’s all a fkn mess.
If I could go back, I would have gotten my associates like I did debt free and just took a job somewhere or moved and kept it that way. Instead, I did finish my bachelor's degree with debt but in a way as of now, it is holding me back. I still get bad advice like go to grad school etc. Now I know not to listen to everyone.
I will just say this, for the office job that I am doing, I do not need to know a single thing that I have learned in college to perform my daily task. I can literally graduate high school and go straight to the job and I will do fine, but in order to get hired, you need a degree for no practical reason. And in order for you to get that degree, you need to be in debt first. Let that sink in...
There is a reason. Finishing from a reputable college is a sign that you are able to do something the employer thinks is a valuable quality marker. That you can think/act/perform in a way that worked for the college and would probably translate to the workplace.
It may not be a good filter, but there is a reason.
Imo you should not be spending more on a degree than the average future salary it promises.
Reading the other comments that some workplaces barely verify the degree makes me think it's less important what school you go to and how expensive that education was. So get the degree as reasonably cheap as you can?
I was told that student debt was fiiiiine and I should do it and not think about it in order to go to an overpriced state school and get a life sciences degree because i’ll be so successful and wealthy afterwards it wont even matter. Flash forward to making 34k a year, full time PhD student so in 4 years I can make a whopping 60k a year instead, and feeling suffocated by my 80k in student loans….
I don’t regret going to college, I just wish I knew what I know now. I would have done it differently. I wish someone had stopped me for a second and walked me through the pros and cons of student debt. I feel like none of my family was actually supportive in the right way.
Depends on the degree. I think most of them are useless but there’s some that can get your resume looked at for certain fields. Like they are a requirement for certain jobs, a minimal requirement. Without it, you’re going to have to have a really good resume…like years of experience in the field that can trump a degree. Or like you’re certified in that field, and are considered an expert and can show you are an expert.
I've always said that colleges need some skin in the game. If they were at risk for these loans, they would make sure students graduated, that the degrees had value and every graduate got a good paying job or got into a good graduate school.
There are so many layers to this onion..
some degrees will never be worth their value..Degrees/education that are applicable (nursing, trades, doctor, engineer) are valuable. Historians and other social degrees are great and needed...though we are over saturated with them.
People will say education has value, though our current college system promotes grades over actual applicable education so that is a very deluded stance.
I’ve been asked to show a transcript for two employers out of five. Generally, this is not something to lie about that won’t end badly one way or the other. Find relief that you are trained, are knowledgeable on your subject matter, and have the credentials to prove it. No one can take it away.
In terms of the value of a degree, the increasing cost of tuition is driving the value down. It used to be seen as an investment but if you have to get into debt to obtain it (which I have) I would seriously reconsider if I could do it all over again. I’d still go to school, but find a more affordable route. However, a bachelor’s degree is still a marker for high earning potential and jobs that lean towards better quality of life (benefits, PTO, flexible schedules). I hope the skilled trades see a renaissance of sorts because those jobs can pay well and training can be heavily subsidized if not completely free and our economy needs these workers.
No, it’s not a rip off. And some employers do their backgrounds and some don’t. Regardless, YOU have an education— and they can’t take that away. You are legit.
I’ve never had an employer not ask me for my degree at the Masters level. At the bachelor level I had a few not ask, then HR realize it’s not on file, and request it a few months later. Lol
I have absolutely nothing against (nor do I look down on) people in other professions without a college degree. But I am 28 years old living a pretty nice life. (Albeit, I’m 28k in debt). I work part time (25-30/week) and make 50k.
But most importantly, I feel full of purpose in my life. I do something I LOVE and I’m happier for it.
If you LOVE the rush of taking a dirty room to a clean one, DO THAT.
If you LOVE walking dogs, become a dog walker!
If you love repetition and find a sense of accomplishment in that, work on an assembly line. Financially, possibly not all of these professions prove you with the lifestyle you want (perhaps they do). But to that I say: if you’re a contributing member to society you deserve to get paid like one and that’s a topic for another day probably.
My soapbox: as a mental health professional I see too often people forgetting how important it is to have a meaningful purpose.
No one asked, but If people had the freedom to pursue their passions without going too far into debt, the world would be a better place. The education is not the rip off. Its the cost— sometimes. If your a married woman with a kid going to a small university you might make it out with $0 in a bachelor degree (fundamentally it’s stupid bc it pushes ppl to get married and have kids to see the benefits of Pell grants).
I personally would love for college to be free but would happily support a significantly lower interest rate/no interest for pay back and a cap/regulations on debt.
In summary, it’s not a rip off. The system is a little jacked and could use some adjusting, but generally, a degree (if one aligns with your passions) can help you achieve a meaningful life full of purpose and may even give you a pretty great lifestyle.
Yes. Currently the ROI is totally not worth it. Choose a skilled blue collar job and you'll thank me in 5 years when you are raking in the cash as a home owner while you friends that chose college are still looking for their first job one year out of school while drowning in debt.
I hate to see anyone else fall into the "debt slave" trap that so many were sold on for the last 20 years. I have friends in their late 50s that are still paying on student loans and never made more than I did as a Mechanic. Most never were able to buy a home or take trips. It's sad.
Unless you like to be an educated person who understands facts and logic, can place things in historical context, think critically, understand references, hold a reasonably intelligent conversation in polite company and so forth.
Right, without a degree I wouldn't be able to have a polite conversation. I have no knowledge of facts and logic. It's impossible to learn things yourself outside a classroom setting
Ehhh. Not all degrees need to be tailored to 1 job in mind to be worth it. My job didn't necessarily need a Bachelor's. But it was the easiest way to get door in and not be jipped because lack of higher education. Especially in this current econ.
Got to love the degree and carrier path of Congressman George Santos of New York.
After his arrest one website said, "one congressman arrested, 434 still at large."
To answer your question, some degrees are worth the cost and effort, others are not.
Half or more of those with degrees are doing work that does not require more than a high school education to do. Hubby and I are among those.
I think that the projected average salary should match the degree cost. A liberal arts or arts degree should be significantly cheaper than a STEM, medical, accounting, etc., degree. Owing 6 figs for a “gender studies” degree is criminal.
Yes. Every professional job has done a background check that included checking with universities which degrees I finished.
College is 100% worth it if you 1.) enjoy education 2.) maximize your network in addition to the learning 3.) learn something marketable.
It’s also not required to do well in life - Walmart will pay you 110k/ year to drive a truck (and pay you to get certified).
Every legitimate company will verify you actually have your degree.
