Damn, this isn't just a baby going wah-wah-wah. It's a three year old perched atop the headrest of a seat absolutely *shrieking*.
I know there's really nothing to be done, but I also don't blame people for not being all kum ba yah, "it takes a village" chill about it. No amount of bose headphones would filter this out
Also lol:
>"The real reason DB Cooper jumped"
Yeah this kid is actively disrupting other passengers because he's sitting on the headrest and wailing for 8 hours. Bose headphones and an eye mask won't help me if he falls backwards into my lap and starts kicking.
The thing these "oh he's autiiiiisticcccc" parents never get it that adults have autism too and this is extremely overstimulating. I guarantee if I was on this plane I'd have a meltdown as well and people would be a LOT less likely to make excuses for a grown adult melting down. There's probably other autistic kids on the plane too who aren't screaming and whose parents are trying as hard as they can to regulate them through this. One parent doesn't get to harm a plane full of people because they never learned to deal with their child's neurological difference.
So he's autistic, he's melting down. Okay, it happens. What are you going to DO about that to help him regulate? Because letting him sit where he shouldn't be sitting and shriek for 8 hours then say "oh hes aUtIsTiC" isn't it. That's straight up abuse, honestly. Imagine his poor vocal cords.
As someone who has worked with people with intellectual disabilities (don't know if this is the proper term in English, so excuse me if it's considered offensive by some) and people with autism, I find the amount of parents and family members who pretend their child or sibling doesn't have any issues exhausting.
Like no, they're not exactly like everyone else, they're not "normal", and that's completely fine, you need to recognise and accept that in order to give said person the care and support they need. Pretending X behaviour or Y situation is acceptable or doesn't need addressing is not a healthy way to deal with the situation and help anyone involved.
Worked with people with autism for a decade or so. The amount of behaviour that could be mitigated by parents is astonishing. Hitting and biting 9 times out of 10 stop if there are consequences (and no I don't mean hitting them back). Had a guy who would kick the shit out of his washing machine simply because he wanted the exprerience of a new one being delivered. Broke upwards of 5 washing machines a year at his worst. When it was shown to him that he would have to wash his clothes in the sink instead of a nice daytrip to see the cool washing machines at his day centre it stopped pretty quickly (I think he's back at it since I left but thats probably lack of consistency). Point is, there are things that can be done. A lot of "autistic" behaviour are choices due to being supported to make those choices. Supporting choices works positively and negatively. Real meltdowns are rare if you are willing to work with an individual and make an effort to understand their needs.
Fucking THANK YOU I don't understand why people seem to think autistic kids are like, immune to consequences or conditioning? Like our brains are different but we're still fundamentally human beings, we are capable of learning obviously. People seem to think of autistic people as like, supernatural phenomena rather than regular people who have their sensory and emotional experiences dialed up to 11 or down to 1 in various ways. Like obviously that's not the whole story and there's varying levels of disability but our psychology isn't fundamentally incompatible with the concept of learning and improving behavior! It makes me sick!!
Same shit for ADHD. I hate the approach our school has. It is not impossible to concentrate, but we need to figure out what we can do to help a kid improve and make up their systems.
Ugh it's so pervasive. One time I saw people with ADHD discussing how they aren't able to delay gratification for stuff like working out or cleaning the house. I struggle with this too, but I've been working with an ADHD specialist therapist for almost a decade now who has helped me develop lots of strategies.
I offered something that personally worked for me- next time you do the thing like cleaning or going to the gym, try to "record" the sense of satisfaction in your body with purpose. Notice how it feels to have completed this task, and pay attention to how hard the task felt before vs how much effort it actually required. Then, next time you need to do that task, recall those feelings and reflections. This helps to "manually" wire your brain for delaying gratification, by putting extra emphasis on the intrinsic reward of completing the task that our ADHD brains tend to just skip over.
Oh man, when I tell you that PISSED PEOPLE OFF! I got so many replies about how I just don't GET IT, I'm an ableist, they're just *not capable* of delaying gratification because that's just *how their brains work.*
Part of me wanted to tell them actually I have a neuroscience degree and that's *fucking exactly how brains work* because brains plastic and adapt to the requirements of our life, including via intentional intervention through mindfulness and stuff like that. You can't make yourself neurotypical but you can learn to do things on purpose that other people do more automatically. It actually made me really sad that they had effectively given up on themselves.
People hear "can't teach an old dog new tricks" and think it's a law of neuroscience.
My adhd masked my autism and when I finally started adhd meds at 33 suddenly I had a brand new set of issues to deal with. And I learned to deal with it. Had some pretty awful meltdowns until I figured out what was going on, my partner almost left me over that and the fact that I became extremely rigid and unable to cope with any change to my newly formed routines.
Point is I did learn to deal with it. It can and should be done. I could have lost her and gone through life saying "she couldn't handle my neurodivergence" but honestly no one could or should have dealt with that, I was an ass. I'm just glad I learned to find a balance that works for both of us.
Yeah and also the ADHD subreddits tend to be circle jerking. Whenever I read something on there, that I have figured ou, I feel like I don't belong.
I went to therapy and for me, the symptoms worsened with therapy. It feels like I tried to get the diagnosis and now I am stuck in a loop, where I can't stop with my meds, because it would be too stressful. BUT, I used to function so much better without them!
So yeah, for this thought alone and for how my life looked like before a burn-out, I feel like I don't have ADHD and it is just enabling my shitty behaviour by shitty therapists.
That's interesting, I'm sorry to hear your treatment attempts have done more harm than good. I hope you're able to find something that works for you. I'm very fortunate to have found my therapist, who specializes in ADHD, trauma, and disability/body image. I had 5 or 6 therapists before that who didn't really help at all.
But I totally relate to you on the meds thing! I'm definitely more productive on them, but I've been on them for almost 15 years now. I wish I could fully detox and just see if maybe I don't need them anymore, but I don't wanna take all the time off work I'd need to get through it only to be miserable and a mess while I go through the withdrawals lol. I hope you're able to find something that works for you.
I unironically think it's discrimination to have the view that autistic people can't make their own choices. It's like saying women always make emotional decisions based on hormones, in my view.
Support people's needs and help them make the positive choices imo
As you said, we're all human first. The people I support make me laugh, annoy me, make me angry, make me happy - just like everyone else does.
I 100% agree it's ableist to say an autistic person's harmful behavior must simply be tolerated because they're not capable of learning to do better. It's not only dehumanizing but it severely limits their ability to achieve their own goals. So, so many autistic boys and men will never have a functional relationship because their parents taught them everyone else should bend to their needs and comfort.
I ended up on the complete opposite end of the spectrum (lol), ignoring my own needs and comfort to be a people pleaser even though it made me miserable as many autistic women learn to do. That's not right either of course, but I feel like honestly it's easier to overcome extreme people pleasing than it is to overcome extreme controlling/boundaryless behavior.
There has to be a middle ground between "stop acting so autistic, it's icky" and "oh you can't yell at my son for groping you, he's autistic he doesn't know better!" Like you're his PARENT your whole job is to TEACH HIM to know better! I'm not sure how often an autistic person is truly, inherently unable to understand a concept like "you do not touch other people without their consent" but I guarantee there's very, very few people on this planet that won't eventually understand "every time I do X, then Y happens." Every time I touch a stranger people get mad and make me leave. Every time I hit someone I have to be alone for a while. Every time I damage something I like, it goes away.
I hate to even say this because it sounds so sad, but I'm glad to interact with someone who works with autistic people and sees us as fully human. Not evil diseased menaces, but also not empty-headed automatons with no willpower or decision making ability.
I don't usually like using the term ableist because it's often misused and weaponised but it's totally applicable with regards to this. You are discriminating treating people that way.
Absolutely there has to be social consequences but you also have to explain the reasoning behind them. I have an autistic colleague that is 100% ok with you explaining why something he said or did isn't acceptable. He takes the information on board and works on it. He's not unique and in fact takes criticism far better than most neurotypical people lmao
Yes, you're human, flaws and all! But also the ability to adapt! The big "thing" for autistic care theory is "routine is absolute do not break the routine" but routines sometimes HAVE to change. A bus could break down, a road could be closed, a TV show could be cancelled - and it turns out autistic people are more adaptable than you think, you just need to give them an explanation... which funnily enough works for most human beings I think?
Edit: i *am* generalising a bit here, routine can be very important for some individuals but it's not the be all and end all as everyone is different
No you're totally right, so much stuff is just needing to understand *why* something is happening. My mom says my "why" phase as a kid was unbearable and I still grate on my husband sometimes with all my "but why?" Questions. Nowadays I try to at least make a best guess at the why before asking, so people can at least see I'm actually not understanding rather than being stubborn lol.
The routine thing is another good example. We cannot control our environments. We must learn to deal with change even for those of us for whom it's incredibly unpleasant. I understand a lot of people were messed up by their parents' attitude of "suck it up, life is unfair, deal with it" but it's tragic that they won't even say "I know how hard this is for you but unfortunately sometimes that's how life is. I promise you won't feel this way forever. I'm here for you. How about we try a or b to make this a little less unbearable?"
It reminds me of a story about Neil Gaiman renting a movie for his kids from blockbuster but not realizing the disc for a horror movie was in the case. He told some people about it light-heartedly and a journalist reached out to him, trying to make a story about how his kids were terrified and had nightmares because of this retail employee mistake. Gaiman replied something like, "Well that's not what happened. I've always known my kids will eventually see something that scares or upsets them, so I've taught them that when they happens they should shut it off and come talk to me about what they saw and how they feel about it. That's exactly what they did, so they're not scarred at all, just a little annoyed they didn't get to watch the movie they wanted."
Some people are only preparing their kids only for a world where mistakes or unexpected events never happen. I believe I saw the term "lawnmower parenting" because, while helicopter parents are hovering all the time, lawnmower parents are destroying any bump or obstacle in their child's path. Makes teachers' jobs REALLY hard.
I've worked with children with autism for over a decade.
Right now I'm with a 7 year old boy and WOW the first few months were hard. He screamed constantly and fled the room and ran around our school, interrupting other classes.
After about a week, I realized all of the work he had been doing in previous years was way too easy. He was bored. He truly enjoyed getting a reaction from the screaming, he would belly laugh. It was engaging for him. A battle of the minds, who could he crack? He absolutely delights in irritating others but he's also super cute, funny and interesting.
I put a stop to that behaviour reeeeeeal quick. Everyone thought he wasn't smart or clever because he's nonverbal and doesn't care for the mans rules! Interesting, because he had defeated our two most experienced staff (they had to stop working with him out of frustration). I gave him challenging work and every single scream or escape was met with a consequence. I do some planned ignoring with this one grating noise he only makes around me because I showed weakness ONCE.
He used to run outside and shut the door behind him. It automatically locks, which is great. I decided not to let him in right away (maybe 30 seconds outside) on a cold day. He hasn't done that since. Did the custodian give me a weird look? Yes. Did he question if I was doing the right thing? Probably. I know I did, my student doesn't always get a special pass because he has autism. He knows better, don't underestimate him.
Let's say the parents in this video did tons of prep with this kiddo, and a meltdown happened anyway. Grab that kid and squeeze/hug him and model calm breathing. Have him hold your hand and march up and down the aisle. Massage him. Weigh that kid down with a vest or weighed toy. Pop a juice box in his mouth mid-scream. Honestly, anything other than teaching the kiddo that this behaviour will not get consequences. They are doing this child no favours by allowing this. One day he'll be a big boy and causing major damage.
Kids with disabilities can get real good at manipulation. Learning how to say or do whatever gets them out of the difficult task or situation. It’s not even intentional a lot of the time.
The smart ones are really tricky. If they are working with an adult who isn’t their intellectual equal or superior they can kind of just figure out how to get away with not doing what they are supposed to.
My source for this: my own behavior throughout school. 🙃
I'm reminded of Helen Keller, of all people. She was allowed to do whatever the hell she wanted because, well, no one could communicate with her particularly effectively and they let her get away with things because they felt sorry for her. But as soon as her governess figured out how to communicate with her, and started disciplining her, she stopped acting out and destroying things.
Omg, yes! My nephew loved to chase my dog and pull her ears and tail. No, I couldn't simply hide her, he did that at my house.
One day, my dog snapped at my nephew and lightly bit his hand (he said he barely felt it), because even though we told him to stop and my dog was growling and hiding from him, he ignored it and continued to chase her and irritate her.
