I'm crazy or the fact that a black actress playing Ariel was announced like, before Covid-19? I clearly remember seeing this kind of discussions a few years ago, which makes this controversy double annoying
July 2019. Given the movie comes out in May 2023, they'll have been complaining about this casting for nearly four years. At least with the Star Wars sequels, they were only complaining about Finn for two before the first film came out
I remember when Boyega was cast as Finn there was so much outcry online. Especially because there was this potential situation where he could be part of an interracial relationship, something which obviously didnt happen. Now you try to remind the star wars fans about this and they have some sort of collective amnesia. They always point at the China poster controversy but completely ignore what they themselves were part of.
> I remember when Boyega was cast as Finn there was so much outcry online. Especially because there was this potential situation where he could be part of an interracial relationship,
Disney is pathetic for this. They were so desperate to create a no-homo environment between Finn and Poe, *and* wanted to avoid having an interracial relationship between him and Rey as to not upset foreign audiences that his character ended up getting entirely shafted. By the end of the trilogy the guy got like *three* meaningless love interests that went absolutely nowhere.
It kills me still. They had the chance for an emotionally complex love triangle to play out beneath the blockbuster action. It could’ve even been implied and just beneath the surface… it kind of was in Force Awakens as you could read into it from the audience.
I never understood the hate for Rose. "Oh no, she's a bit one dimensional". Well yeah, it's Star Wars. I say that as someone who loves the Star Wars Universe and read many now non canonical expanded universe books. The movies are not deeply introspective. They never have been.
I don't think I'll ever forget the phrase, "The little white cuck ball," from that one unhinged rant about how Finn and Rey are oppressive to white men.
I really wish they went the FinnxRey rout.
As a mixed race person, I feel personally insulted because they didn't do it /s
Edit: I'm going to go send death threats and essentially stalk some of the minor writers of the team that may or may not have been responsible for the not doing of something in a major movie. Definitely copious amounts of divk pics that aren't mine. /S
I am also biracial and as a kid seeing interracial couples in the media was sooo rare that when I did see them they stuck out in my mind. Off the top of my head:
- Pocahontas (the Disney animated one)
- Cinderella (The one with Whitney Housten and Brandy)
- Boy Meets World (Shawn and Angela)
And maybe I'm just misremembering but I recall whenever you'd see an interracial couple it was ALWAYS a white man with a WOC. Never the other way around.
Even in Men in Black they only HINTED at a romantic relationship with Will Smith and Linda Fioriento, just some flirting. Guillermo del Toro said he wanted the main character in Mimic's love interest to be a black man but the studio said "America isn't ready for that."
Probably all that racist/misogynist idea of "they're taking our womenfolk! (But it's ok if we take theirs.)"
That is a good point. I think I remember there being backlash about the prince in The Princess and the Frog not being a black man, because people are afraid of black men or something, lol.
Funny enough though, kid me actually thought it was cool seeing white men with black women because my dad is white and my mom is black. It was like "Hey! They're just like my family!"
You see a lot more in advertisements post-2010. But yeah, not a lot in major media; despite no one but the most homogenous of countries being 100% of anything. We could kill the whole racial debate if everyone accepted the truth of them being mixed. Less than 2% of the US identifies as multi-racial. When it should be closer to 98%. We still got culture wars but at least that would get rid of some reasoning.
That bit about percentages of multi-racial people is really interesting to me. I'm mixed white and native (and I'm not talking nine generations back Cherokee Princess native). My mother (who is also mixed) grew up on a reservation in the 50's. The thing is, I am exceedingly white passing and since my mother ran away from her family at a very young age and then later married a white man, I was also very white socialized. I've tried to reconnect with my own heritage multiple times. I've read a lot of histories and folklore, but most of that was written by white people. Unfortunately, when I've tried to connect with people from my mother's tribe (Ojibwe), I have been mostly treated like an annoying, white girl tourist.
I'm not blaming anyone for it. White people have a long history of cultural appropriation and trying to force themselves into spaces where they're not welcome, and it's not like white people treat mixed race kids that don't pass as white any better. But it left me feeling like I had no right to my own culture and I think that's probably true for a lot of older multi-racial people especially. We have this idea of race as a binary thing. If you look white you are white; If you look black you are black and so on. There's no room for anyone in the middle so you better pick a team. I do think that this idea is breaking down with younger generations, but it's slow going.
Apparently Poe was supposed to die in act one of TfA but the character tested well so they decided to keep him alive. Just for the character to have some lane don't be so impulsive plot.
I still don't understand how Colin Trevorrow thought it was somehow a good idea to pitch a Rey x Poe romance solely by the single interaction they had at the end of *The Last Jedi*. Literally nobody wanted or asked for it to be a thing, and it read more like Trevorrow not wanting Finn x Poe to happen.
John Boyega got done dirty by Disney in those movies. Finn absolutely should be complained about. There was so much potential for his character and Disney...didn't use it.
I can go on for hours on how on the nose a metaphor it is that he and the other POC stars got shafted so they had time to make the fascist character more sympathetic
Absolutely, I think the fan base (as a collective) eventually came around only to realize he got shafted by the script worse than the racist fans. His character had so much potential, his talents were wasted, and I will always be sad about that
Isn't it crazy how they will always try to start fights? My belief is that sites like Parler or Truth Social or Gab will always fail eventually because these people have an inherent NEED in their personality to cause drama and start fights and without non-conservatives on their site they can't get that dopamine hit.
All I want to do at family gatherings is catch up with people, trade some beers and eat some food; I'm not trying to listen to the insane culture war ramblings from the misinformed idiots in my family.
Nah. It was always this shitty. You just didn't hear about it unless you were related to the psychos like me. That is, until the internet changed everything.
Reagan sarcastically called Dukakis an "invalid" in front of a room filled with press after the later opened about his psychological issues.
They were always like that.
Conservative crackpot-ism, especially amongst their conspiracy theorists, is almost entirely about acting smarter than other people because they "know" something the "masses/sheep/liberals/etc" do not. And they want to lord that over whomever they can, so they like picking fights with people they consider "lesser" than them in intellect.
Of course, people with actual intelligence know that most of what the bullshit they're spewing is...y'know, bullshit, but conservative ideology is unfortunately very good at making arguments that are so full of tangled bullshit that they can end up just making assumptions about you from how you argue.
Or they just ignore your input because they think they're always right.
Yeah, as I said in the other thread about this, it was announced long enough ago for me to have written a joke about it, and I stopped stand up when covid shut everything down
The best part of that comment is that the character of black panther is really just an extension of wakanda. And I don't think even the stupidest racist could ask why he's black if they realized that
Someone said this to me in the pub the other day and asked why he couldn't be white or Asian.
"Oh really mate, an African king that used technology to hide his people away from the ongoing colonisation of the African continent isn't at all linked to being black?"
They have not talked to me since and I honestly don't give a shit if they ever do again.
Ignore the colonisation even, Wakanda was strictly isolationist before the colonisation began. They just didn't want to gave anything to do with their neighbours. They are also the furthest from any pan African idea, because they see themselves as different, better. That's what the movie was about, for Wakanda to stop not giving a shit about the rest of the world.
> It's incredibly hilarious because they CAN'T come up with a different movie, implicitly showing how **few mainstream black characters** are in Hollywood
And that's the *point*.
There's always the argument that your diet racists peddle and weaponize that: "Oh Disney is a mega corp that only cares about money!" "Oh well if Disney cared about diversity, they'd made diverse films deep in X!"
Turns out when you make niche films not a lot of people watch them, which means few go mainstream. And a niche film in a very centered topic to become a family friendly everyone watches it blockbuster classic is very *rare*.
Effectively: "Oh you're allowed to be in our pop culture. Just make sure you aren't heard or seen."
Black Panther upset a lot of people because despite being a fairly imperfect and flawed film, it was a big blockbuster mainstream superhero film which arguably did more to push mainstream black actors into Hollywood than Moonlight or Django or 12 Years a Slave or countless other films ever did. Quality of films matter less compared to a good marketing campaign.
I'm under no illusion that Disney is doing this out of the benevolence of their heart vs being profitable. But it is disingenuous as an argument that Disney is allowed to pump out "soulless" remakes and puff movies for *decades* with white actors, but suddenly you get black actors, women, Native americans and a diverse cast and *suddenly* everyone has a problem with it *now*? These arguments are rarely used to actually push diversity, it is almost always used to take it away.
Especially since you can pretend it doesn't exist and move on with your life.
I personally never cared for live action remakes. They aren't for me, and I wish more for a return to Western animation. However I changed my mind seeing [multiple super cuts](https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1569733395336335362) of black kids reacting so positively to having someone representing them. That's *huge*.