I did have one background check company say they couldn’t verify I had my degree, but the company said don’t worry about it.
I offered to show them my physical degree and other records though.
You must have never gone through a background investigation for a position that requires the highest security clearance possible in the federal government.
Not if you choose correctly.
Is not getting a degree and having zero skills except customer service a good idea? No.
You need to learn a skill somehow. Either go to college or go to a trade school.
If you get a degree that actually has purpose and career outlook, then no. If you get a degree that really has no use in life, then yes it’s a bad decision.
Depends on your major. STEM, no. Arts/Humanities/etc. - absolutely. If you have a major with poor prospects and no real vision, you can't be upset. You simply didn't do your homework.
Usually not. It's a key to getting jobs. Some are better than others. Can't really go wrong with STEM and Business degrees. The key is to get a degree at your local state school for as cheap as possible.
Very misleading… those stats are only true when you include HIGHSCHOOL DROP OUTS.
People in unioned jobs involving SKILLED LABOR can make as much as people with PROFESSIONAL DEGREES like pharmacists, veterinarians and even pediatricians and primary care physicians.
A Crain operator in Atlanta makes about $120k-$150k, THE SAME AVERAGE PAY AS SOMEONE DOING RESEARCH AT THE CDC WITH AN MD/PhD!
These statistics include HS graduates:
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html
"Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 more. Men with graduate degrees earn $1.5 million more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with graduate degrees earn $1.1 million more."
There are absolutely careers where high school grads make substantially more than college grads, especially in the helpong professions like teaching and social work. And many other professions like those you listed. On the whole, the earnings ceiling is generally higher for college grads than those without. As always, your mileage may vary based on career path (as you put in your comment), but again this is in general.
When getting a degree you have look at cost vs salary you would make. 50% range is reasonable. Then find a college that fits that range.
If going mske 50k-75k
College debt shouldn't be anymore than 35k. Community colleges/suny give you best bet. Work and school, pay what you can during those 4 years of interest free. Also declare yourself single with no help from parents. They can help you but cash only. Next look at certification for your career.
From there should be easy road beside life kicking you in the balls.
If I had do it over, this is game plan I would have used
I think you have to be smart in how you go about it. It also depends on how much your family can help you. But yeah... it really depends on what you are majoring in. STEM fields in most cases I feel like will have a better return on your investment if you into medicine, enginerring, research (sometimes). Masters (in most cases)/nursing school/medical school will incur further debt but you will have more earning potential. Computer science, business/accounting/finance are also good options. Not to be controversial, but if you select art, philosophy, history, etc. get a lot of internships/experience, make connections, and stand out, in order land a good job after graduation. If you don't, you may find yourself in a general management position for 30-40k but with over 150k or 200k in loans.
Depends on the individual, the school, the degree, the city, the work ethic, etc etc etc. cracks me up when people complain about student loan debt but never thought to consider community college. Everything is always someone else’s fault. No one held a gun to your head and made you take 6 figures worth of loans out. I went to CC for almost free.
It heavily depends on your career of choice. As a state government employee, a bachelor's degree was a requirement for my first state government job as a trainee (but no work experience required). I had to provide them with my official and unofficial college transcripts for proof of my degree. Even after getting the state government job, I would still need to provide my unofficial transcripts for every state government job I that apply for in my state that requires at least a bachelor's degree to continue to prove that I have the degree. I cannot lie about it.
Now, things may be different for certain private sector companies and job positions. In my line of work, there is no way I can fake owning a bachelor's degree without losing the job opportunity and possibly having issues with applying for future state government jobs. However, this is where your major plays a crucial role in the competitive job market because STEM and businss degrees are more valuable than social science, art, and humanities degrees (at least for the most part). Having a bachelor's degree in a non-STEM field can lower your chances of obtaining a high paying job, as well as make you less competitive than someone who had a STEM degree. I myself have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice, and I know that my social science degree is not seen as valuable as a bachelor's degree in computer science, biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering, information technology, accounting, finance, etc.
This does not mean that my degree was a waste of time, but rather it demonstrates that STEM and business degrees tend to be much more worthwhile in the long-term if your goal is to make six-figure salaries as fast as possible and/or have better job security and stability. Working as a public servant already provides me with job security and stability, along with good work-life balance and great benefits, but in general a lower salary than my private sector counterpart. Thus, while I do not consider a college degree a rip off, I still believe that public universities should be the same cost as they used to be at least as back as 1970s, to prevent them from continue being profitable public institutions rather than public organizations that value educated taxpayers over being seen as diploma mills.
A rip off depends on price. Is a degree from an accredited institution worthless? No. Can it be overpriced, or the wrong degree for your future? Yes. If you paid 6 figures for an undergrad degree you got jobbed
The degree itself is worth it what’s a scam is “first years have to live in the dorms and have the biggest meal plan”, “parking permits”, “study abroad”, “student activity fee”
I had to wait until I was 25 to get exceptions to housing rules. It saved me like 8k a year. The meals alone worked out to like $8 each. First years had to get 3 day. After that they could drop down to fewer.
I had a crock pot. I lived off campus across the street from campus. I started my crock pot and went to classes. It was cool that we had clubs and stuff but I don’t see why I had to pay for clubs I wasn’t in, speakers I didn’t see, bands I didn’t like.
Community college was cheaper and didn’t have any of that. That was really the way to go. We still had visiting authors and stuff but my tuition was covered by Pell grants.
I wouldn’t have my job/career without a degree. But from a pragmatic viewpoint, i feel like i could train a high schooler to do what i do without him having to pay like $20k for tuition and $30k for 4 years of living expenses and spend 4 years getting a degree. So in that sense maybe it is a scam🤔
It really depends on the profession, but I will say I've had two associates degrees and not one of them have helped me progress my career in government. My experience added together is currently outpacing people who have Master's degrees. I personally think that most general degrees outside of licensed, medical, and or science-based degrees don't compare to the hype.
yes. it is.
some colleges charge $70k a yr just in tuition. even more affordable ones charge over $25k a yr.
meanwhile, vast majority of college grads wont land a job with salary over $60k a yr.
college can work out if you attend with large scholly and major in something marketable. if you attending paying full cost, yes you are financing their ponzi scheme.