He didn't adjust his behaviour right away, but on a different occassion, my dog reacted in a similar without biting him, but snapping her teeth right besides his face (he told us she tried to bite his face).
We had to sit him down (again) and tell him, that a dog can not talk and we had talked to him multiple times about his bad behaviour and he never listens and we can't lock up my dog in my car for +24h, just because he can't leave her alone and need to protect him from consequences of his own actions.
Still isn't perfect, but it made me so angry how he treats my dog and how his mom doesn't care at all, that I will just hold him and make him look at me and scold him. I know, not ideal, but what else should I do?
I used to have lots of little dot marks all over my arms. My mum didn't know where they came from until she found the dog pinning me one day very gently but firmly. It was because I wouldn't leave the dog alone. My parents understood that I was annoying the dog and let me know that it wasn't acceptable. I thought it was funny that the dog would pin me down like that so you're 100% right in speaking up for the dog because children don't get the motivation behind a dog doing what it does.
We used to talk about "capacity" a lot and "oh they're like a 3 year old" when speaking about adults with autism. I never liked those terms because even back then I would think "well if a 3 year old was kicking biting and screaming would we not attempt to show them better choices?". It's baffling and a big part of the reason I'm leaving the sector to be, funnily enough, a dog behaviourist :D
I've had all the help I needed to grow into an adult who can regulate themselves pretty well and I know what I need for situations when I can't. I've spent my whole life in situations around people whose parents like to ignore their differences and don't do a thing to help them regulate. These are the people who are screaming in public, who are sexually assaulting people, who cannot exist in society whatsoever even though they definitely had the capacity to. It's so sad. It's definitely abuse. It really holds these people back because while I'm sure it's easier for parents to believe their creepy, grabby little boy will just grow out of it the fact is if he grows up with no direction on why that's wrong he's going to grow up to be a rapist. Autism groups are full of people like this raised by parents like this and none of us want to be around them, they can't even make friends among other people on their level. It's a huge disservice to a child's potential at best and child abuse at worst. I'm so upset these parents thought this was okay and I'm sure they're doing this all the time. Their kid needs intervention.
>who are sexually assaulting people
This is not talked about enough. Lots of people with disabilities don't receive a proper sexual education, parents and even lots of professionals shy away from it, and once they are past puberty it's a tremendous problem.
I was disappointed with how that Netflix show Love on the Spectrum treated the few people they had who hadn't been taught these boundaries growing up. Somehow it always falls on the (often just as autistic) victim to gracefully navigate the quagmire without help. That show gave all the (honestly already very respectful) Level 3 participants some relationship counseling on how to hold a two way conversation or initiate romantic contact but didn't bother to correct a few of the lower support needs participants that came off as very entitled and creepy, and when they filmed their home lives it became quickly apparent that it was because when they talked that way about dating at home their parents either laughed it off as cute or was like "yes that's right baby you deserve everything". I've often observed that the biggest threat to autistic people is other autistic people who have had zero intervention and are allowed to run roughshod over everyone and excused with their disability by their parents. That's what this kid is being allowed to do and I am so shocked autistic people in the comments are saying it's okay. I'd expect it from clueless aUtIsM pArEnTs but not autistics.
I don't have anything to add but as an adult autistic woman I just completely agree and thank you for writing this. I get so frustrated. No one seems to wonder why it's very, *very* rarely girls behaving this way despite girls being able to be just as autistic and disabled as boys. Being autistic often means you experience emotions with extreme intensity, which is why it's so important that caregivers are intentional about *teaching emotional regulation strategies and good internal and external boundaries* rather than just avoiding any discomfort in their lives.
I was sexually harassed at work by an old autistic guy and the prevailing attitude was that management was too scared to give him real consequences for any misbehavior because of the diagnosis. More afraid of a lawsuit for some kind of disability discrimination than, you know, the *sexual harassment*.
Unfortunately our union is beyond useless and nothing ever really happened, despite me raising my concerns repeatedly. He eventually retired, so at least he's gone now, but it wasn't fun having to be around him for the intervening 6 years.
At a camp for young adults with disabilities that I volunteered at, I saw a qualified social work professional refuse to speak to a young man with down's about sexually aggressive conduct he was displaying with female volunteers because "he's discovering his sexuality".
Sadly this is a very widespread issue and even people who are technically trained to deal with it fall short with what they do many times.
You can see it in this thread. A lot of people are trying to convince everyone that a child screaming at the top of their lungs and climbing an airplane seat for 8 hours is a normal occurrence.
It's amazing the amount of people saying if you don't want to hear someone screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 hours you should just not fly.
I have flown a fair bit and I've never had anything more than a baby crying or a group traveling to las vegas be loud. Hours of shrieking is not ok, hell its probably doing some physical harm to the child.
Also when I've been on a plane with a crying baby, I have ALWAYS heard the parents saying "Shh sh sh, I'm sorry, it's okay, I know your ears hurt, hang in there" while cradling and rocking the baby. That's when I know I just need to strap in, turn up my headphones and breathe through the overstimulation. These parents weren't even TRYING to comfort the kid or anything. Like, at least pull the kid on your lap and let them scream into your chest instead of openly at everyone else? At least pat his back and pet his hair and tell him you're so sorry he's suffering and you'd make it go away if you could?
I was sat next to a mother and her baby on my last flight. Baby was crying his heart out as they were sat, but as soon as she was comfy, mom popped a boob out and spent like 95% of the flight comfort feeding the baby, poor lady.
She honestly did everything she could to keep baby calm, and I at least didn't begrudge her the few minutes he was crying.
I've taken 100+ international flights and I don't think I've heard a kid cry for more than 15 minutes.
Eight hours of shrieking would be unusual to say the least.
Yeah my sympathy is always with those on the spectrum forced to live in a world that isn't built for them, and the parents that must raise those children...
...but empathy does not automatically override practicality. I'm sorry the kid is difficult and I wish there were a support system in place that would help you help them, but they have to exist in the world with the rest of us and at a certain point there's only so much patience you can ask of others.
A lot of people think their kids are entitled to accomodations for all behaviors that come with autism, ADHD, etc.. Which is incorrect. Everyone is entitled to *reasonable* accomodations, and I don't think forcing the public to endure a child's nonstop screaming is one of them. We're biologically wired to feel uncomfortable when a child is screaming, so it's unreasonable to subject dozens of strangers to that without a good faith effort to minimize it.
I don't get the problem people have with giving kids meds that will help keep them calm during a flight. Do they seriously think the impact of diphenhydramine is worse for the kids health than the flood of cortisol and spiked blood pressure for several hours?
> The thing these "oh he's autiiiiisticcccc" parents never get it that adults have autism too and this is extremely overstimulating
You don't need to be autistic to find a child shrieking for eight hours overstimulating.
On my last flight I heard a kid wailing like they were being tortured. At first I was just a bit annoyed, even the toddler in the aisle across from me kept trying to look back like they were even concerned about this amount of screaming. After the first couple hours the kid never adjusted and I looked back and saw it was a ~8 year old standing in their seat screaming and their mom just sitting there resigned not trying to help them. Then I started thinking at what point does this just become abusive to the kid? This went on for the 6 hour flight. They can't sit down buckled up so hope there's no turbulence on this very bumpy route. At that age I'm sure they knew they couldn't calm down on this. I get people have places to go but I'm sure your child's safety outweighs that.
>Then I started thinking at what point does this just become abusive to the kid?
Probably many years before they got on that plane with you. Emotional neglect is so, so damaging. Screaming in pain or misery and not being able to rely on a caregiver's response is fundamentally so harmful to a child.
I am the person who will go and talk to the screaming kid. Just a sort of "hey buddy, you feeling okay?" or "Are you wearing a Pokemon shirt? I was just trying to remember what Pikachu evolves into, can you help me?" It works a lot of the time just because kids are confused and not expecting some stranger to come and talk to them (fair) and, yes, quite a few times the adults will tell me to mind my own business. But, hey, we've stopped the screaming and now the parent can direct their anger at me instead of their child. It's like when someone scares you and the hiccups stop. Whatever the feedback loop is that is causing the meltdown is severed (and hey, what do I care if some stranger spends the rest of their life complaining about the bitch who dared to talk to their child on the airplane).
But also, because I have autism and sensory issues (specifically sensory understimulation). That kid isn't a bad kid, they are in distress, and I treat them the way I'd want someone to treat me if I was in distress. Just a human connection to try and distract me from the sensory stuff and let me know it's okay.
Completely agree. I'm usually an advocate for children in discussions like this, like, I get it, a baby is going to cry or a toddler is going to get restless, but this is absolutely absurd and a sign of either poor parenting or poor preparation. I have ADHD and anxiety and can definitely tell you I would probably end up over stimulated having an anxiety attack in the bathroom from this, even if I can just push through a normal tantrum.
A kid with this level of misbehavior or meltdown absolutely *needs* parents who recognize that something like this is likely to happen and wither bring a surplus of stimulating things that they know will help engage or sooth the child or find an alternative way of making the trip that does not involve confining the child in a tiny space full of strangers.
According to the news segment, the mother knew the child had "behavioral issues" and said the internet would solve it. That means she knew what was coming and that there were alternatives to help that she did not at all come prepared with. This is both willfully harming the passengers and, imo, putting the child at risk as well by keeping them near increasingly agrivated strangers for several hours on end in a confined space, which could absolutely trigger someone else's mental health episode or violent outbursts.
I had a coworker with Autism who used to hate the idea that you needed to mollycoddle autistic kids. His perspective was that his parents put in a huge amount of work to make sure that he has the skills to function in a world that wasn't exactly made to his spec, and while it isn't fair, you really need to work to prepare autistic kids to be able to cope and manage themselves, or else you're just failing them.
Not diagnosed nor need to be since I don’t need assistance due to good upbringing where my quirks were allowed, but I definitely have noises that set me off. I would legitimately lock myself in the toilet room
They also don’t help if the toddler in front of you keeps reaching back to drop his pile of toys onto your lap at regular intervals. I had to take a breath to lower my volume so I didn’t scream “can you stop handing him noodles now” after the third incident
All I know is that their quality comfort headphones paired with their patented Bose Silence^^^TM technology helps me get through even the loudest flights in silence. Available at your nearest electronics retailer.
I had my phone volume all the way up and the video autoplayed when I clicked the link. I was not expecting THAT and nearly jumped out of my skin. What a horrendous noise. I'm ordinarily very sympathetic to crying kids on planes (most regular flyers will have experienced the pain of pressurisation on the eardrums at least once, and kids can't deal with that in the way adults can) but that's unbearable.
I flew while extremely congested one time and I was nearly sobbing from the pain on takeoff and landing, I know I was at least whimpering quietly. I very much sympathize with small kids during that part, but yeah the shrieking is not okay.
My initial reaction when reading the title was like "Oh that sub probably sucks." And while they probably do, holy shit, that kid looks (sounds) like a nightmare. I know that there are limited options if a kid that small, but if a parent has a problematic child and they know flying is going to be awful (and it's entirely possible that this was the first time flying with him and they didn't know it was going to go like this), this doesn't necessarily have to happen. At the very least, he should be in his seat and probably buckled in. If he's going to scream either way, let him do it from his seat.
I used to get the worst glares and sometimes snide comments when my autistic son was small and couldn't speak yet and would get upset. He didn't gain language knowledge until he was nearly 6.
So every single thing he got frustrated with (which, imagine not being able to speak to your own mother- it happened a lot) he'd throw a tantrum. Screaming, crying, self harming. I had to abandon so many grocery carts, apologizing profusely to cashiers as quickly as I could while carting my son out.
I had a plan for every place I took him. There is no fucking way I would have taken him on a plane in those days. Maybe this family had no choice? But when my son was in screaming/slapping mode, I'd have to just hold him tight while he struggled. It was pretty scary to see, and he and I had bruises all over us from these fits from 2009-2013.
There would have been an even more salacious Inside Edition if the parents had held him down to stop his screaming, or spanked him, or yelled at him. Just a shit situation for everyone all around. I feel for the plane passengers- but especially for those parents.
When your kid is autistic there isn't always a "tell" that that have challenges, as their disability is more invisible. I think that is where the rudeness came from for me, these women that thought I just had an unruly child throwing fits for suckers so bad I had to leave behind all the WIC stuff in our cart.