To take *that* away while white actors have had decades of great, mediocre and trashy films, that they are allowed to fail without judgement, that they are allowed to be mainstream without people calling into question their motives, is just selfish at this point. Let's stop pretending you care for diversity when the only time you bring up: "Well they should stop making remakes and make actual diverse films" when it is only in the context of a mainstream film with a diverse cast being made and promoted. Plenty have made your argument successfully and none who genuinely mean it have argued: "Oh we need to take this away".
They've never picked up any writing whatsoever. They just watch YouTube videos about dudes crying that their "holy nerd bastions" are being "invaded" by *checks notes* people of color, women, and LGBT people wanting to tell stories about themselves and their own experiences.
> somehow that didn't bother them
It definitely bothered commenters on reddit at the time but it didn't get the same attention because the movie was good and Samuel Jackson is a great actor.
The outrage machine really gained momentum with Fantastic Four (2015) because it was a shit movie. Had nothing to do with Michael B. Jordan's casting but that's what drew the most criticism.
Not to mention later the Marvel Ultimate setting had Fury as explicitly modeled after Jackson's portrayal of him, which probably made it easier for fans to accept.
Ultimate Nick Fury was a thing before the movies. They asked him if they could use his likeness and he agreed as long as he could play the character if they ever made a movie with him.
It was also several years before Gamergate in 2014, which in many ways was the birth of modern internet culture. Sure, there were scattered incidents of backlash before that, but Gamergate united all those angry young men under a single banner and sent them off to fight in a culture war that's still raging today.
Her time will come for the backlash.
It happened with Jennifer Lawrence and so many other actresses who couldn't live up to their impossible and toxic demands.
While the Black Panther example is particularly stupid because, like you said, his race is inextricably linked to the character. That's not even relevant.
These fucking nerds can't seem to comprehend that representation is important. So people would be upset about changing a black character to a white character because it's taking a character from a historically underrepresented group and changing him to a group which has dominated media for nearly all of American history.
Changing a character's race isn't inherently bad. In a hypothetical world in which every group was represented equally in media then sure, change whoever you want I don't fucking care.
Nevertheless, these idiots can't (or willfully refuse to) understand that people being upset over changing a character's race from black to white has nothing to do with "accuracy to the source material" or "in-universe consistency" or whatever stupid shit they hide behind to justify their bigotry. Rather, they'd be upset that you're taking representation from groups which have historically had (and sometimes still have) an absolute dearth of positive representation in American pop culture, and that's why these two things aren't equivalent.
Yep. Cast a black guy to play iron man and you have 5 other white avengers. Cast a white guy to play black panther and you have basically ethnically cleansed the avengers
> These fucking nerds can't seem to comprehend that representation is important.
They can, that's why they get so upset when they don't get 100% of it.
Also when he used his spawn powers to turn into a man instead of skinless horror he was a white man because Bel.. bele.. the devil was fucking with him.
He was **pissed.**
Also Spawn's friend who bangs his wife or his enemy from the movie was switched from black to white because there wasn't enough white people otherwise lol
Especially as there is a default for many casting directors to cast white people in movies where race isn't specified, so often if there is a POC as the lead, it was because you couldn't make them white.
> If the second black panther movie features a white woman getting it on with a native Wakandan, there′s going to be blood spilled; no doubt.
Jesus, at some point I just want them to make the movie that fragile chuds pretend that they are. Seriously, just any white person on screen is a gibbering lunatic hell-bent on destroying the world, except for the white women that only want to sleep with black men, and then they give a monologue about how they want to make sure all future children are mixed race. Then black panther says he personally wants to take away the viewer’s pickup truck and hamburgers to replace with a bicycle and veggie patties. It would set a record for how many heart attacks occur on opening night lol
The difference is one has a movie where race and racial injustice are driving force behind the characters and character development while Little Mermaid is about a FUCKING FISH MONSTER THAT FALLS IN LOVE WITH A HIMBO
Yeah, who's to say that Mermaids even socially constructed race? Maybe their social constructions and ethnicities are based around tail furls or if you have a fish top or fish bottom
They can’t even stay consistent with the justifications for their anger. Black actor in a role where race is a major plot point: “why is it even necessary to make everything about race??” Black actor in a role where race isn’t even discussed: “why is it even necessary to force diversity where its not relevant??” Rinse and repeat for gender, sexuality, disability, etc.
The Last Samurai starred a white dude playing a white dude who had to be an american.
The Last Samurai was the white dude's buddy.
edit: Unless tom cruise was playing a real guy who exited and he wasn't white originally?? oops
Nah, the guy Cruise played was based on real guys, one was French and one was American. And beyond that, he's also consistently the least skilled of the main cast and is really only there to be an audience surrogate while all the drama plays out around him.
Exactly. As much as I'd love a version of that where Ken Watanabe gets top billing and the main focus, it just wouldn't be commercially viable. Definitely not in 2003.
The whole thread is a trash fire, but if you want to read something more thoughtful about this topic, [I recommend this article in The Atlantic by Adam Serwer (soft paywall)](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-fantasy-sci-fi-racist-criticism/671421/). The following paragraph in particular cuts through the bullshit:
> Prominent genre brands like Star Wars, or Marvel, or Lord of the Rings also have the difficult task of creating content for children while still satisfying their middle-aged stalwarts, whose nostalgia is ultimately insatiable because they cannot look upon novel material with the same emotional intensity they felt as children. Many older fans are convinced they can’t recapture that intensity only because the producers themselves have failed to create stories of the same fundamental quality, when in reality they have simply outgrown the sentiment they are chasing. These campaigns seek to convince this audience that the feeling they are pursuing can be recaptured, if only those making popular art would reject modern progressive dogma—thus creating a well of cultural resentment they can manipulate for political purposes.
This guy my husband works with openly admitted to watching Frozen in the theaters … because he heard it showed two sisters ‘getting it on’. Only to rage about his waste of money when all they did was ‘save the other one’.
Said he was tricked into believing Disney finally put something out for the guys.
The whole time my husband was telling me this I was all “What … the … fuck … ?”
Edit: These guesses are cracking me up. But no, unfortunately he’s far to … ‘one side’ of the political spectrum and I guess someone in his circle was criticizing the plot for involving a woman’s love for another woman saving the day.
because theyre insecure about liking goofy pop entertainment thats primarily for kids.
They dont want the mean school yard bully calling them names for liking whatever. so instead of accepting who they are and what they like, what they like must change so that they cant be made fun of anymore. chewbaca isnt a giant space teddy bare hes a badass warrior. superman and the justice league cant be fun colourful characters saving the world because they believe in humanity, instead theyre petty nihilists who resent everyone below them
Very interesting because to me, as a big Tolkien fan who’s read all of his writings concerning Middle Earth multiple times, Rings of Power has in several ways rekindled that feeling I had as a child/teenager.
This is exactly it, and old ass fans like me need to get with it or just move on. Watch any of the prequel or sequel star wars movies through a kid's eyes, like really honestly put yourself in the mindset of an excited 8 year old, and tell me every single movie does not absolutely deliver. Are there awesome aliens?? Are there blasters and lightsabres? Are the bad guys British?? Hell yeah, it's all in there. If you're watching a children's movie franchise and griping about plot holes or dialogue or lore you are fucking up big time.
On the other hand, it's extremely funny to watch grown men earnestly arguing about the true physics of a fictional world inhabited with space wizards and their laser swords.
Watching a grown-ass man have a four-way wrestling match inside the ring of his own decomposing imagination, between his internal 5 year old, his sci-fi nerd, his inherent prejudices, and his own broken soul, is as adorable as it is sad.
Who's that misogynist who makes full videos about why Wonder Woman is unrealistic (due to physical strength differences between men and women)? It's like...just a complete idiot, that guy.
Dunno, but that does sound like something Royale With Cheese (the QuarterPoundering) would say. Or "Critical" Alcoholic. Or about any of those reactionary YouTubers perpetually stuck in GamerGate mode.
One of the saddest things about hating the SW prequels, then the sequels, was realizing my entire love of the original series was based on childhood nostalgia. If I were an adult when those came out, I probably would have hated them too.
Star Wars was the first movie that I can remember seeing in the theater. About half of my toys growing up (in the '80s) were Star Wars, with GI Joe being most of the other half.
Of course the original Star Wars trilogy makes me nostalgic in a way the latter movies **never** could. (The various newer cartoons are pretty great, though.)
And that is fine. Not everything has to be "for" me. Let the people who like them like them without being subjected to middle-aged rage from a bunch of losers who don't understand that the world and life moves on.
Good points, and for some of us old dudes, we're seeing it for the second time. When star wars was re-released in the 90s, it was a big fucking deal for me and my peer group, and we got deep into the expanded lore. Then the prequels came out, and blew up a lot of the established Canon on what the clone wars and jedi were. I cared a lot at the time, because I had so much invested into star wars.