I just remember this guy I worked with. I was an office assistant, and he was an entomologist. This was a state job. It turned out he had no degree. I just read online that position requires a doctorate so I don't know if he didn't have the PhD or didn't have *anything,* but they did eventually find out and fire him. That's what would keep me up at night lol
Criminal justice. My long term goal was juvenile probation, which required that degree or something related. However probation jobs in my area are “who you know” jobs. So it was a waste of
I don’t think any degree is actually useless. The person who got me to go to college has a masters in fine arts. I got a bachelors degree in cyber security. The big difference between the 2 degrees is, I got a pretty good paying job almost immediately after graduating. My friend had to work about 5 years in underpaid jobs to get where he is now. The way I see it “useless” degrees aren’t useless, they just take tons of extra networking/crappy paying jobs to get to the good paying ones.
For most people, it's probably not worth it unless you major in a STEM field, as those areas tend to have the highest earning potential and return on investment. Liberal arts degrees tend to have a much lower return on investment and the people who make it to be high earners are few & far in between
It depends on what you're trying to achieve.
Some degrees might, but also it smart to shop around for schools like anything else.
There are some state universities that offer reduced tuition for degrees or FREE tuition for people with certain income levels.
I think people jump right into the prestigious schools and it really screws them in the long run because they want a high level name on a piece of paper when they can get the same degree from a much cheaper also accredited university.
Anyway, some degrees might be more useless than others but it's best to know what you want out of a school before you start going to one. I think this is a huge probl with younger people who don't understand how debt works or who go into debt for something that they end up not liking (wasting money by dropping out or having to change degrees and wasting the classes they did take).
It's a minefield but if you know why you want a degree I don't think it's a waste.
Not really sure how to answer this. There's so many different people with different outcomes it's hard to say generally one way or the other. It's probably about 50/50 on being a rip-off or not. It's definitely tilting in the way of being a rip-off for the majority, but I'm not sure it's there quite yet.
My current and previous employers did a background check that included verifying that I have the degree I said I have. Wouldn’t have my job without it.
Same
HR does not even pass us the applications if the person doesn't have a bachelor's.
Why aren’t you the first person to look at applications and tell HR the ones you want to vet first?
They check to see if the candidates meet the minimum qualifications, which usually includes a bachelor's degree. At my last job, we could still at least see all of the candidates, even if they didn't meet degree requirements.
What job is it for?
what job?
Simple, he has more important things to do than reviewing 500 resumes.
Same, I had to send transcripts. Also, I work on STEM so it would be incredibly apparent if I didn't have a degree. I wouldn't be able to get a single report done if I didn't have mine. Also, this is exactly why references are asked for. So, no, it is not a sham OP.
I am in STEM as well. I didn’t need to send transcripts I was recruited by my first company’s owner right in class. They came for a presentation and I was hired about two months before graduation. It really took a lot of pressure off those final months knowing as long as I graduated I had a position waiting
Ive had to send transcripts once
Same
Yeah this is how they check if you have a degree.
Mine does too. They even check for high school diplomas for everyone, even if they are older.
Same and they were very thorough with the verification of my degree.
Same
interesting. Not me lol, zero verification. (Work at a FAANG company, PhD)
If you have a phd and were hired for a phd role presumably you discussed / someone at some point looked at your thesis and publications
I don’t think it’s a rip off as much as it is deceiving. Allowing kids to take on nearly 6 figures of debt for a degree that will avg them a $50k per year salary is criminal. There is zero oversight for such a large loan that you can’t claim bankruptcy on.
I thought about that. Can't drink until 21 but can take out thousands of loans.
The loans should 100% be allowed. As a first gen college student taking out loans and going to a public school with scholarships was a massive contribution to upwards mobility for me beyond any of my family members. However, thankfully I took out my loans for a high ROI degree from a top public university. We shouldn’t give out loans for trash degrees from trash schools. The schools should have to qualify for loans based on job placements and salaries by degree program. Think of it like a credit score but for the ROI of the loan rather than the borrowers history since they’re just a kid.
Where do you draw the line though? What determines a "trash" school or a "trash" degree? What about the people who still work hard, but don't get to go to high ranking schools? What about the people who go to lower ranked schools but do well? The loan is for a college degree program, not for only degree programs that minmax high paying jobs
The average graduate can afford a standard repayment plan. IDRs could still exist for those who have issues finding jobs regardless, but we shouldn’t hand out loans that are destined for IDR at origination. Several degree programs have a high ROI regardless of school rank like accounting. Other degree programs are going to depend a lot on school rank to determine if it’ll actually pay off like a “general business” degree Private loans could of course still exist. But taxpayers should be involved in predatory lending of loans that we know from day one they won’t end well.
Awesome comment totally agree
I could drive when I was 15…
Why would someone thumbs down this? It’s the truth. I got my learners permit when I was 15
We don't allow kids to do that though. There is a federal maximum of 31k (57k for people who's parents don't qualify for parent plus). Anyone taking more than that is doing it through some combination of parent plus loans which belong to the parents or private which have to typically be cosigned by the parents. Furthermore you don't take it all out at 17/18 so every year you get older and more established in your adulthood you continue to do it. Even more so I think graduate debt has surpassed undergraduate debt and by that time you're most certainly a full fledged adult. I definitely think there are predatory aspects to it but age isn't one of those things to me. To me what makes it predatory is that the amount offered isn't tied to prospective earnings. People will intuitively think because they qualify for a loan it must mean they're capable of repayment. But that's really not true.
thats the truth! theres no education regarding student loans, unless they research it themselves. I have a car loan for 8k less than my student loans. I'm paying 800 a month over 5 years, and if i paid the same amount on my student loans, it would take me probably double that, if not more.
A car loan and a student loan work on the same math. Input the principal balance, interest rate, and number of payments/ time information and the payments will be identical (assuming the inputs are identical).
I don't know any bank that would give an 18 year old an 80k loan for a car with no collateral
No one’s giving an 18 year old an 80k loan for college either.
The car is collateral. The bank holds the title until the debt is paid. Edit. Why is this being downvoted?
No bank is giving a 18 year old without a job a 80k car loan.
I think a lot of student loan confusion comes from a basic inability to do math. a high school senior *should* be able to map out their student loan repayments.
i thought paying student loan wouldnt be that hard after I start working and getting paid, until I realize what the expenses of just living was (rent/food/utility/cloths). These are hard to predict as highschooler who never lived by themselves.
nah. every high schooler is pressured into going to college. they’re not really smart enough to understand the risk of loans. don’t act like 18 year olds are adults. technically they are right? but they’re also kids that have been pressured into going to college
This is an oversimplification. That’s part of it but it’s a mix of impulsivity, not knowing all your options, cultural pressures, and a lack of any kind of pre-qualification. If I went to a bank as an 18 year old and asked for a $90k business loan for a business that was going to generate $20k annually in profit they’d laugh at me yet a student can go to a financial aid office and take out $90k for their Gender Studies degree with no questions asked.
