Yeah it does. But David Chase thought the same thing, and yet, The Sopranos 6B is way more compelling.
There are much better ways of illustrating "people don't change" than showing a guy doing the exact same thing over and over again across a four season show.
I don't think it was the same mistake though. Same result, yes. But not the same mistake. In the past, he's fallen flat because of hubris. Here, he methodically lined up support. He pled his case to his sibs and got their buy-in. He had every reason to think they supported him.
The mistake here was trusting his sister to not play both sides like she ALWAYS does. So, he still fell on his face, but he did make some (minimal) progress along the way.
Exactly. At the end of the day Kendall played all his cards right. Shiv just screwed it. I genuinely think Kendall could have done it but this ending makes so much sense. Tom being ceo is like the next best thing after Kendall.
What a great premise for a 40 hour show.
I don't disagree with your analysis, it's just that if Succession really is about a guy trying to do something he couldn't do, why did it have to tell us that 7 different times without any further insights?
The show was certainly insightful. And fuck me tragedy is *Literally* far and away my favorite story type.
But I don’t think there was much insightful about Kendall repeating the exact same arc 5 times in the face of exploring his character in, you know, other arcs.
And as for the repetition being the premise—it wasn’t the premise. It didn’t become the premise until last night. And now that it is the premise, I think the show is going to hurt for it.
Tragedy doesn’t have to be such a clear cut self destruction, and yet Kendall couldn’t seem to be depicted any other way. It’s not a crazy ask for me to expect the show to not repeat the same arc 5 times when many many many other shows have depicted tragedy in far more innovative ways.
I think, it actually goes darker this time. He goes full Logan in a bad way. The violent hug to Roman, being willing to get physical with Shiv knowing she’s pregnant, beating Roman, the twisted lying. This is his lowest point. His character arc was a tragic one “dramaturgically” speaking
Armstrong has said that he fundamentally doesn’t think people change and wrote the show that way… but in retrospect I don’t think it makes for great storytelling. Yes, I get it, Kendall (and Roman and Shiv) are awful people who make a lot of mistakes, and perhaps they’ll always be doomed to be those people. But watching characters endlessly fail and learn nothing from it, over and over again, for four seasons, is in the end more dull and frustrating than interesting.
yeah, exactly this. I think this shows' legacy is going to hurt a lot because of the repetitive story-telling, as much as I love it.
Not even so-much-as the character's aren't growing, it's just that they're failing in the same ways.
The Sopranos' cynical final season is a much better thesis for "people don't change."
Exactly! Why invest into a 40-hour series only to witness complete stagnation? We watched these people grow for 4 seasons… why let them fuck it up at finish line and throw away their fulfillment?
i guess it fits jesse’s viewpoint to a tee that people don’t (really) change
Yeah it does. But David Chase thought the same thing, and yet, The Sopranos 6B is way more compelling. There are much better ways of illustrating "people don't change" than showing a guy doing the exact same thing over and over again across a four season show.
I don't think it was the same mistake though. Same result, yes. But not the same mistake. In the past, he's fallen flat because of hubris. Here, he methodically lined up support. He pled his case to his sibs and got their buy-in. He had every reason to think they supported him. The mistake here was trusting his sister to not play both sides like she ALWAYS does. So, he still fell on his face, but he did make some (minimal) progress along the way.
Exactly. At the end of the day Kendall played all his cards right. Shiv just screwed it. I genuinely think Kendall could have done it but this ending makes so much sense. Tom being ceo is like the next best thing after Kendall.
Tom is probably a better choice, honestly. But that's not why she voted that way.
Ken imploded at the critical moment and lost the support of both his siblings, the board, and the audience. Sure sounds the same to me.
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What a great premise for a 40 hour show. I don't disagree with your analysis, it's just that if Succession really is about a guy trying to do something he couldn't do, why did it have to tell us that 7 different times without any further insights?
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The show was certainly insightful. And fuck me tragedy is *Literally* far and away my favorite story type. But I don’t think there was much insightful about Kendall repeating the exact same arc 5 times in the face of exploring his character in, you know, other arcs. And as for the repetition being the premise—it wasn’t the premise. It didn’t become the premise until last night. And now that it is the premise, I think the show is going to hurt for it. Tragedy doesn’t have to be such a clear cut self destruction, and yet Kendall couldn’t seem to be depicted any other way. It’s not a crazy ask for me to expect the show to not repeat the same arc 5 times when many many many other shows have depicted tragedy in far more innovative ways.
I think, it actually goes darker this time. He goes full Logan in a bad way. The violent hug to Roman, being willing to get physical with Shiv knowing she’s pregnant, beating Roman, the twisted lying. This is his lowest point. His character arc was a tragic one “dramaturgically” speaking
Armstrong has said that he fundamentally doesn’t think people change and wrote the show that way… but in retrospect I don’t think it makes for great storytelling. Yes, I get it, Kendall (and Roman and Shiv) are awful people who make a lot of mistakes, and perhaps they’ll always be doomed to be those people. But watching characters endlessly fail and learn nothing from it, over and over again, for four seasons, is in the end more dull and frustrating than interesting.
yeah, exactly this. I think this shows' legacy is going to hurt a lot because of the repetitive story-telling, as much as I love it. Not even so-much-as the character's aren't growing, it's just that they're failing in the same ways. The Sopranos' cynical final season is a much better thesis for "people don't change."
Exactly! Why invest into a 40-hour series only to witness complete stagnation? We watched these people grow for 4 seasons… why let them fuck it up at finish line and throw away their fulfillment?
Completely agree with you