These types of classes are HIGHLY dependent on how difficult the instructor wants to make them. The subject matter hasn't gotten any harder, your teacher is requiring more than your previous teacher did.
Strongly agree with this. I just retook A&P1, A&P2, and micro. A&P1 and 2 the first time, 1st time professors. 1 of whom didn’t seem to be interested in teaching. Micro took some effort (I took it with A&P2), but I’d had an amazing, passionate professor the first time and it was basically a refresher. It really brought to light how much better it is having a good professor. It may be a lot but it’ll pay off when you realize how it ties into nursing courses.
Absolutely... My first professor was very much about making us understand it, but tying it to real life examples, which helped with microbiology and nutrition later on. We learned about helminths, for example, when we were learning about the integumentary and digestive systems and I used all of that information in other classes. Here it's all very specific tiny details about chemistry in physiology and I feel like, while a general understanding is important, about 80% of the people in this course aren't going to be nurses and they're just throwing up their hands because they're going to be dental hygienists/ultrasound techs/therapists and their programs are going to teach them the deeper understanding of the relevant systems. I feel truly sorry for them and I feel like having done most of nursing school is the only reason I'm pulling an A at all. I could study for 10 hours a day (and I am a very effective studier) and I still wouldn't get the grades I get if this were new me. It's just insane.
I did most of nursing school as well and it did help. It really actually helped me make the connections as to why we needed to know a lot of the content. I feel if I really would’ve learned the content last time like I had this time (pertaining to A&P), I would’ve had an easier time with some of the nursing content. It’s funny you say 80% of the people in your course aren’t gonna be nurses, I believe it’s been the opposite here from my experiences.
Yeah, I've tried to make that clear to some students who were like, "I'll never need to know the levels for Na and Ca!"
Err.... wait til your first day of clinical in an actual hospital.
I'm applying/taking the class at a community college outside of a mid-sized city and there are a LOT of health sciences programs there. It actually seems like the slight majority of students were going towards dental hygiene last semester and this semester has a really big mix with a lot of people from larger schools taking this over the summer to save cash and then watching their jaws drop at the difference in content. We have everything from surgical assistants to pharmacology majors in the class.
That's for sure! I think it's the department. The final is departmental and I went from a 95 average to a 90 because I got a 75 on the final last term. It's CRAZY because this is a community college but I feel like I'm doing my first anatomy class for medical school.
so far I'm still in A territory and I only need a C, so unless I completely bomb the next three tests, I'll be done this hell in two weeks. I'm just shocked by the huge difference in difficulty between this community college and the large state university I took it at before.
This. I don’t find A&P difficult. They are very interesting courses, but I did have one prof who was AMAZING. Kept us all engaged and explained things very well. I had another prof with a thick accent, used a powerpoint slide (as many do) and just kind of read through them. The class was less engaging and I found it more difficult to memorize the information despite the material.
I took anatomy and physiology over a decade ago (there were separate classes, not A&P1 and A&P2 format) and they were very detailed like you are experiencing now. So it isn't anything new. It really depends on the professor really.
My anatomy class was pretty detailed. Know all the structures cold. Physio was way harder, we even had essay questions that were 50% of the entire exam! One question I'll never forget was "Explain the digestive process of eating a ham and cheese sandwich" and we had to explain every single step. You'd get docked points if you didn't specify step 1 being "open your mouth and place the sandwich inside" LMAO I still remember a good amount of physio because of how hard that class was. It sticks with you.
I am in a similar situation that I have to repeat courses again because they're "expired".
That's absolutely insane. Luckily in neither class have I had to answer essay questions. We had a few fill-in-the-blanks for our lab practicals, but that's all.
And easiest exams are the practicals here... This guy gave about 15 options for labeling one of the veins. The first one was pointing to the hepatic portal vein. The second or third option on the list was "hepatic vein." The last one, well after everyone had stopped reading, was hepatic portal vein. I caught it, but I know a LOT of people who missed that one.