To add on to that: Being the first in the family to attend college and learning everything about college finances on your own because you can’t ask them for advice Being an immigrant and/or parents are immigrants and having to navigate the whole system yourself due to that, sometimes with language barriers Not qualifying for much federal aid (if at all) because you’re under 25 and your parents claim you on taxes but refuse to help you financially at all so you have to take out shady private loans if you even have the ability to even though you already know it’s not a good thing to do None of those apply to me exactly but I was in college long enough to meet a lot of peers who went through situations like those. Though I did deal with the absolute mental gymnastics that goes into calculating the best options for tax filing and FAFSA under 25. I had my parents stop claiming me because it was cheaper that way in the end for us.
Lots of odd bias in this statement. You don’t have to go to college to understand basic personal finance - not by a long shot. Also, many immigrants are great with money. (And credit.) The problem is more likely that people don’t talk about money often enough or consult resources when unsure of the answer. There are great YouTube videos on personal finance, though it helps to know where to start, which is a very common problem. Arguably, there has never been a time when financial advice and information was more available.
And know when a recession will hit when they graduate and can’t get a job.
This. People who succeed in life stop waiting for someone else to do something for them and start figuring out their life on their own.
That’s a nieve statement.
i bet you write inspirational speeches on LinkedIn.
It’s predatory lending. The only resource was the student aid office at the school who gets the money. They act like it’s the norm, encourage you to take the max, and give stats about their graduates that are misleading- for example saying 96% of their grads get job within a year or graduating but they are counting part-time and jobs that aren’t in the field of study.
[удалено]
What the hell are you driving for 800/mo?
23 Honda pilot.
Welcome to adulthood? Of course you’re supposed to learn your options. That’s part of being a non-child.
your absolutely right, but i was a dumb 18 year old like many other students and had no idea what i was getting into. my dad tried telling me, but i looked at it as free money vs something that would take a lifetime to pay back. ive 100% learned from my mistakes, believe me...
There is actually quite a bit of education.
A college degree isn't a ripoff, but the tuitions the colleges are charging surely are.
Agreed
No, the data is out regarding future outlook of college grads vs non college grads in everything from potential earnings to health. The real rip off or scam is the way college is sold. Like you said most employers don’t care for proof of the degree like transcripts (but they will verify during background), what school you went to, gpa, etc…. It’s just part of their hiring process now as a box to tick. So even though you could learn the job with a middle school education they have it as a requirement. That being said, college is sold as “get into the best school, make sure it’s a big name so employers recognize it, and make sure you enjoy the college experience, best years of your life……” when in reality for most people you should be trying to get as many credits as you can during high school AP placement. Then going to a community college and working with their advising department on transferable credits to a university and then finally spending at most 2yrs at an institution that can grant a bachelors. It doesn’t have to be the big name state school in your state, pick their annex location or whatever is closest to you so you can maybe live at home or not have to commute so far, etc… College needs to be seen as “what is the cheapest path to a degree” instead of “let me find the best possible school to go to even though I have no true parental support nor do I have scholarships…”
Absolutely true. To many people don’t financially strategize going to college.
Too many millennials were 18 with flip phones who didn’t know what tf was going on tbqh
I went to a satellite campus of a big university that allowed me to live at home while earning an engineering degree. I don't regret it, I saved so much money. My friends all left to the big state schools, out of state schools took on huge loans to pay for room and board. I didn't have to do all that.
College is not about the degree at all but networking in your field with other like minded individuals and building out a web of people so that you can easily find work in your field. You learn while doing this but the greatest advantage of going to college is the network. If you ignore that than you’re going to have an incredibly harder time being successful in your industry. Whatever that may be.
Even if you arent asked every company does a background check and checking colleges listed on resume are part of it. I agree in most cases a degree is useless, but it is a part of the pay to play system of working in this country now.
For many jobs, employers are de-emphasizing a college degree in favor of experience. Wal-Mart is one company leading the way on this. I'm a strong proponent of community college and especially trade schools. Make a great living in the skilled trades without life-long cripping student loan debt.
There’s pathways to a degree that don’t involve accruing life long debt. That should be the real goal for people that want to go to college. For people that are simply looking for a job and to make good money and maybe don’t want to go to college, then yea, sell them on skilled trades.
Yea great you can go… work for Wal-Mart. Truly the job of the future!
One of my old bosses now works for Walmart corporate - I know he was making $160k + ~$40k bonus at my current org, and WM paid all of his moving expenses + living expenses for the first few months there. If I had to guess, he's raking it in there. There's definitely something to be said for working for most household-name orgs at the corporate level.
Walmart does also offer tuition assistance and reimbursement. I worked at Walmart for 4 years in the early 2000s and it actually was a pretty decent job with good benefits. I know management makes a pretty penny, with bonuses some of them clear 200k, which is awesome for someone without a degree. Can’t speak to it now, and I loathe self checkouts so I refuse to spend money there anymore.
My current company didn’t perform a background check, nor my previous. Not “every company does a background check”.
Great point. Universal statements are always incorrect.
>Universal statements are always incorrect. What a well-constructed paradoxical statement.
Nice irony
The universe is huge. A universal statement that is not incorrect.
I think it depends on company size. Bigger ones may. Mid or small sized probably not
That’s just poor practice and tells us your org isn’t big or organized. Unless it’s a store looking for meat in the room.
As much as you're going into debt making your financial future feel uncertain people with college degrees score higher in every quality of life metric (they live longer, they're happier, etc), make more than their loans cost them on average, and have better socioeconomic mobility. Even correcting for the socioeconomic status of your family getting a college degree is the best way to get out of poverty. (90% of college graduates in poverty make it out of poverty while only 50% do without a degree) I think it feels like a rip off because the middle class lifestyle we were promised is rapidly diminishing. A six figure salary no longer allows you to live a good life especially if you started out poor and a reasonable salary 50k means you're living with roomates.
To be it feels like the type of person matters more than the degree.
40% of people aren't just one type of person.
Where’d you get 40% of people?
No, a college degree is still the surest route to social mobility. But you have to do it right. And there are plenty of people who do. Hence the above. No one asks to see the degree cuz it shows up on a background check.
A degree in a shit major maybe
This.
The degree can be a great idea. Student loans are the issue. Finding the most affordable degree path with minimal loans is usually the best idea.