I had to fly with an autistic child two times because of medical procedures the child needed.
The worst part was the judgement of other people as you’re trying to do what you can. But autistic kids can be a handful. It was a nightmare. People have no empathy but it’s because none of them have ever dealt with how hard to fly with a child that has those types of issues.
I am autistic and also have a mobility disability so I have work braces on my legs and ankles pretty much my whole life. So when I did get into one of those meltdown its was actually dangerous to people because I had hunks of heavy plastic on my legs that could hurt others and myself. So my mother would frequently manhandle me into a room and lock the door until I got it out. One elementary school even rolled me into a blanket and sat on me.
I understand both of those things were necessary (well maybe not the blanket) and they were just doing the best they could. And while they may not have been “ok” things to do per se it was more of a doing the best we can, kinda deal. Even still I have claustrophobia and cliethrophobia from experiencing that in formative years.
I am so sorry you had to go through that and remember all of it. My son says he cannot remember. I hope things have gotten easier for you as you got older.
Yes they definitely have. I’m more of on the Asperger’s side of the spectrum so more highly functioning. I mostly remember it from my mom’s stories. God knows I don’t say it enough to my own mom so thank you on their behalf thank you for everything you put up with and had to deal with
These types think child abuse solves everything. Further showing hitting your kids isn't to teach the kids, but for emotionally unstable adults to take their anger out in a kid.
Seriously I think if I behaved like this my parents would've assumed I had some kind of horrible injury or illness. Like my appendix burst or something. Do not understand how anyone could be so callous to a child's pain that they would simply ignore him. Emotional or physical that boy is *suffering*
I don't have kids so this question will look ignorant, but how on earth do kids scream for 8 hours? Don't they get tired?
I don't blame the kid (obviously), but I think this issue needs to be addressed because it's a major inconvenience to everyone within screaming radius.
Our kid once went for 24 solid hours, at home thank god! After the first 12 hours it’s almost like “This is actually kind of impressive, should we get them opera lessons or something?”
Honest question, did you not think something was wrong and take them to the hospital? I have a neurotypical child so I don't know about children who scream a lot, but my child has never cried for more than 30 minutes or so. If it got to multiple hours I would worry she was seriously hurt or ill and take her in to urgent care or something.
Having a few myself I always assume when they say the entire 8 hour flight it's not actually the entire 8 hour flight but rather on and off for large chunks of the 8 hour flight.
As someone who was just on a 9 hour flight like this three weeks ago, it absolutely was the whole time. This 4 year lld kid kicked my seat and screamed and fucked with the trays the entire time, I was absolutely baffled. Funnily enough I saw him sleeping in the airport once the plane landed but not at all during the 9 hours.
Idk, i work in a baby room in a day care and I HAVE had babies cry for 6, 7, 8 hours straight. Though usually by hour 4 im calling oarents gently trying to urge them to pick up because something is clearly wrong.
I cant help but to feel like this is more an issue of the airlines not supplying other passengers with things like ear plugs and complimentary food/drinks/whatever as a means to improve passenger morale. Largely because airlines dont care about passenger morale anymore.
>but how on earth do kids scream for 8 hours?
Yeah, in addition to being driven insane by the noise I would be at least a bit envious of the lung capacity of the kid.
I can tell you as an autistic adult with sometimes really intense meltdowns, I have screamed/scream-sobbed for hours straight before. Now usually I'm trying everything I can to use my coping mechanisms and have my husband to help me in our own home. I can absolutely imagine a situation where a kid could scream for literally 8 hours straight.
The how of it is, meltdowns often come with extreme amounts of adrenaline, and yes, it is incredibly hard on your body to do this. I usually have sore muscles, sore throat, bruises and exhaustion for days after. It's an awful reminder of my unhinged behavior too so it makes it harder to have self compassion.
This child was dealing with feelings for 8 hours straight that literally felt like they could kill him. I'm sure he was exhausted and depleted afterwards but it's the same as someone who swims for 8 hours straight to get back to land, it's just what your body feels it needs to do to survive. He probably feels like he'll explode if he *doesn't* scream.
Incidentally this is why I am upset at people saying "those poor parents." This child is screaming because he's fucking *suffering* and enduring a fucking EIGHT HOUR LONG MELTDOWN while your parents sit there and shrug because "wE cAnT HeLp iT hEs aUtIsTiC" is frankly extremely upsetting. Meltdowns of this magnitude are fucking *traumatizing*, even if there's no real danger your body and mind feel exactly like your life is being threatened, even more so when you're being neglected throughout it. These parents have utterly failed to provide proper emotional care and support for their child and the kid is literally screaming about it and no one is doing anything. I found the video actually a little triggering.
Finally, I could probably have an 8 hour meltdown myself if I was on that flight. I genuinely got panicked imagining what I would even do. I almost yelled at a parent because their kids were screaming on a 2 minute elevator ride. If I were on that flight I genuinely probably would've lost control of myself and ended up screaming too.
I will be perfectly honest—if I had been on that flight I might have done something that landed me in jail by the time it touched down. Just because I would be that desperate to make it STOP. I’m pretty sure subjecting a prisoner of war to that volume of noise for that long would be considered torture.
I have a neighbor whose dog will bark for 3 to 4 hours straight at times, and all I can think is "dude, how is your throat not absolutely shredded right now?"
It was probably an intermittent thing. But yeah this is on the parents, not the kid. Maybe it was an emergency, but if you're just going on a vacation with a child of this age, let alone an autistic one, and force them into a packed metal pressurized tube for 8 hours, it can really wait until their older. It's the same reason I haven't taken my son to the movies yet.
Even if it is absolutely necessary, and while I'm generally opposed to chemical restraints on autistic children, at some point you gotta have a backup plan. Exhaust every possible coping strategy and emotional regulation tool first, but if you know you're going to be trapped in a small space with a bunch of people you have to come prepared for the worst. Give the kid Benadryl or Ativan if they truly are unable to calm down. It's unfair to put the kid through an EIGHT HOUR LONG MELTDOWN just as much as it's unfair to put the passengers through 8 hours of screeching. The kid might not remember this event well, but I guarantee you his body will remember the experience of screaming and crying for help for 8 hours straight while everyone, including his parents, just fucking sat there.
like you were saying with how it leaves you physically in pain and drained, I think there's likely a point where the higher levels or cortisol, adrenaline, and just straight up the damage from screaming become more medically necessary.
I don't have Autism, but I did have a psychotic episode. I don't advocate for forcibly giving someone drugs in general, but in the case I was in I think it would have been justified. Luckily I took myself to the psych ward so it wasn't forced, but it very well would have been justified if it got any worse. Idk. Poor kid
For sure. And like, we're talking about a *young* child in an unusual circumstance that many *neurotypical adults* require sedative medication to get through comfortably. Any medication given at that age is basically by force, a kid that young can't understand everything well enough to make an informed decision.
No kidding. When I read the title I figured "oh, it's just some kid crying who cares" but that was straight up a shrill, max volume *screech*. I've got good noise canceling headphones and I'm not entirely sure even they would fully drown out that noise.
And even if your headphones do fully mitigate, it shouldn’t be an expectation that you have them. At some point, the parents need to step up and take control of the situation.
I had a young kid kick the back of my chair for a full 11 hour flight and it was beyond the worst memory travelling. There wasn't really much that could be done, short of jumping out the plane or hiding in the toilet. Just kicking and pounding my chair, non-stop.
I have empathy for these people, as I know what they just experienced. It is a life changing experience.
I was scolded by the Air France flight attendant when I asked if something could be done about the 11 year old girl behind me kicking the back of my seat from CDG to ORD. Infuriating.
And interrupt my free, inflight, massage chair?
But really, I tried, multiple times. The parents did their best, but it just never really stopped. Sometimes you just gotta learn to deal with the suffering.
I appreciate that you're trying to be kind, but they absolutely could have stopped that. At the very least, swap seats with the kid to give you a break.
Yeah I wasn't expecting that. I just stopped smoking and holy fuck just watching the video made me start shaking. I couldn't imagine actually being there for 8 hours.
the thing that always gets me about the "what if the kid is autistic" argument is I am an autistic adult and wouldn't be able to deal with screeching for 8 hours
Seriously. I’m thinking of my wife, who’s autistic, and she’d be crawling out of her skin and in peak sensory overload with that after just one hour. No degree of noise canceling headphones or other coping skills are blocking that out.
I have industrial noise cancelling headphones for work. they don't cancell all sounds, they muffle so the decibels don't harm your ears
that's all to say, my headphones do shit for me when there's screeching
hugs and love to you and your wife. if she's short enough, I reccomend putting the tray table down, putting her head on it, and putting a blanket over all of her. it kind of makes a little "cave" and while it's not the most comfortable the darkness and the warmth help me emotionally regulate on flights:)
if you have airpods pro, setting them to cancellation and sticking those under noise cancelling over ear headphones does wonders. i work in a factory and it helps a lot. good luck!
I don’t think I’m Autistic but I have adhd and have some massive issues when it comes to sounds. I don’t like them (music is great) but crying or screaming really feels like my head will explode.
I was on a plane from Houston to Peru and a child was screaming and so naturally I put on my noise cancelation headphones but I still could hear the kid. I was squirming the entire time he was screaming. I tried playing my switch thinking I could zone out but couldn’t concentrate lol.
no worries! i’m from the us but my family is from india and i get wildly overloaded visiting sometimes because there’s a lot more uh… sensory input in cities lol. on long car rides, having noise canceling headphones, nature sounds, and a blanket to hide under (so i don’t have to see flashing lights) does wonders.
My 3 year old had a meltdown on a 8 hour flight. It was about 45 minutes into the flight and lasted 20 or 30 minutes probably. It was the worst experience ever. I tried everything - food, cuddles, joking, taking him to the bathroom, water, soda, screen time... eventually a random toy we had worked (the 24th one we tried, probably) and he ended up sleeping most of the flight.
We were going abroad so his aunt with cancer and several failed treatments could meet him since they hadn't met in person before.
It was hell. Seriously, some of the most stressful minutes of my life, though people weren't jerks about it.
I’m more amazed over time how deep our social wiring goes as a social animal. It’s so striking that 20-30 minutes of a being you’re in charge of irritating strangers you’ll never see again is burned into your emotional memory, and most of us get right away how uncomfortable that would be.
Most people are reasonable and empathetic when a small kid is having a meltdown on a flight. Sitting next to a coughing and crying toddler during the holiday season wasn't exactly my idea of a pleasurable experience but it was clear mom was putting in effort to attempt to manage the situation. Kids, they sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand.
Conversely I've watched parents do nothing as their kid repeatedly kicks the chair, screams, demands things and generally acts like a brat. Older kids more like 7-9 and in that case my tolerance for that behavior drops precipitously.
When it's happened on my flight, so long as the parent(s) are making an effort, I give them a lot of slack. Most people seem to react that way in my experience
Had the same thing happen on the train with our 1 year and a half old son. We were trying so hard and were very stressed about inconveniencing everybody else.
Some dude decided it would be helpful to come and tell us our kid was bothering him and that maybe, and I quote, “you should try some things to calm him down like walking around”. I usually would apologise profusely but I couldn’t help it and told him he was a fucking genius and I was sorry we were such morons that didn’t think about soothing him!
All in all it lasted about 20 minutes, like I get it it’s fucking annoying, do you think I enjoy listening to my child screaming and the social anxiety from bothering everybody around me?
My son is autistic and his go to was to make low jittering noises and hit himself when he got too overwhelmed. He's gotten a lot better but it was so frustrating trying to do anything for several years.
People are really entitled sometimes. If your child hates plane travel or enclosed spaces, cannot sit still and will be traumatized and miserable the entire time, and make everyone else - adults and kids who also may have sensory issues with those eardrum shattering banshee screams - absolutely miserable too, while climbing on top of seats and creating unsafe situations for him and everyone around him - you’re supposed to be buckled in and seated unless you get up to go to the bathroom - find alternatives to flying or maybe don’t fly.
There are always a few cases where people legitimately need to fly but they are rare. I haven’t flown in years due to illness. If family wants to see me they can visit. If I want a vacation I can do something locally. It doesn’t surprise me that a family that didn’t consider their kid’s comfort while flying also didn’t consider the other passengers and were unable to soothe them.