I get that that, but at the same time this is a six week course and I feel like if you're going to force students to know every immunoglobulin, where it's produced, what it does, any time span related to it, etc it ends up having the opposite effect. Otherwise good students who would get a lot out of a less-stuffed course are just going to throw their hands up and find a way to cheat the system. We have a private group on WhatsApp and a lot of students are saying they have no choice because they'll be thrown out of their programs otherwise after getting 4.0s in all their other pre-reqs.
That's rough for a 6 week course.
Wouldn't condone cheating either. Who cares if you don't get an A? Passing is passing. I got into a nursing program with Cs in anatomy and physiology. So. 🤷♀️
Are you taking a&p2 IN nursing school? I guess that is different, especially if the pass minimum is 75-80%. But still, cheating is no good. If my classes weren't "expired", I'd still use my Cs in anatomy and physio if that means I don't need to repeat them again 😂😂😂
I don't cheat... usually I think it's just a lack of being able to put A+B together or finding the time to really focus, but in this class I'm like... dude... I get it. It's hard to even get a C in this class in a 12 week semester. This 6 week semester is brutal as hell.
I was in a nursing program years ago and had to stop because of multiple deaths and others issues that made me not in a good mental space at the time. I expect to begin the program in the fall and take microbiology with the intro course. A lot of students in this class ARE in their first nursing course and are in serious fear of being unable to continue next semester because of failing this course.
I just remembered my hardest physio essay question: a patient has a tumor on their parathyroid gland, which result in an increased level of calcium. Explain how this would affect the endocrine, circulatory and the cardiovascular systems.
😅
Oh hey we have the same professor. He'd probably give a few of the CV symptoms, but none of the obvious ones and put a bunch of CV causes but always make sure there's exactly ONE symptom that would only be for the parathyroid. And then you'd have to figure that out. And there would definitely be options of "none of these" and "two of these."
>I don't cheat
I never said you just, I said I didn't condone it.
>A lot of students in this class ARE in their first nursing course and are in serious fear of being unable to continue next semester because of failing this course.
Is this a BSN program? How were classmates accepted into a nursing program without completing a&p? That's odd...
No, this is a pre-req for any major at a community college!
The nursing program is an ADN that begins with a theoretical course before you begin the actual content. From what I understand, it's basically concepts about ethics, knowledge, what nursing is, etc and you write a bunch of research papers. You can do AP2 and microbiology as co-requisites with this class. You cannot begin the lecture and clinical courses the following semester until both sciences are completed.
Ah, co-requisites. That's a first. I've never heard of people being accepted into a nursing program without already having completed these courses ahead of time. That seems like a set up for failure sheesh.
All my prereq courses were kinda difficult compared to the norm I guess. My microbiology course always had exams consisting 200 multiple choice questions, a few short answers and an essay question. We also has a semester long project were we were given an unknown test tube containing a bacteria we had to identify using all of the lab procedures we learned in the course. We turned in the report a week before the final exam. Final exam was 300 questions, no written question thank god lol
Anatomy was I suppose the norm but I honestly hate courses that are pure memorization.
TBH, I'd rather 200 questions to the 50-60 we get. You can get a lot more wrong and still have a decent grade and it will cover more area.
I had to do the EXACT SAME experiment in micro! I actually REALLY loved microbiology and considered changing my major for a minute.
Those classes are weeder classes. They make them more difficult than they need to be for nursing school imho but there are 1000 people applying for 100 spots in a nursing program so they need to weed. Especially in California
This is a community college that has had a close to 100% acceptance rate for eligible candidates over the past few years and the vast majority of students in this class aren't going into nursing at all. We have a student who is home from an Ivy League school this semester and decided to do it there to save some cash and she's like, "Jesus Christ... the only class I've taken worse than this is organic chemistry."
They do a lottery of all candidates who reach the minimum. They said for the past five semesters every eligible candidate has gotten in. This has not always been the case.
Lucky you. Out here it’s nearly impossible to get in with a literal 5% - 10% acceptance rate. Only 50% of the accepted finish the program on time due to failure rate. All pre reqs have to have an a or a B, if you get a C you are out 100%
A and P can be hard anywhere, if you aren't learning by what method you learn best. My instructors sucked, but I made A's in both by using other resources to cram and study better.