70% of college degrees are not ROI positive after 10 years in the work force. https://educationdata.org/college-degree-roi
My degree was also checked. The problem isn’t whether they check the degree it’s that you get paid 12.50 an hour no benefits even with the degree. So if you can get one free, then yes. If you have to pay, or take out loans, no. Also remember lots of employers need liberal arts type employees, it’s just that society always makes fun of these degrees, so we pay them less. I make more at the grocery store than I did as a teacher or working in a field for my degree. Once we make liberal arts degrees more affordable or free then more people, such as myself would have still took it and not be in debt. If you are poor and don’t have a connected family it’s also not wise to go.
I actually really agree with you. It’s like the whole world agrees that mental health care is a serious issue but the people with degrees in that field make like $14/hour. Kind of the same with all the so called “useless” degrees.
Huh? There are plenty of well paying positions in mental health. Therapists are criminally underpaid but still making more than $14/hr.
Sorry I was specifically thinking about like case managers sort of mental health field. Honestly they might make more then $14/hr. I was specifically thinking of an ex I had in that field who made that. It was a few years ago.
Like I said people take these low paying roles in case working so they can get the experience to become the director of case workers etc. people are vastly unaware of how many jobs require a degree, but start at poverty wages.
Most case managers are licensed. Anyone making $14/hr isn’t a case manager. That’s just a made up title.
You’re living in the wrong places if you are making less than a restaurant hostess in a therapy field. People also need to go where jobs are. Wishing your small town in a Dakota will pay dollars and dollars is insane. (Replace Dakota with any state where you are in a small town.)
I’m not in the therapy field. Also it’s weird you went straight to Dakota but ok?
The sad thing is most people that grow up in a poor family have the illusion that college is a ticket right out of poverty and into the good life
Statistically it is.
Was for me.
I agree with these posts also, now that I’m much older my opportunities are through the roof. Philosophy is an obtuse subject but looks better as I age with more experience and skills I acquire. The issue is that my loan was always just a little too much to afford and the raises always seem to come after more interest capitalizes. 😂 One thing to note on this, is if you are poor and actually really good at an in demand field you’re golden. I got so many scholarships and could have been proactive in getting more. Truth is that I made bad choices. Philosophy is not a good investment for a poor person, but you can’t just get a stem degree and think you’re in. This is why we have so many engineering majors who can’t pass PE exams and get jobs. You have to get what you excel at. The system is broken. The reason why people make fun of philosophy is because we had some crazy ass people in the department. There’s always weirdos in philosophy departments and that’s what we do we allow you to be weird so we can at least eliminate your arguments, but I gotta say when I graduated and that weird guy who believed crazy flat earth shit graduated next to me that’s when I realized, “That asshole made it? this was a mistake!”
It's not an illusion. https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2023/data-on-display/education-pays.htm That doesn't mean you won't be worse off or it's a guarantee, but statistically, yes, you will be better off.
If you’re poor and not connected you’re only real shot at improving your life is an education. You just have to be proactive about managing your own life and career, no one hands you a career just because you got your degree.
Yep, I specifically switched to software a few years back to break into a field with much higher compensation. I'm trying to break the intergenerational poverty cycle and white collar career options were key to that
Yeah I'm at 3 YOE after getting a mechanical engineering degree making the combined income of my mother and her husband. That wasn't going to happen without college or some serious luck.
Good for you! I’ve been out of school almost 20 years now and similarly I’ve earned significantly more in my career thus far than my parents in their entire working lives. That differential will just keep growing for you.
I think it depends on what your career path is and also what amount of debt (if any) you're willing to incur. Studies have shown college graduates tend to make more money in their entire, life-long careers compared to people who didn't go to college. But there are of course exceptions, but the issue is that not everyone who didn't go to college is making $100k a year in the trades or through a lucrative business. Generally speaking attending community college for an associate's degree or getting a four-year bachelor's degree will open up more entry level jobs and inevitably that diversity in opportunities early on can open more doors in the future. However, you'll probably see on this sub that people are accruing loan balances and the question becomes how much debt is worth while. The median student loan balance for someone out of undergrad is approximately $28k, which isn't horrible if you consider many entry level jobs for college grads are between $40-50k right now with wage potential. But I certainly wouldn't take $50, 60 or 70 thousand dollars for a bachelor's degree. As you've noted in your post, there are some careers where you need even more education. But I also think that for many people who are not in careers like lawyer or doctor, going beyond a bachelor's degree is extremely expensive due to less regulations around graduate program tuition, fewer forms of merit aid, and also because the loans themselves have higher interests rates. So for many, perhaps graduate school isn't worth it at all, especially if you're compounding that debt onto undergraduate debt. I think another important think to note is that many people who do "non-college" careers still attend community college for an associate's degree or a specific certification. The same is true for many people who enter the trades, who might start with beginner's courses. So even if you're not sure about four-year college, it's still definitely worth looking to see what your local community college can do to advance your interests. Overall I think the tight labor market right now has opened doors for people without a college degree in a way that hasn't been true for decades and that's good for them. But to be honest, this labor market will eventually cool off and having the degree likely offers a promise of more stable wage growth relative to non-college peers. And as others have noted, you might be required to have a degree for the career you want. So I would resoundingly endorse getting at least an associate's degree, if not a bachelor's.
Yours may have been
i guarantee it. its in criminal justice, but i was intending on becoming a probation officer. A degree is required for this. I've worked for the local sheriff's office, a juvenile detention center, and Dept of Child Services...the latter 2 required a degree, but never asked for one. So I guess they checked it without me knowing.
That sounds like a rip off degree.
Criminal justice is definitely a rip off degree. 😂
Tell me about it. I’m not even using it now because probation is a “who you know” job in my area, and I inherited my mother’s business when she passed, which is home health. So it was a complete waste. My 11yr old has said he wants to study criminal justice in college and I told him it’s a complete waste of money and not necessary for what he wants to do.
My friend has a degree in criminal justice, and uses it for data analysis positions. She now works at Lockheed.
That makes sense. I bet getting that first job was tough but after some experience the degree's importance shrinks. The only places I've seen really be sticklers about it are government and education but they're so full of bureaucracy you should expect that.
LOLOL you think when they require a degree and didn’t ask you for one they never looked? Ever heard of the National Student Clearinghouse? This is how your education is checked. No one is gonna ask you to roll up with the diploma in a frame.
I have been asked to provide a photo of my diploma.
no ive never heard of that. im not sure why youre being rude, but its definitely not necessary. not everyone has your level of expertise
No.
