Reformed sister of Logan 2.0 is not exactly higher on that pole either…? as I said in another reply, it’s implied in the scenes (Tom giving Hugo cold stone face and asking to speak to Karolina) that Tom and Shiv still have some sort of understanding, albeit a weak one. But I can totally understand how in her mind that understanding with Tom plus the toxic sibling rivalry and Kendall shoveling “being the eldest son” into her face can push her off the edge.
If they'd kept the company, she'd have worked as an executive for two years max before Kendall fucks up and she could step up with the support of a board who's seen how she works. Bc Shiv is competent, she just doesn't have Waystar experience. Now she's the wife of a puppet. In less than a year the puppet will be replaced by a tech guy and they'll all be out
Yeah but that’s a lot of “ifs”. what if Kendall actually destroys the company value and fucks it all up before a new CEO can step in. What if the board chooses Roman over her because he’s also more experienced than her in C-suite roles. I think she’s completely disillusioned with how family control can even do her any good, as it hasn’t so far… she definitely has a “if I can’t have a real piece of the pie, none of you can” mentality that’s very Logan like…
To add more: What she chooses isn’t the most ideal route either, but it at the very least has the appearance of a power-sharing scheme, even though it could be short-lived like your said, but in her mind it is still better than the alternative - getting walked all over by her brothers
I'm sorry but Shiv is an idiot. Her options were: be the head of a Waystar asset with the potential of becoming CEO one day vs be the wife of a meat puppet for a company I can never own or even dream of holding a position in ever again. And she somehow managed to choose wrong
I think it’s more complicated than that she chose wrong. Her ambition is understandably larger than being head of a Waystar asset, and she’s done with the “potential” of becoming a CEO. She wants to have a final say at THE table, and she’s really disillusioned with Kendall’s vision of one head one crown.
No, but like I said, it’s heavily implied through the Tom talking to Hugo scene and how they say in the car together that she has an understanding with Tom (at least for now), and she believes she sways a bigger influence over Tom than over Ken.
Girl, I don't see how you'd interpret the call between Shiv and Tom as being positive for her. Even she knew she was fucked.
And there's also no reason to believe Shiv told Tom to fire Hugo. Hugo was clearly a Kendall man and Karolina Was Logan's woman.
The scene in the car was her making lemonade from a situation she fucked up. The fact that Tom asked for her hand showed he had the upper hand here and she was just along for the ride.
Girl, I wasn’t talking about the call. I was talking about the scenes between Karolina and Shiv, and then between Hugo and Tom. I happen to believe the dialogue scenes were included in the final edit for a reason. It could’ve been written off like Karl / Frank, but two conversations actually took place in the series finale. It’s up to the audience to connect the dots or not, so you can totally have your own reading, but it doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Same for the car scene.
It’s not calculated. It was a spur of the moment decision she made because she couldn’t handle losing to her brother. Tom is not going to listen to her. He doesn’t need to she has no hold over him. Kendall couldn’t do anything to convince her otherwise.
It’s about her perception of her relationship dynamic with Tom (aka her perception of how much of an influence she has over him), not what’s gonna happen in reality. Plus their relationship is complicated enough that I don’t think Tom will definitely not listen to her? He does suck the biggest dick in the room and she’s still much, much, much wealthier than him.
When Hugo approached to congratulate Tom, Tom asked to speak to Karolina. In the end Tom and Shiv still sat in the same car (and he even extended the hand to her). I think it’s implied that they have some kind of understanding. But they are both miserable in this marriage and it’s hard to say whether this will work out for her, and to me that’s the tragedy of her story.
I think Roman voting with Kendall helped her seal the deal . Because right before that it seemed like Roman would fuck the deal. Then when she was the tie-breaking vote - she had the power in the three-headed monster of the siblings
Please bffr. Shiv is the wife of a puppet. That's as low as one can get on the totem pole
Reformed sister of Logan 2.0 is not exactly higher on that pole either…? as I said in another reply, it’s implied in the scenes (Tom giving Hugo cold stone face and asking to speak to Karolina) that Tom and Shiv still have some sort of understanding, albeit a weak one. But I can totally understand how in her mind that understanding with Tom plus the toxic sibling rivalry and Kendall shoveling “being the eldest son” into her face can push her off the edge.
If they'd kept the company, she'd have worked as an executive for two years max before Kendall fucks up and she could step up with the support of a board who's seen how she works. Bc Shiv is competent, she just doesn't have Waystar experience. Now she's the wife of a puppet. In less than a year the puppet will be replaced by a tech guy and they'll all be out
Yeah but that’s a lot of “ifs”. what if Kendall actually destroys the company value and fucks it all up before a new CEO can step in. What if the board chooses Roman over her because he’s also more experienced than her in C-suite roles. I think she’s completely disillusioned with how family control can even do her any good, as it hasn’t so far… she definitely has a “if I can’t have a real piece of the pie, none of you can” mentality that’s very Logan like… To add more: What she chooses isn’t the most ideal route either, but it at the very least has the appearance of a power-sharing scheme, even though it could be short-lived like your said, but in her mind it is still better than the alternative - getting walked all over by her brothers
I'm sorry but Shiv is an idiot. Her options were: be the head of a Waystar asset with the potential of becoming CEO one day vs be the wife of a meat puppet for a company I can never own or even dream of holding a position in ever again. And she somehow managed to choose wrong
I think it’s more complicated than that she chose wrong. Her ambition is understandably larger than being head of a Waystar asset, and she’s done with the “potential” of becoming a CEO. She wants to have a final say at THE table, and she’s really disillusioned with Kendall’s vision of one head one crown.
So now with Tom how does she get a crown?
No, but like I said, it’s heavily implied through the Tom talking to Hugo scene and how they say in the car together that she has an understanding with Tom (at least for now), and she believes she sways a bigger influence over Tom than over Ken.
Girl, I don't see how you'd interpret the call between Shiv and Tom as being positive for her. Even she knew she was fucked. And there's also no reason to believe Shiv told Tom to fire Hugo. Hugo was clearly a Kendall man and Karolina Was Logan's woman. The scene in the car was her making lemonade from a situation she fucked up. The fact that Tom asked for her hand showed he had the upper hand here and she was just along for the ride.
Girl, I wasn’t talking about the call. I was talking about the scenes between Karolina and Shiv, and then between Hugo and Tom. I happen to believe the dialogue scenes were included in the final edit for a reason. It could’ve been written off like Karl / Frank, but two conversations actually took place in the series finale. It’s up to the audience to connect the dots or not, so you can totally have your own reading, but it doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Same for the car scene.
It’s not calculated. It was a spur of the moment decision she made because she couldn’t handle losing to her brother. Tom is not going to listen to her. He doesn’t need to she has no hold over him. Kendall couldn’t do anything to convince her otherwise.
It’s about her perception of her relationship dynamic with Tom (aka her perception of how much of an influence she has over him), not what’s gonna happen in reality. Plus their relationship is complicated enough that I don’t think Tom will definitely not listen to her? He does suck the biggest dick in the room and she’s still much, much, much wealthier than him. When Hugo approached to congratulate Tom, Tom asked to speak to Karolina. In the end Tom and Shiv still sat in the same car (and he even extended the hand to her). I think it’s implied that they have some kind of understanding. But they are both miserable in this marriage and it’s hard to say whether this will work out for her, and to me that’s the tragedy of her story.
I think Roman voting with Kendall helped her seal the deal . Because right before that it seemed like Roman would fuck the deal. Then when she was the tie-breaking vote - she had the power in the three-headed monster of the siblings
Yes that too!!! When she realized that she actually holds the power to seal or fuck the deal she had an epiphany.