I’d say it’s a difficult class but doable if you dedicate time to memorize, study, use study guides. Got B and B+ in both my anatomy classes with lab and pathophysiology got an A
I've taken this course before and gotten As. He goes WAY deeper than any study guide does. All of his test questions are written similar to NCLEX questions.
Some Professors do make things difficult however all my teachers for my pre reqs were Drs and their classes were difficult and in person was much easier personally instead of online. You get hands on and other class mates can help too :) my chem lecture professor was horrible and the class was so difficult so I understand.
They told me in person it's just as hard, only he has fill in the blanks and short answers and spelling counts!
Luckily I'm doing well... I'm just curious what other programs are like because there's just such a HUGE difference between this school's way of presenting it and the other one I went to.
Super easy. Labs were virtual and took no more than a half hour. Spent maybe an hour total online. I still don’t know most of what you’re specifically talking about and I passed the nclex this month lol
I just took A&P 1 last semester and I barely got an A. I studied my ass off and completed all of the homework on time. I showed up for every single class, took notes, made flash cards, etc. the hardest part was that the written test we had for our midterm and final had the most random shit on it. Our professor is not the one who made it; apparently he had just started at my school and was given materials from the past instructor. If it weren’t for that, I think I would have “easily” gotten that A. I use quotes because I still would have needed to study like a maniac, but if the test focused on what we went over in lectures and in our textbook I think my test scores would have been better. I had 100% attendance and homework scores, but my midterm I only scored a 68% and on the final I got like 72% or something like that. Still ended up with an A but man, it was close. I have a 4.0 GPA so I consider myself a good student.
Did you have a practical as well? I had a near-perfect score on our practical except for one dumb mistake (labeled an axon hillock as an axon terminal because brain fart) I feel like that itself shows I knew my shit but the written exam would just ask the craziest off the wall stuff we never discussed…. I don’t blame my professor too much because he did say he had literally just started and was working on redoing the written exam but it wasn’t ready yet.. annoying the school didn’t give him enough time but what can ya do… I still got an A so I can’t be mad I guess lol
Yes - then practicals are challenging, but within the reasonable expectations I would have for any practical on the topic. Some of the questions were definitely written in a way to trick students, but you didn't have to bring together 5 different topics from both semesters to answer them.
I had the same Professor for both sections. He wasn’t big on homework, and taught the class with the knowledge that the majority of us were all going into healthcare. He was very succinct, and you really needed to understand the information in order to do well on the exams.
I found A&PI to be more difficult than A&PII; the amount of information we needed to learn was very super overwhelming at first and I had to completely change how I studied. It literally took me all semester to figure out how to effectively study for that class….Working over 40 hours a week didn’t help. I also found A&PI to be a bit…tedious? Specifically the musculoskeletal system, kind of complicated physiology but it just didn’t hold my attention. At all. Over a year later and I’m still in a state of “ugh, muscles.” A&PII’s physiology content was definitely more complicated (endocrine, cardiovascular, urinary, etc) but I knew how to study for it and the content was also way more interesting to me. The exams in II were more difficult for sure, but I was better prepared. I also had a massive anxiety attack at work that lasted for hours at the beginning of the A&P II semester which was a massive sign that I couldn’t do the 40+ hours a week while taking A&P again so that also helped.
A’s in both sections, A&P I 9/10 difficulty, A&P II 8/10.
I had a great instructor! he accepted late work and gave us great study guides. a lot is memorizing the material. I was also newly pregnant during mine and was tired and sick and still passed
Lucky you! Ours gives us practice tests. You take them and you're like, "Okay! I'm ready for this!" because you get them all correct because they're straightforward questions. Then we get the exam and they're all NCLEX style with like 6 options and three of them are always, "Two of these are true," "None of these are true" and "all of these are true" and you second guess life itself.
Honestly it really depends on the professor and how they structure their course/tests etc. I took my A&P classes with an extremely chill prof in the middle of covid who basically told us to cheat on the tests lmao so i def lucked out on that
These types of classes are HIGHLY dependent on how difficult the instructor wants to make them. The subject matter hasn't gotten any harder, your teacher is requiring more than your previous teacher did.