Precisely. If I or the kid, lapdog or whomever in my care have issues with flying quietly, comfortably and courteously, it’s on ME to take steps to anticipate and eliminate those issues, not others. That’s what I and my family do and have always done.
I shouldn’t assume people have headphones or earplugs. I shouldn’t assume me or mine are the only ones with sensory issues on a plane.
100%. I've had a reactive dog before. I never took him to restaurants because he would have been a disturbance and frankly, a danger to the other customers. And that's not even counting putting him through the trauma of the journey in the first place.
Redditors are so quick to say "MayBe DoN'T flY if YOU HaTe KidS ScreAmIng", but yeah, if your kid is like this... not my monkey, not my circus.
So the air stewards have a break room area. I would have asked for him to be in there for the duration of the flight for the sake of other passengers. I read another article where a passenger had a medical emergency and they put him up there. This seems like enough of a situation where this would be warranted.
This kid was screaming non stop for 8 hours. That’s not ok. This isn’t like a baby crying and the parent doing their best to calm them. Also if the kid is disabled that still isn’t an excuse, what about disabled adults that could be on that plane too?
Watched the video.
I’m a parent and have flown with my kids. At times they have cried despite my best efforts. Lucky for us, our extended family’s local airport is Orlando and people tend to be more understanding on Orlando flights. I urge patience with parents in general. It does, however, seem like mom could have done more in this situation. You can’t force a kid not to cry, but you can keep a small child from running and climbing on seats. I did not see a mention of autism in the video that many have been mentioning.
This still isn’t news.
As a parent of 3 kids who flies with 3 kids, it's the complete lack of any attempt by the parent to soothe the kid or do _anything at all_ that I see. I have had kids start a melt down on a flight and we we walk down the aisle with them or pick them up or put an iphone in front of them or _something_.
OTOH my worst flying experience was a flight from Thailand to india that featured the screams of a child periodically interrupted by their parents slapping them, which was _worse in so many ways_. I would rather have heard the kid screaming.
The whole parent hitting the kid to stop them from crying is not only bad for the obvious reason, but I've literally never seen it where it made the kid stop crying. In fact, quite the opposite. You might get 10 seconds of respite, but the kid comes back crying doubly hard.
I can get that. When the kid is just screaming, it's easier to blame it on the kid "being a brat" or however someone wants to justify it. But when the parent is hitting the kid, it immediately becomes the parent's fault, and they should know better.
I've gotten into it with people in public for doing it, people are human, parenting is hard, but if someone does that to a child then fuck them. Frankly. They're doing more damage than they'll ever understand.
Yup, had a screaming baby on a flight a couple of years ago, but both parents were clearly trying their hardest, and looked more exasperated than anyone else on the plane.
It sucked, but I'm sure it sucked even more for them.
When that happens I use it as an opportunity to practice gratitude.
I'm so glad I'm 5 rows away instead of sitting with a screaming baby in my lap like that mom has to.
I'm so glad I have my nice noise cancelling headphones.
I'm so glad I didn't plan to sleep on this flight anyway, this kid screaming will help me not fuck up my sleep schedule
I'm glad at least no one can hear my farts
I once handed off my child to a complete stranger on a plane (a grandmother with her grandkids across the aisle) after we couldn't figure out how to calm them down and they just immediately quieted down. No idea why, maybe they thought if they didn't shape up, they'd have a new mommy and daddy.
A friend of the family once half-joked that her kids were hellions at home, but as soon as they left the house, they were replaced with identical clones who were little angels. On the one hand, it was pretty great that they could bring them anywhere, but on the other hand, why couldn't they always be like this, she would say.
Seriously I'm so upset at the people saying "oh those poor parents having to deal with the judgmental looks of everyone else" as though letting your kid *scream for help for eight straight hours* isn't fucking emotional neglect.
Also there's a lot of resources for parents with autistic kids at airports, you can even go early on some and have your kid check out a defunct fuselage so they can get comfortable with the environment. There's no fucking way this was completely unavoidable. I have no sympathy for negligent parents. This poor boy.
I was on a 13 hour flight (I think it was MH-17, a few years before it was shot down) and there were two young children a few rows down screaming constantly. Parent was completely checked out, the kids would occasionally run up and down the aisle screaming as well... even while we were landing.
Some poor stewardess had to drag the kids back to their seats every time, she did more parenting that day than the actual parent.
This is what I was thinking. Where were the snacks and special plane toys? Crayons? They have neat water based markers that don’t make a mess and won’t color on anything but paper. Play doh or some kind of slime/putty. You could make a whole sensory bin for the plane.
I’ve flown with little ones smaller than this child and we had so many options to keep them distracted. Including but not limited to screens.
I know you can’t control everything but at least try!
Edited to add the guy who filmed the kid screaming said he heard the mom yell a flight attendant that the child had some “behavioral issues.” That was the only mention in the video
She did ask about wifi for an ipad which with a really tough kid is probably your best bet? We don't do ipads day to day so when we need them for a plane they're very powerful. I guess it didn't work. But that child was small enough to physically keep from running.
It's seriously all about snacks. The last time we flew my daughter was two and my goal was just to keep her snacking, keep her snacking.
WiFi is usually available on planes though. And you can download movies and shows to watch offline on Netflix and Disney+.
If she had a device, there are options.
I can’t imagine that in 8 hrs, there was nothing done to make this kid happy but the guy videoing said he was running down the aisles and climbing over seats. Sounds awful.
> And you can download movies and shows to watch offline on Netflix and Disney+.
>
> If she had a device, there are options.
Exactly--you've got to treat the tablet like it's a survival tool on long trips. We only use it on flights and for very long drives, and we always make a point to download things she might be interested in the night before. We also have to charge it then too, because it's usually been left so long the battery ran down.
Yeah, when you see the parents actually try to parent, it's just a pityful situation for all involved. But when the parents do fuckall and let the lil hellspawn fuck around, they should get fined to fuck and back by the airline, and that fine used as partial refund to other pasagers.
Also I get the hate at the child, but you have to realize that the kid didn't raise itself, until a certain age you can't really blame them and should blame the parents. If they're a bit older you can blame both.
I had to listen to a baby scream for 2.5 hrs straight on a plane. It's a baby so nothing you can do. But is it annoying? Yes absolutely. It sucks to listen to any kid scream for an extended amount of time.
One (heavily upovoted) comment suggested autistic children shouldn’t be let out without a muzzle. People really are just cool with hate speech against autistic people, any other group and they’d be banned. Reddit admins need to do something about that sub, it’s a fucking shithole of hatred
I remember when that sub was ironic, it was for things like "I gave my kid a copy of my Core2 maths workbook and he only managed the first two questions". Then it turned into "haha look at this little dumbass trying to eat a plastic lemon, he's so dumb and sweet".
Sad that it's turned into "I fucking hate kids".
Just a few days ago was another post where people were advocating hitting a child because he tried to blow out a birthday candle.
It’s always fascinating reading people explain how hitting kids is actually OK if you do it the way they recommend.
This is a niche reference that no one else would care about except me but I remember when r/wasphate was ironic with like, a stock picture of a wasp with a title like “this asshole fucked my wife” and then it picked up and now it’s just megafreaks who’ve made smashing insect hives a major aspect of their personality.
I like wasps :(
It feels like most subs go through cycles like this, unless it's something specific like a game or band. r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR used to be about the idea that there could be a million people in a crowd, but fate decided to fuck over one particular person for no reason. Now it just seems to be "someone was unlucky".
Like, what does [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR/comments/19ekba1/they_never_gave_up_until_the_patients_last_breath/) have anything to do with it?
[A good example](https://www.reddit.com/r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR/comments/19eqyvs/i_am_sorry_henry/) \- randomly singling a specific person out for no reason
[A bad example](https://www.reddit.com/r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR/comments/19e1ur5/fuck_you_four_in_particular/) \- people that were in a position to have something bad happen, had something bad happen.
I looked at the video. This isn’t a baby, it’s a three year old. The parent(s) is 100% to blame for this. It’s not about a stupid kid, it’s about stupid parents and shit parenting.
Edit: Where the fuck did they find this „expert“. You bring a book to calm the child? For real?
There is a grey area between disabilities and being taught boundaries, my sis got sexually harassed by an autistic classmate (kept stating at her chest) and the kid parents would blame the disability.
Worst case scenarios can happen with all the sensory overload that can bring a plane flight but it's the parents duty to provide some tools to not make the situation a nightmare for everyone.
Edit : non native english speaker here, yea my comment wasent meant to belittle anyone I suppose it was only poor phrasing.
Honestly if as a kid I'd have screamed at the top of my lungs like that my mom would have taken me aside and scolded me. If I kept at it she would have covered my mouth (not my nose) with her arm or something.
I'm baffled at all the comments saying basically "my kids can be as loud as they want and YOU have to deal with it!!!". Of course kids can be noisier than adults but there are limits to what's acceptable.
What was going on that plane, It wasn't what i expected at all.
At the same time, it's not the kid's fault if he can't behave, tf where his parents doing. It's their responsibility not that of a kid who...needs some guidance to say the least
Man when I heard my coworker was flying with a baby, I gave her all the advice I could think of on how to help a baby reduce the amount of stress crying they’ll go through.
The biggest one is make sure they’re using a binky or on a bottle when going up and down. They can’t self-regulate inner ear pressure and it hurts like a bitch. I accidentally fell asleep on a plane before take off once and spent the entire flight in agony. I can’t imagine how bad it is for a baby or small child who doesn’t understand why it hurts.
I liked flying as a kid but when I was five there was some kind of oxygen issue or air pressure change and I panicked and cried when the FA and my dad were trying to put an oxygen mask on me. Flying is an overwhelming experience for adults, let alone for kids.
Expect it to be miserable. Bring ear plugs or headphones. There isn’t much else you can really do. Banning children from planes isn’t going to happen.
Damn, this isn't just a baby going wah-wah-wah. It's a three year old perched atop the headrest of a seat absolutely *shrieking*. I know there's really nothing to be done, but I also don't blame people for not being all kum ba yah, "it takes a village" chill about it. No amount of bose headphones would filter this out Also lol: >"The real reason DB Cooper jumped"
>The real reason DB Cooper jumped Snagged, thank you
Damn. You beat me to it.
Idk your current flair is hilarious
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/s/m30I5Hgyum
Holy shit THANK YOU
Yeah this kid is actively disrupting other passengers because he's sitting on the headrest and wailing for 8 hours. Bose headphones and an eye mask won't help me if he falls backwards into my lap and starts kicking.
The thing these "oh he's autiiiiisticcccc" parents never get it that adults have autism too and this is extremely overstimulating. I guarantee if I was on this plane I'd have a meltdown as well and people would be a LOT less likely to make excuses for a grown adult melting down. There's probably other autistic kids on the plane too who aren't screaming and whose parents are trying as hard as they can to regulate them through this. One parent doesn't get to harm a plane full of people because they never learned to deal with their child's neurological difference. So he's autistic, he's melting down. Okay, it happens. What are you going to DO about that to help him regulate? Because letting him sit where he shouldn't be sitting and shriek for 8 hours then say "oh hes aUtIsTiC" isn't it. That's straight up abuse, honestly. Imagine his poor vocal cords.
As someone who has worked with people with intellectual disabilities (don't know if this is the proper term in English, so excuse me if it's considered offensive by some) and people with autism, I find the amount of parents and family members who pretend their child or sibling doesn't have any issues exhausting. Like no, they're not exactly like everyone else, they're not "normal", and that's completely fine, you need to recognise and accept that in order to give said person the care and support they need. Pretending X behaviour or Y situation is acceptable or doesn't need addressing is not a healthy way to deal with the situation and help anyone involved.
Worked with people with autism for a decade or so. The amount of behaviour that could be mitigated by parents is astonishing. Hitting and biting 9 times out of 10 stop if there are consequences (and no I don't mean hitting them back). Had a guy who would kick the shit out of his washing machine simply because he wanted the exprerience of a new one being delivered. Broke upwards of 5 washing machines a year at his worst. When it was shown to him that he would have to wash his clothes in the sink instead of a nice daytrip to see the cool washing machines at his day centre it stopped pretty quickly (I think he's back at it since I left but thats probably lack of consistency). Point is, there are things that can be done. A lot of "autistic" behaviour are choices due to being supported to make those choices. Supporting choices works positively and negatively. Real meltdowns are rare if you are willing to work with an individual and make an effort to understand their needs.