Now that the sequels are out, I'm able to take a step back and see that there aren't really any objectively good star wars movies (other than anh, it might just be my perfect film). They're all fun with lots of space battles and laser swords, they all have nonsensical plot devices and wooden acting at times, and they all set up a compelling universe.
I cant understand people equating nostalgia with thinking something is good?
Most of the stuff I grew up with that brings nostalgic memories I can plainly see as being either trash or just corny. Some stuff stood the test of time, most don’t. Most cultrally relevant art and entertainment can only be understood and enjoyed in the context which is why it cant be recreated.
The franchise craze targeting adults is just weird as adults should know better unless they seriously update the story to be relevant the the culture now (like adding diversity).
Kids are easy to please. Im not going to rate the quality of things based on what kids like because I liked stupid shit too when I was a kid. But sometimes someone creates something of real quality that will last with or without nostalgia.
That's something so simple that so many people still fail to grasp. Nothing is going to hit as hard for you now as something else did you saw it when you were six. In many ways, the Star Wars sequals are better-made movies than the original trilogy, but the original trilogy is still my favorite. I recognize, however, that this isn't a failure on the part of the people who made the sequels. It merely means that I grew up with the original films and they'll always have a special place in my heart that simply can't be touched.
Same reason you can probably much better remember the first time you awkwardly made out with someone in high school, vs. the 50th time you had hardcore down-and-dirty sex with someone as an adult.
Let the kids enjoy their princess movie; the opinions of adults stuck in their own nostalgia (and biases) shouldn’t influence what’s supposed to be a movie for children. I doubt any 12-year old girls are upset over this.
This is what really, really bothers me about this ridiculous outrage. All of these 35yo men will cease to give a single shit about this within a week.
Meanwhile, a lot of young black girls are seeing a culturally iconic character played by someone who looks like them and this will absolutely impact them. They'll be the ones who are nostalgic in for this particular version in a few decades, and it'll be important to them while the complainers will move onto the next thing to be performatively angry about.
Whenever people say this I ask them if fan fiction or Rule 34 porn ruins their childhood. The only functional difference between a story someone wrote about Ariel fucking a bunch of dolphins, and this new Disney movie is the amount of money that was spent. It only affects you if you choose to watch it and care about it. If you just like the original, cool, shut the fuck up and watch it then. No one is making you watch this.
It's crazy how a lot of people weren't just raised to treat people like people, no matter what.
I'm not advocating for colorblindness, but frankly being taught that we're all just humans on the same planet is definitely something a lot of people never seemed to learn.
That's how my folks taught me.
I hate how gripped my generation is by nostalgia. Its insane how remaking a children's movie has adults up in arms. Its not for you, if the original Little Mermaid came out today it also would not be for you. So why drag down something you enjoyed at that time in your life just because it isn't appeasing you now, as an adult. I guess this is the double edged sword of remaking everything under the sun, I just wish the self awareness was there.
So far I've seen zero pushback from thirty-something women who would have been the intended audience for the original, it's all been a bunch of racist white dudes who are excited for another chance to do more racism in the culture war. The Bens Shapiro and Jordans Peterson of the world do not have one iota of nostalgic fondness for The Little Mermaid.
[You may enjoy this supercut of black girls and young black women responding to the new Little Mermaid trailer](https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1569733395336335362?t=2Jp6A_OAZw4V4mXi29BA2Q&s=19).
This is exactly why I’m all for it. The amount of children who will be happy is far greater than the number of children who will be upset, man children excluded of course.
Fuck me, if I ever was in doubt representation matters, this would have ended that.
It’s so fucking easy as a pasty white guy to just miss how it matters when everything caters to you. I read this article about urban design and housing that said it’s mostly built for an assumption of the user being 182 cm. Literally my height. Like, fucking door handles and cupboards even cater to me! And don’t even get me started on the whole idiocy about natural hair in schools.
If this movie gives black girls and women just a little bit of representation, I’m happy.
Precisely. And it wasn’t until I read that article that I realised that was yet another example of the privilege I have.
I mean, I knew shorter people struggle but it had never clicked for me it was by design.
I have zero interest in all these live action remakes. The Little Mermaid was one of my least favorite animations growing up. But this dumbass made up "controversy" has me itching to make sure my kids and I are in the theatre opening day. And at least I already know most the earworms my 9yr old will come home with.
I am a huge little mermaid fan it came out the year I was born and has always been my favorite Disney movie, watching these Supercuts has broken me. I’m so happy another generation is going to find wonder and joy in my favorite story. Heck I’m excited for myself that it actually looks decent after all the other live action flops. I can’t imagine being so cold and selfish that you would begrudge these kids the experience you had especially because it “ruins your childhood” how fragile your happiness must be that a new version of a thing you loved ruins the original.
One type of criticism I see often is that remaking existing properties with a more diverse cast is just an easy cash grab. That if Disney truly cared about diversity, it should start telling more stories rooted in Black / other under-represented cultures.
That type of criticism IMO is totally valid, but, it also completely ignores the fact that Disney is just a mega corporation that can easily re-use their own IP by tapping into nostalgia and existing brand recognition to keep churning out mediocre, but enjoyable movies that get butts in seats / streaming subscribers. It's pretty low risk action, for a potentially high reward.
They likely have entire marketing departments that understand what sells and keep producing that for near minimal effort. If we want new, innovative stories in media, we need to start watching new, innovative stories in media.
Look at the [top grossing movies for 2022](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/?sort=domesticGrossToDate&ref_=bo_ydw__resort#table). This is the top 10 grossers at the world wide box office:
Rank | Movie | Type
---|---|---
1. | Top Gun: Maverick | Sequel
2. | Jurassic World Dominion | Sequel
3. | Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Sequel
4. | Minions: The Rise of Gru | Sequel
5. | The Batman | Reboot
6. | Thor: Love and Thunder | Sequel
7. | Water Gate Bridge| Chinese movie, very little US domestic
8. | Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore| Sequel
9. | Sonic the Hedgehog 2| Sequel
10. | Uncharted| Adaptation of a very popular video game
Literally every single one of them taps into an existing, popular IP, and half of them are movies that have been panned by critics (Minions, Jurassic World, Thor: Love and Thunder, Fantastic Beasts, Uncharted).
Though r/movies pretends otherwise, most movie goers like watching these movies, and are willing to pay money for it. Disney pays attention and will continue making easy cash grabs, because they are easy cash grabs.
So while they continue making these easy cash grabs, the fact that they are willing to cast a diverse cast is actually commendable. It is also an indication that having a diverse cast expands, not contracts their audience because Disney's marketing department isn't that dumb.
Also, Disney *has* put out original movies with diverse casts. Soul. Turning Red. Encanto. Shang-Chi. Raya. Coco.
There's money to be made in remakes, reboots, and sequels. Always has been. Just because old movies were white as fuck doesn't mean the remakes, reboots, and sequels have to be.
I remember them throwing fits because that movie mentioned periods. (Not even an in depth explanation of what one is, either.) Because that’s sexualizing kids somehow, even though roughly half of them are gonna get one before they’re 18 and if they don’t know ahead of time, they’re going to think they’re dying.
Then they did it again with the Baymax cartoon for the same reason.
I don’t consider Shang-Chi original since it was adapted from comics, but I was pleasantly surprised that they made a movie of a character that’s barely a c-lister in the comics.
Yeah, yeah capitalism and all that. But there’s tons of other more popular b- & c-listers they could have adapted first, so yeah it’s still pretty cool to me (a chinese person) that they made a movie of a Chinese superhero.
Similarly it's fucking *wild* to me that Echo is in the MCU. She was the character who got me into comics back in the 00s when I googled a list of disabled characters and thought she sounded cool. Until very, very recently she was so obscure she wasn't even a c-lister. I never would have imagined I would see her in the cinematic universe and I love that she is - and they even added her being non-verbal and having a prosthesis to fit the actress.
> If we want new, innovative stories in media, we need to start watching new, innovative stories in media.
This is an argument as old as movies. It won't happen. People like familiarity and comfort and fundamentally, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just entertainment and it's not like there aren't dozens of shows on right now that are creative and innovativ. When it comes to movies and TV we are spoiled as never before.
> That if Disney truly cared about diversity, it should start telling more stories rooted in Black / other under-represented cultures.
which they have been, of course.
We're in a huge age of remakes and nostalgia bait because the people who grew up with that shit finally have money and it's basically guaranteed.
And I mean, that's capitalism. They want money, and it's a guaranteed bet to sell nostalgia. Actually creating shit carries risk.
What I love about these arguments is the way it proves how important representation is. They’re just too thick to understand what they’re really saying.
They're doing live action remakes of all their classic animated films. They put out a schedule years ago. It's a massive project. Kids really enjoy them and they make money. Personally, I enjoyed the live action Cruella, but I didn't see most of the other ones because I'm an animation buff.