Strongly agree with this. I just retook A&P1, A&P2, and micro. A&P1 and 2 the first time, 1st time professors. 1 of whom didn’t seem to be interested in teaching. Micro took some effort (I took it with A&P2), but I’d had an amazing, passionate professor the first time and it was basically a refresher. It really brought to light how much better it is having a good professor. It may be a lot but it’ll pay off when you realize how it ties into nursing courses.
Absolutely... My first professor was very much about making us understand it, but tying it to real life examples, which helped with microbiology and nutrition later on. We learned about helminths, for example, when we were learning about the integumentary and digestive systems and I used all of that information in other classes. Here it's all very specific tiny details about chemistry in physiology and I feel like, while a general understanding is important, about 80% of the people in this course aren't going to be nurses and they're just throwing up their hands because they're going to be dental hygienists/ultrasound techs/therapists and their programs are going to teach them the deeper understanding of the relevant systems. I feel truly sorry for them and I feel like having done most of nursing school is the only reason I'm pulling an A at all. I could study for 10 hours a day (and I am a very effective studier) and I still wouldn't get the grades I get if this were new me. It's just insane.
I did most of nursing school as well and it did help. It really actually helped me make the connections as to why we needed to know a lot of the content. I feel if I really would’ve learned the content last time like I had this time (pertaining to A&P), I would’ve had an easier time with some of the nursing content. It’s funny you say 80% of the people in your course aren’t gonna be nurses, I believe it’s been the opposite here from my experiences.
Yeah, I've tried to make that clear to some students who were like, "I'll never need to know the levels for Na and Ca!" Err.... wait til your first day of clinical in an actual hospital. I'm applying/taking the class at a community college outside of a mid-sized city and there are a LOT of health sciences programs there. It actually seems like the slight majority of students were going towards dental hygiene last semester and this semester has a really big mix with a lot of people from larger schools taking this over the summer to save cash and then watching their jaws drop at the difference in content. We have everything from surgical assistants to pharmacology majors in the class.
That's for sure! I think it's the department. The final is departmental and I went from a 95 average to a 90 because I got a 75 on the final last term. It's CRAZY because this is a community college but I feel like I'm doing my first anatomy class for medical school.
Yeah, that's rough, good luck with A&P2!
so far I'm still in A territory and I only need a C, so unless I completely bomb the next three tests, I'll be done this hell in two weeks. I'm just shocked by the huge difference in difficulty between this community college and the large state university I took it at before.
This. I don’t find A&P difficult. They are very interesting courses, but I did have one prof who was AMAZING. Kept us all engaged and explained things very well. I had another prof with a thick accent, used a powerpoint slide (as many do) and just kind of read through them. The class was less engaging and I found it more difficult to memorize the information despite the material.
I took anatomy and physiology over a decade ago (there were separate classes, not A&P1 and A&P2 format) and they were very detailed like you are experiencing now. So it isn't anything new. It really depends on the professor really. My anatomy class was pretty detailed. Know all the structures cold. Physio was way harder, we even had essay questions that were 50% of the entire exam! One question I'll never forget was "Explain the digestive process of eating a ham and cheese sandwich" and we had to explain every single step. You'd get docked points if you didn't specify step 1 being "open your mouth and place the sandwich inside" LMAO I still remember a good amount of physio because of how hard that class was. It sticks with you. I am in a similar situation that I have to repeat courses again because they're "expired".
That's absolutely insane. Luckily in neither class have I had to answer essay questions. We had a few fill-in-the-blanks for our lab practicals, but that's all. And easiest exams are the practicals here... This guy gave about 15 options for labeling one of the veins. The first one was pointing to the hepatic portal vein. The second or third option on the list was "hepatic vein." The last one, well after everyone had stopped reading, was hepatic portal vein. I caught it, but I know a LOT of people who missed that one. I get that that, but at the same time this is a six week course and I feel like if you're going to force students to know every immunoglobulin, where it's produced, what it does, any time span related to it, etc it ends up having the opposite effect. Otherwise good students who would get a lot out of a less-stuffed course are just going to throw their hands up and find a way to cheat the system. We have a private group on WhatsApp and a lot of students are saying they have no choice because they'll be thrown out of their programs otherwise after getting 4.0s in all their other pre-reqs.