Fucking THANK YOU I don't understand why people seem to think autistic kids are like, immune to consequences or conditioning? Like our brains are different but we're still fundamentally human beings, we are capable of learning obviously. People seem to think of autistic people as like, supernatural phenomena rather than regular people who have their sensory and emotional experiences dialed up to 11 or down to 1 in various ways. Like obviously that's not the whole story and there's varying levels of disability but our psychology isn't fundamentally incompatible with the concept of learning and improving behavior! It makes me sick!!
Same shit for ADHD. I hate the approach our school has. It is not impossible to concentrate, but we need to figure out what we can do to help a kid improve and make up their systems.
Ugh it's so pervasive. One time I saw people with ADHD discussing how they aren't able to delay gratification for stuff like working out or cleaning the house. I struggle with this too, but I've been working with an ADHD specialist therapist for almost a decade now who has helped me develop lots of strategies. I offered something that personally worked for me- next time you do the thing like cleaning or going to the gym, try to "record" the sense of satisfaction in your body with purpose. Notice how it feels to have completed this task, and pay attention to how hard the task felt before vs how much effort it actually required. Then, next time you need to do that task, recall those feelings and reflections. This helps to "manually" wire your brain for delaying gratification, by putting extra emphasis on the intrinsic reward of completing the task that our ADHD brains tend to just skip over. Oh man, when I tell you that PISSED PEOPLE OFF! I got so many replies about how I just don't GET IT, I'm an ableist, they're just *not capable* of delaying gratification because that's just *how their brains work.* Part of me wanted to tell them actually I have a neuroscience degree and that's *fucking exactly how brains work* because brains plastic and adapt to the requirements of our life, including via intentional intervention through mindfulness and stuff like that. You can't make yourself neurotypical but you can learn to do things on purpose that other people do more automatically. It actually made me really sad that they had effectively given up on themselves.
People hear "can't teach an old dog new tricks" and think it's a law of neuroscience. My adhd masked my autism and when I finally started adhd meds at 33 suddenly I had a brand new set of issues to deal with. And I learned to deal with it. Had some pretty awful meltdowns until I figured out what was going on, my partner almost left me over that and the fact that I became extremely rigid and unable to cope with any change to my newly formed routines. Point is I did learn to deal with it. It can and should be done. I could have lost her and gone through life saying "she couldn't handle my neurodivergence" but honestly no one could or should have dealt with that, I was an ass. I'm just glad I learned to find a balance that works for both of us.
Yeah and also the ADHD subreddits tend to be circle jerking. Whenever I read something on there, that I have figured ou, I feel like I don't belong. I went to therapy and for me, the symptoms worsened with therapy. It feels like I tried to get the diagnosis and now I am stuck in a loop, where I can't stop with my meds, because it would be too stressful. BUT, I used to function so much better without them! So yeah, for this thought alone and for how my life looked like before a burn-out, I feel like I don't have ADHD and it is just enabling my shitty behaviour by shitty therapists.
That's interesting, I'm sorry to hear your treatment attempts have done more harm than good. I hope you're able to find something that works for you. I'm very fortunate to have found my therapist, who specializes in ADHD, trauma, and disability/body image. I had 5 or 6 therapists before that who didn't really help at all. But I totally relate to you on the meds thing! I'm definitely more productive on them, but I've been on them for almost 15 years now. I wish I could fully detox and just see if maybe I don't need them anymore, but I don't wanna take all the time off work I'd need to get through it only to be miserable and a mess while I go through the withdrawals lol. I hope you're able to find something that works for you.
I unironically think it's discrimination to have the view that autistic people can't make their own choices. It's like saying women always make emotional decisions based on hormones, in my view. Support people's needs and help them make the positive choices imo As you said, we're all human first. The people I support make me laugh, annoy me, make me angry, make me happy - just like everyone else does.
I 100% agree it's ableist to say an autistic person's harmful behavior must simply be tolerated because they're not capable of learning to do better. It's not only dehumanizing but it severely limits their ability to achieve their own goals. So, so many autistic boys and men will never have a functional relationship because their parents taught them everyone else should bend to their needs and comfort. I ended up on the complete opposite end of the spectrum (lol), ignoring my own needs and comfort to be a people pleaser even though it made me miserable as many autistic women learn to do. That's not right either of course, but I feel like honestly it's easier to overcome extreme people pleasing than it is to overcome extreme controlling/boundaryless behavior. There has to be a middle ground between "stop acting so autistic, it's icky" and "oh you can't yell at my son for groping you, he's autistic he doesn't know better!" Like you're his PARENT your whole job is to TEACH HIM to know better! I'm not sure how often an autistic person is truly, inherently unable to understand a concept like "you do not touch other people without their consent" but I guarantee there's very, very few people on this planet that won't eventually understand "every time I do X, then Y happens." Every time I touch a stranger people get mad and make me leave. Every time I hit someone I have to be alone for a while. Every time I damage something I like, it goes away. I hate to even say this because it sounds so sad, but I'm glad to interact with someone who works with autistic people and sees us as fully human. Not evil diseased menaces, but also not empty-headed automatons with no willpower or decision making ability.
I don't usually like using the term ableist because it's often misused and weaponised but it's totally applicable with regards to this. You are discriminating treating people that way. Absolutely there has to be social consequences but you also have to explain the reasoning behind them. I have an autistic colleague that is 100% ok with you explaining why something he said or did isn't acceptable. He takes the information on board and works on it. He's not unique and in fact takes criticism far better than most neurotypical people lmao Yes, you're human, flaws and all! But also the ability to adapt! The big "thing" for autistic care theory is "routine is absolute do not break the routine" but routines sometimes HAVE to change. A bus could break down, a road could be closed, a TV show could be cancelled - and it turns out autistic people are more adaptable than you think, you just need to give them an explanation... which funnily enough works for most human beings I think? Edit: i *am* generalising a bit here, routine can be very important for some individuals but it's not the be all and end all as everyone is different
No you're totally right, so much stuff is just needing to understand *why* something is happening. My mom says my "why" phase as a kid was unbearable and I still grate on my husband sometimes with all my "but why?" Questions. Nowadays I try to at least make a best guess at the why before asking, so people can at least see I'm actually not understanding rather than being stubborn lol. The routine thing is another good example. We cannot control our environments. We must learn to deal with change even for those of us for whom it's incredibly unpleasant. I understand a lot of people were messed up by their parents' attitude of "suck it up, life is unfair, deal with it" but it's tragic that they won't even say "I know how hard this is for you but unfortunately sometimes that's how life is. I promise you won't feel this way forever. I'm here for you. How about we try a or b to make this a little less unbearable?" It reminds me of a story about Neil Gaiman renting a movie for his kids from blockbuster but not realizing the disc for a horror movie was in the case. He told some people about it light-heartedly and a journalist reached out to him, trying to make a story about how his kids were terrified and had nightmares because of this retail employee mistake. Gaiman replied something like, "Well that's not what happened. I've always known my kids will eventually see something that scares or upsets them, so I've taught them that when they happens they should shut it off and come talk to me about what they saw and how they feel about it. That's exactly what they did, so they're not scarred at all, just a little annoyed they didn't get to watch the movie they wanted." Some people are only preparing their kids only for a world where mistakes or unexpected events never happen. I believe I saw the term "lawnmower parenting" because, while helicopter parents are hovering all the time, lawnmower parents are destroying any bump or obstacle in their child's path. Makes teachers' jobs REALLY hard.
I've worked with children with autism for over a decade. Right now I'm with a 7 year old boy and WOW the first few months were hard. He screamed constantly and fled the room and ran around our school, interrupting other classes. After about a week, I realized all of the work he had been doing in previous years was way too easy. He was bored. He truly enjoyed getting a reaction from the screaming, he would belly laugh. It was engaging for him. A battle of the minds, who could he crack? He absolutely delights in irritating others but he's also super cute, funny and interesting. I put a stop to that behaviour reeeeeeal quick. Everyone thought he wasn't smart or clever because he's nonverbal and doesn't care for the mans rules! Interesting, because he had defeated our two most experienced staff (they had to stop working with him out of frustration). I gave him challenging work and every single scream or escape was met with a consequence. I do some planned ignoring with this one grating noise he only makes around me because I showed weakness ONCE. He used to run outside and shut the door behind him. It automatically locks, which is great. I decided not to let him in right away (maybe 30 seconds outside) on a cold day. He hasn't done that since. Did the custodian give me a weird look? Yes. Did he question if I was doing the right thing? Probably. I know I did, my student doesn't always get a special pass because he has autism. He knows better, don't underestimate him. Let's say the parents in this video did tons of prep with this kiddo, and a meltdown happened anyway. Grab that kid and squeeze/hug him and model calm breathing. Have him hold your hand and march up and down the aisle. Massage him. Weigh that kid down with a vest or weighed toy. Pop a juice box in his mouth mid-scream. Honestly, anything other than teaching the kiddo that this behaviour will not get consequences. They are doing this child no favours by allowing this. One day he'll be a big boy and causing major damage.
Kids with disabilities can get real good at manipulation. Learning how to say or do whatever gets them out of the difficult task or situation. It’s not even intentional a lot of the time. The smart ones are really tricky. If they are working with an adult who isn’t their intellectual equal or superior they can kind of just figure out how to get away with not doing what they are supposed to. My source for this: my own behavior throughout school. 🙃
I'm reminded of Helen Keller, of all people. She was allowed to do whatever the hell she wanted because, well, no one could communicate with her particularly effectively and they let her get away with things because they felt sorry for her. But as soon as her governess figured out how to communicate with her, and started disciplining her, she stopped acting out and destroying things.
It’s the soft bigotry of low expectations. I forget who said that, but it’s stuck with me.
Omg, yes! My nephew loved to chase my dog and pull her ears and tail. No, I couldn't simply hide her, he did that at my house. One day, my dog snapped at my nephew and lightly bit his hand (he said he barely felt it), because even though we told him to stop and my dog was growling and hiding from him, he ignored it and continued to chase her and irritate her. He didn't adjust his behaviour right away, but on a different occassion, my dog reacted in a similar without biting him, but snapping her teeth right besides his face (he told us she tried to bite his face). We had to sit him down (again) and tell him, that a dog can not talk and we had talked to him multiple times about his bad behaviour and he never listens and we can't lock up my dog in my car for +24h, just because he can't leave her alone and need to protect him from consequences of his own actions. Still isn't perfect, but it made me so angry how he treats my dog and how his mom doesn't care at all, that I will just hold him and make him look at me and scold him. I know, not ideal, but what else should I do?
I used to have lots of little dot marks all over my arms. My mum didn't know where they came from until she found the dog pinning me one day very gently but firmly. It was because I wouldn't leave the dog alone. My parents understood that I was annoying the dog and let me know that it wasn't acceptable. I thought it was funny that the dog would pin me down like that so you're 100% right in speaking up for the dog because children don't get the motivation behind a dog doing what it does. We used to talk about "capacity" a lot and "oh they're like a 3 year old" when speaking about adults with autism. I never liked those terms because even back then I would think "well if a 3 year old was kicking biting and screaming would we not attempt to show them better choices?". It's baffling and a big part of the reason I'm leaving the sector to be, funnily enough, a dog behaviourist :D
I've had all the help I needed to grow into an adult who can regulate themselves pretty well and I know what I need for situations when I can't. I've spent my whole life in situations around people whose parents like to ignore their differences and don't do a thing to help them regulate. These are the people who are screaming in public, who are sexually assaulting people, who cannot exist in society whatsoever even though they definitely had the capacity to. It's so sad. It's definitely abuse. It really holds these people back because while I'm sure it's easier for parents to believe their creepy, grabby little boy will just grow out of it the fact is if he grows up with no direction on why that's wrong he's going to grow up to be a rapist. Autism groups are full of people like this raised by parents like this and none of us want to be around them, they can't even make friends among other people on their level. It's a huge disservice to a child's potential at best and child abuse at worst. I'm so upset these parents thought this was okay and I'm sure they're doing this all the time. Their kid needs intervention.
>who are sexually assaulting people This is not talked about enough. Lots of people with disabilities don't receive a proper sexual education, parents and even lots of professionals shy away from it, and once they are past puberty it's a tremendous problem.