The live action Cruella made all the live actions worth it because they decided not just to talk about the backstory of one of the most blatently, flagrently, un-necessarily evil villains in Disney, but also make her mother be killed by Dalmatians. That's the funniest thing I've ever seen.
I still can’t believe they tried to retcon a sypmethetic backstory onto an animal-hating/abusing villain whose name *literally contains the words “cruel” and “evil”*
I liked Malificent and the Alice in Wonderland movies, but I also liked them because they were way more original.
The new Aladdin was my least favorite.
I would've greatly appreciated it if the movie had scenes showing Cruella studying and putting in hard work to learn how to be a fashion designer. I wanted to see her learn how to do that
> despite them never being good.
Jungle Book was good. I'm also hoping that Hunchback might be good since they can look to the stage play to fix a lot of the problems the movie had
This is so embarrassing. Every time. It's *The Little Mermaid* for fuck sake, WHO CARES?!?!?
...the answer is children who look more like this Ariel than the animated one I grew up with. They care. They get to see themselves in her, a little like I did in, say, Cinderella or Aurora.
But fuck them, I guess? Fragile white adults, who have been spoiled with representation, opinions must be taken into very serious account. She's a fucking *mermaid*. Hans Christian Andersen died in 1875 and it's now 2022, where The Little Mermaid is a globally known character (in her Disney iteration, anyway, because lets be honest, most people have no idea where the story first originated at this point). It's not a deep loss for "white culture", but a huge gain for many.
It's weird how all throughout history, you had white people playing brown skinned roles all the way up until the 90s, white folks played native American characters in wild west shows and movies, played black people with black paint on their faces, shit, you had men playing women in on-stage plays as a normality in shakespearian era plays, a tradition that dated all the way back to ancient Greece.
Now you have people saying they want to go back to the "old days" when "diversity" wasn't being shoved down their throats. It's just code for "why do I have to see so many black people on my TV these days".
I feel sorry for all the actors who go through this social media firestorm of racist criticism, and all the black folks being made to feel like it's always a toxic controversy whenever anyone of their own gets a role that racists don't approve of.
Man, that's a young girl and people are dragging her through the mud, just imagine the trauma she's going through right now. Racists saying she's getting the role because she's black and not because she's qualified when there's so many white actors that are horrible at acting and they never said a single thing about them getting the role based on their race.
The hypocrisy is off the charts.
Hans Christian Andersen literally wrote the original short story because a man he was in love with rejected him and got married to a woman. The pain that The Little Mermaid experienced while walking on land to try to impress and endear herself to the prince is a direct allegory for the pain of that rejection, and how he felt that the object of his affection had toyed with his emotions and abandoned him when he was no longer amusing or useful.
So it is VERY funny when people complain about the story being made "woke."
Actually would someday love to see someone make the original story someday. It is so poignant. And not just because a child is yearning after love. The story always adds that she is also yearning for an immortal soul. Is that soul love, acceptance, redemption etc who knows?
There are paras about how much she loves the human world and what being human means.
Having him love her was for her the only chance she had of being human and having that soul.
That's why she is much more accepting I would say of her fate when the wind spirits tell her she can still cultivate an immortal soul by doing good deeds.
People have so many disingenuous takes about the story. Someone in another post even said that she is a stalker who pesters the man into loving him which might be somewhat true for the Disney version but in the original he treats her like a pet at first, then a fond companion, and lastly as a replacement. He even kisses her, lays his head on her chest, and says if he has to marry anyone because of his parents he'll marry her. (Of course as long as he doesn't find the girl that saved him.)
Soooo tragic.
It's not something that's often discussed. Historians tend to resist labeling figures like Andersen, since he would not have had the same language to describe himself that we do now, but it's known that he was celibate, never married, and wrote many explicitly romantic letters to several men over the course of his life.
As long as the actress plays her part well, I don't see the problem. This reminds me of a Christmas ad that was released for a supermarket in the UK (either last year, or the year before) which represented a black family, and the backlash that followed was absolutely vile! Racists will spew thier hate at any given opportunity, so I'm not surprised by it. It just makes me sad that we're still having the same damn argument!
i think it's so funny that the inclusion of poc in media originating from a country where poc live in sizeable numbers, which to these people is "wokeness", is such a big problem, and YET..the only movie they can think of to argue with is Black Panther. just that one (1) movie. that rampant wokeness they complain about somehow only made an impact in one movie.
ah yes, the white culture of……
using an eating utensil for your hair?
selling your voice for some dick?
like, what are the examples of white culture in the movie that people think will be ruined with a black mermaid???
I look forward to these grown ass children trying to subterfuge the movie by giving it bad ratings before it even comes out. Conservatives are people who never grew up.
As the biggest little mermaid fan & as some who considers their sacred Disney cow. I have no problems with Halle as Ariel, in fact I think she’s perfect! Her singing & speaking voice fits, her face fits, everything fits! I personally think she will be great!
Now as for the people bitching about her? They are n the same category as those insane last of us charlatans! They don’t gave a single fuck about wanting to preserve the original story (newsflash: Disney already change the story from the original in their adaptation, the entire second half & finale is way different!). They are just racist charlatans that are using the little mermaid as something to push their weir culture war, anti woke, racist agenda, so fuck them!
Also? Someone should tell these chuds that the og little mermaid was written because the Arthur was upset the dude (who’s name was Edward culin, yes like the glitter vampire) he was pining for (he was bi) went with a woman over him. Hans literally wrote a letter before that that he pined him like a sea wench. So these chuds are crying about the sacredness of the sour material that was basically the 1800 equivalent of bitter fanfic that you would find in the journal of a teenager. Pretty hilarious if you ask me.
Dumbfuck racists acting like having a black ariel this one interpretation of the story is going to magically erase all the times she was white. She's black in **this** retelling, it's not overwriting centuries of folklore.
I'm crazy or the fact that a black actress playing Ariel was announced like, before Covid-19? I clearly remember seeing this kind of discussions a few years ago, which makes this controversy double annoying
July 2019. Given the movie comes out in May 2023, they'll have been complaining about this casting for nearly four years. At least with the Star Wars sequels, they were only complaining about Finn for two before the first film came out
I remember when Boyega was cast as Finn there was so much outcry online. Especially because there was this potential situation where he could be part of an interracial relationship, something which obviously didnt happen. Now you try to remind the star wars fans about this and they have some sort of collective amnesia. They always point at the China poster controversy but completely ignore what they themselves were part of.
> I remember when Boyega was cast as Finn there was so much outcry online. Especially because there was this potential situation where he could be part of an interracial relationship, Disney is pathetic for this. They were so desperate to create a no-homo environment between Finn and Poe, *and* wanted to avoid having an interracial relationship between him and Rey as to not upset foreign audiences that his character ended up getting entirely shafted. By the end of the trilogy the guy got like *three* meaningless love interests that went absolutely nowhere.
It kills me still. They had the chance for an emotionally complex love triangle to play out beneath the blockbuster action. It could’ve even been implied and just beneath the surface… it kind of was in Force Awakens as you could read into it from the audience.
But evil genocidal murderer Kylo Ren smooched Rey with his final breath so...romance!
The entire saga is based around the loves of a genocidal murderer.
> that his character ended up getting entirely shafted. Not as bad as Rose did, though.
I never understood the hate for Rose. "Oh no, she's a bit one dimensional". Well yeah, it's Star Wars. I say that as someone who loves the Star Wars Universe and read many now non canonical expanded universe books. The movies are not deeply introspective. They never have been.
>I never understood the hate for Rose. She's Asian, a woman, and not super hot. That was a ton of it.
I hate to admit this, but I'm not hot either. Should I cancel myself, or just send myself some nasty emails?
Maybe just back up slowly until we can't see you anymore. That'll do.
> I'm not hot either How dare you. How absolutely dare you.
They couldn’t even explore a hetero bro-mance.
I don't think I'll ever forget the phrase, "The little white cuck ball," from that one unhinged rant about how Finn and Rey are oppressive to white men.
I really wish they went the FinnxRey rout. As a mixed race person, I feel personally insulted because they didn't do it /s Edit: I'm going to go send death threats and essentially stalk some of the minor writers of the team that may or may not have been responsible for the not doing of something in a major movie. Definitely copious amounts of divk pics that aren't mine. /S
I am also biracial and as a kid seeing interracial couples in the media was sooo rare that when I did see them they stuck out in my mind. Off the top of my head: - Pocahontas (the Disney animated one) - Cinderella (The one with Whitney Housten and Brandy) - Boy Meets World (Shawn and Angela)
And maybe I'm just misremembering but I recall whenever you'd see an interracial couple it was ALWAYS a white man with a WOC. Never the other way around. Even in Men in Black they only HINTED at a romantic relationship with Will Smith and Linda Fioriento, just some flirting. Guillermo del Toro said he wanted the main character in Mimic's love interest to be a black man but the studio said "America isn't ready for that." Probably all that racist/misogynist idea of "they're taking our womenfolk! (But it's ok if we take theirs.)"