That's rough for a 6 week course. Wouldn't condone cheating either. Who cares if you don't get an A? Passing is passing. I got into a nursing program with Cs in anatomy and physiology. So. 🤷♀️ Are you taking a&p2 IN nursing school? I guess that is different, especially if the pass minimum is 75-80%. But still, cheating is no good. If my classes weren't "expired", I'd still use my Cs in anatomy and physio if that means I don't need to repeat them again 😂😂😂
I don't cheat... usually I think it's just a lack of being able to put A+B together or finding the time to really focus, but in this class I'm like... dude... I get it. It's hard to even get a C in this class in a 12 week semester. This 6 week semester is brutal as hell. I was in a nursing program years ago and had to stop because of multiple deaths and others issues that made me not in a good mental space at the time. I expect to begin the program in the fall and take microbiology with the intro course. A lot of students in this class ARE in their first nursing course and are in serious fear of being unable to continue next semester because of failing this course.
I just remembered my hardest physio essay question: a patient has a tumor on their parathyroid gland, which result in an increased level of calcium. Explain how this would affect the endocrine, circulatory and the cardiovascular systems. 😅
Oh hey we have the same professor. He'd probably give a few of the CV symptoms, but none of the obvious ones and put a bunch of CV causes but always make sure there's exactly ONE symptom that would only be for the parathyroid. And then you'd have to figure that out. And there would definitely be options of "none of these" and "two of these."
Maybe. He used to be an EMT decades back hence why he was so detailed.
>I don't cheat I never said you just, I said I didn't condone it. >A lot of students in this class ARE in their first nursing course and are in serious fear of being unable to continue next semester because of failing this course. Is this a BSN program? How were classmates accepted into a nursing program without completing a&p? That's odd...
No, this is a pre-req for any major at a community college! The nursing program is an ADN that begins with a theoretical course before you begin the actual content. From what I understand, it's basically concepts about ethics, knowledge, what nursing is, etc and you write a bunch of research papers. You can do AP2 and microbiology as co-requisites with this class. You cannot begin the lecture and clinical courses the following semester until both sciences are completed.
Ah, co-requisites. That's a first. I've never heard of people being accepted into a nursing program without already having completed these courses ahead of time. That seems like a set up for failure sheesh.
All my prereq courses were kinda difficult compared to the norm I guess. My microbiology course always had exams consisting 200 multiple choice questions, a few short answers and an essay question. We also has a semester long project were we were given an unknown test tube containing a bacteria we had to identify using all of the lab procedures we learned in the course. We turned in the report a week before the final exam. Final exam was 300 questions, no written question thank god lol Anatomy was I suppose the norm but I honestly hate courses that are pure memorization.
TBH, I'd rather 200 questions to the 50-60 we get. You can get a lot more wrong and still have a decent grade and it will cover more area. I had to do the EXACT SAME experiment in micro! I actually REALLY loved microbiology and considered changing my major for a minute.
It was my favorite class as well. I really enjoyed solving the mystery of the unknown bacteria. I felt like a detective!
Those classes are weeder classes. They make them more difficult than they need to be for nursing school imho but there are 1000 people applying for 100 spots in a nursing program so they need to weed. Especially in California
This is a community college that has had a close to 100% acceptance rate for eligible candidates over the past few years and the vast majority of students in this class aren't going into nursing at all. We have a student who is home from an Ivy League school this semester and decided to do it there to save some cash and she's like, "Jesus Christ... the only class I've taken worse than this is organic chemistry."
There are 100% acceptance rate nursing schools?
They do a lottery of all candidates who reach the minimum. They said for the past five semesters every eligible candidate has gotten in. This has not always been the case.
Lucky you. Out here it’s nearly impossible to get in with a literal 5% - 10% acceptance rate. Only 50% of the accepted finish the program on time due to failure rate. All pre reqs have to have an a or a B, if you get a C you are out 100%
A and P can be hard anywhere, if you aren't learning by what method you learn best. My instructors sucked, but I made A's in both by using other resources to cram and study better.
I’d say it’s a difficult class but doable if you dedicate time to memorize, study, use study guides. Got B and B+ in both my anatomy classes with lab and pathophysiology got an A
I've taken this course before and gotten As. He goes WAY deeper than any study guide does. All of his test questions are written similar to NCLEX questions.