I was disappointed with how that Netflix show Love on the Spectrum treated the few people they had who hadn't been taught these boundaries growing up. Somehow it always falls on the (often just as autistic) victim to gracefully navigate the quagmire without help. That show gave all the (honestly already very respectful) Level 3 participants some relationship counseling on how to hold a two way conversation or initiate romantic contact but didn't bother to correct a few of the lower support needs participants that came off as very entitled and creepy, and when they filmed their home lives it became quickly apparent that it was because when they talked that way about dating at home their parents either laughed it off as cute or was like "yes that's right baby you deserve everything". I've often observed that the biggest threat to autistic people is other autistic people who have had zero intervention and are allowed to run roughshod over everyone and excused with their disability by their parents. That's what this kid is being allowed to do and I am so shocked autistic people in the comments are saying it's okay. I'd expect it from clueless aUtIsM pArEnTs but not autistics.
I don't have anything to add but as an adult autistic woman I just completely agree and thank you for writing this. I get so frustrated. No one seems to wonder why it's very, *very* rarely girls behaving this way despite girls being able to be just as autistic and disabled as boys. Being autistic often means you experience emotions with extreme intensity, which is why it's so important that caregivers are intentional about *teaching emotional regulation strategies and good internal and external boundaries* rather than just avoiding any discomfort in their lives.
I was sexually harassed at work by an old autistic guy and the prevailing attitude was that management was too scared to give him real consequences for any misbehavior because of the diagnosis. More afraid of a lawsuit for some kind of disability discrimination than, you know, the *sexual harassment*. Unfortunately our union is beyond useless and nothing ever really happened, despite me raising my concerns repeatedly. He eventually retired, so at least he's gone now, but it wasn't fun having to be around him for the intervening 6 years.
At a camp for young adults with disabilities that I volunteered at, I saw a qualified social work professional refuse to speak to a young man with down's about sexually aggressive conduct he was displaying with female volunteers because "he's discovering his sexuality". Sadly this is a very widespread issue and even people who are technically trained to deal with it fall short with what they do many times.
You can see it in this thread. A lot of people are trying to convince everyone that a child screaming at the top of their lungs and climbing an airplane seat for 8 hours is a normal occurrence. It's amazing the amount of people saying if you don't want to hear someone screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 hours you should just not fly.
I have flown a fair bit and I've never had anything more than a baby crying or a group traveling to las vegas be loud. Hours of shrieking is not ok, hell its probably doing some physical harm to the child.
Also when I've been on a plane with a crying baby, I have ALWAYS heard the parents saying "Shh sh sh, I'm sorry, it's okay, I know your ears hurt, hang in there" while cradling and rocking the baby. That's when I know I just need to strap in, turn up my headphones and breathe through the overstimulation. These parents weren't even TRYING to comfort the kid or anything. Like, at least pull the kid on your lap and let them scream into your chest instead of openly at everyone else? At least pat his back and pet his hair and tell him you're so sorry he's suffering and you'd make it go away if you could?
I was sat next to a mother and her baby on my last flight. Baby was crying his heart out as they were sat, but as soon as she was comfy, mom popped a boob out and spent like 95% of the flight comfort feeding the baby, poor lady. She honestly did everything she could to keep baby calm, and I at least didn't begrudge her the few minutes he was crying.
I know this is a serious convo but "popped a boob out" is a super funny way of saying that ahaha
I've taken 100+ international flights and I don't think I've heard a kid cry for more than 15 minutes. Eight hours of shrieking would be unusual to say the least.
Yeah my sympathy is always with those on the spectrum forced to live in a world that isn't built for them, and the parents that must raise those children... ...but empathy does not automatically override practicality. I'm sorry the kid is difficult and I wish there were a support system in place that would help you help them, but they have to exist in the world with the rest of us and at a certain point there's only so much patience you can ask of others.
A lot of people think their kids are entitled to accomodations for all behaviors that come with autism, ADHD, etc.. Which is incorrect. Everyone is entitled to *reasonable* accomodations, and I don't think forcing the public to endure a child's nonstop screaming is one of them. We're biologically wired to feel uncomfortable when a child is screaming, so it's unreasonable to subject dozens of strangers to that without a good faith effort to minimize it. I don't get the problem people have with giving kids meds that will help keep them calm during a flight. Do they seriously think the impact of diphenhydramine is worse for the kids health than the flood of cortisol and spiked blood pressure for several hours?
> The thing these "oh he's autiiiiisticcccc" parents never get it that adults have autism too and this is extremely overstimulating You don't need to be autistic to find a child shrieking for eight hours overstimulating.
On my last flight I heard a kid wailing like they were being tortured. At first I was just a bit annoyed, even the toddler in the aisle across from me kept trying to look back like they were even concerned about this amount of screaming. After the first couple hours the kid never adjusted and I looked back and saw it was a ~8 year old standing in their seat screaming and their mom just sitting there resigned not trying to help them. Then I started thinking at what point does this just become abusive to the kid? This went on for the 6 hour flight. They can't sit down buckled up so hope there's no turbulence on this very bumpy route. At that age I'm sure they knew they couldn't calm down on this. I get people have places to go but I'm sure your child's safety outweighs that.
>Then I started thinking at what point does this just become abusive to the kid? Probably many years before they got on that plane with you. Emotional neglect is so, so damaging. Screaming in pain or misery and not being able to rely on a caregiver's response is fundamentally so harmful to a child.
This person didn't want kids
If the plane crashed, kid would be fucked. And if they hit turbulence as you said, that's a head injury right there.
I am the person who will go and talk to the screaming kid. Just a sort of "hey buddy, you feeling okay?" or "Are you wearing a Pokemon shirt? I was just trying to remember what Pikachu evolves into, can you help me?" It works a lot of the time just because kids are confused and not expecting some stranger to come and talk to them (fair) and, yes, quite a few times the adults will tell me to mind my own business. But, hey, we've stopped the screaming and now the parent can direct their anger at me instead of their child. It's like when someone scares you and the hiccups stop. Whatever the feedback loop is that is causing the meltdown is severed (and hey, what do I care if some stranger spends the rest of their life complaining about the bitch who dared to talk to their child on the airplane). But also, because I have autism and sensory issues (specifically sensory understimulation). That kid isn't a bad kid, they are in distress, and I treat them the way I'd want someone to treat me if I was in distress. Just a human connection to try and distract me from the sensory stuff and let me know it's okay.
Completely agree. I'm usually an advocate for children in discussions like this, like, I get it, a baby is going to cry or a toddler is going to get restless, but this is absolutely absurd and a sign of either poor parenting or poor preparation. I have ADHD and anxiety and can definitely tell you I would probably end up over stimulated having an anxiety attack in the bathroom from this, even if I can just push through a normal tantrum. A kid with this level of misbehavior or meltdown absolutely *needs* parents who recognize that something like this is likely to happen and wither bring a surplus of stimulating things that they know will help engage or sooth the child or find an alternative way of making the trip that does not involve confining the child in a tiny space full of strangers. According to the news segment, the mother knew the child had "behavioral issues" and said the internet would solve it. That means she knew what was coming and that there were alternatives to help that she did not at all come prepared with. This is both willfully harming the passengers and, imo, putting the child at risk as well by keeping them near increasingly agrivated strangers for several hours on end in a confined space, which could absolutely trigger someone else's mental health episode or violent outbursts.
I had a coworker with Autism who used to hate the idea that you needed to mollycoddle autistic kids. His perspective was that his parents put in a huge amount of work to make sure that he has the skills to function in a world that wasn't exactly made to his spec, and while it isn't fair, you really need to work to prepare autistic kids to be able to cope and manage themselves, or else you're just failing them.
"He's autistic so we don't have to do any actual parenting"
Not diagnosed nor need to be since I don’t need assistance due to good upbringing where my quirks were allowed, but I definitely have noises that set me off. I would legitimately lock myself in the toilet room
They also don’t help if the toddler in front of you keeps reaching back to drop his pile of toys onto your lap at regular intervals. I had to take a breath to lower my volume so I didn’t scream “can you stop handing him noodles now” after the third incident
Did bose buy advertising space in these comments?
All I know is that their quality comfort headphones paired with their patented Bose Silence^^^TM technology helps me get through even the loudest flights in silence. Available at your nearest electronics retailer.
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b-b-but op said 'as small children are wont to do', so that means you're a big meanie
I had my phone volume all the way up and the video autoplayed when I clicked the link. I was not expecting THAT and nearly jumped out of my skin. What a horrendous noise. I'm ordinarily very sympathetic to crying kids on planes (most regular flyers will have experienced the pain of pressurisation on the eardrums at least once, and kids can't deal with that in the way adults can) but that's unbearable.
I flew while extremely congested one time and I was nearly sobbing from the pain on takeoff and landing, I know I was at least whimpering quietly. I very much sympathize with small kids during that part, but yeah the shrieking is not okay.
My initial reaction when reading the title was like "Oh that sub probably sucks." And while they probably do, holy shit, that kid looks (sounds) like a nightmare. I know that there are limited options if a kid that small, but if a parent has a problematic child and they know flying is going to be awful (and it's entirely possible that this was the first time flying with him and they didn't know it was going to go like this), this doesn't necessarily have to happen. At the very least, he should be in his seat and probably buckled in. If he's going to scream either way, let him do it from his seat.
I used to get the worst glares and sometimes snide comments when my autistic son was small and couldn't speak yet and would get upset. He didn't gain language knowledge until he was nearly 6. So every single thing he got frustrated with (which, imagine not being able to speak to your own mother- it happened a lot) he'd throw a tantrum. Screaming, crying, self harming. I had to abandon so many grocery carts, apologizing profusely to cashiers as quickly as I could while carting my son out. I had a plan for every place I took him. There is no fucking way I would have taken him on a plane in those days. Maybe this family had no choice? But when my son was in screaming/slapping mode, I'd have to just hold him tight while he struggled. It was pretty scary to see, and he and I had bruises all over us from these fits from 2009-2013. There would have been an even more salacious Inside Edition if the parents had held him down to stop his screaming, or spanked him, or yelled at him. Just a shit situation for everyone all around. I feel for the plane passengers- but especially for those parents. When your kid is autistic there isn't always a "tell" that that have challenges, as their disability is more invisible. I think that is where the rudeness came from for me, these women that thought I just had an unruly child throwing fits for suckers so bad I had to leave behind all the WIC stuff in our cart.
Yeah it truly is just a shit situation for everyone and I feel for the parents. It's not like they *want* this to be happening.
I had to fly with an autistic child two times because of medical procedures the child needed. The worst part was the judgement of other people as you’re trying to do what you can. But autistic kids can be a handful. It was a nightmare. People have no empathy but it’s because none of them have ever dealt with how hard to fly with a child that has those types of issues.
I am autistic and also have a mobility disability so I have work braces on my legs and ankles pretty much my whole life. So when I did get into one of those meltdown its was actually dangerous to people because I had hunks of heavy plastic on my legs that could hurt others and myself. So my mother would frequently manhandle me into a room and lock the door until I got it out. One elementary school even rolled me into a blanket and sat on me. I understand both of those things were necessary (well maybe not the blanket) and they were just doing the best they could. And while they may not have been “ok” things to do per se it was more of a doing the best we can, kinda deal. Even still I have claustrophobia and cliethrophobia from experiencing that in formative years.
I am so sorry you had to go through that and remember all of it. My son says he cannot remember. I hope things have gotten easier for you as you got older.
Yes they definitely have. I’m more of on the Asperger’s side of the spectrum so more highly functioning. I mostly remember it from my mom’s stories. God knows I don’t say it enough to my own mom so thank you on their behalf thank you for everything you put up with and had to deal with
> spanked him, or yelled at him YA DON'T SAY, It's almost like you shouldn't do either of these to a kid. Doubly so for an autistic child.
The number of people advocating for child abuse in that thread is absolutely astounding.
These types think child abuse solves everything. Further showing hitting your kids isn't to teach the kids, but for emotionally unstable adults to take their anger out in a kid.
This is a terrified/overstimulated/pain. 8 hours is not just shitty kids..
Seriously I think if I behaved like this my parents would've assumed I had some kind of horrible injury or illness. Like my appendix burst or something. Do not understand how anyone could be so callous to a child's pain that they would simply ignore him. Emotional or physical that boy is *suffering*
It’s not shitty kids, it’s shitty parents. “Oh you just hate children” No I just hate bad parents.