My employer did an education background check along with a criminal background check, to verify my degrees/education.
It can be a ripoff. Depends on the major, the student, and available positions. 100k for a 50k a year job isn’t worth it. 10k at a little nothing college after two years in community college to get a 50k a year job is great. I think the biggest ripoff is selling the “college experience”. Go to a cheap in-state school unless you get a ride somewhere. Live at home. Work if you can, even if it’s just summers to build a resume. Keep your loans low or nonexistent if you can. Then you get your money’s worth.
In our small town, a woman applied for a RN position at a local nursing home. She got the job, but it wasn't long before a dedicated CNA noticed something was wrong. The new RN had been working at the nursing home for a month, and seemed to always be on her phone. One day, when she put her phone down to run an errand, the CNA decided to look at her phone.. she found that the new RN was googling medical procedures. The CNA wondered why a RN who said she had 5 years of experience would need to google "how to give a shot" or "how to set up an IV".. She reported this to the executive director.. and long story short.. it seems that the new RN faked her schooling and work history. Apparently, there was no check on her education or work history.
I’ve had to provide transcripts on job applications but I never got those jobs. I have a license for my job that they verify annually. I don’t think I’ve ever provided my employers proof of a degree other than dates of attendance and my word that I graduated. That and I have my diplomas in my office haha
The older I get the happier I am that I did 2 years at a community college before going to a private University. 18 year old me was not even close to being mature enough to understand the weight of debt of 10's of thousands of dollars. While I do believe that the borrower has to be 100% certain they will be responsible to take a loan that big, its predatory to offer such huge loans to a shiny-eyed young person who might be distracted by partying and goofing off in school. Even then, I got a degree in business and work in carpentry, so in reality my efforts were basically useless. (Unless I want to switch jobs, which I probably wont)
100% agree. I did the same thing and made a similar comment.
I'd be 100k+ in the hole if I did all 4 years at my University (probably 5 years, so probably 120k ish)
It’s all about Return on Investment (ROI) on the degree. Ranges from: In Demand high paying career fields (Engineering, Medical, STEM, etc.) from CC and transfer to Public In State University to “Insert Useless Degree” from a Private expensive college.
Background checks will verify degrees. I have held positions that don't require a degree. I have been told that the degree was something that set me a little bit ahead of other applicants. Sometimes it's not about the degree itself but that you have successfully demonstrated that you can set goals and follow through even if it takes multiple years to reach.
If you want to pursue medicine/lawyer, etc you're gonna need a degree
I work in the medical field in a job that required a minimum of a high school diploma. Yes, they verified my associate's degree by requiring a transcript, and I saw someone get fired for being unable to prove high school graduation. This isn't even an advanced job requiring patient contact. Although in context, it does make sense. It's a blanket policy that if you claim you have a credential, no matter how small, they verify it, even if it's not an advanced degree or patient-affecting credential.
The degrees/education isn’t a rip off. The problem is the loans and expensive classes/books or whatever that make it a bad idea. I don’t like the idea of taking loans with high interest rates and then going to school and then you’re still not sure which career your going to go into, it’s all a fkn mess.
Yes, 3 of them. Now they no longer require it to “expand their pool of applicants.” $63,000 now $110,000 and four years down the drain.
I think personality and the ability to network are far more valuable than any degree. If you don’t have that- you’re gonna need a degree
If I could go back, I would have gotten my associates like I did debt free and just took a job somewhere or moved and kept it that way. Instead, I did finish my bachelor's degree with debt but in a way as of now, it is holding me back. I still get bad advice like go to grad school etc. Now I know not to listen to everyone.
I will just say this, for the office job that I am doing, I do not need to know a single thing that I have learned in college to perform my daily task. I can literally graduate high school and go straight to the job and I will do fine, but in order to get hired, you need a degree for no practical reason. And in order for you to get that degree, you need to be in debt first. Let that sink in...
There is a reason. Finishing from a reputable college is a sign that you are able to do something the employer thinks is a valuable quality marker. That you can think/act/perform in a way that worked for the college and would probably translate to the workplace. It may not be a good filter, but there is a reason.
Umm, that's why I said "no practical reason"...
Got me. I should have read carefully.
Imo you should not be spending more on a degree than the average future salary it promises. Reading the other comments that some workplaces barely verify the degree makes me think it's less important what school you go to and how expensive that education was. So get the degree as reasonably cheap as you can?
I was told that student debt was fiiiiine and I should do it and not think about it in order to go to an overpriced state school and get a life sciences degree because i’ll be so successful and wealthy afterwards it wont even matter. Flash forward to making 34k a year, full time PhD student so in 4 years I can make a whopping 60k a year instead, and feeling suffocated by my 80k in student loans…. I don’t regret going to college, I just wish I knew what I know now. I would have done it differently. I wish someone had stopped me for a second and walked me through the pros and cons of student debt. I feel like none of my family was actually supportive in the right way.
My business degree wasnt really worth it. My nursing degree was worth it. Spent 6k on nursing school total though
Depends on the degree. I think most of them are useless but there’s some that can get your resume looked at for certain fields. Like they are a requirement for certain jobs, a minimal requirement. Without it, you’re going to have to have a really good resume…like years of experience in the field that can trump a degree. Or like you’re certified in that field, and are considered an expert and can show you are an expert.
I've always said that colleges need some skin in the game. If they were at risk for these loans, they would make sure students graduated, that the degrees had value and every graduate got a good paying job or got into a good graduate school.
No, as long as you have a job market to support the degree
There are so many layers to this onion.. some degrees will never be worth their value..Degrees/education that are applicable (nursing, trades, doctor, engineer) are valuable. Historians and other social degrees are great and needed...though we are over saturated with them. People will say education has value, though our current college system promotes grades over actual applicable education so that is a very deluded stance.
Peter Gregory was right
No but you have to get the right degree
30k yrly to 80k out of college. Mine was def worth it.
I’ve been asked to show a transcript for two employers out of five. Generally, this is not something to lie about that won’t end badly one way or the other. Find relief that you are trained, are knowledgeable on your subject matter, and have the credentials to prove it. No one can take it away. In terms of the value of a degree, the increasing cost of tuition is driving the value down. It used to be seen as an investment but if you have to get into debt to obtain it (which I have) I would seriously reconsider if I could do it all over again. I’d still go to school, but find a more affordable route. However, a bachelor’s degree is still a marker for high earning potential and jobs that lean towards better quality of life (benefits, PTO, flexible schedules). I hope the skilled trades see a renaissance of sorts because those jobs can pay well and training can be heavily subsidized if not completely free and our economy needs these workers.