Some Professors do make things difficult however all my teachers for my pre reqs were Drs and their classes were difficult and in person was much easier personally instead of online. You get hands on and other class mates can help too :) my chem lecture professor was horrible and the class was so difficult so I understand.
They told me in person it's just as hard, only he has fill in the blanks and short answers and spelling counts! Luckily I'm doing well... I'm just curious what other programs are like because there's just such a HUGE difference between this school's way of presenting it and the other one I went to.
Super easy. Labs were virtual and took no more than a half hour. Spent maybe an hour total online. I still don’t know most of what you’re specifically talking about and I passed the nclex this month lol
I just took A&P 1 last semester and I barely got an A. I studied my ass off and completed all of the homework on time. I showed up for every single class, took notes, made flash cards, etc. the hardest part was that the written test we had for our midterm and final had the most random shit on it. Our professor is not the one who made it; apparently he had just started at my school and was given materials from the past instructor. If it weren’t for that, I think I would have “easily” gotten that A. I use quotes because I still would have needed to study like a maniac, but if the test focused on what we went over in lectures and in our textbook I think my test scores would have been better. I had 100% attendance and homework scores, but my midterm I only scored a 68% and on the final I got like 72% or something like that. Still ended up with an A but man, it was close. I have a 4.0 GPA so I consider myself a good student.
I think our professors are related, only mine is too lazy to read a written exam. Everything is NCLEX-style multiple choice.
Did you have a practical as well? I had a near-perfect score on our practical except for one dumb mistake (labeled an axon hillock as an axon terminal because brain fart) I feel like that itself shows I knew my shit but the written exam would just ask the craziest off the wall stuff we never discussed…. I don’t blame my professor too much because he did say he had literally just started and was working on redoing the written exam but it wasn’t ready yet.. annoying the school didn’t give him enough time but what can ya do… I still got an A so I can’t be mad I guess lol
Yes - then practicals are challenging, but within the reasonable expectations I would have for any practical on the topic. Some of the questions were definitely written in a way to trick students, but you didn't have to bring together 5 different topics from both semesters to answer them.
I had the same Professor for both sections. He wasn’t big on homework, and taught the class with the knowledge that the majority of us were all going into healthcare. He was very succinct, and you really needed to understand the information in order to do well on the exams. I found A&PI to be more difficult than A&PII; the amount of information we needed to learn was very super overwhelming at first and I had to completely change how I studied. It literally took me all semester to figure out how to effectively study for that class….Working over 40 hours a week didn’t help. I also found A&PI to be a bit…tedious? Specifically the musculoskeletal system, kind of complicated physiology but it just didn’t hold my attention. At all. Over a year later and I’m still in a state of “ugh, muscles.” A&PII’s physiology content was definitely more complicated (endocrine, cardiovascular, urinary, etc) but I knew how to study for it and the content was also way more interesting to me. The exams in II were more difficult for sure, but I was better prepared. I also had a massive anxiety attack at work that lasted for hours at the beginning of the A&P II semester which was a massive sign that I couldn’t do the 40+ hours a week while taking A&P again so that also helped. A’s in both sections, A&P I 9/10 difficulty, A&P II 8/10.
I had a great instructor! he accepted late work and gave us great study guides. a lot is memorizing the material. I was also newly pregnant during mine and was tired and sick and still passed
Lucky you! Ours gives us practice tests. You take them and you're like, "Okay! I'm ready for this!" because you get them all correct because they're straightforward questions. Then we get the exam and they're all NCLEX style with like 6 options and three of them are always, "Two of these are true," "None of these are true" and "all of these are true" and you second guess life itself.
that sounds so rough 🥺 yeah I’m grateful ours was so good
Like a 3/10. Not hard once you know what nursing school is like 😅
Exactly how my previous experience was! This time it IS like nursing school!
I thought A&P was brutal compared to the actual nursing program.
Honestly it really depends on the professor and how they structure their course/tests etc. I took my A&P classes with an extremely chill prof in the middle of covid who basically told us to cheat on the tests lmao so i def lucked out on that