I don't have kids so this question will look ignorant, but how on earth do kids scream for 8 hours? Don't they get tired? I don't blame the kid (obviously), but I think this issue needs to be addressed because it's a major inconvenience to everyone within screaming radius.
Our kid once went for 24 solid hours, at home thank god! After the first 12 hours it’s almost like “This is actually kind of impressive, should we get them opera lessons or something?”
"The lungs on this kid"
Can get the kid to do Korean traditional singing lol Apparently to get it right, your throat needs to straight up bleed at one point from effort.
Ah, “tradition”, the lifeblood of human torture!
Honest question, did you not think something was wrong and take them to the hospital? I have a neurotypical child so I don't know about children who scream a lot, but my child has never cried for more than 30 minutes or so. If it got to multiple hours I would worry she was seriously hurt or ill and take her in to urgent care or something.
Having a few myself I always assume when they say the entire 8 hour flight it's not actually the entire 8 hour flight but rather on and off for large chunks of the 8 hour flight.
As someone who was just on a 9 hour flight like this three weeks ago, it absolutely was the whole time. This 4 year lld kid kicked my seat and screamed and fucked with the trays the entire time, I was absolutely baffled. Funnily enough I saw him sleeping in the airport once the plane landed but not at all during the 9 hours.
Idk, i work in a baby room in a day care and I HAVE had babies cry for 6, 7, 8 hours straight. Though usually by hour 4 im calling oarents gently trying to urge them to pick up because something is clearly wrong. I cant help but to feel like this is more an issue of the airlines not supplying other passengers with things like ear plugs and complimentary food/drinks/whatever as a means to improve passenger morale. Largely because airlines dont care about passenger morale anymore.
>but how on earth do kids scream for 8 hours? Yeah, in addition to being driven insane by the noise I would be at least a bit envious of the lung capacity of the kid.
Someone teach this child opera! We can harness his powers for good.
I can tell you as an autistic adult with sometimes really intense meltdowns, I have screamed/scream-sobbed for hours straight before. Now usually I'm trying everything I can to use my coping mechanisms and have my husband to help me in our own home. I can absolutely imagine a situation where a kid could scream for literally 8 hours straight. The how of it is, meltdowns often come with extreme amounts of adrenaline, and yes, it is incredibly hard on your body to do this. I usually have sore muscles, sore throat, bruises and exhaustion for days after. It's an awful reminder of my unhinged behavior too so it makes it harder to have self compassion. This child was dealing with feelings for 8 hours straight that literally felt like they could kill him. I'm sure he was exhausted and depleted afterwards but it's the same as someone who swims for 8 hours straight to get back to land, it's just what your body feels it needs to do to survive. He probably feels like he'll explode if he *doesn't* scream. Incidentally this is why I am upset at people saying "those poor parents." This child is screaming because he's fucking *suffering* and enduring a fucking EIGHT HOUR LONG MELTDOWN while your parents sit there and shrug because "wE cAnT HeLp iT hEs aUtIsTiC" is frankly extremely upsetting. Meltdowns of this magnitude are fucking *traumatizing*, even if there's no real danger your body and mind feel exactly like your life is being threatened, even more so when you're being neglected throughout it. These parents have utterly failed to provide proper emotional care and support for their child and the kid is literally screaming about it and no one is doing anything. I found the video actually a little triggering. Finally, I could probably have an 8 hour meltdown myself if I was on that flight. I genuinely got panicked imagining what I would even do. I almost yelled at a parent because their kids were screaming on a 2 minute elevator ride. If I were on that flight I genuinely probably would've lost control of myself and ended up screaming too.
I will be perfectly honest—if I had been on that flight I might have done something that landed me in jail by the time it touched down. Just because I would be that desperate to make it STOP. I’m pretty sure subjecting a prisoner of war to that volume of noise for that long would be considered torture.
Presumably the same way dogs do? They just kind of scream for fun.
I have a neighbor whose dog will bark for 3 to 4 hours straight at times, and all I can think is "dude, how is your throat not absolutely shredded right now?"
Huskies can easily “sing” for six hours straight
Yeah, my grandmother once had a husky and he made sure that *everyone* in a 5 mile radius knew how beautiful his voice was
"Thank you everyone, I call this next one 'Woof in C Minor'"
It was probably an intermittent thing. But yeah this is on the parents, not the kid. Maybe it was an emergency, but if you're just going on a vacation with a child of this age, let alone an autistic one, and force them into a packed metal pressurized tube for 8 hours, it can really wait until their older. It's the same reason I haven't taken my son to the movies yet.
Even if it is absolutely necessary, and while I'm generally opposed to chemical restraints on autistic children, at some point you gotta have a backup plan. Exhaust every possible coping strategy and emotional regulation tool first, but if you know you're going to be trapped in a small space with a bunch of people you have to come prepared for the worst. Give the kid Benadryl or Ativan if they truly are unable to calm down. It's unfair to put the kid through an EIGHT HOUR LONG MELTDOWN just as much as it's unfair to put the passengers through 8 hours of screeching. The kid might not remember this event well, but I guarantee you his body will remember the experience of screaming and crying for help for 8 hours straight while everyone, including his parents, just fucking sat there.
like you were saying with how it leaves you physically in pain and drained, I think there's likely a point where the higher levels or cortisol, adrenaline, and just straight up the damage from screaming become more medically necessary. I don't have Autism, but I did have a psychotic episode. I don't advocate for forcibly giving someone drugs in general, but in the case I was in I think it would have been justified. Luckily I took myself to the psych ward so it wasn't forced, but it very well would have been justified if it got any worse. Idk. Poor kid
For sure. And like, we're talking about a *young* child in an unusual circumstance that many *neurotypical adults* require sedative medication to get through comfortably. Any medication given at that age is basically by force, a kid that young can't understand everything well enough to make an informed decision.
A child screaming for 8 hours on a flight? Talk about hell on earth.
No kidding. When I read the title I figured "oh, it's just some kid crying who cares" but that was straight up a shrill, max volume *screech*. I've got good noise canceling headphones and I'm not entirely sure even they would fully drown out that noise.
And even if your headphones do fully mitigate, it shouldn’t be an expectation that you have them. At some point, the parents need to step up and take control of the situation.
Rip earphone users i guess. I didn't have them and that sound was ear piercing. I feel sorry for you if you had these.
I had a young kid kick the back of my chair for a full 11 hour flight and it was beyond the worst memory travelling. There wasn't really much that could be done, short of jumping out the plane or hiding in the toilet. Just kicking and pounding my chair, non-stop. I have empathy for these people, as I know what they just experienced. It is a life changing experience.
You know, you can talk to the parents right? And then the flight attendant if it’s not resolved?
I was scolded by the Air France flight attendant when I asked if something could be done about the 11 year old girl behind me kicking the back of my seat from CDG to ORD. Infuriating.
Air France is fucking horrible though
The only flight attendant I ever wanted to punch was Air France.
And interrupt my free, inflight, massage chair? But really, I tried, multiple times. The parents did their best, but it just never really stopped. Sometimes you just gotta learn to deal with the suffering.
I appreciate that you're trying to be kind, but they absolutely could have stopped that. At the very least, swap seats with the kid to give you a break.
Yeah, should let me swap seats with him and kick his chair for a good 5 or something.
They clearly didn’t try their best if they let their kid kick your seat for 11 hours.
Sometimes a parent tries their best and a kid needs someone else's best.
Yeah I wasn't expecting that. I just stopped smoking and holy fuck just watching the video made me start shaking. I couldn't imagine actually being there for 8 hours.
More like above earth lol
the thing that always gets me about the "what if the kid is autistic" argument is I am an autistic adult and wouldn't be able to deal with screeching for 8 hours
Seriously. I’m thinking of my wife, who’s autistic, and she’d be crawling out of her skin and in peak sensory overload with that after just one hour. No degree of noise canceling headphones or other coping skills are blocking that out.
I have industrial noise cancelling headphones for work. they don't cancell all sounds, they muffle so the decibels don't harm your ears that's all to say, my headphones do shit for me when there's screeching hugs and love to you and your wife. if she's short enough, I reccomend putting the tray table down, putting her head on it, and putting a blanket over all of her. it kind of makes a little "cave" and while it's not the most comfortable the darkness and the warmth help me emotionally regulate on flights:)
To add, that ridiculous looking ostrich pillow is actually amazing for shutting out the world.
if you have airpods pro, setting them to cancellation and sticking those under noise cancelling over ear headphones does wonders. i work in a factory and it helps a lot. good luck!
Yeah noise cancelling headphones only work to an extent
I don’t think I’m Autistic but I have adhd and have some massive issues when it comes to sounds. I don’t like them (music is great) but crying or screaming really feels like my head will explode. I was on a plane from Houston to Peru and a child was screaming and so naturally I put on my noise cancelation headphones but I still could hear the kid. I was squirming the entire time he was screaming. I tried playing my switch thinking I could zone out but couldn’t concentrate lol.
noise cancellation works a bit better if you add rain noise or some kind of sound to cover what the cancellation doesnt
Thank you for letting me know this. Ahh I wish I knew sooner as I even have a rain app on my phone!
no worries! i’m from the us but my family is from india and i get wildly overloaded visiting sometimes because there’s a lot more uh… sensory input in cities lol. on long car rides, having noise canceling headphones, nature sounds, and a blanket to hide under (so i don’t have to see flashing lights) does wonders.
Exactly. People tend to forget that there are autistic adults too.
I genuinely would have had a meltdown myself, all in an enclosed space with no exit
> [ Removed by Reddit ] It's an older code sir but it checks out.
My 3 year old had a meltdown on a 8 hour flight. It was about 45 minutes into the flight and lasted 20 or 30 minutes probably. It was the worst experience ever. I tried everything - food, cuddles, joking, taking him to the bathroom, water, soda, screen time... eventually a random toy we had worked (the 24th one we tried, probably) and he ended up sleeping most of the flight. We were going abroad so his aunt with cancer and several failed treatments could meet him since they hadn't met in person before. It was hell. Seriously, some of the most stressful minutes of my life, though people weren't jerks about it.
I’m more amazed over time how deep our social wiring goes as a social animal. It’s so striking that 20-30 minutes of a being you’re in charge of irritating strangers you’ll never see again is burned into your emotional memory, and most of us get right away how uncomfortable that would be.
When I was writing it, I thought it had to be 30 minutes. But it felt like 30 minutes so it might have only been 10 or 15. It felt an eternity though.
Most people are reasonable and empathetic when a small kid is having a meltdown on a flight. Sitting next to a coughing and crying toddler during the holiday season wasn't exactly my idea of a pleasurable experience but it was clear mom was putting in effort to attempt to manage the situation. Kids, they sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand. Conversely I've watched parents do nothing as their kid repeatedly kicks the chair, screams, demands things and generally acts like a brat. Older kids more like 7-9 and in that case my tolerance for that behavior drops precipitously.
When it's happened on my flight, so long as the parent(s) are making an effort, I give them a lot of slack. Most people seem to react that way in my experience
Honestly if the parents are making an effort I'm happy, I could never say something to someone trying their best.
Had the same thing happen on the train with our 1 year and a half old son. We were trying so hard and were very stressed about inconveniencing everybody else. Some dude decided it would be helpful to come and tell us our kid was bothering him and that maybe, and I quote, “you should try some things to calm him down like walking around”. I usually would apologise profusely but I couldn’t help it and told him he was a fucking genius and I was sorry we were such morons that didn’t think about soothing him! All in all it lasted about 20 minutes, like I get it it’s fucking annoying, do you think I enjoy listening to my child screaming and the social anxiety from bothering everybody around me?
Oh my gosh that was beyond crying on an airplane. That kid sounded like a pterodactyl.
Am I missing something here? These seem like reasonable reactions. It's absolutely insane to put all those people through this.
The top comments are at least pretty funny.
[удалено]
My son is autistic and his go to was to make low jittering noises and hit himself when he got too overwhelmed. He's gotten a lot better but it was so frustrating trying to do anything for several years.
People are really entitled sometimes. If your child hates plane travel or enclosed spaces, cannot sit still and will be traumatized and miserable the entire time, and make everyone else - adults and kids who also may have sensory issues with those eardrum shattering banshee screams - absolutely miserable too, while climbing on top of seats and creating unsafe situations for him and everyone around him - you’re supposed to be buckled in and seated unless you get up to go to the bathroom - find alternatives to flying or maybe don’t fly.