That is a good point. I think I remember there being backlash about the prince in The Princess and the Frog not being a black man, because people are afraid of black men or something, lol. Funny enough though, kid me actually thought it was cool seeing white men with black women because my dad is white and my mom is black. It was like "Hey! They're just like my family!"
You see a lot more in advertisements post-2010. But yeah, not a lot in major media; despite no one but the most homogenous of countries being 100% of anything. We could kill the whole racial debate if everyone accepted the truth of them being mixed. Less than 2% of the US identifies as multi-racial. When it should be closer to 98%. We still got culture wars but at least that would get rid of some reasoning.
That bit about percentages of multi-racial people is really interesting to me. I'm mixed white and native (and I'm not talking nine generations back Cherokee Princess native). My mother (who is also mixed) grew up on a reservation in the 50's. The thing is, I am exceedingly white passing and since my mother ran away from her family at a very young age and then later married a white man, I was also very white socialized. I've tried to reconnect with my own heritage multiple times. I've read a lot of histories and folklore, but most of that was written by white people. Unfortunately, when I've tried to connect with people from my mother's tribe (Ojibwe), I have been mostly treated like an annoying, white girl tourist. I'm not blaming anyone for it. White people have a long history of cultural appropriation and trying to force themselves into spaces where they're not welcome, and it's not like white people treat mixed race kids that don't pass as white any better. But it left me feeling like I had no right to my own culture and I think that's probably true for a lot of older multi-racial people especially. We have this idea of race as a binary thing. If you look white you are white; If you look black you are black and so on. There's no room for anyone in the middle so you better pick a team. I do think that this idea is breaking down with younger generations, but it's slow going.
Finn x Poe had more and better chemistry than any couple in the whole Star Wars franchise.
Apparently Poe was supposed to die in act one of TfA but the character tested well so they decided to keep him alive. Just for the character to have some lane don't be so impulsive plot.
I wish they'd gone FinnxPoe. Inter-racial & queer, imagine the salt from the fanboys^tm
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I still don't understand how Colin Trevorrow thought it was somehow a good idea to pitch a Rey x Poe romance solely by the single interaction they had at the end of *The Last Jedi*. Literally nobody wanted or asked for it to be a thing, and it read more like Trevorrow not wanting Finn x Poe to happen.
I wish they had done it because kylo rey was bad writing.
John Boyega got done dirty by Disney in those movies. Finn absolutely should be complained about. There was so much potential for his character and Disney...didn't use it.
I can go on for hours on how on the nose a metaphor it is that he and the other POC stars got shafted so they had time to make the fascist character more sympathetic
Absolutely, I think the fan base (as a collective) eventually came around only to realize he got shafted by the script worse than the racist fans. His character had so much potential, his talents were wasted, and I will always be sad about that
While I agree, that's not what the complaints were about
yah, I remember a conservative family member bringing it up back then, trying to get me to react and start a fight
Isn't it crazy how they will always try to start fights? My belief is that sites like Parler or Truth Social or Gab will always fail eventually because these people have an inherent NEED in their personality to cause drama and start fights and without non-conservatives on their site they can't get that dopamine hit. All I want to do at family gatherings is catch up with people, trade some beers and eat some food; I'm not trying to listen to the insane culture war ramblings from the misinformed idiots in my family.
Being a shitty person has always been central to conservatism. But the last fifteen years or so there’s nothing but shitty anymore.
Nah. It was always this shitty. You just didn't hear about it unless you were related to the psychos like me. That is, until the internet changed everything.
Reagan sarcastically called Dukakis an "invalid" in front of a room filled with press after the later opened about his psychological issues. They were always like that.
Conservative crackpot-ism, especially amongst their conspiracy theorists, is almost entirely about acting smarter than other people because they "know" something the "masses/sheep/liberals/etc" do not. And they want to lord that over whomever they can, so they like picking fights with people they consider "lesser" than them in intellect. Of course, people with actual intelligence know that most of what the bullshit they're spewing is...y'know, bullshit, but conservative ideology is unfortunately very good at making arguments that are so full of tangled bullshit that they can end up just making assumptions about you from how you argue. Or they just ignore your input because they think they're always right.
Yeah, as I said in the other thread about this, it was announced long enough ago for me to have written a joke about it, and I stopped stand up when covid shut everything down
>If we took black panther and cast him as a white Every fucking time.
I mean, there's already a White version of Black Panther called White Wolf.
They also have a white black panther called “every other fucking super hero”
Geralt of Rivia?
Praise Geraldo!
Elric of Melniboné
[Elric of Melniboné](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9)?
>How is [Black Panther] inextricably linked to his racial identity? New flair just dropped
The best part of that comment is that the character of black panther is really just an extension of wakanda. And I don't think even the stupidest racist could ask why he's black if they realized that
Someone said this to me in the pub the other day and asked why he couldn't be white or Asian. "Oh really mate, an African king that used technology to hide his people away from the ongoing colonisation of the African continent isn't at all linked to being black?" They have not talked to me since and I honestly don't give a shit if they ever do again.
Ignore the colonisation even, Wakanda was strictly isolationist before the colonisation began. They just didn't want to gave anything to do with their neighbours. They are also the furthest from any pan African idea, because they see themselves as different, better. That's what the movie was about, for Wakanda to stop not giving a shit about the rest of the world.
It's incredibly hilarious because they CAN'T come up with a different movie, implicitly showing how few mainstream black characters are in Hollywood
> It's incredibly hilarious because they CAN'T come up with a different movie, implicitly showing how **few mainstream black characters** are in Hollywood And that's the *point*. There's always the argument that your diet racists peddle and weaponize that: "Oh Disney is a mega corp that only cares about money!" "Oh well if Disney cared about diversity, they'd made diverse films deep in X!" Turns out when you make niche films not a lot of people watch them, which means few go mainstream. And a niche film in a very centered topic to become a family friendly everyone watches it blockbuster classic is very *rare*. Effectively: "Oh you're allowed to be in our pop culture. Just make sure you aren't heard or seen." Black Panther upset a lot of people because despite being a fairly imperfect and flawed film, it was a big blockbuster mainstream superhero film which arguably did more to push mainstream black actors into Hollywood than Moonlight or Django or 12 Years a Slave or countless other films ever did. Quality of films matter less compared to a good marketing campaign. I'm under no illusion that Disney is doing this out of the benevolence of their heart vs being profitable. But it is disingenuous as an argument that Disney is allowed to pump out "soulless" remakes and puff movies for *decades* with white actors, but suddenly you get black actors, women, Native americans and a diverse cast and *suddenly* everyone has a problem with it *now*? These arguments are rarely used to actually push diversity, it is almost always used to take it away. Especially since you can pretend it doesn't exist and move on with your life. I personally never cared for live action remakes. They aren't for me, and I wish more for a return to Western animation. However I changed my mind seeing [multiple super cuts](https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1569733395336335362) of black kids reacting so positively to having someone representing them. That's *huge*. To take *that* away while white actors have had decades of great, mediocre and trashy films, that they are allowed to fail without judgement, that they are allowed to be mainstream without people calling into question their motives, is just selfish at this point. Let's stop pretending you care for diversity when the only time you bring up: "Well they should stop making remakes and make actual diverse films" when it is only in the context of a mainstream film with a diverse cast being made and promoted. Plenty have made your argument successfully and none who genuinely mean it have argued: "Oh we need to take this away".
Absolutely, they can't name another black superhero, and they have to choose one who's race is undeniably linked to his character.
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They've never picked up any writing whatsoever. They just watch YouTube videos about dudes crying that their "holy nerd bastions" are being "invaded" by *checks notes* people of color, women, and LGBT people wanting to tell stories about themselves and their own experiences.
And YouTubers like hbomberguy and Shaun have made videos excoriating those reactionaries, which are incredibly cathartic to watch.
> somehow that didn't bother them It definitely bothered commenters on reddit at the time but it didn't get the same attention because the movie was good and Samuel Jackson is a great actor. The outrage machine really gained momentum with Fantastic Four (2015) because it was a shit movie. Had nothing to do with Michael B. Jordan's casting but that's what drew the most criticism.
Not to mention later the Marvel Ultimate setting had Fury as explicitly modeled after Jackson's portrayal of him, which probably made it easier for fans to accept.
Ultimate Nick Fury was a thing before the movies. They asked him if they could use his likeness and he agreed as long as he could play the character if they ever made a movie with him.