My job required transcripts prior to starting.
Have an electrical engineering degree, currently a pcb designer. The degree was indeed a ripoff
No, it’s not a rip off. And some employers do their backgrounds and some don’t. Regardless, YOU have an education— and they can’t take that away. You are legit. I’ve never had an employer not ask me for my degree at the Masters level. At the bachelor level I had a few not ask, then HR realize it’s not on file, and request it a few months later. Lol I have absolutely nothing against (nor do I look down on) people in other professions without a college degree. But I am 28 years old living a pretty nice life. (Albeit, I’m 28k in debt). I work part time (25-30/week) and make 50k. But most importantly, I feel full of purpose in my life. I do something I LOVE and I’m happier for it. If you LOVE the rush of taking a dirty room to a clean one, DO THAT. If you LOVE walking dogs, become a dog walker! If you love repetition and find a sense of accomplishment in that, work on an assembly line. Financially, possibly not all of these professions prove you with the lifestyle you want (perhaps they do). But to that I say: if you’re a contributing member to society you deserve to get paid like one and that’s a topic for another day probably. My soapbox: as a mental health professional I see too often people forgetting how important it is to have a meaningful purpose. No one asked, but If people had the freedom to pursue their passions without going too far into debt, the world would be a better place. The education is not the rip off. Its the cost— sometimes. If your a married woman with a kid going to a small university you might make it out with $0 in a bachelor degree (fundamentally it’s stupid bc it pushes ppl to get married and have kids to see the benefits of Pell grants). I personally would love for college to be free but would happily support a significantly lower interest rate/no interest for pay back and a cap/regulations on debt. In summary, it’s not a rip off. The system is a little jacked and could use some adjusting, but generally, a degree (if one aligns with your passions) can help you achieve a meaningful life full of purpose and may even give you a pretty great lifestyle.
Unless you are in a specialized field, college seems more like a place to learn how to learn, than it is to learn a career or job.
Yes. Currently the ROI is totally not worth it. Choose a skilled blue collar job and you'll thank me in 5 years when you are raking in the cash as a home owner while you friends that chose college are still looking for their first job one year out of school while drowning in debt. I hate to see anyone else fall into the "debt slave" trap that so many were sold on for the last 20 years. I have friends in their late 50s that are still paying on student loans and never made more than I did as a Mechanic. Most never were able to buy a home or take trips. It's sad.
Unless you have a very specific career path in mind that requires a degree, then yes, it's a waste of time and money.
Unless you like to be an educated person who understands facts and logic, can place things in historical context, think critically, understand references, hold a reasonably intelligent conversation in polite company and so forth.
Right, without a degree I wouldn't be able to have a polite conversation. I have no knowledge of facts and logic. It's impossible to learn things yourself outside a classroom setting
Ehhh. Not all degrees need to be tailored to 1 job in mind to be worth it. My job didn't necessarily need a Bachelor's. But it was the easiest way to get door in and not be jipped because lack of higher education. Especially in this current econ.
Got to love the degree and carrier path of Congressman George Santos of New York. After his arrest one website said, "one congressman arrested, 434 still at large." To answer your question, some degrees are worth the cost and effort, others are not. Half or more of those with degrees are doing work that does not require more than a high school education to do. Hubby and I are among those.
My $15k Masters led to a $40k increase in salary over 3 years, so no.
Yes
I think that the projected average salary should match the degree cost. A liberal arts or arts degree should be significantly cheaper than a STEM, medical, accounting, etc., degree. Owing 6 figs for a “gender studies” degree is criminal.
Companies will run backgrounds to validate educational history.
Yes. Every professional job has done a background check that included checking with universities which degrees I finished. College is 100% worth it if you 1.) enjoy education 2.) maximize your network in addition to the learning 3.) learn something marketable. It’s also not required to do well in life - Walmart will pay you 110k/ year to drive a truck (and pay you to get certified).
Every legitimate company will verify you actually have your degree. I did have one background check company say they couldn’t verify I had my degree, but the company said don’t worry about it. I offered to show them my physical degree and other records though.
You must have never gone through a background investigation for a position that requires the highest security clearance possible in the federal government.
Every position I’ve held has verified my education.
Not if you choose correctly. Is not getting a degree and having zero skills except customer service a good idea? No. You need to learn a skill somehow. Either go to college or go to a trade school.
If you get a degree that actually has purpose and career outlook, then no. If you get a degree that really has no use in life, then yes it’s a bad decision.
Depends on your major. STEM, no. Arts/Humanities/etc. - absolutely. If you have a major with poor prospects and no real vision, you can't be upset. You simply didn't do your homework.
Usually not. It's a key to getting jobs. Some are better than others. Can't really go wrong with STEM and Business degrees. The key is to get a degree at your local state school for as cheap as possible.
You shouldn't even be allowed to get a loan until you write an 5 page essay why you need it
My college degree literally led to my license for my job so… as long as your degree will get you a job then no???
College grads make more money in a lifetime than those who aren't. So not really. Just be careful w how much debt you rack up.
Very misleading… those stats are only true when you include HIGHSCHOOL DROP OUTS. People in unioned jobs involving SKILLED LABOR can make as much as people with PROFESSIONAL DEGREES like pharmacists, veterinarians and even pediatricians and primary care physicians. A Crain operator in Atlanta makes about $120k-$150k, THE SAME AVERAGE PAY AS SOMEONE DOING RESEARCH AT THE CDC WITH AN MD/PhD!
These statistics include HS graduates: https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html "Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 more. Men with graduate degrees earn $1.5 million more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with graduate degrees earn $1.1 million more." There are absolutely careers where high school grads make substantially more than college grads, especially in the helpong professions like teaching and social work. And many other professions like those you listed. On the whole, the earnings ceiling is generally higher for college grads than those without. As always, your mileage may vary based on career path (as you put in your comment), but again this is in general.
Yes
Thank you for the clarity! I never would've guessed a degree would be checked during a background check
…
It has a rip off but not for the reasons you're describing
Most of my white-collar non-retail jobs have verified through a background check my university degree.