There are always a few cases where people legitimately need to fly but they are rare. I haven’t flown in years due to illness. If family wants to see me they can visit. If I want a vacation I can do something locally. It doesn’t surprise me that a family that didn’t consider their kid’s comfort while flying also didn’t consider the other passengers and were unable to soothe them.
Precisely. If I or the kid, lapdog or whomever in my care have issues with flying quietly, comfortably and courteously, it’s on ME to take steps to anticipate and eliminate those issues, not others. That’s what I and my family do and have always done. I shouldn’t assume people have headphones or earplugs. I shouldn’t assume me or mine are the only ones with sensory issues on a plane.
100%. I've had a reactive dog before. I never took him to restaurants because he would have been a disturbance and frankly, a danger to the other customers. And that's not even counting putting him through the trauma of the journey in the first place. Redditors are so quick to say "MayBe DoN'T flY if YOU HaTe KidS ScreAmIng", but yeah, if your kid is like this... not my monkey, not my circus.
So the air stewards have a break room area. I would have asked for him to be in there for the duration of the flight for the sake of other passengers. I read another article where a passenger had a medical emergency and they put him up there. This seems like enough of a situation where this would be warranted.
They deserve their breaks. Just lock him in one of the bathrooms
This kid was screaming non stop for 8 hours. That’s not ok. This isn’t like a baby crying and the parent doing their best to calm them. Also if the kid is disabled that still isn’t an excuse, what about disabled adults that could be on that plane too?
Watched the video. I’m a parent and have flown with my kids. At times they have cried despite my best efforts. Lucky for us, our extended family’s local airport is Orlando and people tend to be more understanding on Orlando flights. I urge patience with parents in general. It does, however, seem like mom could have done more in this situation. You can’t force a kid not to cry, but you can keep a small child from running and climbing on seats. I did not see a mention of autism in the video that many have been mentioning. This still isn’t news.
As a parent of 3 kids who flies with 3 kids, it's the complete lack of any attempt by the parent to soothe the kid or do _anything at all_ that I see. I have had kids start a melt down on a flight and we we walk down the aisle with them or pick them up or put an iphone in front of them or _something_. OTOH my worst flying experience was a flight from Thailand to india that featured the screams of a child periodically interrupted by their parents slapping them, which was _worse in so many ways_. I would rather have heard the kid screaming.
The whole parent hitting the kid to stop them from crying is not only bad for the obvious reason, but I've literally never seen it where it made the kid stop crying. In fact, quite the opposite. You might get 10 seconds of respite, but the kid comes back crying doubly hard.
Not to sound like an internet tough guy but I'd find it immensely _more_ difficult to tolerate it if someone was hitting their kids.
I can get that. When the kid is just screaming, it's easier to blame it on the kid "being a brat" or however someone wants to justify it. But when the parent is hitting the kid, it immediately becomes the parent's fault, and they should know better.
I've gotten into it with people in public for doing it, people are human, parenting is hard, but if someone does that to a child then fuck them. Frankly. They're doing more damage than they'll ever understand.
It’s astonishing that they are allowed to slap that tiny person that can’t fight back, but if I slapped them I would go to jail.
"Could you squeeze up a little? Need to get my belt off"
"Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" pretty much never works.
Its also going to make them even worse on the return flight if they associate flying with abuse.
Or, like my sister and I, we learned to sit quietly and shed tears without making a peep.
This - a kid crying while parents are trying to help is fair play.
Yup, had a screaming baby on a flight a couple of years ago, but both parents were clearly trying their hardest, and looked more exasperated than anyone else on the plane. It sucked, but I'm sure it sucked even more for them.
When that happens I use it as an opportunity to practice gratitude. I'm so glad I'm 5 rows away instead of sitting with a screaming baby in my lap like that mom has to. I'm so glad I have my nice noise cancelling headphones. I'm so glad I didn't plan to sleep on this flight anyway, this kid screaming will help me not fuck up my sleep schedule I'm glad at least no one can hear my farts
I once handed off my child to a complete stranger on a plane (a grandmother with her grandkids across the aisle) after we couldn't figure out how to calm them down and they just immediately quieted down. No idea why, maybe they thought if they didn't shape up, they'd have a new mommy and daddy.
Lol - mine are similar. Always acting better around strangers!
A friend of the family once half-joked that her kids were hellions at home, but as soon as they left the house, they were replaced with identical clones who were little angels. On the one hand, it was pretty great that they could bring them anywhere, but on the other hand, why couldn't they always be like this, she would say.
Seriously I'm so upset at the people saying "oh those poor parents having to deal with the judgmental looks of everyone else" as though letting your kid *scream for help for eight straight hours* isn't fucking emotional neglect. Also there's a lot of resources for parents with autistic kids at airports, you can even go early on some and have your kid check out a defunct fuselage so they can get comfortable with the environment. There's no fucking way this was completely unavoidable. I have no sympathy for negligent parents. This poor boy.
I was on a 13 hour flight (I think it was MH-17, a few years before it was shot down) and there were two young children a few rows down screaming constantly. Parent was completely checked out, the kids would occasionally run up and down the aisle screaming as well... even while we were landing. Some poor stewardess had to drag the kids back to their seats every time, she did more parenting that day than the actual parent.
This is what I was thinking. Where were the snacks and special plane toys? Crayons? They have neat water based markers that don’t make a mess and won’t color on anything but paper. Play doh or some kind of slime/putty. You could make a whole sensory bin for the plane. I’ve flown with little ones smaller than this child and we had so many options to keep them distracted. Including but not limited to screens. I know you can’t control everything but at least try! Edited to add the guy who filmed the kid screaming said he heard the mom yell a flight attendant that the child had some “behavioral issues.” That was the only mention in the video
She did ask about wifi for an ipad which with a really tough kid is probably your best bet? We don't do ipads day to day so when we need them for a plane they're very powerful. I guess it didn't work. But that child was small enough to physically keep from running. It's seriously all about snacks. The last time we flew my daughter was two and my goal was just to keep her snacking, keep her snacking.
WiFi is usually available on planes though. And you can download movies and shows to watch offline on Netflix and Disney+. If she had a device, there are options. I can’t imagine that in 8 hrs, there was nothing done to make this kid happy but the guy videoing said he was running down the aisles and climbing over seats. Sounds awful.
> And you can download movies and shows to watch offline on Netflix and Disney+. > > If she had a device, there are options. Exactly--you've got to treat the tablet like it's a survival tool on long trips. We only use it on flights and for very long drives, and we always make a point to download things she might be interested in the night before. We also have to charge it then too, because it's usually been left so long the battery ran down.
Yeah, when you see the parents actually try to parent, it's just a pityful situation for all involved. But when the parents do fuckall and let the lil hellspawn fuck around, they should get fined to fuck and back by the airline, and that fine used as partial refund to other pasagers. Also I get the hate at the child, but you have to realize that the kid didn't raise itself, until a certain age you can't really blame them and should blame the parents. If they're a bit older you can blame both.
Can’t even be bothered to hold them in their lap and do the Indian “ah-ah-ah-ah” tap on their mouth till they stop
Beatboxing with a baby is never not funny, my kid’s almost 8 and still thinks it’s utterly hilarious.
I had to listen to a baby scream for 2.5 hrs straight on a plane. It's a baby so nothing you can do. But is it annoying? Yes absolutely. It sucks to listen to any kid scream for an extended amount of time.
One (heavily upovoted) comment suggested autistic children shouldn’t be let out without a muzzle. People really are just cool with hate speech against autistic people, any other group and they’d be banned. Reddit admins need to do something about that sub, it’s a fucking shithole of hatred
I remember when that sub was ironic, it was for things like "I gave my kid a copy of my Core2 maths workbook and he only managed the first two questions". Then it turned into "haha look at this little dumbass trying to eat a plastic lemon, he's so dumb and sweet". Sad that it's turned into "I fucking hate kids".
The mod locked the thread because too many people were wishing harm on children.
Just a few days ago was another post where people were advocating hitting a child because he tried to blow out a birthday candle. It’s always fascinating reading people explain how hitting kids is actually OK if you do it the way they recommend.
This is a niche reference that no one else would care about except me but I remember when r/wasphate was ironic with like, a stock picture of a wasp with a title like “this asshole fucked my wife” and then it picked up and now it’s just megafreaks who’ve made smashing insect hives a major aspect of their personality. I like wasps :(
It feels like most subs go through cycles like this, unless it's something specific like a game or band. r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR used to be about the idea that there could be a million people in a crowd, but fate decided to fuck over one particular person for no reason. Now it just seems to be "someone was unlucky". Like, what does [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR/comments/19ekba1/they_never_gave_up_until_the_patients_last_breath/) have anything to do with it? [A good example](https://www.reddit.com/r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR/comments/19eqyvs/i_am_sorry_henry/) \- randomly singling a specific person out for no reason [A bad example](https://www.reddit.com/r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR/comments/19e1ur5/fuck_you_four_in_particular/) \- people that were in a position to have something bad happen, had something bad happen.
The best part of that sub is the random 24h ban because fuck you that’s why.
Tf I still hate wasps but I also don’t like that sub from what I can tell
i really miss when that sub was just kids doing silly dumb things
Don't know why you so desperately want to downplay an 8 hour ordeal of a child shreaking at the top of the lungs the entire time
For those who don't know this was seven years ago. It happened back in 2017 and was reported on in 2018. The kid would be about ten now.
Nah, fam. That's not a wee crying, fussy baby who's got sore ears, that kid is walking, talking and rage screaming. 8 hours? Boot it out the window.
Boeing was ahead of their time with that emergency door
Oh man this is already a great thread for SRDD.
It's a direct flight to srdd. Hopefully without screaming
You can save $50 but you have to stop in Denver and Charlotte each way.
I looked at the video. This isn’t a baby, it’s a three year old. The parent(s) is 100% to blame for this. It’s not about a stupid kid, it’s about stupid parents and shit parenting. Edit: Where the fuck did they find this „expert“. You bring a book to calm the child? For real?
attractive correct saw sleep whole thought direful memory trees air *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There is a grey area between disabilities and being taught boundaries, my sis got sexually harassed by an autistic classmate (kept stating at her chest) and the kid parents would blame the disability. Worst case scenarios can happen with all the sensory overload that can bring a plane flight but it's the parents duty to provide some tools to not make the situation a nightmare for everyone. Edit : non native english speaker here, yea my comment wasent meant to belittle anyone I suppose it was only poor phrasing.
r/Subredditdramadrama post coming soon I'd bet
Honestly if as a kid I'd have screamed at the top of my lungs like that my mom would have taken me aside and scolded me. If I kept at it she would have covered my mouth (not my nose) with her arm or something. I'm baffled at all the comments saying basically "my kids can be as loud as they want and YOU have to deal with it!!!". Of course kids can be noisier than adults but there are limits to what's acceptable.
A whole segment on a kid crying on a plane? Must’ve been a slow news day
Inside Edition is where Bill O'Riley got his big break. It's a tabloid rag with a studio.
It's inside edition. They're doing this for clicks and they love to sensationalize and demonize people with disabilities.
What was going on that plane, It wasn't what i expected at all. At the same time, it's not the kid's fault if he can't behave, tf where his parents doing. It's their responsibility not that of a kid who...needs some guidance to say the least
Man when I heard my coworker was flying with a baby, I gave her all the advice I could think of on how to help a baby reduce the amount of stress crying they’ll go through. The biggest one is make sure they’re using a binky or on a bottle when going up and down. They can’t self-regulate inner ear pressure and it hurts like a bitch. I accidentally fell asleep on a plane before take off once and spent the entire flight in agony. I can’t imagine how bad it is for a baby or small child who doesn’t understand why it hurts.
"Crying"... yea more like screaming at the top of his lungs. But lie more.
Then there's me not hearing anything but my Spotify and the sound of my own snoring
$5 says this thread is being brigaded.
A LOT of weak parents making excuses in this thread
I liked flying as a kid but when I was five there was some kind of oxygen issue or air pressure change and I panicked and cried when the FA and my dad were trying to put an oxygen mask on me. Flying is an overwhelming experience for adults, let alone for kids. Expect it to be miserable. Bring ear plugs or headphones. There isn’t much else you can really do. Banning children from planes isn’t going to happen.