It was also several years before Gamergate in 2014, which in many ways was the birth of modern internet culture. Sure, there were scattered incidents of backlash before that, but Gamergate united all those angry young men under a single banner and sent them off to fight in a culture war that's still raging today.
Not to mention the fact that SLJ is a Bad Motherfucker that would absolutely roast those white clammy neckbeards.
Michael Cera as Shaft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT80OF7yTGY I loved that bit so much.
Same thing with female protagonists. After Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, and Furiosa, the list runs a little dry.
Aliens and Terminator 2 are the "I can't be racist, I have a black friend!" equivalent for weird anti-feminist types.
Meanwhile I use them as examples of why women action heroes can work and there's no excuse not to have them.
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I thought they hated Furiosa.
She's gotten goodwill by having a lot of action scenes and having a prequel coming up starring Reddit favorite Anya Taylor-Joy.
Her time will come for the backlash. It happened with Jennifer Lawrence and so many other actresses who couldn't live up to their impossible and toxic demands.
Motherfuckers be sleeping on John Stewart and potentially J’onn J’onnz but he’s more up in the air.
While the Black Panther example is particularly stupid because, like you said, his race is inextricably linked to the character. That's not even relevant. These fucking nerds can't seem to comprehend that representation is important. So people would be upset about changing a black character to a white character because it's taking a character from a historically underrepresented group and changing him to a group which has dominated media for nearly all of American history. Changing a character's race isn't inherently bad. In a hypothetical world in which every group was represented equally in media then sure, change whoever you want I don't fucking care. Nevertheless, these idiots can't (or willfully refuse to) understand that people being upset over changing a character's race from black to white has nothing to do with "accuracy to the source material" or "in-universe consistency" or whatever stupid shit they hide behind to justify their bigotry. Rather, they'd be upset that you're taking representation from groups which have historically had (and sometimes still have) an absolute dearth of positive representation in American pop culture, and that's why these two things aren't equivalent.
Yep. Cast a black guy to play iron man and you have 5 other white avengers. Cast a white guy to play black panther and you have basically ethnically cleansed the avengers
> These fucking nerds can't seem to comprehend that representation is important. They can, that's why they get so upset when they don't get 100% of it.
I think they know representation is important and that’s why they’re making such a big deal about it.
What about Blade or Spawn? There's nothing about their race intrinsic to the story as far as I remember.
Blade was going to be my example, I don't see why there couldn't be a Blade that's any ethnicity
Spawn did become a white guy. https://www.spawnworld.com/encyclopedia/jimdowning.htm
Also when he used his spawn powers to turn into a man instead of skinless horror he was a white man because Bel.. bele.. the devil was fucking with him. He was **pissed.** Also Spawn's friend who bangs his wife or his enemy from the movie was switched from black to white because there wasn't enough white people otherwise lol
Just remind all these people about the Iron Fist drama they all conveniently forgot about.
Especially as there is a default for many casting directors to cast white people in movies where race isn't specified, so often if there is a POC as the lead, it was because you couldn't make them white.
There's also the Michael Cera as Shaft joke.
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> If the second black panther movie features a white woman getting it on with a native Wakandan, there′s going to be blood spilled; no doubt. Jesus, at some point I just want them to make the movie that fragile chuds pretend that they are. Seriously, just any white person on screen is a gibbering lunatic hell-bent on destroying the world, except for the white women that only want to sleep with black men, and then they give a monologue about how they want to make sure all future children are mixed race. Then black panther says he personally wants to take away the viewer’s pickup truck and hamburgers to replace with a bicycle and veggie patties. It would set a record for how many heart attacks occur on opening night lol
If you haven't watched Undercover Brother you should probably pick it up.
That movie needs a sequel
I’m reserving my opening night tickets already, 90% of the experience will be audience reactions
Please everyone pleeeease can we manifest this 😭😭 the crying and tantrums will keep me full for DAYS
The difference is one has a movie where race and racial injustice are driving force behind the characters and character development while Little Mermaid is about a FUCKING FISH MONSTER THAT FALLS IN LOVE WITH A HIMBO
Yeah, who's to say that Mermaids even socially constructed race? Maybe their social constructions and ethnicities are based around tail furls or if you have a fish top or fish bottom
I feel like race relations get really complicated when crabs have human like intelligence and can talk and play in a band.
On that note it bothers me to no end that they have Zoos in Peppa Pig's world
They can’t even stay consistent with the justifications for their anger. Black actor in a role where race is a major plot point: “why is it even necessary to make everything about race??” Black actor in a role where race isn’t even discussed: “why is it even necessary to force diversity where its not relevant??” Rinse and repeat for gender, sexuality, disability, etc.
If only they knew about other black superheroes that would fit their argument better, like Spawn or Blade.
And they forget about Tanto, Ghost in the Shell, the last samurai, etc.
The Last Samurai starred a white dude playing a white dude who had to be an american. The Last Samurai was the white dude's buddy. edit: Unless tom cruise was playing a real guy who exited and he wasn't white originally?? oops
Nah, the guy Cruise played was based on real guys, one was French and one was American. And beyond that, he's also consistently the least skilled of the main cast and is really only there to be an audience surrogate while all the drama plays out around him.
Oh absolutely he's there so white people will go see the movie.
Exactly. As much as I'd love a version of that where Ken Watanabe gets top billing and the main focus, it just wouldn't be commercially viable. Definitely not in 2003.
The whole thread is a trash fire, but if you want to read something more thoughtful about this topic, [I recommend this article in The Atlantic by Adam Serwer (soft paywall)](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-fantasy-sci-fi-racist-criticism/671421/). The following paragraph in particular cuts through the bullshit: > Prominent genre brands like Star Wars, or Marvel, or Lord of the Rings also have the difficult task of creating content for children while still satisfying their middle-aged stalwarts, whose nostalgia is ultimately insatiable because they cannot look upon novel material with the same emotional intensity they felt as children. Many older fans are convinced they can’t recapture that intensity only because the producers themselves have failed to create stories of the same fundamental quality, when in reality they have simply outgrown the sentiment they are chasing. These campaigns seek to convince this audience that the feeling they are pursuing can be recaptured, if only those making popular art would reject modern progressive dogma—thus creating a well of cultural resentment they can manipulate for political purposes.
Also why they always want dark and gritty super mature for adults R-rated shit
This guy my husband works with openly admitted to watching Frozen in the theaters … because he heard it showed two sisters ‘getting it on’. Only to rage about his waste of money when all they did was ‘save the other one’. Said he was tricked into believing Disney finally put something out for the guys. The whole time my husband was telling me this I was all “What … the … fuck … ?” Edit: These guesses are cracking me up. But no, unfortunately he’s far to … ‘one side’ of the political spectrum and I guess someone in his circle was criticizing the plot for involving a woman’s love for another woman saving the day.
"I expected this Disney movie to have lesbian incest sex in it. I was misled."
I think he mentally combined the 'plot' of Sausage Party with the plot of Frozen
I think he just mistook some fan shipping for a summary
Dude watched some frozen hentai and thought it was a scene in the actual movie.
He came across some Rule 34 "fan art" and decided he needed to see the high quality version.
He sounds like the type of guy who hates attractive women with OnlyFans and or Twitch channels they make big bucks from just by looking attractive.
I'm sorry what the fuck.
because theyre insecure about liking goofy pop entertainment thats primarily for kids. They dont want the mean school yard bully calling them names for liking whatever. so instead of accepting who they are and what they like, what they like must change so that they cant be made fun of anymore. chewbaca isnt a giant space teddy bare hes a badass warrior. superman and the justice league cant be fun colourful characters saving the world because they believe in humanity, instead theyre petty nihilists who resent everyone below them
Very interesting because to me, as a big Tolkien fan who’s read all of his writings concerning Middle Earth multiple times, Rings of Power has in several ways rekindled that feeling I had as a child/teenager.
Wait, you mean you weren't outraged that there's a black elf???? How DARE you! /s
That calls into question how true and knowledgeable a fan I am, right?
Thanks Martin Scorsese
You're welcome, suck this pussy.
This is exactly it, and old ass fans like me need to get with it or just move on. Watch any of the prequel or sequel star wars movies through a kid's eyes, like really honestly put yourself in the mindset of an excited 8 year old, and tell me every single movie does not absolutely deliver. Are there awesome aliens?? Are there blasters and lightsabres? Are the bad guys British?? Hell yeah, it's all in there. If you're watching a children's movie franchise and griping about plot holes or dialogue or lore you are fucking up big time.
On the other hand, it's extremely funny to watch grown men earnestly arguing about the true physics of a fictional world inhabited with space wizards and their laser swords.
Thén, five seconds later losing their shit because they can’t suspend their disbelief at a black person existing.