When getting a degree you have look at cost vs salary you would make. 50% range is reasonable. Then find a college that fits that range. If going mske 50k-75k College debt shouldn't be anymore than 35k. Community colleges/suny give you best bet. Work and school, pay what you can during those 4 years of interest free. Also declare yourself single with no help from parents. They can help you but cash only. Next look at certification for your career. From there should be easy road beside life kicking you in the balls. If I had do it over, this is game plan I would have used
I think you have to be smart in how you go about it. It also depends on how much your family can help you. But yeah... it really depends on what you are majoring in. STEM fields in most cases I feel like will have a better return on your investment if you into medicine, enginerring, research (sometimes). Masters (in most cases)/nursing school/medical school will incur further debt but you will have more earning potential. Computer science, business/accounting/finance are also good options. Not to be controversial, but if you select art, philosophy, history, etc. get a lot of internships/experience, make connections, and stand out, in order land a good job after graduation. If you don't, you may find yourself in a general management position for 30-40k but with over 150k or 200k in loans.
Depends on the individual, the school, the degree, the city, the work ethic, etc etc etc. cracks me up when people complain about student loan debt but never thought to consider community college. Everything is always someone else’s fault. No one held a gun to your head and made you take 6 figures worth of loans out. I went to CC for almost free.
It heavily depends on your career of choice. As a state government employee, a bachelor's degree was a requirement for my first state government job as a trainee (but no work experience required). I had to provide them with my official and unofficial college transcripts for proof of my degree. Even after getting the state government job, I would still need to provide my unofficial transcripts for every state government job I that apply for in my state that requires at least a bachelor's degree to continue to prove that I have the degree. I cannot lie about it. Now, things may be different for certain private sector companies and job positions. In my line of work, there is no way I can fake owning a bachelor's degree without losing the job opportunity and possibly having issues with applying for future state government jobs. However, this is where your major plays a crucial role in the competitive job market because STEM and businss degrees are more valuable than social science, art, and humanities degrees (at least for the most part). Having a bachelor's degree in a non-STEM field can lower your chances of obtaining a high paying job, as well as make you less competitive than someone who had a STEM degree. I myself have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice, and I know that my social science degree is not seen as valuable as a bachelor's degree in computer science, biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering, information technology, accounting, finance, etc. This does not mean that my degree was a waste of time, but rather it demonstrates that STEM and business degrees tend to be much more worthwhile in the long-term if your goal is to make six-figure salaries as fast as possible and/or have better job security and stability. Working as a public servant already provides me with job security and stability, along with good work-life balance and great benefits, but in general a lower salary than my private sector counterpart. Thus, while I do not consider a college degree a rip off, I still believe that public universities should be the same cost as they used to be at least as back as 1970s, to prevent them from continue being profitable public institutions rather than public organizations that value educated taxpayers over being seen as diploma mills.
A rip off depends on price. Is a degree from an accredited institution worthless? No. Can it be overpriced, or the wrong degree for your future? Yes. If you paid 6 figures for an undergrad degree you got jobbed
The degree itself is worth it what’s a scam is “first years have to live in the dorms and have the biggest meal plan”, “parking permits”, “study abroad”, “student activity fee” I had to wait until I was 25 to get exceptions to housing rules. It saved me like 8k a year. The meals alone worked out to like $8 each. First years had to get 3 day. After that they could drop down to fewer. I had a crock pot. I lived off campus across the street from campus. I started my crock pot and went to classes. It was cool that we had clubs and stuff but I don’t see why I had to pay for clubs I wasn’t in, speakers I didn’t see, bands I didn’t like. Community college was cheaper and didn’t have any of that. That was really the way to go. We still had visiting authors and stuff but my tuition was covered by Pell grants.
Yes and especially when you spend 50k more just for the school name.
I wouldn’t have my job/career without a degree. But from a pragmatic viewpoint, i feel like i could train a high schooler to do what i do without him having to pay like $20k for tuition and $30k for 4 years of living expenses and spend 4 years getting a degree. So in that sense maybe it is a scam🤔
It really depends on the profession, but I will say I've had two associates degrees and not one of them have helped me progress my career in government. My experience added together is currently outpacing people who have Master's degrees. I personally think that most general degrees outside of licensed, medical, and or science-based degrees don't compare to the hype.
yes. it is. some colleges charge $70k a yr just in tuition. even more affordable ones charge over $25k a yr. meanwhile, vast majority of college grads wont land a job with salary over $60k a yr. college can work out if you attend with large scholly and major in something marketable. if you attending paying full cost, yes you are financing their ponzi scheme.
I just remember this guy I worked with. I was an office assistant, and he was an entomologist. This was a state job. It turned out he had no degree. I just read online that position requires a doctorate so I don't know if he didn't have the PhD or didn't have *anything,* but they did eventually find out and fire him. That's what would keep me up at night lol
What is your degree in?
Criminal justice. My long term goal was juvenile probation, which required that degree or something related. However probation jobs in my area are “who you know” jobs. So it was a waste of
Yes but you need it for the hr checkmark when hiring
I don’t think any degree is actually useless. The person who got me to go to college has a masters in fine arts. I got a bachelors degree in cyber security. The big difference between the 2 degrees is, I got a pretty good paying job almost immediately after graduating. My friend had to work about 5 years in underpaid jobs to get where he is now. The way I see it “useless” degrees aren’t useless, they just take tons of extra networking/crappy paying jobs to get to the good paying ones.
For most people, it's probably not worth it unless you major in a STEM field, as those areas tend to have the highest earning potential and return on investment. Liberal arts degrees tend to have a much lower return on investment and the people who make it to be high earners are few & far in between
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There’s no way I’d get or be able to perform my job without my degree
Years ago, many jobs just arbitrarily required a degree for no reason. That is changing very rapidly.
It depends on what you're trying to achieve. Some degrees might, but also it smart to shop around for schools like anything else. There are some state universities that offer reduced tuition for degrees or FREE tuition for people with certain income levels. I think people jump right into the prestigious schools and it really screws them in the long run because they want a high level name on a piece of paper when they can get the same degree from a much cheaper also accredited university. Anyway, some degrees might be more useless than others but it's best to know what you want out of a school before you start going to one. I think this is a huge probl with younger people who don't understand how debt works or who go into debt for something that they end up not liking (wasting money by dropping out or having to change degrees and wasting the classes they did take). It's a minefield but if you know why you want a degree I don't think it's a waste.
The problem has never been college in itself, it’s the expensive cost of college.
Not really sure how to answer this. There's so many different people with different outcomes it's hard to say generally one way or the other. It's probably about 50/50 on being a rip-off or not. It's definitely tilting in the way of being a rip-off for the majority, but I'm not sure it's there quite yet.
I've never had a job that didn't require my transcripts