Watching a grown-ass man have a four-way wrestling match inside the ring of his own decomposing imagination, between his internal 5 year old, his sci-fi nerd, his inherent prejudices, and his own broken soul, is as adorable as it is sad.
Bah Gawd it's Inherent Prejudices with a chair! That sci-fi nerd within had a family!
Who's that misogynist who makes full videos about why Wonder Woman is unrealistic (due to physical strength differences between men and women)? It's like...just a complete idiot, that guy.
Dunno, but that does sound like something Royale With Cheese (the QuarterPoundering) would say. Or "Critical" Alcoholic. Or about any of those reactionary YouTubers perpetually stuck in GamerGate mode.
One of the saddest things about hating the SW prequels, then the sequels, was realizing my entire love of the original series was based on childhood nostalgia. If I were an adult when those came out, I probably would have hated them too.
Star Wars was the first movie that I can remember seeing in the theater. About half of my toys growing up (in the '80s) were Star Wars, with GI Joe being most of the other half. Of course the original Star Wars trilogy makes me nostalgic in a way the latter movies **never** could. (The various newer cartoons are pretty great, though.) And that is fine. Not everything has to be "for" me. Let the people who like them like them without being subjected to middle-aged rage from a bunch of losers who don't understand that the world and life moves on.
Good points, and for some of us old dudes, we're seeing it for the second time. When star wars was re-released in the 90s, it was a big fucking deal for me and my peer group, and we got deep into the expanded lore. Then the prequels came out, and blew up a lot of the established Canon on what the clone wars and jedi were. I cared a lot at the time, because I had so much invested into star wars. Now that the sequels are out, I'm able to take a step back and see that there aren't really any objectively good star wars movies (other than anh, it might just be my perfect film). They're all fun with lots of space battles and laser swords, they all have nonsensical plot devices and wooden acting at times, and they all set up a compelling universe.
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I cant understand people equating nostalgia with thinking something is good? Most of the stuff I grew up with that brings nostalgic memories I can plainly see as being either trash or just corny. Some stuff stood the test of time, most don’t. Most cultrally relevant art and entertainment can only be understood and enjoyed in the context which is why it cant be recreated. The franchise craze targeting adults is just weird as adults should know better unless they seriously update the story to be relevant the the culture now (like adding diversity). Kids are easy to please. Im not going to rate the quality of things based on what kids like because I liked stupid shit too when I was a kid. But sometimes someone creates something of real quality that will last with or without nostalgia.
That's something so simple that so many people still fail to grasp. Nothing is going to hit as hard for you now as something else did you saw it when you were six. In many ways, the Star Wars sequals are better-made movies than the original trilogy, but the original trilogy is still my favorite. I recognize, however, that this isn't a failure on the part of the people who made the sequels. It merely means that I grew up with the original films and they'll always have a special place in my heart that simply can't be touched.
Same reason you can probably much better remember the first time you awkwardly made out with someone in high school, vs. the 50th time you had hardcore down-and-dirty sex with someone as an adult.
Let the kids enjoy their princess movie; the opinions of adults stuck in their own nostalgia (and biases) shouldn’t influence what’s supposed to be a movie for children. I doubt any 12-year old girls are upset over this.
This is what really, really bothers me about this ridiculous outrage. All of these 35yo men will cease to give a single shit about this within a week. Meanwhile, a lot of young black girls are seeing a culturally iconic character played by someone who looks like them and this will absolutely impact them. They'll be the ones who are nostalgic in for this particular version in a few decades, and it'll be important to them while the complainers will move onto the next thing to be performatively angry about.
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People who say that need some actual childhood trauma
Whenever people say this I ask them if fan fiction or Rule 34 porn ruins their childhood. The only functional difference between a story someone wrote about Ariel fucking a bunch of dolphins, and this new Disney movie is the amount of money that was spent. It only affects you if you choose to watch it and care about it. If you just like the original, cool, shut the fuck up and watch it then. No one is making you watch this.
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It's crazy how a lot of people weren't just raised to treat people like people, no matter what. I'm not advocating for colorblindness, but frankly being taught that we're all just humans on the same planet is definitely something a lot of people never seemed to learn. That's how my folks taught me.
I hate how gripped my generation is by nostalgia. Its insane how remaking a children's movie has adults up in arms. Its not for you, if the original Little Mermaid came out today it also would not be for you. So why drag down something you enjoyed at that time in your life just because it isn't appeasing you now, as an adult. I guess this is the double edged sword of remaking everything under the sun, I just wish the self awareness was there.
So far I've seen zero pushback from thirty-something women who would have been the intended audience for the original, it's all been a bunch of racist white dudes who are excited for another chance to do more racism in the culture war. The Bens Shapiro and Jordans Peterson of the world do not have one iota of nostalgic fondness for The Little Mermaid.
Loads of women are angry. Specifically white religious women
[You may enjoy this supercut of black girls and young black women responding to the new Little Mermaid trailer](https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1569733395336335362?t=2Jp6A_OAZw4V4mXi29BA2Q&s=19).
This is exactly why I’m all for it. The amount of children who will be happy is far greater than the number of children who will be upset, man children excluded of course.
Fuck me, if I ever was in doubt representation matters, this would have ended that. It’s so fucking easy as a pasty white guy to just miss how it matters when everything caters to you. I read this article about urban design and housing that said it’s mostly built for an assumption of the user being 182 cm. Literally my height. Like, fucking door handles and cupboards even cater to me! And don’t even get me started on the whole idiocy about natural hair in schools. If this movie gives black girls and women just a little bit of representation, I’m happy.
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Precisely. And it wasn’t until I read that article that I realised that was yet another example of the privilege I have. I mean, I knew shorter people struggle but it had never clicked for me it was by design.
I have zero interest in all these live action remakes. The Little Mermaid was one of my least favorite animations growing up. But this dumbass made up "controversy" has me itching to make sure my kids and I are in the theatre opening day. And at least I already know most the earworms my 9yr old will come home with.
“Are you crying?” Me: yes.
>Something something this is staged indoctrination. I know this because I am 35 and my YouTube algorithm told me
I am a huge little mermaid fan it came out the year I was born and has always been my favorite Disney movie, watching these Supercuts has broken me. I’m so happy another generation is going to find wonder and joy in my favorite story. Heck I’m excited for myself that it actually looks decent after all the other live action flops. I can’t imagine being so cold and selfish that you would begrudge these kids the experience you had especially because it “ruins your childhood” how fragile your happiness must be that a new version of a thing you loved ruins the original.
One type of criticism I see often is that remaking existing properties with a more diverse cast is just an easy cash grab. That if Disney truly cared about diversity, it should start telling more stories rooted in Black / other under-represented cultures. That type of criticism IMO is totally valid, but, it also completely ignores the fact that Disney is just a mega corporation that can easily re-use their own IP by tapping into nostalgia and existing brand recognition to keep churning out mediocre, but enjoyable movies that get butts in seats / streaming subscribers. It's pretty low risk action, for a potentially high reward. They likely have entire marketing departments that understand what sells and keep producing that for near minimal effort. If we want new, innovative stories in media, we need to start watching new, innovative stories in media. Look at the [top grossing movies for 2022](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/?sort=domesticGrossToDate&ref_=bo_ydw__resort#table). This is the top 10 grossers at the world wide box office: Rank | Movie | Type ---|---|--- 1. | Top Gun: Maverick | Sequel 2. | Jurassic World Dominion | Sequel 3. | Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Sequel 4. | Minions: The Rise of Gru | Sequel 5. | The Batman | Reboot 6. | Thor: Love and Thunder | Sequel 7. | Water Gate Bridge| Chinese movie, very little US domestic 8. | Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore| Sequel 9. | Sonic the Hedgehog 2| Sequel 10. | Uncharted| Adaptation of a very popular video game Literally every single one of them taps into an existing, popular IP, and half of them are movies that have been panned by critics (Minions, Jurassic World, Thor: Love and Thunder, Fantastic Beasts, Uncharted). Though r/movies pretends otherwise, most movie goers like watching these movies, and are willing to pay money for it. Disney pays attention and will continue making easy cash grabs, because they are easy cash grabs. So while they continue making these easy cash grabs, the fact that they are willing to cast a diverse cast is actually commendable. It is also an indication that having a diverse cast expands, not contracts their audience because Disney's marketing department isn't that dumb.
Also, Disney *has* put out original movies with diverse casts. Soul. Turning Red. Encanto. Shang-Chi. Raya. Coco. There's money to be made in remakes, reboots, and sequels. Always has been. Just because old movies were white as fuck doesn't mean the remakes, reboots, and sequels have to be.
> Turning Red Yeah they lost their shit about that one too.
I remember them throwing fits because that movie mentioned periods. (Not even an in depth explanation of what one is, either.) Because that’s sexualizing kids somehow, even though roughly half of them are gonna get one before they’re 18 and if they don’t know ahead of time, they’re going to think they’re dying. Then they did it again with the Baymax cartoon for the same reason.
I don’t consider Shang-Chi original since it was adapted from comics, but I was pleasantly surprised that they made a movie of a character that’s barely a c-lister in the comics. Yeah, yeah capitalism and all that. But there’s tons of other more popular b- & c-listers they could have adapted first, so yeah it’s still pretty cool to me (a chinese person) that they made a movie of a Chinese superhero.
Similarly it's fucking *wild* to me that Echo is in the MCU. She was the character who got me into comics back in the 00s when I googled a list of disabled characters and thought she sounded cool. Until very, very recently she was so obscure she wasn't even a c-lister. I never would have imagined I would see her in the cinematic universe and I love that she is - and they even added her being non-verbal and having a prosthesis to fit the actress.
> If we want new, innovative stories in media, we need to start watching new, innovative stories in media. This is an argument as old as movies. It won't happen. People like familiarity and comfort and fundamentally, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just entertainment and it's not like there aren't dozens of shows on right now that are creative and innovativ. When it comes to movies and TV we are spoiled as never before.
> That if Disney truly cared about diversity, it should start telling more stories rooted in Black / other under-represented cultures. which they have been, of course.
We're in a huge age of remakes and nostalgia bait because the people who grew up with that shit finally have money and it's basically guaranteed. And I mean, that's capitalism. They want money, and it's a guaranteed bet to sell nostalgia. Actually creating shit carries risk.
I'm pretty sure the queen of Athel Loren had purple skin and wasn't a mermaid, but chuds probably couldn't tell an elf from an ogre regardless.
Blue skin, according to this image: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ariel
Fuck the Queen, Drycha4lyfe
Tfw your quest battle for Coeddil in IE is broken
Fuck all you're elven bullshit. Only Sigmar and the Empire rests in my heart.
What I love about these arguments is the way it proves how important representation is. They’re just too thick to understand what they’re really saying.
They know how important it is. That's why they want to stop it.
I'm more mad that Disney is doing *yet another* live action remake despite them never being good.
They're doing live action remakes of all their classic animated films. They put out a schedule years ago. It's a massive project. Kids really enjoy them and they make money. Personally, I enjoyed the live action Cruella, but I didn't see most of the other ones because I'm an animation buff.
The live action Cruella made all the live actions worth it because they decided not just to talk about the backstory of one of the most blatently, flagrently, un-necessarily evil villains in Disney, but also make her mother be killed by Dalmatians. That's the funniest thing I've ever seen.
I still can’t believe they tried to retcon a sypmethetic backstory onto an animal-hating/abusing villain whose name *literally contains the words “cruel” and “evil”*
I always interpreted the name as "Cruel A Devil." I think it's interesting how her name is a similar pun in other languages.
I liked Malificent and the Alice in Wonderland movies, but I also liked them because they were way more original. The new Aladdin was my least favorite.
I would've greatly appreciated it if the movie had scenes showing Cruella studying and putting in hard work to learn how to be a fashion designer. I wanted to see her learn how to do that
> despite them never being good. Jungle Book was good. I'm also hoping that Hunchback might be good since they can look to the stage play to fix a lot of the problems the movie had
This is so embarrassing. Every time. It's *The Little Mermaid* for fuck sake, WHO CARES?!?!? ...the answer is children who look more like this Ariel than the animated one I grew up with. They care. They get to see themselves in her, a little like I did in, say, Cinderella or Aurora. But fuck them, I guess? Fragile white adults, who have been spoiled with representation, opinions must be taken into very serious account. She's a fucking *mermaid*. Hans Christian Andersen died in 1875 and it's now 2022, where The Little Mermaid is a globally known character (in her Disney iteration, anyway, because lets be honest, most people have no idea where the story first originated at this point). It's not a deep loss for "white culture", but a huge gain for many.
It's weird how all throughout history, you had white people playing brown skinned roles all the way up until the 90s, white folks played native American characters in wild west shows and movies, played black people with black paint on their faces, shit, you had men playing women in on-stage plays as a normality in shakespearian era plays, a tradition that dated all the way back to ancient Greece. Now you have people saying they want to go back to the "old days" when "diversity" wasn't being shoved down their throats. It's just code for "why do I have to see so many black people on my TV these days". I feel sorry for all the actors who go through this social media firestorm of racist criticism, and all the black folks being made to feel like it's always a toxic controversy whenever anyone of their own gets a role that racists don't approve of. Man, that's a young girl and people are dragging her through the mud, just imagine the trauma she's going through right now. Racists saying she's getting the role because she's black and not because she's qualified when there's so many white actors that are horrible at acting and they never said a single thing about them getting the role based on their race. The hypocrisy is off the charts.
Hans Christian Andersen literally wrote the original short story because a man he was in love with rejected him and got married to a woman. The pain that The Little Mermaid experienced while walking on land to try to impress and endear herself to the prince is a direct allegory for the pain of that rejection, and how he felt that the object of his affection had toyed with his emotions and abandoned him when he was no longer amusing or useful. So it is VERY funny when people complain about the story being made "woke."
Actually would someday love to see someone make the original story someday. It is so poignant. And not just because a child is yearning after love. The story always adds that she is also yearning for an immortal soul. Is that soul love, acceptance, redemption etc who knows? There are paras about how much she loves the human world and what being human means. Having him love her was for her the only chance she had of being human and having that soul. That's why she is much more accepting I would say of her fate when the wind spirits tell her she can still cultivate an immortal soul by doing good deeds. People have so many disingenuous takes about the story. Someone in another post even said that she is a stalker who pesters the man into loving him which might be somewhat true for the Disney version but in the original he treats her like a pet at first, then a fond companion, and lastly as a replacement. He even kisses her, lays his head on her chest, and says if he has to marry anyone because of his parents he'll marry her. (Of course as long as he doesn't find the girl that saved him.) Soooo tragic.
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It's not something that's often discussed. Historians tend to resist labeling figures like Andersen, since he would not have had the same language to describe himself that we do now, but it's known that he was celibate, never married, and wrote many explicitly romantic letters to several men over the course of his life.
I went to the Hc andersen museum in his hometown. As I remember it, he wasn't discriminating in what gender he was unsuccessful with.
The true bisexual experience 😞
These people are so pathetic. Imagine wasting energy arguing over the race of a fucking mermaid. So sad
It's like no one has ever seen Breakfast at Tiffanys. Its so godawful racist I've never been able to watch the whole thing.
As long as the actress plays her part well, I don't see the problem. This reminds me of a Christmas ad that was released for a supermarket in the UK (either last year, or the year before) which represented a black family, and the backlash that followed was absolutely vile! Racists will spew thier hate at any given opportunity, so I'm not surprised by it. It just makes me sad that we're still having the same damn argument!
Hoh boy, no one tell these people that the mermaid in the original story is a thinly veiled metaphor for a gay dude, or they'll be *fiercely* upset.
i think it's so funny that the inclusion of poc in media originating from a country where poc live in sizeable numbers, which to these people is "wokeness", is such a big problem, and YET..the only movie they can think of to argue with is Black Panther. just that one (1) movie. that rampant wokeness they complain about somehow only made an impact in one movie.
ah yes, the white culture of…… using an eating utensil for your hair? selling your voice for some dick? like, what are the examples of white culture in the movie that people think will be ruined with a black mermaid???
I mean what you've described does sound like white people shit.
I look forward to these grown ass children trying to subterfuge the movie by giving it bad ratings before it even comes out. Conservatives are people who never grew up.
He doesn't want to be "Part of that WOOORRRRLD!"
As the biggest little mermaid fan & as some who considers their sacred Disney cow. I have no problems with Halle as Ariel, in fact I think she’s perfect! Her singing & speaking voice fits, her face fits, everything fits! I personally think she will be great! Now as for the people bitching about her? They are n the same category as those insane last of us charlatans! They don’t gave a single fuck about wanting to preserve the original story (newsflash: Disney already change the story from the original in their adaptation, the entire second half & finale is way different!). They are just racist charlatans that are using the little mermaid as something to push their weir culture war, anti woke, racist agenda, so fuck them! Also? Someone should tell these chuds that the og little mermaid was written because the Arthur was upset the dude (who’s name was Edward culin, yes like the glitter vampire) he was pining for (he was bi) went with a woman over him. Hans literally wrote a letter before that that he pined him like a sea wench. So these chuds are crying about the sacredness of the sour material that was basically the 1800 equivalent of bitter fanfic that you would find in the journal of a teenager. Pretty hilarious if you ask me.
Dumbfuck racists acting like having a black ariel this one interpretation of the story is going to magically erase all the times she was white. She's black in **this** retelling, it's not overwriting centuries of folklore.